Thursday Rockpile: Kershaw vs. Webb, which pitcher do our rivals need more?
Steve Foster at Inside the Rockies has added a couple of preview discussion posts for the Rockies catcher and first base positions. Second base should be coming today, it's probably been posted while I've been writing this.
****
In case you missed it in the comments to yesterday's Rockpile, Jim McClennan at AZ Snakepit has interviewed Josh Byrnes. While he promises the Rockies come up in part two of the interview next week, he does bring up a concern about the team that I've addressed here in part one, that the Diamondbacks are in a "win now" mode. Byrnes doesn't exactly answer the real pertinent part of that question (that there's an implication that the team will have to rebuild in a season or two) which is wise on his part, so I wouldn't blame him.
We can continue to get a sense of the complete picture in Arizona by putting all the evidence together, and Byrnes' interview as well as this discussion mlb.com beat writer Steve Gilbert had with managing general partner Ken Kendrick do add some clues. The key quote from that one with regard to the NL West would be this:
"Maybe some of them have less need to make changes, and it's not over yet. There are still guys to be signed, but we think our moves, and comparing them to how we stack up against our rivals, we feel better about our chances than even we did this time a year ago. I think we have a better competitive opportunity in our division than we had a year ago."
This somewhat smacks of revisionist history, because at least until Brandon Webb's issues were known to be serious, the Diamondbacks were considered the most competitive rival to the Dodgers in 2009 by just about every source I looked at and if Kendrick says he didn't think so, either he's lying now or he was lying then. At any rate, this confirms a suspicion that I had that certain unnamed "rival executives" mentioned in a Buster Olney mailbag about a month ago being emboldened by the Dodgers inactivity referred almost solely to the Diamondbacks.
****
Troy Renck has a mailbag up in which he delves a bit into the status of a couple of pitchers we haven't talked much about this winter, Casey Weathers and Franklin Morales. Renck's feel is that Morales is better suited as a reliever. I would point out that this reminds me very much of where Jorge De La Rosa was a few seasons ago with Milwaukee, when the consensus was to move him to the bullpen as well. At any rate and regardless of what inning he enters, Morales should be a valuable part of the 2010 team.
Renck also blogs on Yorvit Torrealba and picks up on an interesting question I noticed yesterday, that two of our primary rivals have some honest-to-goodness wild cards in their rotations that they are relying heavily on. Brandon Webb and Clayton Kershaw are both capable of ace level production, but because of Kershaw's youth and inexperience and Webb's shoulder, both could swing far south of that in 2010. If either falters, it's pretty much lights out for their respective teams this season because neither really has a plan B for either of those starters.
Okay, this is where I'm going to segue into a tangent. Who is the bigger risk for their team? A few weeks ago I looked into what the Rockies needed from Jeff Francis (or his replacement if he proves incapable). I knew it wasn't quite what the team lost with Jason Marquis, so maybe a quick version of the same exercise would be useful for the Webb/Kershaw debate.
Clayton Kershaw
Last season, according to FanGraphs, the Dodgers had just under 138 runs of value from their starting pitching. Now, assuming that they only need to repeat that performance and not make up any lost ground from the offense or bullpen (which as I asserted yesterday, I'm dubious about) that equates to about fourteen wins. Kershaw himself provided about 28% of that value, or 38.4 runs. In 2010, I think it would be reasonable to assume that for the Dodgers to be competitive, he has to provide more value because A) Hiroki Kuroda isn't likely to totally replace Randy Wolf and B) Vicente Padilla and James McDonald or whoever is their 5th starter won't likely totally replace Kuroda and Padilla/Garland et al that they had in 2009. The slack that remains has to be picked up by Billingsley and Kershaw. So if we're talking 14 wins (140 runs) by their rotation overall, what would be a good breakdown?
- Billingsley: 4.4 (His fan projection)
- Kershaw: ?
- Kuroda: 2.9 (his average for 2008 and 2009)
- Padilla: 1.5 (his average over the last three seasons)
- SP#5/6: ?
I'm not getting into what might be a bit too much optimism for Billingsley, and so far I'm also not considering the likely sub-replacement level production that might be coming from emergency starters (last season the Dodgers had -5.7 runs of value from McDonald, Charlie Haeger and Jason Schmidt) that leaves 5.2 wins to be divvied up between Kershaw and the fifth starter options. Keeping that sub-replacement possibility while they go through a trial and error phase in mind, I'm going to pencil in one win over replacement for their 5/6, leaving Kershaw responsible for an almost exact repeat of his total 2009 performance (including some relief work) of 4.2 wins.
So, unless Kuroda or Padilla come up with unexpectedly valuable seasons, there doesn't appear to be much margin for error here. Kershaw, who will be 22 years old on Opening Day, can not take a step back this year if the Dodgers want to compete.
Brandon Webb
Figuring out what the Diamondbacks need is trickier, just because we know they need more from their starting rotation than they got in 2009 to be competitive, it's just not entirely clear how much more. Looking at he 2009 Giants might be a pretty good start, as they proved at that level of starting performance, they can be competitive with some luck.
So let's say the Snakes have to add 25 runs above replacement to their 133 from 2009 rotation to get up to the 158 that the Giants had and call it 16 wins.
- Dan Haren: 6.0 (his fan projection)
- Brandon Webb: ?
- Edwin Jackson: 2.4 (fans projection) to 3.5 (a repeat of 2009)
- Ian Kennedy: 1.5 (fans, who suggest 116 IP) to 2.0 (extrapolating to @ 160 IP)
- Billy Buckner. et al: 1.0
You'll note that fan projections for D-backs starters are on the pessimistic side, especially, it seems, when compared to those for Dodgers players. At those levels for Jackson and Kennedy, Webb would need to be a 5.1 win starter in 2010 for the D-backs to have 16 wins from their rotation. If Jackson repeats or if Kennedy eats more innings than the fans are seeing, than it would drop the expected Webb contribution to 3.5. So Kershaw's relying on Kuroda and Padilla to provide him some slack, Webb's relying primarily on Jackson.
I don't know. I wouldn't like it if the Rockies were making either of these bets. 3.5 wins is a solid second starter, five is a bona fide ace. That 4.2 required of Kershaw's right in between. Right now, I'm leaning to Webb as the more likely of the two to meet his team's goals, and this is with all due respect to Kershaw, who I think is an ace in the making.
****
If this isn't brainy enough for you, Jay Jaffe at Baseball Prospectus (for subscribers) took a look at marginal payroll wins over the last three seasons by division, and as you could probably expect, the Rockies were largely responsible for propping the NL West up in two of those three seasons.
****
So I've noticed I've kind of been ignoring the Giants lately, I wonder why my subconscious seems to have written them off as a real threat. Maybe Sunday I'll get into that.
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323 comments
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Comments
You lost your train of though to end the second to last paragraph before the jump...
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 4, 2010 10:32 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
He didn't post either C or 1B until after 3:30pm
We probably shouldn’t expect it for five hours
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 4, 2010 10:39 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Catcher article comment
(hoping I don’t get banned here too for talking about Iannetta)
sigh….
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 4, 2010 10:41 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Dude, I need to ban you now
because you’re sort of discussing Iannetta by posting that.
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by Russ Oates on Feb 4, 2010 10:43 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
the "catcher" link seems to be non-existant in the Rockpile
can that be fixed?
Attention Whore.
by Muzia on Feb 4, 2010 10:44 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Try refresh
I fixed it about ten minutes ago….
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 4, 2010 10:44 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Waco Kid comes through again
fastest hands in the world!
Attention Whore.
by Muzia on Feb 4, 2010 11:05 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
You're really going to push this one, huh?
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 4, 2010 11:18 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
whenever it applies
I happen to like the name
Attention Whore.
by Muzia on Feb 4, 2010 11:26 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
It's frustrating
Cause I’ve seen that guys post on multiple blogs talking about how he got banned from here because of his stance on Iannetta.
by Chacinisthefuture on Feb 4, 2010 11:15 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
he likes to play martyr on Mile High Hockey
Attention Whore.
by Muzia on Feb 4, 2010 11:16 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Also seen him on Denver Stiffs I believe
by Chacinisthefuture on Feb 4, 2010 11:17 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
What’s interesting is that seemed like his most fair and reasoned evaluation of Iannetta.
"I clearly miscalculated how popular it would be to show Calvin urinating on a Ford logo"--Bill Watterson
by frightenedinmate#2 on Feb 4, 2010 11:38 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Where are you guys seeing this?
"Bob Gibson is the luckiest pitcher in baseball. He's always pitching when the other team doesn't score any runs." - Tim McCarver
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 4, 2010 11:42 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Catcher discussion thread
on insidetherockies.com
Attention Whore.
by Muzia on Feb 4, 2010 11:42 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Ah I see it now
Thanks
"Bob Gibson is the luckiest pitcher in baseball. He's always pitching when the other team doesn't score any runs." - Tim McCarver
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 4, 2010 11:45 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't even know he'd been banned.
