Friday Rockpile: Shorthanded Rox enter (another) big series with the Giants

by theoldgrizzlybear on Aug 28, 2009 8:00 AM MDT in Rockpile Comment 142 comments

Not having the services of this guy this weekend could be brutal.

Loss doesn't deck Rockies - The Denver Post
The Rox are still upbeat despite losing 2 out of 3 to the first place Dodgers. They'll need to stay that way to be able to make it through the weekend with a victory or two, as they face three pitchers that they haven't had much success against all year. When your best chance of winning (based on recent history) comes against the reigning Cy Young winner, you know you have a problem. The Rockies have hit Tim Lincecum better this year than they have hit Barry Zito or Matt Cain, and they haven't hit "the hair" all that well, either.. Here's hoping for a breakthrough.

Baseball Tonight Clubhouse: Giants look to get even with Rockies - MLB - ESPN
Tim Kurkjian picks the Giants to win two out of three in the upcoming series, mostly because the Giants' pitching staff is in good order, as discussed earlier, and because they'll be looking for payback.

Krieger: CarGo's a no-go at key time - The Denver Post
Carlos Gonzalez left yesterday's game with a bruised thumb - an injury unrelated to the self-inflicted stab wound he received last weekend. He injured himself diving for a fly ball hit by James Loney in the fourth inning. He is unsure if he'll be able to go this weekend against the Giants. It will obviously be a big loss if he misses any one, or all three, of the games.

Character questions cool interest in Penny - The Denver Post
The Rockies, who are dealing with a similar situation to the one they dealt with in 2007 (with Aaron Cook on the shelf back then as well), look like they aren't showing much interest in Brad Penny, after all (also confirmed by Buster Olney HERE). The Rox have a few internal options, most notably Russ Ortiz. Renck/Saunders mentioned in the article that Ortiz pitched well in his first start with Colorado Springs. The thought of Russ Ortiz taking the vacated spot in the rotation doesn't exactly tickle me pink, but I know there aren't a whole lot of options out there. I know this has been beaten to death, but do you think the Rox should give Chacin/Hynick/somebody else in the minors a look before inserting a guy like Ortiz, or - gasp - giving Fogg another start? It may benefit the club to simply put a guy in there who has yet to be seen at the big league level that can throw strikes, but that's just my opinion.

Comments

Has this been mentioned before?

Lincecum reminds me of the kid from Dazed and Confused. I half-expect him to do the nose-pinching thing every time he gets the ball.

I’m feeling pretty zen about this series. A sweep would suck, but coming out with just one win would be acceptable, provided they go on a tear as soon as they leave San Francisco. They just need to get healthy again, and stay that way.

by Yokel on Aug 28, 2009 8:25 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Kramer

Jodi: Is that a beer in your hand?
Mitch: Why, yes it is.

Seriously, great call. I hadn’t thought of it and now I won’t be able to think of anything else.

by Teekalong on Aug 28, 2009 10:40 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Just as a quick reminder

If you really enjoy someone’s post, and all you want to respond with is “+1” or “haha”, consider using the “Rec” function (actions => Rec) in lieu of/in addition to the low-content comment.

There’s nothing wrong with +1’s or anything like that, but let’s try using recs rather than filling an entire page with +1 on a solid post.

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by Andrew Martin on Aug 28, 2009 8:28 AM MDT reply actions 6 recs

Jennings wasn't all that great when he was here, anyway

Yes, 2006 was pretty studly. That’s about the end of it right there.

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by Andrew Martin on Aug 28, 2009 8:30 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

I watched him pitch in July against the Angels (on tv).

Absolutely terrible. BTW, I also saw Grilli pitch in the series.

by mkorpal on Aug 28, 2009 8:34 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'll always remember his thighs

and his debut, of course

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Aug 28, 2009 9:01 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

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by Andrew Martin on Aug 28, 2009 9:10 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hynick is the guy I think should take the mound for Cook

He has the control to give us a very solid twice threw the lineup. Granted, I’m not sure if he has the stuff to make it threw the lineup a third time. I would have given it to Chacin if he hadn’t blown up his last start in AAA, issuing a ton of walks (which is what he was doing wrong in his first major league start). It’s obvious he hasn’t learned how to pitch to major leaguers yet.

by mkorpal on Aug 28, 2009 8:33 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

After visting this question multiple times...

I’m feeling more and more inclined to agree with this.

My only worry is that Hynick, like Chacin, may get the bugaboos and start missing his spots – or the zone altogether.

Ortiz, on the other hand, has been yuck for several years now. This is a tough one, I think…

Just an average guy with exceptional hair. Nothing more, nothing less.

by theoldgrizzlybear on Aug 28, 2009 8:39 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

And with Hynick,

that’s a huge concern.

