Wednesday Rockpile: Decisions, Decisions...
PURE OFF-TOPIC DISCUSSION HERE
It sure felt good to wallop the Marlins after that tough loss Monday night, didn't it? The win brought Colorado back within 3.5 games of San Diego. Especially good to see last night was the virtuoso performance by Jeff Francis. The Physicist seemed to be losing his mojo of late, so hopefully this start will get him back on track going forward.
And now, a mini-rant:
In terms of evaluating Jim Tracy's *ahem* unorthodox lineup last night, yes it worked. It worked very well. That by no means makes his lineup shuffling a good decision. One of the great fallacies in decision-making is evaluating decisions based upon the outcome rather than upon the reasoning for the decision.
In this case, the outcome was wonderful (Melvin Mora 5 RBIs and an OF assist in the 3 hole?), but I still maintain that Tracy's tinkering put Colorado at a serious disadvantage by leaving several of the team's best players on the bench. Yes, sitting CarGo was probably a justifiable decision, but a) playing Mora in the OF when Seth Smith is available and b) putting a low-slugging player like Mora in the 3 hole more often than not will be a decision that will result in ineptitude. Sitting Jason Giambi and his 1.446 OPS against Nate Robertson is yet another case of over-reliance on platoon matchups by the reigning NL Manager of the Year.
Yes, Jim Tracy's W-L record is stellar, and he has done a few things that I really like this year (like making sure that Chris Iannetta hits against lefty starters), but I still have the nagging feeling that with a few minor adjustments (like consistently playing the best players) the Rockies could be much better. Perhaps this process has already begun, as Ian Stewart has been getting more ABs of late.
Draft Pick Madness
As David OhNo's FanShot below notes, Rockies 1st round draft pick OF Kyle Parker will return to Clemson this fall to play football. What does this mean? Well, David has his thoughts (full thoughts in FanShot comments):
-I still expect Parker to eventually become property of the Rockies, just with a dual sport status applying to Parker and a bonus spread out over five years.
-His prospect status diminishes with each allowable year to compete in football. Parker is a raw talent that needs the attention he can receive in instructs during the fall, not football.
-I don’t want a player that potentially could be allowed to spend three additional fall seasons in football.
To that analysis I'd add this: I'm not optimistic about him becoming a productive player for the Rockies even if they do sign him and he plays football. I wasn't much of a fan of the Parker pick to begin with given how raw his tools are and the other players that were still on the board when Colorado picked. Since he was asking for way over slot money from the Rockies for an all-baseball commitment, it just wasn't worth $3 million to keep him.
At the very least, if Parker doesn't sign the Rockies will get an extra first rounder next year (#27 or so). Colorado also doesn't have supplemental first-rounder Peter Tago (California HS RHP) in the fold yet either, so this is certainly a situation that bears watching over the next month.
More links and analysis below the fold
As Troy Renck notes, Todd Helton will likely return to the Rockies' lineup on Saturday, coming off the DL a few days after he feels healthy enough to contribute. This is a great decision by Tracy/O'Dowd, as Colorado faces some pretty good SP in the next few games (Nolasco/Johnson/Halladay) and they want to ease Helton back into the lineup. Sad to say, but this point, Colorado is better with Helton only in the lineup sparingly--his position is almost the equivalent of Garrett Atkins (at least offensively) last year.
Speaking of Atkins, Renck squelches the possibility of bringing him in to help out at 1B in his mailbag, as well he should. Renck also answers a question about Miguel Olivo's club option (it becomes mutual if he starts 110 games, or 45 of the remaining 69). He also opines that the Rockies will not pick up the 2011 options of Francis ($7.5 million) or Hawpe ($10 million), leaving open the possibility of them returning at a lower price.
I think that Hawpe's option is highly unlikely to be picked up, though offering him arbitration would be risky as he'd likely accept...and arbitration is super-expensive, in case you haven't already heard me spouting off about it. Plus, with Hawpe gone the Rockies would finally play their best players in the outfield. Maybe the best-case scenario is Hawpe moving to first base on a more full-time basis.
As for the other option, I'd just as soon decline Francis' option as well and try to get him back at a lower price, but something tells me that Rox Girl is right and the Rockies pick it up. This is because a) Francis is a home-grown, high-character Rockie who also happens to be a league-average left-handed starting pitcher when he's right (he at least appears to have regained his health this year) and b) Colorado will probably be losing Jorge de la Rosa to free agency, so Francis will be needed to give the rotation some balance. If Christian Friedrich were more advanced, I would be all over letting him have a shot at a rotation shot next year, but I just don't think that his development is far enough along yet.
I leave you with Power Rankings, as is my wont:
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Not overly worried about Tago yet
I have a suspicion that he may be caught up in the comissioner’s office refusal to ok over-slot deals until late. I have no inside knowledge here, but the post draft evidence in favor of him signing is much higher than that against him signing.
Is he at all comparable (aside from not playing third) to Drew Henson?
That would really turn me off to sinking any kind of money into a two-sport guy.
So, Jeff, what you're saying is "SSS"?
That or “the game went well in spite of, and not because of, some of the choices made in the previous game”. I would agree with that. Honestly, all the fawning over Tracy last night got to be a little much after a while. Backing into a good outcome (and make no mistake, that’s what it was with a 1-game sample size) doesn’t completely erase the fact that the team was playing with fire last night. Tracy threw this lineup at the wall and it just happened to stick. Luck is a good thing, to be sure, and I can’t argue with the result, but you can’t count on it always being there for you.
Paleface Destro, RISPy assassin: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Giants: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883.
Recovering Mets fan since 2007
by Paleface Destro on Jul 21, 2010 8:02 AM MDT reply actions
Yeah, but people are getting sick of hearing SSS and I thought that I would attack it from another angle.
The writer formerly known as Jabberwocky
READ and LEARN about the business of baseball at Purple Row Academy
Eschew Obfuscation!
I'm going to play devil's advocate just a bit
and say that Tracy has not been able to trot out the best team the Rockies have once this year. With all of the injuries, he’s had to toss things around, see if he can make salad. And there are going to be games where everyone disagrees with what he does, there has just been that need this year.
I think what people are objecting to more than anything else, if the comments I read pregame were of any indication, was the timing. In the midst of a real tough roadie where everyone has their idea of X number of wins being a success. So far it hasn’t gone real well, so trotting out the B team is what had everyone concerned.
And that one is low and outside, Eldred takes it for ball four.
by frightened inmate #2 on Jul 21, 2010 8:22 AM MDT up reply actions
(please note that the above in no way condones Tracy’s use of Melvin Mora as cleanup hitter earlier in the year.)
And that one is low and outside, Eldred takes it for ball four.
by frightened inmate #2 on Jul 21, 2010 8:34 AM MDT up reply actions
Tracy also has to manage the personalities of the players involved
And with the exception, perhaps, of Smith, I think it sounds like he’s done a decent job.
I won't disagree with this at all
but you have to think that even Melvin Mora looked at last night’s lineup card and just shook his head in disbelief.
Rowsdower! But why, Rowsdower?
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maybe he looked at it and a tear formed in the corner of his eye
Then his chest swelled with confidence instilled by the skip and proceeded to mash
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 21, 2010 9:34 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
therefore making Tracy a genius.
Rowsdower! But why, Rowsdower?
WHEN CHICKS HAVE HOT FRIENDS AND THERE MIGHT BE MORE THAN ONE HOT FRIEND DUCKS FLY TOGETHER
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he did mash in 2008 in the 3 hole for Baltimore
whatever that means
by Andrew Martin on Jul 21, 2010 9:35 AM MDT up reply actions
Really, the only years he looked done were ’06 and ’09. Maybe his quintuplets were sick last year or something.
I don’t think he’s a good fit for what the Rockies need, but last night wasn’t a zombie returning from the dead.
I know
that’s why I said “whatever that means” – I’m not like sold on him either
by Andrew Martin on Jul 21, 2010 9:41 AM MDT up reply actions
fair enough
It’s good to see guys step up.
by Andrew Martin on Jul 21, 2010 9:44 AM MDT up reply actions
he's 4 feet tall, hard not to
Rowsdower! But why, Rowsdower?
WHEN CHICKS HAVE HOT FRIENDS AND THERE MIGHT BE MORE THAN ONE HOT FRIEND DUCKS FLY TOGETHER
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Here's another angle on this
I don’t think you can look at last night as a SSS.
Tracy’s managed 200 games or so for the Rockies, and thus, his sample size of Rockies’ lineup construction is more like 200, not 1.
And, he’s nearly 40 over .500 in that stretch. So, it stands to reason his lineup construction hasn’t exactly hurt. In fact, we’re right at Pythag, no? So you can’t really say his lineup construction is underperforming.
Befuddling, yes. But that’s our issue, not his.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
bizarre lineups producing like this is much akin to Torrealba using warp tunnels to make his crappy groundballs land in the outfield safely
by Andrew Martin on Jul 21, 2010 9:58 AM MDT up reply actions
There's also a lot to be said for not pissing on what's actually working
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
by Mondogarage on Jul 21, 2010 10:03 AM MDT up reply actions
depends on how you look at expectations for today's game
I expect him to bat like he has this season
other people see a hot streak
by Andrew Martin on Jul 21, 2010 10:08 AM MDT up reply actions
I don't see either
I see Tracy taking a look at his team and input from his coaches and putting the best lineup together from what he has available on that day.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
by Mondogarage on Jul 21, 2010 10:16 AM MDT up reply actions
I don't see Mora fitting into that equation defensively
that’s my biggest beef, the shift seems to have moved from “play your best defense” to “….”
by Andrew Martin on Jul 21, 2010 10:19 AM MDT up reply actions
I think Mora does OK at third base at least.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
by Franchise26 on Jul 21, 2010 10:19 AM MDT up reply actions
Mora would have been at 3B if CarGo were available
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
by Mondogarage on Jul 21, 2010 10:21 AM MDT up reply actions
Remember, he wanted more RH in the lineup
Smith wasn’t going to start.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
by Mondogarage on Jul 21, 2010 10:26 AM MDT up reply actions
thats the problem
smith should start. tracy is too dogmatic with his platoons
Someday karma is going to run over his dogma
Ubaldo Jimenez: Your Cy Young awaits in 2010
Brad Hawpe: Get that sweet swing going soon!
Todd and Troy: Get well soon!
Clint Barmes: Do you want to lose your job to Uggla?
QPU Member #4, Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #4, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
Was that a "catty" comment on dogma?
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
No, actually its from a bumper sticker
I see all over Cali
“My karma just ran over your dogma”
Ubaldo Jimenez: Blinding hitters with fastballs and smiles
Brad Hawpe: Where are you?
Todd and Tulo: Ready to Rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, NYY Haters Encouragement Grp Member #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
annnd just saw what you did there.....doh!!!
Ubaldo Jimenez: Blinding hitters with fastballs and smiles
Brad Hawpe: Where are you?
Todd and Tulo: Ready to Rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, NYY Haters Encouragement Grp Member #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
Your Karma revealed...
Did it start?
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
My karma is still dead
I just need to call AAA
Ubaldo Jimenez: Blinding hitters with fastballs and smiles
Brad Hawpe: Where are you?
Todd and Tulo: Ready to Rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, NYY Haters Encouragement Grp Member #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
You might consider flushing the tank after it sat so long.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Good point...
although I think I didn’t have much in the tank when I left….maybe 1/4 of a tank?
Ubaldo Jimenez: Blinding hitters with fastballs and smiles
Brad Hawpe: Where are you?
Todd and Tulo: Ready to Rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, NYY Haters Encouragement Grp Member #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
All the more reason to flush it!
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Mora's okay at 3rd,, he's just too short for 1st
and unskilled at second
Ubaldo Jimenez: Your Cy Young awaits in 2010
Brad Hawpe: Get that sweet swing going soon!
Todd and Troy: Get well soon!
Clint Barmes: Do you want to lose your job to Uggla?
QPU Member #4, Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #4, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
I'm not so sure it was fawning over Tracy, as much as fawning over MelMo
Ubaldo Jimenez: Your Cy Young awaits in 2010
Brad Hawpe: Get that sweet swing going soon!
Todd and Troy: Get well soon!
Clint Barmes: Do you want to lose your job to Uggla?
QPU Member #4, Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #4, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
I think you have to look at a lot of the "fawning" over Tracy as sarcasm
I think after the game last night there was a pretty good mixture of “Heh, I guess Tracy does know more about baseball than we credit him for” and “I’m teh stuped becuzz I didn’t think Moruh batting cleanupz wuld werk” type sarcasm…
Bazinga!
by Junction Rox on Jul 21, 2010 11:06 AM MDT up reply actions
Blue links of....domination?
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 21, 2010 8:06 AM MDT reply actions
MELVIN MORA IS DISPLEASED WITH YOUR NON-BELIEF
The 09/10 Colorado Rockies: Starring Johnny Herrera as THE ANSWER
THIS IS BUFFALO NATION GODZILLA HAS AWAKEN - abayarde
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Burgundy Wave: My Rapids Blog
I sense that you're going to be first of many saying something like that today. :)
Paleface Destro, RISPy assassin: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Giants: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883.
Recovering Mets fan since 2007
by Paleface Destro on Jul 21, 2010 8:13 AM MDT up reply actions
Blind Squirrel. Nut.
Rowsdower! But why, Rowsdower?
WHEN CHICKS HAVE HOT FRIENDS AND THERE MIGHT BE MORE THAN ONE HOT FRIEND DUCKS FLY TOGETHER
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Just saying they're 1.000 with him in left field
just saying
The 09/10 Colorado Rockies: Starring Johnny Herrera as THE ANSWER
THIS IS BUFFALO NATION GODZILLA HAS AWAKEN - abayarde
SBNation Denver: Because the Rapids are people too!
Burgundy Wave: My Rapids Blog
by UZ on Jul 21, 2010 8:40 AM MDT up reply actions
Rockies win in spite of Tracy’s lineup management, not because of it.
Rowsdower! But why, Rowsdower?
WHEN CHICKS HAVE HOT FRIENDS AND THERE MIGHT BE MORE THAN ONE HOT FRIEND DUCKS FLY TOGETHER
Denver.SBNation.com
Me making funny jokes
The 09/10 Colorado Rockies: Starring Johnny Herrera as THE ANSWER
THIS IS BUFFALO NATION GODZILLA HAS AWAKEN - abayarde
SBNation Denver: Because the Rapids are people too!
Burgundy Wave: My Rapids Blog
by UZ on Jul 21, 2010 8:43 AM MDT up reply actions
wrong thread
Rowsdower! But why, Rowsdower?
