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Around SBN: Are The Orioles Bad Or Unlucky With Their Young Pitching?

OT: Historinerd Thread

Happy birthday, Muzia! Here's your present I promised you last night: the thread everyone's been waiting for since the beginning of the offseason. The one where we go all historical on everyone who chooses to participate. To start us off, here is a list of all the books I have read since 2007 (the list goes from recent to earliest):

Star-divide

Title Author
Secret of State: The State Department & the Struggle Over U.S. Foreign Policy Barry Rubin
Clinton's Secret Wars: The Evolution of a Commander in Chief Richard Sale
Uses of Force and Wilsonian Foreign Policy Frederick S. Calhoun
Elusive Quest: America's Pursuit of European Stability and French Security 1919-1933 Melvyn P. Leffler
Power and Principle: Armed Intervention in Wilsonian Foreign Policy Frederick S. Calhoun
D-Day 1944 (Modern War Studies) Theodore A. Wilson
Lincoln and the Decision for War: The Northern Response to Secession Russell A. McClintock
Bitter Victory: The Battle for Sicily 1943 Carlo D'Este
Wilson and His Peacemakers: American Diplomacy at the Paris Peace Conference 1919 Arthur Walworth
Paris 1919: Six Months That Changed the World Margaret Macmillan
Paths to Power: The Historiography of American Foreign Relations to 1941 Michael J. Hogan (ed.)
American Reparations to Germany 1919-33: Implications for the Third Stephen A. Schuker
The Last Years of the Monroe Doctrine 1945-1993 Gaddis Smith
Ideology and U.S. Foreign Policy Michael H. Hunt
John Quincy Adams and American Global Empire William Earl Weeks
War Without Mercy: Race and Power in the Pacific War John W. Dower
Closing With the Enemy: How GIs Fought the War in Europe 1944-1945 (Modern War Studies) Michael D. Doubler
Creating the Secret State: The Origins of the Central Intelligence Agency 1943-1947 David F. Rudgers
The CIA in Guatemala: The Foreign Policy of Intervention Richard H. Immerman
American Soldiers: Ground Combat in the World Wars Korea and Vietnam Peter S. Kindsvatter
The Policy Makers: Shaping American Foreign Policy from 1947 to the Present Anna Kasten Nelson
Warrior's Rage: The Great Tank Battle of 73 Easting Douglas A. Macgregor
Rumsfeld's Wars: The Arrogance of Power (Modern War Studies) Dale R. Herspring
Crossroads of Decision: The State Department and Foreign Policy 1933-1937 Howard Jablon
Quartermaster General of the Union Army: A Biography of M.C. Meigs Russell Frank Weigley
The Sword of the Republic: The United States Army on the Frontier 1783-1846 Francis Paul Prucha
The Muslim-Croat Civil War in Central Bosnia: A Military History 1992-1994 Charles R. Shrader
Secret Agencies: U.S. Intelligence in a Hostile World Loch K. Johnson
America's Army: Making the All-Volunteer Force Beth Bailey
West Pointers and the Civil War: The Old Army in War and Peace (Civil War America) Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
U. S. Grant: American Hero American Myth (Civil War America) Joan C. Waugh
Power and Purpose: U.S. Policy Toward Russian After the Cold War James M. Goldgeier
The New Military Humanism: Lessons from Kosovo Noam Chomsky
Armed Progressive: General Leonard Wood Jack C. Lane
Midnight Diaries Boris Yeltsin
A Question of Command: Counterinsurgency from the Civil War to Iraq Mark Moyar
The Road to Independence for Kosovo: A Chronicle of the Ahtisaari Plan Henry H. Perritt Jr.
Civilian in Peace Soldier in War: The Army National Guard 1636-2000 (Modern War Studies) Michael D. Doubler
Technology and the American Way of War Since 1945 Thomas G. Mahnken
Russia and the Balkans: Foreign Policy from Yeltsin to Putin James Headley
Madam Secretary: A Memoir Madeleine Albright
Learning to Eat Soup with a Knife: Counterinsurgency Lessons from Malaya and Vietnam John A. Nagl
Slobodan Milosevic and the Destruction of Yugoslavia Louis Sell
First Do No Harm: Humanitarian Intervention and the Destruction of Yugoslavia David N. Gibbs
Not Whether but When: The U.S. Decision to Enlarge NATO James M. Goldgeier
Just And Unjust Wars: A Moral Argument With Historical Illustrations Michael Walzer
Kosovo: War and Revenge Tim Judah
The Lessons and Non-Lessons of the Air and Missile Campaign in Kosovo Anthony H. Cordesman
Collision Course: NATO Russia and Kosovo John Norris
Soldiers and Scholars: The U.S. Army and the Uses of Military History 1865-1920 (Modern War Studies) Carol Reardon
The Eagle and the Lion: The Tragedy of American-Iranian Relations James A. Bill
In the Trenches at Petersburg: Field Fortifications and Confederate Defeat (Civil War America) Earl J. Hess
Field Armies and Fortifications in the Civil War: The Eastern Campaigns 1861-1864 (Civil War America) Earl J. Hess
Trench Warfare under Grant and Lee: Field Fortifications in the Overland Campaign (Civil War America) Earl J. Hess
The Antietam Campaign (Military Campaigns of the Civil War) Gary Gallagher (ed.)
NATO's Empty Victory Ted Galen Carpenter
The Art of Military Coercion: Why the West's Military Superiority Scarcely Matters Rob de Wijk
The Kosovo Crisis: The Last American War in Europe? Stanley Henig
Kosovo: How Myths and Truths Started a War Julie A. Mertus
Peace at Any Price: How the World Failed Kosovo (Crises in World Politics) Iain King
Second Chance: Three Presidents and the Crisis of American Superpower Zbigniew Brzezinski
The Foreign Policy Of Russia: Changing Systems Enduring Interests Robert H. Donaldson
The Psychological Impact of War Trauma on Civilians: An International Perspective Various
Postmodern War: The New Politics of Conflict Chris Hables Gray
The Legacy of George W. Bush's Foreign Policy: Moving beyond Neoconservatism Ilan Peleg
America Between the Wars: From 11/9 to 9/11 Derek Chollet
US Foreign Policy in the Twenty-First Century: Gulliver's Travails (Dilemmas in World Politics) J. Martin Rochester
The Limits of Power: The End of American Exceptionalism Andrew Bacevich
America in the World: The Historiography of US Foreign Relations since 1941 Michael J. Hogan (ed.)
The U.S. Marines and Amphibious War Jeter A. Isley
Kosovo Liberation Army: The Inside Story of an Insurgency Henry H. Perritt
Kosovo: What Everyone Needs to Know Tim Judah
Awkward Dominion: American Political Economic and Cultural Relations With Europe 1919-1933 Frank Costigliola
Lee and His Army in Confederate History (Civil War America) Gary W. Gallagher
How the States Got Their Shapes Mark Stein
Invasion of Japan: Alternative to the Bomb John Ray Skates
The Kosovo Conflict and International Law: An Analytical Documentation 1974-1999 Heike Krieger (ed.)
Curious Events in History Michael Powell
Tried by War: Abraham Lincoln as Commander in Chief James M. McPherson
NATO's Gamble: Combining Diplomacy and Airpower in the Kosovo Crisis 1998-1999 Dag Henriksen
Blitzkrieg to Desert Storm: The Evolution of Operational Warfare Robert M. Citino
NATO's Balkan Interventions Dana H. Allin
War Over Kosovo Andrew Bacevich (ed.)
The First World War Hew Strachan
Colossus: The Rise and Fall of the American Empire Niall Ferguson
That Noble Dream: The 'Objectivity Question' and the American Historical Profession (Ideas in Context) Peter Novick
The German Way of War: From the Thirty Years' War to the Third Reich (Modern War Studies) Robert M. Citino
Frontier Regulars: The United States Army and the Indian 1866-1891 Robert M. Utley
On War Carl von Clausewitz
The Road to Rainbow: Army Planning for Global War 1934-1940 Henry G. Gole
The Rifle Musket in Civil War Combat: Reality and Myth (Modern War Studies) Earl J. Hess
The Soviet-Afghan War: How a Superpower Fought and Lost Lester W. Grau and Michael A. Gress (eds.)
Black Southerners in Confederate Armies Someone
Fast Tanks and Heavy Bombers: Innovation in the U.S. Army 1917-1945 David E. Johnson
The Battle of Kursk David M. Glantz
Black Confederates and Afro-Yankees in Civil War Virginia Ervin L. Jordan Jr.
The Gray and the Black: The Confederate Debate on Emancipation Robert F. Durden
Battle Tactics of the Civil War (Yale Nota Bene) Paddy Griffith
Fighting for Defeat: Union Military Failure in the East 1861-1865 Michael C.C. Adams
This Republic of Suffering: Death and the American Civil War Drew Gilpin Faust
Race and Reunion: The Civil War in American Memory David W. Blight
Ornamentalism: How the British Saw Their Empire David Cannadine
Drawn with the Sword: Reflections on the American Civil War James M. McPherson
Upon the Altar of the Nation: A Moral History of the Civil War Harry S. Stout
This Terrible Sound: THE BATTLE OF CHICKAMAUGA Peter Cozzens
The Philippine War 1899-1902 (Modern War Studies) Brian McAllister Linn
The Korean War William Stueck
Dereliction of Duty: Johnson McNamara the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the Lies That Led to Vietnam H. R. McMaster
The New American Militarism: How Americans Are Seduced by War Andrew J. Bacevich
Eisenhower's Lieutenants: The Campaign of France and Germany 1944-1945 Russell F. Weigley
A Great Civil War: A Military and Political History 1861-1865 Russell F. Weigley
Gettysburg Stephen W. Sears
The Ideology of the Offensive: Military Decision Making and the Disasters of 1914 Jack L. Snyder
Crossing the Deadly Ground: United States Army Tactics 1865-1899 Perry D. Jamieson
Civil War Leadership and Mexican War Experience Kevin Dougherty
Confederates in the Attic: Dispatches from the Unfinished Civil War Tony Horwitz
From Cape Charles to Cape Fear: The North Atlantic Blockading Squadron during the Civil War (Fire Ant) Robert Browning Jr
The Roots of Blitzkrieg: Hans von Seeckt and German Military Reform James S. Corum
The Echo of Battle: The Army's Way of War Brian McAllister Linn
War Plan Orange: The U.S. Strategy to Defeat Japan 1897-1945 Edward S. Miller
World History of Warfare (Tactics & Strategies) Christon I. Archer
Reconstruction: America's Unfinished Revolution 1863-1877 Eric Foner
Confederate Emancipation: Southern Plans to Free and Arm Slaves during the Civil War Bruce Levine
Lee Considered: General Robert E. Lee and Civil War History Alan T. Nolan
Fort Pillow A Civil War Massacre And Public Memory John Cimprich
Cities of the Dead: Contesting the Memory of the Civil War in the South 1865-1914 (Civil War America) William Blair
Battle Cry of Freedom: The Civil War Era (Oxford History of the United States) James M. McPherson
The Hard Hand of War Mark Grimsley
The War I Always Wanted: The Illusion of Glory and the Reality of War Brandon Friedman
The War of 1812: A FORGOTTEN CONFLICT Donald R. Hickey
The GI Offensive in Europe: The Triumph of American Infantry Divisions 1941-1945 (Modern War Studies) Peter R. Mansoor
Virtual War: Kosovo and Beyond Michael Ignatieff
The Peace of Illusions: American Grand Strategy from 1940 to the Present Christopher Layne
Women in the Third Reich (Arnold Publication) Matthew Stibbe
Reluctant Crusaders: Power Culture and Change in American Grand Strategy Colin Dueck
A Problem from Hell: America and the Age of Genocide Samantha Power
1943: THE VICTORY THAT NEVER WAS John Grigg
Winning Ugly: Nato's War to Save Kosovo Ivo H. Daalder
Alexander of Macedon 356-323 B.C.: A Historical Biography Peter Green
O'er the Land of the Free Samuel Lombardo
Chancellorsville Stephen W. Sears
Getting to Dayton: The Making of America's Bosnia Policy Ivo H. Daalder
Alexander The Great: The Invisible Enemy John Maxwell O'Brien
Nazi Seizure of Power: The Experience of a Single German Town 1922-1945 William Allen
The Nature of Alexander Mary Renault
Quest for Decisive Victory: From Stalemate to Blitzkrieg in Europe 1899-1940 Robert M. Citino
Alexander The Great J.R. Hamilton
To End All Wars: Woodrow Wilson and the Quest for a New World Order Thomas J. Knock
The World Is Flat [Updated and Expanded]: A Brief History of the Twenty-first Century Thomas L. Friedman
Inside Delta Force: The Story of America's Elite Counterterrorist Unit Eric Haney
The True Believer: Thoughts on the Nature of Mass Movements (Perennial Classics) Eric Hoffer
Manifest Destiny: American Expansion and the Empire of Right (Critical Issue Book) Anders Stephanson
15 Stars: Eisenhower MacArthur Marshall: Three Generals Who Saved the American Century Stanley Weintraub
The Cold War Era (Problems in American History) Fraser J. Harbutt
Henry Cabot Lodge and the Search for an American Foreign Policy William C. Widenor
War Is a Racket: The Anti-War Classic by America's Most Decorated General Smedley D. Butler
The Utility of Force: The Art of War in the Modern World Rupert Smith
Lincoln and Chief Justice Taney: Slavery Secession and the President's War Powers James F. Simon
Calendar: Humanity's Epic Struggle to Determine a True and Accurate Year David Ewing Duncan
Pickett's Charge in History and Memory Carol Reardon
The One Percent Doctrine: Deep Inside America's Pursuit of Its Enemies Since 9/11 Ron Suskind
Cobra II: The Inside Story of the Invasion and Occupation of Iraq Michael R. Gordon
Fiasco: The American Military Adventure in Iraq Thomas E. Ricks
The Jugurthine War / The Conspiracy of Catiline Sallust
The Rise of the Roman Empire Polybius
Lives of the Later Caesars A. Birley (Introduction Translator)
On War (Oxford World's Classics) Carl von Clausewitz
Khubilai Khan: His Life and Times Morris Rossabi
The Strange Death of Liberal England 1910-1914 George Dangerfield
Queen Victoria's Gene (Pocket Biographies) D.M. Potts
John Adams David McCullough
Silent Night: The Story of the World War I Christmas Truce Stanley Weintraub
War in a Time of Peace: Bush Clinton and the Generals David Halberstam
Rise Of The Vulcans: The History of Bush's War Cabinet James Mann
The Road to Disunion: Volume I: Secessionists at Bay 1776-1854 (Road to Disunion Vol. 1) William W. Freehling
Explaining the History of American Foreign Relations Michael J. Hogan and Thomas G. Paterson (eds.)
The Wilsonian Century: U.S. Foreign Policy since 1900 Frank Ninkovich
The Warrior and the Priest: Woodrow Wilson and Theodore Roosevelt John Milton Cooper Jr.
Strategies of Dominance: The Misdirection of U.S. Foreign Policy (Woodrow Wilson Center Press) P. Edward Haley
Maus I: A Survivor's Tale: My Father Bleeds History Art Spiegelman
Maus II: A Survivor's Tale: And Here My Troubles Began (Maus) Art Spiegelman
A World at Arms: A Global History of World War II New Edition Gerhard L. Weinberg
Among The Dead Cities: The History and Moral Legacy of the WWII Bombing of Civilians in Germany and Japan A.C. Grayling
On Strategy: A Critical Analysis of the Vietnam War Harry G. Summers
The American Way of War: A History of United States Military Strategy and Policy Russell F. Weigley
The Civil War: A History Harry Hansen
One Hell of a Gamble: Khrushchev Castro and Kennedy 1958-1964 Aleksandr Fursenko
A Preponderance of Power: National Security the Truman Administration and the Cold War Melvyn Leffler
The Tragedy of American Diplomacy William Appleman Williams
With the Old Breed: At Peleliu and Okinawa E. B. Sledge; Introduction-Paul Fussell
A Time to Lead: For Duty Honor and Country Wesley K. Clark
To End a War (Modern Library Paperbacks) Richard Holbrooke
Ordinary Men: Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland Christopher R. Browning
Ivan's War: Life and Death in the Red Army 1939-1945 Catherine Merridale
Waging Modern War: Bosnia Kosovo and the Future of Combat Wesley K. Clark
Check back in a few years and this list will be five times as large (it's just under 200 books at the moment).

