NL West Report: Sifting Through the Settling Trade Dust Out West
About two years ago, I read "The Economist" by JC Bradbury, which did a lot to develop my interest (and chops) for baseball analysis. Consequently, I really respect what the guy has to say, but last Friday, he tweeted this:
As an economist, it pains me to read stories about winners and losers in trades. Trade is mutually beneficial: that's Econ 101.
The huge fallacy in that statement is the assumption that both parties have made intelligent decisions for themselves in said trade. As we saw this weekend, that is not always a safe assumption in the NL West. So with that, I'm going to name winners and losers at the trade deadline.
Padres - A
Notable Moves: Traded for IF Miguel Tejada, giving up RH RP Wynn Pelzer (7/29). Traded for OF Ryan Ludwick for the cost of RHP Corey Kluber and LHP Nick Greenwood (7/31).
Commentary: Jed Hoyer managed to significantly upgrade two positions in the lineup without parting with significant prospects in return. It is hard to argue then that it wasn't a greatly successful first deadline for Hoyer. Tejada is way past his days as an elite (or even above average) hitter, but he is a significant upgrade over Everth Cabrera at short, who has remembered finally that he's in the major leagues. Ryan Ludwick represents the biggest bat entering the NL West by far, and Hoyer pried him away for two C prospects (according to John Sickels), with neither placing in the top 20 in the system. He ranks Pelzer #5 overall, but that is a great deal higher than any other ranking you'll find. The creativity Hoyer showcased to construct that three-team trade - when the Cardinals weren't looking to move Ludwick - should give Padres' fans confidence going forward with him at the helm.
Rockies - B
Notable Moves: None.
Commentary: Could the Rockies have used a bat or elite starting pitcher? Yes. Would those trades have been smart? Probably not. It is good to see Dan O'Dowd has not panicked like in the Kimera Bartee-Chone Figgins days, or as Minnesota GM Bill Smith did this year. The reality is the that Rockies are suspended between being in the thick of contention and being out of it completely. Small moves could have helped, but those names that fit the bill to sell (Joe Beimel, Randy Flores, Clint Barmes) were not anything in the way of major league help or enticing minor leaguers. The timing and mysterious extent of Todd Helton's injury had to be a huge headache for O'Dowd, leaving it difficult to make deals that would allow Helton his chance to prove he is healthy while keeping the roster adequately deep should his bat fall flat again.
Diamondbacks - C-
Notable Moves: Traded RHP Dan Haren for LHP Joe Saunders, RHP Rafael Rodriguez, LHP Patrick Corban and LHP Tyler Skaggs. Traded RHP Edwin Jackson for RHP Daniel Hudson and LHP David Holmberg. Traded C Chris Snyder and SS Pedro Ciriaco for OF Ryan Church, IF Bobby Crosby and RHP D.J. Carrasco (7/31). Traded RHP Chad Qualls to Tampa Bay for PTBNL.
Commentary: First and foremost, it should be understood the sole purpose of the trade deadline for Arizona this year was salary purging, and it is undeniable that interim GM Jerry DiPoto accomplished that. DiPoto included cash in the Snyder deal only, purging around $47.6 mil in contract obligations from those four players, $6.8mil over the last two months of this season. For a team wanting to start over, DiPoto freed up room on the payroll without sacrificing his any of his offensive weapons. We know all too well what the Padres have done going with youth after purging payroll, and that seems to be the plan in Phoenix.
With that said, some of the players received are underwhelming to the point that it is hard to wonder if better deals could be had. Snyder seemed to be a hot commodity, yet DiPoto had to kick in $3mil and acquire two replacement level players with an average reliever to get rid of him. Salary relief included, the prevailing opinion is that Haren should have fetched more. Selling "low" on him really hurt. Getting Tampa Bay to eat all of Qualls' salary is a complete win, and the Jackson trade seems to be a positive for a rebuilding team. It seems the talent sold by DiPoto should have brought in better prospects, though Hudson is a huge win in the Jackson trade.
Giants - D
Notable Moves: Traded OF John Bowker and RHP Joe Martinez for LHP Javier Lopez (7/31). Traded RHP Daniel Turpen for RHP Ramon Ramirez (7/31). Signed Pat Burrell (5/29).
