If I was GM for a day
by R. Wilson on Jul 8, 2010 1:02 PM MDT
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The move I would be trying to make would be dumping the highly paid and underperforming starting pitchers on the Rox. You know Francis and Cook are being paid far to much to be the 4th and 5th starter. Yes I put Chacin ahead of them. Package Francis, Cook and any catcher in the system for Cliff Lee. The salary relief would enable the Rockies to give Lee a long-term contract. And then next year they can use Helton's money to lock up the rest of their young stars. A rotation of Ubaldo, Lee, DLR, Hammel, Chacin would be very solid. Keep Rogers with the big club for long relief and emergency starts. I do not see any holes in this team that would need filled for several years as long as Eldred can fill first base. Make the offer DOD!! Seattle would get 2 starters and a starting catcher. This is more than I have seen mentioned from other teams. And it would not damage the team at all.
Eat. Drink. Be Merry. But the above FanPost does not necessarily reflect the attitudes, opinions, or views of Purple Row's staff (unless, of course, it's written by the staff [and even then, it still might not]).
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The Mariners would not take Cook or Francis, and would ask for a package of our two- three best prospects and possibly a player like Ianetta or Stewart off the big club. Their asking price is absolutely ridiculous, like Ubaldo for Halladay last year.
You need a third team to take on Cook and Francis.
Think of Boston throwing some prosects to Seattle and taking on Cook, Francis and Iannetta. Then maybe we could get Lee.
On another note I would meet what ever they wanted to get Lee. Like R.Wilson said a rotation of Ubaldo, DLR*, Lee*, HAmmel, and Chacin…sweeeeet!!!
We don't have anywhere near the resources to make it happen
And I’m not sure why Boston would want anything to do with Cook and Francis.
The Rockies DO have the resources to do a deal
Without using players on the big league roster. That said, it’s not worth it and should not be our focus. Maybe a Ty Wiggington or even a Dan Uggla makes sense, but we can’t fit all our starters in rotation as is, and our big mid-season rotation acquisition starts tomorrow night against San Diego.
I don't think Rosario is the hitter that Seattle is looking for
And I don’t think the club would be willing to tack on Friedrich or Matzek, which is about what it would take.
I don't really want to give up Rosario for a rental, anyway.
No way would we be able to sign Lee long term. I don’t care how much payroll flexibility we have.
There is a small possibility of them spending more this offseason
But it would be more likely to retain De La Rosa, not go after Lee.
You way underrate all those players then.
Matzek is a top 10-15 prospect in baseball for Law or Goldstein. He could centerpiece any trade. A Rosario-Matzek-Blackmon/Nelson package would more than suffice, but again, not happening.
If I were Mariners GM for a day I would accept this trade, but only because I am actually a Rockies fan and I don’t care that this deal makes absolutely no sense from a Seattle perspective.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
I'm usually pretty respectful of others opinions
but, please do a little research before you post something like this.
by mkorpal on Jul 8, 2010 4:09 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Fanpost like this belong on the Denver Post forums
Not here on Purplerow.
So Umm, Chris Nelson is free.....
Steve Phillips, is that you?
Lets recap….Cook likely has negative trade value at this point, unless we ate most of his 2011 money. Francis is going to be a free agent at the end of the season unless his $7 mm option is picked up. He is coming off major shoulder surgery and has an ERA over five (I know, his FIP is actually good at 3.8ish). Anyone who wants him for next year can probabl sign him to a flyer in the offseason if we decline his option.
Neither one of those guys is going to get you much of anything.
by moomacher on Jul 8, 2010 5:06 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Welcome to Purple Row
stick around a while, read some of the threads and comment in them. We frequently cover topics like this in the daily rockpile. Great to have you around but try to get involved in other activities too.
There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit. ~Al Gallagher, 1971
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson
JFK
What moves would you make?
The title of my post read “GM for a day”. Instead of being critical of my proposal, tell me what you think would work. Seattle will take less than what they are publically stating. Sure the “retail” price on Lee is outrageous but the “wholesale” price is way less. He is walking next year to the highest bidder. I will be sick if all it takes is Upton and a couple of minor leaquers to land a top 5 pitcher. Another strong point I was presenting was the Rox have a problem with Cook and Francis. There is to much payroll tied up with these two for the production seen. How does it end for them? If you could move them for prospects that Seattle would like then that may be one route to get Lee. The point is GET LEE. Another “top prospect” I failed to mention is EYjr. I don’t see any place for him or Ianetta on the big club in the future.
