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Wednesday Rockpile: It's Time to Say Goodbye to Hawpe

After that debacle last night, the Rockies have reached their low point this season in terms of divisional deficit (10). As a result, it's looking more and more like I'm going to eat my words about the 2010 NL West division champion. So be it. The consolation prize of a wild card berth is still conceivably within reach, but I'm not holding my breath.

And so, I choose to focus on the future. Right now, the most interesting near-term issue for the Rockies is the fate of Brad Hawpe. The former All-Star was spared the roster ax when Taylor Buchholz conveniently had back stiffness last night and was placed on the DL, allowing Jhoulys Chacin to be added to the 25 man roster, but Hawpe's days as a Rockie still appear to be numbered.

Namely, the Rockies are currently carrying only six relievers in order to keep Eric Young Jr. on the roster, and will likely rectify this inequality soon. According to GM Dan O' Dowd via Troy Renck on the subject, "We have a bunch of great guys. But this is a performance-based business".

That would seem to point towards Hawpe leaving the team, as the OFer has lacked his traditional slugging prowess this season. He's still an average hitter (100 wRC+ this season), just not for a ton of power (.430 SLG). Given his wooden outfield defense, Hawpe just hasn't provided a good enough offensive package to justify his $7.5 million salary this year (0.4 WAR). It's safe to say that Hawpe is the team's fourth-best outfielder in terms of performance and yet is by far the highest-compensated. Then again, this has been true for quite some time. 

The fact that Hawpe is on August revocable outright waivers should clear the way for his departure from the Rockies organization. Renck posits that Hawpe's $2.2 million remaining salary will scare teams away and that he will clear, making a trade a great possibility. I've been driving the trade Hawpe bandwagon since May of last year, when he was at the peak of his trade value and the Rockies weren't in contention. After the playoff run last year, a Hawpe trade still made too much sense not to occur in the offseason. I felt then that Hawpe was the type of player who would decline quickly due to his lack of speed and long swing, quickly sapping his trade value to other teams...and unfortunately I was right.

And now? Now the Rockies will be lucky to receive anything of any value in a trade for Hawpe. Heck, the best case scenario with him might involve him being claimed on waivers and the Rockies letting him go and receiving some salary relief ($2.7 million if you count his $500k buyout for his 2011 option). "Jeff, you're insane, Hawpe's going to be a Type A free agent", you might say. Unfortunately, in order to receive compensation picks for Hawpe leaving in free agency, two unlikely things have to happen.

Namely, Hawpe needs to receive sufficient interest from a team (it would likely be an AL team with an open DH slot) so that he declines the Rockies' offer of arbitration. Otherwise Hawpe will be of little worth to the Rockies as an asset this offseason. An arbitration settlement for Hawpe next season would result in a minimum of a $6 million salary for the slugger, not a palatable option for a 4th outfielder/1B backup with Hawpe's defensive resume.

I think that an AL team will want to look at Hawpe next year as a 1B/DH option, but they won't be willing to surrender a high draft pick for the privilege. No, in my opinion this has turned into a Garrett Atkins situation for the Rockies in that Hawpe is an asset that the Rockies have held onto for too long so as to render his value virtually worthless. Sure, Hawpe is a better player than Atkins was last year, but he's also declining pretty heavily against his career offensive numbers, playing at a position of depth for Colorado, and making way too much money for the production the Rockies are receiving.

The fact that the organization is so committed to its players is great, but at some point the Rockies need to be able to flip its major league homegrown talent at the zenith of their value rather than at their nadir.

It's time to say goodbye, Rockies fans. Maybe as soon as tomorrow.

Star-divide

Other Links

Renck has another mailbag, in which the Denver Post writer addresses questions about prospects, Tulowitzki, Street, and the Rockies' lack of waiver trade deadline activity.

Patrick Saunders writes about the Coors Field gameday experience and analyzes the Rockies' fanbase in the process (are Rockies fans too polite?). He rails against the wave, so there's that.

The CBS Power Rankings haven't ruled out a Colorado run, but they aren't optimistic.

I posted this in the Rockpile comments yesterday, but it really does bear reading so I'll post it again. Minor league writer Mike Ashmore writes a thorough and engrossing account of minor league life: Investing in the Future. It is well worth the time to read.

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You should repost it here...there were a lot of good points.

The writer formerly known as Jabberwocky
READ and LEARN about the business of baseball at Purple Row Academy
Eschew Obfuscation!

by Jeff Aberle on Aug 18, 2010 8:39 AM MDT up reply actions  

Reposted by request

Observations and Musings from the Tout Box

1. Chacin absolutely looked great over the first few innings with great movement and mix. Then he walker Theriot again and got behind Ethier. We all looked at each other because it was obvious he had changed his slot. Essentially triying to guide the ball which straightens the ball out and reduces speed. His FB went from a consistent 92-93 on my gun to a 89-90 and he was lit up.

2. We had a lengthy discussion over the downfall of the Rockies as a defensive team. Whether it be straight fielding, ill-advised positioning, etc. This team is not near the defensive team it has been over the last couple of years. In fact it has gone from one of the top five to perhaps bottom ten. The pitching staff used to be one of the best at not allowing walks and now has regressed to where they are basically in the middle of the pack. We were talking about this in the pre-game and then in the big inning they had a mis-positioned H/R and then a terrible route by Spilly that looked like a HS corner outfielder.

3. We all agreed that this team, as presently constituted is not a contender. Throw way your dreams of a hot streak as this squad has neither the pitching, hitting, defense or strut to mount any run. The body language of the players once they got behind last night was quite noticeable. These are things you see in person. Chacin looked like he was in the maternity waiting room. They were up and perked until the big inning and then they knew they were done. This team in the past did not do that. Several players are having off years (Helton, Hawpe, Barmes, Ianetta, Stewart, Fowler, Spilly). You get past the 4 hole and the team has nothing. Injuries have really put a cramp in the pitching staff. The consistency is simply not there. The guys I was with felt that Francis and Cook are basically .500 pitchers.

4. We all agreed and like the Young/Fowler dynamic. It was obvious to me that Fowler could be a very functional 2 hole guy. His focus was focused on making contact and he did a great job last night. Having a burner on in front of you does that. We all also agreed that needs to stay intact the rest of the season. It gives them a unique situation to put pressure on opposing teams. However Cargo and Tulo were unable to capitlize due to:

5. Total over aggressivenes. See my previous comment. These two guys have been carrying the load for this team all year and they basically feel they have to do it all. As a result they are up there swinging at everything and opposing teams have realized that on the road they will cahse, chase and chase some more. The back of the lineup is non-existent. These two are the only consistent run producers. It is obvious they are under a no walk order. So everytime they came up last night they hit the box swinging, no matter where the location. With men on bases they have to be more selective and force the pitchers to bring them the meat.

6. We all agreed there will be some shakeups this off season. They need to feel safe that it is OK to get rid of your home grown players when they do not pan out or lose productivity. It is not a sign that your system stinks it is simply the nature of the game where some guys work out and some guys do not. Could be the players around them, where they hit in the order, the ballpark, etc. The Rockies have been reluctant to dispatch their home grown talent for fear it would be a self indictment. That philosophy need to to change. It is normal and OK. You need to be able to see the weaknesses in your players and either find ways or personnel who can hide it or strike when the iron is hot.

7. Stewart is mutually agreed to be one of the most non-coachable and non applying players in the game. Draw your own conclusions, ours were sort of inflammatory. His AB late in the game was even a bigger white flag than the French army uses.

8. Scouts are amazed at the home/road approach change of Rockie hitters. They strike out twice as much on the road. Last year they had a swagger on the road and this year they seem brain dead.

by PinchHitLancePainter on Aug 18, 2010 8:46 AM MDT up reply actions  

Totally on Approach

notice as a RH hitter last night he shortened his stroke and focused on hitting behind runners. This is good. The issue is unless some upgrades occur in the bottom of the order, then you have another light bat. The issue for the Rocks is 3-4 need more discipline and production needs to come from 5-8. Right now they have neither. I believe Fowler is a better glove than Cargo in CF but the issue becomes one of overall personnel. At .220 he is a gloried Gary Pettis.

by PinchHitLancePainter on Aug 18, 2010 9:13 AM MDT up reply actions  

Why do you think Stewart is not coachable?

If the 2007 Rockies can win 21 out of 22 to reach the World Series and the 2009 Rockies can come from 12 games under .500 in June to make the playoffs, why can't the 2010 Rockies make the postseason after being 51-50?

Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #1

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Aug 18, 2010 9:02 AM MDT up reply actions  

Not just me but

about seven scouts I sat with. He does not and will not change his approach regardless of count. He is viewed as a talented but stubborn young man. His plate discipline is poor, his in-bat adjustments are non-existent. He makes follish decisions on the bases. All things that are inexplicable for a player with the experience he has.

by PinchHitLancePainter on Aug 18, 2010 9:05 AM MDT up reply actions  

Problems like that have to have started

way before Baylor got a hold of him.

