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Friday Rockpile: Lopez's Role, Bullpen Minus Delcarmen, Offseason Progress

We are now two months into the offseason, just about one week away from the half-way point between the final regular season game and pitchers/catchers report in mid-February.

This week, including baseball-wide events such as the arbitration deadline and the tender deadline, has shown the Rockies take their first steps towards their final 2011 team. I will be analyzing the projected roster, from before and after, behind the jump. First, I want to talk about the Rockies' latest posturing maneuver, the acquisition of Jose Lopez from the Mariners for RHP Chaz Roe.

I personally have been interested in acquiring Lopez this offseason, though I was expecting it to be via free agency after a non-tender. After laughing at dragging a warm body 9in Felipe Paulino out of Houston for certain non-tender Clint Barmes a couple of weeks ago, Dan O'Dowd felt it necessary to make a similar choice here, dragging Lopez away mere hours before he was to be non-tendered, ensuring that we would be the ones to land him. Comments like this one (via Troy Renck's twitter) from Assistant GM Bill Geivett, indicate that Lopez has been a significant target this offseason inside the front office, and while we've known for some time that he was on the radar, it's clear that they determined he was worth enough for a trade.

So, first, my thoughts on the trade: I'm not horribly upset about the loss of Roe. His placement in the organization has fallen over the past year and a half, and a rough 2010 at AAA ground any further progress to a halt. Having only been added to the roster as a Rule 5 protectee last November, there was time to hang onto him if we wanted, but the organization is currently filled with more valuable starting pitching prospects who will be knocking on the door by 2012, the soonest Roe would have had a chance. As with any trade, whether or not we dumped Roe for ultimately nothing as we did with Chris Balcom-Miller (more on that later), will be determined somewhere down the line. From simply an understanding of value in the organization, Roe didn't have as much as he used to. He's not, in my eyes, a significant loss.

Star-divide

On to Lopez himself. The reason he caught my eye, over other potential utility candidates like Bill Hall or a return of Melvin Mora, was largely the age, as Lopez has only turned 27 as recently as last week. He's at an interesting career point, as few players have as much MLB experience as he does at this age, after a young start. Further, Lopez has experience all across the infield, and will likely be a candidate for multiple utility positions if he doesn't wind up starting. While his defense is generally considered adequate at best, he will fit somewhat comfortably at second base, as well as behind Ian Stewart at third and Todd Helton at first. In essence, he provides a right handed option with some degree of power behind three positions with performance concern going into the season. On paper, there's an easy spot for a player of this type on the roster, moreso than say a Lance Berkman or Jason Giambi (though it should be noted that Jose Lopez, while capable of playing first, is not likely a candidate for a straight platoon there with Helton, thus leaving open the possibility of another acquisition for that role).

At the plate, Lopez, as a right handed hitter, gives us a potential power threat farther down in the lineup, though his power numbers last year dropped significantly from a career year in 2009, not at all unlike the past two years of the departed Barmes. Also like Barmes, Lopez is a free swinger, who walks VERY little, though his K rates are a significant bit lower than Barmes' over their careers. What we can expect from Lopez, in the best case, is a resurgence in power aided by the offensive nature of Coors Field, and at worst, another frustrating hitter in Barmes' fashion.

Overall, I feel Lopez has enough of a chance of outperforming both Mora and Barmes on the roster, flaws included, to stamp this acquisition as an upgrade to last year's team, at least offensively. However, if Lopez sees himself performing as he did to last year's standards, it may become quickly evident that another player was what we needed. The major question is what his role will be. Lopez has been a starter at second or third base nearly every year of his career, and I find it likely they will at least pretend to consider him as an option to dethrone the Eric Young Jr./Chris Nelson/Jonathan Herrera clan. Ideally, however, I would like to consider Lopez to be a situational infielder to be used when right handed power is needed, or another player needs a day on the bench. He provides mediocre but acceptable insurance for an aching Helton, a struggling Stewart or a young second baseman caught in a starting riptide and in need of rescue.

Oh, and he also contributes to the Venezuelan presence on the team, and even though I think that means next to nothing from a performance standpoint, it is relevant because of just how large that population is on our team.

Lopez is arbitration eligible, but past the service time point to be optioned, so even though he only used one option year in his career, he would have to clear waivers and consent to assignment for such a thing to occur.

UPDATE: Muzia pointed to this Jon Morosi tweet n the comments, which indicates that Jose Lopez has already agreed to a 2011 salary of $3.6 million, eliminating the need for a salary through arbitration.

More team notes after the jump.

Off Topic

 

Projected Roster

The following is my projected roster for 2011 using only players we have in the organization, with the crossed out players being the original projection I made as of the free agent declarations that have changed. Remember, this is not a fantasy roster, nor is it the roster I believe we will have on April 1st. This is merely to show the team in transit from one point to another. It is designed to show us who is going to be the natural (and contractual) favorite for every roster spot, and help identify where we still need to go.

C Chris Iannetta
C Michael McKenry
1B Todd Helton
2B Eric Young Jr.
SS Troy Tulowitzki
3B Ian Stewart
IF Clint Barmes IF Jose Lopez
IF Jonathan Herrera
OF Carlos Gonzalez
OF Dexter Fowler
OF Seth Smith
OF Ryan Spilborghs
OF Cole Garner


SP Ubaldo Jimenez
SP Jhoulys Chacin
SP Jason Hammel
SP Aaron Cook
SP Esmil Rogers SP Jorge De La Rosa

RP Huston Street
RP Rafael Betancourt
RP Matt Belisle
RP Manny Delcarmen RP Felipe Paulino
RP Franklin Morales
RP Matt Reynolds
RP Matt Daley/RP Esmil Rogers

We could still use another outfielder, another catcher, and while the bullpen is full, adding to it should hardly be a problem if the right player is found.

Non-Tendered

With Delcarmen being non-tendered yesterday, a spot was opened in the right handed bullpen to allow both Felipe Paulino and Esmil Rogers, rotation candidates effectively rerouted to the bullpen as of the signing of Jorge De La Rosa, with Matt Daley's name remaining in the mix, particularly if Rogers is allowed a fourth option year to continue starting at AAA. It should be remembered that Delcarmen was acquired from Boston with every intention of allowing him to try and rebuild himself here over the next two years before free agency (not just as a September addition), but the right handed side of the bullpen continued to be an issue, even after Octavio Dotel declined arbitration earlier in the week, particularly with both Rogers and Paulino being displaced from the rotation. Ultimately, Delcarmen's loss is a bit sour, particularly for fans of Chris Balcom-Miller, but the rationale makes sense. Over the past three months, the Rockies dropped Delcarmen and Taylor Buchholz from the expected 2011 pen, and lost Manuel Corpas to injury and ultimately to release. The fact that we're struggling to find room for everyone precisely illustrates the crowding I have been seeing there for some time.

Finally, some other non-tender information. MLBTradeRumors kept a Tender Tally, showing us every player who has joined the free agent market as a result of not being offered a 2011 contract by their original teams. Those lists can be found here (NL) and here (AL).

A couple notable names, particularly for Rockies fans, include:
- Russell Martin: a top 3 starting catcher two years ago, sidelined by injury and overworking. If he's healthy, he absolutely must be a consideration for addition, but he will attract interest from all over.

- Matt Diaz: a possible target for an outfield platoon role. Several other once notable outfielders, including Lastings Milledge, Fred Lewis and Ryan Church were also not tendered contracts, but Diaz is the only one we've been tied to.

- Scott Hairston, bane of the Rockies existence, will hopefully be signing somewhere as far away from us as possible in the AL East.

- Former Rockies Jack Cust, Joel Peralta and Taylor Buchholz, who never got a chance to do anything for the Red Sox, were not tendered contracts.

Next week comes the final major MLB offseason event of 2010, the Winter Meetings in Florida, which will be culminating next Thursday with the Rule 5 Draft. Baseball then goes largely on break for the holidays, with arbitration procedures beginning as 2011 kicks off.

LINKS:
Reactions to the Lopez Trade

Troy Renck of the Denver Post (Also, he shares more specific thoughts on his blog here.)

Thomas Harding of MLB.com

Tracy Ringolsby, Inside the Rockies

Rockies Summary

Harding also provides a blueprint of the current team situation, not unlike what you will find here on Purple Row. This article was written before the Lopez trade, and does not include Lopez on the list of arbitration eligible players. Just remember to include him in your brain.

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I'm off the ledge...

this is an ideal buy low scenario on Lopez. Any earlier and the Mariners would ask for too much for his “potential” and team control, any later and another team would have already stepped in. Roe, as you indicate, would be hard-pressed to compete for a spot anywhere on the pitching staff (same would be true of CB-M in a couple of seasons, but I digress) so if the Rockies like him and think he could rebound, this was the time to grab him. I’m still sketchy, players don’t always peak at 27, sometimes they peak at 25, sometimes at 31, if he’s hit an early peak, we’re in trouble, if last year was just a blip to the downside, we’ll be fine.

by Rox Girl on Dec 3, 2010 7:36 AM MST reply actions  

the trade is undoubtedly a positive

As it is perfectly sensible to suspect a move from Seattle to Colorado could help him. I highly recommend reading Jeff Sullivan’s thoughts on the matter at Lookout Landing. My only worry is him getting the Olivo treatment from Tracy, allowing Lopez to start through slumps based on an early hot streak. I’m cautiously optimistic.

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 3, 2010 7:40 AM MST via mobile up reply actions  

I actually love the Lopez trade!

    I know there’s a lot of negative feelings about this deal, but I’m actually pretty excited. Here’s why:

1) Sure he doesn’t walk, but he doesn’t strike out much either! This team needs that!
2) He’s young and has had success before last year.
3) His numbers were consistantly better away from Safeco
4) His numbers versus lefties were quite a bit better and that’s our big need.
5) He can play all the infield positions we need a RH bat.

      To me this looks like the perfect candidate for a change of scenery, change of coaching-staff break-out. If he doesn’t have a break-out year, he’s still Melvin Mora with more power. A Barmes with less strikeouts and worse defensive. Which is acceptable. But if he does have a break-out season….. I could see him being a Garrett Atkins (in his prime) type bat in the lower part of the line-up.

by Iowarocks on Dec 3, 2010 7:59 AM MST up reply actions  

I'd like to add to your first point

Not striking and not walking could really help him in Colorado because this means he puts lots of balls in play; and Coors Field rewards hitters who do that.

Lopez has a career BABIP of .280, has never had a BABIP higher than .309, and last year had an awful BABIP of .254. But take a look at the Mariners BABIP numbers when playing at home during the last five seasons.

2010: .289
2009: .292
2008: .301
2007: .310
2006: .295

Average BABIP = .297

AS a team, the Mariners BABIP numbers at home during the last five years are only 17 points highers than Lopez’s career BABIP.

Now compare those home BABIP numbers to the Rockies home BABIP numbers.

2010: .341
2009: .323
2008: .318
2007: .333
2006: .331

Average BABIP = .329

So the Rockies as a team at home have average 32 BABIP points higher than the Mariners over the last five seasons. This is not a coincidence. Coors Field drives up your BABIP numbers and that’s exactly what Lopez needs for his overall numbers to improve.

120 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 3, 2010 9:49 AM MST up reply actions   1 recs

Holy crap!

Can you imagine projecting Ichiros numbers into that Coors BABIP? YOWZAHS!

@charliedrysdale

by Charlie77 on Dec 3, 2010 11:22 AM MST via mobile up reply actions  

I question how much this would help Ichiro though

Ichiro already has a career BABIP of .357 and I think this has a lot to do with his speed creating infield hits and his ability to slap the ball wherever he wants. Well Coors would likely help Ichiro like it does everyone else, I think it’s effects on his numbers would be quite limited.

120 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 3, 2010 11:31 AM MST up reply actions  

I think the power effects would be interesting

I remember, back a few years, a story talking about Ichiro being able to change his hitting style at will and crank home runs. I wonder what he would do with his swing in a different home offensive environnment.

by deacs on Dec 3, 2010 11:32 AM MST up reply actions  

It might not be a bad idea to make that bet again

Something clicked for Granderson in the second half last year. In his last 66 games he had 17 home runs and a .914 OPS.

120 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 3, 2010 12:15 PM MST up reply actions  

out of curiosity what have our road BABIP's been?

Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908

by TomCat009 on Dec 3, 2010 4:36 PM MST up reply actions  

Bad in 2010 but close to the Mariners overall during the last five years

2010: .277
2009: .286
2008: .300
2007: .311
2006: .289

Average BABIP = .293

120 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 3, 2010 9:31 PM MST up reply actions  

I'm not...

 Looking at his situational and clutch stats I found some contridictions to some extent borne out in his leverage stats. He is slightly below average at moveing runners and productive outs; but peeked above in 2008&9. He hits poorly with runners in scoreing position but likes to pile on in the sixth and seventh innings to on going rallies.
 
He doesn’t like to face set up men or closers in the eighth or ninth innings but is a fast ball hitter. He is most productive hitting line drives with some success hitting on the ground. His flyball success rate is abysmal but he does hit the occasional sac fly. Looking at the numbers specifically it seems he pops out a lot with no chance of flareing a hit.
 
 His pinch hitting record is virtually nil. His late and close stats are uninspireing. He comes across as average in OPS or slightly below; but looking at those other stats I’d say that’s overly weighted by his homers.

 This sounds too much like Barmes to me without the glove.

"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana

by Oldfoagie on Dec 3, 2010 8:14 AM MST up reply actions  

Agreed

whether it works out or not it is a good buy low situation. The season before Beltre left Seattle Lopez had a better WAR so there is potential.

"Don't be pushed by your problems. Be led by your dreams."

by dsmba on Dec 3, 2010 8:40 AM MST up reply actions  

I get the power potential, but how is this a buy low scenario?

Lopez has never had a season where he has walked in more than 4% of his at bats. I don’t think his defensive value will be an anchor, but it’s probably not going to be something that adds value if he spends significant time at 2B.

After that, we’re left with power and hitting for average. He doesn’t even hit for enough average to bring his OBP into respectable territory (like Olivo). Then, there’s the power potential. He’s had one season of 20+ home runs, and in that season (2009) his OBP was so low (.303) that his bat barely added any value.

Are you basing the buy low/rebound on his age, or something more?

by deacs on Dec 3, 2010 9:25 AM MST up reply actions  

Well, I guess on park factors too. But I think the idea of moving to Coors significantly raising Lopez’s ability to get on base is suspect.

by deacs on Dec 3, 2010 9:26 AM MST up reply actions  

How is it not a buy low scenario?

How can his perceived value get any lower without him flaming out completely? I get the concern about the on base skills, but with his contact skills alone his OBP should at least be regularly over .300 in any ballpark, let alone Coors, that it wasn’t last season was a pretty big fluke. He’s still got nice line drive rates, it reads to me that he was just a tiny bit off last year at the plate. Mariners fans have been upset that he hasn’t been able to adjust and the Mariners have had numerous batting coaches to try and help him in his career thus far, but a change of scenery might help. Keep in mind that his best season at the plate happened to coincide with a batting coach that came from the Rockies organization.

by Rox Girl on Dec 3, 2010 9:45 AM MST up reply actions  

Agree that a change of scenery/better coach might help

but since when does “OBP should at least be regularly over .300” cut it? We’re not talking about him going from .297 to .350 OBP, we’re talking about him going from .270 to maybe .320. And that’s generously assuming his line drive rate will land him more hits, and that his HR/FB ratio will rise back to 2009 levels.

Also, if we’re treating him like a buy low candidate because we think he needs a change of scenery and we’re blaming his woes on Safeco, wouldn’t other interested teams do the same? In that case, everybody is aware of the “bargain” and it’s not really a bargain at all because there would have been competition for his services.

by deacs on Dec 3, 2010 9:50 AM MST up reply actions  

.320 may be generous.

fear that moving to an offensive park may give him even more reason to hack at everything.

by mkorpal on Dec 3, 2010 9:52 AM MST up reply actions  

The assumption that everybody's aware of the bargain is false.

