NL West Report: Talent in, Talent out at the trade deadline.
by Rox Girl on Aug 3, 2009 7:30 PM MDT
in NL West Report
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PrintThe good news for competitors in the NL West this week is that none of their rivals added what we would consider a major impact talent at the trade deadline along the lines of a Cliff Lee, Matt Holliday or Victor Martinez, the bad news is that this means that neither did they, leaving the division in pretty much the same state it was last week save for the one team at the very bottom, who did wind up making a very interesting move on Friday. The overall talent flow still seems to be flowing into the division rather than out, however, and the division as a whole still seems to be on the ascent.
NL West Report |
San Francisco (58-47, t-2nd, W2, 7.0 GB)
Last Week: 6-1. 3-0 vs. Pirates, 3-1 vs Phillies. At some point you've just got to forget the projections and say a team is what it is. The Giants really seem to be that team this year, similar to the 2007 Diamondbacks, where they are combining some excellence in pitching with a favorable circumstance or two (in this case a deadly home field advantage) to mask over their flaws. While sweeping a rebuilding Pirates team isn't a huge accomplishment, taking three of four against the defending world champions is. The Giants are a very real threat, but an up and down one.
Pace: 86-76.
Divisional Change: Gained 3.0 games.
This Week:
News: The Giants were the most active NL West squad at the deadline, acquiring Ryan Garko from the Indians in exchange for Scott Barnes and Freddy Sanchez from the Pirates in exchange for Tim Alderson. Both prospects were immediately downgraded by pundits from potential aces to potential fifth starters after the transactions.
Kidding about that last part, sort of. Barnes wouldn't have been a name most Giants fans would recognize, but he's a decent LHP prospect a bit beyond the Keith Weiser level but quite a bit below the Bumgarner level. With Barnes and Connor Graham added to their pitching depth the last couple of weeks, the Indians have put quite a dent on the starting talent in the Cal League's North division. I was curious about the amount of articles downplaying Alderson that came after the trade compared to the hype he was getting before it.
Grant's reactions to both trades at McCovey Chronicles were suspiciously understated:
Clearly something's up with these players that they're not telling us about, like how they wouldn't tell us that Fred Lewis will eat the children of Rockies fans if we let them stay out to late or how Pedro Feliz was able to control the forces of nature of his mind as long as he wore a Giants uniform and the Giants were playing the Rockies. You're not fooling me this time Grant, word to Rockies pitchers: approach these two players like you would Babe Ruth. If Babe Ruth was alive. And not really old.
Players Gained:
- Freddy Sanchez
- Ryan Garko
Players Lost:
- Tim Alderson (AA)
- Scott Barnes (A+)
Arizona (46-59, 4th, W1, 19.0 GB)
Last Week: 3-3. 1-2 vs Phillies, 2-1 @ Mets.
Pace:
Divisional Change: Gained 0.5 games.
This Week: The Snakes wrap up a long road trip with three game series @ Pittsburgh and @ Washington
News: The Diamondbacks had a quiet week leading up to the non-waiver trade deadline, but general manager Josh Byrnes expects August's waiver trade market to be active.
Brandon Webb finally decided to undergo the knife to fix his ailing shoulder, but no timetable has been established for when he is expected to return to the mound. Will the Diamondbacks pick up his $8.5 million option for 2010? Byrnes is taking a wait and see approach.
Steve Gilbert writes that Byrnes' faith in his core is a large part of the reason why the trade deadline was so quiet for Arizona:
"There are a lot of components there that we think are real positives," Byrnes said. "I think a lot of the pieces to get back to winning are already in place."
Certainly Justin Upton has to be a major component that Byrnes is thinking of, AZ Snakepit's Jim McClennan took a look at the elite club the phenom's track thus far puts him in.