Sorry if I soiled the hallowed ‘Purple Row’. I hate the Post, wish the Rocky was still around.
First off, the Rockies don't particularly need a pitcher
Even one as great as Lee. Middle-infield help is probably the only thing that will be targeted this year prior to the trade deadline, but with the way that Barmes and Herrera have been playing lately, plus Tulo coming back at the end of the month, I wouldn’t be surprised if they didn’t make any moves.
Second, I know you’re new, but that’s exactly why you shouldn’t make a post like this so early in your time here. The fact that Francis and Cook have struggled this year has been discussed quite a lot. Yes they’ve been poor at times. No, neither is going away this year, as they are veterans and are being paid more money than, say, Chacin and have no options like he does. Please spend some time reading articles and especially comments before making a Fanpost. Also, make some comments of your own. This Fanpost would probably have been better off as a comment.
Finally, if you – a Rockies fan – don’t want Cook and Francis in your rotation, why would Seattle? They are going nowhere, and a couple of expensive and poor pitchers don’t gain them anything in future years.
As people have said, please stick around. Peruse the site. Get in some discussions with the community. Hang out in a gamethread. Understand the community before you make a Fanpost, and you’ll get a better reception.
by controlled_slide on Jul 8, 2010 5:22 PM MDT up reply actions
It is also possible
that they get another arm for the bullpen but as you said the move most likely made is that for a middle infielder. I think it will be more interesting to see what our comrades in LA do to make their team better.
There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit. ~Al Gallagher, 1971
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson
JFK
We are winning
Why do we need to make a move. If it ain’t broke, why fix it.
Also, your welcome to post here, but put more thought into it. It’s obvious you think that Cook and Francis are not worth much, so why do you think other teams are going to give us value for them.
I love it when people don't read the Rules and Regulations before posting and then get all defensive and pissy at us when we get on them for not following them
How to use FanPosts:
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- A FanPost should not be your first foray into Purple Row. – ooooh, didn’t stick the landing, he might have to settle for the Bronze
by Andrew Martin on Jul 8, 2010 10:59 PM MDT up reply actions
you know what RMN, **** your fanpost rules and your reply link
we’re all here to read and learn
by purplesocks on Jul 9, 2010 9:26 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
At least this wasn't another rant about how bad Barmes is
by Andrew Martin on Jul 9, 2010 11:10 AM MDT up reply actions
Dude, apparently my my dad came home from the game yesterday ranting about Barmes' defense.
He has a unique knack for finding the negative in everything.
This surprises me because your such an optimist
Do you just always take the opposite stance as your dad when he’s being negative?
Get well soon Tulo. The Rockies need you.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jul 9, 2010 12:45 PM MDT up reply actions
I'm kind of the same way
My dad is known for having the worst temper in my rather large family. It rarely takes much to incite a 30-minute rant….like a Jimmy John’s commercial, or a Chinese restaurant that doesn’t include soup with dinner. Growing up, it scared me. I never blow up in anger. Like never. I’m sure that’s why
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 9, 2010 1:37 PM MDT up reply actions
My dad too
it’s gotten to the point where we won’t watch a game with him. He throws a fit over every tiny misplay or single or whatever like it was a personal slight.
Yes, I’m sure Johnny Herrera meant to bobble that DP ball. Damn him.
by Andrew Martin on Jul 10, 2010 12:34 AM MDT up reply actions
That is my roommate
when it comes to basketball and football. He throws a massive fit when a player on his computer basketball game does something wrong. No one in my house will watch a sport with him.
There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit. ~Al Gallagher, 1971
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson
JFK
And these rules
are meant to avoid conversations similar to the above. However, in the last point “should” is not “must not.” It’s a friendly warning against becoming a meme on PR like blamb did last year.
"No Mission Too Difficult, No Sacrifice Too Great—Duty First" - 1st Infantry Division Motto
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Wow, this proposed trade is like an old Law & Order episode.....
“ripped straight from the headlines”….of a DP comment, that is.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
I'm also sure we can package up Hawpe and Helton and get, maybe Pujols?