WHEN CHICKS HAVE HOT FRIENDS AND THERE MIGHT BE MORE THAN ONE HOT FRIEND DUCKS FLY TOGETHER
Denver.SBNation.com
WHENCHICKS HAVE HOT FRIENDSMORA BATS 3RD ANDTHERE MIGHT BE MORE THAN ONE HOT FRIENDWE HAVE NO IDEA WHAT TO EXPECT FROM FRANCIS, DUCKS FLY TOGETHER
And that one is low and outside, Eldred takes it for ball four.
by frightened inmate #2 on Jul 21, 2010 8:47 AM MDT up reply actions
haha thats awesome
People take many things way too serious.
I can get a rise out of you.
It's not quite a blind squirrel finding that nut.
He still has an ability to perform competently, and an ability to go above or below that. I’m pretty sure most would agree they expect the below to above ratio to be ~3:1.
Last night was just him getting that 1 in. I’ll take it for what it is.
sick band name
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
blindsquirrel.nut.com
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
Melvin Mora is displeased with everything.
Score a goal. Unit. Basket. Go squadron! Do good! Defeat the opponents soundly in this...skirmish.
We can play Devil's advocate and rationalize all we want
I wasn’t in the game thread last night, so I don’t honestly know if people were fawning over the “genius” of Jim Tracy but as I texted: The 2010 Colorado Rockies win in spite of Tracy’s lineup management, not because of it.
The “throw things at a wall” strategy will likely be our undoing later on this season and it’s infuriating.
His bullpen handling can be excellent sometimes, meh at others. That I don’t have a huge problem with. But we have Bruce Bochy Jr. in the dugout right now and its inexcusable.
/rant
Rowsdower! But why, Rowsdower?
WHEN CHICKS HAVE HOT FRIENDS AND THERE MIGHT BE MORE THAN ONE HOT FRIEND DUCKS FLY TOGETHER
Denver.SBNation.com
by Muzia on Jul 21, 2010 8:35 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Well it was nice to have tracy complemented for once last night sometimes this place is unbearable with the anti tracy stuff
"Don't give up, don't ever give up" - Jim Valvano
by nodakroxfan on Jul 21, 2010 8:47 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
well, there's typically good reason for it
by Andrew Martin on Jul 21, 2010 9:30 AM MDT up reply actions
Often so.
But other times with some decisions it seems like a knee-jerk reaction and then someone else comes along and points out the very good reason for the decision.
For example, a double switch is logically made and people start complaining about why Player X is removed (easy, he made the last out). Or a hit and run fails and people scream about why they did a hit and run there (because it was a pretty good situation to try it, the batter just didn’t come through). Etc.
This would probably happen no matter who the manager is, though. Just one of my least favorite parts of sports fandoms in general.
every state has the worst
weather and traffic…
There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit. ~Al Gallagher, 1971
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson
JFK
aren't the cops here the worst?
And that one is low and outside, Eldred takes it for ball four.
by frightened inmate #2 on Jul 21, 2010 12:28 PM MDT up reply actions
Aurora cops were maybe are...
(no offense to any Aurora cops present or anyone related to any)
Ubaldo Jimenez: Blinding hitters with fastballs and smiles
Brad Hawpe: Where are you?
Todd and Tulo: Ready to Rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, NYY Haters Encouragement Grp Member #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
and what's the deal with airline food
by Andrew Martin on Jul 21, 2010 12:30 PM MDT up reply actions
don't you hate pants?
And that one is low and outside, Eldred takes it for ball four.
by frightened inmate #2 on Jul 21, 2010 12:31 PM MDT up reply actions
Airlines have food now?
Ubaldo Jimenez: Blinding hitters with fastballs and smiles
Brad Hawpe: Where are you?
Todd and Tulo: Ready to Rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, NYY Haters Encouragement Grp Member #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
Airlines have food now?
Ubaldo Jimenez: Blinding hitters with fastballs and smiles
Brad Hawpe: Where are you?
Todd and Tulo: Ready to Rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, NYY Haters Encouragement Grp Member #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
I've lived in many, and I can state with 1000% certainty....
….that DC/NoVA has the worst.
Of traffic, definitely, and of weather, probably.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
by Mondogarage on Jul 21, 2010 12:29 PM MDT up reply actions
What's really annoying about DC/MD/NoVA
is that you’d think the winters would be more hospitable. But even in years with little snow, it gets and stays in the 20s for long stretches. Add in the moisture in the air, and it’s a heavy, wet cold hanging on you while you walk to the metro every morning.
This, and it's EVEN WORSE NOW
if you can believe it or not. The whole Beltway around Tyson’s is to’up from the flo’up, going to like 16 lanes, Metro being built over the top, etc.
It used to take me longer to drive the 10 wee miles from Reston to Tyson’s to work than it takes me to drive the 35 miles from Longmontucky to downtown Denver.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
by Mondogarage on Jul 21, 2010 12:43 PM MDT up reply actions
I lived over in Bethesda until last year
and, aside from trying not to die on the metro, tried never to go out to Arlington. It’s the absolute worst example of urban/suburban planning I’ve ever seen.
The most annoying thing, to me, occurs down near Quantico where the HOV lanes (southbound) merge with regular 95. Rather than a gradual shift back into 3 or 4 lanes, they tried to cram the 2 HOV lanes into the far left lane of the regular 95. Guaranteed back up every f’ing time, no matter what time of day.
Everything about Prince William County sucks...
….Arlington, however, still has a lot of really really cool joints. I loved that place. Except for how Clarendon went all upscale….
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
I enjoyed some of Arlington
but it was too crowded with people I went to school with/people like the people i didn’t like from school.
Completely underrated: Shelly’s Backroom on 14th&F (if you’re into cigars), and the National Food Court’s happy hour (same intersection): $3 32oz Bud and Bud Light, and if it got to 7pm they’d give you the left over pizza.
Don't make me drink Bud Light ;-)
I think I spent half my 30s at the Galaxy Hut. I did like Mozarts, and there was this 40s aviation-themed place on the corner of 14th and S or T (end of the block the Black Cat’s on) that I really dug.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
that's because many of us fans, don't remember the strategy at the time.
Ubaldo Jimenez: Blinding hitters with fastballs and smiles
Brad Hawpe: Where are you?
Todd and Tulo: Ready to Rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, NYY Haters Encouragement Grp Member #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
If Bruce Bochy Jr.
was half the parliamentarian that the real Bruce Bochy is, this team might be able to get by on luck rather than goods.
I don't have a problem with Parker missing a year
I mean, most prospects don’t do much in their first season anyway. My problem is he is playing football. There is way to much risk in that. It is way too easy for him to rip apart his acl, bust his shoulder, or scramble his brains.
So, the Yanks might need a pitcher to replace Pettite
If they came to the Rockies, what realistic trade would you propose?
who would they be interested in?
Rowsdower! But why, Rowsdower?
WHEN CHICKS HAVE HOT FRIENDS AND THERE MIGHT BE MORE THAN ONE HOT FRIEND DUCKS FLY TOGETHER
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No one that we would be willing to part with at this point
I’m sure Hammel is starting to look pretty intriguing to a lot of teams.
Chris Carpenter kind of failed in the AL East too
Both pitchers happened to enter their healthy/growth period upon leaving
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 21, 2010 9:18 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
They were the same age when they joined the NL,
but that’s about where the comparison ends.
Chris Carpenter had some legit good years in Toronto’s rotation (’98 FIP: 4.06, ’99 FIP: 4.13, ’01 FIP: 4.09). Then he had TJ surgery before coming back with the Cards in ’04, which presumably improved the comfort level in his arm.
i wasnt saying Carpenter was necessarily bad in Toronto
Actually, Hammel and Carpenter improved comparably from AL to NL. My point is just that Hammel’s improvement isn’t solely relocation. He is legitimately a better pitcher
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 21, 2010 9:30 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Chris Carpenter kind of failed in the AL East too
If Hammel has the kind of success Carpenter had in ‘05 I’ll agree with your comparison.
Yes, Hammel has improved, but a guy’s reputation sticks with him. If he reaches the kind of success Carpenter had (which he likely will not), I could see him being worth more to other teams than the Rockies. But at the moment, he’s more valuable than whatever prospects the Rockies would get in return.*
Not that I’m saying you implied any of that.
i did protect myself a little with "kind of", right? maybe
Ill agree that perhaps Hammel is worth more to the rockies than how he is viewed elsewhere, but reputation be damned, he would still be an asset for the Yankees. Just like Toronto would take carpenter back in a second
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 21, 2010 9:51 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
You kind of protected yourself with "kind of."
Sure, after ‘05 they’d have taken Carp back (though not now because of the salary and the age), but Hammel has yet to show that kind of performance.
I do think Hammel would be an asset for the Yankees, but his track record isn’t strong enough (even though his performance for the Rockies has been great) to make him a trade chip that would bring back more in value than what Hammel provides.
I was wondering personally about DLR
Especially as we’re probably losing him anyway. Could we get something out of the yanks that would mitigate him leaving our rotation?
The Yanks have money
but they’re not stupid. I don’t think they really need DLR
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
There's a C or B prospect in trading DLR
but, again, the cost to the Rockies in depth (plus trading at lowest possible value) would make the move a net negative.
either that or
Dave Duncan > AL&NL
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
I dunno man
Dac has been pretty good lately, but Duncan is friggin magic…just don’t tell that to Anthony Reyes
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
Number of Jason Marquis fixed by pitching coaches:
Leo Mazzone: 0
Dave Duncan: 0
Bob Apodaca: 1
by Andrew Martin on Jul 21, 2010 10:44 AM MDT up reply actions
SMALL SAMPLE SIZE
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
n00b
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
win
There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit. ~Al Gallagher, 1971
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson
JFK
trade a truly homegrown talent for a guy with attitude issues
No way in hell
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 21, 2010 10:44 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
I would offer them
Franklin Morales OR Jorge DeLaRosa Or Jason Hammel for
Joba Chamberlin
Zach McAllister, rhp
and $6 Million Dollars ($4Million for Dan Uggla the rest of the year and $2Million for a reliever)
then I offer
Zach McAllister
(And a 2 B-/C+ Prospects)
for
Dan Uggla
People take many things way too serious.
I can get a rise out of you.
Oh, I do not want Joba on the Rockies
He does not Rule(s)
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
hahha what Joba is awful
they completely broke the poor bastard
by Andrew Martin on Jul 21, 2010 9:57 AM MDT up reply actions

"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton

"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
by Franchise26 on Jul 21, 2010 10:01 AM MDT up reply actions

The 09/10 Colorado Rockies: Starring Johnny Herrera as THE ANSWER
THIS IS BUFFALO NATION GODZILLA HAS AWAKEN - abayarde
SBNation Denver: Because the Rapids are people too!
Burgundy Wave: My Rapids Blog
Wtf are any of these?
mutant friggin pears?
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
I know the artist that did the original
Her name is Ursula Vernon, and she’s awesome.
Original: http://www.redwombatstudio.com/wpg2?g2_itemId=423
We are Fangirl. We are Legion.
We cause grown men to hide under their beds until the squealing fades away.
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #Δ
Clint Barmes: Haters gonna hate. (with optional vuvuzela)
lol thanks for clarifying, I was totally confused
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
Yeah, I didn't realize how much it had snowballed
The last one might even frighten her.
We are Fangirl. We are Legion.
We cause grown men to hide under their beds until the squealing fades away.
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #Δ
Clint Barmes: Haters gonna hate. (with optional vuvuzela)
Joba Chamberlin

The 09/10 Colorado Rockies: Starring Johnny Herrera as THE ANSWER
THIS IS BUFFALO NATION GODZILLA HAS AWAKEN - abayarde
SBNation Denver: Because the Rapids are people too!
Burgundy Wave: My Rapids Blog
Um.
Rowsdower! But why, Rowsdower?
WHEN CHICKS HAVE HOT FRIENDS AND THERE MIGHT BE MORE THAN ONE HOT FRIEND DUCKS FLY TOGETHER
Denver.SBNation.com
That's a legitimately terrible illustration
The writer formerly known as Jabberwocky
READ and LEARN about the business of baseball at Purple Row Academy
Eschew Obfuscation!
by Jeff Aberle on Jul 21, 2010 10:42 AM MDT up reply actions
I like the dudes Rockies hat
the brim is doing weird stuff
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
It's a Moebius brim
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
by Mondogarage on Jul 21, 2010 10:45 AM MDT up reply actions
And spectacular at the same time.
Ubaldo Jimenez: Your Cy Young awaits in 2010
Brad Hawpe: Get that sweet swing going soon!
Todd and Troy: Get well soon!
Clint Barmes: Do you want to lose your job to Uggla?
QPU Member #4, Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #4, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
Hahaha
and It worked
People take many things way too serious.
I can get a rise out of you.
Yup
I set a Joba Chamberlin candy bar on the Rockies bridge…then quick ran underneath, and a bunch of people fell for it…
People take many things way too serious.
I can get a rise out of you.
I think you got like 2 responses out of me
by Andrew Martin on Jul 21, 2010 3:49 PM MDT up reply actions
It made my day reading the responses then
the pictures were just awesome…priceless
People take many things way too serious.
I can get a rise out of you.
Am I the only one that is legitimately disappointed to be getting Todd “Lowest OPS On The Team” Helton back? I mean, say what you want about Mora batting third, but I’d rather have him there then Helton ANYWHERE in the batting order right now.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
I reserve judgment on Todd until I see how he performs
Considering all he has done for this organization, I think he deserves the shot anywhere in the lineup.
Ubaldo Jimenez: Your Cy Young awaits in 2010
Brad Hawpe: Get that sweet swing going soon!
Todd and Troy: Get well soon!
Clint Barmes: Do you want to lose your job to Uggla?
QPU Member #4, Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #4, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
I’ve watched him ‘perform’ for two and a half months. That’s long enough to notice the giant fork protruding from the man’s back.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
That was prior to his stint on DL...and a cortisone shot.
Ubaldo Jimenez: Your Cy Young awaits in 2010
Brad Hawpe: Get that sweet swing going soon!
Todd and Troy: Get well soon!
Clint Barmes: Do you want to lose your job to Uggla?
QPU Member #4, Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #4, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
A bit of a Rant here
I’m tired of this “all he’s done for the organization” nonsense. We have to DFA someone to take a chance that he comes back and is productive. Which I will be stunned if he does. I am beginning to think last year was the last time we need to see Todd regularly in the lineup. God bless al he has done, but if this organization is willing to risk a playoff run to appease an aging veteran, than they deserve everything Kizla gives them. There is no SSS he just can’t be productive at the plate. And if he has been hurt all year and “playing through it” than he obviously doen’t care about the team and only himself. Rant over
than they deserve everything Kizla gives them.
Whoa, hey now…
Rowsdower! But why, Rowsdower?