Though I did see him on another blog and realize that I hadn’t seen him around here lately.
by holly96 on Feb 4, 2010 11:39 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
It was when we signed Olivo
a stream of profanity can’t be tolerated
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 4, 2010 11:40 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
When you get banned go you get an email
or is just you show up and you’re locked out?
"Bob Gibson is the luckiest pitcher in baseball. He's always pitching when the other team doesn't score any runs." - Tim McCarver
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 4, 2010 11:47 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know - I haven't been banned
I think you get locked out, with a message from a moderator explaining the situation. Part of that message is now Redhawk’s signature
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 4, 2010 11:49 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I just went and found his signature.
It’s like he wears it with a badge of honor. Lame, dude.
by holly96 on Feb 4, 2010 12:24 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
what's worse is that's the actual ban message
but only part of it. You know, editing out the parts that put it into any sort of context.
It’s sad, honestly.
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 4, 2010 12:26 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
What does it say?
"Bob Gibson is the luckiest pitcher in baseball. He's always pitching when the other team doesn't score any runs." - Tim McCarver
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 4, 2010 12:58 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Here's one of his recent comments with the sig.
by holly96 on Feb 4, 2010 1:01 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
What are the odds he comes back undera new username?
"Bob Gibson is the luckiest pitcher in baseball. He's always pitching when the other team doesn't score any runs." - Tim McCarver
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 4, 2010 1:14 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
We've gotten random ghosties register one day, just to rag on Iannetta, then never return.
While that certainly isn’t necessarily Redhawk, it suggests that somebody who takes that position may be flaunting it through ghost nicks.
by WolfMarauder on Feb 4, 2010 1:33 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I think it would be funny if he registered as Redhawk2.0
"Bob Gibson is the luckiest pitcher in baseball. He's always pitching when the other team doesn't score any runs." - Tim McCarver
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 4, 2010 1:36 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
So is Redhawk still invited..
To future Rowbbbq’s?
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by Charlie77 on Feb 5, 2010 1:19 AM MST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
So does it take all three or just one of the three to get banned?
Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah, 1983
by pedalpusher on Feb 4, 2010 2:43 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
It's a judgement call
The last one isn’t really bannable. Redhawk was given a longer leash than most on the first two, since he was a regular (as opposed to a flippant troll) who truly contributed to the community. But you can only give so many warnings.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 4, 2010 2:49 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
the trifecta of doom!
no, it was the blatant, profane outburst toward F26 that pushed him over the edge.
the whole “telling writers their stuff is crap” thing was shortsighted, more based on personal relationships and how it ended up being kind of an additional slap in the face… yeah, things you learn :-(
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 4, 2010 2:50 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
While I certainly didn't appreciate having my article called crap...
I don’t have much of a problem with people expressing that opinion. Though it does sting.
The writer formerly known as Jabberwocky
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by Jeff Aberle on Feb 4, 2010 3:11 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
it was my article on the Olivo signing
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 4, 2010 3:12 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
AND IT WAS CRAP :-)
"Bob Gibson is the luckiest pitcher in baseball. He's always pitching when the other team doesn't score any runs." - Tim McCarver
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 4, 2010 3:14 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Purple Row: Take this personally
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 4, 2010 3:16 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
That dog looks exactly like one of my friend's dogs
"Bob Gibson is the luckiest pitcher in baseball. He's always pitching when the other team doesn't score any runs." - Tim McCarver
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 4, 2010 3:23 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
That was the one that led to the banning
Jabberwocky’s statistical based lineups article initially started those accusations
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 4, 2010 3:17 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I got warned one time
When I (indirectly) made fun of RMN’s love of Mike McCoy. I couldn’t post for a minute or something, and then there was a little message box that had a message from RMN. He’s very petty when it comes to his pet players.
by controlled_slide on Feb 4, 2010 11:57 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
yep, that was me warning you
the warn message:
“SLAP SLAP SLAP SLAP SLAP”
boy howdy that’s some serious stuff right there.
Thanks for calling me petty.
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 4, 2010 12:02 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
if you guys in general would rather me not attempt a sense of humor
I can just as soon be really boring and stuff
Purple Row: Take this personally
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 4, 2010 12:17 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't believe that you could
Do you really think I’m upset about a warning that happened like 5 months ago? Or that I think you’re petty or a jerk? ‘Cuz I’m not. And I don’t.
by controlled_slide on Feb 4, 2010 12:21 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
whenever redhawk discussions come up
I automatically jump to “aw balls here it goes”
sorry to overreact
Purple Row: Take this personally
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 4, 2010 12:23 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
/awkward unexpected reaction to hug
uhhhh
yeah sure!
^5
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 4, 2010 12:26 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
i think he meant 'pretty'.
..I think
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by Charlie77 on Feb 4, 2010 2:06 PM MST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty?
we saw his mug on youtube… A face only a mother could love.
The oxen are slow, but the earth is patient.
by rockieprogress on Feb 5, 2010 10:38 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
hey now, not cool
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by Charlie77 on Feb 5, 2010 11:25 PM MST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
you can still Z through the comments but you can't post any of your own
I got banned from McCovey. It’s strangely depressing.
Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity
by squalene203 on Feb 4, 2010 12:37 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
For what?
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 4, 2010 12:39 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Strange, no reason
can’t say I’m surprised
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 4, 2010 12:40 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
After the Spilly slam game, I cruised on over.
I was drunk and elated. I tried to get in an argument (I got my ass handed to me too). Bam. Banned.
Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity
by squalene203 on Feb 4, 2010 3:20 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
if I was still awake, I would have cruised with you
that sounds funny
Attention Whore.
by Muzia on Feb 4, 2010 3:22 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
They love you though...
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 4, 2010 3:23 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I am beloved throughout the world
not just at McCovey.
And only because I said F___ the Dodgers. It felt good!
Attention Whore.
by Muzia on Feb 4, 2010 3:24 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
You sent them that card too
"Bob Gibson is the luckiest pitcher in baseball. He's always pitching when the other team doesn't score any runs." - Tim McCarver
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 4, 2010 3:24 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess you probably deserved it then
MCC was very touchy around then. I think that’s when Grant deleted the front page. Hey – you were banned there twice in six minutes…good job
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 4, 2010 3:23 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Drinking and mixing MCC..
Is a bad idea, could lead to mental instability.
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by Charlie77 on Feb 5, 2010 11:27 PM MST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I've never been banned.
Probably simply because I only post here. I tend to get a lot of negative feedback about, well, everything I do.
by WolfMarauder on Feb 4, 2010 1:35 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
You've registed at a lot of other places though
"Bob Gibson is the luckiest pitcher in baseball. He's always pitching when the other team doesn't score any runs." - Tim McCarver
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 4, 2010 1:37 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
That's so I can follow opponent game threads live.
by WolfMarauder on Feb 4, 2010 1:39 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I can barely handle one game thread
They move so fast.
"Bob Gibson is the luckiest pitcher in baseball. He's always pitching when the other team doesn't score any runs." - Tim McCarver
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 4, 2010 1:45 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
My life is built around multitasking.
I’ve become quite good at it. During the baseball season, I am often watching the game, participating in the PR game thread, reading the opponents, following on GameDay, in addition to several unrelated baseball things (reading, writing a script, or about a film or television show). In this case, I am at work organizing camera equipment, participating here, reading an essay, reading Wittgenstein’s Philosophical Investigations, chatting opn Gmail with two friends, and also reading two online forum discussions on IMDB.
by WolfMarauder on Feb 4, 2010 1:48 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
But NOT proofreading my posts.
on*
by WolfMarauder on Feb 4, 2010 1:48 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
See, you have plenty of time to write an article if you so choose
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 4, 2010 1:49 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
If I felt like I knew enough about baseball to do that, I might be more inclined to.
:p
by WolfMarauder on Feb 4, 2010 1:51 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
(But regardless, it would still be rather difficult to make time to do this.)
by WolfMarauder on Feb 4, 2010 1:59 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Just do it while you're watching a film
recording Rowbot Radio, reading for class and saving the world from Turkey Flu.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 4, 2010 2:01 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, I still have the Turkey Flu strain.
I can release it if need be…
by WolfMarauder on Feb 4, 2010 2:06 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll counteract it with my cranberry flu virus
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 4, 2010 2:07 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I overshadow your cranberry flu with an outbreak of the deadly Mashed Potato Plague.
by WolfMarauder on Feb 4, 2010 2:09 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I found the boxset online for $75 last night
so close to buying it. so close.