Eat. Drink. Be Merry. But the above FanPost does not necessarily reflect the attitudes, opinions, or views of Purple Row's staff (unless, of course, it's written by the staff [and even then, it still might not]).

Comment 349 comments  |  4 recs  | 

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LOL

the SBNation software links the work Yankees in Black Confederates and Afro-Yankees in Civil War Virginia to the baseball team….

Anyway thatnks for this…and on a work-from-home day for me too!!!

Ignorance of the American League is a sign of good moral character.
Look out Dodgers...Purple objects in mirror are closer than they appear.

I'll be the guy in a orange shirt EVERY Monday...Broncos are my team win or lose.

by RdRnnr on Feb 10, 2010 8:05 AM MST reply actions  

That's

why the auto-tagger asked me if I wanted the Yankees associated with this story.

Snow day for me, even though I’m off from work today, anyway.

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.

by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 8:08 AM MST up reply actions  

I can't believe this thread had zero recs?

Donate to charity by shopping for Purple Row Merchandise at:
Purple Row Cares

by Charlie77 on Feb 11, 2010 8:35 PM MST up reply actions  

We don't have time for recs.

We only have time to debate history.

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.

by Russ Oates on Feb 11, 2010 8:38 PM MST up reply actions  

So Russ

since we were briefly discussing Wilson last week…

What are your thoughts on the League of Nations? Was there any chance that the United States would have supported entry into such a league had Wilson handled the domestic situation differently?

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 8:18 AM MST reply actions  

I've heard

one PhD student of the Progressive Era argue that had Wilson not had his stroke, the speaking tour of the States he planned may have produced an acceptable outcome.

Also, if you delve into Widenor’s biography of Henry Cabot Lodge, you’ll see that Wilson and Lodge weren’t substantially different on the League. Article 10, collective security, was the main problem. Had Wilson been a bit more pliable on Lodge’s and others’ reservation on that, maybe.

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.

by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 8:28 AM MST up reply actions  

I knew Lodge was a proponent of the idea

Wilson may have been too rigid in his demands, too many enemies in Congress to truly make it happen, stroke or no.

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 8:30 AM MST up reply actions  

It didn't help

that he took no Republicans with him to Paris.

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.

by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 8:31 AM MST up reply actions  

It seems to me (and again, this is not my area of study)

is that the isolationist nature of Americans would have stopped participation in the League regardless. The only reason we overcame that after the 2nd world war was that we had become the critical piece. After WWI, we were still (at best) a regional power, not a world power.

Ignorance of the American League is a sign of good moral character.
Look out Dodgers...Purple objects in mirror are closer than they appear.

I'll be the guy in a orange shirt EVERY Monday...Broncos are my team win or lose.

by RdRnnr on Feb 10, 2010 8:34 AM MST up reply actions  

that was a major reason for Wilson's tour

it was really the first time a President had traveled across the country to appeal to the citizens, instead of directly to Congress, and was a monumental shift into modern politics. (FDR drew directly from this strategy)

I hold quite a bit of respect for Wilson, despite his flaws. He essentially killed himself trying to persuade people to do the correct thing.

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 8:37 AM MST up reply actions  

Sure, but Lindbergh and others

were MUCH more sucessful because their message was aimed at re-inforcing existing attitudes, rather than trying to change who Americans basically are.

Ignorance of the American League is a sign of good moral character.
Look out Dodgers...Purple objects in mirror are closer than they appear.

I'll be the guy in a orange shirt EVERY Monday...Broncos are my team win or lose.

by RdRnnr on Feb 10, 2010 8:40 AM MST up reply actions  

it certainly wasn't a success

but it laid some very important groundwork. Wilson was the first president to identify that his power came from public support and actively sought out to gain that approval in order to hold sway over his opponents in Congress

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 8:45 AM MST up reply actions  

Hmmm, I need to think about that.

Sounds right; now I need to figure out if that’s an improvement or not!

Ignorance of the American League is a sign of good moral character.
Look out Dodgers...Purple objects in mirror are closer than they appear.

I'll be the guy in a orange shirt EVERY Monday...Broncos are my team win or lose.

by RdRnnr on Feb 10, 2010 8:48 AM MST up reply actions  

there's a gap between Wilson's first attempt and FDR

but the similarities are certainly there. I don’t know if Coolidge or Hoover had the ability (or Harding the drive) to reach out to the public in the same way. In many respects, Wilson was the first Modern President.

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 8:53 AM MST up reply actions  

That isolationist

sentiment is a bit overblown. Treaty of Portsmouth, aiding a revolution for an independent Panama, the Algeciras Conference, and Far East Asia during Roosevelt’s time. Wilson and Mexico.

It’s really about being politically uninvolved in European continental affairs for the isolationists.

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.

by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 8:39 AM MST up reply actions  

More than overblown

It’s a complete myth.

The United States military has always been used as an interventionist force. Up until the First World War the United States military intervened outside the borders of the United States something like 150 times in places as close as Florida and Cuba to places as far flung as Fiji.

by Onebaseman on Feb 10, 2010 8:56 AM MST up reply actions  

there is a major difference between Monroe Doctrine intervention

and signing up as part of a worldwide police force. There was still isolationist sentiment towards Europe at the time.

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 9:01 AM MST up reply actions  

I would just differentiate between practice and popular sentiment.

Even when fighting in “popular” wars, the American public has always wanted it’s troops to return home quickly; sometimes with disasterous effect.

Ignorance of the American League is a sign of good moral character.
Look out Dodgers...Purple objects in mirror are closer than they appear.

I'll be the guy in a orange shirt EVERY Monday...Broncos are my team win or lose.

by RdRnnr on Feb 10, 2010 9:04 AM MST up reply actions  

I'd argue that's not uniquely American

Total war has almost always led to weariness amongst civilian populations in modern Western societies.

Now, that’s something quite different than having expeditionary forces fight to expand influence which has also been historically very popular amongst civilian populations in modern Western societies.

The United States has never been somehow apart from that tradition, it has always had expeditionary forces fighting to expand territorially and in influence across the globe.

by Onebaseman on Feb 10, 2010 9:11 AM MST up reply actions  

OK, here's a starting topic for me to exhibit some ignorance...

I read somewhere else on the internet a claim that McClellan’s lack of aggressiveness can be partially explained by poor intellegence provided by Pinkerton, who may have had traitorous motives (at at least had Confederate sympathies)

Ignorance of the American League is a sign of good moral character.
Look out Dodgers...Purple objects in mirror are closer than they appear.

I'll be the guy in a orange shirt EVERY Monday...Broncos are my team win or lose.

by RdRnnr on Feb 10, 2010 8:19 AM MST reply actions  

Never heard that before.

