On the defensive
Ok; I got off on the wrong foot with some of you. Oldfoagie is Old school. I take your points. I say we can both be right. Mora could pull a HOJO or Dale Murphy too. I don't think so. I don't expect an all star. I expect him to be what O'Dowd signed him to be. I also expect a guy who cares and won't mail it in. I expect a good teamate. I expect him not to have last years line. My perspective is being an avid baseball fan for over fifty years. I've seen players flash in the pan. No greater example than a former school mate of mine , David Clyde. I'm not against stats new or old. They can lie. Andrew; do me a favor and look up Bob Aspromonte. He was never a great hitter but was above average. What he was known for back in the day was being the poor man's Tony Perez. You won't see it in the stats; he was one of the most clutch performers I've ever seen. He had a knack for breaking other teams backs with the timely hit. It wouldn't be necessarily late inning RISP. It would just be the one that counted. He often would have a 4ab 1hit line. He did not always get the RBI, but set it up. Managers would cringe when he came up. This was on teams with notables like Joe Morgan, Rusty Staub, Jimmy Wynn. All great to very good hitters in their primes The Astros traded all of them away and kept Aspro the Astro. The other point is being an Oldfoagie; I see too much of a negative attitude. It's the begining of the season guys! The Rox are not the BUCS! Let's get behind the new guy and put the good Karma on. I will call'm and we will disagree. Isn't that what the site is all about? I want people to succeed on the team. That's what my first to posts were about. I'm not above constructive criticism and I am not above giving it. I think Melvin Mora being here will help Stewart, Barmes, Tulo and others on this team by the example he sets as a person as much as a player. I don't see a set of numbers and an old backup; I see a person. Being an Oldfoagie; I get defensive about that.
Eat. Drink. Be Merry. But the above FanPost does not necessarily reflect the attitudes, opinions, or views of Purple Row's staff (unless, of course, it's written by the staff [and even then, it still might not]).
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Please, if you're going to write fanposts (and really, you shouldn't until you've spent a lot longer immersing yourself in the tone and approach of PR)
Please, please format them properly. It’s lazy and looks bad, and is that much harder to read.
(and this third person thing? Fella, please, it’s embarrassing)
I believe
biondino you are a smart intellectual guy but If a guy wants to speak his mind let him do it. You could in a positive way encourage the guy to format his posts better.
There is a lot of subjects about the Rockies that a person might discuss to the betterment of this sight but comments like this will cause people to keep them to themselves and limit indepth discussion. We all enjoy talking Rockies.
... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, you’ll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear
Thanks for the polite response, 3nS
And perhaps I was a bit grumpy. But the fact is that fanposts need a bit of effort spent on them – they are personal opinion, yes, but they also speak for the site and as such the people who run the site expect more than simple comments or stream of consciousness, especially when it’s formatted badly.
This is why people are encouraged to read and comment on rockpiles, game threads etc. for a while before creating fanposts.
Clyde
You have to wonder a bit about how the handling of Clyde affected his career. Can you imagine an 18 year old pitcher being thrown straight to the wolves of the major leagues today?
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I wanted Mora the entire time
I don’t know why you’re going on the “defensive”.
I’ll assume you’re directing the “Andrew” comment to myself, but even if it’s PF, I’m sure I speak for both of us when I say that we recognize that he could bring leadership qualities to the hot corner, etc, but we also recognize the reality that he’s 38 on opening day and his game is on the decline.
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As for Bob Aspromonte, looks like a weak stick playing in a pitcher's era
probably a slick glove, his batting average wasn’t enough for the oldschool managers to keep him in the lineup for his bat. Good FP% relative to the league average. Couldn’t speak to his range, I’d have to rely on the anecdotal for that. Iunno, seems like a good defense-first option with a few solid years at the plate. Anything further will more than likely be in the eye of the beholder.
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 17, 2010 9:10 AM MST up reply actions
Also who has a negative attitude?
If anything, you’re seeing a lot of pent up fandom waiting to unleash itself upon Coors Field.
