Sunday Rockpile: Rockies "Rising Stars" don't make impression, but Ty Wigginton does
by Rox Girl on Nov 6, 2011 7:47 AM MDT
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PrintRockies prospects were mostly unimpressive in the AFL All-Star contest, not that anything can be judged about players from any individual game.
The same small sample caveat applies to Ty Wigginton, who homered for the U.S. "All Star" team that visited and beat the Taiwan national team today. Ah, the joys of Daylight Savings when mixed with news from across the Pacific and the International Date Line.
Troy Renck reports that the Rockies may look into bringing Jamey Carroll back, but figures that the cost will be too prohibitive, and the same may apply to Mark Ellis. He also strikes a pessimistic chord in the team's pursuit of Michael Cuddyer with the Phillies among several teams interested. Renck says that the Rockies will look at David Wright, dubbing him a longshot as well as Cuddyer. From the Mets side, they seem serious about moving Wright, and are looking for a "defensive oriented center-fielder plus an arm or two." Joel Sherman says that their current focus is with the Angels and Peter Bourjos, but given the parameters, you would have to figure a trade with the Rockies would include Dexter Fowler.
Renck also brings up Kevin Youkilis as a possible fit at third, and as a first base substitute, but Youkilis would seem to be in a danger zone as far as his age and projected future value is concerned. With the Braves shopping Martin Prado and Jair Jurrjens, who both happen to fit Rockies needs, they might also be possibilities at this point and Renck says that Prado in particular should be followed closely. He offers Seth Smith as an exchange possibility for Prado, but Smith might not be that much more cost effective, albeit he does have more power, which is what the Braves are after. The Braves price tag for the pair seems like it may be prohibitive given what they asked of Kansas City.
In addition to Jurrjens on the pitching front, Renck's list is a bit more compact, as there are finally signs that the Rockies may be moving on from Carl Pavano, looking instead to his teammate Kevin Slowey, as well as the likely more desirable trio of Wandy Rodriguez, Wade Davis and Jon Danks. Slowey, despite not being able to crack the Twins rotation which Pavano has, I feel is a better fit for the Rockies needs than Pavano due to his more likely durability.
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Slowey
Slowey and durability don’t go together. Neither does it with Pavano, but at least he’s been healthier than Slowey the past two Seasons. Still see a deal with Houston involving Wandy Rodriguez, that will probably include Stewart (if he ever gets healthy).
And if the Braves are seriously listening to offers for Prado, I’d tell them that Parker is available.
You're right on Slowey
The wording of that paragraph could definitely use some work to convey my meaning. I might edit it later, but the chances of an oft injured 28 year old being healthy going forward are generally a bit better than the chances of an oft injured 36 year old. I guess I’m saying that I feel there’s less risk with Slowey despite the last two seasons.
Slowey
Not degrading your Blog, just also know that Slowey was on the Trade Block (allegedly) all last Season, but he remained with the Twins. Could it be because of his Surgery and injury? In my opinion, it is. Any Team that deals for him will have to take this into serious consideration. I really like Slowey, but the injuries have really limited his potential.
As for Davis, I believe Tampa is in no hurry to deal him. They easily could, with Moore and Cobb ready to join the Rotation. I also think they’d want more for Davis than the Braves would want for Jurrjens.
And once the change in Ownership in Houston is voted on in a couple of weeks (and move to the AL), new Owner Jim Crane will want to pare more Payroll. Hence, Rodriguez and Myers will have to go, or at least one of them. Ed Wade is known League-wide that he is clueless when it comes to deals (see: the Oswalt and Bourn deals), and will probably kick-in more Money to make it work, just like he did with the two Major Deals he did a couple of Months ago. Weathers, Stewart, and another minor, Minor Leaguer should do it, imo.
Slowey has been a name tossed about...
by Renck for the past several years, it seems. I’ll believe it when I see it, and don’t think this is too exciting a move were it to actually happen.
Weathers, Stewart, and another minor, Minor Leaguer should do it, imo.
I’m much less sure of this than you, considering he asked for Pomeranz and Rosario in August
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 6, 2011 8:44 AM MST up reply actions
Enigmatic Eddie Wade
Wade will have no choice, since this will be his last gig as a GM. He’ll have to listen to what Crane wants, just like he’s done with Unkie Drayton. Rox (or any other Team) will be in the Driver’s Seat in negotiations with Enigmatic Eddie. Just take a look at his HUGE pickups this past week for the Astros (Tatum and Bixler), and you’ll see that he’s clueless.
