Aaron Cook and Jeff Francis: My 2010 Expectation
One of the biggest points of discussion from Rockies fans and people attempting to eschew the Rockies' success is the pitching staff. Analysts from the mainstream media as well as neighboring blogs have all recognized the big season that Jason Marquis had, and thereby considered him a linchpin for the Rockies' pitching staff. In a manner of speaking, they're correct, but it seems that they're making the assumptions that: 1.Marquis will go forward and produce at the same level that he did in Colorado; 2. Everybody on the Rockies' staff will perform exactly as they did in 2009, which is also a flawed expectation.
Let's address issue #1 before digging into OUR pitching staff. There are two ways to look at Jason Marquis and how he should be expected to pitch in 2010. The first is the "Jason Marquis Career Renaissance" look going forward. Marquis worked very hard with Rockies' pitching coach Bob Apodaca during the 2008-2009 offseason/Spring Training to re-develop his sinker, and it was noticed by the opposition. Additionally, Marquis has acquiesced to the mindset that he isn't an Ace pitcher, but he can still help a club, not only on the mound, but in mentoring their young players, which is part of the reason why he moved on to Washington.
Issue #2, however, is the once that I lean on, and that issue is that Marquis just isn't that good of a pitcher. He's a decent mid-rotation starter, which is based almost entirely on longevity, but I will acknowledge that his fixed sinker will continue to provide value for Washington. However, with a pitch as fundamental as a sinking fastball, it's going to throw batters off for awhile. Suddenly having a renewed faith in one's primary pitch and its effectiveness might have given Marquis a "second rookie year", in the sense that he's going to have a somewhat new approach to his game. I'm not saying he's revamped things so much that he's TOTALLY a new pitcher, but going from a 95-mph straightball and trouble locating it to a 92-mph fastball with enough sinking action to put him as the 3rd most extreme groundballer in the majors (behind Pineiro and Derek Lowe). But what typically happens after rookie years?
My point isn't meant to be that Marquis is terrible, but I see him regressing to his career averages and his sinker being less effective (both based on batter familiarity and distance from Apodaca), and honestly, I would expect to see him as roughly a 2-win pitcher, and not much more. We'll see if his improved control and new-found home run suppression can carry into the NL East.
So moving forward, where do we need our pitching staff to perform at? Well, as it's been said, we need to have some combination of 2010 Francis and 2010 Cook to equal 2009 Marquis and 2009 Cook.
Click past the jump and we'll take a look at just what is to be expected of the remnants of the Gen-R pitching staff.
2009 Marquis was a 3.8-win pitcher, and 2009 Cook was worth 1.9 wins. Now, Cook showed up looking like a spring cliché, with shaggy hair and 20lbs missing entirely. As has been mention, last time he arrived like this was in 2008, when he posted career-high numbers that took the ultimate form of a 4.7 WAR. His 3.96 ERA lists among the top-5 All-Time for the Rockies, and his 3.76 FIP (4.06 xFIP) back up those numbers.
Francis, on the other hand, is somewhat of a wild card, what with the surgery and excellent recovery and whatnot. Most recently, he posted 1.6 WAR while injured, following up a 4.1 WAR season that led us to the World Series.
So what do we really need from these guys to have them pick up their share of the rotation's slack? Well, just doing the basic math, we need 5.7 WAR from Cook and Francis (combined) to account for Marquis' and Cook's production in 2009. If we round that to a nice 6 wins, I'd expect that'd be satisfactory to everyone. I'm envisioning Cook returning to 2008 form, and Francis just being able to pitch a season. That said, let's assign 4 wins to Cookie, and 2 wins to Francis.
So for starters, I've done a little backward math (at times fuzzy) to go from the WAR we need from Cook/Francis back to the IP and FIP/ERA we need from them.
Over the course of Cook's career as a full-time starter, he's only averaged 24 starts per season. We'll call this Limited Action. 24 starts from Cook will put him on the mound for 153.2 innings, and if he's to match that 4.0 win watermark we're looking for, he's going to need to be pitching at a 3.55 FIP/ERA level. Something tells me this isn't entirely plausible.
So let's average out his starts in a not-life-threatening-embolism year. He's averaged 29 starts over the past 4 years, limited by strained obliques, hurt feet, and other little injury oddities. At a level of 29GS (185.2IP), Cook's gonna need to crack that 4.00 FIP/ERA barrier and finish somewhere around a 3.92 FIP/ERA. We'll dub this the Realistic.
