Your 2010 Rockies
by RoxandRoll on Aug 18, 2009 8:10 AM MDT
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Now that we have signed an integral part of the 2012 rotation, I was hoping to look shorter term with a look at our 2010 roster. I hope to have some fun with this. IMO, the Rox will probably lose Marquis to free agency with my guess of him going home to NYC with the Mets. I do think there is a decent chance that the Rox may be able to resign DeLaRosa to a 2-3 year deal at $6-$7 mil per. Francis and Chacin would battle for the vacated rotation spot. In the bullpen, most have said the Rox will not exercise the option on Bettancourt (huge mistake). I would assume Beimel is probably toast but we do have Bucholz and Corpas coming back from injury. I think Atkins gets non tendered giving our Russell Branyan clone Ian Stewart the full time 3B gig. Torreabla probably gone to free agency so either Phillips or Belorin becomes the backup catcher. Spilly likely traded as well because he will make too much for a 5th outfielder - maybe Murton takes that role. Finally, they are not going to pay Q a whole lot so if he wants a bump he is probably gone as well - not shedding any tears there.
Anybody else have some thoughts - my concern right now is that we go into 2010 without both Marquis and DLR and the starting pitching takes a huge step backwards.
Eat. Drink. Be Merry. But the above FanPost does not necessarily reflect the attitudes, opinions, or views of Purple Row's staff (unless, of course, it's written by the staff [and even then, it still might not]).
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De La Rosa isn't a free agent
so, I’m not too worried about losing him.
The rotation, as I see it, will set up a little like this
Guaranteed a spot are Jimenez, Cook, and DLR
For the last two spots, you will have a spring training battle of Hammel, Chacin, Rodgers, Hynick, Friedrick, Smith, Reynolds, and anyone who may be brought in. Obviously, Smith and Reynolds would need to steal the show to make it.
It's somewhat a distant possibility
So, I generally don’t count him. He has a huge uphill battle to get back into the majors.
I think we'll "see" both
Though Buch is more likely to make a contribution. TJ guys don’t always come back after a year, but a year seems pretty common. Often, they can even contribute despite it seeming to take a half year or so to get back to where they were. Whereas we should see Francis, but the chances of him actually being effective are a lot lower.
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
This is correct
I should have said “if we see Francis,and if Bucky could be effective in his 1/2 a season it will be a bonus”
Matt Daley
And matt Daley
by Kittiesroxursox on Aug 21, 2009 7:16 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
MATT DALEY IS NOT A STARTER!
Admitedly, you did say this before we spelled this out for you in the game-thread…
I think you missed a few
back up catcher: Bellorin would be in the mix, but also is McKenry who looks about ready though he might start the year at AAA. There is usually a pack of traveling back up catchers that move around from team to team each year. The Rockies will have several candidates due to having an actual open spot.
I’d expect EY2 to be at least a bench role.
Atkins won’t be back as I don’t think the Rockies will offer him arbitration
Spilly will be gone I would assume, opening a bench spot for Murton
The Rockies will either bring back Q or bring in some one outside to be a bench back up middle infielder (read Shortstop)
Rotation is going to be interesting. I think along the lines of mkorpal that 3 are set in Jimenez, Cook, and DLR. The other 2 spots do have a list of players, but all are young and unproven besides Hammel and Morales that mkorpal left out. So I wouldn’t be surprised if the Rockies didn’t bring in another outside experienced pitcher that other clubs have given up on that is actually a good pitcher, ala Lopez in 07 and Marquis in 09. Personally, I hope that player is Marquis, and he could be back (I wouldn’t put money on it, but it could happen)
Bullpen could be a mess. Biemel would be a target for the lefty role. I hope Betencourt is looked at to be re-signed as well. I do hope Fogg comes back as the long man (a role that I think is underestimated in it’s importance). I hope the Rockies pick up the option on Street, or give him a new contract. If the the Rockies lose, Street, Betencourt, and Biemel, I think the Rockies will have a terrible pen and no chance to win anything.
does street have an option?
on Cot’s contracts page it looks like he has 1 year left of arb. i dont see anything about an option. theres no way the rockies let street go before he hits FA
Given the other options, I hope so
But I think we’d have to sit down and line up all the contracts…which isn’t something I really want to do at this point given that the focus is on the 2009 playoff run. The arb award for a player entering his 6th year coming off a lights out closer season could be a lot. Street (making $4.5M in his 5th yr) will likely be somewhere between Fuentes (came off a $3.5M salary, asked for 6.5, lost and got 5.05) and Rodriguez (came off a $7M salary, asked for 12, got 10). I’d guess $7M-ish, could go to $8M (Jenks is at $5.6M in his 1st year of arb, Valverde has same service time as Street and is at $8M this year).
It’s a lot for 65-70 innings, but they don’t have a lot of alternatives.
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
Street has another arbitration year.
He’ll be back. Buchholz will be fresh off TJ. Beimel’s a decent target for a new contract depending on how well he performs.
If I had to make a prediction, I think the 2010 Rockies bullpen probably looks like this:
Street
Beimel
Buchholz
Corpas
Daley
And then two out of a group that includes Weathers, Morales, Deduno, and Escalona. That’s not bad provided Buchholz and Weathers are ready to roll.
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
I'm rooting for Weathers and Escalona...
and I’m hoping that Morales finds/pitches his way into the starting rotation.
Just an average guy with exceptional hair. Nothing more, nothing less.
by Bryan Kilpatrick on Aug 18, 2009 10:09 AM MDT up reply actions
There will likely be the usual collection of journeymen, too
So there will probably be 1 or 2 mystery men who make the opening day bullpen.
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
I'm a little disappointed with..
Casey Weathers blog, it hasn’t been updated since Mothers day! C’mon man!!
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Bucholtz won't be back till the 2nd half of the season
so of the 7 bullpen spots, there looks to be only 3 we can say is coming back right now to start the season, and that is Street (assuming he’s offered arbitration) Corpas and Daley. The rest of the staff are either free agents, or minor leaguers.
Street will be offered arbitration.
The only players who don’t get tendered are players that suck. Like Willy Taveras. Street will be back, so quit worrying.
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
by Franchise26 on Aug 18, 2009 10:36 AM MDT up reply actions
Rockies have been reluctant to pay top money for closers
in the past, so there are grounds for concern.
None of those closers were cost-controlled by the arbitration process.
Your concern is unfounded.
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
by Franchise26 on Aug 18, 2009 10:56 AM MDT up reply actions
thanks for the decree your highness
you know, if you can’t reply nicely, I’d rather you not address me directly.
I find it amazing how poorly you handle being told that you're wrong.
I guess I can try not to do it anymore, but whatever.
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
by Franchise26 on Aug 18, 2009 11:14 AM MDT up reply actions
I have a problem being told I'm wrong
when it’s just a matter of opinion. I also have a problem in how you present your opinion, as gospel true fact, and thus everyone is wrong, and shouldn’t even share their opinion.
If you want to discuss the WHY you think your position is superior, then I have no problem with that. But to just decree “I told you that you’re wrong” yeah, I have a problem with that. Funny huh.