Attention Whore.
by Muzia on Feb 4, 2010 2:17 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
what stopped you?
A hot dog at the ballgame beats roast beef at the Ritz. ~Humphrey Bogart
by Maria M on Feb 4, 2010 2:18 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I figure it will still be there
and I already spent enough on my birthday presents.
New video camera, photo print from a talented local artist, Sonic Youth LP boxset…
Attention Whore.
by Muzia on Feb 4, 2010 2:22 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Pitchers and catchers report is exactly 2 weeks from today.
by WolfMarauder on Feb 4, 2010 2:32 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Carribean World Series
Puerto Rico vs. Mexico!
Vinny singled in the 4th and scored on an error. You can watch on GameDay.
Is it Opening Day yet??? See you at Coors.
by TripleT-Rox on Feb 4, 2010 2:54 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
It's funny cause someone from around here called him on the real reason eh got banned
and he still didn’t see anything wrong, that the argument had gotten to the point, that it was justified.
by Chacinisthefuture on Feb 4, 2010 11:50 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
It must have been deleted before I saw it.
by holly96 on Feb 4, 2010 12:20 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, it was pretty over the top
we had to hide it from public consumption
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 4, 2010 12:20 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
If you missed it, think Zach de la Rocha at the end of “Killing in the Name”.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
by Franchise26 on Feb 4, 2010 12:48 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
hm. interesting take.
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 4, 2010 12:50 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Compromise/conformity/assimilation/submission
Ignorance/ hypocrisy/brutality/the elite
All of which are American Dreams!
All of which are American Dreams!
All of which are—-
oh. wrong song?
Attention Whore.
by Muzia on Feb 4, 2010 12:54 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Here’s the thread. The vitriolic stuff happened after F26’s “Crazy pills” comment.
by controlled_slide on Feb 4, 2010 12:23 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I remember that thread.
Just came in after the fact and missed the vitriol.
by holly96 on Feb 4, 2010 12:28 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
ha, F26 FTW.
Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity
by squalene203 on Feb 4, 2010 12:33 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
he's super confrontational
but he doesn’t break THE RULES

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by Andrew Martin on Feb 4, 2010 12:43 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I walk the line so expertly, I’m practically the Johnny Cash of PR.
Sooner or later, gonna get you banned er, cut you down.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
by Franchise26 on Feb 4, 2010 12:47 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Also, I want to make that guy my avatar now.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
by Franchise26 on Feb 4, 2010 12:49 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Tulo will not be happy :-)
"Bob Gibson is the luckiest pitcher in baseball. He's always pitching when the other team doesn't score any runs." - Tim McCarver
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 4, 2010 1:04 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Tulo: Jim, why would Franchise26 get rid of me as his avatar! And for a stupid cartoon man with a star! I need every Nebraska radio show host to worship me…

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 4, 2010 1:09 PM MST up reply actions 3 recs
+1
"Bob Gibson is the luckiest pitcher in baseball. He's always pitching when the other team doesn't score any runs." - Tim McCarver
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 4, 2010 1:15 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I remember the day it happened
Mostly because I was one of the people arguing with him – although it was F26’s comments that drove him off the ledge. I wasn’t sure if he’d been banned or just warned and put into time out for a day or so. Haven’t seen him for a while, so I assume he’s banned.
by controlled_slide on Feb 4, 2010 11:41 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't know he was gone either
kind of a shame, while certainly occasionally off his rocker I thought he brought a lot to the community overall. Too bad he just couldn’t control himself sometimes…
by Teekalong on Feb 4, 2010 4:07 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
i definitely share this sentiment
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 5, 2010 7:58 AM MST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
yep
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 5, 2010 8:43 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Watching Kershaw in 2009
it’s clear that he’s on the brink of dominating but not quite there yet. There were several games where he let things get away from him and visibly panicked. He also threw some absolute gems. I doubt 2010 is the year he puts it all together, but he’s very close.
I think Webb stands a better chance of putting in a more complete year. It’s all a question of recovering from injury. I still think their bullpen will the bigger question mark, though having more starters that can go deeper should help a lot.
by phishbate on Feb 4, 2010 10:47 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
The Webb/Kershaw debate is such an interesting question
I fall on the other side of the debate from and Rox Girl. Last year Kershaw had a 4.2 WAR in 169 innings pitched so borrowing injury this season I don’t think it’s likly that he falls anywhere below 4.0 and it’s even possible he could go over 5.0. Webb on the other hand had and average WAR of 6.3 from 2005 through 2008 but there’s no way to know if he will ever be able to regain that form again; let alone this seaon. Although I think Webb has a higher ceiling for this season, I think he’s too much of a question mark to bet on.
"Bob Gibson is the luckiest pitcher in baseball. He's always pitching when the other team doesn't score any runs." - Tim McCarver
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 4, 2010 11:31 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I think of it this way
Kershaw is like going all in on three of a kind (You know what you’ve got)
Webb is like going all in on a flush draw (Could be awesome but you just can’t be sure)
"Bob Gibson is the luckiest pitcher in baseball. He's always pitching when the other team doesn't score any runs." - Tim McCarver
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 4, 2010 11:32 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
is this a fishing metaphor?
Attention Whore.
by Muzia on Feb 4, 2010 11:35 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
huh?
"Bob Gibson is the luckiest pitcher in baseball. He's always pitching when the other team doesn't score any runs." - Tim McCarver
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 4, 2010 11:47 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
just giving you a little sass
I am bored.
Attention Whore.
by Muzia on Feb 4, 2010 11:56 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe soon your boredom will be relieved
I checked Blamb’s profile, and he logged in again 2 days ago – his first time since last August. Excited?
And yes, I realize that this seems really stalkerish. I have no words in my defense.
by controlled_slide on Feb 4, 2010 12:18 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah...that's a little weird
(and this is coming from the guy who emailed him in the first place)
Attention Whore.
by Muzia on Feb 4, 2010 12:20 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I just don't know if you can be that certain with Kershaw
He was very lucky last season with HR’s allowed, and it would only take a handful more to bring him down a peg. He was walking just as many hitters at the end of last season as at the beginning. I really think 4.2 was lucky for him 2009, rather than what we should expect, and I’d really like to know why you feel he’s such a safe bet to repeat that without taking a leap forward in his BB numbers.
And I guess I’m also really dubious that 4.2 wins is all they will end up needing from him, the more I think about it, the more I think I was being generous in my post. I think Billingsley’s solid, but I’m not really sold on him being a 4.4 win pitcher next year. I see him more as a Matt Cain 3.5 to 4.0 type, which adds another half win to what the rest of the rotation will need to make up. If their offense retrenches, and it seems that’s the most likely outcome, that could add even more responsibility, because the bullpen seems maxed out to me as is.
by Rox Girl on Feb 4, 2010 11:58 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Did anybody figure out a good reason why Billingsley was so horrific in the second half? That guy was a Cy candidate for three months and then in the second half he was brutal.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
by Franchise26 on Feb 4, 2010 12:55 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Billz
He was unlucky in the 2nd half as he had a strand rate of 64% in the 2nd half of last year….average is around 70-72%, and his HR.FB increased to 13% VS career average around 9%.
raygu
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by Ray Guilfoyle on Feb 4, 2010 1:02 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Such stats can be indicative of bad luck
but they can also be indicative of bad pitch placement, or even the tipping of pitches. If you get more pitches in the middle of the plate or the hitter knows what’s coming, there will be more home runs and less runners stranded.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 4, 2010 1:04 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
true
but it can be corrected and his strand rate and HR/FB should regress to the mean, right?
raygu
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by Ray Guilfoyle on Feb 4, 2010 1:06 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
stands to reason, yeah
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 4, 2010 1:07 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't argue he can't improve or bounce back
It’s just a debate whether it was bad luck or bad mechanics.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 4, 2010 1:10 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I just remember seeing him getting knocked around. His fastball looked flatter and he was wilder.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
by Franchise26 on Feb 4, 2010 1:12 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, that's why I was leaning more towards faulty mechanics than bad luck
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 4, 2010 1:13 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
billz is so young..
Who knows what his real mean is? That being said, the Guy is a stud. Maybe the next Ubaldo.
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by Charlie77 on Feb 4, 2010 2:31 PM MST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I think Kershaw will have at least a 4.0 WAR because young pitchers usually improve
Even though his BB/9 numbers got worse as the season went on last year I’d give him a pass because it was his first full season in the majors. I’d imagine that one of the biggest things he’s working on this offseason is cutting down on the number of walks he had. His BB problems remind me a lot of Jon Lester’s BB problems when he fist came up. (4.8 BB/9 in 2006 and 4.4 BB/9 in 2007 in limited action) I’m not saying Kershaw’s BB problems will be cured this season, I just think those numbers will improve.
