2010 SBN Hall of Fame Results Announced
by Russ Oates on Jan 4, 2010 12:00 PM MST
in Miscellaneous
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PrintBack in December SB Nation Baseball writers submitted their ballots for a mock Hall of Fame election. With the actual MLB announcement only a couple of days away, it is time for SBN Baseball to make their announcement. Fifty-two ballots were submitted, making 39 votes the threshold to make the Hall of Fame. Only one player reached that number and with plenty of votes to spare. This pitcher finished 27th all-time in wins with 287 and 5th all-time in strikeouts with 3,701. He threw 242 complete games and 60 shutouts. He finished in the top 10 for AL Cy Young four times and made two All-Star games. He is also the most famous Dutch-born baseball player. SBN Hall of Fame voters selected Bert Blyleven as their first inductee for their virtual Cooperstown.
Here's how the voting went:
| Player | % Vote | Total Votes |
| Bert Blyleven | 92.3% | 48 |
| Roberto Alomar | 73.1% | 38 |
| Barry Larkin | 63.5% | 33 |
| Tim Raines | 53.8% | 28 |
| Mark McGwire | 51.9% | 27 |
| Edgar Martinez | 48.1% | 25 |
| Alan Trammell | 40.4% | 21 |
| Andre Dawson | 32.7% | 17 |
| Lee Smith | 26.9% | 14 |
| Fred McGriff | 25.0% | 13 |
| Dale Murphy | 17.3% | 9 |
| Jack Morris | 13.5% | 7 |
| Don Mattingly | 11.5% | 6 |
| Harold Baines | 7.7% | 4 |
| Dave Parker | 3.8% | 2 |
| Kevin Appier | 3.8% | 2 |
| Ellis Burks | 1.9% | 1 |
| Ray Lankford | 1.9% | 1 |
| Shane Reynolds | 1.9% | 1 |
| Not receiving votes: Andres Galarraga, Pat Hentgen, Mike Jackson, Eric Karros, David Segui, Robin Ventura, Todd Zeile | ||
You can view everyone's ballot here, including mine (the only one from Purple Row).
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Comments
How do Shane Reynolds and Ray Lankford get a vote but the Big Cat doesn't?
If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there is a man on base.
The Reynolds vote
came from a Houston blogger.
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by Russ Oates on Jan 4, 2010 12:32 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Homer!!!!!
I wonder if Bud Selig will give the Yankees a receipt with their World Series purchase
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 4, 2010 12:42 PM MST up reply actions
I can't believe cat didn't get a vote
Aside from everything else, hit frikin’ 399 homers!!!!!
"There are only two important things in life: baseball and breathing. But at least you can survive without breathing for 3 minutes."
www.soundclick.com/hollidayrain
by Hollidayrain on Jan 4, 2010 12:44 PM MST up reply actions
51.9% for McGwire?
Really?
I wonder if Bud Selig will give the Yankees a receipt with their World Series purchase
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 4, 2010 12:42 PM MST reply actions
You mean you think it should have been more or less?
Without the steroid scandal, McGwire’s a slam-dunk Hall of Famer. Some people think he should be in regardless of the steroid issue.
by controlled_slide on Jan 4, 2010 12:44 PM MST up reply actions
Way less
Like zero. That’s probably me though. I have no tolerance for steroid users
I wonder if Bud Selig will give the Yankees a receipt with their World Series purchase
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 4, 2010 12:47 PM MST up reply actions
That's fair
And I happen to agree. I was just curious which side you were on.
by controlled_slide on Jan 4, 2010 12:48 PM MST up reply actions
I don't want to take my kids to the hall of fame some day and
have to explain to them why someone who cheated the game was there.
Say yes to 10 teams in a division and 6 teams in the playoffs.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 4, 2010 12:55 PM MST up reply actions
Yeah, like Gaylord Perry
/Devil’s advocate
by controlled_slide on Jan 4, 2010 12:58 PM MST up reply actions
Agree
But I can live with spitballs more than steroids for some reason.