I Hate the Giants

by Rosenort on Aug 18, 2010 9:09 AM MDT up reply actions  

but these are things that aren't too far out of character for a talented player in the big leagues

especially since this is his first real season as a starter (though that can even be debated).

I can certainly recognize baserunning gaffes and his failure to adjust based on situations, but he’s still young and inexperienced. If he’s not getting the proper coaching, that could be an enormous flaw.

He’s not really a Carlos Gomez type player in my opinion. THAT is someone I see as “uncoachable”

/throws SDcat09 under bus
Rowsdower! But why, Rowsdower?
SB Nation Denver

by Muzia on Aug 18, 2010 9:11 AM MDT up reply actions  

Absolutely

this kind was annointed for several years. He was our Ryan Zimmerman. Look at Zimmerman now as compared to Stewart. The guy is a cornerstone in every way. Stewart may be under pressure to produce at the back end. He is basically becoming a platoon player and that is a far cry from his advanced billing. His approach vs LHs is basically I hope I get lucky. I see his confidence is eroding. This is the time for extra work. These guys had an off day on Monday but yet hardly anyone showed up for extra batting practice. Your workout regiment is a correlate to your improvement and performance.

by PinchHitLancePainter on Aug 18, 2010 9:20 AM MDT up reply actions  

Out of curiosity

Who did show up for extra BP?

If the 2007 Rockies can win 21 out of 22 to reach the World Series and the 2009 Rockies can come from 12 games under .500 in June to make the playoffs, why can't the 2010 Rockies make the postseason after being 51-50?

Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #1

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Aug 18, 2010 9:26 AM MDT up reply actions  

Do you think Tracy has lost the team?

Not trying to start a war here…but why wouldn’t he make it mandatory?

Brad Hawpe - I'm going to miss you most of all....but until then, swing that beautiful swing and maybe just one more put out at home from the RF corner, on one hop.
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Aug 18, 2010 9:28 AM MDT up reply actions  

this and recced.

The time for dumping Tracy has long since past, and he’s really not doing that bad of a job. The team really isn’t doing that badly at four games over .500. It just needs some fixes.

by Rox Girl on Aug 18, 2010 9:33 AM MDT up reply actions  

I agree. Right now the Rockies are this:

All it needs is a little love… and a right side of the infield that can hit.

"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton

by Franchise26 on Aug 18, 2010 9:34 AM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

With the roster we have I think four games over .500 is a bad job

I’m not saying it’s Tracy’s fault because I think the blame lies more with the players but there is no way I’m happy with the performance of this team.

If the 2007 Rockies can win 21 out of 22 to reach the World Series and the 2009 Rockies can come from 12 games under .500 in June to make the playoffs, why can't the 2010 Rockies make the postseason after being 51-50?

Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #1

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Aug 18, 2010 9:41 AM MDT up reply actions  

Turn that road record from 14 under .500 to seven or eight under .500

And this team is effing awesome. I can’t stand Tracy, but I’m definitely not blaming it all on him. Personally, I blame Josh McDaniels.

by Bokosse on Aug 18, 2010 9:44 AM MDT up reply actions  

And if we can do that to our road record before the end of the year we probably make the playoffs

If the 2007 Rockies can win 21 out of 22 to reach the World Series and the 2009 Rockies can come from 12 games under .500 in June to make the playoffs, why can't the 2010 Rockies make the postseason after being 51-50?

Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #1

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Aug 18, 2010 9:49 AM MDT up reply actions  

I think blaming Josh McDaniels for

everything wrong with sports in Denver currently is a good plan. I’m with you…

Brad Hawpe - I'm going to miss you most of all....but until then, swing that beautiful swing and maybe just one more put out at home from the RF corner, on one hop.
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Aug 18, 2010 9:50 AM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

I was making light of McD haters.

I personally would follow him to the ends of the earth, and I’m only half-joking.

But alas, this is a Rockies’ blog, so I’ll leave the defense to MHR.

by Bokosse on Aug 18, 2010 9:52 AM MDT up reply actions  

I'm a McD disapprover....

Brad Hawpe - I'm going to miss you most of all....but until then, swing that beautiful swing and maybe just one more put out at home from the RF corner, on one hop.
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Aug 18, 2010 9:55 AM MDT up reply actions  

I'm dying for an explanation from a McD disapprover...

If we keep it hush-hush, could you provide one? I just don’t understand all Bronco fans don’t buy what he’s selling.

by Bokosse on Aug 18, 2010 9:57 AM MDT up reply actions  

We just ran one guy out for being great at utilising game-day talent and having no sense of quality in ACQUIRING player personnel.

Why give the next guy the combined responsibility, instead of importing a REAL GM to get the talent, and a proven—or as proven as can be—game-day coach to make the most of whatever talent the FO gives him?

Theoretically, it was working for in baseball and basketball, after all—I just, after Shanny, DON’T LIKE combined front office/coach’s office situations anymore. I think the odds that somebody has talent in both slots are infinitely lower than that you take a hit to one side to get perfomance on the other

by Chrysicat on Aug 18, 2010 10:01 AM MDT up reply actions  

Xanders is a GM in name only, and McD is where the buck pretty much stops on personnel issues.

I can’t remember, but I think there was a similar figurehead for most of the Shanahan erro—errr, era too, but I can’t be completely sure. We all know who really made every player choice in that time-frame, though, don’t we?

by Chrysicat on Aug 18, 2010 10:08 AM MDT up reply actions  

Shanahan was coach and GM. He held both titles

What evidence do you have of Xanders being a figurehead?

/throws SDcat09 under bus
Rowsdower! But why, Rowsdower?
SB Nation Denver

by Muzia on Aug 18, 2010 10:08 AM MDT up reply actions  

Which I'll admit is sort of my 'evidence' for Xanders being same...

…and honestly, can anyone tell me that the ‘de facto GM’ years of Shanahan were a good thing? That team has had one deep playoff run since they fired John Beake…and while Davis being forced into premature retirement is a part of that, it’s not all of it.

by Chrysicat on Aug 18, 2010 10:52 AM MDT up reply actions  

I don't think you're correct...

But regardless, we hate McD because he was given the same power that Shanahan had? That makes me even more confused.

by Bokosse on Aug 18, 2010 10:09 AM MDT up reply actions  

I'm disappointed in Pat Bowlen

The real culprit is the COO who talked Bowlen into hiring McD….

Brad Hawpe - I'm going to miss you most of all....but until then, swing that beautiful swing and maybe just one more put out at home from the RF corner, on one hop.
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Aug 18, 2010 11:00 AM MDT up reply actions  

would you have rather they hired Denny Green?

I like the McD move, but it’s too early to tell either direction how it will pan out.

/throws SDcat09 under bus
Rowsdower! But why, Rowsdower?
SB Nation Denver

by Muzia on Aug 18, 2010 11:01 AM MDT up reply actions  

Steve Spagnolo

Brad Hawpe - I'm going to miss you most of all....but until then, swing that beautiful swing and maybe just one more put out at home from the RF corner, on one hop.
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Aug 18, 2010 11:01 AM MDT up reply actions  

Actually, I'd rather they kept Shanny

hired a real GM, and Shanny hires Spagnolo as the defensive coordinator….

Brad Hawpe - I'm going to miss you most of all....but until then, swing that beautiful swing and maybe just one more put out at home from the RF corner, on one hop.
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Aug 18, 2010 11:02 AM MDT up reply actions  

no chance in hell that happened though

Shanahan would NEVER have given up those keys to the Broncos’ office

/throws SDcat09 under bus
Rowsdower! But why, Rowsdower?
SB Nation Denver

by Muzia on Aug 18, 2010 11:03 AM MDT up reply actions  

True, barring that

keep Jeremy Bates make him the OC, and hire Spagnoloz

Brad Hawpe - I'm going to miss you most of all....but until then, swing that beautiful swing and maybe just one more put out at home from the RF corner, on one hop.
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Aug 18, 2010 11:04 AM MDT up reply actions  

Well, I would've, in hindsight, probably have dragged the team even further down than they did...

I wanted Raheem…

…but that’s beside the point; a large part of why I didn’t want McD is because the Patriots have a whiff of ‘70s Raider in more than just their win totals, and I DIDN’T want the Bellicheat Way brought out here.

by Chrysicat on Aug 18, 2010 11:05 AM MDT up reply actions  

...and my second choice, as above, would've been Spags

At any rate, I doubt either of them would’ve traded a first-round pick for a borderline third-rounder (Alphonso Smith LOLOLOL), OR spent a first-round pick on a guy who’ll help sell the team in the Springs and South Alabama, but turn off Boulder…

by Chrysicat on Aug 18, 2010 11:07 AM MDT up reply actions  

as I've said before, we have to see how these things play out

and one season is not nearly enough.