What if Cook stays away from nailguns and wild animals and ATVs and witch doctors and such, and can be a workhorsing stud muffin. 34 starts would put Cook at a heroic 217.2IP, and he'll need to post a 4.17 FIP/ERA to match that. Call this the WorkHorse.
Finally, what if everyone goes right? What if they sacrifice the live chicken, and keep Cook away from black cats and from walking under ladders? What if everything just dominates and Cook owns the season? Combining the Workhorse and the Limited Action to create the Heroic, a 3.55 FIP/ERA and 217.2 IP, Cook would pretty much pick up the slack for both himself and Francis, and be overlooked for the CY after posting 5.7 WAR for the season.
Honestly, at this point in his career, I'd argue that somewhere between the Workhorse and the Realistic are what we're going to see out of Cook. Low-4 FIP/ERA, 200IP, 32GS, and yes, I think he can realistically surpass Marquis' 3.8 WAR. Not phenomenally, but right around 4 WAR, give or take a shred.
|
FIP/ERA |
IP |
WAR |
|
|
Limited Action |
3.55 |
153.2 |
4 |
|
Workhorse |
4.17 |
217.2 |
4 |
|
Realistic |
3.92 |
185.2 |
4 |
|
Heroic |
3.55 |
217.2 |
5.7 |
Now the next question we have is Francis. We have no idea what to expect from him, how much we should baby him, or if he's even ready to be effective. The good news is that we don't need a lot from him, only to be a slightly-below-average starter.
Let's start out by babying him. Call this Cautious. Say we cut him off at....uhhh...23 starts. Yeah, that works, 23 starts, that's a nice arbitrary number and then we let The Machine or Rogers or Redding or somebody take that rotation slot. This only has Francis pitching 136IP, and to make that 2.0 WAR, he'll need a 4.52 FIP/ERA. Basically, his career average over those 136IP.
So what if he's healthy, but we want to limit his in-game pitching to, say, 5IP/start, and let him make...27 starts. Call this one Babying. Amusingly enough, the numbers are pretty much the same, 4.54 FIP/ERA, 135 IP, wheeeee.
Now, O'Dowd pretty much said that they thought 175IP was reasonable for Francis, surgery and all. Reasonable. OK, let's bump him back to his typical 6 innings per game and a full complement of starts. With 179.2 IP over 30 starts (which is incidentally his career average), Francis will only need a 4.78 FIP/ERA to make that 2.0 WAR we're hoping for.
But what if Francis harnessed the powers of the universe during his rehab? What if he found the Higgs Boson and had it implanted in his arm and thereby gained the healing powers that come with the creation of the universe? What if he could make all 34 starts we'd love to see AND pitch at a 4.3 FIP/ERA level? We'll call this one Supernatural, and he'd rack up 215IP and hand us a lovely 4.6 WAR and then take his wife and child in his arms and fly away into the sunset, arguably to Canada. Which makes no sense.
|
FIP/ERA |
IP |
WAR |
|
|
Cautious |
4.52 |
136 |
2 |
|
Babying |
4.54 |
135 |
2 |
|
Reasonable |
4.78 |
179.2 |
2 |
|
Supernatural |
4.3 |
200 |
4.6 |
So what's the point in all of this? Well, the idea is that we need our current staff to pick it up a bit to make up for past production. Cook will need to reach down and find what mojo he had in 2008, or at least 2006, and muster up enough groundballing to make his sinker the effective pitch it's always been. Believe me, when his HR/9 jumped up above 1.00 this past season, I got downright scared. He didn't strike out or walk any abnormal amounts of guys, but his sinker clearly wasn't. Get that fixed, Cookie, and then let's rock some faces off.
As for Francis, it's tough to say we have "expectations" of him, given that he may not be ready come the beginning of the season. He doesn't have that big of a workload to shoulder, which makes sense, given the fact that he's matching Cook's oft-injured 2009 campaign. 2 WAR is a point that Francis can get to without much absurd effort or risk. Either he's lights out and can be afforded a longer string, or he struggles but stays healthy, there are a lot of routes to go to get to 2.0 WAR.
With that, I'll wrap up CR for this week. We'll get back to the All-Time Rockies at some point here, but I've been toying with this for awhile now and wanted to get it off of my chest. Hurray for pitching, hurray for recovery stories, and hurray for the Rockies!
