Friday Rockpile: Never Back Down
by Greg Stanwood on Aug 27, 2010 7:00 AM MDT
in Rockpile
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PrintDON'T WORRY.
The title should not imply that I'm about to give a preachy speech to those who declared this season over, because for one thing, it'd be silly to declare newfound hope based on one series sweep, but more importantly, I don't really take a position here in the first place. Things will happen the way they happen, and while I follow the day by day contextual shifts about where the team came from and where they are going, the two exist separately from one another. As I have expressed before: the past is only in indicator of patterns that can be applied to the future, not and actual predictor. So no "we'rebackintyhisgoshdarnit" from me today, just a friendly reminder that we've got a month left of baseball games to enjoy.
One of the most exciting things to enjoy will be our youngsters arriving from the baby leagues to introduce themselves. If we contend for the next two weeks, we're not likely to see much playing time from them with the likely exception of Matt Reynolds, who has firmly planted himself into our mainstream bullpen in just a week's time.
Several beat writers and other Rowbots here on the blog have discussed the September callup thing to death, but being the local transactions fanboy, I feel obligated to devote at least one rockpile in that direction, particularly because even though it's August 27th, those callups in a sense begin today.
*WolfMarauder randomly jumps off a cliff.*
Follooooooow meeeee!
As we learned from Troy Renck yesterday, RHP prospect Samuel Deduno was scratched from his start at AAA last night, and will be called up to the big leagues to replace the injured Manuel Corpas in the long relief role. Deduno was actually called up late last season as well, but didn't get into a game. He's spent most of this season hurt, but has gotten back on his feet in a starting role with the Sky Sox after a short rehab with the Dust Devils at Short A Season. Most of Deduno's work is probably going to come in the next week before the roster expansion, as Jeff Francis and Aaron Cook (who will start the makeup game against Philadelphia if his final rehab start tomorrow goes well) are both expected to return from the disabled list before season's end, those two together with Esmil Rogers and Jhoulys Chacin can fill only two rotation spots, with the other two likely taking over long man duty through season's end.
In that same article, Renck also notes that Greg Smith was removed from the 40 man Roster. Renck clarified via e-mail that his source implied it was an outright move as opposed to a designation for assignment. This opens up a third spot on the 40 Man Roster going into September.
He later confirmed via Twitter that Franklin Morales will also be called up. As of yesterday evening, he was unsure of the corresponding move. If they option Herrera, his option they tried to save for next year will be canceled.
As for who may be called up starting September 1st, those already on the 40 man Roster but not with the major league team are pitchers Edgmer Escalona, Greg Reynolds and Chaz Roe, catcher Michael McKenry and infielders Hector Gomez and Chris Nelson. Matt Daley is also on the roster, but on the 60 Day DL, meaning that he would have to occupy one of the open 40 man spots if activated. Nelson is a guarantee to be called up, while Reynolds, Roe and Gomez are extremely unlikely. Escalona's callup depends on how many bullpen arms the team needs (they're already likely to have more than enough once Cook, Francis and Buchholz are activated), while McKenry depends on whether or not Paul Phillips is purchased from AAA (and he may be called up anyway).
Candidates for callup not on the roster beyond the aforementioned Phillips include AAA outfielders Matt Miller, Cole Garner and Jay Payton, all of whom have had solid 2010 seasons, as well as first baseman Brad Eldred to bring some significant power from the right side. Again, we have three spots to play with there.
MLB.com's Joey Nowak has written a piece on Matt Belisle, our biggest surprise breakout this year (Carlos Gonzalez and Ubaldo Jimenez's accomplishments are bigger, but less surprising I feel). I sure haven't been joking about my super dislike for Belisle lately. I wonder why. Yes, Andrew T. Fisher, we know you saw it coming. Precog.
Meanwhile, Jonathan Mayo (also of MLB.com) sets up Ubaldo's epic struggle for franchise record win #18. Attempt number four comes tonight. There's also a note about Seth Smith at the bottom.
I apologize if any of these links were dropped in yesterday's Rockpile. Rox Girl put a hex on it. Those of you who saw her earlier versions may know for sure.
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I only had the Mayo link yesterday, and of course, given that it's gone there, there's no harm reposting
The rest are fresh.
I think Renck’s been hinting that Miller and Payton are going to get promos in September, and it sort of seems like something he could have heard from an insider. That would take up two of the slots, with the third being a kind of mystery. I’m hoping it’s either Garner or Rex Brothers, both pretty deserving IMHO.
I actually don’t think Payton’s season has been all that impressive, that .667 road OPS is brutal for a corner OF, albeit he did pick it up quite a bit on the Sky Sox’ last trip through Memphis and Nashville. I’d prefer if the Rockies bypassed him to call up both Garner and Brothers, but given the Renck tweets lauding Payton, I don’t see it happening.
Is Chad Billingsley hurt?
He’s still listed as the expected starter for tomorrow night’s game, but the SB Nation Injuries widget has him on the 60-day DL.
WTF
Just an average guy with exceptional hair. Nothing more, nothing less.
Bear Naked - My thoughts on sports, music, and life.
by Bryan Kilpatrick on Aug 27, 2010 7:34 AM MDT reply actions
I'm pretty sure the problem's with the widget.
The Dodgers’ roster found on Yahoo does not show him on the DL, and he’s made his last 10 starts, up through Aug 21st.
not as punny as SDcat00
That's what I thought.
I’ve scoured the internet for news about an injury and haven’t found crap.
Just an average guy with exceptional hair. Nothing more, nothing less.
Bear Naked - My thoughts on sports, music, and life.
by Bryan Kilpatrick on Aug 27, 2010 8:02 AM MDT up reply actions
That happens on those things
I’m constantly editing them
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Aug 27, 2010 9:33 AM MDT up reply actions
Can't wait to get into the ballpark today.....UUUUUUUUUUUUU
We need to get that win for him today!
Yes, I actually do like cricket. I'm Indian.
Rockies are actually zombies. And they're coming to hunt you down just when you think they're buried.
Hollidayrain Music
I really want to see Cole Garner called up
First of all, his road numbers were better than his home numbers which intrigues and secondly from the little I saw of him in spring training he seems to be an energy player and I think that’s always nice to have in a stretch run.
The 2010 Rockies are done!!!!! Do you hear me Rockies? You have NO SHOT at making the postseason. In fact I guarantee you will not make the postseason. (Okay, now that I have removed all expectations go out and make me eat these words)
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #1
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Aug 27, 2010 7:58 AM MDT reply actions
Yes, this.
Garner > Eldred > Miller > Payton > Phillips
Just an average guy with exceptional hair. Nothing more, nothing less.
Bear Naked - My thoughts on sports, music, and life.
by Bryan Kilpatrick on Aug 27, 2010 8:03 AM MDT up reply actions
Free Matt Miller
For goodness, sake, the guy’s been consistently raking for the last 2 seasons, and it’s not like the Rockies are overweighted with right handed hitters off the bench in September. He’s paid his dues and deserves a promotion, however limited his role may be.
Mediocrity sucks
Miller does deserve a shot.
I’m pretty sure he’s a given at this point for one of the three open roster slots and a September call-up. I think only McKenry and Nelson are as certain to get call-ups as he is.
Where's the Chris Nelson love?
Dear Rockies - Please finish ahead of the hated Giants
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act. I'm going to miss you most of all. ( Please don't kill us wherever you play)
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
Nelson is a guarantee to be called up,
The 2010 Rockies are done!!!!! Do you hear me Rockies? You have NO SHOT at making the postseason. In fact I guarantee you will not make the postseason. (Okay, now that I have removed all expectations go out and make me eat these words)
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #1
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Aug 27, 2010 8:30 AM MDT up reply actions
oof...this is why I should never post before actually being awake
Dear Rockies - Please finish ahead of the hated Giants
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act. I'm going to miss you most of all. ( Please don't kill us wherever you play)
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
Speaking of splits
how about Nelson’s .988 home OPS vs. the .775 road OPS? Not that .775 is anything scoff at for 2B, but well that translates is questionable. More worrisome is that a .378 BABIP is driving that home OPS. He’s still an enigma to me, albeit an enigma that deserves a chance.
It's a lot better than Payton's and McKenry's H/R splits
and that his HR distribution is evenly split at 6/6 lessens my concern on that front. Same with the K rate, as long as he isn’t doing the CarGo thing of lowering his contact on the road, I’m not as worried as I would be otherwise.
I definitely think he’s the only other in house option besides EY2 to start at second in 2011, and for that alone, I think he needs to be given a long look.
I just like that we have options at second base next season
That’s a big improvement over what we had this season
The 2010 Rockies are done!!!!! Do you hear me Rockies? You have NO SHOT at making the postseason. In fact I guarantee you will not make the postseason. (Okay, now that I have removed all expectations go out and make me eat these words)
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #1
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Aug 27, 2010 9:09 AM MDT up reply actions
but right now nelson is the only additional option than what we had over last year
and he is pretty much unproven at the big league level.
Yes but EY2 is a better option now than he was a year ago
I think he’s improved his defense and has shown that he will use all of the field when at the plate. I’m not saying he’s without issues, but I feel better about him than I did a year ago at this time.
The 2010 Rockies are done!!!!! Do you hear me Rockies? You have NO SHOT at making the postseason. In fact I guarantee you will not make the postseason. (Okay, now that I have removed all expectations go out and make me eat these words)
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #1
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Aug 27, 2010 9:20 AM MDT up reply actions
i guess i need to see him a little more cause i still feel about the same as i did last year
granted he hasn’t seen a lot of time this year (only 86 PA) but hes still OPSing below .700
Don't you at least think his defense has improved?
The 2010 Rockies are done!!!!! Do you hear me Rockies? You have NO SHOT at making the postseason. In fact I guarantee you will not make the postseason. (Okay, now that I have removed all expectations go out and make me eat these words)
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #1
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Aug 27, 2010 9:30 AM MDT up reply actions
i honestly haven't seen him enough to make a judgement
he still has only played 11 games so far
Look at his footwork and his hands
Both are way more polished than a year ago
The 2010 Rockies are done!!!!! Do you hear me Rockies? You have NO SHOT at making the postseason. In fact I guarantee you will not make the postseason. (Okay, now that I have removed all expectations go out and make me eat these words)
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #1
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Aug 27, 2010 9:37 AM MDT up reply actions
The only major defensive botching we know of was that day he basically gave up at 2B in AAA.
From what we know of EY’s attitude, it was an extreme fluke. That just wasn’t his day. I’ve always been one of the mot skeptical of Young’s defensive skillset, but what he has shown so far at second base since his recall has been encouraging. His biggest flaw is that his excitability can occasionally sabotage his concentration, which can lead to overplaying routine plays. Young has the basic tools to channel a good defensive mindset. I think he has a ways to go, but he’s headed the right direction.
PROJECT LIBRA: Depth / Transactions
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
by Greg Stanwood on Aug 27, 2010 12:44 PM MDT up reply actions
his excitability can occasionally sabotage his concentration, which can lead to overplaying routine plays
I think this is on the money right here. The good news is that this is something that can be improved and I think already has quite a bit.
The 2010 Rockies are done!!!!! Do you hear me Rockies? You have NO SHOT at making the postseason. In fact I guarantee you will not make the postseason. (Okay, now that I have removed all expectations go out and make me eat these words)
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #1
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Aug 27, 2010 12:49 PM MDT up reply actions
And I realize that his OPS is still not good but I just like his approach at the plate a little better
The 2010 Rockies are done!!!!! Do you hear me Rockies? You have NO SHOT at making the postseason. In fact I guarantee you will not make the postseason. (Okay, now that I have removed all expectations go out and make me eat these words)
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #1
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Aug 27, 2010 9:31 AM MDT up reply actions
but the OBP heaviness on that combined with his SB rate
makes up for the low SLG, and makes up for it by a lot. He’s definitely a player that would get underrated by looking at OPS alone.
this...
