Monday Rockpile: The Season is so close, I can almost SMELL it.
Good morning, Rowbots and Rowbettes alike. We are 1 week away from the season opener in Milwaukee, I've brushed off my grill for Hot Dogs, I've gone and bought one of those big bags of peanuts, and it's just about time for me to prepare and print my yearly scorebook. And because it's Monday morning, prepare yourself for a thousand-word Rockpile. I should probably have fewer opinions on things.
Leading off this morning is Troy Renck at the Denver Post, praising the Rockies defensive play. That Dexter Fowler putout of Rajai Davis really impressed, apparently, because it's being mentioned quite often. Renck does acknowledge the shaky start for Ian Stewart and Clint Barmes, but goes to on praise Troy Tulowitzki and Todd Helton. He closes the article with a great quote from Ubaldo Jimenez:
"When you know that they are going to catch the ball, it helps you mentally. You know you don't have to be perfect ... If you can get a three-pitch inning, there's nothing wrong with that. We believe in our defense."
Tracy Ringolsby chimed in again yesterday morning to remind us that scouts are calling us the hands-down favorites in the NL West, citing our strong bench, the Dodgers' lack of pitching options (thanks to Joe Torre wearing down bullpen arms and the fact that they're resorting to Vicente Padilla as their opening day starter), the Giants' shaky defense, the Diamondbacks' lack of Brandon Webb and questions on the Jekyll-and-Hyde nature of Edwin Jackson, and...well, he doesn't have much more to say about the Padres than we do.
Additonally in the same article, Ringolsby also cites scouts in saying that Ian Stewart's improved plate aggressiveness has turned some heads, and that he's using the entire outfield now.
No spring would be complete without injury to a key player, however, and we've all been reviling the stiff shoulder of closer Huston Street. Tracy Ringolsby is reporting that Huston Street is shooting for a late-April return, and the Associated Press echoes this. Street is pretty frustrated by this, because he feels like they've tried just about everything. He tried resting it, that didn't work. He's working on a throwing program and that doesn't seem to be helping (but they're going to stick with it anyhow). The MRIs are negative, and apparently improving, but Street is a month out of locking down 9th innings again. Maybe they should try leeches. The AP tells us to look forward to Franklin Morales as the closer. I'm gonna go ahead and invest in Tums and Maalox, make a quick buck on the Colorado market.
Don't think you've gotten off that easily, click past the jump for more.
Rox Girl mentioned Chad Gaudin yesterday, and it made me kind of sad for the guy seeing how his agent "has called the Rockies looking for work, but team isn't interested." I mean, I'm glad that we have the pitching depth where Gaudin is unnecessary, but it just sounded so hopeless and despondent, it made me want to pat the guy on the back and say "don't worry buddy you'll land somewhere". Well, Gaudin reached an agreement with the Oakland Athletics yesterday, so I can feel a little less sad for the guy.
But speaking of feeling sad for pitchers, Tim Redding's blowup on mound yesterday probably not only cost him his job with the Rockies, but with another team as well. Ringolsby, in that same gem-laden article tells us that Seattle had a scout on hand for the game, and they weren't very impressed. He'll probably end up in AAA unless we just cut him. I don't mean to say that I don't want the guy to have a job, but if he's really as poor of an attitude and a teammate as all we've heard, I'd REALLY rather not have a sourpuss in Colorado Springs with Jhoulys Chacin, Esmil Rogers, and Sam Deduno. Like they say, AA is for players moving up, and AAA is for players coming down. Coming down probably carries its share of bitterness.
Again, with the news on NRI pitchers. Thomas Harding tells us about Justin Speier's outing on Sunday, and how it wasn't terribly impressive either. Granted, he got hurt by bad fielding (WHY IS EYJ IN CF WE HAVE 3 GUYS WHO CAN PLAY IT FAR BETTER AND BY THAT I MEAN COMPETENTLY), but decision makers for the team weren't pleased with the 2 hits and 2 walks allowed by Speier. The next best guy to make the team would be either Juan Rincon or Joe Beimel, and while I wouldn't want Rincon on the team, a not-ready Beimel might not be any better. Tracy is looking for a pitcher to pitch multiple innings in relief, and they've attempted to stretch Speier out a bit this spring, as Matt Belisle has reported forearm tightness at points and Rafael Betancourt probably won't be ready for multiple innings this early in the season. Manuel Corpas has been looked at for a multi-inning role as well. How the mighty have fallen. The good news is that Matt Daley owns and Randy Flores may not be completely awful.
Troy Renck brings us some news on Joe Beimel, confirming what we thought, that he's been throwing all winter. Did you realize that Matt Belisle hasn't allowed a run this spring?
Thomas Harding tells me all kinds of things I want to hear about Eric Young, Jr. Mostly because they confirm what I've already established as my stance. Excerpts:
In Sunday's game with the Athletics, Young knocked a slow roller into left field and hustled out a double in the second inning. In the sixth, he walked, stole second and stole third.
The Rockies have tried Young, a second baseman, at second, third, left field and center field this spring. The defensive results have been mixed, and he has struggled in the outfield ... In fairness, before rushing unnecessarily and dropping the fly ball in the seventh inning, Young made a couple of stellar plays on hard-hit balls at third base.
KEEP ERIC YOUNG OUT OF THE OUTFIELD JUST BECAUSE HE IS YOUTHFUL AND FAST DOES NOT MEAN HE IS AN OUTFIELDER WE HAVE 5 STARTING OUTFIELDERS ALREADY ARE YOU LISTENING JIM TELL ME ARE YOU LISTENING TO ME
One last gem that comes from out-of-town, the Arizona Daily Star profiles Troy Tulowitzki as an emerging leader for the Colorado Rockies. Citing good handling of pressure issues, defensiveness for teammates, and manager Jim Tracy's endorsement of the young man, Tulo should continue to lead this team to future glory. Nothing we didn't know, but between other news snippets and the last 2 Counting Rocks articles, it's good to hear that it's being recognized outside of the local beat.
