Wednesday Rockpile: Which PuRPs Will Contribute Most to 2012 Success?
by Jeff Aberle on Oct 26, 2011 6:30 AM MDT
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Baseball fans, it's almost time to hibernate for winter, as the World Series could end as early as tonight. There's still baseball happening in Arizona, Mexico, and the Dominican Republic, but for 99% of fans, there will be a long wait for Spring Training. As snow falls outside my window, spring never seemed so far away.
And yet...while compiling and writing the Fall 2011 PuRPs, this is the message that came to me: Take heart, Rockies fans. Help is on the way, and it will be here soon.
It's true that 2011 may have been a miserable year for Colorado, and 2012 might not be much better in terms of W-L record if a solid pitching staff can't be assembled. However, this 2012 Rockies squad will more than likely include an impressive wave of talent that over the next few years could bring Colorado back to the Fall Classic.
By my count, of the top 10 prospects in the Fall 2011 PuRPs List, 8 of them could contribute to the Rockies as early as this year. The top Purple Row Prospect, 23 year-old LHP Drew Pomeranz will most likely be in the middle of the starting rotation, and #6 Alex White will probably join him despite his awful September. Three PuRPs will compete for a utility position or two in Spring Training -- #20 Tommy Field, #24 Jordan Pacheco, and #30 Hector Gomez -- while #3 Wilin Rosario is the prohibitive favorite for the back-up catching job (and if Chris Iannetta is traded, he could be the starter) and #10 Charlie Blackmon is a leading internal candidate for the 4th outfielder position.
Beyond those seven, all who have been up with the team already, I'm looking for several other top PuRPs to make a 2011 impact. If he continues to hit well (and with power), #8 Tim Wheeler will be another intriguing outfield candidate. Chad Bettis (#4) and Edwar Cabrera (#13), both pitchers who dominated at High A in 2011, will debut in AA next season -- and either could make an impact in the latter half of the year.
A dark horse candidate for the roster as a utility infielder is #9 Josh Rutledge. His glove is already MLB-caliber, and he's coming off a season in which he destroyed California League (High A) pitching in the 2nd half of the year. If Colorado deems that his bat is ready, Rutledge could be up with the big club as well.
Of course, the prospect that is generating the most buzz in terms of making a 2012 impact is 20 year-old 3B Nolan Arenado (#2). He hit another HR in yesterday's AFL game, increasing his league lead in RBIs and putting his stat line (against the top prospects of other teams, mind you -- some of which are much older than him) at .377/.391/.590 with 21 RBIs in 14 games. Arenado has conquered every challenge put in front of him thus far with style and aplomb -- and with no clear front-runner at 3B for the Rockies in 2012, he might rise up and take the position as his own in the spring. I'd like to see him in AA to get a little more seasoning, but if he were to seize the 3B starting job this spring and refuse to relinquish it, I certainly won't complain.
So who will have the biggest impact in 2011? If Arenado somehow makes the team out of Spring Training and shows he belongs, he'll win the ROY in 2012. Much more likely to provide a major impact if he remains healthy is Pomeranz -- who I'm expecting to be a league average starter (2 WAR) this season. Close behind will be White if he can stick in the rotation. Should Iannetta be traded, Rosario will have plenty of opportunity to shine, while Pacheco is pretty likely to get a few hundred PAs in a reserve or platoon role. Blackmon could start if Seth Smith gets dealt this offseason and he's been very impressive in the minors, so he's another potential ROY candidate.
The point I'm making here is that the 2012 Rockies will feature multiple impact rookies (or in White's case, almost rookies) that have a chance to build the next Colorado contender.
Baseball Reference Nugget of the Week (sponsored by this week's cancelled NBA games)
Number of games played in 2011:
5. Dexter Fowler (played in 125, appeared in the field in 122, started 119)
4. Carlos Gonzalez (127, 125, 122)
3. Ty Wigginton (130, 116, 100)
2. Troy Tulowitzki (143, 140, 140)
1. Seth Smith (147, 129, 119)
Yes, that's right -- the perpetually platooned Seth Smith appeared in the most games for Colorado in 2011 and started the 2nd most. Ty Wigginton played in more games than Carlos Gonzalez -- no wonder 2011 was so awful!
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I hate this rule and I don't think it even belongs in the game,
but does it make sense for the Rockies to keep Arenado in the minors until May or June, even if he out-performs all other 3B candidates to keep his arbitration clock from starting? If he turns into the star we are hoping he does, he’s going to get expensive in a hurry. It may make sense to have a extra cost-controlled year to cling onto, maybe use it for leverage for a deal similar to Longoria’s?
In the poll I voted for Pomeranz, because I feel that if he is successful, that will go a long way in determining the teams overall success. For that same reason, I would put White at a close second. If I felt that Arenado was going to be up with the big league club for more than half the year, i would have voted him No. 1.
"My eyes! The goggles do nothing!" - Rainier Wolfcastle
Yes, I think so.
I’d give up a couple months of Arenado on the front end for a whole extra year on the back end. And he could use the extra time next year to get even better in Tulsa/Springs anyway. I can stomach a Wigginton/Stewart platoon for a couple months if need be.
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
I can almost guarantee this is going to happen..
there’s no way Arenado will get thrown into the starting rotation fresh out of A+ and jumpstart his arbitration clock. Ian Stewart will be given every chance to 2011 before then.
