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Friday Rockpile: Judge Eldred

Friday commentary:

I spent many a post over the last moth desperately trying to persuade our loyal Rowbots that calling up Brad Eldred simply wasn't worth it. In the event that Todd Helton hit the disabled list, I would have expected Chris Nelson to be recalled again. While Nelson doesn't play first, he was already on the roster, a roster that had one space empty that was pretty much reserved for Taylor Buchholz's emergence from the 60 day disabled list, where he currently does not count against the 40 man limit. With Jason Giambi and Melvin Mora providing fragmented but acceptable first base options, Eldred never really crossed my mind as a legitimate option on the roster, particularly with the All Star Break coming up this week.

Now that Helton IS on the DL and Eldred IS up with the team, the status of the analysis must change accordingly. A little bit of important information on Eldred's contract status. He is out of options, for one thing, meaning when he leaves the team, he is designated for assignment, must clear waivers and must also accept outright assignment. Eldred also has less than a full season of major league service time, meaning that even if he were to stay active on the roster through the end of the season, he'd still be under team control next season, allowing us to pay him minimum salary.

The reason this is important is because the minors are somewhat dry of right handed power that figures to experience success off MLB pitcing at this point. Eldred himself may not be an exception; strikeout concerns, little experience, MLB pitching, short doorway in the clubhouse and so forth all represent potential threats to attempting to pull some sort of longevity out of his contributions. Because of this, none of what I say here should be considered an outright endorsement to keep Eldred, especially since we've only seen him in one game so far. If he does reamin with us, however, we will have a right handed power bat and alternative to an ailing Helton. Whether or not we can afford the roster space to keep him, though, is another issue altogether.If Helton returns in two weeks (the front office seems optimistic but I won't believe it until I see it), someone's going to have to go, and it's probably not going to be Giambi or Mora. Further, Taylor Buchholz is going to need that 40 man spot.

Judge Eldred for yourselves

Links after the jump.

Star-divide

According to Joey Nowak at MLB.com, the Rockies will be optioning Esmil Rogers back down to the Sky Sox to make room for Jorge De La Rosa (who doesn't appear to be recognized by SBNation's auto tag system anymore). We've already debated the issue of who should get bumped from the rotation to mostly dead levels of death, but even in the situation where Chacin has to be the loser by default outright as he is this time, I would prefer to leave Rogers in long relief and keep Chacin starting for the Sox. We must not forget that Rogers is running headfirst and out of option years into a rotation of Jimenez, Hammel, Cook, Chacin, and <INSERT LEFTY HERE> in 2011, meaning that barring injury, his future is most likely in trade, waiver claim, or in our bullpen. I'll make my full case below:

1. Rogers has struggled in the starting role this season at both the MLB and AAA levels.

2. Though Chacin is more developed than Rogers, he is still young enough to benefit from regular starting activity at any level. While Chacin is no Franklin Morales in terms of mental breakdown susceptibility and even being the guy that always comments on how much consistency is overrated in this game, I still find myself worried that we're going to squish Chacin into a role that will waste him, whether now or long term.

3. The aforementioned lack of space in the rotation for Rogers, who is stuck at the major league level (that is, if we intend to keep him in our organization) makes now as good a time as any to make a permanent transition to the pen for him. The only argument against this I can see is a possible lower in value for trade moves, but July 31 is not so far removed that Rogers could not be recovered into starting material by any future MLB destination.

Nowak also has notes on the surprisingly pleasant recent contributions from Dexter Fowler and Ian Stewart, as well as Eldred and the first base position as a whole during Helton's absence.

"Tracy has had no qualms about the fact that up to five different players could play first base for the Rockies in the near future. Besides Eldred, who was called up from Colorado Springs on Wednesday, and Giambi, he said Chris Iannetta and Hawpe will take ground balls at first. Melvin Mora has also played five games at first." - Joey Nowak, MLB.com

Time to bring out Tracy's D&D dice and do some 1B roleplaying games of chance.

Carlos Gonzalez finished third in the All Star Final Vote for the NL. While it would have been cool to see another playable Rockie make the team, Joey Votto, who won the vote, probably deserved to make the team over the other candidates. Troy Renck of the Denver Post also comments on the story.

Though I do not have ESPN Insider, MLBTradeRumors suggests that this article from ESPN's Buster Olney discusses the potential trade of Dan Uggla to the Rockies inside the premium section. If that is incorrect, I apologize, and enjoy some trade talk about Adam Dunn other teams mentioned here instead.

No major transactions news from Matt Eddy yet today, as it seems he has fallen off his Thursday schedule once again. Just keep your eyes to the new and improved Project Libra to keep ontop of the organizational moves.

Finally, it an interesting bit of non-news, Fangraphs author Alex Remington has posted a little article about the nature of baseball, addressing some of the things I love and hate about the game. Take a look and see what you think about some of these baseball philosophies.

Poll
What should have been the move made in response to Jorge De La Rosa's activation?
Rogers down, Chacin to the bullpen. The right move was made.
71 votes
Chacin down. He needs to keep starting.
87 votes
Rogers down, Cook or Francis to the bullpen. Money is no object for me.
110 votes
Other
28 votes

296 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 1111 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Comments

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Hi, I don't understand the "money no object" comment in the poll

Whatever we do (other than a trade of a big name), the financials remain the same, no?

by biondino on Jul 9, 2010 7:18 AM MDT reply actions  

I dont think so.

Didn’t we have to purchase the contract of Eldred?

This is R year!

by prettyinpurple on Jul 9, 2010 7:30 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

yeah, but "purchase" is kind of a formality

We “own” Eldred as an organization, so to “buy” his contract, we just kind of trickle some minor league amount of money to the Sky Sox and then we pay Eldred a pro-rated $400,000.

When you are dealing with league-minimum type players, you don’t really worry about the financials. Say we send Eldred down and call up Cole Garner. Eldred likely goes back to a minor-league payscale and then Garner earns the pro-rated $400k. Say we do that 4 times during the season with 4 different minor leaguers. We pay each of them the pro-rated amount of $400k. So if Eldred is up for 1/4 of the season, he’ll earn $100k. If Esmil Rogers, Cole Garner, and Chris Nelson also spend 1/4 of the season (apiece) on the MLB roster, we’ll owe them all $100k. So if you take the 4 AAA players all up for 1/4 of the season apiece, that adds up to 1 whole season, and their pro-rated pay of $100,000 apiece totals up to $400,000, or the major league minimum.

So while technically, they do cost money, no MLB team frets about the league minimum (and whatever transfer fees may be involved) because you’re going to have to pay at LEAST that much money to have anybody on the roster no matter what.

Someone correct me if I’m off-base here.

by Andrew Martin on Jul 9, 2010 9:31 AM MDT up reply actions  

quick question

dont they still make 400k if they are on the 40 man but down in the minors?

by purplesocks on Jul 9, 2010 9:37 AM MDT up reply actions  

not sure

Wolfmarauder has the answer, we discussed this once. I just don’t remember.

