Quick thoughts on a Tuesday: Cargo vs Holliday
by Andrew Martin on Sep 8, 2009 11:00 AM MDT
in Counting Rocks
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PrintThat's right, friends, you're getting a double dose of Counting Rocks this week....assuming I can finish tomorrow's article...
Anyhow, a poster on another messageboard I frequent brought up the issue of the Holliday trade, and used WAR to justify it for the Rockies. The obvious caveat was "we'll have to see how Wallace and Gonzalez pan out" and then Cardinals fans took over the discussion from their angle. I figured I couldn't let this stand, as Holliday was OUR player, so I ran a bit of analysis on what Holliday has provided for the Cardinals as compared with what Gonzalez has provided for the Rockies.
The question stands: Was it a mistake to trade Matt Holliday in the first place?
Click past the jump and we'll take a look at what we've come up with.
The thing we're forgetting is who we have replacing Holliday. When you consider how good Seth Smith has been, that adds to the value of the trade, sort of.
Given that Fuentes was undoubtedly leaving, and Holliday had no intention of reupping with the club, we'd be talking about Corpas closing and singlehandedly costing us probably 4-5 games in the standings, and then getting hurt. Street's been nearly invaluable, obviously not just because of saves, but his 2.82 WPA, 2.29 tRA, and goofy ass smile. Also "Hate Me Now" by Nas. Greg Smith has been an excellent paperweight in AAA.
Also, while we lost Holliday, we gained 5 freaking years of Carlos Gonzalez. I don't know what to expect out of him going forward, but I do know that he's bumped his season line to .299/.372/.549/.396. Holliday's season line is at .315/.394/.528/.394. Seth Smith, in limited/platoon/PH/grossly unappreciated duty, has batted .318/.406/.573/.419. I figure we can lump Smith and Gonzalez together, as they've had to share duty, what with Fowler in CF.
Since Aug 1, Gonzalez has batted at a level of 13.5 wRAA (weighted Runs Above Average), Holliday 19.1. Gonzalez has also played outstanding defense in LF and about average in CF (per UZR), and UZR basically hates Holliday in LF (-3.4 UZR in LF as a Card). (I know it's kind of faulty to just look at a month and change, but if we're gonna evaluate Holliday, we really can only do it as a Card, and so we'll just look at Gonzalez from the same date). I want to combine Smith and Gonzalez for August, because despite their firey bats, they had to split time in some way shape or form. Only issue here is Holliday has 141 PA to Gonzalez' 116 since Aug 1, but adding Smith to Gonzalez bumps you up to 206 PA, so a direct comparison gets a bit tricky.
So instead we'll evaluate on a per-PA scale. If we look at Gonzalez + Smith for August, and just Gonzalez for September (as Fowler's been dead so both Smith and Gonzalez have been starting), Holliday's posting a .1073 RV/PA (Run-Value per Plate Appearance, above Average), while the convoluted Smith/Gonzalez platoon thing posted a .0836 RV/PA. Factor in defense and I'd argue it's a wash.
Basically, Smith + Gonzalez >= Holliday in my opinion/evaluation, and then Street on top of that, because there's no way we are where we are without him.
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It should be noted
that this discussion is not about skill, it’s about production. No, Seth Smith is not going to be a career .800 hitter. This is just looking at what they’ve DONE, whether it be sustainable or not.
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Key points in favor of Cargo
He’s young, and as you mentioned, under control for the next 5 years, and hands down a better defensive outfielder. There is just so much potential upside, if he can retain some of that newly learned plate discipline going forward. I think he can easily be a 20/20 guy (20 HR/ 20 SB). That combination of power and speed is extremely valuable.
I do think it’s interesting to add Smith and Street into the equation to really evaluate how the Holliday trade has paid off or cost each team (as amoeba pointed out in an earlier fanshot). Another interesting way to look at this is to compare the Cards’ outfield (with the addition of Holliday) with the Rox in terms of value. Yeah, the Cards definitely got better offensively (there was no way to go but up) with Holliday, but he’s just one player. Now compare that with our outfield…
yeah, you're absolutely right
I just did a little exploration with the numbers in a vacuum without looking at anything like lineup effects. Hawpe would be playing RF whether LF was manned by Holliday or Smith or Gonzalez, etc.