Colorado Rockies Players on Twitter
-- odowd apologist --
gonna take the alley -oooop
and go with the Pom as the difference maker….I know , I know, Booooooring…But I think he and the White guy hold the key to piecing together a competitive rotation so our position players continue to develop into RISP machines.
I really think White has a chance to surprise because expectations are fairly low after his rough debut for the Rox. I see plenty of things to be excited about with that kid, I hope we can chalk up the September to 1- Coors field gettin’ in his head, 2- finger issues 3- Pressing 4- non-familiarity with the team and situation….
Purple tinged glasses, wearin’ em, drinking from em’ , wearing them as a cup
The Big Purple Machine will make a believer outta you!
Voted Pom.
And what kind of impact he’ll have, not sure. I think the rotation is going to be the biggest question mark for 2012 even if the Rox did make a big splash for Wright or someone like that.
I wouldn’t really be a big fan of Arenado leaping over AA. Get him some ABs in Spring, absolutely, but I don’t want to rush him onto the big club.
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Oct 26, 2011 8:52 AM MDT reply actions
I wake up secure in the knowledge; that if the Rockies were hosting the world series game tonight; we'd be playing in Milwaukee
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
But they'll probably lose the game in St. Louis tonight too
And yet there will be few cries of, “How could you put a baseball team in SAINT LOUIS???”
by Northsider1964 on Oct 26, 2011 9:00 AM MDT up reply actions
At least Bud doesn't squat on us as much as he does Houston!
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
I see that John Lackey is having TJ surgery.
Once again, another high priced pitcher is having TJ surgery. I don’t consider DLR a high priced pitcher.
Thank you Cookie for many years of service. Hope all goes well with you in your continued career.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
But, why in the hell would you agree to something like this in the contract? Your a pitcher. You don't let stuff like this in there.
But now that he needs elbow surgery, the Red Sox could keep Lackey around for an additional season if they so choose, and at a bargain price. His contract includes a clause that triggers a club option for the league minimum salary if Lackey required surgery during the five years of the deal.
Thank you Cookie for many years of service. Hope all goes well with you in your continued career.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
Actually, the clause might have hurt the team more than the pitcher
Sure Lackey might have to give the Sawxxx a year at a low salary, but in the grand scheme of things he’s still getting a crapload of money. But if the contract caused him to be dishonest with the team about the health of his arm, and that’s why he flat-out sucked this year and cost their “dream team” a postseason appearance, then it was a bad move by the Sawxx to put that clause in his deal.
by Northsider1964 on Oct 26, 2011 9:14 AM MDT up reply actions
He had elbow issues before. Boston was just protecting themselves, and Lackey gets paid either way.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Dammit Aberle
If Arenado somehow makes the team out of Spring Training and shows he belongs, he’ll win the ROY in 2012.
Jinx whoever you want, but leave Arenado alone!
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
by Muzia on Oct 26, 2011 9:13 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Don't worry.
If I remember correctly, it’s not an Official Aberle Guarantee (and therefore destined to fail) until he puts it in bold.
Shoemaker!
You’ve…changed.
I thought 2011 sucked pretty bad. I have nothing to add to that.
by prettyinpurple on Oct 26, 2011 9:21 AM MDT up reply actions
Jinx whoever you want, but leave Arenado alone!
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
I hope Arenado makes the team next year
But if he does, I am keeping my 2012 expectations low. Brandon Belt was going to tear up the NL this year based on his AFL performance, but it didn’t work out that way. Belt will eventually be a good player, but wasn’t ready to be a star. I think they same will hold true for Arenado.
by Northsider1964 on Oct 26, 2011 9:18 AM MDT up reply actions
I went and looked at the AFL stats
and was rather surprised to see that Arenado has actually put up the fourth best line among third basemen. Jeffry Marte, Mike Olt, and Jedd Gyorko (!) have better OPS and overall numbers. Mike Trout and Bryce Harper are both struggling for what it’s worth. Is the AFL generally considered to be a higher offensive environment?
The AFL is an all-offense environment. (And Gyorko is a pretty serious prospect for the Padres, fwiw)
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
I just think that if a kid makes the jump from High-A to the majors
In one fell swoop, he’s likely going to struggle. That doesn’t mean I don’t want Arenado on the team if that’s his best path to becoming an established player, but I would expect 2012 to be a very bumpy ride.
by Northsider1964 on Oct 26, 2011 9:46 AM MDT up reply actions
Exactly. Let's not start rushing guys up
There’s a lot of excitement about prospects lately and that’s a good thing, but when we’re talking about guys at the single-A level, the excitement is 2 or 3 years away. The Rockies basically raided their AAA and AA levels last year in a desperate attempt to be competitive and depressingly it didn’t work. Based on this, it’s time to take a development year for 2012 and not just go raid the next level down.
Bottom line is that the organization took a long-term strategy based on player development and failed to execute. The latin american program has done well but that’s about it. The drafting has been poor and the farm system has not done a good job producing guys ready to compete at the major league level. All that needs to be fixed and it’s likely to take some time.
I want Arenado to succeed but I don’t think bringing him to Coors Field before September or so is the best way to make that happen.