Say yes to 10 teams in a division and 6 teams in the playoffs.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 4, 2010 1:03 PM MST up reply actions
It's a question of degree
There aren’t (and weren’t) a ton of spitballers, so it’s not as if a huge proportion of players have an unfair advantage. Also, it’s not seen as a substantial advantage, so there’s not as much furor. No one knows how much steroids help, but, anecdotally, we see a bunch of guys (McGwire, Bonds, Sosa, Ramirez, Ortiz, Clemens) put up historical numbers prior to being strongly suspected of or caught using steroids, and it seems that steroids constitute a marked advantage, so there’s a greater uproar about them.
Also, I suspect that the fact that you weren’t around when Perry was spitballing, while you were when Bonds was ‘roiding also may have something to do with it. Perry’s a fun, quirky historical character who managed to bend the rules, while Bonds was a surly, easily-hated character whom you saw go from a skinny, speedy hitter to a monster in a decade.
by controlled_slide on Jan 4, 2010 1:12 PM MST up reply actions
What will be interesting is when Bonds comes up for HOF consideration
(I don’t think McGwire will get in) If Bonds doesn’t get in then a precident has been set and voters probably won’t allow other steroid users in. But if Bonds gets in then they all probably get in. I think it’s going to be all or nothing and I think the key is in the Bonds vote.
Say yes to 10 teams in a division and 6 teams in the playoffs.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 4, 2010 1:21 PM MST up reply actions
dude, way back in the day, everyone was juicing the ball
Purple Row: Take this personally
http://www.youtube.com/user/rockiesmagicnumber
by Andrew Martin on Jan 4, 2010 1:53 PM MST up reply actions
Like before it was illegal?
Because I’m not sure that it was that prevalent after that.
by controlled_slide on Jan 4, 2010 1:56 PM MST up reply actions
doctoring the ball has been going on like perpetually
Purple Row: Take this personally
http://www.youtube.com/user/rockiesmagicnumber
by Andrew Martin on Jan 4, 2010 2:33 PM MST up reply actions
But not large-scale
Nor perpetually. Maybe a guy doctors a few pitches in a few games. If you’re on steroids, you’re always on steroids.
by controlled_slide on Jan 4, 2010 2:40 PM MST up reply actions
that's not true either
you can be using and not using. They don’t just sit in your system forever.
Purple Row: Take this personally
http://www.youtube.com/user/rockiesmagicnumber
by Andrew Martin on Jan 4, 2010 2:41 PM MST up reply actions
But the strength you gain is there always
Or at least until you stop using or working out. You can’t choose not to be stronger for a game or two, then be stronger when you think you need it.
by controlled_slide on Jan 4, 2010 2:43 PM MST up reply actions
fair enough on that
you’re not “always on steroids” though
Purple Row: Take this personally
http://www.youtube.com/user/rockiesmagicnumber
by Andrew Martin on Jan 4, 2010 2:56 PM MST up reply actions
No, but you're always benefiting from their effects
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
are you though?
Say you use one season, and then stop using. Are you still benefiting? I’m pretty sure you aren’t.
Purple Row: Take this personally
http://www.youtube.com/user/rockiesmagicnumber
by Andrew Martin on Jan 4, 2010 3:00 PM MST up reply actions
Well, not *permanently*
However, say you use steroids over one offseason while you workout heavily and bulk up.
As long as you continue to work out at that rate, you’re going to retain the benefits of having taken those steroids to get you to that muscle mass level in the first place, at least long after the steroids were actually taken.
No, it’s not forever, but even as some of the instant benefits are given back, it’s not as if your body returns to it’s pre-roid state all at once.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
Maybe not
But that year’s stats would be suspect, and that’s much more than the one or two games if you were doctoring the ball.
by controlled_slide on Jan 4, 2010 3:59 PM MST up reply actions
52% of SBN writers love PEDS
Is how I can’t help but read that ballot. Is that really an example they want to set?
It's not the one I want to set
Say yes to 10 teams in a division and 6 teams in the playoffs.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 4, 2010 6:21 PM MST up reply actions
I think McGwire will get in at some point.
