Monday Rockpile: Rockies Free Agent Bat Targets Aren't Really Upgrades.
The MLB Free Agent crop is always an interesting bag. You have your topheavy classes and huge name players, you have some above average guys, and then a lot of scraps who are hoping for a bounceback or something. The Rockies right now are tied to Michael Cuddyer and Josh Willingham, and frankly, I'm not all that excited for either.
I'll give you my thesis right now for the rest of what I'm writing: None of the guys the Rockies are seriously looking at are any better than Seth Smith paired with an appropriate platoon partner (read: Jonny Gomes or similar; not Ryan Spilborghs).
Before I continue with the details, let me put this fact out there: in 2011, there were nearly 3 times as many PAs against RHP than against LHP. By this logic, we want a guy who can hit RHP well, regardless of their prowess against LHP, as they'll have 3 times as many chances to be awesome and productive. That said, we shouldn't just pretend that batting against LHP isn't important, but finding a platoon partner is going to be FAR cheaper than landing a 3-year deal for a guy who is "meh" against 75% of the pitchers he faces and dominates 25%.
I mean, think about it. The Rockies want a RHB because we're a lefty-heavy lineup. But why do we want a RHB? Because they hit LHP well, and lefties tend to shut down our lefty-heavy lineup. Essentially, it's not that we actually want a RHB, per se, but more that we want to not get dominated by LHP. So let's move forward.
I'm not thrilled with Michael Cuddyer. He's a plus bat, that's for sure, but we're not playing him at a position that's been a black hole in the lineup. With Nolan Arenado apparently already penciled in for the Rookie of the Year award and at least 2 MVPs over the next 5 years, Cuddyer is going to be playing a decent amount of RF. Maybe even some 3B while we wait for St. Arenado, then he'll take a little 1B time to spell Helton... yeah, he'll be Ty Wigginton with a better bat. There's something about bad fielders that just upsets me. Yeah, Cuddyer will add another plus bat to the lineup, but he's going to nullify some of that value with his poor defensive play. The Rockies are going to have to overpay for his production.
Cuddyer is roughly a league average bat against RHP and pretty awesome against LHP. Like, 160 wRC+ awesome (at least 60% above average). That all balances out to roughly a 25-30% increase above the league average bat. Which happens to be Smith's line against RHP. So assuming that Cuddyer faces a 3:1 R:L split, that means we can expect 75% of his batting production to be roughly "average" and the other 25% to be just skull-splittingly dominant. If we put Seth Smith in there only against RHP, we can expect 100% of his batting production to be solidly above average. Jonny Gomes, then (and it doesn't have to be Gomes, I'm just throwing him out there as a good example), only faces LHP, and 100% of HIS batting production is at a similar level.
Yes, Smith just had a poor year in the field. But this is why we look at muti-year samples with fielding. He just came off of 2 positive seasons in the field and then had a negative one. Gomes isn't a great fielder, that's just a fact. Cuddyer is arguably worse than both of them, and he hasn't had a season that graded out as positive since roughly 2005.
How about Josh Willingham? Well, he kind of makes sense for the Rockies in that he could... uh... play a corner OF slot. Badly. Again, not a defensive upgrade on Smith. His platoon splits are far more balanced in that he hits LHP at a 30% above average rate for his career and RHP at about 20% above average.
Great, right?
Well, Willingham also strikes out a lot. Didn't we just ship out two of our biggest strikeout perpetrators in Iannetta and Stewart? The two of them aren't exactly the same situation, but the team is clearly moving away from the "low AVG/High BB/High SLG" guys and looking at more contact guys who can move baserunners better and have a lesser chance of killing all them rallies with strikeouts.
How about Carlos Beltran? Yeah, he's a pipe dream, thanks to his dry-rubber-band knees, but his platoon splits are strong in all the right directions. He's a switch hitter who still hits both handed pitchers at an above average rate. Downside: he's apparently super expensive (is he?), he's a major injury risk (yes), he can't really field (also true), and there's a strong chance he wouldn't even want to come to Colorado.
Why are we so insistent of throwing Seth Smith out the door and welcoming in a marginal upgrade at his position for like 2-3 times as much money? 2B and 3B are still going to be a black hole, but oh boy, we added MAYBE 1 win to the season by having a different corner outfielder.