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 8, 2009 11:39 AM MDT up reply actions
Holliday trade
= uncharacteristically idiotic for the A’s
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
I'll have to look up the details of the trade
Which I don’t remember off the top of my head, but my recollection was that it was a fair trade overall, based on what I read. Kinda also goes with Billy Beane’s overall philosophy (given Oakland’s financial constraints): develop talent with low overhead. With that said, St. Louis has a better chance of winning right now, but it comes with with a pretty significant price tag, which may have longer term effects.
I think he meant between COL/OAK
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 8, 2009 12:14 PM MDT up reply actions
Yeah.
The Holliday to the Cards trade was a good one for the A’s, but they took a net loss on the original Holliday trade.
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
well sure
But you can’t exclude the cards deal in evaluating the trade with the Rox Brett Wallace might be a star and they wouldn’t have him without holliday. I know it can get complicated when you go too far down the butterfly effect path, but you have to know the possibilty of flipping holliday for different prospects was in beanes mind from the get go
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Sep 8, 2009 1:20 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Sure.
The A’s got 4 months of Matt Holliday and Brett Wallace, while giving up Carlos Gonzalez, Huston Street and Greg Smith. (Anyone else?)
That’s a net loss, as far as I’m concerned. And while we’re at it, remember that to even get CarGon and Smith, they had to give up… what? 3 years of cost-controlled Danny Haren?
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
you really leaving alot out, its not that simple
for haren they also got brett anderson, chris carter, aaron cunningham, and dana eveland. eveland sucks and is rotation filler, just like greg smith, but those 3 other players are legit
A’s dont miss smith at all. They had reasons to trade street (health and money). Heck, from what i remember rockies werent automatic to keep street either until corpas got injured. Replacements for street was supposed to b devivne or ziegler. Bailey has turned into one of the best closers in mlb, plus they ended up getting wuertz and breslow relievers for nothing through other deals. Bullpen isnt an issue with or without street.
by Asfan4ever723 on Sep 8, 2009 10:53 PM MDT up reply actions
I wasn't
intending on breaking down the Danny Haren trade. (If you read on, you’ll see I did that elsewhere)
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
"uncharacteristically idiotic"?
How ‘bout Andre Ethier for Milton Bradley? How about Dan Haren for…who even remembers who?! How ’bout the fact that the A’s are in last place? When the A’s do well (which hasn’t been for some time now), Billy Beane’s a genius, making the most of what little resources he has. When they don’t…well, that’s just because he’s financially constrained. ESPN went as far as to say Billy Beane needs to GO to a team that is in contention! I’ve heard people say that PLAYERS needs to go to contenders, but isn’t the job of the GM to MAKE the contenders?
Maybe I’ll understand sabermetrics someday, and when I do, will then understand the constant praise that BB seems to get…
Firstly, aren't you a Dodgers fan?
Secondly, please try to at least make a rudimentary attempt to learn sabermetrics before getting into this debate.
Finally, Dan Haren was traded for Brett Anderson (a pitcher who’s rated the 19th best prospect in MLB right now), Carlos Gonzalez (awesome 5 tool OF prospect who went to Colorado in the Holliday deal), Greg Smith (who was a member of the A’s’ starting rotation last year, and also went to Colorado for Holliday), Dana Eveland (who started a number of games for the A’s last year before being DFA’d), Aaron Cunningham (another top-rated OF prospect), and IF Chris Carter (who’s currently raking in the PCL… hit 3 HRs in a game against our AAA affiliate about a week ago).
That’s quite a haul for one SP.
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
yeah, I'm a Dodger fan, but
since we’re all talking about Billy Beane, I figured it doesn’t matter who I root for. Sorry, but I really don’t get Billy Beane’s mass appeal, nor sabermetrics’. You’re right, I DON’T understand it. Walks? Ok, fair enough. But how ‘bout the rest of the stuff? Seems like more effort than it’s worth.
