Monday Rockpile: Are Yonder Alonso or Kila Ka'aihue worth the Rockies pursuits?
A lot of the talk during this offseason has been what to do with the Colorado Rockies' catching situation and the decline of Todd Helton at the plate. The solution that everyone's settled on is to get a catcher/1B combo in the form of Victor Martinez or Mike Napoli (assuming he's available), and everything would be peachy from there. Well, another major criticism of the Rockies in general in 2010 was far too many strikeouts. Sure, the Rockies weren't the Diamondbacks, who set the Major League record for team strikeouts in a season, the Rockies punched out in 23.0% of their PA.
Now, strikeouts aren't necessarily indicative of a lack of batting acumen, as the Rockies graded out at about league-average as far as batting goes (100 wRC+). Strikeouts are, however, the ultimate situational killer, and for a team that struggled situationally (well, that was the perception anyhow, as it turns out the Rockies hit better than the rest of the league in every situational split except for man-on-2nd-only and bases jacked) Napoli would continue to present further frustration. No Rockie with 90 or more PA in 2010 struck out as much as Mike Napoli's CAREER mark of 29.9% (Miguel Olivo came close at 29.7%).
Napoli is a very good batter, as his worst season in the majors showed a 110 wRC+ (suggesting that he was 10% better than the average batter), but my concern with Napoli is that he'd be a short term acquisition, with (I believe) 2 years remaining before free agency.
None of this is really indicting a Mike Napoli trade as a particularly bad idea, but what if the Rockies wanted to look longer term than that?
Two names that have been brought up recently have been Yonder Alonso of the Reds and Kila Ka'aihue of the Royals. Alonso is a 1B who has been blocked by this Joey Votto fellow and Billy Butler has forced Kila to take the part-time DH role. Just that sentence right there makes Kila slightly less plausible for Colorado, as he WILL get playing time in Kansas City, just maybe not at 1B. Which may be a decent thing, given that he's probably more suited to being a DH anyhow, from how his fielding is rated.
Here are some other reasons why Kila may not be a good fit for Colorado. He is left handed, for starters. Seriously though, is there a 1B in baseball that ISN'T left handed who is also not named Pujols? Like, one who's any good? Gah this is such a frustrating search. Anyhow, Kila. Left handed, doesn't really help the platoon situation. Stinks at fielding - maybe. SSS UZR says he has good range. Good for him. Batting-wise, he's committed hate crimes on the PCL, to the tune of an well rounded .945 OPS over 3 different seasons in AAA and over 1100PA. Pretty good, ya? Ehhh I'm not so sure. For starters, Kila DID get 200PA in the majors in 2010, and while SSS still reigns pretty supreme, he only managed a .217/.307/.394 line (.306 wOBA, 88 wRC+). While there are always growing pains in transitioning to MLB from AAA, Kila will be 27 on opening day.
Click past the jump for more.
To help this analysis, I decided to whip out the handy dandy Major League Equivalence calculator, thanks to the fine gentleman(men? ladies? folks?) who ran minorleaguesplits.com for such a long time. What this calculator does is take stats from the minors (and you can even pick the league and team!) and translates in them into neutral or park-adjusted MLB stats. For fun, I ran Brad Eldred's 2010 in AAA, and it spits out a Major League Equivalent line of .227/.278/.457 (amusingly enough, this is disturbingly close to Clint Barmes' 2009 line...weird). Sounds about right, given Eldred's .204/.259/.419 career line (and then add in some Coors magic). For the record, I don't HATE the idea of Eldred being a platoon partner for Helton, but let's stay on track here.
Getting down to brass tacks, Kila's impressive AAA numbers aren't nearly as impressive in the majors, even in Coors Field. The calculator suggests a line of .246/.362/.430 in the majors, which isn't AWFUL (in fact, that .362 OBP would have outmatched everyone on the team excepting Troy Tulowtizki, Carlos Gonzalez, Jason Giambi, and Todd Helton. Weird.), but when you get all slap happy looking at large AAA numbers and suddenly it translates into a sub-.800 OPS. a lot of that prospect-y luster is gone. How do you write "Joe Koshansky" in Hawaiian?