Commentary: The Giants needed a hitter, and they failed to land one. After being tied to Corey Hart, Prince Fielder, David DeJesus, Jose Guillen, Scott Podsednik, Kelly Johnson, Jose Bautista, Adam LaRoche, and Josh Willingham, getting absolutely no offensive help is disappointing at best, complete playoff-prevention at worst. In a vacuum, the Ramirez trade is a steal, buying low on a talented reliever while just giving up a ho-hum 24-year old AA reliever. Sabean overpaid for the LOOGY (who has better numbers against RH this year), handing the Pirates two cost-controlled pieces who have yet to get a long look at the major league level. Neither are top prospects, but Lopez isn't worth both under any circumstances. Both trades improve the big league club, but nothing close to what the Giants need.
Dodgers - F
Notable Moves: Traded RHP James McDonald and OF Andrew Lambo for RHP Octavio Dotel. Traded IF Blake DeWitt, RHP Kyle Smit and RHP Brett Wallach for LHP Ted Lilly and IF Ryan Theriot. Traded C Lucas May and RHP Elisaul Pimentel to Kansas City for OF Scott Podsednik (7/29).
Commentary: It is undeniable that the Dodgers are a better team than a week ago, but that doesn't mean Ned Colletti was smart. For the second straight season, Colletti overpaid for a big name reliever by surrendering a top offensive prospect, which should be #1 on the DO NOT DO list for GMs. Dotel will help the pen, but he'll only get about 20 IP at most. But what did Colletti give up for him? The Dodgers' top two overall prospects according to Baseball America before the 2009 season. Both have fallen pretty significantly in prestige since then, and neither are can't miss prospects, but they are two upside cost controlled chips flipped for a relief pitcher. Meanwhile, the Dodgers are in fourth place. Can you say panic?
Ted Lilly is a huge upgrade in the rotation over Carlos Monasterios or John Ely. Truth. He could really help the Dodgers improve down the stretch, though they had to acquire a poor man's Jamey Carroll in the deal as well. Lilly has the worst strikeout rate in his career this season, so the best version of Lilly might not be getting off the plane at LAX, but still, he's an improvement. Even though I'm not a big believer in DeWitt, this trade doesn't make a lot of sense given the Dodgers' spot in the standings. Neither prospect in the Podsednik deal is too valuable to lose.
In the last three years, Colletti has traded Josh Bell, Jon Meloan, Carlos Santana, Andrew Lambo and James McDonald (all top ten prospects at some point) for Casey Blake, the DFAed George Sherrill and Octavio Dotel. Brilliant. It isn't as if the McCourt divorce will be resolved soon, freeing up significant money in coming seasons to buy success.
The reality is there's no money there. He would have absorbed a lot more than $3.3mil in salary to keep prospects if he had the ability to. Everything smacks of going for broke in this small window left, before next year's team is in a far more difficult situation. Remember, Andre Ethier, Chad Billingsley, James Loney, Russell Martin, Hong-Chih Kuo, Jonathan Broxton, Rafael Furcal and Matt Kemp will all be due big raises in 2011 in addition to $7million paid out to players no longer on the team. Don't be surprised if at least one of those eight players are traded this offseason. Consider Colletti made these trades for a team that is eight games out in the division (in fourth place) and 6.5 games out of the wild card.
For as much grief as Dan O'Dowd and the Monforts have had in this town, we've never seen anything like this.
Team capsules after the jump.
NL West Report
Arizona (39-66, 5th, W1, 23 GB)
Last Week: 1-4. 0-3 @ Phillies. 2-1 @ Mets.
Divisional Change: Lost 1.0 games to first place San Diego
This Week: 4 game home series vs. Nationals. 3 game home series vs. Padres.
News: If you're curious about the nitty-gritty details about the payroll shedding in the desert, Nick Piecoro has compiled it for you.
It seemed Edwin Jackson might be safe in Arizona with the trade of Dan Haren, but as the team continued to spiral downward, Jackson got shopped hard. As it turns out, Snakepitters seem to love the return for Jackson, as it is a real possibility Daniel Hudson will be more valuable the rest of this season alone. Hudson was rated as the White Sox' #1 prospect by Kevin Goldstein before the season, and he wasted no time making an impression, driving in two runs and allowing just one over eight innings in his Arizona debut yesterday.
Here's the reaction to the Snyder trade by Snakepitters, if you've been wondering. The other starter, David Holmberg, has been drawing early comparisons to Brett Anderson, former D-Back farmhand and current Athletic.
Although Hudson and Crosby have already reported to the D-Backs, Ryan Church will wait until tomorrow to join the team. It is pretty undeniable that Jerry DiPoto has made his mark on the franchise in short time, for better or worse.
