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Thursday Rockpile: Rockies could make mint by mining Miami

Roy Oswalt seems to be the Rockies primary target du jour, as the trade market continues to develop. Like Jeff Aberle indicated yesterday, despite his agents claim that the Rockies "have a shot," Oswalt seems unlikely to ultimately accept the Rockies bid. In fact, that very wording leaves me even more pessimistic that the pitcher has much intention of signing with Colorado. Until I'm proven wrong, I'll think this is a case of an agent and a player using the Rockies interest as leverage to up the bidding from other suitors.

One of those other suitors happens to be the Miami Marlins, who continue to be truly aggressive in their off-season pursuits, having made offers to Albert Pujols, Jose Reyes and Mark Buehrle already. The situation there is interesting to follow, as should Oswalt, Buehrle or C.J. Wilson sign with Miami or even Pujols or Reyes, Rockies targets Ricky Nolasco and Anibal Sanchez will become much more expendable. As it stands, however, the one pitcher most clearly on the outs with the Fish is Chris Volstad, who I've already indicated is the type of young undervalued pitcher that the Rockies should be targeting.

That said, though, with off season dreams dancing like sugar plums before us, why shouldn't the Rockies be able to trade for both Nolasco and Volstad? That would fill the veteran rotation void with Nolasco and give insurance against a Juan Nicasio setback with a young pitcher with plenty of upside in Volstad, all at a cost in salary of less than the $30 million it could take to sign Oswalt for two seasons (Nolasco's due $20.5 million over the next two years, Volstad's just entering his arbitration seasons.) As the non-tender deadline approaches, Volstad's market will develop, but he shouldn't come at the cost in prospects a more established pitcher like Nolasco would. Both Nolasco (as mentioned here) and Volstad are examples of the types of solid players that some teams will get impatient with after down seasons, and as such they are classic buy low opportunities. The same could be said of the Rockies other primary trade target of the season, Martin Prado, which added to Nolasco and the team's pursuits of Michael Young and Wandy Rodriguez over the past year show a distinct value mining pattern to the Rockies trade targets.

Star-divide

The Oswalt pursuit further illuminates one thing that's become clear, that the Rockies do have one eight digit salary to hand out this winter and still feel comfortable filling other team needs. The estimate Troy Renck gives in the first link above of two years for $30 million would fall into the same salary tier with an acquisition of Rodriguez from the Astros or David Wright from the Mets. This could be before the potential added savings in the form of a Huston Street trade are factored in, or the highly unlikely dump of Ty Wigginton and his salary on some unsuspecting chump.

***

With a Street trade, the Rockies are looking to acquire an MLB ready position player, and given interest from Toronto and Boston, they might be able to pull it off. I'm dreaming of Moises Sierra, a toolsy right handed hitting outfielder in the Toronto system from the Dominican that clicked in 2011, hitting 18 home runs for the New Hampshire Fisher Cats. Given the Rockies penchant for searching for talented players that teams have grown tired of, a Travis Snider for Street trade actually makes a lot of sense if it weren't that Snider was somewhat redundant to Seth Smith. Of course, if Smith gets moved in a Prado deal, that one issue clears up.

***

Speaking of left handed hitting outfielders, the Rockies have agreed to terms with former Twins minor leaguer Brandon Roberts, who would seem to fit as AAA depth at the moment. There's a bit of eye-rolling that goes on with minor league free agency signings like this, but they don't cost anything, not even the roster spot a Rule 5 selection would take, and there's often a fairly substantial upside if the team lands on the right player. Players like Carlos Pena, Andres Torres and Ryan Roberts all broke out after signing minor league free agent contracts.

***

Nolan Arenado was named the Arizona Fall League's Most Valuable Player yesterday, he becomes the first ever Rockies player so honored. The Rockies plan now has for Arenado to compete for a roster spot next Spring. Given Arenado's skills and learning curve to date, people should really stop thinking that there's no chance of this happening, and that if it does that it won't be a good thing. I'd say it's still less than 50% but we're probably in the 1 in 4 or even 1 in 3 odds area right now that he wins the Opening Day third base job, and if he does, the Rockies are in a very good spot for 2012. In addition to clearing up the third base quagmire, Arenado living up to his potential could make it easier to carry dead weight at second.

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Where do you get that?

I didn’t see the Red Sox mentioned in that article.

by RoxnSox09 on Nov 17, 2011 9:15 AM MST up reply actions  

look again

He’s been a major league coach since 2004, when he was the 3B coach for the world champion Red Sox, and a Brewers coach since 2006.

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by Andrew Martin on Nov 17, 2011 9:19 AM MST up reply actions  

Step 1: Theo is forced to get rid of Francona.
Step 2: Theo starts looking for a manager to replace Francona in Boston.
Step 3: Theo goes to Chicago.
Step 4: Cherington takes Theo’s list and continues looking for a manager.
Step 5: Theo fires Quade.
Step 6: Theo takes his list and starts looking for a manager.
Step 7: Cherington calls back one guy for second interview with Red Sox: Dale Sveum.
Step 8: Theo hires Dale Sveum.

Unfortunately, I am herring that the Red Sox ownership didn’t like Sveum, so there weren’t competing offers. There could have been though. I am sure Theo knew it.

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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 9:20 AM MST up reply actions  

I was unaware of #7.

I’ll be happy to hear about any organization declaring war on the Red Sox, I just didn’t see much indication that that was happening.

by RoxnSox09 on Nov 17, 2011 9:24 AM MST up reply actions  

This article does;t say anything more than that they hired Sveum.

The rest of it comes from following the rest of the managerial searches.

But, I don’t doubt that Theo knew exactly what he was doing.

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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 9:27 AM MST up reply actions  

Also,

I think that Arenado being MVP of the AFL is premature. The AFL isn’t even over until Saturday. The news of this seemed to be generate by a Casey Weathers tweet that was considered the truth by Rizzo, but actually was not.

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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 7:45 AM MST reply actions  

To support this:

You think that that would have been mentioned here: http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/events/afl/index.jsp

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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 7:46 AM MST up reply actions  

No one else has received the attention Arenado has this AFL season..

he has become the MVP whether he he receives an actual award or not.

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by Charlie77 on Nov 17, 2011 8:31 AM MST up reply actions  

This is correct.

I think hat this is what Weathers was saying with this tweet. Nevertheless, it doesn’t make a report that he was named the MVP true. Although there is a good chance that he will be named MVP on Saturday.

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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 8:38 AM MST up reply actions  

That's not the MVP, it's a Sportsmanship Award..
the award has been given annually since ’04 to the player who best exemplifies unselfishness, hard work and leadership. The six were chosen for those qualities — which Stenson brought to the ballpark every day — rather than their statistics or on-field performances.

Statistically he is the MVP:

leads AFL with 46 hits, second with 17 extra-base hits, tied for league lead with 11 doubles, second with 75 total bases, third with a .404 average, tied for third with six home runs and fifth with a .658 slugging percentage … week four player-of-the-week after batting .429 (9-for-21) with 3 doubles, 3 home runs, 5 RBI and 4 runs scored in five
games …
Has hit safely in 25 of his 27 games with at least one RBI in 18 games …
only player in AFL with multiple four-hit games

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"Baseball is dull only to dull minds." ~ Red Barber

by Charlie77 on Nov 17, 2011 8:45 AM MST up reply actions  

I didn't say it was. The MVP is the Joe Black Award, I think.

The MVP will also be given on Saturday if they do it as they have traditionally done.

I am not arguing that he doesn’t deserve the MVP. I’m just noting that he has not been named the MVP yet. I think most people like to make sure that they are reporting accurate information. SInce he has not yet been named MVP, the report that he was named MVP is inaccurate, even if he does win it.

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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 8:49 AM MST up reply actions  

Is it just me or is spending $15 mil a year on a pitcher who has a

bad back and is past his prime kinda a dumb idea

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 7:52 AM MST reply actions  

I just think of the things we could have for $15 mil a year

and I get pissed at the idea…

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 8:02 AM MST up reply actions  

A lot of the money spent on starting pitching is over-the-top crazy

But the problem is, that’s how the market is set. So you if don’t want to overpay, your own guys damn well better pan out.

Somebody will roll the dice on Oswalt, and it most likely won’t be the Rockies. But the Rockies are going to overpay for some starting pitching this winter, either in salary or in trade. The alternative is to slug it out with the Padres for 4th place, again.

by Northsider1964 on Nov 17, 2011 8:12 AM MST up reply actions  

I would love to have Oswalt for two years..

He would provide a bridge to the development of our younger pitching prospects. Even in an injured year he started 26 games, only Hammel (27) and Chacin (31) started more in Colorado and his FIP (3.44) was near his career FIP (3.35).

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by Charlie77 on Nov 17, 2011 8:53 AM MST up reply actions  

And he's only a year removed

From being great down the stretch for the Phillies in 2010. So I would love to have him too, I just don’t see the Rockies being the top bidder.

by Northsider1964 on Nov 17, 2011 8:57 AM MST up reply actions  

Aaron Cook and Ubaldo's contracts are off the books for 2012..

that’s at least $13 million that the Rockies can spend on a pitcher.

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"Baseball is dull only to dull minds." ~ Red Barber

by Charlie77 on Nov 17, 2011 9:09 AM MST up reply actions  

Yeah it could happen

And I’ll be excited if it does. But I just don’t think he’ll end up here.

by Northsider1964 on Nov 17, 2011 9:54 AM MST up reply actions  

Hello, friends. This is Jim Nantz Franchise 26. I haven’t been posting much around here lately, but I found some time to bless the mic and do a little roster critiquing in a thing I wrote for you all. Please do enjoy.

THING I WROTE CLICKY HERE

"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton

by Franchise26 on Nov 17, 2011 8:18 AM MST reply actions  

good piece

But 2012 will be a disaster of A year if a Padres middle infielder is on our rotation depth chart

"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
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by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 17, 2011 9:21 AM MST via mobile up reply actions  

Dammit,

I need to fire his editor.

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by Russ Oates on Nov 17, 2011 9:29 AM MST up reply actions  

Nice fix

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by Charlie77 on Nov 17, 2011 9:36 AM MST up reply actions  

In the article you mention the strength of the bullpen..

does that mean you’re against the idea of trading Huston Street?

Colorado Rockies Players on Twitter

"Baseball is dull only to dull minds." ~ Red Barber

by Charlie77 on Nov 17, 2011 9:29 AM MST up reply actions  

I think I touched on that in the article, but yeah, I don’t think we should deal Huston, because I don’t think we’re highly likely to replace his production with the organizational alternatives. Plus, I like him and want him to have a good year. But I understand that the arguments for moving him are compelling as well.

"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton

by Franchise26 on Nov 17, 2011 9:31 AM MST up reply actions  

I think that’s more hope than expectation when you’re talking about the Escalona-Weathers-Scahill group of upper-level minor leaguers who have a shot at breaking with the big club.

"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton

by Franchise26 on Nov 17, 2011 9:36 AM MST up reply actions  

Escalona had a nice run last season..

I would like to see how he performs in smaller innings where he can just rear back and fire. The only thing about him that wasn’t impressive was his k/9 (4.91), but I think it was hurt by the length of innings he pitched. Typically in the minors he was called into the game dring high leverage situations late in the game and his k/9 was a lot higher (+9.0).

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"Baseball is dull only to dull minds." ~ Red Barber

by Charlie77 on Nov 17, 2011 9:47 AM MST up reply actions  

Good piece

Outside of shortstop, right field, and center field (Dexter Fowler’s domain after a hot second half), there are no definite slots filled for the Opening Day lineup in 2012.

I would argue first is pretty well covered too, although the amount of production may still be up for debate.

"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
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JFK

by jrockies on Nov 17, 2011 5:52 PM MST up reply actions  

PR Cares is going to donate money today to the Mike Coolbaugh Foundation..

If someone would like to be sponsored to play in the golf tournament please respond to this post within the next hour.

Fifth annual Mike Coolbaugh Memorial Tournament gets under way at noon at Canyon Springs Golf Course in San Antonio. Cost is $125 per player for the shotgun start, which includes, golf, lunch (Las Palapas) and dinner (Outback Steakhouse). Register at: www.coolbaughmemorial.com.

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"Baseball is dull only to dull minds." ~ Red Barber

by Charlie77 on Nov 17, 2011 8:28 AM MST reply actions  

I interrupt this Martin Prado debate, to announce a donation by Purple Row Cares:

Along with the funds I sent this email:

I just sent a donation of $125 from the baseball fans at Purplerow.com, we’re all huge Colorado Rockies fans and we raised money over the summer auctioning off augraphed merchandise by Troy Tulowitzki and Carlos Gonzalez so we could give to this cause. I wish we could give more.

I also want to thank everyone who bid on the merchandise this summer. Every bid added to the amount we were able to give to the Coolbaugh family and their charity which helps support young widows and their families.

Colorado Rockies Players on Twitter

"Baseball is dull only to dull minds." ~ Red Barber

by Charlie77 on Nov 17, 2011 10:17 AM MST up reply actions  

Well Done :)


In all things, it is better to hope than despair.

by butterfly on Nov 17, 2011 10:23 AM MST up reply actions  

this is very cool

please do this again (ball auction). I bid but didn’t win and I want another shot.

Purplerowcares RULES. Tell us again how we can contribute to this…

The Big Purple Machine will make a believer outta you!

by El Paso Jeff on Nov 17, 2011 2:44 PM MST up reply actions  

Follow this link

http://www.cafepress.com/purplerowcares

and buy stuff. Proceeds go to the charity of our choice

"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK

by jrockies on Nov 17, 2011 5:54 PM MST up reply actions  

Thanks for doing this Charlie77

"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK

by jrockies on Nov 17, 2011 5:52 PM MST up reply actions  

So we like Youk who is due 12 million this year

and has a 13 million dollar option next year, I would much rather have Youk and Prado for around 16 million than Oswalt. What would it take to get both? Assuming Street and maybe one of Story/Herrera and an arm for youk, Smith and Wheeler for Prado and a young arm? See if the Marlins post FA signings will move Volstad for say Gardner, EY2 and a low A pitcher.

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Nov 17, 2011 8:36 AM MST reply actions  

We like Youk?

No thanks.

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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 8:39 AM MST up reply actions  

As a Super Wiggy I would love Youk

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Nov 17, 2011 8:44 AM MST up reply actions  

Gonna need some elaboration on that

Youkilis is a damn fine ballplayer, and better than any 3B candidate we’re talking about.

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by Andrew Martin on Nov 17, 2011 8:49 AM MST up reply actions  

Purple Row Reasoning: He played for the Red Sox; ergo, he’s a douchebag. Do I have that right?

"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton

by Franchise26 on Nov 17, 2011 8:52 AM MST up reply actions  

Petro usually doesn't go that route

But I’ll be honest, that’s one of my 2 pauses, the other being the fact that he’s missed a decent amount of time over the past 2 seasons

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by Andrew Martin on Nov 17, 2011 8:53 AM MST up reply actions  

(and by it’s my pause, I mean I don’t wanna deal with THAT lashback)

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by Andrew Martin on Nov 17, 2011 8:54 AM MST up reply actions  

I agree abou the injuries but Aramis Ramirez, Martin Prado and David Wright have had

their own injury issues

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Nov 17, 2011 8:56 AM MST up reply actions  

Prado is 1/3 of the cost.

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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 8:58 AM MST up reply actions  

Prado has an excellent 2B wOBA

at third it isn’t quite as impressive, why not get both? Maybe we can even dump Wiggy on the Sox

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Nov 17, 2011 9:02 AM MST up reply actions  

Sure. But that means we are going to need to trade away a lot of prospects and spend a lot of money. I only want to do that if we are going to be certain contenders. With just those two, we still have an uncertain rotation and a hole in the OF that will also need to be filled.