I have questioned his drafts as well, but it’s still too early.

/throws SDcat09 under bus
Rowsdower! But why, Rowsdower?
SB Nation Denver

by Muzia on Aug 18, 2010 11:08 AM MDT up reply actions  

Do you like his Tebow pick?

Brad Hawpe - I'm going to miss you most of all....but until then, swing that beautiful swing and maybe just one more put out at home from the RF corner, on one hop.
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Aug 18, 2010 11:09 AM MDT up reply actions  

I like the player, hate the pick

/throws SDcat09 under bus
Rowsdower! But why, Rowsdower?
SB Nation Denver

by Muzia on Aug 18, 2010 11:09 AM MDT up reply actions  

How can you hate the pick because

it’s all about the player?

Brad Hawpe - I'm going to miss you most of all....but until then, swing that beautiful swing and maybe just one more put out at home from the RF corner, on one hop.
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Aug 18, 2010 11:10 AM MDT up reply actions  

i don't care.

"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)

Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.

My Photography Website

My Photography on Facebook

by Maria M on Aug 18, 2010 12:30 PM MDT up reply actions  

Oh really? Have you seen that part of the thread?

just kidding

Brad Hawpe - I'm going to miss you most of all....but until then, swing that beautiful swing and maybe just one more put out at home from the RF corner, on one hop.
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Aug 18, 2010 12:40 PM MDT up reply actions  

I HATE NICKLEBACK

"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)

Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.

My Photography Website

My Photography on Facebook

by Maria M on Aug 18, 2010 12:48 PM MDT up reply actions  

Purple Row:

Where we talk about the Broncos because it’s too hard to talk about them on MHR

by Andrew Martin on Aug 18, 2010 11:11 AM MDT up reply actions  

Denver has a football team?

PROJECT LIBRA: Depth / Transactions
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates

by Greg Stanwood on Aug 18, 2010 11:12 AM MDT up reply actions  

what's a foosball

Yes, I actually do like cricket. I'm Indian.
Hollidayrain Music

by Hollidayrain on Aug 18, 2010 12:39 PM MDT up reply actions  

It's too mean at MHR...not even kidding...sorry.....

Brad Hawpe - I'm going to miss you most of all....but until then, swing that beautiful swing and maybe just one more put out at home from the RF corner, on one hop.
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Aug 18, 2010 11:13 AM MDT up reply actions  

I'm not suggesting we should be happy with the performance

I’m certainly not. I expected us to win the division this year (even with the Pads’ surprising performance).

But I’m also saying that even though the team won’t blame injuries, they have played a much bigger role than is being given credit for.

For instance, if we aren’t missing Street for nearly three months, Morales and Corpas aren’t blowing saves every other day (and Belisle also isn’t getting overworked).

not as punny as SDcat00

by Mondogarage on Aug 18, 2010 9:51 AM MDT up reply actions  

I agree injuries have hurt us but I also believe that this team has underachieved even when players are healthy

Few things make me angrier than underachieving

If the 2007 Rockies can win 21 out of 22 to reach the World Series and the 2009 Rockies can come from 12 games under .500 in June to make the playoffs, why can't the 2010 Rockies make the postseason after being 51-50?

Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #1

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Aug 18, 2010 9:59 AM MDT up reply actions  

Granted

But how much is truly underachieving, and how much is overestimating actual potential.

As in, we all think Stewie can and should be a beast. And he has beastly power. But really, he’s performed at pretty much this level, every season thus far.

Spilly is who he is, a 4th OFer.

Barmes is who he is, he hasn’t really regressed in plate discipline and approach, it’s always sucked.

I guess what I’m saying is, I’m not sure our healthy players have actually underachieved what they’re actually capable of over a long term, and our other players have been hurt.

not as punny as SDcat00

by Mondogarage on Aug 18, 2010 10:10 AM MDT up reply actions  

this is where I think PHLP is right on with his point about letting homegrown players go

players like Barmes, Atkins, etc.. The front office seems very unwilling to simply let their homegrowns go even when there are suitable replacements available.

It’s a big reason why many of us love this team, but it’s also to blame for some of the failings this season.

/throws SDcat09 under bus
Rowsdower! But why, Rowsdower?
SB Nation Denver

by Muzia on Aug 18, 2010 10:12 AM MDT up reply actions  

I completely agree with letting homegrown guys go

I think our policy of developing homegrown guys has worked very well for the franchise.

That doesn’t mean keeping them all until their mid 30s.

But remember, guys like Cook and Hawpe got their present contracts when they were in their theoretical primes…so I don’t have a problem with them having been here this long at all, which doesn’t mean now is not the time to cut bait.

not as punny as SDcat00

by Mondogarage on Aug 18, 2010 10:22 AM MDT up reply actions  

this is part of the learning process of our front office. They stuck to their guns during the lean years and now they are learning when to holster them.

You gotta know when to fold em.

by Andrew Martin on Aug 18, 2010 10:38 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

I'm gonna defend Venison...

…even in the bigs, he didn’t much NEED plate discipline to the level of most players with his natural swing.

It’s just too bad that he’s physically incapable of using his natural swing ever since he fell down the stairs carrying Todd Helton’s deer meat.

by Chrysicat on Aug 18, 2010 10:14 AM MDT up reply actions  

I think his swing and approach was like that before the venison incident.

He was just in a prolonged hot streak to begin the season

The writer formerly known as Jabberwocky
READ and LEARN about the business of baseball at Purple Row Academy
Eschew Obfuscation!

by Jeff Aberle on Aug 18, 2010 10:17 AM MDT up reply actions  

or in his regular monthly splits

the injury saved us from August Barmes that season

/throws SDcat09 under bus
Rowsdower! But why, Rowsdower?
SB Nation Denver

by Muzia on Aug 18, 2010 10:18 AM MDT up reply actions  

This

Barmes was never going to be a consistent bat.

But it’s also not as if there’s been a ton of big hitting 2B in the majors the last few years, really. The biggest reason to get rid of him now isn’t his performance in a vacuum, it’s the combination of his performance and current arb status

not as punny as SDcat00

by Mondogarage on Aug 18, 2010 10:23 AM MDT up reply actions  

I honestly think that with the death of the 'roids era...

…that even your league-leader 2B is going to go back to being a guy who does the job with his D, hits for a high average (well, relatively high, since the 60’s are back for pitchers), and pokes the occasional HR.

Uggla may be the last of the breed as far as corner-infielder power at 2B goes, and I still don’t see how his D can be defended by anyone.

by Chrysicat on Aug 18, 2010 10:28 AM MDT up reply actions  

And you're also going to see....

….a much more natural physical regression, usually slowly through a player’s early 30s, and picking up speed at 35.

There will always be exceptions (e.g. Dave Winfield), but by and large, signing guys already 32-33 to six year contracts will be a huge mistake.

not as punny as SDcat00

by Mondogarage on Aug 18, 2010 10:36 AM MDT up reply actions  

no one defends Ugglas D

we all acknowledge that it is below average but his bat more than makes up for it

by purplesocks on Aug 18, 2010 11:05 AM MDT up reply actions  

This is in jest right?

Because I’ll take all afternoon to defend it. Especially if you’re talking about how it affects his overall package, and what the overall package is worth compared to almost every Rockies 2B except EY1.

by deacs on Aug 18, 2010 11:06 AM MDT up reply actions  

What?

You know what else is over? The era of Rey Ordonez being an everyday player. Teams will continue to accept mediocre to slightly below average D in exchange for above average hitting from the position.

by deacs on Aug 18, 2010 11:11 AM MDT up reply actions  

Chase Utley?

And Pedroia, Cano, Weeks, Prado, Aaron Hill, Kelly Johnson?

All are competent 2B of Uggla D or better, and all have enough power to play at least the 3B side of the corners.

by deacs on Aug 18, 2010 11:09 AM MDT up reply actions  

Chutley is not even in the same discussion as Uggla

Brad Hawpe - I'm going to miss you most of all....but until then, swing that beautiful swing and maybe just one more put out at home from the RF corner, on one hop.
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Aug 18, 2010 11:10 AM MDT up reply actions  

offensively? or as an entire package

/throws SDcat09 under bus
Rowsdower! But why, Rowsdower?
SB Nation Denver

by Muzia on Aug 18, 2010 11:11 AM MDT up reply actions  

Entire package...

Brad Hawpe - I'm going to miss you most of all....but until then, swing that beautiful swing and maybe just one more put out at home from the RF corner, on one hop.
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Aug 18, 2010 11:14 AM MDT up reply actions  

Read the whole discussion

None of them are, except maybe Hill and Johnson.