You're perhaps overestimating where Slowey would fit in the Rockies picture for next season
Absolutely his surgery and performance of the last two years has taken his value down, that’s a part of what makes him intriguing as it might not cost anything at all to acquire him and he’s not likely to demand much in salary. Add in that he has several seasons of MLB experience but is still on the right side of 30, and he makes for a very attractive bounceback candidate. A Slowey acquisition almost certainly would also be accompanied by another pitcher pick-up, but it’s definitely something worth looking into.
Like Andrew Fisher below states, I think you underestimate the cost for Rodriguez, even though the Astros certainly won’t get what they were asking for during the summer.
Pomeranz and White
If the Rox Front Office is expecting both Pomz and White to spend all (or most) of the 2012 Season in the Rotation, it’s going to be a long Season… One could stick, but not both. De La Rosa won’t be back for a full Season, who knows when on Nicasio, Millwood and Cook are Free Agents. Going into next Season with Chacin, Rogers, and Hammel as your top-three SP’s, is flat-out scary!
Slowey, when healthy, is above Rogers and Hammel, imo. So, the Rox need another bonafide SP, or two. That way, they can keep either Pomz or White in the Minors a bit longer. Maybe both. Throwing them both to the wolves next Season could be disastrous, imo.
I agree with most of this,
I think that’s why pairing a Slowey type with a Millwood type makes a lot of sense for a bottom of the rotation slot, without costing much, but think the Rockies should keep their eye out for a more stable MOR type like Rodriguez, or preferably Danks, if they could find one at a decent cost in dollars/prospects.
I think where I have a slight disagreement would be the “Chacin, Rogers, and Hammel as your top-three SP’s” assertion, as the situation is a bit more nuanced than that. While the chances of any specific Rockies younger starter breaking through or being ready to contribute at a quality level above those three are low, cumulatively the chances are pretty good. There’s a strong possibility that Pomeranz, White or Nicasio will be better than Rogers and Hammel next Spring.
Then we'll never be any good
Take out the phrase “… if they could find one at a decent cost in dollars/prospects,” and I’m 100% with you. Good players cost big dollars and good prospects, because most other organizations can evaluate players too, and none are going to do us any favors.
by BostonTransplant on Nov 6, 2011 12:01 PM MST up reply actions
I don't know if we actually disagree.
I mean only to make sure the cost in trade is fair, not to only hunt for bargain basement deals as the team has been the past few seasons.
For a good player
giving up a good player or paying good money would probably be considered a “decent price”.
The idea that this franchise can go out and simply throw above market contracts at players or overpay in terms of prospects, just because it would be cool to land player X at any cost is simply not going to work. Like it or not, there are limitations this franchise has to work within, and there is a need for this franchise to develop some % of their roster from their system. To expect otherwise is not going to lead anywhere but disappointment and frustration.
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Nov 6, 2011 12:42 PM MST up reply actions
I'm not saying the club has to go for the top FA's or trade for headliners.
There are lesser people available to get you to at least average in aggregate. I’t’s part of why i harp for complete hitters. I’d take a quality bat in Headley who is fourth to sixth among 3b available and not spend on a more expensive Wright.. I’d take a Staufer or a Jurrjens instead of a CJ Wilson. I’d find people that can contribute all around and maybe not be All Stars. A lot of players who might be a #10 to #15 can give you a contending team. It’s happened over and over again in history and in particular after expansion.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
I know that's not what you've been saying
I was addressing a few comments that BT has made about “when will we start overpaying for players?”
I totally agree with you about complete hitters, and would also prefer Headley over Wright. Haven’t thought about the pitchers, but what you’re saying sounds good on the surface at least..
The thing that worried me going into the season this year was the holes in the lineup. Not nearly enough protection for Tulo, not enough guys who can get on base or be effective situational hitters. They relied on Stewart for that, who was never consistent enough to provide a real threat behind Tulo imo. Even before he went over the cliff. Without him, there was simply no true 5 hole hitter at all. Constructing a complete lineup is crucial. Where I will agree with BT and some others is that probably requires at least 1 more top tier offensive threat for the 5 hole. But primarily, I think this team needs to load up solid, reliable talent from 1-25 (plus a few more viable replacements in the system). It’s a long season, and ultimately you have to have that.