It’s the kind of thing that J.C. Bradbury does a lot and what drives me crazy about his sabernomics website. There’s always going to be somebody who catches something before other people, it’s how pretty much all billion dollar hedge funds are born. That said, the common or conventional wisdom is also often correct. It’s clearly a buy low here because because nobody was offering more than the Rockies, and the Rockies were not offering much. Now whether it turns out to be worth it, whether his OBP does pass into an acceptable range, we can be free to debate, and you should know that I’m already more inclined to agree with you on that than not, but that doesn’t change the fact that if Lopez is who the Rockies think he is, they got him at a bargain.

by Rox Girl on Dec 3, 2010 10:02 AM MST up reply actions  

All due respect, but I don't follow your logic.
It’s clearly a buy low here because because nobody was offering more than the Rockies, and the Rockies were not offering much.

He was going to be non-tendered. He was inches away from that line, and no one was offering anything to stop it from happening besides the Rockies. So, as much as people want to make the case that the Rockies got a bargain because, hey, they traded a C prospect for a guy with major league experience, ok power, some defensive flexibility, and a bit of upside overall, all they really did was trade a C prospect for the exclusive rights to him instead of competing for him on the open market. Chaz Roe was basically a posting fee.

That they felt they needed to trade for him instead of waiting to sneak in and sign him after the non-tender is enough evidence that they thought other teams would make competitive offers. It doesn’t really matter why they would make competitive offers, but it’s probably because they were making the same buy-low case that is being made here.

This isn’t one of Bradbury’s “it’s so obvious to me, so it must be obvious to everyone” scenarios. The Rockies took action because, for whatever reason, they thought other teams would be interested after the non-tender.

by deacs on Dec 3, 2010 10:13 AM MST up reply actions  

I'm not saying that they weren't right. That other teams weren't interested and just waiting.

Roe plus whatever Lopez’s arbitration salary (or contract before then) will be was a price the Rockies found acceptable for him, and apparently they felt there was enough outside interest that this price is less than what they would be paying for him while competing with other teams for his services.

The other teams’ interest or competition for him doesn’t preclude this from being a buy low scenario, it’s a buy low if his acquisition price was never lower before this point, which is no doubt true given his previous two seasons which were above average and before that he was a young promising prospect that made his MLB debut at 20 years old, and that it’s got a pretty high likelihood of going back up after this point. As has been pointed out, he has a pretty solid chance of rebounding and regaining some of that value. That’s what makes it a buy low, a textbook definition of one, actually, as after this he either rebounds and builds up his value, or continues his decline and becomes a freely available talent that gets a flier on a minor league contract.

by Rox Girl on Dec 3, 2010 10:34 AM MST up reply actions  

Buy low and bargain are not interchangable terms

Do you have a source for that being the textbook definition of a buy low scenario?

In the absolute, yes, this was a buy low. It was not, however a bargain to have to surrender anything in order to pay $3M to someone who was barely above replacement level last season (and who is not a sure bet to outproduce the in-house options, which is the most baffling aspect of this to me). Nor was it a buy low in the sense that the Rockies were picking up a little known, but useful commodity that no one had interest in.

Perhaps this disagreement just stems from my misconception of what you meant by buy low.

by deacs on Dec 3, 2010 10:44 AM MST up reply actions  

I'm not saying the terms are interchangeable

Lopez is a bargain if his performance exceeds the cost the Rockies have and will put into acquiring him, that is, if Roe doesn’t pan out for the Mariners and the Rockies get more than his contract’s worth from Lopez in 2011.

Lopez is a buy low if the acquisition cost wasn’t ever as low as it was at the time of acquisition, which is likely true, and if it goes up after the point of acquisition, which is uncertain at this point, but if it goes any lower, in MLB terms, lower is not really a cost at all, but basically free, which would put him into another category for me as I think you need a “buy” for something to be a buy low. For example, Wily Mo Pena isn’t really a buy low for the Diamondbacks, he’s a roll of the dice, a harmless gamble that costs them essentially nothing but that could pay off. This would be the next step down for Lopez given the acquisition cost.

by Rox Girl on Dec 3, 2010 11:08 AM MST up reply actions  

You’re talking about a guy who’s been worth an average of 1.44 WAR per full season (7.2 over five). Not Wily Mo Pena territory, but not too far off from Alex Cora territory.

Again, I agree that it’s a buy low in the absolute sense. But it’s a fine line between buy low and scrap heap.

by deacs on Dec 3, 2010 11:19 AM MST up reply actions  

On this I agree. The Rockies have to be right for this to really turn out as either a buy low or a bargain.

But their reasoning is okay in making the move as long as they’re pretty certain that they are correct.

Alex Cora.., who Jim Tracy really loved as a player by the way.

by Rox Girl on Dec 3, 2010 11:22 AM MST up reply actions  

This is what I'm most terrified of with this deal.

Tracy developing an Olivo-like love of Lopez if he has an early hot streak, and continuing to play him all year even if he massively slumps.

I just want Chris Nelson to get a shot. :(

by Shoemaker on Dec 3, 2010 11:25 AM MST up reply actions  

Of course, it is remotely possible that Lopez could justify the playing time

Remotely. But his OBP would still make me angry.

Is he known as a streaky player?

by deacs on Dec 3, 2010 11:28 AM MST up reply actions  

All of that said, I do hope he hits .295/.315/.460.

I think he’s capable of that playing 81 games at Coors, and that would be awesome. I also think people discount him too much because of his weight. He’s not just a big fat fatty. He can play enough defense to not sink that batting line.

by deacs on Dec 3, 2010 10:15 AM MST up reply actions  

Here's how I'm looking at this

Barmes was probably going to be a non-tender guy. So was Lopez. If it played out like that, we get nothing for one and we get one for nothing. Which kind of makes the sum of these deals a trade of Roe for Paulino. That’s a deal I can live with.

Of course, with Paulino in hand, you can argue there was a chance to double down by waiting and getting Lopez for nothing. Maybe that was an option, maybe not. For the price of Chaz Roe, at this point I’m not inclined to worry about it a lot…

We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!

Bazinga!!

SD Cat 09 is still awesome

by Junction Rox on Dec 3, 2010 10:48 AM MST up reply actions  

I think it depends on where Tracy puts him

I think this whole trade hinges on how well C. Nelson plays out of the gate in ST. If he plays well and earns the 2B job over Lopez which relegates Lopez to our super sub then it would essentially be a swap for Mora. Granted, Lopez can’t play in the outfield, but the argument could be made that neither can Mora (especially at Coors). It seems at worst it should be a pretty solid insurance policy for our IF. Of course, at best Lopez wins the 2B job and regains his 2008/2009 form and becomes a strong back of the lineup RHB.

by RockiesRick! on Dec 3, 2010 7:59 AM MST reply actions  

My fear is that

This team will expect much more out of him than they should. In normal years, he is the kind of guy who gets league minimum in February as a flier, not 2-3 million in December as a legit answer. I hope O’dowd proves me wrong and gets another, more secure option, but I fear that this IS the answer for our RH bat, one with many many question marks.

by mkorpal on Dec 3, 2010 8:04 AM MST reply actions  

what will happen

Is O’Dowd will acquire Willingham while Stewart and Lopez go crazy and breakout. Not acne, mind you, like big-time hitting. Then a Dex/Helton/Cargo/Tulo/Stewart/Willingham/Lopez/Iannetta lineup will run roughshod over the league. Yep. Thassit.

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 3, 2010 8:14 AM MST via mobile up reply actions  

IAWTC

Clint Barmes is not a good hitter.

Free Chris Nelson.... again.

by wolf213 on Dec 3, 2010 8:30 AM MST up reply actions  

YES PLEASE!

BTW, is Willingham a free agent?

"My eyes! The goggles do nothing!" - Rainier Wolfcastle

by BittenAnkles on Dec 3, 2010 8:58 AM MST up reply actions  

no, he would require a trade

And he would be almost undoubtedly a Type A FA after 2011. The nats want mlb ready pitching, but Renck isn’t convinced Rogers would interest them.

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 3, 2010 9:05 AM MST via mobile up reply actions  

this is a really far fetched idea

I don’t see Tracy batting Helton second

by BringItHome on Dec 3, 2010 9:59 AM MST up reply actions  

He had 97 ABs there in 2010.

Not out of the realm of possibility.

by deacs on Dec 3, 2010 10:01 AM MST up reply actions  

It was more of a joke than anything

the whole idea seemed far fetched. Helton could actually be a perfect 2 hole hitter if his average bounces back. It also depends on if Tracy is willing to have two lefties in the 2-3 spot in the lineup.

by BringItHome on Dec 3, 2010 10:12 AM MST up reply actions  

Skeptical

Seems to me that Nelson brings roughly the same skill set (except better defense)
& would cost about 80% less.

Mediocrity sucks

by Maris6161 on Dec 3, 2010 8:25 AM MST reply actions  

i dont think Nelson could approach 30HR with Coors as his home park

Much less in Seattle. Its possible they have the same production ceiling in the future, but Lopez has proven he can reach it before

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 3, 2010 8:46 AM MST via mobile up reply actions  

You can have those thirty HRs if they are mostly solo shots.

 He’s going to need to improve a lot more with runners in scoreing position to sell me.

"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana

by Oldfoagie on Dec 3, 2010 9:23 AM MST up reply actions  

It would be a mistake to ascribe that solely to Lopez, when the Mariners, as a club, don't put enough on base to start with

So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?

Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?

by Mondogarage on Dec 3, 2010 9:24 AM MST up reply actions  

I was looking at his career stats; not just last year.

"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana

by Oldfoagie on Dec 3, 2010 9:27 AM MST up reply actions  

FreeChrisNelsonFreeChrisNelsonFreeChrisNelsonFreeChrisNelsonFreeChrisNelsonFreeChrisNelson

I don’t really hate Jose Lopez the acquisition (okay, maybe I do) but I am terrified of Lopez being used in a Jim Tracy lineup. Tracy has shown may times in the past that he’d rather give the experienced guy far more playing time and chances than the young kid with upside.

Lopez may break out, and he may not, but I can see him getting 350+ AB this season regardless.

Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Still hates Tulo, but is quickly losing momentum.
Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver

by Muzia on Dec 3, 2010 9:05 AM MST reply actions  

I can actually see Herrera replaceing him both offensive and defensively late in games.

 He hits better in leverage and he pinch hits better than Lopez. I see Tracy giving him 400 AB’s before figureing that out. Flip this guy before it’s too late.

"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana

by Oldfoagie on Dec 3, 2010 9:12 AM MST up reply actions  

Am I not discribing a backup's role?

 I’d rather have Jonny hitting late in a game when it really counts because he likes to. I don’t read that in Lopez’s stat line. Can Nelson hit in the clutch? I don’t know.

"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana

by Oldfoagie on Dec 3, 2010 10:01 AM MST up reply actions  

he can steal in the clutch though

With those who don't give a damn about baseball, I can only sympathize. I do not resent them. I am even willing to concede that many of them are physically clean, good to their mothers and in favor of world peace. But while the game is on, I can't think of anything to say to them. ~Art Hill
JFK

by jrockies on Dec 3, 2010 12:08 PM MST up reply actions  

Even 1st base?

So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?

Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?

by Mondogarage on Dec 3, 2010 12:17 PM MST up reply actions  

Might as

well bring back Willy T if stealing 1st is allowed.

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by Russ Oates on Dec 3, 2010 12:17 PM MST up reply actions  

Love it!

Lopez was the best hitter in a horrible lineup in Seattle, played in the most pitcher friendly park in the AL and had ZERO protection. He is a career .280 hitter on the road and likely a .300+ hitter at Coors and can play all infield positions. It is fair to assume that he can bat .300, 25-30 HRs and 90+ RBIs…not bad for a 27yr old middle infielder.

While I would like to see Nelson get a chance, he has a ways to go before you can play him over Lopez who, when he had protection (Branyan) batted .290 with 25 HRs and 96 RBIs in one of the least hitter friendly parks in baseball.

Great move!

by Da1Truth on Dec 3, 2010 9:11 AM MST reply actions  

Say what?

Lopez was most definitely not Seattle’s best hitter.

by mkorpal on Dec 3, 2010 9:29 AM MST up reply actions  

Yeah...

Don’t they haz some Japanese guy?

Go Bruce!

by Since1993 on Dec 3, 2010 1:58 PM MST up reply actions  

Is it fair to assume

That Barmes can hit .300, 25-30 home runs, and 90RBI.

Hell no.

by mkorpal on Dec 3, 2010 9:30 AM MST up reply actions  

Lopez has done the latter of those two things and did them while playing half of his games in Yellowstone. I think this guy’s reaching, but I also think Lopez is a much better offensive player than Clint Barmes. Much, much better.

"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton

by Franchise26 on Dec 3, 2010 9:32 AM MST up reply actions  

I personally don't think he is all that much better

But, thats just my opinion. When I look at Lopez, all I see is a fat lazy guy.

by mkorpal on Dec 3, 2010 9:36 AM MST up reply actions  

There’s a lot of anecdotal evidence that points to the contrary about the laziness issue, some of which you can read from the links posted in the article today.

"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton

by Franchise26 on Dec 3, 2010 9:37 AM MST up reply actions  

No.

In 2009, he hit 17 of his 25 home runs on the road. He hit 8 of them in Safeco. He’s not some wizard of power who defies the parameters of an unfriendly hitting environment.

He’s only a marginally better hitter than Barmes: a slightly better bet to hit for a higher average (and thus get on base) and maybe a better bet to hit for more power (Barmes had a better SLG than him in 2008 and 2010).

by deacs on Dec 3, 2010 9:37 AM MST up reply actions  

17 home runs on the road

Equals maybe 19 at Coors, so perhaps we have ourselves a 36-homer player! Not bad….

by biondino on Dec 3, 2010 9:39 AM MST up reply actions  

So you’ll discount Lopez’s home field disadvantage while making no account for Barmes’ home field advantage?

Barmes has never been as good as Lopez was in 08 and 09. Period.

"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton

by Franchise26 on Dec 3, 2010 9:41 AM MST up reply actions  

I didn't say anything about Barmes' home field advantage.

The first paragraph, which talks about Lopez’s home/road splits, was unrelated to the second paragraph, which talks about their overall hitting profiles.

Also, in 2009, Clint hit 13 HR at home and 10 on the road. If we treat Lopez’s road games like we treat Clint’s home games, that’s a more even distribution for Barmes.

by deacs on Dec 3, 2010 9:45 AM MST up reply actions  

Barmes park adjusted wOBA was higher than Lopez in 2010 (.281 to .278)

Not that I’d hang my hat on that.

Lopez in 2009 had only a slightly better wOBA than Barmes in 2008: .339 to .330.

On the other hand, Lopez in 2008: .342 wOBA (adjusted), Barmes in 2009: .308 wOBA (adjusted). So, Lopez has been better than Barmes, which is not really something that I would argue. But his best is not hugely better than Barmes’ best.

by deacs on Dec 3, 2010 11:12 AM MST up reply actions  

Ive got hats for days

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Dec 3, 2010 1:41 PM MST up reply actions  

Except Lopez did his .341 at age 24....

and willl be 27 for all of 2011. Barmes is 32. This isn’t hard to figure out. Good trade for O’Dowd.

by GoRoxGo on Dec 3, 2010 2:52 PM MST up reply actions  

Except that we weren't talking about age
Barmes has never been as good as Lopez was in 08 and 09. Period.

Also, thanks to the deer meat, we’ll never know if Barmes could have been as mediocre as Lopez.

by deacs on Dec 3, 2010 2:56 PM MST up reply actions  

He batted .272 that year (2009)

and got on base just barely more than three times in every ten plate appearances. In other words, he made seven outs for every ten plate appearances.

And, Ichiro?

by deacs on Dec 3, 2010 9:32 AM MST up reply actions  

Salary

Maybe this was discussed in the thread last night, but what will he make in 2011? Unless a contract is worked out, the Rockies have to offer him arbitration, right? And then he makes no less than $3.6m.