Utley is part of it… power hitting second basemen are not dead.

by deacs on Aug 18, 2010 11:11 AM MDT up reply actions  

Hey, my model for 2B hit 20 HRs a year...

…but I want the D there too, and I’m willing to throw away 3 or so HR before fielding percentage…

by Chrysicat on Aug 18, 2010 11:15 AM MDT up reply actions  

So we’re talking about two things:

1) Sacrificing offense for defense. There are so many power hitting second basemen (Hill, Kinsler, Cano, Pedroia, Prado, Utley, Johnson, etc) that power is not a dying trend at the position. Nor are power and defense mutually exclusive as most of them play superb defense.

2) Clint Barmes is a model for making outs, not for a starting second baseman. It’s nice that he has some power, but the D at 2B hasn’t been there this year and his OBP doesn’t belong in a starting lineup.

3) I’d rather have Uggla over almost every other 2B that isn’t on the list above. A 2B’s defense has to be spectacular to make up for the kind of bat Barmes has, and Barmes doesn’t have that kind of defense. Very few people do have enough D to make up for that bat.

by deacs on Aug 18, 2010 11:20 AM MDT up reply actions  

I did read the whole discussion

Brad Hawpe - I'm going to miss you most of all....but until then, swing that beautiful swing and maybe just one more put out at home from the RF corner, on one hop.
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Aug 18, 2010 11:17 AM MDT up reply actions  

Then you know I wasn’t comparing Uggles and Utley. I was talking about there being no decline in power hitting 2B.

by deacs on Aug 18, 2010 11:21 AM MDT up reply actions  

I include our constant inability to come through in big spots on the road in the underachieving category as well

If the 2007 Rockies can win 21 out of 22 to reach the World Series and the 2009 Rockies can come from 12 games under .500 in June to make the playoffs, why can't the 2010 Rockies make the postseason after being 51-50?

Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #1

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Aug 18, 2010 10:23 AM MDT up reply actions  

I didn't say dump Tracy

I asked PHLP if he thought the team was tuning out Tracy.

Brad Hawpe - I'm going to miss you most of all....but until then, swing that beautiful swing and maybe just one more put out at home from the RF corner, on one hop.
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Aug 18, 2010 9:34 AM MDT up reply actions  

Turning on Tracy, probably not

But giving up on the season, I can see that.

by mkorpal on Aug 18, 2010 9:36 AM MDT up reply actions  

not turning on him...tuning him out

Brad Hawpe - I'm going to miss you most of all....but until then, swing that beautiful swing and maybe just one more put out at home from the RF corner, on one hop.
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Aug 18, 2010 9:37 AM MDT up reply actions  

Wasn't aiming this at you

But anyone who’s actually “depressed” that we gave a 3 year contract to a manager who drove a dreadful-starting team to a .667 winning percentage over 100 games, is being rather delusional, imho.

Tracy absolutely earned that three year deal last offseason, and gave us probably the greatest stretch of managing in club history over that time.

not as punny as SDcat00

by Mondogarage on Aug 18, 2010 9:38 AM MDT up reply actions  

I was hesistant to see him given that 3 year deal

I keep thinking about his reputation as Mr. Micro Manager…still have mixed feelings about the guy…..

Brad Hawpe - I'm going to miss you most of all....but until then, swing that beautiful swing and maybe just one more put out at home from the RF corner, on one hop.
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Aug 18, 2010 9:40 AM MDT up reply actions  

If the parts performed to expectations

Tracy probably wouldn’t be known as a micro-manager. But he’s playing the hand he’s dealt. He hasn’t played it well when the cards are crap, but he’s shown he can play them well when things are working.

by deacs on Aug 18, 2010 9:42 AM MDT up reply actions  

I'm also thinking back to his time with the Dodgers

Brad Hawpe - I'm going to miss you most of all....but until then, swing that beautiful swing and maybe just one more put out at home from the RF corner, on one hop.
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Aug 18, 2010 9:43 AM MDT up reply actions  

Those teams weren't full of gold either.

And he had four winning seasons in five years. I don’t recall enough to refute the idea that he was a master tinkerer, but those teams outperformed their pythag record.

by deacs on Aug 18, 2010 9:46 AM MDT up reply actions  

I don't have time to prove anything...

Brad Hawpe - I'm going to miss you most of all....but until then, swing that beautiful swing and maybe just one more put out at home from the RF corner, on one hop.
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Aug 18, 2010 9:47 AM MDT up reply actions  

Well, I just proved something by pointing out that

his teams in LA outperformed their pythag, and really weren’t stocked with talent. They got some nice performances from their starting pitching, but names like Terry Adams, Kaz Ishii, Darren Dreifort and Andy Ashby aren’t an endorsement of the quality of those teams.

by deacs on Aug 18, 2010 9:51 AM MDT up reply actions  

Ashby...

…was a great pitcher anywhere below 3000 feet…

…and Dreifort wasn’t a slouch either.

The others, I’ll agree on.

by Chrysicat on Aug 18, 2010 9:55 AM MDT up reply actions  

Ashby was a good pitcher until 1999, and even though he won 14 games that year he was average at best. From then on, he was below average at best.

Dreifort had one good year in the rotation (1998), and was poor thereafter. And one of the worst contracts ever given out.

(I’m going on ERA and FIP).

by deacs on Aug 18, 2010 9:59 AM MDT up reply actions  

And you completely missed my joke.....

Brad Hawpe - I'm going to miss you most of all....but until then, swing that beautiful swing and maybe just one more put out at home from the RF corner, on one hop.
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Aug 18, 2010 9:56 AM MDT up reply actions  

Where is Junction Rox when I need him/her?

Brad Hawpe - I'm going to miss you most of all....but until then, swing that beautiful swing and maybe just one more put out at home from the RF corner, on one hop.
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Aug 18, 2010 10:05 AM MDT up reply actions  

Where indeed?

We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!

Bazinga!!

by Junction Rox on Aug 18, 2010 10:54 AM MDT up reply actions  

Hello!

Brad Hawpe - I'm going to miss you most of all....but until then, swing that beautiful swing and maybe just one more put out at home from the RF corner, on one hop.
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Aug 18, 2010 10:56 AM MDT up reply actions  

That is assuming that

He was responsible for turning around the team, instead of just riding a team that got hot.

by mkorpal on Aug 18, 2010 9:41 AM MDT up reply actions  

A team doesn't just get "hot" for 110 games

That’s a long sustained success. And the team suddenly getting hot virtually at the exact time of the coaching change doesn’t make sense.

Occam’s Razor, and such.

not as punny as SDcat00

by Mondogarage on Aug 18, 2010 9:54 AM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

But that doesn't mean it was the new coach that caused the success.

They got hot at the time of the change. Maybe it was just the change itself that caused the success.

by RoxnSox09 on Aug 18, 2010 9:59 AM MDT up reply actions  

"Change" wears off after a while

Sure, I can see a team having a great initial burst solely because of a chance of environment, but that passes.

Again, 110 games is way past the point where simply a new environment makes all the different.

not as punny as SDcat00

by Mondogarage on Aug 18, 2010 10:11 AM MDT up reply actions  

Then what happened this season?

I’m not talking about injuries. I’m talking about the approach the team has on the road when everyone is healthy. The constantly changing lineups, where players feel they have to have a good night at the plate in order to justify another start, were part of the problem that ended Hurdle’s tenure.

As I see it, last year’s team was always good, but played poorly at the beginning because of the manager and his situation. After the change, the pressure was gone and they were able to play to their potential. They were really hot for a while, then settled into the pace of the good team they were. So again, what happened this year? Most of the players are the same, although you could argue that Helton isn’t. To me, management is a large factor.

by RoxnSox09 on Aug 18, 2010 12:45 PM MDT up reply actions  

Maybe you're not talking about injuries...

…they they have had a LOT to do with the changing lineups. And because the team isn’t performing to expectations, that leads to pressing, where they’re all trying to hit six run home runs or make the perfect pitch every pitch. Trying too hard.

If last year’s team was “always good”, why was 2008’s so bad, when it was basically the same roster?

not as punny as SDcat00

by Mondogarage on Aug 18, 2010 12:49 PM MDT up reply actions  

I see where you're going

but I think we had more injuries then than we’ve had now (though my recollection is fuzzy). Maybe I am underestimating the effect of injuries this year; you could certainly argue that Helton and Hawpe were an important part of the core coming into the season, and they haven’t been at their normal levels, partly due to injury. But there are other aspects to the team’s poor performance that aren’t a direct result of being hurt, and I think one of the few things that the manager should affect is a team’s approach to the game. I’m pretty sure we can all agree that their approach on the road is the opposite of good.

by RoxnSox09 on Aug 18, 2010 12:57 PM MDT up reply actions  

I can agree that our approach has been the opposite of good

But frankly, I put more of that on Don Baylor’s shoulders than Jim Tracy’s this year.

