Wednesday Rockpile: Is Acquisition of "All-Star" Ty Wigginton Worth it; Roster Pieces Falling Into Place
by Jeff Aberle on Dec 8, 2010 5:01 AM MST
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PrintIt's been a crazy few weeks for Rockies fans, and yesterday was no different. The act of following the acquisition for utility infielder Jose Lopez last week with the signing of utility infielder Ty Wigginton yesterday has understandably left some people confused, most notably Fangraphs' Dave Cameron.
Here's his reasoning:
It would be hard to find two more similarly skilled players in the game than Lopez and Wigginton. They are both slow-footed right-handed infielders with some power and no patience. Lopez is a decent enough defensive third baseman who can fake it at second and has experience at first as well. Wigginton has experience at all three spots, though he’s awful at nearly all of them.
Giving Lopez $3.6 million for one year to see if he can thrive in Coors Field, while serving as a backup corner infielder who can also play second, was a decent enough idea. Giving Wigginton that same amount of money for two years to duplicate what they just had is, well, not.
That pretty much covers my initial reaction to the Wigginton deal. However, I thought that I'd evaluate him as fairly as I could before roundly critizing this move. ATF's fanpost detailing the opinion of Camden Chat writer Stacey Long was very helpful in shaping my analysis.
What Ty Wigginton is:
1. An All-Star! No really, in 2010 and everything. He was hitting .252/.334/.434 (108 sOPS+) with 14 HRs and 45 RBI at the time, which because of the AL East translates roughly to .334/.434/.666 and 25 HRs in the NL West. Or something like that. Of course, Wigginton followed that up with a weak .244/.286/.394 (88 sOPS+) second half with 8 HRs and 31 RBIs. In all that's a .248/.312/.415 (.316 wOBA, 95 wRC+), 22 HR, 76 RBI year.
2. Right-handed -- which would reduce the Rockies' supposed vulnerability to left-handed pitching, so that's nice. I say supposed because the Rockies hit better (or at the very least as well) off lefty starters in 2010 (111 sOPS+) than they did righties (107 sOPS+).
3. A decent hitter against lefties (Career 117 wRC+) and righties (100 wRC+), which again fits what the Rockies were looking for in terms of a hitter. He's got okay power (.446 career SLG), but it isn't great production from an offense-first position like first base.
4. A journeyman -- the Rockies will be the 33 year-old's sixth franchise in eight years.
What Ty Wigginton is not:
1. A high average hitter -- his career average is .267 though his OBP is close to league average (.326). His career 19.1% strikeout rate also shows that his contact skills leave something to be desired.
2. A good infield defender -- either by the eye test or by UZR (-7.7 in 2010, -11.1 in 2009) -- or a real option as a reserve outfielder: six innings in two years is not experience in the outfield. This signing likely means that Colorado would need to either give Cole Garner a shot in the OF, move EY2 there, or acquire another free agent to fill the void.
3. Fast -- he's only got 12 stolen bases in the last five years, lending credence to his lack of defensive utility.
What we don't know:
1. How much he'll be helped by the move from the AL East to the NL and a fantastic hitter's park. Wigginton has shown lots of pop (four 20 HR seasons in his last five), so the speculation that he could be a more productive version of Melvin Mora is certainly intriguing to me.
2. How Wigginton will perform in a platoon role. As I mentioned above, he hits pitchers well from both sides, but his advantage against left-handed pitching is pretty small overall, leading me to believe that he'll be used in more situations than in a pure platoon with Helton/Stewart.
3. If Wigginton's PAs be limited to less than 350, where they belong. For reasons outlined above, Wigginton is not an everyday player, especially not over Ian Stewart. However, Jim Tracy has differed with me before and I'm afraid that it will happen again. O'Dowd obviously thinks very highly of Wigginton, and the high amount of the contract would seem to indicate that Wigginton is being tabbed for a large role in 2011.
Verdict
Jim Armstrong indicates that the Rockies see Wigginton as an impact bat. If by impact they mean league-average but below positional average, then yes, Wigginton is an impact bat. The Renck article seems to indicate that Wigginton will receive a lot of playing time. As Cameron pointed out yesterday, Wigginton is a very similar player to Lopez in skill-set. Lopez is younger by about five years and has more defensive ability (particularly at second, where I think he will be the starter) while Wigginton is probably a better overall bat.
Here's the question though: is paying $3.5 million for Wigginton (plus a second year at $4 million) to be a slightly more valuable Melvin Mora worth it? In the sense that one more marginal win and insurance from injuries may be the difference between Rocktober and the October debacle of 2010, it very well may be.
I tend to believe that the Rockies are hoping for an Aubrey Huff - type bounceback year by either Wigginton or Lopez, with the winner being slotted in at second base and the loser backing up Helton, etc. but still playing a big role. In any case, with this deal Colorado has likely insured themselves against replacement-level play in 2011 from their infield at risk of suppressing a potential break-out year by a prospect like Chris Nelson or Eric Young Jr.
A breakdown of where these moves leave the roster is after the fold.
Michael Young? Seriously?
As if this situation wasn't crazy enough, rumors are flying that the Rockies are interested in trading for Rangers 3B Michael Young, who is scheduled to make $16 million each year from 2011-2013. For many reasons, most of them payroll related, this wouldn't be a great idea. These rumors are not serious, I think, but it would add to the aforementioned infield glut at considerable expense to Colorado.
Yes, Young is a better player in the infield than all incumbents except Tulo and perhaps Stewart, but the marginal benefit of such a move (probably hovering around one win) is simply not worth the cost. Obviously the Rangers would need to eat some salary or take back big money (like Cook and Lopez) in return to have such a deal make any sense.
According to USA Today's Bob Nightengale, the Rangers have told Young that he won't be traded.
Roster Crunching
With both Wigginton and Lopez added to the roster, here's what I have as Colorado's 2011 roster:
What the Rockies Already Owe in 2011
| Player Name | Service Time | 2011 Salary | Additional Min. Obligation | Years After 2011 |
| Todd Helton | 13.059 | $10,600,000 | $9,900,000 | 2 |
| Jorge De La Rosa | 6.015 | $10,500,000 | $11,000,000 | 1 |
| Aaron Cook | 8.02 | $9,250,000 | $500,000 | 0 |
| Huston Street | 6 | $7,300,000 | $8,000,000 | 1 |
| Troy Tulowitzki | 4.033 | $5,500,000 | $152,250,000 | 9 |
| Rafael Betancourt | 7.079 | $3,775,000 | $0 | 0 |
| Jose Lopez | 5.14 | $3,600,000 | $0 | 0 |
| Ty Wigginton | 7.169 | $3,500,000 | $4,500,000 | 1 |
| Ubaldo Jimenez | 3.087 | $2,800,000 | $5,200,000 | 1 |
| Chris Iannetta | 4 | $2,550,000 | $3,800,000 | 1 |
| Ryan Spilborghs | 4.082 | $1,925,000 | $0 | 0 |
| Manuel Corpas | 4.076 | $3,500,000 | $250,000 | 0 |
| Brad Hawpe | 6.054 | $500,000 | $0 | 0 |
| Octavio Dotel | 11.113 | $125,000 | $0 | 0 |
| $65,425,000 | $195,150,000 |
Remember, buyouts are in italics. For the purpose of accuracy I'm assuming that all club options are declined.
Arbitration Eligible
| Player Name | ML Service Time | 2010 Salary | 2011 Salary | Diff. from 2010 |
| Jason Hammel | 3.153 | $1,900,000 | $5,400,000 | 184% |
| Matt Belisle | 5.02 | $850,000 | $3,200,000 | 276% |
| Ian Stewart | 2.154 | $406,000 | $2,250,000 | 454% |
| Felipe Paulino | 2.163 | $415,000 | $1,750,000 | 322% |
| Total | $3,571,000 | $12,600,000 | 309% |
For more details on my reasoning for projected arbitration awards as well as an explanation of each category, check out my offseason preview.
