Friday Rockpile: Giambi Roster Dominoes, Does He Have More Value Than We Think?
by Greg Stanwood on Jan 21, 2011 7:00 AM MST
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PrintTroy Renck of the Denver Post has obtained the contract details for the brand new 2011 model of Jason Giambi.
To summarize: he'll earn $850k this season playing in the majors, may opt out of his contract on March 31 or June 1 if not on the MLB roster and if he has a deal lined up with another team, will be given a mutual $1 million option for 2012 if still on the roster at the end of the season ($150k buyout), and perhaps most significant of all to me, must receive $250k if he is released this Spring.
This throws a wrench in my earlier preference for what to do with Giambi.
When the news of the Giambi signing was first reported, I felt the best course of action would be to release Giambi if he wasn't make the team out of the gate, in order to give younger and, in my opinion, more valuable minor league depth such as Mike Jacobs or Eric Duncan the chance to play for the Sky Sox every day. It's not so much anything special about those two players when compared with Giambi, rather that they're quite a bit younger and less fragile, despite the infamous Giambi frame, and would likely make smarter insurance policies were Helton's back to flare up. $250k for being released in the Spring may not quite be a full major league salary, but as we've discussed many times before, this could be the difference between a late-season signing after the deadline when games are of great importance. Make no mistake, this is a major disincentive towards releasing him outright.
You see, having Giambi around the organization is still most valuable as a Helton insurance policy. On the surface, that is. As someone who leaned into the Giambi skeptic camp before writing this article, I probably wouldn't mind seeing a spot cleared for Giambi on April 1 if Helton were starting the season on the DL or something. But let's think about this from another perspective, the perspective that not only makes more sense this year, probably actually made more sense last year too: late inning pinch hitting. Any other spot on an active roister is redundant, right?
Maybe not.
Giambi doubters, let's break down our ever so troublesome left handed presence on the team, the one that made us so desperate for a right handed presence at first base last year.
- Todd Helton? Starting at 1B, or so we think for now.
- Ian Stewart? At least starting against righties, and should probably still be starting against lefties too if the matchup police don't intervene.
- Carlos Gonzalez? Obviously in the outfield every day.
- Seth Smith? *crickets chirp* Huh.
- The end.
Looking at our outfield depth options, which right now could probably billed "CarGo, Dex... and the rest" or something, a product of the sudden concern over Seth Smith's ability to play as a starter. Last year, when Hawpe's ribs nagged him to an eventual release for roster space, Smith was unexpectedly asked to take over full time in the third outfield spot, and it didn't work out so well. Check out those August and September splits. .129 BABIP? Good grief.
Smith is the first "roster domino" related to the significance of Giambi making the team. Continuing with this theme after the jump.
Let's recap, because I'm rambling in my usual unstructured way. Giambi's contract contains a significant buyout for being cut from the organization during the Spring, meaning he's now mostly likely to make the team as the 25th man or actually stick in the minors unless he happens to be offered a spot by another team (though the descriptions I have found thus far do not specify if it has to be an MLB contract to take the out or not).
Right now, all skepticism aside, Seth Smith is probably breaking camp as the third starting outfielder due to a lack of competition (we don't even have any OF NRIs officially announced, with only prospect Charles Blackmon and recent re-signing Jeff Salazar as known likely candidates as of 9:34 PM on 1/20, now watch them sign someone as soon as this goes up). As demonstrated above, what was once a left handed stronghold in the first two-thirds of 2009 with both Mr. Late Night Smith and Giambi at the bottom of the order for LH bench power has now become zero, and this is far more likely to be Giambi's contribution as the hypothetical 25th man this year.
Right now, the roster's bench is most easily projectable as Ryan Spilborghs, Ty Wigginton, a catcher (Jose Morales most likely), an emergency Troy Tulowitzki backup (Jonathan Herrera most likely), and X, which I'd long considered to be a faceoff between recent 40 man addition Cole Garner if a true 5th OF was needed, and toolsy Eric Young Jr. who offered a small degree of inherent contribution potential with his pinch running and lineup altering diversity if he were to start behind Jose Lopez, if needed. Giambi has now entered that conversation, and the more I look at it, rightfully so. Some are concerned that going without a true fifth OF in favor of an inexperienced Jonathan Herrera and ineffective Ty Wigginton is a real concern, but I doubt we'll be seeing CarGo and Fowler out of the lineup enough to make that happen, with only one spot ever shifting between Smith and Spilborghs when needed.
This is the second year that the Rockies surprised by re-signing Giambi, and there are probably still a lot of readers who have doubt (or fear) that he will actually be making this roster. But up until the signing itself, I really hadn't noticed the lack of left handed power in the back of the bench. Rox Girl has recently spoken of scenarios in which Smith loses his job as a starter in favor of Blackmon or another, more likely midseason than out of the gate, pushing him into that PH role where he has shown more consistent success. A situation like this, barring the aforementioned unhealthy Helton case, makes Giambi far more close to the expendable player some want him to be right now. But Blackmon isn't more likely to make the team than Giambi is to start.
Now I'd love to continue the roster dominoes train into how Giambi staying with or leaving the Sky Sox would affect players down there beyond the Jacobs types, but that's mostly a waste of time this early without knowing exactly who they want down there out of a relatively large pool of roster contenders. All I'll say here is that the AAA roster is but 24 players, even more crowded than an MLB roster. While there's more flexibility, including easy DL stints, the reserves list and the ability for any player to be made temporarily inactive for any reason at any time, it's still even more crowded than it is at the MLB level, especially when you consider AAA would obviously not be carrying four first basemen in Giambi, Jacobs, Duncan and Mike Paulk).
Conclusion: There are now more reasons for me to support picking Giambi to join the team, and the situation is more complicated than a roster workout at Spring Training to showcase him to other teams.
There's still a chance that another team does make him an offer sometime around March 31 or June 1. Further, the Rockies did protect themselves to some degree making it a minor league deal, but the $250,000 buyout and the limited opportunities to let Giambi out ends up handcuffing both sides, and making a 2011 Jason Giambi in a Rockies uniform a lot more likely than I thought it was 24 hours ago.
What do you think should happen with Giambi? Poll below.
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This was what I was trying to get at yesterday,
Hawpe+Smith made Giambi redundant in 2010, Smith+Wigginton makes him a decent fit in 2011.
I'll have to agree with you here.
Just an average guy with exceptional hair. Nothing more, nothing less.
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by Bryan Kilpatrick on Jan 21, 2011 7:25 AM MST up reply actions
Yes, and you have me convinced.
It took me yesterday to really contextualize this for myself because I was still thinking of Giambi’s role in 2010 moreso than I should have been, when I should have been looking forward.
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"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
by Greg Stanwood on Jan 21, 2011 8:31 AM MST up reply actions
Skeptical Mondo is Skeptical
I can understand the reasoning, though I’m not sure I agree that it makes Giambi a good idea here, because if Smith can’t be an effective everyday starter in the OF, and ends up more suited for PH, I’m not sure Wigginton is the answer in the OF. I’d rather carry someone else who can actually play somewhere on the field.
