Rockies Targeting Ramon Hernandez?
by Andrew Martin on Nov 28, 2011 1:43 PM MST
in Transactions & Rumors
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PrintAccording to Ken Rosenthal of Fox Sports, the Rockies are actively pursuing catcher Ramon Hernandez, formerly of the Cincinnati Reds. Hernandez is a Type B Free Agent, reclassified from Type A this offseason, and will not cost the Rockies a draft pick to sign.
Rosenthal adds that new Angels GM Jerry Dipoto is interested in longtime Rockies catcher Chris Iannetta. One can only hope that the Rockies would demand a solid return for their backstop. Despite being a controversial character, given his generally quiet demeanor and low batting average, Iannetta has posted a.235/.357/.430 line in a Rockies uniform. His value has dropped, however, as his bat has cooled since a strong 2008 campaign, but Iannetta has posted a respectable .225/.349/.423 line since 2009.
Hernandez, 35, has posted similar OPS figures to Iannetta, namely a .280/.348/.413 line since joining the Reds, and would be a favorable stopgap should the Rockies not be confident in top catching prospect Wilin Rosario's ability to stick in the majors in 2012.
Per Fangraphs, Iannetta was a 3.3 WAR catcher in 2011, while Hernandez was worth 2 WAR.
Depending on the sticker price on Hernandez and the return from the Angels on Iannetta, this could be a very solid move for Colorado.
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Dan Haren
nothing less
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
Seems like it
But I can think of at least 10 GM’s that would probably fracture their skulls banging their heads against the wall if the Angels traded any of their big 3 straight-up for CDI. We’d likely be adding a top ten PuRP, like a Bettis or a Wheeler-equivalent (CF is the one position they have covered).
by BostonTransplant on Nov 28, 2011 3:21 PM MST up reply actions
3 WAR Catcher for a 3 WAR Pitcher
Seems like a better fit then you suggest. We might have to throw in something else, but hardly a top ten guy.
It's Jim Tracy's Fault.
I think we all know that SP's are valued differently in the real world
Maybe they shouldn’t be. But a guy like Santana, who is still young and healthy and is a legit threat to shut anyone down any given day … normally he’d get a better return than CDI. There’s also the fan reaction to consider for a new GM. What do you think the non-SABR-oriented Angel fans would say if they traded one of their Big 3 for a guy who hits 230?
by BostonTransplant on Nov 28, 2011 3:45 PM MST up reply actions
You're crazy if you think CDI is going to net us Ervin Santana.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Nov 28, 2011 3:58 PM MST up reply actions
I never said CDI for Santana Straight up Please read my other comments below my initial one before resorting to calling me crazy
It's Jim Tracy's Fault.
We MIGHT have to throw in somebody else, but not a top 10 guy?
C’mon now.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Nov 28, 2011 7:13 PM MST up reply actions
They have a new GM though, and one that made a pretty good trade with said Angels to steal Tyler Skaggs.
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 28, 2011 10:00 PM MST up reply actions
Wouldn't it be easier to replace the manager
than to replace the starting catcher that said manager doesn’t like?
Think about how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! --George Carlin
by J_Stone on Nov 28, 2011 3:09 PM MST reply actions 3 recs
We wouldn't be replacing Iannetta because we don't like him ...
We’d be replacing him because we had to trade him to the Angels to get something in return.
by BostonTransplant on Nov 28, 2011 3:19 PM MST up reply actions
I agree with this rec!
"There's no crying in baseball" - Tom Hanks in "A League of Their Own"
"Ninety percent of this game is mental, the other half is physical" - Yogi Berra
"We made too many wrong mistakes" - Yogi Berra (again)
"I believe there is a universal truth to the process of doing things right."
- Huston Street
"Jim Tracy is not my HomeBoy" - me
by purpleJerseygirl on Nov 29, 2011 7:32 AM MST up reply actions
just sayin' cuz its a slow day
a Walk is just as good as a hit….in this situation….
and I’m out…
The Big Purple Machine will make a believer outta you!
Lot's of variables here.
Given the gross underappreciation and general jerking around Iannetta suffers at the hands of his incompetent boss, as much as I like CDI, part of me hopes that he gets traded this offseason just because I’d be happy for him personally. And there are plenty of Angels for whom I’d trade Iannetta.