Pre Arbitration
| Player Name | ML Service Time | 2011 Salary |
| Seth Smith | 2.119 | $425,000 |
| Carlos Gonzalez | 2.06 | $450,000 |
| Franklin Morales | 2.018 | $406,000 |
| Dexter Fowler | 2.005 | $406,000 |
| Eric Young Jr. | 1.017 | $406,000 |
| Jhoulys Chacin | 1.01 | $406,000 |
| Jonathan Herrera | 0.155 | $406,000 |
| Esmil Rogers | 0.129 | $406,000 |
| Matt Reynolds | 0.045 | $403,000 |
| Mike McKenry | 0.027 | $401,000 |
| Total | $4,115,000 |
This roster assumes EY2 hanging on as the 5th outfielder (so Cole Garner could be a logical replacement). These salaries are for the most part just estimates of where I see their contracts shaking out, but the difference is very minimal given their small salaries.
That's a full 25 man roster and a current Opening Day payroll projection of $82,140,000, but realistically Colorado still has two roster spots to fill (displacing McKenry and Rogers) and around $3-5 million to spend on them for a final payroll range of $84-86 million.
The first slot, backup catcher, won't be going to rumored target Ronny Paulino, who signed with the Mets for $1.3 million. The second would be a relief pitcher, whether it be a lefty like Brian Fuentes (probably too expensive), Pedro Feliciano, and Joe Beimel or a righty such as Colorado native Jesse Crain. Colorado could also go with in-house options at either position and be relatively fine, especially in the case of the bullpen.
Other News
Jim Tracy has been released from the hospital, having been diagnosed with a mild heart arrhythmia. Hopefully all is well for the Rockies skipper.
In Troy Renck's blog post that rumored Colorado getting Paulino as a backup catcher, there is a note that Rockies 1st round draft pick Kyle Parker must make a decision by January 15th whether he will be reporting to Spring Training or going back for more football. Barring a severe injury in his bowl game, it appears that Parker will be joining the Rockies by that point.
In addition, Adam Everett is mentioned as yet another potential infield backup, to which I say, please no, while the team mentions that they have a yet-to-be revealed plan for handling Todd Helton's playing time and are sending new hitting coach Carney Lansford across the eastern seaboard to work his magic on young and talented but struggling Rockies hitters.
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Comments
I really don’t see Ty Wigginton being a player who’s in contention for a job. I maintain that Jose Lopez is the starting second baseman heading into Opening Day unless he is injured in the Spring or comes down with a case of Steve Sax Disease.
If Wigginton does see significant at-bats, it’s because either Ian Stewart isn’t hitting or Todd Helton is hurt. And if either of those things happen, the Rox are in rough shape, but not as rough shape as they would have been had they been looking to give those at-bats to a guy like Jorge Cantu or an in-house replacement (where have you gone, Christian Colonel?).
Didn’t vote in the poll because there was no option for ‘Think he’s a good fit for what the Rockies needed’. Remember, outside of Tulo last year, we didn’t have a single right-handed hitter who could hit for any consistent power. Now there’s a consistent 20 homer guy in Wigginton plus the potential of Lopez to return to that kind of form in a friendlier ballpark. I like both moves and think the team has improved itself with the addition of both players, though those moves themselves aren’t going to put the Rox over the top in the West unless they’re coupled with better health and breakouts/bouncebacks from the Smith/Stewart/Fowler/Iannetta group. But I’m not telling you anything you don’t already know, there.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
I agree with almost everything you say here
my only qualm with the acquisition of Wigginton is that I don’t think you give this position a two year contract if you can at all help it. That said, I can see where Jeff’s coming from in tying him into Lopez as another die to roll for a chance that we get an Aubrey Huff like breakout. Unfortunately, neither Wigginton nor Lopez ever had single seasons as good as Huff’s peaks before San Fran, so I’m pretty doubtful it happens.
Still, I think it’s an okay addition for the 2011 team given that his expected role is a bit different from that of Lopez and it makes the team better than it was before we signed him, I just don’t like the two year commitment to a bench player.
I’m not wild about the length of the Wigginton contract either, but one thing it does do is cover the Rockies in the case of the worst-case Todd Helton scenario – his back gives out again this year, his swing completely leaves him, and he retires before the 2012 season. If Helton isn’t back in 2012 the Rockies don’t have to scramble for a replacement or promote somebody in-house who isn’t ready for a big league job – they can plug Wigginton in for a year if they have to.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
Please say the answer to this is 'no'
but I hope they did not do this because they are looking at dealing Stew. It just seems odd that they would give him 2 years and worries me that it is because they are trying to trade Stew for pitching.
"Whenever I see an old lady slip and fall on a wet sidewalk, my first instinct is to laugh. But then I think, what if I was an ant, and she fell on me. Then it wouldn't seem quite so funny."
Jack Handy quote
Ringolsby Tweeted yesterday in response to the rumors about Michael Young
that the Rockies aren’t looking to trade Stewart, and are “committed” to him at third this year.
So I’d say you don’t have to be too worried. Ringolsby usually knows what he’s talking about with this team, I think.
I think if the FO has shown anything in the last couple of years
it’s that they have a pretty tight grip on cheap ML ready prospects like Stewart. There’s no reason not to hold on to him and continue to explore his potential.
finding a viable first baseman on the FA market is never really a scramble
Even if you’re looking at the low end on the cost scale. Wigginton’s only an okay Helton replacement in cases of in season need, if this worst case did unfold, the Rockies would be much better off if they had that $4 million they’ve already committed to Wigginton in 2012 available for a player that could be a bigger plus at first.
Just for fun..
Who do you think the Rockies could get at 1B if we used the combined $7 million on a single player instead of Wigginton/Lopez?
@charliedrysdale
Konerko's right leg
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Still hates Tulo, but is quickly losing momentum.
Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
Derrek Lee, for one.
Lance Berkman signed for $8 million. Lyle Overbay. I think all three are better Helton replacements than Wigginton would be. I’m not sure who’s going to be available in next year’s FA class, but I’m guessing a similar number of quality players will be available.
Are they gearing up for a trade?
Maybe the Rox intend to pad their infield in preparation for trading one or two of them for something else they might need. In other words, they are not worried about the price, because they intend to exploit what they got a little later to enhance strength in another area — like pitching.
by Real Perspective on Dec 8, 2010 10:35 AM MST up reply actions
I see the same "Aubrey Huff" type moves here with Lopez and Wigginton
the main difference being, we don’t need to bank on a peak year from either one of these players the way the Giants needed Huff during the first half of 2010. We just need one of them to take to Coors and find their power stroke.
The season really depends on Stewart/Iannetta/Fowler imo. Anything we get from Lopez and Wigginton is just gravy.
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Still hates Tulo, but is quickly losing momentum.
Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
by Muzia on Dec 8, 2010 8:23 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
In a weird way...
I see the Lopez pick up as being the Giants’ Juan Uribe (minus versatility at short) and the Wigginton pick up as the Huff pick up. Now we need an old decrepit outfielder to fill the Burrell role and a pick up off the waivers, and we’re closer to the Giants.
Wish we had a Posey and a MadBum ready to be plugged in mid-season.
"Are they called the Rockies because they rock?" - 7 y.o.
Friedrich and Rosario ARE PurPs 2 and 3...
though mid-season may be pushing it for either with their injuries late last year.
Science! It means whatever you want it to!
by realmenwearpurple on Dec 8, 2010 12:52 PM MST up reply actions
Yeah, I thought they were more likely in 2012?
"Are they called the Rockies because they rock?" - 7 y.o.
Yeah, probably.
But they are a LH starter and a top catching prospect… this could work out nicely in 2012.
Science! It means whatever you want it to!
by realmenwearpurple on Dec 8, 2010 1:04 PM MST up reply actions
we only make the playoffs in odd number years, sorry
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Still hates Tulo, but is quickly losing momentum.
Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
Nuts! you are right. They will just have to prove themselves quickly this year
Science! It means whatever you want it to!
by realmenwearpurple on Dec 8, 2010 1:11 PM MST up reply actions
I think the size and length of the contract as well as the positioning of Wigginton by the Rockies as an "impact bat"
mean lots of playing time for Wigginton and a potential job.
Also, the poll was in no way meant to be serious. I’m sure that you knew that already.
The writer formerly known as Jabberwocky
READ and LEARN about the business of baseball at Purple Row Academy
Eschew Obfuscation!
Saw this in an article about Parker...
here.
Parker… is expected to start his pro career next spring with the Class A Asheville Tourists.
Could be a heck of a team in Ashville next season
"Don't be pushed by your problems. Be led by your dreams."
Wow, Jeff Passan really is a sniveling idiot (and typical YanksSawx lapdog)
First he says the Rockies’ extension of Tulo is “a big mistake”, because of the length, and the cost.
Next, he says (about the Werth contract), “that guaranteeing him riches through his 39th birthday isn’t the sort of gamble that comes with good odds.”
And NOW? Oh yeah ,he says “Giving Cliff Lee seven years is precisely the right thing to do.”
Because he’s already laying the groundwork to later praise the Yankees for stepping up to seven years. Goddamn his agenda is always so clear.
What a jagoff.
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
I'm really trying to figure out how he can write this article a week after the Tulo one.
Is he seriously trying to argue that Cliff Lee isn’t an injury risk (LAST YEAR would beg to differ), but Tulo’s one waiting to happen?
“And its not like advanced age and awful productivity go hand in hand.” Saying this regarding a contract that would end with Lee two years older than Tulo will be at the end of his “terrible” deal.
That’s a whole lot of hypocrisy.
Not trying to defend this guy
but it might be that he was not happy about the Tulo deal because he was already under contract and these guys are not. I still disagree with him, but that is a major point for many opponents of the Tulo deal.
"Whenever I see an old lady slip and fall on a wet sidewalk, my first instinct is to laugh. But then I think, what if I was an ant, and she fell on me. Then it wouldn't seem quite so funny."
Jack Handy quote
No, he wasn't happy with the Tulo contract because it meant Tulo wouldn't be a Yankee or RedSox circa 2014
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
Here's what he said
The Rockies ignored that rule again, indulging in the prototypical shortstop: amazing with bat and glove, a born leader, the sort over whom the New York Yankees and Boston Red Sox and every other team with pockets deep and shallow would swoon. By turning down the opportunity to hit free agency after 2014, Tulowitzki potentially left millions of dollars on the table.
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
i am never sold on
giving pitchers long term deals, to much can go wrong. Tulo can be moved to 3rd if his range leaves him and still be effective, but if Lee blows his arm out that’s trouble.
I don't disagree
and I personally am super excited that we locked up Tulo, but I bet if he had to defend his hypocrisy, he would say he didn’t like the Tulo deal because he was already under contract to the Rox and they should let things play out before re-signing him.
"Whenever I see an old lady slip and fall on a wet sidewalk, my first instinct is to laugh. But then I think, what if I was an ant, and she fell on me. Then it wouldn't seem quite so funny."
Jack Handy quote
I think the Rockies front office
is scared of another Holliday thing, the waited to lock him up and he decided to test the market, they got great return for him but lost a key player, they didn’t want that happening to Tulo so they locked him up early, just a theory.
Considering the return we got,
I’m not sure how “scared” the FO should be of another Holliday issue.
In fact, that’s where I see them going with CarGo in a couple of years. He could net an absolutely massive haul if we have to trade him.
i agree with the Cargo thing
with Boras as his agent we will never get a hometown discount or extension past team controlled years so an eventual trade is probably 90%, but Tulo is different, he is homegrown talent and the face of the team as well as the main marketing piece.
Completely agreed.
I think the Rockies’ most likely outcome is keeping 2 of the big 3 anyways, and if it came down to CarGo vs. Tulo, there’s really no question that you stick with Tulo long term and trade CarGo.
Really? "No question"?
I’d question that heavily. Cargo’s younger and (at least last year) better offensively. Can’t go back any farther because Cargo hadn’t figured it out yet. Yes, T plays a more valuable position, but most people figure he’s destined for 3B eventually (wrong body type for SS).
Rockies have to be careful to not encourage whisper campaigns (more likely in other clubhouses but that affects FA’s) that we take care of our white stars but not the Latinos. Not saying it’s remotely true, but it wasn’t true in Boston either and they had to overpay for years to get Latin players to consider them.
by BostonTransplant on Dec 8, 2010 9:01 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
I disagree with BostonTransplant's premise in this case,
but the idea that NL West teams use the press and clubhouse propaganda to smear rivals shouldn’t be that far fetched given what the Rockies have dealt with over the last few seasons. The humidor, the Jesus team, etc… It’s pretty clear that the Giants in particular play these types of games with their media.
Well, Latin America is known for being more religious than Canada and the US.
So that may have helped.
I don't know about either of those points
1) Wrong body type? Cal Ripken was 6’4"/225 and played SS until he was… 36. By most accounts, he was still pretty good well into his 30s.
Tulo is 6’3"/215, and athletes are probably better trained now than when Ripken broke in. “Most people” that I’ve read (specifically, commenters here) think he’s headed for third after the contract extension is up.
2) I doubt there would be a ripple effect from letting a Scott Boras client be traded or walk, no matter his race. The Rockies have an extremely good pipeline into Latin America (Chacin, Ubaldo, Morales). Not to mention, they took care of DLR pretty well. I have no idea about their reputation in those circles, but whatever happens with Cargo isn’t going to affect that pipeline.
By that logic, the A’s should be shunned by Latinos because they give up on young Latin players too easily (Cargo) and don’t pay star Latino players (Tejada). Eric Chavez, the player the A’s chose to extend, was born in LA (and ask Torii Hunter if there’s a difference between what you claim as your race and where you were born).
Again, not saying it's true
But when you have three superstar level players, and two are Latino, and they’re all entering their primes, and somehow it’s the white evangelical Christian dude who is promoted to “face of the franchise,” people start talking. That term (“face of the franchise”) is really loaded, btw. Because Tulo’s face is a different shade than Cargo and Ubaldo.
I’ve been around the blocks many times. These things are noticed. I think Tulo is one the best players in baseball, and I think our FO and ownership are pretty fair. But I also think Cargo and Ubaldo are just as good and I do know something about how people tend to see things in racial terms.
Just sayin’
by BostonTransplant on Dec 8, 2010 9:41 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
elite shortstop is also a better player to extend long-term than a starting pitcher who throws 95mph+ or a slugging heavy center fielder
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Still hates Tulo, but is quickly losing momentum.
Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
I think you'd have to be hunting pretty subjectively for an agenda to take anything racially negative out of the extension of Tulo
The Rockies have a fantastic core group of Latino players, all of whom seem to love the club. The black players at the club also seem really happy and positive.
IF there were whispering campaigns, they would doubtless reflect worse on their originators than on the Rockies, who have ample evidence to prove any allegations false.
by biondino on Dec 8, 2010 9:50 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Most evidence of "whispering campaigns" of any sort
comes from unsourced allegations from individuals who aren’t part of the population subject to such allegations.
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
CarGo also played for 3 teams in 3 years..
so it’s difficult to say he should be the face of a franchise.
Also with the range Tulo has he should be able to play SS well into his 30’s. Only Stephen Drew made more OOZ plays in the past two years than Tulo in the NL, and Drew had more errors in that time frame!
@charliedrysdale
Oh, BS
“people start talking”
Really? You’re the only person I’ve ever seen even make this reference, either in print, or in person. You’re trying to transfer your assumptions onto others as fact. Sorry, but just because you say it’s happening doesn’t make it so.
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
by Mondogarage on Dec 8, 2010 9:51 AM MST up reply actions 2 recs
I don't entirely disagree with what you are saying, but I think in Tulo's case it is different.