He brings a lot to the team by getting on base…and he does that very well.
"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
not to mention it seems like dex gets better pitches when he is on first
because the pitchers get really distracted
MY FACEBOOK STATUS:WAITING AROUND THE CORNER FOR FRANKLIN MORALES
Yeah when EY2 is on first it's like he's already in scoring position
The 2010 Rockies are done!!!!! Do you hear me Rockies? You have NO SHOT at making the postseason. In fact I guarantee you will not make the postseason. (Okay, now that I have removed all expectations go out and make me eat these words)
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #1
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Aug 27, 2010 9:46 AM MDT up reply actions
I'd rather see Jay Payton at White Castle
than in the Rockies outfield, and I’ve never been to White Castle and I don’t want to start going now.
But I’m just wondering how much of the Nelson progression is a mirage? Some, none, all? Seems to me he’s not going to be touching a .378 BABIP on the road, at home, or alone in the bathroom in the major leagues.
The answer's both?
Yes the BABIP is high and will come down at the MLB level, but the progression is real, and it’s in the contact rate:
K%
2008: 21.0
2009: 17.2
2010: 14.5
He was at 25% K’s when he first arrived in the minors. His walk rate’s kind of been stagnant around that 8-10% range the last three seasons, but he seems to know and adjust with pitchers.
sorry didn't complete that last thought.
If you look at his June/July/August splits he’s got this interesting thing where the BB rate dipped severely in July, but his wOBA spiked. Pitchers were giving him more to hit, so he took it.
wOBA is my favorite stat.
"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
im always wondering how people pronounce all the saber stats
in this case do you say W-OBA or Weighted OBA or do you say the whole thing, Weighted On base Average
but the real crazy ones UZR, VORP, FIP, BABIP, ISO etc. Do you guys just say the letters or do you try to make them into whole words?
If they're pronounceable by normal linguistic rules, I just say 'em
And that extends a bit – UZR = “user” in my head.
i say OOHZER haha
but yeah I say O.P.S for that one too
what is this?
"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
oh...I gotcha...
yeah…what RG said.
"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
no idea....
to be honest – I just had to go and look up what wOBA was…I just think its silly when I say it out loud…sort of reminds me of Fozzy Bear.
"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
Always reminds me of Downtown Julie Brown
wOBA wOBA!
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
Bazinga!!
by Junction Rox on Aug 27, 2010 10:37 AM MDT up reply actions
Or Dirty Dancing
with the wOBAmelon.
"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
For me
UZR – I say the letters
VORP – I make it into a word
FIP – Say the letters
BABIP – I actually say Batting Average on Balls in Play
ISO – I say both ISO and Isolated Power
The 2010 Rockies are done!!!!! Do you hear me Rockies? You have NO SHOT at making the postseason. In fact I guarantee you will not make the postseason. (Okay, now that I have removed all expectations go out and make me eat these words)
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #1
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Aug 27, 2010 9:33 AM MDT up reply actions
I always say each individual letter for each.
PROJECT LIBRA: Depth / Transactions
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
by Greg Stanwood on Aug 27, 2010 12:45 PM MDT up reply actions
(If I don't use the entire name, as you mentioned)
PROJECT LIBRA: Depth / Transactions
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
by Greg Stanwood on Aug 27, 2010 12:45 PM MDT up reply actions
for whatever reason, AMart will say xFIP as “ex fip” but he will actually spell out B-A-B-I-P. that don’t make a lot of sense to me.
i say if you can make it sound like a word, do it.
The OT: All that AND a bag of meat.
by frightened inmate #2 on Aug 27, 2010 9:33 AM MDT up reply actions
If I had a mic I would record myself saying all these words in an English accent for your amusement.
ooh, at the end, could you say “Bananarama” a few times?
The OT: All that AND a bag of meat.
by frightened inmate #2 on Aug 27, 2010 9:35 AM MDT up reply actions
Saying it is the only thing entertaining about Schenectady, I assure you
Paleface Destro, Infield Butcher: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
Jason Hammel, Unsung Hero warns us all: Beware The Black Heart of Eckstein(tm)!
by Paleface Destro on Aug 27, 2010 5:50 PM MDT up reply actions
I was entertained by the diner "Tops"
which looked like it might double as a stripper club at night.
Knowing Schdy, it probably does
I was glad to have Schenectady so nearby during my college years, though…it made Troy look like Shangri-La
Paleface Destro, Infield Butcher: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
Jason Hammel, Unsung Hero warns us all: Beware The Black Heart of Eckstein(tm)!
by Paleface Destro on Aug 27, 2010 6:17 PM MDT up reply actions
I don't know why I don't say BA-BIP for Batting Average on Balls in play
That could be fun.
Ex: “His BA-BIP was .367 last month”
The 2010 Rockies are done!!!!! Do you hear me Rockies? You have NO SHOT at making the postseason. In fact I guarantee you will not make the postseason. (Okay, now that I have removed all expectations go out and make me eat these words)
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #1
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Aug 27, 2010 9:41 AM MDT up reply actions
I usually do.
But I really don’t physically talk to anybody about these things, so I probably seem a little crazy to strangers.
sure, is it still in there?
The OT: All that AND a bag of meat.
by frightened inmate #2 on Aug 27, 2010 9:48 AM MDT up reply actions
Yep
The 2010 Rockies are done!!!!! Do you hear me Rockies? You have NO SHOT at making the postseason. In fact I guarantee you will not make the postseason. (Okay, now that I have removed all expectations go out and make me eat these words)
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #1
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Aug 27, 2010 9:48 AM MDT up reply actions
ha, awesome, thanks.
i can’t open it at work (durn computer) but I know I’ll be able to at home.
The OT: All that AND a bag of meat.
by frightened inmate #2 on Aug 27, 2010 9:56 AM MDT up reply actions
This is good too
The 2010 Rockies are done!!!!! Do you hear me Rockies? You have NO SHOT at making the postseason. In fact I guarantee you will not make the postseason. (Okay, now that I have removed all expectations go out and make me eat these words)
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #1
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Aug 27, 2010 9:52 AM MDT up reply actions
wOBA's fun, I just pronounce it like that.
I like to say “oozer” for UZR and the rest are pretty much spelled out to pronounce just one way.
That's a good find right there
It’s a small sample size but that’s important to see
The 2010 Rockies are done!!!!! Do you hear me Rockies? You have NO SHOT at making the postseason. In fact I guarantee you will not make the postseason. (Okay, now that I have removed all expectations go out and make me eat these words)
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #1
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Aug 27, 2010 9:26 AM MDT up reply actions
Strasburg going to need Tommy John
will be on the shelf for all of 2011.
I wonder why this is bigger news than Manny Corpas being in the same boat.
Ouch, that sucks for Nats fans
The 2010 Rockies are done!!!!! Do you hear me Rockies? You have NO SHOT at making the postseason. In fact I guarantee you will not make the postseason. (Okay, now that I have removed all expectations go out and make me eat these words)
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #1
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Aug 27, 2010 8:42 AM MDT up reply actions
d'oh
The OT: All that AND a bag of meat.
by frightened inmate #2 on Aug 27, 2010 8:46 AM MDT up reply actions
But in all seriousness, this news should bum out any serious fan of baseball.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
how much, if any, will this effect draft signings?
i know it’s too early to tell with any real certainty, but it should send some ripples.
The OT: All that AND a bag of meat.
by frightened inmate #2 on Aug 27, 2010 9:00 AM MDT up reply actions
My guess is zilch.
There’s always this risk and I think it’s factored in, otherwise Strasburg really would have gotten the $50 million or whatever Boras was floating out there.
I totally agree with KLAW on this one
If you kid is a pitcher and gets drafted, DO NOT send him to college. Colloge coaches burn out more arms be cause they just don’t care about yout pro career.
wow...that really sucks...
and quite shocking….poor Nats can’t catch a break…
"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
they were on Top Chef the other night, that's got to make them feel pretty good.
The OT: All that AND a bag of meat.
by frightened inmate #2 on Aug 27, 2010 9:01 AM MDT up reply actions
Top Chef?
"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
reality show about Chefs. boring season right now but i still watch.
The OT: All that AND a bag of meat.
by frightened inmate #2 on Aug 27, 2010 9:07 AM MDT up reply actions
ah...gotcha...
I like cooking.
"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
yeah, Adam Dunn, Matt Capps....and another guy.
it was a concession stand challenge. but no one made hot dogs.
The OT: All that AND a bag of meat.
by frightened inmate #2 on Aug 27, 2010 9:15 AM MDT up reply actions
Nobody made hot dogs?
what are they stupid?
"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
No, but one person made tuna tartare
Which is no doubt on its way to replacing hot dogs as a traditional ballpark food as we speak….
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
Bazinga!!
by Junction Rox on Aug 27, 2010 10:38 AM MDT up reply actions
sick.
"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
The winning dish was a shrimp and corn fritter creation
they actually looked really yummy.
The girl who did the tuna tartare was eliminated. Probably because she prepped the tuna the night before and it turned a really disgusting shade of gray…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
Bazinga!!
by Junction Rox on Aug 27, 2010 11:15 AM MDT up reply actions
they said it tasted good enough, but yeah, looked bad.
and someone did make italian sausage and made a meatball sub with it. probably not put in casing due to time constraints.
(tiffany is probably my favorite, but man this season doesn’t have a lot of personality.)
god i sound like…….
The OT: All that AND a bag of meat.
by frightened inmate #2 on Aug 27, 2010 11:18 AM MDT up reply actions
ABA
Anybody but Angelo… :-)
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
Bazinga!!
by Junction Rox on Aug 27, 2010 11:22 AM MDT up reply actions
eh, i don't mind him much
i think they’ve tried to portray him as a villain, but it just hasn’t worked for me.
it’s just weird, because last season, Kevin was probably one of the most genuinely likeable reality show cast members ever (SSS for me, but still) and he was talented as all hell. so this year is just kind of lacking.
The OT: All that AND a bag of meat.
by frightened inmate #2 on Aug 27, 2010 11:25 AM MDT up reply actions
Well they did just sign this guy:
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
by Franchise26 on Aug 27, 2010 9:11 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
I feel bad for Strasburg
But maybe…just maybe…just maybe….teams will look at Boras’ contract demands for draft choices just a little bit differently, especially in the case of pitchers.
No, of course they won’t.
not as punny as SDcat00
I don't know why they would, but here's why they should....
….given the contract Strasburg got, he may or may not ever give the Nats near $15m in actual performance value. Certainly, missing an entire season’s going to make it tougher.
not as punny as SDcat00
The Nats' profit per jersey isn't *that* much
And the attendance boost went away really quickly, no…that doesn’t get them to $15m in value.
And the real problem is, given he’s on a ML contract, by the end of next year, he’ll be two years closer to free agency. I’m not saying Strasburg won’t be worth a ton of $$$ to a club eventually, but it likely won’t be with the Nats, who will have paid him a metric butt ton, only to see him a) leave when he starts his prime, and b) miss a big chunk of what time they did have with him, with TJ recovery
not as punny as SDcat00
i thought time spent on the DL doesn't acrue towards ML service time
am i wrong here?
by purplesocks on Aug 27, 2010 10:27 AM MDT up reply actions
I'm fairly certain you're wrong, but I'm not 100% sure of that. Isn't Wolfie our transaction guru?
not as punny as SDcat00
by Mondogarage on Aug 27, 2010 10:28 AM MDT up reply actions
yeah i was hoping to send out the Wolf signal to come answer my questions
i thought that 60 day DL time didn’t impact ML service time but 15 day did. but I’m basing this entirely on OOTP which although its just a video game its pretty realistic as far as rules go
by purplesocks on Aug 27, 2010 10:30 AM MDT up reply actions
See, I think the union would have successfully argued against 60 day DL time not counting
Because of its effect on players’ pensions and such.
not as punny as SDcat00
by Mondogarage on Aug 27, 2010 10:35 AM MDT up reply actions
Jeff beat me.