I attribute McClellan’s “lack of aggressiveness” to his policies of conciliation. He believed the South needed to be treated properly in the conduct of war, and after Antietam he was no longer in vogue as Lincoln turned to a policy of hard war (i.e., Grant, Sherman, Sheridan).

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.

by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 8:25 AM MST up reply actions  

Hsieh alludes to his conduct of the war as well...

as being part of the influence of West Point, and it’s efforts to professionalize the army.

I know you haven’t read it, but The Best School in the World presents some statistical evidence that USMA did a better job of producing loyal southern officers than the regular army did.

Ignorance of the American League is a sign of good moral character.
Look out Dodgers...Purple objects in mirror are closer than they appear.

I'll be the guy in a orange shirt EVERY Monday...Broncos are my team win or lose.

by RdRnnr on Feb 10, 2010 8:38 AM MST up reply actions  

True,

the professionalization also placed some limits on how the generals conducted themselves, but McClellan, while a professional soldier, was also a soldier with political ambitions.

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.

by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 8:41 AM MST up reply actions  

wasn't he planning to run for president

or was that just Hancock?

Dex Knows
Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. -C.S. Lewis

by RockiesDave on Feb 10, 2010 8:44 AM MST up reply actions  

He did run in 64

Ignorance of the American League is a sign of good moral character.
Look out Dodgers...Purple objects in mirror are closer than they appear.

I'll be the guy in a orange shirt EVERY Monday...Broncos are my team win or lose.

by RdRnnr on Feb 10, 2010 8:46 AM MST up reply actions  

Hancock ran for president too after the war right?

Dex Knows
Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. -C.S. Lewis

by RockiesDave on Feb 10, 2010 8:48 AM MST up reply actions  

1880

Ignorance of the American League is a sign of good moral character.
Look out Dodgers...Purple objects in mirror are closer than they appear.

I'll be the guy in a orange shirt EVERY Monday...Broncos are my team win or lose.

by RdRnnr on Feb 10, 2010 8:49 AM MST up reply actions  

That's actually a pretty interesting election...

close popular vote, highly regionalized….
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winfield_Scott_Hancock#Election_of_1880

Ignorance of the American League is a sign of good moral character.
Look out Dodgers...Purple objects in mirror are closer than they appear.

I'll be the guy in a orange shirt EVERY Monday...Broncos are my team win or lose.

by RdRnnr on Feb 10, 2010 8:52 AM MST up reply actions  

Interesting note of the 1876 election that I had never heard before...

“Colorado had become the 38th state on August 1, 1876. With insufficient time and money to organize a presidential election in the new state, Colorado’s state legislature selected the state’s electors. These electors in turn gave their three votes to Hayes and the Republican Party.”

We don’t need no stinkin’ elections!

Ignorance of the American League is a sign of good moral character.
Look out Dodgers...Purple objects in mirror are closer than they appear.

I'll be the guy in a orange shirt EVERY Monday...Broncos are my team win or lose.

by RdRnnr on Feb 10, 2010 9:01 AM MST up reply actions  

heh

Dex Knows
Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. -C.S. Lewis

by RockiesDave on Feb 10, 2010 9:02 AM MST up reply actions  

yeah that was really close

Dex Knows
Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. -C.S. Lewis

by RockiesDave on Feb 10, 2010 9:01 AM MST up reply actions  

haha

man I actually laughed out loud on that one

Dex Knows
Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. -C.S. Lewis

by RockiesDave on Feb 10, 2010 9:04 AM MST up reply actions  

if you haven't read it

Sarah Vowell’s “Assassination Vacation” is wonderful. It’s a short novel about her fascination with presidential assassins and the vacations she has taken to each of the historic sites.

Highly recommended, it’s a lot of fun

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 9:13 AM MST up reply actions  

yeah that sound interesrting

I would like to know more about Garfield and Mckinley’s. It’s weird that most Americans don’t even realize that we had more than two presidents assinated. If Mckinley never got assasinated then Teddy never becomes president and I think America would be very different today.

Dex Knows
Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. -C.S. Lewis

by RockiesDave on Feb 10, 2010 9:16 AM MST up reply actions  

completely agree

I love that Teddy was “hidden” in the Vice President role so he would stay out of the way, and then becomes the youngest (and most enigmatic) president our country had seen.

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 9:20 AM MST up reply actions  

yeah

they just made him Vice President so that he would never become president. Ha did that plan ever backfire.

Dex Knows
Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. -C.S. Lewis

by RockiesDave on Feb 10, 2010 9:25 AM MST up reply actions  

Dex Knows
Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. -C.S. Lewis

by RockiesDave on Feb 10, 2010 9:28 AM MST up reply actions  

Just added it to my list

Thanks for the reccomendation!

Would love to get other ideas on stuff to read. I’ll add a recommendation of my own soon.

Ignorance of the American League is a sign of good moral character.
Look out Dodgers...Purple objects in mirror are closer than they appear.

I'll be the guy in a orange shirt EVERY Monday...Broncos are my team win or lose.

by RdRnnr on Feb 10, 2010 9:18 AM MST up reply actions  

if you are interested in presidential elections

“1912” by James Chace is incredible. He breaks down each of the four candidates and the dynamics of the election as a whole.

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 9:21 AM MST up reply actions  

I'd also

recommend Four Hats in the Ring: The 1912 Election and the Birth of Modern American Politics by Lewis L. Gould. Read good reviews of it.

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.

by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 9:24 AM MST up reply actions  

I suspect lots of president end up regretting their "victory"

Ignorance of the American League is a sign of good moral character.
Look out Dodgers...Purple objects in mirror are closer than they appear.

I'll be the guy in a orange shirt EVERY Monday...Broncos are my team win or lose.

by RdRnnr on Feb 10, 2010 9:09 AM MST up reply actions  

So, this leads to another topic that your list inspired...

I noticed a couple of Wes Clark titles. As you may remeber, MacGregor in Warrior’s rage doesn’t have much good to say about Gen. Clark as a soldier. Is he in the McClellan mold?

Ignorance of the American League is a sign of good moral character.
Look out Dodgers...Purple objects in mirror are closer than they appear.

I'll be the guy in a orange shirt EVERY Monday...Broncos are my team win or lose.

by RdRnnr on Feb 10, 2010 8:44 AM MST up reply actions  

Interesting comparison

to make. However, Clark was trying to make the best of a bad situation. McClellan, on the other hand, used the actual conduct of the war to enhance his political career.

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.

by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 9:18 AM MST up reply actions  

"Clark was trying to make the best of a bad situation"

Is this a refence to Kuwait or Kosovo? (or both?)

Ignorance of the American League is a sign of good moral character.
Look out Dodgers...Purple objects in mirror are closer than they appear.

I'll be the guy in a orange shirt EVERY Monday...Broncos are my team win or lose.

by RdRnnr on Feb 10, 2010 9:20 AM MST up reply actions  

Kosovo. Clark

didn’t take part in Desert Storm. He was in charge of the National Training Center.

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.

by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 9:22 AM MST up reply actions  

OK, I'm obviously thinking of someone else that MacGregor criticized then

Didn’t Petreus later run the NTC? Or am I thinking of someone else from The Forth Star? It’s at Ft. leavenworth, KS, right?

Ignorance of the American League is a sign of good moral character.
Look out Dodgers...Purple objects in mirror are closer than they appear.

I'll be the guy in a orange shirt EVERY Monday...Broncos are my team win or lose.

by RdRnnr on Feb 10, 2010 9:26 AM MST up reply actions  

*Fourth*

Ignorance of the American League is a sign of good moral character.
Look out Dodgers...Purple objects in mirror are closer than they appear.

I'll be the guy in a orange shirt EVERY Monday...Broncos are my team win or lose.

by RdRnnr on Feb 10, 2010 9:26 AM MST up reply actions  

NTC is at

Fort Irwin, California. That’s where they do Desert Training.

Ft. Leavenworth is home to the US Army Command and General Staff, which Petraues was in charge of a few years ago.

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.

by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 9:31 AM MST up reply actions  

interesting thread

Even though I won’t be able to contribute to this, I don’t feel that I now enough about history to do so, I really enjoy reading what you all have to say on the various events you are bringing up…plan to stalk…urr…read this one on a regular basis…thanks for starting it Russ!

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by Maria M on Feb 10, 2010 8:56 AM MST reply actions  

ask a question if you have something you were always curious about

I’m sure one of us has studied it closely

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 8:58 AM MST up reply actions  

I cannot match the depth of knowledge of military history it seems Russ has

My study has been very broad based and my actual research work has all been in social history. I’m currently working in the History of Sport.

One of the more interesting (and relevant to Purple Row) pieces I’ve read over the past few months was an article about why Americans chose to play baseball instead of Cricket as other British colonial possessions.

Here’s a slice from the abstract along with a citation:

Majumdar, Boria and Sean Brown. 2007. Why baseball, why cricket? differing nationalisms, differing challenges. International Journal of the History of Sport. 24(2):139-156. < http://www.informaworld.com/10.1080/09523360601045732 >. (accessed 10 February 2010).
 In India, the nationalist movement from the close of the nineteenth century made it imperative that cricket be taken up as a non-violent means to compete with the ruling British. In the United States, where independence was achieved a century and a half earlier than India, this need was totally irrelevant. Rather, what was important in the US was to sever all sporting connections with the empire to emphasize an independent American identity. It is this inverse invocation of nationalism, we have argued, that best provides the key to unwinding the old dichotomy, Why Baseball Why Cricket? in differing global contexts.

by Onebaseman on Feb 10, 2010 9:03 AM MST reply actions  

American theatre took a very similar turn away from everything "British" and at around the same time as baseball

Melodrama may not be high art, but it was uniquely American. In fact, it seems all of popular entertainment had similar movements at about the same time…hmmmm…this is something I should look into.

Thanks for the abstract, I will be ordering that shortly.

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 9:24 AM MST up reply actions  

actually, I have access to the full text article right now

thanks again, hopefully I will read this today

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 9:26 AM MST up reply actions  

No problem

I’d be interesting to see what you think of the argument as a whole.

I personally think it is somewhat strained and somewhat removes British agency for the proliferation of Cricket as an imperial sport.

Still a very interesting article.

by Onebaseman on Feb 10, 2010 9:33 AM MST up reply actions  

I think he makes a very interesting point at the end about NASCAR and the NFL

and I agree with his premise on the American side. The Manifest Destiny fire raged in many directions, and entertainment (especially baseball) seemed to be a product of that. Again, the similarities between this and the development of American theatre at the same time have to be linked. I really need to take a closer look at this phenomenon.

Thanks for the link, that was a great read.

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 10:40 AM MST up reply actions  

Waterloo

I have been reading Les Miserables and Victor hugo devoted a whole big chapter to the battle of Waterloo. I really did not know much about the battle before hand. But since I have been doing some research on it. Even watched the 1970’s classic movie which is pretty cool. I had no idea how Wellington had used the battlefield so tactifully to surprise the French. Also did not know that the battle was really won by the prussians showing up at the end of the battle. It’s a very interesting battle once you start to learn about it.

Dex Knows
Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. -C.S. Lewis

by RockiesDave on Feb 10, 2010 9:11 AM MST reply actions  

I disagree about the Prussians winning the battle..

while Napoleon was pressed for time because of the arrival of the larger force, I believe his inability to capture the lower forts in the valley, especially Quatres-Bra, and Marshal Ney’s butchering of his cavalry lead to the ultimate defeat. Wellington consistently proved he was able to adapt to changing situations in the field (like having his infantry squares lie down behind the hill to avoid the artillery shot) proved he was a better commander than Napoleon.