But I guess it makes the signing less than abject crazy.
Is it ApRil yet?
Any number above zero is way too many days before Pitchers and Catchers Reports
At which point
I would hope the organization makes a move to better the team, whether that be letting Giambi go and bringing in a younger outfielder or making some sort of trade. I trust the organization to make moves that benefit the club and that they will do it in a timely manner.
You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the goddamn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all. ~Earl Weaver
Baseball fans love numbers. They love to swirl them around their mouths like Bordeaux wine. ~Pat Conroy
JFK
The only problem I see with the viewpoint of Giambi was signed to make the roster is
he wasn’t in our initial roster making plan. I absolutely agree that makes sense for him to break camp as the LH bench bat, but why we would we fill up all 40 roster spots, especially with 2 OF’s capable of making the team (Garner and Blackmon) if only to outright somebody for a 40 year old pinch hitter who probably won’t last the year? With the way the contract is made out, it seems like they almost going to let him sit in Colorado Springs until a roster spot is open.
2011: A new year and a new chance at a championship.
This is an aspect I didn't consider.
Who do you kick off of the 40 man roster?
Is there a player on there who would clear waivers?
probably a couple, especially at the end of ST when everybody else is making cuts too.
Greg Reynolds is actually a pretty decent candidate to get cut, Edgmer Escalona could be too, if his command hasn’t improved. Of the position players, I think Garner’s probably the most likely to get cut, but it wouldn’t surprise me if EY2, Nelson and/or McKenry were moved in trade for minor leaguers.
Another obvious potential candidate will be Jose Morales if he loses the catcher battle.
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"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
by Greg Stanwood on Jan 21, 2011 8:32 AM MST up reply actions
I guess I see that as highly unlikely,
I think Morales is the third best catcher in the organization currently, and the second best needs to be a starter at AAA when he recovers from his ACL tear.
I still see Morales as the favorite for the job because of his roster status, but as I've also said, he's not the type of player you force onto a roster.
If he is outperformed by McKenry or Pagnozzi in ST, then they’re not going to loet the fact that he’s out of options stand in the way of making that work (and of course in Pagnozzi’s case, he’d have to be the one replacing Morales on the roster, so other things would have to occur as well).
I need to check Morales’ outright status and see if he can declare FA or not upon clearing waivers after an outright. If so, he can double up with the loser of McKenry and Pagnozzi as a placeholder until Rosario makes his way to AAA a few months in. Otherwise, I still see McKenry and Pagnozzi in AAA (easy to get there) and Morales behind Iannetta. But there will definitely be a whole month of ST behind that decision.
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"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
by Greg Stanwood on Jan 21, 2011 8:41 AM MST up reply actions
I almost completely disagree.
ST isn’t really going to help Pagnozzi, regardless of what the players do, unless there’s an injury to Iannetta or Morales. It’s too small a sample and the team knows better to judge based on that. McKenry’s almost in the same boat, but there’s at least a bit of a possibility that he could show enough in time. I think it’s very remote, though, and am about 95% certain that the only way Morales isn’t on the Opening Day roster is if he’s injured.
And I'd put my money closer to 75% Morales on the roster for now.
Believe me, I’m not exactly expecting a Matt Pagnozzi type to run away with anything, but I do think that either of the two emerging in the Spring will naturally put Morales’ roster spot in jeopardy if it is needed. We hit an interesting scenario this year where no major players were out of options and likely roster removal candidates for that reason, and I just see Morales as the closest thing to that. I suppose you’re probably of the opinion that it’s more likely we ditch Escalona than that. Maybe so.
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"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
by Greg Stanwood on Jan 21, 2011 8:50 AM MST up reply actions
"The two" being Pagnozzi, McKenry.
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"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
by Greg Stanwood on Jan 21, 2011 8:51 AM MST up reply actions
I think everybody should pretty much know what Pagnozzi is at this point,
he’s had a long minor league career and it’s not that pretty on offense. 100 PA’s (counting his BABIP luck driven Sep 2010 call-up with the Cards, plus a projected 50 for ST) is not very likely to convince anybody that he’s a different player from the 2000 minor league PA’s that resulted in .214/.292/.294 line. I see him as a call-up during the season if Morales flops or is injured, or likewise with Iannetta, but there’s really nothing to emerge from there. He’s a solid defensive back-up, and he’ll be good in a pinch, but his bat’s quite a bit behind Morales.
McKenry could be better, but he needs to make more contact. The K column will be the biggie for him this Spring, but I don’t think there will be quite enough PA’s to show that he’s a changed hitter statistically for us from afar, that will be up to the team’s scouts and FO to decide.
I think it's clear that Pagnozzi is the next Strittmatter.
There’s zero chance he’s on the ML roster, and by the end of ST, probably very little chance he even ends up on the AAA roster,.
Is it ApRil yet?
Any number above zero is way too many days before Pitchers and Catchers Reports
I actually expect Pagnozzi to be on the AAA roster until Rosario is ready, and then let go.
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
by Greg Stanwood on Jan 21, 2011 10:30 AM MST up reply actions
This makes enough sense to where I can modify a bit...
I can see him on the AAA roster until Rosario is ready and then he becomes a bullpen catcher.
Is it ApRil yet?
Any number above zero is way too many days before Pitchers and Catchers Reports
by Mondogarage on Jan 21, 2011 10:36 AM MST up reply actions
Well, we already have a new MLB bullpen catcher.
Does he become a minors instructor in your scenario? Why do you identify him as such a good candidate there (not that I’m saying he isn’t, I just didn’t really consider Pagnozzi as anything other than a legitimate off chance shot at becoming organizational filler at some level).
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
by Greg Stanwood on Jan 21, 2011 10:40 AM MST up reply actions
I'm just trying to justify to myself why we even signed him at all
When it seems he really isn’t even organizational filler replacement level, but that he appears to be a bright guy who actually knows a lot about catching.
Is it ApRil yet?
Any number above zero is way too many days before Pitchers and Catchers Reports
by Mondogarage on Jan 21, 2011 11:50 AM MST up reply actions
Organizational filler?
How offensive.
Just an average guy with exceptional hair. Nothing more, nothing less.
Bear Naked - My thoughts on sports, music, and life.
by Bryan Kilpatrick on Jan 21, 2011 12:27 PM MST up reply actions
yo dude
ever listen to Red City Radio?
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
I have not. Link me.
Just an average guy with exceptional hair. Nothing more, nothing less.
Bear Naked - My thoughts on sports, music, and life.
by Bryan Kilpatrick on Jan 21, 2011 12:31 PM MST up reply actions
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
They're super good...
kinda sounds like Hot Water Music.
Just an average guy with exceptional hair. Nothing more, nothing less.
Bear Naked - My thoughts on sports, music, and life.
by Bryan Kilpatrick on Jan 21, 2011 1:13 PM MST up reply actions
I have a soft spot for gruff vocals
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
I don't think clearing waivers will be the priority there.