His answer below is correct.
PROJECT LIBRA: Depth / Transactions
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
by Greg Stanwood on Aug 27, 2010 1:05 PM MDT up reply actions
Also, read all his PR academy articles.
PROJECT LIBRA: Depth / Transactions
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
by Greg Stanwood on Aug 27, 2010 1:05 PM MDT up reply actions
Time on the DL (both 15 and 60 day) does count as ML service time.
See my Purple Row Academy post on the DL.
Here is my ML Service time article for more information.
The writer formerly known as Jabberwocky
READ and LEARN about the business of baseball at Purple Row Academy
Eschew Obfuscation!
by Jeff Aberle on Aug 27, 2010 12:52 PM MDT up reply actions
Considering that he provided $10.5M in value this season alone (2.6 WAR), he’s pretty likely to provide $15M during the period of team control? Even if he misses all of 2011, the Nats still have him under contract for 2012, and under team control until 2014 or 2015 (6 years of service time, I think?).
As it is, getting 66% of your initial investment back on a first round pick is pretty good.
And that $15m is only through 2012.
Given he didn’t pitch in the ML in ‘09, made about 12 starts in ’10, will miss at least half of ’11….no, he’s not going to give $15m in actual value to the ballclub. And he’s going to cost a lot more after ’12.
not as punny as SDcat00
by Mondogarage on Aug 27, 2010 10:02 AM MDT up reply actions
What is your definition of actual value?
I hope this doesn’t sound snarky, but do you have a formula for equating wins and dollars?
No, it doesn't sound snarky, and I don't have a formula of my own
Maybe this is a misunderstanding of mine about WAR, but I don’t see a correlation between WAR and actual monetary value. I always understood it to be a theoretical value of a player over another, such that if, say, a replacement value player were paid $1m, a 4.0 WAR player should be earning four times that amount.
But that that doesn’t necessarily have any relationship at all to a player’s actual expense vs revenue value to a team.
In other words, I don’t understand how WAR actually computes to $ revenue to a club over replacement player. Because that would imply, for instance, that someone like Cliff Lee individually drives thousands of ticket sales, when it’s pretty clearly he probably does not. I think any relationship between WAR and actual $$$ is only in a theoretical or hypothetical sense, and not an actual thing.
not as punny as SDcat00
by Mondogarage on Aug 27, 2010 10:45 AM MDT up reply actions
It's to do with how many $ it takes to buy a win
So as soon as each win has a monetary value – about $4.5m I think, though this may be outdated and not applicable to all clubs in all situations – you can figure out how much a 3 WAR or a 5 WAR player adds in value to the club, and therefore whether they are “worth” their contract.
This was a conversation we had a few weeks ago.
First off, the dollar value is based off of free agent signings, to establish the rough market value of a WAR=0 level replacement. From this, it’s determined what each player would be worth on the FA market, and believe it or not, it’s a pretty accurate predictor when you average the three years prior.
So what it’s saying is that yes, players like Cliff Lee on average (this is important, a smaller market or place like Boston which already sell out most nights might not see the bump) do add that many tickets to a team through the wins they give.
Plus, as a study Jeff posted a week or so ago, star players are significant in adding revenue beyond the W-L percentage bump.
My problem with this is that none of it has any relationship to...
…actual incoming revenue to a club, as I see it.
I don’t think I saw or read the study Jeff posted. Maybe someone can repost it and I can READ and LEARN.
not as punny as SDcat00
by Mondogarage on Aug 27, 2010 10:56 AM MDT up reply actions
It ties into a team’s revenue by keeping dollars from being spent. The attendance bumps, jersey sales, etc. are all on top of the money that the Nats save by not having to sign a top flight starter at a market rate.
Fake scenario: the Nats’ total gross revenue is $150M. The payroll is $75M, with Strasburg. To achieve what they’ve achieved with Strasburg by way of a free agent replacement, the payroll would be $83.5M. Thus, the Nats keep $75M revenue with Strasburg; $66.5M with a free agent who provides a comparable performance.
That difference, while not an additional revenue source that brings their gross revenue above $150M, is real savings that translates into extra money for the team.
Actually, I think he could already be approaching that value
just from the revenue gain in his first two or three home starts.
2-3 home starts in no way led to $15m in actual increased revenue
Maybe $3-4m…..
Consider the ticket cost and # of extra tix sold….
Where he will return that value is if in 2012, he can lead the Nats to a 90 win season and the attendent attendance boost that a full strong season should bring. But given that the Strasburg attendance bump actually petered out 3-4 starts in, I’m not sure that’s really going to happen.
He is, however, going to provide some team a TON of value in 5-6 years. Probably the Yankees.
not as punny as SDcat00
by Mondogarage on Aug 27, 2010 10:06 AM MDT up reply actions
Agreed....
And that is if he is able to really comeback from this injury…Mostly from a mental perspective.
"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
Oh, I do think he'll come back fine, and probably by 2012, even
I just think that, from a financial perspective, this should serve as a cautionary tale…yet of course it won’t.
not as punny as SDcat00
by Mondogarage on Aug 27, 2010 10:17 AM MDT up reply actions
well no of course it won't.
I think teams have to assume some sort of risk with players – even those as talented as he was. part of the game…
"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
I think you underestimate both the initial bump and the tail.
It wasn’t until his last start that he didn’t provide more than a 10,000 ticket boost, and early on you saw a spillover effect where starts on either side would get bought as part of a package deal. I’m just estimating, but I’d say you’ve got to guess at least 15,000/start for 2010, which puts you over $3 million already on ticket sales alone. Concessions add more and this is all before you get into where Strasburg really has made an impact in the Nationals brand value and ability to sell advertising/tix/merchandise in the future. Ryan Zimmerman’s got a good case for MVP and he’s not close to that kind of revenue impact.
That's fine, but a even a 10,000 ticket boost, at an avg of, say, $30/ticket
Is $300k.
At 15k tix per start average, and 7 home starts, that’s 105k extra fans. At $30/ticket, that’s $3.15m.
Now, he’s going to miss at least 35 starts, and will only be in line for about maybe 50 starts, of which about 25 will be at home.
Assuming, arguendo, that he’s still bumping by 10k a start after missing a year (when the shiny new toy smell has worn off), that’s 250,000 fans, or $7.5m.
Okay, so he’s worth $10.5m or so in attendance. I think that’s being overly generous, because I think it’s highly unlikely that anyone can assume a 10k jump in attendance for every one of his home starts beginning in the 2nd half of ‘11, after missing a year for TJ surgery. We’ll see what Nats 2011 season tix sales look like compared to 2010….
not as punny as SDcat00
by Mondogarage on Aug 27, 2010 10:33 AM MDT up reply actions
On one hand, it’ll be like a second major league debut from which the Nats will reap benefits.
On the other hand, if the Nats improve next year or in 2012, accounting for his portion of the revenue boost will be murky.
I see the WAR value as: it would cost the Nats that much to get a similar performance from a free agent or non- pre-arb player. So, in effect, Strasburg’s monetary win value allows has saved the Nats $10.5M so far. Money saved is money earned.
If I remember correctly
Merchandise revenue is shared by the league as a whole. So the Rockies get as much of a cut out of his jersey as the Nats do.
I would certainly hope they would but like you, I doubt it.
Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah, 1983
I cautioned the Nats fans before.
by The Lodo Magic Man on Aug 27, 2010 10:30 AM MDT up reply actions
This is why you don't over-hype minor leaguers and rookies
wait until they’ve been in the bigs a few years before you induct them to the HoF…
Hopefully he can recover and pitch well, but something tells me he’s not going to live up to the stratospheric expectations that were set for him.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." ~Earl Weaver
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #3
by RoarFrom112 on Aug 27, 2010 12:12 PM MDT up reply actions
It is also why I don't think you pay jillions and jillions of dollars to unproven pitchers.
Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah, 1983
They really didn't pay that much for him
No worse than the typical return for a free agent pitcher anyway.
However, most of your free agent pitchers making that money have already done something in the big leagues
This injury could just as well have happened after four starts, or six, or eight.
not as punny as SDcat00
I wonder if Rob Dibble feels bad.
PROJECT LIBRA: Depth / Transactions
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
by Greg Stanwood on Aug 27, 2010 12:46 PM MDT up reply actions
Doubtful.
Dear Rockies - Please finish ahead of the hated Giants
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act. I'm going to miss you most of all. ( Please don't kill us wherever you play)
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
Dibble knows not of these "feelings"
Paleface Destro, Infield Butcher: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
Jason Hammel, Unsung Hero warns us all: Beware The Black Heart of Eckstein(tm)!
by Paleface Destro on Aug 27, 2010 6:25 PM MDT up reply actions
So do I, considering a lot of us saw it coming a mile away.
Just maybe not this soon.
Paleface Destro, Infield Butcher: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
Jason Hammel, Unsung Hero warns us all: Beware The Black Heart of Eckstein(tm)!
by Paleface Destro on Aug 27, 2010 5:51 PM MDT up reply actions
Happy Ubaldo Day!
"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
yeah!
I will be listening on the radio.
"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
yeah!
I’m glad he isn’t in the NL!
"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
Go get you a ring, Bradley.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
Oh good
He can help destroy the Red Sox this weekend
The 2010 Rockies are done!!!!! Do you hear me Rockies? You have NO SHOT at making the postseason. In fact I guarantee you will not make the postseason. (Okay, now that I have removed all expectations go out and make me eat these words)
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #1
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Aug 27, 2010 9:17 AM MDT up reply actions
Now that's some news. ;-)
I’m thrilled for Brad, he’s going to see the playoffs, maybe even get a ring.
Or lose to us in the WS.
not as punny as SDcat00
yayy
went from my favorite team to my 2nd favorite team
time to make another run to the postseason....get it going guys!!
Troy Tulowitzki: "When people think of the Rockies, I want them to think of a winning organization."
by TuLoRocks2008 on Aug 27, 2010 9:21 AM MDT up reply actions
DRaysBay called it, and they wanted it
http://www.draysbay.com/2010/8/25/1649105/why-signing-brad-hawpe-makes-sense
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Aug 27, 2010 9:43 AM MDT up reply actions
woohoo
Twins or the rays were the only acceptable teams for me. :) Although now he has to play in that crapdome…
Tornadough! Tornadough! Tornadough!
"I've swallowed the Little Book of Calm..."
by WalkInRight on Aug 27, 2010 10:15 AM MDT up reply actions
yippee!!!!!
Dear Rockies - Please finish ahead of the hated Giants
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act. I'm going to miss you most of all. ( Please don't kill us wherever you play)
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
Now Hawpe, go win only the AL pennant.
Ubaldomania.
by The Lodo Magic Man on Aug 27, 2010 10:31 AM MDT up reply actions
Looks like it's a minor league deal, with a quick callup expected for postseason eligibility.
Basically the same thing we did with Giambi last year.
http://twitter.com/SPTimesRays/status/22278062543
PROJECT LIBRA: Depth / Transactions
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
by Greg Stanwood on Aug 27, 2010 1:19 PM MDT up reply actions
Great news.
4 days until my first Rockies game!
by CentralCaliRox on Aug 27, 2010 3:03 PM MDT up reply actions
I'm happy for Hawpe....
I was rooting for Texas to get him, but the Rays are just as good.