Honestly, and I'll conclude with this, the Rockies picked an absolutely AWFUL season to have to force hands and make a big move. The FA options that "make sense" for Colorado are redundant and don't really help the team all that much. But it's pretty much been declared that the Rockies are going to make that big move, to PROVE that they're committed to improving themselves. They're going to end up overcommitting to a marginal improvement and we'll once again be strapped for cash to fix the areas of the team that actually NEED help.
I know I keep talking about taking that risk, making that signing, but only do it if there's a legitimate shot that the player we take the risk on is actually going to fill a hole and not just add another couple of inches to the top of a hill. If we can't do that, go get a platoon partner for Smith and just fill in any other gaps with the best glovemen available. I don't care if that even means Herrera. Hell, if Arenado and Josh Rutledge tear up ST, maybe just throw the New Rockies out there (you know, the handpicked Tulo team) and let them gel for awhile.
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I wish the Rockies would slow down on these trades now...
Seth Smith was not a problem last year. I understand getting rid of some of the guys that underperformed (Wigginton, Stewart, Ubaldo, Street, and to a lesser extent, Iannetta). You can’t keep guys around who have proven that they can’t win together. I would MUCH rather find a platoon partner for Smith, at least for this season. It’d give Blackmon or Wheeler a little more time to develop and maybe when Smith hits free agency, you let him walk if you have someone ready to take his place.
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The problem is
they consider Smith in that underperforming group as well.
That’s what really bothers me about this offseason, is that it seems to be more about getting rid of the “under acheivers” than actually filling real holes.
This is actually not true, Smith's not considered part of the underperforming group, neither was Iannetta.
Both are/were seen as valuable enough to bring something highly valuable back in trade. The Rockies believe this with Chatwood, and if Smith does get traded, they will believe it of what they get from him.
Right on the money, Andrew
I’ve been arguing the same thing over the past few days. Willingham is better than Cuddyer, but neither are upgrades, and why we would bother with guys like this instead of going after players who would actually fill a hole is beyond me.
Perhaps a trade or two is in order?
If we sign one of Willingham or Cuddyer, clearly that makes someone expendable, and maybe we could make a trade of such redundant talent for a hole-filler. Scutaro or Brandon Phillips would be nice.
Phillips is a difficult case to figure out.
With 10/5 rights, he’d have to feel pretty disrespected to accept a trade from his hometown team, and I don’t get the sense that’s the case right now. I was monitoring it a little earlier in the off season when it looked like it might go that direction, but I haven’t seen anything to show this will be the case since. I’d love to have him, I just don’t see it happening.
Scutaro, of course, I’m on board with.
D'oh, he doesn't have 10/5 rights...
I don’t know why I thought he did. I still see it as unlikely, the Reds owner really likes him.
Brandon Phillips?
What makes you think we even have a shot at him?
We have a shot...
It just might not be a very good one, especially since we’ve shot our best bullets already (Iannetta, Street).
That's a pretty picture you paint of the past, too bad it's not that accurate.
Iannetta and Street could not have been leveraged into Brandon Phillips.
Esp with Cincy having Mesoraco and Grandel on the way up
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 12, 2011 3:32 PM MST up reply actions
Who says it has to be a two-team trade...
or only involve those two current Rockies? Prospects or other current roster players could always be a part of a deal. O’Dowd used to be the master of the three-team-trade (he even got involved in a four-team trade that involved Vinny). He was a very creative GM once upon a time. That was a long time ago.
He made so many misses on the personnel the Rockies got back in those trades, though
It’s no wonder he’s trigger shy right now. I still agree with you to an extent, though (not Phillips, but something like that should be possible right now.)
Exactly....
DOD has become an impotent GM because he wears the scars of a man burned on past decisions. HampNeagle leads to no frontline SP free agent signings for a decade, is another example.
My point above is that if you hold onto your good bullets (Street, CDI) a little longer, it’s more likely something creative could be put together to yield a player of value for us. Now that they are gone and we got dregs back in return, his ability to engineer a deal that could be transformative for our team is much less.
Sorry, I hadn't read the rest of the thread...
when I wrote the above. Now I’m all caught up. Agreed on general underwhelming response to possibility of signing Cuddyer now. I guess we just have to wait to see what happens.
This view of Cuddyer needed some light
Excellent. The only thing I’d point out is that presumably signing Cuddyer and shipping out Smith would result in the return of an infielder better capable of handling 2B or 3B than LeMahieu.