WHEN CHICKS HAVE HOT FRIENDS AND THERE MIGHT BE MORE THAN ONE HOT FRIEND DUCKS FLY TOGETHER
Denver.SBNation.com
let's not say things we can't take back
by Andrew Martin on Jul 21, 2010 9:33 AM MDT up reply actions
That was a little over the line. No team deserves Kizla...maybe the Giants
o’m sure he would go over well with the MCC crowd
I understand what you are saying, I'm just saying over the next few games, if Todd
can’t hit, I imagine that will be all. I"m not sure about having to DFA and hope someone clears waivers. WolfM can better address the DFA part of things. If someone has options, they would be sent back down.
Ubaldo Jimenez: Your Cy Young awaits in 2010
Brad Hawpe: Get that sweet swing going soon!
Todd and Troy: Get well soon!
Clint Barmes: Do you want to lose your job to Uggla?
QPU Member #4, Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #4, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
you really think he's going through this whole DL stint just for a few more games?
Rowsdower! But why, Rowsdower?
WHEN CHICKS HAVE HOT FRIENDS AND THERE MIGHT BE MORE THAN ONE HOT FRIEND DUCKS FLY TOGETHER
Denver.SBNation.com
Yeah, I do. Because I think we're going to know pretty quick
if Todd is able to produce or not..
Ubaldo Jimenez: Your Cy Young awaits in 2010
Brad Hawpe: Get that sweet swing going soon!
Todd and Troy: Get well soon!
Clint Barmes: Do you want to lose your job to Uggla?
QPU Member #4, Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #4, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
I guess you would have DFA's Mike Schmidt his last year, too, no?
I mean, what are you arguing for right this moment, DFA Helton so that you don’t have to maybe expose Melvin Mora to waivers next week?
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
by Mondogarage on Jul 21, 2010 10:00 AM MDT up reply actions
No the DFA for Helton to come back. We are limited in who has options
I’m not saying DFA Helton. If Eldred is DFA’d for Helton’s return who gets sent down/DFA when Tulo comes back next week? Herrera will get picked up. Mora??
Herrera won't be picked up
There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit. ~Al Gallagher, 1971
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson
JFK
most teams
don’t need to go out and pick up a utility player to add to their 40 man roster. If they need a utility player they will call up one of their AAA players who will probably already be on the roster.
There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit. ~Al Gallagher, 1971
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson
JFK
Herrera sadly is the odd man out.
Tracy more or less said so last week. He said Herrera (and someone else I can’t remember now) are not players you build around.
Ubaldo Jimenez: Your Cy Young awaits in 2010
Brad Hawpe: Get that sweet swing going soon!
Todd and Tulo: Unquestioned leaders and ready to rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #4, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
i think he sees "his team"
performing without him and he doesn’t want to be on the bench. When I here reports that BP is yeilding some good line drives and many grounders to short I’m not impressed. i just don’t want Mays/Mattingly out there just because
Plus the org doesn't really own him anything
he’s made $131 million in career salary from the Rockies and still has roughly $29 million due until 2023. The very least he owes us is not insisting on playing time if he can’ t produce.
There's a difference between "not owing him anything" and showing some class
After all, he played most of his career at a HOF level, on a lot of truly mediocre and sad teams, and not one time did he ever pull a superstar trade demand, or whine and complain about what he was surrounded with, etc.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
by Mondogarage on Jul 21, 2010 10:01 AM MDT up reply actions
this gets me
I feel awful that his back and age decided to catch up on him in 2010. Just awful.
He hung with us during a rebuild, but we can’t hang with him during a chase. This is assuming his re-audition goes poorly.
by Andrew Martin on Jul 21, 2010 12:32 PM MDT up reply actions
I don't think anyone wants the team to keep throwing him out there if it goes poorly.
I think what people object to is the idea that they shouldn’t give him a chance right now.
I don't think Helton
wants to be thrown out there if he’s not contributing. Keep in mind the personal standards that he no doubt has for himself.
Cooler than a polar bear's toenails...
And I don't think anyone is objecting to him getting the shot.
I just think the debate has to be “what results are we looking for” and if those results aren’t there, how long before we try something else?
And that one is low and outside, Eldred takes it for ball four.
by frightened inmate #2 on Jul 21, 2010 12:35 PM MDT up reply actions
The organization doesn't it "owe" him money wise.
But it would be a rather crappy thing to do to a guy that has been the face of this franchise and put them on the map to the rest of world. He could have walked away, or demanded a trade when we sucked…etc etc. He’s been nothing but class…The organization should do so as well
Ubaldo Jimenez: Your Cy Young awaits in 2010
Brad Hawpe: Get that sweet swing going soon!
Todd and Troy: Get well soon!
Clint Barmes: Do you want to lose your job to Uggla?
QPU Member #4, Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #4, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
worked for the Mariners
Rowsdower! But why, Rowsdower?
WHEN CHICKS HAVE HOT FRIENDS AND THERE MIGHT BE MORE THAN ONE HOT FRIEND DUCKS FLY TOGETHER
Denver.SBNation.com
Griffey is not the reason the Mariners suck this year
I see they’ve played so much better since he retired.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
by Mondogarage on Jul 21, 2010 10:18 AM MDT up reply actions
"Hey Todd we'll totally shoot ourselves in the foot in a playoff hunt because we respect you"
“hey thanks guys”
by Andrew Martin on Jul 21, 2010 10:15 AM MDT up reply actions
You wanna lose a clubhouse? Push Todd out to pasture this year
Pushing Todd to retire so we can keep Melvin Mora is not going to be the difference between a playoff spot or not this year.
Wow, you guys are starting to come across like Red Sox fans, ready to shoot Bill Buckner’s dog or chase Clemens out of town in the early 90s.
Yeah, Red Sox fans. I said it.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
by Mondogarage on Jul 21, 2010 10:20 AM MDT up reply actions
No, I have no problem with him coming back
and am all in favor of giving him starts. But come September if he is still in a funk its reasonable to think that his role is going to be one of veterany bench guy
I think this is *absolutely* what's going to happen
But right now, it’s late July. If he’s healthy, give him 2-3 weeks to see what he’s got left.
Tracy will not be playing him 5x a week in September if he’s not hitting.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
by Mondogarage on Jul 21, 2010 10:24 AM MDT up reply actions
Yeah, so we are on the same page
I’m more concerned about next year, honestly, because there is no way we go get a semi long term solution at 1B if Todd is still no the team.
Here's the thing
If Helton does not contribute this year while healthy, I really think he retires.
If he does come back and hits, say, .290 with a reasonable number of doubles, and plays his great defense, then he probably does come back next year, but would have earned the right to.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
by Mondogarage on Jul 21, 2010 10:27 AM MDT up reply actions
I'd be ok with that
if he was decent the last half the season. But we would need to get a much better 1B platoon partner than Giambi, preferably a guy who hits from the right side.
Well, that's a fait accompli
If Helton becomes the LH platoon at 1B, Giambi won’t be back under any circumstances. (And he likely won’t, anyway. Pretty certain this is his last go-round.)
No idea who we would get, but it won’t be another LHer.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
by Mondogarage on Jul 21, 2010 10:31 AM MDT up reply actions
Maybe Wigginton
Garrett Atkins (31) – $8.5MM club option with a $500K buyout
Lance Berkman (35) – $15MM club option with a $2MM buyout
Wilson Betemit (29)
Hank Blalock (30)
Russell Branyan (35) – $5MM mutual option
Jorge Cantu (29)
Frank Catalanotto (37)
Adam Dunn (31)
Troy Glaus (34)
Wes Helms (35)
Eric Hinske (33)
Aubrey Huff (34)
Mike Jacobs (30)
Nick Johnson (32) – $5.5MM mutual option with a $250K buyout
Paul Konerko (35)
Adam LaRoche (31) – $7.5MM mutual option with a $1.5MM buyout
Derrek Lee (35)
Doug Mientkiewicz (37)
Kevin Millar (39)
Lyle Overbay (34)
Carlos Pena (33)
Albert Pujols (31) – $16MM club option with a $5MM buyout
Fernando Tatis (36)
Chad Tracy (31)
Ty Wigginton (33)
ha, nice
seriously in my sim games I signed an Ensberg type who mashed lefties and played the corners.
Platooned with Stewart, backed up 1B, it was great
by Andrew Martin on Jul 21, 2010 11:59 AM MDT up reply actions
i actually went to hs with a guy named Mike Rocha
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 21, 2010 1:11 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
it'd work great on the Italian Simpsons
by Andrew Martin on Jul 21, 2010 1:13 PM MDT up reply actions
Just dont tell
Hugh Jassanello
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
I had a friend in the Air Force
Who reported to a Major Pussay
Cooler than a polar bear's toenails...
I know someone who was a
Major Organ….true…Army Ranger…lol
Ubaldo Jimenez: Blinding hitters with fastballs and smiles
Brad Hawpe: Where are you?
Todd and Tulo: Ready to Rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, NYY Haters Encouragement Grp Member #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
without pictures
there can be no proof. and she did not post pictures in the off season picture thread we had, therefore…
There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit. ~Al Gallagher, 1971
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson
JFK
On that list and gettable
Thinking strictly next season…
I’d be willing to take a flyer on Blalock. Maybe Overbay. I’m looking only as platoon players, so spending the $$$ on LaRoche wouldn’t really work.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
by Mondogarage on Jul 21, 2010 10:36 AM MDT up reply actions
Nick Johnson is seriously 32?
Rowsdower! But why, Rowsdower?
WHEN CHICKS HAVE HOT FRIENDS AND THERE MIGHT BE MORE THAN ONE HOT FRIEND DUCKS FLY TOGETHER
Denver.SBNation.com
Glaus is having a good year with ATL
but he might be too expensive
That's my thinking
He’s probably looking for 3 years at $8m after this season (though I doubt he gets that much).
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
by Mondogarage on Jul 21, 2010 10:39 AM MDT up reply actions
I'm sure people will throw around Berkman
if his option doesn’t get picked up, but he is not good from the right side at all, and has been injury prone.
look, where do we draw the line?
He’s at Josh Fogg levels of production, meaning largely ineffective but everyone loves him,
I love him.
and I don’t care who we lose, really, I’m more concerned that “oh look Helton’s back” /posts .650 OPS “oh good”
by Andrew Martin on Jul 21, 2010 10:22 AM MDT up reply actions
See my post right above this
And Josh Fogg does not equal Todd Helton in any fashion.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
by Mondogarage on Jul 21, 2010 10:25 AM MDT up reply actions
I know I'm drawing weak comparisons
but what we’ve seen so far is “godawful batting” and “clubhouse/loyalty”
by Andrew Martin on Jul 21, 2010 10:32 AM MDT up reply actions
Come on RMN...this is beyond a weak comparison
Todd is still the unquestioned leader in the clubhouse. Fogg was fun, lighthearted popular…I know I disagree with you a lot, but even you have to disagree with yourself here.
Ubaldo Jimenez: Your Cy Young awaits in 2010
Brad Hawpe: Get that sweet swing going soon!
Todd and Troy: Get well soon!
Clint Barmes: Do you want to lose your job to Uggla?
QPU Member #4, Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #4, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
that what?
We have a clubhouse babysitter who can’t bat? Has a trick back? Is old (by sports standards)? Has Chrohn’s disease? Has a career playing at altitude catching up to him?
by Andrew Martin on Jul 21, 2010 10:45 AM MDT up reply actions
Chrohns' disease? What does that have to do with it?
You really don’t think he deserves another shot this season after coming off the DL, to see if this has helped him in the short term?
Ubaldo Jimenez: Your Cy Young awaits in 2010
Brad Hawpe: Get that sweet swing going soon!
Todd and Troy: Get well soon!
Clint Barmes: Do you want to lose your job to Uggla?
QPU Member #4, Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #4, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
Hasn't he been having fairly weak batting cage sessions though?
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
Not according to Dugger and Tracy.
We all know he’s no power bat anymore, but historically he works counts, etc etc. But let’s see what he does
Ubaldo Jimenez: Your Cy Young awaits in 2010
Brad Hawpe: Get that sweet swing going soon!
Todd and Troy: Get well soon!
Clint Barmes: Do you want to lose your job to Uggla?
QPU Member #4, Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #4, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
i don't think anyone is saying he gets no shot.
i think what people are saying is they don’t expect huge things, and then what?
And that one is low and outside, Eldred takes it for ball four.
by frightened inmate #2 on Jul 21, 2010 10:49 AM MDT up reply actions
No, that is pretty much what AMart is saying
Unless he’s saying “Todd, you got 8 ABs to show us what you can do”
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
by Mondogarage on Jul 21, 2010 10:50 AM MDT up reply actions
No, i think AMart is resigning the fact that
he will get playing time. And saying he doesn’t expect much. And bummed by it.
(is that what you are saying RMN?)
And that one is low and outside, Eldred takes it for ball four.
by frightened inmate #2 on Jul 21, 2010 10:54 AM MDT up reply actions
yep that's pretty much it
and even more bummed that if we get like 75 PA of .650 OPS Tracy will give him another 100 because Helton
by Andrew Martin on Jul 21, 2010 10:55 AM MDT up reply actions
no, the shitty thing is that
he’ll probably be meh, but then have one really good game with like a homer and some fancy D at first. and then hell get a bunch more meh playing time
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
that's my biggest concern
and it’ll totally be what happens
by Andrew Martin on Jul 21, 2010 11:01 AM MDT up reply actions
I'm a professional
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
I don't expect HUGE things
like you know 20 HR, or 20 doubles. But I do expect to see him return to getting on base and driving in some runs with runners on. I get the vibe(maybe I’m wrong) that some people don’t think it even deserves the shot.
Ubaldo Jimenez: Your Cy Young awaits in 2010
Brad Hawpe: Get that sweet swing going soon!
Todd and Troy: Get well soon!
Clint Barmes: Do you want to lose your job to Uggla?
QPU Member #4, Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #4, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
gee a bigtime disease in your mid-30s that saps your strength is sure to have zero effect on an athlete long term
by Andrew Martin on Jul 21, 2010 10:56 AM MDT up reply actions
I didn't know that Todd has Crohn's disease....
Ubaldo Jimenez: Your Cy Young awaits in 2010
Brad Hawpe: Get that sweet swing going soon!
Todd and Troy: Get well soon!
Clint Barmes: Do you want to lose your job to Uggla?
QPU Member #4, Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #4, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
better look into these things before eschewing them
by Andrew Martin on Jul 21, 2010 11:02 AM MDT up reply actions
I didn't eschew it at all.
I just didn’t understand that correlation to Helton. Throw in a link, for ease of use :)
Ubaldo Jimenez: Your Cy Young awaits in 2010
Brad Hawpe: Get that sweet swing going soon!
Todd and Troy: Get well soon!
Clint Barmes: Do you want to lose your job to Uggla?
