Rockies Review: Sherlock Lincecum Catches the COORS CHEATERZ (Or, I Have Had Enough)
Good evening, Rowbots. It's a dreary one where I am, not only due to the results of today but also because it's raining. (As a consequence of the former more than the latter, I am somewhat out of temper.) To say that that series, apart from last night, could have gone better is an understatement, but the Rockies already handicapped themselves coming into it by letting themselves get swept by the lowly Diamondbacks. That's the kind of thing that a serious contender just can't do in the season's closing weeks, and the guys shot themselves in the foot entirely on their own accord. While the streakiness was fun, it's going to take something more than last-gasp Rocktember magic to transform a team that was unpredictable all year into a playoff entrant. And to be perfectly honest, if you can't win on the road all year long, you don't really deserve it.
Recently, some of our opponents have been kind enough to suggest that the "something more" we have been employing is to resort to monkey business with the humidor. It's become a big enough issue that MLB has ordered the umpires to monitor it. Indeed, the Rockies couldn't possibly have actually won games on their own accord and pulled off late-inning rallies without a little black-market fixing.
I think it's time that this was addressed. If you feel likewise, join me after the jump.
Fair warning: I am very, very angry.
Ever since the Colorado Rockies were added into the National League in 1993, the one thing the rest of the country has "known" about them is that, thanks to their beautiful home city and its altitude of 5,280 feet, they have a ballpark that plays outside the average. "Coors Canaveral" and other such appellations have been the stock in trade of a lazy sports media that, even today, will start every story with how our park is such a feared place for pitchers, how not even a 10-run lead is safe, you can't be really sure that that guy's gaudy stats are legit, and so on and so forth. While no fool will deny that Coors did play like a pinball machine in the early going, it was for that very reason that the humidor was finally installed in 2002. The fact that the park continued to play host to a number of high-scoring games may just have had something to do with the corresponding sad but true fact that its home team and its home team's pitchers were, um, not that good. But after an organizational philosophy that for years had been characterized by constantly tinkering, trading for prospects, and making splashy free-agent signings was finally altered to a sustained, long-term strategy of developing a team from the ground up, things began to change.
Don't get me wrong. I am well aware that Coors Field remains very firmly a hitter's park, and no doubt some visiting pitchers probably still get ulcers at the thought of coming in in a close game. But I have to wonder just how much of this is due to the earlier reputation and continuing misperception, instead of present-day reality. You never have a guy's stats questioned because he plays in, say, Citizens Bank Park or the Ballpark at Arlington or Chase Field or any of the other notoriously hitter-friendly environs. Heaven forbid we do that. No, it's just Carlos Gonzalez who's not actually as good as he looks. You wonder, though. If Coors gives such a massive boost to the Rockies, why doesn't every guy on the team boast an identical stat line? Why is Todd Helton declining so much if he can still hit a lazy fly ball and have it turn into a homer? Why is Clint Barmes possible?
Yes, CarGo's splits are much better at home. That couldn't possibly be due to the fact that he plays 81 games here, and has a chance to become familiar with how the ball acts, or because almost every player in baseball does better at home, or because he's a legit five-tool talent. You can bet that during the MVP discussion, the Coors Question is going to come up. You can bet that it won't be applied to anyone else.
***
I digress. This article isn't necessarily about Carlos, although he's certainly relevant. No, I thought that it was finally time to concretely address the accusations of our opponents that we're using "non-juiced" balls that haven't been humidored, and slipping them into the game in the late innings in order to give the home team an unfair advantage.
Yes, what I just wrote is precisely what they think we've been doing. This batch of Einsteins has offered no evidence as to how we'd:
1) Keep the balls in play when a pitcher has a right to discard any foul ball, scuffed ball, or ball he plain doesn't like,
2) Ensure not only that the Rockies batters hit the ball, but to where there isn't a fielder, or make the fielder magically miss it;
3) Run out onto the field, ambush the umpire, change out his bag of balls, and hypnotize the entire crowd into forgetting what they've just seen;
4) Why in God's name we, faced with a series we absolutely had to win, would score one run in the first game, and then be no-hit into the eighth inning in the third one. (Oh, but we made a great comeback in the second one! CHEATING IS CLEARLY EVIDENT!!!111)
This series was at home, after all. We were in prime position to cheat. If we had magical baseballs that somehow canceled out the ability of every opposing pitcher and gave superhuman hitting power to everyone in purple pinstripes, don't you think we'd have started using them long before? Don't you think we would have, you know, actually beat up Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain, instead of letting them pwn our faces? Don't you think that we would be in Hogwarts? Don't you think that we would have reinvented the laws of physics? I am beyond baffled. And to be honest, disgusted.
Claiming that our late-season success is owed to underhanded humidor hijinks is plain stupid, lazy, ignorant, and classless. Now, I understand that the fact that the Rockies reviving from apparent death was alarming to those who felt they had it in the bag, but give me a break. It was due to the humidor that we swept the Padres in San Diego, amirite? We made sure to smuggle nonhumidored balls to San Diego, regardless of the fact that their balls aren't humidored either and thus would act exactly the same, sacrificed a live chicken and did some voodoo, and ta-da, sweep. Because it's clearly the Colorado freaking Rockies that MLB has an interest in giving a leg up. The thing about conspiracy theories is that they require more and more elaborate conspiracy theories to hold them up, until Occam's Razor is turned into Occam's Butter Knife and you are convinced that the universe itself is under the sway of an alien overlord named Xenu and a bunch of thetans. Whatever the hell thetans are. In fact, it's all directed at you personally, you can't trust anybody, you can't trust your own eyes, and everything that has taken place has a nefarious and manufactured purpose. From the New World Order.
Don't forget your tinfoil hat on the way out the door.
Conspiracy theories are an essential part of American psychology. JFK's assassination, the moon landing, and 9/11, just to name a few biggies. There is, for whatever reason, a part of our national character that is not inclined to accept the logical explanation. It's beyond me to explain it, and I'm going to stay well away from getting into deeper water on any of these. That is definitely not the point of this article. But no matter how many examinations of empirical reality are conducted and how many sourced conclusions are drawn, we reserve the right to point-blank discard it. You may not know how it happened, exactly, but you just know it didn't happen like that.
Huh?
This feeds into the very climate of our society today. It's pretty self-evident. In twenty-first-century America, if you say something loudly enough and long enough, it becomes true -- or at least you believe it, and therefore it's true. Just think of your (least) favorite outrageous media personality, and just think of something that they've managed to get large numbers of your fellow citizens believing -- not because there's a shred of evidence for it, or because it's a compelling case, but because it appeals to the Gut. It feels right, it explains why the Man keeps keeping you down, and why your favorite sports team is choking. As Jonathan Swift once observed, you can't be reasoned out of something you weren't reasoned into. So instead, we operate in a state of permanent, persistent, and aggressive denial. If you get on TV and you say it, even better. We are creating our own realities that have nothing to do with the actual one, and the more we calcify ourselves into our shells, the harder it is to hear each other. It is dangerous, and it is detrimental -- to our civic life, to our politics, and to our humanity. When arguments and evidence are disregarded and you can just believe any old thing you want, we're moving into some pretty scary territory. When you attempt to talk someone out of this, therefore, it looks as if you're not attacking their beliefs, you're attacking them personally. There isn't a separation any more. We have largely lost the knack for cordial disagreement. When you're anonymous and you can say anything you want to your computer screen, it's much, much easier to "flame." Thus, your opponent isn't a person, but the bite-sized capsule of belief that is personally offensive to yours, and thus can be taken down with a sledgehammer.
I am emphatically not saying that we shouldn't question official explanations, that we shouldn't ask questions, that we shouldn't have the right to free speech, that we shouldn't have the right to our own beliefs, or any of that. Saying that I am is a complete misstatement of my argument. What I am arguing instead is that this humidor controversy is entirely a product of its sociological context, and thus in some sense predictable. It doesn't need to supply evidence, it doesn't need to be plausible, and it doesn't need to be logical. It just needs to be there. Somebody will pick it up and run with it. Boom. It LIIIIIVES.
In the increasingly small world we inhabit, when a story can travel worldwide as fast as it can be Twittered and speculation is speculated upon and the angle on the news is who's fighting with who, this kind of thing can take root, and take root deeply. Don't underestimate it.
As Rockies fans, we constantly carp that our pitchers are ignored, our hitters are discredited, and that we didn't get a front-page mention on ESPN. Some of these are more fatuous than others. But the fact is, we just don't get it. As a wise man named Ubaldo Jimenez said, it couldn't be that our hitters are doing well because they're good at the game of baseball. It's because of some contorted, evil scheme that probably involves the Illuminati and their headquarters under DIA. It couldn't be because they play here so often. Nope. We're fixing the game. And I, as a person who passionately, passionately loves this great American pastime, find this disingenuous and appalling. This is a serious accusation. It got Shoeless Joe and Pete Rose thrown out. It led to the code of conduct that I found on the wall of a minor league clubhouse a few weeks ago, which I wrote about in my last Rockies Review. In which, gambling and attempting to throw games are expressly and severely prohibited.
You might remember one other line:
Respect yourself, your teammates, and the game.
A bunch of nice guys like the Rockies are clearly incapable of that. Or so you'd think.
***
In the post-steroids era, after we discovered that our heroes were just as flawed, messy, and human as us, there's now a paranoid, immediate suspicion of every achievement. It just can't be legit. There has to be a catch. Success doesn't come without pharmaceuticals or asterisks any more. What we wait for is somebody to slip up. It's the universal human impulse. Watch someone else go down.
So, to our opponents: If you want to go on claiming that we're cheating, fine. We certainly can't stop you. But recognize it for what it is: you can't deal with the fact that the team that used to be a reliable doormat is finally coming into its own. That you have to argue, make excuses, and evade. You can just go ahead and make up all kinds of justifications, and come up with "incontrovertible proof" of our malediction. Freeze-frame videos and parse out double meanings. Tim Lincecum and the Padres radio guys said it, so it must be true.
Yup.
For what it's worth, we're probably going to miss the playoffs anyway, so I guess we should have cheated more, huh? Should have programmed Tulo to hit a few more homers, should have remembered to break out the doctored baseballs a little earlier today. (And no doubt we decided to put Tulo and CarGo on steroids for this month alone.) We should have helped Ubaldo win a few more games in his post All-Star break malaise. We should have stopped Huston from blowing those saves. After all, our magical baseballs can do that.
Come on, guys. Seriously. Come on.
Respect the game enough to respect its magic.
Leave it all out there on the field.
Go Rockies.
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Exactly.
I'm a BelieveR!!!
This is R year!
Uh, yeah, about that...
by prettyinpurple on Sep 26, 2010 6:28 PM MDT via mobile reply actions
Fantastic.
I especially loved this:
until Occam’s Razor is turned into Occam’s Butter Knife and you are convinced that the universe itself is under the sway of an alien overlord named Xenu and a bunch of thetans.
:D
"Are they called the Rockies because they rock?" - 7 y.o.
Now I'm going to
receive angry e-mails from Scientologists.
"No Mission Too Difficult, No Sacrifice Too Great—Duty First" - 1st Infantry Division Motto
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
SB Nation Denver - The regional hub for Denver sports!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.
/claps slowly and stands
HELL YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!
2010 Colorado Zombies--It ain't over til it's over. So says Troy Torridwitzki
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.Good luck with the Rays!
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
Not that you care Silver...but you're very popular at MCC because of this post
2010 Colorado Zombies--It ain't over til it's over. So says Troy Torridwitzki
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.Good luck with the Rays!
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
Best part is they are taking issue with your Carlos Gonzalez comments
which is completely not the point of your article.
2010 Colorado Zombies--It ain't over til it's over. So says Troy Torridwitzki
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.Good luck with the Rays!
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
Good idea....
2010 Colorado Zombies--It ain't over til it's over. So says Troy Torridwitzki
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.Good luck with the Rays!
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
If they have something to say to me, my email address is in my profile
otherwise, what they say is their business. I’m not going to go there and get involved in that drama. I am way, way over Internet drama for good.
The Seldom Herd
"Facts" and "physics" and "logic" are foreign to them
They want to burn the witch.
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883.
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 6:44 PM MDT up reply actions
Surprising...they probaby went all "tl;dr" after the second sentence.
You know, because there are no f-bombs and all.
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883.
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 6:45 PM MDT up reply actions
"Claiming that our late-season success is owed to underhanded humidor hijinks is plain stupid, lazy, ignorant, and classless
Sadly, this is the San Francisco Spoiled Children you’re talking about. Neither they nor anyone associated with them are capable of anything better.
Well-written, as always. I totally agree with you, but you’re able to put it much better. While “DESTRO SMASH” is amusing for a while, it doesn’t really make the point very well. :)
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883.
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 6:44 PM MDT reply actions
Wow Silver
That paragraph were you quoted Swift is some of the best writing i have seen. You so neatly and precisely summed up an important truth of our social condition. So many political writers have epically failed to state it as clearly as you did in a baseball rant.
Really good job
While I think you exaggerate the extent of the discredit given to the Rockies because of Coors Field (and of the seriousness of cheating accusations)...
I agree with the sentiment posed therein.
The writer formerly known as Jabberwocky
READ and LEARN about the business of baseball at Purple Row Academy
Eschew Obfuscation!
The extent of the discredit given by the media? They certainly seem to paint a pretty picture of how easy it is to score runs at Coors. “You can score 25 runs in a heart beat here”, “No lead is ever safe in this ballpark”. While obviously they are making overstatements for reasons that serve their own purpose it doesn’t seem to keep the general baseball fan from believing them. The average fan I run into suggests that Coors is some kind of fantasy land where average Joes can be triple crown winners.
I think it's not possible to exaggerate the extent of the discredit given to the Rockies
…because of the cheating accusations. Now that it’s come from the lips of Timmeh the Stonehighmfer, through the pen of Brian the Sabeanific Dunce, MLB’s decided that there may just be something to it. Because if enough people from the bay say it may be true, then it just may be true. No matter how lazy, irresponsible, and completely unsupported by any actual fact it is.
No, that barn door has been opened way too wide now.
ROCKTEMBER - Time for Some F***ing Guy to Shine
ROCKTEMBER - The month before we play Mora playoff games
ROCKTEMBER - The rest of you can settle for Festivus
I don't think MLB's actions necessarily mean that they think there might actually be something to it.
I think it’s more of a way to appease another team and assure everyone that no, there isn’t anything going on. If they refused to do anything, it would just continue to fuel the rumors.
Exactly.
For all I know, the folks in the league office may have been on the other end of the phone rolling their eyes while they agreed to step in. John Hirschbeck certainly seemed to take an extremely dim view of the whole thing.
I do it with my children all the time.
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 8:51 PM MDT up reply actions
I agree, I don't think any of this necessarily means MLB beleives anything's up
Especially as they’ve had a camera trained on the humidor since the beginning.
But the MLB dispelling anything won’t stop gasbags like Miller and Sabean from continuing to feed into it, because neither will be able to stand being made to look wrong or foolish in this. Timmeh will probably just spark up an extra bowl between starts, to assuage his loss of grip on reality.
