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Tuesday Pebble Report: 2009 Draft Review, Rockies best draft in NL West?

Before I start, you might ask why I'll take good short season performances as a positive but not discount rough professional starts nearly as much. Mainly, it's because this early in the stage you're still looking far more at a player's potential ceiling rather than their floor, which for everybody is busting completely in the minors. In that sense, a poor short season performance doesn't really impact our view of a player's ceiling, but a standout one, like the season Chris Balcom-Miller is having with Casper, could raise it.

In the first twelve rounds, the Rockies added these players:

 

  • Tyler Matzek - Potential top of the rotation pitcher.
  • Tim Wheeler - Could be starting caliber outfielder on a contending team.
  • Rex Brothers - Late inning left handed reliever, Brian Fuentes/George Sherrill type of potential on fast track.
  • Nolan Arenado - Starting third baseman on a contending team, already showing potential to hit for high average.
  • Ben Paulsen - Polished first base bat.
  • Kent Matthes - Legitimate corner outfield power potential
  • Joe Sanders - Third base, hasn't adjusted to wood yet, but was one of SEC's best hitters.
  • Chris Balcom-Miller - Sinker ball specialist doing very well at Casper, could be upper mid-rotation Aaron Cook type.
  • Erik Stavert - Stavert hasn't played because of lingering elbow soreness, but is another two seam reliant starter.
  • Rob Scahill - Likely will move to relief later, but has mid rotation stuff if he can refine off speed pitches.
  • Wes Musick - Control lefty, could be bottom of the rotation or middle relief. Should eat minor league innings.
  • Charlie Ruiz - Middle relief.
  • Avery Barnes - Speedy centerfielder.
  • Jared Clark - Solid first baseman. 

I feel fairly confident that if scouting directors had the draft to do over, knowing what they do now, Balcom-Miller would likely be a second or early third round pick, meaning I think that this early in the game it looks like the Rockies have six or seven of the top 100 talents from the draft, or twice an equitable share, including Matzek, who might be one of the top two or three talents. Don't take my word for it, Baseball America's Jim Callis on Matzek from a chat just finished:

No, it was pretty much pure signability. There may have been a couple of clubs that didn't want to take a high school pitcher that high, but others thought Matzek was the second- or third-best player in the draft.

How does the Rockies draft compare with the rest of the division? I think Diamondbacks fans can argue that they may have eight or nine top 100 talents with all of their early picks (they definitely got a coup yesterday with Matt Helm), although none quite at the impact level of Matzek and I'm pretty skeptical about several of their early selections. Overall, I think the Rockies had the better draft, but freely admit my bias could be giving me blinders. Otherwise, I don't think we can say anybody else is close at this early stage just because the other teams didn't have as many early picks. I think the Padres probably have three top 100 types in Donavan Tate, Everett Williams and Keyvius Sampson, the Giants three in Wheeler, Joseph and Dominguez (Stoffel's pitching well also, he's borderline) and the Dodgers a couple in Aaron Miller and Garret Gould, with Blake Smith being a borderline talent.

Right now, I'd grade the division this way:

  1. Rockies - Matzek might be the single best player taken (Donavan Tate and Zack Wheeler would be the two you could argue this point on) and then a deep draft after that.
  2. Diamondbacks - no real big impact talent but they added a boatload of needed depth to their system 
  3. Giants - I like Wheeler/Joseph/Dominguez just a smidgen better than the Padres top trio.
  4. Padres - Tate/Williams/Sampson isn't bad, though.
  5. Dodgers - Didn't have a lot of top selections, and it kind of cost them relative to the other teams in the division.

This excites, this will be the first time since 2004 I will have graded the Rockies the best NL West draft initially, and the Rockies added three of their most valuable pieces (Dexter Fowler, Chris Iannetta and Seth Smith) in this year's playoff chasing team in that draft.

Alright, after the jump is some discussion of yesterday's minor league games.

Star-divide

Colorado Springs: L 1-3

The good news is that Esmil Rogers pitched at least somewhat decently for the second straight start, the first time he's put back to back quality starts together since being promoted to AAA. 

Tulsa: W 3-0

Samuel Deduno pitched very well for seven innings and picked up his 12th win of the season. Don't overlook Deduno when thinking about who can compete for a rotation slot next Spring.

Modesto: Off

Asheville: L 4-9

Mike Zuanich (10), Jimmy Cesario (6), and  Kiel Roling (15) hit home runs in the loss.

