Thursday Rockpile: Rockies could make mint by mining Miami
Roy Oswalt seems to be the Rockies primary target du jour, as the trade market continues to develop. Like Jeff Aberle indicated yesterday, despite his agents claim that the Rockies "have a shot," Oswalt seems unlikely to ultimately accept the Rockies bid. In fact, that very wording leaves me even more pessimistic that the pitcher has much intention of signing with Colorado. Until I'm proven wrong, I'll think this is a case of an agent and a player using the Rockies interest as leverage to up the bidding from other suitors.
One of those other suitors happens to be the Miami Marlins, who continue to be truly aggressive in their off-season pursuits, having made offers to Albert Pujols, Jose Reyes and Mark Buehrle already. The situation there is interesting to follow, as should Oswalt, Buehrle or C.J. Wilson sign with Miami or even Pujols or Reyes, Rockies targets Ricky Nolasco and Anibal Sanchez will become much more expendable. As it stands, however, the one pitcher most clearly on the outs with the Fish is Chris Volstad, who I've already indicated is the type of young undervalued pitcher that the Rockies should be targeting.
That said, though, with off season dreams dancing like sugar plums before us, why shouldn't the Rockies be able to trade for both Nolasco and Volstad? That would fill the veteran rotation void with Nolasco and give insurance against a Juan Nicasio setback with a young pitcher with plenty of upside in Volstad, all at a cost in salary of less than the $30 million it could take to sign Oswalt for two seasons (Nolasco's due $20.5 million over the next two years, Volstad's just entering his arbitration seasons.) As the non-tender deadline approaches, Volstad's market will develop, but he shouldn't come at the cost in prospects a more established pitcher like Nolasco would. Both Nolasco (as mentioned here) and Volstad are examples of the types of solid players that some teams will get impatient with after down seasons, and as such they are classic buy low opportunities. The same could be said of the Rockies other primary trade target of the season, Martin Prado, which added to Nolasco and the team's pursuits of Michael Young and Wandy Rodriguez over the past year show a distinct value mining pattern to the Rockies trade targets.
The Oswalt pursuit further illuminates one thing that's become clear, that the Rockies do have one eight digit salary to hand out this winter and still feel comfortable filling other team needs. The estimate Troy Renck gives in the first link above of two years for $30 million would fall into the same salary tier with an acquisition of Rodriguez from the Astros or David Wright from the Mets. This could be before the potential added savings in the form of a Huston Street trade are factored in, or the highly unlikely dump of Ty Wigginton and his salary on some unsuspecting chump.
***
With a Street trade, the Rockies are looking to acquire an MLB ready position player, and given interest from Toronto and Boston, they might be able to pull it off. I'm dreaming of Moises Sierra, a toolsy right handed hitting outfielder in the Toronto system from the Dominican that clicked in 2011, hitting 18 home runs for the New Hampshire Fisher Cats. Given the Rockies penchant for searching for talented players that teams have grown tired of, a Travis Snider for Street trade actually makes a lot of sense if it weren't that Snider was somewhat redundant to Seth Smith. Of course, if Smith gets moved in a Prado deal, that one issue clears up.
***
Speaking of left handed hitting outfielders, the Rockies have agreed to terms with former Twins minor leaguer Brandon Roberts, who would seem to fit as AAA depth at the moment. There's a bit of eye-rolling that goes on with minor league free agency signings like this, but they don't cost anything, not even the roster spot a Rule 5 selection would take, and there's often a fairly substantial upside if the team lands on the right player. Players like Carlos Pena, Andres Torres and Ryan Roberts all broke out after signing minor league free agent contracts.
***
Nolan Arenado was named the Arizona Fall League's Most Valuable Player yesterday, he becomes the first ever Rockies player so honored. The Rockies plan now has for Arenado to compete for a roster spot next Spring. Given Arenado's skills and learning curve to date, people should really stop thinking that there's no chance of this happening, and that if it does that it won't be a good thing. I'd say it's still less than 50% but we're probably in the 1 in 4 or even 1 in 3 odds area right now that he wins the Opening Day third base job, and if he does, the Rockies are in a very good spot for 2012. In addition to clearing up the third base quagmire, Arenado living up to his potential could make it easier to carry dead weight at second.
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If I understand this correctly,
Theo has declared war on the Red Sox.
Great.
http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2011/11/17/2568356/dale-sveum-cubs-manager-offer
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Where do you get that?
I didn’t see the Red Sox mentioned in that article.
look again
He’s been a major league coach since 2004, when he was the 3B coach for the world champion Red Sox, and a Brewers coach since 2006.
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by Andrew Martin on Nov 17, 2011 9:19 AM MST up reply actions
Didn't say it did
That’s where it talks about Boston though.
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by Andrew Martin on Nov 17, 2011 9:24 AM MST up reply actions
Step 1: Theo is forced to get rid of Francona.
Step 2: Theo starts looking for a manager to replace Francona in Boston.
Step 3: Theo goes to Chicago.
Step 4: Cherington takes Theo’s list and continues looking for a manager.
Step 5: Theo fires Quade.
Step 6: Theo takes his list and starts looking for a manager.
Step 7: Cherington calls back one guy for second interview with Red Sox: Dale Sveum.
Step 8: Theo hires Dale Sveum.
Unfortunately, I am herring that the Red Sox ownership didn’t like Sveum, so there weren’t competing offers. There could have been though. I am sure Theo knew it.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 9:20 AM MST up reply actions
I was unaware of #7.
I’ll be happy to hear about any organization declaring war on the Red Sox, I just didn’t see much indication that that was happening.
This article does;t say anything more than that they hired Sveum.
The rest of it comes from following the rest of the managerial searches.
But, I don’t doubt that Theo knew exactly what he was doing.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 9:27 AM MST up reply actions
Also,
I think that Arenado being MVP of the AFL is premature. The AFL isn’t even over until Saturday. The news of this seemed to be generate by a Casey Weathers tweet that was considered the truth by Rizzo, but actually was not.
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To support this:
You think that that would have been mentioned here: http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/events/afl/index.jsp
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 7:46 AM MST up reply actions
No one else has received the attention Arenado has this AFL season..
he has become the MVP whether he he receives an actual award or not.
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This is correct.
I think hat this is what Weathers was saying with this tweet. Nevertheless, it doesn’t make a report that he was named the MVP true. Although there is a good chance that he will be named MVP on Saturday.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 8:38 AM MST up reply actions
That's not the MVP, it's a Sportsmanship Award..
the award has been given annually since ’04 to the player who best exemplifies unselfishness, hard work and leadership. The six were chosen for those qualities — which Stenson brought to the ballpark every day — rather than their statistics or on-field performances.
Statistically he is the MVP:
leads AFL with 46 hits, second with 17 extra-base hits, tied for league lead with 11 doubles, second with 75 total bases, third with a .404 average, tied for third with six home runs and fifth with a .658 slugging percentage … week four player-of-the-week after batting .429 (9-for-21) with 3 doubles, 3 home runs, 5 RBI and 4 runs scored in five
games …
Has hit safely in 25 of his 27 games with at least one RBI in 18 games …
only player in AFL with multiple four-hit games
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I didn't say it was. The MVP is the Joe Black Award, I think.
The MVP will also be given on Saturday if they do it as they have traditionally done.
I am not arguing that he doesn’t deserve the MVP. I’m just noting that he has not been named the MVP yet. I think most people like to make sure that they are reporting accurate information. SInce he has not yet been named MVP, the report that he was named MVP is inaccurate, even if he does win it.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 8:49 AM MST up reply actions
My point, is that he doesn't need a silly trophy..
He is the AFL MVP.
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I agree with this.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 9:03 AM MST up reply actions
nor stinkin' badges
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by Andrew Martin on Nov 17, 2011 9:05 AM MST up reply actions
Is it just me or is spending $15 mil a year on a pitcher who has a
bad back and is past his prime kinda a dumb idea
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
I just think of the things we could have for $15 mil a year
and I get pissed at the idea…
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 8:02 AM MST up reply actions
A lot of the money spent on starting pitching is over-the-top crazy
But the problem is, that’s how the market is set. So you if don’t want to overpay, your own guys damn well better pan out.
Somebody will roll the dice on Oswalt, and it most likely won’t be the Rockies. But the Rockies are going to overpay for some starting pitching this winter, either in salary or in trade. The alternative is to slug it out with the Padres for 4th place, again.
by Northsider1964 on Nov 17, 2011 8:12 AM MST up reply actions
I would love to have Oswalt for two years..
He would provide a bridge to the development of our younger pitching prospects. Even in an injured year he started 26 games, only Hammel (27) and Chacin (31) started more in Colorado and his FIP (3.44) was near his career FIP (3.35).
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And he's only a year removed
From being great down the stretch for the Phillies in 2010. So I would love to have him too, I just don’t see the Rockies being the top bidder.
by Northsider1964 on Nov 17, 2011 8:57 AM MST up reply actions
Aaron Cook and Ubaldo's contracts are off the books for 2012..
that’s at least $13 million that the Rockies can spend on a pitcher.
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Yeah it could happen
And I’ll be excited if it does. But I just don’t think he’ll end up here.
by Northsider1964 on Nov 17, 2011 9:54 AM MST up reply actions
Hello, friends. This is Jim Nantz Franchise 26. I haven’t been posting much around here lately, but I found some time to bless the mic and do a little roster critiquing in a thing I wrote for you all. Please do enjoy.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
good piece
But 2012 will be a disaster of A year if a Padres middle infielder is on our rotation depth chart
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by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 17, 2011 9:21 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
Dammit,
I need to fire his editor.
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In the article you mention the strength of the bullpen..
does that mean you’re against the idea of trading Huston Street?
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I think I touched on that in the article, but yeah, I don’t think we should deal Huston, because I don’t think we’re highly likely to replace his production with the organizational alternatives. Plus, I like him and want him to have a good year. But I understand that the arguments for moving him are compelling as well.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
We can send quite a few guys our there to put up a 1.217 WHIP.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 9:34 AM MST up reply actions
I think that’s more hope than expectation when you’re talking about the Escalona-Weathers-Scahill group of upper-level minor leaguers who have a shot at breaking with the big club.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
Escalona had a nice run last season..
I would like to see how he performs in smaller innings where he can just rear back and fire. The only thing about him that wasn’t impressive was his k/9 (4.91), but I think it was hurt by the length of innings he pitched. Typically in the minors he was called into the game dring high leverage situations late in the game and his k/9 was a lot higher (+9.0).
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Good piece
Outside of shortstop, right field, and center field (Dexter Fowler’s domain after a hot second half), there are no definite slots filled for the Opening Day lineup in 2012.
I would argue first is pretty well covered too, although the amount of production may still be up for debate.
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JFK
PR Cares is going to donate money today to the Mike Coolbaugh Foundation..
If someone would like to be sponsored to play in the golf tournament please respond to this post within the next hour.
Fifth annual Mike Coolbaugh Memorial Tournament gets under way at noon at Canyon Springs Golf Course in San Antonio. Cost is $125 per player for the shotgun start, which includes, golf, lunch (Las Palapas) and dinner (Outback Steakhouse). Register at: www.coolbaughmemorial.com.
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I interrupt this Martin Prado debate, to announce a donation by Purple Row Cares:
Along with the funds I sent this email:
I just sent a donation of $125 from the baseball fans at Purplerow.com, we’re all huge Colorado Rockies fans and we raised money over the summer auctioning off augraphed merchandise by Troy Tulowitzki and Carlos Gonzalez so we could give to this cause. I wish we could give more.
I also want to thank everyone who bid on the merchandise this summer. Every bid added to the amount we were able to give to the Coolbaugh family and their charity which helps support young widows and their families.
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this is very cool
please do this again (ball auction). I bid but didn’t win and I want another shot.
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by El Paso Jeff on Nov 17, 2011 2:44 PM MST up reply actions
Follow this link
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and buy stuff. Proceeds go to the charity of our choice
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Thanks for doing this Charlie77
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So we like Youk who is due 12 million this year
and has a 13 million dollar option next year, I would much rather have Youk and Prado for around 16 million than Oswalt. What would it take to get both? Assuming Street and maybe one of Story/Herrera and an arm for youk, Smith and Wheeler for Prado and a young arm? See if the Marlins post FA signings will move Volstad for say Gardner, EY2 and a low A pitcher.
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
We like Youk?
No thanks.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 8:39 AM MST up reply actions
As a Super Wiggy I would love Youk
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Gonna need some elaboration on that
Youkilis is a damn fine ballplayer, and better than any 3B candidate we’re talking about.
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by Andrew Martin on Nov 17, 2011 8:49 AM MST up reply actions
Purple Row Reasoning: He played for the Red Sox; ergo, he’s a douchebag. Do I have that right?