Typically they’ll sign split contracts that pay X in the minors and league min in the majors (or more if they’re a borderline veteran)

by Andrew Martin on Jul 9, 2010 9:51 AM MDT up reply actions  

I'm not certain how the system work either, but

I have a hard time believing that any player is making “real” money in minor leagues unless they’re on a contract subsidized by the big league club. There’s just not way a minor league team can afford it. Literally, it’s not even close.

Cooler than a polar bear's toenails...

by The jDub on Jul 9, 2010 9:53 AM MDT up reply actions  

Wow...

that comment was so full of typos that I should be banned on GP…

Cooler than a polar bear's toenails...

by The jDub on Jul 9, 2010 9:55 AM MDT up reply actions  

back in like 2007

Barmes was on a split contract.

I don’t doubt that the MLB club subsidizes somewhat, but there are reasons that minor league clubs do so many ridiculous promotions. They NEED butts in seats or it’s bye bye birdie.

by Andrew Martin on Jul 9, 2010 9:56 AM MDT up reply actions  

No they don't...the minor league salary scale is different (lower).

The writer formerly known as Jabberwocky
READ and LEARN about the business of baseball at Purple Row Academy
Eschew Obfuscation!

by Jeff Aberle on Jul 9, 2010 10:00 AM MDT up reply actions  

It depends on the contract.,

If they have the standard contract for the minimum, team control salary, then they pay scale if they are in the minors reverts to a MUCH smaller amount. However, someone like Manny Corpas, who still has options but has signed an MLB contract worth more money, will not have their pay reduced.

by Greg Stanwood on Jul 9, 2010 11:34 AM MDT up reply actions  

I read it as Cook and Francis carry the highest price tags on the staff

so putting them in the pen would carry very little bang for buck.

Brad Eldred: El ponderoso burrito

by frightened inmate #2 on Jul 9, 2010 7:56 AM MDT up reply actions  

But the money is spent

You aren’t getting it back, you just have to make the best decision going forward. If you allow how much you already spent to force you to make suboptimal decisions going forward THEN you are wasting money. Economic thinking is about going forward, emotional thinking is about looking at what you already spent.

"I am an optimist - it does not seem to be much use being anything else" - W. Churchill

by Rock Oax on Jul 9, 2010 3:22 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

My thought...

Eldred was called up knowing he’d provide a replacement, but if he did get hot, he’d also be a reasonable trade chip (obviously as a throw in).

I really do think this is kind of all leading toward a trade of some sort.

by roxintober on Jul 9, 2010 7:43 AM MDT reply actions  

depending in how long helton is out, itll be tough for eldred to be a trade chip

Unless Helton is out the rest of the year, he would have to convince someone he is the next Carlos Pena or David Ortiz in a month of ABs to add too much value. IMO

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 9, 2010 7:52 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

I've got Insider access...I'll check it out.

Because what’s a Rockpile anymore without a fresh Uggla take?

Cooler than a polar bear's toenails...

by The jDub on Jul 9, 2010 8:15 AM MDT reply actions  

*winks and shoots*

I wonder what it feels like to work in a real police department...
Denver.SBNation.com

by Muzia on Jul 9, 2010 8:35 AM MDT up reply actions  

obviously.

Cooler than a polar bear's toenails...

by The jDub on Jul 9, 2010 8:46 AM MDT up reply actions  

That 2B is Uggy

Seth Smith's beard looks on in anticipation.

by Thnikkaman on Jul 9, 2010 8:47 AM MDT up reply actions  

Quieter?

Yes, I just got here, and I’m not staying. :P

We are Fangirl. We are Legion.
We cause grown men to hide under their beds until the squealing fades away.

by KelseyC on Jul 9, 2010 12:48 PM MDT up reply actions  

Nah...we blowed it up today.

Cooler than a polar bear's toenails...

by The jDub on Jul 9, 2010 12:48 PM MDT up reply actions  

Real good.

Seth Smith's beard looks on in anticipation.

by Thnikkaman on Jul 9, 2010 12:48 PM MDT up reply actions  

That's how we do!

Cooler than a polar bear's toenails...

by The jDub on Jul 9, 2010 12:49 PM MDT up reply actions  

Seth Smith's beard looks on in anticipation.

by Thnikkaman on Jul 9, 2010 12:51 PM MDT up reply actions  

Battle of the Sexes yay

Ubaldo Jimenez: Saving the Collective's Bacon
Brad Hawpe: Will pickup the slack for Tulo's bat
Todd and Troy: Get moving and get well soon
Clint Barmes: Better than Uggla
Quitter's People United Member #4, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy!

by SDcat09 on Jul 9, 2010 12:50 PM MDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I saw that after.

I forgot to mention that I DIDN’T hate Dan Uggla before, but I’m starting to now. :P

We are Fangirl. We are Legion.
We cause grown men to hide under their beds until the squealing fades away.

by KelseyC on Jul 9, 2010 1:19 PM MDT up reply actions  

ditto.

"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)

Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.

My Photography Website

My Photography on Facebook

by Maria M on Jul 9, 2010 1:20 PM MDT up reply actions  

Jorge de la Rosa has never been recognized by SBNation's auto tagging feature

I’m not sure why.

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 9, 2010 8:18 AM MDT via mobile reply actions  

They can't roll their "R's" that well...

not like Alana Rizzo!

Cooler than a polar bear's toenails...

by The jDub on Jul 9, 2010 8:19 AM MDT up reply actions  

Alana does...

so it must be so!

Cooler than a polar bear's toenails...

by The jDub on Jul 9, 2010 9:32 AM MDT up reply actions  

Alana Rizzo...

Great journalist, or greatest journalist?

Discuss!

Ignorance of the American League is a sign of good moral character.

Notorious Hat Liar

"Cheap tacos are rightous!"-My Daughter

by RdRnnr on Jul 9, 2010 9:37 AM MDT up reply actions  

You're joking.

Cooler than a polar bear's toenails...

by The jDub on Jul 9, 2010 9:38 AM MDT up reply actions  

Dang, you caught me!

But Charlie77 is in love, so watch what you say around him! ;-)

Ignorance of the American League is a sign of good moral character.

Notorious Hat Liar

"Cheap tacos are rightous!"-My Daughter

by RdRnnr on Jul 9, 2010 9:46 AM MDT up reply actions  

greatest journalist

EVAR!

"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)

Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.

My Photography Website

My Photography on Facebook

by Maria M on Jul 9, 2010 9:38 AM MDT up reply actions  

I'd rather listen to George Frasier

tell me he used to play for the Yankees for 3 hours straight.

Cooler than a polar bear's toenails...

by The jDub on Jul 9, 2010 9:39 AM MDT up reply actions  

she's greatest something but rules prevent me for saying

she’s there to do exactly what she does, get you guys all hot and bothered and keep watching, and journalism has NOTHING to do with it

by indianrox on Jul 9, 2010 10:22 AM MDT up reply actions  

I don't know about THAT...

she’s not pure sex or anything like Charissa Thompson was…Rizzo doesn’t wear revealing outfits or anything like that. Plus I think she has a fairly extensive journalism background (but don’t quote me on that).

Just an average guy with exceptional hair. Nothing more, nothing less.
Bear Naked - My thoughts on sports, music, and life.

by Bryan Kilpatrick on Jul 9, 2010 10:24 AM MDT up reply actions  

I'd agree...

except I don’t think she’s all that great of a journalist. She does provide occasional insight, but I like her as well as any other pompous sports journalist.

