Tuesday Rockpile: Nolan Arenado and the AFL - What Does it Mean?
Nolan Arenado is no secret in these parts. Following strong seasons in the Pioneer League (Rookie, 2009), South Atlantic League (A, 2010), and California League (Hi-A, 2011), the 20-year-old third baseman got an invite to the Arizona Fall League, populated by top prospects and "guys" from all organizations, mostly from AA. There, as one of the youngest players in the league, Arenado has caught fire and performed among the best of the hitters in the AFL, even hitting cleanup in the AFL Rising Stars game - in a lineup with Bryce Harper and Mike Trout.
His performance has generated a nearly daily "Arenado Watch" here on Purple Row. He furthered his batting line yesterday, reaching base three times and driving in two more runs. Arenado now leads the AFL in RBI (32), is second in batting average (.404), 4th in OPS (1.111), 5th in home runs (5th), 4th in slugging percentage (.688), 1st in hits (38), and 1st in total bases (68).
One could understand getting fans getting excited about the guy. First, to temper your expectations, there are several reasons to not write him in as an impact player soon. While the level of competition is much higher than the Cal League, the AFL doesn't have the top tier pitching prospects to match the hitters. The Rockies kept deserving candidates Chad Bettis and Drew Pomeranz out due to workload, and other organizations did the same.
Additionally, the Arizona Fall League is in...Arizona. The dry air and elevation inflate offensive numbers, and a line drive contact hitter will take advantage of that as much as anyone. Arenado is currently sitting on 94 at bats in the AFL as well, which is approximately 1/7th of a full MLB season. We are still talking a small sample.
But .404 is .404. And the AFL is really an extension of 2.5 strong minor league seasons. We can be excited. The kid is ridiculously talented. It's not like we are saying he's going to be better than Bryce Harper, BestProspectintheUniverse. It's not like we are comparing him to Albert Pujols, BestPlayerintheUniverse. I mean, what would you do if someone said something like that? What if it was someone with name recognition?
Nolan Arenado had one of the best 0-for-4s I've seen in a showcase event (the Rising Stars Game). On top of demonstrating that he has made big strides on defense at third, he made some loud contact and showed an exceptional approach at the plate. Arenado has an uncanny knack for getting his hands through the ball. I see some Pujols in him. I really do. If Arenado doesn't wind up being a well-above-average MLB hitter, I'll be surprised. Throw in potential average or better defense at third base and you have one of the top prospects in baseball. It wouldn't shock me if he ends up having a better career than (Bryce) Harper, not in the slightest.
Pujols? Harper? WOW. Those comments were made by Adam Foster of Project Prospect. While not totally in the prestige of Keith Law (ESPN), Jim Callis/John Manuel (Baseball America), Kevin Goldstein (Baseball Prospectus), he isn't without resume. He has written for Baseball America, ESPN, Scout.com, and MiLB.com. This week, he compared his 2007 Top 100 prospect list and 2008 Top 100 prospect list to BA/BP/ESPN and came out pretty favorably.
I watched the Rising Stars Game. Foster is a bit generous in his definition of "loud contact" from Arenado. He did have a solid line drive up the middle with the sacks full snared by the shortstop, but his other at-bats resulted in weak ground balls to second base and a lazy fly ball to right field. He did make solid contact on foul balls, made contact on every swing and didn't swing at any pitches out of the zone. He wasn't tested defensively but converted every routine play. Go ahead, continue your crush on Arenado. Even you never thought to compare him to Pujols/Harper.
Summary of other Winter League players after the jump.
Winter League Watch
- Tim Wheeler (OF) is hitting just .231 with a .731 OPS and just two home runs as the Rockies "Priority Player" in the AFL. After being the only 30 HR / 20 SB player in minor league baseball, Wheeler really appears to be running on fumes, both statistically and with my eyes. He did finish the AA season on a slow note, so exhaustion from the 636 PA in the Texas League wouldn't be surprising. While it is likely the AFL is exposing some issues with his swing, there is little we can deduce from his AFL campaign. I almost expected a flat showing from Wheeler after how he finished with the Drillers.
- Ben Paulsen (1B) was a Texas League All-Star and AFL Rising Star, but that doesn't mean he has hit well. After hitting just .241/.295/.413 in AA Tulsa, he is now sitting at .247/.321/.315 in the AFL despite a nice spurt of late. In contrast to Wheeler, many scouts don't see Paulsen translating to the big league level, so his AFL showing certainly looks like further proof of that.
- Rob Scahill, my favorite under the radar Rockies' prospect, has pitched very well in the AFL. He has allowed one run in seven innings, striking out eight and walking two. In the Rising Stars Game, he worked a perfect inning in relief, including being the only pitcher to retire Game MVP Nick Franklin. He reached 96mph and showed a good slider.
- Joe Gardner has cooled after his exceptional start to the AFL. He has struck out 14 in 12 innings of work, but he also has walked 8 and allowed six runs. He has been scored upon in three of his last four outings. His arm slot has made accuracy a concern with him, but his stuff (mid-90's with tremendous sink) is fantastic when he finds the zone.
- Parker Frazier has been roughed up in the AFL. In 16 innings of work, Frazier has allowed 12 runs on 23 hits. The right-hander was in A-ball last season, so the battering isn't especially surprising in Arizona.
- Casey Weathers fired a high-90's fastball off Kansas City's Christian Colon's hand in the Rising Stars game and exited one batter later after getting an out. He has allowed four runs in eight innings while striking out ten...but as usual, walking eight.
