Thursday Rockpile: Leaving no stone unturned, Rockies look into Justin Upton and Gavin Floyd
by Rox Girl on Nov 18, 2010 8:15 AM MST
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PrintAs Andrew Martin posted last night, yesterday brought a flurry of Rockies related notes from the GM meetings. My guess is that the quick developments of the week, those that saw four relatively competitive NL teams (Atlanta, Florida, Los Angeles and San Diego) make significant moves, and the dwindling prospects of bringing Jorge De La Rosa back have pushed Dan O'Dowd into the fray to feel out all possible alternatives to building a competitive 2011 team at the price the Rockies can manage.
The price point seems to be the key for the club, even though it seems to be getting lost on most fans who would have the team spend money that doesn't appear to be there. Last night, however, brought us wind of the Rockies interest in two players who are not only All-Star caliber, but also within salary bounds, the Diamondbacks' Justin Upton and the White Sox' Gavin Floyd.
What adding that punk Justin Upton would mean to the Rockies.
Dan Uggla is expected to earn from $12 million up to $14 million in arbitration this winter. Buster Olney reported earlier this week that this price was beyond what the Rockies were able to pay. Justin Upton, meanwhile, will earn $4.46 million in 2011, a figure that the Rockies indicated to Troy Renck would push the overall player payroll to $86 million, which is a bit more than the $85 million figure we heard, but close enough for the Monforts to see it as feasible.
So, let's review what we've learned in the Rockies pursuit of a bat:
- Dan Uggla - $12 million, not feasible within the Rockies $85 million budget
- Victor Martinez - potentially feasible within the Rockies $85 million budget
- Justin Upton - $4.5 million, feasible, but just outside the Rockies $85 million budget
Doing the math, the Rockies must have set aside some money in their budget specifically for a catcher in 2011, from which Martinez would have drawn, which is why they would have felt they had a shot at him before the Tigers (who just shelled out $16.5 million for a reliever yesterday) and Red Sox expressed a desire to get into a bidding war for his services. Meanwhile, the team didn't set aside money to pursue a second baseman, so Uggla's acquisition would have prevented the team from filling said catcher post or acquiring a quality starter.
So the Justin Upton news is interesting to me on multiple levels, first because the implication of adding him pushing the Rockies over budget is that they would add not only Upton, but still pursue a quality starter and a catcher via free agency or separate trades. With Uggla and Martinez, their acquisitions would mean taking money, and presumably quality, from other positions. That doesn't seem to be the case here.
The cost in trade for Upton would be steep, as they seem to be looking for five young players or prospects (and may not be willing to trade Upton within the division at all, according to Jon Heyman, who seems to be unaware of his team friendly contract status). I said a couple of weeks ago that I'd never want to see the Rockies trade more than three players or prospects for any one MLB player and that I'd only go up to three for a select few, but Upton might be the exception. Playing armchair GM, I'd try and keep Jhoulys Chacin and Wil Rosario off limits (or maybe include one of the two in a four for one deal) but otherwise, I'd be very flexible for somebody of his caliber. A Tulo, CarGo, Upton heart of the order for the next three or four seasons would be the best in the MLB (probably why the D-backs don't want to trade him to us).
What about Gavin Floyd?
Floyd is also very intriguing to me as a De La Rosa replacement. At $5 million in salary in 2011, Floyd comes in at such a reasonable cost that the Rockies could afford to trade Ian Stewart plus for him and then put the savings into a replacement third baseman. Despite relatively low win totals Floyd's been a four plus WAR (according to FanGraphs, 3.5 according to B-Ref) quality starter the past two seasons, which is a borderline All-Star, and he easily slots as a number two starter in a National League rotation. 27 years old, Floyd's in his prime and bargain priced for the next two seasons. So what's not to like?
Adding both would drain the minor league system in ways I'd never would have considered, but these are two clear impact players that would transform the Rockies into a team that projects to win around 95 games over the next couple of seasons and the financial flexibility involved with their contracts should give the franchise a buffer to make additional moves while they rebuild the farm.
Before you get too far overboard with speculation
Any one of these moves (add them to potentially trading for James Shields or Matt Garza or Mike Napoli) is unlikely on their own, but the volume of rumors suggests that the Rockies will make at least one impact trade this winter.
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the volume of rumors suggests that the Rockies will make at least one impact trade this winter.
I’m holding out hope, but I’ll believe it when I see it. O’Dowd’s quote in the DP fan chat that dealing prospects and removing quality minor league depth is "just not something we are willing to do" came off stronger than posturing to me. Doing due diligence and checking the price on everything is just smart, but that hardly means a deal will actually be struck.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 18, 2010 8:24 AM MST reply actions
Maybe not, but
I still find the apparent shift in focus to be encouraging. A few weeks ago, it seemed like Plan A was to sign Victor Martinez and shoehorn him into the lineup in a manner that wouldn’t offend anyone. Plan B was to resume dumpster diving operations in search of a Jorga Cantu or Conor Jackson.
Now the Rockies seem more open to the idea of acquiring a full-time impact player, not just a platoon partner, a spare part or a bounceback candidate.
by Rockpile Interloper on Nov 18, 2010 8:30 AM MST up reply actions
I was about to post the same exact thing
I see this more as doing your job as a GM rather than actually setting up the possibility of an impact trade. The extremity of the market in the first week, along with the scarcity of impact players in the market makes for a terrifying time to deal.
We can’t sit put, but knowing DOD’s hesitancy to part with farm pieces, I don’t see us making any major moves this offseason.
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Hates Tulo. Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
OT Thread?
This chili relleno burito is hotter than a PR blogger after Dan Uggla got traded to another team not named the Rockies
The Big Purple Machine will make a believer outta you!
Would a package of
Nelson, Rogers, Freidrich, Blackmon and Nicasio get it done for Upton?
You can ask AZSnakepit
but I doubt it. That’s a very liberal use of the “two MLB players” request in that neither are really established. Then it’s a 4th OF type with maybe starting potential, a pitcher with significant elbow problems and a 24 year old prospect who as yet to reach AA. At least, that’s how it’d be seen down south
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 18, 2010 8:31 AM MST up reply actions
My initial gut instinct was no as well,
but it’s actually probably not that far off, it depends on what their scouts think of the players involved as all five are MLB quality to some extent, and a couple with some very solid potential. I’m not sure it would get done without Chacin, though.
I think it could be close for a non division team
But it’s doesn’t have the inner division markup that would make it realistic.
Florida completely disproved the inner-division markup theory
However, the Marlins are stupid, so it probably doesn’t count.
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
And really, would dealing Chacin for Upton help in 2011 that much either?
Upton was a 3.1 WAR player in 2010. Chacin was 3.0 in just 21 starts. Granted the gap should widen with regression but I’m not sure I like dealing Chacin
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 18, 2010 8:37 AM MST up reply actions
Regression should be covered by increased playing time
I say Chacin remains a 3 war player. Upton would probably jump up to 4 though, if re rebounds from 2010.
thats what i mean
That 0.1 WAR gap would widen
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 18, 2010 8:49 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
This is, of course
Assuming that Upton’s shoulder problems are not serious and he actually breaks through to his elite potential.
These questions will ultimately drive his price down.
If it was just 2011, I'd be more hesitant.
But through 2014, the WAR difference between Upton and Chacin could be huge.
On the other hand
Trying to replace Chacin, JDLR and Francis with…..what…..
I think it hurts our 2011 severely.
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
I really would be excited about Upton but
I wouldnt be if we had to give up either Chacin or Matzek at this point.
I think that's the biggest obstacle here
It’s hard for me to see the D’Backs trading Upton to the Rockies without getting Chacin back and it’s hard for me to see the Rockies dealing Chacin.
If this is true, no deal is happening.
135 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 18, 2010 9:43 AM MST up reply actions
I'd rather have one of eight hitters hitting a replacement-level .200 instead of .300
than having the starting pitcher give up a run an inning rather than 1/2 a run. Trying to compete with a sub-strength rotation will cripple this team, even if the hitting is non-negligibly improved
I've been thinking
remember how there was talk earlier this year about how CarGo’s splits were huge but that he represented an ideal player for Colorado thus it makes sense to acquire players like that. I’m wondering if the FO has decided that pitching translates better on the road than hitting and is willing to live with a weaker offense if it means improved and balanced pitching…
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
No chance. Right now, with injury history, those are all complementary pieces
Arizona wants two centerpieces in any trade.
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Hates Tulo. Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
I agree it's not quite enough, but Friedrich really isn't a complementary piece, even with his injury history.