DiPoto quickly came under fire a week ago when defending the Haren trade by pointing out the number of WINZ Joe Saunders has had in the last three years. Nick Piecoro responds to that criticism here.
Brandon Webb suffered a setback in his bullpen session last week, ending it after just a few pitches due to difficulty getting loose. Nick Piecoro has an enlightening commentary:
It’s another day that hasn’t gone as planned for Webb. He has gone from hoping he’d be ready for Opening Day to now saying he’s on on board with the idea of speeding up the return by trying to come back as a reliever. Unfortunately, we have to wonder if even that is possible at this point. We sure hope it is. But if you can’t get loose in this weather – it’s warm and muggy – that’s not a good sign at all.
After failing his physical, Arizona's 1st round pick Barret Loux has reported to a team in the Cape Cod League in hopes of improving his draft status next year.
Transactions: Traded RHP Edwin Jackson for RHP Damiel Hudson and LHP David Holmberg. Traded C Chris Snyder and SS Pedro Ciriaco for IF Bobby Crosby, OF Ryan Church, and RHP D.J. Carrasco. Recalled C John Hester and optioned RHP Rafael Rodriguez. Optioned OF Cole Gillespie.
Injuries: The Diamondbacks managed to finish a whole month without a setback to Brandon Webb. It was only a matter of time, as he had to cut his Wednesday bullpen session short. Kris Benson was transferred to the 60-day DL on Friday.

Los Angeles (54-51, 4th, L5, 8.0 GB, 6.5 GB WC)
Last Week: 1-5. 1-2 @ Padres. 0-3 @ Giants. This is the team most of the country thinks will make a run at the playoffs? Thanks for the help in the Wild Card standings, Los Angeles.
Divisional Change: Lost 2.0 games to first place San Diego and fell into 4th place in the division. Lost 3.5 games in the Wild Card standings.
This Week: 4 game home series vs. Padres. 3 game home series vs. Nationals.
News: The biggest acquisition the Dodgers made was clearly Ted Lilly. He gives the Dodgers a punchers chance of making up ground in the NL West, assuming he performs like Brad Penny did last year in San Francisco.
TrueBlueLA's Phil Gurnee was not shy his opinions of the Lilly trade:(Colletti's) penchant for trading the future for the present is gutting the Dodgers of some fine cost controlled players.
This team has bigger problems then trying to compete for a 2010 playoff spot, they need some players for 2011, and trading your starting second baseman for a 2010 rental borders on massive incompetence. This is not a playoff team, and Ted Lilly or PodBoy is not going to change that.
Bill Plaschke of the LA Times thinks the Dodgers' chances of competing are dead, yet seems to like the trades for the Dodgers. There's obviously a disconnect in his brain, because there is no sensical way for those two thoughts to coexist. I'm not going to "give Colletti credit" for bringing in those "names."
If you missed this ESPN article on the McCourt divorce, check it out. The moral: the Dodgers are in trouble.
Eric Stephen review's Los Angeles' tough July.
He also does a good job of diverting the attention of his fans from the poor play on and off the field by pointing out what a dominant season Rafael Furcal is having.
Jonathan Broxton is tired. That has to be the explanation. Last night, Broxton served up a 2-run home run in a 2-1 loss. That's called a blown save. Tony Jackson of ESPNLosAngeles seems concerned.
Transactions: Outrighted RHP Justin Miller to AAA Albuquerque. Traded C Lucas May and RHP Elisaul Pimentel to Kansas City for OF Scott Podsednik. Traded IF Blake DeWitt, RHP Brett Wallach and RHP Kyle Smit for LHP Ted Lilly and IF Ryan Theriot. Traded OF Andrew Lambo and RHP James McDonald for RHP Octavio Dotel. Signed SS Juan Castro
Injuries: Manny Ramirez is progressing well from his strained calf. He will be re-evaluated this week but is still expected to be out another three weeks. Clayton Kershaw is not injured but shows up below due to his suspension. Andre Ethier likewise is not injured but is in the widget below for taking time off for the birth of his child. Ronald Belisario is on the restricted list for substance abuse.
San Diego (61-42, 1st, W1)
Last Week: 3-3. 2-1 vs. Dodgers. 1-2 vs. Marlins. The Padres are really annoying. They looked to be staring at a bad sweep at home against the Marlins with Josh Johnson on the hill, but the Scrappies managed to score five runs and win. The Padres are really annoying.
Divisional Change: Lost 1.5 games to 2nd place San Francisco.
This Week: 4 game road series @ Dodgers. 3 game road series @ Diamondbacks.
