Sunday Rockpile: Carlos Gonzalez and Dexter Fowler are two keys for Rockies rising to best in NL status
Thomas Harding profiles the Rockies speedy top of the lineup, Carlos Gonzalez and Dexter Fowler. It's my own feeling that Fowler, Gonzalez and I would add Ian Stewart, are the keys offensively for turning the Rockies from the 90-ish win team they are into a 95 win, regular WS contender. Everybody else in the lineup we more or less have a bead on, but these are the three most capable of adding multiple wins worth of production to their output. If the Rockies can somehow get four plus wins of value from each of the three, they would be the best team in the National League.
Current CHONE and fan projections from FanGraphs see Fowler between 2.3 and 3.3 wins over replacement (just above average), Gonzalez at 2.6 to 4.0 and Stewart at 3.0 to 3.2. So we have three good, young, above average players, but each have tools that would make All-Star caliber seasons possible. The purple tinted optimist view will see a potential extra win of value from each of the three taking the team to the Phillies level or above
Of course, all other teams have similar players they are hoping for similar advancements from this Spring (few will have our trio's pedigree, though). So, I guess the burden's on us to explain why CarGo/Fowler/Stewart are better bets to do this than Loney/Martin/DeWitt (that one shouldn't be hard) or Drew/Montero/Jackson or.., oh, dang it, now I have to rewrite the paragraph.
Of course, all other teams, except for the Giants, have similar players they are hoping for like advancements from this Spring (few will have the Rockies trio's pedigree, though). So, I guess the burden's on us to explain why CarGo/Fowler/Stewart are better bets to do this than Loney/Martin/DeWitt (that one shouldn't be hard) or Drew/Montero/Jackson. I'll try and do that for Wednesday, as I think the upside of the Rockies -the probability that players outperform expectations- is as big an advantage for the team as anything else this year.
In a somewhat related story, Troy Renck writes that Fowler trained with Andruw Jones over the winter, although thankfully it appears he didn't hire Jones' old nutritionist.
****
Jim Armstrong gives a rundown of why the Rockies are likely to succeed in 2010. It's an article that seems to know that its primary audience is just looking for something to do before training camp opens in Greeley, so don't expect anything you haven't read elsewhere except for maybe Bob Apodaca citing Hall of Fame worthy pitchers as a model for the synergy with the Rockies rotation. I don't know if I really buy that "helping each other out" helps our starters, or heled the Braves trio Apodaca cites, as much as being quality (or in Atlanta's case, elite) starting pitchers in the first place.
A notes column says that Manny Corpas looked good pitching to live hitters yesterday. Greg Smith and Justin Speier were also praised, as was Carlos Gonzalez' bat. Smith still seems to be getting a lot more attention than the Rockies other sixth starter candidates, which leaves me with the belief that he's still the most likely to get called up first in case of an injury to one of the Rockies current starting five.
As such, we should probably see how he stacks up compared to the fifth and sixth starters in the rest of the NL West. In order to neutralize park factors and variations in projected innings, after the jump I'll grade them by runs above replacement per nine innings pitched as projected by CHONE, so higher numbers are better.
Rockies:
5th Starter - Jason Hammel 1.15
6th Starter - Greg Smith 0.96
Dodgers:
5th Starter - Eric Stults 0.65
6th Starter - Giancarlo Alvarado 0.65 TBD
Diamondbacks:
5th Starter - Billy Buckner 1.36
6th Starter - Rodrigo Lopez 0.91
Giants:
5th Starter - Todd Wellemeyer 0.45
6th Starter - Kevin Pucetas 0.46
Padres:
Actually, I'm not meaning to ignore them here, I'm just having trouble making sense of the Padres rotation, but whoever their 5th and 6th starters wind up being, they will be closer to the Rockies and D-backs projections than the Dodgers and Giants.
- If you read the mainstream press, you'd probably have no idea that the best pitching depth in the NL West was with the three smaller market teams, or that the Giants were that bad at the bottom of their rotation.
