Wednesday Rockpile: Holliday and Boras get their payday from Cardinals; Hall of Fame announcement today, RJ retires
Troy Renck says that everybody except "some fans and writers" became winners when Matt Holliday signed with St. Louis for seven years, $120 million yesterday. Holliday won because that's a boatload of money, ditto for his agent Scott Boras, who did eventually get the Heltonesque contract he was seeking from the Rockies for the left fielder. The Rockies won because they didn't have to pay that boatload of money, the Cardinals won because they get Holliday and Renck wins because he can do the "You're wrong, nyah nyah nyah" dance to Tracy Ringolsby.
Personally, I don't buy the everybody wins except some fans and writers scenario. Yes, Holliday and Boras win, and this yet again shows that the agent can still come through for his top clients. In the last two seasons we've seen him use the Orioles as a particularly effective stooge for both Mark Teixeira and Holliday to drive up the final payout. Yes, the Rockies win for all the reasons Renck states.
According to FanGraphs, last season, the Rockies wound up getting 26 runs of value above average from their left fielders, while Holliday gave them 46 RAA in 2008. The $15 million plus difference in salary between Holliday and the Rockies who will play left in 2009 is justified if the difference remains two wins. The problem is that it's not likely to. Holliday dipped to just over 33 runs of value in 2009, and will turn 30 just over a week from now. This brings me to the fact that there is a loser besides some fans and writers in this shakedown, and that's the team that committed to signing the player for too many years at a superstar rate.
Matt Klaasen at FanGraphs agrees with me, while the Cardinals fans at Viva El Birdos have a good handle on the situation as well, although they come down in agreement with Renck that it's good for their club. It's a good deal for them right now, but three or four years down the road, it's going to start to hurt.
One thing we do know, the Holliday signing is immediately limiting the ability of the Cardinals to address other team needs, and with a prospect pipeline that's basically run dry after graduating Colby Rasmus and trading other young chips to acquire Holliday and other players last season, the Cardinals will be more reliant on fix-em-up free agent projects when it comes to filling holes (lucky for them their pitching coach Dave Duncan does well with those). Mid-season acquisitions should also be expected to be second tier.
*****
In a separate article, Renck provides some more details on Chris Iannetta's contract with the team, as that became official. The Rockies have really become sort of formulaic with that option year that can get voided if the player gets traded, and I've yet to see that detail really catch on with other teams. Actually, I haven't seen too many other teams locking up their young players at all this winter, with Franklin Gutierrez' impending deal with the Mariners and Kelly Shoppach's deal with the Rays being two notable recent exceptions. Still, it only seems a handful of teams are getting these deals done at all.
The Shoppach deal with the Rays is interesting to compare given that Tampa also offered Dioner Navarro arbitration and the Rockies gave a starting catcher level pursuit to free agent Yorvit Torrealba before taking a small step back to settle with Miguel Olivo. It seems that several smart teams are protecting their backstop investments from the usual wear and tear of the position by doubling up on them. This gives another reason to wonder about the direction of the Dodgers.
Thomas Harding in a mailbag is saying that Jason Giambi could be coming back to the Rockies next season, as there apparently isn't a lot of interest in the slugger outside Colorado right now. The big issue with Giambi is that few NL teams have the roster space to carry a DH on the bench, and I really don't know if the Rockies do either. Signing Giambi would almost have to preclude signing a right handed corner player who could sub for either Todd Helton or Ian Stewart, and as fun as the idea of having that late game threat that Giambi provides all season, the team would still be really vulnerable to left handed pitchers.
The Hall of Fame results will be announced shortly. We'll probably put up a new post for that.
We know of one sure fire HOFer five years from now. Longtime Rockies nemesis Randy Johnson announced his retirement.
Adam LaRoche turned down the Giants offer of 2 years/$17 million, and apparently they've cooled on pursuing him.
Former Rockie Bobby Keppel was released from the Twins. For fun, I took a look at the four game threads that he pitched in for us all in late April of 2007. Then I remembered that it wasn't so fun. That was very much in the bad part of 2007.
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I think only Baltimore is left for him
so I don’t quite get it either. We don’t know the details though, he could be turning it down for a reason other than just the dollar amount.
Brilliant!
Meant both sarcastically and emphatically. Why LaRoche turned that down is mind-boggling, but that it was the Giants, I’m good with that
Wow
Maybe he wanted years over $$? still…..wow
"There are only two important things in life: baseball and breathing. But at least you can survive without breathing for 3 minutes."
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I honestly
Kinda reminded me of Bull Durham
When he tells Nuke LaLoosh to hit the mascot, and then he tells the guy at bat not to dig in :)
Already brought up
Geez Maria, don’t you read every one of the 382 mostly off-topic posts in yesterday’s thread before you post?
by controlled_slide on Jan 6, 2010 10:25 AM MST up reply actions
Wasn't
Indiana Goat enough for you…I just can’t make you happy can I….
the time between the season ending and spring training makes me feel dead inside.