News: It would seem to be good to be a Padres fan right about now. They have emerged as big winners at the trade deadline. The big move obviously was trading for Ryan Ludwick. Here is GasLampBall's reaction to the acquisition, which is about as positive as you will ever find.
The Padres were interviewed about their new teammate. Who would have ever though "World Series" would cross Adrian Gonzalez' lips on July 31 while wearing a San Diego Padres?
Miguel Tejada will play many roles for the Padres, and he's excited about it.
Barry Bloom of MLB.com pegs the Padres as one of the top five winners at the deadline. Then again, he said the Dodgers were too....
Transactions: Traded RHP Corey Kluber and LHP Nick Greenwood in a three team trade for OF Ryan Ludwick. DFA'ed OF Quintin Berry and optioned OF Aaron Cunningham to AAA Portland. Traded RH RP Wynn Pelzer for IF Miguel Tejada.
Injuries: Kyle Blanks will have to undergo Tommy John surgery and will miss 7-10 months recovering. That means he not only won't be back by Spring Training, but he will be out until mid-season next year. An MRI on David Eckstein last Tuesday revealed his calf injury was just a strain. Mike Adams felt "confident" after a bullpen session Thursday and could return soon. Placed Oscar Salazar on the 15-day DL with a strained Achilles.

San Francisco (61-45, 2nd, W3, 1.5 GB, Lead WC)
Last Week: 5-2. 2-2 vs. Marlins. 3-0 vs. Dodgers
Divisional Change: Gained 1.5 games on San Diego for the second consecutive week. Extended their lead in the Wild Card standings to 2.0 games.
This Week: 2 game road series @ Rockies. 4 game road series @ Braves. This is precisely the type of week that could slow the Giants. Winning at Coors Field is tough enough, but the Braves are a blistering 34-13 at home.
News: Not surprisingly, McCovey Chronicles was very upset at the Javier Lopez trade. They seem to have a strong attachment to John Bowker (probably too strong for a 27-year-old), and Grant compares Bowker's career progression to Oriole Luke Scott.
Transactions: Called up IF Ryan Rohlinger. Assigned LHP Dontrelle Willis to AZL Giants. Traded OF John Bowker and RHP Joe Martinez for LHP Javier Lopez. Traded AAA RHP Daniel Turpen for RHP Ramon Ramirez.
Injuries: Brian Wilson was unavailable for Friday' game with back spasms and is day-to-day. I'm betting he overexerted himself while bending down to color in his shoes with a Sharpie. Placed Eugenio Velez on the 15-day July 25 with a head contusion
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/waits for Dodgers fan response
"No Mission Too Difficult, No Sacrifice Too Great—Duty First" - 1st Infantry Division Motto
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There are some golden ones
http://www.truebluela.com/2010/7/31/1597626/ted-lilly-finally-comes-home-at-a#comments
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Aug 2, 2010 12:41 PM MDT up reply actions
I haven't read the above links but my reaction to the Dodgers trade...
RMN’s famous Dodger fan Dad would probably concur that Branch Rickey’s spinning at a few extra thousand RPM in his grave. Never completely Denude the farm.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Oh god I lol’d
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by UZ on Aug 2, 2010 6:54 PM MDT up reply actions
That is sad to hear about Webb
he was so dominant a couple years ago, and he had the same surgery the Francis is back pitching from. I don’t think he will have much success as a reliever.
The only difference between love and baseball is a "G."
JFK
Webb was one of
the few good things about the D’Backs. Or the only thing—except when he was pitching against the Rockies.
"No Mission Too Difficult, No Sacrifice Too Great—Duty First" - 1st Infantry Division Motto
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
SB Nation Denver - The regional hub for Denver sports!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.
Brad Hawpe
is disappointed Webb isn’t pitching…
The only difference between love and baseball is a "G."
JFK
No joke.
Hawpe didn’t just rent Webb, he owned.
Oh, now be honest, NL West rivals, warriors to warriors. You do prefer it this way, don't you, as it was meant to be? No peace in our time. "Once more unto the breach, dear friends."
by jasontheuncatchable on Aug 2, 2010 1:34 PM MDT up reply actions
is this
a Rockies blog or an anti-Dodgers blog. I will be back later to comment…..but what you are missing is that McDonald and Lambo are not top 10 DODGERS prospects anymore. May is a strikeout machine.
raygu
www.faketeams.com
www.sbnation.com
Even TrueBlueLA hated the Dodgers trades
It isn’t just here. You should read a lot closer. I pointing out that Lambo and McDonald have fallen out of favor a lot IN THE ARTICLE. I also said that May wasn’t a piece worth worrying about losing.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Aug 2, 2010 2:17 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
But
Who says it can’t be both a Rockies blog and an anti-Dodgers blog?