Teams, including the Rockies, often let players be claimed in the late Spring with this very thought in mind (Jeff Salazar was one of these, as was Joe Koshansky). The Rockies may not need to designate or outright anybody. They’ll just toss some peripheral 40 man players on waivers and see what happens. As Rox Girl mentions above, small trades are also a possibility. So is a player having to start the season on the 60 day DL, allowing Giambi a free spot.
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
by Greg Stanwood on Jan 21, 2011 8:37 AM MST up reply actions
I'm not necessarily of the position that he was signed specifically to make the team.
But he’s got to be the favorite for the 25th spot right now. A day ago, I wouldn’t have said that.
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
by Greg Stanwood on Jan 21, 2011 8:35 AM MST up reply actions
I think Giambi makes as much sense on the roster as EY2
If you consider EY2’s and Wigginton’s OF skills to be about the same, and Wigginton is definitely on the roster, it makes sense to have that big sweaty mess (Giambi) on the end of the bench. It still allows you to use Wigginton as the RH 1B and 3B backup, with Giambi occasionally starting and always pinch hitting.
The only problem I have with both him and Jacobs in Col Springs is that… where’s the veteran OF depth? Salazar, I guess?
Did Jay Payton sign with anybody?
I bet they’ll extend an NRI to an outfielder at some point.
Unless they’re really high on Charlie Blackmon.
Payton is not yet signed, but I wouldn't look for him to return.
Maybe somebody similar. Right now, the AAA outfield probably projects to be Blackmon, Salazar, Garner if he’s not on the team or cut for roster space, and Michael Mitchell/Scott Beerer. Eric Young would see OF playing time too down there I think. There can be room for FA acquisitions in that group there, though.
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
by Greg Stanwood on Jan 21, 2011 8:44 AM MST up reply actions
Mike Paulk can also play some OF on that roster.
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
by Greg Stanwood on Jan 21, 2011 8:46 AM MST up reply actions
Duncan's also an "outfielder" in the same sense that Brad Hawpe was.
Macri could also be moved there to give him more utility value.
I have to admit that I was confused by the Giambi re-signing when it was first announced.
However, WM, you and Rox Girl have made compelling cases for how it makes sense over the past few days. I suppose as a late-inning pinch hitter, Giambi would actually have more impact as our 25th man than Cole Garner might as a 5th outfielder or EY2 would as a pinch runner/spot starter in the outfield or 2B. And I’d certainly rather have Giambi pinch hitting late in games than Jonathan Herrera (no offense to Jonny, Giambi’s just a more imposing bat).
The idea of Wiggington or Herrera seeing time in the outfield makes me a bit queasy, but given that two of the outfield starting spots are spoken for basically every day with CarGo and Dex and we have two other fairly capable guys to platoon in the third (and I’m much more optimistic about Seth Smith than some people here), I doubt they’ll be out there enough to give me ulcers, barring injury of course.
I do not want to see him on the 25 man roster
Projected bench now is Spilly/Smith, backup catcher, Wiggy, Giambi, and backup infielder which is likely Herrera. Lopez is likely to be handed the 2B job which means Nelson is squeezed. 2 things bother me here. 1 – Nelson is likely gone without getting a real crack and 2. Giambi just isn’t going to catch up to many Broxton, Bell, Wilson fastballs at this stage and is a defensive liability at 1B.
eh, Giambi could at least draw a BB off them then.
I actually do sort of agree, though. I think Tracy could get a lot more out of Giambi if he thought of him as a 7th or 8th inning bat than a 9th inning bat. It’s the reverse of not using your closer only in the ninth inning, but when the game is most on the line.
what worries me here
is that we have essentially swapped Barmes for Lopez and Mora for Wiggy. The team was not good enough to make the playoffs last year and now they will have essentially the same roster (if they indeed keep Giambi). The two roster moves above are not significant upgrades. I think the pitching will be better with full years out of Chacin and DLR. I am of the belief that Cargo and Tulo are legit and will continue to produce. The rest of the lineup and bench are huge question marks. My guess is Fowler and Smith bounce back a bit, Stewart is what he is – I don’t see him all of a sudden batting .280, and who can even guess what Ianetta is going to do. They can’t survive if Helton is going to bat a soft .250 again, and Giambi to me is not a legitimate 1B option.
I'm going to edit your post...
…we have essentially swapped Barmes for Lopez and Mora for Wiggy. The team was not good enough to make the playoffs last year, just less lucky than the Giants, and now they will have essentially the same roster (if they indeed keep Giambi). The two roster moves above are not significant upgrades. I think the pitching will may be better with full years out of Chacin and DLR, but am aware that Chacin will probably regress some. I am of the belief that Cargo and Tulo are legit and will continue to produce. The rest of the lineup and bench are huge question marks. My guess is Fowler and Smith bounce back a bit, Fowler especially, Stewart is better than a lot of Rockies fans think and solid, what he is – I don’t see him all of a sudden batting .280, and who can even guess what Ianetta is going to do. They can’t might survive if Helton is going to bat a soft .250 again, and Giambi to me is not a legitimate 1B option a top notch bench bat.
by Rox Girl on Jan 21, 2011 2:43 PM MST up reply actions 4 recs
I will go with my original post
I disagree that they were less lucky than the Giants. The Giants got it done. I do not like the new stats because there are too many numbers and to blame luck for the clubs failings is a cop out. Lopez with his .300 on base percentage is not a significant upgrade on Barmes and you lose something defensively there. We have a major difference of opinion on his value. Same with Stewart who is the new Branyan. Too much swing and miss for my liking. Giambi is no longer a top bench bat he batted .244 last year – he also struck out way too often. They can not waste a spot on him this year. This club will probably continue to struggle scoring runs on the road.
Really
I disagree that they were less lucky than the Giants.
-Cook missed 50 games with injuries.
-de la Rosa missed 66 games with injuries.
-Hammel missed 14 games with injuries.
-Street missed 74 games with injuries.
-Francis missed 63 games with injuries.
-Tulowitzki missed 39 games with injuries.
-Lincecum, Cain, Sanchez, Bumgarner, Zito, Wilson, Huff (best hitter) combined to miss ZERO games.
309 games vs. ZERO in games missed by the rotation, closer and best hitter.
You can say all you want about conditioning, good trainers and picking players with “healthy” backgrounds, but there is no way to refute the injuries in 2010 were not fluky for both teams. There was quite a bit of wins left on the board with Greg Smith, Esmil Rogers and Franklin Morales forced into regular work.
But it wasn’t just injuries either. Sure, good seasons are legitimate. Andres Torres “got it done.” But it’s still lucky that Torres, Huff, Ross and Burrell produced far more than expected all in one season. Not even superstars jump to a level and stay there all that often.
