Wednesday Rockpile: Division rivals could get crunched by arbitration; O'Dowd denies interest in Wellemeyer
A pair of divisional rivals seem more likely to face arbitration hearings with important rotation parts. Neither the Giants and Tim Lincecum nor the Diamondbacks and Edwin Jackson have been able to resolve their different opinions of the players' value. In both cases, the teams are already close to (or in the D-backs case, over) their projected 2010 salary levels, so player wins in these arbitration hearings could conceivably help the Rockies this season by making it more difficult for the Giants and Snakes to add help later.
****
Other than that, for the Rockies Tuesday was notable for who's not going to be part of the team:
For instance, the Rockies aren't going to sign Joe Beimel, according to a Troy Renck report.
****
The second person the Rockies aren't signing has something to do with a subject I meant to bring up this past weekend, namely a comparison of the different recovery timelines of Brandon Webb and Jeff Francis.
In their most recent Rowbot Radio podcast, Andrew and Greg brought up Francis' situation again and shared their thoughts so be sure to listen to that, but it did get me to thinking. As fans, we're sort of left in the dark when it comes to athlete injuries and what to expect in their recovery from surgery, as most of us are not practicing physicians. What we can do, however, is look for certain flagposts along the way that tell us how far out they are. In Francis' case, let's go back to the Denver Post report from a month ago, and here's the key quote:
He threw well in simulated games in September and followed that with a strong showing in the Arizona instructional league. That left him to proceed through an uninterrupted winter program - long toss, and starting next week, mound work - which will be capped with a 10-day stay in the Dominican Republic before spring training.
I think the Rockies rotation overall does take a small step back this season about a win or so, but I'm in the camp that they will still likely be the best in the division in value after park effects are taken into account.
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Giants just signed the mighty Wellemeyer to
a minor league deal
TULO = 2010 MVP!
Troy Tulowitzki: "When people think of the Rockies, I want them to think of a winning organization."
LETS GO WINGS!
Francis
Even if Francis can just get 10 wins and keep an ERA around 4.00 (or less), I would think it would be a successful comeback season. I thnk Ubaldo and De La Rosa will get 15+ wins this year, then throw in Cook maybe with 12 wins, and Hammell 10 wins, that is a pretty good staff. We though need to get Bucholz back by mid/late season though!
A Rockies fan living in St. Louis "Cardinals HELL" GO ROCKIES!
by denverfan12 on Feb 10, 2010 10:28 AM MST up reply actions
He'd also be setting a career low ERA.
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good catch
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 10, 2010 10:48 AM MST up reply actions
Posted in the last rockpile, worth reposting here.
Part two of AZ Snakepit’s interview with Josh Byrnes is up.
AZ: Looing at the other NL West teams in 2010, it seems like a fairly-even division. Who would you say poses the biggest threat?
JB: I think, right now, the Rockies. Obviously, the Rockies and the Dodgers made the playoffs last year, and deserve the status associated with that, and I think the Rockies saw a little bit less attrition through the off-season. Bring Jeff Francis back and retaining Betancourt, and some of their young players will probably get more opportunities – Carlos Gonzalez, Ian Stewart. – so they’re a pretty solid team. A team as good as they are, as deep as they are; their starting pitching was really solid. de la Rosa and Hammel stabilized it. I agree, it’s a balanced division and a lot of teams can make the argument, "playoff worthy," "90 wins", whatever. But I think, right now, the Rockies probably have the fewest questions.
Good stuff
I also like how he compliments the Rockies depth a bit further down.
Having depth is great: again, I give the Rockies a lot of credit, because they had depth, they had a lot of players whose playing-time was a bit compromised. But they bought in, and it was a real strength of theirs, that they managed the situation with the Ianetta/Torrealba situation; Seth Smith, Dexter Fowler, Carlos Gonzalez, and the rotation of that; Atkins and Stewart and Barmes. Having depth and having a real team dynamic is a very powerful thing.
Caution: Colorado teams are better than they appear.
by ShadowPenguin on Feb 10, 2010 2:35 PM MST up reply actions
Patrick Saunders kindly emailed me
To say he’d like to use my question for Jim Tracy! (not that that’s a guarantee, I’m sure, but nice to get such a positive response – I wonder if my being British – and mentioning the fact – helped?)
Being a Brit
is a hook they look for.
"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.
I got a nice email saying
that he liked some of my questions. I wasn’t sure if that was a compliment or not. :)
I hope the row dominates with great questions.
Wellemeyer!?! Giants!
Well, lets hope Wellemeyer makes the Giants club, I seen him pitch for the Cards…he will get ROCKED if you know what I mean!
A Rockies fan living in St. Louis "Cardinals HELL" GO ROCKIES!
Self-castration is rough.
Wait, is that even a good joke?
"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.
Excellent.
I’ll leave it there before the admins are forced to pull out the old banhammer for throwing Wang around..
Jamie McCourt mishandles Wang?
Troy Tulowitzki - Best SS in the MLB - 2010 MVP
"With a guy like Melo, it’s tough to stop him with one person. You can’t. I don’t know one guy who can stop Melo on a consistent basis."-CP3
Brad Hawpe - Will prove the doubters wrong
PS Let's win the NL West in 2010, shall we?
I see all these new comments, I excitedly click to open the story...
and it’s all Wang jokes. Good job PR.
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At least it's not panda porn
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by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 10, 2010 4:13 PM MST up reply actions
This made me lol.
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
by A.J. Haefele on Feb 10, 2010 10:30 AM MST up reply actions
Ned Colletti spends day watching Wang.
Dodgers very interested in Wang.
Wang rising again following injury.
Nationals grab Wang in last minute signing.
this
Wang rising again following injury.
made me lol
Ninety feet between home plate and first base may be the closest man has ever come to perfection. ~Red Smith
last year i correctly noted that
Wang was getting beaten badly. Someone commented that she had been enjoying this website until my display of adolescent inappropriate jokes. Or something like that
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 10, 2010 11:08 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
yeah geez grow up pf
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 10, 2010 11:09 AM MST up reply actions
"This is our new pitcher, Mr. Wang"
No offense.
Rox Girl,
You’re making it awfully hard to keep the “cautiously” in “cautiously optomistic.”
"I clearly miscalculated how popular it would be to show Calvin urinating on a Ford logo"--Bill Watterson
by frightened inmate #2 on Feb 10, 2010 10:33 AM MST reply actions
Take out the picture...
and your subject line would fit in the Wang thread.