"It's a fez. I'm wearing a fez now. Fezes are cool."
Of course it can
we are versatile multi-taskers. Like Chone Figgins without the really stupid contract or the painful connection to Kimera Bartee…
Bazinga!
can I join the anti-Dodgers blog?
btw muzia and I know about your little TBLA meetup and you all should be very afraid.
Because we’re coming.
by Andrew Martin on Aug 2, 2010 4:03 PM MDT up reply actions
i want to meet Eric
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Aug 2, 2010 4:11 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
especially cause we traded for him.
And that one is low and outside, Eldred takes it for ball four.
by frightened inmate #2 on Aug 2, 2010 4:42 PM MDT up reply actions
An Andrew
not naming names
Rowsdower! But why, Rowsdower?
WHEN CHICKS HAVE HOT FRIENDS AND THERE MIGHT BE MORE THAN ONE HOT FRIEND DUCKS FLY TOGETHER
Denver.SBNation.com
Eric at TrueBlueLA says the Rodgers need a near record breaking finish to make the trades worthwhile
http://www.truebluela.com/2010/8/2/1601304/dodgers-need-a-near-record-57-to
An appropriate risk?
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Aug 2, 2010 4:43 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Oh no, raygu, it's the anti-Dodgers blog!
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
Better than the Cardinals getting Lou Brock
If you’re a Pads/Rox fan, at any rate.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
good trade
dewitt and a few low A prospects for Lilly and Theriot is a solid trade/
raygu
www.faketeams.com
www.sbnation.com
by Ray Guilfoyle on Aug 2, 2010 7:16 PM MDT up reply actions
Except Dewitt is better than Theriot and Lilly will be gone after the season.
So if you don’t make the playoffs why bother
tell me
if the Rockies end the season 1 game out of the wildcard or the division title, will you be asking why the O’Dowd didn;t make a deal at the deadine?
raygu
www.faketeams.com
www.sbnation.com
by Ray Guilfoyle on Aug 2, 2010 9:33 PM MDT up reply actions
none of that would be on DOD because the team underachieved
there wasn’t a single upgrade to be had at the deadline for us, so why make moves to make moves like Coletti did
Rowsdower! But why, Rowsdower?
WHEN CHICKS HAVE HOT FRIENDS AND THERE MIGHT BE MORE THAN ONE HOT FRIEND DUCKS FLY TOGETHER
Denver.SBNation.com
there were upgrades to be had
its just the price was too high.
i would consider Dunn an upgrade, haren would have been an upgrade too but the price on both were too high
No, if that happens
we’ll be asking why Andrew McCutchen always turns into Superman against the Rockies and why we had to encounter the Marlins when Donnie Murphy decided to have the one relevant week of his entire career.
Bazinga!
Or we'll be cursing the Padres
for yet another run-scoring infield single by Yorvit.
Looks like the Padres are doing it again tonight, btw.
"Are they called the Rockies because they rock?" - 7 y.o.
One of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard
Dick Enberg and his sidekick complaining about the Dodgers scoring a couple runs without a hard hit ball. This after the Padres put together their usual 88 bloops and rollers to score 5 runs in the top of the same inning. Also after they somehow managed to avoid giving up a run while allowing 5 straight hits.
The only question is when Beelzebub arrives to collect all those souls he’s owed in Sandy Eggo.
Bazinga!
by Junction Rox on Aug 2, 2010 10:03 PM MDT up reply actions
Leggo my Eggo

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No we'll be asking why the Dodgers had to be so dreadful in late July/early August
and lose five (about to be six) straight games and counting to the Padres and Giants.
If the 2007 Rockies can win 21 out of 22 to reach the World Series and the 2009 Rockies can come from 12 games under .500 in June to make the playoffs, why can't the 2010 Rockies make the postseason after being 51-50?
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #1
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Aug 2, 2010 10:01 PM MDT up reply actions 6 recs
Probably not...
because we didn’t really like the deals out there. And, (pardon a little Schadenfreude) the Rockies actually have a next year to think about! LA will have a high-profile, celebrity-studded special Divorce Court.
Go Bruce!
It's not about hateing the dodgers so much as feeling sorry for them...