ROCKTEMBER - Time for Some F***ing Guy to Shine
ROCKTEMBER - The month before we play Mora playoff games
ROCKTEMBER - The rest of you can settle for Festivus
Absolutely love the paragraph that starts with
This feeds into the very climate of our society today.
Silver you are one amazing writer and I am truly jealous of your talent.
"Don't be pushed by your problems. Be led by your dreams."
Uh, Giants fan here.
I totally agree with this post. No one has any real evidence of tampering, so no one should be saying anything. A few broadcasters have made extremely bold claims, and it has since snowballed into a media shitstorm that the MLB can’t help but address. Meanwhile, most people have forgotten that no one has actually come up with any viable evidence to prove those claims.
Carlos Gonzalez and Troy Tulowitzki are great hitters with gamebreaking power, and it shouldn’t be a huge shock to ANYBODY that they are playing to that potential in big games.
Fuck Armageddon, this is hell.
by Disaster on Sep 26, 2010 8:26 PM MDT reply actions 2 recs
No evidence, except from the lips of Jon Miller, Timmeh, and Brian Sabean
All Gints.
ROCKTEMBER - Time for Some F***ing Guy to Shine
ROCKTEMBER - The month before we play Mora playoff games
ROCKTEMBER - The rest of you can settle for Festivus
Jeff Cirillo
Tony LaRussa
The St. Louis Cardinals Bullpen
unnamed “other pitchers” since 2002
by Andrew Martin on Sep 27, 2010 7:51 AM MDT up reply actions
I believe Ken Macha (or whoever managed the A's then) complained as well
But that’s just because we posted two straight shutouts against them at Coors
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Sep 27, 2010 9:55 AM MDT up reply actions
Rec'd
Thank you…it’s easy to paint Giants fans with a broad brush, but you help us remember that good Giants fans do exist.
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 8:54 PM MDT up reply actions
Hello!
I’m a Giants fan, and I post at MCC every once in a while. I’d first like to compliment you on writing a very cohesive and interesting composition, and I’d like to craft a respectful (but perhaps not quite as well-written) response.
I’m a little confused as to how Carlos Gonzalez’s overall 5-tool talent disproves the OMG CHEATERZ theory. Obviously, he’s a fantastic player, but you even admitted his home/road splits were wonky. You stated that this can be written off to a better knowledge of the flight of the ball; however, if this was truly the case, almost every hitter who has played multiple seasons in a similarly offensive ballyard would have as enormous a difference in wOBA, OPS, and whatever other stat you want between home/road. Joey Votto is a prime example of a player who, although he plays in a hitter-friendly park, still hits just as well, if not better, on the road. Of course most players hit better at home (basically everyone on the Giants seems to), but Carlos Gonzalez has absolutely ridiculous splits. I see above that you didn’t intend to make this the center of your argument, so I won’t either, but I hope you consider my point.
In the Swift paragraph, you say <<When arguments and evidence are disregarded and you can just believe any old thing you want, we’re moving into some pretty scary territory. When you attempt to talk someone out of this, therefore, it looks as if you’re not attacking their beliefs, you’re attacking them personally.>> I know I may sound a little odd when I say this, but you seem to have taken a similar attack on your beliefs personally. Of course, you stated your counter-opinion in a much more respectful manner, but you really didn’t present any empirical evidence supporting your claim. As such, it appears you have fallen into your own pitfalls of accepting truth before you know it is the truth.
I know I didn’t put an immense amount of time into writing this and it’s terrible, so I’ll sum up so you don’t have to weed through it:
I don’t think the Rockies are cheating, but you need to be more accepting of those who do. There is a lot of evidence pointing to the OMG CHEATERZ theory, and your only defense is “innocent until proven guilty” and the societal shift toward unproven ideals. As such, I think Rockies fans should just take the high road (and so should Giants and Padres fans). We should stop attacking each other over this and just be happy that the MLB is overseeing the process and taking concerns seriously.
As a respectful question
What is the “lot of evidence” for the cheating theory? Just because CarGo has wonky splits?
The Seldom Herd
Players do better at home, generally?
This may be enhanced when the ball admittedly moves much differently at home than on the road due to accepted scientific reasons?
Surely you jest, Silver.
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 8:48 PM MDT up reply actions
Science?
What’s this “science” thing of which you speak? Next thing, you’ll be trying to say airplanes actually fly due to similar “science” and not because the Flying Spaghetti Monster wills it.
Clearly, you’re a witch, and the devil must be purged from you, with FIRE!
Can we use liquor instead?
That’s much more fun.
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 8:51 PM MDT up reply actions
Seriously, this makes me want to build charts depicting seasonal changes in Density Altitude
And how they differ from ballpark to ballpark. Unfortunately, I have to do REAL homework, so I can’t do that right now.
Suffice to say that a 95F day in SF (yeah, right) is 2,000’ PA, while a 95F day (like in Denver today) is about 8,000’PA. Which is, as you can see, more than the difference between the actual altitudes, and is a multiplier in the equations governing the flight and movement on a baseball.
Given the cool nature of SF weather in general, particularly at night, it’s not uncommon for the PA to be LESS than sea-level, allowing balls to break even more sharply than on a standard day.
And I still say they’re using over-humidified swamp balls there, too.
Exactly. There has been plenty of evidence and level-headed explanation as to why things happen the way they do at LOLCORZ
Unwillingness to listen to any of it does not change its existence.
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 9:05 PM MDT up reply actions
Here's a quick calculation
The density of air at LOLCOORZ on a summer afternoon (30C) is 0.873 kg/m^3.
The density of air in SF on a cool evening (10C) is 1.247 kg/m^3.
That’s air that’s 70% less-dense in Colorado, resulting in fewer aerodynamic forces on a ball.
You know what? This might be why the team did so well in day games this year, too. They’re used to hitting balls with less movement at home, so a ball with less movement during the warmer day than the cooler night might be closer to what they see as “normal” 81 games/year.
Yep, exactly
See, this makes sense to me, but then again, I studied aeronautical engineering in school, and not everyone did….I can see where fluid mechanics would be voodoo to some.
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 9:18 PM MDT up reply actions
I'm a pilot
With a degree in Rocket Science. But I’m with you, and can accept that, as Arthur C Clarke said, “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic,” and this could be magic for some people.
PFM indeed
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 9:20 PM MDT up reply actions
yep, home park and ball moving differently
that explains Cargo’s .400 OPS split
here’s the proof
Tulo: .157 OPS split
Mora: .095
Folwer: .380 (Fowler is below replacement on the road)
Helton: .008 (yep)
Barmes: .057
Stewart: -.057 (BETTER on the road)
Olivo: .298 (also below replacement on the road)
Carlos Gonzalez may just be the new Dante Bichette, I’m afraid to say.
by Andrew Martin on Sep 27, 2010 8:00 AM MDT up reply actions
Let's wait to see next year
I’m betting that split won’t be so vast. It wasn’t as ridiculous in 2009.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Sep 27, 2010 9:56 AM MDT up reply actions
I completely and wholeheartedly agree
but there’s still something to be said of that extreme of a split. It’s hard to just sift through the “oh well that’s a standard home/road split”
by Andrew Martin on Sep 27, 2010 10:14 AM MDT up reply actions
No, I don't think we need to be more accepting. There is not a "lot of evidence"
You are entitled to your own opinion. You are not entitled to your own facts.
When someone like Jon Miller utters this kind of crap, well, people have gotten sued for that kind of thing before.
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 8:48 PM MDT up reply actions
You guys don't think I understand ball flight and altitude theory?
Of course I do. I understand that offensive numbers will be higher at Coors. I stated that, perhaps in a less than verbose manner, but I stated it. I went through silver’s whole argument, so I expect you to do the same. Here, I’ll make my argument more readable, since apparently I can’t write:
BALLS GO FURTHER IN LOLCORZ
CARGO, TULO, GOOD AT BASEBALL
ROCKIES HIT BETTER AT HOME BECAUSE LOLCORZ ALTITUDE
SOME PEOPLE THINK ROCKIES=CHEATERS
NOT ME THO
THERE WAS NO OVERSIGHT IN THE PROCESS, SO QUESTIONS AROSE
NOW THAT THERE’S OVERSIGHT, PEOPLE LESS SCARED
JUST ACCEPT THAT SOME PEOPLE THINK YOU CHEAT
YOU GUYS ARE NOT THE ROCKIES, YOU ARE FANS, YOU DON’T NEED TO PROVE YOURSELVES TO ANYONE
YOU ARE GOOD PEOPLE, SO BE NICE TO ME
GOOD NIGHT, DENVER
JUST ACCEPT THAT SOME PEOPLE THINK YOU CHEAT
Um, no.
“Some people” need to accept the truth, and not their assumptions borne of ignorance.
ROCKTEMBER - Time for Some F***ing Guy to Shine
ROCKTEMBER - The month before we play Mora playoff games
ROCKTEMBER - The rest of you can settle for Festivus
while with a level head, I don't think the Rockies cheated
may I play the Devils Advocate here? you just said that “some people need to accept the truth”, so may I say… can you PROVE, with any authority, that they did not ever, not once, cheat? Even honestly, accidentally using a non-humidor ball is still cheating.
I mean, can anyone absolutely prove it? The only oversight of the balls was really on the Rockies behalf. Rockies employees were the only ones with access. Remember, I’m just playing devils advocate here. But can anyone truly, 100% prove that not a single non-humidor ball was ever used?
no, they can’t. When it comes down to essentially “they said, we said”, there’s not alot that can be done except for stricter oversight to ensure the issue is laid to rest.
Unless there is concrete, I mean CONCRETE PROOF, you can’t say that it is the truth that not a single non-humidor ball was never put into play. Once again, just playing Devils Advocate here.
by giant4life83 on Sep 27, 2010 4:46 AM MDT up reply actions
Once again, the burden of proof is not on any of us to prove the negative
Absent a single shred of evidence whatsoever, that even a single non-humidor ball even accidentally made it in a ball bag….in other words, no a single centilla of evidence…no, there is no burden on us to prove a negative.
And the side of the allegers does not get to shift that burden just because it suits their desires. It is up to the Gints to come forward with evidence, or they can simply shut up. “They said/we said” doesn’t given your position any credibility at all just on the basis of you having said it.
I think Cody Ross and Andres Torres cork their bats. I’m not the only one who thinks so, so therefore it must be true. Or, jeez….at least there’s enough of a chance it’s true that MLB should actually investigate the allegation further. Especially since neither of them, nor have the club, proven that their bats aren’t corked. Give us CONCRETE PROOF that they haven’t corked even a single one of their bats.
That kinda sounds silly, right? It’s the same damn thing.
ROCKTEMBER - Time for Some F***ing Guy to Shine
ROCKTEMBER - The month before we play Mora playoff games
ROCKTEMBER - The rest of you can settle for Festivus
Also, you can't prove a negative
Making an accusation and then expecting the accused to prove the negative is what kangaroo courts do.
Hey, Giants fans, when did you stop beating your wives?
we stopped beating our wives to beat yours instead.
Being civil, was, apparently, too much to ask of you.
by giant4life83 on Sep 27, 2010 3:16 PM MDT up reply actions
im sorry, i shouldn’t have said that. but neither should you. domestic abuse is a serious f’ing issue, way more serious than baseball
by giant4life83 on Sep 27, 2010 3:17 PM MDT up reply actions
Enough. Both of you.
The writer formerly known as Jabberwocky
READ and LEARN about the business of baseball at Purple Row Academy
Eschew Obfuscation!
Respectfully, I would like to point out
that that’s not exactly laying out a case as to why we’re supposedly cheaters.
The Seldom Herd
Well then, you're going to have to accept
that that’s not about to convince anyone of the supposed evidence.
The Seldom Herd
Opinion not supported by any evidence at all, sure
Saying there’s “a lot of evidence” does not make the existence of any evidence so. If you actually do, then spell it out. We’re giving you opportunity after opportunity to do so.
ROCKTEMBER - Time for Some F***ing Guy to Shine
ROCKTEMBER - The month before we play Mora playoff games
ROCKTEMBER - The rest of you can settle for Festivus
You seem to have missed the point of my argument.
But I did enjoy your comments about Buster Posey’s pedophilia. Would you like to recant those?
No, we got your argument, and went through Silver's as well.
You’re just off-base. I’m glad that MLB is stepping in to quell any concerns, but seriously, this is ridiculous.
I accept that some people think the Rockies cheat. I also accept there are ignorant people in the world. Doesn’t mean I have to like it or be silent about it. I’m not sure what the point is here.
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 9:16 PM MDT up reply actions
Why can't anyone be silent? I'm not denying or defending steroids.
(CLEARLY different issues, but similar levels of adversity). I just stay quiet about it, and, as a fan, I will never have to deal with it.
They certainly can. They can also choose not to.
Therein lies some of the entertainment I find in life.
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 9:26 PM MDT up reply actions
The difference is, the actual evidence of Bonds' steroid use exists
…in the BALCO drug tests. The fact they were not court-admissible does not negate their existence.
In the present situation, no evidence at all has been presented. Only unfounded conclusions drawn from a complete failure to review the actual facts.
ROCKTEMBER - Time for Some F***ing Guy to Shine
ROCKTEMBER - The month before we play Mora playoff games
ROCKTEMBER - The rest of you can settle for Festivus
It's not just the flight of the struck ball
It’s the flight of the pitched ball that plays a major factor too.
Also, the Coors outfield is cavernous. Put it anywhere, and it’s going to be hitter-friendly.
Point being there are a zillion perfectly good explanations that will do, without tacitly supporting one idiotic conspiracy theory.
A cavernous outfield generally increases XBHs
but more than makes up for it with the HRs taken away. Generally, and outfielder’s range is greater than the space he is required to cover in a small outfield, so he would be utilizing more “wasted” range than actual open space added, per se.
And to that end.....
Rox pitchers are near the major league lead in fewest HRs given up. And yet Coors gives up far more than its share of doubles and triples. So, it actually performed pretty much exactly as it should, given the existence and constant use of the humidor.
ROCKTEMBER - Time for Some F***ing Guy to Shine
ROCKTEMBER - The month before we play Mora playoff games
ROCKTEMBER - The rest of you can settle for Festivus
1. There is no evidence whatsoever of cheating
2. I don’t think the Rockies are cheating, but you need to be more accepting of those who do.
Why? We don’t have to be accepting of any accusations of cheating at all.
3. There is a lot of evidence pointing to the OMG CHEATERZ theory,
Such as? Um, no. No evidence at all. Zero. Lay out your “evidence” to it, or stfu and gtfo.
4. We should stop attacking each other over this and just be happy that the MLB is overseeing the process and taking concerns seriously.
The only basis for “concerns” is the west coast’s complete inability to grasp the reality that the Rockies have finally developed a decent club. These “concerns” aren’t grounded in any reality other than the delusions of the dumbfounded.