"If we never try, we shall never succeed." - Abraham Lincoln

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!

by Russ Oates on Aug 28, 2009 8:44 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

My hope is that Hynick is a more mature starter than Chacin

But you never know until you do it.

by mkorpal on Aug 28, 2009 8:45 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

But after the 1st

The “starter” wouldn’t have to go 3 times through a line up. they wouldn’t have to go twice, with all the extra arms the will be hanging out in the bullpen at that point.

I’d start Chacin. I’d let everyone know it’s only for a few innings and get ready to work/pitch.

Or…I’d go with Morales, and start stretching him out. Again, he wouldn’t need to go a long way. Yes we lose a lefty out of the pen, but Morales really is he best pitcher of all the names.

Ortiz has NOTHING in the tank..Nothing…will make Fogg look like Nolan Ryan. In fact, I’d rather have Nolan Ryan at age 60 or whatever he is now, then Ortiz.

by Redhawk on Aug 28, 2009 8:55 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Definately Morales

He has the experience as a starter.

by TripleT-Rox on Aug 28, 2009 12:28 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

through

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by Andrew Martin on Aug 28, 2009 9:10 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

My main man

Rich Harden was claimed off of waivers by an unknown team.

Rumor has it that it was the Twins, I for one hope it wasn’t.

We should totally get Rich Harden. He’d be awesome and then give us two draft picks (if we couldn’t resign him).

The Rockies need some oldschool purple/white striped high socks. The team’s problem is it’s lack of swagger. I feel strongly that these socks will provide the swagger necessary to tap the potential that are the Rockies.

by Resolution on Aug 28, 2009 8:46 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

That would be very nice

But I’m sure that we would need to pay a big price for him.

by mkorpal on Aug 28, 2009 8:49 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not too sure

we’d have to lose someone notable for sure, but an injury-prone pitcher for one month shouldn’t cost thaaat much, right?

I’m all for trading Deduno. Too bad we still don’t have Murton too.

by Resolution on Aug 28, 2009 8:53 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

The problem is that Deduno is on the 40 man roster

So he would need to pass threw waivers in order to be traded. I’m not sure who the Rockies have put on waivers and who has passed (if anyone at all).

by mkorpal on Aug 28, 2009 8:56 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

The revocable waivers aren't usually published

that I know of….but I could just not know where to look.

by Redhawk on Aug 28, 2009 8:59 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don"t think it's published

But a lot of times, the media gets hold of some of the names on the list.

by mkorpal on Aug 28, 2009 9:03 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

through

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by Andrew Martin on Aug 28, 2009 9:11 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

or thru?

by butterfly on Aug 28, 2009 9:15 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Giants or LA

would probably claim Deduno then just to block the trade from going through then huh?

That’s how this stuff works right?

by Resolution on Aug 28, 2009 9:14 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

pretty much

Here’s a quick run down:

Right now we have what’s called a “revocable waiver” period. A team can put a player on waivers. To make a trade now, a player has to “clear” waivers, or go through all the teams unclaimed. If that player is claimed, the team can pull the player BACK off waivers (that’s the revocable part). OR they can try to work out a trade, with the team claiming him. BUT for that to happen the player has to “clear” waivers. He has to go through all teams unclaimed, and the claiming team would also have withdrawal their claim.

Or…the claiming team could keep their claim in…and the waiving team could just waive bye-bye to the player and his contract (Alex Rios)

Once a player goes through waivers, and is not claimed, he can be traded, or just waived (Giambi). If waived, the original team eats the remainder of the contract, minus a pro-rated % of the league minimum. The player is then a free agent, and can sign with whom ever he chooses.

by Redhawk on Aug 28, 2009 9:36 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

We still do

and if he really is DFA..that’s what that period is for…..trading…but he has to clear waivers.

Which Harden didn’t do…..in fact, who ever put in the waiver claim, has to with draw it, and then Harden has to clear all the other teams for the one initialing claiming him to make a trade. OR…the Cubs can let Harden go on the waiver claim, which also gets them out of the contract. The waiver claim, also includes claiming the contract.

by Redhawk on Aug 28, 2009 8:58 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well

he was claimed so the Cubs have until Monday to either let him go, pull him back, or work out a deal. Right? I don’t think the team putting in the claim has to then withdraw the claim to see if no other team wants Harden and THEN they can work out a deal. Or did I misinterpret your post?

If the Twins really claimed Harden, it means all the other National League teams passed on Harden, which although possible seems somewhat unlikely.

by Resolution on Aug 28, 2009 9:13 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

yes

for a trade to happen NOW, Harden has to “Clear” waivers

See long explanation above.

by Redhawk on Aug 28, 2009 9:37 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

That doesn't sound right

Teams put in their claims more or less simultaneously. It’s awarded to the highest priority (for this purpose) team. The two teams can then work out a trade. If another team claimed him but has a lower claim priority, I don’t think it matters when it comes to a trade between these two teams (or the case of the original team allowing the claiming team to assume the contract).

Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!

by FooMan on Aug 28, 2009 9:44 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

What determines priority?

by butterfly on Aug 28, 2009 9:47 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

League and Record, by inverse (ascending order)

So NL > AL in Harden’s case, Nats have priority over Padres. If no NL teams claimed an NL player, then it’s similar, the Royals have priority over the Orioles.

Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!

by FooMan on Aug 28, 2009 9:51 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

you are right

claims are more or less made simultaneously…..but for a trade to happen, the player has to “CLEAR” waivers. if he’s claimed, and the original team has 2 options:
1) pull him off of waivers
2) let him be claimed to the new team

The Claiming team, has a few options as well:
1) keep their claim in, hoping the original team just lets the player go.
2) pull their claim so the player “clears”. The two teams can now work out a trade if the original team doesn’t actually release the player. The claiming team, make the claim some times to let the original team know of their interest.

There is a lot of gamesmanship as more then one claim, may be to block another team.

The main point…is a trade can’t happen until a player “clears” waivers. This period is “revocable” mean you have “take backs”

by Redhawk on Aug 28, 2009 10:00 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

You're description makes it sound like

trades between the two teams—the team placing the player on waivers, and the team awarded the claim—can be blocked by a 3rd team with a lower priority claim. I don’t think that’s the case. I dunno, I had a long discussion with wolfmarauder (I think) on this once, and don’t really care to repeat it, since it’s more of an academic* discussion and I didn’t find sources back then and haven’t improved my googling skills since. However, I never see it reported that multiple teams have put in a claim, and therefore a trade to the team with the priority claim is blocked.

(*Not that this means it wouldn’t be good to get to the bottom of the issue, just that the amount of time I’ve spent on it far outstrips the practical importance of it for me at this point.)

Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!

by FooMan on Aug 28, 2009 10:17 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

No that's very much the case

Any team can block a trade by claiming a player. If I’m GM of say the Rockies…and I know that say the Dodgers want Haren. I could put in a waiver claim on Haren to keep the Dodgers from getting him. The Downside, is I could end up with a broken pitcher and a big contract I really don’t want.

again…the main point…for a trade to happen NOW post the trade deadline, a player has to “clear waivers”. If some team claims him, he did not “clear”. In the case of Haren right now, he can not be traded as a team “claimed” him. One team. A trade can be worked out, however. but part of that working out, would be for the one team making the claim, to withdraw it so the player would “clear”.

The player put on revocable waivers, is not actually released. (this by the way is different then the main bulk of the season) He could be if the team doing so chose to release that player, but usually they don’t.

(just that the amount of time I’ve spent on it far outstrips the practical importance of it for me at this point.)

Me too, it is a very complicated period. It’s hard to explain all the moving parts, and all the choices that can happen.

by Redhawk on Aug 28, 2009 10:30 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Harden, not Haren

Haren = not broken
Harden = very prone to breakage

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by Andrew Martin on Aug 28, 2009 10:59 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Here's what I mean

Example:
1. D-backs waive Haren
2. Rockies put in claim
3. Dodgers put in claim.
4. Rockies are awarded the claim, because of the worse record

How I’m reading your description:

D-backs cannot trade Haren to the Rockies, because he has not cleared waivers completely.

I don’t think this is case. I think once the Rockies have been awarded the claim, the 3 options* are available, regardless of whether another team, or 28 other teams, have put in a claim.

(*the options:
A. original team revokes waivers and “pulls the player back.”
B. original team and team awarded waiver claim [and only the team awarded the claim] negotiate trade in the 48-hour window
C. original team allows team awarded waiver claim to assume player’s contract)

Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!

by FooMan on Aug 28, 2009 11:00 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wait Dan Haren has been waived?

Hallelujah…when do we get him…right now..PLEASE ?

by SDcat09 on Aug 28, 2009 11:04 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

/just kidding... but wouldn't that be nice

by SDcat09 on Aug 28, 2009 11:05 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

It would!

What a great fifth starter he’d make. I bet the Nats would claim him, though.

Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!

by FooMan on Aug 28, 2009 11:40 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

try this one

This article might help you out some

by Redhawk on Aug 28, 2009 10:36 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

from the artical you posted.

If their player is claimed, they can try to work out a deal during a roughly two-day period with that claiming team and if that fails, still pull him back. No harm, no foul.

You do not need to clear waivers to be traded. If a player does clear, he can be traded to any of the other 29 teams for either a prospect not on the 29 man roster or a player who has also cleared waivers.

If the player is claimed, they have two days to work out a deal between the two teams, exclusively. The player may be retained by his original team is no agreement is met. He may be traded to the claiming team, again for a prospect or cleared player. Or the original team may simply give up the player if the claiming team does not offer anything for him.