All that being said, I just don’t believe in Rosario as a prospect, especially not in 2012, so for me to be happy about an Iannetta trade as a fan, I’d definitely need to see Hernandez in a Rockies uniform first (or immediately subsequent). In that case, I could probably stomach the drop-off from Iannetta to Hernandez – even thought we’ll likely have to pay more for Hernandez then CDI – with the assumption that the return we get from the Angels upgrades the rotation/2B/OF.
But of course it all depends on who that guy is. Haren, Santana, or Kendrick would all be dreams-come-true, but it’d take more than CDI to make any of that happen. Burjous would work for me. After that, things get sketchy. We’ll see, I guess.
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
Peter Bourjos isn't going anywhere...
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Nov 28, 2011 4:00 PM MST up reply actions
they have trout
bourjos is expendable to them
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one, but trading wiggy to the phillies totally makes it okay
PRMLB Arizona Diamondbacks GM
24 year old just posted a 5 WAR season.
And people are suggesting Iannetta for Bourjos straight up?
This is a joke.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Nov 28, 2011 4:03 PM MST up reply actions
He had a great season...
…but I don’t think anybody, even the Angels brass, believes that was a legit 5 WAR season. WAR isn’t a perfect stat, of course.
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
Doesn't matter.
The Angels would command MUCH more than Chris Iannetta for Peter Bourjos. Really.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Nov 28, 2011 4:11 PM MST up reply actions
I agree that it'd take more than just Iannetta...
…but beyond that, I guess it depends on how we define “MUCH.” Again, there’s a deal to be made here.
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
Iannetta + Parker + Bettis.
Angels come off as a team that would want major league ready players.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Nov 28, 2011 4:17 PM MST up reply actions
I meant to say I'm not sure those 3 names would cut it.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Nov 28, 2011 4:18 PM MST up reply actions
you don't think those 3 would get bourjos?
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one, but trading wiggy to the phillies totally makes it okay
PRMLB Arizona Diamondbacks GM
Brad Johnson says:
November 7, 2011 at 4:21 pm
Dunston, I think most everybody is considering him to be a roughly 95-105 wRC+ hitter with borderline elite defense. That’s a profile for a consistent 3.5 win player who will probably always earn considerably less than he’s worth because his skill set is traditionally undervalued.
we could take advantage of that undervalue. the upgrade from mathis to iannetta is colossal. if we trade smith for someone, we’d have easily the best defensive outfield in MLB, and one of the best offensively as well. iannetta and matzek could probably get it done, and we could throw in someone like scahill or campos to contribute. as nice a guy as dipoto is, why shouldn’t we try to maybe catch him off-guard in his first season as the new GM?
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one, but trading wiggy to the phillies totally makes it okay
PRMLB Arizona Diamondbacks GM
that quote is from
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-angels-would-be-nuts-to-trade-peter-bourjos/
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one, but trading wiggy to the phillies totally makes it okay
PRMLB Arizona Diamondbacks GM
Ridiculous!
Iannetta is signed for just one more season. Bourjos is under team control for five more seasons.
Matzek’s value is so low right now. Campos/Scahill are lower-tiered prospects.
It’s just not even close, IMO.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Nov 28, 2011 4:16 PM MST up reply actions
where did you rank matzek on your recent PuRPs list?
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one, but trading wiggy to the phillies totally makes it okay
PRMLB Arizona Diamondbacks GM
Not sure that matters, at all.
You really think the Angels are as high on Matzek as us Rockies fans? No. They’ll look at those fugly numbers and hang up the phone.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Nov 28, 2011 4:18 PM MST up reply actions
if they're educated about him then they'll value him
dipoto isn’t reagins
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one, but trading wiggy to the phillies totally makes it okay
PRMLB Arizona Diamondbacks GM
Where did the Bourjos idea come from?