ROCKTEMBER - Time for Some F***ing Guy to Shine
ROCKTEMBER - The month before we play Mora playoff games
ROCKTEMBER - The rest of you can settle for Festivus
by Mondogarage on Sep 26, 2010 9:09 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
This, this, a thousand times, THIS.
3. There is a lot of evidence pointing to the OMG CHEATERZ theory,Such as? Um, no. No evidence at all. Zero. Lay out your "evidence" to it, or stfu and gtfo.
Evidence generally lies in the home/road splits.
In themselves, they could be construed as damning. I don’t see it that way, but some do. Plus, it’s not as if you have provided any evidence to the contrary, besides hostility.
Again...
The ball acts completely differently at Coors. The Rockies are there 81 games a year. They are accustomed to seeing the ball differently.
And I am attempting to stop the hostility, but honestly, you’re asking us to accept that our team is systematically and massively fixing games. That’s going to touch a nerve in people.
The Seldom Herd
I'll lighten up on the hostility as soon as they lighten up on their ignorance
ROCKTEMBER - Time for Some F***ing Guy to Shine
ROCKTEMBER - The month before we play Mora playoff games
ROCKTEMBER - The rest of you can settle for Festivus
Unfortunately, the Rules and Regulations DON'T say
Ad hominem attacks and hostility are not to be tolerated….UNLESS you personally believe the OP is full of crap
That’s the kind of view that got Redhawk banned
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Sep 26, 2010 9:36 PM MDT up reply actions
I propose an amendment...
j/k /duck/
It'll all be ok in the end. If it's not ok, it's not the end.
"I hope this game isn't horrible. Because if it is, we're going to have to wait until tomorrow to see the Rockies win." ~5-yo
"Sometimes you're the windshield, and sometimes you're the bug."~Mitch Williams
Chief Engineer of the Ubaldo Lovers Club, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
by Rox the Casbah on Sep 26, 2010 10:05 PM MDT up reply actions
it's equally not funny that Gints fans get to come troll PR to say we need to prove we're not cheating
ROCKTEMBER - Time for Some F***ing Guy to Shine
ROCKTEMBER - The month before we play Mora playoff games
ROCKTEMBER - The rest of you can settle for Festivus
by Mondogarage on Sep 27, 2010 10:04 AM MDT up reply actions
they aren't trolling
they’re being levelheaded and attempting to converse.
by Andrew Martin on Sep 27, 2010 10:14 AM MDT up reply actions
You must have missed the multiple posters who came in here saying...
…that the burden of proof is on us to prove we’re not cheating, in the absence of any actual evidence presented by anyone that we are. And them then trying to shirk accountability for that by saying “well, I don’t believe you are, but just the same….”
That’s pretty much no more than a step or two away from McCarthyism, really. (Obv, on a much less important matter, but the tactic is the same.)
ROCKTEMBER - Time for Some F***ing Guy to Shine
ROCKTEMBER - The month before we play Mora playoff games
ROCKTEMBER - The rest of you can settle for Festivus
by Mondogarage on Sep 27, 2010 10:18 AM MDT up reply actions
McCarthyism isn't necessarily trolling
yes, you COULD construe their topics and means of presenting said topics as trolling, but they’re not attacking, flaming, whatever. If anything, they’re waiting for people to get fired up.
by Andrew Martin on Sep 27, 2010 10:23 AM MDT up reply actions
waiting for people to get fired up...
so, trolling.
It'll all be ok in the end. If it's not ok, it's not the end.
"I hope this game isn't horrible. Because if it is, we're going to have to wait until tomorrow to see the Rockies win." ~5-yo
"Sometimes you're the windshield, and sometimes you're the bug."~Mitch Williams
Chief Engineer of the Ubaldo Lovers Club, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
by Rox the Casbah on Sep 27, 2010 10:27 AM MDT up reply actions
I'd say we're more easily trolled than they're effective trolls.
by Andrew Martin on Sep 27, 2010 10:34 AM MDT up reply actions
Doesn't matter
the definition of trolling includes making inflammatory posts, and what is inflammatory changes by the board. Nasty comments about religion, for example, might be the order of the day on an atheist-oriented forum, but won’t go over so well on a more religiously-oriented one. If they come over making a comment with the intention of getting us “fired up,” it’s trolling, regardless of anyone’s opinion that we should or should not be sensitive to certain topics.
It'll all be ok in the end. If it's not ok, it's not the end.
"I hope this game isn't horrible. Because if it is, we're going to have to wait until tomorrow to see the Rockies win." ~5-yo
"Sometimes you're the windshield, and sometimes you're the bug."~Mitch Williams
Chief Engineer of the Ubaldo Lovers Club, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
by Rox the Casbah on Sep 27, 2010 10:51 AM MDT up reply actions
bringing up a controversial topic that is part of the news and expressing the public opinion is not trolling, I'm afraid
Again, if this were their own concocted thing, yeah, total trolling. But when the MSM is all over it, it isn’t trolling.
by Andrew Martin on Sep 27, 2010 11:12 AM MDT up reply actions
and how many giants fans do you think are going to march over here
and clog up our forum saying the same. stupid. thing. over and over. “well, you know, it’s not me, personally, but everyone believes you’re all a bunch of dirty cheaters until you prove yourselves innocent because Miller/Lincecum/Padres radio guy/whoever ran off at the mouth…”
Seriously? These people need to grow a brain, and possibly some other parts. If it’s said once and refuted, fine. DON’T COME OVER AND SAY THE SAME THING. If you have something to add to advance the discussion, fine. Using slightly different words to express the same invalid sentiment is not welcome. It’s not even that I’m hurt or upset, as that I’m tired of “z”-ing through comments on the same idiotic premise that are completely two-faced, because they pretend to be “civil” or even “intellectual” conversation, when in fact the whole reason for being here is to stir the pot. If people didn’t feed the trolls, if every single rowbot could agree to ignore them, maybe they would stfu and gtfo.
It'll all be ok in the end. If it's not ok, it's not the end.
"I hope this game isn't horrible. Because if it is, we're going to have to wait until tomorrow to see the Rockies win." ~5-yo
"Sometimes you're the windshield, and sometimes you're the bug."~Mitch Williams
Chief Engineer of the Ubaldo Lovers Club, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
by Rox the Casbah on Sep 27, 2010 11:22 AM MDT up reply actions
I'm tired of z-ing through comments on this particular topic entirely
what would you have me do, ban them for civilly discussing a topic which is news and such?
by Andrew Martin on Sep 27, 2010 11:27 AM MDT up reply actions
I think you're defining "civil" here as
“trolling but without dropping f-bombs”.
They’re not so much “discussing” it, as simply saying hey, we think you’re cheating (even if I don’t think so), so you better disprove it, because we think you are, and we don’t have to prove it.
And that’s trolling. So yeah, I’d ban them, particularly given their own ban happy nature. They’re not here to discuss, they’re here to troll.
But I no longer expect PR to handle them in the same manner in which they’ve treated us. I can lower my expectations far enough for that, I suppose.
ROCKTEMBER - Time for Some F***ing Guy to Shine
ROCKTEMBER - The month before we play Mora playoff games
ROCKTEMBER - The rest of you can settle for Festivus
by Mondogarage on Sep 27, 2010 11:35 AM MDT up reply actions
Russ and Grant
Pistols at Dawn
that’s the only way we can settle this grave insult.
by Andrew Martin on Sep 27, 2010 11:38 AM MDT up reply actions
Normally, I'd agree with you...
…but Russ has kinda led the appeasement brigade, so I’m pretty sure his pistol would have blanks…
/admittedly still pissed off about Russ going to GLB and literally apologizing for PR users’ posts
ROCKTEMBER - Time for Some F***ing Guy to Shine
ROCKTEMBER - The month before we play Mora playoff games
ROCKTEMBER - The rest of you can settle for Festivus
by Mondogarage on Sep 27, 2010 11:45 AM MDT up reply actions
I didn't do any of that.
"No Mission Too Difficult, No Sacrifice Too Great—Duty First" - 1st Infantry Division Motto
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
SB Nation Denver - The regional hub for Denver sports!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.
Okay, well, I may be misattributing the apology
and if so, I apologize to you.
It is, in fact true, that one of our mods went over to GLB and apologized for PR users posting over there that night everyone got banned. My memory would seem to be inaccurate as to whom that was, so I’ll no longer put a name to it.
ROCKTEMBER - Time for Some F***ing Guy to Shine
ROCKTEMBER - The month before we play Mora playoff games
ROCKTEMBER - The rest of you can settle for Festivus
by Mondogarage on Sep 27, 2010 11:49 AM MDT up reply actions
If you are posting something with the intent of getting someone "fired up,"
as your post above said, is that really civilly discussing? I don’t know about anyone else, but when I engage in civil discussion, that is not my aim. It is also not my aim in civil discussion to repeat the same invalid assertion over and over again, as if that might somehow validate it. Simply saying “I’m engaging in civil discussion” doesn’t make it so.
It'll all be ok in the end. If it's not ok, it's not the end.
"I hope this game isn't horrible. Because if it is, we're going to have to wait until tomorrow to see the Rockies win." ~5-yo
"Sometimes you're the windshield, and sometimes you're the bug."~Mitch Williams
Chief Engineer of the Ubaldo Lovers Club, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
by Rox the Casbah on Sep 27, 2010 11:39 AM MDT up reply actions
to you? really? you're the one who originally noted it
If anything, they’re waiting for people to get fired up.
It'll all be ok in the end. If it's not ok, it's not the end.
"I hope this game isn't horrible. Because if it is, we're going to have to wait until tomorrow to see the Rockies win." ~5-yo
"Sometimes you're the windshield, and sometimes you're the bug."~Mitch Williams
Chief Engineer of the Ubaldo Lovers Club, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
by Rox the Casbah on Sep 27, 2010 11:42 AM MDT up reply actions
their intent is plain
in the fact they feel the need to go to their neighbor’s house to accuse them of cheating, knowingly doing so without evidence.
It’s a res ipsa loquitor thing. Their posts here speak for themselves.
ROCKTEMBER - Time for Some F***ing Guy to Shine
ROCKTEMBER - The month before we play Mora playoff games
ROCKTEMBER - The rest of you can settle for Festivus
by Mondogarage on Sep 27, 2010 11:46 AM MDT up reply actions
They can't discuss anything civilly on their OWN boards
Why would you expect the leopard to change its stripes when it comes over here?
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 27, 2010 5:07 PM MDT up reply actions
let's stop the shit talking, thank you
by Andrew Martin on Sep 27, 2010 5:07 PM MDT up reply actions
I thought it was a valid concern, based on what can easily be observed
That said, point taken.
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 27, 2010 5:19 PM MDT up reply actions
Casbah's Recipe for Troll Salad, San Fransisco style:
1 lb grapes, halved
1 cantaloupe, cut into bite size chunks
1 lb strawberries, quarted
1 lb peaches, wedged or diced
1 lb mandarin oranges
5 bananas, sliced
2 lb mandarin orange sections
1 pineapple, diced
2 lb sliced almonds
1 lb walnuts
2 lb small (1 cm) marshmallows
Bona fide SF Gints fan trolls harvested from PR
Mix fruit, nuts, marshmallows, and troll in a large bowl. Chill for at least one hour. Serve.
It'll all be ok in the end. If it's not ok, it's not the end.
"I hope this game isn't horrible. Because if it is, we're going to have to wait until tomorrow to see the Rockies win." ~5-yo
"Sometimes you're the windshield, and sometimes you're the bug."~Mitch Williams
Chief Engineer of the Ubaldo Lovers Club, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
by Rox the Casbah on Sep 27, 2010 11:54 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't understand how
you think them saying “The Rockies have to proof they aren’t cheating” isn’t attacking.
"Don't be pushed by your problems. Be led by your dreams."
This times infinity
It really does feel as if the PR policy is that of appeasement, just as long as those we’re appeasing avoid dropping f-bombs.
They are clearly impugning the credibility of our entire franchise. And clearly trying to (and, apparently, pretty successfully) shift the burden on us to disprove their case. So I’d say their trolling has actually been quite successful in that regard.
ROCKTEMBER - Time for Some F***ing Guy to Shine
ROCKTEMBER - The month before we play Mora playoff games
ROCKTEMBER - The rest of you can settle for Festivus
by Mondogarage on Sep 27, 2010 10:31 AM MDT up reply actions
who the hell cares what McCovey Chronicles thinks of the Colorado Rockies?
by Andrew Martin on Sep 27, 2010 10:32 AM MDT up reply actions
Maybe nobody
but you sure seem to give great care (IMHO unreasonably so) to what MCC think of PR.
"Don't be pushed by your problems. Be led by your dreams."
I care what I think of PR
and I think we are being a bunch of overreactive Nancies, considering we have nothing to hide.
by Andrew Martin on Sep 27, 2010 10:42 AM MDT up reply actions
Being a Mod
maybe you should also care what your Serfdom thinks.
"Don't be pushed by your problems. Be led by your dreams."
my serfdom doesn't give a rat's ass what I think
so I’d rather be the jerk that everyone hates and continue to crusade toward a website of intelligent discourse and level heads.
And more dick jokes.
by Andrew Martin on Sep 27, 2010 11:15 AM MDT up reply actions
Yes, more dick jokes
So I was reading MCC, and…..
ROCKTEMBER - Time for Some F***ing Guy to Shine
ROCKTEMBER - The month before we play Mora playoff games
ROCKTEMBER - The rest of you can settle for Festivus
by Mondogarage on Sep 27, 2010 11:22 AM MDT up reply actions
Personally, I couldn’t care less what MCC thinks. I don’t necessarily take my childrens’ opinions seriously, either.
I do care that the Giants organization and their media hangers-on (Miller), as well as other teams and their hangers on are pulling this crap.
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 27, 2010 5:05 PM MDT up reply actions
because it's being backed by the MSM
if they just concocted it themselves and brought it over, we could happily say “lol check this guy out” but the fact that the actual organizations involved are taking this seriously, we pretty much have to address it and can’t take everything as a thrown gauntlet.
by Andrew Martin on Sep 27, 2010 10:32 AM MDT up reply actions
backed by the MSM
Repeated by the MSM doesn’t make it any more true, and doesn’t make it any more substantiated by non-existent facts.
I don’t care how many people try to yell it from the rooftops, there’s as much evidence of humidor cheating as there is of WMD in Iraq.
Now, obviously, we can’t stop other people from making completely baseless unfounded allegations without the slightest shred of evidence. That does not mean we have to accept them coming into our house and saying it to us, without telling them to prove it or gtfo.
We can’t require ESPN or Brian Sabean either come up with actual evidence or shut up, but we sure as hell require internet trolls to do so on PR. What they do on their sites is their business.
ROCKTEMBER - Time for Some F***ing Guy to Shine
ROCKTEMBER - The month before we play Mora playoff games
ROCKTEMBER - The rest of you can settle for Festivus
by Mondogarage on Sep 27, 2010 10:47 AM MDT up reply actions
it doesn't
but without the MSM, these websites would get pretty stale as far as news goes.