I have been picking on you a lot lately haven't I?
And I feel bad about that. Really bad.
by controlled_slide on Jan 6, 2010 10:52 AM MST up reply actions
Somebody make a fanpost
entitle it the “Congrats, you’re one of the greats, now get the hell out of my division” and we can reminisce about the Big Unit. Make sure to tag every team he’s played for in the fanpost.
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 6, 2010 10:28 AM MST up reply actions
exxcellent
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 6, 2010 11:13 AM MST up reply actions
I would just like to express my amazement that I appeared in all four of the game threads during the Bobby Keppel Era. I was much younger then. I’m older than that now.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
I read somewhere that for each game Holliday misses due to injury, Bill Dewitt gets to punch Scott Boras in the throat.
No, Actually I didn’t read that.
"I clearly miscalculated how popular it would be to show Calvin urinating on a Ford logo"--Bill Watterson
by frightened inmate #2 on Jan 6, 2010 10:40 AM MST reply actions
hahah I love it
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 6, 2010 11:14 AM MST up reply actions
Random question
Why is BABIP different on baseball reference and fangraphs? Is there multiple ways of calculating it?
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf." - Tug McGraw after being asked if he liked grass or Astroturf better.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 6, 2010 10:41 AM MST reply actions
I'm torn this morning
on how much of a grudge I want to hold against Matty. I guess now he’s no longer a mercenary, he did the best thing for his career and his family and is set for life playing for one of my favorite baseball clubs.
On the other hand, he gave up a lot of money and the chance to be a God in Colorado just for the chance at more money.
How does everyone here feel about Holliday this morning?
ROCKEFELLER!!!
Probably pretty similar to you
A little disappointed that he (essentially) chose not to be on the Mt. Rushmore of Colorado spors heroes (though, of course, not entirely his choice), but overall I still cheer for the guy (except when he’s playing us) and I’m happy that it all seems to have worked out pretty well for him.
Would have been great to have him for his career like Helton
but wasn’t realistic financially for a team like the Rockies. I think St. Louis is a great fit for him and he’ll get to be in a lineup with the best hitter in baseball. I’m very very glad he didn’t wind up in NY or Boston.
Teekalong nails it
Actually, you nailed it. I don’t really begrudge Holliday anything at all, he played the FA game to the best of his ability. And the fact does remain that he’s now locked in until 2016 (or 2017), whereas even with our offer, he would only be signed until 2013. So he did well by his family.
And in the long run, as in the next five years, the Rox will probably actually be a better franchise overall that it would have been with Holliday & Helton contracts on the books, at least as long as CarGo continues to develop and impress.
But I just can’t help thinking it was all very unnecessary, given that the $ per year is really no different than we offered two years ago, and while Holliday will always be the fans’ 2nd fiddle in St Louis, he could have been an all time Colorado sporting legend.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
I'm still bitter
he sent the messages that he was leaving years ago.
Don’t get me wrong, hurray for the return, but I’m not a big fan of his anymore.
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 6, 2010 12:09 PM MST up reply actions
Sellout
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf." - Tug McGraw after being asked if he liked grass or Astroturf better.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 6, 2010 12:43 PM MST up reply actions
when they come to Coors next year
I will still probably applaud him. I can’t boo Matty.
ROCKEFELLER!!!
I wouldn't cheer or boo him
I’m mad enough not to applaud him but I don’t think I would boo him.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf." - Tug McGraw after being asked if he liked grass or Astroturf better.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 6, 2010 1:05 PM MST up reply actions
i am
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 6, 2010 2:14 PM MST up reply actions
I'll probably still cheer him respectably next season
He did bring us some great memories. I’m def bitter about those comments though, and it feels good knowing that we’re a better team even without him.
"There are only two important things in life: baseball and breathing. But at least you can survive without breathing for 3 minutes."
www.soundclick.com/hollidayrain
I would've done the same thing..
if I was him. His family is set for their next 5 generations. They’ll probably be on MTV in a couple decades.
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What do you mean he's set for the next five generations?
What can you buy with 120 million dollars that you can’t buy with 72 million (or whatever the other offer totaled to)
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf." - Tug McGraw after being asked if he liked grass or Astroturf better.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 6, 2010 5:56 PM MST up reply actions

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by Andrew Martin on Jan 6, 2010 6:30 PM MST up reply actions
What is that?
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf." - Tug McGraw after being asked if he liked grass or Astroturf better.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 6, 2010 7:02 PM MST up reply actions
Psyduck.
Don’t you know your Pokemon?
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Nope
I was like the only kid who didn’t have any
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf." - Tug McGraw after being asked if he liked grass or Astroturf better.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 6, 2010 7:06 PM MST up reply actions
/still plays Pokemon
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With who
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf." - Tug McGraw after being asked if he liked grass or Astroturf better.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 6, 2010 7:09 PM MST up reply actions
No one.