- Wilin Rosario is playing in a Dominican Winter League now, a league also populated by the likes of Brandon Belt, Brett Wallace, Brian Bogucevic and Brandon Allen. Through 60 at-bats, Rosario is currently 2nd in the league in home runs (5), 1st in RBI (22, six ahead of the next hitter), 3rd in slugging percentage (.633), and 4th in OPS (.961).
- Eric Young Jr. is also now playing in the Dominican League starting this week, playing for the Braves, a team managed by Don Baylor.
Links
Rockies eye starting pitching through trade, free agency - The Denver Post There isn't anything new here, although Bruce Chen is brought up as a new name by Renck.
Troy Tulowitzki, Rafael Betancourt named top Rockies by MLB.com | ColoradoRockies.com: News - Troy Tulowitzki was awarded by MLB.com as the Rockies best hitter, Betancourt as the Rockies best pitcher, and Dexter Fowler as the team's breakout player. Fowler's award is amusing given his remarkable struggles midseason.
Which Melky Cabrera Will San Francisco Get? | FanGraphs Baseball The Giants traded Jonathan Sanchez for Melky Cabrera. My initial thought is that Cabrera's 2011 was a bit of a mirage and San Francisco got the wrong end of this deal. They sold low and bought high. Here is Jack Moore's take.
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Nice piece on Arenado on BA
Good piece about Arenado on Baseball America’s site. Kid looks really committed now from what I read, and he should be the starting 3B come ’13, if everything holds true.
I was just about to mention this piece as well
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
1300 words, mostly on prospects, and I forgot to check BA
Oops. Good article, even if all of it has been covered previously in pieces.
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 8, 2011 8:34 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
I understand all of the excitement revolving around Nolan
But we really do need to temper our expectations and see how he does in ST… if you want proof, just take a look at this article from almost a year ago to the day.
Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 8, 2011 12:37 PM MST up reply actions
This isn't to say I'm not excited about him, because I am
I just don’t think we should be too eager to throw him into the deep end or set him up for failure by rushing him to the bigs
Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 8, 2011 12:40 PM MST up reply actions
Belt killed spring training too, but Belt was 2 years older than Arenado
Not saying Arenado will be ready next year but I predict a .330 BA in Tulsa next year
~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~
.330 might be a bit strong
He’s been at .300, .308 and .298 so far in his three stops. .330 would be quite a tasty breakout
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 8, 2011 1:20 PM MST up reply actions
I see his improving approach paying off big time
Maybe .330 is high but .320 is the lowest I go, especially moving to the texas league. Make mine .320/.370/.540 with 25 HR 110RBI if he starts the season in Tulsa.
~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~
I absolutely agree that he should be evaluated after ST
No way he should be given the job outright at his age & experience level.
What should be done is something like this, which I admit is old-fashioned, but then I’m kind of old-fashioned when it comes to baseball:
Stewart & Arenado are the only 2 real in-house options for 3B. Nelson’s not a major-league 3B, and neither is Wiggy for anything other than spot duty.
Stew & Arenado should be told: The 3B job is open. “You’re going to get approx. equal playing time in ST. Best player gets the job on Opening Day.” Best meaning, who will help the 2012 Rockies win the most games, not whose career development might be optimized for 2013, 2014 or some future year when the Rockies finally decide to get serious about winning the division.
If there’s a solid rotation in place, a quality 2B on the roster, then maybe. Maybe. But Arenado would have to have a nuclear spring training to even force the issue right now.
There’s a reason there are levels in the minors. You have to prove at one level before being promoted. Asking a 21 year old kid to be a starting third baseman and impact player in the lineup straight out of camp is a very tall order.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
I see some Pujols in him. I really do
Can you say best left side of the infield in baseball? If that quote is even remotely true, we are well on our way – And it would be in place for the better part of a decade too.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 8, 2011 8:31 AM MST reply actions
I'm trying really hard to not get my hopes up.
Pieces like these don’t make it possible.
Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
Since it is Nolan Arenado Day
here’s a video of his first career walkoff HR!
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
That field looks a lot bigger in your video than it does in real life
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 8, 2011 8:53 AM MST up reply actions
I'm pointing towards the deepest part of the park
but yeah, it’s not big at all.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
8th inning, but it was the second half of a doubleheader so only 7 innings were scheduled
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
That's what it looked like in the vid.
Just making sure.
Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
That "GO" voice is the creepiest thing
"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"
/it is a new beginning, right?
by The Lodo Magic Man on Nov 8, 2011 9:21 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
I was just going to say
It’s like some kind of sad robot – it reminded me of HAL dying
Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 8, 2011 9:29 AM MST up reply actions
Too bad the right side of the infield looks to be in shambles in the future…
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Not if you see Rutledge as a 2B
~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~
I should say near future
Rutledge is still a maybe, as are Story and Herrera (who are very far away). Kyle Parker is our big 1B candidate?
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
I can't see them just jamming Parker in there
There’ll be a merry-go-round of veteran 1B bats for the several years following Helton’s retirement
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by Andrew Martin on Nov 8, 2011 9:29 AM MST up reply actions
Because he's not good enough?
Or because he’s not gonna be old enough?
Or because you think he’ll stick in the outfield?
I don't see Parker making it to the Majors, personally.
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by Andrew Martin on Nov 8, 2011 5:26 PM MST up reply actions
I think we should trade him
ASAP while his value is kind of high. He could be good – he was developmentally behind due to football but I don’t feel like dealing with the risk…
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
That's tough to say after one year, isn't it?
I mean, Parker had a better OPS this year at age 21 than Matt Holliday did at age 21 in A-ball, and that was Holliday’s 4th year in the minors.