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Needs more shouting.
"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address
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Jim Tracy can't hear him anyway
too busy running bunting drills for Dexter Fowler
Iron Maiden? Excellent!
I just received
a press release from the MLB Network for the games the channel will show in April. The Rockies @ Brewers, April 7 will on the Network that day. This will be the Rockies’ only appearance in the month of April.
I can post the full schedule if anyone wants it.
"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.
Rincon or Beimel?
If Beimel’s ready, it’s his spot.
If not, Rincon should get a shot.
I didn’t intent that to rhyme, it just came out that way.
For all the Rincon-bashers, remember Rox Girl’s well-researched off-season
posting (it was a slow day, deep in the off-season) that concluded, basically,
Rincon is better than most people think. That reduces my stress if he’s
on the Opening Day roster.
New decade, new result: time for a Rockies' division championship.
Anybody want a peanut?
Rincon? Inconceivable!
Tornadough! Tornadough! Tornadough!
by WalkInRight on Mar 29, 2010 10:32 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
if Rincon is on the team
He will the seventh guy. Essentially Josh fogg last season – remember how often we saw him? Even when he gets in a game, it will be difficult for him to actually impact the outcome of many games.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Mar 29, 2010 8:12 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
I still prefer Speier.
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by Greg Stanwood on Mar 29, 2010 8:25 AM MDT up reply actions
"better than most people think" doesn't necessarily mean he should be on the roster.
That said, it wouldn’t be the end of the world or anything.
"Because I am a Rockie." - Todd
Countdown 2010:
Opening Day @ Milwaukee | Home Opener vs San Diego
I'm rooting for Beimel.
This is R year!
by prettyinpurple on Mar 29, 2010 10:35 AM MDT up reply actions
I remember Rincon's 4 inning scoreless outing
If Beimel isn’t ready, I’m willing to give him a 2 week second chance to be the Josh Fogg of the staff.
Impossible not to have positive thoughts.
I want Sam Deduno to pitch already.
by bballrox4717 on Mar 29, 2010 10:57 AM MDT up reply actions
Anyone downtown for April 5?
After a couple of years with the radio on and the door closed only to be interrupted by the phone ringing, I decided this year to go ahead and take a half day.
"I clearly miscalculated how popular it would be to show Calvin urinating on a Ford logo"--Bill Watterson
by frightened inmate #2 on Mar 29, 2010 8:01 AM MDT reply actions
Yup,
can’t wait. My dad already has Fridays off, so it worked out great.
This is R year!
by prettyinpurple on Mar 29, 2010 10:36 AM MDT up reply actions
Oh, wait I was thinking opening day.
This is R year!
by prettyinpurple on Mar 29, 2010 10:45 AM MDT up reply actions
Same here. I'm taking it off anyways.
http://twitter.com/blakebomber
by BlakeBomber on Mar 29, 2010 11:20 AM MDT up reply actions
I'm debating it still.
I had to take a day and a half week before last for sickness, so I’m leery of taking another half day.
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by Andrew Martin on Mar 29, 2010 10:42 AM MDT up reply actions
planning fail.
The oxen are slow, but the earth is patient.
by rockieprogress on Mar 29, 2010 10:52 AM MDT up reply actions
tell that to the cold I had
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by Andrew Martin on Mar 29, 2010 11:04 AM MDT up reply actions
Er,sorry. Brain FAIL.
I will be in school Monday, unless I win that 850 KOA contest.
This is R year!
by prettyinpurple on Mar 29, 2010 10:46 AM MDT up reply actions
I wish, but no
I’ll be in school. I should have time off though, so I’ll probably drop by the student center for the game and a beer.
three things
Morales as a closer: I know everyone is freaking out, and expectations should be higher for a contending team. But this is a team whose best homegrown reliever in franchise history is Shawn Chacon. Morales has a better mlb track record with the Rockies than any recent rox closer other than Street and Fuentes. Morales is just as nerve-wracking as Fuentes but has better stuff. I seriously think we will be fine.
EY in center: no arguments on keeping him out of the OF. But he dropped a routine fly while standing still. That’s not an outfield error. Its a mental error – like when iannetta dropped the foul pop a couple weeks ago. I count this one as a knock on EYs defense overall, not just in center.
Matt Belisle: yes I know. see last Tuesday :)
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Mar 29, 2010 8:08 AM MDT via mobile reply actions
7 days, 3 hours, 45 minutes and 53 seconds
And bye bye Redding.
"Because I am a Rockie." - Todd
Countdown 2010:
Opening Day @ Milwaukee | Home Opener vs San Diego
Keith Law is one of the scouts who is high on Stewie...
He has Ian in his list of players who he thinks will have a breakout 2010 season. (Insider)
Just an average guy with exceptional hair. Nothing more, nothing less.
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by Bryan Kilpatrick on Mar 29, 2010 8:31 AM MDT reply actions
we are so trendy with espn this year
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Mar 29, 2010 8:36 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
I know
it kind of makes me nervous
"This is a great commitment for both the organization and me. Potentially it allows us to continue to put a championship caliber club on the field and allows me the opportunity to finish my career as a Colorado Rockie. Because I am a Rockie." -- Todd Helton
What says Kruk?
If Kruk picks someone else, I’ll feel fine.
"I clearly miscalculated how popular it would be to show Calvin urinating on a Ford logo"--Bill Watterson
by frightened inmate #2 on Mar 29, 2010 8:45 AM MDT up reply actions
Three months from now he'll
be all over the Braves and saying he was always for the Braves.
"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address
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Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.
I like the Braves this year as well
Planning on watching as much Heyward and Hanson as my eyes will allow
Iron Maiden? Excellent!
I'll probably end up watching them by default
assuming I can afford cable.