"I clearly miscalculated how popular it would be to show Calvin urinating on a Ford logo"--Bill Watterson
by frightened inmate #2 on Feb 10, 2010 11:02 AM MST up reply actions
from Keith law's twitter
The cf wall at citi field will he lowered right feet “they will also shorten the basepaths to 45 feet and allow their 7-9 hitters to hit off a tee”
Retweet from eric stengel: “the mets are lowering their center field wall. They want to do all they can to make sure they lead the league in blown saves”
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 10, 2010 11:38 AM MST via mobile reply actions
They'll still only win 78 games
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 10, 2010 11:39 AM MST up reply actions
lowered *eight feet
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 10, 2010 11:39 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
They kept mentioning Webb on XM HomePlate
Last night and this morning. Apparently he did throw off the mound yesterday. There was a great deal of banter regarding how critical he is to their rotation, blah, blah, blah. No mention of Francis and the impact he will have on our rotation.
Sometimes it irks me this team doesn’t get talked about more, but on the other hand, it’s good. It will allow us to sneak up on people.
Well, at the same time
Webb was a stud, won a Cy Young and finished 2nd in 2 others.
Francis won 17 games once
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 10, 2010 11:40 AM MST up reply actions
How many NLCS wins does Webb have?
I can’t remember.
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Basing any one argument on one singular game is just silly
A couple different bounces and the entire argument would be reversed.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 10, 2010 9:10 PM MST up reply actions
he doesn't have any
just so happens he’s a far better pitcher than Jeff Francis.
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 10, 2010 9:19 PM MST up reply actions
Can anyone explain what the Giants are doing with Timmah?!?
Do they really think 8 is a fair number? Do they really not see that they’re poisoning the relationship? Do they not know that someday he’ll be a real free-agent with real options? Or they really this dumb?
Ignorance of the American League is a sign of good moral character.
Look out Dodgers...Purple objects in mirror are closer than they appear.
That absolutely baffles me as well
this is a perfect spot for Jabbs to tune in, but neither side has budged, and the Giants are going to lose arguably the best pitcher in baseball in like 2 or 3 years.
That said, can you imagine how much he’ll make on the open market?
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 10, 2010 11:43 AM MST up reply actions
There is probably pressure on the FO
to not submit a record breaking number. It’s just the nightmare that is arbitration.
but not even budging? It's like they're standing on principle or something
and that principle is apparently “we’ll pay garbage baseball players way too much and not pay the best in baseball what he should be making”
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 10, 2010 11:45 AM MST up reply actions
If they stay at $8M and it goes to a hearing
then it will probably wind up at $10.5M considering they usually split the difference. That would break Ryan Howard’s record. If they put up a bigger number, less than the $13M he wants it would just drive the final number higher.
Timmy is a pretty unique case though given his age and awards which will play very heavily in his favor at the hearing. At this point they can still settle on a contract but Timmy & his agent haven’t seemed to be pleased with what’s been offered so far at all.
I'm pretty sure that arbitration is winner-take-all
They can’t split the difference.
Ignorance of the American League is a sign of good moral character.
Look out Dodgers...Purple objects in mirror are closer than they appear.
If the offer is part of a negotiating stregy, and they settle before arb, then it makes sense (sorta)
But nothing looks like they are getting close to a settlement, and Timmy and his agent HAVE to know that the arbitrator is likely to laugh the Giants offer out of the room!
Ignorance of the American League is a sign of good moral character.
Look out Dodgers...Purple objects in mirror are closer than they appear.
I think they assumed they could get a contract before the hearing.
I still don’t understand why they’ve only talked about a 2yr deal. They may just be less confident that he’ll avoid injury, that’s about the only way it even begins to make sense.
It seems like putting in such a low offer
would actually hurt their negotiating position. Lincecum and his agent know that the odds of the arbitrator siding with them is greater than if the Giants had made a reasonable offer, so there is no pressure for them to agree to a contract. Plus, they probably don’t want to do anything long term now because the Gints have shown they don’t want to pay him fairly.
If it goes to a hearing it will be 8 or 13 million
Those middle numbers come from the sides settling before the hearing. Once it goes into hearing the arbitration panel has to choose one or the other
by Chacinisthefuture on Feb 10, 2010 11:58 AM MST up reply actions
He won't make any money on the open market
As his right arm will have torn free from his tiny frail body.
by controlled_slide on Feb 10, 2010 11:45 AM MST up reply actions
I've been patiently awaiting his arm to break off
and so far he’s disappointed me. Hopefully for the Rockies’ sake his drop in velocity is a sign of things to come.
I sorta don't like him that much
And wonder if I’d even like him if he pitched for the Rockies (but I probably would).
by controlled_slide on Feb 10, 2010 12:11 PM MST up reply actions
wait...wat?
you don’t Timmah? Do tell why
Troy Tulowitzki - Best SS in the MLB - 2010 MVP
"With a guy like Melo, it’s tough to stop him with one person. You can’t. I don’t know one guy who can stop Melo on a consistent basis."-CP3
Brad Hawpe - Will prove the doubters wrong
PS Let's win the NL West in 2010, shall we?
I don't really have very good reasons
I don’t like his long hippie hair. He seems to think a lot of himself. I also have this anti-hype backlash against athletes who are endlessly touted by the press. When everyone – or, more specifically when a large portion of writers whom I dislike – fawns over someone (or a team, like the Red Sox or Cubs), then I reflexively dislike that player, and when everyone bags on someone, I tend to root for them. This is part of the reason that I rooted for the Yankees this past World Series: writers who like the Red Sox slammed the Yankees for the past decade, so I wanted them to win to shove it in the faces of all those writers. It’s very complicated, and I only slightly understand it myself. It’s a gut reaction thing.
by controlled_slide on Feb 10, 2010 12:58 PM MST up reply actions
ohhh well that's cool
I was thinking you didn’t like him as far as talent wise?
Troy Tulowitzki - Best SS in the MLB - 2010 MVP
"With a guy like Melo, it’s tough to stop him with one person. You can’t. I don’t know one guy who can stop Melo on a consistent basis."-CP3
Brad Hawpe - Will prove the doubters wrong
PS Let's win the NL West in 2010, shall we?
No no no
He’s an awfully good pitcher.
by controlled_slide on Feb 10, 2010 1:10 PM MST up reply actions
I've always viewed him as somewhat of an underdog
since nearly every team thought his delivery would prevent him from being a major league pitcher. He’s done a great job proving everyone wrong (I just wish it was in a different division). Plus his delivery and domination is quite a sight to watch.
I would LOVE to have Timmeh
Troy Tulowitzki - Best SS in the MLB - 2010 MVP
"With a guy like Melo, it’s tough to stop him with one person. You can’t. I don’t know one guy who can stop Melo on a consistent basis."-CP3
Brad Hawpe - Will prove the doubters wrong
PS Let's win the NL West in 2010, shall we?