Kershaw was lucky with his HR’s allowed last year but even if that number goes up I think it will only go up a little because Dodger stadium is where HR’s go to die. (I don’t see HR’s allowed completely ruining his season this year)
I agree with you’re second point about a 4.2 WAR might not ending up being what the Dodgers need from him if you are talking about them catching the Rockies. If you are talking about them in relation to the Dbacks than I disagree. One of the other reasons why I’m not too high on Arizona is I have a huge problem with their offense. Last season Ryan Robests led the team in OBP with a .367 mark and I just don’t think that’s good enough. I understand they have a couple of great hitters in that lineup but it’s not going to matter if most of Mark Reynold’s HR’s come when their is nobody one base. While I agree that LA will regress a little offensively, I still think Arizona has some work to do to catch them in that department.
"Bob Gibson is the luckiest pitcher in baseball. He's always pitching when the other team doesn't score any runs." - Tim McCarver
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 4, 2010 12:56 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Kershaw
Rox Girl- you said “He was walking just as many hitters at the end of last season as at the beginning.”
I have to correct you here as his BB rate in the 1st half was around 5 and was around 4 in the 2nd half of 2009, and he increased his K/9 rate by 2 in the 2nd half vs the first half (10.9/9-8.9/9)
You are assuming he doesn’t improve his control. why can’t he improve his control? I may be biased, but I think he can.
the bullpen is maxed out? not sure what that means? has their performance peaked? if so, how?
raygu
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by Ray Guilfoyle on Feb 4, 2010 12:59 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Maxed out = overworked
just a guess. Belisario and Troncoso were leaned on heavily last year. It’s common for a reliever to falter after a good, hard-working year, especially under Joe Torre. The Rockies know Luis Viacaino well.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 4, 2010 1:01 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Kershaw
is no different thanany young pitcher when the going gets tough….he does let things get away from him and panicks, sure….alot of pitchers do
raygu
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by Ray Guilfoyle on Feb 4, 2010 1:07 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Webb doesn't
and that’s all I was trying to compare.
Let’s just say I’m a huge Kershaw fan (minus the whole Dodger thing) but in 2010 I don’t think he’s mentally there yet to put in a complete year the way an injury-free Webb can. Kershaw is very close to being a beast though.
by phishbate on Feb 4, 2010 1:13 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Webb
are you that confident he will be healthy for the whole season and be the same pitcher he was prior to the injury? I am not, and I would say that about any Dodger pitcher coming off injury as well.
raygu
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by Ray Guilfoyle on Feb 4, 2010 1:15 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
In one instance, the Rockies and DBacks are in the same position
Both have a former Ace coming back from arm troubles and don’t know what to expect from them. The two differences obviously are that #1 Webb is better than Francis and #2 the Rockies don’t NEED Francis as much as the Dbacks NEED Webb because they have more pitching debth.
"Bob Gibson is the luckiest pitcher in baseball. He's always pitching when the other team doesn't score any runs." - Tim McCarver
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 4, 2010 1:21 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Francis was NEVER at the level Webb was at
Francis was an “ace” by positioning only.
I know what you’re saying, we’re both getting potential major contributors back, but pound for pound as pitchers, it’s a bit unreal of a comparison.
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 4, 2010 1:23 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I did say Webb was better than Francis
"Bob Gibson is the luckiest pitcher in baseball. He's always pitching when the other team doesn't score any runs." - Tim McCarver
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 4, 2010 1:26 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
true enough, I just fear that people are fooling themselves on Francis
by referring to him as an “ace” – yes, he was our best pitcher at the time, but relative Ace is different than Absolute Ace
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 4, 2010 1:35 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I haven't seen anyone on this site mistake Francis for a true Ace.
by phishbate on Feb 4, 2010 1:36 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
just picking a nit, that's all
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 4, 2010 1:40 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Do you consider Cole Hamels an ace?
Because in 2007 Francis outplayed Cole. They have similar styles.
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by Charlie77 on Feb 4, 2010 2:58 PM MST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
He was an ace in 2008, that's or sure
I’m not sure what to make of him now.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 4, 2010 2:59 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
He's a great pitcher
but doesn’t scream Ace to me but that’s mostly subjective. He’s is a better pitcher than Francis though.
by phishbate on Feb 4, 2010 3:08 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
You are what you repeatedly do
Cole has only done it for one season so I would say no.
"Bob Gibson is the luckiest pitcher in baseball. He's always pitching when the other team doesn't score any runs." - Tim McCarver
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 4, 2010 3:16 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
He's had four fairly consistent seasons.
If you want to get technical, 2009 was almost identical according to his FIP, k/9, bb/9, etc. Hitters might have figured out his changeup or he was super unlucky but he was pretty much the same pitcher.
by phishbate on Feb 4, 2010 3:20 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I probably should have put a much in front of that better
"Bob Gibson is the luckiest pitcher in baseball. He's always pitching when the other team doesn't score any runs." - Tim McCarver
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 4, 2010 1:40 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't put any money on it
but I think he’ll bounce back. Maybe not be 100% his former self, especially early in the season, but I think he’ll be solid. It’s always a crapshoot with those types of injuries but everything I’ve read (taken with a grain of salt) has me thinking he’ll be back.
by phishbate on Feb 4, 2010 1:28 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I spoke briefly with Casey Weathers...
at the Rockies fanfest weekend before last. He didn’t know where he’d open the season but was anxious to get started, feeling great and ready to go.
Also said he gave up his blog because of all the grief he was taking from other players. Nice guy, very pleasant.
by alex colfax on Feb 4, 2010 10:57 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
Why were people giving him grief for writing a blog?
That seems silly.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 4, 2010 11:09 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
A reminder:
If anyone has any questions you want discussed on Rowbot Radio #2, let me know. I’ve only received one so far.
by WolfMarauder on Feb 4, 2010 10:58 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
Good reminder
Maybe I’ll compose a few
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 4, 2010 11:09 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Any guidelines to the questions?
by Chacinisthefuture on Feb 4, 2010 11:16 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
No, though baseball related questions are probably preferable.
I’m sure we’ll go off topic every once in a while, but on only the second issue, I’ll be sticking on topic as much as possible.
by WolfMarauder on Feb 4, 2010 1:38 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
SO WHEN WILL SDCAT POST HER PICTURE IN THE OTHER THREAD WON"T BE ANSWERED? :-)
"Bob Gibson is the luckiest pitcher in baseball. He's always pitching when the other team doesn't score any runs." - Tim McCarver
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 4, 2010 1:42 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
If she were on as a guest, maybe.
lol
by WolfMarauder on Feb 4, 2010 1:49 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll call her lame on the show weekly until she does
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 4, 2010 1:52 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
good idea....
A hot dog at the ballgame beats roast beef at the Ritz. ~Humphrey Bogart
by Maria M on Feb 4, 2010 2:17 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
How about some ST issues?
Like travel arrangements, best fields to hangout at, where to meet up with Phil and what bathrobe to take.
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by Charlie77 on Feb 5, 2010 1:26 AM MST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I'd stay away from questions concerning catchers :)
Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah, 1983
by pedalpusher on Feb 4, 2010 3:28 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Joe Torre quote on Manny Ramirez' struggles last season
It’s not easy to do, especially on a first-place team, taking somebody out of the lineup like Juan Pierre. He felt a lot of pressure and fought himself a lot."
I guess now that Manny doesn’t have the pressure to replace the production of Juan Pierre, he won’t struggle so much…
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 4, 2010 11:29 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
It of course had nothing to do with the whole drug thing right Joe?
by Chacinisthefuture on Feb 4, 2010 11:36 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Dude's emotional right now
give him a break
Attention Whore.
by Muzia on Feb 4, 2010 11:38 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
To much Estrogen contribute to that emotion thing?
by Chacinisthefuture on Feb 4, 2010 11:50 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
you and I will never truly understand the joys of childbirth
Attention Whore.
by Muzia on Feb 4, 2010 11:54 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
manny will be fine
raygu
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by Ray Guilfoyle on Feb 4, 2010 1:05 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
it's like groundhog day
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 4, 2010 1:08 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
What's fine?
"Bob Gibson is the luckiest pitcher in baseball. He's always pitching when the other team doesn't score any runs." - Tim McCarver
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 4, 2010 1:08 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
MAnny
.300 BA, 25-30 HRs, 90+ RBI….he’ll be fine
raygu
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by Ray Guilfoyle on Feb 4, 2010 1:13 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm predicting .300/.400/.500
which is still pretty solid.
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 4, 2010 1:18 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Freaked out
Insecure
Neurotic
Emotional
JFK
by jrockies on Feb 5, 2010 6:37 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I wanna sign Bedard for $1.5M
can we Mommy? Please?
Attention Whore.
by Muzia on Feb 4, 2010 12:58 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
Hammel to bullpen?