"The game of baseball is made up of many little things. If we do all the little things right, then we'll never have a big thing to worry about" -- Cal Ripken, Sr.
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #3
by RoarFrom112 on Oct 26, 2011 10:02 AM MDT up reply actions
How did we raid AA to be competitive? If anything, we left them down there for the playoff chase and only called up a few guys. Nicasio proved he was ready for MLB.
Friedrich, Wheeler, Gardner…all of these guys would have been called up if we were really “raiding the level”. Instead, we didn’t even see Rosario until the second week of September.
The Ubaldo trade replenished some of our lacking pitching depth and gave us an intermediary level for the start of next year. Pomeranz, White, Rosario, Wheeler, Blackmon, Gardner are all in the plans for the first half of next season. Arenado, Rutledge, Bettis, and Cabrera will be in the second half plans if they play well in Tulsa.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
I don't necessarily want to keep Arenado away from Coors
until September. If the Rockies choose to toss him into the fire sooner, I’m not opposed to that. I’m just saying that if that happens, it’s very unlikely that his numbers will be ROY-caliber. But again, nothing wrong with that as long as the club shows patience and doesn’t bench him for 3 weeks after an ugly 0-for-4 outing.
by Northsider1964 on Oct 26, 2011 10:47 AM MDT up reply actions
One way to look at this if you are in the Rockies front office is to honestly assess whether 2012 is a contending year or not.
Most objective observers would say its not. However, if their pitching develops, 2013 could be better. With that in mind, why not let Arenado try things out in 2012, adjust to MLB pitching, and then be ready to tear things up in 2013 when pitching help matures. Could he be worse than what we saw in 2011? At least if he struggles you can rest assured a foundation is being laid rather than giving at bats to Wigginton. I say give him through the end of May at Tulsa, then bring him up and let him work things out.
"My eyes! The goggles do nothing!" - Rainier Wolfcastle
by BittenAnkles on Oct 26, 2011 10:58 AM MDT up reply actions
This is my present view.
I will wait to see DOD’s moves before I declare that 2012 is not competitive, but its fair to say I won’t be holding my breath. In either case, though, I think we let the kid get his feet wet in AA for a bit, with the plan that as long as he shows OK there he’s going to come on up to Denver in the summertime (barring a switchover to some parallel universe where our incumbent 3b is awesome), and it goes from there.
"a lot of excitement about prospects lately and that’s a good thing"
I think we’re showing the ups and downs of this statement…its great that we’re excited about what appears to be a very strong system…its not so great that we’re so focused on the farm because the big club is booty.
Maybe we could change our title from
…the season from hell to . 2012: Worry not, for help is on the way!
In all things, it is better to hope than despair.
Well, the dude does certainly look excited.
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
He should be, he's from the future..
after we won the World Series.
Colorado Rockies Players on Twitter
-- odowd apologist --
You know. I would think he's happy
but that outfit makes me think he’s celebrating Zombie/Apocalypse World Series
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
I thought he was trying to protect himself from Toxic Asset syndrome? :-P
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
You've been watching too much History channel I think.
Colorado Rockies Players on Twitter
-- odowd apologist --
Actually I think
she’s been talking with PIP too much. Apparently there is a zombie apocalypse going on at Mines right now and the students are banding together with nerf weapons to fend off the monsters.
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
Awesome
Does everyone have their ZombieApocalypse Cliff’s notes?
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
If I'm not mistaken
it’s just a bandanna. One around you’re arm means your human, one around your head means you’re a zombie, around you’re neck means you are a stunned zombie. It was a lot of fun to watch last year.
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
That sounds like a hoot
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
If by History Channel you mean "The Walking Dead'
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
They've been showing "Zombies: A Living History" on the History channel..
It was on right before my favorite show “Top Shot”.
Colorado Rockies Players on Twitter
-- odowd apologist --
I'm pretty sure about this one..
Alex White.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Oct 26, 2011 10:25 AM MDT reply actions
I picked White as well
I do not think he has the upside of Pom or some others, but I expect the org to be very careful with Pom’s innings, whereas White is more of the bulldog type that will be given the ball every 5th day assuming he is not the guy we saw in September (which I won’t let myself believe because it is too depressing). Repeating myself, but I think White can be a Brad Penny type guy if he comes together quickly.
Exactly.
And all of the position players that are listed will not play full-time. I see Rosario as 50%, Arenado coming along mid-season or later, and Blackmon as just a depth OF. Pacheco as utility.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Oct 26, 2011 1:26 PM MDT up reply actions
I picked Other: Edgmer Escalona
By the end of the season stretch run we’ll see a battle between Pomz, White and Arenado for Rockies ROY. However the starting rotation is going to be decimated at the beginning of the season and Escalona will provide a RH stability to bridge the innings until Raffy-time and the rest of the Mattpen.
Colorado Rockies Players on Twitter
-- odowd apologist --
Rex Brothers is more likely to be more valuable than Escalona
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Oct 26, 2011 6:23 PM MDT up reply actions
.............if Brothers were still a PuRP.
Apologies.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Oct 26, 2011 6:24 PM MDT up reply actions
Escalona was almost a PuRP
The writer formerly known as Jabberwocky
READ and LEARN about the business of baseball at Purple Row Academy
Eschew Obfuscation!