And Nelson still has a lot of fans. You’ll just have to trust me that as a group, these players look a lot worse on paper with their stats than they do to professional scouts. I think it gets nixed by the D-backs PR department for the reasons you assert, there needs to be some sort of marquee “get” by them beyond Friedrich, but this would beat a lot of teams’ best possible offers.
I don't doubt that this would beat most team's offers
but I still think Friedrich, with the season he just had, isn’t a big enough centerpiece.
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Hates Tulo. Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
The Rockies should build a package for Upton
around Omar Infante and Michael Dunn.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
would Rosario even be considered a marquee "get"
Seems like such a deal would require Matzek or Chacin plus 3-4 legit players. for what its worth, Renck tweeted the rockies won’t trade Matzek or Chacin for anyone, though that sounds like personal opinion. He also said they won’t trade Friedrich. So…
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 18, 2010 8:54 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
Rosario definitely should
He’s a quality defensive catcher with middle of the order power potential, probably one of the top two or three catching prospects in the game, and he may be the best if you’re being pragmatic about players who actually figure to wind up at the position.
i wont argue he is deserving, but is he really seen that way?
He doesn’t seem to get the buzz he deserves, and he was completely left off a notable list of top catching prospects in the league. A minor league writer/scout I follow even said his bat still needs a lot of work
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 18, 2010 9:11 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
Who's list was he left off?
It’s a pretty glaring omission and actually says more about whoever made the list than it does about Rosario. And, yeah, his bat does need work, but the raw power and defensive quality make up for it. If he’s recovering as well from his ACL surgery as has been indicated, he should be among the top 50 prospects in the MLB.
damn
not even an honorable mention
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
Arencibia, huh? Is he still considered a prospect?
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Hates Tulo. Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
well he just got his callup in Toronto
has all of 37PA to his name
I’d still call him a prospect
by Andrew Martin on Nov 18, 2010 9:27 AM MST up reply actions
Still a rookie, so I guess
Either way, I’m not going to determine trade value based on a poor article written by someone I’ve never heard of.
The discussion forum on that article didn't help my opinion of the writer.
A couple of people pointed out that Rosario had been omitted from the list, and the guy who wrote it basically commented back “If you think Rosario belongs on this list you’ve obviously never watched him play.”
I was trying to figure out what in Rosario’s play would convince the guy that he’s not a top catching prospect.
the same guy said that EY2 was a Top 100 prospect
him and Matzek were the ones he put on his list.
http://projectprospect.com/article/2010/11/14/2010-digital-prospect-guide-top-100-write-ups
by black_knight101 on Nov 18, 2010 9:39 AM MST up reply actions
Um. Yep, that's all I need to know.
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Hates Tulo. Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
oh im not basing Rosario's trade value solely or largely on that bozo's opinion
I was just using it as an example to question just how highly Rosario was regarded outside the purple circle.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 18, 2010 9:55 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
So if the Rockies value Chacin more than any other team (or at least as much as any other team)
Any deal that may involve him is going to be really tough to pull off right?
135 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 18, 2010 10:02 AM MST up reply actions
Yes and no.
I think what I’m saying is that I get the impression that Rosario is a more universally liked young prospect within the game while the opinions of Chacin are a bit more mixed. The Rockies aren’t alone in liking him as much as they do, but there’s also a pool that’s still very skeptical that he’s more than a fourth starter. I think most AL clubs would value him lower than we do, for instance.
So it depends on the team we’re dealing with as to how high they’re going to value him.
Question is why he's still considered a catcher.
Same goes with Montero and Myers. Conger’s borderline and these rankings are clearly entirely neglecting defensive value. I’ll assert that Rosario’s got a win plus handicap on all five of these guys on defense before you get to what they’re going to do at the plate.
thats not as notable as i thought it was
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 18, 2010 9:29 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
im probably just following the wrong people on twitter
Because I see an awful lot of love for Montero and Romine and no love for Rosario from anyone not on purple row
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 18, 2010 9:31 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
there needs to be more people outside of Colorado paying attention to the rockies
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 18, 2010 9:37 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
Yes, there needs to be
But, sadly, thats not the case. Mainstream media will continue to prop up and way overhype whatever in in the Yanksox systems.
I know that Law does, at least prospects, but that's also his bent.
But considering the farm that Colorado’s boasted the past 7 years, as well as the drafts the Rockies just had, yeah, you’d think more attention would be due.
by Andrew Martin on Nov 18, 2010 9:39 AM MST up reply actions
I wonder if this impacts the way our prospects are viewed
by people who matter.
I guess theoretically it would be better if our prospects were over-hyped so we could oversell them…
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
I really doubt it
I can’t imagine a major league team giving any credit to the media’s view on prospects.
I def would agree
that they wouldn’t in any explicit way. But I wonder how insulated GM’s really are from media hype and such…
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
the Uggla trade proves this
As did the most recent Dan Haren trade. Teams are more willing to trust their scouts over what the prospect watchers are saying, so it’s likely that a system like Colorado’s is more valuable in trade than prospect fans realize.
that was the root of my question
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 18, 2010 9:51 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
Montero's got a special bat, don't get me wrong.
It would play as a significant asset anywhere on the field, he’s just not long for the position of catcher. Maybe an MLB season or two, tops.
If they're really looking for major league prospects
I might try to throw Smith in there in lieu of someone else like Nicasio or Rogers. I know he’s not a big name, but he is immediate talent – that might account for something provided the rest of the names are good.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
dont forget, Smith has crushed Arizona in his career
They might like him more than they ordinarily would
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 18, 2010 8:57 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
I'd add Smith in a heartbeat
Even if they don’t want him, I could see him being shipped out in a separate deal if we landed Upton.
I'd probably start structuring
it with Smith, Blackmon, Friedrich, Brothers, and someone from our 2b pileup.
Smith and Blackmon become fully expendable once we have a Cargo/Fowler/Upton OF. Brothers is a reliever which = liquidity.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
That would be great
If I’m a GM, I’m not necessarily concerned with who I’m giving up, but rather who I’m giving up in relation to how they fit on the roster. EY2 is definitely another guy who is fairly expendable.
And to your point below, yea it is true that Upton has had an injury history – do we remember what they were? Because that could be an issue.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
Now that we're talking Smith, Young, Friedrich and Brothers
I can start to get behind the move. I’d like to keep Blackmon for now but if that’s the deal breaker, so be it.
But I’d hate to part with Rosario under any circumstances. He was such an easy choice for me for #1 PuRP, and he’s basically got a ready-made place on the team unless CDI finally manages to put it all together.
Again this is also dependent upon
the DBacks being kind of stupid and not realizing they’re going to be giving up a franchise player for a bunch of good players who really don’t matter much to a division rival.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
I think he has has some hip problems
And he had a slightly torn labrum in his shoulder at some point.
ah those are shitty
I was hoping he just got hit by a pitch or something more flukey… Funny (or maybe completely unsurprising) that both him and BJ had shoulder problems.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
well its definitely something worth looking at
but if the opportunity presents itself we need to make the trade
by black_knight101 on Nov 18, 2010 9:17 AM MST up reply actions
I doubt it would, but I would make that trade in a heartbeat.
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
Dexter
My fear is that any talks would start with Dexter Fowler. He’d be the definition of young MLB player who could step in where Upton was. Plus it’d still take some of those guys you mentioned. I’d have no problem dealing Freidrich and/or Matzek, but would draw the line at Fowler, Chacin, and Rosario (just because I think his value is still underrated outside the team). This is no slight on Friedrich or Matzek. I think they are both great prospects, but they also strike me as the type of dominant pitcher that would be more likely to succeed and more valuable to a team that doesn’t play at Coors. Also no slight on the new humidified Coors, but Friedrich’s curveball and Matzek potential control issues might be a bit better suited someplace with a bit less rarified air.
The other thought I have is Hammel. Would they have an interest in a young established pitcher that they could play or flip for prospects? I’d only do this if JDLR is coming back, but it might be a way to meet the cost without entirely draining the farm.
I would consider moving Hammel
And Arizona may have some interest. They did take Sounders in return for Haren, after all. But year, I would want to get DLR back if that were the case.
you act like Saunders was the main get for Haren
He was probably the least important piece of the trade, certainly behind the Ptbnl
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 18, 2010 1:09 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Fowler
I would actually be quite fine including Fowler in a deal for Upton. To be perfectly honest, Fowler can be replaced very easily with Cargo in Center.
Rosario, on the other hand, doesn’t seem to be nearly as “replaceable.” Our Catcher spot has been in flux since Charles Johnson, and we’ve had a harder time developing Catchers. Matzek seems like he has a rediculously high ceiling and would be harder to replace in the system.