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 8, 2011 7:49 PM MST up reply actions
Holliday was such a late bloomer though
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 8, 2011 7:51 PM MST up reply actions
Well sure he was
but he was also one of those who was always considered a prospect due to his tools, specifically his power, and like Parker, he was also drafted when he was more focused on football. I’m not saying he’s the next Holliday, but I really don’t think he can be written off after one year. It was his first year focusing on baseball. He hasn’t had an offseason to focus on baseball yet, and he went into the year after having broken ribs a few months before.
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 8, 2011 9:16 PM MST up reply actions
Don't disagree
I’m actually very pleased with the year Parker had. It’s just that comparing Holliday to almost anyone at that age is going to make the current prospect look good.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 8, 2011 9:33 PM MST up reply actions
Sure
It’s just that the comparison isn’t a blind one. I could compare Corey Dickerson to Matt Holliday, but that wouldn’t be a valid comparison. The Holliday/Parker comp is due to a number of other reasons – body type, power, quarterback, strong but not graceful, etc.
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 8, 2011 9:46 PM MST up reply actions
Yeah, this.
I’m really surprised to see anyone writing him off after his first year, or advocating that we have to trade him (not that he’s off limits).
I can understand him being pegged as a trade high candidate
Not many liked him as a 1st rounder, and for most 1st rounders, that’s the peak of their prestige/value. So I see why when looking at the farm of “sell high” candidates that he might be one. It’s just way too early to know what we have.
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 8, 2011 9:18 PM MST up reply actions
Parker could be good
I think another argument though is that given his developmental lag and his numbers, he’s probably 3 years away. I’d rather trade him while his value is high to get something now that will help us while Tulo and Cargo are in their primes and the rotation matures.
Given where we are I’d rather lose Parker in a package for a contributor now than someone like Iannetta in a trade when he’s already giving us like 3 WAR a season…
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
There are two potential HOF 1B on the market this year alone
Last year you could have signed Berkman or traded for Napoli, Morse, or Billy Butler for relatively little cost. If we had to have a 1B tomorrow I would be okay signing Derek Lee or Carlos Pena, if we can fill in the gaping holes at 2B and 3B internally signing or trading for effective help at 1B is probably the easiest path to take.
~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~
God I would have loved to have Billy Butler
Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 8, 2011 9:35 AM MST up reply actions
He will likely be available still
if they think he can play a passable 1B he and Arenado would give us some RH line drive doubles love
~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~
Indeed
I’m looking back at the past two seasons and thinking about how nice it would be to have a 1B that isn’t nearing (or over) 40 who’s name isn’t Ty Wigginton.
Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 8, 2011 9:48 AM MST up reply actions
Untill Todd coughs up 1B we will need someone who can play more than
just 1B, with Giambi on the roster we can’t afford another 1B/DH type around
~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~
I agree...
As much as I love the Giambino, I wish we hadn’t picked up his option – right now our 1b platoon is 2 left handed geezers… and Wiggy.
Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 8, 2011 10:05 AM MST up reply actions
In multiple countries!
Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 8, 2011 11:41 AM MST up reply actions
Where he would score 10's and still lose.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
We do.
Jordan Pacheco.
Altar Boy in the Church of Santo Ubaldo
"...buffalo chicken is a fine anti-depressant, after all." -UZ
"... One order of buffalo wings, please..." -Yokel, after July 30, 2011
But we didn't have him in '10 or for most of '11
Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 8, 2011 11:38 AM MST up reply actions
I read that they believe Hosmer and Butler are their 3 and 4 hitters of the future so I don’t think they are looking to deal Butler anymore
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Nov 8, 2011 10:04 AM MST up reply actions
Fair enough but give their youth movement a little more time
If one of their MiLB RF or 1B start tearing it up Butler becomes really expendable really quick. If Will Myers and Mike Moustakas become the top tier hitters they project as, and Alcides/Cain do not pan out any of our young SS or CF might start looking really attractive.
~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~
I think this is a good point
while it wouldn’t surprise me if we ended up with a merry go round at 1b once Helton retires, 1b can be pretty easy to get decent if not better production out of. Of course decent production and merry go round aren’t mutually exclusive….
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
At least there are a lot of good hitting 1B guys out there that we might be able to land once Helton retires
I think it’s much harder to fill SS, 3B, and 2B – And we might be set at two of those for years to come.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 8, 2011 9:32 AM MST up reply actions
It just fills like paddling in a leaky canoe sometimes
plug one hole and bail out the boat until something else comes along. But by then, you have other holes.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Smith, Dex, Wheeler, Blackmon, Mathes, and Parker means with Cargo the OF is probably
covered for a while, If Arenado, Rosario, and Rutledge can be average to slightly above average by 2014, and Tulo can stay healthy that would fill every position on the field cost controlled. That would also mean a 22 YO Rosell Herrera and Trever Story will be in AA/AAA with an eye on making the 25 man. 1B is one position where there is always a surplus of talent as every bat that can’t stick elsewhere gets a look there.
~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~
we could see Matthes make a cameo next season, if he stays healthy
that thought never occurred to me before.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
if he and rutledge can build on their success this year
I could live with a Mathes/WheelerRF/LF platoon in 2013 with Rutledge getting a shot at 2B in ST. Imagine a RH bench bat with actual power(not that EY2, Spilly, Nelson and Wiggy don’t strike fear into LHP everywhere)
~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~
Perceived value
I say use the perceived value of guys like Wheeler, Parker, and Tago (basically anyone not named Pomeranz, Rosario, Bettis, or Arenado) to go get a piece that is going to help us NOW. Quit trying to amass the farm system with the most depth and use some of it. This is the problem I had with the Dave Krieger article from the other day.