Let's move on because I'm sick of writing this and you're sick of reading it.
Yonder Alonso, blocked by Joey Votto, plays in AAA and is the Reds 2008 first round pick. He's 23, so there's a lot of projectable growth for this young man, and he's also left han- seriously? Another one? Yes, Yonder Alonso is left handed, so once again, the platoon is wrecked and the world is ending. Can we just take a young 1B prospect and trade in his ability to wink one eye at a time in exchange for a switch in batting handedness or something like that? What I'd give...
Anyhow, Alonso looks to be a decent contact hitter with power that we really haven't seen emerge yet and Bill James seems to think he can post a 110 wRC+ in 2011 given 130 games to prove himself. I'm not so sold, but then again, I'm a stats guy, and my magic calculator of snarkiness and exhaustion see Alonso's AAA numbers as being worth a .261/.311/.403 line in Colorado, a line which translates to "not very good". Difference is with Alonso, there's room to grow, and he's 1st round talent. There's an upside for you.
The way I see it with Yonder Alonso is that it behooves the Reds to move him. If they move him, they lose that rich Cuban batting goodness which could possibly be moved to RF or 3B or something, given that Joey Votto is phenomenal. If they keep Alonso, he's going to stagnate in AAA and lose what edge he had. Cincy can probably get a halfway decent return for Alonso. Not a phenomenal one, given that Joey Votto's incoming MVP kind of destroys any leverage the Reds may have had, but I'm sure a MLB player and some sort of prospect could get the job done. Cincy likes Venezuelan righties with control problems and Cole Garner, right?
So bottom line, I'm not terribly thrilled with the idea of either Kila or Alonso anymore, despite their interesting names. If we were to actually make a move for either 1B, gun to my head, I'd probably take Alonso given his age and projectability and all those other nifty words that make us feel better about prospects we're not 100% comfortable with. (seriously though, gun to my head? what kind of terrorist/bank robber actually cares about which blocked 1B prospects fit in Colorado? worst crime syndicate ever.)
Do you ever have this grand idea for something to write or present and then when you write the entire thing you realize that you just shot down all of your own ideas and brought yourself back to square 1? Great.
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In the list of related fanshots, this story came up from two years ago. Interesting.
Do you ever have this grand idea for something to write or present and then when you write the entire thing you realize that you just shot down all of your own ideas and brought yourself back to square 1? Great.
Yes. This more or less happened last week with Shields
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 22, 2010 6:41 AM MST reply actions
But sometimes, it takes that scientific analysis to disprove the theory
I mean, I’m totally off Kila now (thanks, AMart).
Of course, on the whole platoon thing, I’m no longer so fixated on getting a RH backup specifically for 1B, because once Todd retires, we won’t be so left-handed anyway.
Which is, I guess, another way of saying that if we get a likely shortish-term solution (Napoli) he should be RH, but if we’re looking longer term (Alonso), it really shouldn’t matter at all.
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
Do you ever have this grand idea for something to write or present and then when you write the entire thing you realize that you just shot down all of your own ideas and brought yourself back to square 1? Great.
Should’ve gone with our original idea, man. Would’ve saved you a lot of time and words.
"Todd Helton will OPS .950 in 2011, and we won't be able to get him off the field"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 22, 2010 6:46 AM MST up reply actions
I doubt it.
The answer to where to get a right-handed 1B sub for Helton and where to get a no. 5 hitter (the subject of Renck’s article today, saying a good no. 5 as protection for Cargo & Tulo is a must with JDLR slipping away) is the same: Houston. His name is Carlos Lee.