An outfield of Cargo, Upton, Spilly/Smith sounds VERY enticing to me at this point.
So, if we were to put together a package that was Dex, Friedrich, EY2, and Rogers I would be good with that.
by attackparrot on Nov 18, 2010 2:29 PM MST up reply actions
Charles Johnson was
never the answer at C.
With those who don't give a damn about baseball, I can only sympathize. I do not resent them. I am even willing to concede that many of them are physically clean, good to their mothers and in favor of world peace. But while the game is on, I can't think of anything to say to them. ~Art Hill
JFK
Our catcher's spot has always been in flux, always
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
kind of like 2B?
I think we should fix that to some extent.
With those who don't give a damn about baseball, I can only sympathize. I do not resent them. I am even willing to concede that many of them are physically clean, good to their mothers and in favor of world peace. But while the game is on, I can't think of anything to say to them. ~Art Hill
JFK
I'd say quite a bit more than 2B, actually
At least in our early years, EY1 had it for what, four years? But yeah, 2B hasn’t been a font of stability, either.
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
You could also say
that Mike Lansing was pretty “stable” as well seeing how he played 3 years of 2B for us.
With those who don't give a damn about baseball, I can only sympathize. I do not resent them. I am even willing to concede that many of them are physically clean, good to their mothers and in favor of world peace. But while the game is on, I can't think of anything to say to them. ~Art Hill
JFK
Yeah, I was going to include him, but couldn't remember if he played two or three
I wasn’t going to consider two years as stable.
But yeah.
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
good point...
C and 2B have always been our nemesis. of course, so was OF until Matt Holliday…
my concern is
Rosario : Catcher spot
what
Holliday : OF
by attackparrot on Nov 18, 2010 2:51 PM MST up reply actions
If we are going to trade top level prospects...
why wouldn’t we pursue Greinke? I understand his salary is considerable for the next two seasons, but his cost in prospects is probably far less than Upton. I would prefer Greinke over Upton at this point.
Well, Upton is under contract for five more seasons
Greinke is for two. The reason why he’s worth more prospects is also the reason he would be more desirable. He could even be flipped to Boston in 2-3 seasons for prospects when he gets expensive if you wanted.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 18, 2010 8:32 AM MST up reply actions
As Andrew mentions, the contract is a big key, but additionally, trading for pitchers is scary.
There’s too much that can go wrong. Not that there isn’t a lot that can go wrong with any trade like this, but the risks involved are much less for position players.
I asked Renck for clarification about uping the payrol for a 4.5 million dollar commitment
And he said it was overall contract. This leads me to believe he is referring to later in Upton’s contract when he will be payed 14 million, and not next year, when he would comfortably fit.
the linked article refers specifically to this year
or else the whole $86 million budget conversation is completely non-sensical.
Do we have any idea what the asking price for Gavin Floyd would be?
I like the idea of getting him very much, but does a deal basically start with including Stewart?
If we do deal for Floyd, I think it needs to be prospects only
I believe that there is no decent replacement for Stewart. Kevin Kouzmanoff would be a pretty big step down to me.
Meh ...
Melvin friggin Mora was the better player for much of the season, even when Stew was healthy. Not a big deal.
by BostonTransplant on Nov 18, 2010 8:51 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
If you really go month by month with his numbers
it was just June that destroyed his year.
If you remove June from the season and extrapolate his remaining numbers over 160 games, he would have bat .275 with like 28 home runs and something like an .830 OPS. That plus his plus defense makes me hesitant to trade Stewart – we need offense and Stew seems more like a buy low candidate…
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
While I agree it's worth it to trade Stewart for Floyd,
you’re really undervaluing Ian and his contribution with this comment.
Really don't think so
Overvaluing guys who happened to come through your own system plus an aversion to risk equals always falling short. In life as in baseball.
I’m not dissing Ian, just seeing him for what he is, at least IMO: A very pitchable fastball and mistakes hitter who doesn’t make adjustments but can hit a ball a mile if you give in or think you can blow one by him. Took the league a while, but now the book is in. He’s just a highly replaceable piece. Doesn’t mean he’s not a solid major leaguer. Just means other guys can take his place.
by BostonTransplant on Nov 18, 2010 9:22 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
This is different than saying Melvin Mora was the better player.
I’m not really arguing with this assessment. Stewart’s not a star, but his bat (particularly his ability to hit better on the road than any Rockie besides Tulo) plus his defense make him valuable as a major league starter. Mora’s a backup at this point, nothing more.
yup
Although Mora was more than good enough as a RH platoon part. Him and Herrera would not equal Stewart, but I don’t think it would kill us.
by BostonTransplant on Nov 18, 2010 10:06 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
I really believe in Stewart's potential and would not trade him for Floyd straight up.
Maybe I’m being a homer, but I think Stewart’s bat will be more valuable next year than Floyd’s arm AND we control him through 2014 vs. 2013 (with option) for Floyd.
The writer formerly known as Jabberwocky
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by Jeff Aberle on Nov 18, 2010 10:23 AM MST up reply actions
I agree that it's a significant step up
And normally I would say it would be worth it. However, I just can’t see us having this big of a hole at the corner infields. I can live with 1B being nothing, but not 1B and 3B.
I think we can work it out, though.
Miguel Tejada in particular would be a nice fit, and would do well in Colorado. With Floyd we’d have enough money to make us the favorites to land him. I think Floyd plus Tejada easily passes Rogers plus Stewart in value.
I always wonder about
taking a flier on Andy Marte
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
Dude may actually be older than Mora.
I mean, who even knows.
How big of a step up from Francis is he?
Is Tejada, Floyd much better than Stewart, Francis?
by purplesocks on Nov 18, 2010 10:42 AM MST up reply actions
no
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
Floyd is a huge step up from Francis.
Tejada is a step down from Stewie’s current production
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Hates Tulo. Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
Francis will back fully from injury.
I’d rather take my chances with him and Stewy. JMO
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
And I think what we saw from Stewart in 2010 was pretty close to his floor (as Jeff has pointed out)
134 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 18, 2010 10:48 AM MST up reply actions
Thats what I am wondering from Rox Girld
Is the drop from Stewie to Tejada bigger than the step up from Francis to Floyd
by purplesocks on Nov 18, 2010 10:52 AM MST up reply actions
I don't think it is, but maybe.
It depends on how confident you are that Stewart can emerge as a star. Floyd’s a very underrated pitcher, I feel, and I’m not certain enough that there’s another level to Stewart’s game to feel it’s justified hording him for somebody of Floyd’s caliber.
If the Rockies traded for Justin Upton, would we need to give him a new nickname here?
I’m not sure “go, Punkton!!” would feel right in a game thread.
"Are they called the Rockies because they rock?" - 7 y.o.
J-Punk
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
"Up town girls, we've been livin..."
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 18, 2010 8:59 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
Also, whenever he had a really bad day at the plate (or field)
Suckton would definitely get used.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Hates Tulo. Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
make it happen Danny
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 18, 2010 9:05 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
The article makes him sound like a RH Hawpe
I wouldn’t really be averse to him, but do we really want that as our centerpiece? I’d rather pay bigger and get Upton…
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
I’d rather pay bigger and get Upton…
Until it’s time to checkout at the register…
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Hates Tulo. Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
haha exactly true
We don’t even know if they would trade Upton in division. It’s pretty exciting to think about CarGo, Fowler, and Upton playing the field in Coors though.
by black_knight101 on Nov 18, 2010 9:56 AM MST up reply actions
Well, a D'backs front office dude said they'd consider it at a higher price
That may or may not actually mean much, though
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
by Mondogarage on Nov 18, 2010 10:03 AM MST up reply actions
just a thought
so….if we somehow included dex in a trade for Upton, then we’d have Cargo & Upton with Smith/Spilly taking up the other spot.
now, assume for the sake of levity, we were somehow able to get Carlos Quinten from the White Sox.
there is something oddly pleasing about stomping all over the d-backs with their 3 can’t miss outfield prospects of the early 2000’s in our outfield.
by attackparrot on Nov 18, 2010 2:40 PM MST up reply actions
basically impossible
but the idea is pretty awesome
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Hates Tulo. Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
Totally and completely awesome
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
would be funny!!
glad i’m not the only one who would appreciate the irony…
by attackparrot on Nov 18, 2010 2:49 PM MST up reply actions
Now just resign Jorge de la Rosa
and rewind and trade for Dan Uggla too
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 19, 2010 9:06 AM MST up reply actions
Now that's just mean...........................