As for Beane, ok, so maybe he’s done SOME good. But come on- they’re making a MOVIE about him? For WHAT? Maybe I’d be more sympathetic if he could win a pennant, let alone the World Series. Articles like this drive me nuts: http://nymag.com/news/sports/games/58180/index1.html
I think the movie got scrapped
and I guess as long as one isn’t in the position of rostering a major league team, sabermetrics are more effort than they’re worth. That said, this is fun stuff. Lastly, Beane hasn’t been perfect but he’s hit more than he’s missed and there are a fair amount of GM’s worse than him who still have jobs.
The Rockies need some oldschool purple/white striped high socks. The team’s problem is it’s lack of swagger. I feel strongly that these socks will provide the swagger necessary to tap the potential that are the Rockies.
This is my biggest beef with the ANTI SABR people ever
The A’s aren’t lousy because SABRMETRICS DONT WORK.
The A’s were good because they were able to use Sabrmetrics to value players of different skillsets, and they were able to target and draft people who the big money teams might not have been.
And it paid off. Prior to the past 3 years (including 2009), the A’s had a run of 8 straight .500 or better teams (2 in the .600’s) including 5 playoff appearances with 1 ALCS appearance.
But now, the Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs, Dodgers, whoever, they’ve all gotten into Sabrmetrics too. So now the competitive edge that Beane had (identifying players who displayed value by the advanced metrics) has now been adopted by every other club. Sure, people still love their ribbies and batting average, but they understand the importance of OPS and the like now. So while Adam Dunn is still underappreciated, he’s not going to slide through the cracks to Oakland anymore, he’s a known commodity.
So LOLL SABRRR FALED is an absolutely ignorant and obtuse stance to take, because by simply saying that, you don’t understand what Billy Beane was attempting to do.
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 9, 2009 1:22 PM MDT up reply actions
Sorta Kinda Related...
There’s a common link between Holliday and Cargo: Scott Boras is their agent. Seems to me that this will play out again when Cargo is a FA.
ah, but not for 5 years
rather than 1!
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 8, 2009 12:20 PM MDT up reply actions
Very true.
Which, given all of Cargo’s potential upside, yada yada yada, could/should be factored into the equation, which I think DBSkins was alluding to.
Seems as Boras is the agent
for about 90% of all players. Soon he will be head of the Players Association.
I just hope in 5 years...
That Boras is taken down from his pedestal. Something like an federal indictment for “investment fraud”, etc. might do the trick
Or, you can view Boras as trying to get players what they're worth
As long as being a FA is the only way to get a max salary, why shouldn’t players push it? I’d rather see a ballplayer pocket the cash than an owner.
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
Because sometimes...
following Boras blindly can backfire. More than once (though not often, admittedly), a Boras client has lost out by pressing FA in a bad economic situation.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
This goes a lot deeper than that
We could spend literally hours on this particular topic alone, with no perfect answer. But IMHO, this is the biggest issue in baseball – even bigger than PEDs. I agree that good/great players should be compensated well. But as much as I love baseball, I can’t subscribe to the point of view that the cream of the crop are worth the kind of 10 year/$300M we’ve seen. It’s insane. So now you’ve limited the number of teams from 30 to about 5 or 6 that can afford to dish out that kind of cash.
I’m well aware that past performance is no guarantee of future results. We need look no further than 2001 when DOD nearly broke the bank with Neagle/Hampton. It shouldn’t have to be this way. And smaller market teams shouldn’t have to settle for second-best either.
Boras is essentially the poster child for why I think we need to find some way to manage over-bloated salaries. Yep, he’s doing his job, and he’s doing it well. But in the end, it’s the fans who end up losing, either through pricier tickets, or massive disappointment when a player doesn’t live up to that in-the-clouds contract, or both. All for a kid’s game (that I admittedly am passionate about). Not that I want the owners cashing in and withholding from the players either, but there needs to be some middle ground where everyone, including the fans, get something out of it.