I agree with this
I’m excited about having what seems to be a pretty well stocked farm system, but we need to hedge the risk of some of these guys not working out by trading for impact talent that will make us competitive in 2012-2014.
Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 8, 2011 11:40 AM MST up reply actions
Prospects are overrated
just like NFL draft picks
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Nov 8, 2011 2:20 PM MST up reply actions
Well the advantage of the prospects in baseball
Is the youth and the cost control – however, oftentimes it seems like we’re getting what we’re paying for.
Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 8, 2011 2:37 PM MST up reply actions
What kind of player do you imagine we get back for those three?
~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~
Maybe they should let Arenado
carry that confidence into spring training with the full opportunity to earn the Starting 3B job. I know its not likely because he has not touched AA, but hey never underestimate confidence in sports.
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Nov 8, 2011 8:41 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
I still think best case scenaro for this season is he tears up AA all summer -
The Rockies stay in contention, and then he’s called up in August/September and is part of a late season run to October.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 8, 2011 8:48 AM MST up reply actions
And if Rockies aren't in contention, like in 2011
because they didn’t put their best team on the field,
what does that say about the “internal change in culture” O’Dowd has been talking about.
Best player at the end of ST should get the job, whether it’s a recycled old geezer who’s gotten healthy, Stewart who’s been resurrected, or a 21 year old who’s skipped AA and AAA.
Neat article on one of the earliest advanced stats writers,
Bryan Johnson of the Toronto Globe.
It’s amazing (to me) that someone was writing about the precursor to WAR and mocking Eckstein-esque intangibles in 1983.
Must have been a Bill James reader
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 8, 2011 9:00 AM MST up reply actions
That's what I thought too
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
Nolan has certainly changed my mindset about 3B...
I say we ride out most of 2012 with some sort of Stewie/Wiggy (If we can’t move him – and I’m not sure who would take him.)/Pacheco mashup at 3rd. Maybe call Arenado up in September if he does to Tulsa what he’s done to Salt River. If we need to go and get somebody via trade or free agency, do it at 2nd base where no one seems to be emerging as a prospect.
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
by Since1993 on Nov 8, 2011 9:03 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
Wiggy isn't useless just redundant
if there is a taker for the desicated corpse of Vernon Wells I can’t imagine that there isn’t someone who would take Old Pacheco off of our hands.
~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~
That's always possible.
And I’d trade him in a heartbeat – even for my old favourite – a bucket of chicken.
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
OOTP Folks.
I posted some quick update notes in the Draft Order thread comments.
You can check out the rosters on the league reports website. That information is in the comment.
Arenado and Nicasio
In a weird way, the two are very similar right now. All the news is good; far better than anyone could rightly hope, really. We fans have great reason to be optimistic. And yet, until they take the field in a big league park and play half a season’s worth of games we really don’t know how they’ll be.
I love all the news about Arenado, but he’s still a high A/AFL level prospect. I’d really hate to bring down a ceiling that looks so high at this point by rushing him through the minors. I’d love to see him at Coors in September though. It all still points to a 2012 that’s a rebuilding year unless the team catches some lucky breaks.
"The game of baseball is made up of many little things. If we do all the little things right, then we'll never have a big thing to worry about" -- Cal Ripken, Sr.
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #3
I am fine with 2012 being a could break either way if it means
we get to see Arenado in pinstripes. I would also like to point out how successful we have been in the draft for the last 3 or so years our top ten pick this year could easily be the guy who puts us of over the top.
~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~
Anyone else see the resemblance? It's uncanny...
Like Senna came back from the dead to just screw around on a baseball diamond.

by Purple Row Troll on Nov 8, 2011 11:26 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
Sorry, but I don't see it.
The first guy has a square jaw, prominent features…….different nose.
Actually the first guy reminds me of James Franco.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
I definitely see it
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 8, 2011 11:37 AM MST up reply actions
Yeah...sorta in the eyes.
Senna was amazing. I fear we’ll never witness the like of Senna v. Prost ever again.
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
So the whole time they were raking CU over the coals this crap was being ignored?
~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~
Out with the whole lot of them
After TWO reported on-premises episodes, the university’s response was to ban Sandusky FROM BRINGING ANY MORE BOYS to the stadium? Rather than banning him totally and going straight to the police?
Cover up, cover up, cover up. And Paterno was part of it. He fulfilled his legal oblgation by reporting the first incident to the AD? So what did he do to follow-up and be sure the police were informed?
Everyone involved at PSU should be cleared out.
So wierd and so outside of what I would do that I can't even comprehend
~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~
Thank you for that
I’d like to believe that the majority of people would help immediately…like walk in and bust the bastard in the face and call the police immediately. No thoughts to their jobs or who it was…just helping an innocent child. But, after working with abused kids for years ,I’m not so sure anymore. This whole thing sickens me !
In all things, it is better to hope than despair.
The fear of the unknown holds us all back on some level
you are right the need to minimize or justify the actions of those we like or fear is a powerful urge. That said this guy would have been in the hospital if I walked in on something liek that.
~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~
Yeah, this is the prime reason I have turned my back on the church...
not because priests we’re guilty of abusing children but because the leadership was so complicit in protecting the abusers. Tends to shake one’s faith.
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
were.
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
Sad, I went to a church school and knew the priests really well
I can’t imagine how sad it would make me to here any of those guys had done anything like that. Try to remember that that an idea or belief stands alone, seperated from those who espouse it or co-opt it to their own ends.
~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~
Burn that school to the ground and salt the earth.
Penn State should no longer have an NCAA football program, and should be barred from any other athletic programs for a minimum of 5 years
"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"
/it is a new beginning, right?
by The Lodo Magic Man on Nov 8, 2011 2:16 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Clear out all the leadership and replace them.