Cooler than a polar bear's toenails...

by The jDub on Jul 9, 2010 10:26 AM MDT up reply actions  

Maybe not, but I sure like watching her

Probably because she seems to actually “get” the sport she is watching. Unlike Frazier… wait, was that out loud?

User name pronounced Air-Ah-Miss Originally from my days in the SCA, became a gamer and forum tag because it is odd and it is a name I like

by Arimaris on Jul 9, 2010 10:26 AM MDT up reply actions  

Touche´

She does seem to be an educated baseball fan/person.

Cooler than a polar bear's toenails...

by The jDub on Jul 9, 2010 10:27 AM MDT up reply actions  

speaking of

where’s she been lately? I don’t remember seeing her at all in the past week, but I haven’t been able to watch all the games either.

Brad Eldred: El ponderoso burrito

by frightened inmate #2 on Jul 9, 2010 10:25 AM MDT up reply actions  

MA in journalism from CU (2003)

I'm starting to get those Rockies goosebumps

by Rawktober on Jul 9, 2010 10:27 AM MDT up reply actions  

hey a Buff

I can get behind her now

I wonder what it feels like to work in a real police department...
Denver.SBNation.com

by Muzia on Jul 9, 2010 10:29 AM MDT up reply actions  

o_O

"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)

Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.

My Photography Website

My Photography on Facebook

by Maria M on Jul 9, 2010 10:29 AM MDT up reply actions  

what?

"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)

Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.

My Photography Website

My Photography on Facebook

by Maria M on Jul 9, 2010 10:34 AM MDT up reply actions  

oh...gotcha.

"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)

Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.

My Photography Website

My Photography on Facebook

by Maria M on Jul 9, 2010 10:38 AM MDT up reply actions  

WHOA

I guess I could say that about Charlie Monfort, being that he’s a Ute alum, but it wouldn’t have the same effect now would it?

Just an average guy with exceptional hair. Nothing more, nothing less.
Bear Naked - My thoughts on sports, music, and life.

by Bryan Kilpatrick on Jul 9, 2010 10:30 AM MDT up reply actions  

Via Olney
The Marlins need to go on a run like the White Sox have had in order to convince the front office to not start selling off parts. If the Marlins decide to sell — and Dan Uggla certainly comes to mind — the Rockies will be ready to talk. Sources say the teams match up well to put together a potential deal. If the Rockies get Uggla, they’ll probably install him at second base until Troy Tulowitzki gets back, and after that they could use him at first base, as well as other spots. Todd Helton just went on the disabled list.

I think this was the article that started all the brewhaha the other day. At least it was what I was referring to on Wednesday when I brought it up. Old news. I don’t think it needs to be rehashed.

Cooler than a polar bear's toenails...

by The jDub on Jul 9, 2010 8:18 AM MDT reply actions  

According to Harold Reynolds on mlb network last night

LeBron going to Miami could save the Marlins, piquing interest in sports in a town that has been flat since the last Heat championship and bridging the gap from now until their new stadium, making the Marlins unlikely to be sellers given their new fanbase.

Yeah, whatever.

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 9, 2010 8:23 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

LeBron to Miami

is also going to help clean up the oil spill in the gulf.

Cooler than a polar bear's toenails...

by The jDub on Jul 9, 2010 8:24 AM MDT up reply actions  

Hi, welcome to the future. San Dimas California 2688 Miami after LeBraon arrives. And I’m telling you it’s great here. The air is clean, the water’s clean, even the dirt, it’s clean. Bowling averages are way up, mini-golf scores are way down. And we have more excellent water slides than any other planet we communicate with. I’m telling you this place is great!

What if the hokey pokey is what it is all about after all????

by FlyAway on Jul 9, 2010 8:32 AM MDT up reply actions  

That's awesome...er...excellent!

Cooler than a polar bear's toenails...

by The jDub on Jul 9, 2010 8:49 AM MDT up reply actions  

Be Excellent to eachother.

And LeBron on Dudes.

Seth Smith's beard looks on in anticipation.

by Thnikkaman on Jul 9, 2010 8:49 AM MDT up reply actions  

So sad...

Keanu at the pinnacle of his career. Hard to top that.

Cooler than a polar bear's toenails...

by The jDub on Jul 9, 2010 8:51 AM MDT up reply actions  

Man, that just makes me miss George Carlin again :(

We are Fangirl. We are Legion.
We cause grown men to hide under their beds until the squealing fades away.

by KelseyC on Jul 9, 2010 12:50 PM MDT up reply actions  

Yea, whatever...

I like Harold Reynolds, but that sounds like a stretch to me also.

What if the hokey pokey is what it is all about after all????

by FlyAway on Jul 9, 2010 8:25 AM MDT up reply actions  

Nice try Harold

New Lebron fans are not the same people willing to stew in their own sweat to watch a Marlins game in August.

I'm starting to get those Rockies goosebumps

by Rawktober on Jul 9, 2010 8:27 AM MDT up reply actions  

Just sounds like he was trying to shoehorn the Lebron circus

into something relevant to baseball.

Brad Eldred: El ponderoso burrito

by frightened inmate #2 on Jul 9, 2010 8:56 AM MDT up reply actions  

Why?

Just because he’s black are you saying he likes basketball????

Cooler than a polar bear's toenails...

by The jDub on Jul 9, 2010 8:57 AM MDT up reply actions  

Well that's part of it

the other part is that the Marlins can stop clearing cap space for LeBron now and actually retain players. Watch out, NL East!

by Andrew Martin on Jul 9, 2010 9:32 AM MDT up reply actions  

Wow, I often like Harold Reynolds, but this is just stupid

LeBron going to Miami has piqued interest in the Heat, and in the NBA, and will have absolutely zero effect one way or the other on the Marlins.

Cleveland Indians attendance didn’t go up as a result of drafting LeBron.

Though I suppose Rockies attendance went up 32% once we drafted Tebow.

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Jul 9, 2010 9:45 AM MDT up reply actions  

sonfoa...

"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)

Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.

My Photography Website

My Photography on Facebook

by Maria M on Jul 9, 2010 9:46 AM MDT up reply actions  

wasn't Tebow drafted in April?

I Think Rockies attendance was up 100% in April over March.

Brad Eldred: El ponderoso burrito

by frightened inmate #2 on Jul 9, 2010 9:47 AM MDT up reply actions  

Divide by zero

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 9, 2010 9:54 AM MDT up reply actions  

We tried that yesterday

Matter. Meet anti.

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Jul 9, 2010 9:58 AM MDT up reply actions  

I'm pretty sure this picture was taken above Cleveland this morning

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 9, 2010 10:12 AM MDT up reply actions  

Then I clearly underestimated Tebow's impact on the Rockies

Tebow = GOLD FOR ALL DENVER FRANCHISES

What’s the Rapids’ attendance been like since the NFL draft?

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Jul 9, 2010 9:58 AM MDT up reply actions  

You could probably graph the attendence for this year...

and see that correlation.

Ignorance of the American League is a sign of good moral character.