I like it
134 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 18, 2010 2:49 PM MST up reply actions
and take a flier on Webb...
see if he’s a good reclamation project? If he could get that sinker going…..
by attackparrot on Nov 18, 2010 2:53 PM MST up reply actions
Good idea, except for two factors
He’s not inclined to sign a true “reclamation project” contract (e.g., 1 year, $1m guarantee with incentives), not after seeing Ben Sheets get $10m last year from Oakland.
combined with…
There’s no indication that he has anything at all…the pitching he did in instructional at the end of last season, wasn’t much harder than Jamie Moyer would throw.
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
Recent reports have been far better, IIRC
but I don’t see him taking less than 4M base + incentives
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Hates Tulo. Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
Well, count me as one who hopes he does come back well eventually
I mean, I dislike the dbacks hard, but talent is talent, and Webb was awesome. But I wouldn’t even give im a 4m base for 2011. Maybe 2m max, with a team option for 2012 at a much higher guarantee ($9m?), because I still think the likelihood of him being a productive major leaguer in 2011 are really low.
These are exactly the kinda gambles that would be borderline for a team such as the Rockies that have a fine line to walk. Gambling $4m on Webb likely eliminates more necessary upgrades, when the risk is really high.
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
point taken...
i’m probably just too amused with using another team’s former star players against them (especially in division).
that sounds oddly like behavior typical of an obnoxious yankee or bosox fan…. my apologies!!
by attackparrot on Nov 18, 2010 2:59 PM MST up reply actions
Well you are attackparrot so maybe you just like attacking the D'Backs
134 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 18, 2010 3:01 PM MST up reply actions
Naw, I've got yer PIN
I’m in yer walletz buyin up playerz. Player Player!
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
by Mondogarage on Nov 18, 2010 10:02 AM MST up reply actions
The article describes Willingham as an okay hitter,
but doesn’t cite any evidence for that claim.
ATF’s article proposing the Willingham trade showed his batting statistics throughout his career, which were quite impressive.
A career line of .265/.367.475, with a career-high .389 OBP last year and a SLG that’s sure to go up in Coors? I’d certainly consider that a quality RH bat.
Well, there you go
I’d be happy with that, though I wouldn’t want to automatically consider a three year extension just yet.
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
by Mondogarage on Nov 18, 2010 10:04 AM MST up reply actions
Sorry, I'm completely confused when you write
that that Upton’s 4.5 mill salary would be pushing our budget. Wouldn’t that leave us with around 15 mil remaining?
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
Again, that's not what I'm writing. That's what somebody in the front office or ownership told Renck
in the linked article:
Rockies ownership would have to increase next season’s payroll to roughly $86 million to add Upton, and is open to the idea. Also interested in Upton are the Red Sox and Marlins. Upton has $49.5 million remaining on a contract that runs through 2015.
What I’m saying above is that this implies (as you point out) that it’s not adding Upton alone we’d be talking about, but adding Upton plus other players.
Yea that's definitely weird then
I was under the impression that the team was leaning on signing someone in the 8-10 mill range and then making a trade for another person in the 5 mill range (like Napoli, or Shields, and now Upton), so its definitely confusing how all these other trade candidates were okay, but now Upton is throwing things off. But whatever
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
I don't think this is correct
I’m just having a hard time imagining the club not being able to absorb a 4 million increase for a position, even if they were not budgeting for that. I think it’s partially because I have a hard time seeing them spend 20 million dollars anyway, with the scrap-heap players they have been looking at on the market.
Oh you didn't hear
we signed Ty Wigginton to a 3 year, 45million dollar contract.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
I've heard that talks between the Red Sox and D'Backs have cooled
Apparently the two major league pieces Arizona wanted from Boston were Ellsbury and Bard and the Red Sox really don’t want to give up Bard becasue they see him as their future closer (possibly as soon as 2011)
135 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 18, 2010 9:58 AM MST up reply actions
those are their two centerpieces?
completely one-sided. Ellsbury is NOT that great.
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Hates Tulo. Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
But he's like Eckstein +!!!!
Wikked awesome.
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
by Mondogarage on Nov 18, 2010 10:04 AM MST up reply actions
Oh I agree
That’s on e of the reasons I imagine the talks have cooled. (Both Boston and Arizona sounded really in love with Bard from the local report I heard though)
135 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 18, 2010 10:06 AM MST up reply actions
We could come up with something pretty equivalent right?
I mean Fowler is about Ellsbury’s value, and Bard could be who? a little more valuable Brothers? If they want major league maybe Reynolds? We’d have to add more but as the main pieces of the trade, what do you think?
by purplesocks on Nov 18, 2010 11:11 AM MST up reply actions
Sounds like Casey Kelly was also involved in that one so we probably would have to give up a high prospect in our minor league system as well
134 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 18, 2010 11:16 AM MST up reply actions
Psst!....
Leave Fowler’s name out of this. I don’t want you putting any ideas into Arizona’s heads. :)
If it allows us to lower our prospect cost and keep Chacin, I would trade Fowler for Upton
Slide Cargo to Center, Upton in LF, and our current platoon of Smith/Spilly in RF. Thats an upgraded OF
I would still favor Ender-25’s offer but I don’t think that is enough to land Upton
by purplesocks on Nov 18, 2010 11:22 AM MST up reply actions
Yah but....
I want an Upton, Fowler, Cargo OF. Name me one OF anywhere in baseball that covers more range and strikes more fear into pitchers than that dream crew.
Range wise
Andrew McCutchen all by himself.
"Don't be pushed by your problems. Be led by your dreams."
I seem to remember a discussion of his really bad UZR rating at some point last year..
which is, um, yeah….. :=/
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
Bazinga!!
SD Cat 09 is still awesome
by Junction Rox on Nov 18, 2010 11:54 AM MST up reply actions
Fielding ratings sure don't seem to pass the logic test.
We lost at least one game to his CF range at Coors last year.
"Don't be pushed by your problems. Be led by your dreams."
that's assuming that fielding is always at a constant level
it may not be.
by Andrew Martin on Nov 18, 2010 1:09 PM MST up reply actions
If that is true then what do you value?
Because I have to think 99% of people would take McCutchen’s CF defense over Marlon Byrd’s (for example). Yet the stats show Byrd was a much better CF in 2010. In fact per fangraphs McCutchen was the second worst fielding CF in 2010 only in front of Kemp.
I witnessed McCutchen’s defense win a game for his team. Can Byrd say the same? Or does Byrd’s defense “in theory” help win more games because of a constant level?
"Don't be pushed by your problems. Be led by your dreams."
I don't disagree that Cutch is an excellent fielder
purely that our perception of his fielding abilities is from a few frustrating games.
Byrd’s fielding value might be similarly biased, in the sense that he may have had a 20 game stretch where everything in the air was eaten by his glove and then the other 140 games he was pretty average.
by Andrew Martin on Nov 18, 2010 3:57 PM MST up reply actions
Pirate fans I've talked to readily admit
he makes bonehead routes sometimes
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 19, 2010 9:07 AM MST up reply actions
Is there a reason why he wasn't discussed in Gold Glove conversations?
When I read discussions about whether Carlos deserved a Gold Glove, I didn’t hear McCutchen mentioned. Was he less impressive against other teams? At Coors, it seemed like he had a baseball magnet in his glove.
"Are they called the Rockies because they rock?" - 7 y.o.
by glaucophane on Nov 18, 2010 12:07 PM MST up reply actions
The dude is Spiderman.
Strikeouts are boring - besides that, they're fascist. Throw some more groundballs. Its more democratic. - Crash Davis
by DAWNMARIE01 on Nov 18, 2010 12:21 PM MST up reply actions
Haven't seen you around here before
Welcome to the Row
134 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 18, 2010 11:28 AM MST up reply actions
Was Iowarockie....
But lost my account somehow (probably due to lack of use over the Summer) and had to make a new account. I think I have officially caught off-season fever. First symptom is talking crazy talk. Things like: “I think we should trade for Justin Upton.”
Ah Okay
Lots to discuss here the last couple of days.
134 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 18, 2010 11:37 AM MST up reply actions
A couple other thoughts
I think the return on Upton might be surprisingly low, especially if he is traded out of division. Health concerns as well as concerns of actually reaching his true potential may prevent Arizona from actually getting what they want.
I guess it was one thought.
it might also be why they are thinking of dealing him
Sell high before the health ruins him? They know his health records more than anyone
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 18, 2010 9:14 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
How willing would Towers be to trading Upton in the division?
They are asking for too much anyways. I think he stays in Arizona.
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I agree about it being highly unlikely that he comes to Colorado, but I don't know about him not being traded.