I think Tulo was tabbed from the day he was drafted to potentially be the next face of the franchise. His skills, demeanor or leadership qualities have been long recognized. He’s made it clear he wants to stay with the Rockies. It just happened to land that way.
Holliday could have become the face but it seemed that he was intent on garnering a bigger contract. I seriously do not think nor do I think most people in the league find this to be a racially or religiously motivated signing.
If CarGo continues on his path, he’s going to be the best player in baseball for many years. And will be the co-face of the franchise if he opts to stay here. Along with Ubaldo…
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
by SDcat09 on Dec 8, 2010 9:59 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Who says Tulo is an Evangelical Christian?
Did he stop you on the street one day with a copy of the New Testament?
How about taking care of DLR? How about Apodaca working with him, and the Rockies paying him big money for performing well?
And what Muzia said:
elite shortstop is also a better player to extend long-term than a starting pitcher who throws 95mph+ or a slugging heavy center fielder
You’re not talking about locking up Clint Barmes for 10 years; it’s Tulowitzki, who has a longer and better track record than Cargo.
well, he's been active in the Rockies' Faith Days
and professed Christianity, so there’s that.
by Andrew Martin on Dec 8, 2010 10:31 AM MST up reply actions
Right, but that doesn't necessarily connote evangelistic Christian
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
Is the term "Tulo" going to equate to a new religion?
I guess they could have Sunday School at Coors before the games.
by Real Perspective on Dec 8, 2010 10:38 AM MST up reply actions
a third of this blog has already converted
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Still hates Tulo, but is quickly losing momentum.
Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
the best part about this reply
is that 2 comments were sarcastic, and 1 was “Tulo is a religion”
1/3!
by Andrew Martin on Dec 8, 2010 10:42 AM MST up reply actions
I'm a stat wizard!
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Still hates Tulo, but is quickly losing momentum.
Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
Tulo already is a religion..
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
That reminds me of a nickname I came up with last nigth
Tenyearwitzki
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
Tenawitzki....that way you keep the letter count the same
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
huh?
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
wouldn't that be teenawitzki?
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
that woudl be a teenamarieski
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
oh lordyitzky
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
tweenawitzki?
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
tweenabieberski
wearanearplugski
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
This is what I was driving at
I’m not an expert or anything, but I think Evangelical Christian is a pretty specific specific term. It’s one I haven’t seen associated with Tulo, and I don’t think it’s meant to be conflated with the idea of an (lower case) evangelical Christian or an evangelical. The three can mean very different things.
Yeah, to be clear in light of below,
not trying to run anybody or any sect down.
College in the south gave me a great, and previously unknown, appreciation for the traditions/beliefs of non-Catholic denominations.
cool
I didn’t take offense, let’s let this one die
by Andrew Martin on Dec 8, 2010 11:19 AM MST up reply actions
The Rockies are making every effort to sign CarGo to a similar deal as we speak.
It’s been widely reported and people know it. And discrimination toward Ubaldo is the same kind of discrimination the team has toward all pitchers. They didn’t go to Tulo first because he was white, but because he had the same agents as a Mexican pitcher they were also talking to at the time. It probably came up and when both sides found they were close, it became serious.
Wow, this is pretty cowardly
If you’re going to accuse the Rockies of being racist it would have been better if you just had the balls to come out and say it with data to back it up instead of doling out the “I think our FO and ownership are pretty fair but…….” passive aggressive crap seen here.
Do me a favor. Take a gander at the white evangelical Christian dude’s numbers and compare them to other players who man his position around the league. Then do the same thing with Cargo and Ubaldo while taking into account how long they have done it for, how risky it is to sign a pitcher long term, and the agent who represents Cargo and maybe then you will understand why the Rockies signed Tulo long term.
If you believe the Rockies gave Tulo that contract instead of Ubaldo or Cargo because he’s white, either come out and say it with a mountain of data to support your accusation, or just shut up. I have zero tolerance for this type of garbage!!!!!
114 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 8, 2010 11:36 AM MST up reply actions 5 recs
rirfsuperrageface.jpg
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
Wow
To even go about something like favoring white athletes over latino athletes is idiotic.
Who cares how many blocks you’ve been around and what you’ve heard. Quit turning something like signing an extension into this big ethical debate. It’s baseball for heaven’s sake!
And to be honest, if you asked anyone in Denver who there favorite Rockies player was I bet 3 out of 5 would say Tulowitzki. Two years from now if you ask someone who there favorite player is it very easily could be Cargo if he maintains last years performance.
Jeez, this is why I hate opinions.
Just saying
But can we really expect a utility guy to be a gold glove defender? Thats all I hear everytime a potential Rockie comes up, “his defense is subpar”, he is not a good defender. Well typically a utility guy is a Man of Many Trades but a Master of None. Its probably pretty tough to be a great above average defender when you play a different position every 2-3 days. I think its pretty easy to just nag on a guy with all these sabermetrics that point to below average defense. Well do sabermetrics account for him being able to come off the bench when one of our 6 guys gets hurt in the 7th inning and he can actually make a play at that position? I think its understated when a guy who does have some pop in his bat can also play like 5 positions if need be.
exhale vent done
You know what? I can already tell that I don't like you. And I'm probably not gonna like you no matter how many pull-ups or push-ups you do. All right, anybody who wants to pick on anybody in class, aim for him, 'cause I'm not watchin'
Clint Barmes could do it
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 8, 2010 8:05 AM MST up reply actions
Adam Kennedy?
Barmes hit 8 HR’s last year and was also set to make like 3 mil or something this coming year
You know what? I can already tell that I don't like you. And I'm probably not gonna like you no matter how many pull-ups or push-ups you do. All right, anybody who wants to pick on anybody in class, aim for him, 'cause I'm not watchin'
by waterboy31321 on Dec 8, 2010 8:13 AM MST up reply actions
That was the joke
The writer formerly known as Jabberwocky
READ and LEARN about the business of baseball at Purple Row Academy
Eschew Obfuscation!
Buster Olney tweeted
“Heard this: It was the Rockies who took the Michael Young conversations to the Rangers, not vice versa.”
Are we actually interested in getting Young?
yes, he'd represent an upgrade at second.
Colorado has long thought he’d be an ideal fit at Coors and in the NL West. Making the deal work would have depended on how much salary the Rangers were going to eat. The Rockies likely would have been attempting to flip Lopez in the trade. When it came out from Ringolsby that they were talking after Young became available, I assumed it was the Rockies that initiated said conversation.
I read that Rangers would eat a little of the salary
this isn’t likely is it, but I would love to have Young.
yeah, that "little" word is what made it unlikely to ever happen.
I think the Rockies were just checking in if they were desperate to clear a player for cheap. Motivated sellers are easy marks.
yikes
$13 million bones
You know what? I can already tell that I don't like you. And I'm probably not gonna like you no matter how many pull-ups or push-ups you do. All right, anybody who wants to pick on anybody in class, aim for him, 'cause I'm not watchin'
by waterboy31321 on Dec 8, 2010 8:52 AM MST up reply actions
Is Young really a full time 2B?
Especially at this point in his career? He’s been playing 3B for several years now, after moving off of SS. I guess at this stage in his career I have a hard time seeing him making the move back to the middle infield on a full-time basis…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
Bazinga!!
SD Cat 09 is still awesome
by Junction Rox on Dec 8, 2010 11:29 AM MST up reply actions
Steve Henson reported on numbers behind Russell Martin's Dodger departure...
stevehenson333
The numbers behind Martin’s Dodger departure. He was offered $4.2M with $1.5-1.7M in incentives. He wanted $5.5M.
It looks like he will definitely end up on the East Coast (most likely Boston from the sounds of it).
Most importantly
It shows the Rockies are not done yet, and will still make moves despite what looks like a full roster.
if you are refering to Young talks
I’m afraid Rox Girl might be right, if they can pull off something cheap, that is an upgrade, I think they will make a deal. I doubt that they are truly serious though about going after someone like Young.
when his name was floated aroudn yesterday, I thought it was a non issue
but after they started talking last night, I began to drool at the thought of an above league average bat at 2B. Now I want one.