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 4, 2010 12:59 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
why not?
he would be great insurance against a risky signing. But if Bedard is only looking for a $1.5M deal plus incentives…why not test the waters?
Attention Whore.
by Muzia on Feb 4, 2010 1:03 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
because we've spent enough!!!!!!!111111111
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 4, 2010 1:08 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
WHY DO YOU HATE WINNING SO MUCH RMN
Attention Whore.
by Muzia on Feb 4, 2010 1:09 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
$1.5M wouldn't be much risk but I think he has some serious injury issues now.
by phishbate on Feb 4, 2010 1:09 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
oh I know there is a less than zero chance of it happening
I am just getting a little Mariners envy, that’s all
Attention Whore.
by Muzia on Feb 4, 2010 1:11 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Hitting stats to chew on
Cargo is “best” at hitting down & away, Ryan Howard one of the worst.
Hawpe is excellent middle-away.
Seth Smith is tops with up & in, Holliday & Barmes some of the worst.
Helton is great up-middle, Giambi is not.
Small sample size alert (this is just 2009 where the hitter was swinging) but I thought it was a nice diversion on a slow day.
by phishbate on Feb 4, 2010 1:03 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
I swear it worked before I posted
but it’s fixed below.
by phishbate on Feb 4, 2010 1:05 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Well now we know how to beat Utley and Howard for next time
"Bob Gibson is the luckiest pitcher in baseball. He's always pitching when the other team doesn't score any runs." - Tim McCarver
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 4, 2010 1:11 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Take Street out?
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 4, 2010 1:13 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I hemmed and hawed, and you beat me to it. That bitterness won’t subside until pitchers and catchers report.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
by Franchise26 on Feb 4, 2010 1:16 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
No have Cargo play on the warning track :-)
"Bob Gibson is the luckiest pitcher in baseball. He's always pitching when the other team doesn't score any runs." - Tim McCarver
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 4, 2010 1:25 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
The Twins Payroll is gonna be really big next year (for them)
"Bob Gibson is the luckiest pitcher in baseball. He's always pitching when the other team doesn't score any runs." - Tim McCarver
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 4, 2010 1:34 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
It's probably going to rise and stay there
with the new revenue. And they better hope revenue jumps and stays there if they want to afford keeping Mauer.
by phishbate on Feb 4, 2010 1:35 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
They could be over 100 million next year if they sign Mauer
"Bob Gibson is the luckiest pitcher in baseball. He's always pitching when the other team doesn't score any runs." - Tim McCarver
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 4, 2010 1:44 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
We could be over 100 million next year if we don't let Helton's raise affect the rest of the budget.
by WolfMarauder on Feb 4, 2010 1:50 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
How so?
He’s only getting a $2.5M bump next year.
I believe in a risen Francis
by Rawktober on Feb 4, 2010 2:33 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Which could discourage the FO from making another payroll upgrade.
Jut a possibility.
by WolfMarauder on Feb 4, 2010 2:35 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
But we also get to dump Hawpe's salary next year
Which would also cover some of the other commitments as well (Tulo, Ubaldo).
I believe in a risen Francis
by Rawktober on Feb 4, 2010 2:38 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
watch him post another .900 OPS season
but stretch it through the season this time
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 4, 2010 2:39 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
First baseman in 2012
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 4, 2010 2:40 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
but that means that other guys lose playing time in the field until 2012
and who’s to say that Helton’s 100% gonna retire in 2012?
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 4, 2010 2:43 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I was actually being sarcastic
I would take the bet that Helton will still be productive and solid defensively for cheaper in 2012 than Hawpe switching positions.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 4, 2010 2:46 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
damn
whoosh
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 4, 2010 2:48 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
it's hard to infuse obvious sarcasm in four words
especially when it’s a common opinion
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 4, 2010 2:49 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
OT: I was thinking
If you and RMN wanted to really confuse people you should awitch avatars.
"Bob Gibson is the luckiest pitcher in baseball. He's always pitching when the other team doesn't score any runs." - Tim McCarver
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 4, 2010 3:41 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
awitch switch
"Bob Gibson is the luckiest pitcher in baseball. He's always pitching when the other team doesn't score any runs." - Tim McCarver
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 4, 2010 3:42 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Steve Foster posted his
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 4, 2010 2:41 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
I hope some of those questions aren't serious.
by phishbate on Feb 4, 2010 2:49 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
seriously
“Cross our fingers that Mora regains form” or whatever? Does Foster not realize that he was signed as a backup?
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 4, 2010 2:52 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, given the forum that the piece is supposed to be a conversation starter
and there really is no other choice at 2B at this point, I see no harm in suggesting it, even if it’s just for everyone to shoot down.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 4, 2010 2:53 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I know that's what it was
but some are really stretching and not remotely realistic. We may as well hope that Todd has cybernetic leg implants and takes over 2B.
Come to think of it…
by phishbate on Feb 4, 2010 2:55 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Heh
At least he didn’t suggest: “Start Hector Gomez at second in a trial-by-fire. Hey – it worked for Everth Cabrera”
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 4, 2010 2:58 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
well of course there's no harm
but why not suggest Seth Smith learn 2B while we’re at it?
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 4, 2010 2:57 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
That's completely unreasonable
Suggesting that a guy should be the full time starter who WILL take reps at 2B and likely WILL start at 2B on occasion isn’t nearly a stretch, if you believe in a resurgence in Mora’s bat.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 4, 2010 2:59 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
he kind of shot down the 'Mora is a 2B' thing by citing his lack of 2B experience though
I know that it’s going to be more reasonable to say “hey infielder play 2B”, but why build up “Mora hasn’t really ever played 2B” and then follow up with “Should we start Mora fulltime at 2B?”
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 4, 2010 3:03 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I still think
noting it as a remote option (and it is one) fosters (no put intended) more open discourse and doesn’t necessarily require him to agree that the option makes good sense.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 4, 2010 3:08 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
true enough I suppose
it just seemed a big enough stretch that hadn’t really been suggested elsewhere to make me wonder why even include it
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 4, 2010 3:10 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Isn't it amazing that our weakest offensive position has really only one other option
now that free agents are not a possibility? And EY2 isn’t necessarily a solid option either. If he went with just what makes sense, it would have been “Spring countdown discussion: Barmes is the starter, deal with it, end of discussion”
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 4, 2010 3:19 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
It leads to a good question though..
What happens if Barmes is injured and EY2 isn’t ready? Do we go with 4 OF and let Tulo/stewie cover 3/4 of the IF?
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by Charlie77 on Feb 4, 2010 6:47 PM MST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
That's a good point too
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 4, 2010 7:32 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I still maintain in most cases we need to sit Barmes, it'll be Stewart at 2B, with Mora at 3B.
But we’ll see.
by WolfMarauder on Feb 4, 2010 4:31 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think Stewart plays good enough defense at second
to make up for the offense Mora gives you over Barmes
"Bob Gibson is the luckiest pitcher in baseball. He's always pitching when the other team doesn't score any runs." - Tim McCarver
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 4, 2010 4:33 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Strewart's 2B defense is not good, but I do not think it is as bad as everyone seems to have convinced themselves it is.
He could very easily be better defensively at 2B than Mora. If that’s not the case, then yes, put Mora there instead.
by WolfMarauder on Feb 4, 2010 4:35 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Stew might be better, he hasn't played enough to really evaluate.
I hope Mora can adjust, I don’t want starters jumping around day to day. That’s why we got Mora :\
by phishbate on Feb 4, 2010 4:37 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
He's played a lot more than Mora.
If you feel we can’t evaluate Stewart’s expected 2B skills, then I think you have to concede that we certainly can’t evaluate Mora’s either.
by WolfMarauder on Feb 4, 2010 4:38 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I shouldn't have said "can't"
but I want Stew at 3B if he’s playing.
by phishbate on Feb 4, 2010 4:39 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
So even if he's better at 2B than Mora, you'd rather keep him at 3B simply for consistency's sake?
We’re going to have to disagree on that one.
by WolfMarauder on Feb 4, 2010 4:41 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
How about the notion of limiting the variables in the Stewart equation?
Being forced to play four different positions may have taken away from his potential growth with the bat.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 4, 2010 4:44 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
It definitely could have.
But we’re going to be starting Barmes 19 times out of 20, at least. If Stewart loses focus at 3B because he has to play 2B once a month, he’s got more serious problems than that.
by WolfMarauder on Feb 4, 2010 5:00 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
while I'm no fan of moving Stew around
this point just makes a ton of sense.
by Teekalong on Feb 4, 2010 5:59 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Given Barmes' streakiness
planning on starting him not only 157 times but also 19 of 20 is a mistake, imo. He’ll have a 1-for-20 streak and need more time
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 4, 2010 7:33 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
He's a right hander in a sea of lefties.