The Hall of Fame isn’t ready to set it’s foot down on what to do with HOF players who juiced. I do agree Big Mac, a clean Big Mac, is an easy choice on paper but until he comes out and in his own words clears the air at least a little bit, he won’t get in.
I think there will be two variables that will affect the timing of when (if ever) McGwire gets in:
1) What ends up happening when Barry Bonds’ name is on the Ballot.
-To be honest, I don’t like the idea of his Macy’s Day grill on a bronze plaque, but if he’s left out, that means baseball will have it’s all time Hits and HR leaders basically banned from HOF consideration. Obviously there has to be justifiable reasoning for those decisions, which there is for each player respectivly, but it’s just bad for the game of baseball to be in the position where they have to lock out some of the greatest players, not to mention all-time leaders in two of the biggest historical statistic categories, to play on the field because of the severity of the decisions they made off the field.
2) If any player already in the HOF reveals to have juiced in his career.
-I hope this never happens and damages the game. But the ever-so-intelligent Jose Conseco came out and said he played with a current HOF that he knew was juicing. First things first, I hate Jose Conseco, anybody who truely loves this game hates Conseco, except for possibly Ozzie Conseco i suppose, and the thing I hate the most about him is that, even though he has done all of this steroid press and Celebrity Boxing (just had to remind everybody how desperate the man is for money) to garner media attention in his corner, he has apperead to be truthful. I wish he was wrong the first time he named Giambi, Pudge and Palmeiro (to name a few) but he turned out being proven correct. Given not only the timeline of Conseco’s career, but also the location of the his teams, I look and honestly start to wonder if Ricky Henderson was clean, watching highlites from his playing days, it’s mind blowing to see just how much more physically dominant he was compared to everyone else on the field. He spent a lot of years in Oakland and obviously played with guys who made the decision to shoot up.
I can envision a story of that caliber putting a lot of pressure on the ballot results as more and more players from the steroid era starting appearing on the ballot, resulting in guys like Big Mac and probably Giambi receiving much more support and getting voted in.
If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there is a man on base.
Point # 2 is excellent
That would be a game changer. The other big factor is where the next Commissioner’s stands on PED. Selig seems asleep at the wheel to me.
Say yes to 10 teams in a division and 6 teams in the playoffs.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 4, 2010 1:46 PM MST up reply actions
Selig doesn't want to touch this issue with a 60 ft 6 in pole
he’s more motivated and eager to get to his retirement then a 16 year old is to getting their drivers liscence.
If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there is a man on base.
If he was that eager
he would not have signed yet another extension as commissioner a year or two back
JFK
Just to ruin your simile
I waited 7 months before starting driver’s ed just because I was so lazy and didn’t care that much.
Foxes are naughties
Jack Morris didn't get much love....
But that being said, I DO think Blyleven and Alomar will make it this year.
"There are only two important things in life: baseball and breathing. But at least you can survive without breathing for 3 minutes."
www.soundclick.com/hollidayrain
Blyleven had better
if he gets locked out because OMG THrEEHUNNERTWINZ I’ll hit somebody
Purple Row: Take this personally
http://www.youtube.com/user/rockiesmagicnumber
Dude, there's a huge difference between 287 wins and 300 wins
He just wasn’t good enough to get there. Hall of Fame pitchers are. Simple as that.
by controlled_slide on Jan 4, 2010 1:57 PM MST up reply actions
I'll simple you
/ban
Purple Row: Take this personally
http://www.youtube.com/user/rockiesmagicnumber
by Andrew Martin on Jan 4, 2010 2:34 PM MST up reply actions
that is to say that a blood vessel popped out of my forehead when I read that
you’re lucky you’re just trolling me
Purple Row: Take this personally
http://www.youtube.com/user/rockiesmagicnumber
by Andrew Martin on Jan 4, 2010 2:40 PM MST up reply actions
That's ridiculous logic
By that measure, if Roberto Clemente finished with 2985 hits then he just wouldn’t have ever been viewed as being on the same level as those who finished with 3000 right?