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Still hates Tulo, but is quickly losing momentum.
Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
Actually, he uses a foam hand
Totalzone has never had him as a plus defender at any position; -11 and -19 at 3rd the last two years. He hasn’t played 2B since 2003, when he rated -12. UZR backs up his not being good, including at SS and 2B, although it thinks he’s slightly better than TZ.
I'm curious how much having Andrus to his left effects that.
I’m not saying it’s going to flip him into a good fielder suddenly, but if MLB defense works like most of the rest of the world’s workforce environments, you’ll have situations where an especially proficient player takes some of the workload that would otherwise be taken by a nearby less proficient player if the overachiever wasn’t there. That said, defense ratings weren’t especially kind to Andrus this year, but he would fit the model of a guy that takes up more slack than might be necessary.
It’s interesting that Andrus’ range rating declined significantly, and Young’s only improved a bit. That’s not encouraging for their pitchers. I’m not sure what the means for how Young would look on either side of Tulo, but it’s not encouraging to me that, apparently given room to roam this past year, he didn’t excel at it (I certainly could be reading into those numbers the wrong way).
I wouldn’t hate the acquisition (especially if it was some variation of a Cook-Young swap, and Francis was re-signed, but that’s some serious dreaming).
Isn't this the time of year for serious dreaming though.
With a touch of reality to make sure we don’t drift too far.
Well, I remember this about Young at 2B.
He was a 1 defensively in Strat. I know, because I teamed him up with Miguel Tejada for the best defensive infield in our league that year.
I am concerned though with Young not having played 2B since then. But I would still take his bat and his glove over just Uggla’s bat.
even for the next three years?
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Still hates Tulo, but is quickly losing momentum.
Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
Young doesn't have a glove, not for most of the last decade
His defense at SS was abysmal by the time he moved to third, his defense at third was bad in his first year, and it was still bad this year.
Not only is his defense less valuable, but he’s only getting older, doesn’t have nearly the bat that Uggla has, and is under an expensive contract for the next three years.
I’m not advocating for getting in our Time Machine Delorean and trading for Uggla, but I can’t abide by the idea that Young is more valuable than Uggla.
That deal still bugs me
Uggla likes the braves and they are talking about signing an extension.
getting wiggy with it
nanananananana nananannana getting wiggy with it
LETS GO RED WINGS!
2011 will be the year....better be....
Troy Tulowitzki: "When people think of the Rockies, I want them to think of a winning organization."
Why does Lopez seem to be the lock for 2B?
It seems to me that what the Rox need more than anything is solid defending high OBP type of player who can hit lead off or 2nd. We need more of a table setter than Lopez offensively. I think Nelson fits that role much better than Lopez and will play a better second base. What am I missing here?
You're missing any kind of certainty.
You’re possibly correct about Nelson, but as I was arguing yesterday with regard to an Adam Everett signing, the range of expectations for players just entering the league should be kept wide open. For players that have been around for awhile, like Lopez, your range of expectations is going to be a lot smaller.
To put Rox Girl's point in numbers:
Range of expectations (one a 1 – 10 scale):
Jose Lopez: 4 to 5
Chris Nelson: 2 to 7
Adam Everett: -11 to -10
There’s just less variance in the more established players.
I know you're goading me,
but on a runs over (or under) replacement scale, my list would actually look something like this:
Lopez: 15 to 30
Nelson: -15 to 40
Everett: -15 to 0
Herrera: -25 to 20
Young: -25 to 15
I was, though I wouldn't disagree with your breakdown
Except, of course, to say that if Everett made it to the majors as a util player, his ability to go negative is probably worse than -15. I guess (hope!?) he really wouldn’t make it as a utility guy though, just as the third string emergency SS replacement.
If we could have just arbitrarily assigned number ranges to our thoughts yesterday, we could have saved thousands of bytes.
For a second, I thought you were being ridiculously pessimistic to Michael Young
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 8, 2010 10:27 AM MST up reply actions
Lol
Does bring up the point what is Michael Youngs range, since the rumor refuses to die
by Chacinisthefuture on Dec 8, 2010 10:28 AM MST up reply actions
So How much is it really worth to upgrade from...
…Lopez to Young? Doesn’t seem worth the increase in salary
by Chacinisthefuture on Dec 8, 2010 10:33 AM MST up reply actions
I'm probably being a bit conservative on Young.
or perhaps not conservative enough on Lopez. That said, even if I’m right and this is just a win or so, the Rockies are in a win range where marginal improvement is extremely valuable. It makes a lot more sense for them to extend themselves for an extra win or two than it does other teams.
True but would we gain that win or two more easier by focusing that money
into another good reliever and backup catcher maybe?
by Chacinisthefuture on Dec 8, 2010 11:11 AM MST up reply actions
Wow I just read that and I am embarrassed by the grammar
Got distracted halfway through I guess
by Chacinisthefuture on Dec 8, 2010 11:12 AM MST up reply actions
honestly, I don't think so.
because I don’t think it should cost that kind of money to find upgrades at those positions, and second because they don’t play enough to have the kind of impact over a full season a starter would.
I can see this
So we’re looking at our performance at 2nd base as maybe being the most important factor in how we place and upgrading from Lopez/Wigginton/whoever to M. Young is worth the cost
by Chacinisthefuture on Dec 8, 2010 11:53 AM MST up reply actions
If the team were willing to do this I would think yes.
But then again I’ve always had an unhealthy affinity for Young, probably based on my reliance on him for two years in Strat.
Yeah I have to admit I like the guys as well
Due to years of him being an awesome stud for my fantasy baseball teams.
by Chacinisthefuture on Dec 8, 2010 12:17 PM MST up reply actions
yeah I agree
my only reasoning for preferring Nelson is that we do know what to expect from Lopez and that’s below average-average defense and no more than .310 OBP. That wouldn’t even be so bad if the lineup made up for it elsewhere with a higher OBP player but it really doesn’t.
then again, he's only 27 and used to be a plus offensive player, at Safeco Field
I am as big of a Nelson supporter as you will find, but I am coming around on Lopez having much more potential than he showed in 2010
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Still hates Tulo, but is quickly losing momentum.
Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
Have to say I am on the Lopez potential bandwagon
Decent numbers for Safeco combined with what Beltre did in Boston. Any idea how Lopez’s numbers would translate to with the move (Safeco to Coors)?
"Don't be pushed by your problems. Be led by your dreams."
If Wishes were Horses
Beggars would Ride
by Andrew Martin on Dec 8, 2010 10:35 AM MST up reply actions
Is the Young trade still alive, or did those talks spawn another potential trade with the Rangers?
TracyRingolsby
Rangers are making inquiries about makeup of Rockies minor leagiers
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 8, 2010 10:08 AM MST reply actions
Alan Johnson for Neftali Feliz.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
Oh, my bad, I meant…
RUMOR: Alan Johnson for Neftali Feliz.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
Man, if this goes down we'd better make Feliz a starter.
I’m not okay with giving up our biggest trade chip for a relief pitcher.
SOURCE: The darkest recesses of Alan Johnson's Twisted Mind
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
Interesting. Renck said the trade died last night.
Who else on the Rangers would we want to trade for? Somebody in their bullpen?
I really don't get this.
Are the Rangers really willing to shell out $5M for the next three years just so they can sign Beltre at 5/70?
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Still hates Tulo, but is quickly losing momentum.
Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
yesterday afternoon? completely against it
last night, when there were actual discussions going on? I’d be okay with it.
We’d have an above average bat at 2B for the first time since Terry Shumpert in 1999. The guy kills fastballs, and his BABIP was incredibly low last year, yet he was still a 105 wRC+ player. He doesn’t strike out tooo much.