The Giants should place a dollar..
on the mound for Timmeh to pick up everytime he throws the ball. Even warmup pitches.
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Maybe that will somewhat make up for the
despicable offer they made him…
Troy Tulowitzki - Best SS in the MLB - 2010 MVP
"With a guy like Melo, it’s tough to stop him with one person. You can’t. I don’t know one guy who can stop Melo on a consistent basis."-CP3
Brad Hawpe - Will prove the doubters wrong
PS Let's win the NL West in 2010, shall we?
Can you imagine the posts over at DP if he hits the market...
WE MUTS HAVE TIM LINCHUM OR THE MUNFURTS BAD WNERS!!!
by Chacinisthefuture on Feb 10, 2010 12:00 PM MST up reply actions
Well, Lincecum will have four years of arbitration eligibility as a Super Two player...
the thing with the Lincecum hearing is that both sides will agree that he is awesome. They will disagree about precedent, or in Timmah’s case the lack thereof. Problem for the Giants is, Lincecum’s resume is incredible any way you look at it and the $5 million gap is a poor choice. If I were the Giants, I’d have submitted a $10 million offer.
I’ll write about this in more detail when I get time for PR Academy (likely Friday/Saturday), but I think that Lincecum will win this case handily.
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by Jeff Aberle on Feb 10, 2010 12:06 PM MST up reply actions
Yeah
If they don’t sign him long-term prior to his final arbitration seasons. and he wins this year with 13 million I don’t envy the financial package they’ll be paying him his last year of arb.
by Chacinisthefuture on Feb 10, 2010 12:08 PM MST up reply actions
I wonder if their strategy is to joinj us in hoping that his arm falls off before that happens.
At least that way they get all the value out of him!
Ignorance of the American League is a sign of good moral character.
Look out Dodgers...Purple objects in mirror are closer than they appear.
The 4th year of arb if he continues pitching like he has
I wouldn’t be surprised to see a 25 million dollar award
by Chacinisthefuture on Feb 10, 2010 12:16 PM MST up reply actions
I'm looking forward to this.
I know there are a lot of people here who are smarter than me, and I hope that somebody can make some sense of this.
Ignorance of the American League is a sign of good moral character.
Look out Dodgers...Purple objects in mirror are closer than they appear.
I totally agree
I was offended by their offer. Imagine how he feels.
I believe in a risen Francis
by Rawktober on Feb 10, 2010 1:11 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
If the Giants do lose him
a) serves them right
b) can you imagine the Golden Gate Bridge-jumping by the McCoven?
I can haz NL West title in 2010? And for that matter, the damn 2010 season to START?
by Silverblood on Feb 10, 2010 12:21 PM MST up reply actions
I can't imagine the Giants losing him unless they actually do believe that he's going to have arm troubles sooner rather than later in his career
Or unless they’re being managed excessively poorly. It doesn’t make sense from any perspective to lose him. He helps you win games, he’s a fan favorite and he draws crowds.
by controlled_slide on Feb 10, 2010 12:25 PM MST up reply actions
Yeah yeah yeah
But I really don’t think they’re being managed that badly.
by controlled_slide on Feb 10, 2010 12:28 PM MST up reply actions
But it would be fun to watch if it did happen
I can haz NL West title in 2010? And for that matter, the damn 2010 season to START?
by Silverblood on Feb 10, 2010 12:32 PM MST up reply actions
Yeah
You don’t let a guy like that go unless his arm actually does fly off and hit the ump.
I can haz NL West title in 2010? And for that matter, the damn 2010 season to START?
by Silverblood on Feb 10, 2010 12:28 PM MST up reply actions
And even then
You try to sew it back on and see if he can still throw a few more sliders.
by controlled_slide on Feb 10, 2010 12:28 PM MST up reply actions
Another helpful tip to Giants fans from your friends at PurpleRow
LOL
Ignorance of the American League is a sign of good moral character.
Look out Dodgers...Purple objects in mirror are closer than they appear.
I can just picture the Giants trying to defend the 8 million in the arb hearing
“Aww come on!!! 8 million is more than fair for a guy who hit .152 last year.”
"I'm convinced that every boy, in his heart, would rather steal second base than an automobile." ~Tom Clark
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 10, 2010 2:21 PM MST up reply actions
Not to mention that he struck out 261 times last year.
Mark Reynolds didn’t even have that many.
Now there are reports that the Giants had offered 3y/$37M
Timmy countered with something over $40M and they haven’t talked in a few days. They still have time to get a deal done.
If I had a vote
I would have given the CY nod to him over Carp just to drive his price up
Heard a singer on the radio late last night
He says he's gonna kick the darkness
'til it bleeds daylight
One day — perhaps it will come this season — Jimenez will understand just how much better he is than nearly every hitter he faces and begin to dominate for weeks at a time, rather than innings at a time.
I really hope that this comes about.
by controlled_slide on Feb 10, 2010 1:02 PM MST up reply actions
Agree, it's been amazing to see his growth
in talent and confidence but he could easily shut down games with the right mindset. I feel good about his chances in 2010 especially given the total belief Tracy showed in him last year. I can’t remember which game it was but when he came out to the mound with one or two outs left while uball was struggling a bit I thought it was a true turning point for uball and the team as a whole. That moment really encapsulated the kind of faith Tracy was showing in the team.
Meanwhile someone writes this turd
"I clearly miscalculated how popular it would be to show Calvin urinating on a Ford logo"--Bill Watterson
by frightened inmate #2 on Feb 10, 2010 1:24 PM MST reply actions
that's just embarrassing
‘lets name ten great baseball players and say how they’d be good for a given baseball team’, I’d call this lazy hack writing on a Yankees blog, on a national sports website it’s just plain embarrassing.
Campaigning for more day baseball games since 2006
"Let's name 10 guys who would be awesome on the Yankees"
let’s name 10 guys who would be awesome no matter who they played for because they’re AWESOME PLAYERS.
What a garbage piece.
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 10, 2010 1:56 PM MST up reply actions
you know what would look great on the Yankees?
Fire.
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 10, 2010 2:00 PM MST up reply actions
This
"I'm convinced that every boy, in his heart, would rather steal second base than an automobile." ~Tom Clark
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 10, 2010 2:26 PM MST up reply actions
What's the point of Klapisch'
He names 3 starting pitchers, 2 first basemen, 3 outfielders, a catcher and a second basemen.
They need… maybe one of those things? Why do people waste clicks on a keyboard with the idea that the Yankees spend for the fun of it? They are excessive; however, they don’t buy excess. That means they don’t double down on all-stars at the same position.