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Your anecdote about Aspromonte actually reinforces why stats guys love stats
It wouldn’t be necessarily late inning RISP. It would just be the one that counted. He often would have a 4ab 1hit line. He did not always get the RBI, but set it up.
This is exactly why we (we being devotees of Sabermetrics) hate RBIs and Runs. If you have 3 hitters who hit singles in a row, the first guy gets credited with a run scored, the third guy gets an RBI, but the middle guy gets nothing but a boost in average. Context-neutral all three guys did exactly the same thing, the first and third guys just got lucky and got the extra stats. Purporting that Aspromonte came up with late “clutch” hits more often than guys like Joe Morgan is just selective memory and wishful thinking. A guy with a .252/.308/.336 career line probably grounded weakly to second more in late-inning situations than he came up with the critical hit.
On Mora, I really liked the signing, and said so at the time. I love having hard-working high-character guys on the team; the more the better. But of the 4 probable starting infielders at least 3 of them fit that category perfectly – and Stewart might be also; I just don’t know too much about his attitude.
Finally, there’s gallons of optimism here. I’ve never seen Rockies fans this optimistic about an offseason. No one’s complaining about the moves we didn’t make, no ones crying about any position on the field. Most discussion here is who fills out the final bullpen spots, what the starting rotation order will be and when our young stud minor league pitchers will start contributing. I don’t spend time on any other Rockies forums looking at attitudes there, but here there’s optimism to spare, to the point that everyone’s anxious to get the season started so we can prove how good we can be.
I hope you continue posting here, and I don’t think poorly of you. Please don’t assume that because I look at the game differently than you I dislike you.
by controlled_slide on Feb 17, 2010 10:42 AM MST reply actions
I didn't say he hit better or more often....
He wasn’t a star by any means. He was just kryptonite by being a bottom third pest with gap power. He played almost all of his career on that horrible 1st gen turf in the Astrodome. The Astros kept trading away their home grown stars for ever more pitching and collecting Mora type veterans like Don Cledenon, Rocky Colivito, and Jim Gentile. By every definition they were better traditional hitters. It also helped haveing a Torrealba type hitter in John Bateman or Jerry Grote a very high for a catcher obp player hitting behind him.
The negative attitude is in the bashing I see you do on each other and the final judgements I see.
I am working on my poor computer skills. I don’t think you in particular don’t like me. I am also getting used to trifocals and have been dyslexic my whole life before most people knew what it was. I don’t see what I am writeing well as a result. Hang in there with me.
I don't know if you're speaking to me specifically
Or people here in general, but I’m certainly one of the more optimistic people here. Truth be told, there are many pessimistic people here, most of whom manifested themselves during the stretch run last year, but most of the regulars who have been hanging out here over the offseason have been extremely upbeat about the Rockies’ chances for next year. Sure there’s a smattering of “I wish we’d gotten that guy instead of this guy” or “we should try to trade this guy, I think he has high value right now”, but even those have been couched in an expectation of the Rockies competing for the NL pennant next year. I’ve only been on here a short time, but this is the most optimism I’ve seen from Rockies fans in the 17 years I’ve been following the Rockies. Most of the “bashing” is done in good fun, and most people here get along with each other. We young’uns are a sarcastic bunch.
by controlled_slide on Feb 19, 2010 9:38 AM MST up reply actions
Online forums breed open discussion and debate about a variety of topics
Suggesting Barmes needs to be replaced isn’t negativity as much as it is discourse about the strengths and weaknesses of the team. Other than that, Purple Row is one of the most optimistic and upbeat online communities you’ll find.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 19, 2010 11:15 AM MST up reply actions
Question Oldfoagie
Are you a Mets or a Rockies fan?
"Show me a good loser in professional sports, and I'll show you an idiot." - Leo Durocher
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 17, 2010 1:33 PM MST reply actions
When I was really old enough to start understanding the game.....