The Snakes are negotiating with Daniel Cabrera for added pitching depth
Added Comment: Arizona remains a flawed team for 2010 until it gets the pitching ironed out, but a very dangerous one for 2009. The fact that they didn't sell off at the deadline doesn't leave them nearly as weak as other non-contenders. I'm relieved that the Rockies only have six more games against this team compared to nine for the Giants and ten for the Dodgers, because it really looks like they've finally righted the ship in Phoenix. Over the last thirty games, the D-backs have scored the fourth most runs in the NL in going 16-14. Other key potential spoiler series for Arizona will be in Philadelphia at the end of August and at Chicago for the last series of the season in October.
Players Gained:
- Brandon Allen (AAA)
- Cole Gillespie (AAA)
- Roque Mercedes (AA)
Players Lost:
- Felipe Lopez
- Tony Pena
Los Angeles (62-36, 1st, L1)
Last Week: 3-4. 1-3 vs Cardinals. 2-1 vs Braves. The Dodgers road trip started out poorly against Matt Holliday and the Cardinals, but much like the Rockies, the Dodgers finished well, going over the last four games of the trip, against much tougher competition than we had to face.
Pace:
Divisional Change: Lost 0.5 games to Colorado and 3.0 games to San Francisco
This Week: The Dodgers return home where they will face a Brewers team (3 games) that's been caught in a rut for much of the last two months and then get a four game set against the Braves who will want revenge for losing a series in Atlanta this weekend.
News: The Dodgers had been rumored for much of last week to be in on every prominent trade target supposedly available, and apparently came close to reeling in Adrian Gonzalez and Heath Bell in a mega deal with the Padres. Unwilling to part with prize major league talent such as Matt Kemp and Clayton Kershaw (wisely, I might add, Kershaw's change-up is starting to be as devastating as his fastball and curve) Los Angeles wound up making one major move, trading minor leaguers Josh Bell and Steve Johnson for Orioles closer George Sherrill.
The Dodgers made one other minor depth move to clear a roster space for Sherrill, trading Claudio Vargas to Milwaukee for catcher Vinny Rottino. Rottino actually has an engaging baseball biography, as he was an undrafted free agent out of college and wound up getting signed out of a try-out camp. He caught for team Italy in the WBC this Spring. Still, not going to supplant team Canada's catcher anytime soon.
Even with the Sherrill addition, Los Angeles continues to wage a war against an unseen and unknown enemy as the workload for their young pitching continues to mount. Chad Billingsley seemed like he might be the latest to succumb when he was pulled from Sunday night's start with what turned out to be just a case of leg cramps. Rockies and Giants fans are all hoping this menace proves more real than it has, but that just might be wishful thinking on our parts. Sherrill hasn't been the only cavalry to arrive to rescue Los Angeles' young arms, as both Jason Schmidt and Hong Chi Kuo made returns from long injury absences this week.
Eric Stephen's monthly reviews are always worth reading to catch up on the rest of the Dodgers news.
Players Gained:
- George Sherrill
- Vinny Rottino (AA)
Players Lost:
- Josh Bell
- Steve Johnson
- Claudio Vargas
San Diego (43-63, 5th, W2, 22.0 GB)
Last Week: 5-2. 3-1 @ Reds, 2-1 vs Brewers. Visiting Cincinnati has become a medicinal spa retreat for ailing NL West teams, as the Padres and Rockies combined to go 6-1 against the hapless Reds. San Diego carried their winning ways home with them against the Brewers.
Pace:
Divisional Change: Gained 2.0 games.
This Week: Braves (3 games) fans and Mets (4 games) fans will learn just how easy it is to go into PETCO Park and win series.
News: The Padres traded away their erstwhile ace Jake Peavy to the Chicago White Sox in the trade deadline's most surprising move. Peavy must have felt like Bill Murray in Groundhog Day in getting a chance to change a decision he made two months ago, for whatever reason, the White Sox held more appeal this time around.
Coming back from Chicago are four of the White Sox better prospects in Clayton Richard, Aaron Poreda, Dexter Carter and Adam Russell. This move was typical of other blockbusters in 2009, where the selling team generally walked away with the buying team's quality depth, but not their creme de la creme as far as talent is concerned.
jbox gets oddly, I don't know, pragmatic, in his review of the trade at Gaslamp Ball.