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
I agree with you about a #5 hitter...Headley could be that or a #3 that's on in front of Tulo with Cargo at #5
I’m not saying it has to be Headley either. I just think he best fits our needs value wise and I like the Ides of him being around while Arenado has the inevitable adjustment period/ sophmore slump. I also like the idea of him being around if Todd falters. All that and he fill in LF too.
That said I’m not against Prado, or Murphy or someone else of that ilk. I am warier of older vets with injury histories past age 35 which has been my hesitancy on Willingham and Cuddyer; both of whom I’ve admired in the past. That said Jaime Moyer was a paragon of durability before his TJ and I actually think he’d be a good extra pitching coach with so many young guns around.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Willingham is only 32
33 at the start of next season. So I thnk he’s less in that category than you may think. But overall I agree with you.
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
DLR is expected back in June..
And he hasn’t thrown from a mound yet, Nicasio is already throwing from a mound so he should be ready for Opening Day. Then there are several MiLB pitchers waiting in the weeds. I don’t see why someone from this group won’t step up and get promoted by the ASB (Scahill, Friedrich, Bettis, Cabrera).
I’m not scurred.
Colorado Rockies Players on Twitter
"Baseball is dull only to dull minds." ~ Red Barber
by Charlie77 on Nov 6, 2011 10:36 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
Thats fine and all
but we may be forced to play the first half with scrubs. It may take a while for these players to make it, and who knows what we will get when they do.
Hammel and Chacin had down years last season..
Expect them to perform back near their mean. Pomz looks ready and he was missing at least 4 MPH on his fastball from not playing for a month. So we’re basically looking at Millwood for our 5th spot. One more guy like a Danks would give us depth, but I’m telling yuh, one of those 4 will get promoted because they’ll be so impressive.
Colorado Rockies Players on Twitter
"Baseball is dull only to dull minds." ~ Red Barber
by Charlie77 on Nov 6, 2011 10:53 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
Parker is an interesting piece
but I don’t think the Braves make that trade because they are looking for MLB ready outfielders. Thus the reason Smith, Fowler and Blackmon keep coming up here.
Welcome to Purple Row
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
Much Thanks!
Much thanks for the Welcome! I definitely see your point there with Parker, but the Bravos have been wanting Lorenzo Cain for a couple of years, and may still get him if they deal with Kansas City. That’s why I think both Jurrjens and Prado’s Names have surfaced. Rox have young depth in the OF (Blackmon, Wheeler, Parker) to deal one of them, and not be hurt in the near future.
I agree that Braves could get Cain from KC
the big sticking point in what they were asking definitely seemed to be Myers, not Cain. If they would possibly decouple Prado from Jurrjens, and replace Myers with a much lower level prospect, I could easily see them getting a deal done to send Jurrjens to KC. Which I don’t think would hurt the Rockies feelings at all, as Prado is the guy they really seem to want.
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Nov 6, 2011 11:28 AM MST up reply actions
Cain
From what I’ve read this morning (and yesterday), Prado will be the ‘Hot Commodity’ if Cuddyer goes to the Phillies. I read the Phils are willing to give Prado anything. I guess they want him more than keeping Madson, which makes no sense to me.
Did you mean "give Cuddyer anything"?
Otherwise I think I’m a bit lost…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Nov 6, 2011 12:43 PM MST up reply actions
Well the question remains, as always ...
Whether our beloved team is willing to overpay for anyone, ever, in either dollars or prospects. If we dump Street on someone who believes in statistics instead of actually watching pitchers pitch, we should have upwards of $20 million available, even if we don’t increase payroll. For many years, we have only DARED make a move when either a) We’ve been forced to, a la Holliday; b) When we feel we’re getting someone cheap; or c) When all players involved are so insignificant as to make the risk minimal. Good teams, even mid market teams, don’t operate this way. Look at the mid-markets who made the playoffs this year: St. Louis (OK, maybe they’re not quite mid), Milwaukee, Arizona, Tampa. All made big, risky trades in recent years, mostly on the pitching side.