Just the latest version of the video game.
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I should have known :-)
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf." - Tug McGraw after being asked if he liked grass or Astroturf better.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 6, 2010 7:11 PM MST up reply actions
I have the world record speedrun of Pokemon Red on my hard drive.
by Greg Stanwood on Jan 6, 2010 7:13 PM MST up reply actions
Was it done
on a Gameboy or an emulator?
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Gameboy.
They recognize games run on emulators as a separate category.
by Greg Stanwood on Jan 6, 2010 7:51 PM MST up reply actions
1 hour, 59 minutes.
Record for blue is 1 hour, 26 minutes.
by Greg Stanwood on Jan 6, 2010 8:14 PM MST up reply actions
It means that I'm baffled by what you posted
because it was like a comment on a different issue. Charlie said “His family is set for the next 5 generations” meaning that the next 5 generations of Hollidays probably won’t need to work very hard because they’ll have the Holliday Fortune to provide for them.
So your response, first of all “What do you mean he’s set for the next five generations?” seemed like just a silly question, but then the followup of “what can you buy with 120 that you can’t with 72” just didn’t relate to the first part at all, because what does Holliday having his family financially set for the next 5 generations have to do with what he can buy with an extra $48M and trying to even formulate a response made my head hurt, therefore,

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by Andrew Martin on Jan 7, 2010 10:00 AM MST up reply actions
I just don't like it when athletes turn down outrageous sums of money to pursue
even more outrageous sums of money. I guess I read it as, “well now that Hollidy turned down the Rockies offer, went on a tour of a few cites and signed with the Cards he is set for 5 generations”. I just fail to see how anyone would give up the chance to become what Holliday could have become if he stayed in Colorado for a chance at more money (when you are already getting payed 72 million). That led to my "what can you buy with 120 million dollars that you can’t buy with 72" question. I wanted to understand Holliday’s thought process because he will never be what he could have been in Colorado in St. Louis because of Pujols’s presence. Even if Pujols walks, Holliday still won’t have the history of being brought up with the Cards and therefore can’t become quite what he could have with the Rockies.
Also, I don’t want to put words in Charlie’s mouth so if this is not what you meant by “I would have done the same thing” than I apologize.
"They fired me for being too old. I'll never make the mistake of turning seventy again." -- Casey Stengel after being let go by the Yankees
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 7, 2010 12:29 PM MST up reply actions
it was really just square peg round hole
in how the title and the comment didn’t fit, it made my brain hurt a little
I agree with the sentiment
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 7, 2010 2:04 PM MST up reply actions
It was a good deal for Holliday..
According to the US Tax Brackets, Matt must pay 35% of his income to Uncle Sam making the deal worth $78 million after taxes instead of only $46.8 million.
Also, the Cardinals will be deferring $2 million per year without interest. Which leaves Matt with only $9.8 million per year after taxes. Professional athletes have a short window for earning money, so I am glad Matt got this amount for him and his family.
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For over $100 million you can buy these things...
The George W. Bush Presidential Library
and
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HAHA
OK, which one of these things do you think Matt wanted soooo badly that he couldn’t take the Rockies contract?
"They fired me for being too old. I'll never make the mistake of turning seventy again." -- Casey Stengel after being let go by the Yankees
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 6, 2010 11:23 PM MST up reply actions
I'm guessing the Bush library..
because his kids really like crayons!
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I feel like this quote from Sal Baxamusa sums it up
Sal Baxamusa (the only author I can find for this is Sal, but it sure feels like a Rox Girl piece) from THT 2009 preview,
“Holliday is a unique talent a multidimensional offensive force who will continue to hit at an elite level any place he plays. On the bad side – and it hurts to say this about a player who generally leaves everything on the field – I think he gave up on the Rockies in the end of 2008. I doubt he will for Oakland in a walk year, but let this be a warning to whoever winds up with him in 2010”
I loved watching Matt play. My favorite memory in baseball was watching him slide into home in game 163. I do feel like he gave up on the Rockies and that hurts, but I wish him all the luck in St Louis
Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too. ~Greg, age 8
"I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I would toss one that ain’t never been seen by this generation."
just to explain,
they actually have us write profiles for the players on the team the previous season, so while I wrote Holliday’s bit that year, I didn’t write the blurbs about Jason Marquis or other new to 2009 Rockies that were credited to me. You can actually tell that Holliday bit was mine thanks to the missing/erroneous punctuation.
Actually
I would never have noticed the punctuation. It was the I’m a highly biased fan bit that convinced me. I’m looking forward to the 2010 preview.
Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too. ~Greg, age 8
"I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I would toss one that ain’t never been seen by this generation."
Sorry I also meant to say
Your review of Matt was well stated and brutally honest.
Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too. ~Greg, age 8
"I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I would toss one that ain’t never been seen by this generation."
It's like she had a fake bird on her shoulder.