I think voters underestimated Escalona and Kurt Yacko..
relievers aren’t “sexy”, but they can provide some value to the team.
Colorado Rockies Players on Twitter
-- odowd apologist --
I voted Blackmon
He’s already show he can hit( well he did for a while and think that will get better), has made some nice plays on defense, is pretty speedy on the bases(no Dex or EY2 but is still fast). Of course this all depends on how he recovers from his foot injury.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
I don't think Blackmon will be a starter going into next year, though.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Oct 26, 2011 10:26 AM MDT up reply actions
The offense certainly looked different with Blackmon in the lineup. His contact skill was awesome during those few weeks he was healthy.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
It did.
And the org seems high on the guy. High enough to trade Seth Smith and hand him the OF spot? Not so sure.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Oct 26, 2011 10:37 AM MDT up reply actions
If he gets healthy, why not give him a shot to see if he can earn a spot in ST.
No offense to EY but I don’t want him in the outfield anymore.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Because we have Seth Smith.
And if we’re trading for Seth Smith, I do not feel comfortable with not adding an OF heading into 2012. Either way, I think Blackmon is just depth for now.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Oct 26, 2011 10:38 AM MDT up reply actions
IMO, Blackmon's defense is better than Smith's.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
SSS and all not withstanding
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
I don’t think that’s even in question right now. Blackmon can play all three OF positions effectively, Smith is below average at the corner.
The question is the power. Can Blackmon provide enough power to stick in an MLB lineup? As a converted pitcher, he’s showing some promise.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
No doubt
Blackmon’s defense profiles to be very good, whereas Smith looks like what he is — a former SEC backkup quarterback stumbling around in space.
The offense, to me, is the worry. He looked (in the limited sample) to be a pretty fair facsimile to Juan Pierre — all contact and slaps but no walks and no power. Here’s where Mondo would come and bang on me for “power developing late” and all that, which is of course possible, but I certainly didn’t see a guy at MLB that was even trying to drive the ball.
In short, I like him as a backup OF in 2012.
I didn't see Blackmon as a slap hitter
I saw him as a guy who will take what the pitcher gives him, and last year that included a fair number of opposite-field singles. But when given a pitch he could turn on, Blackmon didn’t get cheated.
Whether he hits a significant number of HRs at the MLB level remains to be seen, but I think he will be a well-rounded hitter who uses the whole field.
by Northsider1964 on Oct 26, 2011 11:48 AM MDT up reply actions
"Slap hitter" is perjorative and probably unfair
and I know not supported by his minors numbers. But I don’t recall seeing him hit anything that even for a second looked like a home run. A ton of hard liners, sure, and some grounders. But when the ball was elevated, it wasn’t with punch. Just my observations, of course, and I’m no scout. But I didn’t see a guy with real power potential. I saw a guy with a wide strike zone that tries to get the bat on the ball, and is pretty good at that.
Well, except for that time he hit a home run…
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Healthy Chase Utley would like a word
as would Todd Helton, and Carlos Gonzalez. Matt Kemp too. I’m just sayin’
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Till Fangraphs accepts it...
The SABR community will not accept HAR as a legitimate STAT! :-)
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Who cares about those guys?
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Looks around for Amart and ATF...
Not Me.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Ha!
I had completely forgotten about that. I must not have seen it live. So much for my argument. Though, I suppose, Johnny hit a few bombs too.
Jonny out slugged out slugged Ian Stewart In that context.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
I understand your point, and I probably read too much into the Juan Pierre reference
But I cringe when hitting the ball where it’s pitched is equated with being a slap hitter. As much as the Ian Stewarts of the world might cling to that notion, it’s just not the case. I think if Blackmon maintains the approach we saw from him last year, he’ll have a successful career in the bigs. If he starts trying to elevate the ball, I’m less confident.
by Northsider1964 on Oct 26, 2011 1:24 PM MDT up reply actions
I agree
with the caveat that he has to stop reaching and draw some walks. We saw this year that putting the ball in play every single AB, while not as bad as the IS approach, is still not necessarily productive when the 2b is flipping an easy throw to first 3 times a game.
Needs to spoil more and wait for a better pitch
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Yeah I love it when he jumps on a first-pitch fastball
that’s in a good spot. But as you suggest, he also put some pitchers’ pitches into play early in the count, with poor results. If he can be more selectively aggressive early in the count, he’ll draw some walks and be more productive.
by Northsider1964 on Oct 26, 2011 1:56 PM MDT up reply actions
Spoil the pitcher's pitches. Hit the Fat ones . Don't chase far out of the zone.
Simple to say. Hard to do. I like the guys who flick off the close to a strike stuff off and don’t give the ump a chance to call against them. Pitchers count on being able to get that extra six inches all around the strike zone at least part of the time.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Spoil the pitchers' pitch late in the count,
but leave it alone early in the count. Blackmon seemed fairly solid at the former, not as good at the latter.
I like a certain amount of aggressive first-pitch hitting, but Blackmon did it a little too much. He should improve in this area, though, once he gets used to MLB’s rather small strike zone.
by Northsider1964 on Oct 26, 2011 2:09 PM MDT up reply actions
Unlike a lot of people I'd gladly take an 0-2 count if I just showed the pitcher I won't let him go there.