If we are willing to pay 10M of his deal for the next three years, I’d be okay with it. We really don’t have a prospect banging down the door, and our hopes rest on Nelson and Gomez (maybe). The guy would more than pay for himself.
Prospect cost? I could see giving up two Purps from #7 and below for him, and I’d probably be okay with that.
There. I’ve talked myself into it.
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Still hates Tulo, but is quickly losing momentum.
Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
Would we package Lopez in the deal too?
Otherwise we’re really getting veteran heavy in our If and it doesn’t leave any spots for the 3 young guys unless some assortment of them are in the deal as well.
by Chacinisthefuture on Dec 8, 2010 10:26 AM MST up reply actions
Which then makes the wigginton signing make more sense as well.
by Chacinisthefuture on Dec 8, 2010 10:27 AM MST up reply actions
Also, not sure how true this is or not, but...
….last night’s tweet activity on this indicated that the Rangers weren’t actually looking for top prospects or front line young major league players, so the kinda guys we would not include…wouldn’t have to be included.
Seemed more like they wanted partial salary relief to upgrade their team in other areas.
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
Yeah and giving them Lopez..
… fills in some way the position that a Young trade would open and save them 10 millions roughly in salary unless they ate part of that too.
by Chacinisthefuture on Dec 8, 2010 10:32 AM MST up reply actions
there's no way they take back Lopez in any deal
this is all pipe dream anyway, but they don’t have the space for him, or his contract.
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Still hates Tulo, but is quickly losing momentum.
Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
And also the roster spot
Otherwise our IF consists of a Helton at 1B, Young at 2B (could play 3B) Tulo at SS Stewart at 3B (Has played 2B) and our two bench players Who can play at 1B, 2B and 3B kind of short on people who can play SS. Though I will concede I don’t see this trade happening at all unless they get really desperate to slash payroll
by Chacinisthefuture on Dec 8, 2010 11:33 AM MST up reply actions
Quick Question
Just curious since Wigginton and Lopez are definitely not going to be backing Tulo up at SS, How do Herrera and Nelson profile as backing up short?
by Chacinisthefuture on Dec 8, 2010 10:31 AM MST reply actions
Gomez is talented, just incredibly unreliable due to his injury history
If we’re counting on him even for a AAA back-up, we might be counting on too much.
I'm having a hard time answering that.
Both are legitimate question marks. It’s not that he’s a terrible defender, it’s just that the MLB is another league, and his defensive shortcomings would get magnified. That said, the offense is about as big a question mark. I’d say he easily has more offensive upside than defensive, but the downside is probably similar on both.
So to be clear..
As it stands right now, we don’t really have a viable back-up SS?
by Chacinisthefuture on Dec 8, 2010 11:20 AM MST up reply actions
So long as its not for an extended period of time.
In which case we’re probably in bad shape regardless.
Herrera's okay. The issue is that in an extended period you'd want Herrera and somebody else
Having to rely on just one player is what makes those -25 run seasons possible because you’re in a trap you can’t get out of. Everett’s the safety. I know people don’t like him, but the chances of both him and Herrera being major holes at the same time are a lot less than the chances of either being one individually.
Any timetablez on when EY2 will learn the OF?
_
Colorado would need to either give Cole Garner a shot in the OF, (or) move EY2 there, or..
@charliedrysdale
when he'll actually know it, or when they'll keep giving him reps?
by Andrew Martin on Dec 8, 2010 10:43 AM MST up reply actions
Well Jeff makes it sound like he's never played OF before..
which he’s right, sort of. I think some fielders should get their own walk-out music like hitters do.
@charliedrysdale
EY actually seemed to get a little bit better in the outfield. But then again, it seemed like he got worse at 2B, so I dunno, could be sample size.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
He had a couple of nice plays at 2B..
like that behind the back glove flip to first base. But then other times he looks lost.
@charliedrysdale
it seems to me like Cole Garner is gonna be give a shot
i’m not really sure we’d make EY2 the 5th OF. it seems to me we’d rather use him at 2B or just trade him to some team that loves speed (almost) as much as we do
by black_knight101 on Dec 8, 2010 11:27 AM MST up reply actions
Right now the roster on the Rockies website
lists EY2 as on OF, for whatever that’s worth. It seems inevitable to me that he’s at least going to be given a shot there. Especially given the number of other options they’ve put together for 2B…
As for Garner, that seems like good news for Franchise26, since we learned yesterday that 26 has a better shot at making the team than Garner. I, for one, can’t wait for the daily FanPosts from ST tracking his progress… :=)
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
Bazinga!!
SD Cat 09 is still awesome
by Junction Rox on Dec 8, 2010 11:35 AM MST up reply actions
Someone decided to make a list of the Top 2000 prospects in baseball.
My boy Arenado is the top COL prospect, listed at #37.
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Still hates Tulo, but is quickly losing momentum.
Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
Top 2000?!?!?
Did they include Pony Leaguers?
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
Isn't it a little late to list Chapman as a prospect?
He has Chad Bettis listed pretty high (196), and I’ve never heard of 1B Mike Zuanich (1949), should I?
@charliedrysdale
We've mentioned Zuanich before, but never really notably
If you scoured the pebble reports I’m sure you’d find it.
by Andrew Martin on Dec 8, 2010 11:29 AM MST up reply actions
actually, sort of...
Tovar’s our big international signing for 2010. If things work out, we’ll probably be very excited about him in two years. He’s not a better prospect than Pacheco now, however.
Thanks!
I’m a little embarrassed now. Will her be in Casper next year or is he on a faster track, do you know?
he might be on a slower track and still be a name worth remembering
He’s probably slated for the DSL next summer, and Casper in 2012. This is why he’d be ranked lower on our prospect lists than Pacheco for the time being. That’s just a long way from the bigs.
Gosh, he's not even ready for Casper? (or, for a higher entry into the US farm system)
Is he being treated with kid gloves, or is he that raw?
It's typical, Ubaldo, Chacin, Campos, all our Latin prospects spend a summer
there when we sign them as 16 year olds like this. We treat them with kid gloves because that’s what they literally are.
I have a lot of trouble believing in the credibility of such a list
No-one can know – really know – that much. And when you see where they put Tim Wheeler, it’s clear that “draft position” is a big deciding factor and that’s just dumb.
That's kind of what I was hinting at in the ATF's Fanshot
somebody who makes a list this long is compensating for something.
by Rox Girl on Dec 8, 2010 11:27 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
compensating for his lack of a middle age Ferrari
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
Rockies #14 Delta Cleary.
I rest my case.
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Still hates Tulo, but is quickly losing momentum.
Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
I rest biondino's case.
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Still hates Tulo, but is quickly losing momentum.
Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
wow someone has too much time on their hands
by black_knight101 on Dec 8, 2010 11:25 AM MST up reply actions
I wish.
The writer formerly known as Jabberwocky
READ and LEARN about the business of baseball at Purple Row Academy
Eschew Obfuscation!
Matt Garrioch
took over SB Nation’s MLB Bonus Baby recently.
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SB Nation Denver - The regional hub for Denver sports!
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Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.
Wha, did all that discussion get removed or something?
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
huh...I thought it was a pretty fair and civil topic for the most part
disappointed…..
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
I see no comment ?
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
It got hid with the rest probably
AMart thought it had run its course and didn’t want it to get picked back up later by someone else and ran with who knows where
by Chacinisthefuture on Dec 8, 2010 11:46 AM MST up reply actions
also the point was that nobody was in trouble and we all HAD done a good job of being civil
but God knows what lurkly mclurkerson would’ve done as far as at least ATTEMPTING to adhere to our rules.
by Andrew Martin on Dec 8, 2010 11:54 AM MST up reply actions
Lurky McLurkerson...hahaha
Is that Josh McDaniels new job?
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
Great...
Thanks SDcat for launching a whole new O-T thread into Josh Mcd and his short-lived coaching endeavor. Just kidding… I hope…
by Chacinisthefuture on Dec 8, 2010 11:56 AM MST up reply actions
Ha....I was just making a play on the Mc...whatever thing..