The Diamondbacks seem to be getting a lot of interest, and they should get the package they want from somebody. It makes sense for them too, sense they need a lot of retooling to make their team competitive again, and by the time it’s done, Upton will be too expensive for them to retain.
Well they are asking Boston for Bard and Ellsbury
So that ain’t happening
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by Marisa Ingemi on Nov 18, 2010 10:02 AM MST up reply actions
I think Arizona could do much, much better
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Hates Tulo. Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
Well
I forgot to mention Buchholz and Kelly.
I mean, Bard is pretty much the closer, and Buchholz may be their ace.
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by Marisa Ingemi on Nov 18, 2010 10:04 AM MST up reply actions
it depends on how close to competing Arizona views their current roster
Buchholz pushes that package into elite status
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Hates Tulo. Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
Giving up Buchholz would be a bad idea
He is only getting better.
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by Marisa Ingemi on Nov 18, 2010 10:14 AM MST up reply actions
Upton plays every day though, and he hasn't even touched his potential
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Hates Tulo. Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
I am weary of given up proven players for a 23 year old
No matter the potential. The Red Sox are a team that needs to improve pitching, not offense. Even with the injuries they were second in the AL in runs.
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by Marisa Ingemi on Nov 18, 2010 10:18 AM MST up reply actions
thank you, Adrian Beltre
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Hates Tulo. Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
He helped a lot
But I don’t want to sign him either. I am lookig for either Lowrie at 3B or another option at 1B until Adrian Gonzalez.
I am all for Upton. Just not for Bard or Buchholz. Take anyone else.
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by Marisa Ingemi on Nov 18, 2010 10:22 AM MST up reply actions
"until adrian gonzalez"
don’t just assume you’re going to land him. That mentality drives me absolutely nuts.
by Andrew Martin on Nov 18, 2010 10:23 AM MST up reply actions
Not assuming at all
But when Theo sets his mind on a player, he gets him. That is his weak and strong points, which led to Drew, Lugo, Cameron and Renteria.
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by Marisa Ingemi on Nov 18, 2010 10:24 AM MST up reply actions
All of those player were signed through FA though
You’d have to trade for Gonzalez (which is much tickier)
135 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 18, 2010 10:27 AM MST up reply actions
free agent next season
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by Marisa Ingemi on Nov 18, 2010 10:27 AM MST up reply actions
So you're targeting Gonzalez for 2012?
Or do you want him as a piece that can help you this year?
135 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 18, 2010 10:33 AM MST up reply actions
I think they can get by this season
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by Marisa Ingemi on Nov 18, 2010 11:32 AM MST up reply actions
Unless...
San Diego trades him (like they are sort of expected to do) before 7/31/2011 to another team who would pay his extension demands (Texas? Angels? O’s? Cubs?) Might not want to get too attached to Bard/Bucky if you really want Gonzalez.
Go Bruce!
which sounds like Theo
forgive me for being a bit jumpy, I interact with far too many big market team fans who just assume that Tulowitzki will be playing for them in 2015 (for example) and it gets me all riled up when it sounds like said fans are assuming that all lower-market teams are just there to farm out their best players to the AL East.
by Andrew Martin on Nov 18, 2010 10:37 AM MST up reply actions
I'm very curious to see what Boston does this offseason
especially with VMart and Beltre likely out the door. If they sign Werth to a 5 year deal, it would be disastrous.
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Hates Tulo. Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
I am too
I am on the Werth bandwagon to be honest
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by Marisa Ingemi on Nov 18, 2010 10:26 AM MST up reply actions
you'll be getting him at a premium price through his 36th year
that’s always dangerous. How is that JD Drew contract working out for you?
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Hates Tulo. Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
Differnt
Drew is eh… The Red Sox NEED a right handed hitter like Werth
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by Marisa Ingemi on Nov 18, 2010 11:31 AM MST up reply actions
Isn't Youkilis already that rhight handed hitter in your lineup?
134 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 18, 2010 11:41 AM MST up reply actions
rhight right
134 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 18, 2010 11:42 AM MST up reply actions
With the potential loss of Beltre and maybe Victor
Theyy need another bat.
This is the lineup right now
Ells CF Pedroia 2B Victor C? Youk 1B Werth/Beltre?3B/LF Ortiz DH SaltyC/Lowrie 3B? Drew RF Scutaro/Lowrie SS
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by Marisa Ingemi on Nov 18, 2010 11:45 AM MST up reply actions
That lineup would be scary good but how much do you trust Werth on the back end of let's say a 5 year deal?
134 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 18, 2010 11:59 AM MST up reply actions
I think you guys are way over valuing Bard
Yes, he is a closer in making. But free agency is always ripe with closers who cost a dime.
I don't know...
Bard is young and has electric stuff, and Papelbon is on the decline
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by Marisa Ingemi on Nov 18, 2010 10:26 AM MST up reply actions
Well, it may be just my philosophy.
I don’t feel that relievers hold a lot of value. They are highly variable and are easy to replace.
Josh Byrnes
agrees with you.
Mr. Science Boy
by DbacksSkins on Nov 26, 2010 10:37 AM MST up reply actions
ah yes the "pitcher vs position player" value debate
by Andrew Martin on Nov 18, 2010 10:19 AM MST up reply actions
oh sorry
“BUT BUCKHOLTZ THREW A NOHITER”
fixed.Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Hates Tulo. Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
I think what it realy comes down to for you guys is how repeatable is Buchholz's 2010 season
If you feel that he will regress, there no better time to trade him than now becasue you’ll get max value out of him; but if you feel that he’ll always be as goos as his 2010 numbers (as you seem to), then hold on to him.
135 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 18, 2010 10:24 AM MST up reply actions
Most likely not winning
However, If he is traded in the division, I see the Rockies as the most likely to land him. We have a very good relationship with Arizona.
True,
but what about with the new regime?
Mr. Science Boy
by DbacksSkins on Nov 26, 2010 10:38 AM MST up reply actions
Man, are video games becoming real life now?
Netting Upton in a trade would be like the dream team you’d create in a video game, assembling the best young team you could.
I’m all for trading for Upton. Like others said, as long as they are healthy, our lineup should be stacked for awhile.
Just need to add some pitching depth, lol, is Santana available? hehe
Apparently one of my Facebook friends just talked to Greg Reynolds
In the basement of his condo complex.
I asked, and he said that Greg managed to avoid a horrifically unlucky injury during their whole conversation.
So that’s a plus.
by Shoemaker on Nov 18, 2010 10:33 AM MST reply actions 4 recs
Yeah, but that means he's also already used his last lifeline
his last “phone a friend”
his last “one time, dealer!”
I’d prefer that he saved it for a game.
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
by Mondogarage on Nov 18, 2010 10:38 AM MST up reply actions
Wow, if the 2006 draft had gone differently
your friend could have been talking to Tim Lincecum or Evan Longoria in that basement instead.
by Rockpile Interloper on Nov 18, 2010 10:53 AM MST up reply actions
He could have shared a bong with Timmeh
134 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 18, 2010 10:56 AM MST up reply actions
On a scale of 1 to 10
How intent are the D’backs on trading Upton? (One being just listening to offers to see what’s out there and only making a deal if someone offers them a king’s ransom and ten being Upton must be dealt and he will go to the highest bidder.)
I assume it’s about a three but I want to know what others think.
135 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 18, 2010 10:39 AM MST reply actions
Entirely speculation of course
I’d rate it more like a 6.
I think the D’backs really do want to move him, if it will help them reshape their roster in the process, but they’re also happy to keep him at his 2011 salary. If they don’t get the proverbial king’s ransom, but get enough pieces to make it worthwhile, they’ll do it anyway.
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
by Mondogarage on Nov 18, 2010 10:44 AM MST up reply actions
Don't underestimate Kevin Towers' desire to put his stamp on the franchise early
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
by Mondogarage on Nov 18, 2010 10:44 AM MST up reply actions
Peter Hjort at BtB has a look at JDLR's next contract
He’s not optimistic, but then again, he’s using rWAR (which doesn’t like JDLR as much) as opposed to fWAR, which is what I based my projections off of.
The writer formerly known as Jabberwocky
READ and LEARN about the business of baseball at Purple Row Academy
Eschew Obfuscation!
Nevermind on the Fangraphs thing...
he just really overcompensates for De La Rosa’s injury.
The writer formerly known as Jabberwocky
READ and LEARN about the business of baseball at Purple Row Academy
Eschew Obfuscation!
by Jeff Aberle on Nov 18, 2010 10:42 AM MST up reply actions
rWAR is Baseball Reference's WAR and fWAR is Fangraphs WAR right?