He’ll get played regardless of performance, whether it be for better or worse, methinks.
by WolfMarauder on Feb 4, 2010 7:34 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I still won't guarantee that
Remember, at this time last year, many people wanted Jeff Baker to be the main starter. And Barmes had a worse season in 2009 than 2008. I don’t think he’s locked into being the starter, at all.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 4, 2010 7:46 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
To add to this
You’re suggesting Barmes will start all but 8 games, yet as invisible as Omar Quintanilla was last season, he started six. There’s a lot that happens in the season (injuries, hot/cold streaks, illness, platoon splits, childbirths, kidnappings) that force you to use your bench far more than you would expect.
Only one 2Bman started 95% of their teams games as you suggest Barmes will. He’s not a Cano/Hill/Roberts/Utley/Uggla type.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 4, 2010 8:09 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Mora has played a lot of 3B recently,
but I think Stew will be better defensively there. I accept your point about 2B though, Stew is probably “less bad” at 2B than Mora. I just hate the idea of jumping him around at a point when he has to really demonstrate consistency at the plate. I worry that will detract.
by phishbate on Feb 4, 2010 4:44 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Barmes is right hander in a lineup heavy in lefties.
Barring injury or apocalyptic slump (both of which would probably result in a callup of EY2 or some other suitable long-term replacement option), Barmes is going to be playing as close to all the time as we can expect. The ideal is, of course, that NEITHER Stewart or Mora have to play 2B very often. But between the two, I’d prefer my arrangement, and my only point is that I believe that on that 20th day when Barmes is out of the lineup for some reason, they shift Stewart over for that one day. Like I said above, if Stewart can’t adjust to that, he’s got a pretty serious fault, and I think you’d agree.
Ultimately, I still have yet to be convinced in any sense that inconsistency on the field is intrinsically detrimental to a team’s success at the game of baseball. Some players certainly do not react well to such inconsistency, and in cases of inconsistency on a regular scale (such as playing 2 positions regularly at equal intervals over a season), the effect it has could be more understandable from my point of view. But I’m not buying into the idea that Stewart playing 9 out of every 180 innings at 2B is going to cause problems nearly that significant for Stewart or the Rockies.
by WolfMarauder on Feb 4, 2010 5:05 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Agree
No need to mess up two positions where we have great defense
"Bob Gibson is the luckiest pitcher in baseball. He's always pitching when the other team doesn't score any runs." - Tim McCarver
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 4, 2010 5:34 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
We got Mora to back up 3B more than anything.
If he can play 2B, great, but he doesn’t have to. Starting Stewart at 2B once every two weeks is not “starters jumping around”.
by WolfMarauder on Feb 4, 2010 4:39 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Stewart*
Grr. Stupid flat Mac keyboard.
by WolfMarauder on Feb 4, 2010 4:37 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Have they fixed th single button mouse yet?
I hate Macs and their price.
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by Charlie77 on Feb 5, 2010 1:31 AM MST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think the problem is that he won't be as good as Mora
I think the problem is that either one of them won’t be as good defensively as Barmes.
"Bob Gibson is the luckiest pitcher in baseball. He's always pitching when the other team doesn't score any runs." - Tim McCarver
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 4, 2010 5:33 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I still wonder what makes you think the team will do this
That question hasn’t been directly addressed in any article or quote. The closest material we have on who would start if Barmes is on the bench is some vague lines about how Mora was signed for his versatility, ability to play second and that he would be playing most of the positions to get ready
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 4, 2010 4:39 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I am directly opposing their current position, not reporting it.
My position reflects that I believe they will come to the conclusion that putting Mora at 2B is a poorer idea than Stewart.
by WolfMarauder on Feb 4, 2010 4:40 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
So your conclusion is that they will have a change of heart based on some random event?
I’m not saying I necessarily agree that Stewart at second wouldn’t be the best plan, but I wouldn’t project that plan of action. They seemed to really value Mora’s “versatility.” He won’t be starting at catcher, first, short or in the outfield, and he’s certainly not going to be a defensive replacement for Barmes at second.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 4, 2010 4:43 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Here's how I'd break it down right now:
There are three potential sensical reasons (that I can see) why they would be highlighting Mora as versatile:
1. They truly intend for him to have a versatile role on the bench, including 2B, and believe that he has the capabilities to do so.
2. They’re spicing up their description of Mora for justification of his role on the bench, and actually already intend to use him in the situation that I’ve developed.
3. They’ve not yet made a decision, and believe that Mora is versatile enough to contend for a job backing up 2B, but are not certain.
I think most people right now are assuming #1 is the case. They’re translating the high talk of Mora’s versatility, along with their conceptions of a traditional bench role (which seems to be the preference here, which is not necessarily my own; I am not opposed at all to a regularly rotating starting 8, and won’t be until somebody shows me that it has a documented negative effect on a team’s success) have essentially produced the assumption that they intend for Mora to just be slotted at 2B.
But taking a step back from that, just in case one of #2 or #3 is the case: IS Mora really “versatile”?
Mora certainly COULD BECOME versatile. He could come into ST and fit right in, for all I know (not what I expect, but I don’t deny the possibility.) But think for a moment: without any media coverage on the signing of a player (or any other official claim on how they intend to manage said player), would you consider a player who has spent .0009% (yes, that’s an actual figure, not a joke) of his playing time over the past six years at a position other than his primary one? In this case, I don’t care if O’Dowd refers to him as the mot versatile player alive; I would never call this player versatile, for any reason. I find it hard to believe that you’d call Mora versatile either, if the official statements hadn’t been either.
My ultimate point is that they can say he’s versatile all they want, in terms of purely what can be measured, Stewart is the more versatile player, and so far as I see, the only reasonable objections are that they believe Mora will become more versatile (which I don’t believe will happen) or that shifting Stewart positions will be detrimental to him (which considering how rarely that is going to happen, I don’t believe will cause anything near a problem). Any other objection I can think of (such as “bench players should be the one to back up, regardless”) are unreasonable in my eyes.
by WolfMarauder on Feb 4, 2010 4:59 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't agree at all with a Stewart at second and Mora at third infield
Lets look at what we know going into the 2010 season about these two defensively.
1) Stewart plays awesome defense at third.
2) Stewart is not good at second but has played only 33 games there in his career and could improve.
3) Melvin Mora is medicre at best defensively at third. (Living around Red Sox and Yankee fans means that you get to see plenty of O’s games and from what i’ve watched, he’s nothing special at third)
4) Mora has played only 26 career games at second so we really don’t know how he will play there. (Although Rtot has him performing well there in a small sample size)
Given this information we know that
1) Stewart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Mora at third.
2) Stewart ?????Mora at second.
Knowing this I’d rather take the sure option of good defense at third with Stewart than throw that away and hope he’s that much better than Mora at second.
"Bob Gibson is the luckiest pitcher in baseball. He's always pitching when the other team doesn't score any runs." - Tim McCarver
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 4, 2010 6:09 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Geez, did you not even see our Mongol horde argument below?
by controlled_slide on Feb 4, 2010 6:13 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Not until after I posted it
"Bob Gibson is the luckiest pitcher in baseball. He's always pitching when the other team doesn't score any runs." - Tim McCarver
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 4, 2010 6:17 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I did
I just did it out of order :-)
"Bob Gibson is the luckiest pitcher in baseball. He's always pitching when the other team doesn't score any runs." - Tim McCarver
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 4, 2010 6:20 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think Stewart would be that much better than Mora at 3B.
We’ll see. Even if so, as long as Mora is “good enough” at 3B, I’d STILL take my infield. I’m simply the kind of person that prefers to have all his bases covered in one way or another over having one covered really well, and another not at all.
by WolfMarauder on Feb 4, 2010 6:20 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
But you don't know that second will be covered with Stewart there
Second is a crap shoot regardless of whether you put Mora (26 games) or Stew (33 games) there.
"Bob Gibson is the luckiest pitcher in baseball. He's always pitching when the other team doesn't score any runs." - Tim McCarver
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 4, 2010 6:23 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I get the sense that your impression of Stewart at 3B is too great, and Stewart at 2B is too negative.
It’s more somewhere in the middle. He’s worse at 2B, but he can handle it, and while he’s made some fantastic plays at 3B, he’s never been known throughout his career as one of true defensive skill.
by WolfMarauder on Feb 4, 2010 6:26 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
I always thought that he was highly touted for his defensive acumen. I remember when the Rockies played against the Mariners last year, the Ms announcers were going on about how good he was and how Adrian Beltre thought he was really good.
by controlled_slide on Feb 4, 2010 6:29 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Take a look at his minor league stats.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=stewar001ian
He’s never had a fielding percentage higher than .941
by WolfMarauder on Feb 4, 2010 6:36 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
While fielding percentage is a silly stat
That is a worrisome number of errors. Anyway, I had just thought that he was supposed to be an awesome player at third.
by controlled_slide on Feb 4, 2010 6:39 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
It's a silly stat to measure one's fielding talent objectively...