Hawpe is a revered Rockie, but watching him play RF the last two seasons he was there was brutal. His defense made the rest of the OF vulnerable. Yet, his bat was acceptable enough to keep him in the lineup.
Now, we have an OF (Smith) who isn’t as good of a hitter, but is capable and significantly better in the field, and he’s unacceptable because of… need a platoon partner, bad attitude, permanent 4th OF? Who knows.
Needs a platoon partner
gets translated into “bench player” by some. Apparently the FO has bought into that. I think DOD needs to stop reading the Post.
It's exactly this
If you’re a platoon player, the majority of fans see you as not good enough and believe if you sign a free agent that can play everyday, then he must be better. This is “validated” by looking at a player’s stat line that says Seth Smith has never hit for 20 home runs in a year while Cuddyer and Willingham have both done it multiple times in their career.
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by Cargo'es Yard on Dec 12, 2011 9:31 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
(and the view of Willingham)
The team’s not in a position, without a major upgrade for next year at 2B or 3B, plus a SP, where giving a three year contract to a 32 year old is going to make a difference without every single uncertainty breaking the Rockies’ way. The money not spent this year could be better spent at mid-season if there’s a miracle, or saved for next off-season.
agree, save it for other opportunities that show up, sometimes there are other fish in the sea and you just have to wait until you meet it. Or like when you need a new car cuz your old one broke. You can go out and get a car with 100,000 miles on it but you still have to pay $7500 for it and it is a risky move and it seems like there aren’t any other deals. Or you can pay $1000 for an ugly car that runs and does the job and save the $6500 for a different deal next year.
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by waterboy31321 on Dec 12, 2011 8:12 AM MST up reply actions
maybe we will just trade for Hanley Ramirez
When all it takes is Vogelsong and Pill, why not? http://multimedia.foxsports.com/device/mobile/t/49528315/miami-might-do-well-to-trade-ramirez.htm?m_n=true
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by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 12, 2011 7:56 AM MST via mobile reply actions
can't be THAT hard, right?
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 12, 2011 8:42 AM MST up reply actions
and move Tulo to 2B....
because Han Ram is only happy when playing SS.
It's exactly the same thing as Iannetta
Replace starter with veteran as younger players fit into the field and getting value for Smith. The hope is that Smith helps bring in a Martin Prado type piece without giving up a significant future player in the lineup. The only problem is that we killed our leverage in any Smith deal, the same way as Street.
Besides, Cuddyer is likely to only be out there in RF for one year before starting at first when Helton takes on a Giambi role for the team in 2013. We’re moving pieces that don’t fit into our future plans and signing players that can help us win yet bridge to the next generation of prospects like Rutledge, Arenado, Wheeler, Blackmon, Parker, Rosario, Pomeranz, White, and Nicasio. It’s their way of competing yet avoid Todd and the Toddlers again.
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The problem is that once Cuddyer starts the transition to 1B,
Helton will still be around. So, the type of player that the Rox would be trading away (Smith, LH) is exactly the type of player they’d like to have Cuddyer to split time with in the OF in 2013.
Otherwise, what do you do with RF when Cuddyer starts at 1B? I’m assuming Cuddyer would move to RF on days that Helton plays (which probably will still be at least half the season).
Blackmon and/or Wheeler?
I’m assuming Fowler sticks around for 3 years (he has 4 years of control left) and CarGo obviously will be here.
You guys are forgetting the entire reason why we’re trading Smith in the first place.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
Wouldn't have made sense to get one for CDI?
Maybe a three team deal would have worked.
Because we have an outfield glut
And the Rockies FO is confident that one of Wheeler or Blackmon could replace Smith for literally nothing while we trade Smith at his highest value?
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
by MattBerger on Dec 12, 2011 8:09 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
That's risky
considering Wheeler has no time in MLB and Blackmon has little where he hit a very empty .250. Not saying it won’t work out, but they should accept that as risk.
Of course
That’s why they’re paying for veterans right now, and that’s probably why we acquired Colvin.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
And it's also why I don't want to trade Wheeler for Prado as well
Though I accept it’s probably what it’s going to take unless the Braves are batshit insane and keep asking for Arenado.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
Wheeler has never played above AA
And Blackmon has 98 MLB ABs. We have approximately 3.2 (counting Smith, EY2 and Spilborghs as all on the roster still). Slow down a bit.