Ubaldo "Iron Arm" Jimenez
Seth Smith’s beard looks on in anticipation.
His name is Dan Uggla!
by Colsportsfan on Aug 27, 2010 5:50 PM MDT up reply actions
po/mo?
The 2010 Rockies are done!!!!! Do you hear me Rockies? You have NO SHOT at making the postseason. In fact I guarantee you will not make the postseason. (Okay, now that I have removed all expectations go out and make me eat these words)
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #1
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Aug 27, 2010 9:18 AM MDT up reply actions
post modern.
"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
I've just never seen post modern abbreviated before
Perhaps it’s a regional thing?
The 2010 Rockies are done!!!!! Do you hear me Rockies? You have NO SHOT at making the postseason. In fact I guarantee you will not make the postseason. (Okay, now that I have removed all expectations go out and make me eat these words)
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #1
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Aug 27, 2010 9:24 AM MDT up reply actions
Nope.
It’s fairly universal in the art world.
"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
rhymes with homo...
"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
So, there could
be po/mo homoporno
Dear Rockies - Please finish ahead of the hated Giants
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act. I'm going to miss you most of all. ( Please don't kill us wherever you play)
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
That explains it
I was always terrible at art. I wish I knew more about it.
The 2010 Rockies are done!!!!! Do you hear me Rockies? You have NO SHOT at making the postseason. In fact I guarantee you will not make the postseason. (Okay, now that I have removed all expectations go out and make me eat these words)
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #1
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Aug 27, 2010 9:29 AM MDT up reply actions
It's not just art - there was an awful lot of it in my film studies class in the early nineties!
As well as my Italian literature class. It’s one of those concepts (see also: irony) that can be lazily misused by people who think it gives them an excuse to be wacky with justification.
I use art as an umbrella term here
that encompasses photography, literature, film etc. But yeah – a lot of “pomo” stuff is crap but some of it is really good.
"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
I've always been pretty good at understanding it.
“Here we have a giant ashtray, strewn about with beheaded mannequins. The ashtray is meant to symbolize death, and the mannequins also are meant to symbolize death.”
The OT: All that AND a bag of meat.
by frightened inmate #2 on Aug 27, 2010 9:32 AM MDT up reply actions
heh...sounds about right.
"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
wait, if both represent death then what represents the passionless sex of the bourgeoisie?
I don’t think your po/mo piece is complete yet.
by Rox Girl on Aug 27, 2010 9:52 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Haha!
I was reading an article on the latest Restoration Hardware catalog going all sepia and drab for a “New Depression” theme, and thought of this thread for some reason.
To bring it back on topic, sort of
The concept of almost nostalgic waiting for a New Depression, the uncertainty of the times, the extreme intensity in politics, the half-skeptical anticipation of 2012 all seem to have society on edge. But the Depression stuff reminds me of watching the Ken Burns Inning on that era in baseball a while back.
If football expanded amidst the excesses of the 90’s and 00’s, perhaps baseball will return as a pastime of uncertain and potentially austere times.
death is the end of life
life is a result of procreation. by combining the human elements with the ashtray, which is death by idle habit, I think i’ve accurately depicted the ennui of the middle class.
The OT: All that AND a bag of meat.
by frightened inmate #2 on Aug 27, 2010 9:58 AM MDT up reply actions
way to use big words there
very pomo.
"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
i’m just not sure if it’s relavent.
The OT: All that AND a bag of meat.
by frightened inmate #2 on Aug 27, 2010 10:00 AM MDT up reply actions
very relavent.
"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
weird for the sake of weird.
The OT: All that AND a bag of meat.
by frightened inmate #2 on Aug 27, 2010 9:22 AM MDT up reply actions
ha
The OT: All that AND a bag of meat.
by frightened inmate #2 on Aug 27, 2010 9:43 AM MDT up reply actions
good find.
"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
Hence the "mostly"
He kind of leans that way in the first few paragraphs. It’s not quite the performance yours was, though.
How exactly is my rockpile post-modern?
Unless you consider my intertextual writing style to be post-modern, but that’s more of a cinema thing than a written word thing.
PROJECT LIBRA: Depth / Transactions
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
by Greg Stanwood on Aug 27, 2010 12:49 PM MDT up reply actions
Plus, it would also mean every Rockpile I've ever done is post-modern.
PROJECT LIBRA: Depth / Transactions
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
by Greg Stanwood on Aug 27, 2010 1:08 PM MDT up reply actions
This part here:
while I follow the day by day contextual shifts about where the team came from and where they are going, the two exist separately from one another. As I have expressed before: the past is only in indicator of patterns that can be applied to the future, not and actual predictor.
It’s pretty minor in context, but I guess after the RG Rockpile yesterday, my hackles are up with regards to it. I think I just don’t have the patience for that kind of mixed-meaning/no-meaning stuff. I don’t mean anything by it.
That's just a description of my outlook on cause and effect.
Not really meant to be a post-modern statement. The most post-modern thing about my Rockpiles are the titles.
PROJECT LIBRA: Depth / Transactions
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
by Greg Stanwood on Aug 27, 2010 1:32 PM MDT up reply actions
I'm quite used to that.
I studied a fair share of philosophy as it was my minor through college. Having my two major fields of study be cinema history/theory/criticism and philosophy turns one quite obsessed with relativist interpretation, something the majority of the population tends to reject by and large. I’m not going to get offended by a philosophical disagreement, as I encounter them every day. :D
PROJECT LIBRA: Depth / Transactions
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
by Greg Stanwood on Aug 27, 2010 1:43 PM MDT up reply actions
Mondo
If you are in here – jump onto facebook and read the article I just posted…
"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
Lame
And I’d hit GB with a tennis racket for five hours
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Aug 27, 2010 9:38 AM MDT up reply actions
Just shocked that Pujols
would agree to something like that…
"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
Something like what
The 2010 Rockies are done!!!!! Do you hear me Rockies? You have NO SHOT at making the postseason. In fact I guarantee you will not make the postseason. (Okay, now that I have removed all expectations go out and make me eat these words)
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #1
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Aug 27, 2010 9:41 AM MDT up reply actions
That makes me ill
LaRussa, I would expect. But Pujols?
Wow, that makes me sad.
not as punny as SDcat00
Why is this a mystery? Can you all post a link or something
Dear Rockies - Please finish ahead of the hated Giants
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act. I'm going to miss you most of all. ( Please don't kill us wherever you play)
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
Well it's a bit
political…Let’s just say it involves
Glenn Beck.
Sarah Palin
LaRussa
Albert Pujols
"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
Can we sign him now?
I think he’s worth a futures contracts just for the genes alone…
I mean, Pujols’ hand/eye coordination and a grandma with eyes so good she can see Russia from her back porch?? Kids gonna be awesome!!
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
Bazinga!!
by Junction Rox on Aug 27, 2010 10:49 AM MDT up reply actions
Might be hard
Scott Boras beat us to the punch and signed all of Bristol’s eggs
not as punny as SDcat00
by Mondogarage on Aug 27, 2010 10:50 AM MDT up reply actions
That was a bad move
Pujols’ sperm are the real prospects there.
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
Bazinga!!
by Junction Rox on Aug 27, 2010 10:56 AM MDT up reply actions
Well, we know LaRussa’s political bent, he’s never kept that a secret. That’s also never had anything to do with why I hate the guy – I hate him because he thinks he invented politics baseball. And it kind of sounds like he talked Albert into appearing there from the tone of the article.
Also, (REDACTED) (REDACTED) tax cuts are (REDACTED) Obama (REDACTED) mosques (REDACTED)
(POLITICAL FLAME WAR AVERTED)
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
Not to worry
the Rockies lineup mostly swings from the left, so you’ve got that going for you.
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
Bazinga!!
by Junction Rox on Aug 27, 2010 10:48 AM MDT up reply actions
going to the game today...
since i don’t find myself in CO very often these days and I probably won’t find myself here again for quite awhile, my sister (not Silver) and I are going to head over to the stadium and catch a game. If you see me, say hi!
www.twitter.com/owtsproductions
www.adancerinparis.blogspot.com
Making life wonderful again.
Barmes will go on bereavement list
"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
was just going to post this
beat me to it
time to make another run to the postseason....get it going guys!!
Troy Tulowitzki: "When people think of the Rockies, I want them to think of a winning organization."
by TuLoRocks2008 on Aug 27, 2010 9:57 AM MDT up reply actions
So since we all think the Rockies and other teams ‘fake’ convienent injuries for DL stints, anybody want to be the first to suggest that this isn’t legit, either?
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
that would be...
rather disgusting….
"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
That's despicable
The only injury I ever questioned was Latos’ sneezer-rib problem
Dear Rockies - Please finish ahead of the hated Giants
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act. I'm going to miss you most of all. ( Please don't kill us wherever you play)
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
I seem to remember the Cook injury getting some questions, as well.
I didn’t intend for that comment to come off as darkly as it did. My apologiez. I’m not that guy either.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
by Franchise26 on Aug 27, 2010 10:04 AM MDT up reply actions
My apologieS, also. Apparently I am a LOLCat.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
by Franchise26 on Aug 27, 2010 10:11 AM MDT up reply actions
I was one of the Cook injury-questioners
and still am. The big difference there was that the very day before he went on the DL in a post-game interview he was asked if there were any medical problems. He went through a long-winded answer about how that was the frustrating part, he felt fine, there was nothing medical to blame.
The next day he was on the DL, allowing a younger arm to come up and him to get a few rehab games in to fix whatever his mechanical problems were while not taking up a roster spot. Very convenient.
So either a) he lied through his teeth to his fanbase, or b) there was no medical issue and he was placed on the DL anyhow. I’m not sure which it is, but either way I have a problem with it.
I suspect that the vast majority of DL stints are completely legit, which is why the Cook one raised my hackles more than a bit.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." ~Earl Weaver
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #3
by RoarFrom112 on Aug 27, 2010 12:23 PM MDT up reply actions
Or C, he felt fine and then the toe issue was discovered.
Look people, I clearly can’t convince you all that this conspiracy theory about the DL is ridiculous, as I believe it to be. I feel I have more than enough evidence to suggest in each of these cases is more than legitimate, but I’m done trying because everybody seems so convinced that this hole exists, but apparently MLB is so oblivious to it. Sigh.
I’ll try not to get worked up over it, but this argument is generally an example of irresponsible skepticism. Pondering how an in injury could be faked is perfectly reasonable. Accusing an injury of being fake when such little evidence exists in favor of that position feels to me like someone just wants to pretend they’re in the know, above the system, noting that they’re on top of just how real or fake an injury is.
Grr.
PROJECT LIBRA: Depth / Transactions
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
by Greg Stanwood on Aug 27, 2010 12:59 PM MDT up reply actions
It is not really an issue of real or faked
At least to me it is more about using grains of truth to your advantage. If Cook was on his A game he may have been deemed able to play through the toe thing, but since he was struggling they decided it merited a DL and rehab stint. They didn’t manufacture it out of whole cloth, but they may have made a bit of a mountain out of what was more a mole hill.
"I am an optimist - it does not seem to be much use being anything else" - W. Churchill
This I could go along with
I suspect just about every professional athlete is in some degree of “injured” their entire season. They push their bodies so hard there’s no way they could be 100%.
So his toe might have hurt a bit but he didn’t think it was messing with his mechanics. The coaches might have thought it was though, and a doctor could clearly see that there was a medical condition with the toe and thus signed off on the injury. I’m not saying this happened since I don’t have all the information, but it’s entirely plausible.
If this was the case though, there’s probably enough grey area to be able to put just about any player on the DL at any time. Maybe a good rule change would be that you can’t start your rehab assignment until after 15 days has passed from the time of the injury.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." ~Earl Weaver
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #3
If this was the case though, there’s probably enough grey area to be able to put just about any player on the DL at any time.