We don't really have a good way of doing this
“I have an opinion that Brad Hawpe is the best defensive RF in baseball”
I want to say “Well, you’re wrong” and then cite metrics, but then the response is inevitably “It’s my opinion!” to which the followup should be “well your opinion is retarded” and then they say “well it’s what I think, alright” and then I respond “well then you’re retarded by extension” and it’s a big messy slapfight and all ugly and people cry and then get mod warnings and Rox Girl gets like 5 emails about how big of a butthead the other guy is and she gets sick of being the babysitter and Russ just keeps on not caring about forum drama and the other mods just start drinking again, ….
uh… I kind of lost track where I was going with this. Oh, right
The point is we need a polite way to express “well, that may be your opinion, but allow me to present mine. [evidence]. So while that may be your opinion, it seems as if it is based on faulty reasoning and/or bad facts, and I’d encourage you to reevaluate your position”
In fact, you two should try this. I would find it hilarious if you both modeled your posts like the above paragraphs while debating.
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by Andrew Martin on Aug 18, 2009 11:41 AM MDT up reply actions
Hmm, I guess I don't remember enough of franchise26's posts
But I don’t remember him being rude.
I know from my own experience, though, that it’s easy to lose tone and nuance in internet posts, esp. if you’re trying to sneak them in quickly while doing other things.
I don’t see anything in the posts above, but maybe there’s a history there.
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
oh my thing was just a joke
nobody called anybody retarded
But franchise has a very confrontational style of posting, and some posters tend to react as if it was meant to be a personal attack.
Franchise26 and Redhawk both tend to be very good posters coming from seemingly different sides on everything. But their styles of posting make it look like a giant argument every time, rather than a discussion.
At least that’s how I’ve read them.
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by Andrew Martin on Aug 18, 2009 12:12 PM MDT up reply actions
I just read your sig
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BWHAAHAHAHA!
well I can argue OBP all day long
but if he doesn’t start hitting the ball, his OBP will eventually be like .110, just his walks
I mean come ON man
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by Andrew Martin on Aug 18, 2009 12:43 PM MDT up reply actions
I've suspected the drinking problem for sometime now
Russ just keeps on not caring about forum drama and the other mods just start drinking again, ….RMN
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Brian Fuentes would like a word about that
by bballrox4717 on Aug 18, 2009 11:09 AM MDT up reply actions
Would he?
Fuentes and Street are two totally different situations. Fuentes was not arb-eligible this winter. Street will be.
Here’s a list of players who were arbitration eligible and not offered contracts by their teams last winter. Other than Saito, who was injured, that’s not a very inspiring list of players, is it?
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
by Franchise26 on Aug 18, 2009 11:14 AM MDT up reply actions
I'm talking before we let him go to free agency
and we had a multiple All star closer in our hands. We got arbitration done with Fuentes back in 2006 and 2007, right? There’s no reason why Street will get arb done this Winter, though part of me really wants to see what we could get for him.
by bballrox4717 on Aug 18, 2009 11:16 AM MDT up reply actions
Fuentes
The Rox signed him through his first two arbitration years at $5.5 million – he made $3.5 million in ’07. In arbitration before ’08, the Rox offered $5.05 million. Fuentes countered with $6.5 million. The Rockies won.
The only way the Rox don’t go to arbitration with Street is if they sign him to a long-term deal.
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
by Franchise26 on Aug 18, 2009 11:20 AM MDT up reply actions
OK
I’m just saying there’s not a shot in hell that Street isn’t a Rockie this year unless we trade him.
by bballrox4717 on Aug 18, 2009 11:22 AM MDT up reply actions
And I'm in 100% agreement with you.
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
by Franchise26 on Aug 18, 2009 11:23 AM MDT up reply actions
I think there's a small chance they could trade him
depending on what’s avail, though the lack of enticing arms in the org would seem to make this unlikely.
I think Street will get more than Fuentes in arb. He’s starting higher (coming off a $4.5M salary vs. Fuentes at $3.5), and is having a better year. Still, it is just 1 yr rather than a long-term deal.
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
he's easily a top-5 closer this season
We’d have to get bowled over (relative to his value)
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by Andrew Martin on Aug 18, 2009 11:44 AM MDT up reply actions
There probably isn't one
Since due to need, the Rockies would likely need another closer to take his place. I think there’d need to be a series of deals for something like this to happen, as it’s hard to see anyone trading a younger closer-ready type for Street, and I don’t see the team gambling on trading for someone and promoting them, when the backups (Morales? Corpas?) are shaky.
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
yeah this
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by Andrew Martin on Aug 18, 2009 12:17 PM MDT up reply actions
But Did Fuentes get top contract?
If you remember after 07 Corpas was to be the closer of the future. The Rockies went to arbitration that year pointing out that Fuentes was just a set up man, and was able to shave millions off the the judgement.
After 03 Jimenez wasn’t re-signed as he was going to be too expensive
After 00 Dave Veres was sent away with out re-signing.
If Street’s arb value is at 8 million a year or higher, I don’t think it’s such a slam dunk deal he comes back. I’m not sure it’s a slam dunk return if he’s at 6 million (though the percentage goes up as the amount goes down of course)
Do you all think the Rockies have an extra 9 million laying around for a closer, a pitcher that usually only gives a team 60-75 innings a year?
Apples and oranges
Veres was traded away as part of the Darryl Kile trade.
Jimenez was not arb-eligible and became a free agent. And the Rockies were more than happy to let him go because he was horrible in 03.
It is plain wrong to use those instances, which are nothing alike and nothing like Street’s contract situation, as evidence that the Rockies won’t bring Street back if he’s too expensive.
How about we instead look at some closers who entered arbitration in recent years?
Jose Valverde in 2008, after leading the league in saves in 2007, asked for $6.2 million from the Astros. He lost, and was awarded $4.7 million.
Jonathan Papelbon avoided arbitration this year by signing for $6.25 million. Bobby Jenks avoided arbitration by signing for $5.6 million.
Now, based on this evidence, how much do you think Street’s worth? And do you really believe that’s cost-prohibitive to this organization, based on what they were willing to pay Fuentes and their recent willingness to loosen the purse strings a tad?
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
by Franchise26 on Aug 18, 2009 11:42 AM MDT up reply actions
Don't your examples support the likelihood of Street getting $7M or more?
Papelbon and Jenks were in their 1st yr of arb. Valverde lost, but was in his 2nd yr of arb, so he made slightly more in his 2nd arb yr than Street did in his. Valverde heading into 2009 seems more analogous to where Street is heading into 2010. I wonder if he got as far as submitting numbers for arb.
I think they will likely keep Street because of the lack of a decent backup option (much riskier to trade for a cheaper option if the fallback plan is say, Morales, Daley and Corpas).
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
You forgot K-rod at 10 million
so I’d say Street would be somewhere around 7million (give a range 6-7.5). If Street could be signed for 5 million I think that’s in the Rockies range. 8 and I think it’s too high. So somewhere between 5 and 8 would be their budget limit, and if Street is at 7 million, then yes, that might be a little too much for the Rockies.
Which is why I don’t think it’s 100% deal he will come back. Do I think Street is a big key and almost needs to come back? yes, I do. Do I think the Rockies have an extra million laying around to make this happen? Yeah, but not muck more then that.
I think k-rod tells us Street won't get $10 million
Since he had the superior career and was at a higher rate ($7M) the previous season.
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
K-Rod/Valverde
Valverde avoided arbitration with an $8 million dollar deal. K-Rod signed for $7 million before his arb award of $10 million.
But here’s a point I want to make here. You’d probably rather have Papelbon and Jenks than Valverde… yet Valverde makes more. So it’s not quite right to look at the contracts of every closer in baseball, slot Street in between the last guy he’s better than and the first guy he’s worse than, and figure his contract from there. Street’s not worth a set amount because Jose Valverde is worth $8 million and Papelbon makes $6.25 million.
I think the Rockies bring Street back at around 6, maybe as high as 6.5 million. And I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s a two-year deal that keeps him around for an extra season. He’s been that good, and the Rox won’t be afraid to lock up a guy like him.
