Thursday Rockpile: Who's in the monkey-sphere...
Sorry I'm so late with this. In the absence of substantial Rockies news I started yet another piece on why the Giants haven't really upgraded their offense or something or maybe it was talking about what uninspiring options the Dodgers have left to help their rotation when I realized that I was kind of bored with writing that stuff myself, so you readers have to be really sick of it. So I scrapped it and thinking of why, I started this.
I realized that I've got three or four NL competitors that besides the Rockies themselves are taking up the bulk of my baseball attention. The Dodgers and Giants in the NL West for what should probably be obvious reasons, as well as the Diamondbacks because I still think they could be sneaky good this season, and the Braves.
For some reason I'm not really looking much at the Phillies or Cardinals, perhaps because I see them as the odds on favorites for their divisions still and thus not really a threat to the Rockies for the playoffs, even while I recognize how faulty this logic is. If the Braves are somehow able to pass the Phillies in 2010, and they're close enough in talent that it's certainly possible, than Philadelphia becomes the favorite for the wild card and I should be more cognizant of how we measure up to them (as of right now, we measure up about as well as we did in the playoffs, which is to say we don't).
With the Cardinals and the NL Central, I think somewhere in my head, I have it as an almost given assumption that the first place NL Central team will fall short of the second place NL West team (as they did in the Rockies playoff years of 2007 and 2009), thus making looking at that division's second tier, specifically the Cubs and Brewers, a moot point. With about 162 games left to play in 2010, just like my dismissal of the Braves as a legitimate NL East threat, this is either being naive -I mean, I only have to look at 2008 to know this- or more likely, just a sign of my brain taking the kind of shortcuts everybody is inclined to.
As complex as we think that stuff between our ears is, the fact is that the human brain doesn't want to make things harder on itself than it has to, and this means limiting the information that it keeps around and simplifying the processes that it uses to help us make judgment calls. There will be some people naturally gifted with greater capacities up there than the rest of us (and it seems to me that these people often like reminding us of this every chance they get, but I digress) but everybody has a finite limit to what they can store and think about.
I bring this up because in reading off season analyses, be they from me or anybody else, you have to consider the limitations of the analyst. Sometimes this isn't easy, but I'll give you a few common examples of analytical shortcuts you might see, and this isn't in any particular order, and keep in mind these shortcuts are not all bad, or not always bad, as we tend to do them without a second thought because the success rate with them is palatable to us, we'll take the misses we have because we also know we hit with them:
1. Generic league adjustment -
The AL is tougher, the NL is easier, ergo all moves will assume the AL player will have more success switching than the NL player. Christina Kahrl's analysis of the Miguel Olivo signing (for subscribers of Baseball Prospectus) would be a case in point. The broader point is definitely true, the AL is the superior league right now, but on the micro level of players switching, this isn't always the case. I like how Kahrl looked at the effect that moving to Coors might have on Olivo's K's btw. That's something to be hopeful for as a Rockies fan.
2. Regression -
If a player had a great year out of sorts for their career, we expect them to fall back, if they had an awful one, we expect them to rebound. My Sunday Rockpile and the subsequent discussion has some examples of this including Andre Ethier and Troy Tulowitzki. Sometimes, however, there's really something to be said for just looking at the momentum. If Garrett Atkins or Andruw Jones tank for a couple of seasons in a row, even if they aren't that old, it might not be the wisest course of action to assume the projected rebound (as I learned last season in Atkins' case) is real. The Rockies don't really have anybody currently in this category except for maybe Manny Corpas, but a couple of good cases in point within the division might be Arizona's Chris Young or the Giants Edgar Renteria. Most projections see rebounds for these players, and I tend to believe it for Young in particular, but don't be surprised if Renteria is just as bad or even worse in 2010 than he was in 2009.
3. Wash. Rinse. Repeat. Last year as dogma -
Analysts that haven't yet figured out the regression shortcut tend to do one far easier, which is just look at the prior season and say this is what is. Remember how Cardinals fans and the front office just wouldn't part with Ryan Ludwick for Matt Holliday because Ludwick was so awesome in 2008 and it was a sign of greatness to come? Thank heaven for that. Who do you think the Cardinals would rather have now, Ludwick, or Michael Taylor (the stud outfield prospect the A's got for Brett Wallace, the centerpiece of their eventual Holliday trade)? Actually, I don't know, given the optimistic projection fans are giving Ludwick at FanGraphs, maybe they would prefer the older soon to be much more expensive player.
Tracy speak interlude:
So if I'm saying that regressing players to a mean isn't always right and sometimes a previous season is, but now saying that it's not, what exactly am I saying? Good question. I'm saying all projections are guesses, the regression guess tends to be the more accurate one statistically than just going by the previous season, but don't consider it a fixed certainty. Especially don't if there are other factors at play. A player that's visibly getting slower and pudgier is probably not as likely to rebound as that pretty computer projection says he is.
4. Secondary sourcing -
Sense our brains can only handle so much information, we tend to rely on other sources to fill in the blank spaces of our knowledge. You know that you do this, and you're likely doing it right this very instant, but you should also be aware that whoever you're reading is likely doing it as well. If it's a good and trusted source of the author, sure, that's fine, I always like reading those outside opinions from my favorite writers, but a problem arises in that you as the reader now have two filters that have been put into the analysis, one from the author and one from the other source. There should be a natural increase in skepticism any time this happens and it doesn't matter if the secondary source is anonymous or not. Even direct quotes can be cut off or manipulated to fit space constraints
5. Groupthink -
Cousin to the above, but sometimes more devious, and as a Purple Row user you have to be particularly aware of it in this venue as it's common to blog and message board communities. Why it can be a dangerous trap is because in larger communities there can be more than one instance of it going on simultaneously, even as opposing sides in the same debate. So while you might think that you're outside the groupthink bubble with a few of your other buddies here going against my or other authors' opinions, you could really just be in another bubble.
The great catcher debate of 2009 (that's been spilling into 2010, apparently) is a good case in point. One faction couldn't get it into their heads that Yorvit Torrealba was simply the more valuable catcher, the better choice as a starting catcher at the end of last season and going into the playoffs. You just don't bench a player that's seeing a fat juicy grapefruit where everybody else is seeing a baseball. The other side couldn't get it into their heads that Chris Iannetta is the much safer and better long term bet for the franchise. The first side -which includes Internet authors off of Purple Row, I might add- still doesn't want to admit that even though he's the safer bet, Iannetta's a risk, and given his subpar 2009, may be a rather substantial one, and Miguel Olivo might have more of a starting shot than they think.
Okay, I'm now really late, and have lots of errands to run today, so I'll cut this post off here. Maybe I'll do more of these later, as these aren't the only analytical shortcuts you'll see, I didn't even get into the arbitrary cutting that I do with the Padres and those NL Central teams, for instance (and that many outside analysts did with the Rockies prior to 2009), it's a relative of the third item of the above list, or other people can add others that they've noticed in the comments. Hopefully this gets a start on the discussion (and no, not that discussion... you've pretty much exhausted the catcher thing by now, don't you think?)
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I think the odds of someone saying
“Hang on, you’re right, I do indulge in groupthink” are pretty small! It is a reality, though, and I think we all indulge in it to a greater or, for the most part on PR, lesser extent (NB Redhawk constitutes a group unto himself, so my proposition stands).
My particular fault is that, in times of hurry or lack of concentration, I do absorb things my favourite writers say and they become, for want of more accurate information, gospel in my brain. So while I don’t often simply repeat any party line, I am certain that some of my arguments recycle these lazy assumptions as if they were true. My problem is that my knowledge of baseball is so relatively shallow that it would take a relatively large effort to further my understanding to the point where I can pick holes in arguments based on anything more than logic or stats, which I can handle pretty well.
It's an interesting
conundrum. Does group think develop on it’s own, or do like minded people tend to gravitate towards one another?