… but it can show trends of fielding skills, especially when it never peaks over a long period of time (or in the cases of some players, never drops).
Stewart has only recently learned how to be a prime defender.
by WolfMarauder on Feb 4, 2010 6:49 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
He's gotten better defensively at third
even in just the last year in the Majors.
"Bob Gibson is the luckiest pitcher in baseball. He's always pitching when the other team doesn't score any runs." - Tim McCarver
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 4, 2010 6:44 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, he most certainly has.
I’m clarifying that he doesn’t have a history of being a defensive player, not trying to say he’s not shown improvement. It could jut be an anomaly, though.
by WolfMarauder on Feb 4, 2010 6:48 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
You really shouldn't use fielding percentage to judge fielders in the majors
let alone the minors. He has exceptional range, and every scouting report had him as an above average to elite defensive 3B once he matured.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 4, 2010 7:38 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe I'm too high on Stewart at third
but even if he is just above average there he’s still better than Mora. As far as second goes, it’s not that I think Stewart will be terrible there, it’s that I think he won’t be better than what he gives you at third. But ultimately my point there is that you just don’t know and I’d rather not roll the dice.
"Bob Gibson is the luckiest pitcher in baseball. He's always pitching when the other team doesn't score any runs." - Tim McCarver
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 4, 2010 6:32 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you role the dice every time you throw a player out on the field, in some sense.
And what makes the game interesting is that it’s impossible to understand the effects that will cause them to land the way they are. I just think the best outcome would be that (minus Barmes, of course)
by WolfMarauder on Feb 4, 2010 6:35 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
There are certain things where you
can predict with confidence that one player has an advantage over another like Stewart does over Mora at third. I’d rather not mess with that.
I think we’ve reached the same point that you and C_S did earlier. (Only without going trough the Middle Ages)
BTW: I find it hilarious that we are arguing over who should play second when Barmes gets a day off once every three weeks. The offseason is not healthy.
"Bob Gibson is the luckiest pitcher in baseball. He's always pitching when the other team doesn't score any runs." - Tim McCarver
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 4, 2010 6:49 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Why is it not healthy?
I mean, I spend my days debating things far less important than this. My entire life is arguing opinions.
by WolfMarauder on Feb 4, 2010 6:50 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
It's not healthy because I'm sad their is no baseball
"Bob Gibson is the luckiest pitcher in baseball. He's always pitching when the other team doesn't score any runs." - Tim McCarver
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 4, 2010 6:51 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
what they should have done.
Not signed Giambi. Signed O-Hud or F-Lop. Hawpe spells Helton at first. Barmes becomes super util. Mora becomes somewhat redundant; have either EY or Q or some other guy making the minimum fill out the bench. We thus have two viable options at every position on the field. The money saved from Giambi and Mora not signing would mostly make up for the money spent on Hudson or Lopez. We would have been deeper defensively, and I doubt we would really have missed Giambi pinch hitting once every other day.
Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity
by squalene203 on Feb 4, 2010 5:23 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought this website hated the "first letter of first name + abbreviated last name" nicknames
Purple Row: Take this personally
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 4, 2010 8:32 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2010/2/3/1290600/o-hud-versus-f-lop
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 4, 2010 8:38 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
The other thing to consider for this case
Is whether Stewart’s defense at 3B + Mora’s defense at 2B > Stewart’s defense at 2B + Mora’s defense at 3B.
by controlled_slide on Feb 4, 2010 5:11 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
If Mora is awful everywhere, then I would indeed consider changing the position I advocate on that rationale.
But I do indeed believe Option B will be better than Option A. If that turns out to be false, I’ll obviously switch trains.
by WolfMarauder on Feb 4, 2010 5:13 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, my point was more that Stewart's defense is really good at third
So good that moving him to a position where’s he’s below average is shooting yourself in the foot.
by controlled_slide on Feb 4, 2010 5:14 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I got your point.
Remember, I don’t believe Stewart’s 2B defense is going to necessarily be below average.
There’s also room to consider that having a well rounded defense could be more important than having the highest total defense possible.
These numbers themselves are obviously meaningless, but let’s say Stewart is an 9 on defense at 3rd, and a 5 at 2B. Meanwhile, Mora is a 5 on 3B, but a 2 on 2B. Option A may have more “defense points”, but it has a much weaker alignment in the sense that one position will be covered brilliantly, and the other is an empty void.
by WolfMarauder on Feb 4, 2010 5:19 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I realize that you're making up numbers here
But, given normal batted ball distributions, wouldn’t you want to have the highest “number” out there as possible? I mean usually better numbers on defense leads to more runs prevented, and thus is a better option, regardless of whether you have a defensive void.
This, of course, doesn’t delve into the idea that second is a more valuable defensive position that third. But is we assume that our made up numbers incorporate that, I would say that having the highest defensive value is the best option, as it saves the most theoretical runs over a long period of time.
by controlled_slide on Feb 4, 2010 5:25 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
"But, given normal batted ball distributions, wouldn’t you want to have the highest "number" out there as possible?"
Not at all.
Let’s say (once again hypothetically) that all batted ball distribution ends up around even. Let’s say a 5 defender (Mora at 3B, Stewart at 2B in my example) is going to be league average. A 9 is a stellar, top of the line player, and a 2 is particularly poor. Would I consider an infield that contained one top of the line player and one poor player, whose value together ends up slightly better than two average players, to be inherently better than two average players? No, not necessarily.
An example: if you were building a wall to keep invaders out of your castle courtyard, would you build one segment of it out of the strongest metallic alloys available, only to then run out of resources and have build another out of cardboard? Or if you had the time and ability to produce an entire wall of serviceable concrete, would you take that option?
I suppose there’s a great degree of personal interpretation to this choice. Maybe the invaders only coming from one side, so you can sacrifice one side of the wall to build a super strong side strategically positioned, which would be analogous to positioning a great baseball defender in a position of great importance, even if it means putting Mr. Cardboard where you don’t expect the ball to go.
In certain situations, making that sacrifice may in fact be the best choice. But is it the obvious choice to go for “more strong total” over “more strong overall”. Ehhh…. not for me.
by WolfMarauder on Feb 4, 2010 5:38 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
But a baseball game is not a Mongol invasion
The team cannot intelligently choose where they fire their catapults (well, maybe a few players, but not many), but rather a team is bombarded from all sides by a deluge of arrows and, in some cases, livestock. You have a similar number of innocent peasants to protect behind every section of wall, and none of these peasants has more value than another (because you’re a feudal warlord and they merely faceless peons), so all you want to do is protect your serfs from certain death. If all of the peasants behind the futuristic metal wall will survive the assault, but only a couple will survive behind the cardboard wall, then that may well be the best option in terms of making sure that you have the most peasants possible to tend your fields after you destroy the barbarian hordes. Or San Francisco Giants. Whatever.
by controlled_slide on Feb 4, 2010 5:45 PM MST up reply actions 2 recs
I appreciate the turn this conversation has taken
and now I will go play a game of Empire: Total War. Excuse me
Attention Whore.
by Muzia on Feb 4, 2010 5:52 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I just want to say this is one hell of a metaphor
by phishbate on Feb 4, 2010 5:52 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Clearly ended up flawed, but I try.
lol
by WolfMarauder on Feb 4, 2010 6:08 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Um... what? Now I'm confused...
Did you just change arguments on me all of a sudden?
I AGREE that the wider range of protection is better, which is precisely why spreading out an average protection is better than putting up a super strong protection in one place is a worse option than putting up decent protection everywhere.
by WolfMarauder on Feb 4, 2010 5:54 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
What? No. What?
I said that the metal wall-cardboard wall combo might be the best if it results in more peasants saved.
by controlled_slide on Feb 4, 2010 5:59 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
“If all of the peasants behind the futuristic metal wall will survive the assault, but only a couple will survive behind the cardboard wall, then that may well be the best option in terms of making sure that you have the most peasants possible to tend your fields after you destroy the barbarian hordes.”
I guess this just doesn’t make logical sense to me. More people would be protected behind a comprehensive wall than would be behind half a strong wall…
I think both of us simply think that the opposite goal will better accomplish the same thing. It seems to ME that I’d rather protect my army with a large, adequate wall, which I assume would protect more people than would a castle with only half a wall, even if nobody behind that wall got hurt.
by WolfMarauder on Feb 4, 2010 6:00 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
More people would be protected behind a comprehensive wall than would be behind half a strong wall…
Depends on the percentages protected behind the adequate wall versus the percentages protected behind the strong wall plus behind the weak wall. Remember, this horde is unleashing hell upon the good people of yon Colorado Rockies castle via aerial assaults only; they aren’t going to overrun the castle through the weak wall and slay those behind the strong wall while they’re defenseless.
