That play that ended yesterday's game
There seemed to be a lot of confusion in the comments as to whether Lugo's run would have counted had he tagged. I've done a lot of umpiring (softball, but the relevant rules are the same) and thought I'd clarify.
First, it's true that a run can't score if the third out is made on the play and it's a force. But a runner failing to tag up is NOT a force, even though you don't have to tag him. A force play, by definition, is when a runner is forced to advance because the batter became a runner. So there can never be a force on a caught fly. (Technically, it's an appeal play.) So if Lugo tags and scores before Pujols is out, his run counts.
In fact, even if Lugo doesn't tag up, if he touches home before Pujols is out his run counts, unless the Rockies appeal that he left early at third. This is known as a "4th out appeal" and would nullify the run. So having failed to tag up, his best bet was to continue home, touch it before Pujols is out, and hope the Rockies leave the field before appealing. Once the entire defensive team leaves fair territory, they can't appeal and his run counts.
Eat. Drink. Be Merry. But the above FanPost does not necessarily reflect the attitudes, opinions, or views of Purple Row's staff (unless, of course, it's written by the staff [and even then, it still might not]).
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30 comments
Comments
Awesome
I always forget about the 4th out appeal, until something like this comes up
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 28, 2009 7:09 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
it was a great play
i was flipping between the Broncos win and caught that awesome play. I hope they get this Wild Card wrapped up soon.
fader nation is a conquered nation
Jerry Jones is Al Davis with a smile!
by mdierk on Sep 28, 2009 9:00 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
The Catch
by 5280 on Sep 28, 2009 10:18 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Sorry
by 5280 on Sep 28, 2009 10:19 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Already has:
"DAMMIT! No, calm down. Learn to enjoy losing." --Hunter S. Thompson
by PioneerSkies on Sep 28, 2009 10:24 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Quote from the DP comments:
Well.
Why should we expect anything else from the Colorado Rockies?
Matt Holliday was out at the plate in the “play-in” game, and now this.
Sure, fine. Bring up the bad calls on the home runs. Whatever.
But the fact remains that the Rockies have now been given two games based on horrible calls on the last play of the game.
The Atlanta Braves are, by all rights, only down 1.5 games. But the paper standings won’t show it.
Huston Street blew the save. But on paper, it doesn’t show.
The simple truth is that the Rockies never earn anything. They never, ever win anything without controversy. They will always have one of these: * next to everything they do.
The Padres got jobbed, and now Atlanta/St. Louis.
Barmes KNOWS he didn’t catch the ball clean. He KNOWS it. If he had any sense of decency, he’d admit it straight out. But then, he’s a Rockie. Rockie player don’t play fair. They have zero sense of sportsmanship.
There are dumb comments from the DP commenters, and then there are comments that make me actually angry. “The Rockies never earn anything”? “Rockies players don’t play fair”? Isn’t it, like, well known that the Rockies have one of the most inviting and well-respected clubhouses in the sport? I’ve never heard a single player come to Colorado and say that he hated playing here. The Rockies, unlike this poster, are a class organization.
…gah, sometimes people make me unreasonably upset. I wonder if he/she is a pissed off Padres or Cardinals fan?
"Admirably obsessive." - Uni Watch, March 24th, 2009
NA34 | HK | RMN
by oo_nrb on Sep 29, 2009 1:42 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree with everything you said
and the poster is oblivious to the games when the umpires clearly gave US the shaft (Lassogna at 1st AND home plate). We’ve also been shafted by the instant replay on at least 2 occasions, one being Tulo’s would-be grand slam and the other being Hawpe’s homer
by Jay Doubleyou on Sep 29, 2009 4:11 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
And you know they're not going to respond to anything either
Sure, fine. Bring up the bad calls on the home runs. Whatever.
Only the questionable calls that benefitted us matter.
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 29, 2009 7:23 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
That comment nearly made my head explode
Some of the comments you see on the DP are unreal.
by avsfan4ever33 on Sep 29, 2009 8:30 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's what we'll do
I’m going to go through every close or questionable play that the 2006 Cardinals were involved in (no I won’t) and I’m going to assume that the play worked against the cardinals, and that the next batter hit a home run.
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 29, 2009 9:11 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
That comment was one of the ones that instigated my above comment
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Sep 29, 2009 9:29 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reading and responding to these people isn't good for you.
Just ignore them if possible.
Eschew Obfuscation!
by Jeff Aberle on Sep 29, 2009 9:33 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I seriously think this is a self loathing thing
I read these because I hate myself.