But for me, this would just be punishing the student athletes (and the student body at large), none of whom had anything to do with this. From what I’ve heard, many of them are just as disgusted as anyone else.
So I'm going through some of the Spring threads and all the comments about how awesome Ubaldo was going to be this season are tough to read
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 8, 2011 12:19 PM MST reply actions
Wow why would you subject yourself to that?!
Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 8, 2011 12:34 PM MST up reply actions
Toddfather's Goatee meet RIRF :)
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
by SDcat09 on Nov 8, 2011 12:38 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
haha fair enough
Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 8, 2011 12:46 PM MST up reply actions
I'm putting together the Spring edition of the Purple Row comment awards since people seemed to like the one for the summer
The idea is to get Rowbots to vote on the best comment from each season and then we can vote on comment of the year at the end of December.
The sad thing is that many of the double green comments from early Arpil had to do with Ubaldo but I can’t nominate them because they are just too sad now and wouldn’t have a chance to win.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 8, 2011 12:44 PM MST up reply actions
Seriously
Check out this quote from Franchise26 after the opening day loss.
Pitching naked – a baseball term for when you just don’t have anything, no matter how hard you try and discover it throughout your outing. Jimenez didn’t have dick today, but it’s one outing. I’ll worry if that fastball’s not up a few ticks next time out, because his velo was reportedly fine in his last spring training outing. Maybe he just couldn’t get loose and couldn’t really let it fly. Those things happen, even to the best in the game from time to time. We’re not going to have too many days this season where Ubaldo craps the bed like that, so I guess it’s best to get it out of the way on day one.
By the way, we lost our openers in 07 and 09, and won them in 08 and 10. So, you know, chill, pound the Budweiser, let’s get them tomorrow.
10 beautiful recs, but I can’t nominate it – If only we knew what was ahead.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 8, 2011 12:52 PM MST up reply actions
I see your dilemma. It is so amazing to see how things fell apart in such a short time.
In all things, it is better to hope than despair.
Another gem from a from page story.....(Even though it wasn't recced).....
Next to a picture of a Spring Training lineup that has the following….
1) Fowler – CF
2) Herrera – SS
3) Smith – RF
4) Giambi – 1B
5) Wigginton – LF
6) Stewart – 3B
7) Nelson – 2B
8) Pagnozzi – C
9) Chacin – P
….Andrew Martin calmly assures us that….
This is not anything even remotely resembling the everyday lineup
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 8, 2011 1:14 PM MST up reply actions
D'oh!
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
Somebody kill me.
Purple Row - For all of your Colorado Rockies-related needs
Learn about Batting Metrics
Learn about Pitching Metrics
by Andrew Martin on Nov 8, 2011 5:27 PM MST up reply actions
:-(
Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 8, 2011 12:47 PM MST up reply actions
Here's hoping he has an awesome 2012...as an Indian.
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
I really do hope so, I hope he knocks Verlander off the perch as the best AL pitcher
the better he does the more trade value our pitchers have. Too bad Brad Hawpe hasn’t done that for us.
~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~
Holliday has, but no one cares
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 8, 2011 1:52 PM MST up reply actions
St Louis Fans sure do and it is nice to have such a nice example out there
~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~
Unless his velocity somehow magically reappears, he will never again be the pitcher he was before this season
What made Ubaldo so good was that he could jam 100MPH fastballs down your throat inning after inning and if it was anywhere near the strikezone, batters were going to be overpowered by it. I can not stress this enough!!! – Hitter’s simply could not catch up to pre 2011 Ubaldo’s fastball. Jimenez’s ability to locate pitches on the other hand was never elite, he was just good enough at doing it so that hitters would have no chance against his heat coming in that fast with movement.
But as we all know, something happened this season, something that nobody has been able to explain. Ubaldo lost his overpowering fastball – And that’s all it took for our pitching titan to fall from grace.
At first I thought he was just not dialing it all the way up coming off the cuticle injury in April. But as start after start went by and his velo never returned, I had to shut my mouth as I slowly came to the realization that Ubaldo had lost his mojo and may have already seen his career peak. The Rockies, who know Ubaldo as well as anyone, probably realized this and are confident that he’s never going to get back to his old self again. So they got as much in return for him as they could well 2010 was still fresh in everyone’s mind.
The sad truth is that Ubaldo without that fastball is like a superhero in street clothes. There’s nothing that special about him. He’s now a guy who sits at 93/94 MPH and is mediocre at locating his pitches – And that’s far from being an ace. His status as one of the game’s best always had as much to do with the fact that he threw lightning bolts as it did with him being able to control his pitches. Take away that Zeus like gift and suddenly Ubaldo is the one shaking in fear at the sight of a good hitter stepping into the batter’s box instead of the other way around.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 8, 2011 2:29 PM MST up reply actions
Ouch, why would you put yourself through such pain?
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Nov 8, 2011 2:22 PM MST up reply actions
So, what do you all think?
The Mini-Plans aren’t out yet, but I’m guessing that my Outfield Box seats are going to be about $825 per seat for 25 games.
Season Tickets in the following sections are:
Lower RF Reserved: $640
Lower Reserve Corner: $640
Lower Reserved Outfield: $960
Pavilion: $1,120
RF Mezzanine: $1,120
Upper Reserve Infield: $1,200
RF Box: $1,280
There is no way that I can attend 81 games. That being said, if I could sell 50 tickets at $8 per ticket, it would cost me less to get a season ticket in one of the above sections.
My question is:
1) Are those sections any good compared to where I was sitting (Sec. 144, Row 14)?
2) Does anyone think I could actually sell that many tickets?