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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 9:04 AM MST up reply actions  

In my head Blackmon and a leftie killer OF can nail down the LF spot fine

Our rotation couldn’t be that much worse than 07, our bullpen is deep and among the best in the league. We have top 10 MLB hitters at 1B(maybe) SS, RF, solidly above average hitters at CF, C adding Prado and Youklis would make a bench of Field/Herrera/Nelson, Giambi, Pacheco, Rosario and RH OF(Andruw Jones would be ideal, I could live with Gomes) I think that is a team that can win the NL West. The Cardinals just went to the WS in a Season where Kyle Lohse, Jake Westbrook, and Kyle Mcclellan were among their leaders in innings pitched

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Nov 17, 2011 9:20 AM MST up reply actions  

Blackmon swings at everything remember

we were still waiting for that to catch up to him when he got hurt

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 9:30 AM MST up reply actions  

If our lineup was

C Iannetta
1B Todd/Giambi
2B Prado
3B Youk
SS Tulo
RF Gonzalez
CF Fowler

then Charlie can have all the growing pains he needs to, especially if we could get Andruw Jones

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Nov 17, 2011 9:33 AM MST up reply actions  

So has Tulo

everybody gets injured

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 8:58 AM MST up reply actions  

Youk will be 33 on opening day

and Injury problems don’t get better with age.

That said, it’d give me pause. Doesn’t nix the appeal to me.

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by Andrew Martin on Nov 17, 2011 9:01 AM MST up reply actions  

Youk is one month older than Adrian Beltre, one year older than Aramis

Beltre is about to enter the second year of a 6 year contract, Aramis definite gets 3/45 might get 5/60 getting a legit 380 wOBA 3B for about what we were paying aaron cook who has a career 146 wRC+ against LHP sounds awesome to me.

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Nov 17, 2011 9:09 AM MST up reply actions  

Agree I am wondering if the career 28.3 UZR that he doesn't care for or the career .383 wOBA

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Nov 17, 2011 8:55 AM MST up reply actions  

that uzr isn't accurate

The table you pulled that from doesn’t include 1997-2001. His career fielding is over 55 runs.

"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
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by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 17, 2011 9:33 AM MST via mobile up reply actions  

Two things:

1) $13 million for one year if we don’t pick up the option. Is 2012 the year in which this type of an expenditure is worth it? We also think that it is going to be one year because we have Arenado coming down the pike.

2) Although he was still much better this year than anything we have had at 3B for a long time, he suffered a significant drop off and seems to be aging pretty rapidly. I’d hate to be paying $13 million for a middle-of-the-road glove and a 110–120 OPS+ unless that 110–120 was what was going to push us over the top. At this point, we need a few more pieces to show that that money would be worth it, and I don;t see us getting all of those pieces.

So, I’m not interested.

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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 8:57 AM MST up reply actions  

Thats the thing though

we can nit pick every dad gum FA out there about being old or dropping off, but the truth is that the FA’s who aren’t old and who haven’t dropped off lately are Prince Fielder Jose Reyes and Albert Pujols and we aren’t getting those. So we have to take a chance sooner or later though

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 9:00 AM MST up reply actions  

exactly

Even Fielder has big flaws.

"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 17, 2011 9:02 AM MST via mobile up reply actions  

so does Reyes, and Pujols had a pretty big drop himself

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Nov 17, 2011 9:10 AM MST up reply actions  

He's not an FA. But I'm voting for later.

Because we don’t just need a 3B. If we can fill 2B, OF, and fix up the rotation, and we still have something to trade for Youk, then I’d take the risk. But I don’t think that all of those things are going to happen.

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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 9:02 AM MST up reply actions  

Good points

If I may,

1) I really, really wish we had a clearer image on whether the FO really thinks they’re competing in 2012 or building in 2012. If the former, then costs be damned and let’s go for it. If the latter, you’re absolutely right. Don’t waste the fundage.

2) The dropoff is concerning, but he was still a 126 wRC+ with a .373 OBP, and that’s after a career-low .296 BABIP – that is to say, his batting average SHOULD rebound, especially in this particular park. There’s the risk of continued decline, but there’s risk in anything, honestly.

But overall, yeah, if we get the 1 guy and consider the offseason finished, it’d be a poor choice.

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by Andrew Martin on Nov 17, 2011 9:04 AM MST up reply actions  

And since this would also need to be a trade,

I think it’s difficult to say that we would:

1) Trade for Youk.
2) Trade for Prado.
3) Sign an everyday OF.
4) Sign or trade for rotation help.

Youk is the least long-term solution for these four moves. I think he comes last, if at all.

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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 9:07 AM MST up reply actions  

Yes trade for Youk, our tram doesn't have enough punchable faces.

"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"

/it is a new beginning, right?

by The Lodo Magic Man on Nov 17, 2011 9:11 AM MST via mobile up reply actions  

I like the idea of us having a tram.

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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 9:12 AM MST up reply actions  

Isn't Youk like a big ass hole?

Like in the clubhouse? Any articles or conspiracy theory articles on the guy?

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 9:12 AM MST up reply actions  

We need one or two of those

There are too many nice guys on the team.

Nice guys finish next to last.

by maris61 on Nov 17, 2011 9:14 AM MST up reply actions  

yeah this team needs an F’IN attitude/swagger, 2011 they seemed like a bunch of pussies scared of the expectations

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 9:15 AM MST up reply actions  

Tulo would like a word

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by SDcat09 on Nov 17, 2011 9:42 AM MST up reply actions  

yeah but I’m at work and am lazy

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 9:17 AM MST up reply actions  

because of Wall Street

apparently

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 9:29 AM MST up reply actions  

this isn't about his personality, but it's funny:
During Youk’s rookie season of 2004, Boston manager Terry Francona was asked about the Greek God of Walks label. His response was, “I’ve seen him in the shower, and I wouldn’t call him the Greek god of anything.”

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1115795/index.htm

the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.

by papality on Nov 17, 2011 9:47 AM MST up reply actions  

no he is not an asshole

MOZGOD Enthusiast Member 71
Original Thugget Loyalists Member 71
@Garrett_Olsen

by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 12:02 PM MST up reply actions  

Yes trade for Youk, our team doesn't have enough punchable faces.

"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"

/it is a new beginning, right?

by The Lodo Magic Man on Nov 17, 2011 9:11 AM MST via mobile up reply actions  

neither does our tram

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Nov 17, 2011 9:12 AM MST up reply actions  

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

The fingers you have used to type, are too fat.

To order a special typing wand, please mash the keyboard now.

"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"

/it is a new beginning, right?

by The Lodo Magic Man on Nov 17, 2011 9:18 AM MST via mobile up reply actions  

I will say this though,

I guess I’m wrong. We like Youk. I just don’t like Youk. :P

Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com

by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 9:00 AM MST up reply actions  

lf l remember correctly...Cat agrees wth you


In all things, it is better to hope than despair.

by butterfly on Nov 17, 2011 9:02 AM MST up reply actions  

You are correct.

I invoke the law of plain ole irrational dislike. Nothing else. Just that.

Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Nov 17, 2011 10:03 AM MST up reply actions  

Wth?

@CentralCaliRox

by CentralCaliRox on Nov 17, 2011 9:27 AM MST via mobile up reply actions  

But if we trade Street that's only a net payroll increase this year of what? $4M?

"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"

/it is a new beginning, right?

by The Lodo Magic Man on Nov 17, 2011 9:07 AM MST via mobile up reply actions  

if we can dump Wiggy that increase is nil

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Nov 17, 2011 9:12 AM MST up reply actions  

Youk makes great sense:

1-year commitment
Eases pressure on Arenado
RIGHT-HANDED platoon w/ Helton, perhaps for enough games to keep Helton in decent
    shape the whole season. (Giambi can’t do that — weak defense & left-handedness.)
If Youk bounces back from his injury-plagued 2011, exercise the option & use him as the
    primary 1B in 2013, by which time Helton really needs to be put in a part-time role.
    (Helton becomes Giambi in 2013.)

The guy’s a stud when healthy — consistent Scott Rolen-type production. The Rockies really need someone like that.

It also gives them some leverage in the Prado talks. With Youk at 3B, the need to upgrade offensively at 2B diminishes, and the Rockies can fall back on Herrera/Nelson/Field if Atlanta asks too much for Prado

by maris61 on Nov 17, 2011 9:19 AM MST up reply actions  

I have a lot of trouble believing that Youk would take a one-year deal. Or that a one-year deal would be the best offer he could get. But in a world where he would take one year, the Rockies should absolutely make him a priority.

"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton

by Franchise26 on Nov 17, 2011 9:21 AM MST up reply actions  

He’s not an FA.

Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com

by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 9:23 AM MST up reply actions  

Man, I’m out of the loop completely. Oops.

"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton

by Franchise26 on Nov 17, 2011 9:25 AM MST up reply actions  

/insert Nebraska joke

Colorado Rockies Players on Twitter

"Baseball is dull only to dull minds." ~ Red Barber

by Charlie77 on Nov 17, 2011 9:51 AM MST up reply actions  

/insert CU’s record

-C

It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?

by cthabeerman on Nov 17, 2011 12:07 PM MST up reply actions  

Boom Roasted.

As a CU alum, this is both hilarious and depressing.

Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...

by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 17, 2011 12:18 PM MST up reply actions  

/insert corncob

We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!

In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener

by Junction Rox on Nov 17, 2011 12:33 PM MST up reply actions  

Nowledge

Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...

by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 17, 2011 12:59 PM MST up reply actions  

That was always my favorite Nebraska joke.

First heard it from an Econ prof at CU.

But Ty Wigginton is an All-Star ?!?!

by DAWNMARIE01 on Nov 17, 2011 1:18 PM MST up reply actions  

Huck the Fuskers

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 1:19 PM MST up reply actions  

But probably less sad about the not having to walk home with that shirt on after a loss…

-C

It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?

by cthabeerman on Nov 17, 2011 1:28 PM MST up reply actions  

When I was at CU we won every year.

And also had beer at the games.

But Ty Wigginton is an All-Star ?!?!

by DAWNMARIE01 on Nov 17, 2011 1:35 PM MST up reply actions  

it was the summer of 69

Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.

by frightened inmate #2 on Nov 17, 2011 1:40 PM MST up reply actions  

Hey, I'm not THAT old.

But Ty Wigginton is an All-Star ?!?!

by DAWNMARIE01 on Nov 17, 2011 1:41 PM MST up reply actions  

Good times.

But you couldn’t sit in the frat-boy section unless you wanted to be pelted by plastic cups with 1/2 in of beer still in them. After the first game we sat by the band from then on.

But Ty Wigginton is an All-Star ?!?!

by DAWNMARIE01 on Nov 17, 2011 1:40 PM MST up reply actions  

Colorado’s never won four straight, so you either weren’t a four-year student or graduated a year early.

2001-04 is the only time Colorado had a running total of 3 wins out of 4, unless you go back to the 60s…if your statement is truthful, you’ve pegged yourself at a couple years younger than I. I’ll point out that the Huskers have gone 23-7

in my lifetime. I’ll take it.

-C

It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?

by cthabeerman on Nov 17, 2011 2:17 PM MST up reply actions  

Yeah but they still have to live in Nebraska

I would rather be 7-93

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Nov 17, 2011 2:25 PM MST up reply actions  

Ha!

But Ty Wigginton is an All-Star ?!?!

by DAWNMARIE01 on Nov 17, 2011 2:30 PM MST up reply actions  

I couldn't agree with this more

Nebraska will always be able to make the “scoreboard” argument… CU will always have the Flatirons

Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...

by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 17, 2011 2:33 PM MST up reply actions  

Im half Buffs half Hawks fan

I can still wear it!

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 1:33 PM MST up reply actions  

Send it to me

My alma mater plays them in two weeks.

Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.

by Thnikkaman on Nov 17, 2011 1:42 PM MST up reply actions  

That's going to be fun...

Should be back in Lincoln for that game.

-C

It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?

by cthabeerman on Nov 17, 2011 2:18 PM MST up reply actions  

Nothing

It’s a label for what is contained in their football helmets.

Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.

by Thnikkaman on Nov 17, 2011 1:41 PM MST up reply actions  

he is already on a one year deal for 2012 with a club option for 2013

so we have a huge upside reward if he can return to form

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Nov 17, 2011 9:24 AM MST up reply actions  

he's under contract for just 2012

He comes with a one year deal

"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 17, 2011 9:24 AM MST via mobile up reply actions  

well yes, but its not a player option

So It’s just a one year commitment

"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 17, 2011 9:27 AM MST via mobile up reply actions  

Cot's Contracts confirms that

So from the Rockies’ perspective, a 1-yr commitment at $12 mil, with a $13 mil option year & a $1 mil buyout.

If he bounces back to prior form (see Beltre, Adrian), the $13 mil is a no-brainer and a real bargain. If not, $1 mil is a cheap buyout.

Do it. Offer them Street & Smith (DH material, with Ortiz possibly leaving) & a prospect.

by maris61 on Nov 17, 2011 9:31 AM MST up reply actions  

Then we are out of the Prado deal.

And I’d prefer Prado.

Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com

by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 9:33 AM MST up reply actions  

But that one-year impact will be meaningless

with a hole in the OF and 2B, and a weak rotation.

Prado is a longer-term solution at a lower cost.

Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com

by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 9:36 AM MST up reply actions  

Prado has two years left so does Youk

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Nov 17, 2011 9:38 AM MST up reply actions  

We've got a 3B coming up.

We have nothing at 2B. Plus, the second year for Prado will be a lot cheaper.

The point is really about the holes though. We have too many holes to fill to blow everything on one guy.

Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com

by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 9:40 AM MST up reply actions  

Rutledge isn't as close to MLB ready as Arenado?

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Nov 17, 2011 10:51 AM MST up reply actions  

I’ll let you know when he plays a game at 2B. ;)

Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com

by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 10:53 AM MST up reply actions  

nope

"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 17, 2011 10:54 AM MST via mobile up reply actions  

I would assume both are 2013 targets with potential 2012 september call ups

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Nov 17, 2011 11:00 AM MST up reply actions  

Rutledge is a year behind Arenado, I think. DOD isn’t mentioning Arenado in STH conference calls.

Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com

by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 11:02 AM MST up reply actions  

I guess it depends on his performance at AA

if both are hitting .340 in June, Chris Nelson had better pack his bags

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Nov 17, 2011 11:05 AM MST up reply actions  

Not necessarily.

The difference between Nelson/Herrera and 2010 Prado is HUGE. Prado is a gamble, albeit a smaller one than Youk

@CentralCaliRox

by CentralCaliRox on Nov 17, 2011 9:37 AM MST via mobile up reply actions  

Seriously?

Are you saying that Youk’s salary being twice Prado’s makes him the higher risk? Cuz as baseball players they aren’t in the same universe. Prado was really bad last year and is a big risk to be the same this year.

by BostonTransplant on Nov 17, 2011 10:06 AM MST via mobile up reply actions  

Youk's salary is triPle Prado's

And it’s not like Youk has been very healthy lately either.

But man, that OBP.. Yum

@CentralCaliRox

by CentralCaliRox on Nov 17, 2011 11:16 AM MST via mobile up reply actions  

Youkilis is a much higher risk...

As mentioned, the contract is for a minimum of $13MM to $4.5MM for Prado…if you include 2013, the disparity is greater, coming in at $25MM v. a max of about $12MM even if Prado has a killer 2012.

Prado’s injury last season was medical rather than of the baseball variety. Even with his DL stint (and a half, got injured with just a game or two left in the regular season) in 2010, he played in 140 games. Prado plays everyday when he’s healthy…and when he’s not healthy, as witnessed by his 2011. He had a surgically-opened wound on his leg that had to be left open and cleaned out daily…and was back playing baseball four weeks later, and back in the big leagues in five weeks.

Martin will be 29, and there’s no evidence that suggests his future is incredibly risky…he’s rather unlikely to reaggravate a staph infection, after all.

Meanwhile, Youk has sat games for these injuries in the past three years: ankle sprain, achilles tendonitis, thumb, hernia, back (non-hernia), oblique, and calf. He’s going to be 33, and he’s played fewer games than Chipper Jones in the past three years. DRS and UZR both suggest his defensive prowess is deteriorating, and it’s pretty easy to point to age and injuries to suggest that this trend will continue.

Now, if you want to talk reward, I’ve no qualms with saying that Youk has the most upside. That should be obvious to everyone.

When you start adding in the cost of trading for him as well, an injured Youkilis is pretty frightening. That said, a healthy Youk will terrify opponents.

-C

It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?

by cthabeerman on Nov 17, 2011 12:46 PM MST up reply actions  

youk would only need to provide 5 WAR over 2 seasons to be worth that

chances are very good could provide well over twice that much

the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.

by papality on Nov 17, 2011 12:48 PM MST up reply actions  

Sure...