I want a ball over the zone to hit. I’m not taking a borderline pitch. I’m flicking it off to protect the zone integrity and keep the ump from decideing for me. I give the pitcher the choice of trying to make me chase or coming after me. Win Win for me.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
As PHLP said...
Many players of the sixties simply looked hard and early and were great. L don’t mind tha either so long as they aren’t pull happy about.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
I don't see Blackmon as a slap hitter, either
He may not ever hit 20+ homers. But keep in mind that Smith has never done this either. And I don’t think it’s at all unreasonable to think of Blackmon hitting 10-15 homers with a healthy amount of doubles. That, along with 20 steals, very few rally-killing strikeouts, and awesome defense make him a decent regular. Maybe that’s his ceiling and he never quite realizes all of that, but at a minimum, I think he’s a decent platoon guy and good enough to make Seth Smith expendable.
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
by Gasstation1 on Oct 26, 2011 12:03 PM MDT up reply actions
Also of note — he never really showed a platoon split in the majors.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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I don't have anything bad to say about Blackmon.
I missed most of his games because of work. Right now he’s SSS to me. In that context I don’t have the positives I’d like to have.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
He’s your kind of player. Good defensively, smart baserunner, good plate coverage. Won’t strike out, makes productive outs, and focuses on making contact instead of necessarily hitting the ball a long way.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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the SSS numbers are terrible, though.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Oct 26, 2011 1:30 PM MDT up reply actions
I thought pretty typical, though
Had two great weeks or so when he really transformed our offense, then fell in a slump as some video of him started humming around the NL. Then got hurt. A lot of really good hitters start out more or less that way.
by BostonTransplant on Oct 26, 2011 2:09 PM MDT up reply actions
Yeah, there’s really no use reading anything into the numbers.
He looked like he belonged in the Majors, and that’s good enough for now.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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I don't understand something.
Blackmon looked good enough to be in the majors, but Pacheco didn’t? Pacheco was more impressive than Blackmon in his stint.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Oct 26, 2011 6:25 PM MDT up reply actions
When did I ever say that? I said Pacheco’s ceiling isn’t high enough to be an MLB starter, but his bat should be plenty good for an MLB roster in some capacity.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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Not the prototypical corner OF, which may be a problem as well.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Oct 26, 2011 1:32 PM MDT up reply actions
He doesn't have a power swing, but he could
He’s certainly big and strong enough to pound 20 dingers a year, no problem. But he has one of those slightly off balance, leaning out over the plate swings that lefties sometimes have. Not a strong base with which to drive the ball. Not sure why lefties tend to do this. Another guy with a similar swing, at least when he came up, is Jacoby Ellsbury. He moderated the lean a bit this year, and came up huge. I like Blackmon a lot. I frankly think he ought to be the favorite to start over Smith even if we don’t trade Seth (which we should).
by BostonTransplant on Oct 26, 2011 2:12 PM MDT up reply actions
Favorite over Seth?
That’s a tough one for me. I like Blackmon too, maybe not as much as most but I do, but Seth was pretty good this last year.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Oct 26, 2011 6:26 PM MDT up reply actions
I'm high on Blackmon, too.
Good defense, good ability to not strike out, and speed that might be less than Dex’s but still more relevent in that he’s a better base-stealer than Dex. I like him enough to be perfectly fine with trading Seth Smith for another useful piece.
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
by Gasstation1 on Oct 26, 2011 10:35 AM MDT up reply actions
I would have voted for Blackmon
except that Pomeranz’s opportunity is just so much more immediate and glaring. All he has to do is not completely suck, and he makes a positive impact on this rotation.
by Northsider1964 on Oct 26, 2011 10:50 AM MDT up reply actions
I lol'd at this because it just tells us that our
expectations seem to have changed from expecting the best from our players to hoping they just don’t suck.
/2011’d
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Eh, not really what I meant
I am hoping for big things from Pomeranz. But the reality is that of the guys on the list, he has by far the best chance of making a big impact because all he really has to do is outperform the bottom of last year’s rotation. That’s a much lower threshold than, say, beating out Seth Smith for a regular OF spot.
by Northsider1964 on Oct 26, 2011 11:40 AM MDT up reply actions
Oh I know that's not what you meant.
It just struck that might be where we are now. No offense intended.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Rockies problem... No offense!
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
OT: 787 Dreamliner makes maiden voyage
I think this is just a beautiful aircraft.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
picked the easy route, voted for pomeranz
i just don’t see it likely that arenado does much for us in 2012, outside maybe a brett lawrie or desmond jennings style electric but ultimately irrelevant finish to the season. well, jennings was far from irrelevant, but, yeah. point made.
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
It's official WS is PPD
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
OT: Moustaches
In honor of the upcoming Movember, have you guys seen this goalie mask from Anaheim Mighty Duck Jonas Hiller?
Colorado Rockies Players on Twitter
-- odowd apologist --
No such team as the Anaheim Mighty Ducks.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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I think he meant the Anaheim Mighty Sucks....
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Oct 26, 2011 3:58 PM MDT up reply actions
So Arenado hit another HR today...
He’s seriously just toying with AFL pitching.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Need to send him to winter ball to keep him challenged.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Joe Gardner pitching as well
3.0 IP so far, 2H, 1 R
7:1 GO/FO
26 pitches, 18 strikes.