"This is a great commitment for both the organization and me. Potentially it allows us to continue to put a championship caliber club on the field and allows me the opportunity to finish my career as a Colorado Rockie. Because I am a Rockie." -- Todd Helton
Yeah but the Braves
Big woop
(for some reason I dislike them. Even before last year’s Krukmania).
"This is a great commitment for both the organization and me. Potentially it allows us to continue to put a championship caliber club on the field and allows me the opportunity to finish my career as a Colorado Rockie. Because I am a Rockie." -- Todd Helton
TBS overkill
and they kicked our ass consistently when we were a baby franchise.
I really like watching Hanson and am intrigued by Heyward’s promise.
I don’t emotionally like the team, but I am fascinated by their roster this year
Iron Maiden? Excellent!
I'm not even close to sold on the Braves
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by Andrew Martin on Mar 29, 2010 10:21 AM MDT up reply actions
Marquis Magic.
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by Greg Stanwood on Mar 29, 2010 9:18 AM MDT up reply actions
I'll state it here again.
I predict that Natinals will be the wild card because of Marquis Magic.
This means Rox win NL West, Cards NL Central, Phillies NL East.
Rox destroy the Nats in the division series, and sweep the winner of the Cards V Phillies
Troy Tulowitzki - Best SS in the MLB - 2010 MVP
Brad Hawpe - Will prove the doubters wrong
Todd Helton - Thanks +17
"I don’t know one guy who can stop Melo on a consistent basis."-Chris Paul
PS Let's win the NL West in 2010, shall we?
Kruk is still probably learning
that Jeff Francis isn’t our best pitcher, he seems to be a bit of slow learner as it’s taken him three years to learn we have a guy named Ubaldo who can light it up like Pedro did in Boston.
Clem Johnson? That skin bag wouldn't have lasted one pitch in the old Robot Leagues! Now Wireless Joe Jackson, there was a blern hitting machine!
Does Kruk know which Pedro ?
Troy Tulowitzki - Best SS in the MLB - 2010 MVP
Brad Hawpe - Will prove the doubters wrong
Todd Helton - Thanks +17
"I don’t know one guy who can stop Melo on a consistent basis."-Chris Paul
PS Let's win the NL West in 2010, shall we?
He thinks its Pedro Cerrano
Ubaldomania.
by The Lodo Magic Man on Mar 29, 2010 10:17 AM MDT up reply actions
I'd love to believe that I would
and relative to our franchise, yeah Ubaldo = Pedro, but man, Pedro Martinez might have had the most dominating season of ALL TIME.
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by Andrew Martin on Mar 29, 2010 10:22 AM MDT up reply actions
THT's
Five Questions on the Rockies. One of the answers involves the ascendancy of Troy Tulowitzki.
"Shall it be peace, or a sword?" - Excised line from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address
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Can this team make the playoffs WITHOUT a crazy second-half run?
Sure, they did it last year with a 21-7 June (note: June is in the FIRST half).
But the bullpen in Denver isn’t especially deep
I dunno. Justin Speier and Joe Beimel are definitely major league arms, and one won’t fit. It’s not like we have no internal options (Deduno, Chacin, Buchholz, Reynolds) knocking on the door either
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Mar 29, 2010 9:11 AM MDT up reply actions
He even mentioned June, that was a strange question.
And apparently he doesn’t know we at least have the 8th locked with Betancourt, Corpas won’t be sniffing those high leverage situations.
"Because I am a Rockie." - Todd
Countdown 2010:
Opening Day @ Milwaukee | Home Opener vs San Diego
Somehow I overlooked his omission of Betancourt.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Mar 29, 2010 9:16 AM MDT up reply actions
the question should have been
can the Rockies not completely dig themselves a giant hole in April and May for once?
Iron Maiden? Excellent!
Six against the Padres and eight against the Natinals in April/May should help.
/crosses fingers
"Because I am a Rockie." - Todd
Countdown 2010:
Opening Day @ Milwaukee | Home Opener vs San Diego
As long as we don't start giving away too many games late
I will admit to being scared that not having Huston in the ninth for the first month may prove to be a factor. I really hope it’s not.
"This is a great commitment for both the organization and me. Potentially it allows us to continue to put a championship caliber club on the field and allows me the opportunity to finish my career as a Colorado Rockie. Because I am a Rockie." -- Todd Helton
by Silverblood on Mar 29, 2010 10:20 AM MDT up reply actions
I mentioned it in a thread a while back,
but if we’re going to lose Street for a month, I’d rather it be against weak offensive opponents than strong ones. Teams with anemic offenses are less likely to put up a serious comeback attempt in the ninth. On the other hand, it felt like the blown saves in ’08 set the tone for the season.
Rollie Fingers...
That cracked me up.
Thank God that Redding is gone.
"Left hand, right hand, it doesn't matter. I'm amphibious." - Charles Shackleford
"He’s a stiff." - The Legendary Doug Moe
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
"I really didn't want it, but now that I've won it, it's nice. It's an honor. It's nice to know people don't think you're a total idiot. ... It must have been a poor year for coaches." - Doug Moe...talking about winning 1987-88 Coach of the Year award.
"Keep your head up and don't let anything get to you." - Dante Bichette Jr.
T minus 7 days until real baseball!
(and no, some revenge match or whatever against two obscure and unknown teams from two backwater towns doesn’t count as real baseball)
Saved by the buoyancy of citrus.
I'm not sure why Beimel can't be ready by the opener.
He has been pitching all winter, you don’t need to extend him at all. All he probably needs is a few outings to see live batters, and he will be good.
Sounds to me like he's ready
But the Rox will have to look elsewhere for the multiple innings guy
"Really, it couldn't be better." - Frank McCourt
Fogg is with the Mets.