Plus, they are surely going to be on a kamikaze mission to keep Jeter in pinstripes until the end of days. If you want to root for the demise of the Yankees, root for them to sign Jeter to a 4/$100M contract. Between that, CC, A-Rod and Tex, in about 5 years the Yanks are going to be old and bloated.
As a reporter, and one who wrote for a NJ paper covering the Yankees, is he not aware that when the Yanks missed the ‘08 playoffs they lost money? They can’t go much beyond $200M while maintaining profitability. If their play slips and interest wanes, which will happen once the long-term contracts age (because they won’t be tradeable), they won’t be able to be anywhere near $200M again.
they don’t double down on all-stars at the same position.
AROD was playing short before he got there.
"I'm convinced that every boy, in his heart, would rather steal second base than an automobile." ~Tom Clark
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 10, 2010 2:28 PM MST up reply actions
They signed him to play third base
not short. They didn’t then go out and sign Tejeda to back up Jeter, which is my point. They can’t carry $20M players at the same position. Nor could they have a $100M rotation, a $60M outfield, a $80M infield, and a billion dollar bullpen.
The Yankees aren’t worse than AIDS or Hitler, and it would be nice if someone was willing to acknowledge that.
High payrolls are the Dodgers fault, anyway.
Nobody here is accusing the Yankees of being worse than AIDS or Hitler
We’re simply looking at the Yankees in a baseball context and from that standpoint, we don’t like the way they do business. In a baseball context it’s perfectly acceptable to hate the Yankees. As RMN said in one of these threads; the Yankees don’t have to be smart to be good.
And I’m not sure it you’re reffering to the Yankees rotation/infield/outfield/bullpen payroll individually or all together but the Yankees infield payroll alone is over 80 million dollars.
"I'm convinced that every boy, in his heart, would rather steal second base than an automobile." ~Tom Clark
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 10, 2010 3:54 PM MST up reply actions
Collectively
I get the point you’re (all) trying to make, but people have been making it for ten years. It’s not even a dead horse anymore, it’s a rotting carcass. It’s like picking on the fat kid in high school 15 years after you’ve graduated. Yeah, he eats a lot of cake, but it doesn’t do him any good. Yeah, the Yankees spend a lot, but it doesn’t always mean they win.
Instead of complaining about it, teams figured out ways to beat it: signing talented young players early to avoid expensive arbitration or free agency, stopped signing aging talent to large contracts in the hope they’d hit homeruns like they were 27, put a premium on cheaper, defensive oriented players, and ceasing to pay position player pricing to relievers who pitch 40 or 50 innings per year.
It goes on, and it doesn’t apply to every team, but it has made an impact. There are fewer gigantic free agent classes, and fewer young players for the Yankees to absorb. If these trends continue, and the Yankees keep committing to players through their mid-late 30s, the Yankees will be lucky to win a World Series every ten years.
I agree with you
but this was really bad. Like super really bad…
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
Yeah, Klapisch is beyond the pale
I think Klapisch knows the premise is nonsense, and intended the piece to be the usual February BS that would get hits and rile people but mean nothing.
but they'll make it to the playoffs 9 years out of 10
I understand it’s beating a dead horse, I guess, but the issue is that nobody’s burying the horse.
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 10, 2010 8:42 PM MST up reply actions
There wasn't a whole lot of parity in the AL in the past decade.
Will the Angels and Red Sox make it 6 out of 10 years? Will the Twins and A’s will make it 5 out of 10? I guess the chances for those teams to maintain their playoff appearance percentage is the same decade to decade?
And, what about the Braves winning the NL East 11 straight years? They had a top 5 payroll for 8 of those ten years, and clearly imported talent (Maddux, McGriff, etc).
The Braves were not spending 50-60 million dollars more than the next highest team though
"I'm convinced that every boy, in his heart, would rather steal second base than an automobile." ~Tom Clark
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 10, 2010 11:21 PM MST up reply actions
Here's the thing
The AL Central sucks right now. The AL West has sucked for awhile.
The AL Wild Card has come out of the AL East 6 of the past 10 years, and it’s been either Boston or New York each time. 8 of those 10 years, New York has taken the division, 1 wild card, and then missed the postseason entirely in 2008 – which was just superduper.
The ALC is a crapshoot typically, and the AL West is about to get more interesting, but if you look at the WC standings each year, the Yankees, Red Sox, and Angels are typically 5-10 wins above the next highest WC slot. For the Angels, this speaks to the competition in the AL West the past 5 years, but in the AL East, it’s not as if Toronto has been playing dead or anything, and while Tampa has hardly provided any real competition, they have fielded a better-to-good team since 2007 and still Boston and NY are crushing them.
The idea is that while other teams might make runs at it every year, they have windows of opportunity they need to take advantage of before burning the whole thing down and starting over.
Because the Yankees and Red Sox have the payroll to plug holes, their windows will never really close.
I’m not even saying “TEHY SIGN EVERY1” but look at the Yankees’ offseason – trading for Grandy and Vazquez. Granderson was supposedly not a payroll dump, and really, it’s a smart move, but the Vazquez trade was a salary dump for Atlanta.
The difference is that while other teams make smart moves looking long term, as far as freeing up salary and bringing in a young replacement, the team that can take up that salary that needed to be freed up will get that player for at least a couple of years in their prime or at least the beginning of the downslope.
Holliday is the example I think of, sort of. We got a great return on him, and frankly got lucky that Gonzalez took off the way he did down the stretch, but for most teams that get the young Austin Jackson type in return for their Curtis Granderson, but how long will it take for Austin Jackson to get to Granderson’s level of performance?
Both Holliday and Granderson are bad examples, because we know the circumstances with Holliday and Granderson really wasn’t making that much, but the point is that the Yankees can afford to take on salary that’s on the decline because even with the decline, he’ll still be positively productive.
Therefore, it doesn’t really matter how old the players are, they don’t have to make the wise decision moving forward, because there’ll always be some sort of productive salary dump that a rebuilding team will need to make.
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 11, 2010 9:41 AM MST up reply actions
Characterization of Granderson and Javy
You’re clearly right about Javy being a salary dump; and yeah, NOBODY in the league (probably not even the Red Sox right now) can afford to pay what the Yankees pay for their top 3, and then pay someone like Vazquez $14M or whatever. That was an opportunistic trade for the Yankees, but just as opportunistic for the Braves, as it allowed them to trade an area of excess for them (SP) and free up money to sign other players to fill multiple holes.
As for Granderson, I’d say that had at least something to do with money, even though the players exchanged ended up being a decent distribution of talent for a three way. But would Granderson have been traded if the Tigers hadn’t raped their system to trade for Cabrera, and let Ordonez’s option exercise? Probably not.