Hating Cubs fans since 1908
It tends to develop in any small group
that does not take steps to avoid it. It happens because conformity and conflict avoidance can overshadow the group’s overall purpose. That’s why it can be healthy to encourage critical thinking in such groups.
I can smell spring
I saw a relevant quote on Google today
When two men in business always agree, one of them is unnecessary.
- William Wrigley Jr.
I can smell spring
Another relative of item 3
that became more prevalent last year is the frequent attempts, particularly in the mainstream media, to pick “next year’s Rays”, or “next year’s Rockies”, or whatever team climbed from relative obscurity into the playoffs. The problem is that you can’t really predict things that are by nature unpredictable. In hindsight, one can identify reasons why the Rays or Rockies were able to make large gains in performance, but prior to the occurrence of those events, there was also a good reason to predict the opposite.
Nevertheless, we’ll start seeing articles about the surprise players and teams for 2010 in the next month or two, because nobody can resist the urge to say “I told you so”.
Though 2010's stars are already looking set
Yanks, Red Sox, Phillies, Cards, Mariners – is that about it? Dodgers and Angels should both regress, Braves and Rockies on the periphery – it might be harder than ever to predict a genuine outlier this season.
Brewers could be a dark horse
As always, the AL Central is an enormous question mark.
ROCKEFELLER!!!
Yeah, you've got a point there.
I think that some writers use the fact that projections are always very uncertain to try to get the “scoop” on the coming seasons surprises. Inevitably, some of the projections will be wrong, and if they can guess what unexpected thing will actually occur, they can take credit for it in the end. Heck, last year some people expected the Royals to contend in their division. I think this was because the Rays had gone from perennially putrid to league champions, so people started looking at other bad teams to suddenly improve. But you’re right, it would be foolish for anybody to predict the Orioles taking the AL East next year, so maybe we won’t see as much of that stuff.
There are always surprises though
That’s what makes baseball great. For no other reason than because it’s baseball I bet at least one of the teams you mentioned (Yankees, Red Sox, Pilies, Cards, and Marines) misses the playoffs. I wouldn’t pick against any of them individually but I bet something happens so that they all don’t make it.
"They fired me for being too old. I'll never make the mistake of turning seventy again." -- Casey Stengel after being let go by the Yankees
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 7, 2010 12:48 PM MST up reply actions
It's funny
People trying to project the next year for a player who just had an outlier in performance do seem to get stuck on only two possibilities: 1) repeating last year’s performance or , 2) regressing to the mean. How about regressing somewhere between last year and the mean, or, exceeding even last year’s performance? You’re right, in the end, they’re all guesses. But in the case of large scale projections (i.e, how will every player in the MLB do next year), they are particularly vulnerable to making the projection in the wrong direction because they have only the numbers themselves as a basis for projection, instead of some underlying theory for each player (e.g, Atkins will stink in 2010 because he has become fat and lazy and Francis will pitch well because we’ve seen his rehab pitching sessions, etc.).
I can smell spring
RG -
Personally I think alot of people are overestimating Atlanta for 2010. I really think they lost alot in trading away Vazquez. He wasn’t a strong bet to repeat his stellar 2009, but he has been vastly underrated the last 3 or 4 years, he is definitely a true Ace, whatever Ozzie Loudmouth Guillen thinks of him. For the Braves to compete they need Tommy Hanson to repeat or improve on his 2009, which may be a tall order, and they need Jason Heyward to emerge in his rookie season in a way that only a few guys have recently. The second half surge they got from LaRoche was pretty key for them, as they really didn’t have much at he plate last year (Old Troy Glaus is not an upgrade there). They also added a ton of risk in the backend of their bullpen in replacing a very effective Soriano (who they should have just kept over Wagner and their 1st rounder) with old Wagner and Saito. Of any team you mentioned – they have by far the most question marks and the most risk of serious regression in 2010.
Hating Cubs fans since 1908
I dunno about that
My personal take on it is that the Phils and Cards are locks and that the Rockies really need to win their first division title to make the playoffs. The Braves and (gag) Cubs are wildcard favorites. Both of those teams are at greater risk of injuries than most. For the Braves, Chipper Jones, Troy Glaus, Tim Hudson & Wagner have been very fragile in recent seasons and McCann (on whom the Braves are totally dependent for success) had his own health problems last year. If they get complete or near-complete seasons from those 5, the Braves probably take the WC, as they almost did last year. For the Cubs, having Ramirez, Lee & Zambrano playing year is the key, along with the addition-by-subtraction of Loco Milton, as is whether Soto has a bouce-back year.
Of all things to project, injuries are probably the hardest, and I therefore put little stock in projections for the Braves or Cubs. If they’re mostly healthy, they’re going to be trouble & have more veteran talent than the Rockies. If they’re banged up like last year, the wild card is very open. But it will take both of those teams having big injury problems, not just one, to get them out of the wild card race. That happened in 09, but may not repeat itself in 2010.
Thus my focus on 2010 is winning the West. I like our chances vs. the Dodgers & Giants (and, yes, Dbacks, if Webb rebounds) better than I do vs. the Braves & Cubs for wildcard.
New decade, new result: time for a Rockies' division championship.
how do you see the Cubs having a better record than us?
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 7, 2010 1:11 PM MST up reply actions
I don't think he said that
I think he indicated that they were wildcard favorites, with the implication that the Rockies were likely to win the West, with LA, SF and AZ not being strong enough to win the wildcard if the Cubs and Braves are heatlhy. I’m not sure I agree, I still think the WC will come out of the West again, but that’s because I don’t think ATL is going to keep up and the Mets are a mess. I’ve pretty much written the Cubs off as well, they lost pitching and their offense is getting older and older every day.
Hating Cubs fans since 1908
I agree with your assessment
I guess my mind drifted down the “Win the NL West or Bust” and I thought “….no, if we don’t win the West, we’ll take the WC again, at least over the Cubs”
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 7, 2010 1:20 PM MST up reply actions
The Cubs have the payroll
and, in general, big $ = more wins. The historical stats on that are pretty clear.
The Cubs have more highly-paid veteran talent than the Rockies (Helton vs.
Lee/Ramirez/Zambrano). So do the Mets. So do the Braves.
But the X-factor in recent years for teams with a lot of big contracts to older players has been injuries. The Mets got burned last year, as did the Cubs and Braves.
Project a mostly injury-free season for the Cubs & Braves & they’re trouble.
Project a level of injuries anywhere near what they had last year, and the
Rockies should finish ahead of either. (Assuming another mostly injury-free year for the Rox. The only significant losses last year were Francis, Buchholz & Corpas, each of whom was capably replaced … by Marquis, Betancourt, Morales.)
Personally, I hope the Billy Goat Curse continues to plague the Cubs for the remaining 99 years in their second century of frustration. I’m just saying that if all those players they’re shelling out the big bucks to manage to play most of the year with their career numbers, it would be a stretch to beat them out for the wild card. Ditto with the Braves. But not the Mets. Their pitching mostly sucks.
New decade, new result: time for a Rockies' division championship.
Payroll doesn't equal winning
well-exercised payroll does.
Also we can’t just assume that when Aramis and Lee and Big Z come back that they’ll be playing like their primes. There’s going to be some declination there, especially since they are older players.
As long as Jim Hendry is running that team, it’s gonna be terrible.
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 7, 2010 2:17 PM MST up reply actions
If you were ever actually able to look at those graphs I posted
You would know that the r squared value on the trend lines essentially meant that 40% of the variance in wins can be explained by payroll.
Foxes are naughties
I think the equations you are looking for go as follows
Big payroll = Making playoffs
BUT………….
Big payroll + stupidity = Missing playoffs
"They fired me for being too old. I'll never make the mistake of turning seventy again." -- Casey Stengel after being let go by the Yankees
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 7, 2010 8:18 PM MST up reply actions
There are a lot of purple-tinter spectacles in this conversation!