I also think we’re underestimating the effect of Keli McGregor’s death. I don’t know how much impact it should have had, but I suspect it’s had a greater impact in ways you and I don’t see every day.

not as punny as SDcat00

by Mondogarage on Aug 18, 2010 1:04 PM MDT up reply actions  

I've been asking this question from the day he died

but was pretty much poo-poo’d that it didn’t make a difference. Maybe he had more to do with personnel decisions than we know?

Brad Hawpe - I'm going to miss you most of all....but until then, swing that beautiful swing and maybe just one more put out at home from the RF corner, on one hop.
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Aug 18, 2010 1:41 PM MDT up reply actions  

I think it has less to do with personnel decisions...

….and more to do with the fact that he was in daily contact with the baseball folks a lot more than most presidents. In the weight room, on the field, etc. And it’s hard to not feel that presence missing every day.

Nobody would ever use that as an excuse. But, on some level, it has to be a contributing factor. Just very hard to quantify.

not as punny as SDcat00

by Mondogarage on Aug 18, 2010 1:43 PM MDT up reply actions  

the universal law of professional managing

When the team is losing, it is the manager’s fault, and 99% of the fanbase will proclaim themselves smarter than the manager.

When the team is winning, it is in spite of the manager (he is fortunate to have good players) and 99% of the fanbase will STILL proclaim themselves smarter than the manager. Rough life. I wouldn’t want it

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Aug 18, 2010 10:35 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions   2 recs

You think Tracy was responsible for that run?

That somehow his “magic” and “veterantudeness” inspired them to win? You’re entitled to that opinion, but I think his best quality was being not Clint Hurdle. He diffused the tension in the clubhouse that had built up over the Hurdle situation, and the guys started playing to their potential.

by RoxnSox09 on Aug 18, 2010 9:42 AM MDT up reply actions  

I think Tracy set a tone that let the players perform

And this year, injuries have sapped the team of that ability to perform, whether because of the actual injuries, or because of the tinkering and mismatched roles that have had to take place to backfill the injuries.

In other words, this year is too much of an outlier, events-wise, to say Tracy is a bad manager. His previous # of winning records and playoff appearances suggest otherwise.

not as punny as SDcat00

by Mondogarage on Aug 18, 2010 9:56 AM MDT up reply actions  

let's also throw in lack of field leadership

Tulo and Helton being out for a big portion of the season is a major factor.

/throws SDcat09 under bus
Rowsdower! But why, Rowsdower?
SB Nation Denver

by Muzia on Aug 18, 2010 9:58 AM MDT up reply actions  

And when they were both gone on that road trip

That’s when the season really fell apart

If the 2007 Rockies can win 21 out of 22 to reach the World Series and the 2009 Rockies can come from 12 games under .500 in June to make the playoffs, why can't the 2010 Rockies make the postseason after being 51-50?

Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #1

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Aug 18, 2010 10:01 AM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

And aren't Tulo & Helton two of the Rockies with the best home/road splits?

That comparison that someone posted recently really struck me.

"Are they called the Rockies because they rock?" - 7 y.o.

by glaucophane on Aug 18, 2010 10:12 AM MDT up reply actions  

As I see it,

part of his success last year was due to staying out of the way. But he’s done the opposite this year. In fact, he’s done what people were mad at Hurdle for. And not all of it is due to injuries. Apart from Tulo, Helton, and Hawpe, there haven’t been many major injuries for position players.

by RoxnSox09 on Aug 18, 2010 10:01 AM MDT up reply actions  

not to mention

Street, Francis, DLR , Cook, Bucholz, Daley…

We are lucky to be this many games over .500 with the amount of injuries we have dealt with this year.

"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)

Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.

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by Maria M on Aug 18, 2010 10:04 AM MDT up reply actions  

Ey isn't a major player

and Fowler and Cargo only had minor injury issues. Point is, team has played the same with or without injuries.

by mkorpal on Aug 18, 2010 10:05 AM MDT up reply actions  

When have we played without injuries?

I agree the players who have been there have not played well, but it seems like we are always dealing with something

If the 2007 Rockies can win 21 out of 22 to reach the World Series and the 2009 Rockies can come from 12 games under .500 in June to make the playoffs, why can't the 2010 Rockies make the postseason after being 51-50?

Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #1

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Aug 18, 2010 10:09 AM MDT up reply actions  

2009, more or less

The writer formerly known as Jabberwocky
READ and LEARN about the business of baseball at Purple Row Academy
Eschew Obfuscation!

by Jeff Aberle on Aug 18, 2010 10:19 AM MDT up reply actions  

on "minor injury issues"

15 days on the DL is 15 days on the DL, no matter how you slice it.

That’s 15 days when you have to field a less than optimal lineup.

not as punny as SDcat00

by Mondogarage on Aug 18, 2010 10:14 AM MDT up reply actions  

He was able to stay out of the way...

….because his players were healthy, and he didn’t have to patchwork together lineups.

not as punny as SDcat00

by Mondogarage on Aug 18, 2010 10:13 AM MDT up reply actions  

The reality is sometimes event keep you from reaching you potential

It happens to many teams in many years. We got to another level of expectation last year and now we know who can’t help us get to the next level. Barmes,Hawpe,Corpas,Cook.

But this is a solid base to build on and an 86 win season while not what we wnated is respectable. We aren’t the Dbacks.

by Roxfan24 on Aug 18, 2010 10:28 AM MDT up reply actions  

I don't understand what you mean by that last part.

And I don’t think there’s any way to predict where the team would be under Hurdle. I doubt they’d be any more in contention than they are. I think that the problems Hurdle had last year (trying to make the “perfect” move, players tight because of the situation) seem to be symptomatic of Tracy right now. FWIW, I was never on the “Tracy is God” bandwagon.

by RoxnSox09 on Aug 18, 2010 9:35 AM MDT up reply actions  

Here's what I mean by that last part

Yes, there’s no way to truly predict where the team would be under Hurdle, but it’s also indisputable that the team had already tuned out Hurdle completely by last May. He’d lost the team and their respect (in large measure due to his throwing Tulo under the bus).

Now as for what I meant, you seem to be saying hey, let’s fire Tracy because he couldn’t overcome injuries to 4/5 of our starting rotation and 1/2 our position players, and still have a .580 team, when in fact, our team is still in pretty decent shape.

And given the disabled list carousel, it’s awfully hard to blame a manager who’s had to play mix and match just to field a team.

not as punny as SDcat00

by Mondogarage on Aug 18, 2010 9:41 AM MDT up reply actions  

I agree that Hurdle had lost control of the team.

And that injuries have been a big factor this year. But there are other things that a manager should be able to affect. The defense has been sloppy, and the approach on the road is horrible. Those are two things for which I believe Tracy is responsible.

Now, I don’t think we should fire him. He might not be my favorite manager, but I don’t think he’s the sole reason the Rockies are in third.

by RoxnSox09 on Aug 18, 2010 9:47 AM MDT up reply actions  

I can accept this

I’ll also never claim his as my favorite manager. In fact, I wasn’t at all in favor when he was first promoted. (My suggestion was give it to Baylor and then go outside the organization and clean house in the offseason).

But I think Tracy absolutely earned the three year deal, and has earned the right to have a less injury-plagued season to either justify the deal or not.

not as punny as SDcat00

by Mondogarage on Aug 18, 2010 9:58 AM MDT up reply actions  

Fair enough.

I’m not advocating for Tracy to be fired. I don’t think he’s the best manager, but he’s the one we’ve got. And I also agree that a season with fewer injuries might play out differently.

by RoxnSox09 on Aug 18, 2010 10:04 AM MDT up reply actions  

"All of a sudden"?

I was calling for Tracy’s head by the end of April—
though I may be unique around here in that I wanted Baylor promoted, and still think that he might work as manager, since that spot worked for him once around here

by Chrysicat on Aug 18, 2010 9:40 AM MDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't really say Baylor "worked" as a manager

Making the wild card in a shortened season was fantastic. And I’m not putting Baylor anywhere near in the class of terribad managers, but his career track record actually doesn’t even match Tracy’s.

not as punny as SDcat00

by Mondogarage on Aug 18, 2010 9:42 AM MDT up reply actions  

Baylor ruined David Nied’s arm. I never forgave him for that.

"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton

by Franchise26 on Aug 18, 2010 9:43 AM MDT up reply actions  

And if we want to talk micro managing

well, let’s just say somebody here got their user name from a fairly spectacular display of LOLMATCHUPZ managing in a playoff game….

We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!