Let’s make more fake numbers. Let’s say that there are 100 people behind each section of wall. 90% survive behind the metal wall, while only 20% survive behind the cardboard wall. With the concrete wall, 50% survive. So, at the end of the invasion, with the metal wall you’ve got 110 peasants left, while with concrete walls you’ve only got 100 peasants. Or, going back to baseball, you’ve saved 110 runs with Stewart at third, but only 100 runs with Stewart at second.
I think we both get the others’ arguments here, we just disagree of the efficacy of each others’ method. But it was a really fun argument.
by controlled_slide on Feb 4, 2010 6:12 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah. Not sure how much more we can progress here.
by WolfMarauder on Feb 4, 2010 6:18 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
How about this?
WE CAN PUT BOTH STEWART AND MORA ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE INFIELD AND HAVE TULO COVER THE ENTIRE LEFT SIDE BECAUSE HE JUST THAT AWESOME.. WITH A TULO WALL 100% OF THE PEOPLE SURVIVE. :-)
"Bob Gibson is the luckiest pitcher in baseball. He's always pitching when the other team doesn't score any runs." - Tim McCarver
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 4, 2010 6:27 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
My eyes are glazed
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 4, 2010 7:47 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I made PF's eyes glaze?
I have failed.
by controlled_slide on Feb 4, 2010 10:32 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
How did Mongol horde get combined with..
Cardboard walls? I don’t remember Genghis defeating cardboard walls from my history lessons.
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by Charlie77 on Feb 5, 2010 1:37 AM MST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
ITR redesigned their homepage again.
Thank god. It was awful in its last incarnation.
by WolfMarauder on Feb 4, 2010 4:36 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Thy redid it this morning. I went to the home page, clicked on an article and went back and it had changed.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 4, 2010 4:40 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Castilla
Was IBB’d to load the bases for Mexico in the Caribbean World Series. He already singled and scored once.
Cuz is feared in this series!
Is it Opening Day yet??? See you at Coors.
by TripleT-Rox on Feb 4, 2010 3:09 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
who needs Mora?
amirite?
Attention Whore.
by Muzia on Feb 4, 2010 3:18 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Bring Back My Cousin Vinny!
Is it Opening Day yet??? See you at Coors.
by TripleT-Rox on Feb 4, 2010 3:25 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Me
"Bob Gibson is the luckiest pitcher in baseball. He's always pitching when the other team doesn't score any runs." - Tim McCarver
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 4, 2010 3:49 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
ME! That's pretty awesome.
This is R year!
by prettyinpurple on Feb 4, 2010 4:15 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Is it possible to get sick from lack of baseball? To die?
I’ve been sick three times this offseason, including real bad since Monday.
This is R year!
by prettyinpurple on Feb 4, 2010 4:24 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
that is awful...
hope you get better soon…
A hot dog at the ballgame beats roast beef at the Ritz. ~Humphrey Bogart
by Maria M on Feb 4, 2010 4:25 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
You're on to something.
There is a increase in cold & flu rates between November & March.
Coincidence? I think not.
by phishbate on Feb 4, 2010 4:27 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
lol
I think there is also a rise in depression and other mental illnesses. Clearly we should expand the mlb season for the betterment of America
Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too. ~Greg, age 8
"I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I would toss one that ain’t never been seen by this generation."
by arpagamos on Feb 4, 2010 4:31 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
ah, yes absolutely.
This is R year!
by prettyinpurple on Feb 4, 2010 4:33 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
get better soon prettyinpurple!
2009 Colorado Rockies - Historic turnaround to win NL WildCard
Brad Hawpe - Will prove the doubters wrong
Troy Tulowitzki - Best SS in the MLB - 2010 MVP
"With a guy like Melo, it’s tough to stop him with one person. You can’t. I don’t know one guy who can stop Melo on a consistent basis."-CP3
PS Let's win the NL West in 2010, shall we?
by SDcat09 on Feb 4, 2010 10:50 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
ODawg to Minny for $5M
per Olney
Purple Row: Take this personally
http://www.youtube.com/user/rockiesmagicnumber
Learn about Batting Metrics
Learn about Pitching Metrics
by Andrew Martin on Feb 4, 2010 4:55 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
http://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/status/8653575282
Purple Row: Take this personally
http://www.youtube.com/user/rockiesmagicnumber
Learn about Batting Metrics
Learn about Pitching Metrics
by Andrew Martin on Feb 4, 2010 4:57 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm still giggly that Hudson said he wanted $9 million.
Even as a posturing move, it was excessive.
by WolfMarauder on Feb 4, 2010 5:06 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
It's a good week for the Twins
Maybe that will make Viking fans feel a little better.
"Bob Gibson is the luckiest pitcher in baseball. He's always pitching when the other team doesn't score any runs." - Tim McCarver
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 4, 2010 6:16 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
For those of you in the Denver viewing area, "Bull Durham" is on Channel 20 tonight at 7:00 PM
IMO, one of the greatest baseball movies ever. And a sure fire warm up to ST.
My other pre-ST ritual is to read one of the greatest baseball books (IMO), “Ball Four”. That’s on next weeks to do list.
Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah, 1983
by pedalpusher on Feb 4, 2010 6:46 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
A film some of you may be interedted in:
by WolfMarauder on Feb 4, 2010 6:55 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I very much enjoyed that movie
I pictured Ubaldo in place of Sugar, you know, until their paths diverged.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 4, 2010 7:54 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I watched Sugar as well a couple of months ago and
loved it. I,too, thought of Ubaldo the whole time and like you said until they diverged.
2009 Colorado Rockies - Historic turnaround to win NL WildCard
Brad Hawpe - Will prove the doubters wrong
Troy Tulowitzki - Best SS in the MLB - 2010 MVP
"With a guy like Melo, it’s tough to stop him with one person. You can’t. I don’t know one guy who can stop Melo on a consistent basis."-CP3
PS Let's win the NL West in 2010, shall we?
by SDcat09 on Feb 4, 2010 10:49 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Weird plot turns..
Ruined that movie for me.
Donate to charity by shopping for Purple Row Merchandise at:
Purple Row Cares
by Charlie77 on Feb 5, 2010 1:39 AM MST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
wasnt that the point?
That the road to the big show isn’t consistently glorious and can be rather unexpected? That’s (some of) what I took from it
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 5, 2010 8:06 AM MST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
exactly!
Troy Tulowitzki - Best SS in the MLB - 2010 MVP
"With a guy like Melo, it’s tough to stop him with one person. You can’t. I don’t know one guy who can stop Melo on a consistent basis."-CP3
Brad Hawpe - Will prove the doubters wrong
PS Let's win the NL West in 2010, shall we?
by SDcat09 on Feb 5, 2010 5:09 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
::spoiler::
The pitcher jumps two levels in one season and then he walks away, huh?
Donate to charity by shopping for Purple Row Merchandise at:
Purple Row Cares
by Charlie77 on Feb 5, 2010 11:38 PM MST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
::spoiler:: It makes perfect sense to me
I was a star pitcher, shortstop and 3-hole hitter in middle school, but I switched schools for HS and was humbled to ride the bench, never rising higher than JV. I didn’t know how to take this drastic turn, and a fast food job offer was enough to quit my sophomore year.
Now consider that “Sugar” dealt with the same thing, just to a significantly greater degree on all fronts. He was a kid in a foreign country whose entire identity was wrapped up in being the best pitcher anyone knew. He had so much talent, but he had no idea how to deal with adversity. Thousands of miles away from home, with his only friend gone to New York, he couldn’t turn to anyone to help him. He couldn’t even admit to anyone back home that he was struggling. He spent so much time dreaming of being the best that when he realized he wasn’t, his only available reaction was to reject the truth and run. It was probably a bad decision given his talent (I can see a pitcher making that jump in Kansas City), but bad decisions are certainly realistic. I wouldn’t even be surprised if a pitcher has taken that exact career path.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 6, 2010 2:09 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I find it curious
that our resident film critic openly discusses films in depth frequently, yet has not shared his opinion about the lone baseball movie he himself brought up :)
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 6, 2010 2:12 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
How is Webb's comeback next season not more important than Kershaw's?
The Diamondbacks fell apart last season once Webb went down. Webb has been consistently dominant, Kershaw has had one good season. I just don’t see how Kershaw > Webb… Webb is much more important to his team than Kershaw IMO.
by GoRockies!! on Feb 5, 2010 12:07 AM MST reply actions 0 recs