135 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 18, 2010 10:44 AM MST up reply actions
Yes, the r stands for Rally, which is the website where B-Ref gets their numbers.
It’s the home to the historical WAR database that I’ve used several times in the past.
The writer formerly known as Jabberwocky
READ and LEARN about the business of baseball at Purple Row Academy
Eschew Obfuscation!
by Jeff Aberle on Nov 18, 2010 10:50 AM MST up reply actions
huh, I thought rWar was a response to a player with an above average HAR
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
HAHAHA
I wish I could see Jeff’s face when he reads this.
134 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 18, 2010 11:06 AM MST up reply actions
A hint of a smile, FWIW.
The writer formerly known as Jabberwocky
READ and LEARN about the business of baseball at Purple Row Academy
Eschew Obfuscation!
by Jeff Aberle on Nov 18, 2010 11:18 AM MST up reply actions
No, that's ROFLWAR
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
by Mondogarage on Nov 18, 2010 11:07 AM MST up reply actions
I don't know who either of those players are
Yankees Acquire Scott Allen For Juan Miranda
Are they RP?
by purplesocks on Nov 18, 2010 11:12 AM MST up reply actions
Yankees Acquire Scott Allen For Juan Miranda and Justin Upton
PhWAR!
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
by Mondogarage on Nov 18, 2010 11:13 AM MST up reply actions
19 year old Scottie Allen for 1B Juan Miranda
Nothing too big there
134 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 18, 2010 11:13 AM MST up reply actions
The D-Backs have been Mirandized!
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
Bazinga!!
SD Cat 09 is still awesome
by Junction Rox on Nov 18, 2010 11:32 AM MST up reply actions
Which is really really interesting
Considering they want to deport latinos there without the benefit of due process
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
by Mondogarage on Nov 18, 2010 11:33 AM MST up reply actions
He;d best keep his ID in his back pocket while on the field.
Trying to avoid the taboo subject of politics but Arizonans are morons.
Go Bruce!
Yeah, didn't mean to stray, but the name sorta lent itself....
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
by Mondogarage on Nov 18, 2010 12:43 PM MST up reply actions
We already DFA'd him a couple weeks ago
He’s been outrighted to the minors.
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
by Mondogarage on Nov 18, 2010 12:56 PM MST up reply actions
From Renck: Rockies have traded barmes to astros for p paulino
by black_knight101 on Nov 18, 2010 11:31 AM MST up reply actions
love this move
Campaigning for more day baseball games since 2006
by djmbluemoon on Nov 18, 2010 11:32 AM MST up reply actions
Paulino....
He’s kinda like a #6 starter/long bullpen guy right?
More or less
He has the stuff to be better than that though. He isn’t that far off from what De La Rosa was when we picked him up.
ooooooo, reading between the lines.....
Next year’s rotation will now be
Uball
Chacin
Hammel
Paulino
Cook
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
by Mondogarage on Nov 18, 2010 11:38 AM MST up reply actions
But if that means we spend the JDLR money on Upton and VMart...I'd be happy
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
by Mondogarage on Nov 18, 2010 11:39 AM MST up reply actions
I wouldn't go that far
He still has a lot of work to do. But like DLR, the potential is there. This could be a steal if the prices fall into the right places.
What I was trying to say is...
….this could actually be a strong signal that we’re not resigning JDLR.
Not saying he’s an equal replacement right now.
But I do believe that Dac can make any powerful arm a quality pitcher.
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
by Mondogarage on Nov 18, 2010 11:43 AM MST up reply actions
Unless their first name begins with Frank :).
Strikeouts are boring - besides that, they're fascist. Throw some more groundballs. Its more democratic. - Crash Davis
He's not in our rotation, barring multiple injuries
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Hates Tulo. Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
which multiple players?
Campaigning for more day baseball games since 2006
by djmbluemoon on Nov 18, 2010 11:49 AM MST up reply actions
depending on who we re-sign
Rogers would be the most likely spot starter. Depends on how Greg Reynolds’ camp goes, same with Greg Smith
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Hates Tulo. Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
Paulino is instantly ahead of Reynolds and Smith at the moment for me
probably around level with Rogers
Campaigning for more day baseball games since 2006
by djmbluemoon on Nov 18, 2010 11:58 AM MST up reply actions
you have more faith in him than I do
I don’t see Paulino as any more than pure depth at this point
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Hates Tulo. Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
IAWTC
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
Bazinga!!
SD Cat 09 is still awesome
by Junction Rox on Nov 18, 2010 12:02 PM MST up reply actions
potentially better than that
he’s been really unlucky with his headline stats in the majors, last year he had 8.1 K/9, 4.5 BB/9 and only 0.4 HR/9, but had a .341 BABIP against which skewed his ERA.
Campaigning for more day baseball games since 2006
by djmbluemoon on Nov 18, 2010 11:39 AM MST up reply actions
Groundball rate only 42% though, so HR is potentially due for major regression
’specially in Coors
Campaigning for more day baseball games since 2006
by djmbluemoon on Nov 18, 2010 11:41 AM MST up reply actions
42% isnt bad
It’s not great, but it’s not a Ted Lilly-like 30%
Rocktober is not a time of year, it is a religion.
3.5% HR/flyball rate last year
that’s not happening again i doubt
Campaigning for more day baseball games since 2006
by djmbluemoon on Nov 18, 2010 11:43 AM MST up reply actions
Amen
but an xFIP of 4.54 is still pretty good.
I would guess that some Dac magic could make him pretty solid.
plus, 1.7 WAR in only ~90 innings is pretty good.
Rocktober is not a time of year, it is a religion.
Might be due for a major regression
But Enron Minute Maid Park gives up it’s fair share of homers too….
Just saw this tweet from baseballcrank (don’t know who that is, but it showed up on the google search for Paulino)…
The Rockies just turned Clint Barmes into Felipe Paulino, which I’m pretty sure is the sequel to what happened at Cana.
Looks like he pitched against the Rockies twice last year…. 5/19 @ Houston he went 6, gave up 2 ER, 4K, 5BB, no decision. And 6/9 at Coors – 8 IP, 2 ER, 7K, 2 BB. Another no decision…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
Bazinga!!
SD Cat 09 is still awesome
by Junction Rox on Nov 18, 2010 11:50 AM MST up reply actions
For those of you who aren’t up on your New Testament, that is an EXTREMELY ringing endorsement of the trade, once which I cosign.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
by Franchise26 on Nov 18, 2010 11:52 AM MST up reply actions
Water/wine....
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
Bazinga!!
SD Cat 09 is still awesome
by Junction Rox on Nov 18, 2010 11:53 AM MST up reply actions
Sweet, now maybe we can get Paulino to go all Old Testament on the NL West
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
by Mondogarage on Nov 18, 2010 12:09 PM MST up reply actions
I'm stoked to get Paulino...
he’s really undervalued if Barmes can get him
The writer formerly known as Jabberwocky
READ and LEARN about the business of baseball at Purple Row Academy
Eschew Obfuscation!
by Jeff Aberle on Nov 18, 2010 12:34 PM MST up reply actions
career BABIP is super high too
.348 almost Hammel-like
but his LD% is pretty low, so I would guess his xBABIP would probably ~.300
Rocktober is not a time of year, it is a religion.
Paulino's ERA
Also took a hit from some September bullpen sessions. As a starter, through the summer, it was actually pretty good.
by Rockpile Interloper on Nov 18, 2010 11:42 AM MST up reply actions
It's a really nice pickup considering Barmes was guaranteed non-tender
nice move
Campaigning for more day baseball games since 2006
by djmbluemoon on Nov 18, 2010 11:43 AM MST up reply actions
Didn't Paulino flat out pwn us in one game last year?
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
by Mondogarage on Nov 18, 2010 11:44 AM MST up reply actions
I think he went 8 IP
And give up two runs. It was one of his better outings of the year.
by Rockpile Interloper on Nov 18, 2010 11:46 AM MST up reply actions
Did it twice actually
Once was the Carlos Lee 10th inning Grand Slam game.
134 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 18, 2010 11:52 AM MST up reply actions
That game sucked!
Strikeouts are boring - besides that, they're fascist. Throw some more groundballs. Its more democratic. - Crash Davis
That whole week of games against them and the D'Backs sucked
We could have made a move against a couple of craptastic teams and instead lost ground.