He’s having a very solid AFL as well.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Good deal...
By the way; GO AVS! :-)
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
It’s still early, but you can’t take away the points they’ve already earned. I’m sorta optimistic that a Denver team will actually try and be good for a change.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Pios #2 in the polls
FWIW
"Take the first step in faith. You don't have to see the whole staircase, just take the first step" Dr. MLK Jr.
Go back to 2010.
"No Mission Too Difficult, No Sacrifice Too Great—Duty First" - 1st Infantry Division Motto
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Not as much a hockey fan.
Just pullin’ for the Avs.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Fantastic news on the Nicasio front.
Sounds like he’s making tremendous progress in his recovery
http://www.denverpost.com/rockies/ci_19198861
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
He’s throwing off a mound? Holy…
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
I know!!!
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
That's epic.
My next Rox jersey will be a Nicasio jersey.
Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
Juan Nicasio: the m'f-ing bulldog.
"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"
/it is a new beginning, right?
by The Lodo Magic Man on Oct 26, 2011 3:42 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Yea, and he is ready to bring the violence back to Coors.
Thank you Cookie for many years of service. Hope all goes well with you in your continued career.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
I had sworn off going to another Opening Day at Coors Field
simply because it attracts the drunkest, most disinterested crowd of the year (rivaled only by the annual Cubs series).
But if Nicasio starts the 2012 opener, I’ll definitely be there. That would be something magical.
by Northsider1964 on Oct 26, 2011 3:24 PM MDT up reply actions
okay, so we have Pomeranz, White, Nicasio, Chacin, Hammel as our Opening Day rotation.
I can live with that.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
ages: 23, 23, 24, 25, 29? Egads.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
No kidding.
This could change my outlook for 2012 a lot. Side note: does anybody else think that Hammel rebounds to be more like he was the last two years?
I do! I do!
but I might be biased
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Long on talent, but weak on innings
Gotta add a quality veteran, if you want to sniff 3rd place.
by Northsider1964 on Oct 26, 2011 4:20 PM MDT up reply actions
190 IP from Chacin, 175 from Hammel, hope for 150 IP each from the other 3 with Gardner, Friedrich, Rob Scahill, Veteran Pitcher X, and Veteran Pitcher Y taking up the slack in case on injury.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Like North said...
long on talent, short on likely high-level success in 2012. Sure, a few guys may be consistent studs, but I cannot see that rotation as more than 3rd place unless the offense really explodes from what we’ve seen these past 2 years.
And I still think any reliance on Nicasio is putting too much on him.
But our backup options no longer heavily feature Esmil Rogers, Alan Johnson, or Greg Reynolds.
There’s a lot to be said for that.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
True, but for me to get excited about the rotation above
Pomeranz needs to be ready for full-blown, every 5th day duty, and Chacin and White need to prove they are not walkopotami who throw their 90th pitch in the 4th inning. If and when this happens, this could be an imposing group. Until then, I think they need a quality veteran arm.
And God knows what to expect from Hammel. The light appeared to come on for him after his demotion to the bullpen, but we’ll see. The guy is blessed with a great arm, but too often he looks like he fell out of bed 30 minutes before 1st pitch.
by Northsider1964 on Oct 26, 2011 5:56 PM MDT up reply actions
A quality veteran like Jorge de la Rosa?
Jason Giambi for player-manager in 2012!
How the world will end in 2012: George of the Roses builds a Machine that Pommels everyone with La Violencia during Whiteouts.
Poor Jorge, no one remembers him now :(
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
I’m not counting on DLR being effective this season, though he certainly fits the bill. If we do surprise next year, he could fill the role of impact trade acquisition (assuming the surgery went okay).
We have a lot of arms to split the starting pitching innings next season, and they all have some upside.
/optimism
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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. . . But you're relying on Nicasio?
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Oct 26, 2011 6:29 PM MDT up reply actions
Nicasio didn't have his entire elbow reconstructed.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Two very different injuries here.
And in the DP story, there was not a single word of Nicasio being ready by Opening Day. I highly doubt he would be anyway. Recently, pitchers have been able to recover from Tommy John surgery pretty well. From a broken neck?
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Oct 26, 2011 6:34 PM MDT up reply actions
He’s throwing off the mound. Less than 3 months after his injury. He’s on a pretty great recovery track right now.
Casey Weathers is a great example of why we should be hesitant on TJ pitchers, especially ones on the wrong side of 30.
I’m not banking on Nicasio, but this is a pretty strong sign he’ll be healthy for next year.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
You included Nicasio in your Opening Day rotation.
Don’t you think that’s a bit optimistic?
Don’t forget all the words we’re hearing on the JDLR front. “ahead of schedule” “elbow feels good”. Same kind of thing here. But recovering from an injury like Nicasio’s, there are other variables you have to consider other than “Nicasio didn’t have his entire elbow reconstructed”.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Oct 26, 2011 6:39 PM MDT up reply actions
I agree
but Nicasio has apparently already gotten over the other variables. He didn’t have to rebuild arm strength and the only thing he might have to do is refine his motion. JDLR is “ahead of schedule” but I wasn’t expecting to see him pitch in the Majors until late June early July so if he is “ahead of schedule” we might see him in May. He isn’t throwing yet and he definitely isn’t pitching, whereas Nicasio is acting like any of the other pitchers and will be throwing simulated games this winter. I think Nicasio could well be on the opening day roster whereas we will have to wait a little for DLR (who I still expect to make a large impact with the team if he pitches with consistency and finds the strike zone [same could be said for all other expected pitchers on the OD roster]).