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
by Franchise26 on Aug 18, 2009 12:04 PM MDT up reply actions
If they offered Street that, why wouldn't he opt for arb?
I think the arb process does set amounts by looking at performance and service time. Valverde makes more because 2009 was his last arb year, vs. Jenks and Pap in their 1st.
For a 2 yr deal, the avg annual value would have to be even higher, because they’d be buying out a FA year.
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
I'd be surprised to see Street go to arb, I think he's fit in well with the org
and I’d similarly be surprised to see an 8M arb award. It makes things stickier, because we really need him still.
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by Andrew Martin on Aug 18, 2009 11:46 AM MDT up reply actions
If another team shows interest, they probably wouldn't hesitate, but I don't expect that to happen.
I think he’ll fight it out with EY (and uber dark horse Chris Nelson) for the 2B spot, and if he loses, he’s a utility player.
by Greg Stanwood on Aug 18, 2009 4:11 PM MDT up reply actions
I'd assume this, too
He’s arb eligible and will get a raise from his 1.6 or so million 2009 salary, but if they’re willing to rely on him in a playoff hunt, it’s hard to see them non-tendering him this off-season.
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
I really want the Rockies to give the pitching prospects a shot next year
Like giving Rogers, Chacin, and Hynick rotation shots with Marquis leaving and Hammel becoming a long man. I also want Deduno or Lindsay in the BP next year taking spots from Betancourt (The Rockies are highly doubted to take the option) and Eaton. (I expect Beimel to resign) Part of me wonders what would happen if we traded Street (I’ve heard his value is going higher every day) and made Morales or Daley the closer. I also would like for the Rockies to trade Hawpe (Another guy who won’t have a higher value) to get rid of his defense and have a close to equal offensive producer in Smith take his spot giving us an outfield of Smith/Fowler/CarGo. Spilly is almost definitely traded this year as well, making Murton the 4th outfielder, and have Eric Young Jr play super utility (that is, if he doesn’t win the 2nd base job). Torrealba should probably be released and McHenry will most likely be the 2nd catcher, though I wouldn’t have an issue with it if the Rockies made Bellorin the backup. With Atkins being non-tendered, and Q most likely not staying with the team, that leaves 2 open spots. I could see us getting another 1st/3rd guy (such as Ortmeier) and a reunion with Carroll would be nice, or we could just stay with Q being the fielding replacement. Did I miss anything?
I go back and forth on Hawpe
he is at his most valuable right now. BUT, he’s becoming a veteran presence, that is producing. But he’s not getting younger. But he could replace Helton. But Helton has a big buy out option that might be converted into an extra year, and the way Helton looks this year, that might be good to have.
see…I go back and forth on Hawpe
It might be difficult for Hawpe to outlast Helton
The club has an option on Hawpe for 2011, right? So if they bought out Helton and wanted Hawpe around, they’d need to extend Hawpe again. I wonder if they’d instead choose the Helton renegotiation (if he’s still productive) or go shopping.
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
see this is kinda what I'm starting to think as well
a 9 million buy out for Helton’s last year, can be converted into a contract extension and made into useful money, and not just “here’s 9 million to not play for us”. So he could outlast Hawpe (good way of putting it there FooMan). Which lowers Hawpe’s long term value.
but…I think an OF of Hawpe, Fowler, and Gonzalez in 2010 is better then one of CarGo, Fowler, and Smith/Murton.
Or the Rockies re-sign Matt Holliday, and trade Hawpe, then it’s CarGo, Folwer, and Holliday. (let me dream please)
my concern is simply based on defensive optimality
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by Andrew Martin on Aug 18, 2009 12:17 PM MDT up reply actions
I like that idea as well, at least at some point
With Coors’ big OF, it might makes sense to try to find speedier OF’s, esp. if you can find ones with good OBP to make up for a little less power.
If CarGon can consistently pull a .800 OPS, like .350/.450, I think he could replace Hawpe and the D would make up for the O. The assumption there is that that OPS would be about a .350 wOBA, and Hawpe really is 15-20 runs yr below avg in the field, and CarGon could be expected to be neutral to +5. The latter esp. seems reasonable.
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
Isn't that the wrong comparison?
I don’t think it’s CarGo vs Hawpe, rather Hawpe vs Smith/Murton as it would be assumed CarGo wins a majority of the playing time wither Hawpe is there or not.
Pretty much
It would be a similar comparison, just more complicated because now there’s multiple moves/changes from what’s happening this season (where CarGon has had a little playing time in LF and CF). I’m not sure what to make of Smith’s D, since we aren’t working off many starts, but I’d assume he’d have to make up a little more of the difference with the bat (esp. as CarGon probably also gains a few runs on the bases).
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
Fangraphs article
Interestingly, there’s a recent fangraphs article on the topic.
As usual, they take the small samples of UZR way too literally (and far more literally than the stat’s designer recommends, I would add). If you go by the small samples of UZR data, you never remove Smith from LF because he’s a gold glover. There are plenty of Seth fans around the row, but I doubt that’s the reason why most of them want him to get playing time.
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
Even in RZR Smith has solid defensive numbers...
He scores higher than Hawpe in RF and Holliday in LF over the past 2 years, but he falls slightly below Spilly and his numbers are even with CarGo.
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Hawpe's a garbage fielder, so no surprises there
And Holliday is a lazy fielder. I’m frankly glad he’s gone, I’d rather see Carlos Gonzalez trying really hard at all aspects of the game rather than Holliday not really try too hard to tough fly balls.
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by Andrew Martin on Aug 19, 2009 9:28 AM MDT up reply actions
Rockies Outfield 2010..
I honestly think the best Rockies outfield for 2010 would be:
Smith LF
Dex CF
CarGo RF
Defensively they would be stronger than the current group and I feel Smith would at least be even with Hawpe in offensive numbers. Their OPS are nearly even this year and Smith’s SLG would probably increase with more PA’s.
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Or, Smith's numbers could go down
Since this year he has hit with the platoon advantage 88% of the time.
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
and he has a .774 OPS when hes not PH
which is not even close to Brad Hawpe’s career 877 OPS
by purplesocks on Aug 19, 2009 12:56 PM MDT up reply actions
at the same time
he’s never been a full time, secure starting player.
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by Andrew Martin on Aug 19, 2009 1:11 PM MDT up reply actions
At the same time
We were saying all this about Ryan Spilborghs after 2008
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Aug 19, 2009 4:46 PM MDT up reply actions
at the same time
shut up
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by Andrew Martin on Aug 20, 2009 9:44 AM MDT up reply actions
Can you explain RZR?
I’ve seen the stat listed at THT, but don’t know what’s supposed to mean or how to adapt it to a meaningful number. How does one weigh the RZR pct. vs. out of zone (OOZ) plays?
The data inputs are supposed from BIS, same guys who supply pbp data input into the fangraphs version of UZR (though the stuff fangraphs purchases has additional parameters—more zones, some rudimentary info on how hard hit the ball is, etc.). How does it compare? That is, is the data so similar that if there’s a measurement error (was the ball in zone or out of zone), would it show up in both systems?
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
RZR measures a fielders range..
by analyzing the zones in which the average fielder at that player’s position fields at least 50% of balls for outs. Using position zones for every player allows for consistency and shows how many OOZ plays a fielder makes. Here’s an article that explains it in more depth.
The way I use RZR is by balancing the RZR with the OOZ plays. For instance in CF this year Fukudome leads the NL with a RZR of .966 but Micheal Bourne has 91 OOZ plays. So the Cubs CF is solid and makes the plays he is supposed to, but Bourne has the better range.