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If Francis or Cook end up in the lower end of the spectrum innings-wise
We’ll get some value from Smith/Chacin/Rogers/Redding/whoever as long as they are about replacement level.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 24, 2010 11:58 AM MST reply actions
I pretty much expect this, ESP with Francis.
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 24, 2010 12:03 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
You make it sound like Halo's difficulties setting
with Heroic. Maybe you should add in Legendary for good measure.
Opening day can’t come soon enough.
Making facetious trade rumors since 2012AD
by lizardlad01 on Feb 24, 2010 12:02 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
Opening day can’t come soon enough.
qft
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 24, 2010 12:14 PM MST up reply actions
Can we get unlimited rocket launchers..
and radar turned off with active camouflage? So we can sneak up on everyone and blow them away?
I just attended my first Halo party last weekend.
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by Charlie77 on Feb 24, 2010 1:26 PM MST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
It was Awesome!
I wish I knew the maps better, but other than that I really enjoyed Halo. We had 5 lcd monitors all on split screen and 4 Sam’s club pizzas with a lot of mountain dew.
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by Charlie77 on Feb 24, 2010 8:03 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Btw if any seamheads are interested
I can plug in different era/ip scenarios and spit back out a WAR
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 24, 2010 12:04 PM MST via mobile reply actions
Francis
9.0 IP, 0.00 ERA
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 24, 2010 12:07 PM MST up reply actions
In actual seriousness though
I’d be interested in how many innings/what ERA our sixth starter would need to produce if Francis had, say, 136 IP at 5.00 ERA/FIP, or 100 innings at 4.50 ERA/FIP
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 24, 2010 12:11 PM MST up reply actions
136/5.00 = 1.2 WAR
100/4.50 = 1.5 WAR
I don’t really have the framework in for 6th starters yet, I can work on that later
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 24, 2010 12:16 PM MST up reply actions
Wouldn't it be the same skeleton as Francis/Cook?
Where IP=200-Francis?
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 24, 2010 12:19 PM MST up reply actions
well, possibly. I kind of established the run environment for Cook and Francis
and then found WAR through those means
I’d probably want to do this same thing for Ubaldo, DLR, and Hammel, and then basically see what’s left over for the #6
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 24, 2010 12:21 PM MST up reply actions
How about the Cole Hamels scenario?
193 IP 4.32 ERA
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by Charlie77 on Feb 24, 2010 1:22 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
3.3 WAR
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 24, 2010 2:20 PM MST up reply actions
Just for kicks, how about a Christy Mathewwson scenario..
390 IP 1.43 ERA
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by Charlie77 on Feb 24, 2010 8:07 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
wow
20.3 WAR.
Aim for that, Francis.
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 25, 2010 9:19 AM MST up reply actions
The real? is how the do on the road.
0 for Dodger Stadium will be unacceptable. Any Rox fans in LA care to bury a Spilly jersey under the right hand batters box? I don’t expect pitchers era baseball from them; but if the Rox want more than a wild card they have to keep a team ERA under 4.00 on the Road
We had a team ERA of 4.06 on the road
As a whole, the NL had a 4.42 ERA on the road.
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 24, 2010 7:46 PM MST up reply actions
In away you make my point...
The Rox got the wild card with a .406ERA. which was above average. They still had trouble with the better teams on the road. How many more games would they have won against Philly , the Dodgers and the Cardinal with say a . 388 ERA on the Road? How much better would they have been in the playoffs? IF,IF,IF.
.388 may be unrealisticly out of reach; but .395 isn’t. That would be elite enough.
your point on the Dodgers was pretty spot on, we had like a 5ish ERA at Dodger Stadium
I’d worry more about in-division road play than the Cards and Phillies.
Honestly, I’m less worried about road pitching than I am road batting. The Coors Field effect comes with a pretty substantial hangover…or at least it used to.
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 25, 2010 10:41 PM MST up reply actions
Road batting is a whole 'nother can of worms and I have ideas....
This is a pitching discussion tho and my point is you can’t win if you are being out scored. There are only two ways to do this : A don’t let the other guy score. B Score so often the other guy can’t keep up. The Rox with exception to Hawpe are better than average defensively. There are minor tweaks to do; but overall no room for great improvement. The Rox have given up power to achieve this. This goes back to Aspro and the way Spilly was hitting before last year. Keep fouling off the other guys best stuff and extend them. Spilly’s best AB was not the slam but his first AB of the season. Webb threw eight pitches to Spilly and decided to plunk him to end the AB. We’ve all heard about pitch to contact: what about hit to contact?