If he’s healthy. Even if he continues playing at a 120 games/season clip, he’ll provide approximately +3 WAR than he’s getting paid for, with similar production. If he’s healthier, you can probably plug him in at 4.5-5.5 WAR/year at his age, for a top-end of +4-6 WAR over salary.

The worry comes from the chance that Youk’s less healthy, which is a legitimate concern with a player in his mid-30s with an extensive history of injuries.

If Prado’s healthy, the 2.2 WAR is impossible to miss. Coming into his prime, let’s say he’s equal to his best year, best-case scenario, and is a 3.5-4.5 WAR player at 2B/3B (his WAR will actually be higher at 3B because he’s a better defender there and the position adjustments are equal).

There’s plenty of precedent to suggest that a 28-year-old (FYI, I was wrong on his age in my previous post) could exceed those numbers, but I won’t be that optimistic.

His best case scenario is a little better than Youkilis’, coming in at +5-7 WAR for those two years, without factoring in the possibility of a career-best season.

-C

It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?

by cthabeerman on Nov 17, 2011 1:17 PM MST up reply actions  

He'd also be a type A

- with the CBA looking less likely that it will really strip out Type A compensation, this is still important…

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Nov 17, 2011 11:36 AM MST up reply actions  

Type will stick but only for Top FA from what I understand

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Nov 17, 2011 11:44 AM MST up reply actions  

that's what it's looking like

Unless he’s injured or declines rapidly, Youk should be able to maintain that..

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Nov 17, 2011 11:46 AM MST up reply actions  

Froma Cots

4 years/$41.125M (2009-12), plus 2013 club option
signed extension with Boston 1/16/09 (avoided arbitration)
$1M signing bonus
09:$6M, 10:$9.125M, 11:$12M, 12:$12M, 13:$13M club option ($1M buyout)
award bonuses: $50,000 each for All Star, Gold Glove, Silver Slugger, LCS MVP; $0.1M for WS MVP; $0.1M for MVP ($75,000 for 2nd in vote, $50,000 for 3rd)

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Nov 17, 2011 9:28 AM MST up reply actions  

He's got a year left on his contract, with a team option for 2013

as I understand it. So it’s not his choice, unless he has trade veto rights.

And who wouldn’t want out of Boston at the moment?

by maris61 on Nov 17, 2011 9:24 AM MST up reply actions  

He doesn't have 10/5 rights yet so it is up to them(it would kind of leave a gaping hole at 3B)

but they have some interest in moving him from what I have heard

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Nov 17, 2011 9:27 AM MST up reply actions  

I was thinking more..

Trade for Youk, watch him have a good year, go to playoffs, exercise the option, trade him for prospects.

@CentralCaliRox

by CentralCaliRox on Nov 17, 2011 9:35 AM MST via mobile up reply actions  

If he rakes in 2012, then by the deadline in 2013 he can still be moved for value or kept for picks

either way big upside in acquiring him

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Nov 17, 2011 9:36 AM MST up reply actions  

The Helton platoon thing is really big for me

It gives the Rockies options, and I like options.

Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 17, 2011 9:47 AM MST up reply actions  

I will say this.

If you could move Youk to 1B in the Death of Todd scenario, he could work out as a meaningful long-term solution. But, it should not be the first name on our lists. There are too many ifs there (IF Todd sucks, IF Arenado sucks). I’d rather this be the last move we make in a lock to compete rather than the first move that leaves us with holes up and down the lineup.

Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com

by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 9:50 AM MST up reply actions  

If Todd and Youk both hit while Arenado tears up AA (therefore blocking him)

It’s a problem I’ll gladly see the Rockies address when we get to it. Youk makes it so we only need two of those players to perform well to be set at both corner infield positions. With SS, two outfield positions, and catcher likely all being average to above average, that closes a lot of holes on this team.

Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 17, 2011 9:56 AM MST up reply actions  

1) Fowler
2) Nelson
3) Cargo
4) Tulo
5) Youkilis
6) Helton
7) Blackmon
8) Ianetta

This is not that promising of a lineup.

Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com

by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 9:58 AM MST up reply actions  

I like

1) Fowler
2) Prado
3) Cargo
4) Tulo
5) FA Outfielder
6) Todd
7) Ian/Nolan
8) Ianetta

Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...

by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 17, 2011 10:04 AM MST up reply actions  

I'd do this:

1) Fowler
2) Prado
3) Cargo
4) Tulo
5) Youk
6) Todd
7) Blackmon/FA
8) Ianetta

But that hole at the top and bottom of the order is big with just a Youkilis acquisition and a reliance on Todd to have another great year. That’s why Youk is good as the last piece, but not the first or only piece.

Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com

by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 10:07 AM MST up reply actions  

Yes

the only way I’d be upset with acquiring Youk would be if it got in the way of getting a 2b and a decent power bat in the OF

Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...

by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 17, 2011 10:08 AM MST up reply actions  

No

Youkilis means you don’t NEED Todd to have another great year – especially if Arenado comtinues to climb the latter. You can slide him over to 1B in that scenario.

The reason he fits this team well is he provides a strong option at two positions the Rockies either do or may have question mark at.

Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 17, 2011 10:13 AM MST up reply actions  

But he can’t play both positions at the same time.

Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com

by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 10:14 AM MST up reply actions  

So when he's not at third

You’re either playing Ian, Nolan, or our wonderful plethora of in-house backup options (Nelson, Scraprerra, Wiggy)

Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...

by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 17, 2011 10:16 AM MST up reply actions  

If Todd is a problem.

 I mean, everything could work perfectly so that the only hole in the lineup is 2B, but I would want a better guarantee than “if everything works perfectly” for prospects and $13–25 million dollars. That’s all.

Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com

by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 10:19 AM MST up reply actions  

Agreed

Signing Youk works well if: Todd stays healthy. If Todd doesn’t stay healthy, signing Youk still works if: Arenado can hit with a competent bat at the ML level. That’s a lot of ifs.

Even if it works out perfectly, we still have a problem with the rotation and 2B.

Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...

by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 17, 2011 10:23 AM MST up reply actions  

And OF.

Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com

by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 10:26 AM MST up reply actions  

That too!

I was thinking of the acquisition of Youk in a void – in which case we wouldn’t have to part with Seth, which means (in OOTP terms) we’d only have a slight weakness in the outfield.

Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...

by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 17, 2011 10:35 AM MST up reply actions  

I will buy everyone on PR a beer

if Seth Smith is with this club next year.

Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com

by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 10:36 AM MST up reply actions  

Do I have to buy you a beer

if he gets traded?

Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...

by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 17, 2011 10:36 AM MST up reply actions  

Todd is secretly one of the bigger problems on this team.

If 2011 was his last year we’d all be salivating over the idea of acquiring Youk to play 1b. Instead we’re paying 5 mill to get ~115 games of high OBP, mediocre slugging at 1b. While the actual cost is certainly fine, the associated cost of preventing us from acquiring better options is problematic..

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Nov 17, 2011 11:41 AM MST up reply actions  

Sadly I think you're right

We can’t effectively plan to replace Todd, but we’re carrying a mediocre at best 1B who’s likely to miss a lot of games. Probably a good thing that it’s happening now and not in 2013 say.

by biondino on Nov 17, 2011 11:45 AM MST up reply actions  

Maybe best-case scenario

is that he has another decent year and then we come up with a full-time option at 1b for 2013 and Helton can replace Giambi though with more starts.

Technically, one of the bigger (emotional) reasons we’re carrying him is to give him a chance to win it all with the team. There’s a very real possibility that the best chance of that is with him as a backup player in 2013 – certainly not the most glorious, but given how much he’s achieved in every other facet I’m sure he can live with it should it occur…

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Nov 17, 2011 11:49 AM MST up reply actions  

79

The combined age of our 1st Baseman to start the year

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 12:19 PM MST up reply actions  

sooooo

still young enough to be Moyer’s 3rd child. Sweeeeeeeeeeet.

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Nov 17, 2011 12:21 PM MST up reply actions  

I think we all know that

just most of us aren’t willing to admit it

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 12:18 PM MST up reply actions  

Oh I totally get it

but part of me does think it’s funny how the Helton issue gets zero attention but yet we’re willing to have entire comment threads devoted to arguing about Giambi and his ‘25th-man-on-the-roster’ roster spot.

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Nov 17, 2011 12:22 PM MST up reply actions  

I want to bring up Helton

everyday, but figure I’ll just get yelled at and told to leave. He is the real hamstring to this whole issue. Take his $10 million off the books and let us use that to acuire a really solid hitting 1B and it helps ease the pain of 2nd and 3rd shortfalls. Instead because of our “shortfall” at 1B and lack of depndability from that position, we cannot afford a lack of production from 3rd and 2nd

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 12:28 PM MST up reply actions  

Helton is making $4.9M in 2012

You don’t crap on the best player in franchise history just to save $5M.

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by Andrew Martin on Nov 17, 2011 12:30 PM MST up reply actions  

it's true

and at that cost he’s making a profit for us.

does McBride have any future at 1b?

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Nov 17, 2011 12:31 PM MST up reply actions  

no

It's Jim Tracy's Fault.

by wolf213 on Nov 17, 2011 12:33 PM MST up reply actions  

sure

the sky sox have a vacancy

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by Andrew Martin on Nov 17, 2011 12:33 PM MST up reply actions  

burn

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Nov 17, 2011 12:34 PM MST up reply actions  

Lets not forget

he earned his salary last year with his play, and has earned his contract over his career.

by mkorpal on Nov 17, 2011 12:32 PM MST up reply actions  

I wasn't saying that we should

and I don’t propose we should either, but the lack of produciton at 1st base is hurting us

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 12:33 PM MST up reply actions  

I should say

its not typical production you want from 1st base from typical baseball standards that you have a sluggin first baseman

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 12:34 PM MST up reply actions  

what lack of production?

He hit over .300, had a good OBP, a SLG that leaves room to be desired, but a good batting line nonetheless. Giambi was quite good in his spelling of Helton.

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by Andrew Martin on Nov 17, 2011 12:34 PM MST up reply actions  

Thats awesome

but he played 124 games. Those are great stats for 160 games, but he only does it for 100-120

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 12:35 PM MST up reply actions  

Ok, so he played for 100-120

Giambi played a good chunk of the remainder and put up a good batting line. Colorado got a .851 OPS out of 1B last season. That’s 6th in the majors. I’m totally OK with that.

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by Andrew Martin on Nov 17, 2011 12:40 PM MST up reply actions  

I am too

but we are depending on the combined age of 79. Not exactly comforting to me. Take out Giambi game in Philly and he bats .246 with 10 HRs and 25 RBis

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 12:44 PM MST up reply actions  

That's a bit of a misleading statement

Take out that one game in Philly and Giambi bats .262/.358/.608, .965 OPS.

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by Andrew Martin on Nov 17, 2011 12:48 PM MST up reply actions  

It would have been .246/.353/.532

without that game

Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 17, 2011 12:54 PM MST up reply actions  

What are you using for your OBP calculation?

I’ve just been doing (H+BB+HBP)/PA and it got me .347

I hate calculating OBP.

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by Andrew Martin on Nov 17, 2011 1:06 PM MST up reply actions  

Oops

Failure on my part. When I added H+BB+HBP I wrote 52 instead of 51 and divided that by the 146 PA’s. Your number is correct.

Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 17, 2011 1:40 PM MST up reply actions  

err.

The 147 PA’s. Clearly I need to be more aware.

Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 17, 2011 1:41 PM MST up reply actions  

yeah sure it works both ways

didn’t add an HR’s or RBis to the

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 12:52 PM MST up reply actions  

It’s not even totally about the production – though his days off are problematic. It’s that he’s kind of screwing with succession planning to a degree. Though ultimately, this roster decision is probably more appropriately made after the 2012 season

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Nov 17, 2011 12:36 PM MST up reply actions  

The lack of production at 2B and 3B is hurting us

1B is not providing excess production to cover our glaring deficiencies at other positions.

We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!

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by Junction Rox on Nov 17, 2011 12:36 PM MST up reply actions  

Yes

exactly what i was trying to say

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 12:37 PM MST up reply actions  

this is kind of the difficulty

Helton’s performance is awesome – considering his age and his back issues, but there’s still something underwhelming about ‘hoping’ for 3 WAR from first base – particularly when your team got something like 0 WAR total out of 2b + 3b in 2011…

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Nov 17, 2011 12:38 PM MST up reply actions  

should have traded for jesus montero

the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.

by papality on Nov 17, 2011 12:39 PM MST up reply actions  

That being said

aside from Youkilis (and ignoring Pujols or Fielder), no one really makes sense. David Ortiz? His offense has been all over the place and his defense sucks. Other than that, it’s just Carlos Pena and scrap-heap Lyle Overbays

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Nov 17, 2011 12:39 PM MST up reply actions  

especially if the franchise's best player

was among the top 10 hitters at his position

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by TomCat009 on Nov 17, 2011 12:36 PM MST up reply actions  

haha why i don’t bring it up, its my opinion but know that its not welcome here concerning Helton

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 12:38 PM MST up reply actions  

Because it doesn’t have a lot of basis in fact. 2B and 3B production are below league average. 1B production with Helton/Giambi is above league average. 1B is not the problem.

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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 12:42 PM MST up reply actions  

after Helton retires

there’s literally no one in our system who looks likely to take over at 1b.

Kiel Roling? Kyle Parker?

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Nov 17, 2011 12:44 PM MST up reply actions  

Yes. But the argument was:
ake his $10 million off the books and let us use that to acuire a really solid hitting 1B and it helps ease the pain of 2nd and 3rd shortfalls. Instead because of our "shortfall" at 1B and lack of depndability from that position, we cannot afford a lack of production from 3rd and 2nd

This isn’t about the future. It is about today. And it is wrong.

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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 12:46 PM MST up reply actions  

How about it's neither right, nor wrong?

The 10 mill thing isn’t entirely correct, it’s about 5 mill per season – a value Helton can totally meet and beat. And we wouldn’t get much of a fix at 1b for 5 mill. However, it is correct that we’re getting slightly better than average production out of 1b which doesn’t help cover 3b and 2b ( and we don’t have enough production at other positions to really cover it effectively either)…

Also one could make the argument that if Helton had retired the team would have done something to address 1b at some point. It’s really a hypothetical but Helton’s presence isn’t entirely a non-issue. It’s something we can all live with for rational and emotional reasons but it is impeding our flexibility and putting a ceiling on our offensive production…

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Nov 17, 2011 12:52 PM MST up reply actions  

Sure I understand now the

nubmers are better than I thought. But it goes back to my thought about how pitchers approach the lineup. Tulo and Cargo are feared but nobody else is. Todd is not feared anymore. Nobody is behind Tulo to protect him. Its so hard to approach the Phillies, Yankees, or Red Sox, or Cards because they have 3 legit power threats at the plate and its hard to pitch around 3 guys because there are only 3 open bases. This is my biggest problem with the idea that we don’t have a 3rd legit power hitter to protect our 2 stars

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 12:57 PM MST up reply actions  

Yes.

But that’s not solely a 1B problem. The blame should lie with Stewart and Smith more than Todd.

That’s why Smith will not be playing here in 2012.

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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 1:04 PM MST up reply actions  

No. It's wrong.

The statement implies that if Albert Pujols had played 1B, we wouldn’t have had any reason to worry about 2B and 3B. Helton had 2.7 WAR. Even if Pujols had had 8 WAR (which he didn’t) and we forget about Giambi’s 1 WAR, that’s still only about 5 wins. We’re still a sub .500 club.

The problem isn’t 1B.

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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 1:01 PM MST up reply actions  

Depends how much stock

you put into stats and sabermetrics.

Im done. Helton is awesome and a Top 10 1st Baseman for as long as he wants to play

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 1:06 PM MST up reply actions  

whoa whoa whoa guy

don’t put words in everyone’s mouth here. No one said 1b is the only problem. The only reason this started is because I said I think Helton represents something of a ‘never discussed’ problem for the team because he’s unreliable and limits roster flexibility. Waterboy just questioned the allocation of money.

And no one said that if we had Pujols we wouldn’t have to worry about 2b and 3b, rather if we had Pujols it would help offset some of the lack of production from those positions (to the tune of 5WAR as you mentioned) while we still continue to look for upgrades/wait for minor league players to emerge. Don’t get it twisted homie.