That’s just strange. For one thing, the Angels are desperate for offense, and he’s one of their best offensive players. For another, he’s a classic CF whose defensive skills are inefficiently used elsewhere … and we of course have one, if not two, of those. For another, he’s young and cheap and incredibly valuable. Probably near his peak value-wise. Half of baseball would be calling offering their starting catcher if he were available (OK, maybe not half …)
No, this is apparently a longshot preparation for the possibility that the Angels might sign Wilson or Kuroda (or Buerhle) and have a SP available. In that case, they really are swimming in pitchers, as they’d have a big 4 plus two really good prospects, and a veteran who came out of nowhere and pitched really well at the end of last year too. We’d likely be aiming not for Santana or Haren, but at one of those elite prospects (one’s named Chatwood … the other I can’t remember but he’s even better).
by BostonTransplant on Nov 28, 2011 4:29 PM MST up reply actions
I agree with most of that first paragraph except for the part about him being a CF so his defense would be ill-used. Brett Gardner has been something like a 5 win player, largely on account of his CF caliber defense being deployed in LF.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
PRMLB: The Brew Crew
gardner is so good at LF, in fact,
that he hurts granderson’s value at CF
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one, but trading wiggy to the phillies totally makes it okay
PRMLB Arizona Diamondbacks GM
Mike Trout will wait the year out and the Angels start him
for the next 10 years once Hunter becomes a FA.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
While Bourjos stays as their CF
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
trout is an even better CF than bourjos
bourjos moves to RF with wells in LF
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one, but trading wiggy to the phillies totally makes it okay
PRMLB Arizona Diamondbacks GM
It doesn't matter
With Trout still needing minor league seasoning, it doesn’t make sense for them to trade Bourjos.
The Angels will try to do Callaspo for Iannetta, or send prospects. I guarantee it.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
If it's the right prospect, I'd be very happy with that
Angels have some pretty good ones.
by BostonTransplant on Nov 28, 2011 6:11 PM MST up reply actions
I'd want a starting middle infielder that can start now
The Angels have that. However, I think the important thing here is that the Angels have the leverage. They have the need at catcher but only for a year because of Conger, they’re interested in getting Iannetta for cheap because Tracy values him so lowly.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
Don't think they're sold on Conger in the slightest
Scioscia (rumor has it) has always loved CDI. I think this is a legit attempt to find a win-win trade. Probably won’t work, but it could and I don’t think the Angels are just trying to rip us off.
by BostonTransplant on Nov 28, 2011 6:41 PM MST up reply actions
Don't be so sure...
The Angels outfield is pretty crowded and they need to make room for Mike Trout. I’m sure they’d rather move Wells or Hunter, but thier contracts are too rich for that. Hunter only has one more year, so the logjam clears itself after 2012, and they could move Wells/Hunter to DH, but either of those options represents a bit a of talent waste.
I’m not saying that all it’d take to get Bourjos is Iannetta, but I think there’s a deal to be made here.
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
Absolutely correct.
I shouldn’t have been so hasty with that comment.
But Peter Bourjos is one of the top young outfielders in all of MLB right now. He’s cheap for a few more years. He’s coming off a very good year.
Why would the Angels not command top talent?
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Nov 28, 2011 4:13 PM MST up reply actions
"Top young outfielder in all of MLB?"
I think you’re overvaluing Bourjos a bit. Not that this means he won’t be a great pro, but the guy was never a highly regarded prospect coming up. He cracked BA’s top 100 once at #97 and never did THAT much in the minors. He had a terrific year last year, but that’s one year, and that 5 bWAR is way inflated in my opinion. He still strikes out too much, doesn’t have elite power, and didn’t steal bases at a very efficient clip either.
I don’t meant to tear the guy down. Like i said, I’d love to see him come back in a trade. If nothing else, imagine that outfield defense at Coors! And he’d be cheap in salary, too. But to call him one of the best young outfielders in all of MLB is a little premature, at best.
One last note on the WAR. Fangraphs has him at a 4.3 for last year. A little more believeable to me then the bWAR (though I still wouldn’t expect him to repeat that next fWAR next year, either). And Fangraphs has Iannetta at 3.3 for last year. Of course, there are lots more variables here, including the contract status. But if we’re going to use WAR as a starting point for evaluating trades (I’m not saying that we should), the gap between Iannetta and Bourjos isn’t THAT huge.
Again, it WOULD take more than Iannetta. It should and I’d be ok with that. But the gap isn’t so big that a deal couldn’t be negotiated here, especially since the Angels have a need at C and a even younger/better CF as thier top organizational prospect.
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
fisher posted this in the RP, but it deserves serious consideration, so i'll mention it here too:
Iannetta and Matzek for Peter Bourjos
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one, but trading wiggy to the phillies totally makes it okay
PRMLB Arizona Diamondbacks GM
Not sure Matzek's value is very high right now..