The killed off too much of their future, and the current players know they won’t exist as a unit much longer. Kinda makes it hard to perform ya know.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
you really need to read more carefully
Just because Lilly will be an upgrade doesn’t mean it was a good trade. He will have about ten starts this year and then he is gone. Given the steep climb back into contention, it will take a whole lot more than Lilly to make the Dodgers legitimate contenders. So while Lambo and McDonald have both lost luster, why trade upper level prospects for ten essentially wasted starts? Making the team better now isn’t always the most important aspect of evaluating trades. When you’re in fourth place, it had better not be the most important
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Aug 2, 2010 2:22 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
To be fair, the Dodgers have to pick up every extra win this year
How else is Frank McCourt going to further his master plan to double ticket prices over the next eight years while slashing payroll?
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
Given that the Dodgers are community property...
and both Jamie and Frank want ‘em, shouldn’t the judge just cut the team in half…?
Hey, just trying to help!
Go Bruce!
It's not that simple....
Frank alleges Jamie signed a document giving up any claim to the team….Jamie disagrees. Hilarity ensues.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
I didn't mean some sort of joint ownership, I meant they make two teams from one!
Bwahahahaha!
Go Bruce!
Well, given their roster, they can make a decent AAA and AAAA team out of it...
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
But even if that holds, he will still owe her 50% of any value above the value at the time of her Sig.
Which is more than he can afford since he’s BROKE
Just looked at the Dodgers schedule and it's an absolute beast
They will be lucky to finish over .500 with the road they have to travel
If the 2007 Rockies can win 21 out of 22 to reach the World Series and the 2009 Rockies can come from 12 games under .500 in June to make the playoffs, why can't the 2010 Rockies make the postseason after being 51-50?
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #1
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Aug 2, 2010 10:28 PM MDT up reply actions
Forget the road, they're getting killed by San Diego...at home.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
Poor choice of words on my part
Their schedule is brutal no matter where they play. What I mean is that 29 of thier next 35 games are against teams with records above .500 including 6 against the Pads, 6 against the Rockies, 6 against the Phils, and and games against the Giants, Braves, and Reds.
If the 2007 Rockies can win 21 out of 22 to reach the World Series and the 2009 Rockies can come from 12 games under .500 in June to make the playoffs, why can't the 2010 Rockies make the postseason after being 51-50?
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #1
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Aug 2, 2010 10:35 PM MDT up reply actions
Grade F because....
10 starts of Lilly’s upgrade isn’t going to get the Dodgers anywhere near the WC, so giving up those players (and having to take back The Riot) is a net negative.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
two months left
two years ago the Mets squandered a 7 game lead in September——it can happen.
I still don’t see where the PANIC response comes from? He made trades to improve the team this season. You do that by giving up prospects in most cases. He gave up prospects that are in teh 10-20 range in teh organization.
If he had made no moves, he would have received an A?
raygu
www.faketeams.com
www.sbnation.com
by Ray Guilfoyle on Aug 2, 2010 2:28 PM MDT up reply actions
Yes, it "can" happen
That it’s mathematically possible doesn’t mean that making that particular trade was anything close to a good idea.
If Colletti had made no moves, that would probably have been worth a C. I don’t mind the Podsednik trade one bit. The Dotel trade was terrible, imho. But the Lilly trade…..it doesn’t nothing but hurt the Dodgers longer term without helping them enough this year to make a difference.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
Trading Dewitt
in the Lilly trade hurts them longterm? they traded a few low A pitchers who won’t amount to much….so how do you think it hurts long term?
raygu
www.faketeams.com
www.sbnation.com
by Ray Guilfoyle on Aug 2, 2010 2:36 PM MDT up reply actions
Because they had to take Theriot back. Dewitt >>> Theriot
And there is no chance in hell (or divorce court) that Lilly is a Dodger in 2011.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
nope
raygu
www.faketeams.com
www.sbnation.com
by Ray Guilfoyle on Aug 2, 2010 7:16 PM MDT up reply actions
did i give the Rockies an A for making no moves?
“it can happen”. Of course it can. Though it rarely did. Ned effectively traded young cost controlled players and took on payroll for a very cash-strapped franchise in hopes that the 1 in 30 scenario takes place. 7 game leads aren’t often squandered, and it is a good bet you’ll be sitting at home in October with nothing to show for Lilly’s presence. Rockies fans know about miraculous comebacks, but no one here would have wanted to improve the club now at that cost
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Aug 2, 2010 2:49 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Two comp picks should help to even it out though
But I don’t understand trading for Dotel. I really don’t see the point in doing that.
i dont think the Dodgers can afford the risk of offering him arbitration
If he accepts, that’s one more in their pile of eight that they’ll have to pay. As is, they may have to trade from that group. Plus, what good are draft picks if you can’t sign them?