SALARY CAP!!
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
It will never happen
There’s a reason why the MLBPA is far stronger and superior than the unions in the other major sports, and it’s no coincidence that football, basketball, and hockey all have salary caps.
The NBA union decertified itself because half the players bailed during the lockout. The NFL players union? Pshaw, they don’t even have guaranteed contracts. And don’t even think about the NHL players union, for all intents and purposes, it doesn’t exist.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
The NFL does have guaranteed contracts.
You just have to know which part is guaranteed. (Namely, signing bonuses) As for the backloaded “salaries”, well, they’re just for agents to compare penis sizes.
The MLBPA could probably be persuaded to agree to a salary cap by being offered some of the same concessions the other leagues grant — a sliding pay scale for draft picks, a requirement that a certain % of revenues be returned to the players in the form of salaries, the allowance for a single “franchise player” whose salary doesn’t count against the cap, etc. Perhaps monetary penalties for teams that don’t fill up their allotment of salary.
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
Maybe not a salary cap, per se
Not that the NHL is a great example, but it fits the bill as to why salary caps don’t necessarily work. There isn’t enough wiggle room with a salary cap to pay your superstar/great/good players what they deserve along with the journeyman players that you also need to have. A bit part of that is pure economics – the NHL isn’t able to generate the same level of revenue or fan support like the MLB. But… the NBA and NFL also institute a salary cap which seem to work OK.
One answer might to put real “teeth” in MLB “Luxury Tax”: With the current system, teams that exceed a specified threshold ($162M in 2009; $170M in 2010) have to pay between 17.5 – 40% of the amount over the threshold. For big-market teams, this isn’t a big deal. It’s just the cost of doing business. Add to that, $162M is insanely high when you consider that the average team salary is around $88M.
Just for fun (it probably wouldn’t fly): For each $1M over an established salary level (average previous year’s salary + 20%), the team loses a draft pick. Right now that’s the equivalent of 2.5 players at league minimum. First of all, it doesn’t arbitrarily deflate FA salaries based on a pure salary cap. It also doesn’t set an arbitrarily high/low salary cap – there’s plenty of wiggle room for large market teams to spend. But, it puts the onus on the team to decide to pay now or pay later – buying expensive FAs may help you win now, but you sacrifice your farm system later on.
Again, it probably will never fly. But I think it puts pressure on big market teams to consider sustainable growth vs. buying pennants at inflated costs year after year
just imagine
If Greg smith was a hammel-strength fifth starter for us this year
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Sep 8, 2009 1:43 PM MDT via mobile reply actions
we'd....still have Aneury Rodriguez?
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 8, 2009 2:05 PM MDT up reply actions
haha funny guy
While true, I mean how the trade would look now
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Sep 8, 2009 4:21 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
ohhh right
I was gonna say “uhhhh….we’d have 2 Jason Hammel’s?”
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 8, 2009 4:22 PM MDT up reply actions
Even without that, it might be one of the best trades in Rox history.
If Greg Smith somehow pulls it together and is needed, it could be even better. Huston Street has been a savior and CarGo a true beast.
"There are only two important things in life: baseball and breathing. But at least you can survive without breathing for 3 minutes."
www.soundclick.com/hollidayrain
In the future,
the Dbacks should only trade top prospects to other teams with the stipulation that they are NOT traded back into the NL West. (CarGon, JDLR, etc.)
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
when was DLR a top prospect
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 8, 2009 3:16 PM MDT up reply actions
.... um..... err...
since responding to this question has the potential to make me look stupid, I’m going to ignore it and instead respond with a picture of a cat general:
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
by DbacksSkins on Sep 8, 2009 3:49 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
That's the one.
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
GENERAL MEOWSENHOWER!!!!!
The Rockies need some oldschool purple/white striped high socks. The team’s problem is it’s lack of swagger. I feel strongly that these socks will provide the swagger necessary to tap the potential that are the Rockies.