Tri-City: W 10-3

I always root for minor league free agents like Jeremiah Sammy even if I know they rarely make it all the way to the major leagues. Sammy's been on a major roll in August, with 25 hits in the month so far (including three yesterday) and a .417/.444/.500 slash line. Overall, the middle infielder's been good enough to likely get a trip to Asheville next year, which will give me at least one more year of rooting for the underdog. More background on Sammy, including a pretty straight forward scouting report of strengths and weaknesses from his former coach at Lamar can be found in this article

First round pick Tim Wheeler isn't quite the same underdog, but I root for him too, and he had a solid game with a pair of hits, a pair of walks and three runs scored. Wes Musick had a dominant four inning start, striking out eight and allowing one walk. 

Casper: W 9-1

The Rockies suddenly have a pretty good problem with first basemen at the lower levels, in that there are too many worth giving serious looks. Jared Clark (two for two with a double, home run and three walks yesterday) is clearly at a performance level beyond the Pioneer League, but the emergence of Scott Beerer and Zuanich and the presence of Ben Paulsen at Tri-City doesn't give the Rockies anywhere else to put him at the moment. There's going to have to be some creative house cleaning at upper levels this off season to give all these players opportunity, and a Brad Hawpe style shift to the outfield for one or two might not be out of the question, either. We'll see what happens, but again, you'd rather have too much talent than not enough. 

Edwar Cabrera continued a late season turnaround with four solid innings in the win.

Poll
Now that we know who has signed, what NL West team had the best draft?
Arizona Diamondbacks
4 votes
Colorado Rockies
161 votes
Los Angeles Dodgers
7 votes
San Diego Padres
77 votes
San Francisco Giants
7 votes

256 votes | Poll has closed

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I like it

A lot. And it’s not just the guys who are entering. The entire system has been doing good. I was quite impressed with the performances of some of the players when I was compiling my purp list today. BTW, when can we expect to be doing them.

by mkorpal on Aug 18, 2009 12:16 PM MDT reply actions  

Well, I hope it works a little different this time,

That’s part of what the discussion thread will be about, but it has worked like voting for NCAA polls where points are allotted in reverse order of user submitted ballots of who they are the Rockies thirty best prospects.

by Rox Girl on Aug 18, 2009 12:42 PM MDT up reply actions  

And of course it will be flooded with folks who somehow consider guys like Colonel and Matt Miller ‘prospects’ because they’re in AAA.

by LawrenceDavis on Aug 18, 2009 2:24 PM MDT up reply actions  

AKA

People who consider Woody Paige’s word gospel.

by bballrox4717 on Aug 18, 2009 2:25 PM MDT up reply actions  

That's why a discussion thread would be good

Some people will vote for whomever they vote for no matter what, but hopefully we can get a good discussion going. Folks like Rox Girl can contribute the scouting angle so we have more than stats to go on.

Hopefully we can put a little context on the stats, as well. E.g., Miller, McCoy and Murton might be remembered from their hot starts, but they are now hitting about as well as Mark Bellhorn, and it’s not like Bellhorn is having a career year. Bellhorn’s MLE for the season is pretty close to his career MLB #’s of .330 OBP/ .400 SLG . Those 3 are not young either (26,28, and 27 this year), so how good a prospect does that make them?

Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!

by FooMan on Aug 18, 2009 2:37 PM MDT up reply actions  

Well, Murton

doesn’t even qualify as a prospect anymore. Hasn’t since 2005 or 2006.

"If we never try, we shall never succeed." - Abraham Lincoln

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!

by Russ Oates on Aug 18, 2009 8:36 PM MDT up reply actions  

I know that there are Sign On San Diego users coming to...

“fudge a poll” so I want to welcome all of you guys as Purple Row obviously does better the more people that come and visit. Thanks for helping us bump our ad rates.

Now, that said, while I can see a feasible argument for the Padres having the best draft if you think Tate is the best overall player, those of you that have come and voted for the Dodgers really need to explain your logic, here. That’s uhm, a far fetched notion to say the least.

by Rox Girl on Aug 18, 2009 1:29 PM MDT reply actions  

That explains a lot.

I was wondering how many people were taking drugs in order to believe that the Padres had the best draft.

"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia

by DbacksSkins on Aug 18, 2009 1:56 PM MDT up reply actions  

It's not so far fetched...

