The smartest thing a Phillies fan has ever said

I like bobbida yanga stat myself. :P

and I think that’s great. I think there is the occasional comment that can get a bit condescending (and one typical offender in that regard who’s not you). I tend to treat that the way I do most things I’m not into – hit Z. ;-) Does that make me a Generation Z… um… non-stat-nerd?

That’s why I like this site. There doesn’t seem to be a SABR vs. non-SABR war here. I’m learning a bit as I go about how the “new” stats are used when I come here, and I’ve always seen it as being done in a manner as to say, “I understand the ‘old’ way. Now I’m trying to help you understand the ‘new’ way, whether you get into it or not.”

I’m new to all the stats and find the number of TLAs overwhelming. But I love the Counting Rocks articles – you explain the stats, how they’re used, what their strengths and weaknesses are, how they relate to other things that we see. It will take me a while before I can remember which one is which in the middle of a discussion of who should bat where in the order, or who should be starting, or how amazing Ubaldo is. But this is a place where I can learn about them.

In my mind, I’m referring to a specific Simmons post that was linked here that I can’t find in the archives. It was posted here because Simmons linked to a post that Jeff Aberle wrote.

I like Simmons, and that particular entry didn’t rub me the wrong way at all. He said something like, “If you’re not into it, you’re lazy, and here’s my fantasy baseball strategy that will show you why. Without these, you won’t win.” It mostly just gave me this smug feeling of satisfaction knowing that I had done it without the aid of the newer metrics.

And this was initially going to be a response to wtnelson, but it works better here. As a SABR nerd, I have absolutely no problem with average fans who couldn’t care less about advanced metrics. Some people have a statistical mind, some don’t. And even some who do (like Casbah) don’t care to look at baseball that way. Whatever. I love looking at the statistical side of baseball, but I’m not going to be arrogant enough to say it’s the only way to enjoy it. Baseball is entertainment, let it entertain you in whatever way it entertains you most.

The people with whom I do take issue with not at least having a cursory understanding of advanced principles is the writers and management. This is their job, and they should be able to understand why Chase Utley is a better player than Ryan Howard even though Howard has more home runs and RBI.

So: Belligerent Phillies fan – I don’t care if you don’t know exactly why Ryan Howard is a good player. Although I do care that you’re using boring, stale arguments to try to make your point. Maybe try to actually understand the other side before you say stuff like this?

I think your last paragraph is a point that is largely missed in this whole “debate”, such as it is. The depth to which one chooses to go does not change his “level of fandom” at all.

For the record, I understand many of the more mainstream uses of sabermetrics (WAR, OPS, BABIP, FIP), and every now and then, I read something on here and decide I want to learn what a stat that I see all the time is, and then I read one of the excellent posts on this site about that stat. I just don’t choose to actively seek those out when I want to learn about a specific player.

One reason is probably this: I am fascinated with the on-field management of the game. Sites such as this one tend to lean more toward the upper management, team construction side of things, at least from what I’ve seen. Not much is said about the on-field aspects beyond the talk of lineup tinkering, which is obviously where more advanced statistical analysis comes in. I like to think of baseball in terms of double switches, suicide squeezes, hit and runs, and “going with your gut”. It’s more fun that way to me.

One more thing to understand about me – I come from an agricultural family. While more progressive than previous generations, it’s hard to get an aggie to move from the “old school”, and we’ll always revert back to it in some situations because that’s just what we know. We’re also inherently skeptical (some may even call us a little “cynical”). It’s just the nature of things due to the fact that there are always people that know nothing of our industry trying to regulate us. I hope that I can be forgiven for being stuck in past times a little.

I could sit here and say that you are uninformed about youth movements and folk traditions about which I have a passion, and it wouldn’t change your life. You wouldn’t care. You wouldn’t run out and start reading histories and learning new crafts (or maybe you would, and that’s fine too). If you’re uninformed about something about which you don’t care, does it matter? No. You can take what I say with all the salt you want – but why don’t you branch out and use garlic? Or saffron? – and it won’t matter to me (though if you want to be skeptical of my admiration for Ubaldo’s pitching or Tulo’s footwork because I don’t develop statistical models based on them, I’m not quite the one who looks silly there). It’s also a specious argument – I could see you taking what I say with a grain of salt if I start talking about BABIP, FIP wOBA, etc. But have you ever seen me talk about such things? No. Because it’s not my thing and I have nothing to contribute in that regard. I actually find it rather cool to hear about stats on certain players in context, but when it gets into a deep nitnoid discussion, I tend to move on and talk to Maria about hot dog brands, and both conversations are equally fun, valid, and participated in by cool, intelligent Rockies fans.

As a side note, you say that getting elbow-deep in stats is divorced from being a fan, and that being “uninformed” because some of us choose not to “inform” ourselves by looking at stats is not the same as being “lazy” or “unintelligent,” but I will tell you that some comments come across as much more “lazy” and “unintelligent” than “not passionate about that aspect of the game.” (This actually includes a comment or two by you.) There are one or two on this blog who are more likely to strike that tone than others, and most of the knowledgable stats folks on this blog are not like that at all. Other places around the sports blogosphere, that attitude is far more prevalent as well.

Bottom line is this: It’s great to be a stat nerd. It’s great not to be a stat nerd. It’s not ok to be an a$$hole to people who enjoy different aspects of the game than you do.

While also hating on people who want to try and further their understanding of something? By thinking? His tone is scornful, abusive and anti-intellectual. Not my cup of tea and I’m surprised anyone on PR genuinely feels that way.