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
Petro usually doesn't go that route
But I’ll be honest, that’s one of my 2 pauses, the other being the fact that he’s missed a decent amount of time over the past 2 seasons
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by Andrew Martin on Nov 17, 2011 8:53 AM MST up reply actions
(and by it’s my pause, I mean I don’t wanna deal with THAT lashback)
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by Andrew Martin on Nov 17, 2011 8:54 AM MST up reply actions
I agree abou the injuries but Aramis Ramirez, Martin Prado and David Wright have had
their own injury issues
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Prado is 1/3 of the cost.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 8:58 AM MST up reply actions
Prado has an excellent 2B wOBA
at third it isn’t quite as impressive, why not get both? Maybe we can even dump Wiggy on the Sox
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Sure. But that means we are going to need to trade away a lot of prospects and spend a lot of money. I only want to do that if we are going to be certain contenders. With just those two, we still have an uncertain rotation and a hole in the OF that will also need to be filled.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 9:04 AM MST up reply actions
In my head Blackmon and a leftie killer OF can nail down the LF spot fine
Our rotation couldn’t be that much worse than 07, our bullpen is deep and among the best in the league. We have top 10 MLB hitters at 1B(maybe) SS, RF, solidly above average hitters at CF, C adding Prado and Youklis would make a bench of Field/Herrera/Nelson, Giambi, Pacheco, Rosario and RH OF(Andruw Jones would be ideal, I could live with Gomes) I think that is a team that can win the NL West. The Cardinals just went to the WS in a Season where Kyle Lohse, Jake Westbrook, and Kyle Mcclellan were among their leaders in innings pitched
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Blackmon swings at everything remember
we were still waiting for that to catch up to him when he got hurt
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 9:30 AM MST up reply actions
If our lineup was
C Iannetta
1B Todd/Giambi
2B Prado
3B Youk
SS Tulo
RF Gonzalez
CF Fowler
then Charlie can have all the growing pains he needs to, especially if we could get Andruw Jones
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
So has Tulo
everybody gets injured
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 8:58 AM MST up reply actions
Youk will be 33 on opening day
and Injury problems don’t get better with age.
That said, it’d give me pause. Doesn’t nix the appeal to me.
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by Andrew Martin on Nov 17, 2011 9:01 AM MST up reply actions
Youk is one month older than Adrian Beltre, one year older than Aramis
Beltre is about to enter the second year of a 6 year contract, Aramis definite gets 3/45 might get 5/60 getting a legit 380 wOBA 3B for about what we were paying aaron cook who has a career 146 wRC+ against LHP sounds awesome to me.
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Concur.
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by Andrew Martin on Nov 17, 2011 9:15 AM MST up reply actions
Agree I am wondering if the career 28.3 UZR that he doesn't care for or the career .383 wOBA
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Wow, that's nearly Todd Helton career numbers..
.411 WoBA
24.7 UZR
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that uzr isn't accurate
The table you pulled that from doesn’t include 1997-2001. His career fielding is over 55 runs.
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by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 17, 2011 9:33 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
Two things:
1) $13 million for one year if we don’t pick up the option. Is 2012 the year in which this type of an expenditure is worth it? We also think that it is going to be one year because we have Arenado coming down the pike.
2) Although he was still much better this year than anything we have had at 3B for a long time, he suffered a significant drop off and seems to be aging pretty rapidly. I’d hate to be paying $13 million for a middle-of-the-road glove and a 110–120 OPS+ unless that 110–120 was what was going to push us over the top. At this point, we need a few more pieces to show that that money would be worth it, and I don;t see us getting all of those pieces.
So, I’m not interested.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 8:57 AM MST up reply actions
Thats the thing though
we can nit pick every dad gum FA out there about being old or dropping off, but the truth is that the FA’s who aren’t old and who haven’t dropped off lately are Prince Fielder Jose Reyes and Albert Pujols and we aren’t getting those. So we have to take a chance sooner or later though
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by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 9:00 AM MST up reply actions
exactly
Even Fielder has big flaws.
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by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 17, 2011 9:02 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
Somehow there's a man out there in his prime who is even less positionally versatile than EYJ
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by Andrew Martin on Nov 17, 2011 9:05 AM MST up reply actions
Except EY2 can't play DH, and Prince would thrive there.
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so does Reyes, and Pujols had a pretty big drop himself
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
He's not an FA. But I'm voting for later.
Because we don’t just need a 3B. If we can fill 2B, OF, and fix up the rotation, and we still have something to trade for Youk, then I’d take the risk. But I don’t think that all of those things are going to happen.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 9:02 AM MST up reply actions
Good points
If I may,
1) I really, really wish we had a clearer image on whether the FO really thinks they’re competing in 2012 or building in 2012. If the former, then costs be damned and let’s go for it. If the latter, you’re absolutely right. Don’t waste the fundage.
2) The dropoff is concerning, but he was still a 126 wRC+ with a .373 OBP, and that’s after a career-low .296 BABIP – that is to say, his batting average SHOULD rebound, especially in this particular park. There’s the risk of continued decline, but there’s risk in anything, honestly.
But overall, yeah, if we get the 1 guy and consider the offseason finished, it’d be a poor choice.
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by Andrew Martin on Nov 17, 2011 9:04 AM MST up reply actions
And since this would also need to be a trade,
I think it’s difficult to say that we would:
1) Trade for Youk.
2) Trade for Prado.
3) Sign an everyday OF.
4) Sign or trade for rotation help.
Youk is the least long-term solution for these four moves. I think he comes last, if at all.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 9:07 AM MST up reply actions
Yes trade for Youk, our tram doesn't have enough punchable faces.
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by The Lodo Magic Man on Nov 17, 2011 9:11 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
I like the idea of us having a tram.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 9:12 AM MST up reply actions
Isn't Youk like a big ass hole?
Like in the clubhouse? Any articles or conspiracy theory articles on the guy?
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 9:12 AM MST up reply actions
We need one or two of those
There are too many nice guys on the team.
Nice guys finish next to last.
yeah this team needs an F’IN attitude/swagger, 2011 they seemed like a bunch of pussies scared of the expectations
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 9:15 AM MST up reply actions
Tulo would like a word
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by Andrew Martin on Nov 17, 2011 9:16 AM MST up reply actions
yeah but I’m at work and am lazy
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by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 9:17 AM MST up reply actions
ah. well, I've never heard that.
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by Andrew Martin on Nov 17, 2011 9:19 AM MST up reply actions
and why are we in a recession?
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because of Wall Street
apparently
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 9:29 AM MST up reply actions
this isn't about his personality, but it's funny:
During Youk’s rookie season of 2004, Boston manager Terry Francona was asked about the Greek God of Walks label. His response was, “I’ve seen him in the shower, and I wouldn’t call him the Greek god of anything.”
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1115795/index.htm
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.
no he is not an asshole
MOZGOD Enthusiast Member 71
Original Thugget Loyalists Member 71
@Garrett_Olsen
by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 12:02 PM MST up reply actions
Yes trade for Youk, our team doesn't have enough punchable faces.
"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"
/it is a new beginning, right?
by The Lodo Magic Man on Nov 17, 2011 9:11 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
neither does our tram
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
The fingers you have used to type, are too fat.
To order a special typing wand, please mash the keyboard now.
"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"
/it is a new beginning, right?
by The Lodo Magic Man on Nov 17, 2011 9:18 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
Fair points.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Nov 17, 2011 9:31 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
I will say this though,
I guess I’m wrong. We like Youk. I just don’t like Youk. :P
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 9:00 AM MST up reply actions
l just wanted to show others agree ... you were not alone ln the wllderness
In all things, it is better to hope than despair.
You are correct.
I invoke the law of plain ole irrational dislike. Nothing else. Just that.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
But if we trade Street that's only a net payroll increase this year of what? $4M?
"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"
/it is a new beginning, right?
by The Lodo Magic Man on Nov 17, 2011 9:07 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
if we can dump Wiggy that increase is nil
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Youk makes great sense:
1-year commitment
Eases pressure on Arenado
RIGHT-HANDED platoon w/ Helton, perhaps for enough games to keep Helton in decent
shape the whole season. (Giambi can’t do that — weak defense & left-handedness.)
If Youk bounces back from his injury-plagued 2011, exercise the option & use him as the
primary 1B in 2013, by which time Helton really needs to be put in a part-time role.
(Helton becomes Giambi in 2013.)
The guy’s a stud when healthy — consistent Scott Rolen-type production. The Rockies really need someone like that.
It also gives them some leverage in the Prado talks. With Youk at 3B, the need to upgrade offensively at 2B diminishes, and the Rockies can fall back on Herrera/Nelson/Field if Atlanta asks too much for Prado
I have a lot of trouble believing that Youk would take a one-year deal. Or that a one-year deal would be the best offer he could get. But in a world where he would take one year, the Rockies should absolutely make him a priority.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
He’s not an FA.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 9:23 AM MST up reply actions
Man, I’m out of the loop completely. Oops.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
/insert Nebraska joke
Colorado Rockies Players on Twitter
"Baseball is dull only to dull minds." ~ Red Barber
/insert CU’s record
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
by cthabeerman on Nov 17, 2011 12:07 PM MST up reply actions
Boom Roasted.
As a CU alum, this is both hilarious and depressing.
Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 17, 2011 12:18 PM MST up reply actions
/insert corncob
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Nov 17, 2011 12:33 PM MST up reply actions
What does the 'N' on their football helmets stand for?
But Ty Wigginton is an All-Star ?!?!
by DAWNMARIE01 on Nov 17, 2011 12:56 PM MST up reply actions
Nowledge
Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 17, 2011 12:59 PM MST up reply actions
That was always my favorite Nebraska joke.
First heard it from an Econ prof at CU.
But Ty Wigginton is an All-Star ?!?!
Huck the Fuskers
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 1:19 PM MST up reply actions
I'm sad that I no longer have a reason to wear that t-shirt anymore.
But Ty Wigginton is an All-Star ?!?!
But probably less sad about the not having to walk home with that shirt on after a loss…
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
When I was at CU we won every year.
And also had beer at the games.
But Ty Wigginton is an All-Star ?!?!
it was the summer of 69
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Nov 17, 2011 1:40 PM MST up reply actions
Good times.
But you couldn’t sit in the frat-boy section unless you wanted to be pelted by plastic cups with 1/2 in of beer still in them. After the first game we sat by the band from then on.
But Ty Wigginton is an All-Star ?!?!
Colorado’s never won four straight, so you either weren’t a four-year student or graduated a year early.
2001-04 is the only time Colorado had a running total of 3 wins out of 4, unless you go back to the 60s…if your statement is truthful, you’ve pegged yourself at a couple years younger than I. I’ll point out that the Huskers have gone 23-7
in my lifetime. I’ll take it.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
Yeah but they still have to live in Nebraska
I would rather be 7-93
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
I couldn't agree with this more
Nebraska will always be able to make the “scoreboard” argument… CU will always have the Flatirons
Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 17, 2011 2:33 PM MST up reply actions
Im half Buffs half Hawks fan
I can still wear it!
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 1:33 PM MST up reply actions
Send it to me
My alma mater plays them in two weeks.
Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
That's going to be fun...
Should be back in Lincoln for that game.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
Nothing
It’s a label for what is contained in their football helmets.
Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
he is already on a one year deal for 2012 with a club option for 2013
so we have a huge upside reward if he can return to form
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
he's under contract for just 2012
He comes with a one year deal
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 17, 2011 9:24 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
well yes, but its not a player option
So It’s just a one year commitment
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 17, 2011 9:27 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
With a $1 million buyout.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 9:28 AM MST up reply actions
Cot's Contracts confirms that
So from the Rockies’ perspective, a 1-yr commitment at $12 mil, with a $13 mil option year & a $1 mil buyout.
If he bounces back to prior form (see Beltre, Adrian), the $13 mil is a no-brainer and a real bargain. If not, $1 mil is a cheap buyout.
Do it. Offer them Street & Smith (DH material, with Ortiz possibly leaving) & a prospect.
Then we are out of the Prado deal.
And I’d prefer Prado.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 9:33 AM MST up reply actions
But that one-year impact will be meaningless
with a hole in the OF and 2B, and a weak rotation.
Prado is a longer-term solution at a lower cost.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 9:36 AM MST up reply actions
Prado has two years left so does Youk
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
We've got a 3B coming up.
We have nothing at 2B. Plus, the second year for Prado will be a lot cheaper.
The point is really about the holes though. We have too many holes to fill to blow everything on one guy.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 9:40 AM MST up reply actions
Rutledge isn't as close to MLB ready as Arenado?
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
I’ll let you know when he plays a game at 2B. ;)
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 10:53 AM MST up reply actions
nope
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 17, 2011 10:54 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
I would assume both are 2013 targets with potential 2012 september call ups
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Rutledge is a year behind Arenado, I think. DOD isn’t mentioning Arenado in STH conference calls.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 11:02 AM MST up reply actions
I guess it depends on his performance at AA
if both are hitting .340 in June, Chris Nelson had better pack his bags
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Not necessarily.
The difference between Nelson/Herrera and 2010 Prado is HUGE. Prado is a gamble, albeit a smaller one than Youk
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Nov 17, 2011 9:37 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
Seriously?
Are you saying that Youk’s salary being twice Prado’s makes him the higher risk? Cuz as baseball players they aren’t in the same universe. Prado was really bad last year and is a big risk to be the same this year.
by BostonTransplant on Nov 17, 2011 10:06 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
Youk's salary is triPle Prado's
And it’s not like Youk has been very healthy lately either.
But man, that OBP.. Yum
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Nov 17, 2011 11:16 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
Youkilis is a much higher risk...
As mentioned, the contract is for a minimum of $13MM to $4.5MM for Prado…if you include 2013, the disparity is greater, coming in at $25MM v. a max of about $12MM even if Prado has a killer 2012.
Prado’s injury last season was medical rather than of the baseball variety. Even with his DL stint (and a half, got injured with just a game or two left in the regular season) in 2010, he played in 140 games. Prado plays everyday when he’s healthy…and when he’s not healthy, as witnessed by his 2011. He had a surgically-opened wound on his leg that had to be left open and cleaned out daily…and was back playing baseball four weeks later, and back in the big leagues in five weeks.