In terms of upside, it’s hard to beat Tate/Williams/Sampson. I don’t think any trio of 2009 draftees from the other four teams could match the combined ceiling. That said, all three have a pretty significant bust risk, the Padres have taken a high risk, high reward approach to the draft, and while it’s not unlikely that one of these guys lives up to their potential, it’s highly unlikely that all three do.

by Rox Girl on Aug 18, 2009 2:35 PM MDT up reply actions  

I voted San Diego fwiw

So there’s at least one legit vote in there!

by biondino on Aug 19, 2009 3:25 AM MDT up reply actions  

I love the SignOnSanDiego fora!

Always a lively debate about where the Chargers will be moving.

by Since1993 on Aug 18, 2009 4:12 PM MDT up reply actions  

But hey,

we don’t “know the names of who the Padres drafted, let alone their talent level.” Yes, because, and this is news to me, we all have lives outside of here.

"If we never try, we shall never succeed." - Abraham Lincoln

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!

by Russ Oates on Aug 18, 2009 8:50 PM MDT up reply actions  

I'm still confused

as to why the Rockies have decided to move Brothers to relief so quickly. Shouldn’t they at least see if he can cut it as a starter first?

by Tom (RFTN) on Aug 18, 2009 1:34 PM MDT reply actions  

It's a case of specific rather than relative value

In general, starters are more valuable than relievers, but the Rockies seem to think they can get a quick and near certain MLB return from him in relief. As a starter, his most likely value to the Rockies would be in trade while still a prospect given our starting depth, as a reliever, he’s likely to reach the MLB quickly and have real value to the club and as a sought after commodity. Their decision makes some sense given his ability to move quickly through the system.

by Rox Girl on Aug 18, 2009 1:45 PM MDT up reply actions  

So I was thinking this morning about the starting rotation next spring

1. Jimenez
2. Cook
3. Francis
4. De la Rosa
5. Hynick

Other ideas?

"If you're going to be stupid, you'd better be tough."

by Rawktober on Aug 18, 2009 2:13 PM MDT reply actions  

Is Francis

even pitching yet?

"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia

by DbacksSkins on Aug 18, 2009 2:18 PM MDT up reply actions  

No. And I wouldn’t expect him back until the middle of next year, if ever again.

I also think you’re probably a little too high on Hynick.

by LawrenceDavis on Aug 18, 2009 2:34 PM MDT up reply actions  

2010 Spring Rotation

1. Jimenez
2. Cook
3. Francis
4. Morales / Marquis (depends on how much money he wants)
5. Hynick / Hammel (I prefer Hammel over Hynick, because I think Hynick needs a little more time to develop)

by lizardlad01 on Aug 18, 2009 2:25 PM MDT up reply actions  

Jhoulys Chacin can’t believe you’re forgetting about him just because he had one bad outing.

Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.

by Franchise26 on Aug 18, 2009 2:26 PM MDT up reply actions  

I don't want to rush him..

Jumping from AA to the majors is a big leap and I rather be safe than sorry in development of good pitchers.

Chacin get back to AAA!

by lizardlad01 on Aug 18, 2009 2:28 PM MDT up reply actions  

Jumping from AA to the majors is a big leap?

Justin Upton, Mark Reynolds, Clay Zavada and Gerardo Parra beg to differ….

"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia

by DbacksSkins on Aug 18, 2009 2:30 PM MDT up reply actions  

along with Jeff Francis, Troy Tulowitzki

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by Andrew Martin on Aug 18, 2009 2:31 PM MDT up reply actions  

+1

"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia

by DbacksSkins on Aug 18, 2009 2:32 PM MDT up reply actions  

Although,

Upton had some growing pains in 07 and 08, so that may not be much of an example.

"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia

by DbacksSkins on Aug 18, 2009 2:33 PM MDT up reply actions  

All of these examples are position players

Rafael Furcal made the leap from Single A. It might be a little bit different for a pitcher to get battered without hurting his overall confidence.

by Prospector on Aug 18, 2009 2:45 PM MDT up reply actions  

Jeff Francis?

Clay Zavada? ERA+ of 158 this year?

"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia

by DbacksSkins on Aug 18, 2009 2:47 PM MDT up reply actions  

Francis originally came up as a 2B

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by Andrew Martin on Aug 18, 2009 2:48 PM MDT up reply actions  

Really?

Didn’t know that.

"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia

by DbacksSkins on Aug 18, 2009 2:49 PM MDT up reply actions  

No.