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I believe that the Rox are probably penciling in Hawpe as our backup 1B
That is the only way I can make sense of it. They probably plan to get him three starts a week in the outfield, giving Smith, Fowler, Gonzo a day off each, and than 1 start a week at 1B to spell Helton. So, then we can resign Giambi cheap. He will be mainly a backup 1B for the times that Hawpe is playing the outfield. Sign Hudson to play 2B full time and make Barmes a backup 3B, 2B, SS. And have EY be a backup 2B and OF, plus a pinch runner.
That would be quite nice, and may be doable if we could gather the cash up.
I've got a spreadsheet that I like to play with
And it assumes 6 pitchers in the pen and 5 starters. that should leave me with a bench of 3 infielders, 2 outfielders, and a backup catcher.
So one other bench spot?
Who is the other backup IF? And would we maybe go with 12 pitchers? I lean towards the 12 pitchers early in the season just because starters tend to go fewer innings.
The bench would be
Spills (didn’t mention him), Hawpe, Barmes, Giambi, EY, Olivo.
Valid point on 12 pitchers early on.
11 pitchers
seems short, although it depends on rest days early – I feel like they typically go 12/13 – again I could be mistaken.
Maybe I'm confused on bench formation
do teams usually go with only 2 infielders on the bench? That also seems a little low to me.
i believe most teams have 2 if, 2 of and a catcher on the bench
12 pitchers is pretty standard
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 6, 2010 11:56 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
But we pretty much always have a 7 person pen.
by Greg Stanwood on Jan 6, 2010 12:00 PM MST up reply actions
Which brings me to another question
is there still an extra spot in the Pen? Until Bucky is healthy or the whole season?
Well, the have Corpas, Belisle, and Flores currently under contract
They will also have Street and bets going to arbitration. Daley will be getting a new contract soon. So, that is 6. I guess the last spot goes to a swingman, Contreras or Smith being my guess, until Buck gets back. At which point, they may get rid of Belisle.
With the return of Betancourt via accepting the arbitration offer, no.
Unless we option Daley to AAA in favor of somebody else.
CL Street
8th Betancourt
7th Corpas
7th Morales
Long Belisle
LOOGY Flores
Other Daley
by Greg Stanwood on Jan 6, 2010 12:07 PM MST up reply actions
Darn, forgot about Morales.
Why did they give that contract to Belisle? I would much rather have Contreras or Smith in that spot.
Belisle's contract is pretty cheap, and his good streak at the end inspire confidence that he could be a long reliever.
In that position, he’ll be pitching largely in blowout games or extra innings affairs. I’m more worried about Flores in his role than I am Belisle in his. Both could obviously be improved, but it’ll be less often Belisle needs to get key outs. Last year, Flores did decently getting his one out assignments done, but Tracy still decided to put him in for an entire inning on occasion and he just wasn’t good at that. That can’t happen again. He’s the exact opposite of Jeremy Affeldt. Hurdle tried to use Affeldt as a LOOGY when he was really a one inning pitcher, and Tracy tries to use Flores as a one inning pitcher when he is really a LOOGY.
by Greg Stanwood on Jan 6, 2010 12:12 PM MST up reply actions
Yes,
but most of the talk has been about the team wanting a swingman for the rotation, considering we have Francis coming back from surgery. Belisle kind of blocks that right now.
Granted, I’m not a huge fan of Flores either.
Were Francis deemed unable to enter the rotation, it's possible they'd switcheroo either Belisle or Morales (who is going to be stretched out to starter level in case they need him back in the rotation).
None of those three players can easily be ditched from the roster without a serious injury. Belisle could probably see work as an emergency starter, but an emergency starter wouldn’t quite qualify as a swingman. If Francis gets hurt again, then the answer is obvious: we call up Greg Smith or another AAA player to replace him. If Francis is just not doing well and we can’t get him on the DL, then it becomes more complicated.
by Greg Stanwood on Jan 6, 2010 12:27 PM MST up reply actions
Belisle as a starter scares me
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf." - Tug McGraw after being asked if he liked grass or Astroturf better.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 6, 2010 12:48 PM MST up reply actions
those struggles became less and less frequent
I had quite a bit of confidence in him the second half of the season last year
ROCKEFELLER!!!
I honestly don't think we'll be seeing Hawpe at 1B much more than 2-3 times all season.
But, of course, I will change that if our final bench spot ends up being somebody who can’t play 1B. He’ll see action there during ST, but I still believe that we’re going to find outselves a bench corner infielder. Plus… once a week? I don’t see us sitting Helton once a week to begin with, no matter who the backup is. He’s healthy enough to go for longer than that without a break, even during long stretches with no days off.
by Greg Stanwood on Jan 6, 2010 11:59 AM MST up reply actions
Granted, he was coming off sugury
But we pretty much never played Helton on Sundays last year. Given his age, it is probably the smart thing to do. Besides, I would hate to ware him down early.
Certainly not.