Notorious Hat Liar

"Cheap tacos are rightous!"-My Daughter

by RdRnnr on Jul 9, 2010 9:47 AM MDT up reply actions  

Tebow is so good...

that Rockies Spring Training attendence was up!
Rockies overall attendance was up 4 percent and up 11 percent on per-game average per this article.

Ignorance of the American League is a sign of good moral character.

Notorious Hat Liar

"Cheap tacos are rightous!"-My Daughter

by RdRnnr on Jul 9, 2010 10:07 AM MDT up reply actions  

My "Other" Option

Chacin and Rogers to the bullpen and Corpas out. I do not know if he has option or how his big league time effects them. If the Rockies can not send him down than DFA him. I am sure I am in the minority one. I am used to it though. I have been saying for a year that I would keep Barmes as an everyday player rather than a super sub and if a move for an infielder is to be made it is at third base.

What if the hokey pokey is what it is all about after all????

by FlyAway on Jul 9, 2010 8:23 AM MDT reply actions  

Corpas has an option, so a dfa wouldnt be required

I’m sure this was considered, but given their respective appearances Tuesday and Wednesday, unlikely to have happened. Don’t forget how horrible Rogers was in AAA since we last sent him down. He was practically mirroring Corpas’ ineffectiveness, but in the minors.

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 9, 2010 8:28 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

Yes but

Corpas has been ineffective for two and a half years now. OK I will give him streaky over ineffective, but still.

What if the hokey pokey is what it is all about after all????

by FlyAway on Jul 9, 2010 8:33 AM MDT up reply actions  

He was actually one of our top relievers this year

In all but two weeks of work.

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 9, 2010 8:39 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

Like I said streaky.

Watching Corpas pitch is like riding a roller-coaster. He will go through stretches were he is really really good and then turn around and go through equal or longer stretches where he is just brutal. I do not have time right now to go out an look at a bunch of stats and graphs and stuff, but it just seems to me like his valley’s are getting longer and deeper and his hills are getting lower and lower.

I am not about to sit here and criticize the front office for signing him to his current 4 year 8 million dollar contract back in 08. At the time I thought it was a gamble worth taking. However, it just does not seem to be working out.

What if the hokey pokey is what it is all about after all????

by FlyAway on Jul 9, 2010 8:54 AM MDT up reply actions  

I disagree.

His “streakiness” is all luck. He’s had the same pitches for the last two years; a fastball that sinks a little bit and one of the worst sliders I’ve ever seen. When he’s “effective” the line drives are finding leather and the deep flies stop just short of the wall. When he’s ineffective, the hard hit balls fall and runs score. He doesn’t strike anyone out. 07 was great, but the guy’s talent level has dropped so far that I don’t trust him to get big leaguers out consistently.

The best things in life are Tulo dingers, Ubaldo strikeouts, and uh, yeah.

by squalene203 on Jul 9, 2010 11:50 AM MDT up reply actions  

Yankees are close to acquiring Cliff Lee

I figured if Jesus Montero was offered, case closed. Now the Yankees won’t have to surrender draft picks when they sign him to a long contract this offseason, as they were sure to do.

The downfall of this is that Javier Vasquez would be moved, likely to an NL contender. Olney mentions the Padres as a possibility. He may have struggled this year, but you can’t convince me he wouldn’t significantly improve the Padres staff with a move back to the NL AND petco

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 9, 2010 8:33 AM MDT via mobile reply actions  

hey lets trade for Javy Vasquez

also, F*CK THE YANKEES

I wonder what it feels like to work in a real police department...
Denver.SBNation.com

by Muzia on Jul 9, 2010 8:37 AM MDT up reply actions   2 recs

Recced

Purely for the disdain of that abomination of a baseball team in New York.

Seth Smith's beard looks on in anticipation.

by Thnikkaman on Jul 9, 2010 8:51 AM MDT up reply actions  

Here we go

All of the Yankees faces.

Does anyone else think that the LeBron-DWade-Bosh deal is a sign of what would happen if baseball had a salary cap? The same thing happened in hockey (when Anaheim won the cup), and superstars are already gathered onto one roster in baseball. The Yankees are supposedly also looking at Werth, and if you’re Werth why wouldn’t you want to go there?

by deacs on Jul 9, 2010 8:56 AM MDT up reply actions  

The difference between what is going on with the Heat

And the current Yankees is definitely money. Yeah, the heat got 3 stars, but they aren’t going to have the cap space available to get the surrounding cast that they will need unless you expect players to take a pay cut. And the way the Union Works in the NBA (I believe), that becomes difficult.

Now with the Yankees, you have a situation where if you want to make 10Mil a year, and you are worth it, you are likely to get your pay day there. Even if there are 20 other guys on the roster making 10 mil a year. Salary Tax? Well the Yankees don’t care, they have so many sources of income that it doesn’t matter to them.

I guess if I was born in New York and grew up with the Yankees, I would love that they are taking advantage of the system. However, I wasn’t. I’m a Colorado native, and I support the teams from my homeland.

The Ironic thing is that I’m someone who is a big advocate for Capitalism. The rules are in place that let the Yankees do what they do, and they have a financial base that will support it. However, it just feels dirty to me that they can take advantage of the free market talent every year instead of fielding a team of mostly home grown players. I can’t change the rules of the front office in Baseball, and I suppose its good for the league to have a couple of teams that have a large nationwide fan base, but I don’t have to like it.

Oh, and the Yankees SUCK!!!

Seth Smith's beard looks on in anticipation.

by Thnikkaman on Jul 9, 2010 9:05 AM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

I sympathize

In that I too am a big fan of capitalism, and understand it is almost impossible to reconcile keeping baseball fair/interesting, and allowing teams to flourish because they have maximized their possible revenue.

I grew up in NY, but was never a Yankees fan (always Rockies, I was 9). However, I think the parallel between the Heat and the Yankees is apt. Swisher lobbied Sabathia, Sabathia lobbied Teixeira, and on it goes.

The NBA has so many exemptions and exceptions to the salary cap that allow veterans (the supporting cast) to sign for $3-4M. That’s how the Celtics built their team beyond Pierce and Garnett.

by deacs on Jul 9, 2010 9:14 AM MDT up reply actions  

I guess I just really don't know enough about building an NBA roster

but it seems like you don’t need a lot. With those three playing 35 minutes per game, I could play forward and they’d probably make the playoffs.

Baseball, you just need a lot more parts. More so if the bulk of the payroll is in your starting pitching. Sounds like the Heat have been planning this for years, so they’ll have a window. Its not as if they can just dole out 3 more $100 million contracts in 4-5 years.

Brad Eldred: El ponderoso burrito

by frightened inmate #2 on Jul 9, 2010 9:18 AM MDT up reply actions  

so is that collusion on the Heat's part or the players' parts?

And is it unethical at any rate?

Brad Eldred: El ponderoso burrito

by frightened inmate #2 on Jul 9, 2010 9:28 AM MDT up reply actions  

It'd be collusion if the Heat were involved

But the rumor is that during the ’07 or ’08 World Championships, the four of them made a pact to play together for whoever had the cap space.

by deacs on Jul 9, 2010 9:30 AM MDT up reply actions  

basically destroying the league as a competitive entity

I wonder what it feels like to work in a real police department...
Denver.SBNation.com

by Muzia on Jul 9, 2010 9:33 AM MDT up reply actions  

Who cares...