Martin will be 29, and there’s no evidence that suggests his future is incredibly risky…he’s rather unlikely to reaggravate a staph infection, after all.
Meanwhile, Youk has sat games for these injuries in the past three years: ankle sprain, achilles tendonitis, thumb, hernia, back (non-hernia), oblique, and calf. He’s going to be 33, and he’s played fewer games than Chipper Jones in the past three years. DRS and UZR both suggest his defensive prowess is deteriorating, and it’s pretty easy to point to age and injuries to suggest that this trend will continue.
Now, if you want to talk reward, I’ve no qualms with saying that Youk has the most upside. That should be obvious to everyone.
When you start adding in the cost of trading for him as well, an injured Youkilis is pretty frightening. That said, a healthy Youk will terrify opponents.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
by cthabeerman on Nov 17, 2011 12:46 PM MST up reply actions
youk would only need to provide 5 WAR over 2 seasons to be worth that
chances are very good could provide well over twice that much
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.
Sure...
If he’s healthy. Even if he continues playing at a 120 games/season clip, he’ll provide approximately +3 WAR than he’s getting paid for, with similar production. If he’s healthier, you can probably plug him in at 4.5-5.5 WAR/year at his age, for a top-end of +4-6 WAR over salary.
The worry comes from the chance that Youk’s less healthy, which is a legitimate concern with a player in his mid-30s with an extensive history of injuries.
If Prado’s healthy, the 2.2 WAR is impossible to miss. Coming into his prime, let’s say he’s equal to his best year, best-case scenario, and is a 3.5-4.5 WAR player at 2B/3B (his WAR will actually be higher at 3B because he’s a better defender there and the position adjustments are equal).
There’s plenty of precedent to suggest that a 28-year-old (FYI, I was wrong on his age in my previous post) could exceed those numbers, but I won’t be that optimistic.
His best case scenario is a little better than Youkilis’, coming in at +5-7 WAR for those two years, without factoring in the possibility of a career-best season.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
He'd also be a type A
- with the CBA looking less likely that it will really strip out Type A compensation, this is still important…
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
Type will stick but only for Top FA from what I understand
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
that's what it's looking like
Unless he’s injured or declines rapidly, Youk should be able to maintain that..
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
Froma Cots
4 years/$41.125M (2009-12), plus 2013 club option
signed extension with Boston 1/16/09 (avoided arbitration)
$1M signing bonus
09:$6M, 10:$9.125M, 11:$12M, 12:$12M, 13:$13M club option ($1M buyout)
award bonuses: $50,000 each for All Star, Gold Glove, Silver Slugger, LCS MVP; $0.1M for WS MVP; $0.1M for MVP ($75,000 for 2nd in vote, $50,000 for 3rd)
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
He's got a year left on his contract, with a team option for 2013
as I understand it. So it’s not his choice, unless he has trade veto rights.
And who wouldn’t want out of Boston at the moment?
He doesn't have 10/5 rights yet so it is up to them(it would kind of leave a gaping hole at 3B)
but they have some interest in moving him from what I have heard
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Oh hey, Franchise, he's not a FA just yet
All the best,
Andrew
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by Andrew Martin on Nov 17, 2011 9:26 AM MST up reply actions
I was thinking more..
Trade for Youk, watch him have a good year, go to playoffs, exercise the option, trade him for prospects.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Nov 17, 2011 9:35 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
If he rakes in 2012, then by the deadline in 2013 he can still be moved for value or kept for picks
either way big upside in acquiring him
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
The Helton platoon thing is really big for me
It gives the Rockies options, and I like options.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 17, 2011 9:47 AM MST up reply actions
I will say this.
If you could move Youk to 1B in the Death of Todd scenario, he could work out as a meaningful long-term solution. But, it should not be the first name on our lists. There are too many ifs there (IF Todd sucks, IF Arenado sucks). I’d rather this be the last move we make in a lock to compete rather than the first move that leaves us with holes up and down the lineup.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 9:50 AM MST up reply actions
If Todd and Youk both hit while Arenado tears up AA (therefore blocking him)
It’s a problem I’ll gladly see the Rockies address when we get to it. Youk makes it so we only need two of those players to perform well to be set at both corner infield positions. With SS, two outfield positions, and catcher likely all being average to above average, that closes a lot of holes on this team.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 17, 2011 9:56 AM MST up reply actions
1) Fowler
2) Nelson
3) Cargo
4) Tulo
5) Youkilis
6) Helton
7) Blackmon
8) Ianetta
This is not that promising of a lineup.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 9:58 AM MST up reply actions
Flipping Blackmon and Nelson doesn't make it much better either.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 9:59 AM MST up reply actions
I like
1) Fowler
2) Prado
3) Cargo
4) Tulo
5) FA Outfielder
6) Todd
7) Ian/Nolan
8) Ianetta
Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 17, 2011 10:04 AM MST up reply actions
I'd do this:
1) Fowler
2) Prado
3) Cargo
4) Tulo
5) Youk
6) Todd
7) Blackmon/FA
8) Ianetta
But that hole at the top and bottom of the order is big with just a Youkilis acquisition and a reliance on Todd to have another great year. That’s why Youk is good as the last piece, but not the first or only piece.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 10:07 AM MST up reply actions
Yes
the only way I’d be upset with acquiring Youk would be if it got in the way of getting a 2b and a decent power bat in the OF
Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 17, 2011 10:08 AM MST up reply actions
No
Youkilis means you don’t NEED Todd to have another great year – especially if Arenado comtinues to climb the latter. You can slide him over to 1B in that scenario.
The reason he fits this team well is he provides a strong option at two positions the Rockies either do or may have question mark at.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 17, 2011 10:13 AM MST up reply actions
But he can’t play both positions at the same time.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 10:14 AM MST up reply actions
So when he's not at third
You’re either playing Ian, Nolan, or our wonderful plethora of in-house backup options (Nelson, Scraprerra, Wiggy)
Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 17, 2011 10:16 AM MST up reply actions
If Todd is a problem.
I mean, everything could work perfectly so that the only hole in the lineup is 2B, but I would want a better guarantee than “if everything works perfectly” for prospects and $13–25 million dollars. That’s all.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 10:19 AM MST up reply actions
Agreed
Signing Youk works well if: Todd stays healthy. If Todd doesn’t stay healthy, signing Youk still works if: Arenado can hit with a competent bat at the ML level. That’s a lot of ifs.
Even if it works out perfectly, we still have a problem with the rotation and 2B.
Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 17, 2011 10:23 AM MST up reply actions
And OF.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 10:26 AM MST up reply actions
That too!
I was thinking of the acquisition of Youk in a void – in which case we wouldn’t have to part with Seth, which means (in OOTP terms) we’d only have a slight weakness in the outfield.
Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 17, 2011 10:35 AM MST up reply actions
I will buy everyone on PR a beer
if Seth Smith is with this club next year.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 10:36 AM MST up reply actions
Do I have to buy you a beer
if he gets traded?
Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 17, 2011 10:36 AM MST up reply actions
Todd is secretly one of the bigger problems on this team.
If 2011 was his last year we’d all be salivating over the idea of acquiring Youk to play 1b. Instead we’re paying 5 mill to get ~115 games of high OBP, mediocre slugging at 1b. While the actual cost is certainly fine, the associated cost of preventing us from acquiring better options is problematic..
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
Sadly I think you're right
We can’t effectively plan to replace Todd, but we’re carrying a mediocre at best 1B who’s likely to miss a lot of games. Probably a good thing that it’s happening now and not in 2013 say.
Maybe best-case scenario
is that he has another decent year and then we come up with a full-time option at 1b for 2013 and Helton can replace Giambi though with more starts.
Technically, one of the bigger (emotional) reasons we’re carrying him is to give him a chance to win it all with the team. There’s a very real possibility that the best chance of that is with him as a backup player in 2013 – certainly not the most glorious, but given how much he’s achieved in every other facet I’m sure he can live with it should it occur…
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
79
The combined age of our 1st Baseman to start the year
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 12:19 PM MST up reply actions
sooooo
still young enough to be Moyer’s 3rd child. Sweeeeeeeeeeet.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
I think we all know that
just most of us aren’t willing to admit it
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 12:18 PM MST up reply actions
Oh I totally get it
but part of me does think it’s funny how the Helton issue gets zero attention but yet we’re willing to have entire comment threads devoted to arguing about Giambi and his ‘25th-man-on-the-roster’ roster spot.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
I want to bring up Helton
everyday, but figure I’ll just get yelled at and told to leave. He is the real hamstring to this whole issue. Take his $10 million off the books and let us use that to acuire a really solid hitting 1B and it helps ease the pain of 2nd and 3rd shortfalls. Instead because of our “shortfall” at 1B and lack of depndability from that position, we cannot afford a lack of production from 3rd and 2nd
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 12:28 PM MST up reply actions
Helton is making $4.9M in 2012
You don’t crap on the best player in franchise history just to save $5M.
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by Andrew Martin on Nov 17, 2011 12:30 PM MST up reply actions
it's true
and at that cost he’s making a profit for us.
does McBride have any future at 1b?
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
sure
the sky sox have a vacancy
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by Andrew Martin on Nov 17, 2011 12:33 PM MST up reply actions
burn
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
Lets not forget
he earned his salary last year with his play, and has earned his contract over his career.
I wasn't saying that we should
and I don’t propose we should either, but the lack of produciton at 1st base is hurting us
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 12:33 PM MST up reply actions
I should say
its not typical production you want from 1st base from typical baseball standards that you have a sluggin first baseman
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 12:34 PM MST up reply actions
what lack of production?
He hit over .300, had a good OBP, a SLG that leaves room to be desired, but a good batting line nonetheless. Giambi was quite good in his spelling of Helton.
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by Andrew Martin on Nov 17, 2011 12:34 PM MST up reply actions
Thats awesome
but he played 124 games. Those are great stats for 160 games, but he only does it for 100-120
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 12:35 PM MST up reply actions
Ok, so he played for 100-120
Giambi played a good chunk of the remainder and put up a good batting line. Colorado got a .851 OPS out of 1B last season. That’s 6th in the majors. I’m totally OK with that.
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by Andrew Martin on Nov 17, 2011 12:40 PM MST up reply actions
I am too
but we are depending on the combined age of 79. Not exactly comforting to me. Take out Giambi game in Philly and he bats .246 with 10 HRs and 25 RBis
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 12:44 PM MST up reply actions
That's a bit of a misleading statement
Take out that one game in Philly and Giambi bats .262/.358/.608, .965 OPS.
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by Andrew Martin on Nov 17, 2011 12:48 PM MST up reply actions
(unless BBR has led me astray)
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by Andrew Martin on Nov 17, 2011 12:49 PM MST up reply actions
(which it appears it has)
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by Andrew Martin on Nov 17, 2011 12:51 PM MST up reply actions
It would have been .246/.353/.532
without that game
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 17, 2011 12:54 PM MST up reply actions
What are you using for your OBP calculation?
I’ve just been doing (H+BB+HBP)/PA and it got me .347
I hate calculating OBP.
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by Andrew Martin on Nov 17, 2011 1:06 PM MST up reply actions
Oops
Failure on my part. When I added H+BB+HBP I wrote 52 instead of 51 and divided that by the 146 PA’s. Your number is correct.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 17, 2011 1:40 PM MST up reply actions
err.
The 147 PA’s. Clearly I need to be more aware.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 17, 2011 1:41 PM MST up reply actions
yeah sure it works both ways
didn’t add an HR’s or RBis to the
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 12:52 PM MST up reply actions
OK, his batting line, without that one Philly game, is
.246/.347/.532, .879 OPS
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by Andrew Martin on Nov 17, 2011 12:54 PM MST up reply actions
It’s not even totally about the production – though his days off are problematic. It’s that he’s kind of screwing with succession planning to a degree. Though ultimately, this roster decision is probably more appropriately made after the 2012 season
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
The lack of production at 2B and 3B is hurting us
1B is not providing excess production to cover our glaring deficiencies at other positions.
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
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by Junction Rox on Nov 17, 2011 12:36 PM MST up reply actions
Yes
exactly what i was trying to say
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 12:37 PM MST up reply actions
this is kind of the difficulty
Helton’s performance is awesome – considering his age and his back issues, but there’s still something underwhelming about ‘hoping’ for 3 WAR from first base – particularly when your team got something like 0 WAR total out of 2b + 3b in 2011…
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
should have traded for jesus montero
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.
That being said
aside from Youkilis (and ignoring Pujols or Fielder), no one really makes sense. David Ortiz? His offense has been all over the place and his defense sucks. Other than that, it’s just Carlos Pena and scrap-heap Lyle Overbays
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
especially if the franchise's best player
was among the top 10 hitters at his position
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
haha why i don’t bring it up, its my opinion but know that its not welcome here concerning Helton
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 12:38 PM MST up reply actions
Because it doesn’t have a lot of basis in fact. 2B and 3B production are below league average. 1B production with Helton/Giambi is above league average. 1B is not the problem.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 12:42 PM MST up reply actions
after Helton retires
there’s literally no one in our system who looks likely to take over at 1b.
Kiel Roling? Kyle Parker?
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
Yes. But the argument was:
ake his $10 million off the books and let us use that to acuire a really solid hitting 1B and it helps ease the pain of 2nd and 3rd shortfalls. Instead because of our "shortfall" at 1B and lack of depndability from that position, we cannot afford a lack of production from 3rd and 2nd
This isn’t about the future. It is about today. And it is wrong.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 12:46 PM MST up reply actions
How about it's neither right, nor wrong?