The Astros are shedding longterm contracts to clean the slate for a sale. They shipped out Lance Berkman, traded Roy Oswalt to Philly in a deal where they eat 1/2 his contract through 2011, dumped Pedro Feliz, let Geoff Blum go. I think they’d jump at an Oswalt-like deal: a couple of B or B+ prospects and a split of the remaining 2 years of Lee’s contract.
Lee’s a weak LF, but adequate at 1B. He can spell Todd at 1B at Coors, play LF more on the road in smaller parks, and DH in interleague play. Even if his decline last year continues, he’s good for 25 HR, 90 RBI. He fits the no. 5 hitter need, he fits the RH sub for Todd need, and with $10 mil NOT spent on JDLR, paying 1/2 of Lee’s salary will leave $1 million on the table.
Call Ed Wade back. It worked last time.
Mediocrity sucks
oh i doubt it too
Just saying that’s a short-worded solution. I actually did bring up Lee right after the world series in an article. If I recall correctly, you expressed interest then. If we knew what his issue was in 2010 AND Houston ate a bunch of salary, it could work. Though he would be in the outfield half the time, and that just hurts my feelings.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 22, 2010 7:48 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
I think his issue in 2010
was he just got off to a bad start, as the whole team did, plus normal age-related decline. The last 2/3 of the season, he hit pretty well.
The guy’s a mixed bag. He’s a consistent “professional hitter” (think Aubrey Huff on the Giants, only better) & generally well-liked by teammates. But he has defensive lapses (Hawpe-like, in that respect) & will occasionally not run out a ground ball.
If a similar deal (in terms of prospects and payroll cost) would bring in VMart or Napoli, I’d much prefer either of those guys, but I think both fall into the category of “wishful thinking” — Napoli because a top prospect would have to be surrendered, and VMart because he’s just going to cost too much. As indicated in the article, I don’t see many decent alternatives.
Mediocrity sucks
Don't let the perfect...
..spoil the perfectly good. I like the Carlos Lee idea. We need a basher, a righty one at that. Houston will likely help with his bloated salary too. Any talk about Yonder and Kila or Kilo or whatever his name is a waste of time unless those guys decide to become switch hitters in the off season.
How about Billy Butler? Is that a possibility?
by Curt in Florida on Nov 22, 2010 9:09 AM MST up reply actions
Butler is possible
but we’d have to pay a lot, as he is their best hitter and is in just his first arb year. He’ll be pretty cheap and is under control through 2013. We’d have to motivate them quite a lot to move him.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 22, 2010 9:25 AM MST up reply actions
Lee killed my fantasy team this year.
He played just good enough to stay in the lineup but poorly enough so that I was never competitive.
Not a fan, even for $10 million
The writer formerly known as Jabberwocky
READ and LEARN about the business of baseball at Purple Row Academy
Eschew Obfuscation!
by Jeff Aberle on Nov 22, 2010 10:53 AM MST up reply actions
Andrew Martin: Dream Killer.
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Hates Tulo. Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
Andrew Martin: The Last Wookiebender
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
So.....Napoli?
two Icehouse 24 oz beers = $3.20 two "fancy" Bud Light 24 oz beers = $5.00
NOW who comes out on top?
by frightened inmate #2 on Nov 22, 2010 8:29 AM MST reply actions
VMart
Do you think the front office would pony-up the millions it’d take if everybody on the Row promised to attend 5 extra games and consume $20 worth of hotdogs (that’s only about 2 dogs) each season for the next 4 years? I’m willing to sign the petition now, and I live a thousand miles from Denver!
I personally would prefer Willingham
He won’t cost too much in cash, will only be on for one year, and allowed to leave, he won’t cost us a draft pick in the deepest draft in years, will net us at least one pick when he leaves, and won’t tie us up for long.
VMart scares me a bit, giving him 4-5 years.