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Nov 17, 2011 1:07 PM MST up reply actions  

I'm referring specifically to waterboy's quote
Instead because of our “shortfall” at 1B and lack of depndability from that position, we cannot afford a lack of production from 3rd and 2nd.

Your arguments about the future are valid. But this line from waterboy is not. And my reply to it is valid since I was demonstrating how even with the best production from 1B, 2B and 3B are still a problem.

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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 1:13 PM MST up reply actions  

agree

Its not a shortfall from a statistics side

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 1:14 PM MST up reply actions  

Next season

depending on how Helton does this season could get awkward…

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Nov 17, 2011 12:48 PM MST up reply actions  

The one who knows how to spell Kyle

appears to be the heir apparent right now…

We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!

In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener

by Junction Rox on Nov 17, 2011 1:05 PM MST up reply actions   1 recs

No

But he can play whichever position is a bigger need, and we can’t be 100% certain of what that is right now. Take a few very possible scenarios for this season where Youkilis is fairly healthy…..

1) Todd has another great year, Arenado needs most of the 2012 season finish polishing his talent.

Here Youk helps you because he vastly improves your 3B situation this season.

2) Todd’s back acts up and he needs significant time off, Arenado progresses quickly and becomes a solid option at 3B a couple of months into the season.

Here Youkilis helps you because he provides a strong option at 1B when Todd does down. I’d MUCH rather see Youkilis there everyday than Giambi.

3) Todd’s back acts up and he needs significant time off AND Arenado needs most of the 2012 season finish polishing his talent.

Here Youk helps you because he fills one of these two holes – And the best part, you get to choose which one he fills. This is really important if other things (let’s say the pitching staff) turns up roses for the Rockies and they are in contention at the trading deadine. Now they can fill either 1B or 3B in a trade and be all set at the corners

4) Todd has another great year AND Arenado progresses quickly and becomes a solid option at 3B a couple of months into the season.

Here you have an problem – Three guys, two spots. But it’s damn good problem to have.

Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 17, 2011 10:27 AM MST up reply actions   2 recs

This is both the most likely scenario, and the most problematic.
3) Todd’s back acts up and he needs significant time off AND Arenado needs most of the 2012 season finish polishing his talent.

Here Youk helps you because he fills one of these two holes – And the best part, you get to choose which one he fills. This is really important if other things (let’s say the pitching staff) turns up roses for the Rockies and they are in contention at the trading deadine. Now they can fill either 1B or 3B in a trade and be all set at the corners

What really happens here is that we have a hole at 3B, 2B, and OF. We had these same three holes this year, only now, we are paying $13–25 million dollars more to have them. Maybe the rotation does do better, but are the rotation and Youk going to add 20 wins by themselves? Probably not.

I think he’s fine, but only as a final piece.

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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 10:35 AM MST up reply actions  

In the "we have Youk" scenario (assuming the worst/#3 situation from above):

There are 3 holes: 1b/3b, 2b, Pitching

In the “we don’t have Youk, but do have Prado, Outfielder to be named, and SP to be named” scenario, there are 1 1/2: 1b and 3b (I’m giving Stewart rebounding/Nolan making a splash in the bigs 50% odds)

Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...

by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 17, 2011 10:50 AM MST up reply actions  

The Youkilis and Prado deals don't have to be mutually exclusive

Although I doubt we get both done.

Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 17, 2011 10:53 AM MST up reply actions  

Right on both counts.

This is why I favor Prado though. I think that we are still coming out of this offseason with holes. I’d rather have a hole at 3B than 2B. And I’d rather spend $5 million than $13 million.

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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 10:56 AM MST up reply actions  

I know

I’m just saying, between the Prado deal and the Youk deal I prefer Prado – leaves us more room in the budget to fill holes

Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...

by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 17, 2011 11:13 AM MST up reply actions  

In other words

read Petro’s post. We are in agreement.

Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...

by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 17, 2011 11:13 AM MST up reply actions  

This is where I kind of draw my line in the sand

If we go for one of these deals I actually want to push hard for both. I don’t mind giving up some pretty good propects if we can fill enough holes and have a solid shot at the postseason in 2012.

The one thing I absolutely do not want to do though is give up prospects to go halfway on 2012. (Make a good deal or two to fill a couple of holes but leave big questions at most other positions)

At that point, I’d rather hold onto my chips and be ready to have all our young players come on strong in 2013.

Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 17, 2011 11:18 AM MST up reply actions  

Sure.

But we didn’t lose Bettis and $13–25 million dollars to end up with 81 wins. That’s my point.

And we traded Street for something else.

So, we fight in 2012, but we destroy in 2013. If Youk is the last piece that helps us destroy in 2012, let’s do it! If he is going to leave us with other holes, then let’s pass and get ready for 2013.

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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 10:50 AM MST up reply actions  

But what if Youk bats

303 and hits 28 HR with 131 RBIs?

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 12:20 PM MST up reply actions  

If we don't fill the other holes,

he can hit .303 with 28 HR and have 90 RBIs.

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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 12:23 PM MST up reply actions  

The fact that I think he's fine as a final piece

is a big change. I see the light. I just really think that this team is further away than one acquisition, and the Youk acquisition is going to be pretty costly.

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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 10:40 AM MST up reply actions  

C'mon Petro: Iannetta. Two N's

Lol :P

I really like that lineup. Yes yes yes

@CentralCaliRox

by CentralCaliRox on Nov 17, 2011 11:17 AM MST via mobile up reply actions  

Where is Smith?

If you put him in there, there’s only one below average hitter.

Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 17, 2011 10:06 AM MST up reply actions  

He’s not going to be here next year.

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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 10:08 AM MST up reply actions  

But in your theoretical lineup

What did we get for him? Pitching?

Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...

by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 17, 2011 10:09 AM MST up reply actions  

Depends on which one, we either get Prado or pitching.

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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 10:10 AM MST up reply actions  

If we get Prado

Then Nelson in the 2-hole is fixed and I like your lineup a LOT more.

Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...

by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 17, 2011 10:11 AM MST up reply actions  

It is nice to have a legit hitter behind Tulo though

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 10:07 AM MST up reply actions  

not gonna happen

Youk is a fan favortite in Boston. He won’t get traded fro the same reason Helton won’t. Unless you give the Sox something they can’t refuse then maybe, but Huston Street? No. Throw in Wilin Rosario and a couple other prospects and they might listen.

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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 12:00 PM MST up reply actions  

2007

Helton for Youkilis (or was it Lowell) almost happened

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by jrockies on Nov 17, 2011 6:19 PM MST up reply actions  

Street for Youk its settled

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 9:29 AM MST reply actions  

Street and Wigginton for Youk.

Let’s be fair.

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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 9:31 AM MST up reply actions  

yeah Pawtucket needs a star too

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 9:35 AM MST up reply actions  

As much as I don't want Ty Wigginton in the same state as me

It’s a sacrifice, I am willing to make.

Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 17, 2011 9:49 AM MST up reply actions  

I don't think that's enough to get it done

Ortiz is gone, right?

Red Sox Nation meet your new DH: Seth Smith

by maris61 on Nov 17, 2011 9:33 AM MST up reply actions  

and JD Drew is gone

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 9:34 AM MST up reply actions  

good point

But not forgotten, I’ll bet. What a weird career he’s had.

by maris61 on Nov 17, 2011 9:35 AM MST up reply actions  

They're going to want prospects.

High-level ones too.

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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 9:38 AM MST up reply actions  

Ortiz is a free agent

I don’t think he has too many offers yet though so it’s a wait and see situation there.

Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 17, 2011 9:48 AM MST up reply actions  

Right.

We’re looking at a deal of Street and Bettis and another high-level prospect at least.

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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 9:51 AM MST up reply actions  

Remember that Heath Bell is out there to be had.

They don’t need to trade if they don’t want to. The only thing holding them back is giving up the draft pick.

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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 9:53 AM MST up reply actions  

Only if he declines Arb

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by TomCat009 on Nov 17, 2011 10:58 AM MST up reply actions  

The Rockies are not giving up Street and two high level propects for two years of Youkilis

Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 17, 2011 9:57 AM MST up reply actions  

They’re going to have to. The Red Sox don’t need to get rid of Youkilis and they don’t need Seth Smith. If they trade with us, it will be for prospects and Street.

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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 10:00 AM MST up reply actions  

Could Ty Wigginton

be considered a prospect?

Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...

by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 17, 2011 10:01 AM MST up reply actions  

That type of talent is almost never exchanged for two years of a player like Youkilis

Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 17, 2011 10:05 AM MST up reply actions  

Then what are they going to take?

Street for Youk straight up isn’t happening unless Cherington is an idiot.

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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 10:08 AM MST up reply actions  

I think it would be more a Street + one high prospect deal for the two sides to agree

The Red Sox are not looking to trade Youkilis but they are not 100% set on having him around either

Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 17, 2011 10:17 AM MST up reply actions  

Well, they don't HAVE to

they can always not make the deal at all. Which, at that price, is what I would prefer them to do..

We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!

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by Junction Rox on Nov 17, 2011 11:31 AM MST up reply actions  

This made me laugh out loud at work
or the highly unlikely dump of Ty Wigginton and his salary on some unsuspecting chump.

Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...

by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 17, 2011 9:34 AM MST reply actions  

Also, from the DP article
Stewart will be tendered a contract, but the Rockies are likely to trade him. Pittsburgh and Arizona were among the teams that had interest in July.

If we trade Ian to the D-backs, he will slay us 18 times a year.

Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...

by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 17, 2011 9:50 AM MST up reply actions  

Yes. Yes he will.

Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Nov 17, 2011 9:56 AM MST up reply actions  

He will likely end up an All-Star is my guess

but I see him more likely wearing a Pirates uniform

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 10:08 AM MST up reply actions  

Stewart and Street for Walker and.prospect and cash.

      2b filled Bucs have alot of OF prospects. Biggest plus is Tracy can’t tinker with Walker .Then offer to outright buy Youk.

"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana

by Oldfoagie on Nov 17, 2011 11:12 AM MST up reply actions  

LOL.

Wtf? We’re not getting Walker for Stewart and Street

@CentralCaliRox

by CentralCaliRox on Nov 17, 2011 11:18 AM MST via mobile up reply actions  

not to mention walker and prospect and cash

that is comical

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 12:21 PM MST up reply actions  

lmao.

This is my most common typo for some reason. I text it all the time.

About it*

@CentralCaliRox

by CentralCaliRox on Nov 17, 2011 1:21 PM MST up reply actions  

I do it all the time too

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 1:24 PM MST up reply actions  

ho boy, i knew this day was coming....

OK, when a man and woman love each other very much, they start to experience special feelings…

Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.

by frightened inmate #2 on Nov 17, 2011 1:23 PM MST up reply actions   1 recs

yes, pep pep?

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Nov 17, 2011 1:24 PM MST up reply actions  

Uh....

Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Nov 17, 2011 1:27 PM MST up reply actions  

why would they want stewart when they have pedro alvarez

the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.

by papality on Nov 17, 2011 11:14 AM MST up reply actions  

Why would anyone want Stewart?

    Maybe to replace Jones?

"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana

by Oldfoagie on Nov 17, 2011 11:17 AM MST up reply actions  

garrett jones, the outfielder?

that would make no sense at all

the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.

by papality on Nov 17, 2011 11:17 AM MST up reply actions  

He's spent a lot of time at 1b for them too.

    If I could get Walker for cheaper than Prado, and had more flexibility money wise, and could get rid of Stewart once and for all; I pull that trigger. We won’t get Alvarez. That’s DOD’s fantasy.

"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana

by Oldfoagie on Nov 17, 2011 11:27 AM MST up reply actions  

Lady's and gentleman Mark Reynolds 1.1

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Nov 17, 2011 10:59 AM MST up reply actions  

If we can't get Stewart out

we aren’t going to be getting anyone else out so I suppose it really wouldn’t matter at that point.

by Teekalong on Nov 17, 2011 11:08 AM MST up reply actions  

Unless we get something of real value, I say keep him....

He’s still too damn intriguing to just dump. One last look to see if he can pull it together, I say.

by evers44 on Nov 17, 2011 11:15 AM MST up reply actions  

Agreed

Although someday he might be 35 and I’ll be saying “give him one more look!”

Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...

by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 17, 2011 11:15 AM MST up reply actions  

nooo!

who the hell wants more wild cards?!!

2011 Rockies record when I am in attendance: 6-6

by pacified on Nov 17, 2011 11:05 AM MST up reply actions  

I do.

More meaningful baseball in September around he league is a good thing.

by evers44 on Nov 17, 2011 11:06 AM MST up reply actions  

well then...

isn’t it diluting the meaning of a 162 game season?

I do see what you mean about the divisions…

2011 Rockies record when I am in attendance: 6-6

by pacified on Nov 17, 2011 11:09 AM MST up reply actions  

err, what petro said about divisions

and RIRF is saying it makes the regular season MORE meaningful. I guess so. Until a team with 85 wins gets to the WS!

2011 Rockies record when I am in attendance: 6-6

by pacified on Nov 17, 2011 11:10 AM MST up reply actions  

An 83 win Cardinal team already got to and won the World Series in 2006

Based on past records, the second Wild Card team will almost always have more than 85 wins.

Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 17, 2011 11:12 AM MST up reply actions  

Usually it ends up around 88-90 wins

Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 17, 2011 11:13 AM MST up reply actions  

wow, in 2006! That's crazy.

today i learn.

2011 Rockies record when I am in attendance: 6-6

by pacified on Nov 17, 2011 11:14 AM MST up reply actions  

I love that winning the division will mean something again.

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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 11:07 AM MST up reply actions  

I do

Because it penalizes the Wild Cards teams and actually make the regular season more meaningful.

Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 17, 2011 11:09 AM MST up reply actions  

The we definitely should be making a push in Todd's final years

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Nov 17, 2011 11:05 AM MST up reply actions  

2013 is still a ways off for Todd

He’ll be 40 then. One reason I want the Rox to be aggressive this offseason is we could be looking at his last hurrah, especially if he has any back issues.

by evers44 on Nov 17, 2011 11:07 AM MST up reply actions  

Yep exactly

I’m torn because I think we need so many moves and so many things to go right to make a credible run, but at the same time I despise the thought of putting Todd out to pasture on a rebuild while Tulo and Cargo waste prime years.

Let’s go, DOD. Show some flash.

by Teekalong on Nov 17, 2011 11:10 AM MST up reply actions  

If it's June and the Rox are on the road to nowhere....

I’d swallow hard and think about moving Todd to a contender. The man deserves to retire with a World Series ring.

by evers44 on Nov 17, 2011 11:13 AM MST up reply actions  

Nah.

Even if you did you’d have a one in ten chance, at best, of guessing right. I think the career with one club, most beloved player ever thing is more of a thing.

by biondino on Nov 17, 2011 11:18 AM MST up reply actions  

let's ask ray bourque what his opinion is

the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.

by papality on Nov 17, 2011 11:22 AM MST up reply actions  

Of staying with his career club and retiring a hero (+ a 4% chance of winning a ring)

vs a 10% chance of winning a ring as a bench bat/DH for some Billy Big Bollocks team out west? OK.

by biondino on Nov 17, 2011 11:25 AM MST up reply actions  

so you think ray bourque regretted going to the avs and being a part of the 01 cup team,

and would rather have wallowed in futility on a shit boston squad, but gone out as the hometown hero? no way man. flags fly forever, and so do retired jerseys

the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.

by papality on Nov 17, 2011 11:29 AM MST up reply actions  

Ice hockey??

Okay, now list all the players who did what you suggested and didn’t win.

by biondino on Nov 17, 2011 11:32 AM MST up reply actions  

Well....

….I’m guessing Lance Berkman is OK with having given up on spending his career with one team.

by evers44 on Nov 17, 2011 11:40 AM MST up reply actions  

He also didn't

get the choice to block trades.

"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK

by jrockies on Nov 17, 2011 6:26 PM MST up reply actions  

yes he did

he had 10 and 5 rights before he went to the yankees, got traded, and almost made the world series

the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.

by papality on Nov 17, 2011 6:29 PM MST up reply actions  

I stand corrected

I always forget he came into the league in 1999 and not 2001 or 2002

"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK

by jrockies on Nov 17, 2011 7:08 PM MST up reply actions  

Exactly

its probably worth it if it works. But not so much if he’s traded to like (gag) Los Angeles or Anaheim or whoever and they lose in the first round of the playoffs.

by Teekalong on Nov 17, 2011 11:29 AM MST up reply actions  

Larry Walker probably appreciated the shot

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Nov 17, 2011 11:43 AM MST up reply actions  

Larry Walker should have allowed us to trade him to Texas for Ian friggin’ Kinsler.