In 1961; the Yankees were the only game in town for a kid in northern New Jersey. I became a Mets fan in 1962 . The Mets were new and everyone was excited about having the national league back in NYC. I got to see a couple of games in the old Polo Grounds and was regaled in it’s history. Ebbets field was but a memory to others and an empheral apperition to me. I suffered all the slings and arrows of being a Mets fan all the bad years; just as young Rockies fans did untill recently. I am honestly torn between the two. I root for both when they are not playing each other. When they do meet I shut up and take whatever comes. My family moved to Houston in1965. My other sibs became Astros fans and that is how I know of Aspromonte. If you wanted to know anything about baseball you had to weigh and wade through all the Astros stuff first. By todays standards; he was a weak stick. In the old days before personal computers; you were lucky if you got to listen to old Dizzy Dean on the RADIO once a weak. Because of his poor education and grammer skills he was always getting wanked off the air. The teachers and preachers of the day couldn,t stand him. My memory fades asto the people ‘Ol Diz" compared Aspro to. They all existed before I was born. He was mightily impressed with how Aspro would make managers and pitchers have bad days. You also have to remember what a bad hitters park the Old Astrodome was. This is not statisticly as good an analogy but if you know someone who has knowledge of Eddy Stankey… Aspro at the plate was that kind of pest. It was common for him to have 8 to twelve pitch Ab’s. I remember one weekend when Bob Gibson made him duck four high and tights with malice after extending Gibson 15 pitches the previous Ab. That was friday. Saturday he chased Sandy Koufax with a 2b he later scored on in the sixth. Sunday, Drysdale plunked him twice so as to only throw one pitch to him. That to me was respect in the odd context of the times. I forget what year exactly. Gibson was in his prime and Koufax was nearing the end. Drysdale was hurt.
You'll make more friends
If you make use of paragraphs. I’m not trying to be rough on you, but hitting the enter key every few sentences makes if MUCH easier to reader. A “wall of text” can make peoples’ eyes glaze over.
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Negativity
I appreciate your post but being new to this sight, I haven’t seen any negativity towards the Rockies. I think everyone one is pumped and are expecting an even better Rockies team than last year. The pitching is stable. The lineup is strong with experienced backups and a lot of depth in the organization.
... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, you’ll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear
Just for the record
we’re glad you’re here
just know that we have a lot of exuberant commenters and sometimes you might find yourself against a wall – don’t take it as an attack. Too many people take things as attacks when they’re in the minority on a topic, myself included.
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Well Oldfoagie, since you moved to Houston in 1965, the year the Astrodome opened, you missed a real treat.
That would be sitting in Colt Stadium in 90 degree heat and 90% humidity while battling the most outrageous mosquitoes know to mankind. Colt Stadium was the temporary ball park that was the Colts home while the ’Dome was being built.
I grew up in the Houston area and lived and died with the Colt .45s/Astros. And Bob Aspromonte frustrated me to no end. You can’t imagine my glee when Doug Rader took over at 3rd base.
But at this time of the year every season, I was convinced the ’stros would make noise in the National League. Seldom happened, but I dreamed the same dream every spring.
Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah, 1983
I am glad I missed it.
Colt stadium sat there for years afterward and one week it was gone. Disassymbled and and moved to Hermasillo Mexico; and still in use today.
I heard all the horror stories. About disappearing baseballs in the fog; Free can of OFF night. Turkey Buzzards dive bombing the ladies in there fancy hats. The big stinking mudhole hole they couldn’t dig deep enough to set the piles for the Astrodome’s foudation. The source of those mosquitoes big enough to to have standing congress with a turkey flat footed! Jersey didn’t have them THAT big!
Aspro frustrated a lot of people. When you counted him out he’d come up big; and when you counted on him he’d stink. But he’d battle and battle and as bad as the ’stros were back then; they seemed to always win the last game of a series because they would wear out the bullpens, On a bad team; the guy who did that for you was clutch. Of course it really helped to have Grote or Bateman hitting behind him. They were good enough that they could not afford to ignore him.

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