"Because I am a Rockie." - Todd
Countdown 2010:
Opening Day @ Milwaukee | Home Opener vs San Diego
dont mess with the Johan
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Mar 29, 2010 10:34 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
no, Fogg was released by the Mets
so yes, he is available
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by Andrew Martin on Mar 29, 2010 10:32 AM MDT up reply actions
Oops, didn't know that.
Fogg is magic, we might need him.
"Because I am a Rockie." - Todd
Countdown 2010:
Opening Day @ Milwaukee | Home Opener vs San Diego
but the movie teaches us that dragons don't need to be slain
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by Andrew Martin on Mar 29, 2010 10:43 AM MDT up reply actions
Look
If there is ONE thing I have learned about life, it is to never trust a dragon, and to always keep a Fogg within reach.
what about Elliott?
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by Andrew Martin on Mar 29, 2010 11:04 AM MDT up reply actions
but he was a friendly dragon
just ask pete
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by Andrew Martin on Mar 29, 2010 11:08 AM MDT up reply actions
no that's Puff the magic dragon
wrong movie
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by Andrew Martin on Mar 29, 2010 11:12 AM MDT up reply actions
come on he lit the lighthouse for the the town of Passamaquoddy
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by Andrew Martin on Mar 29, 2010 11:37 AM MDT up reply actions
I always thought that was puff the magic dragon
my childhood has been markedly changed
Iron Maiden? Excellent!
/shakes head
oh Muzia
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by Andrew Martin on Mar 29, 2010 11:44 AM MDT up reply actions
I'm an idiot :(
but doesn’t it make more sense why those goofballs are “chasing the dragon” if he was made of marijuana?
Iron Maiden? Excellent!
I thought chasing the dragon was opium fiending
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by Andrew Martin on Mar 29, 2010 11:52 AM MDT up reply actions
I'm not sure why
Morales is moving to the closer role, Beimal is replacing his spot in the pen. Morales was never slated to be a long reliever. So, why do we suddenly need one?
They were looking at Speier and Redding as multiple innings guys
If Beimel gets that last spot, that role goes to someone else
"Really, it couldn't be better." - Frank McCourt
i dont think we "suddenly" need one
Belisle could have been that guy, but he looks more deserving of late inning duty. With Redding undeserving, we don’t have any candidates that are stretched out.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Mar 29, 2010 10:36 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
In case of emergency
Greg Smith?
"Because I am a Rockie." - Todd
Countdown 2010:
Opening Day @ Milwaukee | Home Opener vs San Diego
except I think the FO would rather keep him starting in the Springs, just in case of injury
Iron Maiden? Excellent!
Yeah, probably better to have him ready to hop in the rotation at short notice
"Because I am a Rockie." - Todd
Countdown 2010:
Opening Day @ Milwaukee | Home Opener vs San Diego
Smith? In the Pen?
I would prefer to keep him as a starter so we don’t need to screw with him, and if we need another starter early.
I agree with you completely
but irrationally speaking, I have the beginnings of a crush on Greg and would like to see him on the big club.
Iron Maiden? Excellent!
But your talking about the last long relief spot in the pen
If you do see him, it’s because we are being destroyed by a team.
Tracy's said that Smith will be a starter
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by Andrew Martin on Mar 29, 2010 10:43 AM MDT up reply actions
The last week without baseball! The end is near!
I gotta get my laundry done this week….
This is R year!
by prettyinpurple on Mar 29, 2010 10:39 AM MDT reply actions
hmmm
well, that’ s one way to make sure no one gets in your space at a game in October…:)
Tornadough! Tornadough! Tornadough!
by WalkInRight on Mar 29, 2010 10:46 AM MDT up reply actions
I never wash my jersey during the season.
Well, I did once. See: 2008
it’s the only stupidstition I have
Iron Maiden? Excellent!
Let's see- I never wash jersey in season, also,
and I don’t wear the color of the other team while we’re playing them.
I will forever regret letting my mom make us watch Fever Pitch during the Series and me carrying a red purse for game 1.
This is R year!
by prettyinpurple on Mar 29, 2010 10:54 AM MDT up reply actions
also, when I go to the ballpark
I try and eat a food related to the team we are playing. Arizona tea, Philly cheesesteak, Boston baked beans.
If I consume it, I help our team consume the opposition.
Iron Maiden? Excellent!
Milwaukee beer
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by Andrew Martin on Mar 29, 2010 11:05 AM MDT up reply actions
St Louis? Anheuser Busch products
quick someone help me find more ways to make the answer “beer”
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by Andrew Martin on Mar 29, 2010 11:08 AM MDT up reply actions
Boston Lager?
"Because I am a Rockie." - Todd
Countdown 2010:
Opening Day @ Milwaukee | Home Opener vs San Diego
that's not Florida enough for my game though
it has to be representative of the opponent’s home town
Iron Maiden? Excellent!
I still haven't found another suitable option for the Fish
besides, well, fish.
Iron Maiden? Excellent!
well um you're not welcome in the nursing home anymore
/jokes in bad taste
"This is a great commitment for both the organization and me. Potentially it allows us to continue to put a championship caliber club on the field and allows me the opportunity to finish my career as a Colorado Rockie. Because I am a Rockie." -- Todd Helton
by Silverblood on Mar 29, 2010 12:31 PM MDT up reply actions
It's only bad taste if you don't salt them first.
"Because I am a Rockie." - Todd
Countdown 2010:
Opening Day @ Milwaukee | Home Opener vs San Diego
yeah well they're old
they’re tough and stringy
"This is a great commitment for both the organization and me. Potentially it allows us to continue to put a championship caliber club on the field and allows me the opportunity to finish my career as a Colorado Rockie. Because I am a Rockie." -- Todd Helton
by Silverblood on Mar 29, 2010 12:38 PM MDT up reply actions
Aurora Beer
Try Dry Dock in Aurora. Great beer.