Pests like Spilly and Aspro win respect by taking less athletic talent and making the other guy not take them lightly. Todd has made a very good career of it. Nelson Liriono was Nolan Ryan’s kryptonite. He broke up several no hitters that way.
The Rockies will live or die by contact hitting. If Hawpe, Iannetta, Stewart and Barmes do not improve on contact; it’ll be a long year. Cargo, Tulo and Todd will not be enough firepower to overcome that unless the pitching is exceptional against the frontline teams. That is why I advocate Smith as a Starter platooning with Spilly. The out field defense improves and the contact rate goes up. Longer opposed ABs and a penalty for bypassing Todd and Tulo.
interesting points throughout
I’ll just focus on the first sentence, because there’s another entire study to put into play there.
The question that is as old as sports is “Is it better to score a run or prevent a run” or points/goals/wickets/whatever.
My opinion is that it’s the latter, run prevention. If you can’t score runs, you can’t win. But they can’t score runs, you can’t lose.
Someone (I think it was a manager or GM or some wise baseball person) basically said that while wins are important, losses are the real dealbreaker. You’re only allotted a certain amount of losses in a season, and once you reach that, there’s no longer any chance of winning. I’m butchering the rephrasing, but the idea is that if you lose, say, 75 games, you’re probably out of the playoff hunt. It obviously doesn’t matter when that 75th loss comes into play, but once you hit that, it doesn’t matter if you win out, you’re not making the postseason.
My point is just emphasizing what you said: Sacrificing Power for Defense. Keeping our opponents off the board is more important IMO than putting ourselves on the board. Obviously, both need to happen, but if you don’t give up runs, you don’t lose, and if you don’t lose, you make it to the dance.
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 26, 2010 12:57 PM MST up reply actions
Just study the ABs NYY vs Bucs WS
Mazer’s home run was an anomaly. The rest of the series played to form. The Yanks were like Philly now on roids. The Bucs were like the classic Dodger teams of the era. The Yanks out slugged the BUCS by orders of magnitudes. The bottom line was the Bucs better pitching over seven games aided with a better defense. When the Bucs pitching was on; their situational contact hitting was enough.
can't really disagree with this
top-notch run prevention means “good enough” offense is …well, just that.
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 26, 2010 11:30 PM MST up reply actions
FWIW, I really enjoyed this article.
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by Charlie77 on Feb 24, 2010 8:08 PM MST via mobile reply actions
thank you.
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 26, 2010 12:50 PM MST up reply actions
Awesome article
But don’t forget, all of these numbers are completely contingent on Hammel, DLR, and Ubaldo having similar seasons to 2009. We think that Ubaldo will most likely improve, and the same with DLR if he keeps that K/9, but what if Hammel tanks or any one of those pitchers have any go wrong next year? It will make Francis’s job a lot harder, and that’s why we’re so comfortable with letting him pitch, because the others have the abolity to pick him up if he fails, but it’s never guaranteed.
Impossible not to have positive thoughts.
I want Sam Deduno to pitch already.
this is an absolutely critical observation
this article was simply written in the vacuum of “HOW ARE THE ROCKIES GOING TO REPLACE MARQUIS’ PRODUCTION???”
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 24, 2010 10:10 PM MST up reply actions
I really liked the article too.
Another ? is how DLR lasts over the season. Stamina has always dogged him. Don’t get me wrong; I think he’s grown a lot in the time he’s been here.
good to hear the balanced perspective
I think I’m going to work on this during ST, making WAR “projections” that will more tell us what kind of workload we need to expect from our 6th starter, as PF asked earlier
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 24, 2010 11:16 PM MST up reply actions
Forgive my ignorance
What is FIP?
What I noticed last year is that Rockies SP didn’t give up many walks. They need to continue with that control. Where can I get stats on 2 out hits. I think that is the most important thing for Rockies starters is to get the 3rd out. I wonder how Rox hitters do with 2 outs compared with the league average.
... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, you’ll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear
Fielding Independent Pitching
A pitcher’s ERA can be positively or negatively affected by the quality of his defense and home park. To normalize things, FIP is an ERA estimator that takes into account only the baseball events that a pitcher has direct control over – K’s, BB’s, IP and HR. The equation is (HR*13+(BB+HBP-IBB)3-K2)/IP+LSF, where LSF is a league specific factor (around 3.2) to put it in the scale of ERA.