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Seth Smith Status: Part of a Good Problem
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by Andrew Martin on Aug 18, 2009 2:49 PM MDT up reply actions  

Ok

"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia

by DbacksSkins on Aug 18, 2009 2:50 PM MDT up reply actions  

it was just meant to be a joke on the position player comment

wasn’t Parra a pitcher or something…..?

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by Andrew Martin on Aug 18, 2009 2:51 PM MDT up reply actions  

Signed as an OF

at the age of 18.

"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia

by DbacksSkins on Aug 18, 2009 2:56 PM MDT up reply actions  

oh

wasn’t webb a LF or something….?

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by Andrew Martin on Aug 18, 2009 3:18 PM MDT up reply actions  

He moved from catcher

He kept bouncing his throws, and then someone had an idea.

Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!

by FooMan on Aug 18, 2009 3:21 PM MDT up reply actions  

CF.

Then someone realized that he didn’t really have the range or body type.

"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia

by DbacksSkins on Aug 18, 2009 3:33 PM MDT up reply actions  

I'm at work, lay off

Forgive me the inaccuracies of listed D-back personnel.

by Prospector on Aug 18, 2009 4:21 PM MDT up reply actions  

Hynick-Morales?

What in the world has Hynick done to be considered a spot in the rotation. Cmon. Hes a bull-pen guy, mop up at best. Morales is a bull-pen guy too, hes get over exposed too easy. He is a situational lefty. Neither throw enuf strikes to be starters.

by 61maris on Aug 18, 2009 6:17 PM MDT up reply actions  

Hynick threw a perfect game

Which may be a one-off/small sample size but it’ll stick in people’s heads more than, say a slightly better tRA or whatever.

by biondino on Aug 19, 2009 3:27 AM MDT up reply actions  

There is a fanpost about this

http://www.purplerow.com/2009/8/18/993336/your-2010-rockies

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by Andrew Martin on Aug 18, 2009 2:30 PM MDT up reply actions  

Really? I thought for sure it would be something like

1. Matzek
2. Matzek
3. Cook (prototypical #3)
4. Matzek
5. Matzek

The Rockies need some oldschool purple/white striped high socks. The team’s problem is it’s lack of swagger. I feel strongly that these socks will provide the swagger necessary to tap the potential that are the Rockies.

by Resolution on Aug 18, 2009 2:32 PM MDT up reply actions  

Ahh, this takes me back

to the days when we were planning on cloning Brandon Webb and making a rotation of all Webbies.

I just made myself sad. :-(

"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia

by DbacksSkins on Aug 18, 2009 2:37 PM MDT up reply actions  

Never before.

That’s part of the reason why he’s been one of the top pitchers over the past few seasons. He’d never suffered any significant injuries.

Well, that, and the sink on his fastball.

"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia

by DbacksSkins on Aug 18, 2009 2:40 PM MDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I'd never heard about injury concerns, either

He was pretty much one of the guys people drooled over. Hard nasty sinking fastball and a sturdy frame.

Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!

by FooMan on Aug 18, 2009 2:41 PM MDT up reply actions  

Yeah....

it’s pretty tough to find a guy who throws 94 with that much movement.

"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia

by DbacksSkins on Aug 18, 2009 2:44 PM MDT up reply actions  

Shoulda done it

in the very least you guys could have had a good ligament/any other organ bank for Webb. They could have also just sold off organs. I think a couple of kidneys and a liver equals a second round signing bonus.

The Rockies need some oldschool purple/white striped high socks. The team’s problem is it’s lack of swagger. I feel strongly that these socks will provide the swagger necessary to tap the potential that are the Rockies.

by Resolution on Aug 18, 2009 2:40 PM MDT up reply actions  

Hmmm.....

does Dr. James Andrews do labrum transplants?

"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia

by DbacksSkins on Aug 18, 2009 2:41 PM MDT up reply actions  

He does

but it’ll cost you about two spleens and backstage passes to a concert of his choosing.

The Rockies need some oldschool purple/white striped high socks. The team’s problem is it’s lack of swagger. I feel strongly that these socks will provide the swagger necessary to tap the potential that are the Rockies.

by Resolution on Aug 18, 2009 2:44 PM MDT up reply actions  

Hmmm...

time for Josh Byrnes to get the American Express black card.