They still send like half the league to the playoffs anyway. Everyone’s a winner!

Cooler than a polar bear's toenails...

by The jDub on Jul 9, 2010 9:35 AM MDT up reply actions  

nothing like sweeps through the first 2 rounds!

I wonder what it feels like to work in a real police department...
Denver.SBNation.com

by Muzia on Jul 9, 2010 9:36 AM MDT up reply actions  

Sweeps help...

since they expanded the first round to 7 games.

Cooler than a polar bear's toenails...

by The jDub on Jul 9, 2010 9:37 AM MDT up reply actions  

And team Captain Melo pouts in the corner

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 9, 2010 9:35 AM MDT up reply actions  

Did you want me to say Gerry McNamara?

Joking. But remember when Melo threw the ball up in the air as the time expired (instead of holding on to it)? That’s when I knew there was something wrong with him.

by deacs on Jul 9, 2010 10:10 AM MDT up reply actions  

I do remember that

It wasn’t the championship game. And yes, it was silly. But there are a lot of times players would be better off throwing the ball in the air for the last 3 seconds instead of risking fate at the free throw line.

by Jeff Francis Day on Jul 9, 2010 12:46 PM MDT up reply actions  

One of the problems with a salary cap in baseball is that it would greatly enhance the market for younger plays, and further crunches the market for the Jermaine Dyes of the world.

That’s why, without significant changes to the arbitration process, I don’t think the MLBPA would agree to a cap. More than anything, they want to keep their dues-paying membership high. Keep older, high-paid players on rosters for as long as possible keeps means more dues coming in. So, from the MLBPA’s perspective, a cap leaves you with:

a) Greater reliance on low-cost, young minor leaguers to fill out rosters,
b) Further reduction in salaries for aging veterans
c) Less money to pay the Pujolses and Sabathias.

None of those are good from a union’s perspective. If a cap is imposed and the same pay structure stays in place, their influence is greatly diminished (until the next CBA). Not that I think it’d be a bad thing.

Also, is it just a ML roster cap, or is there a cap for international signings? An organizational cap for major and minor leagues?

From a fan’s perspective, I don’t see the cap changing much about baseball. And, it further increases the possibility that 28 and 29-year old stars will take a short-term deal for less money to play somewhere for a championship.

by deacs on Jul 9, 2010 9:29 AM MDT up reply actions  

I sort of agree

but the Yankees aren’t ALL FAs

Jeter is homegrown, as are Gardner, Posada, Rivera, Pettitte, Cano, Cervelli, Miranda, and other key players.

by Andrew Martin on Jul 9, 2010 9:47 AM MDT up reply actions  

so like 3 guys under the age of 27

I wonder what it feels like to work in a real police department...
Denver.SBNation.com

by Muzia on Jul 9, 2010 9:48 AM MDT up reply actions  

not the point

Posada, Pettite, Jeter, Rivera were all invaluable in their runs of dominance 90s-early 2000s.

You’ll be hard pressed to find teams like the Rays and Rockies who are nearly entirely homegrown AND in contention.

by Andrew Martin on Jul 9, 2010 9:52 AM MDT up reply actions  

yeah but using those guys as an example of current organizational development is not a solid point

you’re talking about 12 years ago. Right now, they do very little in house development. A prospect drafted by the Yanks who plays in the big leagues knows the only way he plays in Yankee Stadium is in the visiting dugout

I wonder what it feels like to work in a real police department...
Denver.SBNation.com

by Muzia on Jul 9, 2010 9:54 AM MDT up reply actions  

okay.

so they have 4 players they developed themselves. 4

I wonder what it feels like to work in a real police department...
Denver.SBNation.com

by Muzia on Jul 9, 2010 9:58 AM MDT up reply actions  

It's not just players they've developed and kept

the good players they’ve traded: Kennedy, Austin Jackson, Phil Coke, Ross Ohlendorf, Karstens, Tabata, Dan McCutchen, etc.

All of them allowed the Yankees to trade for impending FAs or other players that improved their roster.

They’ve developed a ton of talent on other teams’ rosters right now.

by deacs on Jul 9, 2010 10:03 AM MDT up reply actions  

Are you kidding me?

Those players as a group suck. That’s developing mediocrity. Really, who do you think the five best players are that the Yankees have developed in the last 10 years?

Get well soon Tulo. The Rockies need you.

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jul 9, 2010 10:20 AM MDT up reply actions  

This is true

See, so many of the Yanks “ZOMG huge hyped prospects!” over the last 10 years have actually been mediocre or flameouts.

Cano a big exception of course. Ohlendorf? Kennedy? Really?

Most of those names are nothing more than complementary pieces, at best. The Yanks really haven’t developed much in terms of real MLB upper echelon talent (Cano aside, and potentially Hughes) since the Jeter/Pettite/Rivera/Posada days.

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Jul 9, 2010 10:24 AM MDT up reply actions  

It doesn't confuse me at all

ESPN Baseball Tonight + anything ZOMG YANKEEZ = made up truths way out of proportion to actual truths

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Jul 9, 2010 10:34 AM MDT up reply actions  

Right, right, but some owners....

…..are really dumb enough, baseball-wise, and overrule their scouts, GM types.

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Jul 9, 2010 10:40 AM MDT up reply actions  

Al Davis

owns a baseball team?

Cooler than a polar bear's toenails...

by The jDub on Jul 9, 2010 10:41 AM MDT up reply actions  

this makes me cry

I wonder what it feels like to work in a real police department...
Denver.SBNation.com

by Muzia on Jul 9, 2010 10:42 AM MDT up reply actions  

Me too, since I was an O's fan as a kid

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Jul 9, 2010 10:45 AM MDT up reply actions  

Fair enough.

Just an average guy with exceptional hair. Nothing more, nothing less.
Bear Naked - My thoughts on sports, music, and life.

by Bryan Kilpatrick on Jul 9, 2010 10:43 AM MDT up reply actions  

which is kind of sad

but now that Brian Cashman is actually getting some leeway to work, the Yankees are gonna be scary good

by Andrew Martin on Jul 9, 2010 10:41 AM MDT up reply actions  

Yes, yes

But it won’t be mostly on the backs of their own scouting/development, zing!

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Jul 9, 2010 10:46 AM MDT up reply actions  

you never know

the Yankees aren’t idiots anymore

they know how to flex their checkbook

(does anyone remember the VISA ad where Joe Torre is encouraging someone in an arm cast to try and perform or something and it’s Steinbrenner with a checkbook?)

by Andrew Martin on Jul 9, 2010 10:50 AM MDT up reply actions  

Other prospects/young players given up since 2003:

Ted Lilly, Nick Johnson, Juan Rivera, Alfonso Soriano, Dioner Navarro, Carlos Monastrios, Tyler Clippard, Arodys Vizcaino.

There aren’t any stars (except maybe Soriano), but there was enough potential to trade for some very good players, and there were a lot of productive season out of that group and the others.

by deacs on Jul 9, 2010 10:39 AM MDT up reply actions  

I gotta come clean...