I just don’t remember Helton really sitting out once a week. But perhaps my memory is faulty.
by Greg Stanwood on Jan 6, 2010 12:09 PM MST up reply actions
Are Rox too left-handed? Absolutely...
I find it hard to believe this issue has yet to be meaningfully addressed by the team. And it;s even harder to fathom, as Rox Girl suggests, that the return of Giambi might negate any attempt to add an RH bat for infield utility duty, a la Atkins (though hopefully more productive).
Any more talk of Mora, Tatis or Quinlan?
Agreed
I just can’t see Giambi fitting over the course of a whole season. Much as I appreciate what he did last September, I still think it was “lightning in a bottle” — an old vet putting it back together for one month — and that over the course of a full season, Giambi’s production is more likely to resemble what he did in Oakland last year than what he did in Colorado in September. Spend the money on a right-handed PH.
New decade, new result: time for a Rockies' division championship.
Question
Would Holliday have taken that same deal if the Rockies had offered it last offseason?
I don’t think so. Boras was determined to test the market.
And the Rockies won’t do 2 Helton-like contracts at once, something to keep in mind in the future as both Tulo and CarGon approach the end of the club-control years.
I’m surprised St. Louis, a mid-market team, did what it did. But I suppose the Cards’ situation was unique. They have the best player in baseball & keeping him is probably dependent on signing Holliday under the lineup protection/commitment to win rationales.
Whether they gambled correctly can be evaluated in about 3 years: (1) did they win a couple of NL pennants or WS titles, and (2) did Pujols agree to stay with Holliday?
If I were a Cards fan, I’d applaud my team’s management for taking that gamble.
New decade, new result: time for a Rockies' division championship.
I think I would too
But then if it did not work out I think I would most likely forget that I was positive about it and start to bash them for overspending…here’s hoping that Holiday makes it so the terms were worth it!
and the Cardinals can no longer call themselves a mid-market club
I’m sorry, but that ship has sailed
ROCKEFELLER!!!
Doesn't "big market"
Refer to the actual area that a team plays in, and not the size of the payroll?
by controlled_slide on Jan 6, 2010 11:43 AM MST up reply actions
I consider it to be the siz of the payroll but I think it could go either way
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf." - Tug McGraw after being asked if he liked grass or Astroturf better.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 6, 2010 12:51 PM MST up reply actions
Denny Neagle and Mike Hampton agree with you.
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I agree
Dear Rockies-Thank you for a wonderful season! Best turnaround in MLB history to become NL Wild Card Champs.
Troy Tulowitzki-MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Garrett Atkins-So Long, Farewell, Auf weidersehen, Goodbye!! You were a great Rockie!
Yorvit Torrealba-Thank you for your clutchiness, en fuegoness and 2 point take down of Matt Kemp!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!
I posted this in another thread
But its better here…
Would anyone give Ubaldo or Tulo this kind of contract?
Dear Rockies-Thank you for a wonderful season! Best turnaround in MLB history to become NL Wild Card Champs.
Troy Tulowitzki-MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Garrett Atkins-So Long, Farewell, Auf weidersehen, Goodbye!! You were a great Rockie!
Yorvit Torrealba-Thank you for your clutchiness, en fuegoness and 2 point take down of Matt Kemp!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!
I'd say it's probably pretty likely for Tulo at this point,
It’s more infrequent for pitchers to get deals that long unless the Yankees are involved.
I'd say Tulo as well
Ubaldo would need to put together something approaching a 20 win season to get to that area methinks
A agree that Tulo is a better bet.
You also need to factor in the injury risk of a pitcher like Jimenez.
If they blossum yes
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf." - Tug McGraw after being asked if he liked grass or Astroturf better.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 6, 2010 12:52 PM MST up reply actions
Rather than grit my teeth and go on a rant about the Monforts
…which I won’t do in this venue…I will say that there is a difference between reality, what the Monforts say is reality, and business operations that emphasize smart over overpayment.
Now as for Holliday….considering his age the Rox would have never payed that much for him anyway. I don’t blame Matt for doing what’s best for his family. I wish him the best
remember it's a decade later now
and the Monforts just opened their pocketbooks to make some midseason acquisitions.
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 6, 2010 12:12 PM MST up reply actions
I know you guys hate it when people go off on the Monforts
It won’t go any further than that small non-sequitor at the beginning of the previous post.
Im happy for Matt. St. Louis is a great baseball town…and as long as he doesn’t continue to drop easy fly balls….ahem….they will love him :)
well, it's not so much that we hate it
5, 6 years ago, it’s pretty deserved still. But they’ve gotten better, and winning has helped them see that spending a bit extra can make a big difference.
I’m not saying they’re the best owners ever, just that they’re nowhere near as they once were.
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 6, 2010 12:26 PM MST up reply actions
errrr
that is to say that we don’t hate it, we just want people to have perspective with it, ya dig?