"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia

by DbacksSkins on Aug 18, 2009 2:46 PM MDT up reply actions  

Francis isn't coming back at the beginning of next year, he needs to rehab, and we can't expect much from him in 2010 either

A lot of people also consider Morales a rotation candidate for next year, though I’m sided to believe he’s our future closer. There are two open spots next year when you think about it: Cook, Jimenez, and DLR are obvious locks, Marquis isn’t likely to return next year, and people see Hammel as a long man, or just don’t have confidence with him in the rotation. I believe the former.

Personally, my rotation next year is : 1) Jimenez 2) Cook 3) DLR 4) Rogers 5) Hynick. I agree with lizardlad01, Chacin is only 21, and I would like for him to really settle with his pitches and create a real identity with himself. I also would like to see the Rockies save service time with him (call him up in June-July to keep him in CO longer, avoid Super 2). This makes Hammel and Chacin our depth, and you can bet that O’Dowd will make more Fogg/Eaton signings to give us even more depth in Triple A.

by bballrox4717 on Aug 18, 2009 2:33 PM MDT up reply actions  

Why wouldn't Marquis be back?

He has stated that he loves working with Apodaca and loves being here. Is he too expensive? If Atkins gets released this winter, that will be 7 MM coming off the books. I wouldn’t be too quick to dismiss Marquis.

by Prospector on Aug 18, 2009 2:49 PM MDT up reply actions  

For starters, I could see the argument for Marquis

We’re not going to get anything for him if we let him go (the Rockies won’t offer him arb), he loves it here, and he’s been the Rockies stopper and most consistent start this year. Yeah, I get it, he’s good. However, there’s an argument for not signing him. For starters, his success may be based off the fact that he is in his contract year, and Marquis probably knows that he’s not getting a repeat of his salary this year. Because of his contract year success, we might see regression, and an overpaying for him. If we can sign him to a contract like Randy Wolf (1 year deal), then go for it, but an All Star pitcher who’s pitching in CO (He can use that in an argument for getting more money), is going to get a stupid contract from a team like the Mets, who can outbid us in every possible way (Especially because Marquis is from NY). Trying to bid for Marquis is not worth it because we need to get the young pitching is CO soon, and because we could use the money saved from not signing Marquis to get another Matzek, or to resign a central player to the team such as Iannetta, Stewart, Fowler, Street, etc.

by bballrox4717 on Aug 18, 2009 3:00 PM MDT up reply actions  

if your only goign to offer him a 1 year contract why not offer him arb?

that way if he does leave you get something for him. if he accepts arb then its a 1 year deal

by purplesocks on Aug 18, 2009 3:27 PM MDT up reply actions  

Marquis would get 10+ mill in arb

When I compared a future deal to Randy Wolf, it’s cheap. Wolf signed for a year, 5 mill. I would sign Marquis for that and nothing more.

by bballrox4717 on Aug 18, 2009 4:14 PM MDT up reply actions  

It's been discussed around here a lot

And whether he’s too expensive is pretty much the crux of it. Atkins is coming off the books, but there are a lot of built-in raises coming as well, so we’d need to sit down and hash all those out before seeing if that savings just goes to paying the raises or not. Then, it’s hard to see the Rockies offering a multi-yr deal with all the pitching in the pipeline.

So it comes to what Marquis would be worth on the market, and whether he’d get that multi-yr deal. Folks like Redhawk think the market will be so depressed that he’ll be available for much less than his current year’s salary ($10M). Others are not so sure, myself included. It’s true that some teams will tighten their belts, but it’s also true that it’s a less than stellar market for starting pitchers. The best pitchers who will be available have injury issues (e.g., John Lackey, Ervin Santana, Tim Hudson if the Braves don’t pick up his option, Rich Harden). The best healthy pitchers are Jarrod Washburn, Doug Davis, and Marquis – in other words, it’s slim pickings. I think this scarcity will lead to a multi-yr offer for Marquis, assuming he finishes the year healthy (knock on wood).

I guess another possibilityi would be the Rockies offering Marquis arbitration in hopes of getting compensatory draft picks, then Marquis accepting if the market seems tight. He’s probably win more than $10 million in arb, though, so the Rockies might not risk it. That would depend on the 2010 budget again.

Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!

by FooMan on Aug 18, 2009 3:02 PM MDT up reply actions  

I like the idea..

about offer arbirtration to Marquis and getting draft picks if he doesn’t sign up. :)

by lizardlad01 on Aug 18, 2009 3:07 PM MDT up reply actions  

But for real

we should sign Rich Harden

The Rockies need some oldschool purple/white striped high socks. The team’s problem is it’s lack of swagger. I feel strongly that these socks will provide the swagger necessary to tap the potential that are the Rockies.

by Resolution on Aug 18, 2009 2:35 PM MDT up reply actions  

Now that I think about it

Jimenez
Cook
Morales
Hammel
JDLR

If Hammel keeps his walk rate down next season and gets like, you know, normal luck numbers at home, he’ll be a great asset.

Not sure if Morales is a #3 but I’d split him and JDLR up…

The Rockies need some oldschool purple/white striped high socks. The team’s problem is it’s lack of swagger. I feel strongly that these socks will provide the swagger necessary to tap the potential that are the Rockies.

by Resolution on Aug 18, 2009 2:37 PM MDT up reply actions  

If Hammel is starting over Chacin, then something terrible happened.

by LawrenceDavis on Aug 18, 2009 2:49 PM MDT up reply actions  

like Chacin needs a bit longer in 2010 to be MLB ready?

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by Andrew Martin on Aug 18, 2009 2:50 PM MDT up reply actions  

Except he doesn’t really need seasoning. He pitched very well in Tulsa this season and, aside from one poor start, has done well in the big leagues. He’ll probably get another month and a half of seasoning and might even get some postseason experience.

Hammel, on the other hand, has shown that he’s capable of some good starts, but more often than not will turn in some duds.

Chacin could probably equal Hammel’s performance this year right now. Another couple of months plus spring training and there’s very little reason to think that he won’t surpass him next year.

by LawrenceDavis on Aug 18, 2009 3:12 PM MDT up reply actions  

like 60% of Hammel's starts have been good

100% of Chacin’s starts have been very not good.

I know, sample size, but if he’s not pitching out of the pen, I don’t want to rock the boat too badly.

This is assuming our top 5 stay healthy. I don’t want to rush Chacin if we don’t have to. I feel we have already, and now we’ve sent him down. He was doing fine from the pen.

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by Andrew Martin on Aug 18, 2009 3:21 PM MDT up reply actions  

Hammel has a lot longer list of bad starts than you’re giving him credit for. Remember, Tampa gave up on him.

by LawrenceDavis on Aug 18, 2009 3:34 PM MDT up reply actions  

that statement is very misleading

Because remember, the Houston Astros had given up on Johan Santana.

they had a 6 man rotation at that point, and they were comfortable with their bullpen depth. So yeah, we got the back end of their rotation, but we had a hole, they had depth.

This isn’t like DLR, who had bounced around like 3 teams by the time we acquired him.

I also fail to see what Tampa’s dealings with Hammel have to do at all with the Colorado Rockies current rotation and Jhoulys Chacin

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by Andrew Martin on Aug 18, 2009 3:36 PM MDT up reply actions  

Now who is misleading?

They gave up on Hammel because he exhausted every major league opportunity, not because he was 21 and sitting in their minor league system.

The reason his time in Tampa is relevant is because his time in Tampa counts. The poster I responded to said he had 60 percent good starts. Well, sure, this year. But he’s had a lot of other bad appearances than just this year.

There’s a famous line from Pulp Fiction that applies to people’s reactions about Hammel. HIs success seems, to me, to be far more likely a fluke than his failures. I think he’s a much bigger liability in the rotation than others do.

Hammel’s situation is vastly different from Santana’s.

by LawrenceDavis on Aug 18, 2009 3:46 PM MDT up reply actions  

What's being overlooked here

is that what Hammel is doing this year, he’s never done in any year in Tampa.

If Hammel keeps his walk rate down. He’s a great #4 for next year.

Also, we have no idea that Chacin pitched well in the big leagues. He made one terrible start which we can’t take anything away from and then he had what? 10 innings from the bullpen?

I’m all for him pitching for us next year and the truth is, Hammel, Morales, and JDLR are all complete question marks.

The Rockies need some oldschool purple/white striped high socks. The team’s problem is it’s lack of swagger. I feel strongly that these socks will provide the swagger necessary to tap the potential that are the Rockies.

by Resolution on Aug 18, 2009 5:21 PM MDT up reply actions  

All this draft business

intrigued me into looking through the Archives here at Purple Row. Post like this one, this one and this one are really interesting in hindsight now that these guys are in the big leagues. Might I suggest a feature that looks back at some of the post of yesteryear? A Retro Row, if you will?