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
I never saw it, but refreshed anyway
Now I need a Sprite or some kinda drink to match
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
Young deal not dead, just sleeping according to Renck.
Or something to that effect. It’s still unlikely, but it’s not going away, apparently.
coming off a world series loss
the Rangers might be on tilt. I wouldn’t be shocked to see them do something slightly irrational like this.
I can see them doing something irrational like this.
Plus he’d fit right in, he played for the Drillers at one point.
So I didn't see this but what do you all make of this: Boras discusses CarGo
http://blogs.denverpost.com/rockies/2010/12/08/boras-on-chances-of-cargo-signing-long-term/5259/
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
I love this quote
"I’m not going to discuss that because that would mean there is or isn’t something ongoing."
114 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 8, 2010 1:51 PM MST up reply actions
I laughed.
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
huh...
that obtuseness is actually a bit encouraging. Compare what he said about Carlos Gonzalez to what he says about Prince Fielder or Shin Soo Choo, where you get clearer signals about what’s going on. Cleveland can’t afford Choo, he pretty much says it flat out. Fielder’s looking at the A-Gon/Werth deals as models for an extension. Why would he avoid saying that here, other than a vague reference to the “market”? Why the emphasis on what Carlos wants as an individual, rather than the clear “this is what the market says a player like this is worth” speeches he gives elsewhere?
My guess is that the team’s close, in the ballpark with an offer, and that Gonzalez is seriously considering something. Boras doesn’t talk about what’s there, he talks about what’s not there.
That was kind of how I read it....but didn't want to get carried away, so I thought I would post it here
and see what other people thought. It made me feel hopeful as well.
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
I would be surprised if Boras sets a precedent by doing a Gonzalez deal
If he does set a precedent, I would wager any deal we see will make the Tulo extension look like a stone cold bargain. The only reason Boras would introduce this new variable into his vastly successful strategy is if it provided as good a way to maximise revenues as his current thinking.
If I had to guess, it may be that both sides have quoted a deal they would be happy with, but Boras isn’t seriously interested in the Rox offer, and the offer he himself has made is so high as to be untenable. The Rockies may feel they can negotiate this down to something acceptable, but I just can’t imagine how.
On a slightly different note, I think it’s much more important with Cargo to spend another year or two seeing just how good he is. Matching last season is a hard enough ask, and right now we could well be buying at the highest poissible point of his entire career, and I’m not happy with that prospect.
by contrast though
on the off chance he matches or blows us all away and out performs last year than the numbers go up exponentially. I think it’s safe to say that Cargo will be one of the premier players in the game for some years to come. I would feel good about offering the same type of deal Tulo got. He’s that good.
I'm not willing to make that declaration after one good season.
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Still hates Tulo, but is quickly losing momentum.
Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
Even if all the talk since he came into the league is that as a 5 tool player he had it all
and he’s now coming into his own?
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
I'm agreeing with you.
The talk on CarGo when he was drafted by the Dbacks and then even being traded to Oakland, was that he had EVERYTHING (5-tool) to be a profoundly excellent baseball player.
He just couldn’t get it together until now.
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
and I'm not comfortable declaring he "put it all together" after one year
see: Francouer, Jeff, 2005
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Still hates Tulo, but is quickly losing momentum.
Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
no comparison
Jeff Francoeur first full season: . 742 OPS, .9 WAR
Carlos Gonzalez first full season: .974 OPS, 6 WAR
Jeff Francoeur has never posted higher than .850 OPS in his career. (min 250 ABs)
Is that a .9 or 9 WAR
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
wow...that's quite different
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
Frenchie's 2005
provided 3.1 WAR in less than half a season. He posted 4.0 WAR in 2007 and was seen as a hometown hero and star in the making.
His first three seasons provided 8.0 WAR after 1600 PA
Cargo? 9.1 WAR in approximately 1300 PA
How is this not a fair comparison?
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Still hates Tulo, but is quickly losing momentum.
Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
extension of this argument:
both players have strong outfield arms, and their offensive value relies heavily on slugging with poor OBP to support it.
I’m not comfortable at all with a Cargo extension without a larger sample size (and history of success)
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Still hates Tulo, but is quickly losing momentum.
Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
false!
Cargo posted a .379 OBP last year
Francoeur has never been higher than .338
While that might be one of the areas we see Cargo regress in I think he will easily be higher than .338. I’m ok with that too. That will likely mean his slugging % goes up as a result. I’ve seen enough. Sign him!
Frenchy 2010: BB: 6.0% K: 17.8% BABIP: .270
Cargo 2010: BB: 6.3% K: 23% BABIP: .384
And this is supposed to convince me?
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Still hates Tulo, but is quickly losing momentum.
Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
I'm playing devil's advocate here
I know Cargo is a much better player than Francoeur. I know this.
But I’m making the argument that they profile similar and have provided similar value at the same points in their respective careers. It would be a mistake to extend Cargo to anything past arbitration at this point because we simply don’t know what kind of player he will develop into.
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Still hates Tulo, but is quickly losing momentum.
Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
At least until after this season
Nothing’s 100% guaranteed, but if 2011 is the same as 2010, then it’s a risk you can take with a fairly acceptable, or reasonable, degree of comfort.
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
come on
you’re being intellectually dishonest with yourself. You mean to tell me that at this point in there careers Frenchie and Cargo projected to be similar players? I don’t think you believe that. I know you are just backing up your point that we should wait, but there is no way you believe this do you?
after 2.5 seasons, there are quite a few similarities between the two players, yes
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Still hates Tulo, but is quickly losing momentum.
Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
It's still a pretty terrible comparison
Regression projections always should weigh the most recent performance heaviest, Francoeur’s and Gonzalez’s five year projections would look vastly different at the same 1300 PA point. I think your point, which I disagree with, btw, would be made stronger with a better example.
From a projection standpoint, I completely agree with you
these two players are very likely on different career paths.
I was simply trying to give an example of where using two seasons as evidence of a young players future greatness is a risky endeavor.
With Cargo, I really would like to see another year of evidence and some improvement in some noticeable flaws before moving towards a 4+ year commitment
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Still hates Tulo, but is quickly losing momentum.
Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
I don't think there is a better example though
who else at this point in their career projected the same as Cargo and then didn’t meet at least for the most part those projections.
Darryl Strawberry would be a good example
of a player who was a lot more valuable before his 27th birthday than he was after it. I realize that there were other factors at play, but he didn’t come close to where his early career projections were leading.
it's a helluva drug
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Still hates Tulo, but is quickly losing momentum.
Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
Other good examples can be found on CarGo's BB-ref page
His top ten similar batters through the age of 24:
1. Raul Mondesi
2. Danny Tartabull
3. Leon Durham
4. Kal Daniels
5. Dave Parker
6. Chick Hafey *
7. Fred Lynn
8. Jeff Heath
9. Carlos Lee
10. Vernon Wells
It’s a mixed list at best, that’s particularly ugly on the top. I definitely wouldn’t mind if we had the careers of several of these players, but I have a feeling we’d be signing Gonzalez as though the asterisk next to Hafey (indicating a HOF-er) was a bit more frequently seen on the page.
because he never put up anything even close
to what Cargo did last year. He can’t play Gold Glove center field and had some major holes in his game. Certainly was not a 5 tool player. Even if Cargo regresses he would probably only fall back to Francoeur’s best numbers.
oh right, now I see what you were saying
And really I don’t think we saw him at his best in some respects last year. He didn’t have Tulo protecting him all last year. Which means not only did he not get as many good pitches he also had less opportunities to use his speed on the bases which he would have if Tulo were up there throwing up some competitive ABs.
He was also placed in the lead off spot the first couple months of the year which wasn’t ideal.
There may also be a 6th tool in there somewhere. Opposing pitcher intimidation ability. Now that he can cover the outside slider or lay off of it, pitchers may be forced to chose the lesser of two evils with him and try to beat him inside.