The 10 mill thing isn’t entirely correct, it’s about 5 mill per season – a value Helton can totally meet and beat. And we wouldn’t get much of a fix at 1b for 5 mill. However, it is correct that we’re getting slightly better than average production out of 1b which doesn’t help cover 3b and 2b ( and we don’t have enough production at other positions to really cover it effectively either)…
Also one could make the argument that if Helton had retired the team would have done something to address 1b at some point. It’s really a hypothetical but Helton’s presence isn’t entirely a non-issue. It’s something we can all live with for rational and emotional reasons but it is impeding our flexibility and putting a ceiling on our offensive production…
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
Sure I understand now the
nubmers are better than I thought. But it goes back to my thought about how pitchers approach the lineup. Tulo and Cargo are feared but nobody else is. Todd is not feared anymore. Nobody is behind Tulo to protect him. Its so hard to approach the Phillies, Yankees, or Red Sox, or Cards because they have 3 legit power threats at the plate and its hard to pitch around 3 guys because there are only 3 open bases. This is my biggest problem with the idea that we don’t have a 3rd legit power hitter to protect our 2 stars
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 12:57 PM MST up reply actions
Yes.
But that’s not solely a 1B problem. The blame should lie with Stewart and Smith more than Todd.
That’s why Smith will not be playing here in 2012.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 1:04 PM MST up reply actions
No. It's wrong.
The statement implies that if Albert Pujols had played 1B, we wouldn’t have had any reason to worry about 2B and 3B. Helton had 2.7 WAR. Even if Pujols had had 8 WAR (which he didn’t) and we forget about Giambi’s 1 WAR, that’s still only about 5 wins. We’re still a sub .500 club.
The problem isn’t 1B.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 1:01 PM MST up reply actions
Depends how much stock
you put into stats and sabermetrics.
Im done. Helton is awesome and a Top 10 1st Baseman for as long as he wants to play
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 1:06 PM MST up reply actions
whoa whoa whoa guy
don’t put words in everyone’s mouth here. No one said 1b is the only problem. The only reason this started is because I said I think Helton represents something of a ‘never discussed’ problem for the team because he’s unreliable and limits roster flexibility. Waterboy just questioned the allocation of money.
And no one said that if we had Pujols we wouldn’t have to worry about 2b and 3b, rather if we had Pujols it would help offset some of the lack of production from those positions (to the tune of 5WAR as you mentioned) while we still continue to look for upgrades/wait for minor league players to emerge. Don’t get it twisted homie.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
I'm referring specifically to waterboy's quote
Instead because of our “shortfall” at 1B and lack of depndability from that position, we cannot afford a lack of production from 3rd and 2nd.
Your arguments about the future are valid. But this line from waterboy is not. And my reply to it is valid since I was demonstrating how even with the best production from 1B, 2B and 3B are still a problem.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 1:13 PM MST up reply actions
agree
Its not a shortfall from a statistics side
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 1:14 PM MST up reply actions
But 1B is a lot easier to find than other positions.
I don’t really see it as a huge issue right now.
Next season
depending on how Helton does this season could get awkward…
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
The one who knows how to spell Kyle
appears to be the heir apparent right now…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
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by Junction Rox on Nov 17, 2011 1:05 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
No
But he can play whichever position is a bigger need, and we can’t be 100% certain of what that is right now. Take a few very possible scenarios for this season where Youkilis is fairly healthy…..
1) Todd has another great year, Arenado needs most of the 2012 season finish polishing his talent.
Here Youk helps you because he vastly improves your 3B situation this season.
2) Todd’s back acts up and he needs significant time off, Arenado progresses quickly and becomes a solid option at 3B a couple of months into the season.
Here Youkilis helps you because he provides a strong option at 1B when Todd does down. I’d MUCH rather see Youkilis there everyday than Giambi.
3) Todd’s back acts up and he needs significant time off AND Arenado needs most of the 2012 season finish polishing his talent.
Here Youk helps you because he fills one of these two holes – And the best part, you get to choose which one he fills. This is really important if other things (let’s say the pitching staff) turns up roses for the Rockies and they are in contention at the trading deadine. Now they can fill either 1B or 3B in a trade and be all set at the corners
4) Todd has another great year AND Arenado progresses quickly and becomes a solid option at 3B a couple of months into the season.
Here you have an problem – Three guys, two spots. But it’s damn good problem to have.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 17, 2011 10:27 AM MST up reply actions 2 recs
This is both the most likely scenario, and the most problematic.
3) Todd’s back acts up and he needs significant time off AND Arenado needs most of the 2012 season finish polishing his talent.
Here Youk helps you because he fills one of these two holes – And the best part, you get to choose which one he fills. This is really important if other things (let’s say the pitching staff) turns up roses for the Rockies and they are in contention at the trading deadine. Now they can fill either 1B or 3B in a trade and be all set at the corners
What really happens here is that we have a hole at 3B, 2B, and OF. We had these same three holes this year, only now, we are paying $13–25 million dollars more to have them. Maybe the rotation does do better, but are the rotation and Youk going to add 20 wins by themselves? Probably not.
I think he’s fine, but only as a final piece.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 10:35 AM MST up reply actions
No, Youk fills that hole.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 10:37 AM MST up reply actions
In the "we have Youk" scenario (assuming the worst/#3 situation from above):
There are 3 holes: 1b/3b, 2b, Pitching
In the “we don’t have Youk, but do have Prado, Outfielder to be named, and SP to be named” scenario, there are 1 1/2: 1b and 3b (I’m giving Stewart rebounding/Nolan making a splash in the bigs 50% odds)
Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 17, 2011 10:50 AM MST up reply actions
The Youkilis and Prado deals don't have to be mutually exclusive
Although I doubt we get both done.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 17, 2011 10:53 AM MST up reply actions
Right on both counts.
This is why I favor Prado though. I think that we are still coming out of this offseason with holes. I’d rather have a hole at 3B than 2B. And I’d rather spend $5 million than $13 million.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 10:56 AM MST up reply actions
I know
I’m just saying, between the Prado deal and the Youk deal I prefer Prado – leaves us more room in the budget to fill holes
Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 17, 2011 11:13 AM MST up reply actions
In other words
read Petro’s post. We are in agreement.
Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 17, 2011 11:13 AM MST up reply actions
This is where I kind of draw my line in the sand
If we go for one of these deals I actually want to push hard for both. I don’t mind giving up some pretty good propects if we can fill enough holes and have a solid shot at the postseason in 2012.
The one thing I absolutely do not want to do though is give up prospects to go halfway on 2012. (Make a good deal or two to fill a couple of holes but leave big questions at most other positions)
At that point, I’d rather hold onto my chips and be ready to have all our young players come on strong in 2013.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 17, 2011 11:18 AM MST up reply actions
You got to know when to hold 'em.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 11:18 AM MST up reply actions
Sure.
But we didn’t lose Bettis and $13–25 million dollars to end up with 81 wins. That’s my point.
And we traded Street for something else.
So, we fight in 2012, but we destroy in 2013. If Youk is the last piece that helps us destroy in 2012, let’s do it! If he is going to leave us with other holes, then let’s pass and get ready for 2013.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 10:50 AM MST up reply actions
But what if Youk bats
303 and hits 28 HR with 131 RBIs?
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 12:20 PM MST up reply actions
If we don't fill the other holes,
he can hit .303 with 28 HR and have 90 RBIs.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 12:23 PM MST up reply actions
The fact that I think he's fine as a final piece
is a big change. I see the light. I just really think that this team is further away than one acquisition, and the Youk acquisition is going to be pretty costly.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 10:40 AM MST up reply actions
C'mon Petro: Iannetta. Two N's
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Nov 17, 2011 11:17 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
C'mon Petro: Iannetta. Two N's
Lol :P
I really like that lineup. Yes yes yes
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Nov 17, 2011 11:17 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
Where is Smith?
If you put him in there, there’s only one below average hitter.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 17, 2011 10:06 AM MST up reply actions
He’s not going to be here next year.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 10:08 AM MST up reply actions
But in your theoretical lineup
What did we get for him? Pitching?
Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 17, 2011 10:09 AM MST up reply actions
Depends on which one, we either get Prado or pitching.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 10:10 AM MST up reply actions
If we get Prado
Then Nelson in the 2-hole is fixed and I like your lineup a LOT more.
Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 17, 2011 10:11 AM MST up reply actions
It is nice to have a legit hitter behind Tulo though
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 10:07 AM MST up reply actions
not gonna happen
Youk is a fan favortite in Boston. He won’t get traded fro the same reason Helton won’t. Unless you give the Sox something they can’t refuse then maybe, but Huston Street? No. Throw in Wilin Rosario and a couple other prospects and they might listen.
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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 12:00 PM MST up reply actions
2007
Helton for Youkilis (or was it Lowell) almost happened
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
Street for Youk its settled
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
Street and Wigginton for Youk.
Let’s be fair.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 9:31 AM MST up reply actions
yeah Pawtucket needs a star too
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 9:35 AM MST up reply actions
As much as I don't want Ty Wigginton in the same state as me
It’s a sacrifice, I am willing to make.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 17, 2011 9:49 AM MST up reply actions
I don't think that's enough to get it done
Ortiz is gone, right?
Red Sox Nation meet your new DH: Seth Smith
and JD Drew is gone
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by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 9:34 AM MST up reply actions
They're going to want prospects.
High-level ones too.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 9:38 AM MST up reply actions
Ortiz is a free agent
I don’t think he has too many offers yet though so it’s a wait and see situation there.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 17, 2011 9:48 AM MST up reply actions
Right.
We’re looking at a deal of Street and Bettis and another high-level prospect at least.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 9:51 AM MST up reply actions
Remember that Heath Bell is out there to be had.
They don’t need to trade if they don’t want to. The only thing holding them back is giving up the draft pick.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 9:53 AM MST up reply actions
Only if he declines Arb
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
The Rockies are not giving up Street and two high level propects for two years of Youkilis
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 17, 2011 9:57 AM MST up reply actions
They’re going to have to. The Red Sox don’t need to get rid of Youkilis and they don’t need Seth Smith. If they trade with us, it will be for prospects and Street.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 10:00 AM MST up reply actions
Could Ty Wigginton
be considered a prospect?
Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 17, 2011 10:01 AM MST up reply actions
That type of talent is almost never exchanged for two years of a player like Youkilis
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 17, 2011 10:05 AM MST up reply actions
Then what are they going to take?
Street for Youk straight up isn’t happening unless Cherington is an idiot.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 10:08 AM MST up reply actions
I think it would be more a Street + one high prospect deal for the two sides to agree
The Red Sox are not looking to trade Youkilis but they are not 100% set on having him around either
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 17, 2011 10:17 AM MST up reply actions
Well, they don't HAVE to
they can always not make the deal at all. Which, at that price, is what I would prefer them to do..
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
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by Junction Rox on Nov 17, 2011 11:31 AM MST up reply actions
This made me laugh out loud at work
or the highly unlikely dump of Ty Wigginton and his salary on some unsuspecting chump.
Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 17, 2011 9:34 AM MST reply actions
Also, from the DP article
Stewart will be tendered a contract, but the Rockies are likely to trade him. Pittsburgh and Arizona were among the teams that had interest in July.
If we trade Ian to the D-backs, he will slay us 18 times a year.
Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 17, 2011 9:50 AM MST up reply actions
Yes. Yes he will.
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He will likely end up an All-Star is my guess
but I see him more likely wearing a Pirates uniform
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by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 10:08 AM MST up reply actions
Stewart and Street for Walker and.prospect and cash.
2b filled Bucs have alot of OF prospects. Biggest plus is Tracy can’t tinker with Walker .Then offer to outright buy Youk.
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LOL.
Wtf? We’re not getting Walker for Stewart and Street
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by CentralCaliRox on Nov 17, 2011 11:18 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
not to mention walker and prospect and cash
that is comical
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by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 12:21 PM MST up reply actions
lmao.
This is my most common typo for some reason. I text it all the time.
About it*
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by CentralCaliRox on Nov 17, 2011 1:21 PM MST up reply actions
I do it all the time too
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by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 1:24 PM MST up reply actions
ho boy, i knew this day was coming....
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by frightened inmate #2 on Nov 17, 2011 1:23 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
why would they want stewart when they have pedro alvarez
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.
Why would anyone want Stewart?
Maybe to replace Jones?
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
garrett jones, the outfielder?
that would make no sense at all
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.
He's spent a lot of time at 1b for them too.
If I could get Walker for cheaper than Prado, and had more flexibility money wise, and could get rid of Stewart once and for all; I pull that trigger. We won’t get Alvarez. That’s DOD’s fantasy.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Lady's and gentleman Mark Reynolds 1.1
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
If we can't get Stewart out
we aren’t going to be getting anyone else out so I suppose it really wouldn’t matter at that point.
Unless we get something of real value, I say keep him....
He’s still too damn intriguing to just dump. One last look to see if he can pull it together, I say.
Agreed
Although someday he might be 35 and I’ll be saying “give him one more look!”
Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 17, 2011 11:15 AM MST up reply actions
It's done.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20111117&content_id=25992120&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb
As are the two new WC spots.
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
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nooo!
who the hell wants more wild cards?!!
2011 Rockies record when I am in attendance: 6-6
I do.
More meaningful baseball in September around he league is a good thing.
well then...
isn’t it diluting the meaning of a 162 game season?