The thread asks "The question stands: Was it a mistake to trade Matt Holliday in the first place?"
How can it possibly be a mistake when Matt said he was going to test the free agent market? That one’s a non-brainer. You’ve got to move him. My problem with the move was the timing. But with the production of Street and Carlos, I’m even ok with that one now.
All the other stuff about who the A’s got from StL and on and on have nothing to do with the original question. And I think big time props go to DOD for the return he got for Matt. This will end up being DOD’s best trade, followed closely by the deal to get Marquis.
"I've had pretty good success with Stan Musial by throwing him my best pitch and backing up third." - Carl Erskine
You don't "got" to move him.
If he leaves, you get compensation.
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
Well, in my opinion "you've GOT to move him".
Putting your stock on the compensation angle has a lot of holes in it in my opinion. Too much uncertainty and who knows when you’d see a return?
"I've had pretty good success with Stan Musial by throwing him my best pitch and backing up third." - Carl Erskine
True.
I suppose it depends on a team’s recent draft history.
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
Oh, you mean
some like Greg Reynolds?
Me, I’ll take a known commodity over two unknown one’s any day…
The oxen are slow, but the earth is patient.
by rockieprogress on Sep 9, 2009 12:36 AM MDT up reply actions
Known commodities
are also more expensive.
Like I said, it DOES depend on how well your team drafts. For our part, I’ll take the comp picks, because here’s our 1st round history:
2003 – Conor Jackson (out with Valley Fever) and Carlos Quentin (would be starting for White Sox but injured)
2004 – Stephen Drew (starting)
2005 – Justin Upton (starting)
2006 – Max Scherzer (rotation member)
2007 – Jarrod Parker (rotation member for next year, after recovery from injury)
2008 – Daniel Schlereth (current member of bullpen)
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
The Value
was getting two ML quality players who help you now. Both have been very instrumental all year and especially Cargon since mid July. Other than the first week, Street has been steller. Is this more than what they would have received with two sandwich picks? Highly likely. This team stands to have the greatest single one season in victories in franchise history. Has played more consistent over a longer period of time than all Rockies teams ever (save the 95 team in a strike shortened season).
I felt Holliday should have been moved in mid 2008 when the Rocks were faltering. I think more value could have been had collectively. In hindsight kudos to O’Dowd for a shrewd and solid move and obtaining what he got.
STL is harboring under an a false illusion that they can resign this guy. Boras wants to put this guy out there for bid and figures the Mets`, Cubs, Yanks and BoSox will drive the bidding up. The Mets are woeful and need help to pack seats in a new stadium, The BoSox have seen Bay drop off in the second half. The Cubs have seen Soriano evicerate LF all year, and the Yanks are always a player.
by PinchHitLancePainter on Sep 8, 2009 4:05 PM MDT reply actions
There's a piece not being looked at here
Holliday has always cited how he wanted stability, and to win. He’s been traded twice in less than a year. Meanwhile, St Louis appears the class of the National League.
I expect there is no way he joins the Cubs, and the Yanks aren’t going to overpay for him, not after their attendance this year not being what they expected in their new park (remember, they had to cut ticket prices inseason).
He’ll still get his money, no doubt, but there is every reason to believe it will end up being with St. Louis.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
I feel like StL is riding the razor's edge
that one injury and their goose is cooked, that their players are bound to regress or something.
based on nothing at all, mind you. Just a gut feeling.
Well it’s based on “I have no faith in Skip Schumaker and Ryan Ludwick” and despite his stellar season, Chris Carpenter is still made of Balsa Wood.
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 8, 2009 4:29 PM MDT up reply actions
Will he get the
$80m 4 years offered here? Not likely. STL has a pretty high payroll already around $90M. Pujols is at $14M and Carpenter $13M. I assume the Glaus $12.3 goes away after this year. Does Holliday exceed Pujols/Carpenter and then you renegotiate Pujols. Signing him will push the payroll for STL into the $105-110 range. STL management has never been too free with the wallet. They have an interesting situation on their hands.