I know it’s hard to conceive of but there’s plenty of chance that Cargo can out perform last year and if he does it will be tough to sign him in this market. If we do sign him based on the last year I think the worst case is that we’ve signed a 3.5-6 WAR player for 10 years.
amen brother
at least one more year of performance please before we put out a second mortgage on Coors Field for him
Bleed purple
Hmm what to make of this..
Seems like CarGo truly loves the Rockies. Who wouldn’t though. Lol, I think there are negotiations ongoing for less than what CarGo would make if he hit the market in 2014. But if he’s willing to compromise, a deal would get down and possibly sooner than we all think. I like this a lot. CarGo seems to have found it. I’m not too worried of a meltdown.
I'm GoRockies!! everybody :P
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 8, 2010 2:44 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Hmm what to make of this..
Seems like CarGo truly loves the Rockies. Who wouldn’t though. Lol, I think there are negotiations ongoing for less than what CarGo would make if he hit the market in 2014. But if he’s willing to compromise, a deal would get down and possibly sooner than we all think. I like this a lot. CarGo seems to have found it. I’m not too worried of a meltdown.
I'm GoRockies!! everybody :P
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 8, 2010 2:44 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
you can say that again...( and yes I get to make this joke...moreso than anyone!!)
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
I'm hoping to write about this later in the offseason if I ever get some free time.
The writer formerly known as Jabberwocky
READ and LEARN about the business of baseball at Purple Row Academy
Eschew Obfuscation!
I've had The Book chart for the entire game out before
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 9, 2010 7:35 AM MST up reply actions
Is anyone up for going to this?
FSNRM
#Rockies/@FSNRM fans, come to the Celtic Tavern tomorrow by 5 PM. Wear Rockies gear & participate in the Top of the Rockies Fan Choice show
Is it 2011 yet?
by The Lodo Magic Man on Dec 8, 2010 3:38 PM MST reply actions
I can't make it.
…but I re-tweeted it earlier to encourage others.
Ignorance of the American League is a sign of good moral character.
I used to be normal until I met these losers I now call my friends.
"Cheap tacos are rightous!"-My Daughter
ATF just retweeted something interesting
Saying the Rox, rangers and Marlins are in talks of a trade.
Doesn’t lindstrom play for the Marlins? I’d almost guarantee that’s who we’re trying to get.
I'm GoRockies!! everybody :P
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 8, 2010 3:46 PM MST via mobile reply actions
Wow, he plays for the Astros
Hmmm now I’m really curious..
I'm GoRockies!! everybody :P
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 8, 2010 3:47 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
I'd almost guarantee we're trying to get Young.
Florida would be where those added moving parts are coming from.
whoa.
JCRMarlinsbeat
Source: #Marlins nixed multi-player, three-team trade that would have sent Ricky Nolasco to the #Rockies.
Is it 2011 yet?
by The Lodo Magic Man on Dec 8, 2010 3:58 PM MST up reply actions
wait, what?
why would this have to be a 3 team trade then?
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Still hates Tulo, but is quickly losing momentum.
Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
Screw Nolasco...get me JJ ( kidding)
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
Rosenthal reporting that the third team was the Royals, and Florida is trying to trade for Greinke
WHOA
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Still hates Tulo, but is quickly losing momentum.
Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
this could also be a separate three team trade involving the Marlins.
Imagine trying to pull of multiple three-team trades at once.
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Still hates Tulo, but is quickly losing momentum.
Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
yeah, I'm thinking there are a couple different things going on here.
Sounds like one potential trade involved Rockies/Rangers/Marlins. The Royals things sounds like something that would have been instead of the other one.
reposting here
via Renck
There’s no deal Inv rox was just w odowd for an hour. He squashed it Saying where does this come From
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Still hates Tulo, but is quickly losing momentum.
Loves (and misses) Galiardi.
SB Nation Denver
Nolasco to Rox -> Young to Fish?
Is it 2011 yet?
by The Lodo Magic Man on Dec 8, 2010 4:00 PM MST up reply actions
Maybe we are sending Cook to the Rangers as a salary dump and getting another starter in return
114 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 8, 2010 8:11 PM MST up reply actions
part of this?
Ken_Rosenthal
Source: One of #Marlins’ attempted 3-team trades would have landed them Greinke. Talks still alive, but called “lukewarm.” MORE #Royals #MLB
Is it 2011 yet?
by The Lodo Magic Man on Dec 8, 2010 4:03 PM MST up reply actions
This is starting to make a lot more sense now
Rox and Rangers seemed like it wouldn’t fit as well but Rox, Marlins, Rangers have a lot more to offer each other.
tweet from Renck
So rox have interest in nunez but they are not in on nolasco. Young talks never got serious
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
watching MLB Tonight. Mitch Williams is drunk....
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
Mitch Williams is (insert negative description here)….
Is it 2011 yet?
by The Lodo Magic Man on Dec 8, 2010 4:50 PM MST up reply actions
HAHA
HAHAHA
He really is no good at his job.
I'm GoRockies!! everybody :P
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 8, 2010 4:50 PM MST up reply actions
He also wears loafers with no socks on set
Guess he couldn’t afford any.
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
If I was on a show where I was hidden by a desk and didn't have to move around, I doubt I would even bother with pants
Is it 2011 yet?
by The Lodo Magic Man on Dec 8, 2010 4:59 PM MST up reply actions
I think Mitch would agree, see below
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
When I saw it, they were in director's chairs out in the open from the meetings
TACK-Y.
All he needed was some Don Johnson pastels and a faux-Ferrari.
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Gints complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
He makes me laugh that's for sure
He was just discussing Cliff Lee. Greg Amsinger asked him…
“if you had 148 million six year offer on the table, would you sign it, right now”
He pauses,then says, “I’d sign it naked”
I thought Harold Reynolds and Amsinger were going to lose their minds. I have never seen Amsinger dead silent for like 10 seconds. And Reynolds was just beside himself laughing his ass off.
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
lol, well I wouldn't disagree with his analysis
Ubaldo "Iron Arm" Jimenez
Seth Smith’s beard looks on in anticipation.
Zomtober!!!
This makes me happy.
TroyRenck
Rockies plan on talking to Ubaldo about new deal after this upcoming season. He is under control through 2014 if club options picked up
Is it 2011 yet?
by The Lodo Magic Man on Dec 8, 2010 5:27 PM MST reply actions
From Renck:
Heard today that Rockies got a spike in season-ticket sales after the Tulo contract was announced.
Awesome.
Next summer
All I know is next summer I will visit Coors. It’s a must! Has the schedule come out yet?
this certainly helps confirm my theory that contracts to young superstars
add revenue beyond what we’ve extrapolated from a player’s win value to the team, but this fascinates me anyway. The Rockies were going to have Tulo next year regardless.
Giggity.
Boras open to hearing long-term offer for CarGo
Is it 2011 yet?
by The Lodo Magic Man on Dec 8, 2010 7:53 PM MST reply actions
Huh...not sure what to think about this part
“The team is offering me a guaranteed contract, without an option,” Gonzalez told Reina. “Either way, I’m going to be paid by that team or any other team, although we’re looking for a no-trade clause, because I’ve been [the] victim of two trades and it’s not easy to go from one organization to another. But we’re thinking things out, that’s why it’s taking so long — to hammer out the bonuses and that type of thing.”
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
Yeah, well,
Carlos: You were a young player who had yet to establish himself in the majors. Trades happen.
"No Mission Too Difficult, No Sacrifice Too Great—Duty First" - 1st Infantry Division Motto
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This reminds of some of the arrogance I thought he displayed when he first joined the Rockies
I sure hope he’s past all that
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
But calling himself a victim?
Is he even looking at where he is now? He just finished 3rd in NL MVP voting! That’s not being a victim.
"No Mission Too Difficult, No Sacrifice Too Great—Duty First" - 1st Infantry Division Motto
SB Nation Denver - The regional hub for Denver sports!
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
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