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by Charlie77 on Feb 10, 2010 4:54 PM MST up reply actions  

Can we have a historinerd thread on a baseball blog and not discuss..

Doubleday?

I love that there is a Colorado connection to the creation of the Doubleday myth. Spaulding’s "source’ was a Denver resident when he came forward.

Ignorance of the American League is a sign of good moral character.
Look out Dodgers...Purple objects in mirror are closer than they appear.

I'll be the guy in a orange shirt EVERY Monday...Broncos are my team win or lose.

by RdRnnr on Feb 10, 2010 9:33 AM MST reply actions  

Books of interest

Sugarball: The American Game, the Dominican Dream.

The Tropic of Baseball: Baseball in the Dominican Republic

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.

by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 9:43 AM MST up reply actions  

I'm not up to speed on 20th century military history

But if anyone has a question about the medieval time period, the High Middle Ages, or especially England 900-1800, I am over that like a fat kid on cake.

I can haz NL West title in 2010? And for that matter, the damn 2010 season to START?

by Silverblood on Feb 10, 2010 9:35 AM MST reply actions  

coincidentally

In between comments I’m reading the chapter on the middle ages in Anna Clark’s Desire: A History of European Sexuality.

I’ve never been so glad to have been born in the 20th Century.

by Onebaseman on Feb 10, 2010 9:42 AM MST up reply actions  

Silver, I'm reading a biography of Charles II right now

It’s a time I know next to nothing about, so it’s fascinating. I’m also reading a book on the history of British cuisine (stop laughing at the back, France) which is currently in the middle ages. Did you know 100% of British people in the dark ages had teeth worn to stumps by the grittiness of the bread?

by biondino on Feb 10, 2010 9:46 AM MST up reply actions  

I've actually studied the Restoration in some depth

(was planning to write a novel about that one). So I may be able to help if you come up with questions.

I can haz NL West title in 2010? And for that matter, the damn 2010 season to START?

by Silverblood on Feb 10, 2010 10:39 AM MST up reply actions  

Hmm

That sounds like an interesting book.

I can haz NL West title in 2010? And for that matter, the damn 2010 season to START?

by Silverblood on Feb 10, 2010 10:42 AM MST up reply actions  

ooh! Let's talk about English history

it’s been a couple of years since I discussed this with anyone.

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 9:52 AM MST up reply actions  

We saved their asses twice last century.

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.

by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 9:54 AM MST up reply actions  

they are like the older brother who beat us up when we were young

but just made us tough. We grew up to be bigger and had to protect the family

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 9:56 AM MST up reply actions  

War plans

and planned war are very different things. The military had a number of color plans.

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.

by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 9:59 AM MST up reply actions  

If you figured out the best way to punch me on the nose, and I found out about it

I’d be pretty miffed, even if you weren’t “seriously” considering it :)

Anyway, any possible credibility the US once had about aggressive wars is long gone, so can we al share the moral low ground on this one?

by biondino on Feb 10, 2010 10:14 AM MST up reply actions  

Yes.

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.

by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 10:15 AM MST up reply actions  

or Chinese history

I am big into that as well… no one?

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 9:54 AM MST up reply actions  

Russian?

19th Century American?

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 9:55 AM MST up reply actions  

Not much Russian,

but yes on 19th century America.

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.

by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 9:56 AM MST up reply actions  

Up to 1500,

I can discuss a little. My professo for that are, Morris Rossabi, makes an appearance on the above list.

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.

by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 9:56 AM MST up reply actions  

are you familiar with the Taipeng Rebellion?

took place during the American Civil War, basically toppled the Qing dynasty. A school dropout had visions that he was Jesus’ brother and somehow organized the entire countryside (by persuasion or by force) in armed rebellion against the Chinese government.

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 10:03 AM MST up reply actions  

Can't say that I am.

I didn’t take the second half of Chinese history.

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.

by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 10:04 AM MST up reply actions  

too bad

I find it fascinating, how this seemingly lazy man can organize and lead an army of millions of farmers against the admittedly vulnerable Chinese empire.

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 10:09 AM MST up reply actions  

it reads as fiction because the situation is so implausible

you may find it interesting though, there are entire books of their military strategies and army organization.

“God’s Chinese Son” by Jonathan Spense is a very engaging account of the organization and military campaigns and structure of the group.

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 10:13 AM MST up reply actions  

Woohoo

But where to start…?

I can haz NL West title in 2010? And for that matter, the damn 2010 season to START?

by Silverblood on Feb 10, 2010 10:40 AM MST up reply actions  

why not Charles II?

biondino? any thoughts from your biography?

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 10:42 AM MST up reply actions  

Well, I'm only about 1/4 of the way through it

And it’s pretty hefty, so, um, when I went away last week I took a couple of lighter books with me instead :)

So perhaps when I’ve finished it? My area of expertise (i.e. the areas where I know enough to not completely suck at talking about it) is the Tudor period, if that’s of interest.

by biondino on Feb 10, 2010 10:45 AM MST up reply actions  

The book I was going to write was about Mary Stuart

(the Mary in William and Mary). I’ll get back to it once this other project is finally done. I have a few chapters, and what I found interesting about creating the characters of Charles II and James was that they operate on completely different planes from the rest of England. They really do believe the prerogative of kings, and it makes you realise (as is usually the case) how foreign policy in those days was basically who the king had a grudge against, regardless of circumstances. (The Treaty of Dover, for example). And of course that was smack in the middle of the Parliamentary debates about the divine rights that kings were supposed to have, or rather not have.

I can haz NL West title in 2010? And for that matter, the damn 2010 season to START?

by Silverblood on Feb 10, 2010 10:46 AM MST up reply actions  

And of course

Charles and James were both giant manwhores. As far as that goes, it’s hard to decide who comes out on top (so to speak) — them or Henry I.

I can haz NL West title in 2010? And for that matter, the damn 2010 season to START?

by Silverblood on Feb 10, 2010 10:48 AM MST up reply actions  

(re: above) Majumdar and Brown argue that the Doubleday myth was an attempt to erase the British roots of baseball to retroactively justify its perceived status as America’s past time.

I think it just may have been a story too tall not to pass on.

by Onebaseman on Feb 10, 2010 9:37 AM MST reply actions  

Historical Fiction

I am a huge fan of historical Fiction. I have read most of the Shaara books and Patrick Obrien’s Master and Commander series along with a bunch of other stuff, including Berard Cornwell stuff, and of course a lot of Michner. does anyone have any suggestions of other great historical fiction out there that you enjoyed?

Dex Knows
Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. -C.S. Lewis

by RockiesDave on Feb 10, 2010 9:48 AM MST reply actions  

Don't really like the stuff.

I do prefer alternate history, though.

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.

by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 9:49 AM MST up reply actions  

Harry Turtledove?

read Guns of the South that was interesting. time travelers bring the South AK-47’s. Kind of crazy, he has that other string of books though that don’t involve time travelers just what if the South had won.

Dex Knows
Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. -C.S. Lewis

by RockiesDave on Feb 10, 2010 9:52 AM MST up reply actions  

Turtledove, Flint,

and I consider Philip Pullman’s work quasi-alternate history.

Turtledove’s Timeline-191 series is my favorite, but there are tons of problems with it.

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.

by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 9:54 AM MST up reply actions  

Whats the first book in that series?

is it How Few Remain? been meaning to read that series.

Dex Knows
Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. -C.S. Lewis

by RockiesDave on Feb 10, 2010 9:56 AM MST up reply actions  

How Few Remain

is the first. That’s the best of them. The rest depends on how much you like the Confederate States of America becoming Nazi Germany.

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.

by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 9:57 AM MST up reply actions  

How about his Colonization series?

Aliens come to colonize Earth and interupt WWII.

Ignorance of the American League is a sign of good moral character.
Look out Dodgers...Purple objects in mirror are closer than they appear.

by RdRnnr on Feb 10, 2010 10:35 AM MST up reply actions  

Passed on those.

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.

by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 10:35 AM MST up reply actions  

Another Favorite

James Webb Emperor’s General, about the events immediately post WWII in Japan and the Phillipines. Focused a lot on MaCarthur and his take over of the Japanese government and the war crimes trials in the Phillipines.

Dex Knows
Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. -C.S. Lewis

by RockiesDave on Feb 10, 2010 10:14 AM MST up reply actions  

Well, I write historical fiction...?

If all goes well, you may be getting to read some of it fairly soon

I can haz NL West title in 2010? And for that matter, the damn 2010 season to START?

by Silverblood on Feb 10, 2010 10:50 AM MST up reply actions  

yes indeed

book is currently being looked at by HarperCollins and Simon & Schuster, as far as I know.

I can haz NL West title in 2010? And for that matter, the damn 2010 season to START?

by Silverblood on Feb 10, 2010 10:53 AM MST up reply actions  

thats cool is it about the Normans as well?

Dex Knows
Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. -C.S. Lewis

by RockiesDave on Feb 10, 2010 11:11 AM MST up reply actions  

Yeah

Half of it takes place in the 11th century during the years of William’s reign and right afterward (from 1066-1097) and half in 20th century Oxford.

I can haz NL West title in 2010? And for that matter, the damn 2010 season to START?

by Silverblood on Feb 10, 2010 11:16 AM MST up reply actions  

sounds cool

let us know if it gets published

Dex Knows
Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. -C.S. Lewis

by RockiesDave on Feb 10, 2010 11:25 AM MST up reply actions  

oh I will

I may even freak out

I can haz NL West title in 2010? And for that matter, the damn 2010 season to START?

by Silverblood on Feb 10, 2010 11:43 AM MST up reply actions  

I'll freak out with you

and then swap novels (though yours is infinitely better)

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 11, 2010 1:09 AM MST up reply actions  

I would so pick up Silver's book in a bookshop

If it has a good cover, anyway, ideally with the writing in olde-tyme type.

by biondino on Feb 11, 2010 5:13 AM MST up reply actions  

I would need a signed copy.

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by Charlie77 on Feb 11, 2010 11:38 AM MST up reply actions  

I'm a huge Bernard Cornwell fan..

there’s a cool fansite of his at Hookton.

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by Charlie77 on Feb 10, 2010 5:30 PM MST up reply actions  

His Lords of The North series is great

But his Richard Sharpe novels were the best

Belief that success is inevitable is as likely to hold you back as a belief that it is impossible.

by TomCat009 on Feb 12, 2010 4:20 AM MST up reply actions  

Interesting

I thought it was the other way around i thought the Union joined Germany in WWI and WWII maybe I heard opposit. I will defintley have to check it out once I finish Les Mis.

Dex Knows
Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. -C.S. Lewis

by RockiesDave on Feb 10, 2010 10:00 AM MST reply actions  

reply fail...

Dex Knows
Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. -C.S. Lewis

by RockiesDave on Feb 10, 2010 10:01 AM MST up reply actions  

Not to spoil things,

but yes, the United States joins Germany. Germany doesn’t lose the war in Europe and the Kaiser stays in power. The CSA, bitter after defeat, find their scapegoat. . . .

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.

by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 10:02 AM MST up reply actions  

Books that I look

forward to when they come out later this year:

Quicksand: America’s Pursuit of Power in the Middle East
Geoffrey Wawro

America’s School for War: Fort Leavenworth, Officer Education, and Victory in World War II (Modern War Studies)
Peter J. Schifferle

Public Health and the Us Military: A History of the Army Medical Department, 1818-1917
Bobby A. Wintermute – I’d recommend everyone picking this one up, even at the steep price of $95. He’s my mentor.