The player does not need to be put back on waivers for the player to be traded.

by mkorpal on Aug 28, 2009 11:18 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

actually that post was wrong on that account

if it wasn’t for clearing waivers, then any player could be traded after the trading deadline…..and that clearly isn’t the case.

by Redhawk on Aug 28, 2009 4:10 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

You are wrong

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/waiver-wire-primer/

If a player is claimed prior to this deadline, the owning team can either pull their man off of waivers, work out a trade, or do nothing and let the claiming team receive the player. Once a player is pulled off of waivers he cannot be traded for another month. Additionally, you can only be pulled off once; if pulled off and placed back on, the player is fair game.

by mkorpal on Aug 28, 2009 4:39 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

All that clearing waivers means

is that a team can trade him to anybody.

If a player doesn’t clear waivers, meaning he gets claimed, then he can only be traded to that team that claims him.

by Resolution on Aug 28, 2009 5:29 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

and that makes sense

by Redhawk on Aug 28, 2009 6:24 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I thought the same thing.

And then promptly thought it was unlikely, so I don’t get my hopes up. :)

by Squeaky on Aug 28, 2009 9:18 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Seriously

how good would he look in purple, silver, and black, making other batters in the NL West look silly?

by Resolution on Aug 28, 2009 9:30 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

/throws pitch

/grabs arm in pain

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by Andrew Martin on Aug 28, 2009 9:32 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

/throws awesome pitch that counts for two strikes

/arm falls off

by Muzia on Aug 28, 2009 9:50 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm picturing a pitch that curves so much

it actually circles back around the batter and crosses the zone for a second strike

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by Andrew Martin on Aug 28, 2009 9:59 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

you guys are pessimists

/throws pitch
/grabs catcher in jubilation due to world series victory

by Resolution on Aug 28, 2009 10:06 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

then arm falls off from hugging?

by Muzia on Aug 28, 2009 10:07 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

by Resolution on Aug 28, 2009 10:22 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

:)

In my opinion? He’d look great.

by Squeaky on Aug 28, 2009 9:58 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

If only we weren't contending, then we could blood all our AAA pitchers and see which succeed!

by biondino on Aug 28, 2009 9:31 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

ubaldo, marquis and hammel

we’re not exactly running out three weak sisters (hammel on the road being much better).

we could be looking at some LOW scoring games here…

by RockyMtnCat on Aug 28, 2009 9:34 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

yep

and no Molina and no Sandoval for at least tonight

we seem to have gotten over that HURDLE

"TuLoRocks2008 had the most comments I've seen in any game thread this year (322)...Can such a feat be eclipsed?" ..... Bring it on!!

by TuLoRocks2008 on Aug 28, 2009 9:40 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

that really really hurts the giants

their lineup is beyond weak without those two..

by RockyMtnCat on Aug 28, 2009 9:42 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Isn't it amazing

how at this point in the season, every team, is starting to break down. Players are getting hurt, players are looking tired, and numbers are off from where they were in say June.

It’s a marathon…this is the last kick.

by Redhawk on Aug 28, 2009 9:42 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

yep crazy

both teams are falling apart…a battle of the wounded this weekend who will reach back and find a second wind and win the series…GO ROCKIES

we seem to have gotten over that HURDLE

"TuLoRocks2008 had the most comments I've seen in any game thread this year (322)...Can such a feat be eclipsed?" ..... Bring it on!!

by TuLoRocks2008 on Aug 28, 2009 9:55 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Any update on Hector Gomez's injury?

I don’t think we ever got an update after he left yesterday’s game. (In case you missed it in yesterday’s game thread.)

Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!

by FooMan on Aug 28, 2009 9:47 AM MDT reply actions 2 recs

hahahahaha

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by Andrew Martin on Aug 28, 2009 9:59 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Time travel is a risky business

by Muzia on Aug 28, 2009 10:07 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Simers: It's over, as if there were ever any doubt

It’s over, as if there was ever any doubt, at 4:31 p.m. Mountain time, Aug. 27.

The Dodgers have won the National League West Division title. Congratulations to all.

Link, LA Times.

Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!

by FooMan on Aug 28, 2009 10:20 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Um?

by Squeaky on Aug 28, 2009 10:20 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wait

maybe it’s an elaborate trick to fool the Dodgers into thinking the season’s actually over and then they’ll stop showing up to games and then forfeit like the last 30 games of the season.

by Resolution on Aug 28, 2009 10:23 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

there's no comment section on his article

what a fantastic writer

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by Andrew Martin on Aug 28, 2009 10:26 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I've never been able to find a comments section

on the LA Times…especially for the columnists. It would seem they prefer the reader to email the columnist directly. Then they publish the reader’s email in their column, along with their flaming response as to why said reader is an idiot(in the columnists’ opinion) TJ Simers is the WORST of the bunch…can’t stand this guy, even if he hates Manny….