- I'm not sure why CHONE likes Buckner so much. but it's another reason why I think the Diamondbacks are more dangerous than a lot of people realize. I don't really buy that Buckner's going to be better than Hammel, but he's still a solid fifth starter, it would appear.
- As I just alluded to, I think Hammel may be a bit underrated by CHONE due to his MLB performance with Tampa Bay in 2006-2008.
- The Padres problem with their pitching is that their likely top of the rotation (Young/Garland/Correia) doesn't stack up to the rest of the division even if the bottom (Latos/Gallagher/Curtis/LeBlanc) does. They do have some nice young pitching depth, however.
- The differences of the Rockies over the Dodgers at the bottom of the rotation are pretty small, but if the projections hold they would amount to a win's worth of value over the course of the season, and a couple of wins over the Giants. If the Dodgers finish 89-73 and we finish with 90-72, this becomes pretty important.
- Finally, back to Smith, it would appear he's the most valuable sixth starter in the division among the four contending teams, at least on paper, so we have that going for us.
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To be fair, Giants fans do seem to have one player they hope rises to All-Star caliber
in Buster Posey, but he’s not even likely to be on the opening day roster at this point, so it’s hard for me to see them getting four wins or more of value from him this year.
also
easy to debate how good of a prospect bumgarner is, but he appears to be the leader for the 5th spot.
by giantdonkey on Feb 28, 2010 11:34 AM MST up reply actions
I was counting on Bumgarner as the 4th starter after Timmeh's season ending shoulder surgery...
coming up in a couple of weeks here.
It was definitely a huge oversight on my part not putting in Bumgarner.. I was realizing that this afternoon but I think I decided at that point I’d just chalk this one into “not Rox Girl’s Greatest Work” category and look at Bumgarner and Posey more seriously this week in the upside post, as both are obviously pretty solid in that category. At any rate, MadBum at number 5 would bump Wellemeyer down to sixth and Pucetas/Martinez to 7th starter level.
I thought Alvarado went to Japan.
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You're probably right,
Shows how much I pay attention to our rivals’ sixth starter options. If Charlie Haeger’s gone (he’s out of options) I guess they have McDonald and Elbert in the bullpen and Russ Ortiz to fall back on. I’ll try and figure out what the projections suggest for them, but it probably won’t change the outlook much (although Elbert has a JDLR-esque upside).
I'm ruling out Elbert
Shoulder tendinitis is delaying his Spring preparation, and given that he’s also out of options, he’ll either have to start the season on the DL for LA or in the bullpen, and those shoulder issues just make me really doubtful that they try and stretch him out for the rotation. It seems their best and most likely Joe Torre picked sixth starter options would be one of the Ortiz’s or Jeff Weaver. And in any of those cases, the pitchers don’t project to be better than Alvarado’s projection.
elbert
i don’t believe he’s out of options.
by giantdonkey on Feb 28, 2010 11:33 AM MST up reply actions
I would genuinely love it if a knuckleballer makes it this season
As long as it doesn’t harm us, obv.
doh, teaches me for writing on assumptions without looking stuff up
I still feel he’s an unlikely 6th starter for them with the shoulder, though.
Stults is out of options
I get the two lefty E names mixed up too
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 28, 2010 1:17 PM MST up reply actions
+1
raygu
www.faketeams.com
www.sbnation.com
by Ray Guilfoyle on Mar 1, 2010 11:06 AM MST up reply actions
Man I love our pitching
I especially can’t wait to play with it in The Show ’10 that arrives in two days!!!! weeeeeeeeeeee
Stan Marsh is a Rockies fan.
Tracy mentioned Dave Roberts in the article when talking ahout CarGo and Fowler
I think I might scream if Tracy thinks Fowler = Roberts.
Impossible not to have positive thoughts.
I want Sam Deduno to pitch already.
Eh, Roberts was a glorified 4th OF.