When I play poker, I am happy to go up against one rival when I have a strong hand. I am less happy when I end up seeing a flop with, say, 4 others in the pot – I may still have the best hand but there’s a much bigger chance of me being outdrawn. The Rockies, I feel, are in the latter position.
I see your point, and agree
but the Cubs? Really?
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 7, 2010 3:46 PM MST up reply actions
I don't disagree with you
In a vacuum, more money typically means more wins, but not when that money is allocated to undeserving or overvalued resources, or to use your analogy, when the GM goes all in on ten six offsuit.
Hating Cubs fans since 1908
Big money + smart GM = scary good
it’s extremely rare that these two things come together.
"Groovy" Ash from Evil Dead 2
"No one came from miles around / and said man your music is really hot" No One Came...Deep Purple
Which is starting to make me reevaluate
Brian Cashman. He just climbed out of my bottom 10 GM’s to my middle 10 GM’s. Although his theft of Javier Vazquez could bump him up more.
Hating Cubs fans since 1908
I still don't give him much credit for that
they said “hey take our bench/borderline MLB players and we’ll take your Ace that you can’t afford”
They wouldn’t have gotten Vazquez or Grandy if their respective teams could afford them.
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 7, 2010 4:20 PM MST up reply actions
I agree
I just would imagine that there are a lot of teams out there that would be more than willing to get an Ace on a 1 year deal for 10mil and somehow Cash ended up getting him.
Hating Cubs fans since 1908
like me
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 7, 2010 4:30 PM MST up reply actions
I can't give him much credit
The reason why they were so good last year was because he signed the three best free agents on the market. Any GM with the money to spend that the Yankees did could have made those moves.
"They fired me for being too old. I'll never make the mistake of turning seventy again." -- Casey Stengel after being let go by the Yankees
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 7, 2010 8:21 PM MST up reply actions
the yankees are just stupid good this season
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 7, 2010 8:28 PM MST up reply actions
Thankfully the game is not played on paper
"They fired me for being too old. I'll never make the mistake of turning seventy again." -- Casey Stengel after being let go by the Yankees
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 7, 2010 8:56 PM MST up reply actions
Unfortunately..
The Yankees do play this game on paper.

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by Charlie77 on Jan 8, 2010 6:38 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Isn't that mostly cotton and linen?
"The Dodgers are such a .500 team that if there was a way to split a three-game series, they'd find it." Vin Scully: On-Air Radio Broadcast (1990)
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 8, 2010 11:46 PM MST up reply actions
Even Sabean or Manaya could put this team together with the kind of money the Yankees have.
There’s no strategy in that. It’s lame.
Don't hate the player, hate the game, except all Yankees players.
An orangutan could put together a great team with that much money
"They fired me for being too old. I'll never make the mistake of turning seventy again." -- Casey Stengel after being let go by the Yankees
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 7, 2010 10:22 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
/Orangutans everywhere vow to destroy SoxRoxFan :-)
"They fired me for being too old. I'll never make the mistake of turning seventy again." -- Casey Stengel after being let go by the Yankees
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 7, 2010 11:03 PM MST up reply actions
Planets of the Apes
I’m not afraid of General Erko!!!
Don't hate the player, hate the game, except all Yankees players.
Sabean or Minaya would've botched the Grandy or Vazquez trades.
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 9, 2010 9:25 PM MST up reply actions
I'd add....
…as an addendum to Groupthink: Emotion.
As much as many folks consider themselves objective analysts, or even sabermetricians, we are all human. I’ve always suspected that a piece of the “great catcher debate” stuff was simply that some folks have, for one reason or another, an emotional attachment to Iannetta. As a result, they dug their heels in a bit more than they would for another player.
And that’s completely, 100% fine. As a non-stat guy, most of my sports connections are made with that kind of personal connection. I’ve had players on teams I rooted for I loved and players that left me cold. And it wasn’t always about production or performance. (As a Yankee fan growing up, my favorite player was Fred “Chicken” Stanley. Why? Who knows? Maybe it was his nickname. In fact, yeah, it was his nickname.)
When you stop and think about it, there’s not an objective, rational reason why any of us should be Rockies fans. Or baseball fans, for that matter. So, when the very basis of our being here is rooted in emotion, not reason, it’s perfectly fair to allow for emotion to play a part in how we view things — even if we don’t always want to admit it. For me, in fact, that emotion — and the sometimes less than rational opinions that flow from it — are one the true joys of being a baseball fan.
Nope
My attachment to Iannetta is due to my emotional attachment to cold, emotionless logic.
by controlled_slide on Jan 7, 2010 12:30 PM MST up reply actions
Which gets me wondering....
…what stats would one use to calculate “dreaminess”?
Kidding folks. k-i-d-d-i-n-g.
Russ knows even more
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 7, 2010 12:46 PM MST up reply actions
I can only calculate..
clutchiness and Hawteness :)errr..Hawpeness
Dear Rockies-Thank you for a wonderful season! Best turnaround in MLB history to become NL Wild Card Champs.
Troy Tulowitzki-MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Garrett Atkins-So Long, Farewell, Auf weidersehen, Goodbye!! You were a great Rockie!
Yorvit Torrealba-Thank you for your clutchiness, en fuegoness and 2 point take down of Matt Kemp!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!
WE CALCULATE DOOM DAMMIT
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 7, 2010 1:11 PM MST up reply actions
I'm emotionally attached to wOBA
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 7, 2010 12:35 PM MST up reply actions
Maybe that's why I still like batting average....
…it’s old, scruffy and no one likes it as much as they used to. I just want to let it in the house, set it by the fire, give it a nice dish of warm milk, and tell it “You were good enough for Rod Carew, you’re good enough for me, ol’ pal.”
And then we can yell at those whippersnappers RISP and OBA to get off our damn lawn.
by BroJB on Jan 7, 2010 12:40 PM MST up reply actions 7 recs
+1
funny
Dex Knows
Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. -C.S. Lewis
hahaha...rec'd
Dear Rockies-Thank you for a wonderful season! Best turnaround in MLB history to become NL Wild Card Champs.
Troy Tulowitzki-MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Garrett Atkins-So Long, Farewell, Auf weidersehen, Goodbye!! You were a great Rockie!
Yorvit Torrealba-Thank you for your clutchiness, en fuegoness and 2 point take down of Matt Kemp!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!
The 50-foot golden Iannetta statue under construction in RockiesMagicNumber’s backyard has no idea what you’re talking about.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
you told me you wouldn't tell anyone
that’s it, you’re not invited to the March Iannetta Faire or the We <3 Chris BBQ in June or any of the 14 scheduled “watch all of Iannetta’s ABs from 2008-2009” sit-ins this upcoming season.
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 7, 2010 1:13 PM MST up reply actions
I like this.
Can we do the AB watching before I leave? I’ll bring deer meat.
Hating Cubs fans since 1908
we can invite clint barmes
“Ok, I’ve got the cooler, Hizilla has all the bags of chips and stuff, hey Clint, could you grab that deer meet and meet us upstairs”
{2 minutes later}
“what have we DONE?!?!?!?”
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 7, 2010 1:22 PM MST up reply actions
If that happened,
we would start EY2 and re-sign Q
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 7, 2010 1:47 PM MST up reply actions
Perhaps
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 7, 2010 3:40 PM MST up reply actions
Groupthink tends to be a very common phenomena
particularly in online venues (Blogs, online editions of newspapers) It is to be expected. Now….MAYBE it shouldn’t become as bloody as the GCD (Great Catcher Debate) did, but it shows people are passionate about…..catchers. There’s a definate majority of people who tend to support CDI…but that Yorvy minority was as passionate as him.