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
Well hell, Q would get us Lee, no?
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
You are entitled to this opinion
And you can post it here, but also don’t get defensive if people disagree. If you put your ideas out there you have to be prepared to defend them. Don’t worry about the fanpost snobs, some think you need a lot of street cred to post here but I like to hear the viewpoints of green posters. Sometimes they can see the obvious that the grizzled old vets will miss.
Of course Seattle would never do this deal, but there are deals that they might do that would net the Rockies Cliff Lee, so this is a credible goal, and you are correct to point this out.
Also, your strategy assumes that Helton retires after this year? Because that is the only way they would get the salary relief you speak of. And even then it appears they would only get 6M in 2011, and then 5M in 2012 and 2013. That isn’t much coin to spend on “locking up stars.”
So in summary, thanks for the contribution, welcome to the Row, but Seattle can do better than two average starters at the expensive end of the career curve and a catching prospect.
Yeah...no
The last thing the Mariners want or need is a mediocre sinkerballer who gets a 1 million dollar raise just for being traded, an injury prone left hander who can probably be picked up at a bargain rate in December, and a random catcher.
Do we have the prospects to get Lee? Maybe. But I’d rather keep my Honda permanently than trade it in for 3 months of owning a Ferrari. Especially since I’d have no idea how to get to work after October. And this is a pretty good rotation, all things considered.
Now, if I was DOD, what I would do is at least kick the tires with the Royals on Kila Ka’auhue. Top hitter in the int’l league at AAA this year, the Royals seem to have no idea what the heck to do with him, and he could be a long term solution at 1B rather than this Helton/Giambi/Eldred/Mora/Hawpe/Iannetta/Dinger hodgepodge we’re considering (Hey, Dinger’s tall enough!). I’d give up a Rogers and another decent prospect for him. Wouldn’t pay too much, but it’s worth a shot.
what about Billy Butler
he wouldnt be cheap but hes proven talent and young, or alex gordon. seems to be struggling but maybe a change of scenery would do him well for example JDLR
he's like one of their 3 or 4 good players
I doubt they’d move him
by Andrew Martin on Jul 8, 2010 11:01 PM MDT up reply actions
i acknowledged that he wouldnt be cheap
but he is a great hitter and Right handed
I would enjoy Kila
unless Eldred goes all Olivo on us
that’d be sick
by Andrew Martin on Jul 8, 2010 11:01 PM MDT up reply actions
Thanks
Thanks for the responses and the warmer welcome. I disagree that the Rockies need middle infield help. Barmes and Herrera will do fine platooning at second once Tulo comes back. And once again, it isn’t that I think Cookie and Don’t Call Me Francis aren’t worth much, I just don’t see a need for them after this year. As much as I love the Rockies, I cannot seriously consider them a playoff threat without a more consistent staff. We have been winning lately on unbelievable hitting. How long can that last? Ianetta, EY, McKenry, Smith, Spilly, Cook, Francis are expendable (not as a group!) Move the chess pieces the best you can to reach your objective. LEE LEE LEE!
I would rather trade Hawpe...
then trade either Smith or Spilly.
I agree it would be awesome to have Lee on the team, but don’t see it happening.
Agree we don’t need a IF also. Unless we could get a more consistant second basemen.
the pitching carried the team through most of the first half, they've just struggled lately
we’re going to be getting JDLR back soon. No need to mortgage the future for a 3 month rental, and im usually in favor of trading prospects to win now. Lee will not sign a long term deal here, he is determined to test FA which is one of the reasons the Philies got rid of him.
I still don't see this team
ever trading for a top level pitcher (who is on the downside of his career).
We tried that. It failed. Bad. We have great talent for pitching in the minors right now – no way we trade that away for someone that may or may not work for a playoff push.
"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
just to play devils advocate,
that talent in the minors may flame out, we don’t know how well it will play in the majors. im pretty confident that lee would work in a playoff push, we wouldnt be guaranteed the playoffs but he would definitely help the cause
what would help the cause this year
and moving forward is finding someone to play 1st base. Throwing money and prospects after a pitcher (even though we have one of the best pitching staffs in baseball) isn’t going to help us too much down the road.