QPU Member #4, Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #4, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
Chrohns’ disease? What does that have to do with it?
that would be eschewing
by Andrew Martin on Jul 21, 2010 11:30 AM MDT up reply actions
I disagree. Eschewing would be saying
Chrohn’s disease would not be impactful. I did not say that. I didn’t understand what Crohn’s disease had to do with Todd Helton…..
Ubaldo Jimenez: Your Cy Young awaits in 2010
Brad Hawpe: Get that sweet swing going soon!
Todd and Tulo: Unquestioned leaders and ready to rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #4, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
/popcorn
The writer formerly known as Jabberwocky
READ and LEARN about the business of baseball at Purple Row Academy
Eschew Obfuscation!
by Jeff Aberle on Jul 21, 2010 10:48 AM MDT up reply actions
hey, don't hog it all
Rowsdower! But why, Rowsdower?
WHEN CHICKS HAVE HOT FRIENDS AND THERE MIGHT BE MORE THAN ONE HOT FRIEND DUCKS FLY TOGETHER
Denver.SBNation.com
do you guys want some parmesan cheese?
and Junior Mints?
Ubaldo Jimenez: Your Cy Young awaits in 2010
Brad Hawpe: Get that sweet swing going soon!
Todd and Troy: Get well soon!
Clint Barmes: Do you want to lose your job to Uggla?
QPU Member #4, Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #4, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
who brings cheese to a movie theater
Rowsdower! But why, Rowsdower?
WHEN CHICKS HAVE HOT FRIENDS AND THERE MIGHT BE MORE THAN ONE HOT FRIEND DUCKS FLY TOGETHER
Denver.SBNation.com
They offer it at the snacks counter?
along with garlic salt, cinnamon, etc etc as toppings for popcorn. Kerasotes specifically
Ubaldo Jimenez: Your Cy Young awaits in 2010
Brad Hawpe: Get that sweet swing going soon!
Todd and Troy: Get well soon!
Clint Barmes: Do you want to lose your job to Uggla?
QPU Member #4, Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #4, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
What about seeing....
1. early season vision problems
2. vision problems fixed and starting to improve
3. hurt back.
eventually…
4. back not hurt any more
He gets the chance to see if he can contribute.
wrt clubhouse/loyalty, he’s pretty much the Rox’ equivalent to Dimaggio/Williams/Ruth, so no, you don’t push him out.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
by Mondogarage on Jul 21, 2010 10:37 AM MDT up reply actions
this.this.this.this.this...
^4
Ubaldo Jimenez: Your Cy Young awaits in 2010
Brad Hawpe: Get that sweet swing going soon!
Todd and Troy: Get well soon!
Clint Barmes: Do you want to lose your job to Uggla?
QPU Member #4, Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #4, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
wait what wand are you waving to make #4 happen
remember how 2009’s back surgery was the solution to all of our problems? WELP
by Andrew Martin on Jul 21, 2010 10:45 AM MDT up reply actions
who's a player that's the same height as Todd and that we don't give a shit about?
because then back transplant surgeryyyyy
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
Well, it was, in 2009
Surgery not needed this time.
So maybe the rest was the solution.
You’re not even willing to find out.
You really confuse me sometimes…running an actual team, with actual fanbase considerations, profit considerations, etc., ain’t like running a fantasy team. It just ain’t.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
by Mondogarage on Jul 21, 2010 10:48 AM MDT up reply actions
Of course he would, because Iannetta can still be a SABR dream
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
by Mondogarage on Jul 21, 2010 10:51 AM MDT up reply actions
WHOAH HO YOU GOT ME THERE BRO
If Iannetta was also 36 and had a trick back and was posting a .650 OPS I’d say shoot him into the sun
I’m not saying shoot Helton into the sun
I’m saying I expect zilch from him and we we need to be prepared for it
by Andrew Martin on Jul 21, 2010 10:57 AM MDT up reply actions
I don't think we actually disagree here, then
I think it’s pretty clear that Helton’s going to have a pretty short leash to actually perform. 2-4 weeks tops.
And that will impact beyond this season. If he doesn’t perform, I truly think he retires.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
by Mondogarage on Jul 21, 2010 10:59 AM MDT up reply actions
which is how I see it as well
I’m just afraid that reputation will trump performance
by Andrew Martin on Jul 21, 2010 11:25 AM MDT up reply actions
And that is where we disagree
Because I really don’t think Tracy will let it get to that point, if it happens. The window’s gonna be pretty small. In fact, I think Tracy has even said as much.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
by Mondogarage on Jul 21, 2010 11:33 AM MDT up reply actions
It's not based on anything
we’re a young franchise and this is our first time dealing with this situation. Walker was able to make a graceful exit because we were still in the rebuild. Helton, however, is hitting the wall in the absolute thick of the window of competition, and it’s kind of no win for anyone.
by Andrew Martin on Jul 21, 2010 11:35 AM MDT up reply actions
honestly
I think part of the problem is just that we seem to have a pretty slim margin for error.
There are some questions with our rotation, and we have no clue what Tulo is going to do when he gets back.
So even if Tracy doesn’t give Helton the lionshare of playing time but he still lets him play a little longer than he should, well that could be really costly down the line.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
Okay, but if...
….if the rotation continues to have questions, and if Tulo doesn’t perform (and I would bet no one here would advocate benching him if he’s 2-36 when he first gets back), then it doesn’t matter, because with Todd or without, if both of those happen, we’re not playing ball in October.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
by Mondogarage on Jul 21, 2010 11:39 AM MDT up reply actions
True
but I’m trying to minimize risk. Our rotation has been a strength but it might be a little weaker now – but that’s not a death sentence, and Tulo well I don’t know what to say about him. I do think it’s unlikely that he comes back and sucks but who knows, the guy likes to put too much pressure on himself.
But my point was that we have some risk in the rotation and with Tulo, but I think we tolerate it and still make a push – we still have Chacin to patch up the rotation and a few options for 2b/ss, so we could get by, but with Helton in there being sub-par it might be too much…
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
if I could
I’d Ice you right now
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
I do agree with you and if we wer the Dbacks
I would care less. But the next time he comes up in the 2 hole. and fails I will be bummed
It would be worse if he failed in the 3 hole
Ubaldo Jimenez: Your Cy Young awaits in 2010
Brad Hawpe: Get that sweet swing going soon!
Todd and Troy: Get well soon!
Clint Barmes: Do you want to lose your job to Uggla?
QPU Member #4, Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #4, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
yeah, I'm willing to find out
quit putting words in my mouth
I have zero hope, but I’m willing to find out.
If he proves me wrong, great, I’ll eat crow
I strongly believe he will not and I’ll be sad to see that our best player in franchise history will have to hang them up
and I’ll be sadder when he doesn’t and our team begins losing games
by Andrew Martin on Jul 21, 2010 10:59 AM MDT up reply actions
No need to eat Crow
But feel free to nibble Tom Servo’s toes.
I have hope he’ll prove you wrong, but skepticism that he’ll actually do so.
I’ll be sad when he doesn’t and our team loses a few games.
But I also know Tracy won’t keep running him out there and cause “a few games” to turn into 15-20.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
by Mondogarage on Jul 21, 2010 11:01 AM MDT up reply actions
But I also know Tracy won’t keep running him out there and cause "a few games" to turn into 15-20.
How do you know this? I have very little confidence this won’t happen
Rowsdower! But why, Rowsdower?
WHEN CHICKS HAVE HOT FRIENDS AND THERE MIGHT BE MORE THAN ONE HOT FRIEND DUCKS FLY TOGETHER
Denver.SBNation.com
I suspect Todd already has had these conversations
with the powers that be. I’m betting he knows this is very likely his last shot.
Ubaldo Jimenez: Your Cy Young awaits in 2010
Brad Hawpe: Get that sweet swing going soon!
Todd and Troy: Get well soon!
Clint Barmes: Do you want to lose your job to Uggla?
QPU Member #4, Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #4, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
Are you seriously comparing Josh Fogg to Todd Helton???
I super hope you are being purposefully silly here.
Ubaldo Jimenez: Your Cy Young awaits in 2010
Brad Hawpe: Get that sweet swing going soon!
Todd and Troy: Get well soon!
Clint Barmes: Do you want to lose your job to Uggla?
QPU Member #4, Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #4, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
Todd Helton said "I am a Rockie"
Josh Fogg said “I led the Pirates in wins in the last decade somehow but got bounced around from various AAA teams”
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 21, 2010 10:35 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Josh Fogg says, "I started Game 163, we won that game. I had some cache at one point."
Ubaldo Jimenez: Your Cy Young awaits in 2010
Brad Hawpe: Get that sweet swing going soon!
Todd and Troy: Get well soon!
Clint Barmes: Do you want to lose your job to Uggla?
QPU Member #4, Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #4, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
yay so Todd Helton saying "I am a Rockie" means he should go out there and bat below replacement level
by Andrew Martin on Jul 21, 2010 10:41 AM MDT up reply actions
You need to make that a Rockies flag
Ubaldo Jimenez: Your Cy Young awaits in 2010
Brad Hawpe: Get that sweet swing going soon!
Todd and Troy: Get well soon!
Clint Barmes: Do you want to lose your job to Uggla?
QPU Member #4, Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #4, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
USA USA USA USA USA
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
Of course not
His career does entitle him to go out there not and find out if he’s actually capable of batting above replacement level.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
by Mondogarage on Jul 21, 2010 10:49 AM MDT up reply actions
I think RMN is stirring the pot. I don't know if I believe
that he believes entirely what he is saying…
Ubaldo Jimenez: Your Cy Young awaits in 2010
Brad Hawpe: Get that sweet swing going soon!
Todd and Troy: Get well soon!
Clint Barmes: Do you want to lose your job to Uggla?
QPU Member #4, Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #4, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
I hope you're right
There’s certain reasons why people actually still love baseball above other sports (even if the NFL is the bigger moneyspinner), and in an oblique way, things such as seeing whether Todd’s got anything left are related to those reasons.
There’s a reason Ken Burns didn’t do a miniseries called “Football”.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
by Mondogarage on Jul 21, 2010 10:55 AM MDT up reply actions
I hope I'm right too
I’d be greatly disappointed if any Rockies fan thought Todd doesn’t deserve a chance to rebound.
Ubaldo Jimenez: Your Cy Young awaits in 2010
Brad Hawpe: Get that sweet swing going soon!
Todd and Troy: Get well soon!
Clint Barmes: Do you want to lose your job to Uggla?
QPU Member #4, Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #4, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
Ken Burns weirds me out man
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
I like this
feel free to put me into the “more to the game” boat. I want to win, and it kills me that Helton might be holding the team back. But there’s no doubt in my mind that the man deserves a shot to turn it around. Its hard to imagine this team as a credible postseason threat with anyone else (realistic) standing on 1st, anyway.
not explicitly
The rockies have a strong longstanding reputation for loyalty and good clubhouse guys. When was the last time we had a clubhouse fissure? Hurdle is the last one I know of. Tossing Helton to the curb now would be incredibly detrimental to the clubhouse. No one is saying start him 50 more games, production be damned. But he deserves a chance to come back and get a legit shot at proving he isn’t through. That’s worth more than the 0.3 WAR we might lose with him in the last twenty starts he has (if that)
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 21, 2010 11:08 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
not including the PR nightmare that would ensue and the potential loss of revenue
From those who get pissed at the rockies for pushing their lone icon away
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 21, 2010 11:12 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
I'm pretty sure J Q fan
isn’ t under the illusion that Helton is a key piece of this team anymore.
No one thinks he is a KEY piece at the moment
This is about giving an just about the only icon a proper chance after being on the DL.
Ubaldo Jimenez: Your Cy Young awaits in 2010
Brad Hawpe: Get that sweet swing going soon!
Todd and Troy: Get well soon!
Clint Barmes: Do you want to lose your job to Uggla?
QPU Member #4, Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #4, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
Anyone else starting to feel like
this is Jeff Bagwell’s situation all over again?
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
I think more like Mike Lowell
Ubaldo Jimenez: Your Cy Young awaits in 2010
Brad Hawpe: Get that sweet swing going soon!
Todd and Tulo: Unquestioned leaders and ready to rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #4, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
he wasn't the face of the franchise
there’s a lot less loyalty around. He also was never nearly as good as Helton or Bagwell.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
True....I guess I was thinking more
along the loyalty factor.
Ubaldo Jimenez: Your Cy Young awaits in 2010
Brad Hawpe: Get that sweet swing going soon!
Todd and Tulo: Unquestioned leaders and ready to rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #4, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
Yup yup
Good call.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
by Mondogarage on Jul 21, 2010 11:20 AM MDT up reply actions
more or less
but Bagwell’s 2005 > Helton’s 2010
by Andrew Martin on Jul 21, 2010 11:28 AM MDT up reply actions
Yea, that's the one difference
was that Bagwell hit a wall and it was pretty clear. Helton’s been back and forth now for like 4 seasons between .900 OPS and .650.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
Yes
And the fact that he has bounced back and forth is actually a reason to give credence to it being health issues, and not simply being “done”.
Which is not the same thing as saying he can’t stay healthy, that’s another potential issue.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
by Mondogarage on Jul 21, 2010 11:40 AM MDT up reply actions
but we dont really have any guarantee
that even if healthy he’ll be effective anymore…
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
No, we don't have a guarantee
And that’s why real baseball isn’t played with dice, Strat-o-matic cards, or an Xbox.
What we do have, though, is anecdotal evidence that when he is actually healthy, he can play above replacement level.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
by Mondogarage on Jul 21, 2010 12:00 PM MDT up reply actions
problem is we heard for weeks and weeks and weeks
“no he’s fine his back is fine”
“no he’s fine his back is fine”
“no he’s fine his back is fine”
“no he’s fine his back is fine”
“no he’s fine his back is fine”
“he has back tightness”
/DL
by Andrew Martin on Jul 21, 2010 12:04 PM MDT up reply actions
You're assuming that they were lying then..
His back might have actually been fine, and then wasn’t. Why is that not possible?
Ubaldo Jimenez: Blinding hitters with fastballs and smiles
Brad Hawpe: Where are you?
Todd and Tulo: Ready to Rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, NYY Haters Encouragement Grp Member #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
I wouldnt say they were lying
but, maybe his back was fine for day to day activities, or running on a treadmill, or fielding grounders or for any of the tests they do beside actual game time experience….
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
To me that's even worse
if his back really was fine then and he was producing at the level he was, that leaves me very little room for optimism that his return is going to give us something better.
I’m betting on some back issues all along, which became much worse back issues that landed him on the DL. Just a hunch. I also suspect that “some back issues” might be the best case scenario now.
Bazinga!
by Junction Rox on Jul 21, 2010 1:33 PM MDT up reply actions
Anecdotal from who?