Let's compromise
And get Willingham and Vmart. :) I’m usually not one to push for big dollar free agents, but I like Vmart for the Rockies more than any other I’ve seen in recent years. He plays positions we’re weak at (at least for now), he isn’t a huge strikeout guy, he’s a switch-hitter, and (this may sound irrational) he’s a product of the Cleveland farm system and they seem to produce professional hitters with long careers. That being said I hadn’t considered the loss of the draft pick! If this is indeed one of the deepest drafts in years, then you have dampened my interest somewhat. You’ve also eased the pain if we lose JDLR. So maybe I do have to start thinking along the lines of help from within. That should be easy enough. I’ve been a believer of that for years. I will still commit to buying a hat off the team store website if that helps the team to afford Willingham.
I would love VMart
His bat fits perfectly with what this team. But, he would come at an absolute premium, and I feel that he has a very large risk of becoming an albatross after two years.
This to a T
If there were any way to get him on a 2-3 year deal, I’d go market value $-wise. But it seems clear he’s likely to get five years, and I think that would end up being a real mistake at $15m a year, or whatever around there.
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
by Mondogarage on Nov 22, 2010 10:02 AM MST up reply actions
I'd rather spend the money on VMart than Werth
but they’ll both get paid
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Hates Tulo. Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
Yeah, verily
Sounds like we all agree on V-Mart.
by Real Perspective on Nov 22, 2010 11:54 AM MST up reply actions
From Wikipedia
“Albatrosses are highly efficient in the air, using dynamic soaring and slope soaring to cover great distances with little exertion.” I rest my my case. :D
As much as we've talked about Napoli, I'm not sure how possible a trade would be
From what I’ve seen, they want MLB help at CF and/or 3B, and also are looking for back end bullpen help. And that’s not coming from fans. We aren’t trading Stewart or Fowler for Napoli, and we really have nothing else in those areas.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 22, 2010 8:44 AM MST up reply actions
I don't necessarily see a trade for a catcher
Not with Wilin in the Wings.
by Curt in Florida on Nov 22, 2010 9:10 AM MST up reply actions
Possible
Though Napoli could play a lot of 1B too, and Rosario is still recovering from an ACL injury. He shouldn’t have a starting role paved for him until 2012 at the earliest. I don’t want him rushed
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 22, 2010 9:26 AM MST up reply actions
Still need a way to deal with Todd
Politically sensitive hot potato. Proud guy in decline after storied career. Some in his position want to be traded to a contender, but surprise, he’s already with one. Not sure how he’ll deal with a strong RH first baseman taking innings away. Todd’s no defensive replacement, not with hit resume and paycheck. I would not be completely shocked, however, if he has a really poor spring and does retire. Life will be very different post-Todd, but as long as there’s a decent replacement on hand, it could happen.
by Curt in Florida on Nov 22, 2010 10:00 AM MST up reply actions
Trading for Napoli is a bit different than signing someone like Konerko
It is pretty much assumed that the Rockies will look for a RH 1B to take the pressure off of Todd, and allow him to actually do well next season. Napoli and Willingham fit that profile. It’s not like we would be getting a 150 game 1B to push Todd out.
Someone will have to do somehting about TH before long
Agree. Addressing Helton’s situation is important. I would hope DOD could find him an office job which would permit him to retire. But he could have another good season or two left in him.
by Real Perspective on Nov 22, 2010 12:00 PM MST up reply actions
Blackmon
and EY2?
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
Why not?
If Napoli answers current requirements, why wouldn’t either Stewart or Dex be worth sacrificing for the overall good? I don’t see either one of them as sacred, or as central to team success. But Napoli could mean a great deal to the Rox. Probably would not be a good aidea to throw both of them in to get him.
by Real Perspective on Nov 22, 2010 11:57 AM MST up reply actions
I don't believe for one second the FO wants Nelson or Herrera to be an everyday third baseman
nor would I expect them to roll with a Spilborghs/Cargo/Smith outfield with Garner and…Blackmon? in the outfield.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 22, 2010 11:59 AM MST up reply actions
But the idea is to fill a hole they currently have
not to fill a hole and open up another. There might be enough OF depth to cover up for the Fowler trade (or enough FA available to replace him), but trading Stewie for Napoli fills 2 part time holes while creating one full time hole…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
Bazinga!!