No Higher Law: American Foreign Policy and the Western Hemisphere since 1776
Brian Loveman

At the Precipice: Americans North and South during the Secession Crisis (Littlefield History of the Civil War Era)
Shearer Davis Bowman

Empire for Liberty: A History of American Imperialism from Benjamin Franklin to Paul Wolfowitz
Richard H. Immerman

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.

by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 10:22 AM MST reply actions  

the Public Health one defintley seems intersting

After hearing the horror stories of Civlil war medincine and reading about early naval medince in Master and Commander series, it would be interesting to see the progression of medicine through the 19th century.

Dex Knows
Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. -C.S. Lewis

by RockiesDave on Feb 10, 2010 10:29 AM MST up reply actions  

It's a revision

of his dissertation.

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.

by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 10:30 AM MST up reply actions  

This thread reminds me, it must be time to re-read me some Machiavelli

My mum once got compared, by a judge in court, to Machiavelli. We were very proud.

(she was a witness btw, not the plaintiff)

by biondino on Feb 10, 2010 10:27 AM MST reply actions  

This may be an odd question

but I am curious to the responses it gets.

What is the biggest “what-if” scenario of the 20th Century? That moment where things could have swung one direction, but a specific choice completely altered the timeline of history?

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 10:36 AM MST reply actions  

I'll go back to your first post.

What-if the victors of WWI decide to forgo punitive active, and instead try to rebuild their former enemies (via a Marshall-plan strategy)?

Does a Germany without crushing debt still turn to a Hitler? Do the united western powers alllow communism to rise in Russia (or are they more ripe for attempting it themselves)? Does Denver get a Continental League team in 1959?

Ignorance of the American League is a sign of good moral character.
Look out Dodgers...Purple objects in mirror are closer than they appear.

by RdRnnr on Feb 10, 2010 10:41 AM MST up reply actions  

Have you read The Plot Against America by Philip Roth?

It’s an alternate history novel that explores what happens when Charles Lindbergh (anti-Semite and isolationist) was elected president over FDR in 1940.

I can haz NL West title in 2010? And for that matter, the damn 2010 season to START?

by Silverblood on Feb 10, 2010 10:51 AM MST up reply actions  

I have, but it's been several years

I don’t remember how I felt about it

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 10:53 AM MST up reply actions  

In regards to the book or the scenario?

I can haz NL West title in 2010? And for that matter, the damn 2010 season to START?

by Silverblood on Feb 10, 2010 10:54 AM MST up reply actions  

The scenario

Just my little joke. Well, “joke”.

I was going to write a book about what might have happened if a crazed right-wing lunatic took over the UK, but then I realised that’s what happened in 1979.

by biondino on Feb 10, 2010 10:56 AM MST up reply actions  

Or could have

with Oswald Mosley.

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.

by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 10:56 AM MST up reply actions  

Speaking of which

keep an eye on those BNP people over there, kay?

I can haz NL West title in 2010? And for that matter, the damn 2010 season to START?

by Silverblood on Feb 10, 2010 10:57 AM MST up reply actions  

I think we are, now

I don’t know if it made the news over there but the leader of the BNP appeared on Question Time, the pre-eminent politics panel discussion TV show, and came across as a shifty, sweating idiot.

Though also lately the BNP, who were forced to repeal their “whites only” membership policy, welcomed their first non-caucasian member, a Sikh pensioner.

by biondino on Feb 10, 2010 10:59 AM MST up reply actions  

Well I still read the UK news

so I heard all about that….

I can haz NL West title in 2010? And for that matter, the damn 2010 season to START?

by Silverblood on Feb 10, 2010 11:00 AM MST up reply actions  

obviously I wasn't impressed

as I don’t remember much of it

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 10:54 AM MST up reply actions  

Most alternate history

writers don’t get the ripple effects of changing events. Even Harry Turtledove, PhD in Byzantine history, doesn’t handle it well, but when you do it for the money, who the hell cares. Right?

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

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by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 10:56 AM MST up reply actions  

Well it's not the 20th century

But I think that the Battle of Hastings was a pretty big ’un.

I can haz NL West title in 2010? And for that matter, the damn 2010 season to START?

by Silverblood on Feb 10, 2010 10:54 AM MST up reply actions  

yes, yes it was.

but you don’t think William would have tried again if he had been forced to retreat?

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 10:57 AM MST up reply actions  

oh hell yes William would have tried again

He didn’t get “Invictissimus” on his grave for nothing. I meant if they’d managed to get the arrow in his eye instead of Harold’s. (At one point of the battle, William was yanking his helmet off to prove he was still alive and get the fleeing Normans to turn around. This is a guy who it’s just a really bad idea to be on the other side from).

I can haz NL West title in 2010? And for that matter, the damn 2010 season to START?

by Silverblood on Feb 10, 2010 10:58 AM MST up reply actions  

so less the battle of Hastings

and more William not getting an arrow in his eye like a madman.

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 11:01 AM MST up reply actions  

The thing about William

is that he was just so damn good at what he did. Which was beating the crap out of people. He didn’t really lose a battle his entire life (until his last engagement which led to his death in 1087).

I can haz NL West title in 2010? And for that matter, the damn 2010 season to START?

by Silverblood on Feb 10, 2010 11:02 AM MST up reply actions  

yeah I would put that one or Waterloo as the most impactful for all time

Dex Knows
Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. -C.S. Lewis

by RockiesDave on Feb 10, 2010 11:00 AM MST up reply actions  

Yeah, Waterloo too, but I love the Norman Conquest

I am a Norman Conquest geek. It’s taking over my life. So I naturally think of that one first.

I can haz NL West title in 2010? And for that matter, the damn 2010 season to START?

by Silverblood on Feb 10, 2010 11:01 AM MST up reply actions  

also maybe Casear crossing the Rhine

Dex Knows
Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. -C.S. Lewis

by RockiesDave on Feb 10, 2010 11:02 AM MST up reply actions  

or more specifically

if Hannibal had an ounce of support for his invading force.

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 11:03 AM MST up reply actions  

As in, Hannibal of Carthage and the Alps?

I can haz NL West title in 2010? And for that matter, the damn 2010 season to START?

by Silverblood on Feb 10, 2010 11:03 AM MST up reply actions  

I'm not as familiar with the earlier eras

Was that during the Punic Wars?

I can haz NL West title in 2010? And for that matter, the damn 2010 season to START?

by Silverblood on Feb 10, 2010 11:05 AM MST up reply actions  

yeah

he was left to plunder the Roman countryside for years without supplies. Eventually, the Roman army counterattacked Carthage itself and Hannibal was forced to retreat and defend his homeland, where he was eventually defeated.

The shift in power and the real catalyst for the Roman Empire

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 11:08 AM MST up reply actions  

And years later,

Carthago delenda est.

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.

by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 11:10 AM MST up reply actions  

Yeah I haven't studied as much Antiquity history

One of these days I should give myself a refresher on the Roman Empire. The thing I tend to remember, of course, is all the crazy emperors.

Very strange fact: One night I had a dream that I was in some sort of history competition. I was asked who the first Christian Roman emperor was, and when. I said, “Constantine, 313 AD.”

And then I woke up and realized that it was correct. Hmmm.

I can haz NL West title in 2010? And for that matter, the damn 2010 season to START?

by Silverblood on Feb 10, 2010 11:11 AM MST up reply actions  

I need a refresher myself, to be honest

anyone have any good recommendations?

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 11:12 AM MST up reply actions  

yeah me too obviously

after my Rhine comment

Dex Knows
Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. -C.S. Lewis

by RockiesDave on Feb 10, 2010 11:13 AM MST up reply actions  

Stuff by Adrian Goldsworthy

http://www.adriangoldsworthy.com/books.htm

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
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by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 11:13 AM MST up reply actions  

I spend

much too much time looking through university press catalogs and the like.

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
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by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 11:18 AM MST up reply actions  

I don't blame you

the nice thing about my job is I spend half my day browsing through online journal resources

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 11:19 AM MST up reply actions  

I'm still waiting

for the winter 2009/2010 issue of the Journal of Military History to be available through ProjectMuse.

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

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by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 11:20 AM MST up reply actions  

This won't be a problem

when I can actually join the SMH and SHAFR.

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.

by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 11:26 AM MST up reply actions  

I don't know SHAFR

what are the requirements for joining?

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 11:28 AM MST up reply actions  

Society for Historians

of American Foreign Relations. They publish Diplomatic History.

Have a PhD in the area or be working toward one.

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
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by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 11:29 AM MST up reply actions  

Well, technically

anyone interested in the subject can join, but you know.

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
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by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 11:30 AM MST up reply actions  

Yes.

I’ve started to check out three-five books every week from the Queens Library system. It has a great collection.

I’ll be well prepared.

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.

by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 11:32 AM MST up reply actions  

First "Christian" emperor.

He wasn’t baptized until shortly before his death.

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.

by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 11:13 AM MST up reply actions  

Commonly recognized as the first though

Which was apparently good enough for my subconscious.

I can haz NL West title in 2010? And for that matter, the damn 2010 season to START?

by Silverblood on Feb 10, 2010 11:14 AM MST up reply actions  

in hoc signo vinces

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.

by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 11:15 AM MST up reply actions  

That was also the dream

where my subconscious correctly identified “Thursday” as coming from “Thor’s Day” after the Norse god. Which I hadn’t even looked up or anything prior to falling asleep and having said dream.

I can haz NL West title in 2010? And for that matter, the damn 2010 season to START?

by Silverblood on Feb 10, 2010 11:18 AM MST up reply actions  

I always refer to the days of the week

by their origins. Saturnday, Thorsday… Odinday is my favorite

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 11:21 AM MST up reply actions  

What's your feeling about..

Humpday?

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by Charlie77 on Feb 10, 2010 4:37 PM MST up reply actions  

If Hannibal hadn't lost half his army in crossing the Alps..

in October, then he wouldn’t have needed the support. He was also roundly defeated in Carthage by Scipio in a fairly even fight (Hannibal even had his war elephants).

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by Charlie77 on Feb 10, 2010 4:36 PM MST up reply actions  

I read this as "Hannibal lost half his arm"

and was thoroughly confused

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 5:04 PM MST up reply actions  

He later lost an eye.

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by Charlie77 on Feb 10, 2010 5:51 PM MST up reply actions  

wandered around Rome for 15 years

too many troops to be pushed back, not enough to actually assault Rome proper.

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 11:05 AM MST up reply actions  

The Rubicon?

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.

by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 11:04 AM MST up reply actions  

right haha the Rhine where did that come from

brain malfunction

Dex Knows
Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. -C.S. Lewis

by RockiesDave on Feb 10, 2010 11:05 AM MST up reply actions  

A great history of the Vatican II is called the Rhine flows into the Tiber

Belief that success is inevitable is as likely to hold you back as a belief that it is impossible.

by TomCat009 on Feb 12, 2010 4:22 AM MST up reply actions  

this has nothing to do with history

but I once performed in a trilogy of plays entitled “The Norman Conquests”

Though the Norman it references was a british gentleman, and his conquests were not of a military nature…

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 11:02 AM MST up reply actions  

I think I may have heard of that

Sounds… intriguing.

I can haz NL West title in 2010? And for that matter, the damn 2010 season to START?

by Silverblood on Feb 10, 2010 11:04 AM MST up reply actions  

it's quite funny

all 3 plays take place over the same night at the same house, but each play is located in a specific room in the house.

So in the first play, someone may walk into the kitchen laughing about something, but you don’t find out what it is until halfway through the second play, when you see the joke told in the living room.

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 11:06 AM MST up reply actions  

Here's a vote for Cuban Missile Crisis...