Or do I have something wrong there? Because the idea of him making $5m next year would really poop on this deal for me.

by deacs on Dec 3, 2010 9:16 AM MST reply actions  

Oh, yes, I was misreading the Cot's thing

He made $2.3M last year (and would have made $4.5M if not for the buyout). Thanks for clearing that up.

by deacs on Dec 3, 2010 9:27 AM MST up reply actions  

No prob.

I’m still not sure how comfortable I am with Jose Lopez taking up a third of the $9 million or so we had left this offseason, but its better than him taking up half of it!

by Shoemaker on Dec 3, 2010 9:29 AM MST up reply actions  

I discussed Lopez' arbitration eligibility up in the article.

But you guys got it right. Lopez, much like Corpas’ old contract, had an option year before being able to declare free agency. Seattle bought out the option, but because Lopez couldn’t leave, he was still under their control through arb.

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by Greg Stanwood on Dec 3, 2010 11:23 AM MST up reply actions  

So I was reading the DP comments...

why one does that oneself I don’t know.

Seems to have a positive reaction to the trade, but seriously, whats with the Herrera love? Everyone over there thinks Herrera is some sort of stud prospect and the answer to everything 2b. Its frustrating.

Clint Barmes is not a good hitter.

Free Chris Nelson.... again.

by wolf213 on Dec 3, 2010 9:18 AM MST reply actions  

And they hate Chris Iannetta.

Maybe its just the Tracy family posting over there.

by Shoemaker on Dec 3, 2010 9:21 AM MST up reply actions  

I haven't seen many here that do....

Clint Barmes is not a good hitter.

Free Chris Nelson.... again.

by wolf213 on Dec 3, 2010 9:29 AM MST up reply actions  

I like Herrera a lot. I don't love him

but the kid gets on base.

Strikeouts are boring - besides that, they're fascist. Throw some more groundballs. Its more democratic. - Crash Davis

by DAWNMARIE01 on Dec 3, 2010 9:41 AM MST up reply actions  

I like him as a situational hitter

He bunts, get productive outs, puts the ball in play. He has great defense to boot. I personally like this guy as a utility player

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by Colsportsfan on Dec 3, 2010 12:24 PM MST up reply actions  

Funny, because I read the comments over here and wonder what’s the deal with all the Herrera hate.

I like stats as much as the next guy. Honestly, I do. I read Counting Rocks. I get the Baseball Prospectus annual every year. I understand most if not all of the metrics that the writers here use and I respect them as ways to evaluate players. With that said, when I watch Jonny Herrera, I feel like I’m watching a winning baseball player. I like how he works the count, makes contact, is willing to go the other way with a pitch. I like that he runs fairly well. I think he’s pretty solid defensively. Truthfully, he reminds me a lot of Jamey Carroll, another guy I liked a lot when he was in Denver.

So he’s never going to post an OPS north of 700 unless he hits .350 one year. I’ll take the slash line he gave the Rox last year in a full season in the two-hole and I think it’d make the lineup better. I’ll grant that it’s no sure bet – Andrew Martin should be here with Herrera’s MLE’s from AAA any minute now – but I really didn’t feel like Herrera was over his head last year, and hell, maybe the opportunity to make a mark at the big league level brought out the best in him.

I know, that’s all ‘feel’ and ‘the eye test’ and ‘gut’ and stuff you can’t quantify, and there are probably about 25-30 guys in the league I’d rather have at second base on a daily basis. But damn it, Jonny Herrera’s a good little ballplayer and you won’t sway me on that.

"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton

by Franchise26 on Dec 3, 2010 9:30 AM MST up reply actions   1 recs

Good points. At the plate,

I consider Herrera the anti-Barmes. Both have marginal MLB hitting ability, but Herrera maximizes his opportunity for a quality at-bat by using the whole field, covering the plate well, and having a good command of the strike zone. Barmes, on the other hand, hits a few bombs but also ends up being an empty-at-bat factory.

As for Tracy’s tendency to go with a hot hand instead of the guy with more upside? That might have something to do with a desire to, you know, win games and not get fired.

by Rockpile Interloper on Dec 3, 2010 9:43 AM MST up reply actions  

IAWTC

Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Still hates Tulo, but is quickly losing momentum.
Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
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by Muzia on Dec 3, 2010 9:47 AM MST up reply actions  

I gave you a rec

Because that is exactly my thoughts. I don’t hate him, in fact, I think he is an awesome backup. but he is just a backup.

by mkorpal on Dec 3, 2010 9:53 AM MST up reply actions  

IAWTC

So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?

Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?

by Mondogarage on Dec 3, 2010 10:10 AM MST up reply actions  

IAWTC

Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
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by SDcat09 on Dec 3, 2010 10:32 AM MST up reply actions  

+1

two Icehouse 24 oz beers = $3.20 two "fancy" Bud Light 24 oz beers = $5.00

NOW who comes out on top?

by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 3, 2010 2:05 PM MST up reply actions  

It's a sort of visual bias you have to expect.

Fans that comment at the DP are going to be less familiar with the work of players outside of Coors Field, so Herrera’s quality play with the Rockies this past summer, particularly at home, carries all the weight.

That said, I think a lot of Purple Row users probably tend to take an opposite extreme, and discount visual cues from players too much in an attempt to remain objective. Herrera’s always been well liked by scouts, typically at minor league levels at ages you’d associate with a future regular MLB player until stagnating at AAA the past couple of years, he’s just never put up offensive numbers that support that view.

I think some of us here are probably writing him off too much in the infield mix for next season. I’m not expecting him to be above average offensively, likely he’ll be the same below average player at the plate that he’s always been, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s enough of a defensive plus to more than make up for it.

by Rox Girl on Dec 3, 2010 9:31 AM MST up reply actions   1 recs

I also like Herrera

I know I will get blasted but yes he passes the eye test. Works the count, moves runners over, and does the little things. I don’t think he should start at 2B because his flaws probably get exposed over a long season but he is an ideal “super sub” kind of player. Certainly a better 25th man than Canthitanilla was a couple of years ago.

My guess is Lopez wins or is given the 2B job and Nelson really does not get a fair shake in spring training.

by RoxandRoll on Dec 3, 2010 9:37 AM MST up reply actions  

I agree with you that Herrera would make an excellent utility guy.

He’s good defensively, can play any position but first, and has a different skill set from the rest of the lineup. I have absolutely no problem with him being on the roster as a backup infielder, and I think he could be a big help in that role.

I just worry that Tracy/the staff views Herrera as starting material, when, as you stated, I think he’d get exposed as the season wore on. Which is sort of why I’m hoping Nelson grabs the starting spot from the get go and forces Tracy’s hand.

by Shoemaker on Dec 3, 2010 9:42 AM MST up reply actions  

Certainly better than EY2

Who really is a one trick pony. Still they thought they could win with him playing 2B down the stretch.

by RoxandRoll on Dec 3, 2010 9:51 AM MST up reply actions  

I'm ambivalent about this deal.

It all depends on what else happens between now and opening day. Hopefully there is one more move in the Rocks.

by idomatta on Dec 3, 2010 9:33 AM MST reply actions  

According to Heyman

Martin declined an offer from the Dodgers for a $4M base plus around $2M in incentives.

Seems unlikely we would offer even remotely that much cash. No chance of him coming here

Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Still hates Tulo, but is quickly losing momentum.
Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver

by Muzia on Dec 3, 2010 9:34 AM MST reply actions  

Great

Let some other team overpay for him.

by mkorpal on Dec 3, 2010 9:35 AM MST up reply actions  

Would you take Martin over Olivo

if Martin took a discount?

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2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
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by SDcat09 on Dec 3, 2010 10:32 AM MST up reply actions  

Me, I don't know

I don’t think Martin will ever return to be an offensive threat. But he still seems to be able to get on base some.

by mkorpal on Dec 3, 2010 10:35 AM MST up reply actions  

completely agree

Olivo doesn’t really hold a candle next to a healthy and not overworked Martin.

by RockiesRick! on Dec 3, 2010 10:36 AM MST up reply actions  

Probably not now

Dodgers signed Barajas

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 3, 2010 11:27 AM MST up reply actions  

particularly now that we have lopez

Considering the lopez deal, I think there is almost no chance of him coming here either. Lopez already covers the backup 3B in case of injury (Herrera, Nelson or EY2 at 2B). That means that Martins value to us would be greatly diminished.

by RockiesRick! on Dec 3, 2010 9:54 AM MST up reply actions  

He's just

not liking the atmosphere in LA. Maybe he will come here and like it more?

With those who don't give a damn about baseball, I can only sympathize. I do not resent them. I am even willing to concede that many of them are physically clean, good to their mothers and in favor of world peace. But while the game is on, I can't think of anything to say to them. ~Art Hill
JFK

by jrockies on Dec 3, 2010 12:14 PM MST up reply actions  

Lopez >>>>>> Herrera

Sorry, but Herrera is not the equal of Lopez, not that Lopez is anything other than an averagish 2nd base option. Herrera had great BABIP luck for the Rockies early on. Look at his Colorado Springs numbers, and that is much more likely to be his level with overexposure as a Rockies starter.

Lopez, on the other hand, is a young veteran who should benefit from a change of scenery and venue. He reminds me of Charlie Hayes in the early days of the franchise, an out-of-shape flyball hitter. Hayes, in 1993, hit .305 with 25 homers for us. Lopez can do the same while starting at 2nd base instead of 3rd and preventing us from sucking at that position again.

by GoRoxGo on Dec 3, 2010 9:43 AM MST reply actions  

My rankings for 2B

Nelson > EYJ ? Lopez > Herrera.

Not sure who I would rank 2nd or 3rd.

by mkorpal on Dec 3, 2010 9:48 AM MST up reply actions  

EY?

Better than Herrera – no way. Stats don’t tell you anything when comparing the 2. If his name wasn’t Eric Young, he probably would have washed out a couple of years ago. I don’t think of Herrera as an everday 2B but he is certainly a more useful utility guy than EY as the pitchers don’t hold their breath every time a ball is hit his way.

by RoxandRoll on Dec 3, 2010 9:53 AM MST up reply actions  

My thought process here

Is that 1. EY has a plus tool, speed. Herrera has no plus tool (and no, clutch and really good guy are not tools)

2. EY has had success at all levels in the minors. Herrera has never been good, even in the minors.

by mkorpal on Dec 3, 2010 9:56 AM MST up reply actions  

After watching 4000 games

or so over the course of the last 35 years, it just takes simple observational skills to see that 1. EY looked completely overmatched by major league pitching. 2. He is scary shaky defensively. 3. His baserunning instincts are not good (which is very surprising considering his pedigree) 4. He whiffs way too much for a singles hitting speed guy. Herrera may not have great stats but it is easy to see that 1. He catches what he gets to. 2. He makes decent contact. 3. He can lay down a bunt. 4. He can advance a baserunner.

I am not advocating Hererra as an everyday player but he is certainly more useful than Young as a utility player.

by RoxandRoll on Dec 3, 2010 10:04 AM MST up reply actions   1 recs

Well

Herrera may still be useful as a utility player, but his ceiling is only that, utility player. Young still has a ceiling much higher as a starter.

Also, I hate to say it, but I hate it when people come in and tell me they have seen so many games so their opinion matters most.

by mkorpal on Dec 3, 2010 10:07 AM MST up reply actions  

I am not saying my opinion means most

but there is such a thing as the eye test and some on the board completely disregard it. If you think you are going to have a pennant winning caliber team with EY playing 130 games at 2B then you either are looking at the world through rose colored glasses or have fallen too in love with some statistic that doesn’t truly measure him.

by RoxandRoll on Dec 3, 2010 10:10 AM MST up reply actions  

Sorry

it just came off that way. When people start telling me how many games they have seen, I feel like it is a bit arrogant. Sorry if I’m accusing you of something you are not intending.

Anyway, I can tell you that if I had to chose between 130 games of EY or 130 games of Herrera, I would chose EY. Thats why I would rank EY over Herrera.

by mkorpal on Dec 3, 2010 10:13 AM MST up reply actions  

Lets just hope it doesn't come to that

Neither should be playing 2B everyday. We have to assume DOD knows what he is doing and that Lopez will be the guy. It seems that he likes him a lot. I don’t think Nelson is going to get a real shot.

I would like to see Hererra be the 25th man though.

by RoxandRoll on Dec 3, 2010 10:15 AM MST up reply actions  

It's not really up to Dan though

It’s Jim’s call who starts and who sits. All Dan does is give him the tools. In that case, I fear that Nelson may not get a chance.

by mkorpal on Dec 3, 2010 10:19 AM MST up reply actions  

It almost seems they are scared to death to give Nelson an honest chance...

 What on earth do they see holding him back?

"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana

by Oldfoagie on Dec 3, 2010 10:22 AM MST up reply actions  

I don't know

The only real big knock on Nelson is his health. But since he is healthy now, I would hope the club would act fast and get him as much playing time as possible.

by mkorpal on Dec 3, 2010 10:24 AM MST up reply actions  

Baker

Nelson to me is the next Baker – a guy who really didn’t get a fair shake to play. I know Baker got hurt a bit but when he got stretches to play everyday he was pretty good. For whatever reason, Nelson was not given a shot in September while we had to watch EY every day.

by RoxandRoll on Dec 3, 2010 10:23 AM MST up reply actions  

I am not comparing the 2 as players

merely their situations and the way the organization perceived them as everyday players. When Baker played everyday (end of 06) (June of 08) he really produced. But in 08 when Barmes came off the DL, Baker for some unknown reason went back to the bench.

by RoxandRoll on Dec 3, 2010 10:30 AM MST up reply actions  

I've said this before: Even if Herrera did not exist; I don't think EY2 is going to make it.

"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana

by Oldfoagie on Dec 3, 2010 10:18 AM MST up reply actions  

I agree with this

His defense is not consistent enough, and yes, speed kills and can be blinding, but you can’t steal 1st base.

I’m frustrated that Nelson hasn’t gotten a fair shot, but he’s not a sure thing, either. But I do think he is an overall better player than EY2.

So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?

Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?

by Mondogarage on Dec 3, 2010 10:26 AM MST up reply actions  

problem is that the eye test doesn't seem to be consistent with everybody who uses it

certain people’s eye tests say different things, and I could point you to observers who have seen as many games as you and like EY more than Herrera.

The real point we should all be taking away from this is that the Rockies have several substandard options. Either somebody needs to separate themselves on the field and in the stat book, or we shouldn’t get attached to any of them.

by Rox Girl on Dec 3, 2010 10:15 AM MST up reply actions  

That is true...

 Some of us interpet stats differently too!

"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana

by Oldfoagie on Dec 3, 2010 10:19 AM MST up reply actions  

In what way?

Not saying it can’t be done, but it’s really more about placing emphasis on some stats than others. The stats themselves are less arbitrary or ambiguous than the eye test.

by deacs on Dec 3, 2010 10:21 AM MST up reply actions  

I was taught to read between the lines before the new stats and even staisticians will tell you numbers can be made fungible.

 I don’t see black and white with numbers and also use numbers to back or disprove what I see. If you don’t believe me about numbers; try reading the Congressional budget sometimes. You can take almost any stat and deconstruct it.

 What I see in Lopez and object to is another hitter swing for the fences that will come up empty 4/5ths of the time. We already have that in Stewart and Ianetta. I also see a guy with an aversion toward leverage who hits better with no one on base or runners on first. I don’t think that’s what the Rox need at all no matter his power,

"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana

by Oldfoagie on Dec 3, 2010 10:37 AM MST up reply actions  

The congressional budget isn't really a stat

There are percentages of the budget that demonstrate the ways in which money is allocated; those are stats. But the allocations themselves, the money that gets spent on things, are raw data; they are similar to hits, runs, walks, HBPs, etc.

You can make a stat say a particular thing based on the formula, and you can selectively choose stats to illustrate your argument, but they are black and white because you can know and challenge their formula. You can’t know the formula of someone’s eye test, and challenging it with a differing opinion is just an argument of perceptions.