I do see what you mean about the divisions…
2011 Rockies record when I am in attendance: 6-6
err, what petro said about divisions
and RIRF is saying it makes the regular season MORE meaningful. I guess so. Until a team with 85 wins gets to the WS!
2011 Rockies record when I am in attendance: 6-6
An 83 win Cardinal team already got to and won the World Series in 2006
Based on past records, the second Wild Card team will almost always have more than 85 wins.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 17, 2011 11:12 AM MST up reply actions
Usually it ends up around 88-90 wins
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 17, 2011 11:13 AM MST up reply actions
wow, in 2006! That's crazy.
today i learn.
2011 Rockies record when I am in attendance: 6-6
I love that winning the division will mean something again.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 11:07 AM MST up reply actions
I do
Because it penalizes the Wild Cards teams and actually make the regular season more meaningful.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 17, 2011 11:09 AM MST up reply actions
The we definitely should be making a push in Todd's final years
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
2013 is still a ways off for Todd
He’ll be 40 then. One reason I want the Rox to be aggressive this offseason is we could be looking at his last hurrah, especially if he has any back issues.
Yep exactly
I’m torn because I think we need so many moves and so many things to go right to make a credible run, but at the same time I despise the thought of putting Todd out to pasture on a rebuild while Tulo and Cargo waste prime years.
Let’s go, DOD. Show some flash.
If it's June and the Rox are on the road to nowhere....
I’d swallow hard and think about moving Todd to a contender. The man deserves to retire with a World Series ring.
Nah.
Even if you did you’d have a one in ten chance, at best, of guessing right. I think the career with one club, most beloved player ever thing is more of a thing.
let's ask ray bourque what his opinion is
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.
Of staying with his career club and retiring a hero (+ a 4% chance of winning a ring)
vs a 10% chance of winning a ring as a bench bat/DH for some Billy Big Bollocks team out west? OK.
so you think ray bourque regretted going to the avs and being a part of the 01 cup team,
and would rather have wallowed in futility on a shit boston squad, but gone out as the hometown hero? no way man. flags fly forever, and so do retired jerseys
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.
Well....
….I’m guessing Lance Berkman is OK with having given up on spending his career with one team.
He also didn't
get the choice to block trades.
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
yes he did
he had 10 and 5 rights before he went to the yankees, got traded, and almost made the world series
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.
I stand corrected
I always forget he came into the league in 1999 and not 2001 or 2002
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
Exactly
its probably worth it if it works. But not so much if he’s traded to like (gag) Los Angeles or Anaheim or whoever and they lose in the first round of the playoffs.
Larry Walker probably appreciated the shot
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Larry Walker should have allowed us to trade him to Texas for Ian friggin’ Kinsler.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
No S imagine that MIF
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Larry Walker could have signed with the Avalanche
to get his title…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Nov 17, 2011 11:45 AM MST up reply actions
Walker is not the same situation of course
not really even comprable.
If that is something Todd truly wanted
I would be cool with it of course. But I would hate to see him in another uni, just stomach turning, and especially grueling if he didn’t win.
Right, clearly....
if it was something he wanted and team he wanted to play for. He’s earned the right to choose: play your entire career with one team or take a shot at a ring.
Either way, his legacy is intact in my book.
His legacy was long ago intact as far as I'm concerned
But, of course, I still will hope he can add some more to it.
I wonder if, somehwere deep in his mind.....
Todd ever wonders what it would have been like if he were drafted by the Yankees or Red Sox. I know he loves being a Rockie, but it seems he’s done much more for this franchise than this franchise has done for him, which is a bit sad.
If he had played his career on an east coast championship-caliber team they’d be naming buildings after him.
Um, no.
In New York or Boston he wouldn’t have been nearly as important, and might have been shuffled out by this point. I think he’s pretty happy here.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 11:43 AM MST up reply actions
He's be a god in NY
You’re underselling his skill set.
And yeah, he’s happy here. But anyone would be even happier playing meaningful games every September and making runs at rings on a regular basis.
I’m not saying I wish he were there — far from it. I love the man and he is the Rockies in my book. But he deserves to have played in more than 4 world series games in his career. That’s all I’m saying….
I wonder how much a quiet, chilled out dude
like Helton would like fast-paced NY life and media attention.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
As for him being a quiet guy....
That’s actually always been a part of the Yankee deal. They have brash guys like Reggie Jackson, David Wells, A-Rod, etc. and then always have them balanced out by mellow dudes like Chris Chambliss, Mariano Rivera and Jeter. Professional guys who don’t stir things up are pretty well woven into that team’s legacy.
I dunno about Mariano
but Jeter participated in the NY night life a lot. Even guys like Bernie Williams, Tino Martinez, and Paul O’Neill seemed to enjoy the attention -to the extent that they didn’t hate it. Helton is totally different in that, if left to his devices, he is much more remote.
This all being said, who the hell really knows…
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
Yep, it's speculative fiction at this point.
My main point: Todd deserves a hand filled with championship rings. Alas, unless something dramatic happens, he’ll settle for a retired number and maybe a statue.
And I’m sure he’ll be OK with that. Even greater players (such as Ernie Banks) have had to.
I blame the 8-day layoff in 2007 for the lack of a ring.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
as much as we all like to do that...
2007 boston was a way better team. 2007 cleveland, on the other hand, we would probably have beaten
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.
Well, I blame that for the lack of a competitive series
That was a good Boston team. Without that layoff, we have a good shot at it, but it still would have been a challenge.
yea same
I don’t know if we would have won – though these past two years have shown the team better on paper isn’t destined to win. But the series definitely would have been something more than the Rockies laying down and dying…
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
Really, many, many great players
have never even been to a World Series. I always think about Dale Murphy. He left the Braves in 1990, one year before they were good, after suffering with some of the worst teams in baseball.
He plays for the Phillies until 1992. They make it to the WS the following year.
He has only one playoff series in his career, but two MVPs.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 12:22 PM MST up reply actions
Former Rockie Dale Murphy :)
Another guy who never got to the WS – one of my favorite players as a kid – Andre Dawson.
In the end,
he’ll be with a lot of great players who made the WS, but didn’t win. I would say that half of the HOF is in this group. It’s not a bad group to be in.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 12:30 PM MST up reply actions
Nolan Ryan has one WS ring
That he got his rookie year….never sniffed another one.
The Martha Stewart of processed foods.
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
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I'm sure he would have rather
won 6 rings as a player, instead of 6 rings as owner.
The Martha Stewart of processed foods.
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
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Agree
“I was, till about 30 seconds ago.” ~Todd Helton when asked if he enjoyed letting Troy Tulowtizki and Carlos Gonzalez have all the media attention while not having the media around him
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
I remember reading something
where he was asked about his post-career plans and he said something to the effect of ‘if I don’t come back to coach you’ll probably never really see me’
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
HAHA
They also went out of their way to commit to years of ARod and everything he stands for – And they did it twice.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 17, 2011 12:59 PM MST up reply actions
It's silly to argue, but I strongly disagree.
Out of all of the championships that the Yankees have won in the last 15 years and all of the great players and future HOFers they have had, only two players are going to be revered in the Yankee-God pantheon: Jeter and Rivera. The rest will be remembered fondly, but of less importance. I think Todd would have ended up there as a Yankee.
You forget that Todd is of huge importance because the Rockies pantheon is pretty small. When you start to put him up against Ruth, Gehrig, Mantle and DiMaggio, he looks a little bit smaller.
I’m not knocking Todd, but I don’t think it’s easy to say that he would be worshipped in NY anymore than many of the other great players that they have had.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 11:58 AM MST up reply actions
I mean
I’m not sure how far we’re extending this hypothetical scenario, but it’s definitely possible Todd would have just been traded given Mo Vaughn and Tino Martinez…
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
I'm not comparing him to Jeter and Rivera....
so maybe I’m guilty of hyperbole by saying he’d be a “god”. But I’ll make a better comparison:
Yankee fans still get weepy remembering Don Mattingly. I was in NY and a Yankee fan during his entire career. He was a wonderful player. But Helton is simply a better player. I can say that with some objectivity ’cause I was a fan of both teams and bot guys. Helton is just better all-around.
That’s the level of love I’m talking about. Let’s call it “demigod” :)
I feel like Helton
basically is Mattingly – just over a longer period of time…
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
They're extremely similar - right down to the back problems
The difference is Todd’s glove. He’s one of the finest first basemen of our time.
Wasn't Mattingly an excellent defensive 1b?
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
yes he was
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.
He was very good.
Todd is better.
Not a knock on Mattingly’s glove. Todd’s one of the best I’ve ever seen.
Mattingly was one of my favorites growing up but I’m way too young to remember how he was defensively…
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
Extremely solid
His range suffered as his back problems worsened, but he made all the plays.
When I say Helton is the better of the two, I don’t mean to imply there was a dramatic difference. They’re extremely comparable players.
don't forget that new york and boston value the plate battle and the walk more than any other team
and that’s exactly who todd is. and don’t forget how NYS and fenway play for LHBs who can hit to all fields, or the lineups that he would have been on.
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.
I can't allow myself to think about stuff like that
far too depressing.
Let me just say....
I didn’t intend this to become a “Todd should be a Yankee” thread. Just pointing out that I feel bad for the guy never having had many shots at the brass ring.
If he can hang on long enough and the Rockies can improve fast enough, I’d much rather see him hoist the WS trophy in purple and black. Believe me…..
No
I wasn’t upset at the question. Its just the self-esteem issues inherent in small/mid-market fanbase, particularly one that has been as down as the Rox over most of Todd’s career…its easy to imagine he could be somewhat resentful…and that Tulo might be…and that Holliday was…and Arenado will be…etc. Its just something we can’t really dwell on around here because it will likely never change.
Hey, we dwell on not having a decent 2B...
and that will likely never change. :)
One other point.....
Just because it is this way, doesn’t mean it has to be this way (vis a vis small/mid market stuff). I’m pretty sure guys on the Brewers feel pretty good about their choice to be there.
A much bigger issue is accepting the idea that we’re a “once in a blue moon” contender.
I wonder if he thinks
about not taking that 2nd round offer by the Padres in 1992
probably not
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
Well, I think DOD already showed he's willing to rebuild now.
This summer’s deadline trade represented a willingness to wait at least a couple of years for the pitching to reach its peak. I’m willing to consider now that it might have been the best move for the team, but it probably means a step back in 2012. DOD isn’t putting Helton’s chances at postseason glory as a priority.
I'm not saying he should
I’m saying I kinda want him to.
I wanted him to also.
That was part of why I was so upset about that trade.
I don't disagree
I’ve come to grips with the trade because it seems there may be something seriously wrong with Ubaldo. It was a smart trade so long as 2010 Uball doesn’t come back roaring for Cleveland, but it will always be defensible. But it definitely was not a “we’re a contender in 2012” move. But he’s got time to make those moves.
If rebuilding is
with two MLB ready, almost TOR, starting pitchers and two other decent prospects then yes he’s rebuilding.
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
Thats exactly it.
They saw how much excitement was around the play in games, and decided they needed to force more. I’ve been in favor of a lot of changes, but this one really isn’t all that great. You can’t really force special games like this.
I hate change.
I thought 2011 sucked pretty bad. I have nothing to add to that.
by prettyinpurple on Nov 17, 2011 5:40 PM MST up reply actions
Oh baby what baseball is gonna do to you!
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
The best part of the Rockpile today?
Learning that there’s a team named the New Hampshire Fisher Cats.
Taylor Bucholz is now a free agent
Still uncertainly whether he can pitch because of his anxiety/depression issues (http://twitter.com/#!/SurfingTheMets/status/136215865149497344).
Godspeed Taylor — I’ve been there brother. Tommy John surgery is a breeze to deal with in comparison. Get well — and answer the phone if Dan O’Dowd calls.
I hate January the most
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
I at least like the idea of a new year
and new beginnings.November just stinks of a stale, old year, bad weather, 1000s of rumors but nothing happening in baseball, and one day where you have dinner with the family.
It probably helps that I live in San Diego where November weather is great.
I get some rain for a welcome change, foggy mornings, clear afternoons. Heck one year it was 90(that’s a little to unseasonal for me). Plus people start putting Christmas lights on the palm trees, which never ceases to crack me up.
My birthday was always ruined by snow or rain or something else when I was growing up in Aurora., so I can understand that part of it.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
as someone who was born in January,
you’re all dead.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
lol, well played
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
Me too!
Let’s get ’em
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Nov 17, 2011 1:22 PM MST up reply actions
The nice thing about February though......
There’s less of it
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 17, 2011 1:43 PM MST up reply actions
if we could just abolish Valentine's Day . . .
But Ty Wigginton is an All-Star ?!?!
by DAWNMARIE01 on Nov 17, 2011 1:51 PM MST up reply actions 3 recs
WORD!!! flec +1 x eleventy billion infinity
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Valentine's Day is pretty awesome. . . . .
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Nov 17, 2011 1:54 PM MST up reply actions
-1 , flagged :p
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
/facepsalm?
Is this a new type of prayer?
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
It was a kind of entertaining movie,
But I can’t wait until they release Arbor day in 2017
Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
.
http://reallifecomics.com/comics/2011/20111116_2772.jpg
Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
Also, if by awesome you mean horrible.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
What's wrong with Valentine's Day?
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 1:57 PM MST up reply actions
Everything?
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
You don't have to celebrate it.
I’ve been married for eight years. I don’t celebrate it anymore.
But I’m not going to begrudge other people celebrating it.