As for Giambi, a .378 OBP is exceptional from a bench bat, his OPS was above league average (including starters). The National League average for batting average is .255, so it isn’t as if a .244 is really all that awful. His K% was 6% over league average, but that’s not horrible for a guy that will be facing each team’s best lefty reliever. He’s a solid bench bat for sure, as long as he can comfortably fit onto the roster
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 21, 2011 7:10 PM MST up reply actions 5 recs
Keep Coming with the excuses
And I ask the simple question – how is the same lineup as last year (with the exception of 2B) going to start scoring on the road? You can not expect Cargo and Tulo to put the rest of the lineup on their backs. We are banking on players to step up (Stewart) or to come back (Helton). I am not trying to be a downer here, rather to be objective as apparently everyone has rose colored glasses on.
People hated Lopez before we acquired him, now “he’s a lot better player than we think he is”. Half the board wanted to drop Giambi last season now “if you use him correctly he can still be effective”. A little consistency in how players are judged would be nice. Everyone seems to get better after their UZR or some other computer generated stat is analyzed to death. The newsflash is guys like Paulino who is 6-21 with a horrific ERA is not going to be significantly better because he is donning our uniform. DLR was a little under .500 before he got here but he sure wasn’t 6-21.
Yes the Giants were injury free last year and Andres Torres had without a doubt a career year. But honestly is Lincecum gonna suck for two months next year like he did this year? Do you honestly believe Bumgarner isn’t going to be better with all the postseason experience? – and he only pitched half the season for them. Sanchez has just as much chance next year to bust out as De La Rosa. Finally, Buster Posey won’t be sitting in AAA for the first 6 weeks of the season and he (not Huff) was their best hitter last year. The Giants could get better if a couple of things I just mentioned happen and they are just as likely to happen as Ian Stewart suddenly becoming a solid .280 hitter who doesn’t whiff every 3 1/2 times up.
Look I love the Rox as much as anybody on the board and I am thrilled that they locked up DLR, Tulo, and Cargo. They are part of a solid core . But I look at the other 7 spots in the lineup and I see a whole lot of question marks. At least I am honest enough with myself to see this. The club honestly should have looked for a legit starting outfielder and slid Smith back into the pinch hitting specialist role rather than resign a washed up player who can’t run and can’t field. Yes Giambi will run into one every now and again but he is so useless in every other aspect that it is terrible to waste a bench spot on him.
by RoxandRoll on Jan 21, 2011 10:37 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I mostly agree with you in the context we seem to collect too many of the same kind of hitter.
I would also rather see a legitimate outfielder on the roster; with Smith training to play first for an injured or retired Todd. I am not in love with Lopez, but acknowledge his bat has the potential to surpass Barmes’.
I think Herrera is our most versitile reserve infielder defensively and could probably hold his own in left in an emergency. I would rather have seen Garner and Nelson get their shot than sign Giambi and Wiggy and would have rather saved the money.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
excuses? I don't play for the Rockies
I’m analyzing them. You speak of inconsistency in analysis but are guilty of it yourself in the same comment. How are the Rockies banking on health and more complete seasons from injured players an excuse, yet the Giants banking on more complete seasons from Posey and Bumgarner legitimate? Would you accept that the Rockies would be better if Street, de la Rosa, Cook, Francis, and Hammel were just held in the minors instead of being injured? The only real difference is that the injured players have a longer baseline for performance, while we don’t know what Posey and MadBum are capable of longterm.
If you don’t want to hear about injuries in 2010, fine. Don’t read or be a giants fan. But it would be irresponsible of us not to include it as an integral part of our analysis, as it was the biggest aspect to the plague of the season.
No, I do not believe Bumgarner will be better in 2011. Playoff experience doesn’t mean that much (FMo), and not even his fans on fangraphs project him to be as good. His projected ERA there is a half run higher.
As for Paulino, no one expects him to be a huge part of the team this season, just better than his stats indicate, which is hard not to do. Two years ago, we had the same discussion, except Rox Girl was one of the only people as convinced about Jason Hammel.
As for Lopez, we all wanted a big RH bat this offseason. The Lopez acquisition signalled that we were likely rolling with Lopez/Wiggy, so disappointment is understandable. I agree with you that I’d have preferred an upgrade in the outfield. My preference was Willingham. But once the dust settled, rg constructed an intelligent argument that Lopez could benefit from Coors. We are human. Allow for a human evolution of ideas. It isn’t inconsistency.
As for Giambi, it is VERY important to note that his role in 2011 would be vastly different than 2010. In 2010, he was a backup 1b and lefty PH that was made largely redundant as one of Smith/Hawpe were often on the bench. This year, he would be the only LH PH (important) and with Wigginton likely taking the 5th OF, backup 1B and utility infield roles, an extra player can be on the bench, and Giambi can be PH extraordinaire. It isn’t inconsistency in analysis. It is vastly different circumstances, and our analysis won’t gloss over that.
The road scoring is a big storyline for 2011. Their scoring was inexplicably down on the road 0.7 runs per game from 2009, which honestly doesn’t make much sense. I expect it to improve, just because it is tough to go lower, but that’s an important thing to watch next year.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 22, 2011 9:08 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
Paulino and Hammel are similar in one respect that RoxandRoll has a point with
The value of both is likely significantly inflated by our advanced stats because there’s too much expected BABIP regression for them. They both seem to allow pretty solid contact when hitters get a hold of one of their pitches. That said, if Paulino was flawless as a sixth starter, he wouldn’t be a sixth starter.
I certainly won't disagree with that
but it’s a bit disingenuous to suggest homerism just for stating Paulino is better than a 6-21 5.83 ERA pitcher.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 22, 2011 9:39 AM MST up reply actions
There's a lot to respond to here...
I very much doubt anything we say would be convincing to you, however, as you seem to have your mind made up on the subject and don’t seem to keen on looking objectively at anything that disagrees with your current mindset.
However, to the answer for your simple question, I would suggest that you look at Dexter Fowler and Carlos Gonzalez’s road numbers in the second half, compared to the first half and consider that they are young and improving players, and decide if they are signs of things to come. My guess is that you’ll actually somehow decide that they’re a fluke and the improvement isn’t sustainable, because as I said, I think you lack objectivity and will tend to go back to what you already believe. If you do decide that, you might actually be right, it could be that they are fluky and not real improvements, but I tend to be an optimist when it comes to the Rockies.
I would also suggest you look at Jose Lopez’s performance against the NL in his career thus far and compare his road numbers to Clint Barmes’ road numbers. It’s quite a bit of an upgrade. Finally, I’d just ask you to look at the top five hitting third basemen on the road in the NL last season and look at their ages. If we get more Ian Stewart on the road, we will score more on the road. It’s a simple formula.
Oops. By second half for CarGo and Dex, I was actually referring to from Aug. 1 to the end of the season.
Arbitrarily taking out the ten game disaster after the ASB makes a big difference. That particular road trip seemed to mark a low point for the team. After that, things got quite a bit better, but I honestly don’t know if it was real improvement or not. I think the first couple of months on the road in 2011 for the Rockies will be telling if that was a real step forward or just noise.
My problem with roxandroll's thinking
About SABR stats is that almost all stats, team wins possibly excluded, are more or less constructed around the same premise: quantifying the individual actions we see on a baseball field.