The Heath Bell/Adrian Gonzalez trade to the Dodgers wasn't the only big deadline deal that San Diego was involved in that fell through, apparently there was also a blockbuster that could have send Gonzalez to Seattle, Felix Hernandez to the Red Sox, and a bushel of prospects to the Padres that got nixed by the Mariners. The day was so busy, that Kevin Towers told the LA Times Bill Shaiken:
"It's almost comical," he said. "I wish we had a video camera in there. You tend to worry about everything moving so fast."
Players Lost:
Players Gained:
- Ryan Webb (AAA)
- Craig Italiano (A+)
- Sean Gallagher
- Aaron Poreda
- Clayton Richard
- Dexter Carter
- Adam Russell
- Oscar Salazar
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Sorry everybody if this isn't up to Poseidon's normal standard...
He’ll be back next week, and everybody should really, really appreciate the work he does on these things. They are very difficult to pull together.
You done good.
"Don't tell me about the world. Not today. It's springtime and they're knocking baseballs around fields where the grass is damp and green in the morning and the kids are trying to hit the curve ball." -Pete Hamill
Looks great to me
You left out the This Week for SF and Pace for AZ, LA, and SD, but otherwise, I wouldn’t have done any better. Thanks again for covering for me…
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Aug 4, 2009 3:26 PM MDT up reply actions
I had to vote the Padres for the NL West's big winner
Getting rid of an injured Peavy gave them two pitchers who can be in that rotation now (or replace Heath Bell if he leaves), another solid reliever, and an above average pitching. They also freed up enough payroll to keep the lineup’s biggest weapon, though if they pulled off that Gonzalez/Bell trade to the Dodgers they would’ve gotten even better. Whoever their GM is, (don’t murder me for forgetting) he’s good.
I thought the Dodgers did pretty well with getting Sherrill, but they badly needed an ace because Billingsley/Kershaw just can’t handle the load right now, so they get an Epic Meh grade from me.
The Diamondbacks also get an epic meh from me because they couldn’t move Garland and Davis (I’ll negate that if they are traded in August), which may cost them financially. They should’ve kept Lopez in my opinion: he was above average and wasn’t costing an arm and a leg. Chris Snyder would’ve been good to move because some teams (cough cough Cubc cough cough) really need catching. Byrnes was right in keeping the core together, because the young talent is still there, it just isn’t working out.
The Giants are the biggest fail because 1st base didn’t need improvement because Iswikawa is average with the bat and rainbows with the glove, and last time I checked Uribe was doing just fine at second, so Sanchez wasn’t really needed. They added about 1.0-1.5 WAR for two good pitching prospects and now Bumgarner needs to succeed or that pitching depth in the system=fail.
The Rockies were a great winner at the deadline, addressing their only need (bullpen) with only giving up one legit prospect. They did their job, but they really didn’t wow anyone: they just do what they always do, be solid in trades. They just weren’t the best at dealing in the NL West because of the awesomeness of the Peavy deal from the Padres side.
Ultimate impression: Sherrill will delay the tumbling of the Dodgers this year, but they will ultimately crumble because Kershaw and Billingsley are too young and will need to be put on innings limits causing mayhem in Dodgerland; the Giants tried hard, and they get an A for effort but just like Kershaw/Billingsley, Lincecum/Cain can’t save a team that got worse defensively and only marginally better on offense and they both can’t stop the Rockies because the Rockies just became the most balanced team in the NL West because they finally fixed the bullpen. The DBacks are unpredictable, but thinking about the future Padres now that they freed up a lot of cash and got more talent scares me.
I think I pretty much agree with you on everything.
I just voted Rockies anyway because I’m biased. I thought the Dodgers gave up far too much for Sherrill, as good as he is, compared to what everybody else was giving up talent wise.