None of us might exist if that goes differently.

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by Jeff Aberle on Feb 10, 2010 12:13 PM MST up reply actions  

yeah aint that the truth

Dex Knows
Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. -C.S. Lewis

by RockiesDave on Feb 10, 2010 12:15 PM MST up reply actions  

Good point

but doesn’t it look like there were plenty of mistakes made, yet none turned out fatal. Both sides were obviously HIGHLY motivated to insure it didn’t escalate out of control…

Ignorance of the American League is a sign of good moral character.
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by RdRnnr on Feb 10, 2010 1:20 PM MST up reply actions  

I don't know if this is number one

but I would say what if Japan decided not to attack Pearl Harbor when they did? This means that the US takes longer to get involved in the War and all of Europe including the UK possibly falls to Hitler while Japan captures even more land in the South Pacific. World War II might have a different ending if that happens.

"I'm convinced that every boy, in his heart, would rather steal second base than an automobile." ~Tom Clark

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 10, 2010 1:09 PM MST up reply actions  

It certainly turned out that way for the US

"I'm convinced that every boy, in his heart, would rather steal second base than an automobile." ~Tom Clark

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 10, 2010 1:31 PM MST up reply actions  

I never understood Japan's reasoning for attacking Pearl Harbor..

although they attacked the Philippines at the same time for their oil reserves. So it leads to the question of if the US would go to war over the attack on MacArthur’s troops and the resulting Bataan death march if Pearl Harbor was never touched.

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by Charlie77 on Feb 10, 2010 4:41 PM MST up reply actions  

I believe that FDR was looking for any reason to enter into the war

and the Japanese needed to make a move. Their island nation doesn’t have the resources necessary to maintain such a large military without expanding.

The idea behind Pearl Harbor was to completely cripple the Pacific Fleet, and they were successful. Like I said above, Japan was well ahead of the US in the Pacific until some incredibly bad luck at Midway Island. A few things swing the other way (planes arrive 10 minutes earlier at a carrier group) and the Japanese would have controlled the Pacific.

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 4:53 PM MST up reply actions  

Well Japan was certainly bold..

attacking two American territories at the same time. However it was nothing more than a symbolic victory, half of the battleships were raised and refitted for later duty and the battle held no lasting victory for the Japanese.

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by Charlie77 on Feb 10, 2010 5:06 PM MST up reply actions  

How about this for an interesting scenario

Japan wins Midway and gains control of the Pacific but the US still gets the A-Bomb in 1945.

"I'm convinced that every boy, in his heart, would rather steal second base than an automobile." ~Tom Clark

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 10, 2010 5:52 PM MST up reply actions  

How would the Bomb be delivered to Japan?

Through the Aleutians?

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by Charlie77 on Feb 10, 2010 5:58 PM MST up reply actions  

I just finished reading Children Of The Mind by Orson Scott Card

And he discusses this in the afterword. He thinks that the military and political leaders were pressured into attacking the US because of their perception of what the under-officers expected of them. He wonders what would have happened if they had not attacked – there was a lot of death and destruction rained down of Japan, but it ultimately led to them turning their culture towards Democracy and leading to the advancements to where they are today. It’s an interesting argument.

by controlled_slide on Feb 10, 2010 1:24 PM MST up reply actions  

man the Enders Game books are great

I am reading Bean’s side now.

Dex Knows
Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. -C.S. Lewis

by RockiesDave on Feb 10, 2010 1:35 PM MST up reply actions  

yeah

there is a line that follows Ender and line that follows Bean

Dex Knows
Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. -C.S. Lewis

by RockiesDave on Feb 10, 2010 1:37 PM MST up reply actions  

wow, I had no idea about this

checking this out…

(THERE ARE TOO MANY BOOKS)

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 1:38 PM MST up reply actions  

here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ender%27s_Game_series#Ender_series

Dex Knows
Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. -C.S. Lewis

by RockiesDave on Feb 10, 2010 1:38 PM MST up reply actions  

it will have to wait in line behind the Mars trilogy, unfortunately

and the 5 other books I am in the middle of currently

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 1:40 PM MST up reply actions  

yeah I get that way too

right now I am reading Les Mis but want to finsih Master and Commander series, Enders Gmae Series and the Second David Eddings Series. Start the Turtledove series along with a lot of the books recomended today

Dex Knows
Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. -C.S. Lewis

by RockiesDave on Feb 10, 2010 1:42 PM MST up reply actions  

The question I would have involving America's entry into the war is how late would have been too late?

How much more of the Pacific would Japan have had to control for this to happen? How strong wouls Hitler have gotten? I personally don’t think we could have waited much longer before to course of the war became irreverseable.

"I'm convinced that every boy, in his heart, would rather steal second base than an automobile." ~Tom Clark

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 10, 2010 1:36 PM MST up reply actions  

well, the war was at a breaking point in the Pacific regardless of Pearl Harbor or not

Japan’s oil lines were being stretched thin and they had to start invading American bases to keep their armies mobile

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 1:37 PM MST up reply actions  

Poking the bear still seems kind of stupid to me though

I know I have the advantage of knowing the outcome but the risk seems to outweigh the reward in this case.

"I'm convinced that every boy, in his heart, would rather steal second base than an automobile." ~Tom Clark

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 10, 2010 1:49 PM MST up reply actions  

without some extreme luck at Midway

the Japanese would have held an extreme edge in the Pacific Theater for a couple more years at least. Perhaps even enough to sue for peace. They were never going to invade the US mainland.

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 1:51 PM MST up reply actions  

there is a good book about this

called Japan’s War goes back way in history to show why Japan attacked.

Dex Knows
Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. -C.S. Lewis

by RockiesDave on Feb 10, 2010 1:52 PM MST up reply actions  

Well it's not the 20th century but what would have been the outcome of the American Civil War if

Stonewall Jackson hadn’t been shot by his own troops and Lee had taken Longstreet’s advice and elected not to fight at Gettysburg?

Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah, 1983

by pedalpusher on Feb 12, 2010 5:02 PM MST up reply actions  

never mind. It's discussed below.

Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah, 1983

by pedalpusher on Feb 12, 2010 5:46 PM MST up reply actions  

hmmm

canidates:
Assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand
Sinking of the Lusitania
Treaty of Versailles
Midway
Aircraft Carriers not at Pearl Harbor
D-Day
Cuban Missle Crisis

Dex Knows
Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. -C.S. Lewis

by RockiesDave on Feb 10, 2010 10:42 AM MST reply actions  

reply fail once again

dang

Dex Knows
Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. -C.S. Lewis

by RockiesDave on Feb 10, 2010 10:43 AM MST up reply actions  

crazy thing about Ferdinand

did you know that it was a complete fluke he died that day?

The original assassination attempt failed and the assassins scattered. Ferdinand ordered his party towards a hospital to take care of the wounded, but they happened down a side street where Princip was going into a cafe. Princip recognized the Archduke, charged the vehicle and shot.

(Apparently, Princip was also the worst shot of the group, commonly mocked during their target practice. The only way he could have hit anything was to get lucky.)

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 10:46 AM MST up reply actions  

The Archduke was

also a vain man. He was sewn into his clothing, or so I’ve heard.

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

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by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 10:48 AM MST up reply actions  

yeah it's a crazy story

the first attempt was actually a sticky bomb that just bounced off the car and into the crowd and Ferdinand wanted to go to the hospital to see the wounded.

Dex Knows
Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. -C.S. Lewis

by RockiesDave on Feb 10, 2010 10:48 AM MST up reply actions  

This is a good list

"I'm convinced that every boy, in his heart, would rather steal second base than an automobile." ~Tom Clark

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 10, 2010 1:20 PM MST up reply actions  

If we were doing the 19th century I would have a really good underdog candidate

January 24th 1848; the day gold was discoved in California. This obviously caused the gold rush but it also caused other things to happen. If forced California into statehood as a free state and elimated the Missouri comp line and put the country on the fast track to Civil War. The Civil War was bound to happen anyway, but this really helped accelerate it. Who knows how far slavery would have spread if we continued a slower progression westward. Basically I’m arguing that without the discovery of gold, the Civil War happens much later and this could have drastically altered American events in the 20th century.

"I'm convinced that every boy, in his heart, would rather steal second base than an automobile." ~Tom Clark

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 10, 2010 1:30 PM MST up reply actions  

excellent point

and everyone always forgets about the repercussions of this event.

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 1:35 PM MST up reply actions  

As much tension as there was between the north and south before this event

the Missouri comp line actually did a pretty good job of keeping war at bay. Popular Sovereignty was a complete disaster.

"I'm convinced that every boy, in his heart, would rather steal second base than an automobile." ~Tom Clark

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 10, 2010 1:41 PM MST up reply actions  

I am currently reading a book about the Missouri Compromise

and I had no idea that the debate should have never even come up. A Junior Congressman decided to make a dramatic speech right before the end of Congress’ session and it became a national debate overnight.

If he wasn’t trying to stir up his base, or if Congress had remained in session for another week, the situation would have dissolved.

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 1:43 PM MST up reply actions  

Wow that really intriguing

I love seeing how things like this that might seem so litte at one time explode into something huge.

Oh and while I’m remembering………… Happy Birthday Muzia!!!!!

"I'm convinced that every boy, in his heart, would rather steal second base than an automobile." ~Tom Clark

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 10, 2010 1:52 PM MST up reply actions  

Thanks!

So far, I have played pool until 2am on a work night, edited a script and had a bum refuse my gift of fries. A mixed bag, but I will take it.

Oh, and this is THE GREATEST THREAD EVER. I am giddy from excitement.

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 1:55 PM MST up reply actions  

The Missouri Compromise and Its Aftermath: Slavery and the Meaning of America by Robert Pierce Forbes?

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

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by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 1:57 PM MST up reply actions  

good guess, but no

I can’t remember the author right now. It’s about 1100 pages long though, I have been working my way through it 20 pages at a time for about a year now.

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 1:59 PM MST up reply actions  

Ah, well,

I really like the titles the University of Kansas Press and the UNC Press put out. That’s why I come up with these titles.

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

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by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 2:02 PM MST up reply actions  

something like

The Making of the American Democracy 1800-1830

The title is something close to that. The book is an absolute monster, therefore I am taking my time getting through it. I don’t really have a choice.

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 2:06 PM MST up reply actions  

One work I need to pick up

is David M. Potter’s The Impending Crisis, a classic work on the 1850s.

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
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by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 2:30 PM MST up reply actions  

yeah this is a good one

Dex Knows
Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. -C.S. Lewis

by RockiesDave on Feb 10, 2010 1:36 PM MST up reply actions  

yeah it appears that a lot of Rox fans are also closet history nerds as well

Dex Knows
Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. -C.S. Lewis

by RockiesDave on Feb 10, 2010 11:27 AM MST up reply actions  

We're out and proud

historinerds

I can haz NL West title in 2010? And for that matter, the damn 2010 season to START?

by Silverblood on Feb 10, 2010 11:33 AM MST up reply actions  

yeah I guess thats true in my case too

my friends buy me posters like this

Dex Knows
Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. -C.S. Lewis

by RockiesDave on Feb 10, 2010 11:35 AM MST up reply actions  

I wish they would ask me..

Before using my pic like that. I get risiduals from the boxing shorts company.

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by Charlie77 on Feb 11, 2010 11:51 AM MST up reply actions  

Yeah, we're not discussing

the seasons of all-time Rockies.

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.

by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 11:27 AM MST up reply actions  

clearly

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by Andrew Martin on Feb 10, 2010 11:32 AM MST up reply actions  

It's snowing here.

I need something to entertain me.