SD Cat 09 is still awesome
by Junction Rox on Nov 22, 2010 12:03 PM MST up reply actions
Matt LaPorta
What does the magic calculator say about him?
TGFPR!!
by jlot10 on Nov 22, 2010 10:18 AM MST via mobile reply actions
That he already has 2 seasons in the majors, we should probably look at those numbers
but for the sake of exploration, his career AAA numbers would equate to a .283/.359/.484 line – which is pretty solid. Bigger question is do we have a CC Sabathia to trade for him?
by Andrew Martin on Nov 22, 2010 10:25 AM MST up reply actions
No, however
With a new GM taking over it would be worth exploring the value he puts on LaPorta. He might be more interested in multiple, lesser pieces.
TGFPR!!
by jlot10 on Nov 22, 2010 10:43 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
I like this idea
His prospect star has definitely dimmed. It’s unclear though by how much though and how much he’d command. He had a really poor line drive rate this season. I wonder if Lansford could work with him – seems like he has similar problems to Iannetta (based off of numbers anyway).
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
No new news to discuss
Last week there were lots of little things happening that spured discussion. We need another domino to fall.
133 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 22, 2010 10:45 AM MST up reply actions
I meant the news was dead, should've clarified that
by Andrew Martin on Nov 22, 2010 10:47 AM MST up reply actions
NL MVP this afternoon?
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Hates Tulo. Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
Will that only be big news if they gave Votto the shaft?
two Icehouse 24 oz beers = $3.20 two "fancy" Bud Light 24 oz beers = $5.00
NOW who comes out on top?
by frightened inmate #2 on Nov 22, 2010 10:49 AM MST up reply actions
it's still something we have to cover though
especially since Cargo and Mullet will get votes
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Hates Tulo. Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
Yeah,
I was just thinking about the community. I dont’ think there’s anyone around who would find much fault with Votto winning.
two Icehouse 24 oz beers = $3.20 two "fancy" Bud Light 24 oz beers = $5.00
NOW who comes out on top?
by frightened inmate #2 on Nov 22, 2010 10:56 AM MST up reply actions
It's Thanksgiving week
I don’t think there will be much to talk about other than mvp’s and arbitration offers.
Yeah no Rockies news
All the baseball news is in New York right now with the Mets hiring a new manager and the Yankees making an offer to Jeter.
133 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 22, 2010 11:32 AM MST up reply actions
Arbitration offering deadline tomorrow?
Could find out which Type As or Bs we could go after who wouldn’t require a draft pick as compensation. Not too exciting but something, I guess.
"Don't be pushed by your problems. Be led by your dreams."
So, pretending for a moment that the Rockies could get the 2009 Todd next year...
… what’s the internal situation look like for eventually replacing him? The only 1B in the top 30 PuRPs is Ben Paulsen. Do any of the other young guys have 1B potential?
"Are they called the Rockies because they rock?" - 7 y.o.
If I were to predict two potential replacements for Todd
meaning full time, long term, 1B, I would say Parker or Arenado seem the most likely.
move Iannetta over? Stewart?
use Pacheco part time? Lots of options, none of them are really that great.
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Hates Tulo. Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
Stewie's a natural 3rd baseman though.
Maybe Iannetta when Rosario’s ready. Love the idea of Alonso.
Go Bruce!
hate that guy.
two Icehouse 24 oz beers = $3.20 two "fancy" Bud Light 24 oz beers = $5.00
NOW who comes out on top?
by frightened inmate #2 on Nov 22, 2010 10:56 AM MST up reply actions
Please elaborate
133 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 22, 2010 11:34 AM MST up reply actions
it would help him not move
from what I saw, his range is far better to the left side. And his arm is noodley
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Hates Tulo. Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
just saying he'd be better at 1B because it would hide a ton of weaknesses
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Hates Tulo. Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
or we could talk about Napoli some more or something
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Hates Tulo. Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
Arenado is by far the best shot
He and Paulsen might both start in Tulsa next year. Wouldn’t be shocked at all if Arenado skips Modesto. The org seems to love him. If so, the race is on!