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 2:07 PM MST up reply actions
Every day is Valentine's Day with me, butterfly.
Hell yeah.
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 2:15 PM MST up reply actions
Well thanks for clarifying that I don't have to celebrate it.
Whew…
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Hmm, this is a compelling argument
Dark chocolate is always appreciated.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Eh, she's OK
I tend to prefer Tiffanie, but maybe that’s just me…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Nov 17, 2011 2:30 PM MST up reply actions
Heh icwydt
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
What's the beef, cat?
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Nov 17, 2011 1:57 PM MST up reply actions
+1000000000000
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Nov 17, 2011 2:31 PM MST up reply actions
I have a counter argument to this for you
But it’s not appropriate…..
Then again, I’ve already made the point before. (So don’t click cat unless you have some brain bleach handy)
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 17, 2011 3:13 PM MST up reply actions
I don't get it lol
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
If you clicked
You would get it.
And according to that, I was conceived in January.
Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
Thanksgiving for me.
The Martha Stewart of processed foods.
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
Video tips on posting links and images to Purple Row - Click Here -
Oh Lord, I just figured out
I was born 4 days short of 9 months after my mom’s birthday.
/filed under things I didn’t want to know…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Nov 17, 2011 3:34 PM MST up reply actions
Labor day, I guess?
Only if I was a little late.
Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 17, 2011 3:35 PM MST up reply actions
Ohhhh now I get it
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
I did click...I still didn't get it...
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Figures
I gave that response in the original thread.
"No Mission Too Difficult, No Sacrifice Too Great—Duty First" - 1st Infantry Division Motto
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V-Day here, birthday was yesterday.
Last year, Frank Wren got Dan Uggla for my birthday…this year, Jose Yepez. He’s totally off my Christmas card list.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
yup thats me too the 15th
valentines day, boy isn’t that nice
—dont married people shag outside of holidays…gulp,
/yells to other room
“honey…is Thanksgiving coming up already?”
The Big Purple Machine will make a believer outta you!
by El Paso Jeff on Nov 17, 2011 4:29 PM MST up reply actions
Do you really want to be changing diapers
during the Rockies stretch run?
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Nov 17, 2011 4:36 PM MST up reply actions
April is the
cruelest month.
The Martha Stewart of processed foods.
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
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by hotdoglady on Nov 17, 2011 2:35 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I was waiting for this.
This is why Maria is awesome.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 2:37 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
If i'm only gonna make a couple of comments a week
they gotta be good.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 2:42 PM MST up reply actions
new job keeping you busy then?
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.
Well as a Sox fan I'd like to give you guys my two cents here
seeing as most of today was demoted to talking about trading for Youk. First of all its not going to happen. Youk is one of the only bright spots right now in Boston for the fans. With all the crap they have gone threw they are not about to go and trade their fan favorite for an injury prone Street and Ty freakin Wiggington. Its just not going to happen. Not only does that not fit Youk’s trade value anyways but Boston Values him even higher than what his trade value really is for moral reasons. I meantioned Carl Crawford yesterday because Boston would be willing to dump his salary to another team who wanted to chance him… hell they may even pay out some of that salary but Crawford is not a fan favorite of the team. It’s a different scenario. Just wanted to get my opinion out there. If Colorado was serious about landing Youk Boston would be laughing at that offer untill Arenado or Rosario were thrown into the equation.
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That makes sense.
And it also makes sense that O’D would never even dangle those two young guys for Youk. For god sakes, he’d better not.
i would hope he wouldn't do that
Youk is a good player, an above average third baseman but if I were a Rockie fan which I love the Rox, I just like the Sox more, I wouldn’t be worried about 3rd base. Arenado will be better than Youk in 2 or 3 years.
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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 12:12 PM MST up reply actions
I don't know about the first part of all this
though I suspect you are right…but I totally agree on the return. Its amusing to think we could get a guy of his caliber for guys we don’t want.
Youk to Boston
is essentially Tulo to Colorado. He gets his own chants, the crowd is the loudest everytime he comes up to bat or makes a play. Trust me, he means a lot to that team. The fans of Boston would riot if he was traded for Street and Wiggington.
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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 12:14 PM MST up reply actions
That's a little bit hyperbolic.
Tulo and Youk are in two completely different situations. This goes with the point that Street and Bettis are not going to do it though. I think that they might pull the trigger on Street, Bettis, and another high-level prospect.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 12:16 PM MST up reply actions
Agree
I can’t imagine Youk is anywhere close to as important to Bos as Tulo is to Colo, not for the least reason that he’s not one of their best 2-3 players. that said, i dig that he’s very, very good and a fan favorite. We won’t get him for our trash. We will get him for very desireable pieces, if at all.
they aren't that different
Tulo is a far better player but do you know what the fans of Colorado would do if he was traded? Even if the return was say Jose Reyes and Bryce Harper or something. Maybe not as many as you number crunching die hards but all those fans that chant tulo in the seats of Coors would be upset. It wouldn’t happen. I’m telling you Boston won;t have Youk on the market to start and if a team calls they are going to demand a lot more than his worth. Just saying.
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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 12:21 PM MST up reply actions
You might argue that it is Helton to Boston in 06
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
maybe
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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 12:26 PM MST up reply actions
Pedrioa or Ellesbury is more like that
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
both better players than Youk
but Youk is the fan favorite.. Peety is close behind.
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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 12:22 PM MST up reply actions
I would bet a poll of 1000 Sawx fans about who would you rather lose of those 3
my guess is youk wins
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
i bet every sox fan would say
none of them are for sale.
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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 12:25 PM MST up reply actions
I think NN71 makes a good point though....
BoSox fans have to be feeling a bit traumatized by the way the season ended, parting with Epstein and Francona, that Globe article…. This is not the time to deal a long time fan favorite. It’s not just a baseball decision, at some point you have to give fans something to hang onto.
Honestly, this seems to be a franchise teetering on the brink a bit (although having $$$ will cushion any falls) and I don’t see them moving guys who fans love.
exactly
think pathos people… it’s more than you think.
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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 12:31 PM MST up reply actions
Actually, I think it's the opposite.
If you are going to do in, now is the time.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 12:32 PM MST up reply actions
don't see it happening
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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 12:36 PM MST up reply actions
did you see them moving Theo and Tito out of town?
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Tito yes
Theo no… he left on his own.
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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 12:39 PM MST up reply actions
I don't either,
but I don’t think it’s because of the team situation.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 12:38 PM MST up reply actions
its for the fans
i mean he could be traded… but it would take something the Rox wouldn’t be willing to get
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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 12:39 PM MST up reply actions
Yeah
I think Youk is more like Helton. Far from the best player on the team, but someone who we would cry over if he was traded.
yes that is what ive been saying
he’s not going to get traded.
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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 12:26 PM MST up reply actions
Youkilis is not to the Red Sox as Tulo is to the Rockies
Youk is a great player who means quite a bit to that fan base, but Tulo means more to Colorado.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 17, 2011 1:13 PM MST up reply actions
I agree that it would take more
than two salary dumps. But I disagree that he is your only bright spot. I’m sure you are hurting after the collapse and the manager stuff, but you still have one hell of a team and will again be favorites to claim a playoff spot next year. I would give up anything to have half your lineup.
not the only
but one of the only. Gonzalez was good, Ellsbury was a bright spot as was Peety but the rest of the team? No. The rotation is a mess, they have hundreds of millions locked up in Lackey and Crawford who have been major busts and then losing an iconic GM and coach who ended an 86 year drought as well as the media harping about pitchers drinking beer during ghames? Yea Boston isn’t about to go trade a fan favorite. Its not gonna happen.
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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 12:24 PM MST up reply actions
you just did
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by Andrew Martin on Nov 17, 2011 12:32 PM MST up reply actions
idk what you would critique
their rotation?
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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 12:32 PM MST up reply actions
2 pitchers does not a rotation make
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.
i know
i meant what would mkorpal want to critique about my post as if he thought Boston’s rotation was okay or something
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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 12:37 PM MST up reply actions
go for it
i don’t mind. I won’t get nasty.
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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 12:38 PM MST up reply actions
Fair enough
You came in to discuss Youk and our ridiculous idea of trading Street and Wiggington for him, which is fine. However, I didn’t like the complaining about the Red Sox problems. To be honest, with two players who deserve MVP’s and a lineup that can support them easily, and the means to fix a rotation that has holes, but is still better than ours, I would kill to have your team. It just kind of irks me. Like the rich kid with all the toys in the world complaining to the poor kid that he has nothing to play with.
completely understandable
It irks me that Boston spends all that money too. I flly believe in a salary cap at 120 mm for every team and let every team compete. My reason fr liking the Sox goes back to 2002 and its a long story. Anyways the holes in their team are far more gaping than people think. Boston now have a GM who’s new to the game therefor making deals, trades, signing free agents will be harder. The longer your a GM, the greater a rep you build the easier it is to make deals. Another is the Sox still have no coach and the next coach they get won’t be near as good as Titto. Their rotation is a disaster and they have holes just like every other team. Yes Henry likes to spend money, yes Boston creates more revenue and makes more money due to a larger fan base who pay money and attend games. Is that my fault? No i don’t think so however you can have all the money in the world and still put a crappy product on the field. I’m sure it sounds bad that Sox fans can complain but really our team is in a lot of trouble. Also I wish i was a rich kid with all the toys… I’m a broke college kid living on ramon and watching all these millionaires throw money around is sick but i still love the game. The NBA… now they have me really questioning if i will continue following and supporting it.
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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 12:50 PM MST up reply actions
While the manager and coaching
are a bummer, at least your not stuck with a coach who you hate. And your most definitely not the only team with those issues.
As for your rotation, it’s certainly not as bad as you make it out to be. Having a top three of Beckett, Lester and Buchholz is quite good. Hell, look at our rotation as it stands next year. We got Chacin, who decided to walk everyone on the planet during the 2nd half last year, a pitcher coming off TJ surgery, another with an unprecedented injury, Hammel, and two rookies. I would certainly take your rotation over ours.
But I think we are digressing.
Yea its okay
Beckett is getting old tho and gets injured a lot. Bucholtz is a lot liek Chacin. Electric stuff but so inconsistent. Lester is our ace and is a very good pitcher… Pomeranz could def put up Lester esk numbers this season if he really is a top 10 prospect in the Majors which is what ive read. we shall see
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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 1:16 PM MST up reply actions
yea
I honestly think we are going to try and make a run for Hanley once Reyes gets signed by the Fish. I know a lot of our FO guys love him and have been trying to get him for the last couple of years. If that happened yea I think Scutaro could be had pretty easily
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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 1:26 PM MST up reply actions
Interesting
A lot of if’s though. But, how close would a Street for Scutaro trade be? I think he could be a cheaper (in terms of trade value) alternative for 2nd than Prado would be.
i don't think so
not unless they had a backup plan for SS in place first. But you never know.
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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 1:35 PM MST up reply actions
I don't think anybody was serious about
Street and Wiggy, I think the wiggy part was 100% joke. Obviously it would take prospects, but both sides know that the Sox aren’t getting any of the Rox Top 4 prospects for Youk
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by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 12:26 PM MST up reply actions
I wrote that.
110% joke.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 12:27 PM MST up reply actions
exactly
which is why there won’t be a deal lol just want to make that clear after glancing at some quotes it looked like people were thinking getting youk was a real possibility. its not.
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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 12:27 PM MST up reply actions
Didn't figure it was
who is going to play RF for the Sox?
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by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 12:29 PM MST up reply actions
no idea
Darnell McDonald probably maybe Reddick… they both suck. They may address it via trade but idk. they have holes on RF and at SS as well as C… we’re not sold on Salty. Our only starter is Lester, Beckett had a good year but i don;t see him staying healthy… we all know what happened with Lackey. Big Papi is prob gone. We don’t have a closer. The teams a mess.
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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 12:35 PM MST up reply actions
i was gonna get into trading pieces
but decided not too cuz it aint gonna happen and I really dont think they would trade Crawford would they? After 1 year?
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by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 12:39 PM MST up reply actions
maybe yea
they weren’t happy with him at all this year.
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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 12:41 PM MST up reply actions
I'll take Crawford if we only have to pay him $15 million a year
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by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 12:27 PM MST up reply actions
now that
that would not require prospects and I wouldn’t be surprised if Boston would be willing to not only take on Wiggington but maybe pay that ectra 5 mil a year for the Rox to take him on. That is a much more likely scenario than Youk.
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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 12:29 PM MST up reply actions
yay, another left-handed outfielder who can't hit lefties
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.
I swear if we brought up acuiring Pujols or Cliff Lee
that they would get ripped apart on here
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by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 12:31 PM MST up reply actions
don't threaten me with a good time
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.
He's a career .262 hitter against LHP
L’d love to see him on this team. Can you imagine the OF of him, Fowler and Cargo? And to have a legit base stealer like that?
it would be nasty
the defense as well.
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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 12:36 PM MST up reply actions
It would be fun to watch fangraphs explain that since his UZR was now negative 20
at coors he must not be any good at defense
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
what is UZR?
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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 12:52 PM MST up reply actions
Ultimate Zone Rating
it’s an advanced measure of defensive value
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.
and Crawfords was bad?
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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 12:54 PM MST up reply actions
in 2011, yes
after a career putting up very good numbers with tampa
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.
hmm
with the games i was able to watch he didn’t look bad but the Monster could have had its way with him. Give him Coors left field and I think that number changes.