The more complex or esoteric stats may be harder to understand at first, especially when they’re a combination of other stats that seem tricky or abritrary on the surface. But nothing’s changed, there’s no black magic involved – it’s simply a way of stating performance in numerical terms.
So, basically, SABR can’t be a fad as the numbers it provides are as real as what happens on the diamond.
SABR stats can be flawed, of course, either through an imperfect methodology (UZR seems a likely candidate because of the apparent persecution of players in Coors, and many other stats suffer from the difficulty of measuring real-life events) or through misapplication, probably a bigger issue – the more complex the pot of stats is, the more likely people are to use it wrongly, notwithstanding those who intentionally skew their arguments by cherry picking the data that backs them up (aka lies, damn lies and statistics).
Fortunately, though, the SABR community is a bunch of baseball-addicted enthuso-nerds who will work till they drop to hone the stats that best define each element of baseball.
Yahoo Sports released their Rockies preview today
here. All I can say is really? That’s the best a paid writer can do? Some of the worst
Offense hasn’t been a problem and likely won’t be again. The Rockies finished in the top four in the National League in most hitting categories. Pitching, however, could be even more problematic than last season, when the team ERA ranked 12th in the league.
Plus he makes this wonderful contradictory argument that financially we’re fine right now but in 2015 we’ve going to be hurting, because we don’t have many top prospects close to the majors right now.
by Chacinisthefuture on Jan 21, 2011 8:16 AM MST reply actions
Anybody could've mailed that one in...
I guess this particular genius did manage to get through one DP article so he’s sort of an expert.
Go Bruce!
wow... we really are hurting...
we have only six years to develop prospects, just six. Everybody knows that they’re like building cathedrals, it takes at least ten, right? What’s the team thinking?!
Plus with inflation and increased revenues
we are looking at a $100 million salary range in 2015-2017 leave plenty of room for other players.
by Chacinisthefuture on Jan 21, 2011 8:37 AM MST up reply actions
I guess what annoys me the most is the groupthink and limited problem solving these guys have
They think there is only 1 way to win for a mid-market team. And they’ll think that until the Rockies or another team uses a different strategy and then they’ll all swap and think that’s the only way to do it.
by Chacinisthefuture on Jan 21, 2011 8:40 AM MST up reply actions
We may as well give up on pitching at Coors
Get a few kids in on internships to pitch, and field seven outfielders on the warming track.
I'm wondering now what "experts"
made of the Rockies prospects back in say 2005 or 2006? Just as a comparison, we rose to some prominence.
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies-DeadWalking to the NL West crown
Todd and Troy: Because they ARE Rockies.
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Actually, our system was considered very very strong then...
just behind the Diamondbacks, oh wait… so maybe the experts weren’t completely right.
Speaking of the D'backs
What does everyone think about them for next season. Any chance of reaching .500 if Upton has a breakout season and their young starters surprise? We have not spent much time discussing this.
71 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 21, 2011 9:24 AM MST up reply actions
There's a chance.
They aren’t that bad a team and they’ve drastically improved their biggest weaknesses from last season (the bullpen mostly, but also the high K rate without a correspondingly high BB rate on offense).
The one trouble I have projecting over .500 is that talent-wise, they’re still likely behind the other four teams in the division, and with an unbalanced schedule, that will make getting to 81 wins trickier. They’re definitely within a margin that it could happen though.
There was a good article 10 days or so again
Which pointed out that their power options are worryingly thin now, and the reduction in Ks won’t even come close to making up for that.
maybe Brandon Allen will hit 40 dingers
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 21, 2011 11:07 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
They're farm system still produced some pretty good players from those two years, they just traded most of them away
Cargo, Quentin, Anderson were all in those classes right?
by purplesocks on Jan 21, 2011 12:54 PM MST up reply actions
Well ur prospect have never been as good
as the Yankees or the Cubs for sure…
by Chacinisthefuture on Jan 21, 2011 8:42 AM MST up reply actions
Wow, this is dumb even by normal Yahoo (read "Passan") standards.
I’m seriously about to close my Yahoo accounts and swear off their entire website. There’s far better places to get all my information.
Is it ApRil yet?
Any number above zero is way too many days before Pitchers and Catchers Reports
by Mondogarage on Jan 21, 2011 10:00 AM MST up reply actions
I know
I had slightly better hopes when I saw that Henson was doing the Rockies review, then I read it and realized it’s all groupthink over there.
by Chacinisthefuture on Jan 21, 2011 10:04 AM MST up reply actions
More like groupnothink
I can’t use the appropriate language here on the Row to describe how I feel about the national…um…“writers”.
But they do have their own special buses to ride in.
Is it ApRil yet?
Any number above zero is way too many days before Pitchers and Catchers Reports
by Mondogarage on Jan 21, 2011 10:07 AM MST up reply actions
I felt like the article came out of 2000
hitting but still no pitching…
by Chacinisthefuture on Jan 21, 2011 10:13 AM MST up reply actions
Well of course our pitching is bad
Look out our staff ERA – that tells the whole story don’t you know?
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It really annoys me that they paid a guy to do this
when he clearly didn’t actually watch any Rockies games last year, and instead just did a cursory glance at the stats sheet and decided what our problems in 2010 were from that.
Heck, anybody here could have written a better Rockies preview than that.
It really annoys me that this guy has a job, when the unemployment rate is 9.6%
There are a lot more deserving human beings out there who would actually earn that paycheck.
Is it ApRil yet?
Any number above zero is way too many days before Pitchers and Catchers Reports
by Mondogarage on Jan 21, 2011 10:14 AM MST up reply actions
He could have been gone two years ago to boot.
He re-signed with us last year. It’s pretty uncommon to see players with enough time to be MiLB FAs re-sign with the organization twice that way. It suggests there’s no future for them there, and in Mayora’s case there really wasn’t.
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"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
by Greg Stanwood on Jan 21, 2011 8:34 AM MST up reply actions
Cole Garner did
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 21, 2011 9:23 AM MST up reply actions
Cole Garner only did once, just like Daniel Mayora.
We purchased his contract before he had the chance to leave again
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"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
by Greg Stanwood on Jan 21, 2011 10:31 AM MST up reply actions
Oh that's right
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 21, 2011 10:33 AM MST up reply actions
Though if he had left but we offered him a 40 man roster spot afterwards, he probably would have accepted that too.
But another MiLB deal? I dunno.
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"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
by Greg Stanwood on Jan 21, 2011 10:34 AM MST up reply actions
With all of the Rockies in town for the fan and media events this weekend, Troy Renck will be trying to ask as many questions as he can to the players and provide constant updates via Twitter.
So boot up Twitter and take a look today
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"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
Also feel free to send him questions...
he’s going to try to get as many answered as he can.
Ignorance of the American League is a sign of good moral character.
I used to be normal until I met these losers I now call my friends.
"Cheap tacos are rightous!"-My Daughter
We hav arrived
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 21, 2011 9:24 AM MST up reply actions
They obviously want him back
for the sweet Wolfpack walk up music.
Cooler than a polar bear's toenails...