I’m not saying that their stance is any more correct because some blowhard with press creds said something absurd. I’m saying discussing this stance is valid because it’s something circulating MLB news.
by Andrew Martin on Sep 27, 2010 11:14 AM MDT up reply actions
Correlation does not equal causation
This cannot be stated enough. Given that the Rockies have never had an above average offensive team on the road, there’s pretty good evidence to suggest playing at Coors hurts Rockies’ ability to hit on the road. There are far too many variables within home/road splits to use it as any more than supplemental evidence
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Sep 26, 2010 9:30 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
I would bet there's legitimacy there
Parks in California have long been recognized to act differently in night and day as well.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Sep 26, 2010 9:37 PM MDT up reply actions
Makes sense...
When a warm LA or San Diego day gives way to night and the marine layer rolling in, it changes things quite a bit.
SF maybe not so much, since it usually doesn’t get all that warm there.
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 9:40 PM MDT up reply actions
Oh, bullcrap, many players in monster seasons have huge home/road splits
In Chipper Jones’ MVP season, his BA was 100 points higher at home. No one accused him of getting to hit dried out baseballs in his home games.
And the burden of proof is not on us to prove “to the contrary”. It’s your folks making the accusations, the burden of proof is squarely on them (and you) to prove your case. It is not our burden to prove a negative.
ROCKTEMBER - Time for Some F***ing Guy to Shine
ROCKTEMBER - The month before we play Mora playoff games
ROCKTEMBER - The rest of you can settle for Festivus
When you play 81 games in one park, you tend to become accustomed to how the game plays in that park. When pitches break so differently in other parks, it throws you for a loop, and even if there is time to prepare for other parks, is it worthwhile? Not always. The fact that Coors plays so much more differently in many ways can only amplify this effect—especially when it comes to how pitches move.
Think about it…when going to SF, is it practical to fog up the batting cages at Coors? Or to pipe in airplane noise when going to Citi Field? How about firing random tasers when preparing to go to Philly?
Not to mention, playing in Denver is physically demanding, moreso than in other places because of our altitude. Add in the stresses of traveling, and it can easily be seen that fatigue also contributes to poorer road performance.
I have no explanation for our success at Petco, though, unless its enormity reminds the team of home. I think that’s PFM.
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 9:34 PM MDT up reply actions
Also, sorry if I'm coming off like an ass here...it's certainly not my intent, but I can be my own worst enemy at times
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The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
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by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 9:35 PM MDT up reply actions
This is where I think most people get off track on this
The home road splits are do to several other factors besides the humidor. The humidor makes the ball closer to regulation but there is still thinner air(ball still travels farther). Huge outfield(more XBH bloop hits). Even with the humidor pitches don’t break as much FOR BOTH TEAMS. Humidor brought Colorado baseball closer to normal but not quite all the way there.
The reason Colorado hitters hit well at home is they use these advantages(which turn into disadvantages on the road). The Rockies have a really high fliy ball rate(see how that plays into big outfield ball travels farther). The Giants might be the team complaining the most because their staff has a high fly ball rate against. (Which plays well in SF not so great in COL).
I just wish people would look at all the factors before jumping straight to cheating
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by Neclord56 on Sep 26, 2010 9:35 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, the game will never play quite the same way in Denver as it does in other places
I also feel, like many people, this ultimately hurts the Rockies more than it helps them.
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 9:37 PM MDT up reply actions
do they say the same about Justin Upton or Wade Boggs?
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
Justin Upton
.163 Home/Road OPS split
Boggs: .153 Home/Road OPS split
neither of which are .400
by Andrew Martin on Sep 27, 2010 9:27 AM MDT up reply actions
There HAVE been outlier home/road spltis that large before
Let’s wait to see if CarGo is like that next season as well. It isn’t JUST Coors Field that has forced that split. His approach has been far worse on the road as eveidenced by K’s and BB’s, and that gap has improved slightly over the second half. If those normalize, which I’m sure they will, he’ll be a normal guy with a bit of an advantage at Coors
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Sep 27, 2010 10:00 AM MDT up reply actions
I'd wager there'll be a .100+ OPS split at the minimum, given Gonzalez' penchant for hitting and not walking
if that makes any sense
by Andrew Martin on Sep 27, 2010 10:15 AM MDT up reply actions
I don't doubt that
but wouldn’t that be expected for a player at Coors, even if there isn’t a reverse Coors effect?
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Sep 27, 2010 10:19 AM MDT up reply actions
I'd say so
Tulo has a career .130 dropoff
by Andrew Martin on Sep 27, 2010 10:25 AM MDT up reply actions
Why would we be accepting of false accusations that can seriously harm the reputation of our
entire organization?
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Garbanzo Quote "There is a lot of evidence pointing to the OMG CHEATERZ theory, and your only defense is "innocent until proven guilty" and the societal shift toward unproven ideals."
If you have not noticed, there is no evidence, just hearsay. Mostly journalists and some pitchers who blew a few games (or ones not meeting their expectations). You take these comments as evidence (“a lot of evidence pointing to the OMG Cheaterz theory”) and just fell for what you refuted! Evidence, thats a pretty weak definition.
by CORockFaithful on Sep 27, 2010 8:42 AM MDT up reply actions
Another Giants fan chiming in with my rambly two cents:
-It’s kind of sad that this issue has been blown out of proportion so much, and it’s no one’s fault but the MLB. They should have been overseeing this from the beginning – not because I think the Rockies were cheating – but the lack of oversight allowed the nagging suspicions to get a foot in the door and keep swirling around in the form of speculation, rather than accusation (Jon Miller saying what some people around the league were speculating, most recently peaking with Timmy verbalizing those suspicions in the heat of the game). I never really thought the Rockies were cheating – it would be a conspiracy of epic proportions that just logistically wouldn’t make sense. But now that MLB finally stepped in, I think all parties involved should be happy, since we shouldn’t hear about it anymore.
-Much respect to Gonzalez and Tulowitzki (although I draw the line somewhere, I can’t get on board with the hackneyed nickname and Tulo clap chant). Great players, would kill to have them play for the Giants – played out of their minds last night, the Gonzalez catch was absofuckinglutely insane. I don’t think anything much of the home/road splits – I think the pronounced splits this season are merely a product of both flukiness (not that I don’t think Gonzalez is good, but more that it’s a bit of random variation) and the increased altitude is a variable that comes into play with conditioning and how the ballpark plays. I’m more pissed at Billy Beane, who has developed a pesky habit of giving gifted outfielders to our division rivals (LOL Ethier for Milton Bradley). Good God am I glad we don’t have to pitch to them anymore this year.
-Glad to see that the players are joking around about it and not taking it too seriously as a lot of fans on both sides have been – the anecdote about TImmy and Tulo in the weight room was nice to read.
-Hope that you don’t think too much of Giants fans from this issue – there are bad apples in any fanbase, but I would tend to say that my views are reflective of most of us (at least those that I know of). Cheers.
On the subject of "overseeing"
and it’s no one’s fault but the MLB. They should have been overseeing this from the beginning
MLB has been overseeing this from the beginning. The problem isn’t the lack of oversight…the problem is various people associated with the Giants neglecting to shove their own feet in their collective mouths before spewing crap of which they have no bloody idea what they’re talking about. The very procedures established by MLB in allowing the humidor in the first place dictate video surveillance of the humidor.
What needs more oversight is the Giants organization. They need to develop the ability to READ and LEARN before spewing their ignorance upon the world. I wouldn’t expect anything different, though, from an organization that sponsored Barry Bonds’ model drug-free fitness regimen for 15 years, though.
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Mondo
I really understand your anger on this, but the Giants fans have been (mostly) polite thus far.
The Seldom Herd
I took Mondo's comments in this post as directed at the organization, not the fans
When taken in that context, he has an excellent point…especially if you include Jon Miller as part of that organization.
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 9:20 PM MDT up reply actions
I understand that as well
Just would really like to keep this from turning into a flamewar.
The Seldom Herd
Understood...I can see where the distinction can be blurred
Lord knows I tend to be guilty of it
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 9:21 PM MDT up reply actions
I understand, and yes, it was directed to the organization
MLB’s not going to “alleviate concerns” over the rantings of a few unhinged fans. Well, maybe Yankees fans, but they have a whole ’nother entitlement, and I digress…
No, this is entirely to attempt to publicly put to bed the whining that comes from Gints players, broadcasters, and front office staff, and has nothing to do with their fans.
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I'm tired
of having to read bitchfests here.
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Me too,
Though I would word it differently ; P
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Uh, yeah, about that...
by prettyinpurple on Sep 26, 2010 9:34 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Well since you are in charge
maybe you should politely ask Giant fans to refrain from a very sensative subject that will draw the ire of even the most civil Rockies fan.
"Don't be pushed by your problems. Be led by your dreams."
no?
We need to grow up and not whine every time someone calls our honor into question.
by Andrew Martin on Sep 27, 2010 9:27 AM MDT up reply actions
I agree with that point in life
however this a Rockies “fan” site no? This is about Rockies Fans and we should “defend with spirit”. Not lay down and say I guess you put your point together in a blah, blah, blah……. so I should bite my tounge.
Then again maybe I am missunderstanding the purpose….
"Don't be pushed by your problems. Be led by your dreams."
I'm not saying we should lay down
we should openly discuss it without introducing strawmen and hyperbole
by Andrew Martin on Sep 27, 2010 10:16 AM MDT up reply actions
Sure, we can have an open discussion about what evidence there is at all of it
1. the correct answer is “none”
2. We’ve invited them many times over to come forth with their evidence
3. None has been forthcoming at all.
4. Discussion concluded.
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by Mondogarage on Sep 27, 2010 10:19 AM MDT up reply actions
we have just as much evidence as they do
by Andrew Martin on Sep 27, 2010 10:20 AM MDT up reply actions
The burden of proof is not on us *at all*
We don’t have to present the evidence. Those making the allegations do. It really is that simple.
/pounds head against wall
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by Mondogarage on Sep 27, 2010 10:23 AM MDT up reply actions
Here's my point
I hate this topic. But Silver wrote an article about it, so it’s up to us to back it up.
by Andrew Martin on Sep 27, 2010 10:27 AM MDT up reply actions
fffff hit enter too soon
and furthermore, we should play nice. We’re getting a rep of being a bunch of incredible douchebags – even more than usual – because of our interactions with other websites.
by Andrew Martin on Sep 27, 2010 10:28 AM MDT up reply actions
I think one of the points of Silver's most excellent article is...
Don’t piss in my pocket and tell me it’s raining.
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by Mondogarage on Sep 27, 2010 10:36 AM MDT up reply actions
dunno how half my post was missing
I think one of the points of her article was that it’s time for the accusers to put up or shut up.
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by Mondogarage on Sep 27, 2010 10:48 AM MDT up reply actions
Oh, and vapors
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by Mondogarage on Sep 27, 2010 10:48 AM MDT up reply actions
And they need to grow up and not troll someone else's fan board
Really, this whole “we’re going to let MCC piss all over us on their board and impugn our credibility on our board, but you better be on your best behavior even when you go over there” is crap.
If they want to be jerks on their own board, sure, there’s nothing to be done about it. But why we continue to allow them to come here and even allege “there’s lots of evidence you need to disprove” is just stupid. There’s no advancing of reasonable discourse going on. Just a bunch of ignorant “um, there’s concern you’re cheating…and I don’t personally believe it, but, um, you better just disprove it anyway, and don’t forget the new cover sheets on the TPS reports while your at it”.
And it just seems like our mods would rather continue to entertain their wild ass conspiracy theories without a single shred of evidence than to, say, show a bit of backbone and treat their collective board the same way thev’ve treated ours.
Diplomacy only goes so far. And I understand the mods’ desire to “be the better person”, but the line’s been crossed long ago when “being the better person” really only just means letting yourself get taken advantage of.
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by Mondogarage on Sep 27, 2010 10:11 AM MDT up reply actions
I don't see anyone being jerks
I see them trying to address the situation as they see it.
All I can see from us is the following:
Accuser: The Rockies are cheating
Rockies fans: No we’re not
Accuser: Prove you’re not cheating
Rockies fans: HOW DARE YOU ACCUSE US OF CHEATING
by Andrew Martin on Sep 27, 2010 10:19 AM MDT up reply actions
Well, the Gints are cheating too
Torres and Ross cork their bats. Torres is on steroids, too…no one comes from no where at the age of 32.
They haven’t proven otherwise. So until they do, the Gints cheat. And we’re concerned.
Now, I’m pretty sure their mods wouldn’t be okay with me going over there and saying that. So, why are we okay with them coming over here and making the same unfounded accusations? That’s my point.
Our folks go over there and say those kinds of things, and the banhammer flies faster than you can say “Jon Miller’s a douche”.
And that is the crux of my problem. You want to impugn our franchise’s credbility, do it on your own board.
ROCKTEMBER - Time for Some F***ing Guy to Shine
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by Mondogarage on Sep 27, 2010 10:26 AM MDT up reply actions
Agreed
But our website doesn’t really work like that. I’d have loved a pile of “gtfo lmao check this guy out” but our website is more about chest-pounding chivalry, so we have to play nice.
by Andrew Martin on Sep 27, 2010 10:29 AM MDT up reply actions
You had me through the third line of the dialogue
But then you went off track. It’s more like this:
Accuser: The Rockies are cheating
Rockies fans: No we’re not
Accuser: Prove you’re not cheating
Rockies fans: Grow a brain, it’s the accuser’s job to prove we are
Accuser: The Rockies are cheating (perhaps with a dash of "I don’t personally believe that, so don’t attack me, but…)
It'll all be ok in the end. If it's not ok, it's not the end.
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by Rox the Casbah on Sep 27, 2010 10:32 AM MDT up reply actions
wait, so we can use ad hominem attacks?
by Andrew Martin on Sep 27, 2010 10:35 AM MDT up reply actions
apparently the nameless "accusers" think that we can
because they are setting up to defend themselves (or really, just deflect criticism) in how they set up their “civil” comments
It'll all be ok in the end. If it's not ok, it's not the end.
"I hope this game isn't horrible. Because if it is, we're going to have to wait until tomorrow to see the Rockies win." ~5-yo
"Sometimes you're the windshield, and sometimes you're the bug."~Mitch Williams
Chief Engineer of the Ubaldo Lovers Club, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
by Rox the Casbah on Sep 27, 2010 11:01 AM MDT up reply actions
so we could surprise them and not attack them in an ad hominem fashion?
by Andrew Martin on Sep 27, 2010 11:14 AM MDT up reply actions
pretty much the order of the day here, I don't see what you're getting at
It'll all be ok in the end. If it's not ok, it's not the end.
"I hope this game isn't horrible. Because if it is, we're going to have to wait until tomorrow to see the Rockies win." ~5-yo
"Sometimes you're the windshield, and sometimes you're the bug."~Mitch Williams
Chief Engineer of the Ubaldo Lovers Club, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
by Rox the Casbah on Sep 27, 2010 11:23 AM MDT up reply actions
that we're being a bunch of excitable nancies
and getting awfully defensive for something we have nothing to hide about.
by Andrew Martin on Sep 27, 2010 11:28 AM MDT up reply actions
I don't see it as defensive when one gets exasperated
at having to explain the same basic concept over and over (in this case, that the burden of proof is on the accuser). I mean, really – how many times does one have to explain it?