The oxen are slow, but the earth is patient.
by rockieprogress on Mar 29, 2010 11:28 AM MDT up reply actions
Wait you're eating angry Albanian cab drivers?
This sounds like the setup for a cheap slasher.
"This is a great commitment for both the organization and me. Potentially it allows us to continue to put a championship caliber club on the field and allows me the opportunity to finish my career as a Colorado Rockie. Because I am a Rockie." -- Todd Helton
by Silverblood on Mar 29, 2010 11:11 AM MDT up reply actions
Oh god what have I unleashed
"This is a great commitment for both the organization and me. Potentially it allows us to continue to put a championship caliber club on the field and allows me the opportunity to finish my career as a Colorado Rockie. Because I am a Rockie." -- Todd Helton
by Silverblood on Mar 29, 2010 11:12 AM MDT up reply actions
it could be like Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer
with pieces from the French Connection
Iron Maiden? Excellent!
and a nice Chianti
"This is a great commitment for both the organization and me. Potentially it allows us to continue to put a championship caliber club on the field and allows me the opportunity to finish my career as a Colorado Rockie. Because I am a Rockie." -- Todd Helton
by Silverblood on Mar 29, 2010 11:14 AM MDT up reply actions
On a bun
Or in a taco. BTW, don’t tell anyone, but tacobell will soon replace the shrimp taco with angry Albanian cab triver taco.
It seems like tacos would be applicable to most teams.
If you eat them in a taco, that’s like helping the Rockies get to tacos.
How bout NY style pizza.
Much tastier.
This is R year!
by prettyinpurple on Mar 29, 2010 11:15 AM MDT up reply actions
I've been in many angry albanian taxis
And we usually ended up driving on the wrong side of the road, in a vehicle without seat belts. Because of this I still look both ways when walking across a one way street.
and I don’t wear the color of the other team while we’re playing them.
Absolutely. I was a bit puzzled by the number of rox fans wearing the free July 4th (red white blue) hats at the two Phillies playoffs games last year. Hello?
Tornadough! Tornadough! Tornadough!
by WalkInRight on Mar 29, 2010 11:48 AM MDT up reply actions
uhh, playoff
premature posting fail
Tornadough! Tornadough! Tornadough!
by WalkInRight on Mar 29, 2010 11:50 AM MDT up reply actions
Well, yes for my Tulo jersey and my Rockies blankie.
That’s it though.
This is R year!
by prettyinpurple on Mar 29, 2010 10:44 AM MDT up reply actions
The quote by Jimenez
is why I think FIP is a stupid stat.
The oxen are slow, but the earth is patient.
by rockieprogress on Mar 29, 2010 10:58 AM MDT reply actions
So you see no reason in attempting to quantify a pitcher's value
independent of the defense behind him?
"Because I am a Rockie." - Todd
Countdown 2010:
Opening Day @ Milwaukee | Home Opener vs San Diego
I don't terribly.
The defense will always be behind him.
"I clearly miscalculated how popular it would be to show Calvin urinating on a Ford logo"--Bill Watterson
by frightened inmate #2 on Mar 29, 2010 11:05 AM MDT up reply actions
Until he signs with another team, or the roster changes.
"Because I am a Rockie." - Todd
Countdown 2010:
Opening Day @ Milwaukee | Home Opener vs San Diego
But then a part of his effectiveness
will be tied to that teams defense.
"I clearly miscalculated how popular it would be to show Calvin urinating on a Ford logo"--Bill Watterson
by frightened inmate #2 on Mar 29, 2010 11:08 AM MDT up reply actions
sure, effectiveness
but what does that say to his skill?
Pitching to your defense is obviously something taken into consideration, but the idea is that the defense can’t be helped by the pitcher.
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by Andrew Martin on Mar 29, 2010 11:09 AM MDT up reply actions
ok lemme rephrase
if Yuniesky betancourt dives for and misses a groundball single with 2 outs that most other competent shortstops have standing up and 2 runs score, how is that Gil Meche’s fault? He shouldn’t be credited for the defensive abilities of Alex Gordron, Yuniesky Betancourt, Chris Getz, and Mike Jacobs.
Full credit to pitchers who get the ground balls, etc, but actually converting the outs isn’t their job (with limited exceptions, obv, like covering 1B or whatever).
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by Andrew Martin on Mar 29, 2010 11:17 AM MDT up reply actions
or in other words "I can't help it if my defense rules/sucks"
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by Andrew Martin on Mar 29, 2010 11:17 AM MDT up reply actions
I think the point is, there are already stats that measure a pitcher taking defense into account
having some that value independently can be extremely useful to measure the “true” skill of a pitcher. You can also compare the two stats and measure how much a pitcher relies on that defense. I don’t think anyone is arguing to use FIP and only FIP and ignore other stats.
"Because I am a Rockie." - Todd
Countdown 2010:
Opening Day @ Milwaukee | Home Opener vs San Diego
But how much value do you put on the "true" skill of a pitcher?
Because he will never pitch in a vacuum.
"I clearly miscalculated how popular it would be to show Calvin urinating on a Ford logo"--Bill Watterson
by frightened inmate #2 on Mar 29, 2010 11:17 AM MDT up reply actions
If you want to compare two pitchers,
one in front of the best defense and another in front of the worst defense it helps if you can quantify independent of that defense.
"Because I am a Rockie." - Todd
Countdown 2010:
Opening Day @ Milwaukee | Home Opener vs San Diego
Not really
If SP1 is a FB pitcher and he plays on a team that has a poor OF, that is taken into consideration by the team that would be trying to trade for him.
If SP2 has been playing on that team, and was traded for SP1, and SP2 was a sinkerball pitcher, that OF had little impact on his ability to generate outs.
You can not say that Cook is a lesser pitcher than another pitcher that pitches to get a high K rate. He isn’t that type of pitcher, but he does generate a lot of outs via GB’s. FIB unfairly qualifies the K type pitcher over the GB/FB pitchers.