Both of those teams over-committed to players that couldn’t fill the needed roles. For the Braves, they’re saddled with Lowe’s contract. For the Tigers, Ordonez doesn’t hit much or play defense, Cabrera’s defense at third necessitated a shifting of players around the field and spending money on SS and catcher FAs, and Guillen’s contract just blew for what they got back in the last 2 years.
Neither of those teams spent their money well, and it caught up to them.
What I’m saying is that, yes, 2009 was ridiculous for the Yankees. However, it took a lot of little things to go right for them: Damon, Matsui and Posada all had up years for their age; Hughes dominated in the bullpen, and nobody got hurt.
Now they have all these players locked up through their mid/late 30s, and some into their 40s. Sure, by 2014, they’ll have a bunch of players off their books and a lot of money to spend, but where are they going to spend it?
Players are being bought out of their arb years, and in a lot of cases into their first or second FA years. This means that premier players will be much older than they were in the 90s and early 00s when they do hit free agency. So, a) fewer premier players will be available, and b) the Yankees will be paying for one or two good years, and then the decline. Even with a $200M to spend, they won’t be able to fill their holes.
They have $95M committed through 2013! That’s a lot of money to spend, but what if one of their current high priced studs turns into a pumpkin (or a Giambi)? Then they’re saddled with $20M+ in sunk costs, and have to spend another $10-20M to replace that production. Even without that hypo injury, they still don’t have the flexibility it would appear.
If the recession continues for another year or so, and revenues decline (and frankly, if American attitudes about what constitutes a fiscal luxury finally change), the Yankees aren’t spending $200M/year.
If you want to blame someone for the AL East pilfering two playoff spots every year, blame Selig for the Wild Card. The Red Sox and Yankees each make expensive complimentary moves because they know they’re this close to a playoff spot and it makes sense to spend an extra $20M.
Your points are lucid and well-spoken
and the way you put them, it’s hard to disagree with them.
the issue, as it always is, is that we don’t know what’s going to happen going forward.
The bottom line really is this:
10 Spending ability creates the ability to buy yourself out of bad situations.
20 Stupid spending doesn’t guarantee wins.
30 IF stupid spending != Wins GOTO 10
40 Win
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 12, 2010 10:34 AM MST up reply actions
Thanks
I understand where you and RIRF are coming from. (Not to imply you guys HATE the Yankees, but) I grew up in NY, and absolutely hated the Yankees. My friends were so die hard it made me sick, and is what drew me to the Rockies. I totally believed the spending was ridiculous, but over time I’ve come to see it differently (also, I went to college and met some Red Sox fans and developed a reflex for defending the Yankees as a way of defending being from NY).
As I’ve now written a decent sized essay worth of comments (2,591 words), I’ll leave it at: you’re absolutely right that there’s no way to downplay the ability to spend money on top of money in order to correct problems, but the market is changing in a way that is not going to benefit the Yankees long-term (in large part, because they are going to be old and obligated to those old players for a lot of money).
I just wanted to try to move the conversation from “the Yankees buy the world” to teams are doing other things to spend money well and stay competitive for longer periods of time. I didn’t quite get there, but there’s a conversation for non-Yankees fans that doesn’t involve squarely the former.
Anyway, I enjoyed the back and forth.
as the small teams get smarter
it’ll be harder for the yankees to get the big guys.
Moving the conversation still, a lot of the onus will start to shift to the big players, the matt holliday’s, etc. They’ll KNOW where the big money is, and even if the yankees can’t just buy everyone, other players might make themselves available for said BUYING EVERYONE.
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 12, 2010 11:56 AM MST up reply actions
Very fair
I do hate the Yankees (as I’m sure you’ve seem in the other thred) so my view is bias. I think we both like the way the smart small market teams do business and are hopeful of their success in the future but have different ways of expressing it.
You want to focus on the exact moves the small market teams have made (which is the nicer way of doing it) and I like to point out how much of an advantage a team like the Yankees has over the small market team and then say how impressive it is that the small market team can compete with the Yankees.
I think our real disagreement here is about how much of an advantage the big market teams will have in a few years.
"I'm convinced that every boy, in his heart, would rather steal second base than an automobile." ~Tom Clark
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 12, 2010 1:43 PM MST up reply actions
Please tell me you are not serious when you say the Yankees
will be lucky to win a World Series once every ten years if the current trends continue. Having a lot of players in their mid to late 30’s doesn’t automatically put you at a disadvantage. This year over half of the Yankees lineup (ARod, Jeter, Damon, Posada, and Matsui) were at least 34 and they didn’t seem to have much of a problem.
The Yankees payroll is talked about to death but that’s only because it’s so insanely out of control; and as much as it’s talked about, I still don’t think people realize how bad it has gotten. Think of it this way. The Red Sox (who are a big market team and waste copious amounts of money themselves) spent 80 million dollars less than the Yankees last season while they spent 50 million more than the Royals, and 60 million more than teams like the A’s and the Nats. This means that the Red Sox operated closer to teams like KC, Oakland, and Washington than they did the Yankees. This is pretty amazing when you consider that last year the Red Sox paid David Ortiz 13 million to hit .238, Jason Varitek 5 million to hit .209, Mike Lowell 12.5 million to play injured and run down, John Smoltz 5.5 million to post an 8.32 ERA, and Julio Lugo 9 million to play for St. Louis. The Red Sox are a big market team and should be grilled for many of the decisions they have made recently; but realize that last year they operated in a galaxy that is closer to some of the small market teams than the Yankees and you’ll start to see how enormous the Yankees advantage has become.
The issue of the Yankees payroll will always be talked about because many people will have a hard time giving them any credit for winning when they have access to that many more resources than everyone else.
"I'm convinced that every boy, in his heart, would rather steal second base than an automobile." ~Tom Clark
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 10, 2010 9:20 PM MST up reply actions
Large Market vs. Large Market
means nothing on its face. The Red Sox payroll is low because they’ve had a stronger influx of young talent than the Yankees. While the Yankees have aging players in traditionally highly paid positions (A-Rod, Mo, Jeter, Posada) and young(er) players locked up for high salaries through their mid/late 30s (Tex, CC, Burnett), the Red Sox have younger talent at key positions that they haven’t yet had to pay premium prices (Youkilis, VMart, Lester, Papelbon, Pedroia).
A closer look at the Red Sox payroll reveals that it will jump to the $165M range this year, and much higher in future years as their younger players (through arbitration or backloaded deals) reach higher salaries their payroll is going to approach the Yankees. Even without their Much like the Yankees didn’t have nearly the highest payroll when they were winning their 96-00 WSeries, the Red Sox are going through a similar faze.
Damon and Matsui had up years after trending downward and are of limited/no defensive value. They gave great years, but the probability of them having good years in the future is questionable enough that teams weren’t willing to make much of commitment to them this off-season.