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

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Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.

by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 11:33 AM MST up reply actions  

Yeah I have a snowday

wiped out a 7am-5pm day. Woohoo.

I can haz NL West title in 2010? And for that matter, the damn 2010 season to START?

by Silverblood on Feb 10, 2010 11:34 AM MST up reply actions  

ok

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by Andrew Martin on Feb 10, 2010 11:34 AM MST up reply actions  

Yeah RMN

what do YOU know about Gavrilo Princip?

I can haz NL West title in 2010? And for that matter, the damn 2010 season to START?

by Silverblood on Feb 10, 2010 11:34 AM MST up reply actions  

dick diddly dick

that’s why I write for a baseball website

Purple Row: Take this personally
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 10, 2010 11:35 AM MST up reply actions  

Well,

we’re more than glad to move our discussion from here to your article.

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.

by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 11:35 AM MST up reply actions  

do what you guys want

i was just wondering why the front page in general was so quiet

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by Andrew Martin on Feb 10, 2010 11:38 AM MST up reply actions  

It was this

or have SnakePit Day here.

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.

by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 11:40 AM MST up reply actions  

This is clearly marked as OT.

Are you planning a coup?

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.

by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 11:44 AM MST up reply actions  

I shouldn't need to

but like RdRunner said, I’m clearly just “pimping” my article, so I’ll just vote 1 and move on

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by Andrew Martin on Feb 10, 2010 11:47 AM MST up reply actions  

Isn't that how you kids talk these days?

Oh, and get off my lawn!

Ignorance of the American League is a sign of good moral character.
Look out Dodgers...Purple objects in mirror are closer than they appear.

by RdRnnr on Feb 10, 2010 11:48 AM MST up reply actions  

Lemme guess

Rox Girl lost another bet?

I can haz NL West title in 2010? And for that matter, the damn 2010 season to START?

by Silverblood on Feb 10, 2010 11:44 AM MST up reply actions  

Yeah,

but I don’t know what the bet was.

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.

by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 11:45 AM MST up reply actions  

well

he completely changed your life whether you know it or not.

Or something like that

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 11:35 AM MST up reply actions  

If you've read one RMN piece...

you’ve read them all!

j/k Now stop interupting us just to pimp your work.

Ignorance of the American League is a sign of good moral character.
Look out Dodgers...Purple objects in mirror are closer than they appear.

by RdRnnr on Feb 10, 2010 11:34 AM MST up reply actions  

fair point

do continue

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by Andrew Martin on Feb 10, 2010 11:38 AM MST up reply actions  

Herbert Hoover

there has to be a defender in here somewhere. Who’s it going to be?

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 11:36 AM MST reply actions  

He didn't suck.

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.

by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 11:36 AM MST up reply actions  

Damn it Russ

how dare you pre-empt me with vacuum jokes

I can haz NL West title in 2010? And for that matter, the damn 2010 season to START?

by Silverblood on Feb 10, 2010 11:37 AM MST up reply actions  

Surely you can come up with something better.

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.

by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 11:38 AM MST up reply actions  

Wha?

I can haz NL West title in 2010? And for that matter, the damn 2010 season to START?

by Silverblood on Feb 10, 2010 11:44 AM MST up reply actions  

making a Hoover Dam joke

then realized you did one earlier, but perhaps it was unintentional?

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 11:46 AM MST up reply actions  

Ohh

Yeah, that one must have been a little too subtle for me. Although I am attempting to write when not hanging around in this thread.

I can haz NL West title in 2010? And for that matter, the damn 2010 season to START?

by Silverblood on Feb 10, 2010 11:47 AM MST up reply actions  

I'm in the year 1060 by now

The plot thickens…

I can haz NL West title in 2010? And for that matter, the damn 2010 season to START?

by Silverblood on Feb 10, 2010 11:53 AM MST up reply actions  

ha

Dex Knows
Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. -C.S. Lewis

by RockiesDave on Feb 10, 2010 11:37 AM MST up reply actions  

I'll be the first to say it (and actually mean it)

I don’t think Hoover sucked. He was a very intelligent and qualified man, and should not be thrown on the same list as Harrison, Harding, Arthur, etc…

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 11:46 AM MST up reply actions  

Willy or Benny?

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.

by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 11:47 AM MST up reply actions  

does it really matter?

I guess one didn’t have a chance to be prez, the other just wasn’t very good at it.

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 11:48 AM MST up reply actions  

Harrison

Haha I was telling my roomate about him the other night. How he caught a cold during his inaugial address which is still the longest in history, then died two weeks later. Another crazy story.

Dex Knows
Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. -C.S. Lewis

by RockiesDave on Feb 10, 2010 11:48 AM MST up reply actions  

haha

Dex Knows
Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. -C.S. Lewis

by RockiesDave on Feb 10, 2010 11:50 AM MST up reply actions  

I have come to the conclusion

that most people don’t know that a)Millard Fillmore was our 13th president and b)that Millard Fillmore was president.

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.

by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 11:52 AM MST up reply actions  

I can recite the 44 presidents in order

But I tend to almost always forget either Franklin Pierce or Millard Fillmore.

I can haz NL West title in 2010? And for that matter, the damn 2010 season to START?

by Silverblood on Feb 10, 2010 11:54 AM MST up reply actions  

Nah, Fillmore and Pierce

are the hardest ones to remember. But I occasionally go to a bar called Fillmore’s.

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.

by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 12:05 PM MST up reply actions  

Yeah exactly

I can haz NL West title in 2010? And for that matter, the damn 2010 season to START?

by Silverblood on Feb 10, 2010 12:08 PM MST up reply actions  

Both in terms of memorization and how much they sucked

Although I did like James K Polk

"I'm convinced that every boy, in his heart, would rather steal second base than an automobile." ~Tom Clark

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 10, 2010 1:16 PM MST up reply actions  

He may have been the closest of any president to actually do what he said he was going to do

"I'm convinced that every boy, in his heart, would rather steal second base than an automobile." ~Tom Clark

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 10, 2010 1:43 PM MST up reply actions  

which is why I love him.

Here are the four things I am going to do as President.

/gets elected

/completes everything he said in four years.

Love the guy.

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 1:44 PM MST up reply actions  

So does he rank #1 for you in best presidents?

"I'm convinced that every boy, in his heart, would rather steal second base than an automobile." ~Tom Clark

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 10, 2010 1:46 PM MST up reply actions  

well, no

because he also was an extreme expansionist, and a land grabber.

But he did exactly what he said and is underrated.

And without him, I may not be a US citizen…

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 1:50 PM MST up reply actions  

Agree

I think he has to rank pretty high though. One thing that I find funny about who we think of when we talk about our greatest presidents is that all of them had some sort of crisis to deal with. It’s kind of unfair to be marked down if you don’t have a crisis so I like to rank people like Polk very high.

"I'm convinced that every boy, in his heart, would rather steal second base than an automobile." ~Tom Clark

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 10, 2010 1:54 PM MST up reply actions  

well, Texas could have been a crisis

same with the Mexican War. Either way, he handled himself admirably and you have to respect the man.

Even the things I dislike were more a product of the era than a judgement of the man himself. He is in my Top 5, most likely.

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 1:57 PM MST up reply actions  

along this same line

who would be your dark horse Top 5 President and why?

Excluding Lincoln, Washington, FDR

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 2:47 PM MST up reply actions  

Truman, for one.

While parochial in nature, he was sort of prescient about the nature and eventual end of the Cold War.

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.

by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 2:56 PM MST up reply actions  

Taft belongs on this list as well

half of the things people credit Teddy with accomplishing actually occurred under Taft’s watch.

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 3:41 PM MST up reply actions  

Isn't he also the reason we have a 7th inning stretch?

"I'm convinced that every boy, in his heart, would rather steal second base than an automobile." ~Tom Clark

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 10, 2010 3:57 PM MST up reply actions  

Speaking of Teddy...

Has anyone seen this? It’s caught my eye a couple of times, but haven’t seen it and am wondering what people thought.

Side note: I really need to get back to Yellowstone one of these days.

by holly96 on Feb 10, 2010 4:23 PM MST up reply actions  

Great series.

You have to watch it in HD though.

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by Charlie77 on Feb 10, 2010 4:48 PM MST up reply actions  

Reagan..

for ending the Cold War.

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by Charlie77 on Feb 10, 2010 4:47 PM MST up reply actions  

Reagan

ended the Cold War as much as the Rockies won the Series in 07 and 09.

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.

by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 4:52 PM MST via mobile up reply actions  

He was the first leader to negotiate..

nuclear arms reduction.

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by Charlie77 on Feb 10, 2010 5:14 PM MST up reply actions  

while simultaneously funneling money to splinter terrorist groups

and enlarging the military budget to unsustainable levels.

None of which ended the Cold War. Gorbachev was 100x the factor in ending the Cold War than Reagan.

You might as well say we have high gas prices because of Jimmy Carter.

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 5:17 PM MST up reply actions  

Reagan enlarged the military budget..

to place America in a position of strength whereby the US could negotiate on level terms with the Russians. None of the Soviet leaders were willing to negotiate until the Americans proved they were a threat, which occurred when the Pershing 2 missiles were shipped to Europe. His most brilliant move was inventing a weapons system that completely terrified the Russians and wasn’t even close to production.

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by Charlie77 on Feb 10, 2010 5:57 PM MST up reply actions  

Except

the Soviets never measured up to the US in any capacity.

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.

by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 6:03 PM MST up reply actions  

Oh Really?


Between 1975 and 1980 America’s inventory of nukes dropped by around 3,000 and Russian inventories increased by over 10,000. Nearly double previous levels and really Reagan never reached pre1975 levels, he just continued an upward plateau to keep the playing field level.

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by Charlie77 on Feb 10, 2010 8:17 PM MST up reply actions  

Stockpiles

are not the same thing as capacity. Besides, nukes were never a viable weapon of war nor a useful deterrent.

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.

by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 9:12 PM MST via mobile up reply actions  

But they were an effective cover

to increase military spending and cut social services, all in the name of “winning the Cold War”

Reagan wouldn’t make my Top 5. In fact, he would make my Bottom 10 to be sure. The man was a puppet and a disastrously harmful one as well.

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 11, 2010 8:26 AM MST up reply actions  

I think your list of presidents would be really close to mine

"I'm convinced that every boy, in his heart, would rather steal second base than an automobile." ~Tom Clark

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 11, 2010 10:20 AM MST up reply actions  

Explain how he would be in your bottom..

 Because I’m not buying it. He toppled a world super power without firing a shot and ushered in one of the most prosperous times in American history.

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by Charlie77 on Feb 11, 2010 12:23 PM MST up reply actions  

He tripled the national debt in a span of 3 years

ushered in an era where the top 5% saw overwhelming prosperity, but the poverty rate jumped to Depression-era levels.

He didn’t do a damn thing to end the Cold War. Because he was president when it toppled doesn’t mean it wasn’t already toppling before he accomplished anything.

His administration was corrupt and had no qualms declaring a “war on drugs” and then using drug cartels to funnel money and arms.

I would continue, but why should I name other abuses that the man himself “cannot recall”. He was a figurehead, a puppet, and the single worst thing for minorities in this country since Jim Crow.

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 11, 2010 12:40 PM MST up reply actions   1 recs

You and Russ are overlooking how strong the Soviets were..

 They’re economy prospered when oil prices were up while the US economy suffered. The USSR was fighting a war on several fronts to undermine America. Without Reagan, and the death of Premier Breszchev to be honest, the world would be a different place today. Also the national debt was nowhere near FDR or even current levels.