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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 12:57 PM MST up reply actions
Agreed
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by Andrew Martin on Nov 17, 2011 1:03 PM MST up reply actions
Man
I wish he wasn’t get $20M/year for the next 8,000 years – how much of that do you think they’ll eat to ship him out of Boston?
Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 17, 2011 1:05 PM MST up reply actions
uhm
they would need something in return to eat enough. Honestly I could see them seriously considering a deal of Street, Wiggington, Spilly or Smith and Wilin Rosario and I could see them giving Crawford as well as eating 5-7 mil of his contract per year. I could see them consider it. I know they like Spilly a lot but more as a 4th OF. They honestly might give it one more year or at least another 50 games to consider moving him.. I wouldn;t be surprised to see them move him tho I know a lot of fans were upset with his performance and i believer so was the management.
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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 1:19 PM MST up reply actions
I’ll take Crawford if we only have to pay him $15 million a year
now that
that would not require prospects and I wouldn’t be surprised if Boston would be willing to not only take on Wiggington but maybe pay that ectra 5 mil a year for the Rox to take him on. That is a much more likely scenario than Youk.
Now waitaminnit, if it wouldn’t take prospects to get Crawford with them throwing in $5million a year, why would we be giving them Rosario again?
Not that the deal you spelled out sounds wrong to me, it just seems to go against what you said earlier.
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
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by Junction Rox on Nov 17, 2011 2:35 PM MST up reply actions
It doesn't make any sense regardless.
We’re not getting Crawford. Let’s not even talk about it.
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by CentralCaliRox on Nov 17, 2011 5:44 PM MST up reply actions
i switched my mind
after realzing how sorry the RF is
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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 8:50 PM MST up reply actions
Is that the stat.....
where guys watch video of games and determine, based on how hard the ball was hit and the speed of the OF’er whether they should have gotten to it? One of those defensive stats is based that way, and I find it really sketchy. So much human subjectivity at play in creating a supposedly objective number.
a .262 average that ends up being a .301 wOBA/ 86 wRC+
SWEET
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.
At a time when we're looking at Grady Sizemore as our LF salvation....
I’ll take Carl Crawford, flaws and all. And be thrilled about it.
one of those acquisitions is plausible
one is not
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.
hahah
this is true
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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 12:52 PM MST up reply actions
Since when did plausability become a limitation on...
…idle hot stove chatter? We’re just playing with monopoly money here.
yeah, i was just being argumentative
i’d love crawford here, especially if boston is shelling out cash for him
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.
Its like talking about winning the lottery
awesome to think about, but such a bummer when you know it wont happen
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by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 1:09 PM MST up reply actions
honestly
i just don’t think he is a spotlight player. I think he flourished in Tampa because everyone knew he was good, he just didn’t have that added pressure. If he played in colorado with Cargo Tulo and Helton hitting behind him, you’d see his Tampa numbers again… trust me. He’s my favorite player and I followed him in Tampa before he came to my Sox.
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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 12:53 PM MST up reply actions
The PROBLEM is
Our 2 Hole hitter has to be our 2nd Baseman
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by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 1:00 PM MST up reply actions
that does suck
unless Sizemore is added.
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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 1:01 PM MST up reply actions
Sizemore will play 2nd?
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by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 1:04 PM MST up reply actions
no if Sizemore is signed
he can hit in the 2 hole.
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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 1:20 PM MST up reply actions
You tell that to Jim Tracy
I dare you, he would kill you
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by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 1:21 PM MST up reply actions
hahaha
him and his fat chaw… I thought he’s had Smith hit 2nd before?
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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 1:27 PM MST up reply actions
you're still fairly new here
and missing this joke almost entirely. Stick around next year and see how it plays out.
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JFK
I prefer the original way of setting a lineup
The way the Yankees did in the 20s when they introduced uniform numbers. Leadoff guy wears #1, second guy wears #2…..
Slap an 8 on Iannetta’s back and let’s go.
Being a fan favorite in Boston is not a good guage as to whether or not a player will be traded
In the last 20 years, no one player has been as popular in Boston as Nomar Garciaparra was in the late 90’s/early 2000’s and he was traded in a deadline deal that involved Orlando Cabrera and Doug Mientkiewicz..
Also, I don’t think Youk is really that much more popular than Pedroia. He’s one of the favorites, but he’s not in a class of his own. If the Red Sox get an offer they like, they will move an aging corner infielder who is getting injured more often and is owed over $20 million on the last two years of his contract.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 17, 2011 1:10 PM MST up reply actions
fair enough
but itll take more than Street and WIggington.
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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 1:21 PM MST up reply actions
Oh no doubt
Wigginton is a disaster! It’s probably more Street and a pretty high prospect.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 17, 2011 1:30 PM MST up reply actions
Wiggington would be a negative trade value
Pittsburgh or Houston might take him on but only if we eat half of his salary
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Crawford just finished the first year of his contract
and everybody in Boston hates him.
Relax. Crawford definitely isn’t going anywhere.
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by CentralCaliRox on Nov 17, 2011 1:23 PM MST up reply actions
So, reserves deadline is days away.
Rockies will be filling their 40 man roster. We have three spots. One will be CHristian Friedrich, another will be Edwar Cabrera. Who do you guys want to see occupy slot #3?
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Is Eliezar Alfonzo off of his suspension yet?
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 12:33 PM MST up reply actions
No.
I am going to assume that no one wants Alfonzo in that spot, though.
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by Greg Stanwood on Nov 17, 2011 12:34 PM MST up reply actions
Well, he was my guy.
All of these people keep saying we need more guys with edge. Who is edgier than that?
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 12:36 PM MST up reply actions
Derek Jeter.
that guy’s got an Edge.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
I dunno, I'm pretty sure we could get some Ex Cons to put up garbage numbers from a lineup slot higher than 8.
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by Andrew Martin on Nov 17, 2011 12:43 PM MST up reply actions
Pomeranz got arrested!
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 12:44 PM MST up reply actions
exactly
catcher of the future
Purple Row - For all of your Colorado Rockies-related needs
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by Andrew Martin on Nov 17, 2011 12:45 PM MST up reply actions
Scott Speizio
and uhh Michael Barrett?? Jim Leyritz??
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
OT: Because this thread needs some cute.
And because as the proud aunt it is my duty.
My new nephew, Isaac Geoffrey:

Okay, no more off-topic from me. On topic comment coming anon.
Awwwww....
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
that moose shirt...
so freakin cute.
The Martha Stewart of processed foods.
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
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My sister loves mooses.
She used to have a shirt she bought in Banff that had a big moose head, and there was flap sorta thing that was the moose’s mouth, so if you run or bounce around, it looks like the moose is opening and closing his mouth. It was awesome.
Awesome...Since we are playing proud Aunt:

The Martha Stewart of processed foods.
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
Video tips on posting links and images to Purple Row - Click Here -
Yup :)
Super excited to get to see them at thanksgiving next week.
The Martha Stewart of processed foods.
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
Video tips on posting links and images to Purple Row - Click Here -
I get to meet my new newphew (and see my other nephew again) at Thanksgiving, too!
Yay, for families and holidays!
Yay!
are you flying in to Colorado?
The Martha Stewart of processed foods.
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
Video tips on posting links and images to Purple Row - Click Here -
No, we're all going to my sister's house in Houston this year.
(She’s the one with the new baby, though going to her house was the plan before she was pregnant.)
For what it's worth, from Joel Sherman:
#Mets and #Rockies briefly talked about building something around Huston Street and Pelfrey but Mets do not seem overly enamored with Street
Thats why the Mets suck
cuz they don’t believe us when the Rockies say its a good deal. Maybe Wiggy will push them over the top
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 1:07 PM MST up reply actions
i'd love mike "4.71 career SIERA" pelfrey
god, can we never set our sights high?
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.
Doubt we're going to get much that's high for Street.
They’re probably talking to all kinds of teams, seeing what might be available for him.
i know we won't get much for street, if we move him at all
but it’s just so annoying that every rumor about us is for some marginal piece. yeah yeah, hampton and neagle, but we’re never going to win a championship pursuing junk.
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.
Prado and Oswalt are marginal pieces?
Yeah, we might not get either, but I don’t think they’re only pursuing junk.
There is no junk to pursue
because we already have Ty Wiggington on our team and we kinda used Jose Lopez already and the rest of the junk is under contract in the Giants and Padres position players
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 1:16 PM MST up reply actions
you don't start publicly looking into mike pelfrey
unless you’re looking for junk
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.
But you said every rumor was that.
And we have no idea how close this actually was to happening, and only Sherman’s comment on why it didn’t.
i thought the hyperbole was obvious
i guess not
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.
yes y.
If we can get Pelfrey with Street + prospect + lower level prospect, I’d do it.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Nov 17, 2011 1:27 PM MST up reply actions
bring back Kirk Niewenhuis
former teammate of mine
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 1:32 PM MST up reply actions
that's extremely expensive for a guy with a 4.71 career SIERA
and 2 seasons with a FIP below 4
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.
yeah, that's a good point.
Street-Pelfrey straight up.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Nov 17, 2011 1:41 PM MST up reply actions
Pelfrey-Wigginton straight up?
Lol. Jk.
We need a guy that’s going to throw ~200 innings next year. With the exception of Jhoulys, we don’t have a single horse in the rotation as it stands right now.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Nov 17, 2011 1:44 PM MST up reply actions
True
But I want one, you know, who can give us 200 quality innings. Not one who gives us 200 bad innings.
Street may be over payed, but at least he is a quality closer.
I like Edwin Jackson.
I see Pelfrey as the Jackson-lite in this market.
I do agree with you though. Pelfrey isn’t first on my pitching list or even top 5, but the guy could be useful in this rotation.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Nov 17, 2011 1:48 PM MST up reply actions
And to be honest, Jhoulys is too young to be that guy that throws at least 200 innings
Just worries me.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Nov 17, 2011 1:46 PM MST up reply actions
Jhoulys is the same age as the guy that just won the NL Cy Young Award
Just sayin’…
Jason Giambi for player-manager in 2012!
How the world will end in 2012: George of the Roses builds a Machine that Pommels everyone with La Violencia during Whiteouts.
Kershaw is Kershaw.
Chacin isn’t Kershaw.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Nov 17, 2011 5:45 PM MST up reply actions
pelfrey is projected to make $5.8 mil in arb, too
barely any salary relief
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.
Kershaw wins CY
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.
Shouldn't be possible
because you are suppose to keep kids in the minors until they have gone through all the levels of the minors and until they reach a certain age because we can’t rush them
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 1:10 PM MST up reply actions
I thought
that due to Gaslamp Ball Will Venable won the NL Cy Young?
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
by Resolution on Nov 17, 2011 1:11 PM MST up reply actions 4 recs
Also, this from Charlie Blackmon made me laugh:
Someone ask @Jstylep why he can’t answer my phone call but he can answer a tweet in five minutes, because I’m not speaking to him right now.
Charlie Blackmon/Jordan Pacheco feud!
Adam Foster's crush on Arenado has reached involuntary gushing stage
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 17, 2011 1:56 PM MST via mobile reply actions
Arenado looks sooooo young.
Hard to believe he’s just TWENTY years old.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Nov 17, 2011 1:58 PM MST up reply actions
Aren't you 20 years old?
I’m confused.
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 2:00 PM MST up reply actions
I'm 19.
What I meant was, Arenado seems older than what he really is. Because of all the hype and stuff.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Nov 17, 2011 2:02 PM MST up reply actions
Arenado is almost certainly going to be the very first Rockies player
who will be younger than me when I see him play.
It’s gonna be a weird feeling/
I think Chacin was mine
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 17, 2011 2:45 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Pom was mine I believe
Jason Giambi for player-manager in 2012!
How the world will end in 2012: George of the Roses builds a Machine that Pommels everyone with La Violencia during Whiteouts.
Same
Having Pomeranz pitch to Rosario was weird because the entire starting battery is younger than me
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
Yeah.
You are young.
The Martha Stewart of processed foods.
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
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Heartache to heartache he stands.
No promises. No Demands.
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 2:47 PM MST up reply actions
Baseball = Love
so yes.
The Martha Stewart of processed foods.
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
Video tips on posting links and images to Purple Row - Click Here -
1993 they were all younger...
That ain’t changed a bit !
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
I didn't follow the Rockies' farm very closely in the 2000's.
Is the hype surrounding Arenado reaching similar levels to how people talked about Tulo when he was moving through the minors, or is it not there yet?
How hyped was Tulo coming through the minors?
I honestly don’t remember him being this hyped.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Nov 17, 2011 2:03 PM MST up reply actions
I remember the hype right before his rookie season
but nothing before that
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 2:13 PM MST up reply actions
Tulo was different because he was a first round pick
There was always some hype around them and he was always rated high on our propect list. I followed him through sites other than Purple Row though so it’s hard to compare.
Rox Girl, Russ, Franchise26, and Tom (RFTN) could probably answer this question best since they were around back then and could compare both.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 17, 2011 3:20 PM MST up reply actions
Well
Rox Girl couldn’t even spell his name right, so there is that
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
I doubt BPro and BA are as high on him, but we will see their rankings soon enough
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 17, 2011 2:04 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Wow.
That’s some high marks…
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Nov 17, 2011 2:01 PM MST up reply actions
Speaking of...
its been a few weeks, but Law is back. And softening…somewhat:
Mike (Denver)
I’m reading better reports on Arenado’s defense. Is this a fluke, incorrect or has he actually improved his defense?