Is there anyone out there that believes the Rockies would’ve lost game 5 last year in the NLDS? That’s why the Street blowup is such a big deal. Most people that aren’t revisionists know that Cook would’ve shut the Phillies down.
But, and its a BIG BUT, FIP rates Cook low because he’s not a K type pitcher.
The oxen are slow, but the earth is patient.
by rockieprogress on Mar 29, 2010 11:39 AM MDT up reply actions
I'm not a FIP fan
but can see its (limited) value, and certainly I see why SABR types love it. My question is, what is the % of total ABs that, on average, actually factor into FIP? I assume the overwhelming majority of ABs result in a ball in play. This, in addition to the above comments, suggest that FIP is far more limited than many are willing to grant.
hence, tRA
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by Andrew Martin on Mar 29, 2010 11:38 AM MDT up reply actions
so far
my (admittedly slow) SABR education has managed to avoid any stats with both big and small letters in the acronyms. No excuse, I know, but I’m “old school” at heard and baby steps and all…
I agree with
what Teekalong said about “little letters”^
The oxen are slow, but the earth is patient.
by rockieprogress on Mar 29, 2010 11:41 AM MDT up reply actions
hahaha
did you happen to read the article I put together on tRA? It’s basically a report card on a pitcher’s outing that goes past the box score.
Like, historically, 92% (or whatever) of groundballs have been turned into outs, so a groundball is worth .92 outs. Similarly, singles are worth so many runs, and then you add up the number of runs and number of outs and calculate a new ERA based on that.
Again, neither ERA nor FIP nor tRA tell the entire story. There’s more to it, we’re just trying to paste the pieces of the puzzle in to try and get a more complete picture.
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by Andrew Martin on Mar 29, 2010 11:43 AM MDT up reply actions
I hadn't read your tRA article before, but I'm about to.
I’ve read the pitching primer though. Are tRA and tERA the same thing? Also, it seems to me that tRA and wOBA are somewhat similar. Is that true?
tRA and tERA are sort of the same thing
because Earned Runs and Unearned Runs are so circumstantially based, they basically just take the total number of R and ER and find a ratio (usually about 0.92 ER per R), so tRA*.92=tERA.
Also you’re dead on with the tRA=wOBA connection. Linear Weights own.
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by Andrew Martin on Mar 29, 2010 11:53 AM MDT up reply actions
again, a good indicator of whether a performance is a fluke or whatever
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by Andrew Martin on Mar 29, 2010 12:02 PM MDT up reply actions
I'm sure I did
and I probably honestly tried to digest it, but no luck so far. This kind of stuff has to sink in to me due to repetition. Someday. I’ve made great strides, nonetheless. I wasn’t quite in Redhawk territory when I found this site, but close.
at least you're trying!
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by Andrew Martin on Mar 29, 2010 12:36 PM MDT up reply actions
why?
If a pitcher gets bailed out by his defense, it means he wasn’t pitching well and was bailed out by his defense. How do you credit a pitcher for not being good and not credit his fielders for said bailout?
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by Andrew Martin on Mar 29, 2010 11:05 AM MDT up reply actions
GB%?
:)
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with tRA silly
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by Andrew Martin on Mar 29, 2010 11:07 AM MDT up reply actions
Even a pitcher with 9 K/9IP gets two thirds of his outs from the defense.
You can’t say that a non-strikeout is a pitcher failure. I agree that defense independent stats can be useful, but they’re not the whole story.
I don't think I ever DID say that a nonstrikeout is a pitcher failure
but a pitcher who relies less on his defense is more valuable than one who does.
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by Andrew Martin on Mar 29, 2010 11:10 AM MDT up reply actions
I'm missing where anyone says defense independent stats are the only way to measure a pitcher.
"Because I am a Rockie." - Todd
Countdown 2010:
Opening Day @ Milwaukee | Home Opener vs San Diego
Maybe I interpreted it wrong.
I was looking at RMN’s post where he mentioned a pitcher getting bailed out by his defense. I think that happens sometimes, but most of the outs that are made in the field are not of the spectacular/robbed of a hit variety. Usually, they are routine grounders or fly balls. The number of balls in play that result in lucky hits or unlucky outs (from an offensive perspective) are in the minority.
I’m not saying that FIP, or any of the others, are useless. I think they portray an important aspect of the pitcher’s skillset. But I also think that good pitchers produce weakly hit baseballs, which turn into outs. As I see it, they don’t get credit for that ability under the defense independent stats.
I heard something the other day on the KOA broadcast that made me think about this topic. Someone from the other team hit a ground ball between the 1B and 2B for a hit, but Jack and Jerry said that it was a “seeing eye grounder” and bounced six or seven times. I often have a hard time telling the difference between one of these and a hard hit grounder through the hole. Does the number of bounces always indicate how hard it was struck? It seems like hit f/X data would be useful in evaluating both pitchers and fielders. If a pitcher produces contact with low velocity and angles towards the ground, it seems that he is successful regardless of the outcome.
I have a question about something you said above: what is meant by “true” talent? I’ve seen this before, but I don’t understand what it implies.
I just mean "true" as in skill not determined by the slugs kicking balls behind the pitcher.
Very good point about the quality of the batted balls, pitching stats are still very very far from perfect, like defensive stats. I’d rather have a stat that gives half the picture than just ERA though.
What sparked this discussion was:
FIP is a stupid stat.
I was just trying to make a case for it’s use. It certainly isn’t the final say.
"Because I am a Rockie." - Todd
Countdown 2010:
Opening Day @ Milwaukee | Home Opener vs San Diego
Agreed.
BTW, do you prefer FIP or one of the others? I usually look at FIP because I can’t keep the others straight, but it seems like some of them are a little more complex and perhaps valuable.
I typically look at xFIP & tERA on fangraphs, you can usually get a lot of info between those two.