So why CAN’T we compete for Cuddyer, if we want him? Why CAN’T we offer the best deal for Wright, if we want him and can sign him to an extension? Why CAN’T we blow the Red Sox away and go get Youkilis? Hell, why can’t we be the highest offer for Wilson or Buerhle? In reality, there’s no reason. There’s only the team’s “culture,” which is, as noted by Renck, failing.
by BostonTransplant on Nov 6, 2011 8:25 AM MST reply actions
A braintrust with multiple personalities?
I agree largely with your comments, but wonder how this front office mindset that seems to think small is also the same one that thought big a year ago and committed so much long term money to our two big stars? Seems like two entirely different ideas or mindsets they are using, sort of a multiple personality disorder. I happen to think they might have been on the right track with the aggressive, some say premature, Tulo and Cargo extensions last year, but do they realize that two stars surrounded by average role players and below-average dreck won’t get them too far?
The intelligence or wisdom of this franchise leadership has to be called into question after showing two completely contradictory approaches to team building over the past 12 months.
I think they do realize that.
And I think there’s a big difference between locking up your own players before they hit free agency and competing with other teams for high-priced FAs. I don’t think it’s all that contradictory. They’ve shown a willingness to lock up their own guys for years.
I'm much more disheartened by their unwillingness to play with the big boys in the trade market ...
Free agents are hit and miss and I’m OK with the Rox generally staying out of it.
by BostonTransplant on Nov 6, 2011 12:05 PM MST up reply actions
I agree, but there are plenty of mixed signals coming from the FO this winter.
The Renck piece was interesting in stating that the Rockies might not be able to afford Mark Ellis while at the same time reiterating that they are targeting higher priced players. It seems that the Rockies potentially have one decent sized salary ($10 million to $15 million if it’s David Wright) to give out this winter, but they lack direction about who they should target with that money, or if they should break it up into smaller chunks to fill more holes. I’d rather spend money on a more certain contention worthy return with one player and then go bargain hunting at the other positions, and it seems there might be some in the FO that agree with this.
i agree wholeheartedly
i think o’dowd knows his time may be running short, and if a big move pays off, it’ll keep him around for several more years…. tired of the little tinkerings, let’s chuck some change and names around.
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
JFK's Quote of the Day:
“The streak has become my identity; it’s who I’ve become.” ~Cal Ripken Jr.
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
Gio Gonzalez
Is another starter possibly available who would fit what we are looking for. Although I do have reservations for high walk pitchers like him.
What about Cahill as another option?
Supposedly all of Oakland is available. What could he bring to the rotation? Cost?
Cahill
It has been reported that anyone on the A’s Roster is available, besides Weeks. Of course, this again all depends on if the Owners (at the Meetings in a couple of weeks) will allow the Athletics to move to San Jose. If they do, I think Oakland will stand-pat and be buyers. If they don’t, looks like a mini-Fire Sale there.
Cahill definitely fits the bill, as he’s inked through 2015, with Team Options in ‘16 and ’17. May take a couple of good Prospects to get him though. Definitely doesn’t hurt to ask the A’s though.
That's a good idea,
as are Brandon McCarthy and Josh Outman. Really if the A’s are stripping down everything the Rockies should probably also look at Scott Sizemore as a 2B or 3B possibility.
Could we also trade for some Moneyball royalties?
Or a signed Brad Pitt headshot? I still need a Christmas present for my wife.
Colorado Rockies Players on Twitter
"Baseball is dull only to dull minds." ~ Red Barber
by Charlie77 on Nov 6, 2011 10:56 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
Hell Charlie that's probebly the entire A's operating budget.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Would you
settle for 5 signed copies of Moneyball and a signed Jonah Hill headshot?
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Nov 6, 2011 11:32 AM MST up reply actions
Eww
Colorado Rockies Players on Twitter
"Baseball is dull only to dull minds." ~ Red Barber
by Charlie77 on Nov 6, 2011 2:21 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Yeah
head shots can be kind of bloody from what I hear
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
They just bleed and bleed and bleed...
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Whaaaaaaat...
Gonzalez and Cahill are seriously available? Two things… Oakland, you dumb. And DOD, go get one of them. They’ll be expensive but it’ll be worth it.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Nov 6, 2011 2:13 PM MST up reply actions
I had a dream last night that included a complete SportsCenter-type highlight package
of Arenado’s adventures at 3rd base in last night’s game. Seriously. There was voice over, spotlights on the ball in one of the highlights, etc. I was totally something that could have actually been produced. I am so weird.