Klaw (1:34 PM)
I think he does the best he can given his body. He has slow feet – there’s a ceiling on how good an infielder you can be if your legs are just heavy or slow. Matt Davidson is cut from similar cloth. Both can stay at 3b, most likely, but I don’t think either will ever save you 5 runs a year on defense.
When Keith Law is running out of bad things to say about Arenado,
you know we’ve got a legit prospect on our hands.
Mark Reynolds
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
haha he is making 7.5 million in ’12,
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 2:03 PM MST up reply actions
he also can't field
a baseball
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 2:05 PM MST up reply actions
Would Jack Wilson sign a minor league deal with us?
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
nevermind
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 2:08 PM MST up reply actions
Can we get Alex Gordon
and make him play 3rd again?
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
that ship has sailed
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
What about Wilson Betemit?
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Nov 17, 2011 2:33 PM MST up reply actions
We should hold out for
Willson Throwbathit McLeadership
Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
one of fangraphs new writers thinks the Rockies are way overvaluing Fowler
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/what-are-the-rockies-doing-with-dexter-fowler/
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 17, 2011 2:34 PM MST via mobile reply actions
Interesting thoughts...
I think the FO’s fear is that if we give them Dexter for Prado but can’t get Sizemore, we’re SOL in the outfield, defensively. I know there are defensive metrics that point towards Dexter not being great in the outfield, but I think we all know he’s more of an asset at Coors than Smith.
Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 17, 2011 2:49 PM MST up reply actions
I snorted when he quoted metrics that
Smith’s defense falls somewhere in between Fowler’s and Gonzalez’s
Hilarious.
Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 17, 2011 2:53 PM MST up reply actions
It would be the only thing that falls between Fowler and CarGo...
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Nov 17, 2011 2:55 PM MST up reply actions
I posted below too quickly
but I can’t agree with you more. Inane.
I take offense to this statement
Smith’s defense falls somewhere in between Fowler’s and Gonzalez’s, according to DRS and UZR/150, over 2,500 innings split fairly evenly between center, left and right.
Doesn’t pass the eye test…nope. cam’ on.
all other points are valid, but I like keeping fowler me self and defensive metrics are sooooo gah numbery
The Big Purple Machine will make a believer outta you!
by El Paso Jeff on Nov 17, 2011 2:54 PM MST up reply actions
Indeed
I’m fascinated by trying to quantify defense – I think a grid of motion detecting lasers on the field is what we’re going to need for defensive metrics to “get there”.
Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 17, 2011 2:57 PM MST up reply actions
I hope we havn't aroused the saber rattlers around here...
we are about to get learned….j/k
The Big Purple Machine will make a believer outta you!
by El Paso Jeff on Nov 17, 2011 3:00 PM MST up reply actions
I don't think anyone feels completely comfortable with defensive metrics.
Some are more comfortable than others, but it’s a sketchy business, particularly if you are using only one or two metrics.
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 3:02 PM MST up reply actions
Haha I'd gladly learn more about them
It just seems even the sabr rattlers shy away from some of the defensive metrics at times :-)
Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 17, 2011 3:03 PM MST up reply actions
I agree its adds to the discussion
my head explodes trying to wrap my simple mind around defensive metrics
The Big Purple Machine will make a believer outta you!
by El Paso Jeff on Nov 17, 2011 3:06 PM MST up reply actions
Like I said
they should just set up a laser grid that detects motion (maybe it would get too much action from squirrels, blowing napkins, etc.) – not only would it be able to tell us where exactly on the field a ball lands, where fielders are positioned at the start and end of the play, how far fielders range to get to a ball, and how quickly, but it would also be able to tell us whether a ball was fair or foul! Just like tennis!
Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 17, 2011 3:14 PM MST up reply actions
still have to take account of atmospheric conditions and ball spin off bat,
field proportions and then as if that’s not enough…maybe one scout see’s the play from different angles or has reporting bias??
The Big Purple Machine will make a believer outta you!
by El Paso Jeff on Nov 17, 2011 3:17 PM MST up reply actions
Yup
And not only do you have to take into account a player’s range, you have to take his glove, arm, fluidity of motion, skill at playing balls off of walls, gaguing windspeed… it’s a much more complicated thing to measure than offense (you get on base or you don’t, you score runs or you don’t).
Offense = success or failure
Defense = a sliding scale of success to failure with a lot more factors to take into consideration
Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 17, 2011 3:22 PM MST up reply actions
Any system
that credits Smith as a better fielder than Fowler needs to be reconsidered.
Or any SF Giant for that matter.
Colorado Rockies Players on Twitter
"Baseball is dull only to dull minds." ~ Red Barber
by Charlie77 on Nov 17, 2011 3:22 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
.

Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 17, 2011 3:30 PM MST up reply actions 3 recs
My favorite part about this
is that the cameraman is obviously just as f**king confused as Aubrey Huff – he’s going to go this way… no that way… no this way… oh God dammit where is the ball!?
Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 17, 2011 3:31 PM MST up reply actions
That reminds me of playing OF in little league.
Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
This isn't the system's fault...
This is user error by the writer.
First and foremost, she’s comparing UZR from a defensive-intensive position with UZR from less intensive positions. She should have at least factored in positional adjustment in this case, as their defensive value isn’t solely a merit of how they do in the field, but also where they’re capable enough to perform.
But let’s start at the beginning. What does UZR and DRS tell us about Smith?? Well, it says he’s got above-average range for a corner outfielder, but his arm is junk – especially in right, which is a position that requires a good arm. Both metrics tend to agree on this point, although DRS says that arm is really, really effin’ bad and UZR thinks it’s just kinda bad.
I’ll admit to only seeing about 1/3 of the games (and even then, watching another simultaneously many times…with occasional naps), but I’m sure some here can confirm or deny these findings with the eye test. But, before you do, remember that Carlos Quentin and Carlos Lee have played in the OF a lot and that the metrics are measured in relation to Smith’s positional peers. There’s plenty of OFs that really skew the curve of what’s considered average in a decidedly-downward fashion.
On to Fowler…this one’s a little more difficult, so bear with me. Both agree that is arm is just barely below-average. I don’t think that will shock anyone. DRS measures ability to take away homers, and Fowler’s got a positive there, larger than his arm detractor. I think these pass the eye test.
When looking at his range and fielding ability, 2009 jumps out and socks me in the face. Both have his range at horribly negative. Let’s look at that.
We are all well aware that physics don’t work the same at Coors Field. That can confound new fielders. I mean, having a ball that should go 300 feet in normal atmosphere travel 30 feet or so farther can really throw off your routes.
Fortunately, the Rockies’ AAA farm system can help acclimate new fielders to these uncanny physics. Except Dexter never played AAA before reaching MLB. That, in hindsight, may not have been a good plan.
So this is a huge wrench. I’m inclined to throw it out, despite every statistical reason to not do that. It’s simply too large an outlier to take seriously. So, I’m now going to judge this on an admittedly small sample (3 years minimum is ideal). When figuring overall, that year will be replaced by the mean of the other two years. Fowler’s range, for CF, does seem to be lacking on both metrics, from slightly below-average to just plain below average.
Before positional adjustment, I have Smith at +8 runs at corner spots (both are really close to that amount) and Dexter at -5 to -14. Let’s split the difference and call it pretty bad, -9.
Then there’s a positional adjustment. Smith’s comes to -12.8 runs above replacement, while Fowler’s is +5.1 RAR. Add it in, and you’ll see that they’re pretty close to the same fielder. They both fall at about -4 to -5 over a three-year sample (excluding Fowler’s 2009 numbers but adding in the mean value of his 2010-11 DRS and UZR findings).
This puts them at both slightly below average on a yearly basis, -1 to -2 runs above replacement. They provide similar values when at their respective positions.
If they were to switch positions, all bets are off and need a pretty significant sample size to determine their success or failure at that position. It’s easy to assume that Fowler would be better in LF/RF, but the ease of the position negates his value there. It’s equally likely that Smith would be average at best, performance-wise, but that the value of having him be able to play there (if it’s even possible at this point, dude hasn’t done it in awhile) would negate some of his poor play.
By not addressing the positions they play as a major component of their defensive value, Thurm has incorrectly attributed Fowler as a better fielder, rather than as a fielder of fairly similar caliber.
Okay, that was about the best I could do with my still-limited knowledge of these defensive metrics. I imagine why that’s also why everyone else was wise enough to not bother with this ridiculous task.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
Go look at willy taveras career numbers
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
This is correct.
However, I would say that this is still partly a problem with the system. We don’t adjust batting stats based on place in the lineup.
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 5:42 PM MST up reply actions
Of course not...
Because it makes no sense to adjust stats for place in the lineup. Every batter’s job is exactly the same, essentially. Get on base, don’t get out. How they do it is their business, though there are strategical moves in which sacrificing an out can be beneficial.
If you’re suggesting that every fielder’s job is the same and can each be accomplished by doing the same things, that’s completely false. Literally every position on the diamond faces different challenges that are unique to the position. The same isn’t true of the batter’s box. The reasoning for having the system broken down by position is fundamentally solid.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
I really want to trade Dex to CHW for Danks + Beckham.
Dex + prospects to get them.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Nov 17, 2011 5:47 PM MST up reply actions
I mean, he's right.
I’ve noticed we’ve been overvaluing a lot of our players this offseason, Dex definitely included.
We’re really banking on the hope that 2nd-half 2011 Dex is the real Dex from now on… I dunno.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Nov 17, 2011 5:50 PM MST up reply actions
Rockies to sign Brandon Wood.
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
Wonder if it’s a minor league deal…either way, fairly low-risk move with some reward possible, I’d imagine. I wanted the Braves to look into the possibility as a depth security measure for Chipper.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
I can pretty much guarantee it's a minor league deal.
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Nov 17, 2011 5:31 PM MST up reply actions
Let's hope Landsford can pull a winter miracle with him.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
From Jon Heyman:
Brandon wood agrees w/ #rockies (as @Ken_Rosenthal said). will receive 100 grand over minimum if he makes club
I like it no risk some upside
he will rake in CS
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
If by raking, you mean....
hit somewhere above his ML career .186 BA, I suppose so.
He Really Really Really
likes the PCL he had a .970 OPS in SL as a 23 YO SS
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
you or i could put up a .970 OPS in the PCL
and i for one am not 23 yet
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.
For some reason I thought you were closer to 43
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 17, 2011 7:32 PM MST up reply actions
Who needs Youkilis?
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 5:44 PM MST up reply actions
If we sign a Brandon a day for long enough
eventually we’re bound to end up with Brandon Phillips…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Nov 17, 2011 5:58 PM MST up reply actions
he of the .126/.225/.289 career line
man, i’m loving the aggressive offseason o’dowd’s putting together.
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.
November 17.
It’s November freaking 17th.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Nov 17, 2011 6:47 PM MST up reply actions
cmon, i just want to freak out a bit
don’t remind me that there’s plenty of time.
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.
NO.
You must not freak out. We’re talking about Dan O’Dowd and the Colorado Rockies here.
Lol.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Nov 17, 2011 11:29 PM MST up reply actions
It's just a minor-league deal.
I don’t see the downside, and I don’t see how this is any kind of indication going forward.
Just put this in the Mike Jacobs/Brad Eldred/Josh Fields category
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 17, 2011 7:36 PM MST up reply actions
Lets dream that he is a leg kick away from being our Vogelsong
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
This amuses me more than it should
Wood’s OPS+ in Pittsburgh last year: 73
In Los Angeles/Anaheim: negative zero. That’s what it says.
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 17, 2011 7:38 PM MST up reply actions
Does that mean that the universe bends around Wood.
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Nov 17, 2011 8:14 PM MST up reply actions
No, just curveballs, I think...
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Nov 17, 2011 8:21 PM MST up reply actions
JFK's Quote of the Day:
“I wouldn’t mind seeing someone erase my record of hitting into four triple plays.” ~Brooks Robinson
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
OT: Setting up FTP accounts for PRMLB
I just completely fried my site by one click of the wrong button. Damn cpanel. Luckily, I had everything backed up.
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com
OT: Tebow
that is all…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
Huh
Can I call him scrappy?
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 17, 2011 10:16 PM MST up reply actions
I call him a beautiful disaster...
to the long-term success of the Broncos.
As soon as teams get accustomed to gameplanning for Tebow, he’ll go the way of the Wildcat. Enjoy the wins while they last, but understand that each victory only promotes keeping this flawed strategy intact.
On the other hand, tremendously impressed with the defensive effort.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
Yes the Defense
thats what I can’t stand about the MHR. Most people there are so color blind that they think its all Tebow and they drink the Tebow kool aid everyday and think hes awesome. the reason we are winning is because of our defense
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Nov 18, 2011 9:15 AM MST up reply actions
Seriously
The only jersey I’d seriously consider purchasing right now is Von Miller’s… Tebow needs to show me 4 solid quarters (the way the defense has) before I’ll jump on the bandwagon.
Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 18, 2011 4:05 PM MST up reply actions
Brandon Wood is younger than Cole Garner
and barely older than Casey Weathers…
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 17, 2011 10:14 PM MST reply actions
So he still has time?
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
Hey, if I've learned anything from
guys like Bautista, Nelson Cruz, Andres Torres, it’s that anything is possible….but usually not in our farm system…
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
At least not with hitters
Belisle and de la Rosa are good examples.
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 17, 2011 10:20 PM MST up reply actions
And Cliff Lee!
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker


