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Nov 17, 2011 11:44 AM MST up reply actions  

No S imagine that MIF

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Nov 17, 2011 11:46 AM MST up reply actions  

Larry Walker could have signed with the Avalanche

to get his title…

We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!

In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener

by Junction Rox on Nov 17, 2011 11:45 AM MST up reply actions  

If that is something Todd truly wanted

I would be cool with it of course. But I would hate to see him in another uni, just stomach turning, and especially grueling if he didn’t win.

by Teekalong on Nov 17, 2011 11:27 AM MST up reply actions  

Right, clearly....

if it was something he wanted and team he wanted to play for. He’s earned the right to choose: play your entire career with one team or take a shot at a ring.

Either way, his legacy is intact in my book.

by evers44 on Nov 17, 2011 11:31 AM MST up reply actions  

His legacy was long ago intact as far as I'm concerned

But, of course, I still will hope he can add some more to it.

by Teekalong on Nov 17, 2011 11:33 AM MST up reply actions  

I wonder if, somehwere deep in his mind.....

Todd ever wonders what it would have been like if he were drafted by the Yankees or Red Sox. I know he loves being a Rockie, but it seems he’s done much more for this franchise than this franchise has done for him, which is a bit sad.

If he had played his career on an east coast championship-caliber team they’d be naming buildings after him.

by evers44 on Nov 17, 2011 11:37 AM MST up reply actions  

Um, no.

In New York or Boston he wouldn’t have been nearly as important, and might have been shuffled out by this point. I think he’s pretty happy here.

Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 11:43 AM MST up reply actions  

He's be a god in NY

You’re underselling his skill set.

And yeah, he’s happy here. But anyone would be even happier playing meaningful games every September and making runs at rings on a regular basis.

I’m not saying I wish he were there — far from it. I love the man and he is the Rockies in my book. But he deserves to have played in more than 4 world series games in his career. That’s all I’m saying….

by evers44 on Nov 17, 2011 11:48 AM MST up reply actions  

I wonder how much a quiet, chilled out dude

like Helton would like fast-paced NY life and media attention.

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Nov 17, 2011 11:51 AM MST up reply actions  

As for him being a quiet guy....

That’s actually always been a part of the Yankee deal. They have brash guys like Reggie Jackson, David Wells, A-Rod, etc. and then always have them balanced out by mellow dudes like Chris Chambliss, Mariano Rivera and Jeter. Professional guys who don’t stir things up are pretty well woven into that team’s legacy.

by evers44 on Nov 17, 2011 12:05 PM MST up reply actions  

I dunno about Mariano

but Jeter participated in the NY night life a lot. Even guys like Bernie Williams, Tino Martinez, and Paul O’Neill seemed to enjoy the attention -to the extent that they didn’t hate it. Helton is totally different in that, if left to his devices, he is much more remote.

This all being said, who the hell really knows…

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Nov 17, 2011 12:09 PM MST up reply actions  

Yep, it's speculative fiction at this point.

My main point: Todd deserves a hand filled with championship rings. Alas, unless something dramatic happens, he’ll settle for a retired number and maybe a statue.

And I’m sure he’ll be OK with that. Even greater players (such as Ernie Banks) have had to.

by evers44 on Nov 17, 2011 12:16 PM MST up reply actions  

I blame the 8-day layoff in 2007 for the lack of a ring.

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Nov 17, 2011 12:18 PM MST up reply actions  

as much as we all like to do that...

2007 boston was a way better team. 2007 cleveland, on the other hand, we would probably have beaten

the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.

by papality on Nov 17, 2011 12:20 PM MST up reply actions  

Well, I blame that for the lack of a competitive series

That was a good Boston team. Without that layoff, we have a good shot at it, but it still would have been a challenge.

by evers44 on Nov 17, 2011 12:20 PM MST up reply actions  

yea same

I don’t know if we would have won – though these past two years have shown the team better on paper isn’t destined to win. But the series definitely would have been something more than the Rockies laying down and dying…

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Nov 17, 2011 12:23 PM MST up reply actions  

Really, many, many great players

have never even been to a World Series. I always think about Dale Murphy. He left the Braves in 1990, one year before they were good, after suffering with some of the worst teams in baseball.

He plays for the Phillies until 1992. They make it to the WS the following year.

He has only one playoff series in his career, but two MVPs.

Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com

by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 12:22 PM MST up reply actions  

Former Rockie Dale Murphy :)

Another guy who never got to the WS – one of my favorite players as a kid – Andre Dawson.

by evers44 on Nov 17, 2011 12:24 PM MST up reply actions  

In the end,

he’ll be with a lot of great players who made the WS, but didn’t win. I would say that half of the HOF is in this group. It’s not a bad group to be in.

Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 12:30 PM MST up reply actions  

Nolan Ryan has one WS ring

That he got his rookie year….never sniffed another one.

The Martha Stewart of processed foods.

Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.

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by hotdoglady on Nov 17, 2011 2:33 PM MST up reply actions  

as a player

But Ty Wigginton is an All-Star ?!?!

by DAWNMARIE01 on Nov 17, 2011 2:34 PM MST up reply actions  

I'm sure he would have rather

won 6 rings as a player, instead of 6 rings as owner.

The Martha Stewart of processed foods.

Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.

Video tips on posting links and images to Purple Row - Click Here -

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by hotdoglady on Nov 17, 2011 2:39 PM MST up reply actions  

Agree

“I was, till about 30 seconds ago.” ~Todd Helton when asked if he enjoyed letting Troy Tulowtizki and Carlos Gonzalez have all the media attention while not having the media around him

"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK

by jrockies on Nov 17, 2011 6:32 PM MST up reply actions  

I remember reading something

where he was asked about his post-career plans and he said something to the effect of ‘if I don’t come back to coach you’ll probably never really see me’

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Nov 17, 2011 7:12 PM MST up reply actions  

HAHA

They also went out of their way to commit to years of ARod and everything he stands for – And they did it twice.

Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 17, 2011 12:59 PM MST up reply actions  

It's silly to argue, but I strongly disagree.

Out of all of the championships that the Yankees have won in the last 15 years and all of the great players and future HOFers they have had, only two players are going to be revered in the Yankee-God pantheon: Jeter and Rivera. The rest will be remembered fondly, but of less importance. I think Todd would have ended up there as a Yankee.

You forget that Todd is of huge importance because the Rockies pantheon is pretty small. When you start to put him up against Ruth, Gehrig, Mantle and DiMaggio, he looks a little bit smaller.

I’m not knocking Todd, but I don’t think it’s easy to say that he would be worshipped in NY anymore than many of the other great players that they have had.

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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 11:58 AM MST up reply actions  

I mean

I’m not sure how far we’re extending this hypothetical scenario, but it’s definitely possible Todd would have just been traded given Mo Vaughn and Tino Martinez…

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Nov 17, 2011 11:59 AM MST up reply actions  

I'm not comparing him to Jeter and Rivera....

so maybe I’m guilty of hyperbole by saying he’d be a “god”. But I’ll make a better comparison:

Yankee fans still get weepy remembering Don Mattingly. I was in NY and a Yankee fan during his entire career. He was a wonderful player. But Helton is simply a better player. I can say that with some objectivity ’cause I was a fan of both teams and bot guys. Helton is just better all-around.

That’s the level of love I’m talking about. Let’s call it “demigod” :)

by evers44 on Nov 17, 2011 12:02 PM MST up reply actions  

I feel like Helton

basically is Mattingly – just over a longer period of time…

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Nov 17, 2011 12:04 PM MST up reply actions  

They're extremely similar - right down to the back problems

The difference is Todd’s glove. He’s one of the finest first basemen of our time.

by evers44 on Nov 17, 2011 12:05 PM MST up reply actions  

Wasn't Mattingly an excellent defensive 1b?

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Nov 17, 2011 12:10 PM MST up reply actions  

yes he was

the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.

by papality on Nov 17, 2011 12:13 PM MST up reply actions  

He was very good.

Todd is better.

Not a knock on Mattingly’s glove. Todd’s one of the best I’ve ever seen.

by evers44 on Nov 17, 2011 12:14 PM MST up reply actions  

Mattingly was one of my favorites growing up but I’m way too young to remember how he was defensively…

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Nov 17, 2011 12:17 PM MST up reply actions  

Extremely solid

His range suffered as his back problems worsened, but he made all the plays.

When I say Helton is the better of the two, I don’t mean to imply there was a dramatic difference. They’re extremely comparable players.

by evers44 on Nov 17, 2011 12:19 PM MST up reply actions  

They differ in one respect and one respect only: mustache vs. goatee.

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Nov 17, 2011 12:20 PM MST up reply actions  

don't forget that new york and boston value the plate battle and the walk more than any other team

and that’s exactly who todd is. and don’t forget how NYS and fenway play for LHBs who can hit to all fields, or the lineups that he would have been on.

the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.

by papality on Nov 17, 2011 11:58 AM MST up reply actions  

Let me just say....

I didn’t intend this to become a “Todd should be a Yankee” thread. Just pointing out that I feel bad for the guy never having had many shots at the brass ring.

If he can hang on long enough and the Rockies can improve fast enough, I’d much rather see him hoist the WS trophy in purple and black. Believe me…..

by evers44 on Nov 17, 2011 12:07 PM MST up reply actions  

No

I wasn’t upset at the question. Its just the self-esteem issues inherent in small/mid-market fanbase, particularly one that has been as down as the Rox over most of Todd’s career…its easy to imagine he could be somewhat resentful…and that Tulo might be…and that Holliday was…and Arenado will be…etc. Its just something we can’t really dwell on around here because it will likely never change.

by Teekalong on Nov 17, 2011 12:09 PM MST up reply actions  

One other point.....

Just because it is this way, doesn’t mean it has to be this way (vis a vis small/mid market stuff). I’m pretty sure guys on the Brewers feel pretty good about their choice to be there.

A much bigger issue is accepting the idea that we’re a “once in a blue moon” contender.

by evers44 on Nov 17, 2011 12:13 PM MST up reply actions  

Yeah

not suggesting that all midmarket players are miserable. Just that its part of the game, in this and other sports. I’m not trying to start a pity party though, it will be a big part of why its so much sweeter when we do win this thing.

by Teekalong on Nov 17, 2011 12:18 PM MST up reply actions  

I wonder if he thinks

about not taking that 2nd round offer by the Padres in 1992

probably not

"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK

by jrockies on Nov 17, 2011 6:29 PM MST up reply actions  

Well, I think DOD already showed he's willing to rebuild now.

This summer’s deadline trade represented a willingness to wait at least a couple of years for the pitching to reach its peak. I’m willing to consider now that it might have been the best move for the team, but it probably means a step back in 2012. DOD isn’t putting Helton’s chances at postseason glory as a priority.

by RoxnSox09 on Nov 17, 2011 11:30 AM MST up reply actions  

I wanted him to also.

That was part of why I was so upset about that trade.

by RoxnSox09 on Nov 17, 2011 11:34 AM MST up reply actions  

I don't disagree

I’ve come to grips with the trade because it seems there may be something seriously wrong with Ubaldo. It was a smart trade so long as 2010 Uball doesn’t come back roaring for Cleveland, but it will always be defensible. But it definitely was not a “we’re a contender in 2012” move. But he’s got time to make those moves.

by Teekalong on Nov 17, 2011 11:58 AM MST up reply actions  

If rebuilding is

with two MLB ready, almost TOR, starting pitchers and two other decent prospects then yes he’s rebuilding.

"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK

by jrockies on Nov 17, 2011 6:37 PM MST up reply actions  

Thats exactly it.

They saw how much excitement was around the play in games, and decided they needed to force more. I’ve been in favor of a lot of changes, but this one really isn’t all that great. You can’t really force special games like this.

by mkorpal on Nov 17, 2011 11:44 AM MST up reply actions  

I hate change.

I thought 2011 sucked pretty bad. I have nothing to add to that.

by prettyinpurple on Nov 17, 2011 5:40 PM MST up reply actions  

Oh baby what baseball is gonna do to you!

"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana

by Oldfoagie on Nov 17, 2011 5:42 PM MST up reply actions  

The best part of the Rockpile today?

Learning that there’s a team named the New Hampshire Fisher Cats.

by evers44 on Nov 17, 2011 11:03 AM MST reply actions  

Taylor Bucholz is now a free agent

Still uncertainly whether he can pitch because of his anxiety/depression issues (http://twitter.com/#!/SurfingTheMets/status/136215865149497344).

Godspeed Taylor — I’ve been there brother. Tommy John surgery is a breeze to deal with in comparison. Get well — and answer the phone if Dan O’Dowd calls.

by evers44 on Nov 17, 2011 11:12 AM MST reply actions  

Forgotten how much I hate November

both as a month in general, and for baseball.

by mkorpal on Nov 17, 2011 11:36 AM MST reply actions  

I hate January the most

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by SDcat09 on Nov 17, 2011 12:20 PM MST up reply actions  

I at least like the idea of a new year

and new beginnings.November just stinks of a stale, old year, bad weather, 1000s of rumors but nothing happening in baseball, and one day where you have dinner with the family.

by mkorpal on Nov 17, 2011 12:22 PM MST up reply actions  

l agree l hate November


In all things, it is better to hope than despair.

by butterfly on Nov 17, 2011 12:24 PM MST up reply actions  

It probably helps that I live in San Diego where November weather is great.

I get some rain for a welcome change, foggy mornings, clear afternoons. Heck one year it was 90(that’s a little to unseasonal for me). Plus people start putting Christmas lights on the palm trees, which never ceases to crack me up.

My birthday was always ruined by snow or rain or something else when I was growing up in Aurora., so I can understand that part of it.

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by SDcat09 on Nov 17, 2011 12:39 PM MST up reply actions  

as someone who was born in January,

you’re all dead.

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Nov 17, 2011 1:17 PM MST up reply actions  

lol, well played

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
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by Resolution on Nov 17, 2011 1:24 PM MST up reply actions  

Me too!

Let’s get ’em

@CentralCaliRox

by CentralCaliRox on Nov 17, 2011 1:22 PM MST up reply actions  

The nice thing about February though......

There’s less of it

Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 17, 2011 1:43 PM MST up reply actions  

WORD!!! flec +1 x eleventy billion infinity

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by SDcat09 on Nov 17, 2011 1:53 PM MST up reply actions  

-1 , flagged :p

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by SDcat09 on Nov 17, 2011 1:54 PM MST up reply actions  

/facepsalm?

Is this a new type of prayer?

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by SDcat09 on Nov 18, 2011 10:52 AM MST up reply actions  

It was a kind of entertaining movie,

But I can’t wait until they release Arbor day in 2017

Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.

by Thnikkaman on Nov 17, 2011 1:55 PM MST up reply actions  

Also, if by awesome you mean horrible.

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by SDcat09 on Nov 17, 2011 1:55 PM MST up reply actions  

Everything?

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by SDcat09 on Nov 17, 2011 2:02 PM MST up reply actions  

You don't have to celebrate it.

I’ve been married for eight years. I don’t celebrate it anymore.

But I’m not going to begrudge other people celebrating it.

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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 2:07 PM MST up reply actions  

ah, that's sad.:(


In all things, it is better to hope than despair.

by butterfly on Nov 17, 2011 2:10 PM MST up reply actions  

:) now you're talklng ...


In all things, it is better to hope than despair.

by butterfly on Nov 17, 2011 2:17 PM MST up reply actions  

Well thanks for clarifying that I don't have to celebrate it.

Whew…

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by SDcat09 on Nov 17, 2011 2:15 PM MST up reply actions  

What's right about it?

But Ty Wigginton is an All-Star ?!?!

by DAWNMARIE01 on Nov 17, 2011 2:02 PM MST up reply actions  

Hmm, this is a compelling argument

Dark chocolate is always appreciated.

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by SDcat09 on Nov 17, 2011 2:28 PM MST up reply actions  

Eh, she's OK

I tend to prefer Tiffanie, but maybe that’s just me…

We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!