CF……………..RZR…..OOZ
Fukudome….. .966 ….38
Bourne………. .952 ….91
Fowler……….. .912 ….53
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I think Helton's buyout is $4.6 million, but the point stands
As that’s a ginormous buyout!
The tough thing about the OF decision is knowing what to expect out of Fowler, CarGon and Smith. We think those guys are good, but we pretty much know what we’re getting from Hawpe. So there’s a little more variance there if they went with all young guys.
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
To us, it's all the same
Oodles of money!
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
Close to no chance at all
He can’t walk and is having issues hitting the ball in the Cal league. I’d be surprised if he even is in the MLB by 2011.
by bballrox4717 on Aug 18, 2009 1:40 PM MDT up reply actions
Here's the status of each of the players on the 40 Man Roster as of today, August 18, 2009:
Just for everyone’s reference when thinking about what to do for 2010:
The following are signed already, and will only be gone if traded or down for injury:
- Aaron Cook
- Manny Corpas
- Jeff Francis
- Brad Hawpe
- Todd Helton
- Ubaldo Jimenez
- Troy Tulowitzki
The following players will/should go through the process of arbitration unless traded or signed to a contract:
- Garrett Atkins
- Clint Barmes
- Taylor Buchholz
- Jorge De La Rosa
- Randy Flores
- Chris Iannetta
- Joel Peralta
- Ryan Spilborghs
- Huston Street
May go through arbitration, depending upon how much service time they achieve through the end of the season, and what the super two cutoff is:
- Jason Hammel
- Matt Murton
- Omar Quintanilla
The following players will be under team control in 2010:
- Edwin Bellorin
- Jhoulys Chacin
- Matt Daley
- Samuel Deduno
- Dexter Fowler
- Hector Gomez
- Carlos Gonzalez
- Shane Lindsay
- Franklin Morales
- Chris Nelson
- Greg Reynolds
- Esmil Rogers
- Greg Smith
- Seth Smith
- Ian Stewart
- Eric Young Jr.
The following players have option years on their contract that may or may not be activated:
- Rafael Betancourt (club)
- Adam Eaton (mutual)
- Alan Embree (mutual)
- Yorvit Torrealba (mutual)
The following are headed to free agency unless resigned before the season ends:
- Joe Beimel
- Josh Fogg
- Jason Marquis
- Juan Rincon
by Greg Stanwood on Aug 18, 2009 3:32 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
My thoughts on this:
All of our signed players should be on the team to start the season. The one least likely to be here is Hawpe, whom as of now it appears may not actively be shopped, but probably will not be denied being part of a deal that gets them something they need if that’s what they ask for.
It’s safe to say that De La Rosa, Iannetta, and Street will be considered in the offseason for contracts pre-arbitration season. Atkins will be shopped, barring some sort of Ian Stewart issue (injury, meltdown). Spilborghs will be shopped. They’ll want to give Buchholz a shot; he probably won’t be considered for a contract, though, with the unsure nature of his skill upon return. Flores and Peralta are non-tender candidates, but may stay if our bullpen depth looks as shoddy as it does right now in a couple months. Barmes is tricky, because our 2B situation next year could be one of several different things. He could make a return, or he could be a super utility player. He’s probably staying unless someone else shows interest.
Hammel’s spot in the rotation is in pretty serious jeopardy, and may figure to be our new Josh Fogg in 2010. Murton has a very solid chance of being our 4th or 5th OF next year. Quintanilla is a non-tender candidate.
Bellorin contends for the backup catcher spot. Chacin competes for a rotation spot. Daley is most likely in the pen. Deduno may contend for a spot, but is more likely headed to AAA with his domination at AA this season. Fowler is in CF. Gomez stays in the minors. Gonzalez is in LF (or RF is Hawpe is gone). Lindsay will make a strong case for coming with the team in the pen if he shows he is healthy in ST, considering our lack of pen depth. Otherwise, minors. Morales probably remains a reliever and is in the pen. Nelson may have a super outside shot at second base, but both Barmes and Young are higher shots obviously. Reynolds is either hurt or in the minors. Rogers contends for a spot in the rotation. Greg Smith may be in contention by name and position only, but probably heads back to the minors. Seth Smith is our LF is Hawpe is gone, or is our 4th OF/PH specialist. Stewart is at 3B. EY2 is either our starting 2B, or a bench player.
Betancourt’s option is probably declined unless we NEED more relievers. Eaton is declined, Embree is declined, Torrealba is declined.
Beimel may be resigned if he comes cheap, but could just as easily depart. Fogg is probably gone too unless we get him on a minor league deal like we did this year. An effort will be made to sign Marquis, but I think he’s gone. Rincon isn’t pursued at all.
by Greg Stanwood on Aug 18, 2009 4:07 PM MDT up reply actions
Good run-down
I think Betancourt’s option will be declined ($5.4 million). It’s hard to see a scenario where he stays. Even if Street got hit by a bus, I’m not sure they pick up Betancourt’s option, they might want to look elsewhere for a closer.
I think Atkins will be shopped, but most likely he’ll be non-tendered. I can’t believe anyone would want him at that price.
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
His price will go down after this year (Atkins).
A team in need of a 3B and potential power hitter will not be afraid to take a risk on him.
Betancourt’s heavy option, as I said, looks to be declined, but I think if they really needed the help, they’d pony up for it. Our bullpen looks pretty gross right now. Street’s in there, a schizophrenic Corpas is in there, Morales and Daley are probably in there, and then Hammel or another long reliever. Two more spots, with Flores, Peralta, and Lindsay really the only people who will surely be in the organization to fill them. Beimel could be resigned, or another FA…. and then there’s expensive Betancourt.
by Greg Stanwood on Aug 18, 2009 4:33 PM MDT up reply actions
Quintanilla ?
Could someone tell me why we got him and what does “non-tender candidate means” . Thanks
Q is making $408,000
and non-tender simply means we don’t offer him a contract, or in other words, we cut him.
He goes year to year with his contracts, there’s no need to lock him up.
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Seth Smith Status: Part of a Good Problem
Chris Iannetta Status: OH MY GOD GET SOME HITS YOU'RE MAKING ME LOOK LIKE AN ASS
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by Andrew Martin on Aug 19, 2009 9:30 AM MDT up reply actions
Adam Eaton (mutual)
DEEEE Cline
Mike McCoy Status: BETTER BE A SEPT CALLUP
Seth Smith Status: Part of a Good Problem
Chris Iannetta Status: OH MY GOD GET SOME HITS YOU'RE MAKING ME LOOK LIKE AN ASS
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Considering it is for 9 million dollars, that's not only a guarantee, it's more than a guarantee.
by Greg Stanwood on Aug 18, 2009 3:42 PM MDT up reply actions
Is that option even still out there?
Not that anyone would pick it up. I wonder if it’s even still valid. Philly signed the deal that had the option, then released him. Baltimore and the the Rockies picked him up as a FA.
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
It is still valid, according to Cot's.
by Greg Stanwood on Aug 18, 2009 4:30 PM MDT up reply actions
I wonder for whom the option would be valid, assuming it is
They have list the contract, because the contract is still valid. But the contract is with the Phillies, and the Orioles and Rockies did not assume it, so I wonder if anyone besides the Phillies can pick up the option.
It does seem safe to assume no one will, though!
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
What do you mean "not assumed"?
It seems to me that the contract was purchased back post-minor league contracts each time, by both Baltimore and Colorado.
by Greg Stanwood on Aug 18, 2009 8:16 PM MDT up reply actions
Huh?