That’s why I think it’s more enjoyable, and fruitful, to debate players by the numbers.

by deacs on Dec 3, 2010 10:49 AM MST up reply actions  

The policy that is used to justify those allocations and the selection of which stats to use to justify those allocations are the same argument.

 Which is why some people think politics are fun and others think hot stove baseball is boring :-P

"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana

by Oldfoagie on Dec 3, 2010 10:55 AM MST up reply actions  

EY2's minor league numbers were superior to Herrera's

Just look at the AAA numbers totaled below their hitting numbers: Herrera, EY2.

by deacs on Dec 3, 2010 9:57 AM MST up reply actions  

I am fairly high on Nelson, but...

I think Nelson will probably get snubbed because of the acquisition of Lopez, but he should be getting somewhere in the neighborhood of 200 ABs filling in for 2B and PH appearances in a worst case scenario for him. That’s not terrible considering it will be his first real real with the big club.

by RockiesRick! on Dec 3, 2010 9:56 AM MST up reply actions  

In any case

what better candidates to be forced to compete for the spot. I like this trade if for no other reason than giving both players the feeling that the job isn’t theirs. They will have to have to show up in good baseball condition and earn it. We assume the spot was Nelson’s and he probably did too. Now he will have to out play Lopez to get it.

by BringItHome on Dec 3, 2010 10:10 AM MST up reply actions  

Well the good news about having all these 2B is that you would think one of them has to put together a pretty good season right?

While these options are far from ideal, I would think the odds of one of them having a breakout season or a career year are pretty decent. We have strength in numbers at this position.

120 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 3, 2010 10:06 AM MST up reply actions  

I'd maybe take that down to Lopez >> Herrera

Herrera is a fine utility player for the team.

by deacs on Dec 3, 2010 9:54 AM MST up reply actions  

I agree with you

I think the world is about to end

by RoxandRoll on Dec 3, 2010 9:57 AM MST up reply actions  

LoL Fangraphs

Apparently Herrera’s 311 wOBA proves he is major league ready? Link

by mkorpal on Dec 3, 2010 9:44 AM MST reply actions  

Jack Moore, every Rockies fan's favorite

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 3, 2010 10:00 AM MST via mobile up reply actions  

Not bashing Herrera, but this is a lazy assertion by Moore.

I doubt that he looked at Herrera’s minor league numbers.

by deacs on Dec 3, 2010 10:04 AM MST up reply actions  

I realize it isnt a perfect comparison because he never walks

but Lopez seems similar in a lot of ways to Kelly Johnson last year. Johnson has always been able to walk, so his OBP and consequently his OPS are higher, but other than that both are/were potential power bats coming off a bad BABIP year. Looking back, moving to a great hitters park (albeit from an above average hitters park) and regressing to his mean was a great move for Johnson and the D-Backs, just as this move could be for the Rox. Worst case, he is a cheaper and younger Barmes with less Ks but slightly worse D.

Science! It means whatever you want it to!

by realmenwearpurple on Dec 3, 2010 10:07 AM MST reply actions  

Peralta

NOOOOOOOO. Maine, no also.

by mkorpal on Dec 3, 2010 10:36 AM MST up reply actions  

Jhonny Peralta....YEP

Joel Peralta…..not so much

Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Dec 3, 2010 10:43 AM MST up reply actions  

Seems Peralta did a "Matt Belisle"

Suddenly developed elite strikeout stuff and great command.

I would definitely go for him.

Rocktober is not a time of year, it is a religion.

by hjrrockies on Dec 3, 2010 12:18 PM MST up reply actions  

He had a nasty splitter with us for a brief time

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 3, 2010 12:20 PM MST up reply actions  

I kind of loved the Joel Peralta era,

where he was basically our setup man for a stretch in 2009. I think that was the same stretch where we had that 11 game win streak.

Every single time he’d pitch I’d sit there and wonder “How is this working? Joel Peralta is our setup man!”

by Shoemaker on Dec 3, 2010 12:22 PM MST up reply actions  

Yes, it was during that time.

Then he collapsed.

PROJECT LIBRA: Depth / Transactions
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates

by Greg Stanwood on Dec 3, 2010 12:31 PM MST up reply actions  

Um, I read on a Dodgers blog (not TBLA)

they may have some interest in Brad Hawpe……

I have no words….I can’t even…what? That’s crazy talk

Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Dec 3, 2010 10:58 AM MST reply actions  

FIND YOUR HAPPY PLACE FIND YOUR HAPPY PLACE FIND YOUR HAPPY PLACE...

"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana

by Oldfoagie on Dec 3, 2010 11:00 AM MST up reply actions  

As much as this saddens me...

….if everyone here really thought Brad was no longer good enough to play for us, don’t you want him manning right field in Chavez?

I’ll still be wearing my #11 next year.

So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?

Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?

by Mondogarage on Dec 3, 2010 11:06 AM MST up reply actions  

Well he won't be manning RF unless someone offs Ethier

Or they move either to CF or LF. I never thought he wasn’t good enough to play for us anymore.

I want him to be successful again, but if it were the Dodgers, only thing worse would be the Giants…

Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Dec 3, 2010 11:08 AM MST up reply actions  

Oooh! Oooh!!

I want them to put Brad in CF!! Especially when they come to Coors….

We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!

Bazinga!!

SD Cat 09 is still awesome

by Junction Rox on Dec 3, 2010 11:15 AM MST up reply actions  

Ha....

Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Dec 3, 2010 11:18 AM MST up reply actions  

Well, couldn't Ethier move to left and Hawpe to right?

Or they could give Hawpe a shot a first base.

Ugh, Brad playing in LA next year would make me really sad.

by Shoemaker on Dec 3, 2010 11:18 AM MST up reply actions  

Well, I just attribute this rumor to some idiotic speculation

on the Dodgers forum….(on the official Dodgers page)

I just refuse to believe it could be true….

Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Dec 3, 2010 11:19 AM MST up reply actions  

I don't wanna root against Brad.

I’d rather not have to hate him.

But if he’s a Dodger…..

by Shoemaker on Dec 3, 2010 11:22 AM MST up reply actions  

That's what I meant. Move Ethier to CF or LF and Hawpe to right..

oh…this is just too much…

Why did I look to see if there was any news about him today:(? ….

Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Dec 3, 2010 11:20 AM MST up reply actions  

Find your happy place...

 Before you have stroke!

"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana

by Oldfoagie on Dec 3, 2010 11:22 AM MST up reply actions  

Sorry SDcat

120 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 3, 2010 11:24 AM MST up reply actions  

Why couldn't Ethier just move to Romania and make us all happy

So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?

Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?

by Mondogarage on Dec 3, 2010 11:41 AM MST up reply actions  

What about him beating out loney at 1b?

"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana

by Oldfoagie on Dec 3, 2010 11:19 AM MST up reply actions  

this is an excellent suggestion

Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Still hates Tulo, but is quickly losing momentum.
Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver

by Muzia on Dec 3, 2010 11:19 AM MST up reply actions  

And one in which the Rox may learn to regret

So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?

Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?

by Mondogarage on Dec 3, 2010 11:41 AM MST up reply actions  

Damn

I hate this but it makes sense. Hawpe has been a Dodger killer his entire career. I can see why they would be interested.

120 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 3, 2010 11:22 AM MST up reply actions  

Its like us and Scott Hairston.

I’d consider signing him just so he doesn’t destroy us all year.

by Shoemaker on Dec 3, 2010 11:24 AM MST up reply actions  

From Jon Morosi
Key piece of info in #Mariners-#Rockies trade: Jose Lopez already signed a $3.6M deal for 2011. That’s about what Barmes would have made.

Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Still hates Tulo, but is quickly losing momentum.
Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver

by Muzia on Dec 3, 2010 11:26 AM MST reply actions  

Good find. I'll update the post.

PROJECT LIBRA: Depth / Transactions
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates

by Greg Stanwood on Dec 3, 2010 11:28 AM MST up reply actions  

3.6 million?! I was hoping for like a million less.

Well my opinion of this deal just went down a bit. We don’t have too much money left-can we even afford Willingham now?

by Shoemaker on Dec 3, 2010 11:28 AM MST up reply actions  

Yeah, that's a stinker.

Might as well really have found out whether there was a market for him after the non-tender.

by deacs on Dec 3, 2010 11:29 AM MST up reply actions  

So in other words we replace Barmes with a younger Barmes.

"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana

by Oldfoagie on Dec 3, 2010 11:28 AM MST up reply actions  

with more offensive upside and a (much) lesser glove

Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Still hates Tulo, but is quickly losing momentum.
Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver

by Muzia on Dec 3, 2010 11:29 AM MST up reply actions  

Still not convinced that's so at the plate.

"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana

by Oldfoagie on Dec 3, 2010 11:31 AM MST up reply actions  

nor am I, but at least Lopez has done it before

Barmes was who he was

Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Still hates Tulo, but is quickly losing momentum.
Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver

by Muzia on Dec 3, 2010 11:34 AM MST up reply actions  

He's a better offensive threat than Barmes

And he’s not as terrible as people seem to think at 2B. Barmes was better, but he was really a SS playing off position.

by RockiesRick! on Dec 3, 2010 11:29 AM MST up reply actions  

Have there been a lot of comps between the Pedroia contract in 2008 and Tulo's extension?

Only Tulo’s first contract and Pedroia’s 2008 deal are comparable. This paragraph makes me want to punch my monitor:

On this date two years ago, the Red Sox signed then-reigning AL MVP Dustin Pedroia to a six-year contract worth $40.5MM. The deal bought out all of his arbitration eligible years plus two free agent years with a club option for a third. Given the contract just signed by another middle infielder at a similar age (Troy Tulowitzki), it sure looks like Boston saved themselves a boatload of money with Pedroia’s deal.

STFU, Mike Axisa (myopic Yankees fan).

by deacs on Dec 3, 2010 11:27 AM MST reply actions  

Because contracts are signed on the basis of one season?

This is stupid. In years prior to the season that spurred the contract
Pedroia career WAR: 3.0
Tulo career WAR: 11.4

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 3, 2010 11:31 AM MST up reply actions  

He plays for Boston, so his 3.0 WAR is worth the attention of a 12.0 WAR player.

PROJECT LIBRA: Depth / Transactions
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates

by Greg Stanwood on Dec 3, 2010 11:33 AM MST up reply actions  

It's not wrong to compare the initial Tulo extension and the Pedroia 2008 extension, right?

That would make sense. But this this new extension is more akin to what Pedroia would after his first contract would expire. All the Rockies did was sign the second deal sooner than later.

by deacs on Dec 3, 2010 11:36 AM MST up reply actions  

It's also shortsighted because most of Pedroia's contract is buying out his arb years

Tulo’s extension is paying out what would have free agents years and therefore have to be much more expensive. It’s so unfair to the Rockies to compare the Tulo contract to the Pedroia contract and say they saved a boatload of money.

As deacs said, a more reasonable comparison to Pedoia’s contract would be the contract Tulo signed after his rookie season. Axisa should take a look at that contract and compare those instead.

120 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 3, 2010 11:40 AM MST up reply actions  

what would have **been** free agent years

also "say the Red Sox saved a boatload of money

120 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 3, 2010 11:42 AM MST up reply actions  

He looks like Mora.

And for Mora’s replacement, I find that kind of funny.

I'm GoRockies!! everybody :P

by CentralCaliRox on Dec 3, 2010 11:33 AM MST reply actions  

His smile in that picture alone is one more smile than Melvin Mora has ever had.

PROJECT LIBRA: Depth / Transactions
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates

by Greg Stanwood on Dec 3, 2010 11:34 AM MST up reply actions  

Another comp to Barmes

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 3, 2010 11:34 AM MST reply actions  

3 of his 10 home runs last year came on the same day.

PROJECT LIBRA: Depth / Transactions
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates

by Greg Stanwood on Dec 3, 2010 11:36 AM MST up reply actions  

Well, it'd be similarly surprising.

PROJECT LIBRA: Depth / Transactions
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates

by Greg Stanwood on Dec 3, 2010 11:39 AM MST up reply actions  

More empty days

"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana

by Oldfoagie on Dec 3, 2010 11:38 AM MST up reply actions  

this guy really is an out-of-shape, Venezuelan Barmes

Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Still hates Tulo, but is quickly losing momentum.
Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver

by Muzia on Dec 3, 2010 11:39 AM MST up reply actions  

I am reminded of O'Tool's observation of Murphy's Law...

Murphy was a bleeding optimist

"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana

by Oldfoagie on Dec 3, 2010 11:41 AM MST up reply actions  

Man, I must read the Denver Post comments too much,

because I totally thought for a minute that “O’Tool” was a dig at O’Dowd.

by Shoemaker on Dec 3, 2010 11:44 AM MST up reply actions  

No; My rose tinted glasses are totaly absent today...

 Yellow ones are on due to the glare of reality.

"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana

by Oldfoagie on Dec 3, 2010 11:47 AM MST up reply actions  

Only 4 of those 10 HRs were long enough to make it out of Coors Field..

Most of them were less than the 375’ LF fence. One was 376, but it was Left Center.

@charliedrysdale

by Charlie77 on Dec 3, 2010 2:11 PM MST up reply actions  

Granted, they may have acted different in Rocky Mountain Air

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 3, 2010 2:24 PM MST up reply actions  

Air in Safeco (~ sealevel) is much more dense than that at Coors

I wouldn’t be surprised if they carried out still.

Science! It means whatever you want it to!

by realmenwearpurple on Dec 3, 2010 2:24 PM MST up reply actions  

Perhaps, but there's also less ozone at altitude..

meaning the ball will be bombarded by more ultraviolet radiation.

@charliedrysdale

by Charlie77 on Dec 3, 2010 2:37 PM MST up reply actions  

Yes, but left field faces north at Safeco

so batted balls should be pulled further by Canada sucking

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 3, 2010 2:39 PM MST up reply actions  

wow

well done sir

Neil Pert is upset tho

The Big Purple Machine will make a believer outta you!

by El Paso Jeff on Dec 3, 2010 2:46 PM MST up reply actions  

Ok, so now, according to my calculations

have about 6 million to spend on another catcher, another outfielder, and possibly another relief pitcher. They could fill all three with internal candidates, leaving 4 million to work with, but I have a feeling they don’t want to go into next season with that much of a reduced payroll (bad PR).

This is assuming an 84 million dollar payroll.

by mkorpal on Dec 3, 2010 11:55 AM MST reply actions  

How sure are we of the $84M?

I thought I had heard up to $86M at some point.

Bleed purple

by Rawktober on Dec 3, 2010 11:57 AM MST up reply actions  

still think you're aiming low on payroll.

They’ve been making it more clear the last few weeks that they’re playing with an $86 million figure.

by Rox Girl on Dec 3, 2010 11:57 AM MST up reply actions  

I don't think that was clear

In the very least, the 84 million dollar payroll was pretty clear a month ago, when everyone said there would be no raise ( or perhaps a modest drop) in payroll. Since they haven’t really spent all that much so far (for this season, anyway), and the only evidence I have heard otherwise is pure speculation, I’m still inclined to believe there will be no significant increase this year. Thus, 84 million seems about right.

Of course, I hope I’m surprised.

by mkorpal on Dec 3, 2010 12:02 PM MST up reply actions  

I think the Tulo extension is going to give them more money to play with

It doesn’t add to the payroll at all for the next three years but should absolutely give them more money to spend.