It made for great reading (for me) but I’m sure it gave people some gray hair.
"Groovy" Ash from Evil Dead 2
"No one came from miles around / and said man your music is really hot" No One Came...Deep Purple
the GCD was
nowhere near as nasty as the McD/not McD brawls at MHR…
talk about a groupthink site …
Dear Rockies-Thank you for a wonderful season! Best turnaround in MLB history to become NL Wild Card Champs.
Troy Tulowitzki-MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Garrett Atkins-So Long, Farewell, Auf weidersehen, Goodbye!! You were a great Rockie!
Yorvit Torrealba-Thank you for your clutchiness, en fuegoness and 2 point take down of Matt Kemp!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!
I was reviewing you sig line earlier
and if we traded Hawpe, you could reduce it by 50%
/ducks thrown shoe
I can smell spring
It's a good theory, however you'd be wrong
because I would just make it farewell, as I did with Yorvit and Atty :P
Dear Rockies-Thank you for a wonderful season! Best turnaround in MLB history to become NL Wild Card Champs.
Troy Tulowitzki-MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Garrett Atkins-So Long, Farewell, Auf weidersehen, Goodbye!! You were a great Rockie!
Yorvit Torrealba-Thank you for your clutchiness, en fuegoness and 2 point take down of Matt Kemp!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!
everytime I get a -1 from you
its like a gift :)
Dear Rockies-Thank you for a wonderful season! Best turnaround in MLB history to become NL Wild Card Champs.
Troy Tulowitzki-MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Garrett Atkins-So Long, Farewell, Auf weidersehen, Goodbye!! You were a great Rockie!
Yorvit Torrealba-Thank you for your clutchiness, en fuegoness and 2 point take down of Matt Kemp!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!
I also want to know
Why are there no sp in you signature? Atty makes the list, but not Ubaldo?
Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too. ~Greg, age 8
"I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I would toss one that ain’t never been seen by this generation."
I don't exactly remember how my sig line started
but initially it was a note to John Kruk….
and then people were calling for Hawpe’s head and Yorvit’s benching..
it was just my way of showing support for some of my favorites..
I have a bad feeling this is going to devolve into the
Great SDcatSigLine War of 2010
Dear Rockies-Thank you for a wonderful season! Best turnaround in MLB history to become NL Wild Card Champs.
Troy Tulowitzki-MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Garrett Atkins-So Long, Farewell, Auf weidersehen, Goodbye!! You were a great Rockie!
Yorvit Torrealba-Thank you for your clutchiness, en fuegoness and 2 point take down of Matt Kemp!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!
do you have any idea how many 1s and 0s your sig wastes
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 7, 2010 2:27 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
i do....
and I already said before the season starts…I’ll come up with something new..
:)
Dear Rockies-Thank you for a wonderful season! Best turnaround in MLB history to become NL Wild Card Champs.
Troy Tulowitzki-MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Garrett Atkins-So Long, Farewell, Auf weidersehen, Goodbye!! You were a great Rockie!
Yorvit Torrealba-Thank you for your clutchiness, en fuegoness and 2 point take down of Matt Kemp!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!
twss?
(seriously kidding)
Dear Rockies-Thank you for a wonderful season! Best turnaround in MLB history to become NL Wild Card Champs.
Troy Tulowitzki-MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Garrett Atkins-So Long, Farewell, Auf weidersehen, Goodbye!! You were a great Rockie!
Yorvit Torrealba-Thank you for your clutchiness, en fuegoness and 2 point take down of Matt Kemp!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!
by SDcat09 on Jan 7, 2010 2:36 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
HA
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 7, 2010 2:38 PM MST up reply actions
I'm picturing forests of 1s and 0s
being eaten by giant logging machines
and then tall blue aliens running around
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 7, 2010 2:36 PM MST up reply actions
Yeah, the "GCD" was really no big deal...
…I’m not sure why some folks got so uptight about it. It was just some plain old baseball arguing. i didn’t see anything that got too personal (although I didn’t see everything). I thought there was quite a bit of wit and humor in it and it certainly enlivened things.
Heck, arguing about something as stupid as who should catch for a baseball team is one of the true joys of being a fan. As long as it stays respectful and tempers are held in check, I’m all for it from time to time.
Well, a lot of the pure nastiness got hidden
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 7, 2010 12:56 PM MST up reply actions
ugh, the joys of being a moderator
actually it’s pretty hilarious to see who wrote what
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 7, 2010 1:14 PM MST up reply actions
You can even hide your own comments when you say something stupid :)
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 7, 2010 1:31 PM MST up reply actions
I wish I had that power...
sometimes. Especially when talking to my boss.
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 7, 2010 2:00 PM MST up reply actions
As PF says, we hid a lot of REALLY personal stuff
I think it went beyond the catchers and became a debate of methodologies and ideologies in evaluating batting production, and DIDN’T stay respectful and tempers WEREN’T held in check, so it kind of struck some chords deeper than simply who we like more in the sense of “your way is wrong, you’re wrong”
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 7, 2010 1:17 PM MST up reply actions
yep, a couple of days ago would qualify as past tense
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 7, 2010 1:25 PM MST up reply actions
much like global warming
just because it’s winter doesn’t mean the GCD went away. It still lurks, waiting to emerge every time CDI takes a walk…
ROCKEFELLER!!!
Careful
If you ignite that debate here, I would sentence you to reading every comment on the 9news website about the last storm.
"I clearly miscalculated how popular it would be to show Calvin urinating on a Ford logo"--Bill Watterson
by frightened inmate #2 on Jan 7, 2010 1:47 PM MST up reply actions
SD Cat is right though
The pro McD vs anti McD on MHR was BRUTAL….but they keep the personal stuff on there. That place is a good example of groupthink…here is what they say
“You WILL be POSITIVE about EVERYTHING Broncos or I swear to god I will rip your limbs off…feed them to my dog…then feed you what my dog leaves so you can eat your own limbs….”
Something like that
"Groovy" Ash from Evil Dead 2
"No one came from miles around / and said man your music is really hot" No One Came...Deep Purple
by jpage78 on Jan 7, 2010 2:10 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
OMG!!! ROFL....
that is hysterical…seriously…laughed at that….brilliant
so glad you joined PR
Dear Rockies-Thank you for a wonderful season! Best turnaround in MLB history to become NL Wild Card Champs.
Troy Tulowitzki-MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Garrett Atkins-So Long, Farewell, Auf weidersehen, Goodbye!! You were a great Rockie!
Yorvit Torrealba-Thank you for your clutchiness, en fuegoness and 2 point take down of Matt Kemp!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!
awwwww....well thank you
I feel quite welcome here :) It’s a good feeling
"Groovy" Ash from Evil Dead 2
"No one came from miles around / and said man your music is really hot" No One Came...Deep Purple
NOW BOW BEFORE IANNETTA
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 7, 2010 2:21 PM MST up reply actions
not till you complete that 40 foot golden statue of him
I also heard a rumor you were composing a rousing uplifting rock song detailing his mighty exploits across this great land of ours…
"Groovy" Ash from Evil Dead 2
"No one came from miles around / and said man your music is really hot" No One Came...Deep Purple
that's it
I’m not confiding in you people for anything anymore
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 7, 2010 2:28 PM MST up reply actions
How do your neighbors feel about this statue?
"They fired me for being too old. I'll never make the mistake of turning seventy again." -- Casey Stengel after being let go by the Yankees
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 7, 2010 8:31 PM MST up reply actions
well I have them all under my mind control by now
they all appreciate woba by now
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 7, 2010 8:35 PM MST up reply actions
by now by now by now
yeesh
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 7, 2010 8:36 PM MST up reply actions
the neighbors were mesmerized
by the dreaminess of the statue
Dear Rockies-Thank you for a wonderful season! Best turnaround in MLB history to become NL Wild Card Champs.