We all know Fowler is better. :D
by Greg Stanwood on Feb 28, 2010 10:46 AM MST up reply actions
I agree on Fowler being better, much better, actually, but disagree on the assessment of Roberts
In his three best seasons (2002, 2005 and 2006) he was an MLB starting caliber OF, and it could therefore probably be assumed he was in 2003 and 2004 as well, but was limited by injury and being on contending teams where “starting caliber” isn’t going to cut it as much as “contending caliber”.
I was just pontificating.
No serious analysis intended.
by Greg Stanwood on Feb 28, 2010 11:13 AM MST up reply actions
Opening pitching schedule for Cactus League play:
3/4 @ ARI:
- Jason Hammel (1-2)
- Franklin Morales (3-4)
- Rafael Betancourt (5)
- Randy Flores (6)
- Manny Corpas (7)
- Juan Rincon (8-9)
3/5 @ LAA:
- Ubaldo Jimenez (1-3)
- Greg Smith (4-5)
- Matt Daley (6)
- Matt Reynolds (7)
- Matt Belisle (8-9)
Too many Matts.
3/5 @ SF:
- Jeff Francis (1-2)
- Esmil Rogers (3-4)
- Greg Reynolds (5-6)
- Justin Speier (7)
- Jimmy Gobble (8)
- ??? (9)
Two whole innings of Greg Reynolds
who’s ready? lol
Stan Marsh is a Rockies fan.
by fantasyfencing on Feb 28, 2010 1:23 PM MST up reply actions
2012 Cy Young winner.
I mean, say what you like about the tenets of Rockies baseball, Dude, at least it's an ethos.
Ubaldo gets thrown into the fire already with 3 innings
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 28, 2010 2:02 PM MST up reply actions
Smith
I would like to see Smith win 20 games a few seasons to put icing on the cake of the Holliday trade.
by brian8065 on Feb 28, 2010 1:23 PM MST via mobile reply actions
20 games
It is going to be very hard for any Rockie to win 20.
by brian8065 on Feb 28, 2010 2:00 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Hope springs eternal...
It may be true that 20 wins maybe stretch; wish against it too hard and the baseball gods will smite you.
BWAHAHAHA
I assume you mean in something other than baseball?
(yes, I’m sorry dear)
I can haz NL West title?
Maybe.
Is there a triple crown in shuffling?
by Greg Stanwood on Feb 28, 2010 4:45 PM MST up reply actions
no, Reynolds will jockey his way to through the belmont, etc
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 28, 2010 8:35 PM MST up reply actions
yes, silver
that was the joke
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 28, 2010 8:43 PM MST up reply actions
yeah it's been a long day
and eventful
and I even did a crapload of homework
so I think I’m missing anything subtle
I can haz NL West title?
http://www.nooooooooooooooo.com/
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 28, 2010 4:09 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
Reccin dis
Don't hate the player, hate the game, except all Yankees players.
by SoxRoxFan on Feb 28, 2010 4:13 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
you didn't rec it though
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 28, 2010 8:35 PM MST up reply actions
Awesome game.
We weren’t supposed to even win a medal. They had to do it in OVERTIME.
Don't hate the player, hate the game, except all Yankees players.
Well that was scary.
Just got off the phone with the Tourists GM. Yikes. Really nice guy, but still. Yikes. I hate cold-calling.
I can haz NL West title?
Setting up time to yak about jobs
I got his number from one of my sister’s contacts re: us moving to Asheville. It was also apparently his PERSONAL number. So I called thinking it was his business number and he wasn’t going to pick up so I could leave a voicemail. Whoops.
For some reason he didn’t find it weird that I was calling him on Sunday night and gave me his office number so I could call him back and we could talk. Cool. And also still terrifying.
I can haz NL West title?
im sure there is a study stating
That a person’s vocabulary is halved when nervous or taken off guard. Which would mean you still likely made quite an impression
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 28, 2010 7:04 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
The whole time I was going don'tpickdon'tpickdon'tpickup
I am astounded he didn’t think I was a stalker for calling him on his personal number on Sunday night, but I managed to say everything I was going to say on the voicemail without sounding like a total idiot. I don’t know how I did it.