It'll all be ok in the end. If it's not ok, it's not the end.
"I hope this game isn't horrible. Because if it is, we're going to have to wait until tomorrow to see the Rockies win." ~5-yo
"Sometimes you're the windshield, and sometimes you're the bug."~Mitch Williams
Chief Engineer of the Ubaldo Lovers Club, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
by Rox the Casbah on Sep 27, 2010 11:44 AM MDT up reply actions
We can ignore their fan site
There’s no reason we should have to be the ones ignoring anything on our own.
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by Mondogarage on Sep 27, 2010 12:19 PM MDT up reply actions
Maybe we're just that old school, vapors and all
And we get righteously pissed when someone baselessly calls us liars, like people used to get righteously pissed when they were baselessly called liars.
What’s wrong with getting “excitable” when your integrity is baselessly called into question? Sounds more like a virtue than a vice to me.
I say the second we find out they are a fan of any team but ours we
jump their shit mercilessly
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
MLB had a video camera but they did not oversee how the balls were treated afterwards. Quote from the SF Chronicle story:
MLB doesn’t monitor the process in person, and Kahn said the umpires’ attendant is a Rockies employee.
…
“The integrity of the manager (Jim Tracy) and coaching staff would prevent that,” said Kahn, a former A’s employee and graduate of Oakland’s Bishop O’Dowd High School and Cal State Hayward.
That’s what I refer to, since most of the suspicions in question would deal with how the balls are treated after already out of the humidor, not what’s going on inside of it.
There's a camera on the balls in the dugout.
Not sure if you know this or not. But it’s there. All the time. Never moves.
I think he knows of the camera given his first five words
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Sep 26, 2010 9:21 PM MDT up reply actions
And because the umpires' attendant knows exactly when and why to sneak in non-humidor balls
And because there’s absolutely no way to count a) the number of balls used in the game, vis-a-vis the number of balls removed from the humidor for use in that game.
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well, there is a way to count the balls, but you’d have to be at the stadium and on your toes the whole time, watching. foul, 1, HR, 1, ball in dirt, tossed to away, 1, etc etc etc…
I’ve never heard of anyone counting them, and besides that, they probably take out enough balls for the game, then put back the remainder. It would be difficult, but not impossible to make a count
by giant4life83 on Sep 27, 2010 4:55 AM MDT up reply actions
And it would be equally impossible, then, given your position...
…to actually ensure that a single non-humidor ball is
a) snuck into the umpire’s ballbag;
b) handed to the umpire by the 14 year old ball boy (who, presumably, would have to be completely complicit in this scheme)
c) pulled out by the umpire and tossed to exactly the opposing team’s pitcher (or does an umpire not know what a “different” baseball even feels like), and
d) make sure there’s not a single non-humidor ball left in the umpire’s possession at the end of the game.
Bloody ludicrous, and not even plausible enough to require a response.
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I just said it would be possible to make a count, i didn’t bring the humidor into it at all. you had said that “counting the number of balls used” would be impossible, but really, it’s not. Just gotta know how to count.
I wasn’t bringing how any balls would be snuck into the game- though that was a nice attempt at diversion.
by giant4life83 on Sep 27, 2010 3:21 PM MDT up reply actions
I'm probably mistaken
Just seemed like he was talking about a camera or some such on the humidor proper. Which would be silly.
Almost as silly as having a hidden division in the bag of balls in the dugout for setting aside “juiced” balls, I suppose.
There is, in fact, a camera on the humidor proper
ROCKTEMBER - Time for Some F***ing Guy to Shine
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Yeah, I was under the impression it was on both humidor and dugout ball bag, but nowhere in between. Could be wrong though, feel free to correct me.
I believe it was on the bag and nothing else
but the logistics of working juiced balls in and being able to select them in front of the camera are incredibly remote
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Sep 26, 2010 9:40 PM MDT up reply actions
@ thebighead
Yes its great that MLB is paying more attention because it proves our innocence but I think there is no recourse. The press and the players that blew this out of proportion need to speak on the matter and the fact that there is no equality on the matter. What about the other teams in both leagues and why aren’t they also monitored?
That is a problem to me because it says this might only be an issue in rockies park where as other parks could do the exact same thing.
by nightninja13 on Sep 26, 2010 9:36 PM MDT up reply actions
This is why every park needs uniform storage (humidors) and uniform rules for ball handling
I can’t help but think the Rockies are being singled out for specious reasons here.
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 9:38 PM MDT up reply actions
Not a double standard
You just stated that we should be happy that this is being put to rest. I was pointing out that its still unfair in my perspective as far as we are the ONLY team this closely scrutinized.
by nightninja13 on Sep 26, 2010 9:40 PM MDT up reply actions
I don’t think it’s unfair if you’re the only team with a humidor.
With the talk of installing one at Chase Field, I suppose we may be seeing more of this in the near future.
Since it’s a bit beyond my paygrade, and I don’t want to pretend to speak on something I don’t know about – would using a humidor at a pitchers park such as Petco suppress offense? Put another way, would the ball at Petco behave the same as at Coors if a humidor was there? Or does the humidor at Coors simply bring the ball’s behavior closer to how it would behave at sea level?
The humidor at Coors
Brings the ball to regulation size and weight.
I suspect that in more humid climates, the ball is actually larger and heavier than regulation, just as it was smaller and lighter in drier climates like Colorado and Arizona.
No it just makes them regulation size, and weight
In other city’s it might increase offense and in others decrease. for instance in petco they might have slightly heavier balls because of humidity hence increased offense.
The fact is the rockies are the only team that can prove their balls are regulation.
by nightninja13 on Sep 26, 2010 9:47 PM MDT up reply actions
The fact is the rockies are the only team that can prove their balls are regulation.
This. This. This.
A humidor in Petco would probably raise offense.
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The humidor can only affect the ball itself
Denver’s elevation, and thus air density, remains constant and still affects the flight of the ball. In effect, it cuts the offensive effects of Coors, perhaps by half. If a humidor were at Petco, it likely wouldn’t change TOO much, as the balls are probably fairly close to 70 degrees as 50% humidity much of the time
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Sep 26, 2010 9:47 PM MDT up reply actions
This is why Arizona wants a humidor
Their air is even drier than Denver’s, so I’d be willing to bet they’ve been playing with golf balls for the last 12 years, much like happened at Coors in its first seven years.
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 9:50 PM MDT up reply actions
Precisely
The dome is closed much of the time in the summer, but it isn’t as if they are humidifying internal stadium air
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Sep 26, 2010 9:52 PM MDT up reply actions
I'd think the A/C would make the issue even worse, if anything
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 9:53 PM MDT up reply actions
Very true, given the drying effect
On the other hand, it’s so dry there that perhaps A/C doesn’t actually have a drying effect there.
ROCKTEMBER - Time for Some F***ing Guy to Shine
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I think it can...I mean, hell, swamp coolers are very effective there
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 9:57 PM MDT up reply actions
Well, those would humidify, not dehumidify, right?
I’m thinking you can very easily add humidity there, but that a normal room A/C there wouldn’t dry out a space any more than it already is dry. Maybe I’m wrong, I suck at science.
ROCKTEMBER - Time for Some F***ing Guy to Shine
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ROCKTEMBER - The rest of you can settle for Festivus
Swamp coolers dehumidify air and return it to the house
…because evaporation is a cooling process. True A/C also has this same effect even if the heat transfer mechanism is different, since cooling the air will inevitably squeeze moisture out of it.
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 10:01 PM MDT up reply actions
Cool, thanks for edumacating me
I’ve never really known what they do, other than make stuff cool.
ROCKTEMBER - Time for Some F***ing Guy to Shine
ROCKTEMBER - The month before we play Mora playoff games
ROCKTEMBER - The rest of you can settle for Festivus
by Mondogarage on Sep 26, 2010 10:03 PM MDT up reply actions
You're welcome
You can see this effect in the morning when grass gets dew (and the air may be foggy)…it’s the same mechanism (air cools, thus gets more dense and pushes water out).
Okay, not so much here in CO, but in wetter places…
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 10:05 PM MDT up reply actions
I think you're only going to squeeze moisture out of the air if you cool it to its dew point and start condensing water.
And that would get to the point of 100% humidity. Which feels really yucky. Which would be why I’m happy to live in Colorado, even if the baseballs turn into golf balls.
"Are they called the Rockies because they rock?" - 7 y.o.
by glaucophane on Sep 26, 2010 10:06 PM MDT up reply actions
Some does escape, but yeah, it's not going to be all foggy in ones house running A/C
Maybe “push” is a better word than “squeeze”.
What’s really fun is living in a humid place when it’s so humid that running your A/C causes condensation on your windows. Yeah…Northern Virginia sucks.
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 10:09 PM MDT up reply actions
Northwest Florida
Walking outside in the summer at about 10pm, and it still feels like walking into a wet towel. Blech.
Yuck
Every time I go back east for something (usually to visit family), I immediately notice the humidity as soon as I step off the plane. It’s like a ton of bricks.
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 10:12 PM MDT up reply actions
I compare it to trying to inhale yogurt...
It'll all be ok in the end. If it's not ok, it's not the end.
"I hope this game isn't horrible. Because if it is, we're going to have to wait until tomorrow to see the Rockies win." ~5-yo
"Sometimes you're the windshield, and sometimes you're the bug."~Mitch Williams
Chief Engineer of the Ubaldo Lovers Club, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
by Rox the Casbah on Sep 26, 2010 10:15 PM MDT up reply actions
There's a lot to be said for being able to hydrate just by breathing
…
…
…okay, no there isn’t
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 10:16 PM MDT up reply actions
You've found it!
The real reason why MCC people are the way they are: They’re annoyed that they’re not Coloradans!
Well, yeah, many folks outside of Colorado are annoyed by that
And a majority of them are probably in California.
ROCKTEMBER - Time for Some F***ing Guy to Shine
ROCKTEMBER - The month before we play Mora playoff games
ROCKTEMBER - The rest of you can settle for Festivus
by Mondogarage on Sep 26, 2010 10:12 PM MDT up reply actions
Well, many Californians are moving here.
Not that I am complaining about transplants (you know, being one and all), but it’s interesting….
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 10:13 PM MDT up reply actions
I will complain about them for you
Just the ones who refuse to assimilate, to our Rocky Mountain Ways, though.
I'm an honorary CO native now
because I gave birth to one. Maria said so. ;-)
It'll all be ok in the end. If it's not ok, it's not the end.
"I hope this game isn't horrible. Because if it is, we're going to have to wait until tomorrow to see the Rockies win." ~5-yo
"Sometimes you're the windshield, and sometimes you're the bug."~Mitch Williams
Chief Engineer of the Ubaldo Lovers Club, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
by Rox the Casbah on Sep 26, 2010 10:16 PM MDT up reply actions
Excellent. I gave birth to a CO native too.
"Are they called the Rockies because they rock?" - 7 y.o.
Woohoo! Honorary CO natives FTW! :-D
It'll all be ok in the end. If it's not ok, it's not the end.
"I hope this game isn't horrible. Because if it is, we're going to have to wait until tomorrow to see the Rockies win." ~5-yo
"Sometimes you're the windshield, and sometimes you're the bug."~Mitch Williams
Chief Engineer of the Ubaldo Lovers Club, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
by Rox the Casbah on Sep 27, 2010 10:34 AM MDT up reply actions
My feeling on assimilation is this:
If where I used to live was so great, I wouldn’t be here, now would I? :)
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 10:16 PM MDT up reply actions
Exactamundo
And the stories aren’t nearly as legendary of Coloradoans moving to California….
ROCKTEMBER - Time for Some F***ing Guy to Shine
ROCKTEMBER - The month before we play Mora playoff games
ROCKTEMBER - The rest of you can settle for Festivus
by Mondogarage on Sep 26, 2010 10:18 PM MDT up reply actions
...or Texas. Lots of Texans here, too, in my experience
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 10:19 PM MDT up reply actions
Well, if I had to live under Rick Perry's "leadership"
I’d gtfo out of Texas, too.
I did actually grow up there, but haven’t lived there since 1985, and lived in many places before settling here…
ROCKTEMBER - Time for Some F***ing Guy to Shine
ROCKTEMBER - The month before we play Mora playoff games
ROCKTEMBER - The rest of you can settle for Festivus
by Mondogarage on Sep 26, 2010 10:21 PM MDT up reply actions
Aren't you the guy who loves Five Guys?
We invented Chipotle and Quizno’s, thank you very much. You can keep your crazy east-coast food over there.
I do love Five Guys
I also love Chipotle and Quiznos (and Qdoba). I’m inclusive.
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 10:23 PM MDT up reply actions
Never heard of it
I should probably hang my head in shame. I’m boring.
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 10:25 PM MDT up reply actions
Try it its like qdoba and chipotle
but better in some regards :)
by nightninja13 on Sep 26, 2010 10:29 PM MDT up reply actions
Ooh...that DOES sound good
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 10:31 PM MDT up reply actions
does love Five Guys
But then, we moved here directly from where it originated. Best burger anywhere.
You also invented Boston Market, don’t forget.
ROCKTEMBER - Time for Some F***ing Guy to Shine
ROCKTEMBER - The month before we play Mora playoff games
ROCKTEMBER - The rest of you can settle for Festivus
by Mondogarage on Sep 26, 2010 10:23 PM MDT up reply actions
...and yeah, we also moved here directly from where it originated
Though I think you already knew this.
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 10:25 PM MDT up reply actions
yeah, didn't we have a convo about that at some point?
mmmmmm, five guys…
It'll all be ok in the end. If it's not ok, it's not the end.
"I hope this game isn't horrible. Because if it is, we're going to have to wait until tomorrow to see the Rockies win." ~5-yo
"Sometimes you're the windshield, and sometimes you're the bug."~Mitch Williams
Chief Engineer of the Ubaldo Lovers Club, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
by Rox the Casbah on Sep 26, 2010 10:26 PM MDT up reply actions
But damn I could go for some Chipotle right now
Of course, I also still have that Double Down craving, so you may need to take me with even more of a grain of salt than you normally do.
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 10:28 PM MDT up reply actions
yup yup yup
I may be wrong, but I think you said Alexandria…
ROCKTEMBER - Time for Some F***ing Guy to Shine
ROCKTEMBER - The month before we play Mora playoff games
ROCKTEMBER - The rest of you can settle for Festivus
Yep, lived there for a while
Dale City, too
It'll all be ok in the end. If it's not ok, it's not the end.
"I hope this game isn't horrible. Because if it is, we're going to have to wait until tomorrow to see the Rockies win." ~5-yo
"Sometimes you're the windshield, and sometimes you're the bug."~Mitch Williams
Chief Engineer of the Ubaldo Lovers Club, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
by Rox the Casbah on Sep 27, 2010 10:34 AM MDT up reply actions
Boston Market's good
I’m just not aware of a location that’s stayed in the same place for more than about 6 months. They do appear and disappear rather frequently.