Bazinga!!

by Junction Rox on Aug 18, 2010 10:56 AM MDT up reply actions  

for the record, i have never been a fan of jim tracy (shocker, right?), but i’m even having trouble faulting him for this team’s performance

by Andrew Martin on Aug 18, 2010 10:35 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

IAWTC

not as punny as SDcat00

by Mondogarage on Aug 18, 2010 10:37 AM MDT up reply actions  

I do

I think my problem with him is he is too much of a nice guy, a player’s manager. I want to see him call out players, not make excuses for them.

by mkorpal on Aug 18, 2010 9:30 AM MDT up reply actions  

Who says he's not calling out players in the locker room?

There’s a difference between calling out players within the context of the clubhouse, and throwing them under the bus in the context of news conference/interview questions.

You wanna lose a team toot sweet, blame a couple players publicly in the Q&A session right after a game.

not as punny as SDcat00

by Mondogarage on Aug 18, 2010 9:32 AM MDT up reply actions  

Well, he has called them out publicly a time or two

Ubaldo in the Red Sox game….and a few other instances

Brad Hawpe - I'm going to miss you most of all....but until then, swing that beautiful swing and maybe just one more put out at home from the RF corner, on one hop.
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Aug 18, 2010 9:34 AM MDT up reply actions  

No

but he is a battling personal agendas, injuries, and a lineup that is poorly constructed. He espouses the right philosophy but it has not translated on the field product.

by PinchHitLancePainter on Aug 18, 2010 9:36 AM MDT up reply actions  

Do you think consistency in putting the same lineup out typically

makes a difference?

Brad Hawpe - I'm going to miss you most of all....but until then, swing that beautiful swing and maybe just one more put out at home from the RF corner, on one hop.
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Aug 18, 2010 9:38 AM MDT up reply actions  

In a perfect world that would be great

but he has some major obstacles in doing that.

1. They did not get an additional RH bat in the offseason they sorely needed.
2. He has some players (Smith, Hawpe, Helton, Stewart) who are duck soup vs LH pitching.
3. He is dealing with a big money guy who is a franchise idol that is experiecing the Larry Bird syndrome late in his career. It is totally a day to day deal.
4. There are simply too many undisciplined hitters in this lineup and that creates many holes.

He has to put a lineup out there everyday that can compete, create matchups, etc. He has his hands tied as presently constructed, LH heavy with some discipline issues.

by PinchHitLancePainter on Aug 18, 2010 9:43 AM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

I can't disagree with any of this

I may complain about the erratic nature of Tracy’s lineup choices, but he has been dealt a limited hand in many ways

/throws SDcat09 under bus
Rowsdower! But why, Rowsdower?
SB Nation Denver

by Muzia on Aug 18, 2010 9:45 AM MDT up reply actions  

I don't disagree with lineup changes necessitated by injury

but he loves the matchup bingo, and that hasn’t always worked out….

I think about the Phillies, Cards, heck even the Padres….they don’t particularly tinker with their lineups…..and yes I know who the lineups consist of….

Brad Hawpe - I'm going to miss you most of all....but until then, swing that beautiful swing and maybe just one more put out at home from the RF corner, on one hop.
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Aug 18, 2010 9:47 AM MDT up reply actions  

I'm even okay with matchup bingo

as long as it’s consistent matchup bingo. His lineup may have a guy with great results against the opposing pitcher next to a guy who has terrible splits but happens to be good against RHP. Nonsense like that.

There’s probably logic I’m missing here, and I am obviously projecting a bit, but it has been erratic all season.

To be fair, he has thrown out a fairly consistent lineup the last month or so, to mixed results. There isn’t an easy solution here.

/throws SDcat09 under bus
Rowsdower! But why, Rowsdower?
SB Nation Denver

by Muzia on Aug 18, 2010 9:51 AM MDT up reply actions  

I think that's what I get frustrated with too.

There doesn’t seem to be any method to the madness. It seems like “Let’s try this and see what happens.”

by RoxnSox09 on Aug 18, 2010 9:53 AM MDT up reply actions  

Earl Weaver played his share of matchup bingo

Seemed to have worked just fine for him.

Matchup bingo isn’t the issue, really. And the Cards tinker with their lineup a lot. More so within the game than before it, but still…

There’s no greater in game over-manager than LaRussa, frankly. And that’s been true since he ran the White Sox.

not as punny as SDcat00

by Mondogarage on Aug 18, 2010 10:01 AM MDT up reply actions  

That's disappointing to hear.
These guys had an off day on Monday but yet hardly anyone showed up for extra batting practice.

Especially given that most of the team has trouble hitting at sea level.

"Are they called the Rockies because they rock?" - 7 y.o.

by glaucophane on Aug 18, 2010 9:27 AM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

They seem to do just fine at Petco

Brad Hawpe - I'm going to miss you most of all....but until then, swing that beautiful swing and maybe just one more put out at home from the RF corner, on one hop.
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Aug 18, 2010 9:31 AM MDT up reply actions  

I was thinking of the home/away splits posted here recently.

After last night, I wish that CarGo had taken extra batting practice, or that he could do something to help him see fastballs at sea level.

"Are they called the Rockies because they rock?" - 7 y.o.

by glaucophane on Aug 18, 2010 9:34 AM MDT up reply actions  

Analyze what you state in context

hitters there are told to forget about the long ball and focus on line drives and a quick to flat approach. Bottom line hit the ball hard on the downward plane. It works everywhere but why do they hyper focus there?

by PinchHitLancePainter on Aug 18, 2010 9:56 AM MDT up reply actions  

Because the ball rarely carries out there..

It’s a crazy ballpark. When the marine layer comes in, it significantly changes how the ball flies, even more so than ATT, I think…

Brad Hawpe - I'm going to miss you most of all....but until then, swing that beautiful swing and maybe just one more put out at home from the RF corner, on one hop.
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Aug 18, 2010 9:59 AM MDT up reply actions  

Yet the team has success there

I am driving you to a point. Maintain that focus in every venue. What works in one locale should produce results in all others. It is a regiment and approach issue.

by PinchHitLancePainter on Aug 18, 2010 10:02 AM MDT up reply actions  

If the problem started before Baylor got a hold of him than it’s Baylor’s fault for not making an adjustment in his approach at the plate. I just fail to see how bad approach equals not coachable or I’m not going to change.

If the 2007 Rockies can win 21 out of 22 to reach the World Series and the 2009 Rockies can come from 12 games under .500 in June to make the playoffs, why can't the 2010 Rockies make the postseason after being 51-50?

Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #1

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Aug 18, 2010 9:25 AM MDT up reply actions  

Life is a voyage of learning

I have seen my share of 18-25 YOs who think they know it all. Many of these guys dominate at the low rungs, they get to the bigs, and they will not deviate. Call it pride, call it stubborn, whatever you want. Bottom line is when you hit .250 and strike out 25-30% of the time you need to do some things differently. Those that do experience improvement and longevity, those that do not….

by PinchHitLancePainter on Aug 18, 2010 9:30 AM MDT up reply actions  

what would have to happen for Stewart to change this label?

Because this could kill his career earnings potential if this is going around as much as it seems to be.

by Rox Girl on Aug 18, 2010 9:35 AM MDT up reply actions  

Several things

1. Commit yourself to being the best. Work your butt off and show the organization that you desire to achieve. I hate to throw this in but if he were a midwestern kid instead of a California kid this may not be happening. It is a cultural and sectional thing as well.
2. Your father in law needs to get you in the right frame of mind. Create a process in batting practice where layer 1 is short stroke oppo activity, punching holes. layer 2 is hitting the middle and layer 3 is power strokes.
3. Someone that he feels comfortable and trusts need to get in his grill and basically explain to him what he needs to do.
4. Put action to motion. Show up everyday and take extra BP and groundballs. Work on your weakness. Develop count recognition and learn to expand and contract as the situation dictates.

by PinchHitLancePainter on Aug 18, 2010 9:52 AM MDT up reply actions  

Yes,

Because Tulo doesn’t give a sh*t. I stopped reading when you brought up California.

by mkorpal on Aug 18, 2010 9:54 AM MDT up reply actions  

Actually I should have said So Cal

I scouted that area for a team for four years and I know it very well. What I say here is not prejudicial but fact. There is a layer of entitlement there that exists like no other in the country.

by PinchHitLancePainter on Aug 18, 2010 9:59 AM MDT up reply actions  

Way to stereotype millions of people

A laid-back exterior =/= not caring or not working hard, or not being upset at a lack of performance.

Sorry, just because you don’t beat up a gatorade cooler doesn’t mean you’re not…ahem…“stewing” inside.

not as punny as SDcat00

by Mondogarage on Aug 18, 2010 10:03 AM MDT up reply actions  

The point is that Ian's a SoCal boy, so he doesn't care

and just feels entitled to be on the roster, and will be a superstar just because he is.

not as punny as SDcat00

by Mondogarage on Aug 18, 2010 10:15 AM MDT up reply actions  

Which is wrong?