Everyone in baseball is absolutely positive about everything until major surgery is required. We had anecdotal evidence for seasons about Mark Prior being healthy and it kept on until he’d get an MRI showing no elbow was left. Anecdotes in baseball are just placebos.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
*Anecdotes on baseball injuries are just placebos
there are other forms of baseball anecdotes (swing and pitch mechanics, for instance) that are useful.
*Anecdotes on baseball injuries are just placebos
there are other forms of baseball anecdotes (swing and pitch mechanics, for instance) that are useful.
fair enough
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
Too bad we dont have a Berkman available
And no, Hawpe is no Berkman
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 21, 2010 11:32 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Nor is Giambi, or Eldred
Ubaldo Jimenez: Your Cy Young awaits in 2010
Brad Hawpe: Get that sweet swing going soon!
Todd and Tulo: Unquestioned leaders and ready to rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #4, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
This is a good
comparison
There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit. ~Al Gallagher, 1971
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson
JFK
and again
I’m not going to bitch about him getting a shot.
I’m going to bitch when it’s totally subpar but not Neifi Perez bad and he has like 1 3-for-5 game with a bomb and wins himself another 10-20 games.
by Andrew Martin on Jul 21, 2010 11:27 AM MDT up reply actions
This is what I don't understand
10 games seems pretty fair to make a judgment.
Ubaldo Jimenez: Your Cy Young awaits in 2010
Brad Hawpe: Get that sweet swing going soon!
Todd and Tulo: Unquestioned leaders and ready to rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #4, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
nono
10 games of “meh”, 1 game of “Pujols”, 10 more games of “meh”
by Andrew Martin on Jul 21, 2010 11:32 AM MDT up reply actions
i wouldnt be happy with that extreme either
But I would still write him in the lineup a good few times more after that “1 game of Pujols” than I would with Spilborghs on the odd chance he is indeed regaining 2009 form. 2009 Helton is better for all involved. I would want to be 100% sure he is done before telling him so. I think the longterm benefits of reaching that conclusion are worth the one or two runs we lose over the couple of extra starts his “game of Pujols” earns him
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 21, 2010 11:48 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
THIS
Ubaldo Jimenez: Your Cy Young awaits in 2010
Brad Hawpe: Get that sweet swing going soon!
Todd and Tulo: Unquestioned leaders and ready to rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #4, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
thought exercise
what if benching Helton and replacing him is the only way we ( and he) can win a World Series?
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
What if Helton coming back
and using his perfect AB process to hit and get on base, is the only way to win a World Series?
This kind of argument could go on forever.
Ubaldo Jimenez: Blinding hitters with fastballs and smiles
Brad Hawpe: Where are you?
Todd and Tulo: Ready to Rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, NYY Haters Encouragement Grp Member #4, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
but we're going to find out about your question
we probably won’t find out about resolution’s question.
And that one is low and outside, Eldred takes it for ball four.
by frightened inmate #2 on Jul 21, 2010 12:02 PM MDT up reply actions
Actually, we're not going to find out about either question
If the Rox win the World Series, it’s not likely to be because we played Helton, or because we didn’t play Helton.
If we don’t win the World Series, it also probably won’t be the case.
You guys gonna blame Helton for us missing the playoffs if, say, he only hits .260 with little power, but our pitching staff pitches to a 4.80 ERA the rest of the year?
Because one of these will actually have a LOT more impact on our chances than the other.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
by Mondogarage on Jul 21, 2010 12:05 PM MDT up reply actions
true, but in the vacuum of this conversation
everyone else hits like they are and pitches like they are
that bodes well for Francis
by Andrew Martin on Jul 21, 2010 12:07 PM MDT up reply actions
The problem with vacuums is...
…they suck.
If everyone pitches like they are right now, then Ubaldo won’t win another game this year and pitch to about a 7 ERA. JLDR will be a complete non contributor. Francis will be okay some days, and a train wreck on others. And we miss the playoffs irrespective of what Helton does.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
by Mondogarage on Jul 21, 2010 12:21 PM MDT up reply actions
Also,
we have better options in-house and even on the trade market for Helton. Also we’ve done pretty well this season with him largely absent, so it would be a pretty solid upgrade.
We don’t have the same for the rotation other than Chacin to fill in and I’m not sure what’s on the trade market but it would either be expensive or just fodder…
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
"Only way" and "guarantee" are two different things
If he’s playing down the line the way he played pre DL-stint, he won’t be playing, it’s that simple.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
by Mondogarage on Jul 21, 2010 12:01 PM MDT up reply actions
agreed
Ubaldo Jimenez: Blinding hitters with fastballs and smiles
Brad Hawpe: Where are you?
Todd and Tulo: Ready to Rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, NYY Haters Encouragement Grp Member #4, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
agreed
Ubaldo Jimenez: Blinding hitters with fastballs and smiles
Brad Hawpe: Where are you?
Todd and Tulo: Ready to Rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, NYY Haters Encouragement Grp Member #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
fine, but there is no situation to prove that
The difference in playing helton for an extra half dozen games wouldn’t create more than a couple runs of difference, especially factoring in defense. If that’s the deciding factor, I would still stand by giving Helton an extended look, because we could have made up those couple runs a couple thousand other ways throughout the season
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 21, 2010 12:05 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
This is probably the most correct thing that's been said
and I’m okay with giving him a chance. I just don’t think Helton will suck enough so that the chance is aborted early and I don’t think he’ll be that great so I think we’ll get stuck with mediocrity longer than an extra half-dozen games.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
Well, then, gosh darnit
other players in the lineup are going to have to hit as well.
Ubaldo Jimenez: Blinding hitters with fastballs and smiles
Brad Hawpe: Where are you?
Todd and Tulo: Ready to Rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, NYY Haters Encouragement Grp Member #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
hell, by that rationale, I should start!
As long as everyone around me is going to hit
by Andrew Martin on Jul 21, 2010 12:32 PM MDT up reply actions
Yo,
I want this team to make the playoffs. Plain and simple, I want everyone else in the lineup to hit and I want the 1b to hit. I’m really skeptical about Helton hitting at an acceptable level. Even if we trade for someone uninspiring who is a little above average at 1b – that might be 1 or 2 wins down the line which might be the difference between forcing a tie breaker or not.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
Also,
the Padres for whatever reason haven’t slowed down, and the Giants have been playing really well lately. I think hanging around and giving Helton x amount of games to “figure stuff out” or to “prove he’s either healthy or done” are mistakes. If this is Helton’s last season, then I want him to get a ring, which I think has a greater probability of being accomplished with him riding the bench. I also don’t think this is the time to be rewarding his legacy with games here and there. He’s been rewarded enough. He’s got a ton of money, the guy is a saint in Colorado, number 17 will never be worn by a Rockie again.
I do think we should handle this in as classy a way as possible but I don’t think keeping him on the DL longer/making him a bench player and handling it in a classy manner are mutually exclusive.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
but what he's saying
he could be 2 for 36 in the first 9, then a two run jack and a based clearing double in game 10, and everyone would say “oh, here’s the helton we expected”
cue up another 2 for 36.
And that one is low and outside, Eldred takes it for ball four.
by frightened inmate #2 on Jul 21, 2010 11:33 AM MDT up reply actions
it's just that
there’s a reasonable amount of time you give everyone when they come back from the DL right? takes people time to get back into the swing of things. Then you tack on a couple of extra games because we don’t have such a clear replacement for Helton and also because he’s Todd friggin Helton. Then if he sucks throughout whatever this time is, but has 1 really awesome game, or evena few multihit games in a row, it’s going to really extend his leash, but it really wouldn’t be surprising if he then resumes playing poorly.
And all of a sudden the trial run becomes much bigger than it was, and the trading deadline has passed, and good replacement options are gone, and the Padres don’t slow down, etc. etc.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
which makes me wonder
why he isn’t doing any rehab starts before coming back
There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit. ~Al Gallagher, 1971
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson
JFK
See our conversations below about the rehab
Ubaldo Jimenez: Blinding hitters with fastballs and smiles
Brad Hawpe: Where are you?
Todd and Tulo: Ready to Rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, NYY Haters Encouragement Grp Member #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
saw those later
thanks
There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit. ~Al Gallagher, 1971
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson
JFK
i suppose i dont understand what youre arguing
It seems you disagree that he deserves more time to prove he is not worthless than Josh Fogg. Or Neifi Perez or Jayson Nix. He certainly does, though I agree with your level of optimism and requisite future planning
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 21, 2010 11:35 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
you are seriously taking this out of context
He deserves SOME time. We don’t have a lot of extra PA to give up to see if Helton needs to hang them up or not.
“Neifi Perez” was cited only to set a low watermark for “worst batter of all time”
by Andrew Martin on Jul 21, 2010 11:37 AM MDT up reply actions
its hard to keep all these arguments in context via mobile
I’m willing to sacrifice 20-25 games of Eldred/Giambi so we can know for sure that we need to move on in 2011.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 21, 2010 11:52 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Irrelevant
Boston and their “fans” came out looking really bad in both circumstances.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
by Mondogarage on Jul 21, 2010 10:28 AM MDT up reply actions
For the record I never said cut Todd loose.
I just wonder if someone has the cajones to tell him he isn’t ready. If in fact he isn’r ready
If in fact he isn't ready, he won't be recalled from the DL
Dugger’s one of the very best trainers in the NL, he’s not about to recommend Todd come back if he’s not ready.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
by Mondogarage on Jul 21, 2010 10:31 AM MDT up reply actions
This
Ubaldo Jimenez: Your Cy Young awaits in 2010
Brad Hawpe: Get that sweet swing going soon!
Todd and Troy: Get well soon!
Clint Barmes: Do you want to lose your job to Uggla?
QPU Member #4, Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #4, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
I question how we can bring him directly back to the big league roster
Is it really out of the question for him to spend a week on a rehab assignment so we can see what he can do under game conditions, even against AA and AAA pitching?
Bazinga!
by Junction Rox on Jul 21, 2010 11:32 AM MDT up reply actions
They've already said they don't want to waste whatever health he has left
in a rehab assignment.
Ubaldo Jimenez: Your Cy Young awaits in 2010
Brad Hawpe: Get that sweet swing going soon!
Todd and Tulo: Unquestioned leaders and ready to rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #4, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
Sadly, I think you're right
Only so many swings left in the back
And also why add a couple more bumpy flights
A lot of players with balky backs actually have more problems with the flying than the playing.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
by Mondogarage on Jul 21, 2010 11:41 AM MDT up reply actions
Well that's encouraging
If traveling to/with Tulsa and playing in 4-5 AA games is really going to mean a significant reduction to the remainder of his career, it may be time to admit that it’s over.
To me it makes a lot more sense to send him out, find out if he’s 100% healed (or as close as he will ever get again), and then either activate him or pursue more treatment while he’s still on the DL. Bringing him off the DL, forcing the assignment of another player, on a purely experimental basis makes no sense at all.
I hate to say it, because I love Todd. But at this point the organization seems to be completely incapable of handling him in a rational manner.
Bazinga!
by Junction Rox on Jul 21, 2010 11:42 AM MDT up reply actions
I don't think this is entirely irrational.
I suspect this is Todd’s last season. If so, then let’s get the best he has left now.
Ubaldo Jimenez: Your Cy Young awaits in 2010
Brad Hawpe: Get that sweet swing going soon!
Todd and Tulo: Unquestioned leaders and ready to rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #4, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
But is he at the best now?
Or does he need to try something else to get into playing shape? That’s what a rehab assignment should help you find out in this case. We aren’t even going to try to find out. It’s just activate him, move out Eldred and hope for the best. Not seeing what he can do on the field before shaking up the roster on the hope that he’s ready to play now (because he looks good in BP, I guess) is not the logical baseball decision. Look at how Tulo’s being handled as an example.
Bazinga!
by Junction Rox on Jul 21, 2010 11:50 AM MDT up reply actions
Tulo's is 10 years younger
and it’s a different injury for a player in a totally different position. I think it makes sense that they are handled differently.
Ubaldo Jimenez: Your Cy Young awaits in 2010
Brad Hawpe: Get that sweet swing going soon!
Todd and Tulo: Unquestioned leaders and ready to rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #4, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
I agree there should be some differences
but I’m not sure how the need for a rehab assignment is one of them.
Tulo has been out and needs to get his timing back. Todd too?
Tulo has a physical injury and they need to make sure it’s healed. Todd too?
Tulo is in good enough overall health to make a plane flight to Tulsa and play 3-4 games that aren’t at the big league level. Todd…. hmmm, I may see the difference. If that’s really the reasoning, then it seems to me that even the front office is admitting that we’re really banking on a miracle here to plan on Todd contributing at the big league level for another 3 1/2 months.
Bazinga!
by Junction Rox on Jul 21, 2010 11:57 AM MDT up reply actions
lol isn't that kind of indicative of his situation?
if we do bring him up we expect him to be good for 3-4 games?
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
10 games out to be enough to figure out his status, I should think.
Ubaldo Jimenez: Your Cy Young awaits in 2010
Brad Hawpe: Get that sweet swing going soon!
Todd and Tulo: Unquestioned leaders and ready to rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #4, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
That'd also be the end of the trading deadline
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
Yep
Ubaldo Jimenez: Your Cy Young awaits in 2010
Brad Hawpe: Get that sweet swing going soon!
Todd and Tulo: Unquestioned leaders and ready to rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #4, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
And then what?
If it doesn’t work after 10 games, then what do they do? DL him again? Keep letting him play and hope it gets better?? DFA him? (And no, they can’t/won’t/shouldn’t/better not do that…)
And if he does have to return to the DL, who replaces him? Would Eldred be an option at that point?
Bazinga!
by Junction Rox on Jul 21, 2010 11:52 AM MDT up reply actions
I don't know about Eldred's options
Todd might very well hang up it up if he can’t recover.
Ubaldo Jimenez: Your Cy Young awaits in 2010
Brad Hawpe: Get that sweet swing going soon!
Todd and Tulo: Unquestioned leaders and ready to rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #4, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
He might
but he might not. It’s not like we’ve been flooded with retirement talk. What if he doesn’t?
Bazinga!
by Junction Rox on Jul 21, 2010 11:58 AM MDT up reply actions
we're a classless organization trying to compete
or a classy organization that wins 83
by Andrew Martin on Jul 21, 2010 12:00 PM MDT up reply actions
Why does it have to be either/or?
Ubaldo Jimenez: Blinding hitters with fastballs and smiles
Brad Hawpe: Where are you?
Todd and Tulo: Ready to Rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, NYY Haters Encouragement Grp Member #4, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
We also didn't hear any talk of him redoing his contract either
Just because we aren’t hearing about it, doesn’t mean it hasn’t been discussed.
Ubaldo Jimenez: Blinding hitters with fastballs and smiles
Brad Hawpe: Where are you?