"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
if you can prove
Lee is on the downside of his career please tell me
There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit. ~Al Gallagher, 1971
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson
JFK
He is going to be what
32/33 this year. His age is playing against him – and I just don’t believe that the Rockies would be willing to throw the money and prospects after him. And I’m mostly basing that off of history of the rockies going after similar players to Lee who ended up being a bust.
"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
Like Bret Saberhagen?
And I definitely don’t think he’s on the downside of his career. He’s in his prime: he has shown 0 signs of decline, but rather improvement over the last few seasons.
However, he’s definitely a rental.
Yes, I actually do like cricket. I'm Indian.
"We could have had Jesus on the mound and [the Rockies] still would have gotten hits." -Paul Lo Duca
"I mean come on, you can’t be from Nebraska and go to school at CU, I think they take away your overalls or one of your last remaining teeth for that."
Hollidayrain Music
His age is almost negligible
in my opinion because he throws quality strikes and doesn’t walk anyone. I do agree that Rockies history would tell us that the FO will not go for this move because of the possible bust.
I just wanted to see what you could come up with for the downside portion of his career. I like Lee but I don’t want to get him at his current cost for just a rental period. Thank you for playing.
There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit. ~Al Gallagher, 1971
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson
JFK
The only thing I could
come up with was the age issue….which is very weak. I wanted to play along with you more but failed at it.
He would be a very expensive rental – and not one that I think we need to pursue because of the price tag.
"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
agree completely
There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit. ~Al Gallagher, 1971
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson
JFK
what memo?
I saw a lot of comments here, but a memo has not been posted on my works bulletin board yet (not that it will be because I’m the only one here right now)
There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit. ~Al Gallagher, 1971
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson
JFK
If I were GM for a day
I would choose not to mortgage the future of the franchise for a 2 month rental who will be GUARANTEED to leave at season’s end. Trades like this don’t end well very often for the buyer (see Colon, Bartolo and Teixeira, Mark). I feel like the only way we’ll be able to pry away Cliff Lee is some combination of:
Wilin Rosario/Chris Iannetta (more likely Rosario)
Chacin
Throw in another top pitching prospect
The Mariners traded away their top pitching prospect in Phillipe Aumont to get Lee….I have no doubt that they are going to want to be blown away to even consider trading for him. The fact that Justin Smoak is being tossed around as a part of the package from Texas tells you how expensive Cliff is.
Unfortunately, I feel like this will also be a problem with acquiring Uggla.
Honestly, I’m cool with riding this ship for a while and let some pieces get healthy before making big moves. If necessary, we can pull some stuff off in August if we have to…
Yes, I actually do like cricket. I'm Indian.
"We could have had Jesus on the mound and [the Rockies] still would have gotten hits." -Paul Lo Duca
"I mean come on, you can’t be from Nebraska and go to school at CU, I think they take away your overalls or one of your last remaining teeth for that."
Hollidayrain Music
According to ESPN this morning.
Right now the Yankees are the top runner in the Cliff Lee sweepstakes by offering a young catcher Jesus Montero. If we packaged Iannetta and Cook together, I would think that would be enough at this point.
Seth Smith's beard looks on in anticipation.
Not that I think we should push for Lee.
I don’t think Cook is gassed yet and can still improve as the season goes. Francis however is someone who I think we just need to cut our losses on. Thank you for ’07, I hope you can land on a team in the AL not named the Yankees or Red Sox.
Seth Smith's beard looks on in anticipation.
It was a
If we were going to be stupid, we could be stupid this way comment.
Seth Smith's beard looks on in anticipation.
cook has zero trade value, ZERO
come on people
The Yankees don't need Cliff Effing Lee.......ughhhhh! I hope we meet them in the world series and smoke them
Yes, I actually do like cricket. I'm Indian.
"We could have had Jesus on the mound and [the Rockies] still would have gotten hits." -Paul Lo Duca
"I mean come on, you can’t be from Nebraska and go to school at CU, I think they take away your overalls or one of your last remaining teeth for that."
Hollidayrain Music
by Hollidayrain on Jul 9, 2010 10:39 AM MDT up reply actions
Lee to Yankees?
For 3 prospects! Yes Montero is a top prospect in the entire league. But he is only 20.
Its sickening how they can purchase whoever they want to win championships. #1 problem in baseball is the disparity in team payrolls. It makes it sweeter when the rich teams don’t win a title.