Here are three reasons why the Yankees will be lucky to sustain their success beyond 4 years:
1. By 2014, A-Rod will be 39, Tex will be 34, CC will be 34, and Jeter will be 40 if he’s still playing. Posada, Pettitte and Mo will be retired. Burnett will be gone. That’s at least 5 key players gone, and they’ll be responsible for paying Hughes, Cano and Joba if they continue to develop.
2. Where are they going to get the FAs to replace all of those guys? Look at the Tulo, Felix, Pedroia, etc deals. As more mutually beneficial deals are struck between teams and young talent, the FA pool will be limited. There will be some expensive FA signings, but are they going to be able to replace 5 key positions with premier players? Probably not.
3. Their farm system is sparse. Beyond Jesus Montero, there is little in the system. This precludes trades for young, arbitration talent, and necessitates signing FAs to pricier contracts. It takes time to develop cheap talent, and not much help is on the way in the next few years. “Ohh but they’ll just sign everyone!!!” Well, they had the holes and didn’t sign Lackey or Holliday or any pricey FA this off-season because there’s an outer-limit to their payroll. They lost money when their payroll was $209M in decent economic times; for the foreseeable future their payroll will need to be lower to turn a profit.
It just sounds petty to bitch about the Yankees, and ignore that the market is changing the way teams can win. The ’09 Yankees will be the last of their super-budget teams to win a World Series.
by deacs on Feb 10, 2010 10:15 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I've been agreeing with most of what you've been saying about this
I’ll add that I don’t really hate the Yankees that much (I do hate the Red Sox, but for different reasons than payroll), and I think that the Rockies’ approach to winning (develop young, talented players, sign them through their peak years, trade them for more farm help or let them go before they get really expensive) is a better way to go, so they can spend whatever they want. I’d rather win with Tulo, Ubaldo and Stewart than hired guns like Rodriguez, Sabathia and Teixeira.
by controlled_slide on Feb 10, 2010 10:20 PM MST up reply actions
I completely agree on the young player model
being more fn to watch. I find it so much more satisfying to root for teams that have to actually develop players instead of just paying for the best free agent available.
"I'm convinced that every boy, in his heart, would rather steal second base than an automobile." ~Tom Clark
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 11, 2010 12:50 AM MST up reply actions
One thing I will say
is that I don’t think a lot of the mutually beneficial deals for young players buy out a lot of free agency years so the players will be a available, just slightly later….
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
Exactly
"I'm convinced that every boy, in his heart, would rather steal second base than an automobile." ~Tom Clark
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 11, 2010 12:51 AM MST up reply actions
I hope you're right.
I really, really do but the Yankees payroll will continue to be around 200 million dollars for the foreseeable future. When players like Posada, Pettite, Jeter, Burnett, and Rivera are off the team, the Yankees will then just have 75-85 million more to spend on other players. While you make a lot of very strong points about the future of the free agent classes, I still don’t think it’s going to alter the Yankees model. There will be fewer good free agents but the Yankees will still get the best players available. It’s the teams that the Yankees outbid like the Mets and the Red Sox that are going to feel the pain from this because that’s where the bottom will drop out of the free agent market. The Yankees will continue to benefit both from signing free agents and from situations like the Javy Vasquez one this offseason where the Braves couldn’t afford the 11.5 million.
As far as the Red Sox go, 2010 will be the closest they have been to the Yankees payroll since 2002. (The Yankees have spent at least 57 million more than the Red Sox during each of the last seven seasons) The reason the Red Sox now have to go out and start spending like the Yankees by signing players like Lackey, Cameron, and Beltre is because their farm system has stopped producing good young players. In 07 the Red Sox saw guys like Lester, Papelbon, Ellsbury, Bucholtz and Pedroia all make contributions to their team. Since then Daniel Bard is the only guy they have produced. Now that they have had almost no good young players coming out of the minors (just like the Yankees) they have to go out and start spending like the Yankees. (It’s important to distinguish 2010 from previous years with the Red Sox because this is a little bit of a game changer for them. Their payroll this year and only this year moves them up a step from the past and closer to the Yankees personal stratosphere.)
And it’s perfectly acceptable to bitch about the Yankees payroll because lately spending lots of money = winning the World Series. (Red Sox 07, Phils 08, and Yankees last year) It was actually earlier in the decade when the Yankees payroll wasn’t quite as out of control and before other big market teams started chasing them that teams like the Marlins and Angels won with small payrolls. (There also a really, really strong correlation to spending money and making the playoffs)
"I'm convinced that every boy, in his heart, would rather steal second base than an automobile." ~Tom Clark
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 11, 2010 12:47 AM MST up reply actions
Money
The Yankees WILL continue to spend in the future, but will it be as effective as 2009? No, because (as I said in a post above replying to AMart), they will be paying for a) older players and b) fewer premier players.
For teams like the Tigers, Twins, Rockies, doing team friendly contracts for young stars means a better distribution of payroll, and more money to spread around the diamond. This may not impact the Yankees/Sox, but if they take the middling FAs off the market, then bigger market teams must compete for the few premier FAs out there, saddling them with either a less talented free agent or a monstrous contract.
You’re neglecting that the Yankees of the 90s won with young, self-developed talent, and then paid for that young talent, which limited their flexibility to fill future holes in the 00s. They spent a lot in the last ten years, but not necessarily effectively.
The Marlins are freaks at scouting and developing, so I don’t know what to say about that. But the Angels, shortly after winning the WS, had to pay for their young talent. So their payroll inflated like the Yankees of ‘00 to ’08. Not having the revenue resources of the Yanks, they couldn’t fix their mistakes, but it’s the same premise.
The Yankees also are a total anomaly in terms of ownership. There are lots of rich owners, but few teams that haven’t changed ownership in 40 years, that own their stadiums, own a TV network, and have a huge brand.
If you really want things to change quickly (quicker than the market changes that are currently taking place), advocate for a ban on augmenting payroll with organization-owned TV stations (not broadcast rights, but the revenues from the station), or limit the ways teams can augment payroll costs with revenues outside of baseball ops.
Also, the Sox have Casey Kelly coming soon, and Westmoreland and Reddick for the OF. Their system is in better shape than the Yanks.
This discussion is starting to dissolve into several smaller discussions
and I think has gone about as far as it can go. I don’t think I’m gonna change your mind and you’re not gonna change mine. I agree with a lot of the individual points you made but you’re not going to convince me that spending more twice as much money as more than half of the other teams in baseball isn’t a huge advantage (or that it won’t be a huge advantage in the furture).
I’ll just bring it back to my general stance on the issue.