You don’t think there are any southern or midwestern up and comers that feel the same way?

Brad Hawpe - I'm going to miss you most of all....but until then, swing that beautiful swing and maybe just one more put out at home from the RF corner, on one hop.
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Aug 18, 2010 10:17 AM MDT up reply actions  

I was paraphrasing PHLP

I disagreed with his position on this 10000%

not as punny as SDcat00

by Mondogarage on Aug 18, 2010 10:24 AM MDT up reply actions  

Born and raised out there, SOcal for 37 years

They just think they are better and because " they are from socal" While it can’t be a blanket statement it applies more than you think. In many walks of life out there.

by Roxfan24 on Aug 18, 2010 10:35 AM MDT up reply actions  

Well, NYCers feel the same

That doesn’t mean they don’t work hard, though.

An overinflated sense of being better isn’t the same thing, and I think that’s what PHLP’s point is, is that they are the same.

not as punny as SDcat00

by Mondogarage on Aug 18, 2010 10:38 AM MDT up reply actions  

there is a sense of entitlement that many from Socal have

that the rest of the country is just"a bunch of people who wish they lived in Cali" Obviously you can’t make a blanket statement. But it exists more than you might think.

by Roxfan24 on Aug 18, 2010 10:44 AM MDT up reply actions  

What part of SoCal are you from?

I don’t find that much in San Diego, except maybe La Jolla.

Brad Hawpe - I'm going to miss you most of all....but until then, swing that beautiful swing and maybe just one more put out at home from the RF corner, on one hop.
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Aug 18, 2010 10:46 AM MDT up reply actions  

OC and South OC

Born and raised in Buena Park. and then spent many years in Laguna and Mission Viejo.

by Roxfan24 on Aug 18, 2010 10:47 AM MDT up reply actions  

Tulo, Evan Longoria, Adrian Gonzalez and Stephen Strasburg

(to name a few) disagree with your Cali kid assessment

Brad Hawpe - I'm going to miss you most of all....but until then, swing that beautiful swing and maybe just one more put out at home from the RF corner, on one hop.
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Aug 18, 2010 10:02 AM MDT up reply actions  

Wat?

Brad Hawpe - I'm going to miss you most of all....but until then, swing that beautiful swing and maybe just one more put out at home from the RF corner, on one hop.
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Aug 18, 2010 10:06 AM MDT up reply actions  

again I ask, wat?

I’ve not heard of him being undisciplined etc…..can you explain this?

Brad Hawpe - I'm going to miss you most of all....but until then, swing that beautiful swing and maybe just one more put out at home from the RF corner, on one hop.
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Aug 18, 2010 10:08 AM MDT up reply actions  

Facebook pictures of his....

he’s a great athlete, no doubt about it, but I wouldn’t bring him up as a prime example of “hard working driven SoCal boy”

/throws SDcat09 under bus
Rowsdower! But why, Rowsdower?
SB Nation Denver

by Muzia on Aug 18, 2010 10:10 AM MDT up reply actions  

He might be a party boy

but that doesn’t mean he doesn’t work his ass off to say in shape.

Brad Hawpe - I'm going to miss you most of all....but until then, swing that beautiful swing and maybe just one more put out at home from the RF corner, on one hop.
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Aug 18, 2010 10:11 AM MDT up reply actions  

Absolutely

not all kids are the same as they come from a variety of different backgounds with parental influences that weight heavily into this. But I have scouted the NE, MW, Rocky Mountain and SoCal areas. SoCal kids have a much more laid back and let things come to them aura to their personality in general. Especially those that come from the beach communities. I have spent many hours with kids and agents in their living room telling them that they should do this and what they need to do to be successful. I am not sure any of you have ever done that.

I apoligize if I am letting the discussion devolve into a Sociology dissertation

by PinchHitLancePainter on Aug 18, 2010 10:07 AM MDT up reply actions  

Ok, they are a bit more layed back

But what the F does that have to do with their success

by mkorpal on Aug 18, 2010 10:09 AM MDT up reply actions  

It is a work ethic

mentality. Some people show up for their jobs and put in their time. Others do what they can to bust butt and get promotions, commissions, etc.. I have 300 people that work for me and I see it everyday. It is a function of self worth, your upbringing, etc.

by PinchHitLancePainter on Aug 18, 2010 10:12 AM MDT up reply actions  

Oh boy...PHLP...I respect you

I just think you are lumping a whole lot of people in a bad category.

If I move back to Colorado, and having lived in SoCal most of my adult life, will you not hire me because I worked my ass of for years and possess a California driver’s license?

Brad Hawpe - I'm going to miss you most of all....but until then, swing that beautiful swing and maybe just one more put out at home from the RF corner, on one hop.
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Aug 18, 2010 10:15 AM MDT up reply actions  

Oh, your right

I’m from Cali, so I must be a piece of sh*t who doesn’t give a rats ass about anything. Your right.

by mkorpal on Aug 18, 2010 10:15 AM MDT up reply actions  

OK, LP’s painted with a broad brush, but I really think you’re taking it a tad too personally here.

"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton

by Franchise26 on Aug 18, 2010 10:16 AM MDT up reply actions  

Your right

I should just learn to ignore this guy.

by mkorpal on Aug 18, 2010 10:17 AM MDT up reply actions  

I agree with Franchise26

The stereotype’s useful to know in a couple of ways, and one major one is reflecting that it might be an industry-wide attitude for California players. And as I was trying to point out with Bush, there are examples which we’ve seen feed into that stereotype

by Rox Girl on Aug 18, 2010 10:19 AM MDT up reply actions  

exactly

(wait, are we agreeing on something)…..?

Brad Hawpe - I'm going to miss you most of all....but until then, swing that beautiful swing and maybe just one more put out at home from the RF corner, on one hop.
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Aug 18, 2010 10:21 AM MDT up reply actions  

Further, Bush doesn't exactly fit the 'laid back Californian' stereotype...

…to me, that doesn’t mean ‘go throw frosh around on a high-school campus as an adult’; that means ’DON’T be as violent as, say, your stereotypical ex-QB from Ammybammy’…

by Chrysicat on Aug 18, 2010 10:22 AM MDT up reply actions  

I'm not.

I’m pointing out an example of where this stereotype would come from. Look, I’m not arguing that painting with a broad brush is right, I think what’s being shown by PHLP, though, is that it’s clearly happening in MLB and I can see that there are reasons why it’s happening.

by Rox Girl on Aug 18, 2010 10:27 AM MDT up reply actions  

You should have grown up in Colorado

you could have developed the rugged, disciplined work ethic of a Shawn Chacon….

We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!

Bazinga!!

by Junction Rox on Aug 18, 2010 11:00 AM MDT up reply actions  

okay I LOL'd

Brad Hawpe - I'm going to miss you most of all....but until then, swing that beautiful swing and maybe just one more put out at home from the RF corner, on one hop.
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Aug 18, 2010 11:02 AM MDT up reply actions  

I completely agree with this but to say that Ian Stewart would be a better player if he were born in Iowa is a bit of a stretch in my opinion

If the 2007 Rockies can win 21 out of 22 to reach the World Series and the 2009 Rockies can come from 12 games under .500 in June to make the playoffs, why can't the 2010 Rockies make the postseason after being 51-50?

Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #1

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Aug 18, 2010 10:16 AM MDT up reply actions  

I grew up in Colorado

and I"ve lived in San Diego for more years than I care to think about….

I think you are pretty off base here. These kids may want more out of life, but they work just as hard. I think the entitlement part is not quite true.

Brad Hawpe - I'm going to miss you most of all....but until then, swing that beautiful swing and maybe just one more put out at home from the RF corner, on one hop.
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Aug 18, 2010 10:10 AM MDT up reply actions  

Who's Matt Effin Bush?

Brad Hawpe - I'm going to miss you most of all....but until then, swing that beautiful swing and maybe just one more put out at home from the RF corner, on one hop.
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Aug 18, 2010 10:12 AM MDT up reply actions  

A really sad Padres story

/throws SDcat09 under bus
Rowsdower! But why, Rowsdower?
SB Nation Denver

by Muzia on Aug 18, 2010 10:13 AM MDT up reply actions  

that's some serious angst right there

completely justified though

/throws SDcat09 under bus
Rowsdower! But why, Rowsdower?
SB Nation Denver

by Muzia on Aug 18, 2010 10:17 AM MDT up reply actions  

And I grew up on a pig farm in Indiana

where I was up everyday at 5:00AM, fed the hogs and shoveled crap. Ate breakfast, went to school, came home practiced Bball and baseball for two hours, fed the hogs again, shoveled crap, ate dinner and went to bed at 10:00. I am an old school product of regiment and hard work. Perhaps my age makes me somewhat prejudical in this area.