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 6, 2010 12:27 PM MST up reply actions
monforts in past spend dumb
monforts in now spend smart
monforts not so bad
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 6, 2010 2:15 PM MST up reply actions
ah, simpsons references
you’ll do well here
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 6, 2010 2:52 PM MST up reply actions
We don't hate it when it's deserved.
They make mistakes, and they should be called on it. It’s just become somewhat of an fan comment cliche. If you’ve read, for example, the Denver Post comments section… lol. Every other post is “zomg, cheap monforts, go buy matt holiday 4 10 yrs”
by Greg Stanwood on Jan 6, 2010 12:29 PM MST up reply actions
I'm fine with people complaining about the Monforts as long as it's not idiotic.
Which it usually winds up being as people really tend to advocate overpayment for mid level players or small upgrades over being smart. I also like people to understand the deeper complexities of various situations, which they seldom seem to. The Rockies will never win by trying to outspend the rest of the National League, they’ll win by getting better players.
How much more money will the Rockies have to spend
if this current group of Rockies puts three or four good years together and interest in the team goes up?
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf." - Tug McGraw after being asked if he liked grass or Astroturf better.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 6, 2010 12:56 PM MST up reply actions
That's what we, and they are hoping for clearly.
The good thing about keeping the team in the black is that you don’t have to pay for the team’s current success in future seasons like the Dodgers are getting themselves into and as the D-backs did to fuel their 2001 title run. Pay as you go allows the salary to expand organically when it’s done right, it just takes patience from a fan perspective.
I'm optimisitc about this because Rockies fans
have yet to have a full season where the entire season had a season to watch. In 07 all the magic didn’t happen until late, in 08 they were coming off a World Series but the team was bad so interest faded, and last year the team was terrible for the first two months. I’m interested to see attendance numbers this year if they are playing well all year.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf." - Tug McGraw after being asked if he liked grass or Astroturf better.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 6, 2010 1:08 PM MST up reply actions
Correction
I’m interested to see attendance numbers this yearifwhen they are playing well all year.
Attendance didn’t fade until late into ‘08 if I remember though, but that’s a good point. I also think 09 helped dispel some of the “fluke” feelings from 07. Each year the rox contend will go a long way in building a longer term fan base.
What I mean by this is that there was a good chunk of
each of the last three seasons where the casual fan probably didn’t feel too compelled to watch. (07 and 09 the Rox were terrible in the begining) A 90 win team is generally in the middle of a playoff battle all year long as opposed to being almost out of it and coming on late. I think the all year long thing is what will help spur more interest/attendance.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf." - Tug McGraw after being asked if he liked grass or Astroturf better.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 6, 2010 6:01 PM MST up reply actions
tying this in to SDCat's question above,
I think the big litmus test for the Monfort’s ownership won’t come until the winter before the 2015 season as that’s when both Tulo and Ubaldo’s team options have been exhausted. The team will be relatively expensive then anyway depending on who’s still around.
I'm kind of excited for 2012.
It will be a big year in terms of projecting a new budget allocation. Todd Helton’s 23 million dollar option will absolutely be turned down, and he won’t be taking up a quarter of the payroll anymore. We could see new long term contracts being established to replace that, we could see some splash free agent signings at last, or we could see the Monforts choose to keep going the way they are, and simply let our budget slip back below 60 million.
by Greg Stanwood on Jan 6, 2010 12:31 PM MST up reply actions
I kind of hope
that Helton decides to retire or signs a reasonable extension before the option decision needs to be made – would be better for all involved…
Hating Cubs fans since 1908
I disagree.
Helton is still a valuable MLB player, and he has the right to play as long as he wants. It’s a club option, so the decision is entirely on us. I think we say goodbye either way, but Helton should be allowed to go play elsewhere should he so choose.
by Greg Stanwood on Jan 6, 2010 12:39 PM MST up reply actions
I don't see Helton
going to play anywhere else, ever. Just like I don’t see Chipper Jones playing anywhere other than Atlanta. If Helton wants to continue playing, there is no doubt in my mind that the club will find a way to keep him on.
Hating Cubs fans since 1908
They may...
… but Helton has said, on camera, that he will play baseball until he literally can’t anymore, and he will do it for anybody. However, that’s not to say it’s a fine truth. It’s just not a given that he’s a Rockie or he’s retired.
by Greg Stanwood on Jan 6, 2010 12:46 PM MST up reply actions
This might be wishful thinking
But I think that Helton is the type of player that values loyalty, and will take less money to play in Colorado.
by controlled_slide on Jan 6, 2010 12:48 PM MST up reply actions
He does value loyaty.
The Rockies could be his first choice every year he plays after free agency. But, if we don’t want him, I see his desire to play as outweighing his desire to play for us.
by Greg Stanwood on Jan 6, 2010 12:51 PM MST up reply actions
I could see that also
But, on the other side of the equation, I see the Rockies as a franchise that values someone like Helton who’s a huge fan favorite and lifetime Rockie.
by controlled_slide on Jan 6, 2010 12:52 PM MST up reply actions
I don't see his
market value being prohibitively high in 2012, he’ll be nearly 40.