RG: I think Smith, Fowler, prospect would be a wash money wise for Jurjens, Prado...
If wou constructed the deal right; you’d still have the money to persue a Cuddyer or a Willingham type bat in the outfield while you see what you have in Wheeler and Blackmon. Of course the deal would hinge on which prospect. Or you could ask to take Diaz too, and see what Atlanta wants. Just tell Wren to stop insulting our intelligence from the gitgo.
As for the A’s pitchers I am concerned with all of their conditioning. For one of the most pitcher friendly parks in baseball; they seam to have more injuries as a group than most. It’s one of the things that keeps them in the cellar, I would like to see what they’d want for David Dejesus. They might just want cash. I think I’d rather have him than Willingham anyway.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
DeJesus
David DeJesus is a Free Agent. And, I’d rather have Hammer than him. Willingham may be a year older, and cost a bit more, but he’s put the numbers up. DeJesus hasn’t, too erratic and streaky. He’s basically a Poor Man’s Damon. Seth Smith is better than DeJesus.
DeJesus is a very good fielder, though
Otherwise, I agree. He’s not much.
by BostonTransplant on Nov 6, 2011 12:08 PM MST up reply actions
I really don't know if that's an A's conditioning thing, or just a bad luck run
I’d hope the Rockies do their due diligence before any trade (this would also apply to the Twins Slowey,) and pass if enough flags come up. Still, limiting the potential player pool the team has to choose from doesn’t seem wise to me. If any of the A’s pitchers would bring about as much value as say Wade Davis, but cost less in prospects, I wouldn’t want the team to pass because Oakland pitchers as a group are less healthy than Tampa Bay pitchers.
DeJesus is mildly intriguing, but I don’t know how he’d fit with our already lefty heavy OF group. If we wind up trading Smith or Blackmon, he could be good to come back to as a bench bat.
I'm not sayind not to look at them; (A's pitchers) I'd say I'd be wary doing the due dilligence.
DeJesus runs like the rockies hot one year and cold the next. Yeah he’s another lefty; I haven’t seen him platooned much. I have a hunch that Willingham’s knees are about to go all Beltran on him. Given his history and age it’s an issue i’d check out too.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Also RG...
My crack yesterday about trading for Jack Mckeon was about decisivness and direction.. Thank you for putting your finger on that,
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
In fairness, this really is a tricky off-season for the club
and there are several roads available which look similarly promising or dangerous to pursue. Pitching is needed, but so is offense. Pitching’s not likely to be available to the Rockies via free agency, but the offensive players that are available to the club all have warts. This leaves the trade market, which lacks the ability to completely control the team’s destiny, as there will always be another club involved.
All that said, the perception the Rockies are giving is that of a chicken running around with it’s head cut off. O’Dowd really needs to learn how to make it look like he has a clear plan in mind, even if his hands are tied by the whims of the market that’s available to him.
Pitching is always needed and therfore isn't an excuse.
It’s why eveyone hordes ptichers. The offense has about two to many holes and has had for years. At the Rox payroll level there is no excuse for that. You need to identify who you can afford from other orginizations and find away to fill that org’s need while you fill yours. Do I need to find some one from a culture of hagglers to teach them how to do this?
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Seth Smith and Chris Nelson for Prado and a AA reliever. Do it!
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
That's actually not half bad
Not sure what the Bravos would want with Nelson, but otherwise, the values add up pretty well in my book. The “reliever” would have to be decent, with MLB stuff.
by BostonTransplant on Nov 6, 2011 12:09 PM MST up reply actions
I feel like I read the Braves would want a shortstop guy – also he helps offset Prado’s loss
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
That's true, I guess, but I don't think other orgs think Nelson has ML talent
Especially at SS. Maybe they’d prefer Herrera …
by BostonTransplant on Nov 6, 2011 12:19 PM MST up reply actions
Braves SS
Braves already have a Shortstop Prospect that could be up late next Season in Taylor Pastornicky.
They've said SS is something they're looking to get in return for Prado/Jurrjens
Jason Giambi for player-manager in 2012!