This is precisely why it is clear the disabled list is more strict than just bribing the team doctor into signing your permission slip. If it were that easy to place someone on the DL, every struggling player a la 2009 Garrett Atkins would have been DL’ed.
I think people forget just how powerful a roster tool the disabled list is. You can allow an unlimited number of players – for free – to inconsequentially sit on the roster without counting towards it. If it were open to immediate, instant and eschewed of analysis, there would be no need for any roster move during the season ever. The team would have complete control to hold any player it wants prisoner in this regard.
MLB as an organization certainly has its occasional silly-nilly antics, but they’d be WELL aware of said DL hole long ago. I’m certain they take every DL request with a certain degree of seriousness.
PROJECT LIBRA: Depth / Transactions
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
by Greg Stanwood on Aug 27, 2010 1:39 PM MDT up reply actions
So you believe that Latos was really injured in July?
The 2010 Rockies are done!!!!! Do you hear me Rockies? You have NO SHOT at making the postseason. In fact I guarantee you will not make the postseason. (Okay, now that I have removed all expectations go out and make me eat these words)
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #1
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Aug 27, 2010 1:42 PM MDT up reply actions
Of course. You must have missed the grand series of arguments I presented against it, oh, 40 times.
I’ll start with the biggest hole first.
1. Why would they even need to disguise a maneuver to limit innings for Latos, when they had already a) publicly stated they were going to limit his innings, and b) there is absolutely no rule against limiting your pitcher’s innings. People who are looking for the ulterior motive of limited innings are looking for something to be disguised when there is absolutely no reason for it to be disguised. It’s like telling your family you intend to go to the grocery store next week, then arguing it makes sense to tell them instead that you’re going somewhere else instead when you actually go. There’s no reason to hide the fact you’re going to the store. You even already said that you intended to go. Why come up with some excuse to limit his innings “secretly” when it was never a secret?
2. Why not just option Latos? This move would have been cheaper for the team as well as prevented Latos from acquiring service time during the period he was down. Further, Latos would not have burned an extra option in the first place because he was not down long enough to force the option to count anyway. Arguing that limiting his innings via DL is saying that they spent more money and more of Latos’ service time towards doing something they could have done for much cheaper, prevented Latos from progressing towards Super 2 status, as well as already established they didn’t have to hide in the first place!
3. Why would you come up with a story so unusual to create a distraction for this nonsensical ulterior motive? People have tried to argue that “well, maybe they assumed that such an unusual story would not be called to question because hey, who could make up such a thing?” Well, the fact that it attracted so much attention AND the fact that you and others seem to find it so obvious that it was a faked injury, then they made pretty stupid decision in coming up with such a unique injury source, didn’t they?
4. If it’s so obvious to YOU and others that the injury is fake, why is it not obvious to anyone who is making these transactions go through. Are you claiming that you are more enlightened than the transactions office, so gullible in their ways that they would not investigate anything suspicious of this sort? It seems to imply a significant degree of dual expectations: “MLB is clueless about this, yet I find it so obvious.”
In order for me to believe that Latos’ injury was fabricated, I must hear reasonable and valid explanations for each of the following questions.
1. Why did the move need to be disguised when the intent was already made public?
2. Why would the team use the most expensive way to limit innings?
3. Why would the team attract suspicion to their own move?
4. Why is it so obvious to you or others that the injury is fabricated, but to the office, it appeared to be easily acceptable?
PROJECT LIBRA: Depth / Transactions
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
by Greg Stanwood on Aug 27, 2010 2:03 PM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
/Stands and Claps.
"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
1) They need to disguise the move because you can’t put someone on the DL just because you want to limit their innings. You need another reason, the reason the Padres came up with was that he hurt himself sneezing.
2) I think this is about the message you are sending to your fans. Had they sent Latos down it would have told Padre fans that they are still more concerned about limiting Latos’s innings and the future than they are about winning this year. The potential money lost there was greater than the extra money they would have to use to keep him on the DL for 15 days. What do you think the casual fan would have thought if a team leading the division by two games in July sent their best pircher to the minors? I’m guessing that would not have gone over too well.
3) If you’re going to put Latos on the DL, you have to come up with something and quite frankly it’s not easy to completely fabricate a story from nothing. I don’t think the team was trying to attract suspicion, it’s just kind of hard not to when you are completely making something up. I don’t believe this injury for a second when Latos himself says “It’s sore; I’m not going to lie, but don’t know exactly what the injury is”.
4) I don’t think that I’m the only one to notice it, I just don’t think MLB enforces it. There’s a rule that a pitcher must deliver the ball to home within 12 seconds when there’s nobody on base or else it’s ball one; how come that’s not enforced? I think that’s what’s going on here. I’ve gone 70 right in front of cops before when the speed limit is 65, that doesn’t mean I got pulled over.
The issue here to me in not a MLB is too stupid to notice issue, it’s a “they don’t enforce the rule” issue.
The 2010 Rockies are done!!!!! Do you hear me Rockies? You have NO SHOT at making the postseason. In fact I guarantee you will not make the postseason. (Okay, now that I have removed all expectations go out and make me eat these words)
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #1
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Aug 27, 2010 3:01 PM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
Yes, but
like many things that are (at least somewhat) open to abuse, one must be careful to not overly abuse it or reforms will be made. I suspect that teams are aware that if they blatantly abuse the system it will bring extra scrutiny on their DL requests so they walk a line and only use it to their advantage sometimes in defensible situations. This is classic risk reward stuff. There is a risk, and there is a reward. You have to make decisions carefully.
"I am an optimist - it does not seem to be much use being anything else" - W. Churchill
one must be careful to not overly abuse it or reforms will be made.
No, reforms would be made if the office were aware of ANY abuse. You’re basically arguing that to all of us fans, MLB teams and players, the abuse is obviously active and in practice, but the transactions office and commissioner’s office, everyone with any power to reform the system, is totally clueless and will remain so unless it becomes even MORE obvious.
PROJECT LIBRA: Depth / Transactions
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
by Greg Stanwood on Aug 27, 2010 2:05 PM MDT up reply actions
Not to mention the unions.
You don’t think the players union would object to holding players prisoner on the disabled list?
PROJECT LIBRA: Depth / Transactions
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
by Greg Stanwood on Aug 27, 2010 2:08 PM MDT up reply actions
You are misreading my argument
the way it is (mis)used now is essentially an acceptable level of abuse. It provides a little flexibility to the system. It works and all parties involved likely appreciate the flexibility it provides, but all parties also acknowledge that they must use this little wiggle room wisely and prudently.
We aren’t seeing something that the commish or the players union are ignorant of, that is a red herring. The DL is a qualitative category and there is just going to be some inherent ability for teams to take some advantage in the gray margins.
"I am an optimist - it does not seem to be much use being anything else" - W. Churchill
I'm not misreading your argument at all.
the way it is (mis)used now is essentially an acceptable level of abuse.
There wouldn’t BE an acceptable level of abuse. You’re neglecting what the implications of the abuse of a roster move as such would be just because you’re convinced that it’s being abused. You’re seeking to justify something you believe through qualitative assessment rather than actual evidence.
“Yes, the DL is abused, but only a little. That’s what you can’t see it.”
Not buying it.
PROJECT LIBRA: Depth / Transactions
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
by Greg Stanwood on Aug 27, 2010 2:26 PM MDT up reply actions
you are now just picking at semantics
If you agreed with my first statement (which you said you had no problem with) then the only reason you disagree now is the relative meaning of “abuse” and “misuse”.
I don’t want to be the stone for you to grind your axe on, especially when I think for the most part we really agree.
"I am an optimist - it does not seem to be much use being anything else" - W. Churchill
I'm hardly singling you out.
I’ve made the same argument to a dozen people this year.
The statement you said to which I had no problem with is entirely different than the one I do.
If Cook was on his A game he may have been deemed able to play through the toe thing, but since he was struggling they decided it merited a DL and rehab stint. They didn’t manufacture it out of whole cloth, but they may have made a bit of a mountain out of what was more a mole hill.
Fine, an injury can be embellished. But there has to be something there.
one must be careful to not overly abuse it or reforms will be made. I suspect that teams are aware that if they blatantly abuse the system it will bring extra scrutiny on their DL requests so they walk a line and only use it to their advantage sometimes in defensible situations.
Still entirely disagree, and find the statement baseless. Again, I do not believe you’re offering evidence. You’re appealing to an arbitrary quantification as precedent for abuse, instead of the actual instances of abuse.
If you don’t want to continue, as you implied, that’s fine of course. I’m not MAD at you, I just think you (and others) are way off base with these assumptions. It’s not going to be enough to convince me that MLB constructed a system that is supposed to protect players and their teams in case of injury, but instead are perfectly okay with a little abuse. Oh, but not too much mind you… then there’d be reform!
it’s not enough. Sorry :\
PROJECT LIBRA: Depth / Transactions
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
by Greg Stanwood on Aug 27, 2010 2:47 PM MDT up reply actions
Yes, I have no problem with that.
But it’s a far cry from what a lot of people are saying.
“We used the DL to our advantage be exaggerating an injury” is completely different from “We used the DL to our advantage by inventing an injury”.
PROJECT LIBRA: Depth / Transactions
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
by Greg Stanwood on Aug 27, 2010 1:33 PM MDT up reply actions
Nobody claims that they make up injuries
But any doctor can take a MRI of any veteran player and probably find some damage that is legitimate. now, the question is, is hat injury something that would normally call for a DL stint, or is this something that they team will use.
PLENTY of people accused the Mat Latos injury of being entirely fabricated.
PROJECT LIBRA: Depth / Transactions
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
by Greg Stanwood on Aug 27, 2010 2:06 PM MDT up reply actions
I still have yet to see any argument other than:
Hmm… Player Z went on the DL when they were struggling? Convenient, don’t you think? It’s n90ot as if struggling players can actually be hurt or anything.
Or any other sort of appeal to rebellion fallacies.
To put it simply, I remain far more convinced by my argument than any other, but clearly that’s not good enough for anyone else. Fair enough… but I still find the view particularly silly, “the official story is a coverup” assumption.
PROJECT LIBRA: Depth / Transactions
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
by Greg Stanwood on Aug 27, 2010 2:37 PM MDT up reply actions
It all depends
on if you find coincidence between a team like the Mets, who were trying desperately to Get Perez off the team, putting him on the DL when all else failed.
My perspective is, they reviewed all him medical records, did an MRI and found some damage, and used that to justify the DL, regardless to the impact it actually had on his ability to pitch. The reason that this move is rare is simply because it is a last resort.
Oh, please.
As the most recent questioner of Cook’s injury justifying his placement on the DL (yesterday’s Rockpile) and recipient of a subsequent bat’leth smackdown by (fellow Trekkie) Wolf (oooh, sort of like Worf), I find such a suggestion appalling in this case. Let’s just assess each case on its individual merits, shall we?
/taking credit for likely first use of “bat’leth” on PR.
by trekinaz on Aug 27, 2010 10:26 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Mythbusters says the cannon was a fraud
As much as I hate to say it.
But Kirk does have a history of cheating… or WILL have… ugh, Temporal Mechanics was never my best subject… or is that WILL never be my bet subject.
/signing off to get back to work
by trekinaz on Aug 27, 2010 10:36 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
I saw that Mythbusters
Doesn’t mean it won’t work in Purple Row World.
Heck, they couldn’t really test it at the different atmospheric compositions that Kirk might have encountered, either…
I hope everything is ok for Clint's family.