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 22, 2010 11:13 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
Arenado is awesome
That dude has already shown some pop and he’s not even 20 yet. Love him.
133 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 22, 2010 11:38 AM MST up reply actions
Seriously though, is there a 1B in baseball that ISN’T left handed who is also not named Pujols?
So let’s just go get Pujols. Problem solved!!
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
Bazinga!!
SD Cat 09 is still awesome
exactly!
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
Bazinga!!
SD Cat 09 is still awesome
by Junction Rox on Nov 22, 2010 11:00 AM MST up reply actions
And it's on sale
Occam’s Razor is going for 8 years, $200m, step right up!
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
by Mondogarage on Nov 22, 2010 11:59 AM MST up reply actions
I hope it at least includes a pack of cartridges
actually, that’s about the regular price of some of those cartridges…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
Bazinga!!
SD Cat 09 is still awesome
by Junction Rox on Nov 22, 2010 12:02 PM MST up reply actions
Well, it uses 40 blades per season
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
by Mondogarage on Nov 22, 2010 12:08 PM MST up reply actions
Youkilis qualifies as an RH first baseman...
who’s pretty good.
I'm thinking Mo Vaughn
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
ah crap he batted lefty
nevermind :-(
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
There are several actually
Miguel Cabrera, Paul Konerko, Billy Butler, Derrek Lee, Michael Cuddyer, Gaby Sanchez, Mark Teixeria (although he bats both despite throwing right handed so I’m not sure if we count him)
133 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 22, 2010 11:30 AM MST up reply actions
Yonder who?
Yonder is not a good option and will not help the Rox.
by Real Perspective on Nov 22, 2010 12:02 PM MST reply actions
Get over Yonder?
Actually, I think the upside is there and he could be hitting his stride just as Todd gracefully exits stage right. I just wouldn’t want to give up too much for him, and I’m afraid Cincy will (rightfully perhaps) expect a very good prospect in return. I believe they paid a lot of money to sign him, so they’re probably not gonna just give him away for a middle reliever.
Yeah, and the Reds are young and contending...
plus they have pitching. Not a lot of speed, though.
Go Bruce!
Votto wins MVP in a landslide
Pujols 2nd, Cargo 3rd
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 22, 2010 12:03 PM MST reply actions
Cargo 3rd tulo 5th in MVP voting
congrats again to them in winning/being up there in many awards this year
LETS GO RED WINGS!
2011 will be the year....better be....
Troy Tulowitzki: "When people think of the Rockies, I want them to think of a winning organization."
3rd place MVP, 3rd place CY
somehow fitting? Or, I guess, terribly underachieving.
I meant to add:
considering we finished in 3rd place.
for only the second time ever
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 22, 2010 12:10 PM MST up reply actions
Solution: Trade for Joey Votto.
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Hates Tulo. Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
Votto's a lefty
we really need to hold onto Johnson to use in a deal to fill our real need for a righty bat…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
Bazinga!!
SD Cat 09 is still awesome
by Junction Rox on Nov 22, 2010 12:35 PM MST up reply actions
Renck
had this article this morning.
In it, he indicates that JDLR will likely get four years at $48 million from someone. After going over some of JDLR’s numbers, Renck asks
Is that worth $48 million over four years? There are already multiple teams that believe so
130 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 22, 2010 12:32 PM MST reply actions
Do not want Willingham
130 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 22, 2010 12:38 PM MST up reply actions
Oops nevermind
Read that as Wigginton (even though I typed it as Willingham)
130 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 22, 2010 12:41 PM MST up reply actions
But to get back to your original post
I believe that those are probably our best (realistic) options now.