(why do I subscribe to the Times again……oh yeah because the San Diego Union Tribune is fishwrap)

by SDcat09 on Aug 28, 2009 10:42 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, I just finished reading this...

and just laughed.

by SDcat09 on Aug 28, 2009 10:43 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Everyone is so eager to give them the division

as if stating it is a bold declaration, or an intelligent one. Wasn’t there an article just two days ago about the Dodgers being underdogs in everything?

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Aug 28, 2009 10:57 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pride goeth before the fall :)

or something like that…

by SDcat09 on Aug 28, 2009 11:03 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Giambi 0-1, 2BB last night

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by Andrew Martin on Aug 28, 2009 11:09 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

0-2

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by Andrew Martin on Aug 28, 2009 11:09 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wait

Did he just get another plate appearance? ;)

by Rox R Champs on Aug 28, 2009 11:13 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

/shakes fist

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by Andrew Martin on Aug 28, 2009 11:14 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

so are the BB's better than a hit...

/KIDDING!!!

by SDcat09 on Aug 28, 2009 11:12 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not better, just equal

Heh heh.

Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!

by FooMan on Aug 28, 2009 11:41 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Craig Counsell cleared waivers

He’s batting alright, plays plus IF defense….think we’d be interested in the depth?

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by Andrew Martin on Aug 28, 2009 11:15 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

He's better than Q

I’m beginning to think that’s a new PR motto. But seriously, he’d look nice on a playoff roster.

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Aug 28, 2009 11:17 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Signed a $1M extension last season with the brewers

so he’d be like a $170k addition.

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by Andrew Martin on Aug 28, 2009 11:18 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thats not too bad.

I bet it wouldn’t take more than a low end prospect to pick him up.

by mkorpal on Aug 28, 2009 11:20 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

With the recent injuries to the outfield

Picking up Cameron may be a more likely option. It would cost more cash wise, though.

by mkorpal on Aug 28, 2009 11:27 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Cameron is on a 1year/$7M contract with a $1.25M signing bonus

and a $10M club option, $0.75M buyout

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by Andrew Martin on Aug 28, 2009 11:32 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

So, we would be on the hook for about 2 million

Plus about .75 million in performance awards he will match. I doubt the cash exists for that type of a deal.

by mkorpal on Aug 28, 2009 11:38 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't see it happening, either.

Too expensive, and as soon as we have Gonzalez and Fowler back, we’ll suddenly have super expensive Mike Cameron who we’ll want along for the playoffs and not a roster spot for him.

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by Andrew Martin on Aug 28, 2009 11:46 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thats true

Do we have a timeline for Fowler"s return yet?

by mkorpal on Aug 28, 2009 11:48 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Last I heard

He was hopeful to be back in under 3 weeks

Gladly sharing a name with Dexter Fowler!

by ShadowPenguin on Aug 28, 2009 11:49 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

The circle of liiiiiife

Started his career with the Rockies, would be amusing if he ended his career back with us.

He also has won 2 WS, maybe provide some good clubhouse experience in the playoffs.

I can’t complain about this idea.

Gladly sharing a name with Dexter Fowler!

by ShadowPenguin on Aug 28, 2009 11:42 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

hahahaha good work

but I’m just interested in the fact that he can play the whole infield, and he’s a decent baserunner still.

Not a great bat, but he’s putting up league average numbers.

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by Andrew Martin on Aug 28, 2009 11:52 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

How about Jamey Carroll?

I haven’t done the research to see what he’s owed for the remainder of the season, but he’s been hitting well lately and is always solid in the field.

I would be bringing him up even if he wasn’t on the ROCKTOBER™ team.

Just an average guy with exceptional hair. Nothing more, nothing less.

by theoldgrizzlybear on Aug 28, 2009 11:54 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

He is another good option

I think he is still owed 500K on his contract. He has played the outfield this year, so thats a plus.

by mkorpal on Aug 28, 2009 11:59 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

He just seems to be a good luck charm of sorts

Didn’t he score the winning run for the Marlins WS victory?
But yeah, great utility value, good experience, and as PF said above, he’s better than Q :-)

Gladly sharing a name with Dexter Fowler!

by ShadowPenguin on Aug 28, 2009 12:00 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

that's Edgar Renteria

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by Andrew Martin on Aug 28, 2009 12:03 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Renteria got the hit, Counsell scored the run,

Shadow Penguin’s correct.

by Rox Girl on Aug 28, 2009 2:40 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

ah, I stand corrected

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by Andrew Martin on Aug 28, 2009 2:45 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think I was there for his MLB debut

as a PR I believe (v. Cubs maybe?), and didn’t he get traded right away?

by Teekalong on Aug 28, 2009 11:57 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

His Rockies career wasn't much of anything

Just some time in the minors and a handful of appearances before he was traded.