Todd and Tulo: Ready to Rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, NYY Haters Encouragement Grp Member #4, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
Apparently so.
I still think this is foolish, but many simply feel we’d be waring him out. I don’t really see that as a valid argument, since MLB play is just as likely to do that.
PROJECT LIBRA: Depth / Transactions
by Greg Stanwood on Jul 21, 2010 11:35 AM MDT up reply actions
I agree here
This seems like a pretext for something. If he can’t take some rehab swings, he can’t help us. I mean, is he not going to take batting practice too? He’s either healthy or he is not.
You did make a good argument that they want to see him back in the thick of it before the deadline, to see just how important a 1B acquisition may be
PROJECT LIBRA: Depth / Transactions
by Greg Stanwood on Jul 21, 2010 11:43 AM MDT up reply actions
Also, Helton over Brad Eldred is fairly obvious
If nothing else for late inning defense
We're talking about reasons to skip a rehab assignment, though.
Eldred’s capabilities as an MLB player are far from stable, but it’s not like we’re losing significant performance bonuses every day Eldred is on the roster oiver Helton. That’s no reason to rush him back by itself.
PROJECT LIBRA: Depth / Transactions
by Greg Stanwood on Jul 21, 2010 11:48 AM MDT up reply actions
Sounds like they feel BP is sufficient to assess Helton's viability as a hitter
I guess after 14+ years in the bigs, there’s not much more to be gained in the minors vs. BP
this...and certainly he doesn't need a tuneup playing defense
Ubaldo Jimenez: Your Cy Young awaits in 2010
Brad Hawpe: Get that sweet swing going soon!
Todd and Tulo: Unquestioned leaders and ready to rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #4, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
I have that in my mind
as a real possibility, for sure. Seems to be cutting it awfully close, though, unless we’re looking more for waiver deals.
I'll reserve judgment on his contact ability
but as far as power, even just gap power is concerned he is no longer where an MLB first baseman needs to be.
in some ways yes, in some ways no
We (and he) really need to know by the end of the season whether he has anything left. It would put us in a very bad position this offseason if we don’t upgrade 1b, helton returns “reinvigorated and rested” and flops. So for the future, we need to see him back this season. And August is better than September in that regard. Giambi has stepped it up to the point that helton doesn’t need to start frequently
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 21, 2010 9:08 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
not at all
I’m terrified of another 100PA of .295wOBA performance
by Andrew Martin on Jul 21, 2010 9:31 AM MDT up reply actions
Isn't that what I just wrote in the Rockpile?
The writer formerly known as Jabberwocky
READ and LEARN about the business of baseball at Purple Row Academy
Eschew Obfuscation!
by Jeff Aberle on Jul 21, 2010 10:02 AM MDT up reply actions
No one said he was
This is the same info that we have in both the fanshot, Rockpile, and comments in both. Baseball-only is likely done but dual sport deal very much in play/likely.
by David OhNo on Jul 21, 2010 9:24 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
i dont think anyone thought last night's news diminished our chances of signing him
It has been fairly well known he was interrested in playing football still. This just means it won’t be a baseball only contract
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 21, 2010 9:26 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
You know when you're watching a Nuggets game
And you pray Kenyon Martin misses that first 20 foot jumper he takes, because you know if he makes it you’re going to be seeing it the rest of the game.
That’s how I feel about Melvin Mora. I can’t even enjoy his success when he helps the team because I know it’s just going to lead to More ‘a’ Mora…which will eventually, as Jeff Aberle said, put the Rockies at a serious disadvantage. The thing that irks me about Tracy, besides the platoon micromanagement, is his system for rewarding players and riding hot bats. Seth can hit a walk off home run and not see another at bat for 3 games. Stewart got benched the day after his grand slam against the Cardinals. Smith (again) came into the 7th of that Milwaukee game and single-handedly brought the team back for the win, only to ride pine for 3 consecutive days afterwords (not getting an AB in two of those). Yet, we all know that some players on the team see instant benefits from carrying a hot bat (Mora, Olivo, Fowler). Isn’t this what players hated most about Hurdle? The never knowing where you stand element of walking into the clubhouse before every game?
by Jeff Francis Day on Jul 21, 2010 9:47 AM MDT reply actions
I believe Tracy tells the player in advence what is going on.
In regards to Stewart, the booth knew Mora was playing the next day. Tracy is big on platoon splits. Last night Cargo couldn’t bat so he can’t play. He went with the RH bat instead of the LH bat. If Cargo was healthy you would have had Spilly in left and Mora at third.
In both of your first two examples of players who didn’t play the day after hitting big home runs – lefty starters were on the mound the next day, and for the most part Smith and Stewart don’t play against lefties. I’m pretty sure they’re clear on where they stand on that regard.
I don’t think Tracy has shown any real predilection to play Mora extensively aside from giving him starts in place of Stewart against left handers. Last night was kind of a special case – a lefty on the mound and Gonzalez getting a day off got Mora into the lineup, and he came through. I’ll wait and see if Mora starts the rest of this road trip before I get too concerned.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
Which is kind of my point
At some point, don’t the players believe they’ve earned a start against a lefty? Isn’t it somewhat devastating to know that no matter how well they perform, they’re not going to get that chance? Isn’t it a kick in the balls to know that despite going 4-4, you’re gonna sit the next day while a utility infielder mans your outfield spot? Aren’t these guys major pieces to the future of the team? If so, they need a chance to grow. And historically, they both have shown they are not completely inept at hitting LHP.
by Jeff Francis Day on Jul 21, 2010 10:05 AM MDT up reply actions
Smith is pretty damn bad against lefties. And Stewart hit well against them in an extremely small sample size in 2008 but hasn’t pissed a drop against them in two years.
As for what the players believe and what is devastating or what isn’t – I really don’t care. It’s up to them to be professionals about it. If they need to be coddled, screw ’em.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
by Franchise26 on Jul 21, 2010 10:08 AM MDT up reply actions
and that sets the record for times piss is mentioned in a single rockpile thread!!
there’s nothing we can’t do!
by BringItHome on Jul 21, 2010 10:10 AM MDT up reply actions

"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
by Franchise26 on Jul 21, 2010 10:11 AM MDT up reply actions
so I say "moises why does everything you cook taste so salty"
by Andrew Martin on Jul 21, 2010 10:15 AM MDT up reply actions
did he piss on someone or something?
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
hey, that helped me bat .301 in little league
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
hey man, I gave up baseball to become a rock star
then I gave that up to become a professional blog commenter.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
You're confusing the shower with your bed, no?
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
by Mondogarage on Jul 21, 2010 10:49 AM MDT up reply actions
Pee on my hands in bed?
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
Are you asking for permission?
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
by Mondogarage on Jul 21, 2010 10:58 AM MDT up reply actions
bro stop going all Ken Burns on me
pee on your own hands
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
That's it, I'm calling R.Kelly over to get this straightened out
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
by Mondogarage on Jul 21, 2010 11:01 AM MDT up reply actions
um, this all seems pretty OT to me
Ubaldo Jimenez: Your Cy Young awaits in 2010
Brad Hawpe: Get that sweet swing going soon!
Todd and Troy: Get well soon!
Clint Barmes: Do you want to lose your job to Uggla?
QPU Member #4, Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #4, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
fine
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
do it
call R. Kelly, he’ll know for sure. [baseball, national league, home run, infield fly rule]
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
but if we want a regular starting 3b,
we have to let Stewart learn how to hit lefties better. Same for Smith. Maybe less so because of outfield depth, but I just see value in letting a hot bat try to work through struggles against certain types of pitchers.
And that one is low and outside, Eldred takes it for ball four.
by frightened inmate #2 on Jul 21, 2010 10:14 AM MDT up reply actions
Exactly
At this age, it’s foolish to say that neither player should ever face a lefty. Especially when the righties we have to replace them don’t do anything.
by Jeff Francis Day on Jul 21, 2010 10:16 AM MDT up reply actions
Plus
looking at platoon splits is pointless without regression, meaning seth smith in actuallity is a better hitter vs lhp than his numbers indicate because he only has a hundred or so PA vs lhp.
Cantu bidding war
Angels are interested. Oh no
annnnnnd Nate Robertson DFAd
Rowsdower! But why, Rowsdower?
WHEN CHICKS HAVE HOT FRIENDS AND THERE MIGHT BE MORE THAN ONE HOT FRIEND DUCKS FLY TOGETHER
Denver.SBNation.com
MORAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!
And that one is low and outside, Eldred takes it for ball four.
by frightened inmate #2 on Jul 21, 2010 10:28 AM MDT up reply actions
Hahah....MLBTR discussed him as a trade candidate before
Just goes to show….
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
by Mondogarage on Jul 21, 2010 10:28 AM MDT up reply actions
wow, seriously?
Ubaldo Jimenez: Your Cy Young awaits in 2010
Brad Hawpe: Get that sweet swing going soon!
Todd and Troy: Get well soon!
Clint Barmes: Do you want to lose your job to Uggla?
QPU Member #4, Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #4, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
For laughs...
How Ryan Howard is basically Adam Dunn (just paid a LOT more). Howard is so overrated its ridiculous.
The writer formerly known as Jabberwocky
READ and LEARN about the business of baseball at Purple Row Academy
Eschew Obfuscation!
What? He is so good at everything!
PROJECT LIBRA: Depth / Transactions
by Greg Stanwood on Jul 21, 2010 11:23 AM MDT up reply actions
He gets so many RBIs and hits HRs all the time.
He is the best first base ball. Mike Missanelli says he is the preeminent power hitter in the league, and I called up and agreed with him and he agreed that I agreed with him. It was #^%%#@$ legit!
PROJECT LIBRA: Depth / Transactions
by Greg Stanwood on Jul 21, 2010 11:27 AM MDT up reply actions
I was soooo close to posting that again....
“He agreed that I agreed”
Ubaldo Jimenez: Your Cy Young awaits in 2010
Brad Hawpe: Get that sweet swing going soon!
Todd and Tulo: Unquestioned leaders and ready to rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #4, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
How can RBI's be a meaningless stat? They're on the back of baseball cards!
PROJECT LIBRA: Depth / Transactions
by Greg Stanwood on Jul 21, 2010 11:28 AM MDT up reply actions
"Who are you "F*&^^ing" Jeff Francouer?"
Ubaldo Jimenez: Your Cy Young awaits in 2010
Brad Hawpe: Get that sweet swing going soon!
Todd and Tulo: Unquestioned leaders and ready to rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #4, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
Well now
I would have bet my right arm that this would be the subject of today’s thread. Tracy’s lineup construction may not be predictable, but Purple Row sure as hell is. Only here can a 10-0 win be turned into a bitchfest about how that result was achieved. Oh well, I’m the sucker for even thinking it might be different. I’m nearing the point of actively cheering for bizarre lineups just to watch the histrionics around here. Sometimes its just fun to enjoy a win.
The more interesting issue is Parker. I am not at all a fan of this development. After how the team came through with Matzek last year, though, I’m inclined to grant them a little leash here. But no matter the ultimate result, letting this kid play football is not at all a good situation.
Call it what you want, man. It's a legitimate concern for me so I'm going to express it.
The writer formerly known as Jabberwocky
READ and LEARN about the business of baseball at Purple Row Academy
Eschew Obfuscation!
by Jeff Aberle on Jul 21, 2010 10:47 AM MDT up reply actions
Oh, don't worry
I get that its a concern for you. (Whether or not its “legitimate” is another matter entirely). I don’t think anyone is confused about that fact, or has been for the past year.
But since Tracy is likely to be managing this team for the next several years, and assuming he continues to win at or near the remarkable rate he has so far, it might be worthwhile to come up with some different angles, you know, just to keep it fresh. Perhaps a review of what Francis did differently last night might be enlightening, etc. Or, how this team has started winning despite losing its best player and getting no productivity out of another key piece. I dunno, there are lots of interesting storylines.
And for the record, I was also pretty confused/upset about the lineup last night too. I thought yesterday was a must win. But then I heard about CarGo’s injury. And then I watched the game. And I felt pretty good about the lineup. 10-0 doesn’t happen often for this team on the road, hell that has to be one of the better road performances in the history of this franchise. Sometimes its just fun to enjoy a win..
It does seem interesting
that the points we have chosen to focus on today are that horrible line up that scored ten runs and how Todd Helton could be a dead spot in our roster. Especially considering that Francis had such a great outing last night. I think we lose that game though if the Marlins had started anyone who could pitch at an mlb level. Robertson handed us the game and it looks it cost him his career with the Marlins. The point is we need the best players out there in the field and that doesn’t happen often enough under Tracy. It was a must win and we should have lost. I don’t want to see him throw out those kind of line ups down the stretch in must win situations.
See
I just don’t get the “should have lost” angle. Why? Because the guys aren’t our best players? That argument works long-term if we start this lineup every day. But Any Given Tuesday, you know, our backups can have a great performance. And they did. Assuming “should have” has any place in sports (which is debateable), it should (ahem) be reserved for games like Monday when we did play our “A” linuep and had a lead with 2 outs in the 9th. “Should have” has nothing to do with yesterday — we killed them, flat out, no excuses, no equivocation.
By the logic of some people ( and some former employers)....
Nobody deserves a day off!
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
did you live in the USSR?
/not a serious question
There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit. ~Al Gallagher, 1971
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson
JFK
I stuck up for him
you know /\
|
up |
there.
And that one is low and outside, Eldred takes it for ball four.
by frightened inmate #2 on Jul 21, 2010 10:48 AM MDT up reply actions
Rockies are still looking good in projections...
they are atop BP’s Adjusted Standings and have a 53% playoff probability
The writer formerly known as Jabberwocky
READ and LEARN about the business of baseball at Purple Row Academy
Eschew Obfuscation!
Is that with or without Todd Helton playing 1b?
kiddiiiiiiiinggggg
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
I was looking at the minor league stats for Matt Reynolds
The guy has been lighting it up- is he a potential answer to added strength in the bullpen?
Not right now.
He’ll likely be a September callup. If not, he’ll be purchased for the reserves deadline this December.
PROJECT LIBRA: Depth / Transactions
by Greg Stanwood on Jul 21, 2010 11:38 AM MDT up reply actions
I really like his K to BB ratio
Looks like he’s a better lefty option and Mr. Walks a Lot Morales
Morales himself has gotten off to a decent start down for the Springs.
There is a decent chance that Reynolds and Morales are the two lefties in the pen next season, though weather or not they’re ready to give Reynolds a full time job is up in the air. Morales will be out of options for real this time, and will be there unless he’s traded or hurt.
PROJECT LIBRA: Depth / Transactions
by Greg Stanwood on Jul 21, 2010 11:40 AM MDT up reply actions
lol
whether*
PROJECT LIBRA: Depth / Transactions
by Greg Stanwood on Jul 21, 2010 11:44 AM MDT up reply actions
easy with the ad hominem attacks bro
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
And a legit one.