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 29, 2009 9:42 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree...
such an exercise is completely counterproductive.
by moose14 on Sep 29, 2009 10:15 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not entirely
It makes me feel smart. Angry, but smart
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Sep 29, 2009 10:45 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
This makes me sick!
BREW THE BREWERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GET TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by prettyinpurple on Sep 29, 2009 5:23 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I almost hate readin the post, but what else am I supposed to do?
Thank God for Purple Row!
BREW THE BREWERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GET TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by prettyinpurple on Sep 29, 2009 5:24 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
why would you let this incite you
I think it’s rather hilarious that somebody gets so worked up about a game that they make ridiculous accusations like this. think about how twisted and miserable this guys life must be if he actually believes all that. Like I posted on that blog, I humorously imagined him either crying, screaming, or tripping on acid when he wrote that.
by nugg on Sep 29, 2009 6:43 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Since when
is baseball the same as golf, where “decency” and honesty somehow matter? Seems to me that I’ve never in my life seen a catcher tell the ump that the crucial called strike three was really a ball, or the 1B tell the ump that really the runner beat the throw, or the SS say “you know, blue, I missed that tag.” Come on. Umps make the calls. They are wrong A LOT, in fact the umpiring in baseball is starting to approach NBA levels of horrifying ineptitude. But whatever, them’s the rules, and them’s the breaks. We got one, so be it. Quit crying and play some ball.
by Teekalong on Sep 29, 2009 11:36 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
We should stone Hawpe for deking Felipe Lopez in the first inning yesterday on the Braun double off the wall
It was so dishonest
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Sep 30, 2009 9:01 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just to mention
The ‘fourth out’ rule raised its ugly head against Arizona in a game earlier this year against the Dodgers.
Andre Ethier was at third base, Juan Pierre at second, and with one out, Randy Wolf lined out to pitcher Dan Haren, who threw to second baseman Felipe Lopez, who tagged out Pierre off second base for the apparent third out of the inning.
But by the time Pierre was erased, Ethier had crossed the plate. The D-backs left the field without making a play on Ethier at third base, which would have been the fourth out of the inning.
But as the teams changed sides, plate umpire Larry Vanover walked over to third-base umpire Charlie Reliford, apparently to discuss the play, which Dodgers bench coach Bob Schaefer pointed out to manager Joe Torre, who went out to appeal.
After an umpire huddle, Vanover ruled that the Ethier run counted, even though Ethier had not tagged up, because there was no appeal at third base. Even though a play at third on Ethier would have been the fourth out of the inning, it would have taken precedence over the third out because it would have erased a run.
"Win, or die" -- Marquise de Merteuil
by Jim McLennan on Sep 29, 2009 11:27 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I remember this
4th outs are awesome
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 29, 2009 11:43 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dan Haren might argue with you on that. :-)
"Win, or die" -- Marquise de Merteuil
by Jim McLennan on Sep 29, 2009 12:13 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
That must have doubled his ERA
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Sep 29, 2009 12:42 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
right, because the outs other than the catch was a force out(to simplify). While chasing the base runners around, any runs before the 3rd out is recorded will count on the same play. While you can appeal that Either left early, which they should of done.
by Jester76 on Sep 30, 2009 2:21 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
tom boswell had one from the cuban leagues
bottom of the 9th, some important game, scored tied…
bases loaded, no one out, shot to the gap in right.
right fielder makes a spectacular diving catch.
runners on first and second had taken off…
throw back to the infield, outs recorded on both baserunners – 3 outs!!!
oops, runner at 3rd had tagged and crossed the plate before the final out was recorded
run counts, game over – winning run scores on a triple play!!!!
or not – losing team appeals that the runner on third left the base too soon….
i’m totally serious here, how could you make this up…
the appeal literally went to castro – and i can’t remember how he ruled – not that it matters…
triple play, winning run scores, quadruple play – either way, it’s something that could only happen in baseball!!!
watch this space for a soon to be created clever remark....
by RockyMtnCat on Sep 29, 2009 4:01 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
wow!
BREW THE BREWERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GET TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by prettyinpurple on Sep 29, 2009 5:25 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
So was it a quadruple play?
There’s that comedy routine they play on the Bob and Tom show where Jesus Christ hits a bases empty grand slam.
“the appeal literally went to castro – and i can’t remember how he ruled – not that it matters…”
Castro also offered to oversee the Florida recount in our 2000 presidential election, but the offer was declined.
There was a nice novel by Tim Wendel, “Castro’s Curveball.” I recommend it.
by Sky Sox on Sep 30, 2009 6:40 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

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