120 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 3, 2010 12:04 PM MST up reply actions  

It doesn't change anything at all for the enxt three years

After that, yes, it may indicate a change in spending. But for now, it has zero influence. In fact, I can see it actually pushing the payroll down a bit so that his later salary can be afforded.

by mkorpal on Dec 3, 2010 12:06 PM MST up reply actions  

Yeah

But I’m talking about 2011 opening day payroll. Tulo doesn’t have any affect on that.

by mkorpal on Dec 3, 2010 12:09 PM MST up reply actions  

What you're referring to a month ago

was a general ballpark estimate put forward by O’Dowd, who was talking about no raise for 2011 and said around $85 million. It was never specific. It’s actually become more specific as we’ve moved along, the first case of the $86 million number originally came up in connection with the possibility of the Justin Upton trade from Dick Monfort, but since then they haven’t veered from that figure and it’s seeming more like that was what they thought the payroll could go up to even without Upton. The Lopez trade, the sincere interest in Berkman, all of their moves still suggest that $86 million is what they’re playing with rather than $84 million, your point above, in fact, makes it pretty obvious.

by Rox Girl on Dec 3, 2010 12:13 PM MST up reply actions  

I'm pretty sure

That they said, specifically, that there would be no increase in payroll, and that there might be a slight decrease. I can’t seem to find the article, but I remember it being a lot more concrete.

by mkorpal on Dec 3, 2010 12:19 PM MST up reply actions  

By specific, I mean an actual number

and I don’t believe that there ever was one that came from somebody in the F.O. and not a reporter looking up last year’s figures until the $86 million number Monfort put out. They would say “no increase” but that’s just smart way to manage fan expectations if they know it’s going to wind up in the same ballpark, and $84 million to $86 million clearly fits that bill.

by Rox Girl on Dec 3, 2010 12:27 PM MST up reply actions  

Well, maybe I was wrong

I can’t seem to find anything, but I don’t remember the Monforts putting out 86 either.

by mkorpal on Dec 3, 2010 12:31 PM MST up reply actions  

Monfort seems to mention it to a reporter for a second time in this article:

The Rockies are built on a draft-and-develop philosophy, a template that has remained in place since the 2003 season. A modest $86 million payroll — a figure that draws criticism — is a byproduct. But the Rockies haven’t raised ticket prices in years and have invested millions in long-term contracts for Helton, Aaron Cook, Tulowitzki, Jimenez and Huston Street.

The first was in connection with Upton. It’s not said specifically that Monfort said it, but I don’t know where Renck gets that number otherwise.

by Rox Girl on Dec 3, 2010 12:36 PM MST up reply actions  

I figured out where I saw those numbers

For some reason, Jeff quoted Dan O’Dowd as saying payroll was projected to be between 80 and 83 million when he wrote his pre-free agency state of the Rockies article. But, I don’t see any links to said quote, so who knows.

At around the same time, Dan stated that it was going to be around 85 million.

by mkorpal on Dec 3, 2010 12:54 PM MST up reply actions  

Yeah, O'Dowd did say that in late October, I swear.

Almost immediately after that he changed his tune to say $85 million, which is what my projections have been working off of.

The writer formerly known as Jabberwocky
READ and LEARN about the business of baseball at Purple Row Academy
Eschew Obfuscation!

by Jeff Aberle on Dec 3, 2010 8:41 PM MST up reply actions  

This is what I read out of that quote..
the Rockies haven’t raised ticket prices in years and have invested millions in long-term contracts for Helton, Aaron Cook, Tulowitzki, Jimenez and Huston Street.

I imagine there will be an announcement soon of ticket prices going up.

@charliedrysdale

by Charlie77 on Dec 3, 2010 2:25 PM MST up reply actions  

I was expecting one this off season,

it looks like fans get a break for now, though, at least for season tickets. It seems the ownership’s sensitive to single ticket purchasers too, though. I’m still thinking that it’s easily a safe bet that if the team is going to be signing all three superstars and pushing that $100 million payroll I was talking about yesterday that we will see a meaningful bump in ticket prices by the end of that 2014 season.

by Rox Girl on Dec 3, 2010 2:29 PM MST up reply actions  

It's probably too late for this season..

but I think 2012 there will definitely be a bump in prices. Or we’ll be paying $15 for tornadoughs.

@charliedrysdale

by Charlie77 on Dec 3, 2010 2:38 PM MST up reply actions  

I've never

been to Coors for a game.

"No Mission Too Difficult, No Sacrifice Too Great—Duty First" - 1st Infantry Division Motto

SB Nation Denver - The regional hub for Denver sports!
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by Russ Oates on Dec 3, 2010 2:48 PM MST up reply actions  

120 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 3, 2010 2:51 PM MST up reply actions  

Have you?

Also, I’ve yet to learn what a tornadough is, so I will assume it is some kind of friend dough thing and that would be awesome.

by deacs on Dec 3, 2010 2:53 PM MST up reply actions  

they have parmesan and cinnamon and I think cheese

they are fantastic.

Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Still hates Tulo, but is quickly losing momentum.
Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver

by Muzia on Dec 3, 2010 2:54 PM MST up reply actions  

The parm are really messy though

Total carb load. Yummy.

Not as good as blowing calories on monster chicken nachos.

So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?

Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?

by Mondogarage on Dec 3, 2010 2:58 PM MST up reply actions  

What Mondo says..

They’re delicious. Sorry about the link, I thought you were joking and my sarcasm detector was going off.

@charliedrysdale

by Charlie77 on Dec 3, 2010 3:28 PM MST up reply actions  

Well, the avg ticket price here is like the 3rd or 4th lowest in the majors

Rather, the Rox were determined to be one of the best game-attending values in MLB (which probably includes parking/concessions/etc)

Still, ticket prices here are more than fair, vis-a-vis MLB generally, and all other major professional sports.

So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?

Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?

by Mondogarage on Dec 3, 2010 2:39 PM MST up reply actions  

Not only that

they’ve had the cheapest everyday single game tickets each year Coors has existed (Rockpile)

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 3, 2010 2:40 PM MST up reply actions  

To be fair, the top row of the RP is 600 feet from home plate ;-)

So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?

Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?

by Mondogarage on Dec 3, 2010 2:49 PM MST up reply actions  

I still like the seats

Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Still hates Tulo, but is quickly losing momentum.
Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver

by Muzia on Dec 3, 2010 2:50 PM MST up reply actions  

I disagree

I mean, it’s a fun place to be at, in a tailgating sorta way, but I place a high premium on the view. But of course, if it were playoffs and the only ticket I could get is RP, I’d obviously want to be there.

Otherwise, I much prefer low to the field, or club level right above the bases.

So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?

Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?

by Mondogarage on Dec 3, 2010 3:01 PM MST up reply actions  

Thats why you sit in the seat for an inning or two

And than move and watch the game from the left field concourse.

by mkorpal on Dec 3, 2010 4:50 PM MST up reply actions  

Oh, I'd end up watching more of it from the concourse behind home plate

I have middle age eyes, LF concours is pretty far, lol

So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?

Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?

by Mondogarage on Dec 3, 2010 4:53 PM MST up reply actions  

Or walk around for an inning or two and take a seat elsewhere

With those who don't give a damn about baseball, I can only sympathize. I do not resent them. I am even willing to concede that many of them are physically clean, good to their mothers and in favor of world peace. But while the game is on, I can't think of anything to say to them. ~Art Hill
JFK

by jrockies on Dec 3, 2010 4:54 PM MST up reply actions  

That works too

The last two games I went to this year, I spent a combined 20 minutes in the seats I bought. But, they all sucked.

by mkorpal on Dec 3, 2010 4:55 PM MST up reply actions  

because you stole that girl's coat

Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Still hates Tulo, but is quickly losing momentum.
Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver

by Muzia on Dec 3, 2010 5:03 PM MST up reply actions  

Apparently.

I’m still not sure what the hell was going on.

by mkorpal on Dec 3, 2010 8:09 PM MST up reply actions  

Or do what I do and watch the entire game from the bullpen railing.

PROJECT LIBRA: Depth / Transactions
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates

by Greg Stanwood on Dec 3, 2010 6:57 PM MST up reply actions  

Thats why we should have signed Dunn though, right?

So even they would have a shot at getting HR balls.

Science! It means whatever you want it to!

by realmenwearpurple on Dec 3, 2010 2:50 PM MST up reply actions  

And it was a damn fine place to watch the NLDS

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 3, 2010 2:53 PM MST up reply actions  

Still decent seats

at least you can see everything rather than being in upper right field where half the field is lost.

With those who don't give a damn about baseball, I can only sympathize. I do not resent them. I am even willing to concede that many of them are physically clean, good to their mothers and in favor of world peace. But while the game is on, I can't think of anything to say to them. ~Art Hill
JFK

by jrockies on Dec 3, 2010 2:57 PM MST up reply actions  

Near back of the Rockpile at Mile High

At least in terms of actually viewing the game.

So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?

Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?

by Mondogarage on Dec 3, 2010 2:59 PM MST up reply actions  

yeah, definitely baseball at Mile High

Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Still hates Tulo, but is quickly losing momentum.
Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver

by Muzia on Dec 3, 2010 3:00 PM MST up reply actions  

upper deck LF at Mile High

It was great, as long as you didn’t want to see anything that happened more than 10 feet behind SS or 3B…

We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!

Bazinga!!

SD Cat 09 is still awesome

by Junction Rox on Dec 3, 2010 3:01 PM MST up reply actions  

I sat here once..

during a lightning storm. It was electric!

@charliedrysdale

by Charlie77 on Dec 3, 2010 3:30 PM MST up reply actions  

Astrodome

indoors, huge, astroturf…nuf said

Bleed purple

by Rawktober on Dec 3, 2010 3:02 PM MST up reply actions  

I was about 8 when I was there

so I don’t remember actually watching the game, only that the Rockies lost.

With those who don't give a damn about baseball, I can only sympathize. I do not resent them. I am even willing to concede that many of them are physically clean, good to their mothers and in favor of world peace. But while the game is on, I can't think of anything to say to them. ~Art Hill
JFK

by jrockies on Dec 3, 2010 3:03 PM MST up reply actions  

Behind a pole at Fenway

Couldn’t see the infield

120 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 3, 2010 3:00 PM MST up reply actions  

Upper Deck

near the rafters, behind a pole in foul territory at Minute Maid (and there aren’t many bad seats there)

With those who don't give a damn about baseball, I can only sympathize. I do not resent them. I am even willing to concede that many of them are physically clean, good to their mothers and in favor of world peace. But while the game is on, I can't think of anything to say to them. ~Art Hill
JFK

by jrockies on Dec 3, 2010 3:01 PM MST up reply actions  

Since she's not here I will answer for Alanna..

Wrigley Stadium behind a giant pole:

@charliedrysdale

by Charlie77 on Dec 3, 2010 3:31 PM MST up reply actions  

Heh

Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908

by TomCat009 on Dec 3, 2010 4:35 PM MST up reply actions  

Ohhh, Alanna

So cheeky and fun, yet so married. Boo.

by deacs on Dec 3, 2010 6:37 PM MST via mobile up reply actions  

she's somehow related to

a guy who works with my dad.

With those who don't give a damn about baseball, I can only sympathize. I do not resent them. I am even willing to concede that many of them are physically clean, good to their mothers and in favor of world peace. But while the game is on, I can't think of anything to say to them. ~Art Hill
JFK

by jrockies on Dec 3, 2010 10:56 PM MST up reply actions  

Behind a big post under the second deck at Fenway

Lost sight of fly balls after they reached about 15 feet of elevation and had a sore neck craning around the post all night.

by Roberbola on Dec 3, 2010 3:34 PM MST up reply actions  

Shea Stadium

Doesnt matter which seat, the place was awful. Though the top of the lower level and behind a 400 lb 7ft tall monster who literally blocked the small range of view that the upper deck didnt block.

Also, upper deck in Olymic Stadium on opening day many years ago was awful too.

Science! It means whatever you want it to!

by realmenwearpurple on Dec 3, 2010 5:27 PM MST up reply actions  

Bleachers at Wrigley

was a bit “late” for a day game, no seats left. ended up standing by the beer stand behind the scoreboard, had to crouch down just to see any of the field…saw maybe 2 innings of the game total. Lots and lots of beer, though. Pretty damn fun anyway.

by Teekalong on Dec 3, 2010 6:00 PM MST up reply actions  

Stuck behind a pillar at Shibe. Yankee, Polo Grounds, Tiger...

 My Mom always wanted to be under a deck incase it rained. The Old Time Stadiums sucked in that respect. Take your pick they all had spots with poor sight lines.

"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana

by Oldfoagie on Dec 4, 2010 4:17 AM MST up reply actions  

A million here; a million there; sooner or later it adds up to real money...

 Wish we could teach ALL politicians that!

"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana

by Oldfoagie on Dec 4, 2010 4:01 AM MST up reply actions  

Regardless

I’m going to go out on a limb and guess that, if the price happens to be $2mil higher than they have “budgeted,” they will find a way to pay up if they feel that they need to.

Rocktober is not a time of year, it is a religion.

by hjrrockies on Dec 3, 2010 12:31 PM MST up reply actions  

Willingham fits

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 3, 2010 12:03 PM MST up reply actions  

Willingham, and potentially something like a bounce-back Martin (but not at his current asking price)

Especially as it at least appears that Napoli really isn’t available at the present time, either.

So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?

Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?

by Mondogarage on Dec 3, 2010 12:04 PM MST up reply actions  

I am all in on a Napoli deal

if we can make it happen. More so than Willingham.

by BringItHome on Dec 3, 2010 12:13 PM MST up reply actions  

They might request Stewart and/or Fowler though

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 3, 2010 12:21 PM MST up reply actions  

They also think Stewart is Brandon Wood v 2.0

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 3, 2010 12:46 PM MST up reply actions  

Yeah but Wood is incapable of hitting MLB pitching

Stewie has had his moments

Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908

by TomCat009 on Dec 3, 2010 12:55 PM MST up reply actions  

I didn't say it was a correct ascertation

It was pretty laughable actually

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 3, 2010 1:43 PM MST up reply actions  

considering we have control of Stewart through 2014

I may actually not want Napoli over Stewart. I am starting to lose faith in him though. Napoli would add 1-2 wins over Stewart and fit very nicely in 2011.

by BringItHome on Dec 3, 2010 12:31 PM MST up reply actions  

Difference is

Money, and the fact that Napoli has been playing at near his ceiling, where Stewart has been playing near his floor.

by mkorpal on Dec 3, 2010 12:33 PM MST up reply actions  

I agree on Napoli's play

but not Stewart’s. Money is the biggest thing which is why I I don’t think I would like the idea after all. I thought Napoli had less experience time.

by BringItHome on Dec 3, 2010 12:36 PM MST up reply actions  

He would take up the entire 6 million

leaving us with 0 bucks to add a reliever and a catcher. He could squeak in if they decide to up the payroll a bit to 85 and go with cheapest options available elsewhere.

by mkorpal on Dec 3, 2010 12:04 PM MST up reply actions  

That's why I responded to RG

It was going on her figure

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 3, 2010 12:06 PM MST up reply actions  

I'd probably rank our priorities, position wise, as follows:

Catcher>Outfielder>Relief pitcher. If only because I feel that McKenry catching 50-60 games wouldn’t be a great idea, while I’d be okay with a Spilly/Smith platoon in RF and I think our bullpen could stand pat as it is now.

But, Bill Geivett said they’re looking to add another bat, which is much more likely to be an outfielder than a catcher based on availability. So I’d say we’re more likely to pick up somebody like Diaz (or Willingham, please!).

How comfortable are people going into this season with McKenry as the backup?

by Shoemaker on Dec 3, 2010 12:01 PM MST up reply actions  

I usually don't get worked up over backup catchers

So, I don’t really know. I think it’s too early to tell if he could back up. He is good enough defensively, and we didn’t see him bat enough to tell offensively.

by mkorpal on Dec 3, 2010 12:08 PM MST up reply actions  

My main concerns with this trade are as follows:

1) I fear Nelson will never be able to get a chance to play everyday for this team (without getting a legitimate shot, that is)

2) I love this move if it means Lopez is a super utility guy, but I doubt that is what he was acquired for (can’t see them paying $3.6 million for a utility player)

3) Going into the off-season, some of the top priorities were: RH bat, 1B/3B/C back-up and 5-hole power hitter. While Lopez certainly provides depth at 2B and 3B and CAN play 1B; I don’t think this solves the back-up 1B, or 5-hole power bat needs. And I know it doesn’t do anything for the C/potential platoon OF needs.