I’ve never even heard of that last guy.

Just an average guy with exceptional hair. Nothing more, nothing less.
Bear Naked - My thoughts on sports, music, and life.

by Bryan Kilpatrick on Jul 9, 2010 10:40 AM MDT up reply actions  

this guy here is dead.

Brad Eldred: El ponderoso burrito

by frightened inmate #2 on Jul 9, 2010 10:41 AM MDT up reply actions  

Hahaha

Just an average guy with exceptional hair. Nothing more, nothing less.
Bear Naked - My thoughts on sports, music, and life.

by Bryan Kilpatrick on Jul 9, 2010 10:41 AM MDT up reply actions  

the centerpiece of the Javy Vasquez trade

21 year old fireballer I think

I wonder what it feels like to work in a real police department...
Denver.SBNation.com

by Muzia on Jul 9, 2010 10:41 AM MDT up reply actions  

Neither have I

And Clippard? He’s had what so far, one productive half-season?

Lilly was not a Yankees’ drafttee, and in fact first reached the majors before joining their system. I think you’re starting to reach a bit in supporting an argument that the Yankees have actually developed a lot of real major league level talent.

Sure, a few guys above replacement players.

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Jul 9, 2010 10:43 AM MDT up reply actions  

Whatever, the point is not about whether you can build a good team

from the players they traded away in the last ten years. It’s whether other teams thought players were good enough to give up real talent for.

Yeah, Lilly is my bad. Sorry.

by deacs on Jul 9, 2010 10:49 AM MDT up reply actions  

I think we're actually making different points here

Yeah, some other teams think some players in the Yankees system are good enough to trade for.

But the Yankees’ actual development of players talented enough to build a franchise around is woefully lacking.

The two aren’t mutually exclusive.

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Jul 9, 2010 10:53 AM MDT up reply actions  

In making the latter comment

you’re overlooking 1996-2000, and Cano, Gardner, Hughes, Joba, Cervelli, Kennedy, Jackson. Not all stars, but good enough to play for most clubs.

Their development is good, not the best, but good. The players they keep: generally good. The players they trade away: doesn’t matter for the purposes of the argument, except to say they were good enough at one point to be included in a trade for realized talent.

by deacs on Jul 9, 2010 10:57 AM MDT up reply actions  

You couldn't build a cheap core from:

Cano, Joba, Hughes, Kennedy, Cervelli, Montero/Romine, Gardner, Jackson? Add in the 96-00 core: Jeter, Posada, Mo, Pettitte, and you pretty much have an entire major league roster of home grown talent.

Plus some good bullpen pieces, and a lot of backup catching.

by deacs on Jul 9, 2010 11:05 AM MDT up reply actions  

We're talking post 96-00 core

“Cano, Joba, Hughes, Kennedy, Cervelli, Montero/Romine, Gardner, Jackson” would not beat what the Rockies/Twins/Braves and probably a couple others have developed in the last decade.

The point is that the Yankees have not actually developed top level talent since 96-00.

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Jul 9, 2010 11:12 AM MDT up reply actions  

You could build a very nice core from Rockies players, too

I’m not saying any of this is exclusive to the Yankees. I’m just saying there are few clubs who have produced enough above average talent to build a real team, and the Yankees are one of them.

Despite the big prospects that turned out to be duds, which were mostly traded for useful parts, there is still enough production over the last ten years to build 2/3 of a very good roster.

by deacs on Jul 9, 2010 11:08 AM MDT up reply actions  

No disrespect,

you make some good points, but you’re myopic in your bias against the Yankees.

Are you going to deny the last point? Or that every system has stars, duds, and filler?

I’m sure the Yankees have had lots of overhyped prospects, but that’s not the point I’m making. They capitalized on the potential value of those prospects, and kept producing more. It’s built into the current roster construction as much as signing expensive FAs.

by deacs on Jul 9, 2010 11:14 AM MDT up reply actions  

Well, almost every system has stars, duds, and filler

No doubt.

But the Yankees’ system has not nearly as many stars as what is hyped. The fact that Cashman can count on about a half dozen stupid owners/GMs to continually take the filler off his hands is not an endorsement of the Yankees system.

And with that, I really do have to get to work.

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Jul 9, 2010 11:17 AM MDT up reply actions  

Who is this magic hyper?

Other teams trading quality players for dud prospects is not the same as some jerk off on ESPN raving about Tabata even though he’s 45 years old.

As I said below, I agree with you to a certain extent.

by deacs on Jul 9, 2010 11:19 AM MDT up reply actions  

It not that I'm going to deny the last point

It’s that we’ve been over it already and I just don’t think the Yankees could have produced a good core with the talent they have produced in the last decade. Their pitching would be an atrocity (minus Hughes) and their lineup would be mediocre at best. The core of that team is high priced players, not young prospects, and there’s no way around that for me.

To say the Yankees have produced above average talent in the last ten years is asinine to me and since we’ve been going around in circles with this I don’t think it’s beneficial to discuss any further.

Get well soon Tulo. The Rockies need you.

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jul 9, 2010 11:30 AM MDT up reply actions  

If you built a team around the volume that makes up

any minor league system, it’d probably suck. But that’s not the point!

The point is they were good enough at the time to trade for useful pieces. Cashman has a history of not trading the most useful players (though I think he could missed one in Jackson).

by deacs on Jul 9, 2010 10:43 AM MDT up reply actions  

If you built a team around the volume...

that makes up systems like the Rockies’, Twins’, Braves’, etc., they’d be pretty damn good. And a hell of a lot better than the Yankees, if they built in the same fashion.

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Jul 9, 2010 10:44 AM MDT up reply actions  

You're conflating the sources of talent

If you took Cano, Montero, Gardner, Jackson, Hughes, Joba, and Kennedy, that’d be a pretty good core.

You can’t just use the players traded away from the Yankees; just like the players traded away from the Twins, Braves, Rockies etc wouldn’t be good either.

by deacs on Jul 9, 2010 10:46 AM MDT up reply actions  

If you had a team where Kennedy was the #2 starter

It wouldn’t be very good

Get well soon Tulo. The Rockies need you.

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jul 9, 2010 10:50 AM MDT up reply actions  

Great.

I think my point has been shattered into a thousand comments.

It’s not about how good the players traded by the Yankees are; it’s about how good the players they got are and how good the players they kept are.

Gotsta work now.

by deacs on Jul 9, 2010 10:52 AM MDT up reply actions  

Gotsta work now, too

That was fun.

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Jul 9, 2010 10:56 AM MDT up reply actions  

Not a bad core, but nowhere near

what they developed in the mid 90s. Nowhere near. And not as good as the Twins, Braves, and Rockies have been with the talent they’ve actually developed and kept.

Sure, the Yanks are good with Cano, Gardner, Hughes, Joba, etc., but none of them are the actual foundation for the reasons for the Yanks being so good. Rather, it’s CC/Jeter/Rivera, etc. (AGain, Cano excepted, and Hughes pretty much excepted).

In the case of the other teams, they’re good largely because of their home grown developed talent, and the players brought in have been the complementary pieces, not vice-versa.