You're talking about an organization that continuously rebuilds itself through prospects
They’re not changing this one bit. They don’t see Blackmon/Wheeler as being ready this year, so one year of Cuddyer in the outfield, then Cuddyer eases Helton out. The only 1st baseman worth getting in 2013 is Napoli, and he’ll be out of our price range if he repeats next year. we have no solution for first base past this season. None.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
Except Helton will still need to start 100+ games
It’s highly unlikely that they’d give him a Giambi-role in his last season.
That means about 1.75 seasons of terrible RF defense from Cuddyer during the 3 year contract. And then, the Rox have a 34 year old RH first baseman who has posted the following wRC+ vs. RHP over the last four years: 87, 112, 90, 101.
I’d rather have Adam Dunn.
wow, don't say something like that re Dunn.
That slow bat is likely on its last legs. His swing has developed some large, easily exploitable holes within the strike zone.
by Rox Girl on Dec 12, 2011 8:39 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
No, you'll never change my mind because I'm inferring that it was just a down year
and I have anecdotal evidence in the form of Pat the Bat that when an NL player goes to the AL they are bad, but when they go back to the NL they are bomb.
Free Adam Dunn!!!
can't tell if trolling....
arenado: it's Rockie for future
It used to be the book on him was you could get him to chase sliders
But check out the jump in FB’s he saw in 2012, up to 62% from 54.4% in 2011 and up to 92.4 mph. That’s massive. Even without watching him on film this last year, I would think that would be a fairly obvious sign of what I’m talking about. He’s supposedly working on the issues this offseason, but there’s a huge amount of risk that this is near the end of the line for him.
Right, and not saying that's definitely a reversible trend
but I’ve got to think if the WSox are in full rebuilding, he’d be available for cheap.
Regardless, there’s no circumstance in which he fits on the Rox. Unless both Helton and Giambi go away and leave the money owed.
Cuddyer is highly unlikely to hit enough in 2013 not to be a real liability at 1B
And let’s not forget the costs of this potential switcharoo… Prado is going to make a few million more than Smith in arbitration. Basically, if we were to get Prado and Cuddyer, we’d be adding something like $12 million in salary for 2013, plus losing a prospect. If we keep Smith, and just bring in an Izturis or Callaspo (figuring that either of those guys would be obtainable for the same prospect that the Braves want in addition to Smith… given that the Angels can’t start both of those players, I think that’s a fair assumption), the team is certainly no worse than in the Prado/Cuddyer scenario, and we only add $3-4 million to the payroll instead of $12 million.
Again, I'm not sure what the Rockies are totally expecting for Smith
Obviously they want Smith to line up in a deal for a 2nd baseman, but it doesn’t mean we have to trade him for that.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
When trying to trade a player, there are two ways to go about it
1) Find a team that needs the player more than you do, and make a fair trade that benefits both sides.
2) Try to find a sucker who will overpay.
The second is fun to contemplate, and every once in a while it works out beautifully (Vernon Wells, for example), but realistically, we need to be looking for trade partners that match that first criterion. And I don’t see any, largely because Smith is better than Cuddyer and just as good as Willingham (who, by all accounts, we’re not going to sign anyway), so we need Smith just as much as anyone else does. I just don’t see how we expect to come out ahead here… the only explanation is that the organization isn’t valuing Smith properly.
wheres the third option where the rockies trade their players for cents on the dollar?
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by purplesocks on Dec 12, 2011 10:24 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Hey, I'm sure Nick Schmidt is bound for glory!
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Yesterday I linked a Morosi report in the comments that said Dipoto wants to keep Izturis as a super-utility
That there is no desire whatsoever to trade either him or Callaspo. We’d have to overpay for either player.
by Rox Girl on Dec 12, 2011 8:15 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Well, that's a bummer
But it doesn’t mean we’d have to overpay. If we need Callaspo/Izturis more than the Angels do, which is pretty clearly the case (since we need an everyday player), a trade can be worked out. Maybe this means that we’d have to pay fair value and can’t expect a bargain… I’m okay with that. It’s still better than the other plan, which pretty clearly has us overpaying.
But in any case, there are still other targets
Kelly Johnson (I know, we’ve discussed him before), Scutaro, Lowrie, maybe Sean Rodriguez… in any case, I see zero reason to meet the asking price for Prado.
if Scutaro is actually available
he’s my preferred trade target right now
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I agree, re Prado being an overpay, I don't really want to do that deal
even at the Smith/Wheeler level, but that’s at least closer to what I’d consider a reasonable price. But it seems with Scutaro and a couple others being available at a bargain level, what’s a small overpay by talent becomes a huge one by the available market.