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
he's barely throwing off a mound right now.
And I would consider that VERY light toss or probably just working on his motion. I still don’t see him being ready in time for opening day, no way.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Oct 26, 2011 6:48 PM MDT up reply actions
I think it will be a little easier
for Nicasio to come back than an older DLR. If DLR has any issues during his recovery he can have major setbacks.
A broken neck is obviously serious but he seems to be moving along much faster than even his doctors expected. I think it’s reasonable to think Nic will be back before DLR with less likelihood of something going wrong.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Age has little to do with this.
Can’t really compare a neck injury and an elbow injury like this.
The fact that it is a more serious injury should imply that there is a higher chance of something going wrong during recovery.. is there not?
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Oct 26, 2011 6:52 PM MDT up reply actions
Not necessarily.
Being older does make recovery a bit harder. You’ll learn this when you get older, grasshopper :)
Breaks, be they neck or not, often heal better than than tendons etc. He’s had surgery and seems to be making fantastic progress.
He’s got some serious work ahead of him no doubt, but it sounds like he’s out of the danger zone.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
??????!?!?!?!?
He’s not out of the danger zone yet. If you mean danger zone by life-threatening zone, then yea he’s out of that. But baseball-wise, he’s BARELY entering that.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Oct 26, 2011 6:57 PM MDT up reply actions
and yet he's throwing off a mound
He’s obviously been cleared for baseball activities.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Yes, he's out of the life threatening danger zone
He’s throwing off the mound. I don’t think he took this step without passing a series of tests that his doctor’s approved.
One question mark and one exclamation point would have sufficed :P
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Honestly, I feel like they'll both be back around mid-May.
I’ve always had that opinion. Both pitchers are healing well, but the organization isn’t going to rush either of them.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Oct 26, 2011 7:04 PM MDT up reply actions
Sure it’s optimistic, it’s October.
Then again, Nicasio throwing off the mound in October wasn’t on anyone’s radar back in July.
With DLR, we have to hope he can relearn how to pitch with a brand new tendon in his elbow. that’s a big leap.
With Nicasio, the big hurdle was flexibility and ability to pitch from the mound again. We took a great step towards that this week. The rest is minimal by comparison.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
There is more to consider than just that with Nicasio.
How is he going to react to pitching 100% in a game again? What about a new motion? It’s a traumatizing injury, you seem to neglect that fact.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Oct 26, 2011 6:50 PM MDT up reply actions
Agreed on all points.
But from a physical standpoint, his pitching on the mound within 3 months is a huge hurdle. There’s plenty of time for him to figure out the rest.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
It was very ambiguous.
“pitching from a mound”. What does that mean? How hard is he throwing, how is his neck rotating? We know VERY little details, let’s not be hasty and jump to conclusions, likeeee… he’ll be ready for opening day.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Oct 26, 2011 6:53 PM MDT up reply actions
He's not neglecting that at all
he’s saying that based on what we know right now we can expect Nicasio to be ready to pitch in ST. What we also know is that he wants to pitch, he came back from a neck injury in two months, so his metal makeup is pretty good but we will have to wait and see how he is in a game.
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
We still know very little.
The neck injury is not fully recovered yet. How do we know his mental makeup will be good in a game?
We won’t know anything until we see him actually pitch 100%. Then we can make judgments.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Oct 26, 2011 6:54 PM MDT up reply actions
I'd have thought his neck injury is pretty well recovered
Bone heals quickly and strongly. He’s an athletic young man and will have had the best medical care. I don’t know, but I doubt a healed verterbra will have a negative effect on the pitching motion.
So, he should train well and actively, following doctor’s advice, and once he’s more or less back on track, we’ll get an idea of how much of an effect the mental side will have. Until then, we can be cheered by his good and steady progress.
Breaking a bone in the neck is serious because of the very real danger at and shortly after the moment of injury of paralysis or death. If these things DON’T occur, and the injury heals, it shouldn’t be any “worse” than breaking a finger, or a collarbone, or a tibia or whatever.
I wouldn't be so certain about him healing back to normal.
He had plate placed permanently in his neck. The vertebra he fractured was at the base of the scull (C1), so depending on how the plate was attached, there could be significant range of motion loss.
I wouldn’t be surprised at all if there are significant modifications to his pitching motion. I am hoping for the best though.