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Jul 9, 2010 10:56 AM MDT up reply actions  

Wait

So you can’t count Jeter, Rivera or Pettite because they’ve been Yankees for too long? Developing hall of fame players is a strike against them? They don’t need all the other junk because those guys have been so good for so long.

by deacs on Jul 9, 2010 11:06 AM MDT up reply actions  

No, I'm saying...

The Yankees haven’t developed much top level talent since then.

My whole argument is that the Yanks have no choice but to overpay for top talent now, because what they’ve developed the last ten years wouldn’t win squat in terms of playoff quality teams. All they’ve developed SINCE 2000 is Cano, Hughes, and a few complementary pieces. Not nearly enough to actually field a playoff quality roster.

Unlike the other teams I’ve been referring to. The Yankees’ ability to develop players has fallen off quite a bit SINCE Jeter/Rivera/Posada/Pettitte.

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Jul 9, 2010 11:14 AM MDT up reply actions  

I agree to a certain extent

but Hughes, Cano and Joba probably count as top talent. Gardner is above average at worst. And Jackson, Kennedy and Tabata aren’t junk, and could be very good.

I also think the Yankees are near maxed out, and if they’re not maxed out, the combination of heavy obligations for the next 5-6 years, plus teams’ locking up their young players before arbitration is through will end the Yankees current greatness in 2-3 years.

Ok, truce with Mondo?

by deacs on Jul 9, 2010 11:18 AM MDT up reply actions  

Austin Jackson and Kennedy are rookies who show a lot of promise. Coke is a good reliever, and Tabata will probably be a better than replacement-level OF.

Way to cherry pick the dumpsters of a broad illustration.

by deacs on Jul 9, 2010 10:29 AM MDT up reply actions  

"better than replacement player"

Isn’t exactly a ringing endorsement of a farm system.

And good relievers, though they don’t grow on trees necessarily, are again, not exactly the foundation of an argument that a team’s really really good at developing their own talent.

And your post below is exactly what proves my point. False hype selling Yanks’ prospects as being better than they actually are.

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Jul 9, 2010 10:36 AM MDT up reply actions  

But that's the point

ESPN wasn’t hyping up Karstens or Tabata. Lots of people were talking about how marginal they are.

It’s that teams thought enough of the Yankees’ minor leaguers to offer good players in exchange.

by deacs on Jul 9, 2010 10:40 AM MDT up reply actions  

It's not about how good the Yankees Prospects! turned out to be

It’s about other teams thinking the prospects were good enough to trade for, in exchange for something the Yankees wanted for a playoff run.

by deacs on Jul 9, 2010 10:35 AM MDT up reply actions  

It's true.

I hate the Yankees, but organizations who are truly run well have good scouting departments that actually do the work, not just buy into hype.

Just an average guy with exceptional hair. Nothing more, nothing less.
Bear Naked - My thoughts on sports, music, and life.

by Bryan Kilpatrick on Jul 9, 2010 10:36 AM MDT up reply actions  

And that's why you don't see the Yanks....

….pawning off their truly overhyped prospects on teams like the Rockies and Twins. Instead, they go to ZOMG D’backs!

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Jul 9, 2010 10:39 AM MDT up reply actions  

Yet the Twins would have taken

Phil Hughes and Melky Cabrera for Santana.

by deacs on Jul 9, 2010 10:41 AM MDT up reply actions  

Hughes is actually good though

I wonder what it feels like to work in a real police department...
Denver.SBNation.com

by Muzia on Jul 9, 2010 10:42 AM MDT up reply actions  

This

Hughes is actually good.

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Jul 9, 2010 10:45 AM MDT up reply actions  

They didn’t know that back then. It was still one 7 innings of no-hit game and all hype!

by deacs on Jul 9, 2010 10:49 AM MDT up reply actions  

So you're saying the Twins would have bought into the overhype?

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 9, 2010 10:42 AM MDT up reply actions  

And seeing what Santana has done since,

I can’t blame them.

Just an average guy with exceptional hair. Nothing more, nothing less.
Bear Naked - My thoughts on sports, music, and life.

by Bryan Kilpatrick on Jul 9, 2010 10:42 AM MDT up reply actions  

At the time,

nobody thought that was the best the Twins could do.

And instead of buying into the Yankees Prospects! they bought even shittier Mets Prospects!?. One of them has been released, and one has been traded.

by deacs on Jul 9, 2010 10:44 AM MDT up reply actions  

Yeah, that was a rough deal.

Just an average guy with exceptional hair. Nothing more, nothing less.
Bear Naked - My thoughts on sports, music, and life.

by Bryan Kilpatrick on Jul 9, 2010 10:45 AM MDT up reply actions  

They'd have been better off

with the Yankees hype. At least they’dhave something to show for it.

by deacs on Jul 9, 2010 10:46 AM MDT up reply actions  

But, Yankees hype has created a problem, regardless if the right trade was made there or not.

Other teams just need to step up their game. Most are on the right track by starting to develop from within, and not trade their best prospects for high-priced talent.

Just an average guy with exceptional hair. Nothing more, nothing less.
Bear Naked - My thoughts on sports, music, and life.

by Bryan Kilpatrick on Jul 9, 2010 10:48 AM MDT up reply actions  

Other teams are stupid

Except the Rays, Twins, Rockies, maybe Braves and a few others.

That they got suckered is a problem for their President/Owner, not the Yankees.

No one wants to hold the other teams accountable for making crap decisions.

by deacs on Jul 9, 2010 10:50 AM MDT up reply actions  

Great point

A lot of other teams are still stupid. However, that’s not an endorsement of the Yankees’ player development system.

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Jul 9, 2010 10:57 AM MDT up reply actions  

No, their own developed players...

…marginal success as a whole is a mark against them.

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Jul 9, 2010 11:15 AM MDT up reply actions  

I don’t see Cano, Hughes, Joba, Jackson, maybe Kennedy, maybe Tabata, as marginal success for an organization over a 3-4 year period.

by deacs on Jul 9, 2010 11:20 AM MDT up reply actions  

Also, what's wrong with using Jeter, Posada, Mo, Pettitte?

Good players last a long time. I buy my dress shoes at Kenneth Cole instead of Payless, not because they look better, but because they’re going to last for years.

by deacs on Jul 9, 2010 10:05 AM MDT up reply actions  

All of the players above can, however,

and they’ve given the Yankees a) a cheap source of players to fill in the roster while they pillage the FA markets, and b) tools to trade for young, cost-controlled players (like Granderson).

by deacs on Jul 9, 2010 10:09 AM MDT up reply actions  

No

I was referring to Austin Jackson, Phil Coke, Jose Tabata, etc… Not to the 1996-2000 core.

by deacs on Jul 9, 2010 10:10 AM MDT up reply actions  

sure, they have to fill in the pieces with cheaper players

they still operate under a separate set of rules from everyone else though

I wonder what it feels like to work in a real police department...
Denver.SBNation.com

by Muzia on Jul 9, 2010 10:10 AM MDT up reply actions  

We've been down this road before

The Yankees have a revenue stream that can’t be matched. Not only is the potential revenue massive; they do a better job maximizing it than any other team.