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by Junction Rox on Nov 17, 2011 2:30 PM MST up reply actions  

Heh icwydt

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by SDcat09 on Nov 17, 2011 2:35 PM MST up reply actions  

look how wrong you are

But Ty Wigginton is an All-Star ?!?!

by DAWNMARIE01 on Nov 17, 2011 2:01 PM MST up reply actions  

iawtc

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by SDcat09 on Nov 17, 2011 2:02 PM MST up reply actions  

+1000000000000

We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!

In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener

by Junction Rox on Nov 17, 2011 2:31 PM MST up reply actions  

I have a counter argument to this for you

But it’s not appropriate…..

Then again, I’ve already made the point before. (So don’t click cat unless you have some brain bleach handy)

Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 17, 2011 3:13 PM MST up reply actions  

I don't get it lol

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by SDcat09 on Nov 17, 2011 3:15 PM MST up reply actions  

If you clicked

You would get it.

And according to that, I was conceived in January.

Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.

by Thnikkaman on Nov 17, 2011 3:27 PM MST up reply actions  

Halloween for me.

But Ty Wigginton is an All-Star ?!?!

by DAWNMARIE01 on Nov 17, 2011 3:30 PM MST up reply actions  

Thanksgiving for me.

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by hotdoglady on Nov 17, 2011 3:31 PM MST up reply actions  

Oh Lord, I just figured out

I was born 4 days short of 9 months after my mom’s birthday.

/filed under things I didn’t want to know…

We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!

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by Junction Rox on Nov 17, 2011 3:34 PM MST up reply actions  

Labor day, I guess?

Only if I was a little late.

Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...

by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 17, 2011 3:35 PM MST up reply actions  

Ohhhh now I get it

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by SDcat09 on Nov 17, 2011 3:37 PM MST up reply actions  

I did click...I still didn't get it...

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by SDcat09 on Nov 17, 2011 3:36 PM MST up reply actions  

Figures

I gave that response in the original thread.

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by Russ Oates on Nov 17, 2011 3:53 PM MST up reply actions  

V-Day here, birthday was yesterday.

Last year, Frank Wren got Dan Uggla for my birthday…this year, Jose Yepez. He’s totally off my Christmas card list.

-C

It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?

by cthabeerman on Nov 17, 2011 4:26 PM MST up reply actions  

yup thats me too the 15th

valentines day, boy isn’t that nice
—dont married people shag outside of holidays…gulp,

/yells to other room
“honey…is Thanksgiving coming up already?”

The Big Purple Machine will make a believer outta you!

by El Paso Jeff on Nov 17, 2011 4:29 PM MST up reply actions  

Do you really want to be changing diapers

during the Rockies stretch run?

We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!

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by Junction Rox on Nov 17, 2011 4:36 PM MST up reply actions  

April is the

cruelest month.

The Martha Stewart of processed foods.

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by hotdoglady on Nov 17, 2011 2:35 PM MST up reply actions   1 recs

I was waiting for this.

This is why Maria is awesome.

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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 2:37 PM MST up reply actions   1 recs

If i'm only gonna make a couple of comments a week

they gotta be good.

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by hotdoglady on Nov 17, 2011 2:39 PM MST up reply actions  

new job keeping you busy then?

the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.

by papality on Nov 17, 2011 4:47 PM MST up reply actions  

Wrong

February is.

Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.

by Thnikkaman on Nov 17, 2011 2:38 PM MST up reply actions  

For Tulo.

But Ty Wigginton is an All-Star ?!?!

by DAWNMARIE01 on Nov 17, 2011 2:39 PM MST up reply actions  

Well as a Sox fan I'd like to give you guys my two cents here

seeing as most of today was demoted to talking about trading for Youk. First of all its not going to happen. Youk is one of the only bright spots right now in Boston for the fans. With all the crap they have gone threw they are not about to go and trade their fan favorite for an injury prone Street and Ty freakin Wiggington. Its just not going to happen. Not only does that not fit Youk’s trade value anyways but Boston Values him even higher than what his trade value really is for moral reasons. I meantioned Carl Crawford yesterday because Boston would be willing to dump his salary to another team who wanted to chance him… hell they may even pay out some of that salary but Crawford is not a fan favorite of the team. It’s a different scenario. Just wanted to get my opinion out there. If Colorado was serious about landing Youk Boston would be laughing at that offer untill Arenado or Rosario were thrown into the equation.

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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 12:09 PM MST reply actions  

That makes sense.

And it also makes sense that O’D would never even dangle those two young guys for Youk. For god sakes, he’d better not.

by evers44 on Nov 17, 2011 12:10 PM MST up reply actions  

i would hope he wouldn't do that

Youk is a good player, an above average third baseman but if I were a Rockie fan which I love the Rox, I just like the Sox more, I wouldn’t be worried about 3rd base. Arenado will be better than Youk in 2 or 3 years.

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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 12:12 PM MST up reply actions  

I don't know about the first part of all this

though I suspect you are right…but I totally agree on the return. Its amusing to think we could get a guy of his caliber for guys we don’t want.

by Teekalong on Nov 17, 2011 12:11 PM MST up reply actions  

Youk to Boston

is essentially Tulo to Colorado. He gets his own chants, the crowd is the loudest everytime he comes up to bat or makes a play. Trust me, he means a lot to that team. The fans of Boston would riot if he was traded for Street and Wiggington.

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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 12:14 PM MST up reply actions  

That's a little bit hyperbolic.

Tulo and Youk are in two completely different situations. This goes with the point that Street and Bettis are not going to do it though. I think that they might pull the trigger on Street, Bettis, and another high-level prospect.

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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 12:16 PM MST up reply actions  

Agree

I can’t imagine Youk is anywhere close to as important to Bos as Tulo is to Colo, not for the least reason that he’s not one of their best 2-3 players. that said, i dig that he’s very, very good and a fan favorite. We won’t get him for our trash. We will get him for very desireable pieces, if at all.

by Teekalong on Nov 17, 2011 12:20 PM MST up reply actions  

they aren't that different

Tulo is a far better player but do you know what the fans of Colorado would do if he was traded? Even if the return was say Jose Reyes and Bryce Harper or something. Maybe not as many as you number crunching die hards but all those fans that chant tulo in the seats of Coors would be upset. It wouldn’t happen. I’m telling you Boston won;t have Youk on the market to start and if a team calls they are going to demand a lot more than his worth. Just saying.

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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 12:21 PM MST up reply actions  

You might argue that it is Helton to Boston in 06

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by TomCat009 on Nov 17, 2011 12:22 PM MST up reply actions  

maybe

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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 12:26 PM MST up reply actions  

Pedrioa or Ellesbury is more like that

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Nov 17, 2011 12:22 PM MST up reply actions  

both better players than Youk

but Youk is the fan favorite.. Peety is close behind.

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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 12:22 PM MST up reply actions  

I would bet a poll of 1000 Sawx fans about who would you rather lose of those 3

my guess is youk wins

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Nov 17, 2011 12:23 PM MST up reply actions  

i bet every sox fan would say

none of them are for sale.

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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 12:25 PM MST up reply actions  

I think NN71 makes a good point though....

BoSox fans have to be feeling a bit traumatized by the way the season ended, parting with Epstein and Francona, that Globe article…. This is not the time to deal a long time fan favorite. It’s not just a baseball decision, at some point you have to give fans something to hang onto.

Honestly, this seems to be a franchise teetering on the brink a bit (although having $$$ will cushion any falls) and I don’t see them moving guys who fans love.

by evers44 on Nov 17, 2011 12:27 PM MST up reply actions  

exactly

think pathos people… it’s more than you think.

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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 12:31 PM MST up reply actions  

Actually, I think it's the opposite.

If you are going to do in, now is the time.

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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 12:32 PM MST up reply actions  

don't see it happening

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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 12:36 PM MST up reply actions  

did you see them moving Theo and Tito out of town?

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Nov 17, 2011 12:38 PM MST up reply actions  

Tito yes

Theo no… he left on his own.

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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 12:39 PM MST up reply actions  

I don't either,

but I don’t think it’s because of the team situation.

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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 12:38 PM MST up reply actions  

its for the fans

i mean he could be traded… but it would take something the Rox wouldn’t be willing to get

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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 12:39 PM MST up reply actions  

Yeah

I think Youk is more like Helton. Far from the best player on the team, but someone who we would cry over if he was traded.

by mkorpal on Nov 17, 2011 12:24 PM MST up reply actions  

yes that is what ive been saying

he’s not going to get traded.

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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 12:26 PM MST up reply actions  

Youkilis is not to the Red Sox as Tulo is to the Rockies

Youk is a great player who means quite a bit to that fan base, but Tulo means more to Colorado.

Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 17, 2011 1:13 PM MST up reply actions  

I agree that it would take more

than two salary dumps. But I disagree that he is your only bright spot. I’m sure you are hurting after the collapse and the manager stuff, but you still have one hell of a team and will again be favorites to claim a playoff spot next year. I would give up anything to have half your lineup.

by mkorpal on Nov 17, 2011 12:17 PM MST up reply actions  

not the only

but one of the only. Gonzalez was good, Ellsbury was a bright spot as was Peety but the rest of the team? No. The rotation is a mess, they have hundreds of millions locked up in Lackey and Crawford who have been major busts and then losing an iconic GM and coach who ended an 86 year drought as well as the media harping about pitchers drinking beer during ghames? Yea Boston isn’t about to go trade a fan favorite. Its not gonna happen.

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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 12:24 PM MST up reply actions  

idk what you would critique

their rotation?

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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 12:32 PM MST up reply actions  

2 pitchers does not a rotation make

the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.

by papality on Nov 17, 2011 12:33 PM MST up reply actions  

i know

i meant what would mkorpal want to critique about my post as if he thought Boston’s rotation was okay or something

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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 12:37 PM MST up reply actions  

go for it

i don’t mind. I won’t get nasty.

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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 12:38 PM MST up reply actions  

Fair enough

You came in to discuss Youk and our ridiculous idea of trading Street and Wiggington for him, which is fine. However, I didn’t like the complaining about the Red Sox problems. To be honest, with two players who deserve MVP’s and a lineup that can support them easily, and the means to fix a rotation that has holes, but is still better than ours, I would kill to have your team. It just kind of irks me. Like the rich kid with all the toys in the world complaining to the poor kid that he has nothing to play with.

by mkorpal on Nov 17, 2011 12:43 PM MST up reply actions  

completely understandable

It irks me that Boston spends all that money too. I flly believe in a salary cap at 120 mm for every team and let every team compete. My reason fr liking the Sox goes back to 2002 and its a long story. Anyways the holes in their team are far more gaping than people think. Boston now have a GM who’s new to the game therefor making deals, trades, signing free agents will be harder. The longer your a GM, the greater a rep you build the easier it is to make deals. Another is the Sox still have no coach and the next coach they get won’t be near as good as Titto. Their rotation is a disaster and they have holes just like every other team. Yes Henry likes to spend money, yes Boston creates more revenue and makes more money due to a larger fan base who pay money and attend games. Is that my fault? No i don’t think so however you can have all the money in the world and still put a crappy product on the field. I’m sure it sounds bad that Sox fans can complain but really our team is in a lot of trouble. Also I wish i was a rich kid with all the toys… I’m a broke college kid living on ramon and watching all these millionaires throw money around is sick but i still love the game. The NBA… now they have me really questioning if i will continue following and supporting it.

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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 12:50 PM MST up reply actions  

While the manager and coaching

are a bummer, at least your not stuck with a coach who you hate. And your most definitely not the only team with those issues.

As for your rotation, it’s certainly not as bad as you make it out to be. Having a top three of Beckett, Lester and Buchholz is quite good. Hell, look at our rotation as it stands next year. We got Chacin, who decided to walk everyone on the planet during the 2nd half last year, a pitcher coming off TJ surgery, another with an unprecedented injury, Hammel, and two rookies. I would certainly take your rotation over ours.

But I think we are digressing.

by mkorpal on Nov 17, 2011 1:02 PM MST up reply actions  

Yea its okay

Beckett is getting old tho and gets injured a lot. Bucholtz is a lot liek Chacin. Electric stuff but so inconsistent. Lester is our ace and is a very good pitcher… Pomeranz could def put up Lester esk numbers this season if he really is a top 10 prospect in the Majors which is what ive read. we shall see

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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 1:16 PM MST up reply actions  

Yeah, we'll see

By the way, anyway Scutaro would be available via trade?

by mkorpal on Nov 17, 2011 1:18 PM MST up reply actions  

yea

I honestly think we are going to try and make a run for Hanley once Reyes gets signed by the Fish. I know a lot of our FO guys love him and have been trying to get him for the last couple of years. If that happened yea I think Scutaro could be had pretty easily

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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 1:26 PM MST up reply actions  

Interesting

A lot of if’s though. But, how close would a Street for Scutaro trade be? I think he could be a cheaper (in terms of trade value) alternative for 2nd than Prado would be.

by mkorpal on Nov 17, 2011 1:34 PM MST up reply actions  

i don't think so

not unless they had a backup plan for SS in place first. But you never know.

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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 1:35 PM MST up reply actions  

I don't think anybody was serious about

Street and Wiggy, I think the wiggy part was 100% joke. Obviously it would take prospects, but both sides know that the Sox aren’t getting any of the Rox Top 4 prospects for Youk

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 12:26 PM MST up reply actions  

I wrote that.

110% joke.

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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 12:27 PM MST up reply actions  

exactly

which is why there won’t be a deal lol just want to make that clear after glancing at some quotes it looked like people were thinking getting youk was a real possibility. its not.

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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 12:27 PM MST up reply actions  

Didn't figure it was

who is going to play RF for the Sox?

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by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 12:29 PM MST up reply actions  

no idea

Darnell McDonald probably maybe Reddick… they both suck. They may address it via trade but idk. they have holes on RF and at SS as well as C… we’re not sold on Salty. Our only starter is Lester, Beckett had a good year but i don;t see him staying healthy… we all know what happened with Lackey. Big Papi is prob gone. We don’t have a closer. The teams a mess.

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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 12:35 PM MST up reply actions  

i was gonna get into trading pieces

but decided not too cuz it aint gonna happen and I really dont think they would trade Crawford would they? After 1 year?

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by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 12:39 PM MST up reply actions  

maybe yea

they weren’t happy with him at all this year.

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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 12:41 PM MST up reply actions  

I'll take Crawford if we only have to pay him $15 million a year

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 12:27 PM MST up reply actions  

now that

that would not require prospects and I wouldn’t be surprised if Boston would be willing to not only take on Wiggington but maybe pay that ectra 5 mil a year for the Rox to take him on. That is a much more likely scenario than Youk.

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@Garrett_Olsen

by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 12:29 PM MST up reply actions  

yay, another left-handed outfielder who can't hit lefties

the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.

by papality on Nov 17, 2011 12:30 PM MST up reply actions  

I swear if we brought up acuiring Pujols or Cliff Lee

that they would get ripped apart on here

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 12:31 PM MST up reply actions  

don't threaten me with a good time

the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.

by papality on Nov 17, 2011 12:32 PM MST up reply actions  

He's a career .262 hitter against LHP

L’d love to see him on this team. Can you imagine the OF of him, Fowler and Cargo? And to have a legit base stealer like that?

by evers44 on Nov 17, 2011 12:35 PM MST up reply actions  

it would be nasty

the defense as well.

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@Garrett_Olsen

by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 12:36 PM MST up reply actions  

It would be fun to watch fangraphs explain that since his UZR was now negative 20

at coors he must not be any good at defense

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Nov 17, 2011 12:41 PM MST up reply actions  

what is UZR?

MOZGOD Enthusiast Member 71
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@Garrett_Olsen

by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 12:52 PM MST up reply actions  

Ultimate Zone Rating

it’s an advanced measure of defensive value

the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.

by papality on Nov 17, 2011 12:53 PM MST up reply actions  

and Crawfords was bad?

MOZGOD Enthusiast Member 71
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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 12:54 PM MST up reply actions  

in 2011, yes

after a career putting up very good numbers with tampa

the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.

by papality on Nov 17, 2011 12:55 PM MST up reply actions  

hmm

with the games i was able to watch he didn’t look bad but the Monster could have had its way with him. Give him Coors left field and I think that number changes.

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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 12:57 PM MST up reply actions  

Man

I wish he wasn’t get $20M/year for the next 8,000 years – how much of that do you think they’ll eat to ship him out of Boston?

Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...

by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 17, 2011 1:05 PM MST up reply actions  

uhm

they would need something in return to eat enough. Honestly I could see them seriously considering a deal of Street, Wiggington, Spilly or Smith and Wilin Rosario and I could see them giving Crawford as well as eating 5-7 mil of his contract per year. I could see them consider it. I know they like Spilly a lot but more as a 4th OF. They honestly might give it one more year or at least another 50 games to consider moving him.. I wouldn;t be surprised to see them move him tho I know a lot of fans were upset with his performance and i believer so was the management.

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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 1:19 PM MST up reply actions  

I’ll take Crawford if we only have to pay him $15 million a year
now that

that would not require prospects and I wouldn’t be surprised if Boston would be willing to not only take on Wiggington but maybe pay that ectra 5 mil a year for the Rox to take him on. That is a much more likely scenario than Youk.

Now waitaminnit, if it wouldn’t take prospects to get Crawford with them throwing in $5million a year, why would we be giving them Rosario again?

Not that the deal you spelled out sounds wrong to me, it just seems to go against what you said earlier.

We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!

In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener

by Junction Rox on Nov 17, 2011 2:35 PM MST up reply actions  

It doesn't make any sense regardless.

We’re not getting Crawford. Let’s not even talk about it.

@CentralCaliRox

by CentralCaliRox on Nov 17, 2011 5:44 PM MST up reply actions  

i switched my mind

after realzing how sorry the RF is

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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 8:50 PM MST up reply actions  

Is that the stat.....

where guys watch video of games and determine, based on how hard the ball was hit and the speed of the OF’er whether they should have gotten to it? One of those defensive stats is based that way, and I find it really sketchy. So much human subjectivity at play in creating a supposedly objective number.

by evers44 on Nov 17, 2011 12:57 PM MST up reply actions  

a .262 average that ends up being a .301 wOBA/ 86 wRC+

SWEET

the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.

by papality on Nov 17, 2011 12:41 PM MST up reply actions  

At a time when we're looking at Grady Sizemore as our LF salvation....

I’ll take Carl Crawford, flaws and all. And be thrilled about it.

by evers44 on Nov 17, 2011 12:46 PM MST up reply actions  

one of those acquisitions is plausible

one is not

the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.

by papality on Nov 17, 2011 12:47 PM MST up reply actions  

hahah

this is true

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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 12:52 PM MST up reply actions  

Since when did plausability become a limitation on...

…idle hot stove chatter? We’re just playing with monopoly money here.

by evers44 on Nov 17, 2011 12:53 PM MST up reply actions  

yeah, i was just being argumentative

i’d love crawford here, especially if boston is shelling out cash for him

the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.

by papality on Nov 17, 2011 12:54 PM MST up reply actions  

Its like talking about winning the lottery

awesome to think about, but such a bummer when you know it wont happen

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 1:09 PM MST up reply actions  

honestly

i just don’t think he is a spotlight player. I think he flourished in Tampa because everyone knew he was good, he just didn’t have that added pressure. If he played in colorado with Cargo Tulo and Helton hitting behind him, you’d see his Tampa numbers again… trust me. He’s my favorite player and I followed him in Tampa before he came to my Sox.

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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 12:53 PM MST up reply actions  

The PROBLEM is

Our 2 Hole hitter has to be our 2nd Baseman

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 1:00 PM MST up reply actions  

that does suck

unless Sizemore is added.

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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 1:01 PM MST up reply actions  

Sizemore will play 2nd?

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 1:04 PM MST up reply actions  

no if Sizemore is signed

he can hit in the 2 hole.

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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 1:20 PM MST up reply actions  

You tell that to Jim Tracy

I dare you, he would kill you

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 1:21 PM MST up reply actions  

hahaha

him and his fat chaw… I thought he’s had Smith hit 2nd before?

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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 1:27 PM MST up reply actions  

you're still fairly new here

and missing this joke almost entirely. Stick around next year and see how it plays out.

"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK

by jrockies on Nov 17, 2011 6:52 PM MST up reply actions  

I prefer the original way of setting a lineup

The way the Yankees did in the 20s when they introduced uniform numbers. Leadoff guy wears #1, second guy wears #2…..

Slap an 8 on Iannetta’s back and let’s go.

by evers44 on Nov 17, 2011 1:03 PM MST up reply actions  

Being a fan favorite in Boston is not a good guage as to whether or not a player will be traded

In the last 20 years, no one player has been as popular in Boston as Nomar Garciaparra was in the late 90’s/early 2000’s and he was traded in a deadline deal that involved Orlando Cabrera and Doug Mientkiewicz..

Also, I don’t think Youk is really that much more popular than Pedroia. He’s one of the favorites, but he’s not in a class of his own. If the Red Sox get an offer they like, they will move an aging corner infielder who is getting injured more often and is owed over $20 million on the last two years of his contract.

Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 17, 2011 1:10 PM MST up reply actions  

fair enough

but itll take more than Street and WIggington.

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by NastyNessy71 on Nov 17, 2011 1:21 PM MST up reply actions  

Oh no doubt

Wigginton is a disaster! It’s probably more Street and a pretty high prospect.

Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 17, 2011 1:30 PM MST up reply actions  

Wiggington would be a negative trade value

Pittsburgh or Houston might take him on but only if we eat half of his salary

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Nov 17, 2011 2:02 PM MST up reply actions  

Crawford just finished the first year of his contract

and everybody in Boston hates him.

Relax. Crawford definitely isn’t going anywhere.

@CentralCaliRox

by CentralCaliRox on Nov 17, 2011 1:23 PM MST up reply actions  

So, reserves deadline is days away.

Rockies will be filling their 40 man roster. We have three spots. One will be CHristian Friedrich, another will be Edwar Cabrera. Who do you guys want to see occupy slot #3?

RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder

by Greg Stanwood on Nov 17, 2011 12:32 PM MST reply actions  

No.

I am going to assume that no one wants Alfonzo in that spot, though.

RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder

by Greg Stanwood on Nov 17, 2011 12:34 PM MST up reply actions  

Well, he was my guy.

All of these people keep saying we need more guys with edge. Who is edgier than that?

Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 12:36 PM MST up reply actions  

Derek Jeter.

that guy’s got an Edge.

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Nov 17, 2011 12:37 PM MST up reply actions  

Scott Speizio

and uhh Michael Barrett?? Jim Leyritz??

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Nov 17, 2011 12:46 PM MST up reply actions  

OT: Because this thread needs some cute.

And because as the proud aunt it is my duty.

My new nephew, Isaac Geoffrey:

Okay, no more off-topic from me. On topic comment coming anon.

by holly96 on Nov 17, 2011 1:06 PM MST reply actions  

Awwwww....

Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Nov 17, 2011 1:29 PM MST up reply actions  

that moose shirt...

so freakin cute.

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by hotdoglady on Nov 17, 2011 2:37 PM MST up reply actions  

My sister loves mooses.

She used to have a shirt she bought in Banff that had a big moose head, and there was flap sorta thing that was the moose’s mouth, so if you run or bounce around, it looks like the moose is opening and closing his mouth. It was awesome.

by holly96 on Nov 17, 2011 2:45 PM MST up reply actions  

Awww.

Big sis little sis, right?

by holly96 on Nov 17, 2011 2:48 PM MST up reply actions  

Yup :)

Super excited to get to see them at thanksgiving next week.

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by hotdoglady on Nov 17, 2011 2:50 PM MST up reply actions  

Yay!

are you flying in to Colorado?

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by hotdoglady on Nov 17, 2011 2:57 PM MST up reply actions  

No, we're all going to my sister's house in Houston this year.

(She’s the one with the new baby, though going to her house was the plan before she was pregnant.)

by holly96 on Nov 17, 2011 3:01 PM MST up reply actions  

awww

Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Nov 17, 2011 2:49 PM MST up reply actions  

For what it's worth, from Joel Sherman:
#Mets and #Rockies briefly talked about building something around Huston Street and Pelfrey but Mets do not seem overly enamored with Street

by holly96 on Nov 17, 2011 1:06 PM MST reply actions  

Thats why the Mets suck

cuz they don’t believe us when the Rockies say its a good deal. Maybe Wiggy will push them over the top

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 1:07 PM MST up reply actions  

Well

I guess we could do worse, but we certainly could do a whole lot better than that.

by mkorpal on Nov 17, 2011 1:09 PM MST up reply actions  

i'd love mike "4.71 career SIERA" pelfrey

god, can we never set our sights high?

the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.

by papality on Nov 17, 2011 1:09 PM MST up reply actions  

Doubt we're going to get much that's high for Street.

They’re probably talking to all kinds of teams, seeing what might be available for him.

by holly96 on Nov 17, 2011 1:10 PM MST up reply actions  

i know we won't get much for street, if we move him at all

but it’s just so annoying that every rumor about us is for some marginal piece. yeah yeah, hampton and neagle, but we’re never going to win a championship pursuing junk.

the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.

by papality on Nov 17, 2011 1:13 PM MST up reply actions  

Prado and Oswalt are marginal pieces?

Yeah, we might not get either, but I don’t think they’re only pursuing junk.

by holly96 on Nov 17, 2011 1:14 PM MST up reply actions  

There is no junk to pursue

because we already have Ty Wiggington on our team and we kinda used Jose Lopez already and the rest of the junk is under contract in the Giants and Padres position players

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 1:16 PM MST up reply actions  

you don't start publicly looking into mike pelfrey

unless you’re looking for junk

the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.

by papality on Nov 17, 2011 1:18 PM MST up reply actions  

But you said every rumor was that.

And we have no idea how close this actually was to happening, and only Sherman’s comment on why it didn’t.

by holly96 on Nov 17, 2011 1:20 PM MST up reply actions  

i thought the hyperbole was obvious

i guess not

the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.

by papality on Nov 17, 2011 1:20 PM MST up reply actions  

yes y.

If we can get Pelfrey with Street + prospect + lower level prospect, I’d do it.

@CentralCaliRox

by CentralCaliRox on Nov 17, 2011 1:27 PM MST up reply actions  

bring back Kirk Niewenhuis

former teammate of mine

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 1:32 PM MST up reply actions  

I wouldn't touch Pelfrey

with mile long pole. Basically, Cook V2.

by mkorpal on Nov 17, 2011 1:33 PM MST up reply actions  

that's extremely expensive for a guy with a 4.71 career SIERA

and 2 seasons with a FIP below 4

the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.

by papality on Nov 17, 2011 1:34 PM MST up reply actions  

yeah, that's a good point.

Street-Pelfrey straight up.

@CentralCaliRox

by CentralCaliRox on Nov 17, 2011 1:41 PM MST up reply actions  

Pelfrey-Wigginton straight up?

Lol. Jk.

We need a guy that’s going to throw ~200 innings next year. With the exception of Jhoulys, we don’t have a single horse in the rotation as it stands right now.

@CentralCaliRox

by CentralCaliRox on Nov 17, 2011 1:44 PM MST up reply actions  

True

But I want one, you know, who can give us 200 quality innings. Not one who gives us 200 bad innings.

Street may be over payed, but at least he is a quality closer.

by mkorpal on Nov 17, 2011 1:46 PM MST up reply actions  

I like Edwin Jackson.

I see Pelfrey as the Jackson-lite in this market.

I do agree with you though. Pelfrey isn’t first on my pitching list or even top 5, but the guy could be useful in this rotation.

@CentralCaliRox

by CentralCaliRox on Nov 17, 2011 1:48 PM MST up reply actions  

Jhoulys is the same age as the guy that just won the NL Cy Young Award

Just sayin’…

Jason Giambi for player-manager in 2012!
How the world will end in 2012: George of the Roses builds a Machine that Pommels everyone with La Violencia during Whiteouts.

by free7694 on Nov 17, 2011 2:51 PM MST up reply actions  

Kershaw is Kershaw.

Chacin isn’t Kershaw.

@CentralCaliRox

by CentralCaliRox on Nov 17, 2011 5:45 PM MST up reply actions  

pelfrey is projected to make $5.8 mil in arb, too

barely any salary relief

the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.

by papality on Nov 17, 2011 1:44 PM MST up reply actions  

Kershaw wins CY

the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.

by papality on Nov 17, 2011 1:08 PM MST reply actions  

Shouldn't be possible

because you are suppose to keep kids in the minors until they have gone through all the levels of the minors and until they reach a certain age because we can’t rush them

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 1:10 PM MST up reply actions  

LOLZ

Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Nov 17, 2011 1:48 PM MST up reply actions  

Also, this from Charlie Blackmon made me laugh:
Someone ask @Jstylep why he can’t answer my phone call but he can answer a tweet in five minutes, because I’m not speaking to him right now.

Charlie Blackmon/Jordan Pacheco feud!

by holly96 on Nov 17, 2011 1:11 PM MST reply actions  

Adam Foster's crush on Arenado has reached involuntary gushing stage

http://projectprospect.com/article/2011/11/17/nolan-arenado-scouting-report?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
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by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 17, 2011 1:56 PM MST via mobile reply actions  

Arenado looks sooooo young.

Hard to believe he’s just TWENTY years old.

@CentralCaliRox

by CentralCaliRox on Nov 17, 2011 1:58 PM MST up reply actions  

Aren't you 20 years old?

I’m confused.

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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 2:00 PM MST up reply actions  

I'm 19.

What I meant was, Arenado seems older than what he really is. Because of all the hype and stuff.

@CentralCaliRox

by CentralCaliRox on Nov 17, 2011 2:02 PM MST up reply actions  

Arenado is almost certainly going to be the very first Rockies player

who will be younger than me when I see him play.

It’s gonna be a weird feeling/

by Shoemaker on Nov 17, 2011 2:04 PM MST up reply actions  

I think Chacin was mine

"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 17, 2011 2:45 PM MST via mobile up reply actions  

Pom was mine I believe

Jason Giambi for player-manager in 2012!
How the world will end in 2012: George of the Roses builds a Machine that Pommels everyone with La Violencia during Whiteouts.

by free7694 on Nov 17, 2011 2:52 PM MST up reply actions  

Same

Having Pomeranz pitch to Rosario was weird because the entire starting battery is younger than me

"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK

by jrockies on Nov 17, 2011 6:58 PM MST up reply actions  

Yeah.

You are young.

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by hotdoglady on Nov 17, 2011 2:45 PM MST up reply actions  

Heartache to heartache he stands.

No promises. No Demands.

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by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 2:47 PM MST up reply actions  

Baseball = Love

so yes.

The Martha Stewart of processed foods.

Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.

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by hotdoglady on Nov 17, 2011 3:00 PM MST up reply actions  

By modus ponens?

Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.

by Thnikkaman on Nov 17, 2011 3:27 PM MST up reply actions  

1993 they were all younger...

    That ain’t changed a bit !

"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana

by Oldfoagie on Nov 17, 2011 5:46 PM MST up reply actions  

I didn't follow the Rockies' farm very closely in the 2000's.

Is the hype surrounding Arenado reaching similar levels to how people talked about Tulo when he was moving through the minors, or is it not there yet?

by Shoemaker on Nov 17, 2011 2:00 PM MST up reply actions  

How hyped was Tulo coming through the minors?

I honestly don’t remember him being this hyped.

@CentralCaliRox

by CentralCaliRox on Nov 17, 2011 2:03 PM MST up reply actions  

I remember the hype right before his rookie season

but nothing before that

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 2:13 PM MST up reply actions  

Tulo was different because he was a first round pick

There was always some hype around them and he was always rated high on our propect list. I followed him through sites other than Purple Row though so it’s hard to compare.

Rox Girl, Russ, Franchise26, and Tom (RFTN) could probably answer this question best since they were around back then and could compare both.

Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 17, 2011 3:20 PM MST up reply actions  

Well

Rox Girl couldn’t even spell his name right, so there is that

"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK

by jrockies on Nov 17, 2011 6:58 PM MST up reply actions  

I doubt BPro and BA are as high on him, but we will see their rankings soon enough

"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 17, 2011 2:04 PM MST via mobile up reply actions  

Wow.

That’s some high marks…

@CentralCaliRox

by CentralCaliRox on Nov 17, 2011 2:01 PM MST up reply actions  

giggity

Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Nov 17, 2011 2:02 PM MST up reply actions  

Speaking of...

its been a few weeks, but Law is back. And softening…somewhat:

Mike (Denver)
I’m reading better reports on Arenado’s defense. Is this a fluke, incorrect or has he actually improved his defense?