130 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 22, 2010 12:44 PM MST up reply actions
I sure would love it
But it would take quite the raid of the farm to get both of them. Willingham I can see being pretty cheap. Maybe a Nicasio + bullpen guy. But Floyd is probably going to cost us a legit prospect.
How about split the difference
and sign Ty Willingham. He’s not coaching football anymore, is he? I bet he can play first.
two Icehouse 24 oz beers = $3.20 two "fancy" Bud Light 24 oz beers = $5.00
NOW who comes out on top?
by frightened inmate #2 on Nov 22, 2010 1:32 PM MST up reply actions
I really want JDLR back
but I have to agree with those who contend that this is too pricey. This is such a tough call. Overpayment carries its clear risks, but at the same time there right now seems to be no way that we can replace him with similar talent/upside. To me this is a real blow to the short-term interests of the team, even if its probably the “right” decision.
As far as resigning JDLR
It’s damn if we do and damn if we don’t. We can’t win; there’s only different levels of losing now.
130 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 22, 2010 12:49 PM MST up reply actions
RIRF, we open the season at home huh?
Arizona?
I'm GoRockies!! everybody :P
by CentralCaliRox on Nov 22, 2010 12:56 PM MST up reply actions
You got it
We start on Friday (instead of Monday), April Fools Day and play the D’Backs and Dodgers before going on an East Coast Road trip.
130 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 22, 2010 1:00 PM MST up reply actions
Okay thanks.
I'm GoRockies!! everybody :P
by CentralCaliRox on Nov 22, 2010 1:02 PM MST up reply actions
Wait, Dodgers at home???
Or in LA??
If it’s in LA, I’m totally going omG
I'm GoRockies!! everybody :P
by CentralCaliRox on Nov 22, 2010 1:03 PM MST up reply actions
At home
We don’t visit the Dodgers until Memorial Day
130 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 22, 2010 1:04 PM MST up reply actions
MLB liked my idea about starting the season at the beginning of the weekend rather than the end...
Not saying it was my ORIGINAL idea nut I did have it.
Go Bruce!
It's an excellent idea
Opening day can now extend into more of an Opening Weekend. People who leave work early or take the whole day off for Opening Day will now be kicking off a three day celebration instead of still having to go back to work the next day.
Also, it’s better to have more day games in early April because the weather is often cold. With Opening Day moved to Friday, you can now start the season off with three day games that people will have a much easier time attending. Fans will pack stadiums on the Friday games because it’s Opening Day and fans will pack the stadiums again on the Saturday and Sunday day games because it’s the weekend.
This move is good for the fans and good for the business and I applaud MLB for making it.
129 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 23, 2010 9:42 AM MST up reply actions
The timing isn't good
Not a great pitching market out there, which makes other teams more willing to overpay JdlR and makes it harder for us to find a replacement at a reasonable cost.
It’s so tempting to say they should match those offers, but if it backfires it would be kind of disastrous. And JdlR just doesn’t have the track record to say it won’t backfire…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
Bazinga!!
SD Cat 09 is still awesome
by Junction Rox on Nov 22, 2010 1:03 PM MST up reply actions
Good
JDLR will still be helping us by handcuffing some other team with a shitty contract.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
Yep, the short-term outlook isn't as favorable, but that's just not a good price.
Especially considering two of the organization’s top prospects are lefty starters coming up through the pipe the following two seasons. An all right-handed 5-man rotation next year is a scary reality, but a little easier to swallow considering the alternative is a 4-year 48 million dollar deal to a guy who missed half of last season with injury and can definitely be awful when not properly motivated.
If George of the Rose wants to go lose in Pittsburgh for a few million more dollars and an extra year of employment, then he’s obviously aligned his priorities towards money and job security as opposed to being a part of a good team. Or, his English-speaking agent has made up his mind, anyway :)
“No, Jorge. The Rockies are totally low-balling you. Yeah, like Greg Smith money. I know, I can’t believe it either. Yeah, time to resort to the Pittsburgh offer.”