And as I tried to articulate above about players colluding to join the same team, there are as many problems with a cap as there are with the current system. I’m of the belief that the cap will only serve to push salaries down and make teams more profitable. It won’t reduce ballpark prices, and it won’t stop players from gathering on one team a la the Heat/Celtics.

by deacs on Jul 9, 2010 10:12 AM MDT up reply actions  

I certainly agree with you on the latter point

the cap won’t fix anything at all.

I wonder what it feels like to work in a real police department...
Denver.SBNation.com

by Muzia on Jul 9, 2010 10:15 AM MDT up reply actions  

What do you do about the revenue stream though? Short of capping revenue (and having the rest spill over to some common fund like the Luxury Tax), I don’t know what the solution would be.

Eventually, the Yankees will spend themselves out of contention (probably on Jeter).

by deacs on Jul 9, 2010 10:18 AM MDT up reply actions  

the luxury tax is a good idea poorly implemented

right now, the Yankees are the only team paying into the fund. How about we lower it to a point that the top 5 payrolls have to pay into it.

This way, the Yankees will balk at having to pay such an exorbitant amount of money, other teams also have to split the bill, and payrolls will normalize.

(If this happened, a salary floor would also need to be included, so teams like Florida can’t fund their entire payroll from luxury tax revenues)

I wonder what it feels like to work in a real police department...
Denver.SBNation.com

by Muzia on Jul 9, 2010 10:21 AM MDT up reply actions  

This is a weird "what if" but here it goes:

So the biggest thing some of the eastern sports teams have going for them are their TV contracts – would it be possible for a bunch of regional small market baseball teams to come together and do what the yankees/redsox are doing?

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by Maria M on Jul 9, 2010 10:19 AM MDT up reply actions  

Given baseball's territories map

it’d be a difficult task. Things like the Big Ten network work because there aren’t many games happening simultaneously. But baseball is obviously different.

Also, MLB probably wouldn’t want a competitor for the MLB Network.

by deacs on Jul 9, 2010 10:27 AM MDT up reply actions  

How about a colorado sports network

With coverage for Broncos,Rockies,Av’s, Nuggets, Rapids, Mammoth, other sports teams I may not know about…

"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)

Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
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by Maria M on Jul 9, 2010 10:29 AM MDT up reply actions  

Isn't that Altitude

sans Rockies and Broncos coverage?

Cooler than a polar bear's toenails...

by The jDub on Jul 9, 2010 10:30 AM MDT up reply actions  

isn't altitude

now owned by Fox Sports? I could be wrong on this.

"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)

Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.

My Photography Website

My Photography on Facebook

by Maria M on Jul 9, 2010 10:31 AM MDT up reply actions  

Altitude is still owned by Kroenke sports

I wonder what it feels like to work in a real police department...
Denver.SBNation.com

by Muzia on Jul 9, 2010 10:31 AM MDT up reply actions  

thank you.

"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)

Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.

My Photography Website

My Photography on Facebook

by Maria M on Jul 9, 2010 10:33 AM MDT up reply actions  

Thank You

RMN. You are oh so very helpful.

"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)

Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.

My Photography Website

My Photography on Facebook

by Maria M on Jul 9, 2010 10:34 AM MDT up reply actions  

much appreciated

my good sir.

"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)

Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.

My Photography Website

My Photography on Facebook

by Maria M on Jul 9, 2010 10:34 AM MDT up reply actions  

Altitude is owned by Kroenke

Cooler than a polar bear's toenails...

by The jDub on Jul 9, 2010 10:31 AM MDT up reply actions  

thank you.

"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)

Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.

My Photography Website

My Photography on Facebook

by Maria M on Jul 9, 2010 10:33 AM MDT up reply actions  

wouldn't allow it, in fact

the YES network is its own beast

I wonder what it feels like to work in a real police department...
Denver.SBNation.com

by Muzia on Jul 9, 2010 10:29 AM MDT up reply actions  

that sucks.

stupid east coast bias

/stupidity

"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)

Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.

My Photography Website

My Photography on Facebook

by Maria M on Jul 9, 2010 10:32 AM MDT up reply actions  

If you were the Pittsburg Pirates

You would.

Seth Smith's beard looks on in anticipation.

by Thnikkaman on Jul 9, 2010 10:27 AM MDT up reply actions  

If people can pay...

Cooler than a polar bear's toenails...

by The jDub on Jul 9, 2010 10:32 AM MDT up reply actions  

precisely.

the market in New York is supporting it, therefore there is no reason for it to change.

I wonder what it feels like to work in a real police department...
Denver.SBNation.com

by Muzia on Jul 9, 2010 10:32 AM MDT up reply actions  

Dirty capitalism FTW!

Cooler than a polar bear's toenails...

by The jDub on Jul 9, 2010 10:33 AM MDT up reply actions  

ahhh baseball

where baseball IQ is inversely proportional to the price paid for the ticket.

Brad Eldred: El ponderoso burrito

by frightened inmate #2 on Jul 9, 2010 10:34 AM MDT up reply actions  

that's fine,

but you were stupid at that game.

Brad Eldred: El ponderoso burrito

by frightened inmate #2 on Jul 9, 2010 10:35 AM MDT up reply actions  

shoelicker?

"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)

Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.

My Photography Website

My Photography on Facebook

by Maria M on Jul 9, 2010 10:36 AM MDT up reply actions  

what game?

"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)

Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.

My Photography Website

My Photography on Facebook

by Maria M on Jul 9, 2010 10:39 AM MDT up reply actions  

hey me too

Timmeh vs Ubaldo last fall. It completely owned.

I wonder what it feels like to work in a real police department...
Denver.SBNation.com

by Muzia on Jul 9, 2010 10:38 AM MDT up reply actions  

if we leave at like 4am on friday we could make all 3 games

and almost guarantee a Strasburg start

I wonder what it feels like to work in a real police department...
Denver.SBNation.com

by Muzia on Jul 9, 2010 10:44 AM MDT up reply actions  

sweet!

wait that phrase confuses me.

yay?

I wonder what it feels like to work in a real police department...
Denver.SBNation.com

by Muzia on Jul 9, 2010 10:45 AM MDT up reply actions  

STOP RUBBING IT IN MY FACE

kidding…have a dodger dog for me would ya.

"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)

Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.

My Photography Website

My Photography on Facebook

by Maria M on Jul 9, 2010 10:45 AM MDT up reply actions  

probably at least 3

one for every game since we’re getting 2$ tickets

I wonder what it feels like to work in a real police department...
Denver.SBNation.com

by Muzia on Jul 9, 2010 10:50 AM MDT up reply actions  

what?!?!?

thats awesome.

"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)

Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.

My Photography Website

My Photography on Facebook

by Maria M on Jul 9, 2010 10:51 AM MDT up reply actions  

yeah outfield seats for like 2$ apiece

apparently no one wants to see the Natinals, even though we have like an 80% of seeing Strasburg

I wonder what it feels like to work in a real police department...
Denver.SBNation.com

by Muzia on Jul 9, 2010 10:53 AM MDT up reply actions  

that is awesome.

I’m even more jealous now.

"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)

Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.

My Photography Website

My Photography on Facebook

by Maria M on Jul 9, 2010 10:53 AM MDT up reply actions