Troy Tulowitzki-MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Garrett Atkins-So Long, Farewell, Auf weidersehen, Goodbye!! You were a great Rockie!
Yorvit Torrealba-Thank you for your clutchiness, en fuegoness and 2 point take down of Matt Kemp!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!
So Redhawk is not your neighbor I take it
"They fired me for being too old. I'll never make the mistake of turning seventy again." -- Casey Stengel after being let go by the Yankees
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 7, 2010 8:57 PM MST up reply actions
wow, that sounds awful
here, we’re similar, but it’s less “AGGGGGGG NO ROCKIES NEGATIVITY” but rather “dude, we know that Barmes swings at the slider in the dirt. Let’s get some perspective here.”
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 7, 2010 2:19 PM MST up reply actions
the only time we don't like negativity is during game threads
and everyone is all screw Barmes…he’s a jerk…
that we don’t like so much..:)
Dear Rockies-Thank you for a wonderful season! Best turnaround in MLB history to become NL Wild Card Champs.
Troy Tulowitzki-MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Garrett Atkins-So Long, Farewell, Auf weidersehen, Goodbye!! You were a great Rockie!
Yorvit Torrealba-Thank you for your clutchiness, en fuegoness and 2 point take down of Matt Kemp!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!
that is true
that’s where your annoyingness is parted and the cheeriness breaks through like the sun
(you’re not that annoying I’m just teasing)
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 7, 2010 2:29 PM MST up reply actions
darn....I wanted to be Rookie of the Year/Most Newly Annoying and Cheery...
fffffffffffffffffff
Dear Rockies-Thank you for a wonderful season! Best turnaround in MLB history to become NL Wild Card Champs.
Troy Tulowitzki-MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Garrett Atkins-So Long, Farewell, Auf weidersehen, Goodbye!! You were a great Rockie!
Yorvit Torrealba-Thank you for your clutchiness, en fuegoness and 2 point take down of Matt Kemp!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!
Thanks Muzia!!!
Dear Rockies-Thank you for a wonderful season! Best turnaround in MLB history to become NL Wild Card Champs.
Troy Tulowitzki-MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Garrett Atkins-So Long, Farewell, Auf weidersehen, Goodbye!! You were a great Rockie!
Yorvit Torrealba-Thank you for your clutchiness, en fuegoness and 2 point take down of Matt Kemp!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!
I'd probably vote for you as roty
you or FooMan (I think he was a rookie)
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 7, 2010 2:37 PM MST up reply actions
I think
RhodeIsland should be on the ballot as well. He provides some good perspectives (even if they’re ALLWRONG)
Also, the READandLEARN guy. I’m just throwing that out there.
(Also me, although I’m not very prolific…or relevent, really…)
Saved by the buoyancy of citrus.
well now..if we are going to talk
about insightful perspectives as opposed to prolificness(is that a word)
then I’m screwed…lol
Dear Rockies-Thank you for a wonderful season! Best turnaround in MLB history to become NL Wild Card Champs.
Troy Tulowitzki-MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Garrett Atkins-So Long, Farewell, Auf weidersehen, Goodbye!! You were a great Rockie!
Yorvit Torrealba-Thank you for your clutchiness, en fuegoness and 2 point take down of Matt Kemp!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!
I figured RIR was a september callup
he’ll be eligible next season for it
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 7, 2010 3:09 PM MST up reply actions
I really do think
he was the craftiest troll I’ve ever seen.
Saved by the buoyancy of citrus.
it was hilarious
and infuriating
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 7, 2010 3:31 PM MST up reply actions
Crafty trolls scare me
Bone eating….living under bridges…
"Groovy" Ash from Evil Dead 2
"No one came from miles around / and said man your music is really hot" No One Came...Deep Purple
haha
yeah that guy makes his appearances
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 7, 2010 3:40 PM MST up reply actions
goddamn these are funny
http://i48.tinypic.com/20p94eg.png (too wide to display here)
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 7, 2010 3:51 PM MST up reply actions
The comments in the original post are the greatest thing ever.
Too bad the ultimate greatest comment got deleted. I’m at least glad I was around when it happened. And we’ve still got Franchise’s post in that thread as proof.
I think I missed the greatest comment unfortunately
but I love how the guy continued to log into the Row for a month after these posts. Quite the commitment.
ROCKEFELLER!!!
There are still some pretty great ones left.
And not just his. The whole thread is a riot. I had completely forgotten about the comparison to the shoplifter kid from Empire Records. I think people even started calling him Warren.
We need another good troll around here
That thread – although I wasn’t here yet when it happened – is hilarious. I imagine that there’ll be plenty when next season rolls around, and I’ll be sick of them. But from a comedy standpoint they’re gold.
by controlled_slide on Jan 7, 2010 4:09 PM MST up reply actions
I bet I can still see it
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 7, 2010 3:59 PM MST up reply actions
nahhhh it got deleted
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 7, 2010 4:04 PM MST up reply actions
no seriously this is the funniest crap ever
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 7, 2010 4:09 PM MST up reply actions
I’m pretty proud to be the guy who both captured ‘**** YOUR REPLY LINK’ for posterity and precipitated the ‘read and learn’ comment.
That thread is absolutely legendary.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
^5
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 7, 2010 4:30 PM MST up reply actions
seriously, I wanted to READ and LEARN
about how good Seth Smith is
please tell me i don’t know anything about the guy he plays baseball right
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 7, 2010 7:55 PM MST up reply actions
I really appreciate the nomination
but I have to agree with RMN. I wasn’t here long enough get the award and was more of a September callup.
I consider myself the early favorite for next year’s award though :-)
"They fired me for being too old. I'll never make the mistake of turning seventy again." -- Casey Stengel after being let go by the Yankees
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 7, 2010 8:37 PM MST up reply actions
Where is FooMan btw?
I guess the hot stove season bores him
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 7, 2010 3:43 PM MST up reply actions
it must
he usually comes in to tell me where my articles are wrong
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 7, 2010 3:46 PM MST up reply actions
Maybe you haven't been wrong in a while
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 7, 2010 4:11 PM MST up reply actions
ya thanks
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 7, 2010 4:20 PM MST up reply actions
People were getting mad at Marquis at the end of the year too
"They fired me for being too old. I'll never make the mistake of turning seventy again." -- Casey Stengel after being let go by the Yankees
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 7, 2010 8:32 PM MST up reply actions
I like positivity
with a healthy dose of cynicism…if thats possible
"Groovy" Ash from Evil Dead 2
"No one came from miles around / and said man your music is really hot" No One Came...Deep Purple
i agree...and you've come to the right place for that :)
Dear Rockies-Thank you for a wonderful season! Best turnaround in MLB history to become NL Wild Card Champs.
Troy Tulowitzki-MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Garrett Atkins-So Long, Farewell, Auf weidersehen, Goodbye!! You were a great Rockie!
Yorvit Torrealba-Thank you for your clutchiness, en fuegoness and 2 point take down of Matt Kemp!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!
it is, and I personally promote it
but a lot of posters can’t read any tone into what is typed, so the humorous cynicism is mistook for serious criticism and/or vitriol, and then you get a cavalcade of supporters of the most hardcore fans of that particular player (and yes, every player has them, just ask anyone here about Mike McCoy).
Now that I’ve basically described how any devoted site of any particular team tends to run, be as cynical as you can, I know that at least a handful of our posters will join in.
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 7, 2010 2:33 PM MST up reply actions
I'll draw guns on anyone who speaks ill of
…..Charlie Hayes…..
Kidding
"Groovy" Ash from Evil Dead 2
"No one came from miles around / and said man your music is really hot" No One Came...Deep Purple
I have several of his cards at home
but one day, someone at work walked up to me and said “hey I found this on the floor and I know you like baseball”
A Charlie Hayes card? How random! So I kept it at work
ROCKEFELLER!!!