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by Charlie77 on Feb 11, 2010 2:02 PM MST up reply actions  

Nope.

Soviets done in by Gorbachev’s willingness to alter system. Ultimately, what he did was bring it down.

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.

by Russ Oates on Feb 11, 2010 7:30 PM MST up reply actions  

You can blame the debt on Nixon taking us off of the gold standard.

The writer formerly known as Jabberwocky
READ and LEARN about the business of baseball at Purple Row Academy
Eschew Obfuscation!

by Jeff Aberle on Feb 11, 2010 4:18 PM MST up reply actions  

I wonder if you can come up with another example...

where one side of the conflict (and the losing side at that)was “100x” nore responsible for ending the conflict than the other. Was Nixon 100x more responsible for the US defeat in VietNam than Ho Chi Mihn? Was Napolean 100x the factor in losing Waterloo than Wellington?

Not being a Marxist, I don’t have much use for historical determinism. The collapse of communism was not inevitable, except in the sense that nothing lasts forever. It certainly wasn’t expected to collapse in my lifetime.

Ignorance of the American League is a sign of good moral character.
Look out Dodgers...Purple objects in mirror are closer than they appear.

by RdRnnr on Feb 10, 2010 7:43 PM MST up reply actions  

Since we're on the topic of Reagan..

have you guys heard the story about how Reagan’s security council discovered the Soviets were stealing American technology and sabotaged it causing the Siberian Oil pipeline to explode! It’s known as the Farewell Dossier.

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by Charlie77 on Feb 10, 2010 8:40 PM MST up reply actions  

The collapse of the USSR was inevitable

and had been since the middle of Brezhnev. There were warning signs for at least 15 years before the fall of the Berlin Wall. All of the old guard was dying off and the younger generations didn’t want more of the same.

The rate at which the government collapsed is absolutely stunning, however, and we still can’t comprehend everything that occurred.

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 11, 2010 11:55 AM MST up reply actions  

I don't know that he ended the

Cold War but I will say that he rallied this country at a time when it was pretty down. Blaming him for the invention of crack cocaine and the subsequent destruction of the black community seems a little unfair as it would just as likely have happened on anyone’s watch. The true value of Reagan will be known in time as the emotional attachment fades, but I do think that the same pundits who accuse the latest protesters of being racially motivated are either forgetting the backlash that Reagan and Thatcher dealt with or are being intellectually dishonest

Belief that success is inevitable is as likely to hold you back as a belief that it is impossible.

by TomCat009 on Feb 12, 2010 4:39 AM MST up reply actions  

When I was in 4th grade

my teacher taught is a rhyme or chant to remember all the presidents in order, using shortened versions of their last names. I can now only remember it through the first 13. But I’ve got those 13 down cold.

Wash Ad Jeff Mad Mon Ad Jack, Van Har Ty, Po Tay Fill.

by holly96 on Feb 10, 2010 1:24 PM MST up reply actions  

Use this to remember

"I'm convinced that every boy, in his heart, would rather steal second base than an automobile." ~Tom Clark

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 10, 2010 1:45 PM MST up reply actions  

What geniuses the Animaniacs were

They also will help you remember the US Capitols and the Countries of the World. I laugh so hard when I watch these.

by controlled_slide on Feb 10, 2010 1:56 PM MST up reply actions  

The countries one is incredable

(Although they never mention South Africa)

"I'm convinced that every boy, in his heart, would rather steal second base than an automobile." ~Tom Clark

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 10, 2010 2:04 PM MST up reply actions  

The last verse is awesome

You hear the first couple and you’re like “I can learn that” and then the last verse comes and you just start laughing.

"I'm convinced that every boy, in his heart, would rather steal second base than an automobile." ~Tom Clark

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 10, 2010 2:11 PM MST up reply actions  

I never realised how radical Animaniacs was

But naming Tibet, Palestine and, uh, Transylvania as separate countries was clearly a powerful act of political subterfuge.

by biondino on Feb 11, 2010 5:40 AM MST up reply actions  

Funny thing about Chester A. Arthur

Arthur’s primary achievement was the passage of the Pendleton Civil Service Reform Act. Nothing else really

Dex Knows
Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. -C.S. Lewis

by RockiesDave on Feb 10, 2010 11:55 AM MST up reply actions  

true

Dex Knows
Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. -C.S. Lewis

by RockiesDave on Feb 10, 2010 11:57 AM MST up reply actions  

I prefer

the look James G. Blaine had. Always wonder what he’d have done as president.

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.

by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 11:58 AM MST up reply actions  

kind of Lee/Grant look

Dex Knows
Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. -C.S. Lewis

by RockiesDave on Feb 10, 2010 12:00 PM MST up reply actions  

Okay Muzia

So give us your impassioned defense of Hoover.

I can haz NL West title in 2010? And for that matter, the damn 2010 season to START?

by Silverblood on Feb 10, 2010 11:54 AM MST up reply actions  

well

he was a very intelligent man who saved Europe from starvation during and after the Great War. His tireless public service saved tens of millions of lives.

His downfall was twofold (neither one of which was really his fault). He was elected President with no previous electoral experience and very little political acumen. He was elected President on the verge of a worldwide economic (and in the United States, ecological) crisis. Most people blame him for allowing the Depression to reach such depths, but there was no precedent for any leader to take major steps, therefore how was he to blame?

Without Hoover, FDR would not stand out as one of our greatest presidents. Hoover’s inability to act in an original manner was his downfall, not necessarily because of anything he did as president.

He does not belong on a list of worst presidents. He was just a very smart man with little experience in way over his (and everyone else’s) head.

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 12:02 PM MST up reply actions  

We'd like to thank you Herbert Hooooover...

for really showing us the way….

I can haz NL West title in 2010? And for that matter, the damn 2010 season to START?

by Silverblood on Feb 10, 2010 12:07 PM MST up reply actions  

One of my favorite quotes about Hoover was from Babe Ruth when his salary was high than the president's

When asked if he should be making more money than the president, Ruth replied “I think so, I had a better year than he did”

"I'm convinced that every boy, in his heart, would rather steal second base than an automobile." ~Tom Clark

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 10, 2010 1:19 PM MST up reply actions  

Well I don't think he was as bad as lets say

James Buchanon.

"I'm convinced that every boy, in his heart, would rather steal second base than an automobile." ~Tom Clark

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 10, 2010 1:14 PM MST up reply actions  

I've also done

this: http://qcpages.qc.edu/history/wwiiveterans/index.html

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.

by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 12:10 PM MST reply actions  

Nice

you have some html skills to go along with the history

Dex Knows
Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. -C.S. Lewis

by RockiesDave on Feb 10, 2010 12:14 PM MST up reply actions  

Should've explained a bit more.

I did most of the research that went into the website. I didn’t build the website. I do know a bit of HTML. Back before we had this version of PR, I did plenty of coding.

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.

by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 12:16 PM MST up reply actions  

I helped with a similar project here at CU

when I worked in the University Archives, I assisted on the Japanese Language School project. During World War II, CU was home to the Naval School for Japanese translators, taught them the basics of the language in order to intercept and translate radio messages. It appears our projects were very similar.

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 12:17 PM MST up reply actions  

History Of Poland

Did you eve watch this show

Dex Knows
Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. -C.S. Lewis

by RockiesDave on Feb 10, 2010 2:08 PM MST reply actions  

/sigh

If only it wasn’t completely accurate. My Polish ancestors are weeping…

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 10, 2010 2:17 PM MST up reply actions  

Show-off

and nerd

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 10, 2010 2:19 PM MST reply actions  

Thank you.

/bows

"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.

by Russ Oates on Feb 10, 2010 2:21 PM MST up reply actions  

Quick question

Did Cortes invade Mexico for purely selfish motives?

Foxes are naughties

by crazedjohn on Feb 10, 2010 8:11 PM MST reply actions  

I did that same debate in high school...do you go to Poudre?

And the answer is no—not that you can prove anyway. Purely selfish is too exclusionary.

The writer formerly known as Jabberwocky
READ and LEARN about the business of baseball at Purple Row Academy
Eschew Obfuscation!

by Jeff Aberle on Feb 10, 2010 10:26 PM MST up reply actions  

Yep, Poudre

We lost though- total BS. The whole jury was corrupt.

Foxes are naughties

by crazedjohn on Feb 16, 2010 9:28 PM MST up reply actions  

Where's the Civil War discussion around here?

Here’s a question:
Was Lee wrong to order Pickett’s charge at the battle of Gettysburg?

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by Charlie77 on Feb 11, 2010 8:46 PM MST reply actions  

Should of listened to Longstreet

Dex Knows
Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. -C.S. Lewis

by RockiesDave on Feb 12, 2010 9:15 AM MST up reply actions  

I think if Stonewall had still been alive he would of agreed with Longstreet

Together they might of been able to convince Lee to either redeploy or attack around to the right. That said though there was also alot of pressure on Lee to destroy the union army itself rather than to try to get to Washington.

Dex Knows
Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. -C.S. Lewis

by RockiesDave on Feb 12, 2010 9:18 AM MST up reply actions  

I agree I think Lee knew that he was closing in on a win or die situation

I think his early success at getting the Union soldiers or more accurately their Generals to blink had colored his judgment.

Belief that success is inevitable is as likely to hold you back as a belief that it is impossible.

by TomCat009 on Feb 12, 2010 10:55 AM MST up reply actions  

Stonewall was arguably the greatest battlefield commander the U.S. has ever produced.

Approached only by George Patton and U.S. Grant IMO.

Shelby Foote is quoted as saying something to the effect that Gettysburg was the price the South had to pay for having Lee as commander.

The combination of defeat at Gettysburg and Vicksburg on the same day and the elevation of U.S. Grant to command of the Union forces is what finished off the South.

Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah, 1983

by pedalpusher on Feb 12, 2010 5:56 PM MST up reply actions  

Lee had to attack with Pickett's men at Gettysburg..

Gettysburg can be compared to Washington’s battle of Trenton. The south needed a victory on northern soil to bring Frances or Britain in as an ally. Washington’s victory at Trenton led to French funding and arms sales and ultimately independence. If Lee had won at Gettysburg the CSA might have won the war.

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by Charlie77 on Feb 12, 2010 10:02 PM MST up reply actions  

Hey why is TDR's The Naval War of 1812 not on this list?

or for that matter Winston Churchhill’s histories? this list is leaning a bit and may topple completely with even one more Chomsky addition

Belief that success is inevitable is as likely to hold you back as a belief that it is impossible.

by TomCat009 on Feb 12, 2010 4:33 AM MST reply actions  

Happy Birthday Mr Abraham Lincoln!

I can honestly say you were my favorite president. It’s a shame you weren’t allowed to finish your work on this earth.

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by Charlie77 on Feb 12, 2010 12:46 PM MST via mobile reply actions  

I actually think his plan of reconstruction was too lenient

"I'm convinced that every boy, in his heart, would rather steal second base than an automobile." ~Tom Clark

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 12, 2010 1:30 PM MST up reply actions  

I think segregation might still exist today if Lincoln got his way

That 14th amendment is pretty key.

"I'm convinced that every boy, in his heart, would rather steal second base than an automobile." ~Tom Clark

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 12, 2010 2:50 PM MST up reply actions  

it's a fascinating argument

what would have happened if there was a strong leader in the Executive keeping the fiery Republican Congress in line? Would the South have kept along a similar path? Segregation never really disappeared, it just submerged for the 15 years of Reconstruction and once the Southern states were in charge of their own congresses again, it became commonplace once again. You could make a very persuasive argument.

Attention Whore.

by Muzia on Feb 12, 2010 3:08 PM MST up reply actions  

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