"Because I am a Rockie." - Todd
Countdown 2010:
Opening Day @ Milwaukee | Home Opener vs San Diego
Its cool that the national media is noticing our bench...
but I think that our bullpen maybe just as deep…when we are talking about a guy like Manny Corpas being relegated to a long reliever? I realize he struggled since ‘07, but the guy was a closer on a WS team who couldn’t afford to lose down the stretch. Matt Belisle has pretty good stuff and if Morales can pull a De La Rosa and get some confidence, this bullpen will be unbelievable
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About Corpas
well, you kinda said it:
“I realize he struggled since ’07”
Baseball’s an unforgiving mistress. Two seasons ago? Heck, it could be ten years.
"This is a great commitment for both the organization and me. Potentially it allows us to continue to put a championship caliber club on the field and allows me the opportunity to finish my career as a Colorado Rockie. Because I am a Rockie." -- Todd Helton
by Silverblood on Mar 29, 2010 11:16 AM MDT up reply actions
My case for Corpas...
1. ’08 he was managed by Clint Hurdle…who never stuck with a guy in a position as far as the bullpen was concerned, so being still young, he had Brian Fuentes breathing down his neck and Hurdle ready to pull the plug.
2. ’09 was an injury plagued year…as far as I am concerned, it gets thrown out.
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by Sandlotkid8 on Mar 29, 2010 11:19 AM MDT up reply actions
Um, Corpas really didn't do anything to solidify his spot as the closer in 08
I would have made the change aas well.
Right...I agree..
but maybe the results would have been better if someone other than Hurdle was making the calls. If someone like Jim Tracy would have instilled some confidence in him.
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by Sandlotkid8 on Mar 29, 2010 11:22 AM MDT up reply actions
well, possibly
but he DID show up out of shape and was coasting post-contract a bit.
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by Andrew Martin on Mar 29, 2010 11:39 AM MDT up reply actions
I agree...
He didn’t help himself…but I think he still has the talent.
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by Sandlotkid8 on Mar 29, 2010 11:42 AM MDT up reply actions
I don't doubt it
maybe he should get a hypnotist or something
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by Andrew Martin on Mar 29, 2010 11:43 AM MDT up reply actions
like I said
everyone wants Awesome!Manny to come back. We’d just like to see some chance that he will.
"This is a great commitment for both the organization and me. Potentially it allows us to continue to put a championship caliber club on the field and allows me the opportunity to finish my career as a Colorado Rockie. Because I am a Rockie." -- Todd Helton
by Silverblood on Mar 29, 2010 11:43 AM MDT up reply actions
I don't think anyone is
saying that he doesn’t have the talent. He showed us all that in 2007. It’s a matter of realizing that talent, and he hasn’t shown that he can do that consistently. Maybe he’s turned a corner this year. Time will tell.
Hating Cubs fans since 1908
how much of 2007 was talent and how much was good luck on grounders etc
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by Andrew Martin on Mar 29, 2010 11:45 AM MDT up reply actions
WELL GEE
THERE MUST BE A STAT FOR THIS
FIND IT BY GOLLY
:-P
"This is a great commitment for both the organization and me. Potentially it allows us to continue to put a championship caliber club on the field and allows me the opportunity to finish my career as a Colorado Rockie. Because I am a Rockie." -- Todd Helton
by Silverblood on Mar 29, 2010 11:47 AM MDT up reply actions
my bad for reasearchin'
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by Andrew Martin on Mar 29, 2010 11:54 AM MDT up reply actions
Well if you ever do come up with that stat
you’ll make a pile of money on it.
"This is a great commitment for both the organization and me. Potentially it allows us to continue to put a championship caliber club on the field and allows me the opportunity to finish my career as a Colorado Rockie. Because I am a Rockie." -- Todd Helton
by Silverblood on Mar 29, 2010 11:55 AM MDT up reply actions
he had a high LOB%, a low BABIP
which are prime for a low ERA
What’s interesting is that his GB% in 2007 was pretty in line with his minor league numbers, and his 2007 K/9 actually dropped from 2006.
I’m not saying he wasn’t good, just not Mariano good like his ERA would suggest.
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by Andrew Martin on Mar 29, 2010 11:58 AM MDT up reply actions
Yeah. But whatever it was, he WAS awesome
That’s where that flighty temptress “luck” comes in. Whatever it was — lucky underoos, Wheaties, four-leaf clovers, etc etc — we need to get Manny a big supply.
"This is a great commitment for both the organization and me. Potentially it allows us to continue to put a championship caliber club on the field and allows me the opportunity to finish my career as a Colorado Rockie. Because I am a Rockie." -- Todd Helton
by Silverblood on Mar 29, 2010 12:02 PM MDT up reply actions
if that's what it takes, go for it
I’m not AGAINST a corpas comeback, I just don’t think it’s happening. If he re-finds it and we suddenly have a 4 headed beast in July comprised of Street, Betancourt, Corpas, and Buchholz, I might wet myself
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by Andrew Martin on Mar 29, 2010 12:04 PM MDT up reply actions
Well yeah that's exactly what I've been saying
we all WANT Awesome!Manny, the same way we want a pony. We’re just skeptical.
"This is a great commitment for both the organization and me. Potentially it allows us to continue to put a championship caliber club on the field and allows me the opportunity to finish my career as a Colorado Rockie. Because I am a Rockie." -- Todd Helton
by Silverblood on Mar 29, 2010 12:05 PM MDT up reply actions
it's an interesting study for a numbers guy
and a head-beating-on-the-wall study for a not-numbers person
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by Andrew Martin on Mar 29, 2010 12:06 PM MDT up reply actions
I don't know...
but I am of the mindset that a guy doesn’t hit 30 home runs based on luck…I also believe that a guy doesn’t blow one save during the whole second half of a season when his success was crucial based on luck.