134 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 18, 2010 2:44 PM MST up reply actions
This
Paulino gave up two runs or less in 9 of the 14 starts he made last season
134 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 18, 2010 11:51 AM MST up reply actions
with an FIP of 3.44 (as a starter I believe)
Still kind of confused about how we were able to make this trade happen. Maybe there was a lot more interest in Barmes than expected?
by black_knight101 on Nov 18, 2010 11:56 AM MST up reply actions
just noticed that Paulino is arb-eligible as a super 2
so he’s probably going to be due between $1.5-$2m this year, might have had a slight impact. Still Barmes is gonna be on north of $4m
Campaigning for more day baseball games since 2006
by djmbluemoon on Nov 18, 2010 11:57 AM MST up reply actions
Super 2 status?
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Hates Tulo. Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
Wow
Surprised we got what we got for a definite non-tender candidate
I really hope Barmey finds some success there. His infuriating batting tendencies aside, he’s one of the really good guys.
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
by Mondogarage on Nov 18, 2010 11:34 AM MST up reply actions
yeah i didn't expect anything at all
by black_knight101 on Nov 18, 2010 11:35 AM MST up reply actions
Especially someone with upside
paulino is still young, and has pretty good stuff. If Dac can work some magic with him…
Gonna miss you Clint!
Hope you have a great year in Houston…. Except when you play us.
absolute steal
really good #’s last year (3.44 FIP) Although the BB% is really high. I would guess that between him and Rogers, one of the two will be 5th-starter worthy.
Rocktober is not a time of year, it is a religion.
awwww....:( Good luck Barmey!!!!
Thank you for all the great (and not so great) years!!!
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
Is Paulino a 95+ mph guy?
Is it 2011 yet?
by The Lodo Magic Man on Nov 18, 2010 11:36 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
Good luck, Clint.
I’ll miss your cute kid in the Rockies commercials.
"Are they called the Rockies because they rock?" - 7 y.o.
by glaucophane on Nov 18, 2010 11:45 AM MST up reply actions
But make sure you return the Travel Tracy before packing!
NP: Hawks Of Paradise – “Lost Way Home”
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
by Mondogarage on Nov 18, 2010 11:47 AM MST up reply actions
shocked we got a major league ready pitcher for him
Paulino doesn’t have a great record but has potential and has shut us down a few times over the last few yrs…Good luck Clint
LETS GO RED WINGS!
2011 will be the year....better be....
Troy Tulowitzki: "When people think of the Rockies, I want them to think of a winning organization."
by TuLoRocks2008 on Nov 18, 2010 11:46 AM MST up reply actions
Did you just call Paulino Major League Ready?
Ship him to AZ for Upton!
You never know...
This could be a step in that direction.
Rocktober is not a time of year, it is a religion.
yeah major league ready as in
he has been there last few years…and yes i would gladly take Upton
LETS GO RED WINGS!
2011 will be the year....better be....
Troy Tulowitzki: "When people think of the Rockies, I want them to think of a winning organization."
by TuLoRocks2008 on Nov 18, 2010 11:54 AM MST up reply actions
ZING!!!!
I literally LOL’d
NP: Lab Partners – “It’s How You Feel”
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
by Mondogarage on Nov 18, 2010 12:10 PM MST up reply actions
The Astros are going to rue the day they made this trade
This could be another Ed Wade special
134 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 18, 2010 12:04 PM MST up reply actions
Nahhh.....
If Paulino was any good they would have already included him in the Jason Jennings deal.
MLB.com news headline:
AL Cy Young a choice between wins, stats
I would change that to:
“AL Cy Young a choice between wins, truth”
Rocktober is not a time of year, it is a religion.
MLB Network is showing 2010 Plays of the Year
So far the Rockies have been featured 4 :) and they are only at 55
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
They only get a couple more
But yeah, we got more than our share.
But then, we had more than our share of awesome plays.
Be prepared to be truly disappointed by #1.
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
by Mondogarage on Nov 18, 2010 11:48 AM MST up reply actions
I'm pretty sure I can guess....
Has to be a Giant or Yankee play?
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
But in fairness it better be Halladay perfect game
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
No, it's not that, either
NP: Lab Partners – “It’s How You Feel”
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
by Mondogarage on Nov 18, 2010 12:10 PM MST up reply actions
No, it's neither
I don’t want to spoil it
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
by Mondogarage on Nov 18, 2010 12:10 PM MST up reply actions
Wow...you aren't kidding...THAT was the #1 play of year??????
OMG that is pathetic….I cannot believe it…terrible terrible terrible choice…
wow…..:(:(
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
Not to take away from the prodigiousness of the blast, though
I mean, it sure was deep, but mostly in context of the stadium it was in. Still, nowhere near the top play, really. Not even top 20, imho.
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
by Mondogarage on Nov 18, 2010 12:57 PM MST up reply actions
The one in Houston that clinched the AL Central for the Reds
I mean, it was over deep center, where the flagpole is.
But still, it was just another dinger, really.
Gave it just because that game clinched the division. So stupid.
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
It's not like they clinched on the last day
That’s just silly….
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
Bazinga!!
SD Cat 09 is still awesome
by Junction Rox on Nov 18, 2010 1:27 PM MST up reply actions
Seriously. Unbelievably bad choice. Heck, I would have preferred Arod's 600th HR over THAT
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
Haven't seen the show, but
my money would be on the Mark Buehrle between-the-legs play.
by Rockpile Interloper on Nov 18, 2010 11:56 AM MST up reply actions
That wouldn't be disappointing.....that would be reasonable
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
Speaking of, I'd been meaning to post this, but forgot:
They also did Best Finishes of 2010. The Rockies were disproportionately represented, compared to other teams:
The Bad:
#45: April 18, Rockies at Braves. Yep, you know the one.
#37: June 24, Red Sox at Rockies. Death by Pedroia.
#34: July 19, Rockies at Marlins. Donnie Murphy.
#7: Aug. 7, Rockies at Pirates. Stewart & Helton homer. Pedro Alvarez crushes our souls.
The Good:
#27: Aug. 25, Braves at Rockies. Comeback from 10-1 to win 12-10, CarGo sliding catch in the corner to end the game.
#21: June 23, Red Sox at Rockies. Stewart & Giambi blast off against Papelbon.
#17: June 22, Red Sox at Rockies. Barmes diving stop and throw to Helton to seal 2-1 win.
-#5 (fitting): July 31, Cubs at Rockies. CarGo walk-off cycle.
#3: July 6, Cardinals at Rockies. 9-run 9th.
Funny how the entire Red Sox series made the list.
haha yeah thats crazy
whole series there
LETS GO RED WINGS!
2011 will be the year....better be....
Troy Tulowitzki: "When people think of the Rockies, I want them to think of a winning organization."
by TuLoRocks2008 on Nov 18, 2010 12:03 PM MST up reply actions
To bad the games against the Red osx were not that exciting when we played them in the World Series
134 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 18, 2010 12:07 PM MST up reply actions
Well, even though we lost, I found the games exciting because we were in our first WS :)
I’ll take being swept than not being there at all….:) And there were a couple of very exciting games.
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
yep how about that Game 3
rallied back from 6-0 down made it 6-5 and had a runner on 1st with nobody out…Game 2 and 4 were very tight as well
LETS GO RED WINGS!
2011 will be the year....better be....
Troy Tulowitzki: "When people think of the Rockies, I want them to think of a winning organization."
by TuLoRocks2008 on Nov 18, 2010 12:10 PM MST up reply actions
I'll say this much
The Rox were a thrilling team in 2010.
But also thrills, spills, chills.
To have 9 of fiddy….yeah, exciting year.
NP: Lab Partners – “It’s How You Feel”
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
by Mondogarage on Nov 18, 2010 12:12 PM MST up reply actions
And it didn't even include the 10-9 walk off extra innings game from September 25th against the Giants
when Tulo had a WPA of 98% or something like that.
134 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 18, 2010 1:58 PM MST up reply actions
Yeah, no Nelson stealing home?
I guess that happens all the time back East . . .
Strikeouts are boring - besides that, they're fascist. Throw some more groundballs. Its more democratic. - Crash Davis
No it was in there....I forget where...
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
I think it didn't make Holly's list because the one she's talking about was best finishes
Nelson’s steal happened in the 8th inning so it wasn’t the finish to a game.
134 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 18, 2010 2:46 PM MST up reply actions
glad King Felix won Cy Young
he deserved it
LETS GO RED WINGS!
2011 will be the year....better be....
Troy Tulowitzki: "When people think of the Rockies, I want them to think of a winning organization."
agreed
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Hates Tulo. Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
Wasn’t even close. Wow.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
by Franchise26 on Nov 18, 2010 12:09 PM MST up reply actions
A vote for reason for once!