Do you mean the line at Cots saying “contract purchased by Baltimore”, etc? I don’t think that means the 3yr $24 million contract that he signed when he joined the Phillies. That’s how it’s always termed when a player is added to the 40-man.
I guess I don’t know the terminology to use, but I assume Philly is “on the hook” for that big deal, in the sense that they, rather than the Rockies or Orioles, are paying the millions. I assume the option goes with that contract. But could the Phillies still exercise it? That would seem weird.
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
As far as I understand it:
1. Adam Eaton is bound to the contract. Because he was not the one who opted out of that contract, Eaton is still owed that money.
2. Baltimore, followed by Colorado, purchased that contract when they placed Adam Eaton on the MLB roster.
3. Baltimore and Colorado are not liable for that deal directly, due to Philadelphia being the original releaser.
4. As it stands now, we have sole ownership of the contract.
I do not have the details in how exactly Adam Eaton is getting his money. However, if Eaton were for some reason signed to a new contract now, that would be reflected on Cot’s. There is no doubt, IMO, that Adam Eaton’s contract is this very one. Because WE own his contract, as Philly chose to release him, it is indeed us that has control of his option. And if we exercised that option, WE could owe him the 9 million, because we made that decision. Likewise, we are responsible for his buyout, as we own that too.
The question, I think, is how is Eaton getting paid for his 2009 salary? We’re obviously paying him now, but we’re also obviously not liable for much, possibly even only minimum wage. If I had to outright guess. Baltimore and Colorado each pay ~400,000 of Adam Eaton’s contract, while Philly is liable for the rest. That is just a guess, and I am not sure. but I AM sure that Eaton’s contract hasn’t changed, and I am certain we have full ownership of it.
by Greg Stanwood on Aug 18, 2009 11:56 PM MDT up reply actions
Philadelphia pays the entire contract
minus whatever the Rockies are paying him.
So we’re paying him a prorated league min, and the Phillies are paying the remainder.
If, say, multiple teams were interested, and we had to bid against them, and signed him for like 500k or something, the Phillies would pay whatever his contract was minus that 500k.
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by Andrew Martin on Aug 19, 2009 9:59 AM MDT up reply actions
huh?
I’m saying if we had to bid with another team, and made him a straight up, not prorated 500k offer (or an offer which prorates back to 500k)
Prorated league min is like 150k at this point in the season.
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Seth Smith Status: Part of a Good Problem
Chris Iannetta Status: OH MY GOD GET SOME HITS YOU'RE MAKING ME LOOK LIKE AN ASS
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by Andrew Martin on Aug 19, 2009 11:02 AM MDT up reply actions
ah ok
I made 2 separate cases and I didn’t know to which you were referring
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by Andrew Martin on Aug 19, 2009 11:34 AM MDT up reply actions
wow..major FAIL
ok..you were asking how much of the current contract the Rockies are paying? They are paying the league minimum pro-rated from when they picked him up.
however the option is ALL the Rockies, as they are currently holding His contract. The Phillies paid Eaton to NOT hold his contract. They paid him to NOT play for the Phillies
Hey, cool, my guess was pretty close.
Thanks for the info.
by Greg Stanwood on Aug 19, 2009 11:28 AM MDT up reply actions
Thanks yourself
I mean, I know NO ONE will exercise the option, but I was wondering how something like that works when a player clears waivers and is released, and then other teams sign him as a free agent. I knew they weren’t on the hook to pay him the salary from the original contract, but didn’t know whether they assumed all the other provisions of the contract.
Though the buyout is relevant.
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
Salaries
While wolfmarauder was compiling the above list, I was looking at salaries.
I was looking at it in terms of how much is coming off, and how much is pretty much a sure bet to be added as raises (through guaranteed contracts and arb-eligibles who will likely be tendered contracts).
Assuming payroll will stay somewhere around where it was opening day, or where it is with the mid-season additions, I think there’s $5-10M to play around with, unless something big happens, like Hawpe or Cook being traded.
Coming off the books*
Marquis – 9.875 million
Atkins – 7.05
Torrealba – 3.5
Embree – 2.0
Buchholz – 1.055
-—————————
23.48 M total
*I’m assuming Atkins is traded/non-tendered, Buch too. I didn’t count the millions of relievers added since opening day as I was arbitrarily going to use opening day payroll as a target for next year. We could easily add in those reliever salaries, though.
Guaranteed raises
(I’m assuming these players won’t be traded)
Cook – 0.25
Hawpe – 2.0
Francis – 2.0
Tulo – 2.5
Corpas – 2.0
Jimenez – 0.5
-—————————
9.25M Total
Arb-eligibles likely to be tendered contracts
Along with estimated raises (see notes on estimates below):
Street (from 4.5) est 3.0 raise
DLR (from 2.0) est 1.5 raise
Barmes (from 1.625) est 1.0 raise
Hammel (from 0.422) est 1.0 raise
Ianetta (from 0.415) est 1.8 raise
-——————————————————————-
8.3M total
That leaves about $5.9M, with the possible loose ends:
-replacing Marquis
-replacing Betancourt, Beimel, Fogg (and Morales if he entered the rotation)
-new backup catcher
-3 IF/OF backups to replace Spilly if traded, Q if non-tendered, and Atkins
If we want to include the salaries of the mid-season pickups, then I guess it’s about 1/3 of Beimel’s 2M, Betancourt’s 3.35, and figure a million or two more to cover Fogg, Rincon, Peralta, and Flores. For the guys outrighted (Belisle, too), I don’t know if those are split contracts or what.
So what, maybe we add 3-4M to the 5.9 for $9-10 in play money to fill out the rest of the pen and perhaps to get some starting pitching backup (e.g., a Fogg type in case Chacin et al falter or someone gets hurt)?
I assume the backup roles will go to players already in the system (Murton, EY2, etc.), and/or cheap FA’s like Paul Phillips.
=========
(Where’d those arb estimates come from? I tried to find comparables from the last 2 arb seasons for players with similar service time.
-Street: Jose Valverde had 5 yrs service time w/a similar 5th yr salary (4.7M to 4.5M in favor of Valverde) and a similar # of career saves to Street, and Houston signed him to a one yr deal for $8M. Above we noted other closers who came in above (K-Rod, who has a stronger career record and was coming off a $7M salary) and below (Jenks and Papelbon, who were in their 1st year of arb) where I’ve estimated Street. He could go higher, but $7.5M seems safe.
-DLR: I flat out guessed.
-Barmes: He’s a weird player, I wonder how he’ll compare. He’ll have about 4 yrs svc time, I found players w/3 yrs svc time who had better careers (Kelly Johnson and Rickie Weeks) who received $2.85M and 2.4M. Barmes will have good HR/RBI numbers and an extra yr of svc time, so I stuck him between those guys.
-Hammel: Cots projects him as a super-2. Even harder to find comps. Interestingly, Belisle in 2008 is a fair one. Super 2 with a lackluster season of 30 starts and mixed relief/starter seasons otherwise. He and the team agreed on 1.25 after submitting arb figures. Brian Bannister signed for 1.74M as a super-2; he wasn’t great but had 1 good and 1 bad season in the rotation. So I bumped Hammel up a little from where Belisle was, trying to be optimistic about the rest of Hammel’s season.
-Iannetta: Yeah, he’s having a disappointing season. I wonder how an arbitrator would take a low batting avg. John Buck of KC signed for $2.2M w/3 yrs svc time and is worse. Kelly Shoppach signed for 1.95 w/similar numbers to CDI but with less playing time.