If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there is a man on base.
he's messing around
Purple Row: Take this personally
http://www.youtube.com/user/rockiesmagicnumber
by Andrew Martin on Jan 4, 2010 2:42 PM MST up reply actions
Dangit
I was gonna keep going with it. But then it might have gotten inappropriate.
by controlled_slide on Jan 4, 2010 2:44 PM MST up reply actions
Well Don't I Feel like a Horse's Patoot
haha im sorry controlled i thought you were serious. i had an argument with a fan at coors last year after rj won his 300th and the guy wouldn’t change his approach that tom glavine wouldn’t have been a HOF if he didnt reach 300 and that RJ only would have gone in because of his K’s. Its insane how some people use a number as a standard line.
I find it amazing that a pitcher with 242 CG’s, not wins but COMPLETE GAMES, takes this long to get his name through the ballet, especially with today’s voters because so many writer’s problems with pitchers are their inabilities to go deep in games.
If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there is a man on base.
Oh, I agree
Blyleven definitely deserves the hall. I was just trolling RMN. He’s really easy to troll.
by controlled_slide on Jan 4, 2010 4:02 PM MST up reply actions
YOU'RE REALLY - SHUT UP
Purple Row: Take this personally
http://www.youtube.com/user/rockiesmagicnumber
by Andrew Martin on Jan 4, 2010 4:34 PM MST up reply actions
God I hope this is a level
…and I think it is.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
It means you *must* be kidding, no?
Blyleven was sick, but often played for really really bad to mediocre clubs.
Blyleven pitching for the Dodgers over the length of his career probably ends up with 330-340 wins.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
I figured
I had just never heard that term.
by controlled_slide on Jan 4, 2010 4:02 PM MST up reply actions
Russ, why did you leave Raines off?
You voted for both Dale Murphy and Andre Dawson, so you must not be against outfielders from the 80’s. Murphy and Dawson both hit more home runs than Raines did by a fair margin, but neither had an OPS+ as high as Raines. Most of Raines’ value came from his OBP, which was 40 points higher than Murphy’s and 60 points higher than Dawson’s. Also, Raines actually had more walks than strikeouts by a decent margin. Murphy had nearly twice as many K’s as BB’s, and Dawson had a ratio approaching 3:1. And then there is the baserunning: Raines is fifth all time in steals, and had a marvelous success rate of 85%. Dawson was decent, but nothing exceptional.
I’m not necessarily attacking your choice of Dawson and Murphy, I am just curious why you omitted Raines.
I was five minutes away
from putting on the ballot. Just didn’t think long enough on it.
NEVER SURRENDER DREAMS
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.
One thing I don't understand
A lot of people say a “clean” McGwire would be a dead cert cinch for the HOF.
Okay, so here’s the question. Why does anyone presume a steroid-free Mark McGwire would have piled up anywhere near the HRs and IBBs and OBP that a roided up McGwire did?
Seems to me that by the time of his injury plagued seasons in ‘93 and ’94, his career resembled Dave Kingman’s more than it resembled Henry Aaron’s. Okay, so that’s a simplification, but by accounts, he’d been roiding in various forms his entire MLB career. So how many of those 225 dingers he hit by the age of 28 were tainted? Prior to the end of the ‘94-’95 strike, he’d had two full seasons where his OPS was above .880.
I just don’t see how you can separate McGwire’s candidacy from steroids at all.
This is especially so if Bonds is kept out, because most people acknowledge that Bonds was a very likely HOFer even before his head became the size of a small town.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
I do not doubt the OBP for a second
or at least very close
but the SLG would be definitely nerfed
Purple Row: Take this personally
http://www.youtube.com/user/rockiesmagicnumber
by Andrew Martin on Jan 4, 2010 2:57 PM MST up reply actions
Well, he did have a good eye and didn't swing at a lot out of the zone
But if he’s not capable of hitting 60-70 dingers a year, he’s getting a LOT less IBBs.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
true enough
but even without his IBBs he still walked at a superhuman rate
Purple Row: Take this personally
http://www.youtube.com/user/rockiesmagicnumber
by Andrew Martin on Jan 4, 2010 3:01 PM MST up reply actions
Yes, but high walk rates in a vacuum don't mean a lot
When combined with .BAs of .260, .231, .235, .201, and .268 over that same stretch in his 20s when he was walking at such a rate. Hence his OPS rates over those year that were quite nice, but hardly HOF-worthy.