Klaw (1:34 PM)
I think he does the best he can given his body. He has slow feet – there’s a ceiling on how good an infielder you can be if your legs are just heavy or slow. Matt Davidson is cut from similar cloth. Both can stay at 3b, most likely, but I don’t think either will ever save you 5 runs a year on defense.

by Teekalong on Nov 17, 2011 2:47 PM MST up reply actions  

Mark Reynolds

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 2:02 PM MST reply actions  

haha he is making 7.5 million in ’12,

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 2:03 PM MST up reply actions  

he also can't field

a baseball

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 2:05 PM MST up reply actions  

Say what?

Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Nov 17, 2011 2:16 PM MST up reply actions  

Would Jack Wilson sign a minor league deal with us?

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 2:07 PM MST reply actions  

nevermind

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 2:08 PM MST up reply actions  

Can we get Alex Gordon

and make him play 3rd again?

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 2:10 PM MST reply actions  

that ship has sailed

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Nov 17, 2011 3:00 PM MST up reply actions  

What about Wilson Betemit?

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Nov 17, 2011 2:10 PM MST reply actions  

He’s horrible at baseball.

Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.

by frightened inmate #2 on Nov 17, 2011 2:33 PM MST up reply actions  

We should hold out for

Willson Throwbathit McLeadership

Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.

by Thnikkaman on Nov 17, 2011 2:36 PM MST up reply actions  

one of fangraphs new writers thinks the Rockies are way overvaluing Fowler

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/what-are-the-rockies-doing-with-dexter-fowler/

"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 17, 2011 2:34 PM MST via mobile reply actions  

Interesting thoughts...

I think the FO’s fear is that if we give them Dexter for Prado but can’t get Sizemore, we’re SOL in the outfield, defensively. I know there are defensive metrics that point towards Dexter not being great in the outfield, but I think we all know he’s more of an asset at Coors than Smith.

Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...

by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 17, 2011 2:49 PM MST up reply actions  

I snorted when he quoted metrics that
Smith’s defense falls somewhere in between Fowler’s and Gonzalez’s

Hilarious.

Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...

by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 17, 2011 2:53 PM MST up reply actions  

It would be the only thing that falls between Fowler and CarGo...

We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!

In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener

by Junction Rox on Nov 17, 2011 2:55 PM MST up reply actions  

I posted below too quickly

but I can’t agree with you more. Inane.

by Teekalong on Nov 17, 2011 3:04 PM MST up reply actions  

I take offense to this statement

Smith’s defense falls somewhere in between Fowler’s and Gonzalez’s, according to DRS and UZR/150, over 2,500 innings split fairly evenly between center, left and right.

Doesn’t pass the eye test…nope. cam’ on.

all other points are valid, but I like keeping fowler me self and defensive metrics are sooooo gah numbery

The Big Purple Machine will make a believer outta you!

by El Paso Jeff on Nov 17, 2011 2:54 PM MST up reply actions  

Indeed

I’m fascinated by trying to quantify defense – I think a grid of motion detecting lasers on the field is what we’re going to need for defensive metrics to “get there”.

Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...

by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 17, 2011 2:57 PM MST up reply actions  

I hope we havn't aroused the saber rattlers around here...

we are about to get learned….j/k

The Big Purple Machine will make a believer outta you!

by El Paso Jeff on Nov 17, 2011 3:00 PM MST up reply actions  

I don't think anyone feels completely comfortable with defensive metrics.

Some are more comfortable than others, but it’s a sketchy business, particularly if you are using only one or two metrics.

Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com

by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 3:02 PM MST up reply actions  

Haha I'd gladly learn more about them

It just seems even the sabr rattlers shy away from some of the defensive metrics at times :-)

Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...

by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 17, 2011 3:03 PM MST up reply actions  

I agree its adds to the discussion

my head explodes trying to wrap my simple mind around defensive metrics

The Big Purple Machine will make a believer outta you!

by El Paso Jeff on Nov 17, 2011 3:06 PM MST up reply actions  

Like I said

they should just set up a laser grid that detects motion (maybe it would get too much action from squirrels, blowing napkins, etc.) – not only would it be able to tell us where exactly on the field a ball lands, where fielders are positioned at the start and end of the play, how far fielders range to get to a ball, and how quickly, but it would also be able to tell us whether a ball was fair or foul! Just like tennis!

Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...

by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 17, 2011 3:14 PM MST up reply actions  

still have to take account of atmospheric conditions and ball spin off bat,

field proportions and then as if that’s not enough…maybe one scout see’s the play from different angles or has reporting bias??

The Big Purple Machine will make a believer outta you!

by El Paso Jeff on Nov 17, 2011 3:17 PM MST up reply actions  

Yup

And not only do you have to take into account a player’s range, you have to take his glove, arm, fluidity of motion, skill at playing balls off of walls, gaguing windspeed… it’s a much more complicated thing to measure than offense (you get on base or you don’t, you score runs or you don’t).

Offense = success or failure
Defense = a sliding scale of success to failure with a lot more factors to take into consideration

Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...

by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 17, 2011 3:22 PM MST up reply actions  

Any system

that credits Smith as a better fielder than Fowler needs to be reconsidered.

by Teekalong on Nov 17, 2011 3:03 PM MST up reply actions  

Or any SF Giant for that matter.

Colorado Rockies Players on Twitter

"Baseball is dull only to dull minds." ~ Red Barber

by Charlie77 on Nov 17, 2011 3:22 PM MST via mobile up reply actions  

My favorite part about this

is that the cameraman is obviously just as f**king confused as Aubrey Huff – he’s going to go this way… no that way… no this way… oh God dammit where is the ball!?

Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...

by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 17, 2011 3:31 PM MST up reply actions  

That reminds me of playing OF in little league.

Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.

by Thnikkaman on Nov 17, 2011 3:33 PM MST up reply actions  

This isn't the system's fault...

This is user error by the writer.

First and foremost, she’s comparing UZR from a defensive-intensive position with UZR from less intensive positions. She should have at least factored in positional adjustment in this case, as their defensive value isn’t solely a merit of how they do in the field, but also where they’re capable enough to perform.

But let’s start at the beginning. What does UZR and DRS tell us about Smith?? Well, it says he’s got above-average range for a corner outfielder, but his arm is junk – especially in right, which is a position that requires a good arm. Both metrics tend to agree on this point, although DRS says that arm is really, really effin’ bad and UZR thinks it’s just kinda bad.

I’ll admit to only seeing about 1/3 of the games (and even then, watching another simultaneously many times…with occasional naps), but I’m sure some here can confirm or deny these findings with the eye test. But, before you do, remember that Carlos Quentin and Carlos Lee have played in the OF a lot and that the metrics are measured in relation to Smith’s positional peers. There’s plenty of OFs that really skew the curve of what’s considered average in a decidedly-downward fashion.

On to Fowler…this one’s a little more difficult, so bear with me. Both agree that is arm is just barely below-average. I don’t think that will shock anyone. DRS measures ability to take away homers, and Fowler’s got a positive there, larger than his arm detractor. I think these pass the eye test.

When looking at his range and fielding ability, 2009 jumps out and socks me in the face. Both have his range at horribly negative. Let’s look at that.

We are all well aware that physics don’t work the same at Coors Field. That can confound new fielders. I mean, having a ball that should go 300 feet in normal atmosphere travel 30 feet or so farther can really throw off your routes.

Fortunately, the Rockies’ AAA farm system can help acclimate new fielders to these uncanny physics. Except Dexter never played AAA before reaching MLB. That, in hindsight, may not have been a good plan.

So this is a huge wrench. I’m inclined to throw it out, despite every statistical reason to not do that. It’s simply too large an outlier to take seriously. So, I’m now going to judge this on an admittedly small sample (3 years minimum is ideal). When figuring overall, that year will be replaced by the mean of the other two years. Fowler’s range, for CF, does seem to be lacking on both metrics, from slightly below-average to just plain below average.

Before positional adjustment, I have Smith at +8 runs at corner spots (both are really close to that amount) and Dexter at -5 to -14. Let’s split the difference and call it pretty bad, -9.

Then there’s a positional adjustment. Smith’s comes to -12.8 runs above replacement, while Fowler’s is +5.1 RAR. Add it in, and you’ll see that they’re pretty close to the same fielder. They both fall at about -4 to -5 over a three-year sample (excluding Fowler’s 2009 numbers but adding in the mean value of his 2010-11 DRS and UZR findings).

This puts them at both slightly below average on a yearly basis, -1 to -2 runs above replacement. They provide similar values when at their respective positions.

If they were to switch positions, all bets are off and need a pretty significant sample size to determine their success or failure at that position. It’s easy to assume that Fowler would be better in LF/RF, but the ease of the position negates his value there. It’s equally likely that Smith would be average at best, performance-wise, but that the value of having him be able to play there (if it’s even possible at this point, dude hasn’t done it in awhile) would negate some of his poor play.

By not addressing the positions they play as a major component of their defensive value, Thurm has incorrectly attributed Fowler as a better fielder, rather than as a fielder of fairly similar caliber.

Okay, that was about the best I could do with my still-limited knowledge of these defensive metrics. I imagine why that’s also why everyone else was wise enough to not bother with this ridiculous task.

-C

It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?

by cthabeerman on Nov 17, 2011 5:29 PM MST up reply actions  

Go look at willy taveras career numbers

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Nov 17, 2011 5:33 PM MST up reply actions  

This is correct.

However, I would say that this is still partly a problem with the system. We don’t adjust batting stats based on place in the lineup.

Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com

by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 5:42 PM MST up reply actions  

Of course not...

Because it makes no sense to adjust stats for place in the lineup. Every batter’s job is exactly the same, essentially. Get on base, don’t get out. How they do it is their business, though there are strategical moves in which sacrificing an out can be beneficial.

If you’re suggesting that every fielder’s job is the same and can each be accomplished by doing the same things, that’s completely false. Literally every position on the diamond faces different challenges that are unique to the position. The same isn’t true of the batter’s box. The reasoning for having the system broken down by position is fundamentally solid.

-C

It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?

by cthabeerman on Nov 18, 2011 8:53 AM MST up reply actions  

I mean, he's right.

I’ve noticed we’ve been overvaluing a lot of our players this offseason, Dex definitely included.

We’re really banking on the hope that 2nd-half 2011 Dex is the real Dex from now on… I dunno.

@CentralCaliRox

by CentralCaliRox on Nov 17, 2011 5:50 PM MST up reply actions  

Rockies to sign Brandon Wood.

Link.

RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder

by Greg Stanwood on Nov 17, 2011 5:28 PM MST reply actions  

Wonder if it’s a minor league deal…either way, fairly low-risk move with some reward possible, I’d imagine. I wanted the Braves to look into the possibility as a depth security measure for Chipper.

-C

It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?

by cthabeerman on Nov 17, 2011 5:30 PM MST up reply actions  

I can pretty much guarantee it's a minor league deal.

RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder

by Greg Stanwood on Nov 17, 2011 5:31 PM MST up reply actions  

Let's hope Landsford can pull a winter miracle with him.

"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana

by Oldfoagie on Nov 17, 2011 5:33 PM MST up reply actions  

From Jon Heyman:
Brandon wood agrees w/ #rockies (as @Ken_Rosenthal said). will receive 100 grand over minimum if he makes club

by holly96 on Nov 17, 2011 5:37 PM MST up reply actions  

I like it no risk some upside

he will rake in CS

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Nov 17, 2011 5:42 PM MST up reply actions  

If by raking, you mean....

hit somewhere above his ML career .186 BA, I suppose so.

by evers44 on Nov 17, 2011 5:52 PM MST up reply actions  

He Really Really Really

likes the PCL he had a .970 OPS in SL as a 23 YO SS

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Nov 17, 2011 5:54 PM MST up reply actions  

you or i could put up a .970 OPS in the PCL

and i for one am not 23 yet

the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.

by papality on Nov 17, 2011 6:32 PM MST up reply actions  

For some reason I thought you were closer to 43

"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 17, 2011 7:32 PM MST up reply actions  

i'm....

flattered?

the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.

by papality on Nov 17, 2011 9:15 PM MST up reply actions  

If we sign a Brandon a day for long enough

eventually we’re bound to end up with Brandon Phillips…

We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!

In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener

by Junction Rox on Nov 17, 2011 5:58 PM MST up reply actions  

he of the .126/.225/.289 career line

man, i’m loving the aggressive offseason o’dowd’s putting together.

the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.

by papality on Nov 17, 2011 6:29 PM MST up reply actions  

November 17.

It’s November freaking 17th.

@CentralCaliRox

by CentralCaliRox on Nov 17, 2011 6:47 PM MST up reply actions  

cmon, i just want to freak out a bit

don’t remind me that there’s plenty of time.

the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one.

by papality on Nov 17, 2011 6:48 PM MST up reply actions  

NO.

You must not freak out. We’re talking about Dan O’Dowd and the Colorado Rockies here.

Lol.

@CentralCaliRox

by CentralCaliRox on Nov 17, 2011 11:29 PM MST up reply actions  

It's just a minor-league deal.

I don’t see the downside, and I don’t see how this is any kind of indication going forward.

by holly96 on Nov 17, 2011 6:48 PM MST up reply actions  

Just put this in the Mike Jacobs/Brad Eldred/Josh Fields category

"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 17, 2011 7:36 PM MST up reply actions  

Lets dream that he is a leg kick away from being our Vogelsong

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Nov 18, 2011 6:37 AM MST up reply actions  

This amuses me more than it should

Wood’s OPS+ in Pittsburgh last year: 73
In Los Angeles/Anaheim: negative zero. That’s what it says.

"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 17, 2011 7:38 PM MST up reply actions  

Does that mean that the universe bends around Wood.

RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder

by Greg Stanwood on Nov 17, 2011 8:14 PM MST up reply actions  

No, just curveballs, I think...

We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!

In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener

by Junction Rox on Nov 17, 2011 8:21 PM MST up reply actions  

JFK's Quote of the Day:

“I wouldn’t mind seeing someone erase my record of hitting into four triple plays.” ~Brooks Robinson

"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK

by jrockies on Nov 17, 2011 5:46 PM MST reply actions  

OT: Setting up FTP accounts for PRMLB

I just completely fried my site by one click of the wrong button. Damn cpanel. Luckily, I had everything backed up.

Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com

by DumbAndNerdy on Nov 17, 2011 8:01 PM MST reply actions  

OT: Tebow

that is all…

We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!

In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener

by Junction Rox on Nov 17, 2011 9:48 PM MST reply actions  

Huh

Can I call him scrappy?

"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 17, 2011 10:16 PM MST up reply actions  

I call him a beautiful disaster...

to the long-term success of the Broncos.

As soon as teams get accustomed to gameplanning for Tebow, he’ll go the way of the Wildcat. Enjoy the wins while they last, but understand that each victory only promotes keeping this flawed strategy intact.

On the other hand, tremendously impressed with the defensive effort.

-C

It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?

by cthabeerman on Nov 18, 2011 8:58 AM MST up reply actions  

Yes the Defense

thats what I can’t stand about the MHR. Most people there are so color blind that they think its all Tebow and they drink the Tebow kool aid everyday and think hes awesome. the reason we are winning is because of our defense

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Nov 18, 2011 9:15 AM MST up reply actions  

Seriously

The only jersey I’d seriously consider purchasing right now is Von Miller’s… Tebow needs to show me 4 solid quarters (the way the defense has) before I’ll jump on the bandwagon.

Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...

by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 18, 2011 4:05 PM MST up reply actions  

Brandon Wood is younger than Cole Garner

and barely older than Casey Weathers…

"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 17, 2011 10:14 PM MST reply actions  

So he still has time?

"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK

by jrockies on Nov 17, 2011 10:15 PM MST up reply actions  

Hey, if I've learned anything from

guys like Bautista, Nelson Cruz, Andres Torres, it’s that anything is possible….but usually not in our farm system…

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Nov 17, 2011 10:18 PM MST up reply actions  

At least not with hitters

Belisle and de la Rosa are good examples.

"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 17, 2011 10:20 PM MST up reply actions  

And Cliff Lee!

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Nov 18, 2011 10:15 AM MST up reply actions  

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