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
Loose Ends
Marquis: Jhoulys Chacin, Esmil Rogers, Brandon Hynick, Morales, or a cheap free agent can fill this rotation spot.
Torrealba: McHenry is close to being MLB-ready, but I guess he will be seasoned in Triple A before a midseason callup. Edwin Bellorin and Paul Phillips are candidates to fill the backup catcher role.
Spilborghs: (if traded): We’ve known for a while that Matt Murton could play this role, though Cole Garner may be a darkhorse for this spot.
Omar Quintanilla: He could be non-tendered and offered a shot to remake the team during Spring Training, like Scott Podsednik. Another possibility is that we could trade for another utility man, sign one (minor league free agent with invitation to Spring Training), or we could just call somebody up. The big need here though is someone who can play shortstop, though if Eric Young Jr wins the 2nd base job from Clint Barmes, and Barmes is the new utility man, this need may be voided.
Josh Fogg: I doubt that Fogg, as a free agent, could ask for more than a million when he barely earned that much when he came off the World Series year, when he was more valuable. He could easily go the Scott Podsednik route as well if no one wants him: sign another minor league deal to try and make the team. My belief, though, is that he resigns for something less than a million with the Rockies as valued insurance. If we lose him, Hammel could slide into that long relief spot making a rotation spot open for someone young, we could fill it with a minor league free agent (Don’t forget that O’Dowd excels at these signings), or simply call up someone who can’t make the rotation out of Spring Training, and is losing leverage with the organization (Greg Smith, Greg Reynolds).
Joe Beimel: If we make the playoffs, then there is no reason as to why we shouldn’t be able to sign Beimel. He would want a 2 year, 4 million dollar deal, or a year for 3 million, which shouldn’t be a tragedy for the club to sign. It would cross off about a million of money coming off the books. If he doesn’t resign, we could fill the need with a Spilborghs trade, we could call up Matt Reynolds, or make a Randy Flores type signing. If the Rockies are opposed to doing the previous options for a lefty, a righty callup like Deduno or Speier wouldn’t be out of order. As of now, Beimel is a must sign for the Rockies, especially if Morales is molded into a starter, and is the perhaps the only pending free agent whom I expect the Rockies to sign.
Rafael Betancourt: Perhaps the most difficult hole to fill. Of course, I would favor the Rockies on picking up his option, but with it costing 5.5 million, that’s difficult to see. Right now, my best foreseeable option is for the Rockies to call up Lindsay and see if he is ready for the Rockies bullpen. Another option is for the Rockies to depend on Corpas again for the set-up role, or to convert Deduno or Rogers to the ’pen (just for this year, Chamberlain style). Right now, I see the Rockies hoping the Corpas fills the roles.
Garrett Atkins: The most complicated of all the pending holes that the team must fill. Obviously they will non-tender him, and the best case scenario is to hope that he will take less money for a bench role, but that, of course, is unrealistic. So who do we call upon to be the 3rd/1st base backup/power bat off the bench? I could see the Rockies either signing a free agent (Quinlan, Hinske, or Mientkiewicz?), or calling up Eric Young Jr to play that role, provided that Smith/Hawpe can back up first base and that Quintanilla stays on the team. Again, a Spilborghs trade could fill this hole as well if Beimel resigns with us.
by bballrox4717 on Aug 18, 2009 5:48 PM MDT up reply actions
My guess on the 2010 roster (this isn't what I want, but what I think the Rockies will do)
Rotation: 1) Jimenez 2) Cook 3) DLR 4) Hammel 5) Chacin
Bullpen: Fogg, Morales, Daley, Corpas, Beimel, Lindsay, Street
Position Starters C) Iannetta 1B) Helton 2B) Barmes SS) Tulowitzki LF) Gonzalez CF) Fowler RF) Hawpe
Backups: C) Phillips/Bellorin (No way of guessing, but it’s not going to be McHenry) OF) Murton OF/1B) Seth Smith IF) Eric Young Jr IF) Omar Quintanilla
Overview: The Rockies’s payroll doesn’t change much, they pay up to Fogg and Beimel, but allow Marquis, Torrealba, Betancourt, and Atkins to leave so that payroll doesn’t increase in a bad economy. They don’t take much risk with rookies, allowing EY2 some starts, but keeping Barmes entrenched in second, they move up Lindsay, and they allow their top prospect the last rotation spot. They effectively make Daley and Morales the set-up men, with Corpas and Beimel getting 7th inning work, while Fogg stays in long relief, and Lindsay plays mop-up duty. They trade Spilborghs as expected for pitching depth, giving Murton the spot and saving them cash. They keep Q in his role as a professional ball catcher, kind of useless IMO when a middle infield rotation of Tulo, Barmes, and EY2 could get more production. Speaking of EY2, he takes Atkins spot, pinch hitting and running and becoming Tracy’s most valuable double switch option. The outfield staysin it’s same roles, with essentially Murton doing what Spilly did for a better value.
Changes I would make to this:
1) Move Hammel to the bullpen, take out Lindsay, put Fogg in Triple A if we can
2) Make Rogers and Hynick rotation regulars, season Chacin at Triple A
3) Give EY2 starting job at second, make Barmes utility man/starters against lefties
4) Sign Hinske, DFA Quintanilla (and pray he makes it to Triple A)
5) Make McHenry the backup, give him 50-60 starts, keep the AAAA catchers as insurance
Yes, I realize I’m putting two rookies in a rotation that will probably be coming off a playoff berth, and Chacin isn’t one of them. You have to play the rookies though, because Hynick is a great 5 option, and Rogers has been a legit top 100 prospect that should be in the majors. Chacin needs work on his pitches, and to create a real identity for himself as a pitcher before he joins the rotation. As I stated before, a middle infield rotation of Barmes, Tulo, and EY2 would maximize production, with Barmes starting about 50-60 games (maybe like 10-15 at short), and EY2 getting tons of playing time to learn and become a quality major leaguer. Hammel should be the long man, making him available to eat innings and make spot starts for a young rotation. Quintanilla just can’t hit, and we need back-ups that can actually hit and provide production. Hinske can play all of the corners in the field, while giving us a legit power bat off the bench. With Iannetta, he can’t start 120-130 games, and Bellorin and Phillips are not major league starters. While it will take a bit for McHenry’s bat to hit for contact, we’ll get a great defensive catcher who can start games.
by bballrox4717 on Aug 18, 2009 6:17 PM MDT up reply actions
Fogg and Atkins
I think Atkins is likely to go to some team that will give him a chance at playing time. He knows that won’t happen here.
Fogg, too, will likely look for a place with a greater role. Though who knows if he finds it.
I think you’re right in that they will likely turn to a cheap FA to fill the 1B/3B backup role and one of the “losers” in the 5th starter competition for the Fogg role if he’s not back. As with this season, I’m sure they’ll line up a number of candidates of varying quality to back up the primary competitors for the back rotation slots. I’m sure they’d love for it to be Chacin and the like, but if they falter, they’ll have guys like Smith and Fogg around.
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
why would we trade bucholz?
and who would trade for him? hes coming off TJ and wont be available until at least midseason. whos going to trade for that?
Is this a reply to me?
I didn’t say we’d trade him. I assumed he’d be non-tendered and then re-signed. Otherwise, we’d be offering him a chance to go to arbitration.
In retrospect, that’s not right. We’ll probably tender him a contract. I would guess it will be for less money or incentive-based (depending on what’s allowed), so I shouldn’t have counted all that $ as coming off the books.