I was thinking about going in on some season tickets
With a couple friends/co-workers… but I think some of the fun of such a long season is the flexibility of going to whichever games I’d like (especially true because we have some of the lowest ticket prices in the league) – for example, buying tickets off stub hub the day before because Drew Pomeranz will be making his Rockies debut, or buying a green pack because a friend is in town, etc. The structure of sharing season tickets/buying a mini plan is a definite turn off to me – although perhaps someday that structure will be attractive to me.
Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 8, 2011 2:42 PM MST up reply actions
I just can’t go to that many games.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
I end up going to between 15-20 games when I have an income:-)
So splitting season tickets 4-5 ways would do it – and I’d probably save money doing it that way (and have “my own” seats)…
Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 8, 2011 2:47 PM MST up reply actions
You can build your own 25 game plan.
I’ll probably do that. I don’t want to go in on a plan because I don’t want to have to negotiate to get the games I want. I have two young children, so Sunday day games are very important to me.
If the build-your-own plan
Was a card with 25 punches on it, and you could just show up whenever you wanted, that would be AWESOME (for obvious logistical reasons, that would never work) – but you still have to pick your games before the season has even started, which is a turn off for me.
Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 8, 2011 3:04 PM MST up reply actions
Same here. I don't like to locked into a schedule that far ahead of time.
You can always find deals throughout the season.
Is it 2012 yet?
Exactly - the green packs are fantastic
And the King Soopers tickets are awesome.
Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 8, 2011 3:09 PM MST up reply actions
Also
I’d steer clear of any seats in the 3rd deck out in RF – you can’t see anything going on about 50 feet in front of the out of town scoreboard, depending on where you get put.
Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 8, 2011 2:44 PM MST up reply actions
I love the outfield box
And as an avid scorekeeper, the pavilion’s sorta obnoxious because the scoreboard is behind you, BUT you get a pretty good view of the field and it’s Tulo HR ball central.
Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 8, 2011 3:01 PM MST up reply actions
This is really where I'm torn.
The difference between 25 Outfield Box tickets x 3 and 81 Pavilion tickets x 3 is $885.
So, if I sell two seats for 56 games @ $8 per seat. I save money and get a ticket to any game plus the three tickets to 25 games that I would have had. I just don’t know what the difference in the section is like except that the scoreboard is behind you.
Not too much
You’re a little further from the action, but the difference certainly isn’t enough to justify the difference in price, IMO.
Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 8, 2011 3:15 PM MST up reply actions
The question for me is:
Can I actually sell that many Pavilion tickets at that price? If not, I’m out $800.
I'm looking at a mini plan myself
but I would only want one seat.
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
I would take
the others except day games during the week (but only one seat).
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
I'll send you an email when the plan details come out.
The guy sitting next to me last season also wanted to go in with me, but I want to go to all 25 if possible. So, you would be a better choice really. You could choose 12 games and come with me to Opening Day. I would take 12 Sundays that you couldn’t attend because I’d be with my family. Then I’d take friends to the other 12.
Of course, I still might think about season tickets. I’m going to call the Rockies tomorrow and see if I can roll a deposit for season tickets into a mimiplan if I change my mind. Anyway, if I got season tickets, I’d sell you anything that you wanted.
Sure
If not, at least let me know when mini game plans come out so if this doesn’t work out I could pick up my own.
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
It'd actually go a long way
to get me to buy season tickets in the Pavilion if I knew someone was going to buy 20 tickets. Then I’d only have to sell 36 of the remaining 223 to make the money even up. I think that that is doable.
So, that’s a possibility too. The benefit with going with me being that you could actually change days if you needed to.
I like both
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
I love Upper Reserve Infield
You can see the entire field, scoreboard, and even balls and strikes. If you can get section 331 or 330 its hard to beat imo.
So, it looks like the Phillies are locking up Ryan Madson to a four year deal
potentially with a fifth year vesting option.
For a relief pitcher, that is absolute madness.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
I hope
they sign him and Cuddyer and like 2 seasons from now, everyone on that team is like 34+
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
They already have $114mil committed to just 10 players in 2012.
You just know Madson is going to get a 4 year, $36mil deal…
Seriously, what is the limit to their payroll?
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
4 year, $44 mil
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
….deep breath….deep breath….
BAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAh
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
omg
11 per year. That’s sooooo [expletive] dumb. Like for reals.
In other news, the Blue Jays are seeking a closer in a trade. I wonder if they’d have interest in Street… and I wonder who we’d want from them…
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
Ruben Amaro, Jr says

Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
flags fly forever yo
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
hahahahahahaha
no reliever has signed a four-year deal since Scott Linebrink and Francisco Cordero four years ago.
those worked out so well.
"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"
/it is a new beginning, right?
by The Lodo Magic Man on Nov 8, 2011 6:34 PM MST up reply actions
Actually those didn't turn out too bad
They were overpaid but at least they were still pretty productive. This one could be MUCH, MUCH worse if Madson gets injured or becomes ineffective. Always a possibility with relievers who are often erratic from season to season.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 8, 2011 7:44 PM MST up reply actions
apparently with a vesting option for a 5th year based on number of games finished.
"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"
/it is a new beginning, right?
by The Lodo Magic Man on Nov 8, 2011 6:35 PM MST up reply actions
If this is true, the Phillies will have committed $125 mil next season to the following 11 players
25 year old ace starter Halladay
31 year old first baseman Howard (who will miss most of the season)
33 year old second baseman Utley
33 year old ace Lee
31 year old back end starter Blanton
31 year old center fielder Victorino
36 year old third baseman Polanco
33 year old catcher Ruiz
40 year old reliever Contreras
31 year old closer Madson
41 year old first baseman Thome
This doesn’t include arbitration cases for Cole Hamels or Hunter Pence, nor any other free agent signings.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
That's what you get for going out and buying your team.
Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 8, 2011 4:06 PM MST up reply actions
confirmed: 4 years, $44 mil
with a fifth vesting year worth $13 mil.
Yeesh.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
I want 25 year old ace start Halladay
where can i get one
Sharper Image
or Sky Mall
Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 8, 2011 4:17 PM MST up reply actions
dammit you guys
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
No fair
If in addition to all that talent, Doc doesn’t have to age, either.
by BostonTransplant on Nov 8, 2011 4:18 PM MST up reply actions
dammit you guys
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
The Phillies
need their own Street already
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
Ex-cellent. It's all working out perfectly ...
Now we just need Bell to re-sign in San Diego, and Papelbon to go somewhere, and we can dump Street on someone to clear up more room for a big move. Everyone’s just a pawn on Dan O’Dowd’s chessboard.
by BostonTransplant on Nov 8, 2011 4:20 PM MST reply actions
This was basically my first thought as well.
If this inflates the closer market as much as we’re speculating, Huston Street becomes even more valuable as a trade chip. And as I’ve argued before, he’s already at the top of that list.
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Nov 8, 2011 4:22 PM MST up reply actions
Bell, Papelbon, Nathan, Broxton, K-Rod, Lidge, Corder, Capps
There’s a TON of closer types on the market this offseason. I just don’t see it happening.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
I don't know if it will happen either.
I’m just applying the angle to what I would be pushing in that situation. I have no idea if such an idea is even being considered at this point.
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Nov 8, 2011 4:27 PM MST up reply actions
Street is about #12 on the "impact reliever" list
and at his price, I just don’t see enough desperate teams to make that happen.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
He's better than that
Not too many guys out there with his record of success closing games, in both leagues. And he’s not that old and doesn’t rely on a 100 mph fastball. If I don’t get Papelbon and I need a closer, I’m definitely calling the Rox.
by BostonTransplant on Nov 8, 2011 4:32 PM MST up reply actions
I'm probably underselling Street's value
but he’s certainly not first tier, and most teams cannot afford to have that much money tied up with relief pitchers.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
He had a bad year
And really not all THAT bad, but a bad year, granted. Relief pitcher performance comes and goes, we all know that. And he’s closed VERY successfully for several years in both leagues. Not saying he’s the greatest thing since Mariano, and there’s a reason I want to dump him, but I think I’ve got some material I can use to sell him to someone. And I wouldn’t be lying (much) either.
by BostonTransplant on Nov 8, 2011 4:38 PM MST up reply actions
Hey, how much did the Yankees pay for Soriano?
by BostonTransplant on Nov 8, 2011 4:43 PM MST up reply actions
Actually, he's better than Soriano
I mean, by the numbers. Soriano had one great year.
by BostonTransplant on Nov 8, 2011 4:46 PM MST up reply actions
The Yankees are outliers and should never be used as an example
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Can I see these numbers you're referring to?
Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 8, 2011 4:47 PM MST up reply actions
186 career saves is a pretty big number
And Soriano’s been around a lot longer (since 2002, which shocked me when I looked it up). He’s 32, and Street’s will only turn 29 next August.
by BostonTransplant on Nov 8, 2011 4:55 PM MST up reply actions
Right - forgive me.
I’ve had a long day at work and got Soriano and Rivera confused. Time to go home and eat something… derp.
Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 8, 2011 4:58 PM MST up reply actions
There are enough teams that play by the pocketbook that would be willing to say with a stone face that he's worth the closer's spot because of his salary, rather than the other way around.
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Nov 8, 2011 4:38 PM MST up reply actions
Just watch
Soon as Bell and Papelbon are gone, you’ll start seeing the rumors.
by BostonTransplant on Nov 8, 2011 4:40 PM MST up reply actions
Hmm ... did I bet you last time, over Millwood vs Lowe?
If not, you’re on. I think I win that easily, even if (especially if) he’s still on the Rox.
by BostonTransplant on Nov 8, 2011 4:45 PM MST up reply actions
Street?
If we don’t trade him I think he’ll def close for us (and he should). It’ll keep his trade value high if nothing else…
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
Aw, darn you.
I had a giant response typed out to another post, and then I clicked to reply here and lost it all.
If I wasn’t being clear, no team philosophy is so predictable as to say “oh, Houston would totally do this” or “Pittsburgh plays this way”. It’s not about identifying x, y and z teams so much as it is about identifying the trends. We don’t even NEED to sell Street as a closer. But I feel confident in the assessment that a team with a weak bullpen could accept the 7 million dollar man as closer material regardless.
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Nov 8, 2011 4:42 PM MST up reply actions
I do.
In fact, I see him closing for the Rockies next year if he stays.
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Nov 8, 2011 4:46 PM MST up reply actions
It depends on what you're expecting.
I would be considering eating some of that money. This isn’t so much about freeing up room for another impact player as it is loosening the noose.
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"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Nov 8, 2011 4:34 PM MST up reply actions
I just got back from the mall,
where I saw a Street purple jersey. It made me happy and sad all at the same time. Like he’s already gone or somthin’.
I thought 2011 sucked pretty bad. I have nothing to add to that.
by prettyinpurple on Nov 8, 2011 4:39 PM MST up reply actions
He's my favorite Rockies pitcher
but he’s just not worth the money we are paying him.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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Yep, exactly.
You gotta do whacha gotta do.
I thought 2011 sucked pretty bad. I have nothing to add to that.
by prettyinpurple on Nov 8, 2011 4:42 PM MST up reply actions
He's definitely among my favorites too. So is Esmil Rogers.
With those two plus my advocacy for trading Brad Hawpe before 2010, I feel like I’m turning on all of my favorites. But that’s the business. At least I have Charlie Blackmon to advocate for.
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Nov 8, 2011 4:43 PM MST up reply actions
I've used the word advocate far too many times today.
Bad omen for the GRE.
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Nov 8, 2011 4:44 PM MST up reply actions
What grad school are you looking to get into?
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
blue jays might be into Street
only because he’ll be a type A and they love that stuff.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
Only Bell and Paps are significantly better options than Street though
Nathan and Broxton are huge injury risks. K-Rod’s not a closer anymore (although he may think he is), and Huston’s just flat better than Lidge, Cordero, and Capps at this point. And Street’s basically a free agent at this point … we wouldn’t be asking for the moon, or much of anything, in return other than paying his salary.
by BostonTransplant on Nov 8, 2011 4:30 PM MST up reply actions
All we ask is that you take Street's salary (and Wiggy too)
Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 8, 2011 4:32 PM MST up reply actions
Keep in mind that we have to take into account subjective perception, whether we want to or not.
Street may be capable of having better seasons than those players, and I’d throw Broxton there too, but Street’s stock isn’t that high right now. I argue that it’s high enough to negotiate a worthwhile trade, but Muzia’s ranking of him on an “impact reliever” list is not unreasonable when taking into account that this is not how he’s thought of right now.
That said, I remain an advocate that he should be our #1 trade priority right now.
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Nov 8, 2011 4:37 PM MST up reply actions
I just think it's so hard to predict relief performance
Guys who are cheap and young and good are impossible to get. So if you’re trying to build a bullpen you have to bet on a veteran or two somehow. All I’m saying is Street’s not a half bad bet, given his pitch profile (not a fireballer) and his background. I wouldn’t mind picking up a couple million of his salary to make it happen, as well.
by BostonTransplant on Nov 8, 2011 4:43 PM MST up reply actions
And I absolutely agree he's not half bad.
I’m just trying keep my desire to see him traded in check. He’s by far the most valuable trade asset from the projected 25 man roster. That doesn’t mean it’s as simple as a phone call or six. We have to work at it too.
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Nov 8, 2011 4:45 PM MST up reply actions
I dunno about the "most valuable" part
I think we could get a fair bit more by trading Dexter than Street. But everything else I agree with.
by BostonTransplant on Nov 8, 2011 4:48 PM MST up reply actions
By "most valuable", I am referring to the value placed not just on income, but on other factors.
We could “get more” for lots of players. None of them would be freeing up a potential 7 million on the payroll. Even if we had to eat a third of the contract, it would be more beneficial.
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Nov 8, 2011 4:50 PM MST up reply actions
I'm still torn
between trading him and keeping him for picks. If it’s necessary to trade him to free up money to make other moves then that’s one thing. But trading just Street? I feel like there wouldn’t be much of a return for him…
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
Dear Red Sox:
Since you don’t want anybody around to remind you of what happened last year – we will trade you Huston Street for Youk and Crawford. You can eat their salaries. Thank you!
Goodbye 2011, hello uncertainty about 2012...
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Nov 8, 2011 4:24 PM MST up reply actions
OT: Heavy D has died.
http://entertainment.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/11/08/8704886-rapper-heavy-d-dead-at-44
Hopefully, he found love and figured out what to do with it.
So Silverblood is no longer listed as one of the writers at the bottom of the page
I know she has not been around here much for a while now but it seems rather odd not to see her down there.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 8, 2011 5:52 PM MST reply actions
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
I was wondering when that was going to happen
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
JFK's Quote of the Day:
“Whether your name is (Lou) Gehrig or (Cal) Ripken, (Joe) DiMaggio or (Jackie) Robinson, or that of some youngster who picks up his bat or puts on his glove, you are challenged by the game of baseball to do your very best day in and day out. That’s all I’ve ever tried to do.” ~Cal Ripken Jr.
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
Christmas came early
The Rockies are interested in Kevin Millwood, Rich Harden and Bruce Chen
That second name on that list is the name of victory.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
If it happens
I won’t know what to say to you. I might laugh because you were the only one (maybe squeaky?) who has pushed for him consistently. Would be good if he can eat innings though.
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
If THOSE are the starting pitchers we're looking at
Just let Hammel and Rogers start
Jason Giambi for player-manager in 2012!
How the world will end in 2012: George of the Roses builds a Machine that Pommels everyone with La Violencia during Whiteouts.
Hello Rowbots
Has there been any discussion out there about This guy?
Color me intrigued
Supporting efforts to create a genetic splice of Jonathan Herrera and Troy Tulowitzki since 2011.
The NewNugs 2011 - Officially back on the Bandwagon
I <3 Johnson
This article was discussed
yesterday and it even made it as a FP fanshot.
On another note: Yes very, very intriguing.
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
Sure
As usual, it’s fun to think of the Rockies as being a possibility. But, it’s almost certain not to happen.
Too rich?
Also, why is it he doesn’t have to go into the draft?
Supporting efforts to create a genetic splice of Jonathan Herrera and Troy Tulowitzki since 2011.
The NewNugs 2011 - Officially back on the Bandwagon
I <3 Johnson
by SurfaceThought on Nov 8, 2011 10:22 PM MST up reply actions
Draft is for U.S. Players only
For international free agents, it varies.
As for why he wont be a Rockie, because the other 29 teams are also interested. When was the last time we actually participated in a bidding war?


