Hating Cubs fans since 1908
It's selfish but
Todd can’t wear any uniform except the Rockies’. He will still be able to play and he will sign an extension
this...lol
Dear Rockies-Thank you for a wonderful season! Best turnaround in MLB history to become NL Wild Card Champs.
Troy Tulowitzki-MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Garrett Atkins-So Long, Farewell, Auf weidersehen, Goodbye!! You were a great Rockie!
Yorvit Torrealba-Thank you for your clutchiness, en fuegoness and 2 point take down of Matt Kemp!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!
my complaints have been in the "retaining" talent area
rather than going into free agency. Looks like they’ve sewn up Tulo and a couple of the core guys till 2015 (probably underpaid on Tulo’s part) so as long as they keep people in their prime I’m good.
Other than Holliday, who have they not retained?
Just because they don’t play the free agent game (and rightfully so) doesn’t make them cheap.
Agree here
paying Holliday something like $18M/year is ridiculous when you have talented young cheap outfielders (which the Rox do). That’s like $9-10M per marginal win over CarGo given the projections for the two. I for one am happy to see the budget being allocated otherwise.
Hating Cubs fans since 1908
I agree in principal
However, it would have been nice to have a right handed bat for protection in the playoffs this year.
Speaking of that. Do they have any farm prospects they are willing to bring up for right handed power? Right now as it stands we have CDI….and Tulo….and Dex the switch hitter and the wildly inconsistent Barmes
The only right handed bat in the minors that has a chance of being on the team
is Young. Other than that, it’s pretty barren.
Oh
and I’m not quite sure how you are getting from not having another RH bat for the playoffs to the Monforts being cheap because they don’t retain their players. Yes, it’s unfortunate we played the Phillies, but that doesn’t make it the Monforts fault
I had moved on....from the monforts topic
It’s not that big a deal to me man. I have nothing against them. I know Dick personally (stop giggling) in fact
Well, the only reasonable reply to...
…“you don’t know dick”, is…
“umm yes, as a matter of fact, I do know dick”
;-)
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
how do you know Dick?
I went to school and played ball with his older son for four years.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 6, 2010 3:00 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
business dealings
from some of his charity work. Politically he and I are on opposite ends of the spectrum but I respect anyone who donates to charity.
"Groovy" Ash from Evil Dead 2
"No one came from miles around / and said man your music is really hot" No One Came...Deep Purple
Right handed power is a big weakness in the system
We’ve got a decent right handed contact hitter in Darin Holcomb and Cole Garner has latent power that may not ever fully materialize Either one may not be an ideal solution right now. Next down the line would be Roling, Beerer or Zuanich and then you go down to last year’s college draftees like Kent Matthes and Jared Clark that might move quickly. All of these guys have to answer questions in the minors before they’ll get close to MLB action, so as far as help in 2010, it’s not looking good.
we were really hurt by Atkins dramatic drop off this last year
I think the Rox were hoping he’d turn it around. disappointing really.
Btw: I met and had a drunken conversation with Garrett in the wee hours of the morning at Pete’s Kitchen on Colfax. It’s a quite hysterical story in fact…remind me to tell it some time.
I will clean it up....this is a family site
So me and the guy I was with at the time had just come from JR’s and were sitting down to eat our breakfast burritos when in came Garrett with some blonde girl. The place was packed….nowhere to sit. I recognized Garrett and I said “Come sit down with us”. Garrett looked at us, shrugged his shoulders and he and his significant other sat down on the other side of the booth.
First off. Nice guy….. He was clearly quite drunk but he was coherent. He kept looking up at me and the guy I was with. Finally after we start eating he says…“You guys are all sweaty….did you run here?” I giggled and told him we were at JR’s dancing.
“Dancing?” he said….“who dances?”….
we kept eating…then he looks up at us again
“you guys waiting for your girls…we can get up and go to another table”
I explained it was just the two of us. Meanwhile the girl he was with was barely containing her laughter
he looks up again….this time with BIG EYES….“OH” he said loudly “You guys are GAY!” and he laughed for what seemed to be five minutes. It was hysterical
Long story short. He profusely apologized….autographed our napkins….and paid for your food. lol
Very nice guy like I said but clearly the alcohol had dulled the brain function
Thankfully, most Rockies seem that way.
The last real jerk I remember having on the team was Jose Mesa.
by Greg Stanwood on Jan 6, 2010 1:22 PM MST up reply actions
Garrett really handled his benching last year very well
it’s a shame he couldn’t snap out of his slump
I heard Ramon Ramirez was a jerk as well
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 6, 2010 2:19 PM MST up reply actions
Which one?
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf." - Tug McGraw after being asked if he liked grass or Astroturf better.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 6, 2010 2:24 PM MST up reply actions
uh
the one we had?