I'm a Seth Smith fanboy
Love him
"Groovy" Ash from Evil Dead 2
"No one came from miles around / and said man your music is really hot" No One Came...Deep Purple
twRMNs
apologies to charlie77
Dear Rockies-Thank you for a wonderful season! Best turnaround in MLB history to become NL Wild Card Champs.
Troy Tulowitzki-MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Garrett Atkins-So Long, Farewell, Auf weidersehen, Goodbye!! You were a great Rockie!
Yorvit Torrealba-Thank you for your clutchiness, en fuegoness and 2 point take down of Matt Kemp!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!
LOL..
and the revolution begins.
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ain't that the truth
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 7, 2010 7:55 PM MST up reply actions
The best
was sitting with you at a game and McCoy comes in to pinch run, and you stand up and start screaming. Everyone in the section is looking at you thinking “Who the F is Mike McCoy”.
Hating Cubs fans since 1908
I hope he heard me :3
<3<3<3
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 7, 2010 2:38 PM MST up reply actions
I will slap you so super hard
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 7, 2010 2:37 PM MST up reply actions
He alternates as a sometimes Rockie
and Denver Broncos “offensive coordinator”…
"Groovy" Ash from Evil Dead 2
"No one came from miles around / and said man your music is really hot" No One Came...Deep Purple
let's not talk about the broncos
I come here to avoid hearing about that “professional” “team”
ROCKEFELLER!!!
my apologies
so how about those Rapids?
"Groovy" Ash from Evil Dead 2
"No one came from miles around / and said man your music is really hot" No One Came...Deep Purple
they're alright
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 7, 2010 2:48 PM MST up reply actions
Go NUGGETS!!! Go AVS!!!
Dear Rockies-Thank you for a wonderful season! Best turnaround in MLB history to become NL Wild Card Champs.
Troy Tulowitzki-MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Garrett Atkins-So Long, Farewell, Auf weidersehen, Goodbye!! You were a great Rockie!
Yorvit Torrealba-Thank you for your clutchiness, en fuegoness and 2 point take down of Matt Kemp!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!
don't you even associate Mike McCoy the awesome utility AAA guy
with some foobal thing
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 7, 2010 2:42 PM MST up reply actions
I will order that other guy to change his name
"Groovy" Ash from Evil Dead 2
"No one came from miles around / and said man your music is really hot" No One Came...Deep Purple
I get the impression
that Toronto sees him as their MLB Utility guy this year…
Hating Cubs fans since 1908
I KNOW AND IT BURNS ME UP INSIDE
“oh we need a right handed utility guy who can-”
YOU ALREADY HAD HIM YOU FOOLS
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 7, 2010 2:49 PM MST up reply actions
this pre-supposes the Broncos
have an offense that needs coordinating :P
Dear Rockies-Thank you for a wonderful season! Best turnaround in MLB history to become NL Wild Card Champs.
Troy Tulowitzki-MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Garrett Atkins-So Long, Farewell, Auf weidersehen, Goodbye!! You were a great Rockie!
Yorvit Torrealba-Thank you for your clutchiness, en fuegoness and 2 point take down of Matt Kemp!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!
A's resign Jack Cust
well there goes Rox hopes for getting a good DH this year…oh wait…they play in the real baseball league. NM.
Hating Cubs fans since 1908
Okay time for a serious question...
I know there are a few projection systems out there (CHONE, FIGGINS, etc.) Is there one that is consistently better, or is it kind of a crapshoot?
Saved by the buoyancy of citrus.
by Justus on Jan 7, 2010 3:11 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
hehehe
Dear Rockies-Thank you for a wonderful season! Best turnaround in MLB history to become NL Wild Card Champs.
Troy Tulowitzki-MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Garrett Atkins-So Long, Farewell, Auf weidersehen, Goodbye!! You were a great Rockie!
Yorvit Torrealba-Thank you for your clutchiness, en fuegoness and 2 point take down of Matt Kemp!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!
I can't help it.
whenever I see CHONE projections, I think of Chone Figgins, and get thoroughly annoyed by the spelling of his first name all over again.
Anywho, it just seems to me like some systems would be better at projecting players’ performances, taking into account upward and downward trends, figuring out what’s a fluke or not, etc., I just don’t know which ones.
Saved by the buoyancy of citrus.
It's a play on the name Sean
the guy who does the CHONE projections’ name is Sean Smith. I may be stating the obvious here…
Hating Cubs fans since 1908
I actually didn't know that.
I always assumed it stood for something.
Saved by the buoyancy of citrus.
There are others
Nate Silver named PECOTA after Bill Pecota. My favorite is Marcel which Tom Tango named after the monkey on Friends…
Tom Tango is my new hero.
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huh
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 9, 2010 9:26 PM MST up reply actions
Because he's a fan of..
MTV’s ABDC
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CHONE is actually named after Chone Figgins
I’m partial to PECTOA but all the major systems have their strengths & weaknesses.
Is it really?
Maybe if Dan O’Dowd never traded him, he would have flamed out in our system, and the CHONE projections would be just SMITH
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 7, 2010 3:47 PM MST up reply actions
is PECTOA a measure of chest muscles and their contribution to hitting
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 7, 2010 3:49 PM MST up reply actions
LOL!! I'm glad I wasn't the only one thinking along those lines
Dear Rockies-Thank you for a wonderful season! Best turnaround in MLB history to become NL Wild Card Champs.
Troy Tulowitzki-MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Garrett Atkins-So Long, Farewell, Auf weidersehen, Goodbye!! You were a great Rockie!
Yorvit Torrealba-Thank you for your clutchiness, en fuegoness and 2 point take down of Matt Kemp!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!
I don't like any of them
I think they’re all a crapshoot. If you went and summed them all up and averaged them out, you might have something that looks just like the player’s career line.
I always figure you take their career line and just take their season into account, are they old? young? and then just make your own guess. It’ll probably be just about as correct as theirs.
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 7, 2010 3:38 PM MST up reply actions
As I'm sure you know
Fangraphs has fan projections now. I’m very very interested to see how they compare to other systems.
Like you say though, projections are just a scientific guess. It can’t account for intangibles, injuries, etc but can be very useful in getting a sense of what can be expected.
I always figure normalize BABIP, HR/FB%, and then go from there
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 7, 2010 3:43 PM MST up reply actions
I think I'm going to have to take a course on all these metrics
….I was reading the links you guys referred me to…and my eyes were starting to cross. I will work diligently to understand however.
"Groovy" Ash from Evil Dead 2
"No one came from miles around / and said man your music is really hot" No One Came...Deep Purple
READ THEM AGAIN
the idea is with the batting metrics, they’re all there to improve on batting average and put more depth behind them. When you see them, just think Batting Average, in the sense that a higher number is better. If you want to be a bit more specific, the tables at the bottom of both of them kind of give you that scale
the FIP/tRA are just ERA but one is “how good were they without defense” and the other is “what kind of ERA SHOULD they have based on how they pitched” – when you see those, just think ERA as far as scaling, etc goes.
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 7, 2010 3:45 PM MST up reply actions
will do
I’m only 31 but it’s been a good nine years since I seriously looked at stats. It’s just a matter repetition. When I go about this I want to become an expert. Thus why it frustrates me at the beginning.
"Groovy" Ash from Evil Dead 2
"No one came from miles around / and said man your music is really hot" No One Came...Deep Purple
I totally understand, deep end and all that
ask us questions at any point if you get lost
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 7, 2010 3:50 PM MST up reply actions
It feels like longer than a year since I discovered wOBA
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 7, 2010 3:58 PM MST up reply actions
Did your brain do some revised history?