How the world will end in 2012: George of the Roses builds a Machine that Pommels everyone with La Violencia during Whiteouts.
Funny ...
On MLBTR right now all the Braves homers are like “Seth Smith? Are you kidding me? I wouldn’t trade Martin Prado’s JOCK for Seth Smith!” Ah well. The off season is so much fun!
by BostonTransplant on Nov 6, 2011 12:26 PM MST up reply actions
Luckily
I don’t think we’re all that interested in acquiring Martin Prado’s jock…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Nov 6, 2011 12:47 PM MST up reply actions
Let me guess, they think they can somehow trade one Prado for two Prados
I was reading a comment at Talking Chop the other day that suggested Nolan Arenado for Jurrjens.
The bottom line is that while Prado as a 2B/3B may have more value than Smith as an OF, Prado as an OF is less valuable than Smith, and the Braves would upgrade LF and lower their costs if they acquire Seth. Because of the first sentence, I don’t think Smith alone would work, but because of the second, Smith plus a minor prospect might.
Yeah, I'm not sure what more they could ask for ...
I mean, they wanted a power hitting corner outfielder. Not like the Jays are going to offer up Jose Bautista. Smith’s a pretty good return, and reasonable salary too.
Just fun to watch other teams’ fans overvaluing their own players as much as we do. And good for them! That’s what fans are for. Luckily for them, though, their FO doesn’t seem to be so sentimental.
by BostonTransplant on Nov 6, 2011 1:18 PM MST up reply actions
smith plus Diaz could be a pretty good OF combo and Nelson gives them someone to back up across the inf spending time at short and covering for Jones when he’s down. I might throw some cash in there too if would help…
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
Cafardo of Boston Globe says...
that Wade Davis could be had for an outfielder or a catcher when it all comes down to it. Granted, Cafardo doesn’t cover the Rays (covers the BoSox), but doesn’t this just scream another Rockies/Rays match up for a trade? Whether it be Iannetta or Rosario, I think this has to checked out regardless. Davis has a team friendly contract for the next three years with club options the following three years. Do whatever it takes.
I realize I’m preaching to the choir; just thought I’d put my opinion out there.
Rosario is too much
I like Davis too, and at the right price, I’d welcome him here.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Nov 6, 2011 3:51 PM MST up reply actions
Also from Cafardo article:
"Troy Tulowitzki hit 18 doubles before the All-Star break and 18 after. He also hit 18 doubles at home and 18 doubles away.’’
no no
rockies players only hit at home, don’t you know the rules?
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
If you think that I hope you play in the OOTP. :-P
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
It seems like there is something about 18 here....
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
At least it isn't 666!
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
you'd rather him hit 18 doubles in a half-split than 666?
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
Six homers six doubles...
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
6 grand slams
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
You're right
Tulo likes him so that must be it exactly.
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
Would they be willing to take Wiggy off our hands?
So since Wiggy homered in that game yesterday. Does this guarentee him a spot on Opening Day with us if he don’t get traded? I don’t even want him near anything that deals with the Rockies.
Thank you Cookie for many years of service. Hope all goes well with you in your continued career.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
What team are you referring to here?
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Nov 6, 2011 4:01 PM MST up reply actions
Sure I'd trade Wiggy to Taiwan for one from colume A one from colume B and two choices from colume c
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Wiggy to Taiwan for a Panda Express franchise on the Coors concourse?
Think about how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! --George Carlin
I dont care as long as he isnt on the Rockies.
Thank you Cookie for many years of service. Hope all goes well with you in your continued career.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
Wigginton
Highly doubtful the Rays would take Wiggy back. Since he was there in ‘06-’07. They’ve got their ‘Jack of all trades’ in Zobrist.
Wigginton has been very likely to return to the Rockies at the start of 2012.
I think our best hope for trading him is a mid-season salary dump next year.
I'm not sure if I even want to trade him right now
With the prospects of getting a better 3B than him slim, He is probably the best bet at that position.
I'd rather platoon Pacheco and Stewart
Than play Wigginton.
Jason Giambi for player-manager in 2012!
How the world will end in 2012: George of the Roses builds a Machine that Pommels everyone with La Violencia during Whiteouts.