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 6, 2010 2:43 PM MST up reply actions
When I responded
I forgot about the “Rockie” part from above since I saw the comment later.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf." - Tug McGraw after being asked if he liked grass or Astroturf better.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 6, 2010 2:50 PM MST up reply actions
Fantastic story
Well told.
I don’t have a real Garrett story but I was once forwarded a very, very long email from a random lonely girl addressed to Garrett, basically out of nowhere trying to explain why he should go on a date with her. Priceless (if incredibly sad) stuff.
whoa dude....that's uncool
it’s not like it was a letter to Brad Hawpe….
Dear Rockies-Thank you for a wonderful season! Best turnaround in MLB history to become NL Wild Card Champs.
Troy Tulowitzki-MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Garrett Atkins-So Long, Farewell, Auf weidersehen, Goodbye!! You were a great Rockie!
Yorvit Torrealba-Thank you for your clutchiness, en fuegoness and 2 point take down of Matt Kemp!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!
Damn
you’re right – I got my SDCat crush focus mixed up. My apolgies Cat.
Hating Cubs fans since 1908
and also still uncool....:(
Dear Rockies-Thank you for a wonderful season! Best turnaround in MLB history to become NL Wild Card Champs.
Troy Tulowitzki-MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Garrett Atkins-So Long, Farewell, Auf weidersehen, Goodbye!! You were a great Rockie!
Yorvit Torrealba-Thank you for your clutchiness, en fuegoness and 2 point take down of Matt Kemp!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!
If you could go out with one Rockies player who would it be?
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf." - Tug McGraw after being asked if he liked grass or Astroturf better.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 6, 2010 6:03 PM MST up reply actions
hmmmm thats an interesting question
depends on what the is the goal of the date:P
I take the 5th:)
Dear Rockies-Thank you for a wonderful season! Best turnaround in MLB history to become NL Wild Card Champs.
Troy Tulowitzki-MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Garrett Atkins-So Long, Farewell, Auf weidersehen, Goodbye!! You were a great Rockie!
Yorvit Torrealba-Thank you for your clutchiness, en fuegoness and 2 point take down of Matt Kemp!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!
I can't believe you just said that
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf." - Tug McGraw after being asked if he liked grass or Astroturf better.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 6, 2010 7:04 PM MST up reply actions
Scott Podsednik's wife
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 6, 2010 6:37 PM MST up reply actions
Pods is comin' after you.
NEVER SURRENDER DREAMS
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you know the rules on her
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 6, 2010 6:44 PM MST up reply actions
Brittany Binger . . . yummy.
NEVER SURRENDER DREAMS
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.
Oh, you were talking
about those pictures of Grady?
NEVER SURRENDER DREAMS
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.
that word is so creepy when assigned to a person
but yeah….she’s hot
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 6, 2010 6:56 PM MST up reply actions
/refrains from
highly inappropriate joke
NEVER SURRENDER DREAMS
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Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.
probably for the best.
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 7, 2010 10:03 AM MST up reply actions
If this was a far different
site, I’d do it.
NEVER SURRENDER DREAMS
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.
Nobody has mentioned the HOF voting yet.
I’m normally somewhat disinterested myself, but this year I’ve paid more attention. I particularly like the method that Beyond the Boxscore uses for examining a players HOF credentials, and they show that Blyleven deserved to be in while Dawson does not. The baseball writers have disappointed again.
yeah there's an entire article up
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 6, 2010 12:27 PM MST up reply actions
For a little while.
NEVER SURRENDER DREAMS
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.
I'd need
to demote Rox Girl so you both could be under that category.
NEVER SURRENDER DREAMS
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.
"Ryan the Intern"
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 6, 2010 2:20 PM MST up reply actions
..who also writes most of the show.
Donate to charity by shopping for Purple Row Merchandise at:
Purple Row Cares
yep
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 6, 2010 6:37 PM MST up reply actions
Prepare for the Hazing
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 6, 2010 2:20 PM MST up reply actions
Breaking news
WolfMarauder has been traded to the Yomiuri Giants for backup catcher, Takeru Kobayashi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nKKqPOiJxI
"There are only two important things in life: baseball and breathing. But at least you can survive without breathing for 3 minutes."
www.soundclick.com/hollidayrain
Wouldn't that be the Purple Hazing :)
Dear Rockies-Thank you for a wonderful season! Best turnaround in MLB history to become NL Wild Card Champs.
Troy Tulowitzki-MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Garrett Atkins-So Long, Farewell, Auf weidersehen, Goodbye!! You were a great Rockie!
Yorvit Torrealba-Thank you for your clutchiness, en fuegoness and 2 point take down of Matt Kemp!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!
Anybody notice the 2010 CHONE projections?
They expect good things from Tulo, but not much else. I don’t get the low projection for CarGon. On the pitching side, JDLR is expected to be pretty good, while Ubaldo is expected to regress.




