"They fired me for being too old. I'll never make the mistake of turning seventy again." -- Casey Stengel after being let go by the Yankees
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 7, 2010 8:44 PM MST up reply actions
I'd suggest focusing on one or two common stats like OPS
I’d also try to filter out the “w” and “+” adjustments when thinking about them at first. It will be easier to move onto the more advanced stats once you have a feel for a few of the base ones.
Equations tend to throw a lot of people, if so it can help generalizing the main factors that go into a stat and how to use it, rather than a real mathematical understanding.
I plan on using Wins and RBIs more this year.
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 7, 2010 7:56 PM MST up reply actions
I kept trying to jump into the catcher debate..
to show how CDI sucked in clutch avg, but his avg with RISP is actually pretty good.
With RISP – .268
2/outs RISP – .311
but..
Whenever he bats with 2 strikes his average drops to .154 Barmes hits .210 w/2 strikes.
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what's league average on 2 strikes
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 7, 2010 8:36 PM MST up reply actions
The Rockies team avg was .197 in 09.
…the league average was .183 last year.
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what was Yorvit's with 2 strikes?
Dear Rockies-Thank you for a wonderful season! Best turnaround in MLB history to become NL Wild Card Champs.
Troy Tulowitzki-MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Garrett Atkins-So Long, Farewell, Auf weidersehen, Goodbye!! You were a great Rockie!
Yorvit Torrealba-Thank you for your clutchiness, en fuegoness and 2 point take down of Matt Kemp!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!
yay barmes is above average!
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 7, 2010 9:49 PM MST up reply actions
O_O yikes...
Dear Rockies-Thank you for a wonderful season! Best turnaround in MLB history to become NL Wild Card Champs.
Troy Tulowitzki-MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Garrett Atkins-So Long, Farewell, Auf weidersehen, Goodbye!! You were a great Rockie!
Yorvit Torrealba-Thank you for your clutchiness, en fuegoness and 2 point take down of Matt Kemp!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!
IAWTC
The concepts are more important to understand than the equations. Most Saber stats kind of build off of each other so take them one or two at a time.
"They fired me for being too old. I'll never make the mistake of turning seventy again." -- Casey Stengel after being let go by the Yankees
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 7, 2010 8:46 PM MST up reply actions
That's what I was inclined to believe, I just wasn't completely sure...
(Disclaimer: DUH statement coming) but some things can be projected into a trend, some things just can’t. Like if you look at Tulo’s bad starts, you can explain all of them (2007: Rookie season/adjusting to major league pitching, 2008: injury, 2009: batting stance issues) and it kind of makes me wonder if Tulo isn’t due to burn everything up in April and May this year.
I just realized, I don’t really have a point here, just pondering.
/wanders off to re-read hilarious troll posts.
Saved by the buoyancy of citrus.
I'll probably try that
I’m not confused so much as there’s alot of minutia.
"Groovy" Ash from Evil Dead 2
"No one came from miles around / and said man your music is really hot" No One Came...Deep Purple
sorry....this was mean to be a reply
my bad
"Groovy" Ash from Evil Dead 2
"No one came from miles around / and said man your music is really hot" No One Came...Deep Purple
OT but - I'm going to my first ice hockey game!
In Helsinki, the night we arrive. When we went to NYC last January, we spent our first night at a Knicks game.
That means, when added to the New Britain Rock Cats baseball game I saw in 2006, and the Bucs Vs Pats game played at Wembley a couple of months ago, I’ll have seen games in all four of the American sports!
You're almost more American than Silverblood now
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 7, 2010 4:01 PM MST up reply actions
"niche sport played by foreigners"
Dear Rockies-Thank you for a wonderful season! Best turnaround in MLB history to become NL Wild Card Champs.
Troy Tulowitzki-MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Garrett Atkins-So Long, Farewell, Auf weidersehen, Goodbye!! You were a great Rockie!
Yorvit Torrealba-Thank you for your clutchiness, en fuegoness and 2 point take down of Matt Kemp!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!
lol man
Dear Rockies-Thank you for a wonderful season! Best turnaround in MLB history to become NL Wild Card Champs.
Troy Tulowitzki-MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Garrett Atkins-So Long, Farewell, Auf weidersehen, Goodbye!! You were a great Rockie!
Yorvit Torrealba-Thank you for your clutchiness, en fuegoness and 2 point take down of Matt Kemp!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!
hook em horns!!!
Dear Rockies-Thank you for a wonderful season! Best turnaround in MLB history to become NL Wild Card Champs.
Troy Tulowitzki-MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Garrett Atkins-So Long, Farewell, Auf weidersehen, Goodbye!! You were a great Rockie!
Yorvit Torrealba-Thank you for your clutchiness, en fuegoness and 2 point take down of Matt Kemp!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!
Poor Colt..:(
Poor freshman QB:(
but that was a nice little gain there…
watch out Mr. Man….the comeback is nye…
Dear Rockies-Thank you for a wonderful season! Best turnaround in MLB history to become NL Wild Card Champs.
Troy Tulowitzki-MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Garrett Atkins-So Long, Farewell, Auf weidersehen, Goodbye!! You were a great Rockie!
Yorvit Torrealba-Thank you for your clutchiness, en fuegoness and 2 point take down of Matt Kemp!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!
brick by brick...!!!!
Dear Rockies-Thank you for a wonderful season! Best turnaround in MLB history to become NL Wild Card Champs.
Troy Tulowitzki-MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Garrett Atkins-So Long, Farewell, Auf weidersehen, Goodbye!! You were a great Rockie!
Yorvit Torrealba-Thank you for your clutchiness, en fuegoness and 2 point take down of Matt Kemp!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!
turning it on now
"They fired me for being too old. I'll never make the mistake of turning seventy again." -- Casey Stengel after being let go by the Yankees
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 7, 2010 9:39 PM MST up reply actions
This is getting interesting now
"They fired me for being too old. I'll never make the mistake of turning seventy again." -- Casey Stengel after being let go by the Yankees
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 7, 2010 9:44 PM MST up reply actions
I'm just really rooting for a good game
and for the Big 12
Dear Rockies-Thank you for a wonderful season! Best turnaround in MLB history to become NL Wild Card Champs.
Troy Tulowitzki-MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Garrett Atkins-So Long, Farewell, Auf weidersehen, Goodbye!! You were a great Rockie!
Yorvit Torrealba-Thank you for your clutchiness, en fuegoness and 2 point take down of Matt Kemp!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!
maybe not...if defense can keep it to a field goal
Dear Rockies-Thank you for a wonderful season! Best turnaround in MLB history to become NL Wild Card Champs.
Troy Tulowitzki-MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Garrett Atkins-So Long, Farewell, Auf weidersehen, Goodbye!! You were a great Rockie!
Yorvit Torrealba-Thank you for your clutchiness, en fuegoness and 2 point take down of Matt Kemp!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!
too bad....
Dear Rockies-Thank you for a wonderful season! Best turnaround in MLB history to become NL Wild Card Champs.
Troy Tulowitzki-MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Garrett Atkins-So Long, Farewell, Auf weidersehen, Goodbye!! You were a great Rockie!
Yorvit Torrealba-Thank you for your clutchiness, en fuegoness and 2 point take down of Matt Kemp!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!
well boo...fumble...
Dear Rockies-Thank you for a wonderful season! Best turnaround in MLB history to become NL Wild Card Champs.
Troy Tulowitzki-MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Garrett Atkins-So Long, Farewell, Auf weidersehen, Goodbye!! You were a great Rockie!
Yorvit Torrealba-Thank you for your clutchiness, en fuegoness and 2 point take down of Matt Kemp!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!
not getting crushed...
Dear Rockies-Thank you for a wonderful season! Best turnaround in MLB history to become NL Wild Card Champs.
Troy Tulowitzki-MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Garrett Atkins-So Long, Farewell, Auf weidersehen, Goodbye!! You were a great Rockie!