I’ll absolutely give Dan the benefit of the doubt and wait to see what else he has up his sleeve, but I sure hope there are a few more shrewd moves on the way (Berkman?, Glaus?). Then I would be happy . . . so long as the competition for starting 2B in spring training is open and fair.

by blooming rock on Dec 3, 2010 12:00 PM MST reply actions  

As a follow up:

I think this means that something is going to happen with one of: EY2, Nelson, Herrera. I realize they still have options, but they’re bumping up against their ceiling in the organization and will most likely decline in value (if they have any value currently) if they continue to play at AAA. There’s just not enough room for Lopez, EY2, Nelson, Herrera, not to mention other middle infielders at the AA and AAA levels.

Maybe a trade involving EY2, Nelson, Herrera? Doubt Hererra has much trade value, but the other two probably still do.

by blooming rock on Dec 3, 2010 12:05 PM MST up reply actions  

I hadn't really thought about this angle.

Trading for Lopez makes one of the trio expendable. Like you said, any of them could go back to the minor leagues, but I’d be a big fan of using one of them (EY2, preferably) as part of a package to land the bat Geivett says we’re still looking for.

by Shoemaker on Dec 3, 2010 12:07 PM MST up reply actions  

And to that end, EY2 is the most likely

Because speeds kills, and speed blinds.

So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?

Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?

by Mondogarage on Dec 3, 2010 12:08 PM MST up reply actions  

It also could make Stewart expendable.

I’m just putting that out there. He’s likely to be our most valuable trade chip we’re willing to part with, anyway.

by Rox Girl on Dec 3, 2010 12:16 PM MST up reply actions  

I already thought of that, but I am already thought of as a Stewart hater

"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana

by Oldfoagie on Dec 3, 2010 12:18 PM MST up reply actions  

I find this likely only if we were stil after Floyd, which it appears we're not

Stewart wouldn’t get us Willingham, as some joker named Zimmerman would probably beg to differ. And I don’t think anyone’s seriously considering moving Stewart for Napoli.

So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?

Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?

by Mondogarage on Dec 3, 2010 12:18 PM MST up reply actions  

unless there is sombody else they have targeted we don't know about

"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana

by Oldfoagie on Dec 3, 2010 12:20 PM MST up reply actions  

definitely can't rule that out

However, I’m having difficulty coming up with names of players who would both a) fit our specific needs (RH bat, combo of either C/1B or 1B/corner OF), and b) be made available by a trading team, that would actually represent an upgrade.

And DOD won’t pull a surprise deal just for the sake of doing so.

I dunno, maybe Upton, but I really doubt that.

So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?

Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?

by Mondogarage on Dec 3, 2010 12:35 PM MST up reply actions  

The White Sox were supposedly asking for Stewart AND Fowler for Floyd.

Which is basically a “laugh and hang up the phone” type of request on O’Dowd’s part.

by Shoemaker on Dec 3, 2010 12:21 PM MST up reply actions  

We wouldn't pursure Floyd having resigned JDLR, at any rate

But yeah, I’d be LOLing in Kenny W’s general direction at that demand

So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?

Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?

by Mondogarage on Dec 3, 2010 12:33 PM MST up reply actions  

I'm not 100% sure

That may have a lack of faith in Hammel or Cook.

And it would be putting all of our eggs in pitching.

by mkorpal on Dec 3, 2010 12:35 PM MST up reply actions  

Which would be a bad idea.

Considering that pitching wasn’t really the reason we didn’t make the playoffs last season.

by Shoemaker on Dec 3, 2010 12:36 PM MST up reply actions  

And this

Our starting pitching, from an overall team perspective, was outstanding last year, on the whole.

So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?

Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?

by Mondogarage on Dec 3, 2010 12:37 PM MST up reply actions  

And that was with four of our projected five opening day starters spending time on the DL.

I think with healthy seasons from all, a Ubaldo/De La Rosa/Chacin/Cook/Hammel rotation could be extremely formidable.

by Shoemaker on Dec 3, 2010 12:39 PM MST up reply actions  

I took a lot from Cook's last two starts

Once he healed from The Toe.

I mean, let’s face it, they’re probably #4s at best, but they’ll be amongst the better #4s, and clearly better than any #5s, if healthy, so that’s a net plus for us. We don’t need them to be #2’s.

So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?

Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?

by Mondogarage on Dec 3, 2010 12:40 PM MST up reply actions  

Well, I'd certainly take a rotation

that consisted of an Ace (Ubaldo), two #2s (De La Rosa, Chacin), and two #4s.

That’s probably being too optimistic about DLR and Chacin, though.

by Shoemaker on Dec 3, 2010 12:42 PM MST up reply actions  

Hammel

is closer to a #3

With those who don't give a damn about baseball, I can only sympathize. I do not resent them. I am even willing to concede that many of them are physically clean, good to their mothers and in favor of world peace. But while the game is on, I can't think of anything to say to them. ~Art Hill
JFK

by jrockies on Dec 3, 2010 12:43 PM MST up reply actions  

I'd personally agree given his performance with us the past two years,

but given how he ended the season I’m gonna limit my expectations. That “dead arm” quote kind of scared me.

by Shoemaker on Dec 3, 2010 12:44 PM MST up reply actions  

This is what I'm thinking

Otherwise, he’s a lower end #3, imho.

So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?

Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?

by Mondogarage on Dec 3, 2010 12:51 PM MST up reply actions  

A high #4 or a low #3

is still pretty darn good to have as your #5 though, no?

by Shoemaker on Dec 3, 2010 12:52 PM MST up reply actions  

Yes, I do, especially when you have two of them

So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?

Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?

by Mondogarage on Dec 3, 2010 12:56 PM MST up reply actions  

I'm not sure, either, however....

It seems clear they’re holding on to Rogers now, and Paulino is probably considered part of that SP depth plan, so it wouldn’t make sense that DOD would still consider giving up meaningful parts at this point for someone like Floyd - that would signal an actual assumption that Hammel and Cook clearly won’t be good enough, and we haven’t gone there.

Especially as there’s been no real visible effort to trade either one, which there would be if DOD clearly thought they would not be good enough next year.

So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?

Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?

by Mondogarage on Dec 3, 2010 12:37 PM MST up reply actions  

Well, there has been a stated desire by the FO to acquire another bat,

through FA or trade.

I think something could go down during the Winter Meetings, and Rogers is probably our best realistic trade chip at the moment.

by Shoemaker on Dec 3, 2010 12:39 PM MST up reply actions  

This may be the case, but we're not going to trade for Floyd now, on the come that we'll make Rogers available next week

So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?

Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?

by Mondogarage on Dec 3, 2010 12:41 PM MST up reply actions  

Oh, I completely agree that a Floyd trade is out the window at this point.

I thought you were saying that Rogers probably wouldn’t be traded at all, which I’m not sure about yet.

by Shoemaker on Dec 3, 2010 12:43 PM MST up reply actions  

I'm not at all sure about it, either

And frankly, I’d advocate it, since I feel he’s got reasonable trade value that probably exceeds how he’ll actually perform.

And then, if we do trade him, reach out to Francis, or maybe then maybe revisit Floyd (but continue to laugh at Kenny Williams when he demands Stewie and Dex both)

So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?

Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?

by Mondogarage on Dec 3, 2010 12:52 PM MST up reply actions  

Agreed on all counts.

I feel that Rogers would bring us more value as a trade chip right now than he would if we shifted him to the bullpen for the whole year or let him spend another season bouncing back and forth between AAA and the majors as we need him. If either of the latter two scenarios happen, his value will be less next year and we won’t get as much for him-this is about the ideal time to maximize what we get in a trade.

As for Francis, from what I’ve heard the Mariners offered him a minor league deal, which the Rockies quickly offered to match. Renck said that the Rockies would match any Minor league deal any team offered for Francis. But I also heard that the Mets are looking into signing him to their rotation. As much as I’d love to have Jeff back, I can’t help but think somebody will offer him a major league deal for next year.

by Shoemaker on Dec 3, 2010 12:56 PM MST up reply actions  

Yes, I agree....and I'm bummed we didn't pick up the option

That said, with JDLR as the target, I understand it. I don’t like it, but I finally understand it.

So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?

Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?

by Mondogarage on Dec 3, 2010 1:15 PM MST up reply actions  

Rogers' value is a lot less in a trade than his potential on the mound

It’s not even close. I don’t quite understand where Rockies fans get this idea that he’s a hot commodity. He’s an intriguing pitcher that would add value to a trade package, but I haven’t seen one mention of him as being a guy other teams want to target. Conversely, the value of a good swing starter/longman is about equal to that of an elite closer, think of something like the role Carlos Zambrano played for the Cubs last season or even Jhoulys Chacin for us.

You’d be talking two and a half to three wins, or about the equivalent value of a slightly above average MLB starting position player. We’re not going to get that back for Rogers alone this winter.

by Rox Girl on Dec 4, 2010 6:14 AM MST up reply actions  

Thanks for clearing that up

I’ve been confused why people thought other teams were really after him. I just couldn’t see it in any talks.

by butterfly on Dec 4, 2010 6:58 AM MST up reply actions  

mmmm...

I think that among the five of Stewart, Lopez, Nelson, EY2, Herrera, Stewart is the least expendable.

He is clearly the most plus bat (and possibly the only plus bat), plays solid D, has the upside to break out, etc. We don’t really need more pitching, and flipping him for such would just weaken our hitting.

With four 2nd basemen, I would think that at least one will earn his playing time. However, if we trade Stewart, I’m not confident that 2 of them will be valuable.

IMO, best option is to either:

1. Decide now who starts at 2B, keep one as backup and AAA the rest
2. Decide now who starts at 2B, keep one as backup and trade the rest now.

Rocktober is not a time of year, it is a religion.

by hjrrockies on Dec 3, 2010 12:26 PM MST up reply actions  

expendable in that there's now another player on the roster who was a starter at his position last year

and for all the reasons you mention, he’s clearly the most valuable of the five when it comes to what we could get back in a trade. Any of the other five probably don’t bring a back a major league asset, at least not one a contending team would want, Stewart might.

by Rox Girl on Dec 3, 2010 12:30 PM MST up reply actions  

True

I don’t know if getting back major league talent is worth it. We would either need to get a corner outfielder that is > than Smith (which isn’t easy), a catcher that is > than Iannetta (would cost more than Stewart), a starter that is > than Hammel, or a 1B/3B that is > than Helton and doesn’t mind platooning.

I think that Stewart’s value is as low as it’s ever going to be. I expect that he will have continued improvements, and selling low like that will only give marginal benefits at the risk that we miss his “breakout” season.

Rocktober is not a time of year, it is a religion.

by hjrrockies on Dec 3, 2010 12:36 PM MST up reply actions  

how long are we prepared to wait for his "breakout" season?

I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it. ~Rogers Hornsby

by pedalpusher on Dec 3, 2010 3:22 PM MST up reply actions  

1 year is about all I have left for him

He’s only had 2 full seasons in the MLB so maybe 1.5.

With those who don't give a damn about baseball, I can only sympathize. I do not resent them. I am even willing to concede that many of them are physically clean, good to their mothers and in favor of world peace. But while the game is on, I can't think of anything to say to them. ~Art Hill
JFK

by jrockies on Dec 3, 2010 3:24 PM MST up reply actions  

He has about four years left under team control

At a pretty affordable price for most of that, so like Lopez, I’d imagine he’d be given every chance until he becomes too expensive and/or team control ends.

Since he’s not costly, there’s nothing prohibiting keeping him on the roster and replacing him with a FA or new prospect if he doesn’t break out in a season or two.

by deacs on Dec 3, 2010 3:28 PM MST up reply actions  

the word arbitration

comes to mind, as he’s likely to get a raise every year unless he just does absolutely terrible. He could start demanding some pretty high prices in the near future.

With those who don't give a damn about baseball, I can only sympathize. I do not resent them. I am even willing to concede that many of them are physically clean, good to their mothers and in favor of world peace. But while the game is on, I can't think of anything to say to them. ~Art Hill
JFK

by jrockies on Dec 3, 2010 3:30 PM MST up reply actions  

His numbers aren't really that exciting to arbitrators.

Unless he blossoms, in which case it’s worth it. The team could also buy out his team years for a Jose Lopez-type deal and hope that he doesn’t turn into Jose Lopez.

But Lopez is a great example of how long teams will wait for a change that never comes. In no way am I comparing the two or suggesting that Lopez should take Stewart’s job, but in many ways Stewart is superior to Lopez already and he’s still two years younger.

The high expectations that he’s had for so long seem to cloud the fact that he’s already a valuable player, and that most efforts to replace him would be downgrades or lateral moves (unless you can trade for some stud, but then it becomes another issue).

by deacs on Dec 3, 2010 3:35 PM MST up reply actions  

I like this line

The high expectations that he’s had for so long seem to cloud the fact that he’s already a valuable player

With those who don't give a damn about baseball, I can only sympathize. I do not resent them. I am even willing to concede that many of them are physically clean, good to their mothers and in favor of world peace. But while the game is on, I can't think of anything to say to them. ~Art Hill
JFK

by jrockies on Dec 3, 2010 3:40 PM MST up reply actions  

I hear Ian Desmond is available....what do we think of him?

Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Dec 3, 2010 12:08 PM MST reply actions  

Needs to cut down

on the errors, which he should. A good. 308 wOBA for a rookie. Nats probably want starting pitching in return.

"No Mission Too Difficult, No Sacrifice Too Great—Duty First" - 1st Infantry Division Motto

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by Russ Oates on Dec 3, 2010 12:12 PM MST up reply actions  

My interest is mild

He seems to be yet another guy who is not any better than what we have.

by mkorpal on Dec 3, 2010 12:12 PM MST up reply actions  

I think he's Chris Nelson.

But white, and with a slightly more consistent minor league track record.

Not much of an upgrade from the current young kids troika.

by deacs on Dec 3, 2010 12:12 PM MST up reply actions  

Also, I was listening to Kizsla and Goodman on 1510 AM this morning.

They said Berkman was out of the picture becasue the A’s were willing to give him more money.

I was under the impression that Berkman was more interested in a guarantee of playing time in the field, and not so much an issue of “give me more money”.

The Rockies sign Tulo to a 7 yr extension for a total contract worth of $157 million and the local media is still talking about the Rockies as though ownership is cheap!

by blooming rock on Dec 3, 2010 12:12 PM MST reply actions  

There is a difference

Between the guaranteed 8-10 million that a team like the A’s might give him, and the 4-5 million that we might give him. He could take less for the playing time, but not that much less.

by mkorpal on Dec 3, 2010 12:14 PM MST up reply actions  

To that point. If Berkman went somewhere else for guaranteed playing time, which the Rockies weren't willing to promise.

Maybe that sheds light on why they traded for Lopez rather than waited for him to be non-tendered?

Because the Rockies weren’t going to promise him a starting position, so he might’ve gone elsewhere?

by blooming rock on Dec 3, 2010 12:14 PM MST up reply actions  

Hypothetical: Dunn vs. DLR

Both contracts as they were signed (Dunn did 4y/$56m). Who would you rather have signed?

by deacs on Dec 3, 2010 12:14 PM MST reply actions  

With the current team or with a blank slate?

Because if we could assume Dunn playing 1B every game in Coors, I’d take Dunn in a heartbeat.

by Shoemaker on Dec 3, 2010 12:15 PM MST up reply actions  

Well, then its a choice between making Helton the most expensive bench player in baseball,

or dealing with the horrors of Dunn in the outfield.

That certainly makes Jorge more appealing, but man. Adam Dunn in Coors field. Jeez that would be gorgeous.

by Shoemaker on Dec 3, 2010 12:19 PM MST up reply actions  

I'd be sitting by I-70 with my glove

So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?

Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?

by Mondogarage on Dec 3, 2010 12:20 PM MST up reply actions  

I-70?

Dang…

Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Dec 3, 2010 12:22 PM MST up reply actions  

Well, at least Brighton Blvd

I mean, it’s Dunn Dun Dun DUNNPOWER

So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?

Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?

by Mondogarage on Dec 3, 2010 12:38 PM MST up reply actions  

Helton's contract is a sunk cost.

Bench, Starter, or MVP, we are paying him the same regardless. You shouldn’t let the size of one’s contract dictate their playing time. If Helton can’t be an adequate starter anymore, then other options should be pursued.

Rocktober is not a time of year, it is a religion.

by hjrrockies on Dec 3, 2010 12:30 PM MST up reply actions  

Well, yes, but given our limited payroll,

and the fact that Helton still has a chance at being a productive player next year, our money could be better spent on other positions rather than acquiring somebody like Dunn who is expensive in his own right and forces Helton to the bench.

by Shoemaker on Dec 3, 2010 12:32 PM MST up reply actions  

Yea

I agree about that, I was just responding to the “most expensive bench player” part.

Rocktober is not a time of year, it is a religion.

by hjrrockies on Dec 3, 2010 12:38 PM MST up reply actions  

Oh, I definitely agree that you don't start Helton just because he's being paid the most.

It was mainly an argument for why going after Dunn wasn’t a very good idea.

by Shoemaker on Dec 3, 2010 12:41 PM MST up reply actions  

Where is Chris Nelson on you Projected Roster?

Ubaldo "Iron Arm" Jimenez
Seth Smith’s beard looks on in anticipation.
Zomtober!!!

by Colsportsfan on Dec 3, 2010 12:43 PM MST reply actions  

AAA.

Herrera fits the bill of a utility player more than Nelson does. There would have been room for Nelson on the roster had we not acquired Jose Lopez. At this point, the only likely way Nelson makes it onto the roster is as the starting second baseman.

PROJECT LIBRA: Depth / Transactions
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates

by Greg Stanwood on Dec 3, 2010 12:50 PM MST up reply actions  

I have mix feelings about Lopez

He has a upside to bounce back and does put the ball in play rather than striking out. The Downside is that it adds to our already crowed infield, but my biggest problem is that Nelson would get no playing time.

Ubaldo "Iron Arm" Jimenez
Seth Smith’s beard looks on in anticipation.
Zomtober!!!

by Colsportsfan on Dec 3, 2010 12:47 PM MST reply actions  

I was wrong

The Yankees had to offer Mariano that much money. The Red Sox were making a play for him.

120 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 3, 2010 1:23 PM MST reply actions  

How much longer are they going to keep Papelbon?

It seems like we’ve been hearing stories about how he’s overpaid and Boston looking to move him for 2-3 years.

I’d rather rub a cheese grater on my intimate parts than have to root for him.

by deacs on Dec 3, 2010 1:30 PM MST up reply actions  

Reports out of Boston are that the Red Sox are trying to trade him but as you might expect nobody in their right mind wants to pay that dillweed the 11.5 million he's going to ask for in arbitration

I would have just non tenured him, let Bard close, and spend the $11.5 million elsewhere but now it looks like the Red Sox are stuck with him for at least another year because if Papelbon goes anywhere, a whole bunch of cash is going to have to be traded with him.

Now both Papelbon and Red Sox fans are furious over the whole thing. Isn’t it great.

120 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 3, 2010 1:42 PM MST up reply actions  

Oh I love this so hard

So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?

Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?

by Mondogarage on Dec 3, 2010 1:48 PM MST up reply actions  

This game is where it seemed to reach the point of no return.

The Red Sox had just scored two off Mariano in the 9th to take a 3-2 lead and were about to complete a sweep of the Yankees in New York that would have landed them just four games behind the Yankees with a series at home against them the following weekend. Papelbon then blows the save, the Red Sox lose the game, and afterwards Papelbon blames the umpire saying that it wasn’t his fault he gave up the run because he had to pitch against both the Yankees and the umpire because the umpire didn’t like him.

Red Sox fans didn’t buy it and instead blamed the loss (which basically ended their season) squarely on Papelbon and called him a coward for trying to pass blame onto the umpire.

Papelbon on the other hand feels disrespected by the owners because they are not thrilled about paying him north of $11 million (a figure he’s adamant he’s worth) and he’s angry at the fans because he feels they don’t appreciate his services.

I find the whole thing quite amusing.

120 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 3, 2010 2:12 PM MST up reply actions  

Best buds. Best bros.

by deacs on Dec 3, 2010 1:53 PM MST up reply actions  

Yeah, I'm thinking no

Papelbon and Tulo are completely different personalities.

120 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 3, 2010 2:12 PM MST up reply actions  

No but I have studied interpersonal communication

I’ve also heard thing’s they’ve said and seen the things they do.

Papelbon allows his dog to eat the World Series winning game ball, says he doesn’t care what team he plays for as long as he makes more money than any other closer in the game, refers to himself in third person as CincoOcho, and complains umpires don’t like him after games he performs poorly in.

I can’t imagine Tulo doing any of these things.

120 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 3, 2010 2:27 PM MST up reply actions  

Yeah, I was mostly kidding about the whole thing

But Tulo flips out in the batter’s box and slams a broken bat down in the ground, and [blah blah blah we don’t need to go down this road].

I agree that they’re probably not compatible people. Papelbon seems like a psycho. I didn’t know about the dog/ball story. I’d cry if my dog ate my varsity letter for tennis.

by deacs on Dec 3, 2010 2:36 PM MST up reply actions  

Wow, now PETA will be after me..

I mean slap it on the nose. Scold it severely.

@charliedrysdale

by Charlie77 on Dec 3, 2010 2:41 PM MST up reply actions  

I thought about writing that I would shoot the dog for eating the WS ball

but then I thought of that scene in Wonderboys, and Michael Douglas was right, Tobey Maguire could’ve just pulled the dog off him.

by deacs on Dec 3, 2010 2:42 PM MST up reply actions  

Scold it severely. Write it a strongly worded letter of protest

We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!

Bazinga!!

SD Cat 09 is still awesome

by Junction Rox on Dec 3, 2010 3:02 PM MST up reply actions  

Form a focus group to decide if it was really the dog's fault.

I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it. ~Rogers Hornsby

by pedalpusher on Dec 3, 2010 3:41 PM MST up reply actions  

The difference here is....

Tulo is hypercompetitive and hard on himself. Paps acts like a douche outward to other people. Very different.

So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?

Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?

by Mondogarage on Dec 3, 2010 2:40 PM MST up reply actions  

Should have been clearer that I was acknowledging that.

I was mostly kidding about the whole thing to see if we could start a flamewar. Boring, snowy day here.

by deacs on Dec 3, 2010 2:41 PM MST up reply actions  

Paging Muzia

Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Dec 3, 2010 2:47 PM MST up reply actions  

I'm staying out of this one

10 years of Tulo hate has to spread itself out, can’t blow my wad so suddenly. Especially in the offseason

Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Still hates Tulo, but is quickly losing momentum.
Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver

by Muzia on Dec 3, 2010 2:48 PM MST up reply actions  

THERE IS NO OFFSEASON FOR HATRED

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Dec 3, 2010 2:48 PM MST up reply actions  

I'm eating Yogurtland, there is very little hatred in my blood atm

Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Still hates Tulo, but is quickly losing momentum.
Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver

by Muzia on Dec 3, 2010 2:49 PM MST up reply actions  

Hatred is allowed to take yogurt breaks

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Dec 3, 2010 2:50 PM MST up reply actions  

Especially if the yogurt is past the sale-by date

Then, it’s encouraged.

So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?

Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?

by Mondogarage on Dec 3, 2010 3:02 PM MST up reply actions  

Muzia baiting

I think Michael Vick went to jail for doing that

The Big Purple Machine will make a believer outta you!

by El Paso Jeff on Dec 3, 2010 2:49 PM MST up reply actions  

Dude has made quite a comeback

He was brilliant to watch in college

Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Dec 3, 2010 2:52 PM MST up reply actions  

I've always thought his throwing was better than people gave him credit for

The first couple of NFL years were rough, but he was pretty decent by the time he went to jail.

by deacs on Dec 3, 2010 2:54 PM MST up reply actions  

I hate what he did in life but my goodness he's pretty to watch

Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Dec 3, 2010 2:56 PM MST up reply actions  

"he's pretty to watch"

Like he’s pretty, or his athleticism is pretty? Because I’m sure he was quite the pretty princess in jail.

by deacs on Dec 3, 2010 2:57 PM MST up reply actions  

Athleticism-wise....(although he is a good looking man)

I suspect he was no one’s princess in prison. He’s Michael Vick. I doubt anyone messed with him at all.

Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Dec 3, 2010 3:07 PM MST up reply actions  

If he make throws with this kind of precision now, who knows what he could do with a sharpened spoon.

by deacs on Dec 3, 2010 3:08 PM MST up reply actions  

That was crazy!

Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Dec 3, 2010 3:10 PM MST up reply actions  

impressive

With those who don't give a damn about baseball, I can only sympathize. I do not resent them. I am even willing to concede that many of them are physically clean, good to their mothers and in favor of world peace. But while the game is on, I can't think of anything to say to them. ~Art Hill
JFK

by jrockies on Dec 3, 2010 3:14 PM MST up reply actions  

wouldn't know

time warner cable is one of the big cable companies that wont pay the outrageous fee’s NFL network is charging

Because they care about their customers. Yeah right

Both party’s=buttholes

The Big Purple Machine will make a believer outta you!

by El Paso Jeff on Dec 3, 2010 2:54 PM MST up reply actions  

It's just windy here

I want snow

With those who don't give a damn about baseball, I can only sympathize. I do not resent them. I am even willing to concede that many of them are physically clean, good to their mothers and in favor of world peace. But while the game is on, I can't think of anything to say to them. ~Art Hill
JFK

by jrockies on Dec 3, 2010 2:58 PM MST up reply actions  

Does it do the thing in CO where it just eekes a little bit of snow every day for consecutive days?

That happens a lot here, and it adds up to like an inch over three days but it never stops snowing.

by deacs on Dec 3, 2010 2:59 PM MST up reply actions  

Papelbon said he left the ball on the ground and his dog got to it and chewed it up

When you consider how badly some players would love to have a World Series winning game ball in their possession, Papelbon’s a disgrace to baseball for leaving it on the ground. Worse yet was his attitude afterward. He basically said “oh well”, and didn’t regret leaving it on the ground at all.

I’m pretty sure that if Tulo ever gets a World Series winning game ball it would be one of his most cherished possessions and it would always be kept in a safe place because unlike Papelbon, Tulo actually cares about the history of the game.

120 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 3, 2010 2:49 PM MST up reply actions  

"Tulo would also make love to it nightly"

Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Still hates Tulo, but is quickly losing momentum.
Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver

by Muzia on Dec 3, 2010 2:51 PM MST up reply actions  

Do you really want to go down this road?

120 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 3, 2010 2:59 PM MST up reply actions  

Tulo's Love = Chewed on by Dog

It’s math!

Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Still hates Tulo, but is quickly losing momentum.
Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver

by Muzia on Dec 3, 2010 3:00 PM MST up reply actions  

Have you ever been bitten by a dog?

because by your math that would mean Tulo has made love to you.

120 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 3, 2010 3:05 PM MST up reply actions  

Can't say that I have needed a rabies shot soooo

no, on both counts :-D

Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Still hates Tulo, but is quickly losing momentum.
Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver

by Muzia on Dec 3, 2010 3:08 PM MST up reply actions  

Boils down to this for me...

If we can somehow trade Ian Stewart for a top-3 caliber pitcher that has the game in his blood, Lopez is a fine stopgap at 3B. To be clear, I’m not faulting Stewart for caring more about his family and pancakes than baseball, but I’m selfish in the sense I want all my guys to live and breathe baseball. I suppose there’s a case to be made that if Lopez tweeted, it’d probably be mostly about food as well. But he is what he is. Sick of Stewart being lauded for what he’s capable of doing when he refuses to prove any of it.

That’s the big caveat with Lopez is, if he’s going to be brought in to play 2B and be another roadblock for Nelson…what was the point? Why hasn’t Nelson been given free reign yet? Let him go and have Herrera backing him up. Trade Stewart and EY.

Who knows.

by BR1 on Dec 3, 2010 3:05 PM MST reply actions  

welcome to PR

which top 3 pitcher did you have in mind? and do you think that is really most pressing need considering we already resigned Jorge?

by BringItHome on Dec 3, 2010 3:09 PM MST up reply actions  

Welcome to Purple Row

I don’t think we need a top 3 pitcher any more (granted it would be nice). The main holes we have are 1B/C backup and another solid RHB (preferably in the 5-6 range in our lineup).

I don’t know if Lopez is being brought in and given the 2B job because we do have plenty of people that can win it. I think Nelson definitely has a chance with Lopez being the utility guy. If Nelson doesn’t win then he will get called up sometime during the year as a replacement for injury but he needs consistent playing time.

The last time we had a rookie as our primary second baseman coming out of ST we couldn’t get him going and it took a while to get any production from the position. I think the Rockies are trying to avoid having this be the case and therefore the Lopez signing works, even without getting rid of Stewart.

With those who don't give a damn about baseball, I can only sympathize. I do not resent them. I am even willing to concede that many of them are physically clean, good to their mothers and in favor of world peace. But while the game is on, I can't think of anything to say to them. ~Art Hill
JFK

by jrockies on Dec 3, 2010 3:12 PM MST up reply actions  

thanks for the welcomes

It’s certainly not as big a need anymore, but I was under the impression the talks with CHW about Floyd were at least semi-serious. I guess that was probably when they thought DLR was gone, or bluffing to force DLR’s hand.

Hammel and Cook aren’t sure things but then few 4/5s are. I guess we can trot Stewart out there again and hope something clicks. Lopez against LHPs. I just really want to see what Nelson can do. I think we deserve to after this long of a wait.

by BR1 on Dec 3, 2010 3:14 PM MST up reply actions  

Yeah I think most people here agree with you

about wanting to see more of Nelson. I mentioned earlier that both Nelson and Lopez seem to be guys who need some motivation so a competition for the starting 2B position might work well for them.

by BringItHome on Dec 3, 2010 3:16 PM MST up reply actions  

I honestly think the FO gives Stewart a chance to become a full time player this season

no room for platoons. Either he sinks or he swims.

That being said, I can’t really disagree with anything else you’ve said here

Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Still hates Tulo, but is quickly losing momentum.
Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver

by Muzia on Dec 3, 2010 3:17 PM MST up reply actions  

Hammel is pretty close to a sure thing, unless is arm is not right

but aside from speculation about overuse, I haven’t heard any official concerns about him.

He was the second most valuable pitcher after Ubaldo, strikes out a fair number of hitters, walks very few, and gets a fair amount of ground balls. He’s pretty solid.

by deacs on Dec 3, 2010 3:18 PM MST up reply actions  

He's just not sexy

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 3, 2010 3:22 PM MST up reply actions  

no one is

except maybe Tom Brady

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Dec 3, 2010 4:14 PM MST up reply actions  

Love Hammel

Though his splits away from Coors are somewhat worrisome. I expect him to win every time at home though.

by BR1 on Dec 3, 2010 3:23 PM MST up reply actions  

Which is so funny

since the joke in 2009 was to put him on a plane in homestands to convince him he was on the road. These sort of things are never as indicative of real issues as they seem. They even out.

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 3, 2010 3:24 PM MST up reply actions  

Didn't he start out hot at home

in 09, though? Kind of a fluky finish, no? His stuff is tailor made for Coors.

by BR1 on Dec 3, 2010 3:26 PM MST up reply actions  

Hammel was terrible at Coors to start

But the Rockies are something silly like 25-5 in his last 30 home starts

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 3, 2010 3:59 PM MST up reply actions  

I loves me some Hammel....One of my favorite Rockies since Hawpe left

Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Dec 3, 2010 4:00 PM MST up reply actions  

Why did you like Hawpe?

by BR1 on Dec 3, 2010 4:40 PM MST up reply actions  

it’s completely irrational…

jk

With those who don't give a damn about baseball, I can only sympathize. I do not resent them. I am even willing to concede that many of them are physically clean, good to their mothers and in favor of world peace. But while the game is on, I can't think of anything to say to them. ~Art Hill
JFK

by jrockies on Dec 3, 2010 4:43 PM MST up reply actions  

He's soooooooooooo cute

Naw….mostly because of how he approached the game and that beautiful swing and rocket arm.
(and yes I did find him HAWT)

I wrote a fanpost about him when he left the Rockies….

Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Dec 3, 2010 4:46 PM MST up reply actions  

Well at least you’re honest about it being mostly an aesthetic thing. He has a big arm but is a butcher in the outfield.

by BR1 on Dec 3, 2010 6:13 PM MST up reply actions  

Actually, it's not mostly an aesthetic thing at all....

Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Dec 3, 2010 6:43 PM MST up reply actions  

Here's the fanpost she wrote

Link

120 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 3, 2010 10:14 PM MST up reply actions  

It's this simple:

you trade Stewart, you lose a big chunk of the power in the lineup and a great glove. Stewart is not going anywhere.

We signed JDLR, why would we need a top-3 tier pitcher? The rotation is set (pretty much in stone) at Ubaldo, JDLR, Chacin, Hammel, Cook. Stewart really, really SHOULD NOT BE TRADED.

I'm GoRockies!! everybody :P

by CentralCaliRox on Dec 3, 2010 3:13 PM MST up reply actions  

Rob Deer

didn’t help the Brewers much.

I really don’t want to spiral off into Stewart hate, I actually think he’s a good role model. Playing terribly and not taking it home is a good trait to have.

by BR1 on Dec 3, 2010 3:18 PM MST up reply actions  

On any given day, not overall

I realize he has all the talent in the world.

by BR1 on Dec 3, 2010 3:19 PM MST up reply actions  

Fair enough.

He’s still just 25 though; Tulos are the exception to the rule about young people not always being ready.

by deacs on Dec 3, 2010 3:23 PM MST up reply actions  

Fair point

He’s been in the system so long that it’s shocking to me that he’s still that young, even having been drafted out of HS.

by BR1 on Dec 3, 2010 3:24 PM MST up reply actions  

He's been

in the system a long time, since 2003, and he’s been playing in MLB games since 2007 but he has only had 2 full seasons up so I think he can have a little bit more time to show his ability, although it is really getting frustrating.

With those who don't give a damn about baseball, I can only sympathize. I do not resent them. I am even willing to concede that many of them are physically clean, good to their mothers and in favor of world peace. But while the game is on, I can't think of anything to say to them. ~Art Hill
JFK

by jrockies on Dec 3, 2010 3:27 PM MST up reply actions  

...and that's where I'm at

Frustrated. He’s a Barmes-esque rally killer, but I’ll chalk it up to bad luck. Need to just quit reading his twitter, because I don’t really want to know about his butter dipped crab legs after a golden sombrero.

by BR1 on Dec 3, 2010 3:29 PM MST up reply actions  

Ian Stewart is already a valuable player for the Rockies, not looking at how much better he could be at all.

His bat frustrates me as much as anyone, but his glove is solid and consistent. His career OPS+ is not great (96), in fact, it’s average; but combine that with the fact that nobody thinks he’s come close to his ceiling and he’s only 25? I’ll give him at least next year . . . and please let him play every day, he’s been semi-platooned most of his time in the MLB.

by blooming rock on Dec 3, 2010 5:44 PM MST up reply actions  

DON'T chalk it up to bad luck

Stewart has terrible plate coverage and his hitting fundamentals are dreadful. And even at that, he puts up halfway decent numbers in addition to his 3B skills.

I think his issues at the plate can be fixed, and then he can be a middle-of-the-order beast. Or, he can maintain the status quo and go backwards, like Mark Reynolds in AZ. I hope he chooses the former, and I would like to give him at least another year or two to do that.

by Rockpile Interloper on Dec 3, 2010 7:07 PM MST up reply actions  

Not sure he does

We tend to confuse “can hit the ball a mile” with “all the talent in the world.” Not the same. Stewart seems to me like a dime-a-dozen fastball hitting big boy who happens to be strong as an ox. He’s missing a lot of the subtle hitting skills that let guys succeed beyond the “let’s throw this guy some gas and see what he’s got” phase of a MLB career. So no, I don’t know yet if he’s got that talent, and I suspect he doesn’t. If the White Sox think he does, I’m really inclined to go ahead and rob them.

by BostonTransplant on Dec 3, 2010 3:47 PM MST via mobile up reply actions  

He also has good on-base skills

which would signal that he knows a little about what do to at the plate. At 23 years old, he posted a .349 OBP and .347 wOBA in half a season. That’s backed up by good minor league numbers. That takes some talent.

by deacs on Dec 3, 2010 3:51 PM MST up reply actions  

I think he still has a lot to show

This is based on watching him extensively and thinking of some things he could change that would help him, such as moving away from the plate a little bit and possibly lowering his hands to get them through the zone faster. I think a hitting coach has to work with him a little bit to bring out what a lot of us expect him to be able to do. This next year will be very interesting.

With those who don't give a damn about baseball, I can only sympathize. I do not resent them. I am even willing to concede that many of them are physically clean, good to their mothers and in favor of world peace. But while the game is on, I can't think of anything to say to them. ~Art Hill
JFK

by jrockies on Dec 3, 2010 3:54 PM MST up reply actions  

I think it was just a general statement of "not taking your work home with you"

Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Still hates Tulo, but is quickly losing momentum.
Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver

by Muzia on Dec 3, 2010 3:20 PM MST up reply actions  

Although he's never slopped hogs like I have..

Stewart and I both share a love of delicious pancakes. So I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt for a couple more years.

@charliedrysdale

by Charlie77 on Dec 3, 2010 3:36 PM MST up reply actions  

Show and Tell Day

He does need to pay more attention during show and tell day as well. Ian Ian.

I think is his make or break year with the Rox. I for one have been calling him Russell Branyan Jr. for several years now.

by RoxandRoll on Dec 3, 2010 7:49 PM MST up reply actions  

Get this man out of my division!! (unless he is playing for my team)

Red Sox and Padres are getting “warmer” in an Adrian Gonzalez deal.

Is it 2011 yet?

by The Lodo Magic Man on Dec 3, 2010 4:23 PM MST reply actions  

A-Gon for Papelbutt??

We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!

Bazinga!!

SD Cat 09 is still awesome

by Junction Rox on Dec 3, 2010 4:24 PM MST up reply actions  

I think we should take a collection to help pay for Papelbutt's 2011 salary, if it will make this happen

So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?

Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?

by Mondogarage on Dec 3, 2010 4:54 PM MST up reply actions  

For who though?

I don’t know if I want to know who SD will be getting back (although we do have Tulo)

With those who don't give a damn about baseball, I can only sympathize. I do not resent them. I am even willing to concede that many of them are physically clean, good to their mothers and in favor of world peace. But while the game is on, I can't think of anything to say to them. ~Art Hill
JFK

by jrockies on Dec 3, 2010 4:24 PM MST up reply actions  

Kelly at the very minimum

plus at least three other minor leaguers, I imagine. BoSox have a great farm system for this type of trade

Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Still hates Tulo, but is quickly losing momentum.
Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver

by Muzia on Dec 3, 2010 4:26 PM MST up reply actions  

One of the reports said all minor leaguers, which is interesting

since SD would seem to have a shot at contention next year.

by deacs on Dec 3, 2010 4:48 PM MST up reply actions  

Kind of but lets just assume they understand how fluky last year was

getting younger is a great idea, the LAD are going to be in the basement in about 4 years the pads could easily be in the mix every year by then

Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908

by TomCat009 on Dec 3, 2010 4:49 PM MST up reply actions  

They'll have to continuously get younger as long as they don't have the payroll to support players likle AGon

I know last year was fluky, but there’s still great young pitching and some ok hitting (Ludwick should help their offense over a full season).

by deacs on Dec 3, 2010 4:53 PM MST up reply actions  

they have some interesting pieces but this makes Latos the face of their franchise

Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908

by TomCat009 on Dec 3, 2010 5:03 PM MST up reply actions  

Well, they can always resign Hairson and make him the ass of the franchise

So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?

Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?

by Mondogarage on Dec 3, 2010 5:08 PM MST up reply actions  

So sad for San Diego fans...they should all just become Rockies fans

Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Dec 3, 2010 4:39 PM MST up reply actions  

as long as they are legit fans

and not bandwagon until the next big thing hits SD

With those who don't give a damn about baseball, I can only sympathize. I do not resent them. I am even willing to concede that many of them are physically clean, good to their mothers and in favor of world peace. But while the game is on, I can't think of anything to say to them. ~Art Hill
JFK

by jrockies on Dec 3, 2010 4:44 PM MST up reply actions  

Gosh, we get enough of them here in Colorado, so I wouldn't worry too too much

So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?

Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?

by Mondogarage on Dec 3, 2010 4:55 PM MST up reply actions  

That is the definition of the typical San Diego sports fan.

I can remember buying walk-up tickets when the Chargers were awful – now it’s a sea of Rivers (and LT) jerseys. Padres fans were the same way. Read how lackadaisical they are at Gaslamp ball. The new stadium has helped somewhat but still it’s a casual crowd. When I was at SDSU. we didn’t even get many big-name concerts – we had to go to Irvine Meadows. There’s just not much in the way of fan intensity for a lot of anything. I always say that San Diego is a great place for retired naval officers to play golf. Otherwise, Denver owns.

Go Bruce!

by Since1993 on Dec 3, 2010 9:50 PM MST up reply actions  

Clarification question

If Lopez has already agreed to a contract for next year, does that mean that he wasn’t actually going to be non-tendered? or that he immediately agreed to a contract after being traded to the Rockies?

by black_knight101 on Dec 3, 2010 5:19 PM MST reply actions  

Here are the steps to Lopez this off-season

1) Mariners declined Lopez’s $4.5m for 2011

2) Lopez remains under team control until he is traded or non-tendered; during that time, the Mariners can offer him a contract of their choosing or go to arb with him

3) Lopez is traded instead of being non-tendered

4) Lopez is under control of the Rockies for 2011; they can either offer him a contract or go to arb with him. The chose the former (not for the better, I think).

by deacs on Dec 3, 2010 5:25 PM MST up reply actions  

Wow....Padres hire Josh Byrnes as VP of Baseball Operations
#Padres make it official. Former #D-backs GM Byrnes is VP baseball ops. AZ likely still paying bulk of his salary.less than a minute ago via Twitter for iPhone

Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Dec 3, 2010 5:22 PM MST reply actions  

I guess they have just given up

Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Dec 3, 2010 5:27 PM MST up reply actions  

No love?

By all accounts, he’s a smart baseball guy. He didn’t turn everything to gold in Az, but he wasn’t always bad.

by deacs on Dec 3, 2010 6:34 PM MST via mobile up reply actions  

Tracy offers a pretty interesting idea.

He says Russell Martin and Jeff Francoeur are players the Rox might try to grab. They’ll both be pricey, and with the club now needing a reliever, I don’t really see this happening.

I'm GoRockies!! everybody :P

by CentralCaliRox on Dec 3, 2010 6:52 PM MST reply actions  

GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Dec 3, 2010 7:06 PM MST reply actions  

ROCKIESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(is that what you were looking for?)

I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it. ~Rogers Hornsby

by pedalpusher on Dec 3, 2010 7:10 PM MST up reply actions   1 recs

Oh My. God. I totally thought I was in the Nuggets game thread....

I suck at life….

Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Dec 3, 2010 7:18 PM MST up reply actions  

I really thought I was missing a game thread.

I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it. ~Rogers Hornsby

by pedalpusher on Dec 3, 2010 7:20 PM MST up reply actions  

sorry friend!

Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Dec 3, 2010 7:24 PM MST up reply actions  

its not your fault

this blog is hard to navigate.

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Dec 3, 2010 8:29 PM MST up reply actions   1 recs

Day before my final.

It’s 12 hours away. I just plowed through 8 hot wings and half a large pizza.

Oh, college life.

I'm GoRockies!! everybody :P

by CentralCaliRox on Dec 3, 2010 11:44 PM MST reply actions  

So if the Adrian Gonzalez deal goes through

Are the Padres getting any immediate help, or are these strictly long-term prospects? Just wondering how huge of a hole this leaves in their lineup.

by Rockpile Interloper on Dec 4, 2010 8:11 AM MST reply actions  

not sure but maybe we should try and pry Ludwick away on the cheap now

Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908

by TomCat009 on Dec 4, 2010 8:15 AM MST up reply actions  

Cheap? Doubt it...

The Padres will still need his bat in ’11. Wonder if he can play first.

Go Bruce!

by Since1993 on Dec 4, 2010 8:26 AM MST up reply actions  

More of an all-prospects haul...

Though Kalish played in Boston in 2010. Not immediately sure who covers first for San Diego next year. And, obviously, they’ll miss his bat.

Go Bruce!

by Since1993 on Dec 4, 2010 8:15 AM MST up reply actions  

It's a very short list of players that you'd trade A-Gon for and not leave a hole in the lineup.

This will no doubt hurt San Diego in the short term, but Hoyer’s first season with them certainly successful enough to buy himself some leeway.

by Rox Girl on Dec 4, 2010 8:21 AM MST up reply actions  

And most fans get it that Gonzo was all about the money.

If Hoyer gets good players who pan out, no one will complain.

Go Bruce!

by Since1993 on Dec 4, 2010 8:24 AM MST up reply actions  

missing a "was" in that comment,

My brain was moving quicker than my fingers.

by Rox Girl on Dec 4, 2010 8:25 AM MST up reply actions  

Oh I understand it leaves a hole

I was just wondering if the return players are going to be on the field anytime soon. Not criticizing the GM at all – he has to do what he has to do.

by Rockpile Interloper on Dec 4, 2010 8:27 AM MST up reply actions  

If the players reported are really the ones...

Kalish should be ready in 2011, Kelly and Rizzo by late ’12, and Iglesias by ’13. I guess.

Go Bruce!

by Since1993 on Dec 4, 2010 8:32 AM MST up reply actions  

T'would appear the Gonzo to Boston deal is actually done.

Could be as great a haul for Jed Hoyer as Casey Kelly, Anthony Rizzo, Ryan Kalish, and Jose Iglesias. The Padre fan in me hopes Jed got over on the Sox.

Go Bruce!

by Since1993 on Dec 4, 2010 8:12 AM MST reply actions  

That's going to be a really scary rotation in that park in about three years.

With Latos, Richard and Kelly fronting, they could be as good as the Giants five by that point.

by Rox Girl on Dec 4, 2010 8:17 AM MST up reply actions  

Yes, and Padre fans

Will literally come out by the dozens to watch them pitch.

by Rockpile Interloper on Dec 4, 2010 8:21 AM MST up reply actions  

funny, but I think this meme is a bit overplayed.

It’s my opinion that San Diego’s in a place not unlike the Rockies in about 2005/2006, and this is more of a natural dip for a team that had been mediocre/underwhelming going into rebuild mode than a sign of long term weakness in attendance. Given that the area and its economy continue to grow, I like their long term outlook better than the D-backs, financially.

by Rox Girl on Dec 4, 2010 8:30 AM MST up reply actions  

The fanbase in San Diego is fairweather...

The new park helps but Padres fans are not really that rabid. There is a solid core, to be sure but San Diego just is not the sports town Denver is.

Go Bruce!

by Since1993 on Dec 4, 2010 8:36 AM MST up reply actions  

Case in point:

I just joined Gaslamp Ball without a one-day waiting period!

Go Bruce!

by Since1993 on Dec 4, 2010 9:00 AM MST up reply actions  

Most fanbases are fairweather to some degree

But San Diego barely outdrew the Rays, even though the Padres went all the way to the final weekend with a playoff shot. Rays fans took a beating from the media(which was deserved to some degree) but they weren’t that much worse than Padres, Braves and Rangers fans in terms of coming out to the park last year.

by Rockpile Interloper on Dec 4, 2010 9:47 AM MST up reply actions  

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