Metrosexual: It's like being gay, but not being into guys.
You don't turn
your back on the Wolfpack.
"No Mission Too Difficult, No Sacrifice Too Great—Duty First" - 1st Infantry Division Motto
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Because if you decide to do so,
history suggests you may wind up in a body bag.
Just an average guy with exceptional hair. Nothing more, nothing less.
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by Bryan Kilpatrick on Jan 21, 2011 11:00 AM MST up reply actions
Reading Renck's first few Tweets,
I really need to prepare myself for the onslaught of “he’s in the best shape of his life” stories that we get every spring.
I want to get all optimistic about them every year. I remember being super excited for Cook’s season last Spring.
They're
going to be feeling loose, also.
"No Mission Too Difficult, No Sacrifice Too Great—Duty First" - 1st Infantry Division Motto
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Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
And who's been sloppin pigs all winter.
Strikeouts are boring - besides that, they're fascist. Throw some more groundballs. Its more democratic. - Crash Davis
by DAWNMARIE01 on Jan 21, 2011 10:19 AM MST up reply actions
So he's Red Sox fan too ?:P
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies-DeadWalking to the NL West crown
Todd and Troy: Because they ARE Rockies.
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He is a Rhode Island native
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 21, 2011 10:23 AM MST up reply actions
That's no excuse
70 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 21, 2011 1:43 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
seriously.
I'm GoRockies!! everybody :P
by CentralCaliRox on Jan 21, 2011 1:35 PM MST up reply actions
The fat cow
showed up fat as a cow.
"No Mission Too Difficult, No Sacrifice Too Great—Duty First" - 1st Infantry Division Motto
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Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Too many double dates with Aaron Cook.
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"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
by Greg Stanwood on Jan 21, 2011 10:43 AM MST up reply actions
just as long as none of them contain the words:
“shoulder’s a little tight” or something to that effect, I can live with the “best shape of his life” stuff.
You so called it with Jair Jurrjens last season.
Just an average guy with exceptional hair. Nothing more, nothing less.
Bear Naked - My thoughts on sports, music, and life.
by Bryan Kilpatrick on Jan 21, 2011 12:28 PM MST up reply actions
she's quite good at predicting.
I'm GoRockies!! everybody :P
by CentralCaliRox on Jan 21, 2011 1:36 PM MST up reply actions
The people in charge already did
You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the goddamn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all. ~Earl Weaver
Baseball fans love numbers. They love to swirl them around their mouths like Bordeaux wine. ~Pat Conroy
JFK
One of these days I'll have to have a blind squirrel moment on them.
Lopez will be amazing for certain.
Spilly with a llama.
"No Mission Too Difficult, No Sacrifice Too Great—Duty First" - 1st Infantry Division Motto
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by Russ Oates on Jan 21, 2011 10:28 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
Are you telling me that Spilly is hanging out with Pau Gasol?
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies-DeadWalking to the NL West crown
Todd and Troy: Because they ARE Rockies.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
"No Mission Too Difficult, No Sacrifice Too Great—Duty First" - 1st Infantry Division Motto
SB Nation Denver - The regional hub for Denver sports!
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
So I was correct then....it is Pau Gasol.
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies-DeadWalking to the NL West crown
Todd and Troy: Because they ARE Rockies.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
Why?
Hebrew National Hot Dogs - The Official Hot Dog of the Colorado Rockies.
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
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Commercial.
"No Mission Too Difficult, No Sacrifice Too Great—Duty First" - 1st Infantry Division Motto
SB Nation Denver - The regional hub for Denver sports!
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Oh I thought
Todd was going to be cooking it up in the clubhouse kitchen.
Hebrew National Hot Dogs - The Official Hot Dog of the Colorado Rockies.
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
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Can't wait to see that one!
Strikeouts are boring - besides that, they're fascist. Throw some more groundballs. Its more democratic. - Crash Davis
by DAWNMARIE01 on Jan 21, 2011 10:43 AM MST up reply actions
Confused llama!
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
by Greg Stanwood on Jan 21, 2011 10:33 AM MST up reply actions
More Spilly and llama.
"No Mission Too Difficult, No Sacrifice Too Great—Duty First" - 1st Infantry Division Motto
SB Nation Denver - The regional hub for Denver sports!
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Hmm . . .
new Spilly avatar?
Strikeouts are boring - besides that, they're fascist. Throw some more groundballs. Its more democratic. - Crash Davis
by DAWNMARIE01 on Jan 21, 2011 10:44 AM MST up reply actions
Jason Giambi had a
0.1 War last season
When will the NCAA admit that it is a business with the sole purpose for making money off of student athletes?
Mark 16:15-18
he had a 1.81 WPA, though
and given his mostly PH duties, this is the one position player roster spot where I find that stat pretty useful.
but as a possible starter is Todd goes down?
by BringItHome on Jan 21, 2011 11:33 AM MST up reply actions
I imagine Wild Wild West Wigginton would get the majority of playing time at 1B in case of injury
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Rock Cleveland, Galiardi!
SB Nation Denver
I do too
but a lot of ATF’s justification for the signing was that Giambi could fill in for Todd. Personally I wouldn’t want to see Giambi take reps at 1st this year and I have a hard time wanting to give up that roster spot for Giambi as an exclusive PH role.
by BringItHome on Jan 21, 2011 11:39 AM MST up reply actions
Giambi "filling in for Todd" is less a signature of "starting at 1B for Todd" and more like "filling Todd's roster spot".
In other words, having Giambi as a left handed 1B option when we don’t have another one doesn’t necessarily enforce the idea that he also has to be playing every time Helton would have.
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"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
by Greg Stanwood on Jan 21, 2011 11:44 AM MST up reply actions
Oh triple dubz Wigginton?
yea, he’s the man.
Building off of what’s been discussed sporadically this offseason, the Rockies appear to be trying to build something a little different – a club where players want to play and are even willing to accept some form of paycut, where the atmosphere is something different. They’re trying to build competitive advantage through org.culture, no easy feat.
The two most questionable signings this offseason are both two dudes with reputations for being great in the clubhouse… I wonder if it’s a theme or just coincidence. As such, I wouldn’t be too quick to dismiss either signing – even in the face of their apparent superfluity. If players have accepted discounts to play here, then those small savings have seemingly been reallocated towards the ‘vibe of the organization’ for lack of a better term…
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
just like with a lot of stats though
you can spin em a lot of ways…
just to clarify i am not disagreeing with your stat…just making a general statement on stats
When will the NCAA admit that it is a business with the sole purpose for making money off of student athletes?
Mark 16:15-18
by waterboy31321 on Jan 21, 2011 12:22 PM MST up reply actions
Yeah, true enough...
But just look at the play log…
Giambi was worth more for the Rockies last year than a tenth of a win.
Todd is stroking
"No Mission Too Difficult, No Sacrifice Too Great—Duty First" - 1st Infantry Division Motto
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Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
where are they going with these commercials?
Hebrew National Hot Dogs - The Official Hot Dog of the Colorado Rockies.