I can haz NL West title?
Well done.
I have been scouting out jobs with FSN when I come back to Denver this Summer. But I am afraid of cold calls.
by Greg Stanwood on Feb 28, 2010 7:12 PM MST up reply actions
I am terrified of cold calls.
But I really want the job with the Tourists. Something had to give…
I can haz NL West title?
Cold calls are never fun...
When I did sales, I always said to my self that the customers were my live entertainment for the day. I got payed to watch and listen.
My vocabulary drops significantly when recording Rowbot Radio.
by Greg Stanwood on Feb 28, 2010 7:11 PM MST up reply actions
in the one phone interview i have done
My vocabulary consisted solely of the word “absolutely”
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 28, 2010 7:40 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
That's funny, because "absolutely" is a word I use on Rowbot Radio all the time...
… you just never hear it because I cut it out every week. Whenever you hear Andrew say something I agree with, I usually say “absolutely”. Sounds really bad, which is why I get rid of it.
by Greg Stanwood on Feb 28, 2010 8:12 PM MST up reply actions
That is cool, and yes it would be terrifying
Too terrifying for me, actually, but then again, my social anxiety meter tends to rate at a Khalil Greene level.
by Rox Girl on Feb 28, 2010 7:04 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Too soon, lady...too soon.
Just kidding. And, in all actuality, I have the same issue.
Just an average guy with exceptional hair. Nothing more, nothing less.
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by Bryan Kilpatrick on Feb 28, 2010 8:45 PM MST up reply actions
I just can't ask out women
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 28, 2010 8:46 PM MST up reply actions
Are we
throwing a pity party, because I might as well join in.
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by Russ Oates on Feb 28, 2010 8:50 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
well see I tried tonight and that didn't work
so I’ll try again tomorrow with someone different
who’s up for the post-rejection drinkathon
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 28, 2010 8:51 PM MST up reply actions
I'll join in.
I’d add to this topic in detail but I’m not going to bore anyone.
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by Russ Oates on Feb 28, 2010 8:55 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
faaaace boooook
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 28, 2010 8:55 PM MST up reply actions
Exactly.
Find out all about it on Facebook through my status updates.
"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address
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by Russ Oates on Feb 28, 2010 8:58 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Yes,
but now I’m her future husband.
"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.
by Russ Oates on Feb 28, 2010 9:04 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Not my problem
he didn’t like you and almost nipped you.
"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.
by Russ Oates on Feb 28, 2010 9:10 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
It may not be your fault that your dog is evil incarnate
but maybe it should concern you
I can haz NL West title?
He loves me.
Other than that, he can do what he wants (evil or no).
"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
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by Russ Oates on Feb 28, 2010 9:27 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
I sir
would like to telecommute to that drinkathon
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
skype for everyone
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 28, 2010 9:17 PM MST up reply actions
Yeah, I'd love to come to your rejection party
But, uh, I’ve got stuff on, you know. I’m sure you understand. Have a great time you guys.
I work at a video conferencing company called MegaMeeting
I could hook up PR with an account. We allow 16 images at one time so lots of people could drink togather.
by TGumb on Mar 1, 2010 1:21 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
16 friends watching me weep.
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by Andrew Martin on Mar 1, 2010 2:15 PM MST up reply actions
15, unless you're watching yourself
and you consider yourself a friend of yourself.
"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.

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by Andrew Martin on Mar 1, 2010 3:14 PM MST up reply actions
If you like that response,
you’d love the ones I’d make in person.
"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address
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I liked my response
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by Andrew Martin on Mar 1, 2010 3:27 PM MST up reply actions
you could watch 15 people watch you weep
Many more could be watching, just not be seen.
Think of the Brady Bunch of weeping…
Man,
it truly is the 21st century.
Fabulous
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker


