I appreciate it when people correct my foolish grammatical mistakes I fail to notice them myself.
PROJECT LIBRA: Depth / Transactions
by Greg Stanwood on Jul 21, 2010 11:51 AM MDT up reply actions
You've been Casbah'd
Ubaldo Jimenez: Your Cy Young awaits in 2010
Brad Hawpe: Get that sweet swing going soon!
Todd and Tulo: Unquestioned leaders and ready to rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #4, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
BAN
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
don't you mean ad homonym attack?
Ubaldo Jimenez: Your Cy Young awaits in 2010
Brad Hawpe: Get that sweet swing going soon!
Todd and Tulo: Unquestioned leaders and ready to rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #4, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
nothing new..
I think I have my own reserved spot in said Sar-Chasm
Ubaldo Jimenez: Blinding hitters with fastballs and smiles
Brad Hawpe: Where are you?
Todd and Tulo: Ready to Rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, NYY Haters Encouragement Grp Member #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
He's really nice too
I’ve talked to him a couple times in ST the last couple years and he seems to want to work hard and get up to the bigs to help out where he can. (He doesn’t know what number he wants yet though, Friedrich wants 12).
There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit. ~Al Gallagher, 1971
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson
JFK
i still cannot believe CarGo has a worse wOBA than Giambi
Learn to walk, man!
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 21, 2010 11:56 AM MDT via mobile reply actions
tell me about it
“but dingers n ribbies!”
by Andrew Martin on Jul 21, 2010 11:57 AM MDT up reply actions
I’m going to have to disagree with the majority of you on Tracy’s lineup shifting and Mora here
As Jeff mentions, it was a good decision to sit Cargo (our #3 hitter) because of his finger issue. This means that we had to insert somebody else into that spot by default and the best person for that job last night (other than maybe Giambi and his 1.446 OPS against Robertson) was Mora. I’m not basing this off of last night’s results, I’m basing this off of Mora’s .448 OBP and 1.176 OPS against Roberson going into last night’s game. With that history Jim Tracy had every right to put Mora in the 3 hole and I can’t see why so many people want to crucify him for this. I completely agree that Mora in the lineup on a daily basis is a terrible idea but I completely disagree with the notion that Jim Tracy is going to start him on a consistent basis now because of last night’s performance.
There’s a phrase on PR that many of us Rowbots like to use (and I support); "Play the Best Players". Well last night, Melvin Mora and his 1.176 OPS against Nate Robertson going into the game was one of the best players. The funny thing about the phrase "play the best players" is that the best players can change each night depending on matchups. I feel that sometimes a manager being told to play the best players is like telling someone playing Rock-Paper-Scissors to choose the best weapon. In other words, the matchups matter. Sometimes a Melvin Mora really can be the best option for the 3 hole for just one night.
If we want to get on Jim Tracy for anything about last night’s lineup we should be complaining about Giambi not being in it.
Get well soon Tulo. The Rockies need you.
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #1
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jul 21, 2010 12:11 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
we were
it just so happened that Mora batting 3rd seemed silly
we’re on to helton now
by Andrew Martin on Jul 21, 2010 12:13 PM MDT up reply actions
Well again
If Cargo’s out you have to fill the three spot with someone. Who better than a guy with a career 1.176 OPS against the opposing starter.
Get well soon Tulo. The Rockies need you.
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #1
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jul 21, 2010 12:17 PM MDT up reply actions
until he threw out the runner at 2nd....whaaaaaaaa???
Ubaldo Jimenez: Blinding hitters with fastballs and smiles
Brad Hawpe: Where are you?
Todd and Tulo: Ready to Rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, NYY Haters Encouragement Grp Member #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
/ICPMAGIC.gif
Rowsdower! But why, Rowsdower?
WHEN CHICKS HAVE HOT FRIENDS AND THERE MIGHT BE MORE THAN ONE HOT FRIEND DUCKS FLY TOGETHER
Denver.SBNation.com
how do magnets work?
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
That was awesome
I later said he should play every game at left :)
hahaha.
No.
Rowsdower! But why, Rowsdower?
WHEN CHICKS HAVE HOT FRIENDS AND THERE MIGHT BE MORE THAN ONE HOT FRIEND DUCKS FLY TOGETHER
Denver.SBNation.com
Clearly, you've been hanging out with holly96 far too often lately. Eschew rationality
Ubaldo Jimenez: Blinding hitters with fastballs and smiles
Brad Hawpe: Where are you?
Todd and Tulo: Ready to Rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, NYY Haters Encouragement Grp Member #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
I eschew the word eschew
"If there's a new way....I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time...." Peace Sells....but Who's Buying
Proving that you can be gay and not like Madonna, and rock out to Metal. One step at a time.
Quitter's People United Member # 78
I agree with this eschewing.
Ubaldo Jimenez: Blinding hitters with fastballs and smiles
Brad Hawpe: Where are you?
Todd and Tulo: Ready to Rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, NYY Haters Encouragement Grp Member #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
I see what you eschewed there
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
by Mondogarage on Jul 21, 2010 12:46 PM MDT up reply actions
I only skimmed the thread and I saw a whole lot Mora of "why is Mora in the lineup"
than “why isn’t Giambi in the lineup” but I might have just missed it.
Get well soon Tulo. The Rockies need you.
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #1
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jul 21, 2010 12:48 PM MDT up reply actions
Mora more
I seriously did not mean to do that.
Get well soon Tulo. The Rockies need you.
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #1
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jul 21, 2010 12:49 PM MDT up reply actions
I'm not sure we miss a lot of opportunities to complain about Tracy :)
We did complain about it
I dont expect much from Todd...and he really has been hurting the offense
but you do miss Todd in other ways out there. Giambi, Mora, Hawpe are not exactly going to win a gold glove at 1st and Eldred is ok (hes a giant….GIANT) for what being a great first baseman defensively means anymore.
Who knows. If Todd comes back and is still hitting around the Mendoza line then bench him….no other choice as far as I can see
"If there's a new way....I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time...." Peace Sells....but Who's Buying
Proving that you can be gay and not like Madonna, and rock out to Metal. One step at a time.
Quitter's People United Member # 78
I'm for easing Todd in to pinch hitting and a defensive replacement...
If He’s not ok with that then put him out to pasture.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
I was kind of wondering why no one mentioned this above
Especially since they did during the Ugly Uggla Discussions re: Barmes. I haven’t said anything because I realize the fact that it’s Todd Helton we’re talking about is likely to cloud my rationality, and I did not feel like going there today. I love the Toddfather, he is irreplaceable defensively, but I said myself that 1B is traditionally a hitter’s position.
We are Fangirl. We are Legion.
We cause grown men to hide under their beds until the squealing fades away.
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #Δ
Clint Barmes: Haters gonna hate. (with optional vuvuzela)
I love Todd too...
He should have been doing his fare well tour ala Gywnn. If his back can recover he should seriously consider being a Rusty Staub type professional pinch hitter. I don’t think he could even be a DH now
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
So I was going to ask...
if that last game of the Phillies series was ever rescheduled… but I just looked it up.
Awful scheduling job. September 2nd… right between a game with the Giants and a game with the Padres… ON THE ROAD. Phillies will be flying in from LA on their way back home.
Awful reschedule.
I got nothing.
Find a better date.
There isn’t one.
PROJECT LIBRA: Depth / Transactions
by Greg Stanwood on Jul 21, 2010 12:33 PM MDT up reply actions
I was making the EXACT same joke
^4
Rowsdower! But why, Rowsdower?
WHEN CHICKS HAVE HOT FRIENDS AND THERE MIGHT BE MORE THAN ONE HOT FRIEND DUCKS FLY TOGETHER
Denver.SBNation.com
But it makes a tiny bit of sense...
since the Phils will be playing teams in the west… those other road trips are against teams in the east.
I got nothing.
Uh...
Phillies aren’t anywhere near the West then.
PROJECT LIBRA: Depth / Transactions
by Greg Stanwood on Jul 21, 2010 12:42 PM MDT up reply actions
It's much more unreasonable to make the Phillies fly from Miami to Denver to Philadeplhia...
… than make the Rockies fly from San Diego to Denver to San Francisco
PROJECT LIBRA: Depth / Transactions
by Greg Stanwood on Jul 21, 2010 12:43 PM MDT up reply actions
But it's the Rockies home game
It should be an inconvenience for the Phils, not the Rockies
Get well soon Tulo. The Rockies need you.
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #1
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jul 21, 2010 12:45 PM MDT up reply actions
And exactly why it should have happened that way
- Charlie Manuel!!!
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
by Mondogarage on Jul 21, 2010 12:47 PM MDT up reply actions
August 2nd would have been better for the Rockies
(Screw the Phils)
Get well soon Tulo. The Rockies need you.
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #1
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jul 21, 2010 12:36 PM MDT up reply actions
agree
they already have 3 extra home games, they don’t need any more advantages this year (if you can call this one)
There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit. ~Al Gallagher, 1971
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson
JFK
I don't see how this is an advantage for any team.
PROJECT LIBRA: Depth / Transactions
by Greg Stanwood on Jul 21, 2010 12:44 PM MDT up reply actions
Francis was awesome last night
I don’t know if anyone else brought it up, i couldn’t find it anywhere. It was thrilling to watch him look so good. I’m not sure he can keep it up, but wow he pitched a great game
I was definitely thrilled.
I just knew he would turn it around. It’s not like he forgot how to pitch….just still coming back I think….
Ubaldo Jimenez: Blinding hitters with fastballs and smiles
Brad Hawpe: Where are you?
Todd and Tulo: Ready to Rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, NYY Haters Encouragement Grp Member #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
I hope your right
he looked 2007 Francis and maybe better. I feel like Francis can be up and down even during a good year, There are times when he just doesn’t seem to be able to put it together and then there are nights like last night. If he can string together 4-5 starts like that watch out.
I would love to see this happen.
Especially as Ubaldo is struggling a liitle bit…
Ubaldo Jimenez: Blinding hitters with fastballs and smiles
Brad Hawpe: Where are you?
Todd and Tulo: Ready to Rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, NYY Haters Encouragement Grp Member #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
Ubaldo was in one of my dreams last night.
Somehow I think he was helping save a bunch of us who were trapped in some building. And apparently there was some UST going on with some girl, and when we get out, she went running into his arms.
So basically I dreamed a romance for Ubaldo. Weird.
I'm pretty sure you were channeling
theshiva’s dream…..
Ubaldo Jimenez: Blinding hitters with fastballs and smiles
Brad Hawpe: Where are you?
Todd and Tulo: Ready to Rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, NYY Haters Encouragement Grp Member #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
It was good to see him pitch a gem
And get the run support to get a W out of it. Hopefully that’ll help him turn around.
Was great
The key for Francis is throwing strikes and he sure did that last night. He hit his spots and was ahead of the batters most of the time.
There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit. ~Al Gallagher, 1971
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson
JFK
He has to have his location or he's in big trouble.
If he can’t hit the edges and is having trouble getting the strike zone, he becomes a limp wristed, soft tossing meatball machine because he has to put it in the wheelhouse to get a strike.
Cooler than a polar bear's toenails...
So, about those mound visits by Mattingly last night.
Was Bochy a dillweed to call him out? Was Mattingly an idiot for not realizing?
Ubaldo Jimenez: Blinding hitters with fastballs and smiles
Brad Hawpe: Where are you?
Todd and Tulo: Ready to Rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, NYY Haters Encouragement Grp Member #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
I felt pretty bad for Mattingly, actually.
And while I guess there’s nothing wrong with Bochy pointing it out, it does sort of seem like the Giants won that game on a technicality (though I guess there’s no guarantee that Broxton wouldn’t have done the same thing Sherrill did).
I don't feel bad for him at all
Especially given how the last time he had to manage a game he sent batters up to the plate out of order.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
Same here.
I mean it was more like he was desperately going for the letter of the law, as opposed to the spirit, if you know what I mean.
It’s not like he did it on purpose.
I was somewhat hoping for a brawl. I wonder how many brush back pitches will be thrown today just because.
Oh I did you see the replay of Timmy having the ball slip out of his hand?
Ubaldo Jimenez: Blinding hitters with fastballs and smiles
Brad Hawpe: Where are you?
Todd and Tulo: Ready to Rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, NYY Haters Encouragement Grp Member #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
here you go
http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=10110811
Ubaldo Jimenez: Blinding hitters with fastballs and smiles
Brad Hawpe: Where are you?
Todd and Tulo: Ready to Rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, NYY Haters Encouragement Grp Member #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
Thanks!
That’s pretty hilarious. I love that they included the calls from all the different media. And Casey Blake was like, “Bzuh?”
Timmay's next commercial
“I got yer soap bubble right here!”
4 bars for a buck
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
Timmay's all natural hemp soap
Ubaldo Jimenez: Blinding hitters with fastballs and smiles
Brad Hawpe: Where are you?
Todd and Tulo: Ready to Rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, NYY Haters Encouragement Grp Member #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
Lincecum was like....whaaaaa.....
and he actually chuckled…..
Ubaldo Jimenez: Blinding hitters with fastballs and smiles
Brad Hawpe: Where are you?
Todd and Tulo: Ready to Rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, NYY Haters Encouragement Grp Member #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
Bochy was only a dillweed for one reason
That reason being that Mattingly’s going to actually work harder now to not be an idiot, to our possible detriment.
Mattingly is going to be a horrible in-game manager. I like this.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
I saw the game and didn't like the move...
But if Tracy called another team on it, my opinion would be different.
A bigger question is why Mattingly was in charge instead of Bowa. As a former manager, Bowa would probably not have made the same mistake.
Bochy also called it on Dodger manager Grady Little in ’06. Apparently last night the umpires were not going to enforce the rule until Bochy complained. And Sherrill had to come into the game cold and only got eight pitches to warm up.
the Grady Little call was such BS too
he turned around to say “oh one last thing….” and stepped on the mound again, constituting a second mound visit.
by Andrew Martin on Jul 21, 2010 1:06 PM MDT up reply actions
I liked Bochy when he was with the Padres..
but he seems like he’s gotten more, I dunno, petty since being with the Giants?
Ubaldo Jimenez: Blinding hitters with fastballs and smiles
Brad Hawpe: Where are you?
Todd and Tulo: Ready to Rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, NYY Haters Encouragement Grp Member #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
Blame the stupid rule, not Bochy for using it.
A manager is supposed to do what he can to help his team win.
He can do a lot to help his team lose; but not all that much to help them win beyond putting the best team on the field. This was one of those things.
Things to blame before Bochy: Donne BASEBALL, the Ump, and the stupid rule. It was well played, and worth a shot.
It is a stupid rule to be sure...