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
Video tips on posting links and images to Purple Row - Click Here -
Toddfather
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
hahaha
these commercials are going to be funny
When will the NCAA admit that it is a business with the sole purpose for making money off of student athletes?
Mark 16:15-18
by waterboy31321 on Jan 21, 2011 12:19 PM MST up reply actions
via Renck
Tulo planning on growing rat tail.
Ahem.
Who knew that Muzia’s love is like a rock tied to your feet, dragging you to the bottom of the ocean?
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Rock Cleveland, Galiardi!
SB Nation Denver
I'm going to miss the mullet.
Rat tails aren’t anything special to me. More creative than what he has now though.
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"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
by Greg Stanwood on Jan 21, 2011 12:00 PM MST up reply actions
He should grow a devil lock
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
He should go Lincecum.
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
by Greg Stanwood on Jan 21, 2011 12:06 PM MST up reply actions
just needs
some mother marijuana and he will be there in no time
When will the NCAA admit that it is a business with the sole purpose for making money off of student athletes?
Mark 16:15-18
by waterboy31321 on Jan 21, 2011 12:19 PM MST up reply actions
Liberty spikes!
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
Let me guess. ASPCA fundraiser??
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
Bazinga!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Jan 21, 2011 12:27 PM MST up reply actions
Mullet, Rat tail.
His house doesnt happen to have wheels, does it?
People ask me what I do during the winter when there is no baseball. I tell you what I do, I stare out the window and wait for spring.
by The Lodo Magic Man on Jan 21, 2011 12:30 PM MST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
You know your a redneck if...
Your richest relative just upgraded his house to a doublewide.
by Chacinisthefuture on Jan 21, 2011 12:33 PM MST up reply actions
Can't wait for 2012's frohawk
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 21, 2011 12:36 PM MST up reply actions
Tulowitzki
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
Whoa. What's with the crew cut. He looks weird. I think I liked the mullet better.
Strikeouts are boring - besides that, they're fascist. Throw some more groundballs. Its more democratic. - Crash Davis
Buzz cut looks way better.
You’re just used to the mullet I think.
I'm GoRockies!! everybody :P
by CentralCaliRox on Jan 21, 2011 4:37 PM MST up reply actions
Yuck. He looks like a Marine
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies-DeadWalking to the NL West crown
Todd and Troy: Because they ARE Rockies.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
His head looks disproportionate to his body.
But ew mullet.
I'm GoRockies!! everybody :P
by CentralCaliRox on Jan 21, 2011 5:19 PM MST up reply actions
His ears look disproportionate to his head with the buzz cut.
Strikeouts are boring - besides that, they're fascist. Throw some more groundballs. Its more democratic. - Crash Davis
Just imagine...that hair with a rat tail growing from the back of it.
Just an average guy with exceptional hair. Nothing more, nothing less.
Bear Naked - My thoughts on sports, music, and life.
by Bryan Kilpatrick on Jan 22, 2011 5:59 AM MST up reply actions
Isn't that pretty close to how he looked in his rookie year in 07?
70 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 21, 2011 8:18 PM MST up reply actions
Just as long as none of our players get hurt
shooting commercials. Like that one pitcher last year from like Baltimore or Florida or something
When will the NCAA admit that it is a business with the sole purpose for making money off of student athletes?
Mark 16:15-18
Brad Bergesen
for the strained shoulder.
"No Mission Too Difficult, No Sacrifice Too Great—Duty First" - 1st Infantry Division Motto
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Anyone know anything (positive or negative)
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
Also,
hooray, Rockies Roster got mentioned on MLBTR
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
That’s great news.
You did give the link though, thanks.
You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the goddamn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all. ~Earl Weaver
Baseball fans love numbers. They love to swirl them around their mouths like Bordeaux wine. ~Pat Conroy
JFK
lol I have selective literacy
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
You can all thank me
for forcing MLBTR to link to the page.
I suppose you can also thank WolfMarauder and BlakeBomber for actually making the page.
Just an average guy with exceptional hair. Nothing more, nothing less.
Bear Naked - My thoughts on sports, music, and life.
by Bryan Kilpatrick on Jan 21, 2011 1:12 PM MST up reply actions
yep you did
You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the goddamn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all. ~Earl Weaver
Baseball fans love numbers. They love to swirl them around their mouths like Bordeaux wine. ~Pat Conroy
JFK
Seth Smith was never made a full-time starter!!
I wish people would stop driving this myth because I’m going to submit it to Snopes. He started more games in the first half than he did post ASB, and he hit an .894 OPS during the first half. Seth only started in 3 games against lefties last season. Maybe Travel Tracy should just let him play.
@charliedrysdale
by Charlie77 on Jan 21, 2011 1:12 PM MST via mobile reply actions
if he hits better against LHP's when he does get the chance, he'll get more chances.
That’s how it usually works. I’m sure he’ll get a lot of opportunity in the Spring.
He had a 1.090 OPS in 8 starts against lefties in 2009.
He’s only been given 13 starts against lefties in his entire career. So it’s not like he can’t hit lefties. It’s that he isn’t allowed to.
@charliedrysdale
by Charlie77 on Jan 21, 2011 3:42 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Small sample size
Sorry, even he admits he was awful last year (re Renck’s tweets today). I don’t think you’ll find very many baseball people who think he’ll break out into all-star territory if just allowed to hit against lefties. He’s a severely flawed hitter who does best when hitting at home against RH relievers who only have a couple pitches, and mainly throw fastballs. Keep him in that late inning PH role, and I think he’s hugely valuable. Anything else, he’s well below average, at least for a corner OF.
But you never know. People change. I certainly hope his new “approach” pays off.
by BostonTransplant on Jan 21, 2011 4:19 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
From Renck's tweet:
Forget to mention that there was also a mini leprechaun in one commercial Looked like Hornswoggle from WWE
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Just saw that myself.
Based on what little we have to go on, this year’s commercials are shaping up to be epic.
I hope so. I was thinking the
too serious ads with Tulo and CarGo were it….glad they are making more
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies-DeadWalking to the NL West crown
Todd and Troy: Because they ARE Rockies.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
speaking of commercials
today the Ghosts radio commercials started in force. They even mention the new ownership and new community partnerships. Hopefully the team stays in Casper – hate to see them go.
Wyoming baseball --- GO GHOSTS!
But I really hope they set up shop in Grand Junction
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
Bazinga!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Jan 21, 2011 5:25 PM MST up reply actions
Helton to play 3 more years
http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_17160178
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies-DeadWalking to the NL West crown
Todd and Troy: Because they ARE Rockies.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
Forget .300
As long has he has a .400 OBP with fewer K’s
Rocktober is not a time of year, it is a religion.
I love Todd but...
Three years seems rather unlikely. I think he gets through this year. Maybe a bench role in ‘12 if he’s OK with that. Otherwise, I dunno.
Go Bruce!
Angels, you goddamn dumb.
People ask me what I do during the winter when there is no baseball. I tell you what I do, I stare out the window and wait for spring.
by The Lodo Magic Man on Jan 21, 2011 4:51 PM MST up reply actions
seeing that Juan Rivera is probably going to the Blue Jays also.