Yorvit Torrealba-Thank you for your clutchiness, en fuegoness and 2 point take down of Matt Kemp!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!
crushed
Purple Row: Take this personally
http://www.youtube.com/user/rockiesmagicnumber
Learn about Batting Metrics
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 7, 2010 9:50 PM MST up reply actions
not yet!!
Dear Rockies-Thank you for a wonderful season! Best turnaround in MLB history to become NL Wild Card Champs.
Troy Tulowitzki-MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Garrett Atkins-So Long, Farewell, Auf weidersehen, Goodbye!! You were a great Rockie!
Yorvit Torrealba-Thank you for your clutchiness, en fuegoness and 2 point take down of Matt Kemp!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!
yet...:(
Dear Rockies-Thank you for a wonderful season! Best turnaround in MLB history to become NL Wild Card Champs.
Troy Tulowitzki-MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Garrett Atkins-So Long, Farewell, Auf weidersehen, Goodbye!! You were a great Rockie!
Yorvit Torrealba-Thank you for your clutchiness, en fuegoness and 2 point take down of Matt Kemp!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!

"They fired me for being too old. I'll never make the mistake of turning seventy again." -- Casey Stengel after being let go by the Yankees
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 7, 2010 10:02 PM MST up reply actions
well, the freshman QB was admirable in tough spot....
Dear Rockies-Thank you for a wonderful season! Best turnaround in MLB history to become NL Wild Card Champs.
Troy Tulowitzki-MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Garrett Atkins-So Long, Farewell, Auf weidersehen, Goodbye!! You were a great Rockie!
Yorvit Torrealba-Thank you for your clutchiness, en fuegoness and 2 point take down of Matt Kemp!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!
Yes
Although it ended really ugly
"They fired me for being too old. I'll never make the mistake of turning seventy again." -- Casey Stengel after being let go by the Yankees
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 7, 2010 10:07 PM MST up reply actions
That would have been an unbelieveable story though
"They fired me for being too old. I'll never make the mistake of turning seventy again." -- Casey Stengel after being let go by the Yankees
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 7, 2010 10:08 PM MST up reply actions
Boise State should be the..
National Champs!
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this
Dear Rockies-Thank you for a wonderful season! Best turnaround in MLB history to become NL Wild Card Champs.
Troy Tulowitzki-MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Garrett Atkins-So Long, Farewell, Auf weidersehen, Goodbye!! You were a great Rockie!
Yorvit Torrealba-Thank you for your clutchiness, en fuegoness and 2 point take down of Matt Kemp!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!
They should get to play Alabama after tonight
I’d actually watch that game
"They fired me for being too old. I'll never make the mistake of turning seventy again." -- Casey Stengel after being let go by the Yankees
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 7, 2010 8:51 PM MST up reply actions
unless they get to play Texas :)
Texas is picking away…
Dear Rockies-Thank you for a wonderful season! Best turnaround in MLB history to become NL Wild Card Champs.
Troy Tulowitzki-MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Garrett Atkins-So Long, Farewell, Auf weidersehen, Goodbye!! You were a great Rockie!
Yorvit Torrealba-Thank you for your clutchiness, en fuegoness and 2 point take down of Matt Kemp!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!
So if Alabama killed Texas..
and was killed by Utah last year, what does that make Utah?
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Utah.
NEVER SURRENDER DREAMS
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.
Nothing (or what Russ said)
They beat them last year. (OR two years ago now)
"The Dodgers are such a .500 team that if there was a way to split a three-game series, they'd find it." Vin Scully: On-Air Radio Broadcast (1990)
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 8, 2010 11:48 PM MST up reply actions
The Utah Attorney General is suing the BCS..
for anti-trust stating the University of Utah lost millions of dollars last year because it was not given a shot at the national title. I think he has a good case after the team Utah beat just won the National Title. Heck, Boise State could have beat Alabama IMO.
"They’re elitists. They think they’re above it all. And if teams do well enough and go undefeated like Utah did last year and TCU and Boise State has done now two years in a row we may let you play for the table scraps. And it really is table scraps when you see the hundreds of millions of dollars that go out to all the conferences all the schools in the preferred conferences and how little bit the non-preferred schools get." ~ Attorney General Mark Shurtleff said.
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I hope they win
Anything that make the BCS look bad makes me happy.
"The Dodgers are such a .500 team that if there was a way to split a three-game series, they'd find it." Vin Scully: On-Air Radio Broadcast (1990)
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 9, 2010 1:03 AM MST up reply actions
GO FOOBAL
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 7, 2010 7:57 PM MST up reply actions
Go away football
I want baseball back
"They fired me for being too old. I'll never make the mistake of turning seventy again." -- Casey Stengel after being let go by the Yankees
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 7, 2010 8:52 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Just a heads-up, Jerry Schemmel has officially been hired to replace Jeff Kingery in the radio booth.
nkrause has a FanPost up with the story.
I should change my profile page...
I’m going to miss Mr. Kingery
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I will also
But only hypothetically. I don’t listen to games anymore, as I live well out of radio range.
by controlled_slide on Jan 7, 2010 7:08 PM MST up reply actions
You can if you go to
freeballradio.com. Thats what I do when I’m not at home and can’t see the game.
"They fired me for being too old. I'll never make the mistake of turning seventy again." -- Casey Stengel after being let go by the Yankees
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 7, 2010 8:54 PM MST up reply actions
Of course you can't see how it works now because there's no games but check it out during the season
"They fired me for being too old. I'll never make the mistake of turning seventy again." -- Casey Stengel after being let go by the Yankees
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 7, 2010 8:55 PM MST up reply actions
Is it legal?
I mean, you have to pay for the MLB radio on MLB.com, so how can they do it for free?
by controlled_slide on Jan 7, 2010 8:56 PM MST up reply actions
I don't know
All I know is that it works. (About 90% of the time)
"They fired me for being too old. I'll never make the mistake of turning seventy again." -- Casey Stengel after being let go by the Yankees
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 7, 2010 8:57 PM MST up reply actions
It's definitely not legal.
It tends to be smaller, rural stations that should be turning off their stream but don’t. I’ve done it a couple times when Gameday Audio wasn’t working, but I’m anal about that kind of thing, so I buy Gameday Audio for the season.
Yeah, I've been thinking about getting MLB.tv
Or Gameday audio. I’m not the sort to get the shady version.
by controlled_slide on Jan 7, 2010 9:10 PM MST up reply actions
Hey, hey,hey
When it comes to the Rockies I will get my fill through any means necessary. :-)
"They fired me for being too old. I'll never make the mistake of turning seventy again." -- Casey Stengel after being let go by the Yankees
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 7, 2010 9:13 PM MST up reply actions
Just use Gameday
It’s a little boring, but free.
by controlled_slide on Jan 7, 2010 9:13 PM MST up reply actions
Plus, then you can get excited
By dorky things like when the little box says “In play, run(s)”. It’s strangely exhilarating.
by controlled_slide on Jan 7, 2010 9:19 PM MST up reply actions
Lmao exactly :P
That’s what I’m forced to do for about every single Rockies game unless we play the Giants, Braves, or Cubs or lucky enough to be aired by FOX or ESPN. But that hardly happens..so I don’t see a whole lot of games really.
Remember old folks, I'm just 18 years old =]
by CentralCaliRox on Jan 7, 2010 11:58 PM MST up reply actions
I use both
It’s really funny when gameday and the announcer don’t agree on pitch location
"They fired me for being too old. I'll never make the mistake of turning seventy again." -- Casey Stengel after being let go by the Yankees
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 7, 2010 9:23 PM MST up reply actions
That's too bad
I have some great memories listening to games there including the 22 inning game
"They fired me for being too old. I'll never make the mistake of turning seventy again." -- Casey Stengel after being let go by the Yankees
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 7, 2010 9:10 PM MST up reply actions



