I just don't see JDLR going to Pittsburgh or Baltimore or [insert crappy team here]
Maybe Washington though.
I think the people who are counting on Jorge being as good as gone might be surprised
I'm GoRockies!! everybody :P
by CentralCaliRox on Nov 22, 2010 12:57 PM MST up reply actions
I'd put Wahington in the crappy team category too though
130 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 22, 2010 1:01 PM MST up reply actions
As would I.
But I could see them going after JDLR actually. Pittsburgh, Baltimore.. Not so much because they’re more in the rebuilding category. I guess we’ll see what happens, very hard to predict this market. I just think the Rox have a real shot at landing him.
I'm GoRockies!! everybody :P
by CentralCaliRox on Nov 22, 2010 1:07 PM MST up reply actions
I'm not sure I agree
I don’t think the Rox are going to do something stupid when it comes to JDLR and I think somebody else will.
And Baltimore being in a rebuilding mode probably won’t matter because they have shown in the past that if they have money to spend, they will wave it at whatever Free Agents they can, sometimes foolishly. (They traded for Kevin Milwood last year and they were in on the Teixeria signing to the very end) I actually think they might be the favorite to sign JDLR.
130 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 22, 2010 1:22 PM MST up reply actions
I expected someone to mention this about the O's.
I’m just really anti-all RH rotation.
I'm GoRockies!! everybody :P
by CentralCaliRox on Nov 22, 2010 1:27 PM MST up reply actions
I didn't say that wasn't an honest path to pursue.
His pursuits, then, just wouldn’t align with my preferences for him :)
Agreed.
I would love to have JDLR back, but not for $48M. What do we get in the line of draft picks if he signs some place else again? Maybe another very good draft takes some of the sting out what we have to deal away to get a guy like Willingham?
It depends on who signs him
We get one sandwich pick, and anything from a 1st rounder to a 4th rounder.
Since I've been out of touch for a bit, does this Ian Stewart for Gavin Floyd rumor have any legs?
I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it. ~Rogers Hornsby
Some legs
According to Renck, we inquired on him, and they wanted Stewart in return. But it seems that talks went no further since we have no replacement for Stewart (which we don’t). I have a hard time seeing anything actually getting done, since they seem to want major league pieces back.
JDLR Compensation
If he were to sign with one of those crappy teams, PIT for example, would we get an early supplemental rnd and a 2nd rnd pick?
TGFPR!!
by jlot10 on Nov 22, 2010 1:38 PM MST via mobile reply actions
I see answer above
Seems from a cost perspective that PIT signing him would be best as we would have a 1st rnd, early sup and two 2nd rnds which would better fit into our cost structure than an extra 1st rndr.
TGFPR!!
by jlot10 on Nov 22, 2010 1:41 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
That is true to some extent.
And Pittsburgh would be the best of the protected picks, since it would be the 1st pick in the 2nd round.
But the team has been pretty aggressive in their drafting lately. So, two first rounders wouldn’t be a big issue.
Actually....
It might even be that two first rounders would allow us to draft the best two talents on the board regardless of their anticipated signability, knowing that if one doesn’t sign it’s not a total loss as we still have the other. I’d think it’d actually give us some leverage to get a better deal(s).
I like Gaby Sanchez and with Morrison coming up he might be worth a look
but his lack of flexibility makes me a 1a Willingham 1b Napoli guy
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
What about Allen Craig?
A 26-year old right-handed bat who can play first base or the outfield. In 871 plate appearances in AAA he posted a .321/.389/548 line. The Cardinals could use some help in their middle infield, so maybe the Rockies could offer Chris Nelson or EY, jr. straight up. This assumes, of course, the Cards intend to re-sign Pujols.
by Geriatric Gerry on Nov 22, 2010 4:15 PM MST via mobile reply actions

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