I did have to laugh a bit at the link, though. My first thought was “boy, and I thought Cat was taking Hawpe’s departure hard”
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
Bazinga!!
by Junction Rox on Aug 27, 2010 11:00 AM MDT up reply actions
heh
Dear Rockies - Please finish ahead of the hated Giants
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act. I'm going to miss you most of all. ( Please don't kill us wherever you play)
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
from Renck
He said he couldn’t go into details on the specifics necessitating his leave but:
“I would caution those making light of Barmes’ family situation. It’s an awful situation. So please show class with your comments.”
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Aug 27, 2010 12:00 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
:( Poor guy.
"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
I hope things turn out ok for Clint's family. :(
"Are they called the Rockies because they rock?" - 7 y.o.
A relevant question re Strasburg's TJ surgery
Anyone think ESPN will have cameras in the operating theater? Will Joe Morgan and Jon Miller do play by play?
Will they interview LeBron about the Strasburg surgery for an hour, and will LeBron wait until the end of the special to tell the audience where he’ll view the surgery from?
not as punny as SDcat00
Why is it whenever I see Lebrons name
I start craving Vitamin Water?
"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
Because
seeing his name induces bouts of wretching and vomiting, causing dehydration?
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
Bazinga!!
by Junction Rox on Aug 27, 2010 11:01 AM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
THIS
almost broke the left mouse button recing this one
I can't believe you're actually bringing this up but arguing he's not paying off on the $15 million
How much does a 30 second ad spot on ESPN cost? How much additional coverage has Stras received that the Nats would otherwise not have?
I view it more as
marketing of the brand “Strasburg” and less of marketing for the Nats.
"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
they're interconnected and will be for the next five plus years.
Any marketing for one is also marketing for the other.
I'm gonna say you are 100% wrong with this.
"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
100% wrong? That's a pretty strong statement.
I think the numbers back me up on this, though. Anytime that Nationals logo is seen on national television, it’s a brand win for Washington.
How many casual fans
can tell you what team Stras plays for?
"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
This isn't a rhetorical question, is it?
Because honestly the answer to that is probably a much higher percentage than it is for a pitcher like Ubaldo or even Cliff Lee.
Curiosity killed the hotdog?
I was curious so I asked ten co-workers (I don’t work with many people) this question. Of anyone who actually knew who is was (only 6 did) 100% knew he played for Washington.
How many of them have attended a Nats game or bought a Strasburg jersey?
not as punny as SDcat00
by Mondogarage on Aug 27, 2010 11:32 AM MDT up reply actions
No, it relates to a different question
RG and I are tete-a-teting a bit about how much financial positive impact Strasburg’s actually had on the Nats.
not as punny as SDcat00
by Mondogarage on Aug 27, 2010 11:36 AM MDT up reply actions
Yes. Yes he does.
not as punny as SDcat00
by Mondogarage on Aug 27, 2010 11:40 AM MDT up reply actions
also scientific
asking how many Colorado (I’m assuming) co-workers of a Purple Row user bought a Strasburg jersey.
But didn't you say that all the national coverage has helped the Nats' revenue nationally?
In that case, shouldn’t that translate to Strasburg mania being a nationwide phenomenon, resulting in revenue flowing to the Nats from all 50 states?
not as punny as SDcat00
by Mondogarage on Aug 27, 2010 11:39 AM MDT up reply actions
The point I'm trying to make here is...
…brand awareness doesn’t necessarily correlate at all with revenue.
Strasburg’s probably had a far bigger impact on ESPN’s revenue than on his own ballclub’s. The club, which by the way now has to go ahead and spend all those WAR bucks to replace his wins, and still pay him, and still see him march closer towards leaving.
If he actually misses 18 months (which strikes me as very unlikely, but said to be possible), they’ll end up paying him $15m to pitch one season + 12 starts.
not as punny as SDcat00
by Mondogarage on Aug 27, 2010 11:43 AM MDT up reply actions
I never said that, even though I have little doubt it's the case.
And if you give me some time, I could prove it.
But, what I was actually implying below was that all the national coverage helps the local revenue, just as it does with the Rockies and Ubaldo.
As far as jersey sales go I know he's not in the top 15 for this season
Here’s the list
1) Derek Jeter
2) David Ortiz
3) Chase utley
4) Manny Ramirez
5) Derek Lee
6) Alex Rodriguez
7) Alfonso Soriano
8) Matt Holliday
9) Josh Beckett
10) Tulo
11) Magglio Ordonez
12) Ryan Howard
13) Ryan Braun
14) David Wright
15 Dustin Pedroia
The 2010 Rockies are done!!!!! Do you hear me Rockies? You have NO SHOT at making the postseason. In fact I guarantee you will not make the postseason. (Okay, now that I have removed all expectations go out and make me eat these words)
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #1
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Aug 27, 2010 11:40 AM MDT up reply actions
This is shocking
considering how much the media pushes this guy.
"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
I'm sorry
This was as of late May so I’m sure Strasburg has moved in there by now. Don’t use this is regards to Strasburg
The 2010 Rockies are done!!!!! Do you hear me Rockies? You have NO SHOT at making the postseason. In fact I guarantee you will not make the postseason. (Okay, now that I have removed all expectations go out and make me eat these words)
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #1
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Aug 27, 2010 11:44 AM MDT up reply actions
Jus tfound that he had sold 78,000 jerseys through July
That makes the Strasburg jersey the numbre one selling jersey in Nats history. (Not that the bar was set very high)
The 2010 Rockies are done!!!!! Do you hear me Rockies? You have NO SHOT at making the postseason. In fact I guarantee you will not make the postseason. (Okay, now that I have removed all expectations go out and make me eat these words)
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #1
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Aug 27, 2010 11:47 AM MDT up reply actions
Exactly, brand awareness =/= revenue
Strasburg is much much better known nationally than Lee, Holliday, Tulo, Ordonez, and Braun.
not as punny as SDcat00
by Mondogarage on Aug 27, 2010 11:44 AM MDT up reply actions
or Ichiro
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
Bazinga!!
by Junction Rox on Aug 27, 2010 11:45 AM MDT up reply actions
So was I
I guesss all the Cards fans bought Holliday jerseys this year
The 2010 Rockies are done!!!!! Do you hear me Rockies? You have NO SHOT at making the postseason. In fact I guarantee you will not make the postseason. (Okay, now that I have removed all expectations go out and make me eat these words)
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #1
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Aug 27, 2010 11:46 AM MDT up reply actions
Would def be interested in seeing a more recent list
not as punny as SDcat00
by Mondogarage on Aug 27, 2010 11:46 AM MDT up reply actions
So would I
I’m having trouble finding one
The 2010 Rockies are done!!!!! Do you hear me Rockies? You have NO SHOT at making the postseason. In fact I guarantee you will not make the postseason. (Okay, now that I have removed all expectations go out and make me eat these words)
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #1
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Aug 27, 2010 11:48 AM MDT up reply actions
Everyone who ever weanted a Pujols jersey has already acquired one.
PROJECT LIBRA: Depth / Transactions
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
by Greg Stanwood on Aug 27, 2010 1:01 PM MDT up reply actions
I'd be curious what that regional breakdowns might be
Dear Rockies - Please finish ahead of the hated Giants
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act. I'm going to miss you most of all. ( Please don't kill us wherever you play)
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
So was I
I can’t find anything yet though
The 2010 Rockies are done!!!!! Do you hear me Rockies? You have NO SHOT at making the postseason. In fact I guarantee you will not make the postseason. (Okay, now that I have removed all expectations go out and make me eat these words)
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #1
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Aug 27, 2010 11:46 AM MDT up reply actions
This list gives me a sad...
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
Bazinga!!
by Junction Rox on Aug 27, 2010 11:44 AM MDT up reply actions
But Tulo's on it :-)
The 2010 Rockies are done!!!!! Do you hear me Rockies? You have NO SHOT at making the postseason. In fact I guarantee you will not make the postseason. (Okay, now that I have removed all expectations go out and make me eat these words)
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #1
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Aug 27, 2010 11:48 AM MDT up reply actions
Yeah, I noticed that later
it does help offset the dooshiness factor of most of the rest of the list.
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
Bazinga!!
by Junction Rox on Aug 27, 2010 11:54 AM MDT up reply actions
I should have written his whole name out to make it more noticable
It’s just habbit for to shorten it I guess
The 2010 Rockies are done!!!!! Do you hear me Rockies? You have NO SHOT at making the postseason. In fact I guarantee you will not make the postseason. (Okay, now that I have removed all expectations go out and make me eat these words)
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #1
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Aug 27, 2010 11:55 AM MDT up reply actions
for me
The 2010 Rockies are done!!!!! Do you hear me Rockies? You have NO SHOT at making the postseason. In fact I guarantee you will not make the postseason. (Okay, now that I have removed all expectations go out and make me eat these words)
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #1
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Aug 27, 2010 11:56 AM MDT up reply actions
: )
I still believe...
This is R year!
by prettyinpurple on Aug 27, 2010 12:10 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Just as a random side note
I can’t believe people still buy Manny jerseys.
Ugh
The 2010 Rockies are done!!!!! Do you hear me Rockies? You have NO SHOT at making the postseason. In fact I guarantee you will not make the postseason. (Okay, now that I have removed all expectations go out and make me eat these words)
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #1
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Aug 27, 2010 11:51 AM MDT up reply actions
given the photo for the Rockpile
I can believe it. Los Angeles has more than its fair share of nutjobs.
People in LA are stupid, breathing in all that smog and Couvoisier
not as punny as SDcat00
by Mondogarage on Aug 27, 2010 11:56 AM MDT up reply actions
How much revenue did the Nats get from ESPN selling a 30 second spot?
Answer = 0
If anything, Strasburg was worth more $$$ to ESPN
And national hyping of Stras only has a limited effect on Nats’ finances.
not as punny as SDcat00
by Mondogarage on Aug 27, 2010 10:47 AM MDT up reply actions
You're kidding right?
You don’t think all those images of Strasburg striking out a gazillion opposing hitters sell tickets to 13 year olds in Washington D.C.? This is a surprisingly naive view of the way marketing works coming from you.
No, I don't think it sells nearly as much tix to 13 YOs in Washington DC as it does commercial time for ESPN
The Nats average 23,816 in attendance this year.
Last year, the Nats averaged 22,715.
So their overall attendance is up less than 5% this year. Given Strasburg started roughly 10% of the Nats’ home games thus far, shouldn’t Nats attendance have gone up more than 5%?
However, given that ESPN today is all Strasburg all the time, I have no doubt their getting a ton more web hits and making more incremental profit off Strasburg per story than the Nats are.
not as punny as SDcat00
by Mondogarage on Aug 27, 2010 11:00 AM MDT up reply actions
a google search for his name
The Nationals website isn’t even on the front page.
"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
That's because the franchise name is the Washington Strasburgs
not as punny as SDcat00
by Mondogarage on Aug 27, 2010 11:07 AM MDT up reply actions
Actually it is.
Considering more and more people consume media via the internet – it is very relevant that a search for the Nationals biggest player doesn’t result in better web traffic to their own website on a search for his name. Hell even SBNation shows up before the Nationals own website does.
You would think the Nationals would find a way to leverage his name better to sell more merchandise/tickets through the internet…
"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
no, actually it's not. You need to look up the definition of scientific.
There’s no control study, there’s no actual evidence that the Nationals have not, in fact, leveraged his name to sell over the Internet.
OK fine
I didn’t do a control study, nor do I have access to the Nationals website analytical data – I can tell you from my perspective that they are failing miserably at using Strasburg to sell their product via the internet.
My background is in web management – specifically SEO/PPC Ad management.
No Google PPC Ads are triggered when someone searches for his name – Why not market your biggest player for tickets to games or to purchase merchandise?
Total lack of presence on Google on a search for his name (comes up on the top of page 2) after ESPN, SBNation, Yahoo Sports, and even San Diego State comes up before they do.