Ubaldo Jimenez: Blinding hitters with fastballs and smiles
Brad Hawpe: Where are you?
Todd and Tulo: Ready to Rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, NYY Haters Encouragement Grp Member #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
no it isn't
it’s there to keep managers for stalling for time by making 100 mound visits an inning
by Andrew Martin on Jul 21, 2010 1:13 PM MDT up reply actions
Yes but there is a way to apply a rule
I realize the intention…….
Ubaldo Jimenez: Blinding hitters with fastballs and smiles
Brad Hawpe: Where are you?
Todd and Tulo: Ready to Rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, NYY Haters Encouragement Grp Member #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
most rules of this type are the kinds that don't get called unless there's an appeal
by Andrew Martin on Jul 21, 2010 1:19 PM MDT up reply actions
If it isn't within the rules to give the umpire discretion on this, it should be.
Assuming most umpires have common sense.
It would be helpful...
Ubaldo Jimenez: Blinding hitters with fastballs and smiles
Brad Hawpe: Where are you?
Todd and Tulo: Ready to Rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, NYY Haters Encouragement Grp Member #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
well it's like an appeal play on a sac fly
most umps won’t challenge that unless the other team appeals
by Andrew Martin on Jul 21, 2010 1:22 PM MDT up reply actions
And batting out of order as well...
Umps won’t call it unless opposing manager appeals.
Can umps change the call on those without an appeal?
I wasn’t aware that they could.
All I’m saying is that the ump could have said to Bochy, “You’re purposely trying to take advantage of the letter of the rule, and asking for something that does not agree with the spirit of the rule.”
Also, Donnie Baseball did give instruction to a player on the field. Sometimes positioning is part of a visit to the mound. It’s a close call. Bochy was not a DB on this.
According to what I read...
the home plate umpire (Adrian Johnson) said “No, No” when he saw Mattingly turn around and set foot on the mound a second time. But he would not have enforced the rule if Bochy hadn’t protested.
I don’t know that there’s an enforcement mechanism for the umpires in those situations without an appeal from the opposing manager. if there is, I’ve never seen the umpire unilaterally impose the rule.
Mattingly will never make that mistake again.
But it’s still curious that Bowa wasn’t put in charge when Torre was ejected.
Mattingly wants to manage and the Dodgers are at least interested...
They already no Bowa’s record.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Also, I think (though could be wrong)
that the regular bench coach was also ejected at the same time as Torre.
Not curious...
Mattingly is auditioning for the job
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Because the umps warned both benches.
And then refused to eject the giants pitcher for hitting another batter. The umpires lost control of the game. Johnson should have told Bochy to sit down and shut up.
Can you imagine how much a guy like LaRussa would abuse the situation...
if such a rule didn’t exist?
Yankees/Red Sox
games would last 5-6 hours for just the first 9 innings if this rule wasn’t in place
There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit. ~Al Gallagher, 1971
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson
JFK
So, maybe the real culprit here is James Loney for asking a follow up question.....
Ubaldo Jimenez: Blinding hitters with fastballs and smiles
Brad Hawpe: Where are you?
Todd and Tulo: Ready to Rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, NYY Haters Encouragement Grp Member #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
It's a natural consequence of being a Gint
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
Hot Renck Tweet
“Helton situation being discussed as we speak. Will update when I know”
(lineups probably coming real soon)
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
Also re: Tulo
Tulo plan 5 innings tonight 7 tomorrow pinch hit Tulsa fri. 9 innings back to back sat and sun. Ph Monday. Possible activation July 28
Hot and Renck is this context is dubious
Ubaldo Jimenez: Blinding hitters with fastballs and smiles
Brad Hawpe: Where are you?
Todd and Tulo: Ready to Rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, NYY Haters Encouragement Grp Member #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
"they've decided to take him out back and shoot him"
by Andrew Martin on Jul 21, 2010 2:01 PM MDT up reply actions
ffffffffffffffffffffff
Ubaldo Jimenez: Blinding hitters with fastballs and smiles
Brad Hawpe: Where are you?
Todd and Tulo: Ready to Rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, NYY Haters Encouragement Grp Member #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
That .gif needs an after
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
there's the ticket
Rowsdower! But why, Rowsdower?
WHEN CHICKS HAVE HOT FRIENDS AND THERE MIGHT BE MORE THAN ONE HOT FRIEND DUCKS FLY TOGETHER
Denver.SBNation.com
later, somebody walks in to discover what happened
by Andrew Martin on Jul 21, 2010 2:16 PM MDT up reply actions
funny but
not even close
There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit. ~Al Gallagher, 1971
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson
JFK
Much much older and heavier
Though I can’t live up to 3 bills of greatness
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
wiser too from what I can tell
There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit. ~Al Gallagher, 1971
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson
JFK
Come on bud!
Back in the day, with a perm and some facial surgery? LOL
And about six more inches, ya
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
You'd have to look further down than that...
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
Only if you're a Nickelback fan
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
You see, there's this thing called music....
Few bands put me on lifetilt harder than Nickelback.
Nickel? Hardly worth a penny!
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
I agree with that being
the fake mondo
There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit. ~Al Gallagher, 1971
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson
JFK
Dude
I used that photo on my facebook on doppleganger day.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
he's not activated today
There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit. ~Al Gallagher, 1971
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson
JFK
Did I miss this today or yesterday? From Gammons twitter
Rockies not shopping Ianetta, who can play some 1B if Helton doesn’t come back. Turned down Lowrie-Ianetta from Red Sox
Ubaldo Jimenez: Blinding hitters with fastballs and smiles
Brad Hawpe: Where are you?
Todd and Tulo: Ready to Rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, NYY Haters Encouragement Grp Member #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
Ahh...guess during my travels...well never mind then!
Ubaldo Jimenez: Blinding hitters with fastballs and smiles
Brad Hawpe: Where are you?
Todd and Tulo: Ready to Rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, NYY Haters Encouragement Grp Member #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
Hilarity from Gammons
Jed Lowrie
1. He of the career .685 OPS
2. He of the current 60 day DL
3. He of the career .313 OBA
He’s like Barmes with less power and less defense.
For CDI. A youngish cost controlled catcher with power.
LOL. The Sox have absolutely nothing interesting to us.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
They have Buchholz
Rowsdower! But why, Rowsdower?
WHEN CHICKS HAVE HOT FRIENDS AND THERE MIGHT BE MORE THAN ONE HOT FRIEND DUCKS FLY TOGETHER
Denver.SBNation.com
I did just notice
Lowrie is in the lineup today for the BoSox. So he must be off the 60 day DL. Luckily #1 & 3 are more than enough reasons to not want this stupid trade to happen…
Bazinga!
by Junction Rox on Jul 21, 2010 2:32 PM MDT up reply actions
Well, time to walk to the store..
Catch up with you hipsters later.
Ubaldo Jimenez: Blinding hitters with fastballs and smiles
Brad Hawpe: Where are you?
Todd and Tulo: Ready to Rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, NYY Haters Encouragement Grp Member #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
Lineup
Smith
Herrera
Cargo
Giambino
Hawpe
CDI
Stewie
Barmey
Hammel Time
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
love seeing CDI earn his playing time
Rowsdower! But why, Rowsdower?
WHEN CHICKS HAVE HOT FRIENDS AND THERE MIGHT BE MORE THAN ONE HOT FRIEND DUCKS FLY TOGETHER
Denver.SBNation.com
Me too!
Director of Rockaholic Affairs and Supreme Supplier of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
This is R year!
by prettyinpurple on Jul 21, 2010 2:32 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
I know Giambi's been raking and all
But when does the First Base Experiment begin? One start for Hawpe and none for CDI? It’s sure not going to happen when Todd gets back.
pretty nice lineup
must win today in my eyes…if we lose there is a very good chance we go into Saturday on a 3 game skid
Get better Tulo....time to rally around each other and hang in there until our Mr. everything returns
Troy Tulowitzki: "When people think of the Rockies, I want them to think of a winning organization."
by TuLoRocks2008 on Jul 21, 2010 2:27 PM MDT up reply actions
/generous applause for Jim Tracy
Rowsdower! But why, Rowsdower?
WHEN CHICKS HAVE HOT FRIENDS AND THERE MIGHT BE MORE THAN ONE HOT FRIEND DUCKS FLY TOGETHER
Denver.SBNation.com
Pretty much unanimous support for this lineup apparently
Prepare to be shutout tonight…
Bazinga!
by Junction Rox on Jul 21, 2010 2:33 PM MDT up reply actions
can't wait!
Rowsdower! But why, Rowsdower?
WHEN CHICKS HAVE HOT FRIENDS AND THERE MIGHT BE MORE THAN ONE HOT FRIEND DUCKS FLY TOGETHER
Denver.SBNation.com
Someone will go 0-fer-5 with 7 strikeouts
by Andrew Martin on Jul 21, 2010 2:36 PM MDT up reply actions
SomeoneMora will go 0-fer-5 with 7 strikeouts
Bazinga!
by Junction Rox on Jul 21, 2010 2:37 PM MDT up reply actions
The irony here...
….what if 2-3 of these spots are simply Tracy playing the LOLMATCHUPZ?
Because many Rowbots agree with the names, they don’t care about the logic.
I think it’s a fine lineup.
Though with Nolasco, we may get K’d 14 times…..
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
This is true
Didn’t he set a career high for whiffs against us last time?
Cooler than a polar bear's toenails...
A lot of pitchers have, the last year or two
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
Maybe they are trying something to see if Dex will be missed for a month.
Would they consider sending him down for August to clear room for Tulo???
they still don't
trust him from the left side even if he has teh SPEED.
There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit. ~Al Gallagher, 1971
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson
JFK
/was never comfortable with him from the left
by Andrew Martin on Jul 21, 2010 2:48 PM MDT up reply actions
Why Dex not in lineup...
….swelling in teh back of left arm from yesterday’s HBP
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
uggggh that sucks
(I still stand on my continued concern for Dex from the left)
by Andrew Martin on Jul 21, 2010 2:53 PM MDT up reply actions
He's got a swollen arm.
PROJECT LIBRA: Depth / Transactions
by Greg Stanwood on Jul 21, 2010 3:12 PM MDT up reply actions
Seriously? From what?
Ubaldo Jimenez: Blinding hitters with fastballs and smiles
Brad Hawpe: Where are you?
Todd and Tulo: Ready to Rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, NYY Haters Encouragement Grp Member #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
I thought that nailed him in the back?
Ubaldo Jimenez: Blinding hitters with fastballs and smiles
Brad Hawpe: Where are you?
Todd and Tulo: Ready to Rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, NYY Haters Encouragement Grp Member #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
hmmm well there you go...
Ubaldo Jimenez: Blinding hitters with fastballs and smiles
Brad Hawpe: Where are you?
Todd and Tulo: Ready to Rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, NYY Haters Encouragement Grp Member #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
considering
the way this trip has gone (bizarro world) the least expected Rockie will win the game tonight. Seikcor Og!
This can only mean one thing.
Olivo’s hurt….
Ubaldo Jimenez: Blinding hitters with fastballs and smiles
Brad Hawpe: Where are you?
Todd and Tulo: Ready to Rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, NYY Haters Encouragement Grp Member #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
Or....
Showcasing CDI in advance of a trade for….you guessed it…Jed Lowrie.
.
.
(You thought I was going to say Frank Stallone?)
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
From Renck:
Iannetta playing tonight, Olivo back Thur. Tracy rewarding Iannetta for game-calling as much as anything. Has caught 2 straight shutouts
Wonder what Olivo thinks of
Operation “don’t let him start enough to get his mutual 2011 option”
I can support this
Rowsdower! But why, Rowsdower?
WHEN CHICKS HAVE HOT FRIENDS AND THERE MIGHT BE MORE THAN ONE HOT FRIEND DUCKS FLY TOGETHER
Denver.SBNation.com
no....
it’s that it’ll be a mutual option with enough starts which lets him opt for FA
by Andrew Martin on Jul 21, 2010 3:52 PM MDT up reply actions
right
he starts less games now, we get him for dirt cheap next year too
Rowsdower! But why, Rowsdower?
WHEN CHICKS HAVE HOT FRIENDS AND THERE MIGHT BE MORE THAN ONE HOT FRIEND DUCKS FLY TOGETHER
Denver.SBNation.com
I just think that is some dirty pool
Ubaldo Jimenez: Blinding hitters with fastballs and smiles
Brad Hawpe: Where are you?
Todd and Tulo: Ready to Rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, NYY Haters Encouragement Grp Member #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
It's also keeping him fresh for the playoffs
He’d still get 2/3 of the starts from here on out
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
This I can understand..
Didn’t they do that last year or the year before with a couple of players….
Ubaldo Jimenez: Blinding hitters with fastballs and smiles
Brad Hawpe: Where are you?
Todd and Tulo: Ready to Rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, NYY Haters Encouragement Grp Member #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
Yes, and it's legit (mostly)
I mean, for him to come up just short of the # of starts, he’d really only have to start a small bit less often, %-wise, than he does now.
But seriously, I doubt the team holds him back for that reason. The MLBPA grievance would hurt.
However, if it’s close at the end, and him starting > CDI is not the diff between making the playoffs and not, I’m sure they’ll sit him 2-3 extra games over the last 10 or so.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
and
no one else gets to have him either
There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit. ~Al Gallagher, 1971
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson
JFK
Not that
they don’t want to make the option mutual and give Olivo a way out. We want to hold on to him.
There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit. ~Al Gallagher, 1971
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson
JFK
Also, a bunch more from Renck (and Tracy) on Helton:
Todd Helton will keep working out. Said Tracy, "When it’s right, it’s right.’’ Dex out for the day as I already said. Tracy talking now
Possiblity that Helton could go on rehab now. Tracy said he won’t rule it out. That is a slight change from yesterday.
Tracy said that he needs to see more from Helton to be ready for big league game. At earliest Helton will be back Saturday, could go longer
It’s a delicate situation with Helton. He as to be ready to contribute bc1B have done well in his absence. That’s really what’s at work here
to continue
The Rockies would like Helton to get a 5-6 rehab at-bats before possible activation Sat or Sunday. It’s still being considered/discussed
There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit. ~Al Gallagher, 1971
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson
JFK
Interesing about face on this one....
Ubaldo Jimenez: Blinding hitters with fastballs and smiles
Brad Hawpe: Where are you?
Todd and Tulo: Ready to Rox and roll
Johnny Herrera : DINGERZZZ 2.0
QPU Member #4, NYY Haters Encouragement Grp Member #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
I got a half price ticket offer for games in September!
Cool! It pays to vote for Cargo! Litteraly!
Director of Rockaholic Affairs and Supreme Supplier of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
This is R year!
by prettyinpurple on Jul 21, 2010 5:07 PM MDT via mobile reply actions

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