I’m not trying to dismiss his accomplishments of that part of his career, but given his 20s numbers, and the natural decline that would have resulted without ‘roids (and remember, he’d just missed nearly two full seasons), there’s no way his likely natural career progression would have hit HOF benchmarks.
And this is even presuming he did not do roids in the early years of his career…and this is a statement that, according to Canseco, would definitely NOT be accurate. As much of a douche as Canseco has been (and still is), a lot of his allegations have actually proven true.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
minus IBBs
His career line appears as such:
.264/.374/.593/.967
That looks Hall-Of-Pretty-Good to me
Purple Row: Take this personally
http://www.youtube.com/user/rockiesmagicnumber
by Andrew Martin on Jan 4, 2010 3:12 PM MST up reply actions
Now turn "x" number of those home runs into flyouts
Considering he exceeded 42 home runs exactly once prior to the age of 32, when even power numbers should be declining (historically), if you allow him 42 dingers during ’96, ’97, ’98, and ’99, that means you reduce his career HRs by 77 (so he still has 506 career HRs), and turn them into flyouts…what does that do to his .BA/.OBP/.SLG/.OPS line?
Yes, assigning him 42 dingers a year during that stretch is arbitrary, but given normal biological decline at those age years, there’s no every reason to believe he would not have hit more than that his age 32-35 years, when he’d done so exactly once previous, when he was 23 years old (and still likely roided up even then).
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
but the problem also is that were he not a stone cold slugger
would those homers have been flyouts or gappers, you know?
Purple Row: Take this personally
http://www.youtube.com/user/rockiesmagicnumber
by Andrew Martin on Jan 4, 2010 3:58 PM MST up reply actions
Well, hence the "comparison" with Dave Kingman
Kingman was a stone cold slugger with low batting averages, who ended up around 500 career HRs. I’m thinking he didn’t specialize in “gappers”.
McGwire had a much better batting eye than Kingman.
I’d be more inclined to beleive McGwire would have hit more gappers if a significant number of his dingers were CarGo Lazer Beam-styled shots, but they weren’t.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
Where did you get those numbers?
Baseball Reference has him at .263/.394/.588, with 150 IBB. Taking out IBBs makes him .263/.382/.588 – no change to BA or SLG.
by controlled_slide on Jan 4, 2010 4:15 PM MST up reply actions
166 IBB
Purple Row: Take this personally
http://www.youtube.com/user/rockiesmagicnumber
by Andrew Martin on Jan 4, 2010 4:36 PM MST up reply actions
nm
double counted the OAK/STL trade year
Purple Row: Take this personally
http://www.youtube.com/user/rockiesmagicnumber
by Andrew Martin on Jan 4, 2010 4:37 PM MST up reply actions
I agree that a "clean" McGwire probably wouldn't have put up Hall of Fame numbers
But the point is that, if you ignore the steroid allegations, his raw numbers are huge.
by controlled_slide on Jan 4, 2010 4:07 PM MST up reply actions
Fair Enough
The only reason I ever say “Clean McGwire” is it makes me think of his build early in his career compared to when he became the real life version of Juggernaut from the X-Men Comics. It’s like looking at a Bonds, Sosa, or Giambi RC, it’s like the juiced versions of them just straight up devoured and doubled their old bodies.
If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there is a man on base.
McGwire pre 1994 strike body....
….was like Giambi’s post ‘roids body. He was a big big guy. He didn’t so much grow mid-career like Bonds.
But then, Canseco says he and McGwire were on roids together back in the mid 80s, which if true, would explain it.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
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