IMO they are failing when it comes to some basic metrics. If I had more advanced information – I would look into it – but I’m sure they aren’t gonna hand it over to me.
"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
btw, it actually does come up on the first page for me.
I’ll admit that there’s more the team could be doing to monetize his name, but I don’t know what all is allowed on that front with the MLBPA and the current CBA.
The original question, however, was whether Strasburg’s branding was also helping the Nationals, and even looking at the Google page, I don’t see how you can argue it’s not, since I’m counting six instances where “Washington Nationals” is also seen on that page, and a few others of just Washington or Nationals.
Looking at the Twitter stream, I’m seeing “Nationals” coming up a lot in discussing his injury. You were saying I was 100% wrong that they were interconnected branding wise, and I still haven’t seen evidence that this is the case.
I would say the Nationals are more
connected to Strasburg – than Strasburg is connected to the Nationals.
Most of the stories I have seen on twitter have tagged Stras – and not the nationals. While virtually all of the Nationals tags are also tagged with Stras.
"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
Given his celebrity, your first statement's absolutely true.
Anybody would be foolish to argue that it wasn’t. Ichiro and the Mariners would be another case like that. It’s still not a zero percent level of interconnection, however. Strasburg branding does pull up Nationals branding.
But does his national media attention
better for him financially or the Nationals…and I would say it does more for him than his team.
"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
More than is still not equal to zero
which is the level you and Mondo were acknowledging earlier.
With this statement it’s a tough call in light of recent events. Without the TJ, I’d argue that you were incorrect, as star level players can be worth tens of millions (Helton would have never gotten his contract in the first place, Manny, A-Rod, Teixeira, none of them if it wasn’t true at times) and part of that value comes from added national exposure they bring (again, national exposure impacts local revenue).
Now, however, the national exposure’s value starts tilting a lot more in Strasburg’s direction. I think you might be right at this point.
No, I'm not acknowledging "zero"
I’m saying that it’s not going to equal the $15m the Nats spent on him.
And that for that contract to have been a good value (in relation to revenue added to the team), he would have had to a) perform to the outsized expectations (which he was doing), and b) stay healthy for the life of the contract.
Given that he will actually pitching games for the Nats for at most 50% of the length of the contract, that seems very unlikely.
not as punny as SDcat00
by Mondogarage on Aug 27, 2010 12:09 PM MDT up reply actions
no, if he was performing to the outsized expectations
He would have been worth $18-$22 million per season according to Forbes, not including the $45-$60 million in added franchise value.
Now, it’s a bit in jeopardy but using their math but lowering the average added attendance to 15,000 he’s probably already halfway to being worth that $15 million. I really don’t think it’s a stretch to think him capable of pulling the rest in if he’s healthy in 2012.
But the added attendance was already down to 10k per game
…by the end before he was shut down.
I believe Forbes’ numbers were exaggerated. That 15k average was not sustained.
I’m not suggesting that by 2012, the Nats can’t have an awesome team, a healthy performing Strasburg, and averaging the 40k fans it will take for them to meet those projections.
I’m suggesting that that’s now highly unlikely. Because the attendance boost was not at the level that Forbes was expecting it to be, for one. And then, we’re just getting to the start of his arb years…
The Forbes article contained a lot of assumptions that weren’t really showing signs of coming to pass, as the season went along.
At the end of the day and under the best of circumstances (e.g. no injury, fans remain enthralled with Strasburg’s every start), the ‘Strasburg Effect’ on total team revenues when you consider these additional revenue impacts may be worth between $18-22 million annually for the Washington Nationals franchise.
Attendance at his last starts was down a lot from his first few, and now….best case scenario, he doesn’t even pitch in Nationals park until post-ASB of next year.
not as punny as SDcat00
by Mondogarage on Aug 27, 2010 12:38 PM MDT up reply actions
you too, are making a lot of assumptions
that might not really come to pass. For instance, assuming the attrition of the Strasburg effect will remain constant until it only reaches “a few hundred” extra fans.
So what I was saying is that we know that those starts averaged:
33,446
We know what the non-Strasburg starts averaged:
22,590
Your second false assumption is that the second number would still be as high if it wasn’t for Strasburg. On this point I know I’m not going to convince you given your prior arguments, as I’m not the most qualified, but the branding presence of a star like Strasburg on the roster increases overall sales for the Nationals, even on days he’s not pitching (extra season tickets and multi-pack promotions have a big chunk of this, but there’s also just a general branding boost) and that’s why I’m okay giving a 15,000/start figure.
If you want to lower it, fine , but you’re still talking $5 million plus in stadium revenue for 2010.
Now let’s talk advertising revenue:
Nationals TV ratings are up 139% as of the end of July, how much do you think they (MASN is joint owned by the Nats and Orioles) can bump their ad rates for next year? They’ll lower again for 2012, as the viewership will drop, but this is almost all Strasburg effect and it’s revenue he’s making the club while he’s rehabbing.
I would say that there’s almost no way he comes in at less than $15 million in value unless he doesn’t recover at all.
Also take in the huge cost
of not signing him. How much would that have affected the club. Well, it probably would have put the club out of business.
Okay, but before jumping too hard on the "up 139%" platform...
….the Nats’ local TV ratings were the lowest in all of MLB prior to that. a 139% increase isn’t really that huge, because it was from such a small base. Their raw rating is still 28th in MLB.
Really, it’s all going to depend on how he comes back. If he comes back in 2012 at 2010 level, then okay, and attendance reflects that, then he probably makes his $$$ back.
not as punny as SDcat00
So now you do admit it sells some tickets.
Before you were saying revenue = 0
This is a complex issue, because there are two distinct attendance trends this year compared to last year for the Nationals and in your math up there, you’re only accounting for one of them.
The other one would be coming off of a last place season and second year in a shiny new ballpark. In other words, the Nationals were in line for a significant drop in attendance before Strasburg, but he completely turned that around.
I'm saying his effect on ticket sales is declining
His effect on sales was less each successive start. Absent TJ, by the end of this year, I feel him starting would have added no more than a few hundred tix in sales to each game, because the shine has worn off the new toy, and the team’s still a 70 win team. Such that any increase in revenue would be marginal, at best.
not as punny as SDcat00
by Mondogarage on Aug 27, 2010 11:09 AM MDT up reply actions
This is definitely a happier place that DS right now
good god….I need cheering up. How’s everyone doing?
"If there's a new way....I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time...." Peace Sells....but Who's Buying
Proving that you can be gay and not like Madonna, and rock out to Metal. .
Quitter's People United Member # 78
jpage78, I am so bummed this week..:(
Dear Rockies - Please finish ahead of the hated Giants
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act. I'm going to miss you most of all. ( Please don't kill us wherever you play)
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
yeah.....that article by Wojranowski was pretty accurate
unlike the Bucher article. We need RIRF with a sad face.
"If there's a new way....I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time...." Peace Sells....but Who's Buying
Proving that you can be gay and not like Madonna, and rock out to Metal. .
Quitter's People United Member # 78
Here ya go
The 2010 Rockies are done!!!!! Do you hear me Rockies? You have NO SHOT at making the postseason. In fact I guarantee you will not make the postseason. (Okay, now that I have removed all expectations go out and make me eat these words)
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #1
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Aug 27, 2010 11:28 AM MDT up reply actions
I’m not sad Melo’s leaving. Well, I am. But I get wanting out when you’re looking at the alternative being wasting your prime in a dysfunctional organization with no real shot at a championship. That roster sucks.
I say thanks for seven great years and I hope he wins a title elsewhere.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
by Franchise26 on Aug 27, 2010 12:09 PM MDT up reply actions
Regarding Hawpe,
How ironic that he will now be playing alongside the man we largely blame for stealing his mojo and ruining his career here. One Mr. Carl Crawford….
Dear Rockies - Please finish ahead of the hated Giants
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act. I'm going to miss you most of all. ( Please don't kill us wherever you play)
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
and to add
perhaps Mr. Crawford will be so kind as to return his mojo since they are now teammates. :)
Dear Rockies - Please finish ahead of the hated Giants
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act. I'm going to miss you most of all. ( Please don't kill us wherever you play)
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
*yawn*
I had a dream Ubaldo was pitching. But I was Ubaldo, and I was doing terrible : (
My control was aweful, and I kept overthrowing and under throwing (mostly under) pitches.
He allowed like, a lot runs in the first inning.
But in the second, the Rockies came back and got to within one run, and I could hear the crowd cheering (it was quite large), and they were so excited cause they knew we would win.
And Brad Hawpe was playing some new weird position between 3rd base and lf, it was called something that sounds like lagoon, but I remember it ended with -er.
Then I woke up.
I still believe...
This is R year!
by prettyinpurple on Aug 27, 2010 11:21 AM MDT via mobile reply actions
platooner maybe?
Dear Rockies - Please finish ahead of the hated Giants
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act. I'm going to miss you most of all. ( Please don't kill us wherever you play)
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
The Rays do have a position called lagooner
It out by the tankful of rays behind the RF fence
Mediocrity sucks
A-Gone already DID go to the Marlins
Ten years ago in the first round
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Aug 27, 2010 12:56 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Lets hope Ubaldo
fares better than in my dream..
I still believe...
This is R year!
by prettyinpurple on Aug 27, 2010 12:50 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
“Belisle, up to this point, has had some special season,” Tracy said.
The OT: All that AND a bag of meat.
by frightened inmate #2 on Aug 27, 2010 12:14 PM MDT reply actions
He seemed to turn a corner late last year and he's been awesome ever since
The 2010 Rockies are done!!!!! Do you hear me Rockies? You have NO SHOT at making the postseason. In fact I guarantee you will not make the postseason. (Okay, now that I have removed all expectations go out and make me eat these words)
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #1
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Aug 27, 2010 12:22 PM MDT up reply actions
Yeah, and he turned that corner in the Springs
after sputtering at several prior stops as a starter.
If only Morales can do the same.
Mediocrity sucks
Manny claimed by White Sox
Deal in the works, but he may still be with the Dodgers through the weekend
"I am an optimist - it does not seem to be much use being anything else" - W. Churchill
If the Dodgers are serious about trying to get *any* value for him
They won’t play him this weekend so that he doesn’t hurt his calf again. Because if he hurts it, the WS won’t complete a trade and can probably void the claim.
not as punny as SDcat00
But he still could be with the team
you know, for his leadership presence in the clubhouse
"I am an optimist - it does not seem to be much use being anything else" - W. Churchill
HA HA HAH A HA HAH AH AH A
HA HA HA HA HAH A HAH AHA
"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
Tee hee hee!
I still believe...
This is R year!
by prettyinpurple on Aug 27, 2010 3:14 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Not to mention he can't play defense
and Coors has the most ground to cover of almost all the left fields in baseball
MY FACEBOOK STATUS:WAITING AROUND THE CORNER FOR FRANKLIN MORALES
This is all true, except that in the past, it hasn't really come into play
Whether that’s because our hitters have struck out so $%@$#% many times in our Coors games against the Dodgers since his arrival, or whether it’s all our LH hitters pulling the ball and not taking advantage of the weakness in LF, I dunno.
But his defensive liabilities here haven’t really come back to bite the Dodgers, so I have no real reason to believe they’ll do so this weekend, if he plays.
not as punny as SDcat00
So the D'backs are considering installing a humidor.....
ZOMG what will Jon Miller say?!?!?
not as punny as SDcat00
That the Rockies can now cheat 90 times a year?