President of the Don Draper fan club.

by jcd823 on Aug 18, 2009 2:13 PM MDT reply actions  

theoldgrizzlybear does a rockies retro column already

I’m sure that fits in

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Aug 18, 2009 3:19 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

Oh yeah....

Its been a while since I’ve seen that.

President of the Don Draper fan club.

by jcd823 on Aug 18, 2009 4:21 PM MDT up reply actions  

Actually,

I think it’s something I want to take up. Historian and all. . . .

"If we never try, we shall never succeed." - Abraham Lincoln

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!

by Russ Oates on Aug 18, 2009 8:41 PM MDT up reply actions  

yeah

Row retro and rockies retro could have a clear enough dichotemy

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Aug 19, 2009 1:40 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

91% homegrown

I guess this is an appropriate thread to note how home-grown the team is. 90.9% of the non-pitcher PA’s on the team have been by players who have only played MLB ball for the Rockies at the time they accumulated their Rockies PA’s. If you wanted to add CarGon and Murton (since they were acquired in trades for home-grown players), the total goes up to 96%.

The only two free agents are Torrealba and Paul Phillips.

That’s remarkable.

Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!

by FooMan on Aug 18, 2009 3:20 PM MDT reply actions  

Quintanilla was acquired from Oakland along with Eric Byrnes

for Joe Kennedy and Jay Witasick

Mike McCoy Status: BETTER BE A SEPT CALLUP
Seth Smith Status: Part of a Good Problem
Chris Iannetta Status: OH MY GOD GET SOME HITS YOU'RE MAKING ME LOOK LIKE AN ASS

Check out the most recent MLB Transactions on MLB Daily Dish

by Andrew Martin on Aug 18, 2009 3:26 PM MDT up reply actions  

otherwise good observation

Mike McCoy Status: BETTER BE A SEPT CALLUP
Seth Smith Status: Part of a Good Problem
Chris Iannetta Status: OH MY GOD GET SOME HITS YOU'RE MAKING ME LOOK LIKE AN ASS

Check out the most recent MLB Transactions on MLB Daily Dish

by Andrew Martin on Aug 18, 2009 3:29 PM MDT up reply actions  

Right

But I go by the old Bill James method of credit. If an org trades for a minor leaguer, they get the credit for bringing him to the majors, because they valued him enough to give up something for him when he was a minor leaguer.

Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!

by FooMan on Aug 18, 2009 3:31 PM MDT up reply actions  

so What, it goes down from 90.9% to 90.6%?

Still, point

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Aug 18, 2009 3:30 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

Interesting tidbit

http://www.denverpost.com/rockies/ci_13152161

CarGo leading off, Dex batting 2nd.

Very interesting.

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Aug 18, 2009 3:35 PM MDT reply actions  

interesting indeed

I think they’re reading a lot of Redhawk’s posts….

Mike McCoy Status: BETTER BE A SEPT CALLUP
Seth Smith Status: Part of a Good Problem
Chris Iannetta Status: OH MY GOD GET SOME HITS YOU'RE MAKING ME LOOK LIKE AN ASS

Check out the most recent MLB Transactions on MLB Daily Dish

by Andrew Martin on Aug 18, 2009 3:36 PM MDT up reply actions  

That must be why they just DFA'd Atty and Marquis

After all, neither will be here next year, so why not just clear space to add Matzek to the 40 man now?

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Aug 18, 2009 3:37 PM MDT up reply actions  

my point was I think that Redhawk posted those 2 as 1-2 in a lineup suggestion somewhere

Mike McCoy Status: BETTER BE A SEPT CALLUP
Seth Smith Status: Part of a Good Problem
Chris Iannetta Status: OH MY GOD GET SOME HITS YOU'RE MAKING ME LOOK LIKE AN ASS

Check out the most recent MLB Transactions on MLB Daily Dish

by Andrew Martin on Aug 18, 2009 3:40 PM MDT up reply actions  

Yes I did

and again….I’m a visionary!

(or you throw enough crap out…eventually something will be correct.)

by Redhawk on Aug 18, 2009 10:58 PM MDT up reply actions  

I am no baseball expert...at all

So I am curious….come September 1st, which guys can I expect to see called up to the big league club? Will it only be guys on the 40 man roster?

by Cargo's Ball Sack5 on Aug 18, 2009 4:05 PM MDT reply actions  

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