Having a payroll as big as the Yankees should allow you to make the playoffs just about every season. Once the playoffs start, anything can happen. It doesn’t matter if you’re the Wild Card team or if you had the best record in baseball; short series can be fluky. (The best team will win more often but it’s still tough for them to get through three short series) Problem is that since the Yankees are going to be there just about every single year, they are going to win the World Series at least every once in a while whether they spend the money wisely or not.
"I'm convinced that every boy, in his heart, would rather steal second base than an automobile." ~Tom Clark
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 11, 2010 10:16 PM MST up reply actions
Teams like the Twins, Rockies, and Rays
have to get everything right.
"I'm convinced that every boy, in his heart, would rather steal second base than an automobile." ~Tom Clark
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 11, 2010 10:18 PM MST up reply actions
A couple or three things
1) I’d never argue that the Yankees being able to spend significantly more than any other team doesn’t constitute a huge advantage; it does. However, they don’t spend “double” the next highest team. The most they’ve spent relative to the second highest payroll is 62% more (‘09: 35%, ’08: 51%, ’07: 33%, 06: 62%, ’05: 60%, ’04: 45%, ’03: 30%, ’02: 16%, ’01: 2%, ’00: 3%). That’s a big advantage, but notice that the more they spent relative to other teams, the worse they did.
2) How much of an advantage does that much money give you? I don’t know. Here are the numbers of top 10 payrolls that made the playoffs over the last ten years, 2000-‘09: 4/10, 4/10, 4/10, 4/10, 6/10, 5/10, 3/10, 4/10, 5/10, 5/10. That’s a hell of an advantage when only one year was the distribution of playoff spots between teams in the top 1/3 and lower 2/3 even. As mentioned, the Red Sox and Angels both made the playoffs 6 times, and were in the top 1/3 the majority of the decade.
3) In what way did the 2007 Rockies “get everything right”? Or, the other two teams? The ‘07 Rockies went from dead to Wild Card in a month. For that month, they did everything right; the rest of the season was middling at best. The Rays were a joke for a decade, and while I’ve noted on this site before that it’s not all about having top draft picks, that didn’t help. The Twins played in a shitty division where everybody pounded the Tigers and Royals for most of the decade, and the division usually came down to a coin flip.
My point was never about all that other crap. It was simply:
There was a time when the Yankees spent money and lost. All through the 80s and early 90s. Instead of pissing and moaning about high payrolls, people should be looking at what other teams are doing to build sustainable runs to the playoffs, because as you said, once you’re there, anything can happen. The Twins and A’s both made the playoffs 5 times in the last decade. What did they do right?
Nobody ever asks, because they’re too busy worrying about the Yankees’ payroll. But, I’ve explained what they did right: taking a chance by buying out arb and 1/2 FA years, stopped signing 29-30-31-32 year old players to large or long deals, emphasized defense, and identified which skills deteriorate less quickly than others.
Who are you referring to here?
You’re neglecting that the Yankees of the 90s won with young, self-developed talent, and then paid for that young talent, which limited their flexibility to fill future holes in the 00s. They spent a lot in the last ten years, but not necessarily effectively.
What holes were they not able to plug? The only one I really see is CF, sort of (Damon started at CF and when Matsui started to deteriorate, he moved to LF), and RF.
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 12, 2010 10:36 AM MST up reply actions
(btw that wasn't written in a combative tone)
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 12, 2010 10:37 AM MST up reply actions
Depth
I’m writing this, and it’s hard to say they had problems filling holes because – you’re right – they made the playoffs 9/10 years.
They had problems filling holes in the sense that they were a pretty bad at defense for most of the 00s, and that when Giambi was down, and after Bernie and Damon’s first year, first and CF were in bad shape (if you look at Giambi’s innings from ‘04 to ’08, there was plenty of time when a reserve was playing first). Because of monster contracts to defensive monstrosities Giambi, Damon and Matsui, there wasn’t money to defensively upgrade 1B, CF, LF (and RF, to an extent).
In ’06, for example, they were under water defensively (UZR) at: CF, RF, SS, 3B, 2B, 1B, and probably catcher.
Also, their SP was nothing great. Yeah, they spent a lot but they didn’t get much outside of early Roger Clemens, Mussina (sort of), and one year of CC (so far). Their bullpen was hodgepodge beyond Mariano, mostly because they didn’t develop their own people into good relievers (until the last couple of years) and overspent on crappy relievers (Farnsworth, Karsay, etc).
Their money is always plentiful, but not always spent wisely. Going back to what I’ve been saying about signing a bunch of 28 year olds to long term contracts, the Yankees are going to get old again in a few years, and with even more $20M contracts than they had in the ’00s, they may not be able to spend their way out of an aging team with poor defense and declining offense.
One might just attribute that to a general lack of emphasis on defense
many clubs hadn’t gotten on board the concept of defense being a high priority. The Rockies got on board this early, mostly due to pitching woes.
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 12, 2010 12:00 PM MST up reply actions
The person who wrote that is an

"I'm convinced that every boy, in his heart, would rather steal second base than an automobile." ~Tom Clark
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 10, 2010 2:26 PM MST up reply actions
A dumbass?
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 10, 2010 2:27 PM MST up reply actions
An ass in a hole?
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 10, 2010 2:28 PM MST up reply actions
Yep
Except without the in a part
"I'm convinced that every boy, in his heart, would rather steal second base than an automobile." ~Tom Clark
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 10, 2010 2:29 PM MST up reply actions
Whta a dumb dumb dumb article
I’m surprised he didn’t go further.
11. Babe Ruth
12. Mohammed Ali
13. Optimus Prime
14. Gandalf
15. Jesus
etc.
this made me laugh out loud in a restaurant
Very well played
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 10, 2010 6:00 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
really, you and FI2 make me laugh the most
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 10, 2010 6:07 PM MST up reply actions
yes, but in a different way
our interactions make me laugh.
bio and fi2 just kind of pop in and say/do something hilarious
+1
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 10, 2010 6:12 PM MST up reply actions
Hah!
Cheers RMN! I think FI#2 is a better gagster though – I produce so much drivel that occasionally I have to make decent contact. A bit like Clint Barmes.
blind squirrel, nut, etc?
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 11, 2010 9:44 AM MST up reply actions
blamb?
"I'm convinced that every boy, in his heart, would rather steal second base than an automobile." ~Tom Clark
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 10, 2010 6:13 PM MST up reply actions
he made me laugh because of how he reacted to everyone in general
namely F26
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 10, 2010 6:14 PM MST up reply actions
Does that mean I only am amusing by proxy?