Agreed
Bell can flat out mash at times, and while Johnson doesn’t seem to be very special, back end starters are valuable, though I don’t know how his stuff would translate to the bullpen. Elbert or Johnson and Dewitt seems more reasonable for Sherrill, so this probably means that A) Ownership has confidence in DeWitt and B) One of Hudson and Blake are staying around for a while. Sherill is staying in Dodgerland till 2011 though, so that may have accounted for a lot.
I give it to us because...
I’m a homer and I think we lasered in on our specific needs and got value. The Sherill move was good for the Dodgers but just that bit pricey (they went to Saks, we went to H&M.) The Giants hocked some jewellery, drove around and scored some meth. Sanchez for Alderson was a fiend’s play. Pads sold high on Peavy and the snakes did nothing to jeopardize finishing fourth.
I thought SD really won in the trading deadline game...
Peavy won’t help the Padres this year, and he’s been declining/injured. They received some good young pitchers in return that can help right away. They got younger and less expensiver.
But I still voted for Colorado because of these two:
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I agree with the vote for SD.
They fully realized their situation and did a lot to correct it. I’m glad they’re on their way down while we are on our way up.
Seth Smith status: Finally Getting Playing time
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Aug 4, 2009 9:25 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Kevin Towers pulled off a very, very good trade there.
This Poreda guy is supposed to be lights-out. Now their future rotation looks pretty legit. Poreda and Latos could give them a legit one-two punch for years.
"There are only two important things in life: baseball and breathing. But at least you can survive without breathing for 3 minutes."
www.soundclick.com/hollidayrain
by Hollidayrain on Aug 4, 2009 11:24 AM MDT up reply actions
Kudos to the Astros' winning pitcher...
none other than Mike Hampton, with a strong effort tonight.
As former Avs announcer John Kelly would say, “Thank you, thank you, thank you.”
And Alberto Arias...
pitched a scoreless eighth inning for his ninth hold. The slight righty has had a very good season in Houston.
I still wish we'd hung onto him.
Seth Smith status: Finally Getting Playing time
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Aug 4, 2009 9:26 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
...if healthy
Part of the reasoning to let Matsui go was based on his back problems. Looks like a good decision considering he has spent as much time off the field as on. Still love the guy when he’s healthy. One of my favorite Rox moments is his grand slam against the Phillies in the ’07 NLDS – could have heard a pin drop.
"If you're going to be stupid, you'd better be tough."
I agree. Matsui is a great asset to the Rockies even when he is not playing for us.
He’s one player I still respect, even after leaving. The management was at fault for that. However, Matt Holliday, I believe, was not so upstanding in his walk out the door.
Phillies tomorrow!!
I love the comment on Fox's Power Rankings for the Rockies (8)
Dodgers improved a tad. Giants improved a bit. Rockies stayed about the same. Their death knell?
Here’s the link: MLB Power Rankings
Hahahaha
I lot of people are badly overlooking the Rockies bullpen upgrades. Even Sickels missed the Beimel deal at first. At least they show respect with 8 ranking :)
What? East coast media bias?
No way! Nawww, no national media would ever be ignorant of the Rockies. Unpossible!
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
So stupid.
I saw that comment and threw my hands up, flabbergasted. How is addressing your most pressing need by adding two legitimate, talented and experienced major league relievers not ‘improving?’ An MLB exec said that if the Rockies added two relievers, they would be a playoff team.
"There are only two important things in life: baseball and breathing. But at least you can survive without breathing for 3 minutes."
www.soundclick.com/hollidayrain
by Hollidayrain on Aug 4, 2009 11:30 AM MDT up reply actions
Kershaw's showing some rookie inconsistency tonight...
He just walked in a run for the Brewers to tie.
He can be wild at times.
But dominant other times.
by CentralCaliRox on Aug 3, 2009 9:23 PM MDT up reply actions
6-1
Weaver replaced him and promptly let up a 3 run shot to Braun.
6.5 back here we come!
by bballrox4717 on Aug 3, 2009 10:03 PM MDT up reply actions
Yep, at this point in time, you don't really beat him
You let him beat himself. It’s going to be really scary when he stops doing that.