The 2010 Rockies are done!!!!! Do you hear me Rockies? You have NO SHOT at making the postseason. In fact I guarantee you will not make the postseason. (Okay, now that I have removed all expectations go out and make me eat these words)
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #1
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Aug 27, 2010 1:48 PM MDT up reply actions
I always thought it made more sense there than in CO
I mean it corrects for humidity not altitude
"I am an optimist - it does not seem to be much use being anything else" - W. Churchill
I am still in favor of it in CO
don’t get me wrong
.
.
Where is the lede
.
down here?
"I am an optimist - it does not seem to be much use being anything else" - W. Churchill
this.
"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
CO isn't nearly as Hot as AZ...
therefor its drier there
Ubaldo "Iron Arm" Jimenez
Seth Smith’s beard looks on in anticipation.
His name is Dan Uggla!
by Colsportsfan on Aug 27, 2010 5:59 PM MDT up reply actions
actually not really THAT close
relative humidity in Phoenix
relative humidity in Denver
"I am an optimist - it does not seem to be much use being anything else" - W. Churchill
Dew Point is a better representation
of humidity. The extreme high temperatures of Arizona will screw relative humidity lower.
so are we concerned more with the moisture in the air or in the baseball?
I believe my point stands, that a humidor makes more sense in AZ than in CO
Though it is a good idea in both places
"I am an optimist - it does not seem to be much use being anything else" - W. Churchill
From the looks of it, we are more concerned about winning an argument.
Just an average guy with exceptional hair. Nothing more, nothing less.
Bear Naked - My thoughts on sports, music, and life.
by Bryan Kilpatrick on Aug 27, 2010 2:22 PM MDT up reply actions
See my signature
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
Bazinga!!
by Junction Rox on Aug 27, 2010 2:22 PM MDT up reply actions
I am really actually interested in the idea of a humidor in AZ
I had a conversation with Dbacksskins about this last year. I think it is a great idea and makes more sense there than in CO, but the benefit it has yielded in CO bolsters the argument for installing it in AZ.
I would rather explore the argument than win it per se
"I am an optimist - it does not seem to be much use being anything else" - W. Churchill
I've wondered whether relative or absolute humidity is more important for baseball.
San Diego & LA differences from afternoon to night suggest maybe relative humidity (or temperature) are important.
"Are they called the Rockies because they rock?" - 7 y.o.
OK, but the LA SD analogy is in terms of the air not the baseball
bottom line: is the humidor a good idea in AZ?
"I am an optimist - it does not seem to be much use being anything else" - W. Churchill
The absolute humidity is more important.
That tells you how much water is in the air. The reason it matters is that water vapor is less dense than nitrogen and oxygen, so humidity makes the air thinner. The difference in density between dry air and humid air is still less than the difference between sea level and Denver, though.
but a humidor doesn't change the air that the ball travels through
"I am an optimist - it does not seem to be much use being anything else" - W. Churchill
When it first came out
I thought it did. I actually thought they installed a huge humidifier somewhere around Coors.
Ha!
I did too when I was a little kid.
I still believe...
This is R year!
by prettyinpurple on Aug 27, 2010 3:10 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Heat makes the air less dense, too
So, even if you took away the extra 2,000 feet of elevation in Phoenix, the air on a dry, hot summer day is less dense than the air on a warm, wet summer day on the coast.
Pilots are rather concerned with the concept of “density altitude,” and the charts they use measure the change as a function of temperature, not a function of humidity. Humidity plays a factor, just not as much of one.
The issue with the balls in the humidor, as I understand it, is that humidity in the material makes the object physically larger and heavier.
The humidor is all about ball density
The ball pretty much dries out more in the dry air in Colorado, which makes for a harder ball.
Exactly
and I haven’t figured out yet what measure of humidity is the best to use to figure out how rapidly the balls would dry out in various locations…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
Bazinga!!
by Junction Rox on Aug 27, 2010 3:15 PM MDT up reply actions
I don't know the equations
But I suspect they might both play a factor. Water may condense to a ball that’s cooler than the surrounding air, in which case the relative humidity would apply. Also, water may fill up the same volume dependent on the absolute humidity.
I’m confusing the hell out of myself. Pay no attention…
I wasn't....
:-)
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
Bazinga!!
by Junction Rox on Aug 27, 2010 3:22 PM MDT up reply actions
Relative humidity should be what controls the evaporation of water.
In fact, there’s a way to measure relative humidity that’s based on how much water evaporates from a damp cloth on a thermometer.
<a href=“http:// ”http://science-edu.larc.nasa.gov/SCOOL/psychrometer.html" target="_blank">http://science-edu.larc.nasa.gov/SCOOL/psychrometer.html" target="new">
http://science-edu.larc.nasa.gov/SCOOL/psychrometer.html
"Are they called the Rockies because they rock?" - 7 y.o.
It's not ALL about density
Pitchers say that they can’t get a good grip on a dry ball. The moisture allows the ball to maintain a degree of tackiness, which of course helps gripping and ball movement.
by trekinaz on Aug 27, 2010 6:16 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Not to poke holes in your argument
But Phoenix is at about 1,200 feet, not 2,000… and during hot summer days, the games are played indoors at a temperature of 78 degrees. So the balls aren’t going to fly like it’s 100.
The on-field temperature is actually warmer in April, May, and September, when the roof is often open and the 80-100 degree air is allowed in. Although I admit that I was astounded when they opened the roof in a June 4 game I attended this year vs the Rockies when it was over 100 at game time… but it was a Friday night and they always shoot off fireworks after Friday night games here. Hard to see those with the roof closed. They also ran the chillers the entire game with the roof open (I could feel the cool breeze), which was also somewhat amazing, but I’m sure it made APS happy.
All that said, they definitely should use a humidor here. It just seems like a no-brainer to me.
by trekinaz on Aug 27, 2010 6:13 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
theres a 20% diff
Ubaldo "Iron Arm" Jimenez
Seth Smith’s beard looks on in anticipation.
His name is Dan Uggla!
by Colsportsfan on Aug 27, 2010 6:00 PM MDT up reply actions
First off, I'll admit I've not waded through the 350 odd comments in this 'Pile (not meaning the posts are all odd).
But is there any feeling of an end of the month waiver trade on the horizon?
Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah, 1983
no, it doesn't seem likely
I guess there could be a surprise in the next few days, but the FO seems internally focused right now.
I was wondering about flipping one of our extra parts for the proverbial PTBL.
i.e. Clint Barmes
Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah, 1983
*PTBNL
Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah, 1983
sorry, didn't see it.
Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah, 1983
No worries.
I figured that’s probably what you were hinting at. It’s tough to find stuff amidst a thread that gets long.
OT,RG
After reading the threads of yesterday, and seeing you might be leaving us., i was wondering if you ever thought about writing a book about your experiences here on PR. I think your insight would be exceptional , especially relating to the female aspect of the fandom. Just a thought…I wish you well in all you endeavor. You are a very big part of why I continue to watch baseball and peruse PR. Thanks , Rox Girl !!!!!!!
I've definitely thought about it.
It’s a tricky thing, just as a general rule I seem to be better at fiction than non-fiction. Thus far when keeping it real I can’t quite maintain the friendly colloquial voice that’s needed for a good memoir. I tend to lapse into either a little too much pithiness or become too bland and holier than thou with my prose. I’m working at it, however.
Remember
Wieners are winners when it comes to writing.
"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
If you wrote a book, I'd buy it
The 2010 Rockies are done!!!!! Do you hear me Rockies? You have NO SHOT at making the postseason. In fact I guarantee you will not make the postseason. (Okay, now that I have removed all expectations go out and make me eat these words)
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #1
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Aug 27, 2010 4:10 PM MDT up reply actions
So Barmes' departure creates the roster spot for Morales.
Do both Morales and Deduno stay with the team for September?
3 days until my first Rockies game!
But are both Morales and Deduno going to be with the Rox in September for sure?
That’s what I want to know.
3 days until my first Rockies game!
by CentralCaliRox on Aug 27, 2010 3:40 PM MDT up reply actions
I wonder if either Cook or Francis will come back before the end of the year
and then what does that do to the rotation. I like the idea of Rogers as a late inning reliever but I wonder if it would be Cook, Francis (doesn’t seem likely to even come back this year), or Deduno as the 5th starter.
it's hard to tell
There is no way that Deduno bumps Rogers from the rotation, that won’t happen. But Cook or Francis can, if they come back strong.
yeah Rogers>>>Deduno
another crazy thought, what about Greg Reynolds maybe coming up? Bullpen options seem to be pretty thin otherwise. He’s been outstanding his last 4 starts. It’s just a thought.
I think they would go with Brothers or Bruce Billings first
Both are already tuned to bullpen work and pitching well.
Brothers FTW
3 days until my first Rockies game!
by CentralCaliRox on Aug 27, 2010 3:56 PM MDT up reply actions
It would interesting to see how a reemergence of Reynolds
as a prospect would affect the moves the Rockies make in the off season though. I mean he’s still a long ways off as far as making the team out of spring training next year but his last 4 starts have to have sparked some interest from the team.
absolutely, and that kind of ability would be why they haven't given up on him already
He’ll be in the same boat next season that Esmil Rogers is in right now, and it will be interesting to see if he steps up to the challenge.
I picked Other....
because I really want to see Nelson
Ubaldo "Iron Arm" Jimenez
Seth Smith’s beard looks on in anticipation.
His name is Dan Uggla!
Isn't he already on the 40 man roster, though?
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
Bazinga!!
by Junction Rox on Aug 27, 2010 3:45 PM MDT up reply actions
yea I just realized that, my bad
Ubaldo "Iron Arm" Jimenez
Seth Smith’s beard looks on in anticipation.
His name is Dan Uggla!
by Colsportsfan on Aug 27, 2010 6:03 PM MDT up reply actions
Go Rockies.
The OT: All that AND a bag of meat.
by frightened inmate #2 on Aug 27, 2010 3:59 PM MDT reply actions
Up in the Bay Area right now
Got away from the mid-100s of the Cali Valley. Please go whoop so Dodger ass tonight Rockies.
3 days until my first Rockies game!
You shoulda seen the temps up here Tues, it was triple digits and with the humidity… : )
It was so warm that Tuesday night I slept on the roof.
I still believe...
This is R year!
by prettyinpurple on Aug 27, 2010 4:42 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Sweet, exactly 400 comments.
Nobody comment any…..aw dammit.
The OT: All that AND a bag of meat.
by frightened inmate #2 on Aug 27, 2010 4:23 PM MDT reply actions
now we gotta add another 100
"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
lolz
It took me awhile to get that…
"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
I've actually got a signed copy of that book floating around somewhere.
Bradbury’s a very good conversationalist if you ever get the chance. Just celebrated his 90th birthday last week.
From Renck
It is out there now. So will let you know, Clint Barmes’ father is gravely ill. He hopes to rejoin team Monday, but concern is family
"Ninety feet between a hot dog and my mouth is too far" - Maria M (SDCAT09 is awesome for coming up with this fake quote for me!)
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
:(
I am really sad for the Barmes family right now. By all accounts, his dad raised a wonderful son…
not as punny as SDcat00
Thoughts and prayers out to Clint's dad and the whole family
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
Bazinga!!
by Junction Rox on Aug 27, 2010 4:56 PM MDT up reply actions
Thoughts and prayers go out to the Barmes family.
Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah, 1983
Good luck Barmes
I’m praying for you, your family, and your father.
Ugh. I wish him and his family all the best.
This has got to be a terrible time.
Dear Rockies - Please finish ahead of the hated Giants
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act. I'm going to miss you most of all. ( Please don't kill us wherever you play)
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
:(
More thoughts and prayers for the Barmes family.
Paleface Destro, Infield Butcher: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
Jason Hammel, Unsung Hero warns us all: Beware The Black Heart of Eckstein(tm)!
by Paleface Destro on Aug 27, 2010 6:05 PM MDT up reply actions
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