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
SIGN RICH HARDEN
SIGNRICHHARDENSIGNRICHHARDENSIGNRICHHARDENSIGNRICHHARDEN
SIGNRICHHARDENSIGNRICHHARDENSIGNRICHHARDENSIGNRICHHARDENSIGNRICHHARDEN
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SIGNRICHHARDENSIGNRICHHARDENSIGNRICHHARDENSIGNRICHHARDENSIGNRICHHARDENSIGNRICHHARDENSIGNRICHHARDEN
SIGNRICHHARDENSIGNRICHHARDENSIGNRICHHARDEN
SIGNRICHHARDEN
SIGNRICHHARDENSIGNRICHHARDENSIGNRICHHARDENSIGNRICHHARDENSIGNRICHHARDENSIGNRICHHARDENSIGNRICHHARDEN
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The Rockies need some oldschool purple/white striped high socks. The team’s problem is it’s lack of swagger. I feel strongly that these socks will provide the swagger necessary to tap the potential that are the Rockies.
no?
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by Andrew Martin on Aug 19, 2009 10:00 AM MDT up reply actions
That's funny,
it looks like you typed “no?” but I just keep reading it as “I don’t want the Rockies to win anything ever”.
The Rockies need some oldschool purple/white striped high socks. The team’s problem is it’s lack of swagger. I feel strongly that these socks will provide the swagger necessary to tap the potential that are the Rockies.
I read it as
“We don’t want to pay 10 million a year for a guy who will make 20 starts a season.”
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
by Franchise26 on Aug 19, 2009 10:47 AM MDT up reply actions
In all honesty
He’d probably give us (or anyone) more than 10 million in value if he makes 20 starts.
The Rockies need some oldschool purple/white striped high socks. The team’s problem is it’s lack of swagger. I feel strongly that these socks will provide the swagger necessary to tap the potential that are the Rockies.
then perhaps you should adjust your reading comprehension
funny how terrible we are without rich harden. he’s clearly the solution, not any of the minor leaguers we have ready or near ready to impact the rotation next season, for like 1/100th of the cost.
When he’s healthy, Harden may be the best pitcher in the league, but he always has so many lingering injury issues, I don’t think he CAN pitch at 100% anymore.
He has a huge K rate as it stands, and a totally acceptable walk rate, but his 1.7 HR9 won’t play well for us, especially not for the pricetag he’s going to have attached to him.
Plus, for an injury prone guy, thin mountain air won’t help him much at all. Fatigue factors in for all athletes much more in Denver than elsewhere.
His great numbers in the past happened in Oakland, which is a notorious pitcher’s park which suppresses power numbers like mad. He’d get destroyed in Coors.
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Seth Smith Status: Part of a Good Problem
Chris Iannetta Status: OH MY GOD GET SOME HITS YOU'RE MAKING ME LOOK LIKE AN ASS
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by Andrew Martin on Aug 19, 2009 11:08 AM MDT up reply actions
A few things
1. Not to say he is no longer fragile, but he’s been much less injured (if that makes sense) since he scrapped his slider. He’s literally thrown only fastballs and changeups this year.
2. His career HR/9 rate is .85. This year is the exception (so far).
3. You got me on the thin-air/fatigue/injury front.
4. Rich Harden can come out and publicly state that he only plans to pitch next year with a poorly-wired time bomb strapped to his chest all season and I’d still give him a contract.
BOOM
The Rockies need some oldschool purple/white striped high socks. The team’s problem is it’s lack of swagger. I feel strongly that these socks will provide the swagger necessary to tap the potential that are the Rockies.
fun post
gonzales will be in major contention for a rotation spot next year.
a lefty who throws mid 90’s, with good breaking stuff??
he’s only 23, he has enormous upside – and he’s gaining valuable experience..
actually he already has some – like pitching in post season play at the age of 21…
he’s a top of the rotation guy along with ubaldo – if he continues to mature – he has all the tools, he just needs more consistency, and he’s showing that he’s improving in that area.
Maybe I'm naive
But why is re-signing Marquis seemingly out of the question?
"Good teams win games, horse**** teams have meetings." - Ozzie Guillen
He's too expensive
After a career year like this he’ll be in high demand and other, richer teams will drive his price up. Although he seems to love it here, he can’t realistically be expected to sacrifice several million in salary for the privilege of staying at Coors.
Also, IMHO, the likelihood is he’ll regress next season (simply because of the law of averages).
It's not out of the question, to answer yours
but it will be financially prohibitive, as biondino shows, and more importantly, he’ll be a pitcher who will probably perform worse next year.
Mike McCoy Status: BETTER BE A SEPT CALLUP
Seth Smith Status: Part of a Good Problem
Chris Iannetta Status: OH MY GOD GET SOME HITS YOU'RE MAKING ME LOOK LIKE AN ASS
Check out the most recent MLB Transactions on MLB Daily Dish
by Andrew Martin on Aug 19, 2009 10:01 AM MDT up reply actions
Right
I’d also say we’re all assuming payroll is not going to keep going up. So, on a team that has a lot of starting pitching prospects and a payroll of $75-80 million, is re-signing Marquis the best use for the money?
I’m sure the team will inquire, and if he comes cheaply, sure. But if he wants a multi yr deal for 8,9,10 million /yr? It’s a much harder choice, and I suspect the team wouldn’t go for it.
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
yeah i would offer him Arb
that way we would get compensation if he doesnt sign, but anything more than a one year deal is a no no
Do Elias rankings really not account for playing time?
MLBTR still lists him as a type A, and they’re updating it fairly regularly.
If he’s really a type A, there’s 0% chance someone signs him if he’s offered arb. No one’s giving up a pick to get a guy who might be back in the 2nd half.
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
might be back...?
Mike McCoy Status: BETTER BE A SEPT CALLUP
Seth Smith Status: Part of a Good Problem
Chris Iannetta Status: OH MY GOD GET SOME HITS YOU'RE MAKING ME LOOK LIKE AN ASS
Check out the most recent MLB Transactions on MLB Daily Dish
by Andrew Martin on Aug 19, 2009 1:35 PM MDT up reply actions
we're talking about marquis arent we?
not bucholz
What I think the Rockies will do with the roster (coming out of Spring Training):
Rotation:
Jimenez, Cook, DLR, Hammel, Morales/Francis
Bullpen:
Street, Corpas, Daley, Weathers, Morales/Deduno, LHP (Beimel, likely), Long Man (Cheap FA “veteran”)
Catcher:
Iannetta, Philips/Bellorin—bring up McKenry in June
First Base:
Helton, FA
Second Base:
Barmes, EY2
Shortstop:
Tulo
Third Base:
Stewart
Left-Field:
CarGo, Smith
Center-Field:
Fowler
Right-Field:
Hawpe, Murton
In other words, not much will change, though the bullpen and bench will likely be worse (due to Atkins being gone) while the team’s payroll remains at the $75 million level or drops by a few.
We should trade Hawpe in addition to Spilborghs this offseason, but won’t.
Eschew Obfuscation!