The one at Iliff and Blackhawk in Aurora has been there since we moved here 3.5 years ago
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 10:30 PM MDT up reply actions
(and probably longer, since it was there the first time I rolled into town)
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 10:30 PM MDT up reply actions
Not that frequently IME
but yeah, seems to have less longevity than others in some places. Darn shame, too – I like them. You can at least pretend to get real food… and the one near us in VA had a drive-thru!
It'll all be ok in the end. If it's not ok, it's not the end.
"I hope this game isn't horrible. Because if it is, we're going to have to wait until tomorrow to see the Rockies win." ~5-yo
"Sometimes you're the windshield, and sometimes you're the bug."~Mitch Williams
Chief Engineer of the Ubaldo Lovers Club, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
by Rox the Casbah on Sep 26, 2010 10:30 PM MDT up reply actions
They're caught between McD, etc. on the low end
and Chipotle, etc. on the higher end, and there’s nothing really exotic or unique about it to distinguish.
I do find it amusing that Boston Market used to be owned by McDonald’s, though…as did Chipotle.
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 10:33 PM MDT up reply actions
Hey, can't we all just get along?
And get fat… cause there’s a lot of awesome food here, no matter where it came from.
It'll all be ok in the end. If it's not ok, it's not the end.
"I hope this game isn't horrible. Because if it is, we're going to have to wait until tomorrow to see the Rockies win." ~5-yo
"Sometimes you're the windshield, and sometimes you're the bug."~Mitch Williams
Chief Engineer of the Ubaldo Lovers Club, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
by Rox the Casbah on Sep 26, 2010 10:26 PM MDT up reply actions
And Beer
Mustn’t forget the beer.
Had a good IPA from Fort Collins Brewing tonight with my world-famous wings. I think the Odell’s IPA is just a step better, though, as IPAs go.
/drools
Never had Fort Collins Brewing, but I do like Odell’s IPA (and many of their other brews).
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 10:29 PM MDT up reply actions
90 Shilling is the end-all
Though I’m a little miffed they took “Colorado Ale” off of the labeling for it.
Levity is good for what it is, but I think there are better Ambers out there.
I seriously have reset my IPA baseline with Odell’s. The hoppiness is significantly more floral than bitter. Most all of the others are mostly bitter.
I picked up the FCB pack to add to my wall o’ micro-6-pack holders behind my dart board in the garage. It’s almost full.
Damn, I love 90 Shilling
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 10:34 PM MDT up reply actions
see, i'm not an IPA girl
you can have all of that, and I’ll have a nice stout or wheat beer… maybe a brown ale… preferably something I can’t see through. love to try the wings though.
It'll all be ok in the end. If it's not ok, it's not the end.
"I hope this game isn't horrible. Because if it is, we're going to have to wait until tomorrow to see the Rockies win." ~5-yo
"Sometimes you're the windshield, and sometimes you're the bug."~Mitch Williams
Chief Engineer of the Ubaldo Lovers Club, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
by Rox the Casbah on Sep 26, 2010 10:33 PM MDT up reply actions
New Belgium (in Ft Collins) has several things in the malty category
not a overly-hopped beer fan myself. Try the 1554 or the Abbey. Their 2 Below is excellent as well (it’s their winter seasonal, o it should be around in a couple of months).
"The game of baseball is made up of many little things. If we do all the little things right, then we'll never have a big thing to worry about" -- Cal Ripken, Sr.
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #3
by RoarFrom112 on Sep 26, 2010 10:37 PM MDT up reply actions
Oh, New Belgium brews are favorites in our house
1554 being one of the biggest favorites, and yes, Abbey is wonderful, too.
I’m not quite as sold on the 2 Below, but it’s pretty tasty as well.
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 10:39 PM MDT up reply actions
Supposedly the 2 Below Cellars well
but I’ve never managed to have one survive past April or so, let alone a whole year…..
"The game of baseball is made up of many little things. If we do all the little things right, then we'll never have a big thing to worry about" -- Cal Ripken, Sr.
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #3
by RoarFrom112 on Sep 26, 2010 10:44 PM MDT up reply actions
Beer never lasts that long in my house
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 10:45 PM MDT up reply actions
Well, yeah
Beer was meant to be consumed…as was wine.
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 10:46 PM MDT up reply actions
love, love, love me some 1554
not sure if I’ve tried the Abbey or not… :-\
It'll all be ok in the end. If it's not ok, it's not the end.
"I hope this game isn't horrible. Because if it is, we're going to have to wait until tomorrow to see the Rockies win." ~5-yo
"Sometimes you're the windshield, and sometimes you're the bug."~Mitch Williams
Chief Engineer of the Ubaldo Lovers Club, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
by Rox the Casbah on Sep 26, 2010 10:40 PM MDT up reply actions
You have. It's been a while, though
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 10:41 PM MDT up reply actions
was it pre-1yo?
sad to say I have no memory… :-(
It'll all be ok in the end. If it's not ok, it's not the end.
"I hope this game isn't horrible. Because if it is, we're going to have to wait until tomorrow to see the Rockies win." ~5-yo
"Sometimes you're the windshield, and sometimes you're the bug."~Mitch Williams
Chief Engineer of the Ubaldo Lovers Club, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
by Rox the Casbah on Sep 26, 2010 10:42 PM MDT up reply actions
Yes, it was
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 10:43 PM MDT up reply actions
Funny story
I had a Fat Tire at a steakhouse in town, and when the server came back and I mentioned I wanted another, he kind of danced around the fact that there was a secret beer in the back from NB that I might like. “Yes, I’m familiar with 1554. And yes, I would love one.”
2 Below is some good stuff, too.
Do they still offer Biere de Mars every now and then? I had it years ago, and it was tasty.
ROFL! Why was it a secret?
It'll all be ok in the end. If it's not ok, it's not the end.
"I hope this game isn't horrible. Because if it is, we're going to have to wait until tomorrow to see the Rockies win." ~5-yo
"Sometimes you're the windshield, and sometimes you're the bug."~Mitch Williams
Chief Engineer of the Ubaldo Lovers Club, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
by Rox the Casbah on Sep 26, 2010 10:42 PM MDT up reply actions
Because they didn't keep the 1554 in their humidor
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 10:42 PM MDT up reply actions
There's my topical humor
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 10:45 PM MDT up reply actions
It just wasn't on the menu
I felt pretty awesome for cracking that code just by enjoying my Fat Tire.
There were as many as 5,000 a month in the mid 90s
All from Cali, all coming to the Denver area. Biggest damn housing explosion this state’s ever seen, outside of the gold rush.
And I guess that was more of a tent explosion.
ROCKTEMBER - Time for Some F***ing Guy to Shine
ROCKTEMBER - The month before we play Mora playoff games
ROCKTEMBER - The rest of you can settle for Festivus
by Mondogarage on Sep 26, 2010 10:17 PM MDT up reply actions
I hate it when my tent explodes
Reminds me that I shouldn’t bring so much in the way of baked beans on camping trips.
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 10:20 PM MDT up reply actions
/pops Blazing Saddles into the DVR
and on that note, I’mma outta here!
ROCKTEMBER - Time for Some F***ing Guy to Shine
ROCKTEMBER - The month before we play Mora playoff games
ROCKTEMBER - The rest of you can settle for Festivus
by Mondogarage on Sep 26, 2010 10:22 PM MDT up reply actions
Huh?
Swamp cooler owner here.
Swamp coolers don’t dehumidify air. They ADD moisture to the air as they cool it. And nothing gets “returned” to the house. When a swamp cooler is in use, you have to open windows or provide other ventilation to the outside (such as “Updux”) so that the cooled air from OUTSIDE can flow through the house. Otherwise, the house becomes stuffy very quickly… and somewhat pressurized.
With the evap system on, we get a complete turnover of freshly cooled outside air into our house every few minutes.
Thanks for a great year, Rockies. Now, please don't let the Dodgers catch you.
by trekinaz on Sep 27, 2010 1:02 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
You know what's strange?
According to Baseball Reference’s park factors, Chase is actually a PITCHER’s park this season. Strange, since its factor was 112 last year.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Sep 26, 2010 9:55 PM MDT up reply actions
Doesn't it give up more HR than Coors now (and hasn't it done so for a while?)
But yeah, that IS strange.
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 9:57 PM MDT up reply actions
According to Statcorner, the HR park factors are about even for LHB
15% more at Coors for RHB
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Sep 26, 2010 10:00 PM MDT up reply actions
Hmm...interesting
Thanks for that
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 10:02 PM MDT up reply actions
Cargo?
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Sep 27, 2010 6:56 AM MDT up reply actions
I'm saying Tulo can't account for the difference in HR factors
because Cargo’s HR factor at home would outweigh it
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Sep 27, 2010 10:01 AM MDT up reply actions
Is that affected by the general quality of pitching in the NL West?
Does it seem more like a pitcher’s park because Timmy/Cain/Zito/Sanchez/Latos/the entire SD bullpen/Ubaldo/etc pitch there so much?
"Are they called the Rockies because they rock?" - 7 y.o.
It shouldn't
Also, all of those plus Webb and Haren contributed to the high offensive factor in previous years
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Sep 26, 2010 10:01 PM MDT up reply actions
thanks to the home team setting the strikeout record?
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
They K on the road though too, right?
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Sep 27, 2010 10:02 AM MDT up reply actions
but fifty percent of the batters at chase field
are from the team setting the team K record which would likely depress the park factor
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
The humidor simply brings the ball's behavior closer to how it would behave at sea level
The balls aren’t dry and shriveled any more—they’re actually spec now, so they behave in a more expected manner. The humidor only compensates for part of Denver’s quirks, though. It can help overcome the fact that Denver is very dry, but it can’t do anything about the density of the atmosphere here, so the ball will never behave exactly the same way here as it does elsewhere.
Because of the density difference, a pitch will still break differently at Petco than at Coors, it will still lose more velocity, and a batted ball at Petco will still encounter more air resistance.
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 9:48 PM MDT up reply actions
And breaking balls probably break *more* at Petco and AT&T
Than they do in places like St Louis or Kansas City.
ROCKTEMBER - Time for Some F***ing Guy to Shine
ROCKTEMBER - The month before we play Mora playoff games
ROCKTEMBER - The rest of you can settle for Festivus
I wouldn't doubt it
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 9:50 PM MDT up reply actions
Temperature plays a factor, too
So when it gets cold early in SF, the ball breaks even more than in hotter San Diego or LA.
Very true, given that temperature has a direct effect on density
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 9:52 PM MDT up reply actions
Hence their pitchers may not really be *that* good....
ROCKTEMBER - Time for Some F***ing Guy to Shine
ROCKTEMBER - The month before we play Mora playoff games
ROCKTEMBER - The rest of you can settle for Festivus
Sounds like what I've been saying about the Padres all year
The Giants’ rotation is definitely legit, though
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 9:53 PM MDT up reply actions
Well, some of it is...
Cain’s a beast. Timmeh…eh, he’s all right, lol. Remember when Bumgarner was down 4-5 mph earlier this year? Not sure which is the actual “legit” Bumgarner yet.
ROCKTEMBER - Time for Some F***ing Guy to Shine
ROCKTEMBER - The month before we play Mora playoff games
ROCKTEMBER - The rest of you can settle for Festivus
Timmeh is legit
they don’t hand out consecutive SY awards for not being good. plus he has above average stats this year as well.
by nightninja13 on Sep 26, 2010 9:58 PM MDT up reply actions
I was being a bit faceitious
That said, Timmeh went through a decidedly non-Timmeh stretch this season. But it’s clear now that it was just a slump.
Sanchez is quite good, but can be either really good or on rarer occasion, pretty darn less than good.
ROCKTEMBER - Time for Some F***ing Guy to Shine
ROCKTEMBER - The month before we play Mora playoff games
ROCKTEMBER - The rest of you can settle for Festivus
Timmeh may have stepped in it this week, but rumors of his demise are greatly exaggerated
Sanchez is pretty good, too. I agree that the jury’s out on Bumgarner, though.
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 9:58 PM MDT up reply actions
Bumgarner has gotten by with a bit of luck (my eyes have supported the numbers, he seems to give up a good amount of hard line drives). But we have high hopes for him.
The missing velocity came from a mechanical issue, he talked about something he and Righetti changed and he immediately gained 3-4 mph in his next start, which is good to see since it’s what he was throwing in the minors. Amazing what such small adjustments will do for a pitcher.
Sanchez has improved due to incorporating a splitfinger, he never threw it too often due to lack of control. I think he’s improved on that front, and throwing it in fastball counts has elevated his game a bit, in addition to throwing more first pitch strikes.
1-5 I’d take our rotation, but the Phillies rotation scares me to no end due to the top 3. It will be interesting to see what the coaching staff decides to do if we get into the playoffs with regards to Zito (my guess: he’ll stay due to experience) and Bumgarner (my guess: bullpen due to the high innings accumulated).
...to say nothing of Phoenix and Atlanta (the 2nd and 3rd highest MLB cities)
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 9:51 PM MDT up reply actions
crazy side note on this
if all thirty teams had dome air regulated stadiums(not sure if this is even possible). With the exact same ballpark dimensions. (even for all fields). basically making it like basketball where everything is the same every time. Do you think runs scored (for all of MLB) would go up or down?
MY FACEBOOK STATUS:WAITING AROUND THE CORNER FOR FRANKLIN MORALES
No clue it might just level out a little more.
Then again maybe not. There could be profound differences but I am guessing it would be a negligible difference that would only really effect a few places.
by nightninja13 on Sep 26, 2010 9:54 PM MDT up reply actions
There woudl be several effects
If they were truly air regulated, they’d probably have to be dome-covered 24/7. Which could lead to the return of more turf, and more turf style hits. BA’s could go up. Power…I dunno. The sum effect would probably be a slight increase in runs.
As for equalizing the dimensions, it would depend on what those universal dimensions would be.
ROCKTEMBER - Time for Some F***ing Guy to Shine
ROCKTEMBER - The month before we play Mora playoff games
ROCKTEMBER - The rest of you can settle for Festivus
Would like to say
that I appreciate the Giants fans who have taken the time to come over here and politely engage with us. I hope everyone can do the same in return.
The Seldom Herd
With regard to "out of line" comments (and certainly without repeating them here)
I will simply say, that I was illustrating the absurdity of making accusations in the absence of any actual evidence to support them.
I didn’t truly expect those who took insult to grasp the nuance.
ROCKTEMBER - Time for Some F***ing Guy to Shine
ROCKTEMBER - The month before we play Mora playoff games
ROCKTEMBER - The rest of you can settle for Festivus
Ok, just now coming in to catch up...
but Amen, Silver! Excellent writing as always, and content-wise, you knocked it out of the park. As it were. LOLCOORZ. ;-)
It'll all be ok in the end. If it's not ok, it's not the end.