Then again Holliday has subjected himself to a crash course in Baseball Economics this year and may be ready to sit for a discount. STL is a great place to play. Probably best and most loyal fans in all of MLB.
I still think Boras is going to take this guy to market.
by PinchHitLancePainter on Sep 8, 2009 4:29 PM MDT reply actions
It should also be noted that StL's past expenditures that succeeded
were incredibly lucky, in the forms of Chris “Surgery” Carpenter, as well as Isringhausen, Edmonds, Rolen, others.
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 8, 2009 4:31 PM MDT up reply actions
Here is why
Then again Holliday has subjected himself to a crash course in Baseball Economics this year and may be ready to sit for a discount. STL is a great place to play. Probably best and most loyal fans in all of MLB.
Just two months ago, pundits were saying he’d have to settle for an Adam Dunn-type contract.
Clearly now, that’s not going to happen, but he’s probably going to accept less than “pie in the sky” numbers at this point. Maybe three years, $55m? Who knows?
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
I still say he gets more than that
The Yankees attendance is down, but you forget that their ticket prices are WAY up. and they have lots of money coming off the books. Other teams will need a corner OF, too, such as the Red Sox and Angels.
Teams would jump on 3/55 and 4/80 in a second, as the # of years and total value is so low compared to past FA deals.
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
Didn't STL
extend and increase Miller and Franklin salaries in the last week or so as well?
by PinchHitLancePainter on Sep 8, 2009 4:38 PM MDT reply actions
Maybe I missed this in the article or the comments section
or maybe it’s taking it too far, but couldn’t another factor be added to this evaluation – the money we saved by not paying Holliday this year – where did that money get reallocated and what value for better or worse has that bought?
The Rockies need some oldschool purple/white striped high socks. The team’s problem is it’s lack of swagger. I feel strongly that these socks will provide the swagger necessary to tap the potential that are the Rockies.
Also,
good stuff as usual RMN.
The Rockies need some oldschool purple/white striped high socks. The team’s problem is it’s lack of swagger. I feel strongly that these socks will provide the swagger necessary to tap the potential that are the Rockies.
thanks
I kind of dodged the pure payroll issues. They obviously are in play, but I chose to just go off of player performances, because if we lose the NLDS and save $10M or lose the NLDS with Holliday, we lose the NLDS….if that made sense.
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 9, 2009 1:26 PM MDT up reply actions
Some of that presumably went towards being able to pick up Marquis
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
holliday was a fraud
i’m just going by what i saw in his 4 months in oakland. The A’s brought him in to be the centerpiece of a potentially contending team, at least an above avg one. Some will say mcgwire screwed up his batting stance by dumping the leg kick, but either way personality wise he just looked lifeless, expressionless, going through the motions type player. Was he ever like that in colorado? Either way, he shouldve sucked it up since he was still getting paid 10+ mill/yr. Some w ill also say getting back to the NL has help him, but while in the AL teams attacked him with good fastballs and he couldnt adjust for whatever reason.
On the rockies side, i’ll give Huston Street credit. He basically lost his closers job in 08 to devine/ziegler. Probably might have been moved on again if not for the corpas injury. I also read a slight adjustment on the pitching rubber changed everything for him. For whatever reason, A’s pitching coach last yr suggested the same thing, but street refused. At the time, personally I thought Greg Smith was the more of a loss since he was a decent bet to eat up innings as a solid back rotation lefty.
There's a lot of things to think about
1. Holliday was moving into a league he’d only seen in interleague. There’s a LOT of adjustment to do.
2. The Coliseum swallows power hitters whole.
3. He was still a 3.0 WAR player in Oakland. Most definitely a dropoff, but not a black hole.
Mike McCoy Status: FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Seth Smith Status: Bludgeoning Baseballs
Chris Iannetta Status: OH MY GOD GET SOME HITS YOU'RE MAKING ME LOOK LIKE AN ASS
Check out the most recent MLB Transactions on MLB Daily Dish
by Andrew Martin on Sep 9, 2009 1:30 PM MDT up reply actions
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