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Nov 28, 2011 3:59 PM MST up reply actions
Not sure how crazy I am about Bourjos
he seems pretty dependent upon BABIP given his low walk rate and high k-rate. I kinda feel like he’ll come here, his k-rate will go up a bit and he’ll bat like .240. That being said, his defense is friggin’ fantastic – if he comes here, UZR will hate him, but we’ll all know better.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
PRMLB: The Brew Crew
I should also add that
I think I’d still rather attempt to trade for Jean Segura. No clue how DiPoto views him and it wouldn’t surprise me if the dude was totally off limits, but he seems like he’d be a pretty solid fix for our 2b problems.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
PRMLB: The Brew Crew
Re: K rate
is G-d awful especially when you consider is walk rate is also atrocious. a BB/K rate of .15 and .26 in his two season in the bigs is top 10 worst in the league bad.
Hey kids ... Andrew McCutcheon's available. Discuss.
Would anyone here include Arenado in a package for Cutch?
by BostonTransplant on Nov 28, 2011 4:36 PM MST reply actions
nope
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
PRMLB: The Brew Crew
He's awesome
but like he doesn’t really fit a need for us. Would he improve us? Absolutely, but I think he’d improve other teams more so I think we’d have to give up a ton to get him and I’m not sure it’d be worth it. Especially since then we’d basically replace Smith with him and still have black holes at 3b and 2b…
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
PRMLB: The Brew Crew
Alright ... impeccable logic
He’s not only “sorta,” “slow news day” available.
by BostonTransplant on Nov 28, 2011 4:45 PM MST up reply actions
I mean, he's not really available.
Just one of those “if someone blows us away” deals.
by BostonTransplant on Nov 28, 2011 4:46 PM MST up reply actions
believe me man
I feel ya on it. An OF of CarGo, Dex, and McCutchen would be sick.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
PRMLB: The Brew Crew
we would have to send arenado, bettis, white, and anyone else you could think of with value
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one, but trading wiggy to the phillies totally makes it okay
PRMLB Arizona Diamondbacks GM
I doubt that
Dude only hit 259 last year, and OPS’ed around Seth Smith territory. As a hitter, he’s not that elite, or wasn’t last year.
But anyway, the Pirates have already smacked around the dude that leaked his availability, and he’s off the board.
by BostonTransplant on Nov 28, 2011 6:13 PM MST up reply actions
his BABIP was 20 points below his career average
and he still put up 6 WAR, and isn’t arb eligible yet.
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one, but trading wiggy to the phillies totally makes it okay
PRMLB Arizona Diamondbacks GM
Arenado should be off limits for any trade
Rockies are desperate for a 3B, the 3B market is generally thin, & Arenado is less than a year away. They’d be insane to trade him, and they simply aren’t going to do it.
I think he should be pretty close to off limits,
but I would make one exception for a young, cost controlled TOR starter. Say if the Rays decided to dangle David Price, for instance, I’d be open to discussing Arenado, but otherwise, no.
i would trade anyone
but Cargo, Tulo Arenado and Pomeranz for Cutch… or a combination ofany players besides them.
MOZGOD Enthusiast Member 71
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@Garrett_Olsen
by NastyNessy71 on Nov 28, 2011 11:51 PM MST up reply actions
Wow. Nats going hard after Fielder.
Interesting way to build a team: Suck for a long time and accumulate very high draft picks. Then just when those guys are ready to start their MLB careers, overpay for 3-4 superstars on long term contracts. Just about when the kids are ready to earn huge bucks, the superstar contracts will start to expire. Rinse, repeat.
Might just work.
by BostonTransplant on Nov 28, 2011 6:35 PM MST reply actions
Per MLB Trade rumors....
Rox looking at Broxton, Dioner Navarro and still chatting w/Latroy Hawkins.
Broxton’s looking for a one year deal to reestablish value, and those kinds of pitchers don’t typically come here if other teams are interested, But still, he’d be fun to have if he could get back his velocity.
I have no idea what happened to Navarro after putting some decent seasons together in TB. Low risk, high reward guy, I guess. How he fits into the Iannetta/Rosario/Ramon Hernandez equation is a mystery.
As for Hawkins, I’m always happy to have a guy like that in the pen.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/11/rockies-inquired-on-navarro-hawkins-broxton.html
agree on all points.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Nov 28, 2011 10:52 PM MST up reply actions
Supposedly Broxton to the Royals
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Nov 29, 2011 8:04 AM MST up reply actions
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