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by Sandlotkid8 on Mar 29, 2010 11:50 AM MDT up reply actions
Oh for sure, luck won't turn Tim Redding into Mariano Rivera
There’s still that saying about turds and polishing, after all.
Whatever Manny was doing in 07, it legitimately worked. Now we just have to find if it will ever do so again.
"This is a great commitment for both the organization and me. Potentially it allows us to continue to put a championship caliber club on the field and allows me the opportunity to finish my career as a Colorado Rockie. Because I am a Rockie." -- Todd Helton
by Silverblood on Mar 29, 2010 11:52 AM MDT up reply actions
True, but how many guys hit 30 one season and then never crack 20 again?
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by Andrew Martin on Mar 29, 2010 11:55 AM MDT up reply actions
Lots of guys...
hit 30 and never sniff 20 again…but I would say that is the minority…and I would also tie the steroid era into it for certain guys. (Brady Anderson comes to mind)
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by Sandlotkid8 on Mar 29, 2010 12:37 PM MDT up reply actions
NO
HE WAS CHEATING REMEMBERZ?!!
/rolls eyes
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by WalkInRight on Mar 29, 2010 11:52 AM MDT up reply actions
I think the reason that theory has acquired any credence
(admittedly, among myself at times) is because we were scrambling to figure out just why he dropped off a cliff. Injury? Laziness? New contract smugness? Greasing the ball seemed as likely as anything.
"This is a great commitment for both the organization and me. Potentially it allows us to continue to put a championship caliber club on the field and allows me the opportunity to finish my career as a Colorado Rockie. Because I am a Rockie." -- Todd Helton
by Silverblood on Mar 29, 2010 11:54 AM MDT up reply actions
Greasing the ball seemed as likely as anything.
I prefer using that catchall term ‘crafty.’ :)
Tornadough! Tornadough! Tornadough!
by WalkInRight on Mar 29, 2010 12:01 PM MDT up reply actions
Well hell
you didn’t think Jamie Moyer was surviving until age 500 with ONLY his wily veterany 50-mph stuff? *
* disclaimer: I have no idea how Jamie Moyer does what Jamie Moyer does
"This is a great commitment for both the organization and me. Potentially it allows us to continue to put a championship caliber club on the field and allows me the opportunity to finish my career as a Colorado Rockie. Because I am a Rockie." -- Todd Helton
by Silverblood on Mar 29, 2010 12:05 PM MDT up reply actions
OK, it's a combination of:
- Pinpoint Control
- …..
- uh
- There’s something else here
- oh yeah throws strikes
- …
- also crafty
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by Andrew Martin on Mar 29, 2010 12:07 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
DAMMIT
I knew I was missing something
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by Andrew Martin on Mar 29, 2010 12:08 PM MDT up reply actions
I still wish we had video from deadball era games
I would love to see the movement on an emoryball or a spitball
Iron Maiden? Excellent!
Don't get me wrong
Having Awesome!Manny would be, well, awesome (God, he was so good in 07). But I still want to see that it’s possible, let alone probable, before loading anything crucial onto it. And I don’t think he helped himself very much. Basically, he got fat and lazy and lost his slider. Relocation progress still underway. Results uncertain.
"This is a great commitment for both the organization and me. Potentially it allows us to continue to put a championship caliber club on the field and allows me the opportunity to finish my career as a Colorado Rockie. Because I am a Rockie." -- Todd Helton
by Silverblood on Mar 29, 2010 11:20 AM MDT up reply actions
I'm not saying that he should be closing...
but having a guy with that experience coming in in the sixth inning isn’t a bad thing.
I agree on the work ethic side of things…but the point still stands.
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by Sandlotkid8 on Mar 29, 2010 11:24 AM MDT up reply actions
Short leash indeed. Deal.
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by Sandlotkid8 on Mar 29, 2010 11:26 AM MDT up reply actions
he's only had one bad outing this spring, correct?
Corpas has actually pitched decently so far
Iron Maiden? Excellent!
-cough-springstats-cough-
I’m still semi-bullish about Corpas, but with his salary and struggles what else can you really do except give him another shot. This is probably his last chance to prove 2007 was not a fluke though.
"Because I am a Rockie." - Todd
Countdown 2010:
Opening Day @ Milwaukee | Home Opener vs San Diego
Spring Stats indeed...
however, that is all we have to go off of…if we through spring stats out the window for Corpas, we have to for Belisle as well, who pretty much nailed down a late inning spot.
Although I think Corpas’ spring numbers haven’t been great. I think he gave up a few home runs early on.
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by Sandlotkid8 on Mar 29, 2010 11:35 AM MDT up reply actions
Apparently, the Yankees win because
Derek Jeter knows how to win. I wonder what stat you would look at to measure “knowledge of how to win”? Perhaps team payroll.
Anyway, I also wanted to mention the organizational rankings on Fangraphs. To my knowledge, the Rockies have not been analyzed in the bottom 22 spots. What place do you think they will receive? I’m guessing somewhere around 5 or 6.
Hmmm.
Well, I would bet Yankees, Red Sox, and Phillies will definitely be above the Rockies. Possibly one or two others. So, yeah, I would say around 5 seems likely.
Actually, the Phillies are going to be #9.
They’ve got the “Current talent” section on them up now. I’d guess that the Rays are probably ahead of the Rockies based on future talent, while the Red Sox and Yankees probably have more current talent. I’d guess that the Braves are in there too, but other than that, I can’t think of any other teams that can beat the Rockies based on what is currently in the majors and what’s in the pipeline.
Wait. The season starts on Sunday?!
Oh lord.
Someone get me out of this semester before it turns me into a blathering vegetable.
OT: I have been told that I find out “early this week” if I get into the year long Columbia program in Paris. I consider Monday to be “early this week”. So give me the decision already…!!! (I should not get my hopes up about Columbia bureaucracy. Early this week could mean anytime before Friday…)
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