I’m going to say this here, but the only issue I have with Smith going forward is that this offseason really is his peak value when it comes to trade. There’s only a decline in that for the Rockies going forward, so while his production is sound, his trade value will still swiftly erode because of the escalating salary cost.
by Rox Girl on Dec 12, 2011 8:34 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
That's a good point on Smith
And if we had an in-house alternative that projected to be even half as valuable as he does for 2012, I’d have no problem trading him. But when trading him a) doesn’t appear to be a particularly lucrative proposition, even with his value at its peak, and b) would force us to overpay to replace him, it doesn’t look so attractive.
Maybe the larger problem here is that we have exactly one outfielder down on the farm (Wheeler) who looks like a reasonable bet to turn into a competent regular. Because of that, Smith still has considerable value to us, both now and next year.
I get what you're saying about Smith's value being at it's peak
but often I get the impression that teams are more willing to overpay during the season. If a team that already likes Smith then has an injury or major regression from a player, they may be more motivated to acquire him.
I’m starting to think we should chill with the trading and wait until during the season to make deals.
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This is a more valid argument for pitchers than it is position players, particularly OF's.
Waiting to the trade deadline will actually severely limit the market the Rockies have available to trade him too, so the sum to the leverage will usually turn out to be negative unless it’s a truly elite player. Look at what the Astros got for Bourn or Pence, for example, two OF’s that have a considerably higher trade market value than Smith.
by Rox Girl on Dec 12, 2011 9:12 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I mean, it could go either way. The Astros weren’t ideal in that they had a crappy GM and no hopes of contending. The Mets got a good haul for Beltran (not saying Smith and Beltran are equal). There’s been interest in Smith but there doesn’t seem to be a clear trade partner or a team that needs him – that could change once the season starts.
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I would argue that Cosart and Singleton isn’t a bad return for Pence, either. (We’ll ignore the Bourn return for now)
But there’s a gap between the value of Beltran/Pence and Seth Smith.
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I mean, the trade wouldn’t only have to be Smith either. We can offer a package more enticing than just Smith, but the overall point is that waiting doesn’t necessarily diminish the return and dealing him now means we’re moving him just to move him in the hopes of signing Cuddyer or Willingham.
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of course the bigger question is can DOD really stand pat for the rest of this offseason after he traded Street for nothing to free up salary to not stand pat?
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I guess what I'm saying is that not dealing him now does diminish the return,
with the only possible exception being a flukey All-Star type of first half. The likeliest scenarios though have his value going down fairly rapidly from here on out.
by Rox Girl on Dec 12, 2011 9:40 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I’m not sure it really does. He still has 3 years left of arbitration right? if he were acquired now or in July teams would still be acquiring a guy they’d have for a couple of seasons. I get that he’d have more value now since teams would be acquiring him for longer but unless we think he’ll just collapse I don’t see his value dropping much over the first few months of the season – and certainly not enough to outweigh teams feeling a perceived need for a LH, cheap outfielder. It’s also not as if Blackmon and Wheeler are beating down the door to get playing time. Patience might pay off here.
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What is an acceptable return?
You have said that the Prado deal does not match up (which I agree with).
Maybe I have missed it in a previous Rockpile, but what do you consider an appropriate return for Smith? Is there a specific player you value on another team that could work in trade, or in general terms is/are there prospect(s) you would expect in return?
by MileHighHawkeye on Dec 12, 2011 10:23 AM MST up reply actions
I think I've said in the past I would want to trade Smith on a one for one for a Prado type.
or a slightly lesser version of Prado. I actually think this is somewhere near his actual on field value, because as Heltonfan has pointed out, the one serious flaw with Smith (can’t hit LHP’s) is a predictable and easily mitigated flaw.
I don’t think that the market has that same kind of value for him, however, at it’s a bit less than that, but because platoons have always been undervalued in baseball, I don’t see this fact of life suddenly changing in the next two years. So an acceptable deal to me could be something like Smith and a minor prospect for a decent position player at another position or a pitcher a bit better than Volsad. Salary considerations will complicate this obviously, but hopefully that gives you a general idea where I value him.
would you trade him for Volquez?
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Yes, but I'm likely biased about Volquez, having seen him quite a bit in the last couple of years.