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by ShadowPenguin on Aug 28, 2009 12:02 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

can he pitch?

Patrick Saunders: I think Kruk is lazy.

by Rawktober on Aug 28, 2009 3:21 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

nope, and neither can braden looper is the problem

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by Andrew Martin on Aug 28, 2009 3:24 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'll admit....

…to being a bit worried right now. Not so much because of the Cook injury, but because of the way the offense has stopped performing. So many dead spots in the lineup, so many guys who can be pitched to. Seriously, I’ll be glad to get of SF with one win, but I’m not sure who it could be against.

Talk me down, people. talk me down.

by BroJB on Aug 28, 2009 12:01 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

We have Jimenez and Marquis pitching this series too.

And against the Giants “offense”, we could probably see a shutout. It’s not going to take a lot of runs to win a game or two.

Gladly sharing a name with Dexter Fowler!

by ShadowPenguin on Aug 28, 2009 12:04 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Plus this team is resilient

They’ve been chased by some capable teams and they’ve held them off by winning consistently.

In the 2nd half, they’ve lost 3 in a row once—the Mets series—and they rebounded by going 18-9 (which includes the last two losses, btw). It’s good to remember that the team did this even though lineup still had plenty of dead spots, and over those 27 games, Cook missed a start, and put up a 9.00 ERA in the 4 starts he did make.

If the Dodgers play anywhere near their capability, catching them will be tough. But I have a LOT of confidence the Rockies aren’t about to collapse.

Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!

by FooMan on Aug 28, 2009 12:23 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

heroics last weekend aside, I think the offense hasn’t really been hitting for a while, and we have more than muddled through…Although as I say that if you look at past 7 or 14 day splits the Rockies are still above average in OPS+

by moomacher on Aug 28, 2009 12:27 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

we walk really well

even if we’re not getting hits. I’d rather have more hits, but I’ll take the OBP if it’s all that’s coming

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by Andrew Martin on Aug 28, 2009 12:42 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's asking a lot....

of our guys. DLR pitched well yesterday and we didn’t get runs for him against Padilla at home. Hard to think it’s going to turn out better against Lincecum, Cain & Zito on the road.

Bottom line — some guys had better wake up at the plate and do it soon, or this thing could slip away from us.

by BroJB on Aug 28, 2009 12:26 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Look at it this way...

We have guys getting lots of ABs who are hitting .222 (Stewart & Ianetta), .247 (Barmes), .225 (Atkins) and .255 (Spilly). Plus, the guy who was on fire earlier in the season (Hawpe) has lost 33 points off his average and has hit just 5 HR since the end of June.

At this point, our truly dependable sticks are Helton, Tulo and Smith (and CarGo when he’s back).

Our pitchers have been very good, but are they good enough to carry this team to the playoffs when we’re not hitting? I’m just not so sure right now.

by BroJB on Aug 28, 2009 12:33 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd be more worried if we didn't have a three game lead.

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Aug 28, 2009 12:38 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ask the Mets....

how quickly a multi-game lead can disappear.

I’m not trying to be gloom and doom, I’m just realistic about what will happen if this team doesn’t start hitting. And right now. It’s quite possible we can all wake up on Monday Morning tied with the Giants.

Just sayin’

by BroJB on Aug 28, 2009 12:44 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

the mets???

wtf????

we’re about as far from the mets in mental make up as we are in miles…

good grief…

by RockyMtnCat on Aug 28, 2009 1:04 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not...

making that comparison. I’m simply saying that any thought of cruising home on a 3 game cushion when it’s not even September and we’re not hitting doesn’t really work. Leads disappear all the time. Ours, for example, may well disappear this weekend if we get shut down by Lincecum, et. al.

The Mets are just the most dramatic example of it. But no, we’re nowhere near that situation.

by BroJB on Aug 28, 2009 1:09 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

thanks goodness for small favors

btw, the odds of marquis and ubaldo shutting down the giants are pretty significant…

by RockyMtnCat on Aug 28, 2009 1:11 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

My point is more that

we have a three game lead, and we got there while the offense has been inconsistent. Can it get worse? I suppose, but to say we can’t hold the lead without those players stepping up is inconsistent with the fact that we’ve built the lead under the same conditions. Iannetta, Barmes, Stewart and Atkins’ struggles are not new things. If they actually started hitting, we’d be a better team than the one that built this lead.

Also, in spite of their struggles, we’re averaging 5.6 runs/game this month.

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Aug 28, 2009 1:22 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Point taken...

But the three things that are new are Fowler’s injury, CarGo’s injuries and Hawpe’s slump. And that’s why I’m being a nervous Nellie. :)

by BroJB on Aug 28, 2009 1:47 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ah

CarGo shouldn’t be out more than a couple days, and I figure we have enough depth in the OF to cover one injury. Hawpe is streaky. I guess I’ll be optimistic and think he’s getting his slump out of his system before the playoffs/playoff stretch

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Aug 28, 2009 2:28 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd be more worried if batting average was a true indicator of offensive production

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by Andrew Martin on Aug 28, 2009 12:44 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

So...