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Aug 2, 2010 4:05 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Dotel has a relatively affordable option IIRC
by Andrew Martin on Aug 2, 2010 4:06 PM MDT up reply actions
i think the draft pick comment related to Lilly
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Aug 2, 2010 4:08 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
I don't think Lilly would accept arbitration
He is getting up there in age, and is having a solid season. He will probably be looking for multiple seasons on his next contract.
Belisario
is on the restricted list. Needed a RHed veteran back there with Belisario out. Jansen is solid, but not proven.
Plus, the pen is solid now with Broxton, Kuo, Dotel, and Jansen….and even stronger when Belisario returns
raygu
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by Ray Guilfoyle on Aug 2, 2010 7:18 PM MDT up reply actions
Belisario is eligible to come off the restricted list in four days
And is already back working out with the team. I suppose it does protect his arm from Torre a bit, though.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
Yeah, the Mets squandered a 7 game lead
But the top three teams in the NL East didn’t collapse enough to let a team move up from fourth and go to the playoffs, did they?
"It's a fez. I'm wearing a fez now. Fezes are cool."
for what it is worth
I would have given the Rockies an F had they traded comparable pieces (Esmil Rogers, Charles Blackmon, Chris Nelson, Chris Balcom Miller, another pitcher) (disclaimer: without looking them up more, I can’t be sure those are the best comps) for Dotel, Lilly and Theriot. And the Rockies are in a comparable position.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Aug 2, 2010 2:32 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Bonus points to the LA fans that were telling the Cubs fans DeWitt was bad defensively compared to Theriot. lolol
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KLaw
seems to think Theriot is better defensively
raygu
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by Ray Guilfoyle on Aug 2, 2010 7:24 PM MDT up reply actions
KLaw
Has apparently never watched Theriot play.
The 09/10 Colorado Rockies: Starring Johnny Herrera as THE ANSWER
THIS IS BUFFALO NATION GODZILLA HAS AWAKEN - abayarde
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by UZ on Aug 2, 2010 7:29 PM MDT up reply actions
yeah ok
raygu
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by Ray Guilfoyle on Aug 2, 2010 7:32 PM MDT up reply actions
Dodgers core contracts
according to Cots contracts, Broxton, Ethier, Kemp, and Furcal are under contract for 2011, with their contracts increasing a total of $13 million. That will be offset by the $5 million they will save by not tendering Martin. Billingsley and Loney will be due raises.
With all that said, it would not surprise me to see them deal one or two of their core in the offseason….and would not be surprised Kemp is one of them. I have a feeling Mattingley will want him out.
raygu
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Dodgers are in a state of despair
inexplicable, considering how close this team was to the World Series two years in a row. Rather than accept that Colletti had little chance or money for a postseason run this year, he could have done the right thing and just sat on his hands. But he didn’t, and now Dodger fans will have to live with the consequences of it for years to come. At least Casey Blake and George Sherrill contributed to their late-year surges in ’08 and ’09. No such luck with this crew of misfits that they patched together over the weekend.
Having said all that, I don’t think there’s much chance at all that the Dodgers trade Kemp. Even with the disappointing season, there’d be an all-out revolt from the fanbase, in addition to all the other stuff we’ve had to endure. Same goes for Martin, who’s been even more disappointing, and for a lot longer. The Dodgers still need a catcher, and with Lucas May battling the brutal midwestern summers and Carlos Santana batting for his brutal team, no one is going to endure AJ Ellis and a ~.200 batting average for an entire season. IMHO, of course.
consequences
of dealing who? Lambo and his love for weed, McDonald and his inconsistencies, May and his strikeouts? What will they have to live with? they still have their current top 10 prospects in my opinion…..Gordon, Martin, Withrow, Miller, Sands, RDLR, Jansen, Webster among others.
raygu
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by Ray Guilfoyle on Aug 2, 2010 9:31 PM MDT up reply actions
You are putting a lot of faith
in the failure of a whole lot of prospects who have been highly regarded at some point in their career.