"I hope this game isn't horrible. Because if it is, we're going to have to wait until tomorrow to see the Rockies win." ~5-yo
"Sometimes you're the windshield, and sometimes you're the bug."~Mitch Williams
Chief Engineer of the Ubaldo Lovers Club, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
Thanks...
I appear to have unleashed quite a monster here. Which was kind of what I expected, TBH.
The Seldom Herd
Well, it's certainly a controversial subject that has inflamed passions for a while now
I must admit, it’s taken everything I have to be somewhat good tonight. :)
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 10:00 PM MDT up reply actions
I appreciate it
Let’s not sink to Gaslamp level.
The Seldom Herd
by Silverblood on Sep 26, 2010 10:01 PM MDT up reply actions
As long as more MCCers don't come over saying there's "a lot of evidence"
or that “you just have to learn to accept it”, then I don’t think that’s a concern.
ROCKTEMBER - Time for Some F***ing Guy to Shine
ROCKTEMBER - The month before we play Mora playoff games
ROCKTEMBER - The rest of you can settle for Festivus
by Mondogarage on Sep 26, 2010 10:02 PM MDT up reply actions
They may be outrageously wrong
But I’m unfortunately going to be a stick in the mud and insist that we be polite about telling them that.
The Seldom Herd
by Silverblood on Sep 26, 2010 10:03 PM MDT up reply actions
Doing your job?
THAT’S UNPOSSIBLE.
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 10:05 PM MDT up reply actions
And I'll continue to tell them to put up or shut up
I’d be happy to do so far more diplomatically when they turn down their cocktail of ignorance mixed with arrogance. They can save their conspiracy theories for their own board.
ROCKTEMBER - Time for Some F***ing Guy to Shine
ROCKTEMBER - The month before we play Mora playoff games
ROCKTEMBER - The rest of you can settle for Festivus
by Mondogarage on Sep 26, 2010 10:05 PM MDT up reply actions
But then, as I've said before, probably a *really* good idea I'm not a mod here
/pretty sure the mods here would agree with that sentiment
ROCKTEMBER - Time for Some F***ing Guy to Shine
ROCKTEMBER - The month before we play Mora playoff games
ROCKTEMBER - The rest of you can settle for Festivus
by Mondogarage on Sep 26, 2010 10:08 PM MDT up reply actions
I totally read that as
“Cocktail party ignorance mixed with arrogance.” And I can definitely imagine certain cocktail parties being just so populated.
Cocktail party ignorance
/Peter Sellers in The Party FTW!
Though that would probably be a complete lack of self-awareness more than ignorance, I guess…
ROCKTEMBER - Time for Some F***ing Guy to Shine
ROCKTEMBER - The month before we play Mora playoff games
ROCKTEMBER - The rest of you can settle for Festivus
by Mondogarage on Sep 26, 2010 10:10 PM MDT up reply actions
Very very weird
I first came across it because of a surf-instro tribute album of Henry Mancini covers, and liked the song enough to catch the movie on cable. Very strange. Very Sellers.
ROCKTEMBER - Time for Some F***ing Guy to Shine
ROCKTEMBER - The month before we play Mora playoff games
ROCKTEMBER - The rest of you can settle for Festivus
by Mondogarage on Sep 26, 2010 10:13 PM MDT up reply actions
Yeah very sellers
It isn’t the strangest movie I have ever seen I will reserve that for “funky forest”(great movie to watch with friends and drink a few beers just to laugh at how messed up weird the japanese are).
by nightninja13 on Sep 26, 2010 10:18 PM MDT up reply actions
I think they're wrong as much as you do
I just ask that you keep it under control.
The Seldom Herd
by Silverblood on Sep 26, 2010 10:09 PM MDT up reply actions
Goodness gracious...I can't get a backhoe big enough to dig the hole THAT would require
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 10:03 PM MDT up reply actions
Yeah, well, when it comes to being armed with facts
The accusers were trying to bring a butterknife to a gunfight
ROCKTEMBER - Time for Some F***ing Guy to Shine
ROCKTEMBER - The month before we play Mora playoff games
ROCKTEMBER - The rest of you can settle for Festivus
by Mondogarage on Sep 26, 2010 10:00 PM MDT up reply actions
/Walked in the room late
/now understands the pile of butter knives next to the dead bodies.
MY FACEBOOK STATUS:WAITING AROUND THE CORNER FOR FRANKLIN MORALES
HaHa I think we know what silver is packing here
That is a canon of a post
by nightninja13 on Sep 26, 2010 10:02 PM MDT up reply actions
Evidence
Before the humidor was put in, balls were sampled which were stored at Coors in the usual low humidity environment, which were something like half an ounce lighter and measurably smaller in diameter than MLB regulation size. Given this, it would be extremely easy to have a Giants pitcher toss a ball he suspects is juiced back to the ump and have the catcher say “save that one and FedEx it to the league offices”. It’s measured, and lo and behold, is smaller and lighter than it should be. You have the equivalent of Sammy Sosa’s bat cork lying there all over the field.
Or they could do what the Rockies did with the Phillies and have their TV crew capture the ball boy getting a baseball from somewhere other than the official ball bag, or slipping one in his pocket. It would be so easy to get evidence that would humiliate the Rockies organization thoroughly.
And yet…. somehow this hasn’t happened. Somehow despite 9 games a year at Coors Field, the Giants haven’t thought of what some blog commenter can think of in 5 minutes. Why could this be? Maybe because there’s no evidence to capture.
I grew up listening to Jon Miller call baseball games on WFBR in Baltimore, sneaking a radio under my pillow to listen to the 10PM west coast games. I learned much of the game listening to his descriptions of it. It saddens me greatly that he made himself a part of this. It also saddens me that the front office of an MLB organization would get involved in this in any way other than to apologize to the Rockies for insinuating anything was amiss or following one of the strategies above to bring out the truth.
"The game of baseball is made up of many little things. If we do all the little things right, then we'll never have a big thing to worry about" -- Cal Ripken, Sr.
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #3
This reminded me
My children will never have a TV in their room, but if they want a radio, I’ll look the other way.
This is a good plan
and teaching them to keep a scorecard is another.
"The game of baseball is made up of many little things. If we do all the little things right, then we'll never have a big thing to worry about" -- Cal Ripken, Sr.
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #3
by RoarFrom112 on Sep 26, 2010 10:20 PM MDT up reply actions
Thou shall keep a scorecard with thine person at all times
Thou shall not mistake 6 with third base as shortstop came later.
I need to write this in stone with over 100 little baseball should and should nots :)
by nightninja13 on Sep 26, 2010 10:23 PM MDT up reply actions
On the subject of that organization...
…reeks a bit of the front office prepping excuses in advance if they missed out on the playoffs by 1 or 2 games. You know, if the Rockies hadn’t cheated us out of 1 or 2 victories, we’d be there. Something like that. Probably unrealistic. But we do know the Giants are the official source of the complaint.
ROCKTEMBER - Time for Some F***ing Guy to Shine
ROCKTEMBER - The month before we play Mora playoff games
ROCKTEMBER - The rest of you can settle for Festivus
by Mondogarage on Sep 26, 2010 10:16 PM MDT up reply actions
I have a hard time believing the weight and size of the ball wouldn't change
en route from the umpire to the league office. If they marginally change based on temperature and humidity, it likely would over the few days before being sent off. You’d need an immediate test at Coors
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Sep 27, 2010 6:58 AM MDT up reply actions
Okay changing the subject
Funny statistic: The fact that this post referenced the Illuminati led it to being re-Twittered in a lot of weird places.
The Seldom Herd
Retweeted
"No Mission Too Difficult, No Sacrifice Too Great—Duty First" - 1st Infantry Division Motto
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
SB Nation Denver - The regional hub for Denver sports!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.
what the heck is a twitter
The Seldom Herd
by Silverblood on Sep 26, 2010 10:15 PM MDT up reply actions
Hey, hey,
I only mention this because it’s a big deal with our regional sites. Twitter should always be capitalized, but tweet or retweet should not be.
"No Mission Too Difficult, No Sacrifice Too Great—Duty First" - 1st Infantry Division Motto
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
SB Nation Denver - The regional hub for Denver sports!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.
somebody has too much time on their hands
The Seldom Herd
by Silverblood on Sep 26, 2010 10:18 PM MDT up reply actions
I get paid to do this.
"No Mission Too Difficult, No Sacrifice Too Great—Duty First" - 1st Infantry Division Motto
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
SB Nation Denver - The regional hub for Denver sports!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.
Well, Styx did
have “Too Much Time On My Hands”, that is….
ROCKTEMBER - Time for Some F***ing Guy to Shine
ROCKTEMBER - The month before we play Mora playoff games
ROCKTEMBER - The rest of you can settle for Festivus
by Mondogarage on Sep 26, 2010 10:22 PM MDT up reply actions
I have to say this now...
every time I hear the word “twitter”. Gotta love the Toddfather.
by PurpleJersey on Sep 27, 2010 7:19 AM MDT up reply actions
HaHaHa Yes!
People need to learn about the real issues and not some organization dan brown made famous
by nightninja13 on Sep 26, 2010 10:14 PM MDT up reply actions
BASEBALL IS LIFE
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 10:15 PM MDT up reply actions
I re-tweeted it, and I'm weird, but that's probably not what you meant
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 10:15 PM MDT up reply actions
Cool Story Bro
"Skillet, we just spent $64,000 in that bar. So we're gonna have to get jobs to cover up the fact that we rob banks" -Mouse Fitzgerald
I propose a solution.
The Rockies fans select their champion, the Giants theirs.We’ll all meet in Vegas. Each champion will select a weapon, then a duel will take place.
The loser of the duel is executed on camera after confessing that either a.) The Rockies, yes, were in fact cheating or b.) The Giants and their fans are toolboxes for furthering this nonsense to this extent. The filmed execution will take place “ala ‘Brian are you the real Batman’?” scene in The Dark Knight. It will be placed on YouTube as a warning to either party for ever bringing the matter up again.
Case closed.
Oh, now be honest, NL West rivals, warriors to warriors. You do prefer it this way, don't you, as it was meant to be? No peace in our time. "Once more unto the breach, dear friends."
by jasontheuncatchable on Sep 26, 2010 10:32 PM MDT reply actions
We could easily charge $30 for this on PPV
Paleface Destro, Wildly Hacking Destroyer of Rallies: Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The San Francisco Spoiled Children: Weapons-grade stupid since 1883. HUMIDOR THIS you whiny Bonds-hugging babies.
HEAR YE: Tremble (with laughter) at the sight of Sir Preening Fauxhawk, BS, of the Clan of the Great Pumpkin
by Paleface Destro on Sep 26, 2010 10:35 PM MDT up reply actions
I nominate Tracy
he can pick Giambi as his weapon. Either he outfoxes and Giambi mashes, or the haters are happy ;-)
It'll all be ok in the end. If it's not ok, it's not the end.
"I hope this game isn't horrible. Because if it is, we're going to have to wait until tomorrow to see the Rockies win." ~5-yo
"Sometimes you're the windshield, and sometimes you're the bug."~Mitch Williams
Chief Engineer of the Ubaldo Lovers Club, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
by Rox the Casbah on Sep 26, 2010 10:37 PM MDT up reply actions
Words, Words, Words
5 hits in 2 games. I rest my case.
If the Rockies are cheating they’re lousy cheaters.
If you come to a fork in the road, take it.
- Yogi Berra
Seriously though: I feel betrayed by the mods here to an extent.
Why the hell do we have to entertain our enemies’ suspicions in a forum on our own fan site? Throw down the ban hammer. I feel no satisfaction from participating in a fruitless discussion where our guys struggle to be the “bigger person” against a bunch of nonsense slinging douche bags who are attempting to perpetrate the fallacy the middle ground or the voice of reason.
Back us up and scrub PR clean of this discussion.
Oh, now be honest, NL West rivals, warriors to warriors. You do prefer it this way, don't you, as it was meant to be? No peace in our time. "Once more unto the breach, dear friends."
by jasontheuncatchable on Sep 26, 2010 10:38 PM MDT reply actions
We don't have to entertain their suspicions
We just don’t need to be aggressively confrontational about it. If you don’t want to participate in the discussion, then don’t. If it gets any more out of hand, then I do have the banhammer at the ready.
The Seldom Herd
by Silverblood on Sep 26, 2010 10:40 PM MDT up reply actions
Plus, it's a hot topic, which is why I wrote the post
and one on which there are strong opinions. I am not going to prevent people from airing their feelings from both sides of the trenches, as long as it is conducted within reasonable limits.
The Seldom Herd
by Silverblood on Sep 26, 2010 10:43 PM MDT up reply actions
One more thing
Obviously, visiting fans from opposing teams are going to have a shorter leash than PR regulars. That will be the same wherever you go. I am not going to ask any PR regular to accept anything that said visiting fans may come up with, but I AM going to ask that if they choose to engage, they do it as adults. Most of the Giants fans that commented in response to this post actually agreed with what I had said, that the cheating accusations were ludicrous, logistically impossible, and denigrated the game.
The Seldom Herd
by Silverblood on Sep 26, 2010 10:49 PM MDT up reply actions
Except they agree like this....
Um, personally, I don’t think there’s cheating, but gosh, there’s just so damn many questions about it, that we’re just gonna have to ask you to prove the negative.
ROCKTEMBER - Time for Some F***ing Guy to Shine
ROCKTEMBER - The month before we play Mora playoff games
ROCKTEMBER - The rest of you can settle for Festivus
Exactly.
That’s why I think this is stupid. And it just reeks of the worst kind of sour grapes. Not only that, but the Rockies are in 3rd place! So the cheating has been soooooo effective.
Oh, now be honest, NL West rivals, warriors to warriors. You do prefer it this way, don't you, as it was meant to be? No peace in our time. "Once more unto the breach, dear friends."
by jasontheuncatchable on Sep 27, 2010 1:47 PM MDT up reply actions
Strong opinions
Well, one is a set of undisputed facts. The other is a tinfoil hat.
To consider those equally “strong” is silly.
ROCKTEMBER - Time for Some F***ing Guy to Shine
ROCKTEMBER - The month before we play Mora playoff games
ROCKTEMBER - The rest of you can settle for Festivus
And you should know the rule
when using the word douche bag. . . .
"No Mission Too Difficult, No Sacrifice Too Great—Duty First" - 1st Infantry Division Motto
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
SB Nation Denver - The regional hub for Denver sports!
Diplomatic and Military History Book Review - My other blog where I go all historical on you.
fair enough.
It’s just that…hasn’t this weekend been crappy enough? We now have to have another argument that we’re fans of a real baseball team?
Oh, now be honest, NL West rivals, warriors to warriors. You do prefer it this way, don't you, as it was meant to be? No peace in our time. "Once more unto the breach, dear friends."
by jasontheuncatchable on Sep 26, 2010 10:57 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
fair enough.
It’s just that…hasn’t this weekend been crappy enough? We now have to have another argument that we’re fans of a real baseball team?