….are you making the argument that Atkins, Stewart and Iannetta are productive right now? Are you making the argument that the Rockies are in a good place offensively right now?

by BroJB on Aug 28, 2009 12:47 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think he's saying that

even though these guys are slumping, we’re still managing to punish mistakes by our opponents. We had 2 runs WALKED IN in games this week, gotten on and moved up by errors.

All it really takes is TWO clutch hits this week, and we wouldn’t be having this discussion. We’re on the edge, just a minor slump in key situations.

Gladly sharing a name with Dexter Fowler!

by ShadowPenguin on Aug 28, 2009 12:50 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, but....

we’re not. I think we can all agree that the 14th inning game, for example, had no business getting to the 14th inning. The Rox failed in the clutch again and again.

And again, can you really say that the lack of production from our third basemen, catcher and, now, right fielder are just “minor slumps in key situations”?

If we’re down to hoping for bases loaded walks to win games, we’re really in trouble. :)

by BroJB on Aug 28, 2009 1:05 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

funny how we won the 14th inning game

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by Andrew Martin on Aug 28, 2009 1:28 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

You...

..want to depend on walkoff grand slams to get to the WS? :)

by BroJB on Aug 28, 2009 1:29 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

If every game came down to that

I’d be sincerely concerned.

It’s not however, so I do believe we’re doing fine.

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by Andrew Martin on Aug 28, 2009 1:31 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

You're looking at the team in a vacuum

And not recognizing that other teams are having the same issues you talk about. The Dodgers wouldn’t have let us get as close as they did if they were scoring runs like they should. It’s an issue if there isn’t talent there to be high quality, but that’s not the case with the Rockies. In that case you’ve got to defer to the edge still.

by Rox Girl on Aug 28, 2009 2:43 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is a good point.

I think it’s fair to point out concerns with the Rockies, but other teams have their own issues. Sure, based on the last three days ours hurt us more than LA’s, but anything can happen going forward. And nearly every team around us has their own set of issues. Hopefully some of ours will be solved sooner than later (whether it’s guys coming back from injury, coming out of slumps, stepping up as a fill-in, etc.).

by holly96 on Aug 28, 2009 2:59 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

yep,

what I’m saying is right now our concerns are hurting more than the Dodgers, Phillies and Cardinals, that’s why they’re staying ahead of us, but less than the Giants, Marlins and Braves, which is why we’re staying ahead of them. If one team besides the Rockies gets fixed/lucky in the next few days we should worry, but right now there’s no reason not to assume that the team that’s going to get fixed first is us.

Gonzalez should be coming back before Freddy Sanchez, at this point it seems Fowler might also. Randy Johnson still is on the shelf leaving the Giants pitching a guy that gave up a heck of a lot more runs to Arizona than Josh Fogg gave up to the Dodgers. The Braves just lost a series at home to the Padres, and the Marlins were only mildly successful against Washington. The three games up we have still gives us a relatively safe buffer on all of these teams. We’ll worry a bit if we get swept in SF, but no real need to until then.

by Rox Girl on Aug 28, 2009 3:31 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Stewart? Not really

Iannetta? Relative to his position, yes.

Atkins, I never once claimed was good, and he’s not a starter anyhow (or at least shouldn’t be outside of a straight platoon), so why is he even in the discussion?

But ShadowPenguin made the point I wanted.

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by Andrew Martin on Aug 28, 2009 1:28 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

dodgers offense is HUGELY better than the Giants

and the giants are missing sandoval and molina for at least tonight…

top of the 14th, 0-0… lol

by RockyMtnCat on Aug 28, 2009 1:03 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Look guys....

….I’m not trying to be chicken little here. I still feel good about this team.

But there really is a lot of denial going on about our recent lack of offensive production, particularly in close games. And, as thrilled as we are with the job done by our starters, it’s a bit unrealistic to ask them to carry this team to a pennant on their backs.

Face it, we aren’t getting anything out of some key offensive slots in our lineup, and it’s going to bite us if it doesn’t change.

That’s all I’m saying. But yes, I still have hope.

by BroJB on Aug 28, 2009 1:12 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

who's denying it?

Every single pregame thread and such is saying that our offensive struggles continue and we need more offense, more runs.

If you’re taking “well, we still score 5.6 runs/game” as to be “our offense kicks more ass than anyone’s you’re crazy if you say otherwise” then I’m afraid you may be misreading or misinterpreting the intent.

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by Andrew Martin on Aug 28, 2009 1:29 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bite us how?