But
the Dodgers and Giants both lost? Are we still a good division
"We made too many wrong mistakes." ~Yogi Berra
"The ballplayer who loses his head, who can't keep his cool, is worse than no ballplayer at all." ~Lou Gehrig
JFK
If you ask me, Yes; if you ask Fox/ESPN/MSM, we don't exist
I would say we’re an even better division since the division leader whose now in our crosshairs, and our primary competition, lose ground to us, without the Rockies having to play. I like that.
The Eastern commenters on that
refused to believe that the West was good, and tried to call out Tracy for favoring his favorite team.
by bballrox4717 on Aug 3, 2009 11:44 PM MDT up reply actions
Both BA and Keith Law knock Alderson for his lack of stuff
specifically from Law, his velocity. I think Alderson’s star dipped when he lost his wingman role. He looked a lot better when you could mention him in the same story with Bumgarner as the two jumped levels together, but when you had to evaluate them seperately, you can see their significant differences (though Goldstein suggested recently that Bumgarner was throwing a very Alderson like 88-89 in a recent start…)
In terms of the ratio of talent acquired to potential talent given up, the Barnes trade could be worse. Shame on any team that must use a prospect like Barnes when they cannot grow their own Garko. Barnes will use that deceptive delivery to log many innings from the 3-5 spots in Cleveland’s rotation while Garko will provide slightly above average product at first base, with San Francisco footing the bill for all three expensive years…
If you’re a Padres fan, you have to like Aaron Poreda coming in to Petco Park. You could almost call him the lefty counterpart to Latos, as he’ll rely heavily on pounding the zone with a hard fastball while hoping to improve his secondary offerings in time for the next contending window. San Diego did well for themselves, but it will tkae many years to see the fruits of their deals.
It's the Padres...
those new pitchers will pass AA and start right away for the big club!
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Hmmm MadBum
was never really a high velo guy though, as recall. Still, nice to see the vaunted Giants pitching depth taking some hits. Do the Rockies now have the best pitching prospects in the division?
MadBum was a high velo guy...
“Was” being an operative term. I saw him at 98 while he played with Augusta. The start David’s referring to he lasted only into the second inning, and lasted only five innings in his next start, and I hear the velocity rebounded a bit into the 90’s but was still off what he was throwing last year and earlier this season. Something’s up, it’s definitely seeming more like a setback for him.
As for best pitching prospects in the division, I think the Rockies probably have a good argument, but so do the Padres now.
Has bumgarner begun to compensate for the velo drop?
Like developing a splitter, a better change, etc? Like Mark Buerhle style? Or is that the kind of thing he’ll want to be doing?
Seth Smith status: Finally Getting Playing time
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Aug 4, 2009 9:32 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Or he might be injured......
Remember how much FrankieMo’s velocity dropped earlier this season?
"There are only two important things in life: baseball and breathing. But at least you can survive without breathing for 3 minutes."
www.soundclick.com/hollidayrain
by Hollidayrain on Aug 4, 2009 11:33 AM MDT up reply actions
To soon to tell
This is just recent, so I think it’s caught everyone off guard, and they’re probably more worried about potential injury.
by David OhNo on Aug 4, 2009 12:09 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
I love this article
http://sullybaseball.blogspot.com/2009/08/nobody-knows-who-big-trade-deadline.html
It’s nice to analyze how great the deals are now, but hold your high horses on declaring the winners and losers until we see which deals paid off.
I think the Giants and Rockies made the biggest improvements – the Giants upgrading some abysmal hitting and the Rockies upgrading an abysmal pen. I think it’s fair to say they both upgraded their biggest weak spots.
The Dodgers needed starting pitching, not more bullpen help, although Sherill is good, so I’d put them in a distant third.
If Poreda develops a secondary pitch (any secondary pitch) he could be very good – but he’s no Jake Peavy. They got several good pitchers, but no great one IMO, so I don’t think this trade was very good. They had to move Peavy, but I’m not that high on Poreda.
Still the loving, adoptive father of Hector Sanchez. And who doesn't love switch-hitting catchers with power and patience?
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