Thanks for the debate everyone. Anybody want Oswalt?
Considering what the Stros want fro Oswalt
I will pass. Besides, I’m not that interested in overpaying for pitching. It just isn’t on the priority list right now.
As for Montero, yes, he is only 20, but to have the success at that age is quite good. He had, last year, over 900 OPS while splitting time in A+ and AA. That is pretty good for a 19 year old. Granted, his defense is sub-par, and a move to 1B seems likely. But, there are few questions right now about hit bat. And this isn’t the same as purchasing. They are actually using the talent they have to obtain more. This has less to do about disparity than it does simply adding talent.
You have to factor in retaining whoever the Rich Teams pick up
If we trade away half of 2012’s starters, we’d sure as hell better have the trade target still in 2012. The $$$ teams are going to have that advantage.
by Andrew Martin on Jul 9, 2010 11:42 AM MDT up reply actions
is it just me or does anyone else think the yankees are overpaying?
when i heard it was for montero plus, i laughed AT the yankees
I'm laughing at Texas as it is.
Seattle won the HELL out of their Cliff Lee transactions.
by Andrew Martin on Jul 10, 2010 12:35 AM MDT up reply actions
Especially considering
They also got 3-months of Cy Young performance from Lee as well
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 10, 2010 7:58 AM MDT up reply actions
Why didn't I read this when it was posted?
Amazing.
Just an average guy with exceptional hair. Nothing more, nothing less.
Bear Naked - My thoughts on sports, music, and life.
by Bryan Kilpatrick on Jul 9, 2010 1:00 PM MDT reply actions
I did, and had to delete my reply
Here’s a less personal one: why would a team, with roster and salary implications firmly in mind, trade one excellent pitcher for tow mediocre pitchers who’ll cost more? It’s beyond laughable.
Oh my god. Every time I think of this, the more wtf it gets. R.Wilson, I hope you can read and learn on this site, I really do.
Lee to the Rangers, I guess.
Smoak has struggled a bit this season though—we’ll see if he pans out
Yes, I actually do like cricket. I'm Indian.
"We could have had Jesus on the mound and [the Rockies] still would have gotten hits." -Paul Lo Duca
"I mean come on, you can’t be from Nebraska and go to school at CU, I think they take away your overalls or one of your last remaining teeth for that."
Hollidayrain Music
I would love to see
a post by a pebble-informed poster giving comps within the Rockies system for what the Rangers gave up for Lee. Anyone?
Brad Eldred, Alan Johnson...
no I’m kidding. I’d also like to hear someone chime in on this.
by Andrew Martin on Jul 10, 2010 12:35 AM MDT up reply actions
Tweet from Jayson Stark
One scouting director on Seattle’s pkg for Lee: “Smoak could be a star. Beavan a major disappointment. Other 2 are inventory.”
The “other two” were mysteries to most at Lone Star Ball. It seemed most hadn’t heard of them or knew nothing about them. It seems Seattle is putting everything in the Smoak basket.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 10, 2010 8:05 AM MDT up reply actions
Smoak is higher ranked on prospect lists than Matzek, I believe...
So if Matzek were a hitter, that’s what the Rockies would have traded. Also given the fact that top hitting prospects are safer than top pitching prospects Smoak really is a big piece to lose.
The writer formerly known as Jabberwocky
READ and LEARN about the business of baseball at Purple Row Academy
Eschew Obfuscation!
The Rockies don't have a position player in their system that is comparable to Justin Smoak...not even close, really.
Blake Beavan is kind of Greg Reynolds, but obviously to a lesser degree since Reynolds was the #2 overall pick. Beavan was a first-rounder, though, but I just can’t think of another current Rockies pitching farmhand who fits the bill better.
I have no idea who the other two dudes are. I guess I’ll use the apparently highly-offensive term “organizational filler.”
Just an average guy with exceptional hair. Nothing more, nothing less.
Bear Naked - My thoughts on sports, music, and life.
by Bryan Kilpatrick on Jul 12, 2010 2:04 AM MDT up reply actions
Or "inventory", as scouts say
Really, it isn’t Purple Row that is so offensive and insensitive. That’s just how the industry is.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 12, 2010 8:07 AM MDT up reply actions
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