I don't think you could even pick those guys up mkorpal
let a lone throw them
/I actually do get what you’re saying and I kind of agree with it
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
IF we trade away Wigginton, it's almost certainly going to be a deal designed specifically to offload him.
He provides basically no value to any trade package spawned from other machinations.
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Nov 6, 2011 6:14 PM MST up reply actions
it'd probably be better
to wait for an injury on another team in the season and deal him to a desperate contender hopeful…
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
what is really the appeal of wade davis
like yeah he’s young, but my god is he terrible
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
180 IP of better-than-Kevin-Millwood production?
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
that'd be nice, sure
but to set our sights as low as wade “4.83 SIERA” davis as a serious and desirable target is only setting us up for failure.
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
millwood put up margin-of-error WAR compared to davis in 1/3 the innings load
SIERA an entire run lower, xFIP a run and a third lower
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
getting out of that division will help.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Nov 6, 2011 5:37 PM MST up reply actions
Yeah; nobody can hit the ball in the NL worst!
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
i thought headley was in the NL worst?
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
sarcasm?
i think the sarcasm was quite obvoius there. anyways, davis is an interesting name. there are better options sure, but it’s intriguing.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Nov 6, 2011 5:40 PM MST up reply actions
i just dislike the implying that he's anything other than bottom of the barrel
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
why the hate?
dude is young, very cheap, cost-controlled for many years, has pitched in AL East and put up OK numbers, and was a top prospect coming through that system for a reason. Like I said, intriguing. Not bottom of barrel.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Nov 6, 2011 5:44 PM MST up reply actions
Aren't I allowed some levity?
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
No. It's Crestfallen Season. No humour allowed.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
No it's Hot stove season where Annneeeething can happenincluding hell freezing over.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
I guess he's young
and is still develop-able. There’s definitely some upside in there somewhere but considering how we’ve been saying ‘If Stewart/CDI/Fowler/Esmil/Whoever really puts it together this season’ for the past couple of years, I’m not sure how much I’m into acquiring a guy who requires the same logic…
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
I don't know what the pitching equivalent of Stewart's 2011 might be ...
But whatever it is, a winning record, 180 innings, and a 4.5 ERA in the AL East sure as heck isn’t it. This is a big, strong, ox of a pitcher, who was a top five prospect in all of baseball a couple years ago. I absolutely think he’s worth CDI, or Rosario. He’d be a very solid addition, and would allow us to be more aggressive on the hitting side with our $$.
by BostonTransplant on Nov 6, 2011 9:05 PM MST up reply actions
hey remember when Stewart was a top prospect? Wade Davis isn’t a bad acquisition but he’s not such a big fix to our problems. He’s an extreme flyball guy who struck out batters less often in 2011 than he did in 2010. I wouldn’t want to overpay for him and if we acquired him I’d really be hoping it’s because Apodaca watched some film and has a good plan to improve his game – whether that be mechanics or learning a new pitch or whatever.
My ultimate point was that we still have a ton of uncertainty on the roster because nothing has really changed and adding Davis adds more uncertainty. He could blossom into an awesome pitcher…or we could be giving away Iannetta for someone giving us a ‘Jason Hammel’ caliber performance – again, thats not totally bad but it’s not turning this team around either. I would prefer to gamble elsewhere…
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
OT: On my wat to the Aves game.
Woo hockey.
I thought 2011 sucked pretty bad. I have nothing to add to that.
by prettyinpurple on Nov 6, 2011 5:24 PM MST via mobile reply actions
Just don't catch a puck with your teeth!
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Heh, our seats aren't good enough.
I thought 2011 sucked pretty bad. I have nothing to add to that.
by prettyinpurple on Nov 6, 2011 5:29 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
It's when your not expecting the puck is when it finds you.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Woo hoo
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Too bad you don't have Hockey in Sand Dog.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Not true. We have the San Diego Gulls
that play up in Escondido….minor league hockey.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
LOL. Charlie Blackmon is a man after my own heart:
I’m trying this whole eating healthy thing. It stinks and it’s overrated. And it’s way harder to cook food than order Arby’s.
Didn't he work with Tulo last year?
If he did, didn’t he learn anything?
/I like Arby’s quite a bit
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
arenado and wheeler
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 7, 2011 7:24 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
Pavano...
Gave up the most hits in the majors this past season. Not sure how that’ll turn out at Coors.
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