People ask me what I do during the winter when there is no baseball. I tell you what I do, I stare out the window and wait for spring.
by The Lodo Magic Man on Jan 21, 2011 4:53 PM MST up reply actions
Just a throw in to try to offset Vernon Wells huge contract is how I see it.
Angels take on $86 over Vernon’s final 4 years. Holy..
I'm GoRockies!! everybody :P
by CentralCaliRox on Jan 21, 2011 4:54 PM MST up reply actions
hahahahahaha
People ask me what I do during the winter when there is no baseball. I tell you what I do, I stare out the window and wait for spring.
by The Lodo Magic Man on Jan 21, 2011 4:57 PM MST up reply actions
I might have said this prematurely though.
Not sure if Toronto is sending cash to Anaheim.
I'm GoRockies!! everybody :P
by CentralCaliRox on Jan 21, 2011 4:55 PM MST up reply actions
Yeah, I'm not so sure this is a bad deal at all for Angels
Wells OBP’ed 850 last year, with 30 dingers, and has done even better than that in his career. Napoli wasn’t going to play, and Rivera was just sucking up dollars. If Jays are eating salary, I think LAA won this one.
by BostonTransplant on Jan 21, 2011 5:06 PM MST up reply actions
remaining contract:
- 11:$23M, 12:$21M, 13:$21M, 14:$21M
- full no-trade clause
- Wells may opt out of contract after 2011
If Jays are eating salary, I think LAA won this one.
sorry, but no.
People ask me what I do during the winter when there is no baseball. I tell you what I do, I stare out the window and wait for spring.
by The Lodo Magic Man on Jan 21, 2011 5:11 PM MST up reply actions
Jays are sending cash.
And my guess is Anaheim is going to push really hard for Wells to opt out of that deal after 2011. If that happens, and Toronto sends ~$5mil in cash (total guess, I really have no idea) then Anaheim is really only adding an extra $5 million to their payroll than before this trade.
I'm GoRockies!! everybody :P
by CentralCaliRox on Jan 21, 2011 5:22 PM MST up reply actions
What could they possibly offer him to get him to opt out
There is no way he opts out
by purplesocks on Jan 21, 2011 8:06 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Jays are not eating salary
According to a Canadian. This is a pretty bad deal for the Angels. Vernon wells might be fine, but his salary is ridiculous and they have Torii Hunter is already there.
Can we send Matt Macri for Peter Bourjos before the Angels realize they’re being run by 2006?
Anthopoulowned.
People ask me what I do during the winter when there is no baseball. I tell you what I do, I stare out the window and wait for spring.
by The Lodo Magic Man on Jan 21, 2011 5:05 PM MST up reply actions
Looks like the Jays would get Napoli in the deal
As if another catcher is what they needed. My guess is that he plays first/DHs a lot, or they flip him….
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
Bazinga!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Jan 21, 2011 5:07 PM MST up reply actions
We could have beaten that with Alan Johnson.
Just an average guy with exceptional hair. Nothing more, nothing less.
Bear Naked - My thoughts on sports, music, and life.
by Bryan Kilpatrick on Jan 22, 2011 6:01 AM MST up reply actions
Well this was certainly uh
unexpected.
70 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 21, 2011 8:30 PM MST up reply actions
Wonder if we could interest the Jays in, say...EY2 and Wigginton for Napoli...
Actually, given our other moves this winter, Napoli doesn’t really fit now.
Is it ApRil yet?
Any number above zero is way too many days before Pitchers and Catchers Reports
He does if Wigginton gets traded
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 21, 2011 9:56 PM MST up reply actions
Except there would be a lot of moving parts
Replacing Wigginton with Napoli brings us back to the Giambi signing being a bad idea.
Is it ApRil yet?
Any number above zero is way too many days before Pitchers and Catchers Reports
by Mondogarage on Jan 21, 2011 10:01 PM MST up reply actions
I could accept wasting $250k to get better
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 22, 2011 9:10 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
As would I
I, for one, don’t at all think that the $250k guarantee is constricting enough to ensure he’s on the final 25 man roster.
Is it ApRil yet?
Any number above zero is way too many days before Pitchers and Catchers Reports
by Mondogarage on Jan 22, 2011 10:33 AM MST up reply actions
I snatched this from Halo's Heaven
But holy crap is it gold.
The real problem
is what will the MILFs of OC do with out the NAPS
I'm GoRockies!! everybody :P
The real problem
is what will the MILFs of OC do with out the NAPS
I'm GoRockies!! everybody :P
by CentralCaliRox on Jan 21, 2011 5:29 PM MST up reply actions
Just keep him muzzled in Federal courthouses.
That’s not nice.
by 49er16 on Jan 21, 2011 10:56 AM PST
You want nice?
Go to Purple Row.
by Goofus on Jan 21, 2011 12:53 PM PST
So I did. Is nice here?
Well, more importantly – are there any hot dogs Maria didn’t eat?
Nomadic baseball fan, with no agenda other than observation/conversation/mass confusion/mass consumption.
by victor frankenstein on Jan 21, 2011 6:40 PM MST reply actions
Where was this posted?
You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the goddamn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all. ~Earl Weaver
Baseball fans love numbers. They love to swirl them around their mouths like Bordeaux wine. ~Pat Conroy
JFK
never mind I found it
You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the goddamn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all. ~Earl Weaver
Baseball fans love numbers. They love to swirl them around their mouths like Bordeaux wine. ~Pat Conroy
JFK
Soooo...
DRaysBay really seemed exuberant and upbeat after they signed Manny and Damon today.
~94 wins? Whoa. I don’t think these put the Rays over the top at all. I’m thinking mid-80s.
Discuss.
I'm GoRockies!! everybody :P
Not until I get fed.
Nomadic baseball fan, with no agenda other than observation/conversation/mass confusion/mass consumption.
by victor frankenstein on Jan 21, 2011 6:41 PM MST up reply actions
Usually we make visitors slop hogs before we hand these out..
@charliedrysdale
by Charlie77 on Jan 22, 2011 2:33 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Guards against Jennings having rough adjustment periods
And could fulfill my dream of seeing Manny get some time at first base when/if he’s healthy.
I think you might be right about not changing their realistic win total, but if everything goes right with Jennings, Damon, Manny, Dan Johnson and the young pitching, their upside got a lot higher.
Are they trying to
resurrect that 2004 WS champion outfield? On another note I find it funny that Damon’s deal has a bonus based on attendance (assuming this article is correct).
You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the goddamn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all. ~Earl Weaver
Baseball fans love numbers. They love to swirl them around their mouths like Bordeaux wine. ~Pat Conroy
JFK
LOL Manny and Boras
$2m. From $25m last year, to $2m this year.
How the mighty have fallen. Boras was sure he was going to get ManRam the Male Pregnancy Candidate an 8 fig deal.
Is it ApRil yet?
Any number above zero is way too many days before Pitchers and Catchers Reports
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