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
amusing and funny are 2 completely different things
shut up you know what you are
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 10, 2010 8:42 PM MST up reply actions
shut up you know what you are
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 11, 2010 9:45 AM MST up reply actions

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
by Resolution on Feb 10, 2010 7:46 PM MST up reply actions 2 recs
YES.
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 10, 2010 8:43 PM MST up reply actions
This pic makes sense..
because I heard Madonna likes to play with toys.
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If he wants to see them
in pinstripes that badly, he should get someone to do some photoshopping.
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roflcopter (courtesy of the front page link to the aforementioned article)

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
I also bet this took 10x the work as the entire written piece
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
I dare you to post that picture over at Viva el Birdos :-)
"I'm convinced that every boy, in his heart, would rather steal second base than an automobile." ~Tom Clark
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 10, 2010 10:04 PM MST up reply actions
They'll just photoshop a Tulo version :(
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 10, 2010 10:08 PM MST up reply actions
It was just a joke
I like Cards fans anyway.
"I'm convinced that every boy, in his heart, would rather steal second base than an automobile." ~Tom Clark
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 10, 2010 10:11 PM MST up reply actions
I know
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 10, 2010 10:12 PM MST up reply actions
They'd just be confused
as to why a guy who’s affiliated with 3 blogs – one on a MLB team which isn’t the Yankees, one on sabermetric analysis, and one on fantasy sports went through the trouble of making his first post that.
Hey, this all sounds kinda fun…
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
Disgusting
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 10, 2010 10:02 PM MST up reply actions
That is one of the shittiest things I've ever read
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
It makes me want to puke
"I'm convinced that every boy, in his heart, would rather steal second base than an automobile." ~Tom Clark
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 10, 2010 9:22 PM MST up reply actions
it just pisses me clean off is what it does
“as if the Yankees aren’t good enough already, what would they be like if they had YOUR best player too, because screw your team!”
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 10, 2010 9:24 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
makes me happy we have Tulo
because GOD FORBID THEY SUGGEST SUPPLANTING JETER
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 10, 2010 9:25 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Rec to both comments
"I'm convinced that every boy, in his heart, would rather steal second base than an automobile." ~Tom Clark
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 10, 2010 9:30 PM MST up reply actions
God forbid Jeter ever retires
because if Tulo becomes half of what he think he will, the Evil Empire will make him an offer he’d be hard pressed to refuse
Troy Tulowitzki - Best SS in the MLB - 2010 MVP
"With a guy like Melo, it’s tough to stop him with one person. You can’t. I don’t know one guy who can stop Melo on a consistent basis."-CP3
Brad Hawpe - Will prove the doubters wrong
PS Let's win the NL West in 2010, shall we?
If he ever signs with the Yankees I may have to kill myself
Just the thought of it makes me want to cry.
"I'm convinced that every boy, in his heart, would rather steal second base than an automobile." ~Tom Clark
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 10, 2010 9:36 PM MST up reply actions
or the sox, either way
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 10, 2010 9:37 PM MST up reply actions
All of the Red Sox fans I know really want Tulo
because they have had nothing but mediocre shortstops for several years now. I’m often asked what the Red Sox would have to give to Rockies to get him.
"I'm convinced that every boy, in his heart, would rather steal second base than an automobile." ~Tom Clark
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 10, 2010 9:54 PM MST up reply actions
How about Lester, Papelbon, Bard and Pedroia
with Boston eating the salaries. Thinking a team would trade a super stud like Tulo with his contract is just short-sighted
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 10, 2010 10:10 PM MST up reply actions
While most Red Sox and Yankee fans don't understand that
because they think the teams in the middle of the country exist to develop players for the big market teams.
"I'm convinced that every boy, in his heart, would rather steal second base than an automobile." ~Tom Clark
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 10, 2010 10:12 PM MST up reply actions
There aren't enough players to replace Tulo
Troy Tulowitzki - Best SS in the MLB - 2010 MVP
"With a guy like Melo, it’s tough to stop him with one person. You can’t. I don’t know one guy who can stop Melo on a consistent basis."-CP3
Brad Hawpe - Will prove the doubters wrong
PS Let's win the NL West in 2010, shall we?
by SDcat09 on Feb 11, 2010 7:59 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I just don't understand the rationale behind it
it’s not even like he wrote this with a logic or any sort of desire to advance anything. If he tied in awesome free agent acquisitions to Yankee roster openings down the line/addressing areas of weakness (granted there are very few), then, while I’m sure people would still dislike it, it would have some sort of mental oomph behind it.
This was just something closer too oh, let me sort who the 10 best best players were last season and say ‘hey these people are like kinda good you know? so like they could be good for the Yankees?’
Lazy and boring…
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
and selfish and arrogant.......
"I'm convinced that every boy, in his heart, would rather steal second base than an automobile." ~Tom Clark
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 10, 2010 9:56 PM MST up reply actions
Hey, on the bright side
I found an article that talks about 10 players who’d look good in a Rockies uniform.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
Ten players who would look good in PURPLE pinstripes :-)
"I'm convinced that every boy, in his heart, would rather steal second base than an automobile." ~Tom Clark
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 10, 2010 10:07 PM MST up reply actions
After looking at this again
I’m wondering why Zack Greinke and Chase Utley are not on this list. If they are going to get Cliff Lee, Joe Mauer, and have three first basemen in Texeria, Pujols, and Fielder why not get these guys too?
"I'm convinced that every boy, in his heart, would rather steal second base than an automobile." ~Tom Clark
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 10, 2010 10:09 PM MST up reply actions
Fielder said
he’s open to a shift to second if it means playing for the Yankees. And Pujols? well he has a live enough arm to be a serviceable #5…
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
It's like his editor told him "I need a thing from you tommorow. It doesn't even have to be good"
So he ate a bran muffin and drank some coffee and squeezed this bad boy out after lunch.
by controlled_slide on Feb 10, 2010 10:11 PM MST up reply actions
It's seriously one of the worst articles I've ever read.
"I'm convinced that every boy, in his heart, would rather steal second base than an automobile." ~Tom Clark
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 10, 2010 10:14 PM MST up reply actions
"So he ate a bran muffin and drank some coffee and squeezed this bad boy out after lunch."
I see what you did there.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
I'm implying that his article was like poop.
by controlled_slide on Feb 10, 2010 10:22 PM MST up reply actions
NOOOOOOO
Now you exposed its hidden beauty.
It was our secret!
Now it’s everywhere…
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
Am I the only one sad about Beimel?
I thought he was a great acquisition to a battered bullpen.
I, for one, am optimistic about the future. And I'm not one to be optimistic about anything.
nope
you know how we feel about his choice of attire
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 10, 2010 8:44 PM MST up reply actions



