When I was a player I showed up everyday 3 hours prior to batting practice and took flies, worked on my throwing and extra BP. I played ball all winter, etc.

I have a strong affinity for hard work.

by PinchHitLancePainter on Aug 18, 2010 10:18 AM MDT up reply actions  

Ian's certainly not helping himself with his Twitter account, I'm sure

It could be he has a great work ethic, but tweeting in the off days of touring NYC, shopping on Rodeo Drive, getting massages in Century City will only feed the label, if it’s correct or not.

by Rox Girl on Aug 18, 2010 10:24 AM MDT up reply actions  

I had the exact same thought re: his twitter

it’s entertaining to follow, but there sure is a ton of free time listed on there

/throws SDcat09 under bus
Rowsdower! But why, Rowsdower?
SB Nation Denver

by Muzia on Aug 18, 2010 10:26 AM MDT up reply actions  

he probably doesn't tweet

while practicing.

I would be more concerned if he were tweeting in between taking ground balls or between swings at BP…

"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)

Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.

My Photography Website

My Photography on Facebook

by Maria M on Aug 18, 2010 10:27 AM MDT up reply actions  

Dex tweeted that he was at the mile high music fest

He’s from Georgia.

by Andrew Martin on Aug 18, 2010 10:54 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

but did he grow up on a farm?

"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)

Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.

My Photography Website

My Photography on Facebook

by Maria M on Aug 18, 2010 10:55 AM MDT up reply actions  

What did CDI say?

I need to find out about the type of person I am :-)

If the 2007 Rockies can win 21 out of 22 to reach the World Series and the 2009 Rockies can come from 12 games under .500 in June to make the playoffs, why can't the 2010 Rockies make the postseason after being 51-50?

Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #1

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Aug 18, 2010 11:03 AM MDT up reply actions  

That's only if you allow it to influence your perception

A few tweets isn’t indicative of a 24/7 lifestyle. Really, are those tweets as epidemic as they are from, say, La Lohan? (I ask because I don’t follow his Twitter feed.)

Seriously, how often does he really tweet about goofing off?

not as punny as SDcat00

by Mondogarage on Aug 18, 2010 10:27 AM MDT up reply actions  

several times a day

he’s always asking people to play Xbox with him

/throws SDcat09 under bus
Rowsdower! But why, Rowsdower?
SB Nation Denver

by Muzia on Aug 18, 2010 10:28 AM MDT up reply actions  

So after a loss Tracy should remove the Xbox from the clubhouse as punishment

NO W = No Xbox :-)

If the 2007 Rockies can win 21 out of 22 to reach the World Series and the 2009 Rockies can come from 12 games under .500 in June to make the playoffs, why can't the 2010 Rockies make the postseason after being 51-50?

Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #1

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Aug 18, 2010 10:32 AM MDT up reply actions  

I was in the clubhouse before the game

yesterday and there were tons of guys on both sides playing Xbox, WII, etc. They should be out there taking extra BP and balls.

by PinchHitLancePainter on Aug 18, 2010 10:39 AM MDT up reply actions  

Fine, take the machines out, I'm in total agreement

But I’d be willing to wager that there wasn’t an unbalanced ratio of those players being from Cali versus those not playing the games being from Cali.

The younger generation, generally speaking, may not be as disciplined as earlier generations. Maybe. But it’s not because they’re from SoCal.

not as punny as SDcat00

by Mondogarage on Aug 18, 2010 10:41 AM MDT up reply actions  

I think the socal thing is being taken way to seriously

I think PHLP is just saying its probably part of Stewart’s work ethic, not that everyone from there will have work ethic problems. Bottom line, Stewart has a work ethic problem according to multiple people who have interacted with him.

by humaDONT on Aug 18, 2010 11:33 AM MDT up reply actions  

Well, I'm not sure that "a few scouts watching yesterday's game"

constitutes interaction.

Has there ever been word from any of his actual coaches or teammates indicating any of them perceive a lack of work ethic?

Maybe there is, but I haven’t seen it.

not as punny as SDcat00

by Mondogarage on Aug 18, 2010 11:34 AM MDT up reply actions  

this is what I want to know

"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)

Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.

My Photography Website

My Photography on Facebook

by Maria M on Aug 18, 2010 11:35 AM MDT up reply actions  

Exactly. This perception may actually exist

But I don’t take that as gospel just from a PHLP comment on a Rockpile. (I’m not denying it exists, either.)

If it’s actually out there, there should be some actual indication somewhere from someone who’s actually in the work environment with Stewie on a regular basis.

not as punny as SDcat00

by Mondogarage on Aug 18, 2010 11:40 AM MDT up reply actions  

I've seen it/heard it before.

This perception has definitely been out to some degree, even dating back to his Asheville days when we were hearing about his vanity license plate in connection to it. This is why I think he might need to be proactive in changing the perception.

by Rox Girl on Aug 18, 2010 11:45 AM MDT up reply actions  

I agree, I would like to hear more about it

I’ve heard about it a couple time on the Klat and Kreckman (sp?) show on 1510. Why was that canceled by the way!!?? It sounds like PHLP has seen it first hand so i’m just starting to believe it that he has a bad work ethic because he hasn’t panned out like a lot of his have thought he should.

by humaDONT on Aug 18, 2010 11:45 AM MDT up reply actions  

At what point in time

do we start thinking that maybe his talent ceiling was just much lower than most scouts thought it was – and stop blaming it on work ethic.

"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)

Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.

My Photography Website

My Photography on Facebook

by Maria M on Aug 18, 2010 11:47 AM MDT up reply actions  

This, sadly, is my thinking

He’s just not as ultimately great a hitter as he was projected.

Hey, that happens when you’re drafting 17-19 year old kids. Having a “high ceiling” doesn’t mean a fait accompli that the ceiling is ever reached.

not as punny as SDcat00

by Mondogarage on Aug 18, 2010 11:49 AM MDT up reply actions  

happens all the time

in other sports – look at Jamarcus Russel – or Tim Tebow…

"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)

Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.

My Photography Website

My Photography on Facebook

by Maria M on Aug 18, 2010 11:51 AM MDT up reply actions  

at the point you want to take an easy way out for him?

It’s clear Stewart has monstrous natural power, he’s a gifted athlete and always has been.

by Rox Girl on Aug 18, 2010 11:52 AM MDT up reply actions  

Of course he is a gifted

athlete – all players who make it to the Major Leauges are.

Doesn’t mean that somewhere along the line someone didn’t over estimate his raw talent.

"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)

Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.

My Photography Website

My Photography on Facebook

by Maria M on Aug 18, 2010 11:56 AM MDT up reply actions  

It wasn't cancelled

they left for another new station and split up their show. Also, Kiz joined Armstrong in the morning and I refuse to listen now…sad

Brad Hawpe - I'm going to miss you most of all....but until then, swing that beautiful swing and maybe just one more put out at home from the RF corner, on one hop.
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Aug 18, 2010 11:49 AM MDT up reply actions  

Where are Klat and Kreckman now???

That was IMO the best show on radio in town. I can’t stand anything else on 1510 now and IMO! the fan is terrible.

by humaDONT on Aug 18, 2010 11:53 AM MDT up reply actions  

I think they went to something called

The Ticket 87.7 FM maybe? I couldn’t find a website for the station so I can’t stream it online. But I know they each have their own show now, not a team anymore…:(

Brad Hawpe - I'm going to miss you most of all....but until then, swing that beautiful swing and maybe just one more put out at home from the RF corner, on one hop.
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Aug 18, 2010 11:58 AM MDT up reply actions  

oh bummer

they were so funny together. AND they stayed on topic. Thats my problem with sports radio, random tangents, not funny, and most hosts talk way too much about themselves

by humaDONT on Aug 18, 2010 12:07 PM MDT up reply actions  

I agree. When I was in Denver

if I was in the car, I always had 1510 on especially in the afternoon. Loved that team.
Mac and Doog are okay I guess

Brad Hawpe - I'm going to miss you most of all....but until then, swing that beautiful swing and maybe just one more put out at home from the RF corner, on one hop.
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Aug 18, 2010 12:09 PM MDT up reply actions  

you liked Klatt?

i never listened to him on 1510 but I sometimes listen when im driving around to 87.7 with him and CJ.

I cant stand him and think hes a giant idiot. He said the other day that the entire Broncos season is going to rely on the play of Marquand Cox the 5th round CB the broncos just selected. just one example of things hes said that riled me up while driving

by purplesocks on Aug 18, 2010 12:31 PM MDT up reply actions  

my perception of Stewart's Twitter feed

is mostly irrelevant, except for how it will influence what I write about him. I’m not the one who writes his checks. What I’m saying is that he should probably be more cognizant of how people who it really would be relevant for take it. And

by Rox Girl on Aug 18, 2010 10:32 AM MDT up reply actions