Free Agent List 2009
C Brad Ausmus
C Paul Bako
C Rod Barajas
C Josh Bard
C Michael Barrett
C Henry Blanco
C Ramon Castro
C Sal Fasano
C Toby Hall
C Ramon Hernandez (option)
C Jason Kendall
C Jason LaRue
C Adam Melhuse
C Chad Moeller
C Bengie Molina
C Jose Molina
C Miguel Olivo (option)
C Mike Redmond
C Ivan Rodriguez
C Brian Schneider
C Yorvit Torrealba (option)
C Javier Valentin
C Jason Varitek (option)
C Gregg Zaun (option)
1B Carlos Delgado
1B Ross Gload (option)
1B Nick Johnson
1B Adam LaRoche
1B Doug Mientkiewicz
1B Kevin Millar
1B Matt Stairs
1B Mike Sweeney
1B Jim Thome
2B Mark Bellhorn
2B Ronnie Belliard
2B Geoff Blum
2B Orlano Hudson
2B Adam Kennedy
2B Placido Polanco
3B Adrian Beltre
3B Hank Blalock
3B Joe Crede
3B Pedro Feliz (option)
3B Troy Glaus
3B Melvin Mora (option)
SS Angel Berroa
SS Orlando Cabrera
SS Bobby Crosby
SS David Eckstein
SS Adam Everett
SS Khalil Greene
SS Miguel Tejada
SS Jack Wilson (option)
SS Omar Vizquel
IF Rich Aurilia
IF Aaron Boone
IF Russell Branyan
IF Jolbert Cabrera
IF Miguel Cairo
IF Jamey Carroll
IF Juan Castro
IF Alex Cintron
IF Alex Cora
IF Craig Counsell
IF Mark DeRosa
IF Chone Figgins
IF Nomar Garciaparra
IF Alex L. Gonzalez (option)
IF Aubey Huff
IF Tony Graffanino
IF Felipe Lopez
IF Mark Loretta
IF Ramon Martinez
IF John McDonald
IF Robb Quinlan
IF Luis Rivas
IF Freddy Sanchez (option)
IF Marcos Scutaro
IF Chad Tracy (option)
IF Juan Uribe
IF Chris Woodward
IF Dmitri Young (option)
OF Bobby Abreu
OF Garrett Anderson
OF Rick Ankiel
OF Rocco Baldelli
OF Jason Bay
OF Marlon Byrd
OF Mike Cameron
OF Frank Catalonotto (option)
OF Endy Chavez
OF Cral Crawford (option)
OF Coco Crisp (option)
OF Johnny Damon
OF David Dellucci
OF Jermaine Dye (option)
OF Darin Erstad
OF Cliff Floyd
OF Ryan Freel
OF Jay Gibbons
OF Brian Giles
OF Ken Griffey Jr.
OF Vladimir Guerrero
OF Matt Holliday
OF Reed Johnson
OF Andruw Jones
OF Gabe Kapler
OF Austin Kearns (option)
OF Hideki Matsui
OF Jason Michaels
OF Craig Monroe
OF Xavier Nady
OF Greg Norton
OF Magglio Ordonez (option)
OF Corey Patterson
OF Wily Mo Pena
OF Scott Podsednik
OF Gary Sheffield
OF Randy Winn
C/1B Victor Martinez (option)
1B/OF Mark Kotsay
1B/OF Daryle Ward
IF/OF Jerry Hairston Jr.
IF/OF Eric Hinske
IF/OF Fernando Tatis
P Luis Ayala
P Danys Baez
P Miguel Bautista
P Josh Beckett (option)
P Eric Bedard
P Joe Beimel
P Joaquin Benoit
P Kris Benson
P Rafael Betancourt (option)
P Chad Bradford
P Doug Brocail (option)
P Paul Byrd
P Kiko Calero
P Bruce Chen
P Matt Clement
P Jesus Colome
P Bartolo Colon
P Jose Contreras
P Doug Davis
P Elmer Dessens
P Brendan Donnelly
P Octavio Dotel
P Justin Duchscherer
P Adam Eaton (option)
P Alan Embree (option)
P Kelvim Escobar
P Scott Eyre
P Josh Fogg
P Casey Fossum
P Chad Fox
P Ryan Franklin (option)
P Freddy Garcia
P Jon Garland (option)
P Mike Gonzalez
P John Grabow
P Kevin Gregg
P Eddie Guardado
P Mike Hampton
P Rich Harden
P LaTroy Hawkins
P Mark Hendrickson
P Matt Herges
P Livan Hernandez
P Trevor Hoffman
P Bob Howry
P Tim Hudson (option)
P Jason Isringhausen
P Jason Jennings
P Jason Johnson
P Randy Johnson
P Jorge Julio
P John Lackey
P Cliff Lee (option)
P Braden Looper (option)
P Rodrigo Lopez
P Brandon Lyon
P Ron Mahay
P Jason Marquis
P Pedro Martinez
P Trever Miller
P Eric Milton
P Brian Moehler (option)
P Guillermo Mota
P Brett Myers
P Tomo Ohka
P Will Ohman (option)
P Darren Oliver
P Vicente Padilla (option)
P Chan Ho Park
P John Parrish
P Carl Pavano
P Brad Penny
P Troy Percival
P Andy Pettitte
P Joel Pineiro
P JJ Putz (option)
P Horacio Ramirez
P Juan Rincon
P Fernando Rodney
P Glendon Rusch
P Jason Schmidt
P Scott Schoeneweis
P Rudy Seanez
P Brian Shouse (option)
P John Smoltz
P Rafael Soriano
P Jorge Sosa
P Russ Springer
P Tanyon Sturze
P Brett Tomko
P Jose Valverde
P Claudio Vargas
P Ron Villone
P Luis Vizcaino (option)
P Billy Wagner (option)
P Tim Wakefield (option)
P Jarrod Washburn
P David Weathers (option)
P Jeff Weaver
P Brandon Webb (option)
P Todd Wellemeyer
P Kip Wells
P Randy Wolf
P Jamey Wright
Well what do you know
Rich Harden is on that list.
The Rockies need some oldschool purple/white striped high socks. The team’s problem is it’s lack of swagger. I feel strongly that these socks will provide the swagger necessary to tap the potential that are the Rockies.
WALL OF TEXT
Mike McCoy Status: BETTER BE A SEPT CALLUP
Seth Smith Status: Part of a Good Problem
Chris Iannetta Status: OH MY GOD GET SOME HITS YOU'RE MAKING ME LOOK LIKE AN ASS
Check out the most recent MLB Transactions on MLB Daily Dish
by Andrew Martin on Aug 21, 2009 8:59 AM MDT up reply actions
It took me an hour to make that wall of text.
by Greg Stanwood on Aug 22, 2009 10:11 PM MDT up reply actions
I feel awful because you could've copied/pasted it from MLB Trade Rumors
Mike McCoy Status: BETTER BE A SEPT CALLUP
Seth Smith Status: Part of a Good Problem
Chris Iannetta Status: OH MY GOD GET SOME HITS YOU'RE MAKING ME LOOK LIKE AN ASS
Check out the most recent MLB Transactions on MLB Daily Dish
by Andrew Martin on Aug 22, 2009 10:30 PM MDT up reply actions
Heh.
I thought about it, but none of the previously assembled ones seemed accurate enough. So I browsed each teams’ contracts (major and minor) and based it off of that
by Greg Stanwood on Aug 23, 2009 1:23 AM MDT up reply actions
personally
I appreciated this list. I read each one…but I’m a hot stove geek. Like some who want to crunch numbers, and others watch amateur drafts, I really am interested in the off season stuff.
You should keep up on this list as the winter goes along.
a lot of names on that list it seems
and I think that teams will be tight with FA contracts this year, as I think many are feeling the effects of the economy. This off season is really, really going to be interesting. I doubt a lot of these names are signed until right before spring training.
Many names on that list would make the Rockies a better team. Namely Figgins, and Benji Molina.
And what about Matt Holliday? Will he drop enough for the Rockies to play? Seriously the Rockies need a right handed bat. Hawpe is traded, CarGo starts in Rf,Folwer in CF, and Holliday in Left. Smith off the bench.
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