Theoretically, a pitcher with a much lower FIP than ERA could be considered a bit fortunate/lucky/overrated, while a pitcher with an ERA much higher than his FIP could be unfortunate/unlucky/underrated. It’s a good way to find solid pitchers who might be overlooked by ERA. It’s also a less variable statistic from year to year.
Examples:
Matt Cain appeared to have a career year in 2009 with a 2.89 ERA, but his FIP was a whole run higher at 3.89. Guess what his career FIP is….it’s 3.89. That’s about his skill level, and his defense helped him out some last year. We can expect his ERA to be closer to 3.89 than 2.89 next year.
Conversely, Jason Hammel had a 4.33 ERA and 3.71 FIP. That’s the sixth highest difference in MLB. Theoretically, he pitched much better than his ERA showed.
There’s a newer version, called xFIP, which normalizes the home run component for the pitcher’s home park. This stat suggests Hammel pitched better at Coors Field than at home, despite his 5.73/3.13 home/road ERA split. That might not be so surprising, since he had a better strikeout, walk and groundball rate at Coors Field.
Fangraphs.com has rankings and stats for FIP for every pitcher. Firstinning.com has FIP numbers for minor leaguers.
Andrew Martin wrote a piece a year ago that goes into it in more depth if you are curious: http://www.purplerow.com/2009/4/1/817712/fip-why-you-dont-deserve-that-era
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 24, 2010 11:09 PM MST up reply actions
yeah, what he said
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 24, 2010 11:18 PM MST up reply actions
Thanks
So basically FIP is what an ERA should be all things considered equal.
... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, you’ll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear
sort of
I don’t like looking at FIP directly, as batted balls are such a significant part of the game. I like using it as an indicator of whether an ERA is inflated or not. Matt Cain was the perfect example, as PF posted above.
I really like tRA, as it takes EVERYTHING into account, and it’s kind of a “well, based on what the pitcher did, this shows how many runs they should’ve allowed”. I’m pimping my own work here, but check this out anyhow.
Honestly, if you just cite ERA, you’re going to be fine. I used FIP in this article because it’s a better predictor moving forward than ERA is, and ideally, FIP and ERA should balance out at some point.
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 25, 2010 9:24 AM MST up reply actions
There are a lot of different stabs at ERA predictors and such
FIP, xFIP, tRA…SIERA just debuted earlier this month. It’s easy to get bogged down in everything. FIP is the most commonly cited version, though it is also the earliest and most simple.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 25, 2010 10:57 AM MST up reply actions
Siera's already getting destroyed
apparently they don’t know how to calculate xFIP right or something, and their attempt at keeping up with the transparent Jones’ is not working.
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 25, 2010 11:31 AM MST up reply actions
Thanks
Now I can see why baseball is a stats guys paradise. Where can I find a tRA for pitchers with empty bases conpared to tRA with runners on?
... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, you’ll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear
I don't think anyone provides those splits at the current moment
If you’re feeling ambitious, go to Baseball-Reference.com and look up the splits there, and then do a FIP calculation as PF laid it out.
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 25, 2010 9:54 AM MST up reply actions
not sure if i did this right
I left off the LSF because that might skew my numbers when what I want to know is how a pitcher pitched with ROB compared to empty bases. I did Ubaldo Jiminez with bases empy I got a number that was .615 compared with .111. So can I assume that his FIP would be .5 higher with bases empty? Or did I screw up? Because it seems he pitches better with runners on rather than emptp and I thought it would be the other way around.
... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, you’ll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear
The LSF is additive to both, and both will be scaled equally, so it won't skew anything
I can see the formula I pasted got converted a bit… (HRx13+(BB+HBP-IBB)x3-Kx2)/IP+LSF
I converted the * to x above so it doesn’t automatically make things bold as it did above. Just making sure you aren’t inferring exponents rather than multiplication. I haven’t looked at your math yet though…
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 25, 2010 11:00 AM MST up reply actions
provided your math is right, it looks right to me.
But you hit a key point here:
Because it seems he pitches better with runners on rather than empty and I thought it would be the other way around.
This is why I’m a stats guy.
Welcome.
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 25, 2010 11:33 AM MST up reply actions
Thanks Andrews
Now I’m gonna hafta make a spread sheet and stuff.
... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, you’ll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear
bwah ha ha
welcome to being a stat person
spreadsheets are awesome
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 25, 2010 1:27 PM MST up reply actions
My IP # is off
... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, you’ll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear

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