It’s not like Iannetta and Stewart’s hitting stopped all of a sudden. They’ve been spotty for most of the season. I doubt many are in denial about the hitting—it’s complained about constantly around here. It’s just that not everyone thinks this dooms us.

Why is it unrealistic to expect the pitching staff to be able to pick up for the bats? Haven’t they done it all year? Haven’t they done so over the stretch when Cook was missing his 1st start and getting bombed in the two that followed?

Are you worried about what will happen in the playoffs? I say get there first, then worry about it. Once you get there, who knows what will happen. The resiliency of this team and the ability to win games like the 14-inning Giants game mean more to me than the head-to-head regular season records. There’s plenty of cases in the playoffs where teams triumphed over teams that gave them a beating in the regular season.

I don’t get your vehemence here. There’s no guarantee. There will always be weaknesses to worry about. In spite of all the failures you’ve pointed out, the team has widened its standings in the 2nd half and took 4 of 7 against the 2 best pitching staffs in the NL.

Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!

by FooMan on Aug 28, 2009 1:30 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well....

…seeing as how I’ve gone out of my way to point out that I still have hope and that I feel good about this team, I ‘m not sure I’m being quite as troll-ish as you make me out. Plus I’ve been liberal in my use of :) which should tell you that I really and truly love each and every one of you.

Now, to my point: The way this team laid down offensively at home against the Dodgers the last two games is probably what sparked this anxiety. That, and the realization that we’re down to two reliable bats in the lineup right now (Tulo/Helton). We just seem a bit too much like easy pickings for good pitchers right now for me to feel truly confident.

Can we hold off the Wild Card contenders with just our pitching? Yeah, maybe. Can we catch the Dodgers that way? Nope, i doubt it. Would all of this become moot if guys not named Todd and Troy started producing more? Absolutely.

by BroJB on Aug 28, 2009 1:42 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

They laid down against Padilla, that's for sure

But Wolf just flat out beat us.

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by Andrew Martin on Aug 28, 2009 1:47 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs

Yeah, we laid down against the Dodgers this week

Not denying it. But at least we lost 2 to the Dodgers instead of the Nationals or Pirates or Padres (Hi Cubs and Phillies and Braves!)

We beat the teams we’re supposed to beat, and fight well against the good ones. That’s all you can ask from a ball club.

And yeah, 2 clutch hits, and this isn’t an issue this week. One hit 5 innings earlier against the Giants, no walkoff GS, no heroics, no sweat.
One big hit yesterday against Padilla, we win 4-3, and this isn’t an issue.

So yes, hope remains as you say, you should just realize there’s perhaps more hope than you’re giving the Rox credit for ;-)

Gladly sharing a name with Dexter Fowler!

by ShadowPenguin on Aug 28, 2009 1:49 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hey...

…I’m all about giving this team credit and allowing for hope. they’re an amazing bunch.

Just want some more hits is all. :)

by BroJB on Aug 28, 2009 1:59 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

More CLUTCH hits!

:-D

We outhit the Dodgers yesterday, but didn’t get runs to back it up. Bump up that RISP average!

Gladly sharing a name with Dexter Fowler!

by ShadowPenguin on Aug 28, 2009 2:01 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

True...

that.

by BroJB on Aug 28, 2009 2:05 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I just want to point out how amusing it is to me

That now we’re all saying “oh crap, CarGo is out a few games, we’re screwed” when only a few months ago the tone was “why the heck is CarGo stealing starts from Smith and Spilly?”.

Gladly sharing a name with Dexter Fowler!

by ShadowPenguin on Aug 28, 2009 12:35 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

and yet, we're STILL barely starting Smith

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by Andrew Martin on Aug 28, 2009 12:44 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

CarGo

was near the mendoza line when people were saying that. He’s now hitting close to .300 with power. So hell yeah it’s a big loss when he’s not in there.

by BroJB on Aug 28, 2009 12:48 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

oh absolutely

It’s more a commentary on the Spills-EYJ-Hawpe OF

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by Andrew Martin on Aug 28, 2009 1:32 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Now...

…to be fair (and because I’m in an inexplicably scrappy mood today), I’ll also point out that those folks who called for CarGo to sit down had a legit point. He was terrible back then.

In other words, everyone was wrong and everyone was right. Except Jim Tracy. he’s pretty much just been right. :)

by BroJB on Aug 28, 2009 1:45 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't see what your point is

Smith = Goodest
Spills = Good
EYJ = ????
Hawpe = ehhhhhhh

Smith should be starting every day.

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by Andrew Martin on Aug 28, 2009 1:50 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I will agree

I’m surprised EYJ took over center, instead of Smith in left and Spilly in center. I understand lessening the learning curve in center, but the timing just feels weird to me.

Gladly sharing a name with Dexter Fowler!

by ShadowPenguin on Aug 28, 2009 1:54 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs