Thursday Rockpile: Chris Iannetta, Rockies, 2006 to 2011, goes to the Magic Kingdom.
The Chris Iannetta trade/Ramon Hernandez signing will unfold in two acts
The cast of characters:
Tyler Chatwood
21 years old, but he'll be 21 years old for a long time. Yes, Chatwood is apparently a vampire. He's not going to age or mature beyond the sparkling mid-90's control plagued pitcher he is right now. Five years from now when this telenovela has about run its course as a franchise and the Rockies start to wonder, he'll disappear from the face of the earth for awhile but a year or two later somebody that looks remarkably like him will enter the draft and will do this thing all over again.
Chris Dreamy Iannetta
The martyr, he's a bit of a saint for his ability to hit for an extremely low average but still miraculously get on base anyway. Iannetta's a polarizing figure, different people see different things in the catcher, and so it stands to reason that he would be traded for a younger player that seems about as polarizing. Iannetta has long been freed of his mortal bonds with the cruelly oppressive team that brought him up.
Ramon Hernandez
The dashing villain? He's old, the question is why Angels wouldn't want him around. I mean, if they could sign him for less than it costs to acquire Iannetta, and if they can keep Chatwood in the process, why not? Well, because Hernandez is clearly a hellbound soul and has no place among Angels. No. Let's just be clear that Hernandez is a step down from Iannetta, it's just a matter of how big a step, and whether it's worth the million dollars saved and whatever Chatwood will become.
The money
It would have cost the Rockies $8.55 million to keep Iannetta for 2012 and 2013. To keep both Hernandez and Chatwood, it will cost them $7.5 million. Additionally, Chatwood at the very least fills a starter/bullpen innings depth role that would have likely gone to some low grade but costlier veteran. The small amounts of savings the Rockies have accrued with the Wigginton and Iannetta trades already add up to a fairly significant upgrade for the type of players they can go after in free agency. Players in the $8 million to $10 million/year salary range tend to be your Aaron Cooks and Carl Pavanos of the world. Going up to $11 million to $14 million starts seriously putting a foot in the door for a Roy Oswalt or Michael Cuddyer (not that the Rockies are targeting the latter at the moment.)
Plot synoposis:
Typical baseball trades will usually have at least a distinct possibility of being win/win scenarios, for instance, there's a chance Ubaldo Jimenez does well with the Indians and Drew Pomeranz and Alex White or Joe Gardner do well with the Rockies and both teams come out ahead.
In the Iannetta for Chatwood exchange/Hernandez signing, it's difficult to see how it becomes a win/win, which might be why most writers or analysts are avoiding that scenario altogether. If both Iannetta and Hernandez do well, the Angels lose because they would have traded a pitcher for a player they could have gotten for less on the free agent market. If only Iannetta does well, and neither Hernandez nor Chatwood contribute significantly to the Rockies over the next two seasons, which seems to be what many Internet writers project, than the Rockies will be the obvious losers. The one true win-win scenario involves Iannetta performing well, Hernandez performing decently enough, but not as well as Iannetta, but Chatwood eventually maturing into a decent pitcher, but not right away.
This scenario, unfortunately, won't feel like a win for Rockies fans as in the vacuum of this move only, it most certainly involves Colorado taking a step down in 2012 and possibly 2013. This also might be the most likely of the scenarios to unfold. Chatwood is only 21, to expect much of him right away would be a bit foolish on our part, and may leave Rockies fans as disappointed in the pitcher as Angels fans seemed to be down the stretch.
The critical reviews:
"If I was going to get traded, I couldn't be more thankful for the organization I was traded to. I'll develop even more under someone with that character and background."
Chris Iannetta, to USA TODAY
"It was awesome coming up with the Angels and playing near home for the team that drafted me, and it's definitely going to be hard leaving, but it's a business, and now I have to get ready to help the Rockies win games."
Tyler Chatwood, to the LA Times
"Giving up Tyler wasn't easy, but you have to give to get, and catching is very tough to come by."
Jerry Dipoto, to the LA Times
"Our scouts felt really strongly about acquiring him. We felt the timing was right. Chris was great for us. It's difficult to trade a homegrown player, but this could strengthen our ballclub and put him in a good situation."
Dan O'Dowd, to the Denver Post
The Rockies swore Iannetta was their catcher for 2012 but apparently had their fingers crossed when they said it, as they've shipped him off for a pitcher who doesn't fit the profile of a guy who'll succeed at Coors Field.
Keith Law, ESPN (insider subscription required)
The other issue with Chatwood is that he's not a clear upgrade over any of the Rockies current starting pitchers.
..Rockies are probably thinking that they made at worst a sideways move behind the plate and picked up a potential middle-of-the-rotation starter in return.
And in thinking that, they are most likely very wrong.
More after the jump
R.J. Anderson, Baseball Prospectus (subscription required)
****
Questions that haven't been asked or answered:
- Would Iannetta have re-signed with the Rockies at an affordable rate after 2013? It's doubtful to me. If he felt the organization wasn't keen on him, and with Wilin Rosario knocking on the door, and all the catcher war history, I think this is fairly likely, then the Rockies choice was to get what they could right now, or see him walk for nothing in return later. I am very doubtful that there was more than Chatwood available to the Rockies in an Iannetta. Checking out blogs of other teams in catching need, I've yet to see one where a fan suggests offering a player of Chatwood's caliber for CDI. Not that this survey is scientific at all, but it seems Iannetta has much more Internet trade value than he has real life trade value.
- How did the new CBA impact the decision making process? Hernandez would have cost a high draft pick for the signing team under the old CBA, while Iannetta would have had to have been offered an above market one year 2014 contract for the Rockies to receive draft pick compensation. The added affordability of not having to give up a draft pick for Hernandez I'm guessing definitely factored, and the near certainty of no compensation for Iannetta may have as well.
- How much do Hernandez's durability issues actually have to do with him, and how much do they have to do with having a starting caliber "back-up" in Ryan Hanigan playing behind him? The Reds had almost an equal split between the two catchers in 2011 and are fine letting Hernandez walk because Hanigan and prospect Devin Mesoraco are ready to take over, Yasmani Grandal not far away.
- Why is the importance of pitching depth getting overlooked? A couple of the posts seem to automatically assume projections as fact, which is one of my off-season pet peeves. They are useful tools, but just tools, and not prophetic visions. Assuming Chatwood enters the depth chart as the Rockies sixth best starter candidate for next Spring does not make this a bad trade by the Rockies, particularly given that he has two option seasons remaining. The average NL team used 22 pitchers in 2011, the Rockies used 29. Somebody unexpected will have to take innings at some point, and having Chatwood be that person saves the Rockies a lot over having it be an Alan Johnson or Greg Reynolds.
- What's next for the Rockies off season? While acknowledging that this pair of moves further weakens the 2012 team, they are not necessarily a sign that the Rockies are punting on their hopes of overtaking the Diamondbacks or Giants this upcoming season. The team still wants Martin Prado, for instance, and Huston Street seems likely to be traded at some point. Chatwood is also clearly not the only starting pitcher the Rockies will add (or at least want to add.) Can the team take a forward looking step back like this and still add the three or so wins it will take at other positions to close the gap with Arizona? That's not clear at this point, but again, projections aren't prophecies, and the Rockies are still within a safe talent range of division contention in the weak for 2012 NL West.
****
Early this off season, I mentioned that one of the areas I hoped the Rockies would target would be once heralded young starting pitchers that teams might be giving up too early on due to under-performance at the major league level. Chatwood seems to be exactly this type of pitcher. Given the lack of enthusiasm by projection systems, if he becomes successful, he would also be the kind of player that would allow a less moneyed club to close the gap on the clubs that can afford the better computers, and more analysts to keep an eye on them. It's the kind of move the Rockies need to make, and need to be right on, to be successful. The real important question is whether the team's scouts got this one correct.
If Chatwood can gain some command of his pitches as he matures, if he can gain some confidence in his secondary offerings to keep hitters guessing, the Rockies will come out ahead in the trade. If not, it will depend on how effective he will be out of the bullpen as to whether they break even. Philosophically, however, I like the move.
****
As for Iannetta, I was probably one of the first to tout the catcher at my old blog, and he's been a favorite for a long time. He's progressed more or less how I thought, as a Jason Varitek type that slowly grows into a team leadership role. I think I would have liked said progress to move along a little faster. Over his Rockies career (starting with his Aug. 27, 2006 debut) I would have liked to have seen him a bit more and Miguel Olivo and Yorvit Torrealba a bit less, but given catcher durability concerns, I don't think it's been as an egregious error to split the time as some make it out to be. At any rate, I do wish Dreamy the best of luck playing around Disneyland.
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At least
someone else still likes to go with the “Dreamy” meme for Iannetta.
"No Mission Too Difficult, No Sacrifice Too Great—Duty First" - 1st Infantry Division Motto
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That was my first thought when I heard the news -
no more Dreamy Iannetta home runs!
The off-season sucks.
That is all.
This made me look up Hernandez's full name.
Ramon Jose (Marin) Hernandez
Much harder to affectionately nickname. :(
Keith Law doesn't like it?
That’s odd.
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 1, 2011 9:11 AM MST reply actions 3 recs
But he values Iannetta and dislikes Tracy
I completely agree with both points
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by Cargo'es Yard on Dec 1, 2011 9:23 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Law takes it over the deep end
But I’m forced to agree with the sentiment, at least.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 10:00 AM MST up reply actions
Law's chat
Sean (MI)
Do you have any insight as to what the Rockies were thinking trading for Chatwood? Fastball was worst pitch last season + the move to Coors…
Klaw (1:03 PM)
I don’t get it. I understand they got many years of control, but some of those are going to be zero-value or near-zero-value years because he’s still developing.
Based on the assumption that Chatwood is, in fact, bad
having 2 good players at the same position does not necessitate trading one of them for a bad player.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 1:47 PM MST up reply actions
law:
James (Bensalem, PA)
What does the ROX signing Ramon Hernandez do to Willin Rosiaro?
Klaw (1:43 PM)
I would like to assume the Rockies are concerned about Rosario playing a full season. I believe 2011 was the first time he played 100 games in a calendar year.
That's my concern, almost to the letter.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 1:46 PM MST up reply actions
Here's my take on this:
I think it shows that the Rockies are serious about cleaning house. It goes back to that post-Ublado-trade conference call. There were a lot of vague declarations by DOD that young players were not handling the pressure well nor living up to their potential. There were also declarations that DOD was going to be more objective about Rockies farmhands. At the time, I knew this was at least directed at Smith, but, looking back, I think he was talking about at least three, if not four, players:
Smith
Stewart
Iannetta
Nelson
Nelson is on the bubble because I think that the organization had already given him up for organizational depth. I expect at least one of the other two will be moved before ST.
And I’m not suggesting that CDI is to C what Stewart is to 3B, but I think it is clear that CDI never lived up to the organization’s expectations, whether they were fair or not.
Anyway, I think the FO is done with this class of guys and is ready to replace them with the new class (Rosario, Blackmon, Wheeler, Arenado) over the next couple of seasons with stopgaps like Hernandez.
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Cleaning House...
Agreed. I believe the FO wants to shake-up the current clubhouse culture, so they’re going to flush-out a few guys and bring in some new/fresh blood. Hopefully Hernandez gels quickly with the pitching staff.
He couldve been talking about Dex at the time as well
Though he obviously turned his season around.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
Hernandez's approach should play fairly well at Coors
and he’ll likely be a better road hitter. I agree for the most part.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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Olivo had an .835 road OPS in KC then a .538 road OPS here
why will hernandez be different?
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Hernandez is more of a “hit for average” catcher. Olivo was all power, baby.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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weird double post
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
olivo had zero plate discipline
hernandez has good plate discipline
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one, but trading wiggy to the phillies totally makes it okay
PRMLB Arizona Diamondbacks GM
If they were at similar career stages, I'd agree,
but you have to figure on a quicker attrition of skills for Hernandez. If he can defy Father Time for the next couple of seasons, it would be trade gravy for the Rockies.
Age could be the wildcard
but, both players only have 2 years of team control. So, I think the short time frames make the age difference less important than it could have been.
But, valid point.
Wow
I love that quote by CDI. I really wish I knew what type of conversations Tracy had with him.
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Tracy: “____ _ _ ____ special, ____ ____ ____ ____ special. Special ____ ____ ____ ____ special.”
CDI: Ok.
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 1, 2011 9:42 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Tracy: Who are you again?
CDI: Chris Iannetta, I have been here since 2006
Tracy: Yorvit Torrealba?
CDI: No.
Tracy: Miguel Olivo?
CDI: No, I’m not latin
Tracy: Elizer Alfonzo?
/CDI leaves room, gets traded to the Angels
2011 - not even light can escape
by Rosenort on Dec 1, 2011 9:45 AM MST up reply actions 12 recs
I'll just go ahead and flec this
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
“Who was that guy?”
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 3:14 PM MST up reply actions
I did too
and I felt rage in the back of my throat
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 10:04 AM MST up reply actions
will he be saying the same thing when mathis gets 100 starts again next year?
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Clearly you haven't seen this story this morning
The Rockies are also expected to try to sign Angels backup Jeff Mathis if he’s non-tendered
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
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by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 1, 2011 10:15 AM MST up reply actions
at least he's not latin?
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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Meaning
Jim Tracy will never start him. We could have 1996 Mike Piazza and he’d get benched.
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 1, 2011 10:17 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Not sure
Last names ending with A sound latin.
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by Cargo'es Yard on Dec 1, 2011 10:25 AM MST up reply actions
Well
Piazza is close to Pizza.
Pizza is Italian.
Rome is in Italy.
The Pope lives in Rome.
The Pope speaks Latin.
Mmkay, you’re right, he’d have a shot with Tracy.
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 1, 2011 10:28 AM MST up reply actions 7 recs
Iannetta was asked to play with Italy
in the WBC, didn’t work for him.
2011 - not even light can escape
You have been the PR Player of the Week, my friend
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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Meh
I’m off my game a little bit today when it comes to actually talking baseball – I needed to see CDI’s 8-hole PA numbers twice before registering them :-/
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 1, 2011 10:32 AM MST up reply actions
this award is never given based on statistics :)
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
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You don't even need to make the pizza connection.
Piazza is the Italian word for plaza or town square.
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"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Dec 1, 2011 10:30 AM MST up reply actions
Yeah
But are you counting on Tracy to know that? The more ridiculous steps in logic, the more like Tracy it is ;-)
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 1, 2011 10:31 AM MST up reply actions 4 recs
Italian is a very special language
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 1, 2011 10:50 AM MST up reply actions
Isn't Iannetta Italian?
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 1, 2011 10:31 AM MST up reply actions
Where doesn't he?
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Play, no. But...

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"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
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by Greg Stanwood on Dec 1, 2011 10:35 AM MST up reply actions
No.
I’m quick with the Google.
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"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Dec 1, 2011 10:37 AM MST up reply actions
suure...
and i don’t have the wiggy picture saved…
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one, but trading wiggy to the phillies totally makes it okay
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I do have THIS one saved...

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by Greg Stanwood on Dec 1, 2011 12:33 PM MST up reply actions
is that the old veteran pitcher from Major League?
the one that rubs Vagisil on his chest?
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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I believe it's his brother.
They have a band called ‘The Bacon Brothers’
The off-season sucks.
That is all.
Yup
My co-worker has met them… and didn’t believe that they’re related because the brother is soooo much less attractive.
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 1, 2011 10:51 AM MST up reply actions
He's probably eaten a pizza once.
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"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
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by Greg Stanwood on Dec 1, 2011 10:33 AM MST up reply actions
At least...probably with bacon and pineapple.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
If my last name were Bacon, I'd be uncomfortable eating bacon.
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"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
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by Greg Stanwood on Dec 1, 2011 10:36 AM MST up reply actions
I have no problems eating fish
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 1, 2011 10:37 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
But do you hve problems eating fishers?
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"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Dec 1, 2011 10:37 AM MST up reply actions 2 recs
ENRICO PALAZZO IS THE UMPIRE!!!!
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 1, 2011 10:36 AM MST up reply actions
oh my god
Jim Tracy is trying to become Mike Scioscia.
You know, without the winning.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 10:17 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Don't question it
How much would we like a 2nd place finish?
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 1, 2011 10:18 AM MST up reply actions
That is just funny
in a horribly sad sort of way. I always wondered if we could possibly get a worse catcher than Manwaring or Ardoin…I guess DOD is set to make a run at it. Impact moves!
That people are so upset about this actually makes me laugh a bit.
Like there are a bazillion catchers better than Mathis or Dioner Navarro willing to sign minor league contracts with Spring Training invites.
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 1, 2011 10:21 AM MST up reply actions
"pretty low impact"
is a nice understatement.
I'm not upset about it
other than the “I want to win and having Jeff Mathis on the team makes that less likely” sort of way. Otherwise its quite funny. I think my office manager that plays rec league ball in LA would give us a better chance of competing, but I guess I’m not in DOD’s chair so I don’t get to offer him a contract.
There are moves that GM's make because they want to win
And then there are moves they make because they know that sometimes they don’t. And in fact, sometimes they crash spectacularly. The emergency catcher signing will usually fall more into that last category.
Im missing something
“sometimes they don’t”..what? Want to win? Is this a complete thought? If so, I’m missing it. Whatever. I don’t care. At this rate we could bring back Jorge Brito and it won’t make much of a difference in 2012.
Mathis is like
someone bringing meth into my house. No, I won’t touch it, but I still don’t want it in my house.
more like in your garden shed
You rarely go in there, so it’s not a huge concern until you have to look for that mason jar of assorted screws
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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I never looked at
Mathis’ numbers until now. Yo, they are bad, like hella bad, like seriously hella bad. I hope we don’t sign him, I don’t trust Tracy enough, and if Ramon gets injured or something, it’d be like giving a book of matches to a pyromaniac.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
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by Resolution on Dec 1, 2011 10:23 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Eh, not to worried. I clicked the link, it's from a questionable source at best.
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 1, 2011 10:25 AM MST up reply actions
barf
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one, but trading wiggy to the phillies totally makes it okay
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Now I feel much better about this.
The subtext of that quote is staggering. So, good for you Chris! Enjoy your new-found freedom.
I miss the magic. (h/t papality)
I do too
On a personal level, it’s sad for us, but good for Chris. Hope he has renewed energy and happiness in California.
"There's no crying in baseball" - Tom Hanks in "A League of Their Own"
"Ninety percent of this game is mental, the other half is physical" - Yogi Berra
"We made too many wrong mistakes" - Yogi Berra (again)
"I believe there is a universal truth to the process of doing things right."
- Huston Street
"Jim Tracy is not my HomeBoy" - me
by purpleJerseygirl on Dec 1, 2011 10:32 AM MST up reply actions
Phillies have invited Scott Elarton to camp. Only Major League player I’ve ever talked to on the phone.
As Grant put it, you can’t make fun of the Phillies for this move “Because Ryan Vogelsong.”
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 1, 2011 9:19 AM MST reply actions
Why did you talk to him on the phone?
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 10:04 AM MST up reply actions
Wrong number
"Surgeons have determined that doing the wave will, yes, will cause tears to the suprapinatus muscle and the infraspinatus muscle from the throwing of an individual's arms rapidly into the air. In addition, any children doing the wave will be sold to the circus. Do NOT do the wave in the ballpark. Doing the wave is safe at pro football games and Miley Cyrus concerts.
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by RdRnnr on Dec 1, 2011 10:05 AM MST up reply actions 3 recs
because he was too far away to hear him otherwise?
2011 - not even light can escape
by Rosenort on Dec 1, 2011 10:05 AM MST up reply actions 4 recs
My roommate at the time was from eastern Colorado and they were friends growing up, and they kind of reconnected when he played for the Rockies.
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 1, 2011 10:13 AM MST up reply actions
When i worked for a bank, I talked to Curtis Leskanic...
He’d lost his credit card (not my department, though) and was amused that I knew who he was.
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
If Chatwood develops as was expected
Its a nice return for the Rockies. As of right now though, I think the Angels win this trade. They get a 3 WAR catcher for two years for a total of about $8.5 million. Chatwood even at his highest projected ceiling was about a $10 to $15 million value.
I am willing to bet the Rockies are going to groom Chatwood to be their closer of the future after Street is gone.
If he remains in the rotation, the Rockies have an amazing, young rotation going forward with Rogers, White, Pomeranz, Chacin, Chatwood, Hammel and Nicasio. I wouldnt be shocked to see a few more moves involving one of those guys for a second baseman…maybe Martin Prado….
And Brothers
I prefer both as closers of the future to Chatwood
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 1, 2011 9:33 AM MST up reply actions
The Rox are more looking towards Rex Brothers being the closer of the future.
But we’ll see what Chatwood brings in that regard. And I am kind of doubting that any of the possible starters for 2012 would be moved for Prado just because the Rox m.o. in spring is to throw a bunch of arms on the roster and see what sticks.
I would prefer not to see them move any starting arms until we get down the road a piece and see what can be expected from the returns of Nicasio and De La Rosa.
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 1, 2011 9:31 AM MST up reply actions
Maybe two years...
Iannetta can void his option. If he does well, you can be certain he’ll do so. Iannetta is by no means a sure thing for 3 WAR, either.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
And a 3 WAR season is no sure thing for a big payday from him
mostly because it’d still include a .225 average
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 1, 2011 2:23 PM MST up reply actions
I have no issues with trading CDI
And I see Hernandez as having similar overall if not very different specific production (does that make any sense?)
What has me worried is the scouts thoughts about Chatwood. Really surprised they aren’t giving him the benefit of the doubt considering age and (supposed) stuff.
Makes you wonder
Angels are in a similar position as the Rockies as they have Hank Conger in their system. Kinda makes you wonder why they preferred to give up a young, affordable SP for potentially one year of Iannetta instead of just signing a stopgap like Hernandez.
Hernandez really isn’t a starter.
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Tracy doesn't think so.
But I don’t think Tracy is a manager, so there’s that.
Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
by Thnikkaman on Dec 1, 2011 9:34 AM MST up reply actions 7 recs
oh yeah.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 10:05 AM MST up reply actions
Depends on Rosario,
but probably no more than that.
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I really don't think that's fair
He’s played at a starter level for a good long while. The Reds just had Ryan Hanigan, who is just about as good. They split time, but on many other teams, they’d be the prominent starters
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 1, 2011 9:35 AM MST up reply actions
He hasn’t started over 97 games since 2008. He COULD start, but I’m not sure that many clubs would look to sign him to start 120 games for two years.
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We wouldn't either
But not starting a lot of games since 2008 could also have kept the mileage off his knees that would otherwise negate him from starting a lot at his age
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 1, 2011 9:44 AM MST up reply actions
Well, he is, but he's not a 140g/year starter like we've seen other teams play their starters
The Rockies philosophy is that catchers are made of balsa wood, so if Hernandez cracks 100 games I’ll be shocked.
Frankly, I would like to see Hernandez/Morales(or Rosario, you know what I mean)/Pacheco in the mix, so that we can use one of the 3 catching potentials as a PH without the unavoidable doom of not having a catcher available in the event the first catcher goes down.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 10:08 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
They were looking into Hernandez too.
The Dipoto quotes are pretty clear as to their motivation. He highly values OBP, and Iannetta’s always been solid in that regard.
Putting him in the 9 hole in the AL is a much better place than 8 in the NL. It’ll be interesting to see what happens with him in a spot like that.
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I am as well
It’ll be interesting to see if CDI’s OBP really is just a result of hitting 8 hole.
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 1, 2011 9:49 AM MST up reply actions
I wonder if his approach will change
He took a lot of pitches and worked very deep into counts, I would have liked to see him more aggressive at times, now he should have the chance to do that.
2011 - not even light can escape
Perhaps
He’s probably going to actually get thrown at – my guess would be more HR, more K, slightly higher average and SLG.
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 1, 2011 9:53 AM MST up reply actions
I disagree
His career strikeout rate is worse in the 8-hole than all other positions. He won’t have to swing at bad pitches because he gets villified for walking with 2-out RISP and Chacin on deck
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 1, 2011 10:04 AM MST up reply actions
If only Millwood were on deck in this scenario...
he’d be cranking grand slams all the time
PRMLB: Making the Royals relevant
by I_Am_Marshall on Dec 1, 2011 10:07 AM MST up reply actions
Career rates
Non intentional walk (batting 8th): 13.04%
Non intentional walk (batting 1-7,9): 12.34%
Total walk (batting 8th): 13.91%
Total walk (batting 1-7,9): 12.77%
Intentional walk (batting 8th): 0.87%
Intentional walk (batting 1-7,9): 0.44%
He has had 100 LESS PA in his career batting 8th than the other spots combined. (817 vs. 916).
I think the 8-hole argument is given way too much weight.
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 1, 2011 9:58 AM MST up reply actions
I'm not assigning it TOO much significance
I do think a lot of pitchers will throw around him and not give him too much to hit, knowing the pitcher comes up next (resulting in a lot of “not intentional” walks). I’m just interested to see what happens when pitchers really go after him to avoid the leadoff hitter.
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 1, 2011 10:00 AM MST up reply actions
I guess that's what I'm saying though
Granted, hitting 7th means you might have Jonathan Herrera hitting behind you rather than Mike Trout, but we have a big sample of him not hitting in front of a pitcher. It changes a bit. Just not that much
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 1, 2011 10:03 AM MST up reply actions
It’s still going to be interesting to see how a new situation affects him.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 1, 2011 10:04 AM MST up reply actions
To put more context on it
His career walk rate, throwing out the 8-hole stats completely, would still put him in the top 25 in all of MLB in 2011
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 1, 2011 10:01 AM MST up reply actions
He didn't always just hit 8th.
you can thank Tracy for that.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 10:09 AM MST up reply actions
I know
but am I wrong to say the majority of his PAs weren’t in the 8 hole?
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 1, 2011 10:11 AM MST up reply actions
817 vs. 916 = 47% of all PAs in the 8 hole.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 1, 2011 10:13 AM MST up reply actions
That's still a pretty significant number.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 1, 2011 10:14 AM MST up reply actions
Agreed
But I was under the impression it was somewhere around 65-70% of PAs
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 1, 2011 10:16 AM MST up reply actions
Man....I posted that 15 minutes prior, and you even responded to that comment
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 1, 2011 10:16 AM MST up reply actions
Oof you're right.
That post had a lot of numbers though. What are we saying around here lately about juries and math?
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 1, 2011 10:18 AM MST up reply actions
Wait, are you trying to tell me that a catcher DOES NOT have to hit 8th?
/thud
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
by SDcat09 on Dec 1, 2011 10:18 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Don't listen to the crazy man
he is trying to make you buy into his madness. He tried to tell me second basemen don’t have to hit second.
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 1, 2011 10:53 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Damn those 8 other spots!
Damn them all to hell!!!
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
And only on the condition
that they hit a grand slam one time
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 1, 2011 11:08 AM MST up reply actions
See Buster Posey.
80 today and 79 tomorrow is how many days remain until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
I really can support this "Acquire All The Arms" strategy
everyone start looking at 2010 team prospect lists for top arms that had a rough 2011. Let’s get them as well.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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Clearly we've entered the Arms Race phase in the War of 2012
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Brian Matusz
Mike Montgomery
Andrew Brackman
Chris Sale
Wonder what it’d take to get the real Tyler Matzek
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 1, 2011 9:43 AM MST up reply actions
I like this too
Esp in the NL West – give us about 3-4 years and I think we have an SF Giants-esque rotation. Nasty and young.
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 1, 2011 9:46 AM MST up reply actions
You buy enough tickets, you got a better shot to win the raffle.

"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
by Franchise26 on Dec 1, 2011 9:49 AM MST up reply actions 4 recs
Jack Moore had a good piece
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/colorado-selects-hernandez-as-bridge-to-rosario/
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 1, 2011 9:39 AM MST reply actions
The best part is this link
from Keith Law
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
PRMLB: The Brew Crew
Argh
If I ever meet Keith Law I will punch him multiple times in the face. I don’t like Tracy either, but c’mon. How about a hint of fricken professionalism.
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 1, 2011 9:48 AM MST up reply actions
I would like to look at it as he sticking up for CDI
CDI’s quote above makes it seem as Tracy wasn’t very professional with him.
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by Cargo'es Yard on Dec 1, 2011 9:57 AM MST up reply actions
Oh I agree
I don’t think Tracy was professional with CDI. I just think it was a pretty childish tweet from Law (and, more importantly, I have a burning desire inside my soul to actually find out why he hates the Rockies – Jim Tracy is not a reason).
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 1, 2011 10:03 AM MST up reply actions
It's just his writing style
and the way he rates transactions. I’m under the impression he likes sure things as in TOR or #2 pitchers and star players. He seems to criticize #4 or #5 starters but there’s a lot of value there. Case in point is Brandon Beachy and Vance Worley. You would think they are destined for the pen or one year wonders based on the way he writes but it’s more he not believing they will ever be Halladay or Josh Johnson or Carpenter.
There’s a lot of value in those type of pitchers and don’t agree with his grade on trades but I in no way take it as a beef or dislike of the organization as a whole.
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by Cargo'es Yard on Dec 1, 2011 10:19 AM MST up reply actions
He trashes the Rockies TOR starters and star player prospects too is the thing.
Arenado will never stick at third. Matzek is permanently ruined, etc..,etc…
He really does seem to take his usual schtick up a notch for our fave organization.
The Baseball America list strongly implied Matzek is permanently ruined
And most were dubious about Arenado sticking at third. He made a pretty drastic change in about four months of games
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 1, 2011 10:25 AM MST up reply actions
Most were, a past tense, Law's in the present
That said, he doesn’t change his opinion quickly, if at all. Chris Nelson would be a case where he’s been far more positive on a Rockies player than many for far longer than he probably should have been.
Maybe Chris Nelson ruined it for us on the KLaw meter
Although SD is going to overtake us soon based on Heyer leaving and Bynes taking over. Plus he is not a believer in Casey Kelly anymore…he changed his opinion on him quick. Again, he rated him a TOR type but now…not so much.
PRMLB Owner of the STL Red Birds
by Cargo'es Yard on Dec 1, 2011 11:02 AM MST up reply actions
He hated the Tulo and Cargo extensions too
If I remember correctly
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 1, 2011 10:26 AM MST up reply actions
He also said Fowler would be a better pro than CarGo
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 1, 2011 10:29 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
lets hope he's right about that
and magically Fowler becomes twice as productive!
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
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at this point that axe is really worn down to a nub.
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 1, 2011 10:30 AM MST up reply actions
True he did
He hated the Braun deal too but surprised he liked the Kemp deal. But I completely disagree with his initial thoughts on Cargo. That’s a win no matter how he feels about it.
PRMLB Owner of the STL Red Birds
by Cargo'es Yard on Dec 1, 2011 10:40 AM MST up reply actions
To be fair
There were pros and cons to both extensions – security and risk. I just feel like the cons got covered a lot more than the pros. Oh well.
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 1, 2011 10:42 AM MST up reply actions
Pretty much...
He said Freddie Freeman will never develop the power to be a major league 1B before the 2011 season…promptly went out and hit 21 as a 21-year-old rookie.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
You're not far off
Six were against the Rockies.
Forget Prado, that’s the guy you should trade for… #notsrs
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
The Braves made out like bandits with the new CBA.
They’ve spent $10 million less than the average team in draft bonuses over the last five years but are still able to pull in guys like Freeman, Heyward, Kimbrel, Minor, etc..,
Yeah, it fits their style, although I think they hit a lucky patch with Heyward/Freeman.
The pitching is definitely a process over talent thing, though that’s not to say that the players weren’t talented. They find guys that they can maximize effectiveness and snag them.
Minor was a “bad” pick that looks like he’s going to be pretty good, Beachy was undrafted, Hanson was a 22nd (or 20th??) round draft and follow guy. I don’t know how they keep doing it…other than to say they miss sometimes too.
I’m not sure how the international part of the CBA is going to work out for them, since they do have guys like Teheran, Delgado, et al. that were int’l signings. It may or may not be a big issue.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
I am not so sure this benifits them
as all that money that can’t be spent on talent will now be dumped in to things like international development and scouting.
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Other teams will be a couple of years behind the Braves in this department, though
And they’ll be trying to play catch-up to teams like the Braves and the Rockies in the International Scouting department of signing players on the cheap. That market might become very interesting for the next couple of seasons (until they ruin it with an International draft) as it will almost be like a college recruitment scenario. By which I mean with limited scholarship money/bonus money, it will come down to the best facilities/opportunities for advancement.
Fair but if Cubs or Astros really want to turn it around they
can just buy up the Brave scouting department one piece at a time
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
MLB front office poaching certainly occurs,
but the Braves have been very stable over the last decade. The Rockies had a period where a lot of talented guys were leaving for other jobs around 2005/2006, but have since also stabilized.
oh the benefits of a superior scouting collection
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
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PRMLB: The Brew Crew
If hitting against the Rockies is the litmus test
I would rather grab Loney
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Much smaller sample size...
But .438/.486/1.094 for a 1.579 OPS is well above Loney’s career line against the Rockies. Loney’s hit 15 DINGERZ though, so there’s that.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
yeah but loney will be free soon
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
I liked it all except the blaming Jim Tracy. Everyone knows that I dislike Tracy, but I don’t think that he’s the only one to blame here.
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I'll generally
support public criticism of Tracy if it in any way expedites the ‘hire a new manager’ process.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
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PRMLB: The Brew Crew
by Resolution on Dec 1, 2011 9:48 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
agreed
anyone who has watched the last two years and doesn’t think Tracy is a terrible manager hasn’t been paying attention
2011 - not even light can escape
Indeed
I was willing to preserve the good memories from 2009 and ignore the lineup roulette until about halfway through 2011. And now I’m sick of it. 2009 was still recent enough that I’m willing to give him a very short shot in 2012 to show he can still competently manage a team. But it will be very short.
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 1, 2011 9:54 AM MST up reply actions
the frustrating thing
is that what succeeded in 2009, mostly the lineup stability, is the exact opposite of what he has been doing the last two years, and the same thing he did in LA and Pittsburgh that made their fanbases dislike him.
2011 - not even light can escape
Exactly!!!!!
And lineup stability is what he promised when he got the job. Granted, I don’t think he’s really been given the pieces to have a stable lineup in the past 2 years. That doesn’t excuse the CDI/Alfanzo mess, and doesn’t make me like Tracy any more.
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 1, 2011 10:04 AM MST up reply actions
maybe Tracy stops with the stupid s- since he doesn't yet have a deal 2013
Hahaha no.
He’s still gonna stupid it up.
"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"
/it is a new beginning, right?
by The Lodo Magic Man on Dec 1, 2011 10:08 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
no, he's gonna go back to 2009 mode
head down, play the starters, wait for extension, then start dicking everything up again
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 10:12 AM MST up reply actions
This means
We should just sign him to 1 year extensions every year.
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 1, 2011 10:13 AM MST up reply actions
Oh man..this is depressing.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
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Honestly, I'll buy a round for whoever meets me on opening day
If they DON’T announce a 2-year extension for Tracy.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 10:25 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Just another reason...
to not miss the opening day meet-up.
"Surgeons have determined that doing the wave will, yes, will cause tears to the suprapinatus muscle and the infraspinatus muscle from the throwing of an individual's arms rapidly into the air. In addition, any children doing the wave will be sold to the circus. Do NOT do the wave in the ballpark. Doing the wave is safe at pro football games and Miley Cyrus concerts.
-scoreboard announcement at Ranger Ballpark in Arlington via Baseball Nation.
will you also bring the rounds if they DO announce an extension?
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
PRMLB: The Brew Crew
yes
but not to worry, it’ll be me.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 10:49 AM MST up reply actions
/Books plane ticket
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 1, 2011 10:45 AM MST up reply actions
I was just going to say
RIRF you’d better bookmark this comment :-)
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 1, 2011 10:46 AM MST up reply actions
why would he need to bookmark a comment
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 10:49 AM MST up reply actions
So he can
RIRF you on opening day if they haven’t announced a Tracy extension.
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 1, 2011 10:52 AM MST up reply actions
why would he need to bookmark it
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 10:56 AM MST up reply actions
the joke is his search skills are creepy
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 10:56 AM MST up reply actions
now trade me kipnis
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 10:59 AM MST up reply actions
If you give me Donnie Murphy, I can make the Goatee move.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 1, 2011 11:01 AM MST up reply actions
Who are you?
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 1, 2011 11:02 AM MST up reply actions
if you look at my handy dandy sig
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 11:21 AM MST up reply actions
youre Batting Metrics?
PRMLB - Tampa Bay Rays
/beams with pride
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 11:51 AM MST up reply actions
RIRF is the regex of Purple Row.
#nerdhumor
Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
by Thnikkaman on Dec 1, 2011 10:52 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Yup, it's just weird.
Total speculation on my part, but I think sticking with a constant lineup killed him inside a little bit. So when getting to the playoffs got him a new contract, he felt his managerial smarts were vindicated. Which is what led him to break out the wheel-o-lineup from storage.
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 1, 2011 10:08 AM MST up reply actions
I usually tune out Keith Law, but I agree with him/FanGraphs/Pouliot on this one.
Pitching depth is, in fact, a good and necessary thing to have, but I don’t think this is the sort of pitching depth we lack. We already have enough young/unproven/maybe-maybe not/aspiring mid-rotation guys on the roster. Which is to say: we already have lots of Chatwoods. Even factoring in the inevitable need to evtenually have to rely on one of these guys, and even considering the fact that prospect-projection is a bit a crap shoot and therfore its good to cast a wide net, I just think we already have plenty of guys in this category right now.
I understand the contract status factor, as well. But in the grand scheme of things, I consider that to be marginal in comparison to what I feel is a more than marginal drop off from Iannatta to Hernandez in the immediate future. (#CatcherWars)
And yes, all of this is colored by my view of Chatwood as a marginal prospect (#ChatwoodWars?) My overridding view on him, taking aside all the rate stats, periphials, 2-seam/4-seam velocity stuff that’s been covered to death already: just because the Angels rushed him to the majors too early doesn’t mean he deserved or rightly earned the right to pitch in the majors at 21. Yes, that experience should help him down the road, but I don’t think we should use his pitching in the majors at 21 as part of the argument in favor of Chatwood as a good prospect. We’ll see, of course. I hope I’m wrong.
Finally, i’ll just say this: I am a big fan of Iannetta’s (if you couldn’t already tell), but obviously a much bigger fan of the Rockies. And I hope this turns out well for the team. But I’m also thrilled for Iannetta to get out from under the thumbs of DOD and Tracy, I’ll be rooting hard for Iannetta this year and going forward, and if/when he ever comes to bat for an opposing team with DOD in the Rockies box above and/or Tracy in the Rockies dugout below, I’ll be rooting for an Iannetta homerun and a wink or two in thier direction. Just hopefully with the Rockies already up 5 or 6 runs. ;-)
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
by Gasstation1 on Dec 1, 2011 9:53 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
Where are all these Chatwoods?
I see one.
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Can we get Jimmy Chitwood?
That dude is clutch.
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 1, 2011 10:00 AM MST up reply actions
We have a lot of arms, but we can always use more.
Plus, if you look at the game logs, Chatwood was actually a decent starter from April through most of July. Inconsistent, but better than you would expect from a 21 year old guy with “okay” stuff.
Put him in the NL West, with mediocre offenses and pitcher-friendly parks, and I think he’s serviceable.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
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I don't think Hernandez had .400 home/road OPS spilt either
Watch him have it this year though.
"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"
/it is a new beginning, right?
by The Lodo Magic Man on Dec 1, 2011 10:05 AM MST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
How many starts do you think Iannetta would have had with the Rockies in 2012 and 2013?
The suggestion that he’s a significant upgrade over Hernandez implies that you think Jim Tracy will be starting him 140 or 150 games in each of the next couple of years. With Wilin Rosario around as well. Even if I could logically agree that he was that much more valuable than Hernandez, I really can’t make the logical leap that he would get the playing time this argument implies.
And, as I’ve noted in a few places, PAs and success for CDI have been related historically. CDI with less than 70 games played has a 100, 78 and 72 OPS+. Hernandez has been more consistent in that role. I think there would be a real concern about CDI’s performance with reduced playing time.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 1, 2011 10:09 AM MST up reply actions
EXCUSE ME.
IF CHRIS IANNETTA IS STRUGGLING, IT’S BECAUSE HE’S CHOOSING TO STRUGGLE. HOW DARE YOU SIR?!
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 1, 2011 10:16 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Not quite...
If Chris Iannetta is struggling, it is because of the WBC.
by PioneerSkies on Dec 1, 2011 10:20 AM MST up reply actions
It's because the backup catcher hasn't gotten enough PA's
#Tracylogic
"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"
/it is a new beginning, right?
by The Lodo Magic Man on Dec 1, 2011 10:38 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
It's because Iannetta isn't fiery enough
no….that can’t be right
#cdiejected……
hmmm
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
It's because Iannetta isn't framing enough pitches.
#uslessmlbcatcherskills
Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
Speaking of...
Where is that .gif?
Altar Boy in the Church of Santo Ubaldo
"...buffalo chicken is a fine anti-depressant, after all." -UZ
"... One order of buffalo wings, please..." -Yokel, after July 30, 2011
you can hunt for it
and I’ll probably link it tomorrow.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 12:32 PM MST up reply actions
Once again. It was mentioned. Here you go
http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=16966349
80 today and 79 tomorrow is how many days remain until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
Are you saying we can only mention it once?
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
No. I posted it last night also.
I will post it as many times as requested too.
Can already hear the crickets.
80 today and 79 tomorrow is how many days remain until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
Why are you so against crickets?!
I thought 2011 sucked pretty bad. I have nothing to add to that.
by prettyinpurple on Dec 1, 2011 7:45 PM MST up reply actions
I have nothing against crickets.
Its just the fact that most of my comments are quiet afterwards. I guess I’m lame.
80 today and 79 tomorrow is how many days remain until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
sok
I thought 2011 sucked pretty bad. I have nothing to add to that.
by prettyinpurple on Dec 1, 2011 8:00 PM MST up reply actions
Or just so brilliant
(or at least good) enough that sometimes there need not be a response.
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
Pfft....If I ever get to the point where no response is needed.
I won’t be on here no more. There is no brilliance in my comments on here. Just random stuff that rolls off my fingers.
79 today and 78 tomorrow is how many days remain until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
"if/when he ever comes to bat for an opposing team"
Angels come to Coors Field for interleague play in June
"There's no crying in baseball" - Tom Hanks in "A League of Their Own"
"Ninety percent of this game is mental, the other half is physical" - Yogi Berra
"We made too many wrong mistakes" - Yogi Berra (again)
"I believe there is a universal truth to the process of doing things right."
- Huston Street
"Jim Tracy is not my HomeBoy" - me
by purpleJerseygirl on Dec 1, 2011 10:52 AM MST up reply actions
I will stand, clap, and cry.
Have you all seen “That Thing You Do”? At the end of the scene where the Wonders play the Hollywood Music Showcase, there’s a girl standing and doing the “arms over the head clapping” thing and just bawling.
That will be me.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 10:53 AM MST up reply actions
Tracy will get fired
then hired by the Angels and bench Iannetta for that series, just to piss me off.
2011 - not even light can escape
did you just change your avatar
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 10:57 AM MST up reply actions
nice
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 10:58 AM MST up reply actions
Did you change your hair?
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 1, 2011 11:04 AM MST up reply actions
I thought so.
I was going to ask about the nose job, but it seemed like that would be rude…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 1, 2011 11:47 AM MST up reply actions
Either that or you'd be...
PRMLB - Tampa Bay Rays
the tears were the focal point
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 11:57 AM MST up reply actions
headlining at comedy works this weekend.
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 1, 2011 11:58 AM MST up reply actions
Sweet!
Maybe Chatwood will be the starter that day…
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
I don't know what outcome I would want...
Probably Chatwood throwing a 9 inning 1-hitter where the 1 hit is CDI hitting a home run. And the Rockies score >2 runs
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 1, 2011 10:56 AM MST up reply actions
which is more likely?
/deadpan
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 10:57 AM MST up reply actions
Along with a few epic staredowns and Iannetta falling into the Rockies dugout on top of Jim Tracy while catching a foul popup...
…I’d take that.
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
No injuries of course
(other than to Jim Tracy’s credibility)
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
And then
hitting a foul fly ball into DOD’s suite, and bonking him in the head (again, no injuries)
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 1, 2011 11:04 AM MST up reply actions
Also...
…for reasons that can only be explained by CDI being “special” and “hog-slopping,” after the ball bounces off of DOD’s head (no injuries) and drops into his lap, he discovers the ball has on it a well-reasoned, well-articulated, 500-word (yet somehow still emminantly readable) essay written specefically for DOD by Iannetta (in caligraphy) laying out the irrefutable case for Tracy’s immediate firing. DOD then takes this ball down to the dugout, places it Tracy’s hand, and has him escorted out of Coors Field.
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
No injuries, of course.
Altar Boy in the Church of Santo Ubaldo
"...buffalo chicken is a fine anti-depressant, after all." -UZ
"... One order of buffalo wings, please..." -Yokel, after July 30, 2011
Jorge is going to be the Rockies highest payed player in 2012.
When was the last time it wasn’t Todd Helton or Larry Walker?
"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"
/it is a new beginning, right?
by The Lodo Magic Man on Dec 1, 2011 10:03 AM MST via mobile reply actions
Great question.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
and Preston Wilson was only
100,000 behind Todd’s $12,600,000 in 2005
2011 - not even light can escape
Thank Mike Hampton for that
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 1, 2011 10:16 AM MST up reply actions
So do I get banned from the site
If I bring up Denny Neagle? Where did he rank with his big pay day?
I knew Denny in college and have seen him a couple of times since the incident that got him out of the game, always interesting to see what people think of him.
Below Mike Hampton and Todd Helton
He made about as much a year as Aaron Cook has and Jorge de la Rosa does. It wasn’t HUGE HUGE
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 1, 2011 11:18 AM MST up reply actions
NO
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 1, 2011 11:24 AM MST up reply actions
And judging by pictures
not a bargain at any price…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 1, 2011 11:34 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
It was $7 million for 01 and 02 and $9 million for 03 and 04
Although that would probably equate to over $10 million a year in a contract by today’s standards.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 1, 2011 11:22 AM MST up reply actions
For comparison
Walker was getting $12 million in 03 and Helton was getting $10.6 million
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 1, 2011 11:25 AM MST up reply actions
banned
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 1, 2011 11:44 AM MST up reply actions
via Scott Miller (CBS Sports) on Twitter
Sources: Maicer Izturis was in Angels-Rockies trade conversations before Rox pried P Tyler Chatwood from LA for C Iannetta.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Mar-tin Pra-do
clap-clap clap-clap-clap
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 1, 2011 10:14 AM MST up reply actions
you're kidding
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 10:14 AM MST up reply actions
Now the discussion becomes
Who did we want more – 5 years of Chatwood or 1 year of Izturis?
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 1, 2011 10:15 AM MST up reply actions
That's...not even a discussion.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Even though I'm critical of the Chatwood trade..
…even I prefer that to a would-be Izturis trade.
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
Agreed
Although I might change my mind if I’m subjected to 162 more iterations of the Colorado Rockies Second Base (2-hole) Experiment.
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 1, 2011 10:21 AM MST up reply actions
I agree
But I’m moving away from the whole “It could be worse” mentality, because that’s what got us into being “ok” with hovering around .500 and waiting for a break to make the postseason.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 10:26 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I feel like you want to opine on something bigger here
Perhaps in tomorrow’s Rockpile?
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 1, 2011 10:33 AM MST up reply actions
I think several of his offseason rockpiles have had that subtext
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 1, 2011 10:35 AM MST up reply actions
I thought he wanted to venture out onto a more specific branch of that three though
Perhaps I read too much into it though.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 1, 2011 10:46 AM MST up reply actions
me not writing a farewell to Chris Iannetta tomorrow would be absolutely remiss.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 10:54 AM MST up reply actions
I feel like I did with Ubaldo here.
I’m wondering if my lack of caring that he is gone somehow says something about me being a cold, heartless bastard.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 1, 2011 10:59 AM MST up reply actions
Meh
Ubaldo was so upsetting to me just because of the way it was handled… not an okay way to say goodbye to such an important player to the franchise. I’ll never forget my mom crying while we watched in the living room.
Iannetta will be going to a better place – he’s actually going to be a starter and will be rid of the outrageous “matchupz/balsa wood” treatment of the organization.
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 1, 2011 11:02 AM MST up reply actions
Iannetta will be going to a better place
RIP.
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"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Dec 1, 2011 11:08 AM MST up reply actions 5 recs
I lol'd harder than I should have.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
In the arms of the Angels...
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 1, 2011 11:09 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Why do I feel the need to buy a dog a cup of coffee?
Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
by Thnikkaman on Dec 1, 2011 11:12 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
RIP
Regress in Peace?
Think about how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! --George Carlin
by J_Stone on Dec 1, 2011 11:55 AM MST up reply actions 4 recs
WINNER!
Close this RP down for the day.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 1, 2011 11:57 AM MST up reply actions
Well it has been four months so some of the emotion should have worn off by now.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 1, 2011 11:04 AM MST up reply actions
I still feel like Ubaldo was a breakup
Like it’s SUPER awkward to see him pitching for another club.
I begged for them to trade Iannetta last season, if you scroll back through Counting Rocks to one of my last articles there.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 11:22 AM MST up reply actions
Makes it easier for me
to think of Ubaldo as a older Cougar, and Pom and White as two new young coeds. If you look at like a guy going through a mid life crisis it makes sense.
2011 - not even light can escape
Ah duh,
/Whacks self in the head.
/Gets tissues ready
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 1, 2011 11:03 AM MST up reply actions
Uh.....
o_O
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
whacking and tissues
take it somewhere else, buster
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 11:51 AM MST up reply actions
mediocrity sucks
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 1, 2011 10:41 AM MST up reply actions
Couldn't we have had both?
For CDI and a C prospect? Izturis is like what people want Herrera to be but never is going to.
Nice
I just asked Renck if that was in the discussions
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 1, 2011 10:40 AM MST up reply actions
Oh...... this hurts
I’m a fan of Chatwood, but I would love me some Izturis….
It's Jim Tracy's Fault.
My take on trade/signing...
Meh. I think DOD didn’t harm the team for the next couple years, but he didn’t help us either. Hernandez, if he stays healthy/productive at 35/36, is roughly a wash with CDI. Chatwood, at age 22/23 in 2012/13, is not likely to be better than a replacement level pitcher, UNLESS Apodaca can do for him what he did for JDLR. I see that as unlikely since pitchers of Chatwood’s mold don’t suddenly find the strike zone and strikeout pitch, at least not at age 22 or 23.
So, the key to this trade/signing, long-term, is Chatwood at ages 24, 25, and 26. My opinion of that…..who the heck knows?!? For all we know, we might draft a kid out of college in 2012 who’s better than Chatwood in his age 24-26 seasons. This is a total crapshoot, and the best you can say about Chatwood in the 3rd to 5th years that we have control of him is that he’s “depth”. It’s nice to have depth, but it’s not in and of itself the ingredients of a winner.
Talent and production is job #1 for a GM to obtain, not just mediocre depth. In that regard, DOD has failed here, and I too was thinking CDI could command more in return. He’s an above-average starting MLB catcher now at age 28, and I was thinking one year of that in combination with another one of our redundant player/prospects could actually get us a proven MLB talent that could help us the next two years. Instead, DOD trades him solo, and doesn’t help our 2012/13 chances. To be fair, he covered himself with the Hernandez signing, though.
So that’s why I say “Meh”.
by GoRoxGo on Dec 1, 2011 10:42 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
and I was thinking one year of that in combination with another one of our redundant player/prospects could actually get us a proven MLB talent that could help us the next two years
Like whom?
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 1, 2011 10:47 AM MST up reply actions
That's a tangential conversation....
Suffice it to say that there are many MLB-average players that could be obtained via trade of CDI and one other player/prospect, or maybe even CDI alone. Some could help us at positions of need (RH OF, 2B, 3B, other more-proven pitching, etc.). To talk about which ones is a separate conversation that is tangential to my point.
No. it isn;t
If you’re going to criticize DOD for not getting something better, then it implies that he could have reasonably gotten something better. If you don’t know of a few better deals, then your criticism is unwarranted.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 1, 2011 11:05 AM MST up reply actions
Do you HONESTLY think that Chatwood is the best we could do?
I don’t. Naming names gets into a tangential endless back and forth exchange that I don’t have time or interest in pursuing right now. You will not bait me intio that, sorry.
by GoRoxGo on Dec 1, 2011 11:09 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
He's not baiting you into anything
You introduced the assertion that there are better deals out there. Asking you to identify them is just asking you to support the point you already made.
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 1, 2011 11:11 AM MST up reply actions
Frankly, it's impossible to say...
what player(s) would be available in exchange for CDI in combination with other Rockies player(s) and/or prospect(s), so your and PetroCW’s question and plea of my “supporting” my assertion is rhetorical and meant to be argumentative. I’m not going to bite…..too many permutations to merit such a discussions. Suffice it to say that “better than we got” is highly possible.
Interesting...
So you make an assertion, tell us that it’s “impossible to say” what specific examples of it might be, then make the assertion again. And then tell us that we’re being rhetorical and argumentative?
OK, then…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 1, 2011 11:22 AM MST up reply actions
The contradiction of:
Frankly, it’s impossible to say…
what player(s) would be available in exchange for CDI in combination with other Rockies player(s) and/or prospect(s),
and
Suffice it to say that "better than we got" is highly possible.
is fun.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 1, 2011 11:22 AM MST up reply actions
Sorry.
I will not bait you into supporting your arguments again.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 1, 2011 11:13 AM MST up reply actions
there were three likely suitors for CDI
Toronto, Seattle, and LA.
Toronto wanted CDI as a Hernandez-type bridge to their top prospects, and wouldn’t have paid much to obtain him
Seattle just traded for a catcher by shipping out a back end rotation type with no upside.
LA was the only candidate that had a serious shot and was willing to trade close value. Getting a former top 5 prospect from a respected farm who is 21 and with a full season of MLB experience under his belt? That is unlikely to be topped by other teams.
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Conversationally, no it isn't
I have the same criticism, but I also don’t have the time to sift through fangraphs and find a comp trade.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 11:23 AM MST up reply actions
But let's put it this way...
If DOD had packaged CDI with Ubaldo, could we have gotten Kipnis or Santana?
No.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 1, 2011 11:06 AM MST up reply actions
Also, Ubaldo wasn’t involved in this deal. That’s really odd to bring him up. Assuming that his value was Pomeranz, White, Gardner, you’re asking if we could have traded Ianetta for Santana or Kipnis. The answer to that is no.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 1, 2011 11:09 AM MST up reply actions
You don't understand my point...
If DOD had thought CDI expendable for 2012/13, why didn’t he do something about it in July when we made a much bigger trade? It’s conceivable that we could have landed a better haul if we had packaged CDI with U.
by GoRoxGo on Dec 1, 2011 11:11 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Because signing a replacement for him was kind of impossible in July?
Because Rosario was still getting another half season of minor league playing time in July?
There are plenty of reasons for not making a move midseason that you will make post-season.
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by Junction Rox on Dec 1, 2011 11:13 AM MST up reply actions
Trading U in July was a surrender to the season...
so may as well have brought up Rosario or other available catcher inside or outside organization after trading away CDI as well.
Who knows…..CDI was of interest to the Red Sox as was Ubaldo. Package them together and we could possibly have gotten a Lowrie and one young starter with upside. Or maybe we get more from Cleveland.
by GoRoxGo on Dec 1, 2011 11:15 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't suppose you'd happen to know
who we could have gotten for CDI then that would have made it worthwhile to rush Rosario or go with Alfonzo and some other AAAA type for the last half of the season?
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by Junction Rox on Dec 1, 2011 11:25 AM MST up reply actions
Saying "I wish we could've gotten better for Iannetta" doesn't imply not getting Hernandez and rushing Rosario
I’ve been having this off-site convo with Muzia about exactly this, and we seem to have agreed to disagree: I don’t see Chatwood putting up more than 2 years of service time before the Rockies NT him. Iannetta is very likely a steady 2-3 WAR catcher (that is, average to above average) with a full catching load.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 11:28 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
and yet Iannetta was unlikely to be here past the trade deadline 2012
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Regardless, I strongly believe he'd have been a Type B at least
and netted us a pick that could’ve easily turned into someone of Chatwood’s quality.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 11:46 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Do you think the new CBA
might have had an impact on the decision to trade him now? It seemed like the talk really heated up right around the time the agreement was reached?
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by Junction Rox on Dec 1, 2011 11:48 AM MST up reply actions
Definitely, at the very least it made Hernandez an attractive alternative.
As suddenly the equation didn’t involve the pick compensation that would have otherwise gone to the Reds.
And possibly in less compensation for CDI next year?
I have no idea if that’s true or not – not sure what compensation for him would have been under the old or new system…
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by Junction Rox on Dec 1, 2011 11:58 AM MST up reply actions
Is that what it is, Type B is going away?
I’m still lost on that. Some FAs got reclassified (obv) this offseason, so I didn’t know which FAs got comp and which didn’t.
I was under the impression B would stick around as the “no harm to the signing team” comp and only the cream of the crop would end up as the “surrender ur pickx”
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 11:48 AM MST up reply actions
No more Elias ratings whatsoever...
It’s all based on whether the player gets offered the sweet one season deal and then if they sign for big bucks elsewhere. With Iannetta’s 2013 option, the Rockies would be ineligible for compensation once they decline it.
ok, so it is just purely qualifying offers
I’m sure Muzia’s explained this to me and is hating me with a burning fire right now for having forgotten it.
Man, I liked Type B
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 11:56 AM MST up reply actions
the sort of fun ramification is that I actually expect to see more trades
of players that previously would have been subject to draft pick compensation.
trades ARE fun
JUST NOT INVOLVING MY FAVORITE PLAYER FOR TYLER FRIGGIN CHATWOOD DANGIT
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 12:05 PM MST up reply actions
his father dropped the camera while they were officially naming him on his birth certificate
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 12:08 PM MST up reply actions
No relation
To Chrone Friggins
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 1, 2011 12:33 PM MST up reply actions
It does if you're saying we should have done it midseason...
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by Junction Rox on Dec 1, 2011 11:35 AM MST up reply actions
Again, not really
dumping Ubaldo pretty much said “the season’s over”. The Rockies could’ve easily played Alfonzo and Pagnozzi (until Alfonzo got suspended) and just whatever other backup schlub needed to be played – the season was over at that point. It wouldn’t have forced a Rosario callup and wouldn’t have precluded a Hernandez signing.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 11:47 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
But that would have been exactly what I said
playing Alfonzo and another AAAA guy for half a season.
Rushing Rosario was the other alternative I mentioned. I never said they couldn’t have signed Hernandez now, just that they couldn’t have done it then.
And if they’re going to go with Alfonzo/Pagnozzi for half a season, there better be a significantly better return out there then than what they could get now. That’s the part that nobody has really demonstrated at this point…
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by Junction Rox on Dec 1, 2011 11:50 AM MST up reply actions
I was only addressing the "rushing Rosario" bit as far as things that might've changed
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 11:52 AM MST up reply actions
well that's all I meant to address anyhow
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 11:52 AM MST up reply actions
Sorry if I wasn't clear
what I was trying to say was that they would have to either rush Rosario OR go with a couple AAAA catchers for half a year if they dealt CDI at midseason. Even if they thought the trade was writing off the season, they weren’t so far buried that there was no possible cost to further weakening themselves.
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by Junction Rox on Dec 1, 2011 12:00 PM MST up reply actions
The Indians
would have no use for Iannetta at all given that Santana is much younger, much cheaper, and in all likelihood, a lot better. I might have tried to offer more to land Kipnis, but the truth is that we don’t have much to offer that’s going to entice the Indians to part with Kipnis along with Pom and White and the rest…
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Name a trade of the type your refer.
An above average catcher plus a redundant prospect for a proven MLB impact talent. You thought O’Dowd could do it, a lot of people seem to, so there must be some precedent out there that I’m missing.
Second, you’re apparently also looking at precedent for this sentence " I see that as unlikely since pitchers of Chatwood’s mold don’t suddenly find the strike zone and strikeout pitch, at least not at age 22 or 23," and since seeing this brought up a lot, I’ve also looked into it, and find the evidence shows there are several RH pitchers who do. Travor Cahill, Ian Kennedy and Chad Billingsley to name three with near even K/BB rates their rookie years.
I don’t know if Chatwood will fall into this camp, but I’m really trying to figure out where the camp that sees it as highly unlikely for a pitcher of this ilk to improve is coming from.
by Rox Girl on Dec 1, 2011 11:02 AM MST up reply actions 5 recs
I don’t know if Chatwood will fall into this camp, but I’m really trying to figure out where the camp that sees it as highly unlikely for a pitcher of this ilk to improve is coming from.
1000% agreed.
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to expand
Chatwood had a 64% GB rate and 4.37 FIP as a 20 year old in the Cal League.
He had a 51.1 GB% and a 4.02 FIP as a 20 year old in AA
His rates to that point said mid-rotation starter at the time, along with scouting reports that confirmed those projections. He had a 47% GB as a 21 year old in the majors and now his ceiling is #5 starter at best? I really don’t buy it.
There’s potential here, and while it’s not TOR like a Pomeranz, it’s a pitcher that you like having at the back end of your rotation. That’s valuable. We acquired him without making our 2012 team noticeably worse. That’s also valuable.
He’s not even close to a finished product right now and we shouldn’t judge him as such.
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This
Chatwood advancing from High A to the major leagues in 10 months is really being underplayed here, and it may be the most important point of all.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 1, 2011 11:17 AM MST up reply actions
we drafted Tyler Anderson this past year in the first round
and he’s very unlikely to make that jump in 18 months. As a college pitcher.
Chatwood was drafted out of high school.
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Sure, that's a good point....
but it doesn’t diminish the point that Chatwood is a fungible commodity. He could turn out well or badly, as just about ANY 21 year-old pitcher with a limited track record could do. The fact the Angels pushed him up to the show so fast is not an indicator of Chatwood’s potential standout talent. It’s an indicator of the Angels’ poor judgment.
by GoRoxGo on Dec 1, 2011 11:22 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
So let's just ignore the fact he was one of their highest rated prospects
let’s ignore the projections for him, let’s ignore the success he had the first half of the season after he was called up. There’s no reason to think that Chatwood is any good, clearly the only reason he reached the major leagues is because the Angels are The Stoopid…
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by Junction Rox on Dec 1, 2011 11:29 AM MST up reply actions
Not "Are the Stoopid"
“WERE the Stoopid”
From what I’ve read in the last 18 hours their IQ must have skyrocketed just before making this deal with the Rockies.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 1, 2011 11:32 AM MST up reply actions
Did I say he didn't have his moments?
No I didn’t. I said that he has never been considered TOR like a Cahill or Kennedy (in another post). He had 9 quality starts in his 25 total starts last year. That’s something. And his first half showed some flashes. Unfortunately, his total body of work showed he wasn’t an MLB-quality pitcher by the end of the season. He has that potential someday, as to Friedrich and a number of other young pitchers we have do. But he isn’t likelly to help our team much the next two years. That’s all I said in my original opinion post on this trade.
by GoRoxGo on Dec 1, 2011 11:34 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
But we got him essentially for free.
Our 2012 is not worse today because if it.
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Did I say DOD hurt our team?
Read my original opinion post again. I said he didn’t hurt us with the trade/signing, but neither did he help us for the next two years.
Having Chatwood for the next five years as an option certainly helps more than the fringe reliever we would have traded CDI for at the 2012 deadline.
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The scouting report on FanGraphs coming in to this year
had him peaking as high as a #2
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Did you see his BB/9 rates in the majors this year?
That ceiling has dropped to fringe starter
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by Muzia on Dec 1, 2011 11:37 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm pretty sure
we only acquired Chatwood to plunk Iannetta during interleague play.
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you mean nearly the exact same BB/9 that Doc posted as a 22yo
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Yeah, but Chatwood wasn’t a first round pick.
He was a mere second round pick.
Obviously garbage.
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Come on, that's just unfair
It’s not pure idiocy to not be thrilled with Chatwood.
Yeah, he could turn into something. So far his career suggests that he’s already turned into that something and it don’t get much better. It’s a short career though, so I personally am willing to concede that there is still upside, but upside and production are not the same thing.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 11:55 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
So far his career suggests that he’s already turned into that something and it don’t get much better.
I don’t see how this is so certain.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 1, 2011 11:56 AM MST up reply actions
I don't see how the alternative is so certain either
He’s being painted as a lock to stick for the next 5 years in the majors, and I just don’t see him avoiding a 1st Arb NT.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 11:57 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
He's 21?
He has less than 500 IP of pro experience?
He has good GB%?
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The age, GB%, and FB velo are good things, for sure
The K rate, BB rate, BABIP, LD% – those are bad things.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 12:02 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Not the alternative, the opposite…
There are many alternatives. My alternative is that he is a promising prospect who was rushed to the MLB level. He is a work in progress, and shows that he could develop into an MLB regular. Maybe not. But I don’t think it is very clear either way.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 1, 2011 12:01 PM MST up reply actions
it's not clear either way.
But we’re trying WAY too hard to find upside on this guy.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 12:03 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Equally,
But we’re trying WAY too hard to find downside on this guy.
That’s my point really.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 1, 2011 12:05 PM MST up reply actions
I don't think we have to try hard to find downside
Just look at his minor league numbers
walks everywhere
(he’s such an athlete, he walks everywhere! /rimshot)
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 12:07 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
as far as I'm concerned
this is less about Chatwood and more about our player development system. Chatwood has as many pros as he has cons but in my view, it’s really how we develop him that matters most. Can he be serviceable in our rotation right away? Maybe depending on how low one sets the bar for ‘serviceable’.
I see a guy (from an admittedly limited vantage) who needs practice and repetition in the minors to improve control and a guy who needs to either develop another pitch or become more comfortable using offspeed pitchers to better set up his fastball.
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We're trying WAY too hard to decide on this guy either way
Whether looking for upside or declaring him a DOA failure, we have now entered the inevitable, and always annoying “rush to judgement” phase of trade evaluation. One of my favorite offseason experiences, aside from Christmas, Thanksgiving and Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer…
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by Junction Rox on Dec 1, 2011 12:07 PM MST up reply actions
I like to think I've earned this.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 12:08 PM MST up reply actions
You know,
I was listening to Working Man yesterday. I jumped in during the instrumental break. I was really getting into it. Then Geddy Lee started singing…. totally ruined it for me.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 1, 2011 12:11 PM MST up reply actions
Not directed at you specifically
I think the interwebz in general has earned that comment from me over the years…
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by Junction Rox on Dec 1, 2011 12:11 PM MST up reply actions
okay, okay, I get you,
but tell me whether you think Chatwood will win his second Cy Young for the Rockies in 2016 or 2017? I was originally going 2016, but then I thought “Pomeranz,” so now I think it might be 2017.
by Rox Girl on Dec 1, 2011 12:11 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Depends on when he wins his first?
I’m guessing you think 2015? I had Chacin slotted for the third of his back-to-back-to-back CYA’s that year. If I’m wrong about that, I’ll say 2017, but if I’m right then I think Chatwood is going to have to wait until 2019 to get his second. (I totally agree with you about Pom in 2016, and think he will get his second in 2018, a year before Chatwood)
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by Junction Rox on Dec 1, 2011 12:15 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
See, I was thinking something like that too,
but then I saw how in 1979, Willie Stargell and Keith Hernandez split the MVP, so it suddenly just became a question of which Rockies pitcher shares it with Chacin in 2015, it’s got to be either Pom or Chatwood or maybe one of the Rex Brothers.
by Rox Girl on Dec 1, 2011 12:20 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
See, I think instead of splitting the CYA
they’ll just give Chacin the Cy, and the Brothers will split MVP.
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by Junction Rox on Dec 1, 2011 12:22 PM MST up reply actions
See?
Totally overly buying into the upside
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 12:33 PM MST up reply actions
there are no locks
Franklin Morales wasn’t a lock, neither was Chris Carpenter one stopped walking guys the other did not.
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Halladay literally the best pitcher in baseball
had a 4.9 K/9 and a 4.8 BB/9 as a 22YO, then a 5.9 K/9 to pair with a 5.8 K/9 as a 23 yo. It is a little early to draw conclusions about a guy who our org would have had in high A last year.
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
21 yo MLB ready pitchers are a fungible commodity?
this guy is 3 1/2 years younger than Juan Nicasio, 2 years younger than Edwar Cabrera acting as if we know who he is definitely going to be over the next 5 years based on his stats this year is silly. Doc Halladay had a 1.13 K/BB over his first 231 innings as a 21-23 yo pitcher in Toronto, no wonder O’Dowd didn’t want to trade Astacio for him
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by TomCat009 on Dec 1, 2011 11:35 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
He wasn't really "MLB ready"...
but was brought up by the Angels anyway. In the fullness of time, he showed why he should have been in the minors last season.
by GoRoxGo on Dec 1, 2011 11:40 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
and yet put up a reasonable GB rate and more QS than you would expect from a kid with his experience level
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you are talking about two pitchers
in his first 19 games he was 6-6 with a 3.64 over 111 innings with 7 HR allowed, in his final 8 games he was 0-8 with an 8.8ERA .400BABIP with 7 HR over 30 innings. If he just got tired(seems reasonable) then he can stil be a 3-4 starter easily.
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Not going to listen too you two this offseason
You two sold me on Jose Lopez so I need proof before I buy into your line of thinking
Uh....
I was the one that bet RG against Jose Lopez.
I detested the Lopez trade.
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11-13-1
Not out of it yet. Stefan Elliott is gonna be a stud.
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Considering the youth - they are going to be fun to watch in a year or so
How good is that 2009 draft, damn.
for the Rockies and Avs both
Last night was a sigh of relief. If they can keep some consistency….
Ah, who am I kidding. They have plenty of talent and yet they always disappoint me.
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last night was the first avs game i have been to in 10 years
it sure was fun. i might have to hit up another game or two this season especially if stub hub seats stay that cheap
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You are so good at taking my thoughts and expressing them
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 1, 2011 11:06 AM MST up reply actions
That's great to cite 3 good pitchers who share that commonality.
How about the dozens each season who don’t? Who go back to the minors? Who are Greg Reynolds?
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 11:25 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Greg Reynolds wasn’t 21, suffered multiple injuries, and didn’t hve major league success. Bad choice to make your comparison.
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I know that it's not a good comp directly
But he’ll end up lumped with those types of depth guys who we were hoping to never see in the majors again.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 11:50 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
would you rather have him, Clay Mortensen, Alan Johnson, or Greg Smith
I just don’t see him as one of those type players
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Him or Mortensen.
Alan Johnson needed to be saved for The Big Trade™
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 12:04 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Those three also dwarf Chatwood in size, one of Chatwood's biggest weaknesses according to many scouting reports
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 1, 2011 11:33 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Trevor Bauer?
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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Are you saying Tommy Field = Dustin Pedroia?
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 1, 2011 11:42 AM MST up reply actions
Naturally.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
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I think pitcher size is like the most overrated thing. The fact that Chatwood isn’t 6’5" probably just means he’s an undervalued resource and improves the deal for us marginally.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
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Jason Hirsh was a big, big man.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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with a tibula made out of balsa wood.
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 1, 2011 11:57 AM MST up reply actions
Mark Prior
Mark Mulder, Chris Young, whoever. I get the advantages height could afford a pitcher, but I’ve never seen anything conclusive about how if a guy is 5’11" he is significantly less likely to withstand the rigors of pitching. And yet it’s taken as fact.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
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Tim Lincecum is going to literally fly apart in his first MLB start, ya know...
that’s why you want to go with a big strapping guy like Greg Reynolds who will be durable for a long time…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
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by Junction Rox on Dec 1, 2011 12:03 PM MST up reply actions
uh hi Doug Flutie would like a word
I’d like to see Chatwood drop kick an extra point
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 11:55 AM MST up reply actions
I can do that actually
I own our high school record for an actual FG too
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 1, 2011 12:00 PM MST up reply actions
sick
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 12:04 PM MST up reply actions
tight
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 1, 2011 12:07 PM MST up reply actions
word
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 12:08 PM MST up reply actions
dope
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
PRMLB: The Brew Crew
bitchin
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
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by Junction Rox on Dec 1, 2011 12:12 PM MST up reply actions
ill
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
PRMLB: The Brew Crew
kewl
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 1, 2011 12:16 PM MST up reply actions
gnarley
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 1, 2011 12:15 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
ballin
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 1, 2011 12:18 PM MST up reply actions
swell
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 12:49 PM MST up reply actions
+1
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
(pounds fist on chest twice)
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 1, 2011 12:12 PM MST up reply actions
Daniel Cabrera...
He’s the big trainwreck scenario…
The “dozens” each season who don’t actually amount to a bunch that wind up in the bullpen, or marginally useful BOR starters. There will likely be MLB value from Chatwood.
The Bullpen could be a potential, and I'll back off of it if he can stick SOMEWHERE
but the value of a low-leverage bullpen arm is pretty low.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 11:50 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
True, but the value of a low leverage bullpen arm that other teams covet as a starter could be high.
He actually becomes sort of a Josh Outman for the Rockies right now, and if we are able to sign an Oswalt, a lot of teams will look to Colorado as an option to fill their own rotation needs. I like having so many near MLB ready starters, we can pick the most valuable to keep and still get something back for those that don’t measure up.
My beef isn't so much with Chatwood HIMSELF (despite my commentary thus far)
but more the fact that we traded Chris Iannetta for him.
I admit this is not an objective opinion
I’m with GrG in that I wish we’d gotten a better return. I’m also remiss in presenting a surefire offer for it.
I like Chatwood as depth. But the only reason I’d like him more than, say, Mortensen, is because of his age. We traded a minor league filler guy for Mortensen, and we traded a starting MLB catcher for Chatwood.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 12:00 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I know that you mentioned this in the Rockpile,
but do you think that the money freed up by these trades makes us a more legitimate contender for Oswalt, or will he likely still get a deal outside of our price range?
I did not see us trading any portion of Wiggy's contract,
And I should have foreseen an Iannetta trade more than I did, as the writing has been on the wall for some time. The Rockies definitely have more money to spend than they did a couple of weeks ago.
That said, I’m still thinking Oswalt’s doubtful.
by Rox Girl on Dec 1, 2011 12:25 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
As I said above, RG......
there are too many permutations and hypotheticals (that I don’t wish to go into right now) of package deals that could be created by a solid GM that would net us at least an average proven MLB player. BTW, I didn’t say “impact talent”, just average. Will Chatwood be that “difference-maker”? No indication that he will, though it’s surely possible. Then again, CDI isn’t apparently a difference-maker either and we got Hernandez. I repeat….“Meh”!
Kennedy and Cahill were TOR prospects at one time or another in the minors, and I don’t think Chatwood ever rose to that level. He’s shown more hittability (166 hits in 142 innings) to go with his 4.5BB/9 last season to have a quick metamorphosis. If he had beeen difficult to hit with those control issues, I’d be more optimistic. But, from my experience in following the game, expecting quick improvement from a 22-year old who allows hits and walks while not K-ing a lot of hitters is a low probability bet. As for his age 24-26 seasons, I agree that he has some upside.
by GoRoxGo on Dec 1, 2011 11:28 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Kennedy was never a TOR prospect in the minors, outside of the Yankees hype machine at least.
He slipped so far in the draft despite dominating at USC because he was seen MOR or BOR by many. Cahill also had plenty of detractors, although there were a few stats oriented people who saw TOR potential. I think you’re engaging revisionist history to say that either were thought as much more than Chatwood in their minor league careers.
As other people are saying, the answer about too many hypotheticals and permutations sounds like a cop-out. I think what you and other people in this camp want is something like the trade that Anthopolous made to get Colby Rasmus last season, but then again he wanted to do the same sort of thing to bring Iannetta to Toronto. The number of GM’s that are willing to release players that would have helped the Rockies are few, and most that I can think of don’t have a catching need.
What part of "I don't have time" is being missed...
Trying to make up fictional trades to satisfy your needs to have perhaps 150 more posts on this thread today is not something I want to engage in. It’s a waste of time, which I have little of right now, and I can never even prove such a hypothetical trade is doable. Such discussions, I find out, lead to more people arguing with me. So I am not copping out. Just refusing to go on that laborious tangent.
Kennedy and Cahill both showed better minor-league results than Chatwood, and were generally higher up on GM wish lists than Chatwood was. Now I have to leave.
by GoRoxGo on Dec 1, 2011 11:48 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
We're just looking for proof.
If you don’t want to provide it, that’s fine. But then you should’t be shocked if we
HONESTLYbelieve that DOD did ok here.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 1, 2011 11:51 AM MST up reply actions
You can't prove a hypothetical...
and you are entitled to any opinion you HONESTLY wish to have. Gotta go.
You're mixing the definition of the verb with the definition of the noun.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/proof
Proof is just some sort of support or evidence. That’s all. You can provide that for a hypothetical idea.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 1, 2011 12:04 PM MST up reply actions
To be fair this is how I felt about the Holliday Trade at the time it was made
I thought oh great a LH OF who can’t hit, an injury prone reliever and a AAAA starter, I could have made that trade. Smith I was right about, Street has been better in stretches that I thought he would be, and Cargo turned into Cargo so I was dead wrong.
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
I poo-pooed the Ramirez for JDLR trade...
and wasn’t excited about Hammell from TB either, so these trades can work out. I just have to hope DOD’s scouts on whom he’s relying here see something in this kid that is not apparent in the stats.
Seriously.
This kid has pitched 231 innings about A+ Ball. 3/5 of that was in the majors. Hammering away at the stats on that kind of sample size is shaky ground. It’s not saying that he is an elite prospect regardless, but this isn’t a dumpster dive.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 1, 2011 11:41 AM MST up reply actions
Oh hey, Magic Kingdom
I’ll be living there in a month. And now I have a reason to go to Angels games as well, hooray!
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by oo_nrb on Dec 1, 2011 10:51 AM MST via mobile reply actions
I might be headed that way by the end of next year if I attend Chapman for grad school.
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"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Dec 1, 2011 11:09 AM MST up reply actions
My final, final, final words on Mr. Iannetta......
In 2011, Chris Iannetta hit .172 on the road with a .266 slugging percentage.
You can blame Jim Tracy, you can raise up the base on balls to new heights of statistical importance, you can contort yourself with statistics any way you wish, but the bottom line is this:
Those numbers are horrible
That we were able to trade him for a pitcher who has thrown 142 major league innings before he was old enough to order a beer is a very happy surprise, IMO.
But, know what? Doesn’t matter. It’s done. And now I’m prepared to lay down my arms in the great catching war, link arms with my brothers and sisters and sing Kumbaya until pitchers and catchers report.
Until the great second base wars of 2012 begin. :)
by evers44 on Dec 1, 2011 11:06 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
Hopefully we see the Prado Pact
come before anyone gets seriously injured in the Great 2b Wars of 2012
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 1, 2011 11:09 AM MST up reply actions
Let's hope so....
otherwise we may need UN peacekeepers in here to keep the Chris Nelson and Jon Herrera forces apart, in what would surely be the most depressing online battle of all time.
by evers44 on Dec 1, 2011 11:15 AM MST up reply actions 2 recs
I honestly can't wait to find out
whether the Nelson forces would be overcome by an overwhelming malaise before the Herrera forces fell in the face of crippling ennui, or if they would be able to summon a protective shield of moderate disinterest to sufficiently protect them long enough to achieve “victory”…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
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by Junction Rox on Dec 1, 2011 11:33 AM MST up reply actions
This made me laugh.
That would certainly be a pretty depressing and likely mostly pointless online battle.
"surely be the most depressing online battle of all time"
That is really funny.
Funny thing about Iannetta's home/road splits
They were very even through his 2008 season. It’s only been the last three years where they’ve turned a 180 and become completely outrageous. I wonder if something changed going into 09 to cause this?
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 1, 2011 11:11 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Of course it might all be in BABIP too
Those numbers year to year are as wild as you’ll find.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 1, 2011 11:12 AM MST up reply actions
Right wing media at it again
Let’s keep politics out of this!
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by Cargo'es Yard on Dec 1, 2011 11:13 AM MST up reply actions
Unsolved Mysteries could have a field day with some Rockies hitters
Garret Atkins? Stewie? CDI on the road?
I blame alien intervention.
Don't forget Brad Hawpe
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 1, 2011 11:18 AM MST up reply actions
It just wouldn't be the same without Robert Stack.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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I think Jimmy Hoffa
is actually buried under Coors Field, and his magic powers cause mediocre players to hit really well when in close proximity of his corpse.
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 1, 2011 11:23 AM MST up reply actions
So instead of finding Jimma Hoffa
We found Dinger? That is the first bad trade this organization ever made.
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by Cargo'es Yard on Dec 1, 2011 11:29 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
That's perhaps the most specific supernatural power ever.
But a pretty good one.
So, can we perhaps dig up the corpse and take it on the road with us?
As long as we can find a way to harness the powers to
ONLY affect Rockies players, sure!
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 1, 2011 12:39 PM MST up reply actions
Correlation
So…JIM TRACY
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 1, 2011 11:14 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
It was in jest
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 1, 2011 11:18 AM MST up reply actions
No.
Jim Tracy used his witch powers to make CDI bad on the road.
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 1, 2011 11:18 AM MST up reply actions 2 recs
That was just so he could get a new contract and leave us stuckwith him for years
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 1, 2011 12:31 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
He probably platooned hotel roommates and stuff
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 1, 2011 11:52 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
He always put Iannetta with the snoring guy so he wouldn't get enough sleep.
The off-season sucks.
That is all.
Hypothetically speaking
Who do you want our manager to be in 2013?
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
Tito
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 12:00 PM MST up reply actions
For real?
Think his laid back “Francoma” personality fits?
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 1, 2011 12:01 PM MST up reply actions
will he bat the pitcher then pull him?
Or warm lefties until they’ve thrown an equivalent 400IP per season?
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 12:04 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
and then eat chicken with betancourt in the club house
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 1, 2011 12:06 PM MST up reply actions
Beer is good for baseball players
its a long season, it builds cohesion
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 1, 2011 12:08 PM MST up reply actions
Thigns happen
people go in slumps…just like a lot of other things, beer is the first thing to get blamed…
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 1, 2011 12:11 PM MST up reply actions
It's the cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems.
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I thought it was proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy?
The off-season sucks.
That is all.
I just hate him so much, Rosenort
It keeps me up at night (no)
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 12:06 PM MST up reply actions
/smh
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 1, 2011 12:04 PM MST up reply actions
/nmh
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 12:05 PM MST up reply actions
Ideally, the Rockies go to the playoffs in 2012 and Tracy gets rewarded with a new deal.
Failing that, I’d like to see someone from the “bright young guy” category instead of the “steady old pro” one.
ideally
rox get off to a 10-20 start, fire Tracy, hire someone else to take them to the NL West championship.
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 1, 2011 12:02 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
how this could ever be considered anything other than ideal is beyond me.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
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and that someone else?
#FI#24MGR
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 1, 2011 12:06 PM MST up reply actions
LDMM4MGR
At least I’ll smash the Gatorade cooler in frustration.
"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"
/it is a new beginning, right?
by The Lodo Magic Man on Dec 1, 2011 12:23 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
'bout to go all Lou Piniella up in here
pfft, you think a manager doesn’t still run the team from the clubhouse even after he’s been tossed?
"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"
/it is a new beginning, right?
by The Lodo Magic Man on Dec 1, 2011 12:28 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Ideally, Tracy is not the manager at the beginning of the season.
"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"
/it is a new beginning, right?
by The Lodo Magic Man on Dec 1, 2011 12:18 PM MST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Baseball and bright young guy
that means they are under the age of 60 but older than 50?
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 1, 2011 12:03 PM MST up reply actions
I’d like myself to manage the team. I could use the money.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
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Nonono
we have to be co-GMs like Epstein and Hoyer.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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Agreed. Call DOD and tell him he’s fired, but we can transition him to some symbolic position that ultimately holds no power – the Medvedev position if you will.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
PRMLB: The Brew Crew
You mean like... Broncos GM?
we can transition him to some symbolic position that ultimately holds no power
by Northsider1964 on Dec 1, 2011 12:46 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
likely Resolution
but I think this season of OOTP will really determine who goes where.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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do you like the spotlight?
I like being behind the scenes more.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
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I'm a good public speaker
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
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on account of me teaching
I can hold my own in that dept. too. Okay, whatever, dsmba’s plan works. Or we just drink Presidente and whoever passes out first is not it.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
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\m/
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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he might have better hair than me
it’ll be a race for the ages!
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
PRMLB: The Brew Crew
MIGHT?!?!?
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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Have them sitting in a room
then ask a kid to go in and deliver a note to the man in charge.
That will be the one with ultimate power.
by dsmba on Dec 1, 2011 12:08 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
This is very good.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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that kid can be Chatwood since he’s like 13 or whatever.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
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too short to reach the doorknob
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
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by Junction Rox on Dec 1, 2011 12:17 PM MST up reply actions
you guys are gonna make me a peanut vendor, aren't you
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 12:07 PM MST up reply actions
you can be in charge of...uh...concessions?
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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you can
be vice-president of surliness. Also, your halloween costume will be mandatory wardrobe.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
PRMLB: The Brew Crew
She has my vote
but only if she agrees to hire me as executive vice president – tornadoughs and pretzels.
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
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by Junction Rox on Dec 1, 2011 12:19 PM MST up reply actions
We’re still configuring the org. charts. We’ll discuss some of this in a press release soon. Muzia and I truly appreciate everyone’s continued support and patience throughout this transition though.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
PRMLB: The Brew Crew
You have to TRUST the organization!
"Surgeons have determined that doing the wave will, yes, will cause tears to the suprapinatus muscle and the infraspinatus muscle from the throwing of an individual's arms rapidly into the air. In addition, any children doing the wave will be sold to the circus. Do NOT do the wave in the ballpark. Doing the wave is safe at pro football games and Miley Cyrus concerts.
-scoreboard announcement at Ranger Ballpark in Arlington via Baseball Nation.
I would so wear that costume if hired
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 12:44 PM MST up reply actions
welcome aboard!
see, I even put the welcome into language you can understand.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
PRMLB: The Brew Crew
hyar
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 1:21 PM MST up reply actions
Keith Law
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
fi#2
Altar Boy in the Church of Santo Ubaldo
"...buffalo chicken is a fine anti-depressant, after all." -UZ
"... One order of buffalo wings, please..." -Yokel, after July 30, 2011
by Yokel on Dec 1, 2011 12:46 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
up to two votes.
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 1, 2011 1:27 PM MST up reply actions
Good news: You only need 2!
Bad News: They both need to come from the Monforts!
"Surgeons have determined that doing the wave will, yes, will cause tears to the suprapinatus muscle and the infraspinatus muscle from the throwing of an individual's arms rapidly into the air. In addition, any children doing the wave will be sold to the circus. Do NOT do the wave in the ballpark. Doing the wave is safe at pro football games and Miley Cyrus concerts.
-scoreboard announcement at Ranger Ballpark in Arlington via Baseball Nation.
Jason Giambi
Jason Giambi for player-manager in 2012!
How the world will end in 2012: George of the Roses builds a Machine that Pommels everyone with La Violencia during Whiteouts.
Sal Fasano's Mustache
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Dec 1, 2011 1:11 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
So Laws Top 50 under 25 years is out
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
And fortunately
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 1, 2011 12:38 PM MST up reply actions
Another Braves thing (sorry, folks)
Love how Brandon Belt will be 24 next year, has done nothing, and is ranked six spots above a soon-to-be 22 Freddie Freeman.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
Wow
very nice write up i enjoyed reading that. The question i have and i don’t know if i misunderstood this or not but did you say Chatwood is the only starting pitcher the Rockies are looking to add?
MOZGOD Enthusiast Member 71
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@Garrett_Olsen
absolutely not
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one, but trading wiggy to the phillies totally makes it okay
PRMLB Arizona Diamondbacks GM
okay good
i was a bit nervous there for a minute
MOZGOD Enthusiast Member 71
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@Garrett_Olsen
by NastyNessy71 on Dec 1, 2011 12:39 PM MST up reply actions
he's just another horse in the stable at this point
cream rises to the top
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
what's the scoop on
chatwood?
MOZGOD Enthusiast Member 71
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@Garrett_Olsen
by NastyNessy71 on Dec 1, 2011 12:39 PM MST up reply actions
read above
the jury’s out…on Mathwood
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
thanks
MOZGOD Enthusiast Member 71
Original Thugget Loyalists Member 71
@Garrett_Olsen
by NastyNessy71 on Dec 1, 2011 12:43 PM MST up reply actions
ha cha cha cha
muzina with the cross
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 12:44 PM MST up reply actions
well he went 6-11 last year so he pretty much sucks
…i kid i kid
PRMLB - Tampa Bay Rays
;)
if he throws above 95 I’ll still like him
MOZGOD Enthusiast Member 71
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@Garrett_Olsen
by NastyNessy71 on Dec 1, 2011 12:43 PM MST up reply actions
hmm
interesting… i like power pitchers over nasty pitchers.
MOZGOD Enthusiast Member 71
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@Garrett_Olsen
by NastyNessy71 on Dec 1, 2011 12:48 PM MST up reply actions
.........
What?
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 1, 2011 1:06 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
just smile and nod dude
smile and nod
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one, but trading wiggy to the phillies totally makes it okay
PRMLB Arizona Diamondbacks GM
please don't do this
I completely disagree with Nessy on this topic as well, but there’s no need to make them feel stupid.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 1:21 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I think what he's actually saying is that he likes
pitchers with high velo in their arsenal more than he likes the guys who rely mostly on tricks (changing speeds, late movement on pitches that move slower) to get hitters out.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 1, 2011 2:27 PM MST up reply actions
He can throw 95, yes, but he doesn't really profile as a strikeout pitcher if that's what you're thinking.
Works down in the zone with a fastball, plus curve but he won’t be able to rely on it with us. Walks are a problem but there’s time to fix that. Fairly good at keeping the long ball down is another plus.
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Dec 1, 2011 12:48 PM MST up reply actions
do you guys ever
question Apodaca? (Sorry for the spelling)
MOZGOD Enthusiast Member 71
Original Thugget Loyalists Member 71
@Garrett_Olsen
by NastyNessy71 on Dec 1, 2011 12:49 PM MST up reply actions
(you spelled it right)
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one, but trading wiggy to the phillies totally makes it okay
PRMLB Arizona Diamondbacks GM
haha
nice… that usually doesn’t happen
MOZGOD Enthusiast Member 71
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@Garrett_Olsen
by NastyNessy71 on Dec 1, 2011 12:50 PM MST up reply actions
you spelled that one right
And yes, we do. But he has a good track record of working with groundball-first pitchers (see: Fogg, Josh; Marquis, Jason) and making them somewhat usable again
That said, I wonder if Cook would find a couple more years in the sun under Dave Duncan
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 12:51 PM MST up reply actions
Basically this.
Apodaca isn’t an automatic save but he has demonstrated he has more than enough influence to give just about everyone a chance to succeed. That said, when it comes to Chatwood, he might be pitching in the minors and working with the minor league coaches more than Apodaca himself.
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Dec 1, 2011 12:53 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
interesting
MOZGOD Enthusiast Member 71
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@Garrett_Olsen
by NastyNessy71 on Dec 1, 2011 12:54 PM MST up reply actions
The Row is divided as you can see above
Biggest positives: His age (22 on opening day), his fastball velocity, and being ranked the Angels #2 propect going into the season by both John Sickels and Baseball America.
Biggest negatives: His awful 4.7 K/9 rate, 4.5 BB/9 rate and his ugly ERA, FIP, and ERA+ numbers from last season.
You just have to pick which one of these buckets you put more weight into.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 1, 2011 12:45 PM MST up reply actions
Tim
Lincecum
MOZGOD Enthusiast Member 71
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@Garrett_Olsen
by NastyNessy71 on Dec 1, 2011 12:47 PM MST up reply actions
Umm he's 6-11
That’s almost 7 feet! And he’s 21, maybe he’ll keep growing.
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 1, 2011 12:47 PM MST up reply actions 3 recs
Positive: Acquired in exchange for St. Iannetta
Negative: Stupid ugly face and is terrible at everything ever
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 12:51 PM MST up reply actions
Positive: last name ends in wood
Negative: last name starts with chat
by Rox Girl on Dec 1, 2011 12:52 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
If only his name was Matt...
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 1, 2011 12:53 PM MST up reply actions
That would be the awesomest Rockies pitcher's name ever -
Mattwood
The off-season sucks.
That is all.
Matthew Mattwood
Middle name Joshua.
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Dec 1, 2011 12:55 PM MST up reply actions
At least I correspond to the positive part here.
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Dec 1, 2011 12:54 PM MST up reply actions
Positive: he projected as a college CF, so
we have a pitcher who can pinch run for Giambi for the next five years.
Negative: we have a pitcher who can pinch run for Giambi for the next five years.
by Northsider1964 on Dec 1, 2011 12:58 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Is Giambi somehow posthumously making it on base?
He’ll be like 107 in 5 years.
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 1, 2011 12:59 PM MST up reply actions 3 recs
but his better cybernetic parts will only be two years old.
He was always on the cutting edge of performance enhancement, I don’t see why that should change.
by Rox Girl on Dec 1, 2011 1:01 PM MST up reply actions 5 recs
Spit-take.
Altar Boy in the Church of Santo Ubaldo
"...buffalo chicken is a fine anti-depressant, after all." -UZ
"... One order of buffalo wings, please..." -Yokel, after July 30, 2011
In the early innings, yes
In the 9th, his post-death OBP should remain about the same.
by Northsider1964 on Dec 1, 2011 1:02 PM MST up reply actions
Since when does Tracy use a PH in early innings?
9th inning only.
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 1, 2011 1:30 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I would say he's used Herrera earlier,
but I don’t think Jonny meets the qualifications to be called a pinch “hitter.”
More of a pinch swinger...
"Surgeons have determined that doing the wave will, yes, will cause tears to the suprapinatus muscle and the infraspinatus muscle from the throwing of an individual's arms rapidly into the air. In addition, any children doing the wave will be sold to the circus. Do NOT do the wave in the ballpark. Doing the wave is safe at pro football games and Miley Cyrus concerts.
-scoreboard announcement at Ranger Ballpark in Arlington via Baseball Nation.
pinch ground baller
PRMLB - Tampa Bay Rays
just a pinch between your cheek and gum.
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 1, 2011 1:35 PM MST up reply actions
pinch ground out to the right sider
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 1:36 PM MST up reply actions
HEY!
NO TALKING ABOUT TEBOW IN THE ROCKPILE!
/trust me, I learned my lesson ;-)
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 1, 2011 1:00 PM MST up reply actions
IDK
He keeps coming up in my chats with Jesus.
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 1, 2011 1:09 PM MST up reply actions
I thought we were talking about Doug Flutie...
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 1:07 PM MST up reply actions
i thought we were talking about mike vick...
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one, but trading wiggy to the phillies totally makes it okay
PRMLB Arizona Diamondbacks GM
I thought we were talking about Aaron Rodgers
Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
I thought we were talking about John Elway.
Altar Boy in the Church of Santo Ubaldo
"...buffalo chicken is a fine anti-depressant, after all." -UZ
"... One order of buffalo wings, please..." -Yokel, after July 30, 2011
I thought we were talking about Brett Fa-vre
Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
I thought we were talking about Brett Tanos
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 1:21 PM MST up reply actions
I thought we were talking about Mad Max
Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
I thought we were talking about Max Scherzer...
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
I thought we were talking about Bill Clinton
Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
In the Rockpile?
That’s just silly….
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
thanks
i understand that a lot more than the numbers haha anyways how hard does he throw and what are his pitches? If you know?
MOZGOD Enthusiast Member 71
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by NastyNessy71 on Dec 1, 2011 12:47 PM MST up reply actions
His best pitch is the sinker
He throws it 91-93 mph.
He also uses a 4 seam FB often that he hits 96 on fairly regularly, except for the velo, this is an otherwise average pitch.
His second best pitch is the curveball, which is still developing and lacks command.
His fourth pitch is a change-up, also average, but a bit more promising than the 4-seamer because it’s got a decent velocity difference from the FB’s. He just needs to learn how to utilize it better.
he's 21?
Too bad the Nuggets are back and playing or I would suggest Chatwood work with Steve Hess for a few weeks and get a little muscle on him, maybe raise that fastball up a little higher… he still has time to get stronger. Sounds promising… i like the sinker at that speed as well. No change up?
MOZGOD Enthusiast Member 71
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@Garrett_Olsen
by NastyNessy71 on Dec 1, 2011 12:52 PM MST up reply actions
Muscle doesn't mean velocity always, or even often
It’s complex, involving strength, flexibility, arm path, natural tendon strength etc.
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 1, 2011 1:03 PM MST up reply actions
You're drinking horse milk?
Altar Boy in the Church of Santo Ubaldo
"...buffalo chicken is a fine anti-depressant, after all." -UZ
"... One order of buffalo wings, please..." -Yokel, after July 30, 2011
gross, right?
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Speaking of gross horse things
Apparently the USDA as approved the selling of pre-packaged horse meat. This is not a joke.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/nationnow/2011/12/peta-horse-slaughter.html
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
horse meat is common in French cooking.
well, okay, so that’s not as true anymore, but it is common in French Canadian cooking.
True but here in the US, not so much
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
at least according to that article, the ban has only been in place since 2007
PRMLB - Tampa Bay Rays
From what I thought I understood
there wasn’t really a ban on the sale of horse, there was a ban on inspecting horse slaughter facilities. Of course, you can’t sell meat for human consumption unless it’s from an inspected facility, so effectively the sale was banned, just not officially. What I thought happened is that they just reinstated the inspections. Which sounds great, until somebody says “horseburgers, anybody?”
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
I have heard
that horse is better than Beef or Elk
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
I grew up on elk
Love it. Never bought a package of beef until I was in college
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 1, 2011 3:14 PM MST up reply actions
me too,
clearly elk meat fuels intellect. It would explain why my brain has atrophied since going to USC.
just ask Clint Barmes, he'll tell you.
by Rox Girl on Dec 1, 2011 3:26 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe that's why I failed a class my first semester in college
Damn cafeteria
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 1, 2011 3:31 PM MST up reply actions
yeah thats what the article talked about
not an official ban, just stop funding the inspections
PRMLB - Tampa Bay Rays
Sickels' end of the year review on Chatwood
2) Tyler Chatwood, RHP, Grade B [Note: preseason grade]: 4.07 ERA with 67/61 K/BB in 128 major league innings, 138 hits. The components don’t support the ERA, but he was pushed to the majors with almost no Triple-A experience, and overall has held his own.
Sickels tends to overreact a bit less than the KLaw types.
Normally when you get a #2 prospect from someone’s system like this it’s met with more positive reviews.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 1, 2011 1:12 PM MST up reply actions
that's part of my reason for having pause
also the stupid face and terribleness and not being Iannetta.
/totall rational
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 1:22 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
i figured out his stupid face
he is the Handsome Pete version of Mike Napoli’s Krusty the Clown
2011 - not even light can escape
for a second I thought you were referencing Nice Pete
and I was amazed at how you crossed from The Simpsons to a totally creepy webcomic character in one sentence.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 1:30 PM MST up reply actions
Y'arr that was a quarter, he'll be doing that for hours...
"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"
/it is a new beginning, right?
by The Lodo Magic Man on Dec 1, 2011 2:39 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Pure sodium reacts less than KLaw.
Altar Boy in the Church of Santo Ubaldo
"...buffalo chicken is a fine anti-depressant, after all." -UZ
"... One order of buffalo wings, please..." -Yokel, after July 30, 2011
well this was an inspired rockpile
and the order of things dictates tomorrow will be filled with more nonsense than substance
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one, but trading wiggy to the phillies totally makes it okay
PRMLB Arizona Diamondbacks GM
hey, I have lots of substance things to write about Iannetta
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 12:45 PM MST up reply actions
oh the article will be fine
but the comments will be all drivel
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one, but trading wiggy to the phillies totally makes it okay
PRMLB Arizona Diamondbacks GM
drivel
drivel drivel drivel drivel drivel drivel drivel drivel drivel
drivel drivel drivel drivel drivel drivel drivel drivel drivel
The off-season sucks.
That is all.
And vitriol!
Don’t forget vitriol!
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
And Oldfoagie is loading for bear.
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 1, 2011 1:32 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
For being the slow week before the meetings
This sure has been a fun active week…of comments.
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 1, 2011 1:03 PM MST reply actions
I'd like to be back at the point where I can contribute
Meaningful comments.
Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
Matt Eddy at BA says there's something the Rox could fix in Chatwood to help his poor control
scouts don’t like the short, stabbing takeaway in Chatwood’s delivery nor his mature, 6-foot frame. The mechanical blemish may be a contributing factor to his poor command in the high minors, where he has struck out just 50 and walked 38 in 90 innings at Double-A and Triple-A.
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 1, 2011 1:29 PM MST reply actions
haha linky dink?
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one, but trading wiggy to the phillies totally makes it okay
PRMLB Arizona Diamondbacks GM
Skidamarink
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 1, 2011 1:36 PM MST up reply actions
call marshall
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 1:31 PM MST up reply actions
nah, hes too busy running away from taxis
PRMLB - Tampa Bay Rays
and slippin on MCDonalds wrappers
while accidentally punching his wife
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 1, 2011 1:36 PM MST up reply actions
marshall mathers?
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
what about slim shady?
PRMLB - Tampa Bay Rays
Even worse.
Eminem or whatever name he goes by == not very good.
Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
I can live with that.
If everyone liked the same thing, everyone would be a Yankees fan.
Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
If everyone liked the same thing, everyone nobody would be a Yankees fan.
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 1, 2011 2:07 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
No way. Eminem is the best.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 1, 2011 3:46 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Serious bias, man.
There is no denying how good Eminem is. Seriously. Even if he went commercial, he is very good.
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 1, 2011 2:16 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed
I’m not the biggest fan of rap, and he’s got talent
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 1, 2011 2:17 PM MST up reply actions
Kendrick Lamar makes Eminem sound like a Dick and Jane book.
I am also really biased.
Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
Yes.
I probably like rap almost as much as you. I’m not a huge Eminem fan. But he is very good.
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com
yea
It’s kind of like saying Jimmy Paige was a crappy guitarist because you don’t like Zeppelin. I’m not really an Em fan but when the dude’s on, he’s among the best in the game.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
PRMLB: The Brew Crew
Here's the thing
I listen to a lot of different rap and hip-hop. Eminem is average at best, as is Jay-Z. They seem like the best because they were both in the right place at the right time. I know that is all part of fame and fortune.
But as lyricists go Eminem peaked in 98 or 99, and Jay-Z has never written anything of his own.
Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
interesting take
i would argue that eminem is even better now than he ever was before
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one, but trading wiggy to the phillies totally makes it okay
PRMLB Arizona Diamondbacks GM
i'd say "not afraid" is his best song
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one, but trading wiggy to the phillies totally makes it okay
PRMLB Arizona Diamondbacks GM
Eminem is not a great lyricist. But his flow is phenomenal.
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
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Seriously, you hear it so much now,
but when he came out it was pretty astounding. Remember that his first tracks came in the middle of the overproduced Gangsta Hip Hop phase and were completely stripped down, yet earned a lot of respect.
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
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I remember.
I also had a bunch of the songs he rapped on before his first CD came out. His content was completely different.
And really, his stuff came out towards the end of what is referred to as the “Golden Era” of hip hop.
I still have that first album, I haven’t listened to it in probably 8 or 9 years.
Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
Really?
I always though Golden Age was like PE and BDP and Tribe and De La.
Eminem was about five years or so after most of those groups had produced their last great material.
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com
I always interpreted it as the golden age ending with the death of Biggy and Pac.
Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
Chatwood was ahead of Walden and Trumbo
somebody saw a lot in this kid at one point…I love the potential
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 1, 2011 1:44 PM MST up reply actions
haha
tyler skaags was an Angels top 10 prospect in 2010
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
You bet your ass he was
And Josh Byrnes stole him away
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 1, 2011 1:31 PM MST up reply actions
friggen dan haren
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 1, 2011 1:33 PM MST up reply actions
ARZ Projected 2015 Lineup/Rotation
Catcher Miguel Montero
First Base Paul Goldschmidt
Second Base Aaron Hill
Third Base Matt Davidson
Shortstop Stephen Drew
Left Field A.J. Pollock
Center Field Chris Young
Right Field Justin Upton
No. 1 Starter Trevor Bauer
No. 2 Starter Archie Bradley
No. 3 Starter Ian Kennedy
No. 4 Starter Tyler Skaggs
No. 5 Starter Daniel Hudson
Closer Jarrod Parker
This sucks…Ian Kennedy becomes a #3????
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 1, 2011 1:35 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm surprised he's even projected to be in their 2015 rotation, quite frankly
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
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He would be like 24 by then
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 1, 2011 1:39 PM MST up reply actions
If he keeps putting up those numbers in the minors
it will behard to keep him down
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 1, 2011 1:40 PM MST up reply actions
I got the impression that Muzia was talking about Kennedy.
I.E, he’s surprised that Kennedy wouldn’t have been traded/pushed out of the rotation by then.
Though I could be mistaken.
ohhhhh yeah got ya
he will be expensive by then probably yeah
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 1, 2011 1:42 PM MST up reply actions
Yep. Kennedy is probably nowhere near that rotation in 2015
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
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Nah....he's a #4 behind Skaggs
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 1, 2011 1:36 PM MST up reply actions
Man am I glad prospects don't always turn out
because wow, if they all turn out how they are suppose to, we might as well tear our thing down come 2014 and build for like 2018.
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 1, 2011 1:38 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
but there will be two wild cards!!!!!!
PRMLB - Tampa Bay Rays
One
The Braves will have one
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 1, 2011 1:54 PM MST up reply actions
september 2011 disagrees
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one, but trading wiggy to the phillies totally makes it okay
PRMLB Arizona Diamondbacks GM
was actually just kidding
i have no clue
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 1, 2011 1:55 PM MST up reply actions
Good thing that future lineup just doesn't sound good
besides Upton Montero and Goldschmidt.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
drew and young are both good hitters
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one, but trading wiggy to the phillies totally makes it okay
PRMLB Arizona Diamondbacks GM
I never liked Young
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 1, 2011 4:32 PM MST up reply actions
Their hitters are going to be sneaky decent.
If Pollock doesn’t work out, it could be Parra or Eaton in the OF. If Davidson doesn’t at third, it could be Bobby Borchering. They’ve got some depth there to cover issues. I’d have listed Chris Owings at second instead of Hill.
Project Prospect report on Chatwood from October 2010
(WITH GIFS)
I didn’t know he underwent TJ surgery in high school.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
He wasn't one of those disillusioned kids who did it solely to gain velo is he?
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 1, 2011 1:36 PM MST up reply actions
Unlike most pitchers who undergo the operation to repair a torn UCL, Chatwood’s surgery was to tighten his. During minor league spring training, he told me that his elbow hadn’t bothered him since.
Sounds possible. I’ll do some more digging
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
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It's all ammo, baby
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 1:37 PM MST up reply actions
The plane in the GIF on the left keeps grabbing my attention for some reason
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 1, 2011 1:52 PM MST up reply actions
To further clarify the current catching trade market
The Orioles just traded Randy Henry for Taylor Teagarden as a backup catcher.
Randy Henry was drafted in the 4th rd of 2009 and threw 52 IP of A ball out of the bullpen with a 6.8 K/9.
Granted, Teagarden isn’t anything special. But the Orioles traded a bullpen filler guy from A ball for him.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
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So translating this into our trade you would say what?
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 1, 2011 1:45 PM MST up reply actions
Nothing specifically
it’s similar to our trade for Jose Morales last year.
But Teagarden’s still going to play in the majors next year, and he was acquired for two notes of a song.
Iannetta for Chatwood may not shake the earth, but we still got a regarded prospect out of the deal.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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i know chatwood has lost his rookie eligibility and isn't considered a prospect anymore, but if he still were, where would you put him on the PURPs?
PRMLB - Tampa Bay Rays
7 or 8 ish?
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 1, 2011 1:53 PM MST up reply actions
Way too high for me.
But then again, the PuRP order is much different than I would rank it anyway. Using that order, I’d probably put him in the same tier as Tago, Friedich and Gardner are all bunched together on the list.
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"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Dec 1, 2011 1:56 PM MST up reply actions
It seems like he has done a lot more than Gardner and is 4 years younger
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
high teens
i had joe gardner at like 16, and i like gardner way better
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one, but trading wiggy to the phillies totally makes it okay
PRMLB Arizona Diamondbacks GM
really?
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 1, 2011 1:56 PM MST up reply actions
That speaks pretty highly of our farm
You think a guy ranked #2 in the Angels system 7 months ago would be #16 in Colorado’s? I don’t.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 1, 2011 1:57 PM MST up reply actions
As always, this depends on the qualifications that each ranking is based on.
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"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Dec 1, 2011 1:58 PM MST up reply actions
Then you probably would've ranked him differently.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 1:59 PM MST up reply actions
i hate walks
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one, but trading wiggy to the phillies totally makes it okay
PRMLB Arizona Diamondbacks GM
Then why did you rank Tyler Matzek at #4 on your Purps list?
And upon further review, you had Gardner ranked at #20.
There’s NO WAY we have 20 PuRPs better than him.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 1, 2011 2:07 PM MST up reply actions
And by him I mean Chatwood
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 1, 2011 2:08 PM MST up reply actions
haha, oh RIRF....
well matzek has a ceiling of sandy koufax and had a great second half last year. if i just stuck chatwood into that list, he would be 16th
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one, but trading wiggy to the phillies totally makes it okay
PRMLB Arizona Diamondbacks GM
I have him about level with Alex White, a bit behind Nicasio and behind Bettis
Ahead of Gardner by a decent margin, though.
Level with Alex White would seem to make sense
struggles in MLB debut, less than overwhelming stuff, yada yada. But for some reason I’m thinking Chatwood just a little lower, maybe 10ish. Which is quite a bit higher than I had Gardner, and now I’m questioning why that is…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
that's basically the reasoning, a lot of potential with the stuff
but a lack of command and of development in the secondary offerings to push his performance to date down.
At least one of the following things has to be true then
1) Both Baseball America and John Sickels VASTLY overrated Tyler Chatwood when they placed him at #2 on the Angels propect list last Spring.
(This one seems unlikely to me)
2) The Rockies farm system is just SO much better than the Angels farm system that there’s an entire handfull of guys in it who are better than anyone the Angels have not named Trout.
(While I like the Rockies system better, I’m not willing to believe the gap is this large)
3) Several folks in this thread are underrating Chatwood.
(I think we have a winner)
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 1, 2011 2:37 PM MST up reply actions
Did you ever submit a PuRPs list?
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 1, 2011 2:24 PM MST up reply actions
Keeping it close to the chest?
I mean, it’d be a nice “toldyouso” in a few years if you tabulated your list’s success vs the rest
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 1, 2011 2:35 PM MST up reply actions
I think if you go back through the past PuRPs polling I'm only so-so on the toldyousos
It was probably me that pushed Hector Gomez so high back in the day.
I'd guarantee it
This site sits at your feet when you spout wisdom regarding our farm, eyes a-dazzle and full of hope and wonder.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 2:50 PM MST up reply actions 3 recs
I'm reccing this and encouraging others to turn it as green...
as the envy that motivates it! ;-)
"Surgeons have determined that doing the wave will, yes, will cause tears to the suprapinatus muscle and the infraspinatus muscle from the throwing of an individual's arms rapidly into the air. In addition, any children doing the wave will be sold to the circus. Do NOT do the wave in the ballpark. Doing the wave is safe at pro football games and Miley Cyrus concerts.
-scoreboard announcement at Ranger Ballpark in Arlington via Baseball Nation.
It's ever so green...
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
Is this why everyone hates Muzia?
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
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We did the Muzia rules several months ago...
RIRF?
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
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You started it, too.
You dirty bugger.
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
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wow I didnt even know that...
I must restate…
Muzia kicks Ass
The Big Purple Machine will make a believer outta you!
Oddly enough,
this was also the day that I first mentioned OOTP. Though I had to bring it up a few days later before it got traction.
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
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RIRF is wrong.
Think that’s rule #6.
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 1, 2011 3:09 PM MST up reply actions
/bows
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
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Not everybody
my reasons for hating him are entirely different…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
Ortega has been a good catch
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 1, 2011 3:08 PM MST up reply actions
I'm surprised you have Rosario #1 btw
He seems to have a pretty big bust risk compared to Pomeranz and even Arenado. I’m sure his position is a big part of it, but…
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 1, 2011 3:15 PM MST up reply actions
More Bettis has risen,
He was pretty close to Nicasio in my book at the time we traded for him, but behind. Obviously I like Chatwood more than many. I think the combination of stuff suggests a ceiling that’s about as high as White’s. Bettis could go a little higher if he develops a change-up.
this whole debate
is shades of the ratings for white/pom when we got them. White battling Law’s negative views to get Brandon Webb comps and all that…and now White battling to hang on to back end status.
Whatever. I’m a Chatwood fan now because he’s with us and everyone keeps reminding me of CDI’s road numbers. It was fun being in CDI’s camp for a day though, felt cleansing somehow.
White had more mainstream media hype than Chatwood.
People who made Webb comparisons were obviously wide-eyed optimists looking at a GB specialist RHP for the ideal prototype. He had TOR starter written all over him before he went to North Carolina as a high school pitcher, and while he lost much of the sheen there, he certainly regained some in the Cleveland system. Frankly, I wasn’t at all disappointed in his performance with the Rockies in 2011, nor do I think it hurts his chances or diminishes his future, it’s just there’s a lot of competition. My major point is that the tide is continuing to rise for the rotation, and its taking more and more skill to get into the conversation of cracking it. This can only be a good thing.
My guess is somebody might flop or blow out an arm, but we’re stockpiling enough talent that one of these inconsistent but at times electric 95 mph pitchers (Rogers, White, Chatwood) will also likely break through in a big way.
I personally put Chatwood higher than Gardner
purely because while I like Gardner’s groundball ability more, Chatwood hit the majors.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 2:00 PM MST up reply actions
no kidding Gardner is year younger than Hammel was when we got him
Chatwood is closer to Matzek’s age than Gardner
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
The experience he got last year should help going forward, but I still don't see how Chatwood pitching in the majors last year elevates him as a prospect
The Angels put him in the rotation last year, but that doesn’t mean that he was ready to pitch in the majors or that his performance in the minors earned him that promotion. It just means that the Angels put him the rotation last year.
While “reaching the majors at 21” is “reaching the majors at 21” and that’s impressive on some level. Based on his performance (minors and majors), it seems to me that promotion was based more on circumstance/need than it was on talent/readiness.
And I’d be curious to see how those same folks we ranked him #2 in the Angels system pre-season would rank him now. My guess is that he’d be ranked lower. Personally, as a PURP, right now, I’d have him pretty close to Gardner.
But maybe all this is just Iannetta-related bitterness. ;-)
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
by Gasstation1 on Dec 1, 2011 3:11 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Well, it wouldn't be a night-and-day difference from Gardner
he’d probably be directly above him.
If I made a list.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 3:12 PM MST up reply actions
It does help him...
And people need to realize that pitching at the MLB level is a lot trickier than pitching at AAA and there are tricks to it that go beyond just throwing the ball. For the Angels to give him all that experience is essentially training him for the Rockies use.
Yes, I agree that it'll help him...
…I just don’t see why the chance the Angels gave him (prematurely) – and what he did with it (not much) – should make us think the guy is more talented than if he’d just stayed in minors all year instead.
Of course I understand he’s still 21 – I wouldn’t have expected him to dominate or even be average – so it’s not that I’m holding his performance in 2011 against him. I’m just not going to bump him up for it either.
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
by Gasstation1 on Dec 1, 2011 3:19 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
not to mention that the first 100 innings he pitched were around a
110 ERA+ and that he was the #76 prospect in all of baseball last year
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
man. I have no idea on this one.
He’d get a bump for hitting the majors (like Blackmon) but he has a lower ceiling than a lot of our top 10 PuRPs.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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I'd have a tough time putting him top 12
Though White is technically out now, and Blackmon will in the first week of April. Prob around 10 for me, ahead of Rutledge
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 1, 2011 2:37 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I figured if we're bending the rules to include Chatwood, those two and Nicasio would also have to be judged...
Agreed.
I’m with ATF though. If we include White, Blackmon, and Nicasio, then I have trouble putting him in the top 12 as well. I think he belongs up there, but I wouldn’t trade Story for Chatwood (for example).
He’s above Cabrera, certainly, but I can’t put him above Nicasio or Blackmon.
We really do have a strong top 8 or so.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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I'd also have him below Nicasio, as I mentioned above,
1. Rosario (but I almost flipped this, I’m not liking the seeming stagnation at all)
2. Arenado
3. Pomeranz
4. Bettis
5. Nicasio
6. Story
7. White
8. Chatwood
9. Anderson
10. Wheeler
11. Blackmon
where is kyle parker for you?
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one, but trading wiggy to the phillies totally makes it okay
PRMLB Arizona Diamondbacks GM
Where is Matzek?
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 1, 2011 2:56 PM MST up reply actions
Wow
I think you had him at #2 in June. That’s a huge drop.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 1, 2011 2:59 PM MST up reply actions
probably SNTS, I'm allowed sometimes.
Arenado was already close to passing him, and Bettis and Story make sense to me. He’s probably about level with Anderson and Wheeler in my mind, I could put those three in any order, and then I’d have Parker a step below.
Where is the beef?
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 2:57 PM MST up reply actions
Just beneath the lettuce
14. lettuce
15. beef
by Rox Girl on Dec 1, 2011 2:58 PM MST up reply actions 3 recs
Where is Jimmy Chitwood?
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 1, 2011 2:58 PM MST up reply actions
just beneath the barn roof
16. barn roof
17. Jimmy Chitwood, sloppin hogs.
by Rox Girl on Dec 1, 2011 3:01 PM MST up reply actions 5 recs
Well what if Gene Hackman stays?
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 1, 2011 3:03 PM MST up reply actions
where is waldo?
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
mine finally just came in two days ago, so it's obviously beneath mine
20. my refund
21. your refund
by Rox Girl on Dec 1, 2011 3:04 PM MST up reply actions 3 recs
Your list is much more complex than mine...
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
On the complexity list
women are always at the top!
1. Women
2. Quantum Mechanics
3. The Universe
…
453. Men
…
"Surgeons have determined that doing the wave will, yes, will cause tears to the suprapinatus muscle and the infraspinatus muscle from the throwing of an individual's arms rapidly into the air. In addition, any children doing the wave will be sold to the circus. Do NOT do the wave in the ballpark. Doing the wave is safe at pro football games and Miley Cyrus concerts.
-scoreboard announcement at Ranger Ballpark in Arlington via Baseball Nation.
by RdRnnr on Dec 1, 2011 3:07 PM MST up reply actions 3 recs
Oh, is that what people have been saying?
All this time I thought it was “the jury is still out on meth.”
beneath the ice skaters, near the man with the big russian beard and hat...
18. ice skaters
19 (tie) waldo
19 (tie) man with big russian beard and hat
by Rox Girl on Dec 1, 2011 3:02 PM MST up reply actions 3 recs
and the circles and arrows on the back of each one explaining what each one was.
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 1, 2011 3:10 PM MST up reply actions
Circles, ovals, triangles, rhombuses or tetrahedrons, depending on the classification.
And in different colors.
You may be needed for
Root Sport’s 2012 Scorecard extravaganza
"Surgeons have determined that doing the wave will, yes, will cause tears to the suprapinatus muscle and the infraspinatus muscle from the throwing of an individual's arms rapidly into the air. In addition, any children doing the wave will be sold to the circus. Do NOT do the wave in the ballpark. Doing the wave is safe at pro football games and Miley Cyrus concerts.
-scoreboard announcement at Ranger Ballpark in Arlington via Baseball Nation.
I'd say when we can sign a guy like Ramon Hernandez
& have a top 5 prospect in Rosario finalizing up his development and then get a guy like Chatwood. I’ll take my chances on trades like those.
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 1, 2011 1:52 PM MST up reply actions
Hey
did you guys know the Rockies drafted Greg Reynolds before Evan Longoria, Tim Lincecum, AND Clayton Kershaw?
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 1, 2011 2:00 PM MST reply actions
Don't remind me....
Not one our braintrust’s better moments in Rox history.
What the-?
Now, why you gotta go bringing that up, man? That’s just mean!
Jason Giambi for player-manager in 2012!
How the world will end in 2012: George of the Roses builds a Machine that Pommels everyone with La Violencia during Whiteouts.
I would ban anybody who brought that up in today's Rockpile, personally...
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
prove it
no one would be that stupid
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one, but trading wiggy to the phillies totally makes it okay
PRMLB Arizona Diamondbacks GM
What made this worse...
was that he was projected as having the upside of a #3 or #4 starter at the time they drafted him. Reynolds was the “safe” pick, we were told, since Lincecum was an injury waiting to happen and the others…..didn’t have the Stanford pedigree (see Young, Jason).
Yeah but did you know that we drafted...
Ryan Kibler
Josh Bard
Chuck Crowder
Chris Testa
Roney Johnson
Carlos Figueroa
Greg Catalanotte
Colin Young
Sean Daly
Chris Moore
Craig House
Rick Cercy
all before Albert Pujols!!!!!!!!! Combined 2.5 WAR vs 88.7 and counting
PRMLB - Tampa Bay Rays
But 29 other GMs screwed that up, though...
including the Cards themselves, by letting him stay on the board so long and risking having another team pick him up.
Except that the Cheapfartz actually signed him
sadly, we traded him along with Jody Gerut to Cleveland for Jacob Cruz in 2001
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
Is that a top-flight, blue-chip prospect?
NOPE
Chris Testa.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 2:51 PM MST up reply actions
z
Chuck Crowder
Chris Testa
Noope. Chuck Testa.
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 1, 2011 2:09 PM MST reply actions
oh my
it all comes together there
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 2:51 PM MST up reply actions
you mean the z subject line and reply fail?
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 1, 2011 2:56 PM MST up reply actions
and Chris Crowder
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 2:58 PM MST up reply actions
hmmm.....
“@Ken_Rosenthal
Iannetta can void 2013 option with trade. #Angels at one point asked #Rockies for window to talk extension. Rockies said no. #MLB"
"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"
/it is a new beginning, right?
by The Lodo Magic Man on Dec 1, 2011 3:23 PM MST via mobile reply actions
depends what material the bag is made out of
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 1, 2011 3:26 PM MST up reply actions
Huh? Why is this a bad thing?
Rox did CDI a favor in saying no. Now he has all the leverage with the Angels.
by BostonTransplant on Dec 1, 2011 5:14 PM MST up reply actions
I don't imagine that it's going to be that difficult for them to extend him, anyway.
He does seem happy with the situation.
Wouldn't you be?
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 3:39 PM MST up reply actions
getting traded to Anaheim?
I’m not sure, the OC is pretty appalling for the most part. I’d say as long as I didn’t have to live there, I’d be okay with it, but then I’d have to commute there and that would be just as bad.
let me rephrase
getting out from under the thumb of a boss who doesn’t appreciate your talents.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 3:42 PM MST up reply actions
When are you going to trade me to Baseball Nation?
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 1, 2011 3:43 PM MST up reply actions
Dude,
you’re going to Gaslamp Ball.
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
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Fine
Purple Row never shown a consistent commitment to unicorns anyway!
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 1, 2011 4:04 PM MST up reply actions
YOU SO CLEVHA
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 6:25 PM MST up reply actions
scioscia....
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one, but trading wiggy to the phillies totally makes it okay
PRMLB Arizona Diamondbacks GM
Methinks CDI is going to be a happy camper in SoCal:)
I’ll be watching the Angels more closely now…
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Maybe it really just was personality with Napoli
We’ll see what Scioscia will do
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 6:26 PM MST up reply actions
I thought that wasn't even a question
The Angels, or at least their beat writers, were fairly open about that. They (Scioscia and Napoli) hated each other.
by BostonTransplant on Dec 1, 2011 6:54 PM MST up reply actions
Laguna Beach
Laguna Niguel, Mission Viego, San Clemente, Huntington Beach would all like a word…:)
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Wow, look at the rich accountant....
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
Point being that much of the OC is not that appalling
and is rather appealing :) of YMMV.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
PRMLB folks:
DON’T DOWNLOAD THE NEW OOTP PATCH!
Thanks.
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From Ken Rosenthal:
Two #Rockies who lobbied for signing of R. Hernandez: Former Athletics teammate Jason Giambi and fellow Venezuelan Rafael Betancourt. #MLB
Jason Giambi: Player, Manager, GM, All Around Great Guy
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
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don't forget Rockies Justin Beiber Fan Club Vice President
PRMLB - Tampa Bay Rays
.

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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 3:42 PM MST up reply actions
Apparently Cargo is a friend, too
I’m happy we’ve increased our Venezuelan quotient. Something about the weather today just screams Caracas.
by BostonTransplant on Dec 1, 2011 5:15 PM MST up reply actions
Ramon Hernandez is a plus in one respect...
He could be more ideal in tutoring and developing Rosario as well as our young Latin pitchers such as Nicasio and Rogers. He also was the starting catcher for the A’s in the “Moneyball” era, a teammate of Giambi’s there. So he knows what it takes to catch a winning pitching staff (not that Iannetta didn’t).
I don't know if Iannetta did or didn't
The evidence is pretty mixed. That’s the hardest thing to evaluate from outside the team, the interaction between catcher and pitching staff. But it is undeniable that an awful lot of pitchers underperformed expectations while being caught by Iannetta.
by BostonTransplant on Dec 1, 2011 6:53 PM MST up reply actions
From my perspective
they didn’t perform much better with the other catchers either. Still nibbling on the corners with two strikes, not going up in the zone with heat…
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
In NL West rumors, again from Rosenthal:
Source: Free-agent SS Alex Gonzalez talking to #SFGiants. First reported by ESPN Deportes. #MLB
Not a bad move for them,
That would sharpen the infield, and he’s probably a better hitter than Crawford.
I know
I want to make fun but I can/t
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 1, 2011 3:39 PM MST up reply actions
We still can if it's a 3+ year deal!
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
The Cards and Brewers are also interested.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 1, 2011 6:22 PM MST up reply actions
Well, the ones with God were funny.
The rest not as much, except I started feeling bad for the ESPN ticker guy. The Jim Thome appearance was nice though.
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 1, 2011 4:56 PM MST up reply actions
I like Ralphie and Blount
In fact, they are almost interchangeable.
And of course Rex Ryan.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Did I miss something?
When was football allowed to to The Dugout?
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 6:46 PM MST up reply actions
whoop, I did not realize Jon Bois was one of the Dugout guys.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 6:47 PM MST up reply actions
When Todd Helton
brought it out during Spring Training to show that he was, the best QB on the team still.
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
OT: ZOMG. I need help.
My mouse is driving me crazy.
It’s a Microsoft Notebook Optical Mouse 3000. I have replaced the battery. I have cleaned it. I have tested the USB port to make sure it’s working ( it is). I have moved my cell phone away from the laptop. I have uninstalled and reinstalled the driver. Yet the red light blinks on the mouse. But it just won’t work and It worked just fine yesterday :(.
Any ideas?
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
the mouse is all red? do you have a virus?
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 1, 2011 4:39 PM MST up reply actions
Nope no virus.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
buy this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826153055
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one, but trading wiggy to the phillies totally makes it okay
PRMLB Arizona Diamondbacks GM
LOL $50.00 for a mouse?? Helllz no.....
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Also, how long have you been working for NewEgg :P?
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
by SDcat09 on Dec 1, 2011 4:43 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
lol i don't work for them
it’s just a kickass mouse that i’ve never had trouble with in a year and a half of ownership… sometimes you gotta be willing to pay for a quality product (and we’re back on baseball, just like that)
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one, but trading wiggy to the phillies totally makes it okay
PRMLB Arizona Diamondbacks GM
Well, I've had the mouse for about 3 years.....
I just don’t want to buy a new one if I can avoid it. Thought maybe someone had some idea that I’m overlooking.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
It's a Microsoft product...
You always start with a reboot!
"Surgeons have determined that doing the wave will, yes, will cause tears to the suprapinatus muscle and the infraspinatus muscle from the throwing of an individual's arms rapidly into the air. In addition, any children doing the wave will be sold to the circus. Do NOT do the wave in the ballpark. Doing the wave is safe at pro football games and Miley Cyrus concerts.
-scoreboard announcement at Ranger Ballpark in Arlington via Baseball Nation.
Been there done that too :(
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
I have a Razer mouse
But it isn’t that one… I have 2 extra buttons just below the scroll wheel but otherwise its quite similar. I think it was called a Lacharis or something like that. I also have a Razer headset… I’ve been quite impressed with their products so far and while pricey I do think the extra coin is worth it for their durability alone.
Wyoming baseball --- GO GHOSTS!
What did you do
to fix this problem last time?
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 1, 2011 6:25 PM MST up reply actions
good god
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 1, 2011 6:28 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
You're so wierd.
It’s awesome.
I thought 2011 sucked pretty bad. I have nothing to add to that.
by prettyinpurple on Dec 1, 2011 6:29 PM MST up reply actions 2 recs
*weird
I cannot spell for the life of me anymore.
I thought 2011 sucked pretty bad. I have nothing to add to that.
by prettyinpurple on Dec 1, 2011 6:29 PM MST up reply actions
Really dude? LOL
Wow…lol
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
To tell you the truth
I probably didn’t even read that one the first time. I just punched “Microsoft mouse” into the search function to see if anyone else here ever had a problem like that to see what they did to fix it. The only person I could find was you.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 1, 2011 6:52 PM MST up reply actions
You know what's bizarre..
Almost a year ago to the day. It’s like the annual mouse failure.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
He likes to get drunk on his birthday.
I suggest black coffee and ibuprofen.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 1, 2011 6:46 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
JFK's Quote of the Day:
“There’s absolutely no way you can go barreling into second and dump a guy on a double play, like you should do, when you’ve been fraternizing with him before a game.” ~Frank Robinson
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
Bill Buckner
could be on the Red Sox coaching staff next season.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 1, 2011 6:57 PM MST reply actions
WHOAAAAA. How things have changed :)
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Speaking of the Red Sox
Did anyone see this article about Bobby Valentine as ESPN continues their quest to shower the Red Sox with more praise for doing ordinary things than any other franchise in sports?
A few DIRECT QUOTES from the piece…..
Bobby Valentine has thrived at most things he has done in his life. He was a great football player; he once scored six touchdowns in the first half of a game at Stamford (Conn.)
There have been few ballroom dancers better than Bobby Valentine, just another facet that separates him from the average baseball guy. He had his shirts dry-cleaned when he was 16. And he was the king of the high school science fair.
He is the Director of Public Safety and Public Health in his hometown of Stamford, Conn., and has gone to other states just to see how others are handling public safety and health.
Makes some of my praises of Tulo for off the field stuff look kind of small.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 1, 2011 7:07 PM MST up reply actions
Meh. Doesn't seem like a Red Sox thing so much as a Bobby Valentine thing.
Especially considering that he spent time working at ESPN. Kurkjian freely admits his bias upfront (having covered him for a long time and having worked closely with him for a few years).
For some reason
I have a hard time seeing this article being written if say, the Kansas City Royals hired Bobby Valentine.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 1, 2011 7:16 PM MST up reply actions
It's a readership thing
MLB TV has been insufferable the past two days. Hot Stove has barely mentioned the Rox trade while spending 45 minutes each night (you think I’m exaggerating … I’m not) on Bobby V.
They know who watches their show.
by BostonTransplant on Dec 1, 2011 7:17 PM MST up reply actions
This I agree with. They did a little mention of it. However,
they are spending WAY TOO MUCH time on Valentine. He is a new manager for an east coast team. More bias coming from another sports channel.
DAMMIT. Has ESPN taken over the MLB Network!?!?!?!?!?
80 today and 79 tomorrow is how many days remain until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
Any sports network is going to spend a lot of time on a new manager for the Red Sox.
Especially a well-known guy like Valentine.
Do you honestly think that they would spend as much time on us IF we just happened to replace Jim Tracy? to
I highly doubt it.
Them: Oh yea, the Rockies have a new manager. Moving on.
80 today and 79 tomorrow is how many days remain until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
by Roxman4ever on Dec 1, 2011 7:58 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
If the Rockies just replaced
a manager for a competitive team that completely collapsed at the end of the year with one who has a history such as Valentine, yes the Rockies would have the attention.
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
Now, if we would've gotten Francona.
That would’ve gotten attention.
79 today and 78 tomorrow is how many days remain until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
I never said anything about the Rockies.
Just said it’s not even remotely surprising that it’s getting the attention it is. And it certainly wouldn’t be just ESPN. And I agree with jrockies below that any team to hire a guy like Valentine would be getting a lot of attention.
I see your point. Valentine is a big name.
Whycantwegetonetoo?
79 today and 78 tomorrow is how many days remain until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
Eh, it might not get covered as much, but I could still see Kurkjian himself writing such an article.
It really seemed like more of a personal Bobby Valentine thing for him, regardless of what team hired him.
Lets try to see who would win this.
Buck Showalter was on BBTN on ESPN along with Bobby V.
You got the Flying Showalters in Baltimore or the Bobby Sox in Boston.
Let the games begin.
80 today and 79 tomorrow is how many days remain until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
My new and last conclusion on the CDI trade
I think it was a dump trade. No, that sounds too harsh. Let’s say I think the more important element in the Rox thinking was moving on from CDI to Hernandez and then Rosario, than acquiring Chatwood. He’s just the best we could get for CDI, given his extreme Coors Field splits and contract situation. We’re actually lucky we could get a flyer on the kid.
I think the FO soured on CDI for a couple reasons. For one, he’s not a great fit for a young, heavily Latin, pitching staff. His laid back demeanor and relative weakness in the “soft” catching skills (pitch selection, framing) was not a great match for our staff going forward. And although it’s not rational, I think the brain trust liked how our team looked when the last two serious non-CDI catchers (Torrealba and Olivo) had extensive playing time. And for another, offensively he was fine but he exacerbated our already strong negative tendencies: The constant hitting from behind, the empty at-bats, and going into comas on the road due to lack of contact ability. Neither of these factors means he’s a bad player, and he may be a star in LA. He was just becoming a bad fit for the direction the rest of the franchise was going.
Anyway, my final two cents. Let’s move on and get ourselves some infielders!
by BostonTransplant on Dec 1, 2011 7:24 PM MST reply actions
heavily latin
Pom, White, Bettis, Friedrich on the young side and still Hammels and innings eating vet that will likely be Millwood are the pitchers he’s going to be working with. Even JDLR is very Americanized at this point growing up on the US border and now calling AZ his home. Culture wise only Chacin and Nicasio fit in the likely impact pitchers this year – and while those two are VERY important to the success of this pitching rotation, its far from what I would list as “heavily latin”
Wyoming baseball --- GO GHOSTS!
by Kris Hansen on Dec 1, 2011 7:41 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
Told my 8 year-old that CDI was traded.
He says he doesn’t like the Rockies any more.
"Are they called the Rockies because they rock?" - 7 y.o.
by glaucophane on Dec 1, 2011 8:04 PM MST via iPhone app reply actions
I called my mom last night and told her the same thing.
She went off the handle. I told her to come over here and check it all out. If she would’ve joined, she would’ve been banned today. She was so pissed. I haven’t heard my mom talk like that in a long time. She LOVED CDI. She could be in that section that calls him “dreamy”. Or as in her own words….“Yummy”.
79 today and 78 tomorrow is how many days remain until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
I didn’t realize Andrew Martin was your son! So cuuuuuuute!!!!
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
PRMLB: The Brew Crew
Well, the kid does like math and is into WAR games...
"Are they called the Rockies because they rock?" - 7 y.o.
by glaucophane on Dec 1, 2011 8:14 PM MST up reply actions 3 recs
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
REC’D
79 today and 78 tomorrow is how many days remain until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
Also, it's going to be really awkward when an 8-year-old tries to buy beer for the entire Row next season...
"Are they called the Rockies because they rock?" - 7 y.o.
by glaucophane on Dec 1, 2011 9:04 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Aww.
My sister doesn’t too. She emailed me:
I hate the rockies. hate them. Im going to bed now.tomorrow I’ll wake up and look at my autograph
, then I’ll hate the rockies more…… Dooooooooooom.
I thought 2011 sucked pretty bad. I have nothing to add to that.
by prettyinpurple on Dec 1, 2011 8:42 PM MST up reply actions
I just realized
I have multiple CDI autographs.
- 2009 All-Star Baseball (he wasn’t but I caught it during the Astros BP and he signed it)
- 2007 NL Champions Shirt
- At least one card
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
She should have been an Astros fan.
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com
well, that sure is a thing:
The Marlins have agreed to terms with free agent closer Heath Bell, reports ESPN’s Jayson Stark. The deal is worth $27MM over three years and it contains a vesting option for a fourth year. The contract is pending Bell passing a physical, which he will take tomorrow in Florida.
hahaha $30M+ for a closer.
"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"
/it is a new beginning, right?
by The Lodo Magic Man on Dec 1, 2011 9:26 PM MST reply actions
I wouldn't do that deal with a closer
but I am glad to see him out of the division for the time being.
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
Anyone else see that Adam Kennedy signed a 1 year deal with the Dodgers?
Or is this old news?
79 today and 78 tomorrow is how many days remain until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
news to me
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
Just saw it on MLB network.
They actually talked about something other than Bobby V.
79 today and 78 tomorrow is how many days remain until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
Would anyone be interested in Eric Chavez on a 1 year deal from the Yankees?
He is a FA. Even though he didn’t play alot this past year.
79 today and 78 tomorrow is how many days remain until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
i like chavez next year better than rolen
the phillies signed papelbon, and are now #1evilorg. the rockies have signed no one, but trading wiggy to the phillies totally makes it okay
PRMLB Arizona Diamondbacks GM
I dont like Rolen either.
Would he come to us even after playing for them? He hardly saw anytime playing time.
79 today and 78 tomorrow is how many days remain until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
Under the new CBA do the Padres now have the #9 and #10 pick?
moving us back a slot?
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
A couple of twitter thoughts grew too long in my head, so a rare comment... bullet point style:
-Too much what-have-you-done-for-me-lately analysis on Tyler Chatwood right now. The realities here are a pitcher that was called up to AA a little early in ‘10, and then called up really early in ‘11. The Angels should have hit the pause button in AA in ‘10, when Chatwood’s K rate dropped precipitously while his BB rate stayed roughly the same as High A. Chatwood’s stuff is too good to treat this drop as a stuff-doesn’t-play-up-against-good-competition situation. Rather, this would have been a perfect time to let Chatwood hone his stuff against quality hitters in preparation for a possible big league debut in September of ‘11. Instead, Chatwood was never given the chance to settle until he was called up early this season to the majors in arguably the worst environment for a 21 year old with only 17 games worth of experience above High A that still hadn’t shown the aptitude to pitch to hitters that won’t chase his stuff out of the zone. In this regard, We can almost treat ‘11 like his AA/AAA development-wise, and shouldn’t assume that he cannot make gains in both command and control to improve his K rate while lowering his walk rate.
-Conversely, the Rockies must find a way to balance developing Chatwood on the fly, while not risking any further damage to his future by allowing damning issues to persist. Any possible growth stunt caused by the Angels has happened and the Rockies must live with it. That isn’t to suggest that I believe irreparable harm has been done, I’m just not dismissing it either. The Rockies’ scouts are obviously comfortable in what they saw over last season, and there’s plenty of upside to cultivate here.
-I saw Tyler Chatwood pitch in AA in ‘10. As I noted on twitter, I don’t recall consistent mid 90’s velocity from him, but thought he was more of a 91-93 mph guy that worked around the zone and flashed a quality curveball. Obviously, with an average fastball velocity in ‘11 of 93 mph (higher than Alex White, .5 behind Ubaldo Jimenez), Chatwood demonstrated plenty of juice on his fastball. That said, I expect Bob Apodaca to reel him in some. Despite his 5’11 frame, Chatwood was adept at getting his batted ball outs on the ground. His two seam fastball sits in the low 90’s and features decent sink and good life late. Couple that with Chatwood’s willingness to throw the fastball often (74.3% in ‘11), and you have a guy that has the tools to succeed under Bob Apodaca’s approach. Getting Chatwood to harness his two seam early in counts will be key in getting even more easy outs on the ground while getting his walk rate under control.
-Yes, Chatwood stabs in the back of his arm action, but no, this isn’t the death knell some make it out to be. Ubaldo Jimenez turned in the best pitching season in club history with a worse stab motion. Chatwood’s very athletic and with his delivery, will need to constantly focus on keeping his motion in rhythm. The stab can effect his timing unless he can consistently perform the action in synch with bring the arm towards home with his body. This is where his athleticism should help. That said, the Rockies may still try to quiet his arm action some.
-From Alex White to Chad Bettis to Tyler Matzek to Drew Pomeranz to Tyler Chatwood, one thing is clear: The Rockies love pitchers with a Bulldog mentality that are unafraid to go after hitters with their fastball. You cannot succeed in Coors without this fearless approach and this confident exhibited by so many of these young pitchers should aid in their transition together as a pitching staff at the major league level.
-Outside of Dan Wade’s Fangraph’s article, I haven’t seen many analysts speak to Chatwood’s skills that should allow him to survive Coors Field. Instead, I’ve seen more lazy analysis that read more like: Short pitcher + many fastballs = homers at Coors. Chatwood has never been a homer-prone pitcher, from Rancho Cucamonga to the majors. Instead, as discussed above, Chatwood has compensated for his lack of plain with a quality two seam fastball that shows good sink and late life. Short pitchers unfairly take a bad wrap for this, tall pitchers almost always get a pass.
-I don’t want to dwell on Iannetta, so this is hopefully the last time I discuss him. Why is everyone so quick to assume that this is just the move he needs? Leaving the best environment for fastball hitters to go to a park more pitcher friendly? It would be criminally unjust to just look at his home/road splits to pass judgment, as Rockies’ hitters show larger than normal splits, but you cannot deny that leaving Coors Field is not the kick start his offense needs. Would anyone be surprised if Iannetta struggles to scratch a .650 OPS in the AL next year? Even at .700 to .750, does his defense do enough to make this a huge pick up for Anaheim? WAR is simply ill equipped to encapsulate the value of a catcher (Yadier Molina a -.7 on defense this year?), and fascinating studies (especially those of Mike Fast of BP) are starting to quantify nuances like framing and receiving skills. Fast’s research was especially unkind to Iannetta’s receiving skills, which should given everyone pause before claiming the Rockies just dealt a 3 win catcher. Lastly, if the Rockies shackled Iannetta and he breaks free in Anaheim, fine. Great. Whatever. All I know is that this was a guy that I defended for years but quickly grew tired of the excuses. Iannetta had 1,733 AB’s in a Rockies’ uniform to prove himself and he leaves with a career 99 OPS+ and nondescript defense. Not saying that’s bad, but…
-Hernandez should have little trouble matching this production, because that has been his production his entire career. I’m not sure why so many are quick to dismiss this signing. Hernandez has a career 108 OPS+ in the National League, and is coming off back to back quality offensive seasons. If defense isn’t a wash, it slightly favors Hernandez. I’m not suggesting the Rockies come out ahead here, but only an age decline that Hernandez hasn’t demonstrated would suggest the Rockies don’t break even on this swap for next season.
-Changing topics, I think BA/Etkin did a quality job on the Top 10 list this year. Only notable omissions for me might have been Blackmon and Herrera, though I have not seen Herrera play in person. I like that they put Story ahead of Anderson, as that matches my suggestion that the two should have been picked in that ordered and everyone would have been happy. 7th seems to be the go-to spot to put a 1st rounder that nobody has a good read on. I found it odd that Tyler Anderson went from 6’4 215 on draft day, to listed 6’2 185 in the handbook. That’s a significant difference, and from appearance, he looks more the former on film. I make this an issue because his frame is an attribute, in terms of durability and plane. Other than that, it’s hard to pass judgement on him until he throws in real games.
-If I had to replace players on this list, Matthes and Rutledge would probably be the choices, but I have no problem with their rankings. Matthes is a good lesson in caution on being overly age reliant. A senior sign with a washed out year from injury, if you ignore scouting reports, he can come across as a guy that is beating up on younger players. That may still be true, but don’t ignore the tools. Players can’t always control their circumstances, so it’s worth watching guys like Matthes who have shown MLB tools regardless of age. Rutledge is a different case for me as I’m just not sure how he projects. One thing we know about Rutledge is that his compete level is high, given his success in both the SEC and last year in skipping a level to High A. It would be interesting to see the Rockies push him to second in Tulsa if Gomez repeats yet again, but barring Gomez staying back, I wouldn’t force the move yet. Arenado draws all the headlines for being a potential contributor at a position of need, but Rutledge is more polished and could be similarly important if he is eventually called upon this season to fill 2nd base.
by David OhNo on Dec 1, 2011 11:01 PM MST reply actions 10 recs
Thanks for the information
I enjoy hearing your opinions on these things.
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
awesome stuff man. thanks
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
PRMLB: The Brew Crew
Great post, David.
Appreciate the analysis.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 2, 2011 1:55 AM MST up reply actions
And green it is.
Very good points. Your not around very often but when you talk. You let it all out at once. Job well done.
79 today and 78 tomorrow is how many days remain until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
I'm starting to think David OhNo
is like Troy Renck or something
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 2, 2011 7:06 AM MST up reply actions
I wish Renck was this nuanced
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

