Oh, now be honest, NL West rivals, warriors to warriors. You do prefer it this way, don't you, as it was meant to be? No peace in our time. "Once more unto the breach, dear friends."
by jasontheuncatchable on Sep 26, 2010 11:11 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Maybe if I were not 55 years old
I’d give a rat’s patoot about all of this. Yeah, it irks me that the initial accusation was made at all, but really. To me it’s kind of like getting upset over what happens on (insert reality show title here). There’s not a shred of evidence that the Rockies are cheating. As wagthedog noted, if they are cheating, they’re very bad at it.
Not that I don’t understand, and sympathize with, other people’s frustration/anger. But to an old guy, it’s all just one more Oliver Stone movie.
Get your purple on.
I’ve got a question, and it is simple, and I’m not trying to start anything. The Rockies organization allows Dinger to bounce around behind home plate (usually in late innings, when the Rockies are batting, and are down by runs). This is a seemingly blatant attempt to break the concentration of the pitcher. Now, I understand that fans sitting back there can and do do the same thing that Dinger does, but the issue I take with this is that Dinger represents the organization in a way. So if the organization is going to allow what one might call “very poor sportsmanship” by allowing their mascot, whom represents them to enough of an extent that you can say “he is acting in the interest of the organization”, to trying and distract opposing pitchers while not doing the same to Rockies pitchers when the role is reversed, then I would find that as a basis for the approach that the organization takes towards what is considered fair play. Now, I understand pretty much all of you hate Dinger, but that is not the point. Dinger represents the organization, so if he can be allowed to attempt to distract the opposing pitchers when concentration is most essential, then wouldn’t that be a form of attempting to skew the otherwise fair environment towards the Rockies? It is this form of sportsmanship displayed and okayed by the organization as a whole that many people base their view of what the organization deems to be “fair play”, thus lending a helping hand to the humidor controversy (which I won’t address at this juncture).
So if Dinger is allowed to do this, then where does one know where the line is drawn in regard to the overall outlook on fair play, and even if a line is drawn?
Rebuttal?
(I could have said this in a lot less words, but wanted to be sure that I was clear and consise)
Not a single Rockies fan is in favor of Dinger's antics
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Sep 27, 2010 7:00 AM MDT up reply actions
Yer hertin my cred
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Sep 27, 2010 10:20 AM MDT up reply actions
I know you aren’t in favor of Dingers antics, like I stated. So you’re not in favor of his anticcs, because you believe that he is making the organization (which approves of his behavior) look like poor sports?
by giant4life83 on Sep 27, 2010 3:32 PM MDT up reply actions
Here's my question...
Barry Bonds represented your organization for fifteen years, and was perhaps the most blatant user of illegally obtained steroids in the history of major league baseball. Certainly, he was the greatest beneficiary of their use in terms of records, contracts, and the like. Is that form of sportsmanship accepted and okayed by your organization as a whole that many people based their view of what the organization deemed to be fair play? After all, the Giants ownership directly benefited financially from Barry Bonds’ cheating, to the tune of tens of millions of dollars.
So where does one know where the line is drawn in regard to the Giants’ two-faced duplicitous outlook with regard to sportsmanship?
ROCKTEMBER - Time for Some F***ing Guy to Shine
ROCKTEMBER - The month before we play Mora playoff games
ROCKTEMBER - The rest of you can settle for Festivus
quit doing this
you’re deflecting somewhat valid points by just whitewashing them with “YEAH WELL BONDS”
by Andrew Martin on Sep 27, 2010 8:22 AM MDT up reply actions
What's the valid point here?
We’re being accused of cheating without any actual evidence of it at all. Accused by an organization that openly accepted the benefits of cheating for a decade. With all due respect, AMart, it’s not about whitewashing…it’s about the double standard that the Gints and their fans would like to apply here.
ROCKTEMBER - Time for Some F***ing Guy to Shine
ROCKTEMBER - The month before we play Mora playoff games
ROCKTEMBER - The rest of you can settle for Festivus
by Mondogarage on Sep 27, 2010 10:13 AM MDT up reply actions
and the Cardinals, and the Athletics, and Jeff Cirillo...
you have a clear beef with the gints, mondo. I don’t blame you either, I think the only guy I actually like on that team is Pat Burrell. But you’re being more heavy handed because it’s San Fran than if it were, say, the Marlins.
by Andrew Martin on Sep 27, 2010 10:22 AM MDT up reply actions
I'm being heavy-handed because Cards and A's fans don't....
1) don’t come over here and troll our fanboard with their unfounded accusations, and;
2) don’t act obnoxious towards PR users vising their boards.
ROCKTEMBER - Time for Some F***ing Guy to Shine
ROCKTEMBER - The month before we play Mora playoff games
ROCKTEMBER - The rest of you can settle for Festivus
by Mondogarage on Sep 27, 2010 10:28 AM MDT up reply actions
1) Jeff Cirillo totally registered
2) he’s Jeff Cirillo
by Andrew Martin on Sep 27, 2010 10:30 AM MDT up reply actions
Mondo is so biased against the Giants in the first place (run off MCC for being a jackass, anyone?) so I wouldn’t expect any type of intelligent response from him.
And Andrew Martin, thank you, yes I believe I do have valid points, and wish someone would address them. But if not, that’s fine.
by giant4life83 on Sep 27, 2010 3:30 PM MDT up reply actions
Any pitcher who is legitimately thrown off by Mr. Retarded Barney should be immediately DFAd.
If you’re that easily distracted, how the hell did you make the majors?
by Andrew Martin on Sep 27, 2010 8:21 AM MDT up reply actions
This
Also, Home Field Advantage. This ain’t golf. Quit being such pansies.
Having said that, it’s been demostrated to be physically impossible to be both secretive and effective at switching out humidor and non-humidor balls.
Bigass obnoxious purple dinosaur, not so impossible. So, yeah, not really related at all.
we hate Dinger, and that is the royal we
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
I dislike Dinger, and don't approve of his antics
that said, I’ve seen him do it when our closer (or, in some cases, “closer”) was pitching too. Does this also mean that fans are complicit in “poor sportsmanship” or even “cheating” when they do the wave? What about that AWFUL female Giants fan that was screaming every. freaking. at-bat. right in the front this past series? That could be construed as a blatant attempt at distraction… where does it end?
It'll all be ok in the end. If it's not ok, it's not the end.
"I hope this game isn't horrible. Because if it is, we're going to have to wait until tomorrow to see the Rockies win." ~5-yo
"Sometimes you're the windshield, and sometimes you're the bug."~Mitch Williams
Chief Engineer of the Ubaldo Lovers Club, Proud Member of the PR Gynocracy
by Rox the Casbah on Sep 27, 2010 10:38 AM MDT up reply actions
Fans don’t represent the organization. I went and took the time to write all that, and all i get is misdirection, deflection, and diversion. Not one person actually said anything other than “well i hate dinger, or the fans scream too.”
Well, the fans dont represent the organization, but Dinger does. So the organization allowing Dinger to bounce around attemping to distract someone, shows where their “sportsmanship boundaries” lie. And this was the question I laid out, but didn’t get a single thought-out response. Just more deflection
by giant4life83 on Sep 27, 2010 3:27 PM MDT up reply actions
Are you trying to draw a correlation between a stupid mascot doing stupid things
behind homeplate in the 9th inning or final inning in the case of extra baseball, with full on organizational cheating?
Those really aren’t the same thing.
2010 Colorado Zombies--It ain't over til it's over. So says Troy Torridwitzki
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.Good luck with the Rays!
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
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Also, on a completely different tangent than the Dinger issue/accredation of the Rockies organizational philosophy, I wanted to state in a way I think you should (IMO) be looking at this in a different light. Now MLB is monitoring the humidor and the transfer of balls (which IMO should have been done in the first place), not “relying the integrity of Jim Tracy”, so with this in mind, the Coors Conspiracy can be laid to rest, no?
The Rockies didn’t even tell anyone they had installed the humidor in the first place, it was finally leaked to the press or something like that, so the integrity is shaken by not the act of installing the humidor, but trying to keep a lid on it ever happening. Once again, this attacks the integrity of the organization. This is just my personal view, and I’m sharing it since you decided to put some time and thought into your thesis above, so with all due respect I am attempting to do the same and offer a counter-argument, albeit not about the humidor issue, but the integrity of the organization overall. Thank you for your time.
The Rockies didn’t even tell anyone they had installed the humidor in the first place, it was finally leaked to the press or something like that, so the integrity is shaken by not the act of installing the humidor, but trying to keep a lid on it ever happening.
Except MLB.
by Andrew Martin on Sep 27, 2010 8:23 AM MDT up reply actions
Giant4life83
Sure but can’t what you said be an issue with all ball parks? Can’t all of them doctor their balls in a manor that makes it more difficult to manage for the opposing team. Also how many ballparks can say that their baseballs are 100% regulation? The humidor was placed to create fairness rather then a ball launching field.
To say that the clubhouse might not have integrity is to say the same thing about other organizations. Even the giants who (sorry andrew this is not to point fingers) might have turned a blind eye on Bonds. Or how about the yankees who even though they are the best team in baseball still feel like they have to act to get on base(jeter issue). I think you might have to more closely label what integrity is before you can unbiasedly say your team might not be doing the same.
Ultimately I really like the rockies and they have played fantastic for a few years and (hopefully a few more) For not being the yankees I think we have done pretty well and also I hope that issues and rumors and pure speculation can be put to rest for good.
by nightninja13 on Sep 27, 2010 9:14 AM MDT up reply actions
In my opinion
“Everyone else is doing it” isn’t a good excuse. The Colorado Rockies need to account for the Colorado Rockies. I believe they are.
by Andrew Martin on Sep 27, 2010 9:29 AM MDT up reply actions
I agree with everything you said :)
I don’t think that it is a valid excuse in any case. But that being said my response was simply in response to an argument that said our organization might not be as full of integrity as we think. I just don’t know how anyone could prove or disprove it.
by nightninja13 on Sep 27, 2010 6:07 PM MDT up reply actions
You hit on an important point.
MLB apparently has a camera on the humidor and the bag in the dugout. Is it the same way in every ballpark? How do we know other clubs aren’t monkeying with the balls? Obviously, the Rockies have the most scrutiny and uncertainty to overcome in this regard, which also makes it most difficult to pull off.
Can the Giants prove that they’re not monkeying with the balls their pitching staff throws? It’s certainly easier for them than for the Rockies at this point.
Exactly.
The Giants haven’t proven they’re not sneaking in extra humid balls when the Rockies bat in AT&T, to keep them in the park. Prove it.
The Rockies are the only team in the majors that can actually prove to any extent at all how their balls are being handled.
ROCKTEMBER - Time for Some F***ing Guy to Shine
ROCKTEMBER - The month before we play Mora playoff games
ROCKTEMBER - The rest of you can settle for Festivus
by Mondogarage on Sep 27, 2010 10:15 AM MDT up reply actions
'How their balls are being handled'
We’ve gone too far into this conversation without a balls joke. This is as good as any.
that, mondo, is the dumbest argument I’ve ever heard. not because “it’s ludicrous”, but because once again you are just deflecting and attempting to use misdeirection to avoid answering a simple question.
given your history as a giants fan, how you were run out of MCC, i wont waste my time on you.
by giant4life83 on Sep 27, 2010 3:41 PM MDT up reply actions
Are you confusing Mondo with Victor?
I don’t think Mondo was ever a Giants fan
2010 Colorado Zombies--It ain't over til it's over. So says Troy Torridwitzki
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.Good luck with the Rays!
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
I've never been a Gints fan, not ever in my 44 years...
….which is less years than the Gints’ last WS victory, by a goodly bit.
No need to rehash how I was banned from MCC, and how their posters openly wished great severity to Tulo’s apparent injury that night….
ROCKTEMBER - Time for Some F***ing Guy to Shine
ROCKTEMBER - The month before we play Mora playoff games
ROCKTEMBER - The rest of you can settle for Festivus
Unfortunately this is exactly how we feel Giant, when we are accused of doctoring our balls.
by nightninja13 on Sep 27, 2010 6:12 PM MDT up reply actions
And they've deflected every insistence to present evidence
So let's just win 12 more games next year, mmmkay?
Will the Giants complain about the non-humidor balls in Citizens Bank Ballpark when they lose there, too?
TWINS FOR THE WINS, I guess!
Honestly, I think that what the Giants organization did regarding Bonds, milking him for the record, turning a blind eye to the cheating, was not right. Then they cut all ties once the sh*t really hit the fan.
So by making the direct parallel of Bonds-Giants, you are opening the door to Rockies-juiced balls.
If the Giants organization can so easily turn a blind eye to Bonds, why can’t the Rockies turn a blind eye to humidor misuse?
by giant4life83 on Sep 27, 2010 3:38 PM MDT up reply actions
I think you're off base here, giant.
Bonds did something individually as a player to advance himself. Why would all the people that have worked for the Rockies since the humidor was installed, all the ballboys, players, and coaches participate in a what would have to be a coordinated effort to accomplish this behavior do so? And how is it accomplished?
2010 Colorado Zombies--It ain't over til it's over. So says Troy Torridwitzki
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.Good luck with the Rays!
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
Actually...
I don’t see a door being opened to the possibility of our turning a blind eye with humidor balls. making the comparison is basically giving response to you about our organizations integrity and dingers antics NOT really mentioning the humidor at all.
Once again I would like to see the actual definition that you have about integrity because this is something that has to do with ethics and what you actually meant by the rocks organization not having it when others do similar or worse things.
I like the giants I also like Bonds(I might be one out of very few that will admit that) but I do not appreciate the angle you are coming from on this. Also its one of those things that can be turned around just as easily so I don’t think the argument is as well founded as it could be.
by nightninja13 on Sep 27, 2010 6:21 PM MDT up reply actions
Wasn't there a rumor for a while that KC's mound was actually shorter?
How was all that resolved?
Oh, now be honest, NL West rivals, warriors to warriors. You do prefer it this way, don't you, as it was meant to be? No peace in our time. "Once more unto the breach, dear friends."
by jasontheuncatchable on Sep 27, 2010 1:49 PM MDT reply actions
While we're tinfoiling it up, just remembered that one.
Oh, now be honest, NL West rivals, warriors to warriors. You do prefer it this way, don't you, as it was meant to be? No peace in our time. "Once more unto the breach, dear friends."
by jasontheuncatchable on Sep 27, 2010 1:49 PM MDT up reply actions
It was either a shorter mound or the distance to homeplate was less than required.
Oh, now be honest, NL West rivals, warriors to warriors. You do prefer it this way, don't you, as it was meant to be? No peace in our time. "Once more unto the breach, dear friends."
by jasontheuncatchable on Sep 27, 2010 1:50 PM MDT up reply actions
They made their pitchers taller, to compensate
ROCKTEMBER - Time for Some F***ing Guy to Shine
ROCKTEMBER - The month before we play Mora playoff games
ROCKTEMBER - The rest of you can settle for Festivus
Go Rockies.
The OT: All that AND a bag of meat.
by frightened inmate #2 on Sep 27, 2010 3:32 PM MDT reply actions

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