NP: Lab Partners – “It’s How You Feel”
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
by Mondogarage on Nov 18, 2010 12:13 PM MST up reply actions
I think we can now officially consider Jon Stewart’s rally a success.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
by Franchise26 on Nov 18, 2010 12:14 PM MST up reply actions
On this point we can agree!!! ^4
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
I'm also glad he won because it means Sabathia didn't win
Muahahahahaha
134 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 18, 2010 12:12 PM MST up reply actions
A few things:
First, I didn’t see this blog post by Renck anywhere. One note pertinent to today’s discussion is that Chacin is untouchable in trade talks and Matzek & Friedrich close to untouchable.
Also, good luck to Barmes. Renck seems to think he can be the Astros’ everyday shortstop. Sounds like a good landing spot for him. I’ll miss him. Nice comment from Todd via Renck:
Todd helton on barmes trade:“Love him like a brother. Will miss him playing beside me. Whatever uni he’s in, he will always be a Rockie.”
they can still go deer hunting together
Campaigning for more day baseball games since 2006
by djmbluemoon on Nov 18, 2010 12:06 PM MST up reply actions
This must be pretty rough on Helton.
Losing both Hawpe and Barmey. They were his best friends on the team as I understand it.
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
that sucks
poor Todd
LETS GO RED WINGS!
2011 will be the year....better be....
Troy Tulowitzki: "When people think of the Rockies, I want them to think of a winning organization."
by TuLoRocks2008 on Nov 18, 2010 12:13 PM MST up reply actions
Yes he can go home and cry
in his pile of money
yep poor Todd feelings wise
obv not literally poor Todd lol
LETS GO RED WINGS!
2011 will be the year....better be....
Troy Tulowitzki: "When people think of the Rockies, I want them to think of a winning organization."
by TuLoRocks2008 on Nov 18, 2010 1:34 PM MST up reply actions
Yeah money pays for feelings of sadness and missing people you love.....
/rolling eyes
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
It does help buy you things that distract you from those feelings
The writer formerly known as Jabberwocky
READ and LEARN about the business of baseball at Purple Row Academy
Eschew Obfuscation!
But only for a little while :)
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
Wheres' the 'non-rec' button?
Strikeouts are boring - besides that, they're fascist. Throw some more groundballs. Its more democratic. - Crash Davis
2010 AL Cy Young Award Post is up...
Please direct discussion here.
The writer formerly known as Jabberwocky
READ and LEARN about the business of baseball at Purple Row Academy
Eschew Obfuscation!
Can we get confirmation of this?
Craig Baker just tweeted that Cory Riordan was promoted to the 40 man roster today
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Hates Tulo. Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
That would make sense, as Riordan was one of the five or six players the Rockies needed to protect from the Rule 5 Draft
The writer formerly known as Jabberwocky
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Eschew Obfuscation!
by Jeff Aberle on Nov 18, 2010 12:38 PM MST up reply actions
then everyone adjust your spreadsheets.
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Hates Tulo. Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
From Renck:
O’Dowd said Paulino will be come to spring as a starter and could be option for bullpen as well. This doesn’t affect pursuit of FAs
Renck also has a couple nice quotes from DOD on Barmes.
Ha, LOL
9news put a pull up on their site asking who the next 2B should be. 204 for EY, 96 for Johnny, and 9 for poor Chris Nelson.
I’m not quite sure how much the typical Rockies fan actually knows.
Where is this poll so I can go vote?
With those who don't give a damn about baseball, I can only sympathize. I do not resent them. I am even willing to concede that many of them are physically clean, good to their mothers and in favor of world peace. But while the game is on, I can't think of anything to say to them. ~Art Hill
JFK
couldn't find it and got caught in the comments on the Barmes trade.
not a lot of geniuses reading that site.
Go Bruce!
this
Strikeouts are boring - besides that, they're fascist. Throw some more groundballs. Its more democratic. - Crash Davis
Haha...guess not enough to make signing Yu Darvish increase our attendance
ohnohedidn’t.jpg
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
Or the typical 9news viewer.
Suzy is the only one over there who truly understands and LIKES baseball.
Strikeouts are boring - besides that, they're fascist. Throw some more groundballs. Its more democratic. - Crash Davis
That doesn't really surprise me.
Casual fans don’t really follow the minors and wouldn’t know much about Nelson.
It also
isn’t surprising because EY2 is related to EY(1) who was/is a fan favorite so people expect/want him to have some success.
With those who don't give a damn about baseball, I can only sympathize. I do not resent them. I am even willing to concede that many of them are physically clean, good to their mothers and in favor of world peace. But while the game is on, I can't think of anything to say to them. ~Art Hill
JFK
Yep, that too.
Heck, I didn’t follow the minors at all for a long time and probably would have voted the same way. I’d be like, “Nelson who? Yay, EY2!!”
From Renck
Rockies walked away from meeting with De La Rosa’s representative feeling like he will get a four-year deal from another team.
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Hates Tulo. Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
ugh
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
Bazinga!!
SD Cat 09 is still awesome
by Junction Rox on Nov 18, 2010 3:06 PM MST up reply actions
well that sucks
With those who don't give a damn about baseball, I can only sympathize. I do not resent them. I am even willing to concede that many of them are physically clean, good to their mothers and in favor of world peace. But while the game is on, I can't think of anything to say to them. ~Art Hill
JFK
ugh, but understandable
No way do I guarantee four years for JDLR.
a 4th year team option at a lowish buyout? Okay.
But Renck’s tweet seems to imply he’s getting four years guaranteed, and no, I don’t do that.
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
Yeah.
Someone asked about him on Keith Law’s chat today, and Law said that while he likes JDLR’s arm, he bets he gets four years, which is crazy talk.
Crazy talk
Giving John Buck 3 years and $18m would have also qualified as crazy talk.
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
Does seem like George Romero is running some of these clubs
"Don't be pushed by your problems. Be led by your dreams."
I really want us to work something out with Francis...
He had a few really good starts even though he wasn’t completely healthy. I can’t see guaranteeing JDLR 4 years.
Go Bruce!
Does seem like George Romero is running some of these clubs
"Don't be pushed by your problems. Be led by your dreams."
Repost it
using the “Image” option on the FanShot.
"No Mission Too Difficult, No Sacrifice Too Great—Duty First" - 1st Infantry Division Motto
SB Nation Denver - The regional hub for Denver sports!
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.
Basically, I know we repost photos in comments all the time, but wasn't sure
about FanShots and the like. But Andrew took care of it.
That's a legal
gray area that all I can say is: Andrew, the rest of the staff, and I would be unable to use that in a regular post.
"No Mission Too Difficult, No Sacrifice Too Great—Duty First" - 1st Infantry Division Motto
SB Nation Denver - The regional hub for Denver sports!
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.
yeah, I'd much rather have the actual news source for this
by Andrew Martin on Nov 18, 2010 5:23 PM MST up reply actions
I actually tried looking for it, but failed.
The original tweet said the photo was courtesy the Luis Aparicio Award.
I would love to have Upton.
Or Floyd. But let’s take a step back and look at this closer:
I doubt we land Upton, but it’s nice to come up with scenarios to do so, that’s what the offseason is for. Matzek/Rosario/Nelson, those are the 3 young guns I wouldn’t trade at all under any circumstance. I’d consider Chacin though, and I know EY2 would be enticing. I think at the end of the day, the D’Backs don’t pull the trigger because an outfield of Upton/Fowler/CarGo is just ridiculous. Since I’ve grown up as a Rockies fan, I am (just like the FO) too attached to prospects/young players to ever pull the trigger on a big trade. I like what we’ve built on the farm and what we have on the roster right now. It would be really hard to break that up.
I wouldn’t trade Stewart for Floyd. That’s my personal view. I think Stewart is going to bust out next year and I would be torn if he was traded. It would be a huge mistake
Yeah, my username says it all.
Chacin is probably the MOST untouchable on my personal list.
I wouldn’t give up Chacin, Rosario, Maztek, and Friedrich for sure, unless the deal is too good to be true.
Chacin could be 4-5+ WAR player for the next several years
Rosario is the likely long-term catcher solution, assuming Iannetta doesn’t pan out
Maztek has about as high a ceiling as anyone in the organization
Friedrich is just a touch below Maztek on that scale
Brings up an interesting point though – if Iannetta rakes this year, would the FO try to flip Rosario for an everyday 2B?
Floyd seems like a fine option IMO. Still would prefer JDLR, mostly because I think that a full season (200+ IP) could be 4.5-5.5 WAR for JDLR vs ~4.0 for Floyd.
Rocktober is not a time of year, it is a religion.
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