These trades succeed if:
1. Lilly pitches the Dodgers into the playoffs this year
2. Dotel stengthens the bullpen enough to put them in the playoffs this year or next year.
3. THE RIOT suddenly turns into a force of nature and carries the team to the playoffs (hey, Sci-Fi is always fun)
They fail if:
1. Lilly, Dotel and THE RIOT aren’t enough to lead a miracle charge and:
a. Lambo gets his act together and capitalizes on his talent; or
b. McDonald finds consistency and capitalizes on his talent; or
c. DeWitt continues to be a serviceable major league player after the Dodgers have nothing to show for the deal (i.e. 2012)
d. Smit or Wallach become MLB pitchers.
What most of us are seeing is that all of those favorable scenarios are highly unlikely. HIGHLY unlikely. Which leaves a break-even scenario where all the traded players also flame out as the best case scenario for Coletti. Considering we’re talking 2 guys who have been rated as top 2 prospects in your system and another guy who has already performed at least decently at the MLB level, I think even that outcome is pretty optimistic. Much more likely is that the Dodgers will end up seeing no ultimate return on the deal, while watching one or more of the guys they gave up playing for other teams for several years after Lilly, Dotel and THE RIOT are all history.
BTW, since you’re looking at not tendering Martin next year in order to fix some of the budget problems, who do you think is going to be catching in LA next year? It’s not like the internal solutions are all that great…
Bazinga!
by Junction Rox on Aug 2, 2010 10:00 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Actually I don't. You can't judge a trade a success based on whether players succeed in the future
as no-one has the benefit of advance hindsight. You can only judge it based on their current likelihood of succeeding in the future.
I think you have that reversed
You can only judge a trade as a success or failure after you see what has actually happened to the teams and the players. Until then it is only speculation. What I am doing is speculating on the likelihood of the Dodgers getting a successful result.
Bazinga!
Geez Ray, you're arguments sure have changed 180 degrees in the past 5 months..
at least you’re still a true fan of your team though:
I think Dewitt wins the 2B job, and Tony Jackson agrees. Love the fact that he is over on ESPN now. I missed him after he got let go at the LA Daily News.
He also said that the Dodgers think James McDonald could be the 5th starter all season. He says they "want" him to win the 5th starter job. I have to agree.
by Ray Guilfoyle on Mar 4, 2010 8:11 PM PST
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by Charlie77 on Aug 2, 2010 10:04 PM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
Wow, raygu just got Pizza Hut'd
You know, p’zowned.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
How?
I’d also have wanted McDonald to win the 5th starter job, because that would mean an exciting prospect was fulfilling his potential and helping the team win.
owneddddddddd
Yes, I actually do like cricket. I'm Indian.
"We could have had Jesus on the mound and [the Rockies] still would have gotten hits." -Paul Lo Duca
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Despair or Disrepair?
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Right but you're assuming the Dodgers will be allowed to increase payroll at all next year...
Go Bruce!
nah, not really
If they just don’t do anything else next year, even with all the deferred money, they can keep those guys and build around them, and hope that Gordon, T. Robinson, Withrow, etc. etc. are major league ready by 2012. That’d be my hope, anyway. Of course, when have the Dodgers done anything that I, or any of the other fans, would hope for? (I’m still waiting for them to offer Randy Wolf & Orlando Hudson arbitration to get a few draft picks!)
IMO, the one guy who they ought to trade before next season would be Furcal. Nothing against him- quite the opposite, in fact. He just seems like the one veteran who’s closer to the end of his career than the beginning, yet still valuable enough for a strong return.
Yes, this
Furcal isn’t a foundational piece for their future, and actually has trade value.
I am surprised they didn’t try to move Jamey Carroll, if for no other reason than he’d actually have brought value back.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
The truth is the Dodgers will be required to shed even more payroll next year.
They won’t even be allowed to tread water.
Go Bruce!
Here's a question for Ray Guifoyle
You’re such a huge Dodgers fan. So….
Why do you have a total of eight comments on TBLA, versus 116 comments on the Snakepit, and 162 comments on the Purple Row?
That seems odd…almost as if you’re more concerned with trolling the Row than supporting your own team.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
wow
unrelated to the nl west, but on Friday and Monday, the Cubs have been out scored 35-3 and outhit 47-8.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Aug 2, 2010 10:53 PM MDT via mobile reply actions
Where's Jayson Stark now?
Ok, I’m going to bed. g’nite!
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Nice writeup Andrew..
I LOL’d at this:
Brian Wilson was unavailable for Friday’ game with back spasms and is day-to-day. I’m betting he overexerted himself while bending down to color in his shoes with a Sharpie.
Also I’ve enjoyed following your twitter comments this week!
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