"My eyes! The goggles do nothing!" - Rainier Wolfcastle
by BittenAnkles on Oct 27, 2011 9:33 AM MDT up reply actions
Given how extreme the pitching motion generally is, I'm still concerned but
at this point, I’m treating it as just a normal broken bone recovery process. I’m not necessarily thinking he’ll be ready for opening day but that it’s not too unreasonable to think we could get a significant amount of good innings from him.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
My biggest concern is that
between being okay with this and the emerging sentiment that it may just make sense to break camp with Stewart again – we’re basically arriving at the old conclusion of ‘we don’t need to make a major move and just need time to let things gel’
I’m on board with letting Stewart start the year and then passing the torch to Arenado or whatever, and I get that we somehow seem to have a lot of arms all of a sudden for the rotation, but we should still do something – not necessarily for the sake of doing something, but more so because we’ve been down this road before…
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
by Resolution on Oct 26, 2011 6:01 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
This x1000
I want to be realistic about next year, but some effort needs to be made to improve the roster. I don’t want to reach a point where the Rockies just say, “Oh what the hell – Spilly, EY, the whole gang – just come on back for one more year and let’s hope something good happens.”
by Northsider1964 on Oct 26, 2011 6:58 PM MDT up reply actions
Makes me think
that if we are okay with Stewart starting the year at 3b (which granted we all aren’t), and we have enough arms, we should attempt to improve the roster elsewhere…. like 2b…
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
We don't have enough arms
At least not in terms of starting pitcher innings. I’m not crazy about the idea of running Stewart out there again next year. But if it’s done as part of an overall plan to improve the team in other areas, it could work. Pitching would be my #1 target, followed by some bench players that can actually be used in the field, are able to play 2 days in a row, and whose primary contribution to the team isn’t posting talk show videos on YouTube.
by Northsider1964 on Oct 26, 2011 9:16 PM MDT up reply actions
Ben Zobrist!
The Rays always trade thier studs early, before thier contracts run out, because they can’t afford them and constantly need to reload.
Give ‘em Rosario and Rutledge plus Seth Smith. They need the catching prospect that’s (at least somewhat) ready to play now, Rutledge backfills thier middle infeild with some new upside blood that isn’t too far away, and Smith replaces at least some of Zobrist’s production in the short run with a low-cost contract. I think they bite on that. If not, add an arm like Cabrerra (or Friedrich if you could talk ’em into it).
Would Tampa do that? Would we be ok with that? Rosario has always been a “meh” sort of prospect to me. I get the upside, but I just haven’t been able to buy-in completely on him. It’d suck to lose Rutledge, but we might look back on this as the “sell high” point with him. Seth Smith is fairly replaceable with a Blackmon/Gomes(-like) platoon. Young arms are crapshoots. We get a serious/proven 2B upgrade on an affordable contract for the next two years.
Thoughts?
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
Tampa would do that in a heartbeat (I hope)
I would not however because Zobrist, to me, is more of a utility guy. He has a decent OBP and SLG but I would see him as more of a utility guy who would play second base for us.
Rosario is only 22 with a lot of power. He obviously has a lot to learn behind the plate and he needs more patience at the plate but I think both will come. Rutlage I think will be at Zobrist level offensively with a better glove in 1, maybe 2, years so this would be getting rid of him for an older guy who’s about to be on the back side of his career.
I guess what I’m saying is that I don’t see Zobrist as a clear upgrade for the people you are suggesting we trade for him. If they were to want Pacheco to catch, or Fredrich, Smith if we truly think Blackmon/Wheeler are ready to take his spot, then I would consider it but not for some of the top PURPS.
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
I think you're selling Zobrist a bit short
He’s a switch-hitting, clean-up hitting, everyday starter for a playoff team, not a utility guy. He hits 20+ HRs from the middle infield and finished in the top-10 MVP voting just two years ago. I might be OVER selling him, but he is definitely not a utility guy. If Rutledge turns into Zobrist offensively within 2 years, we are in freakin’ awesome shape.
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
Zobrist is worth it on defense alone
and that contract is awesome – the Rays would have to be wowed to really deal him…
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
The Rays have Zobrist for cheap through 2014 (I believe)
He’s not going anywhere.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
the contract
has options for 2014 and 2015 at 7 and 7.5 mill. Zobrist would def be someone I’d advocate trading for – and if I were the Rays, I probably wouldn’t deal him unless the package was awesome….Though I’m still hopeful the Rays are exploitable due to their payroll…
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
Look at us, wanting to exploit an AL East team due to payroll
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Oct 27, 2011 12:14 PM MDT up reply actions
Role reversal!!!!
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
who was it that said Nicasio wasn't even playing catch yet?
yeah. . .
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Oct 26, 2011 6:27 PM MDT up reply actions
What if Stewart figures it all out
Unlikely I know. But if he does and sustains it for several years, could Arenado ultimately move to 1b since he doesn’t seem to be as fluid at 3b
Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field? ~Jim Bouton, 1988
by WalkerFan33 on Oct 26, 2011 2:51 PM MDT via mobile reply actions
That's what would happen.
Best case scenario for sure.
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
I don't know if anyone has welcomed you to PR or not
but seeing as you joined in May I would like welcome you and say that I love your picture.
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
Thanks!
It’s an awesome site. I didn’t sign up until May, but I’ve been reading/lurking for a year or so.
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
I second the welcome
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
absolutely
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Oct 26, 2011 3:04 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
or 2nd even.
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Oct 26, 2011 3:06 PM MDT up reply actions
The thought of this...
… of a “figured it out” version of Ian Stewart, along with Nolan Arenado, surrounding Cargo and Tulo in our line-up makes me very happy. This is what I want for Christmas.
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
by Gasstation1 on Oct 26, 2011 3:10 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
JFK's Quote of the Day:
“To me playing third base and left field and moving all over the place, it doesn’t bother me because I still have to grab that bat and hit no matter where I play.” ~Albert Pujols
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
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