I’m aware that this is likely a mistaken opinion by the numbers.
Eh I like Volquez and don’t live in Cin. I’d consider that trade.
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S would I.
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You've well addressed my concern here
IF we can get Prado, pay for him, AND get a Smith replacement AND still be able to afford the Kuroda-esque veteran we’re lusting after, sure, trade Smith.
But as it stands, Smith is a second-class baseball player because he can only hit 75% of pitchers – albeit very well. There is no WAY we’re going to land the kind of return we need to rationale moving Smith rather than just keep him and platoon him with the Gomes archetype.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 12, 2011 10:54 AM MST up reply actions
*rationalize, not rationale
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 12, 2011 10:55 AM MST up reply actions
Both were Salary Dumps...
Even though they still had one, two years Arbitration left…compliments of Judas Crane. Seth Smith is a poor-mans’ Pence, imo. Who hits from the left-side of the Dish.
Cosart + Singleton was a pretty good return for a salary dump.
Though not everyone has the privilege of trading with Ruben Amaro, Jr.
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Pence is a much more valuable property than Smith.
Had the Astros tried to trade him a year ago at this time, they would have likely received more than Cosart + Singleton, although the sum value of those two prospects was also better regarded then, so that’s a tricky statement for me to make with any certainty.
by Rox Girl on Dec 12, 2011 9:46 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Salary dump or no, that was the highest value to be had for those OF's at the time.
It’s not like non-contending 2011 teams had no desire to have a Hunter Pence or a Michael Bourn for 2012, but the contender premium that the Braves and Phillies paid that Resolution is talking about actually didn’t amount to as much as a lot of people seem to think it would.
by Rox Girl on Dec 12, 2011 9:44 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I see what you’re saying about the ‘premium’ return but I don’t think the return now differs much than the return a few months from now. It’s entirely possible also that one of our million pitchers has a strong start and can be packaged.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
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Again with this "package" thing...
This argument goes to my point. Smith is not as valuable as we think he is.
by Rox Girl on Dec 12, 2011 9:49 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
well lets just assume he’s not as valuable as we think currently or in a few months. What benefits does trading him now afford us other than clearing room to sign Cuddyer or Willingham?
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
PRMLB: The Brew Crew
Because since we have to assume Smith's trade value goes down,
Again, just basic market principles say it is the likeliest outcome, and because we don’t know if a Cuddyer or Willingham type will be available to us later.
So what the Rockies are apparently thinking is that Cuddyer + Colvin + Smith’s current trade return + their salary is going to be more valuable to the team than Smith + Gomes + their salary in 2013.
by Rox Girl on Dec 12, 2011 10:09 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
you may be right about these options not being available to us later
here’s a list of FA outfielders after 2012 that are remotely attractive:
Michael Bourn
Andre Ethier
Josh Hamilton
Carlos Quentin
Luke Scott
B.J. Upton
Not sure if Bourn or Upton really fit the team (though Upton would be super young). No way I’d advocate signing Hamilton – he’ll crumble in the thin air. Ethier and Quentin I like mostly because they seem like they’d be pretty solid Helton replacements…
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
PRMLB: The Brew Crew
I pretty much agree, there are decent players here,
but if we’re talking about who’s likely to sign for the range we’re looking at for Cuddyer, it’s a much trickier call. Especially given that a handful of large markets (LAD with a new owner, CHI, NYY, BOS) that are pretty much sitting out the current class should be back in the market next year
by Rox Girl on Dec 12, 2011 10:28 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
the real trick would have been setting it up so that we trade away Holliday and then sign him a year later as a FA.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
PRMLB: The Brew Crew
and just to make clear that I meant what I typed up there...
The Rockies are not trading Smith, just like they didn’t trade Iannetta, to help the team in 2012. They wouldn’t be signing Cuddyer primarily to help the team in 2012 (although they will spin it this way,) and this is why he’s likely more appealing to them than Willingham because there’s a thought he’s more likely to retain his offensive skill. It’s become pretty clear to me that their real target right now is 2013.
by Rox Girl on Dec 12, 2011 10:25 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
and with a weak division
if something happens in 2012, then that’s just delicious gravy.
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by Junction Rox on Dec 12, 2011 11:20 AM MST up reply actions
All the more reason not to sign Cuddyer
If the target is 2013, why on earth would we go after a guy who doesn’t project very well now and will be half a win or so worse than that a year from now?
And the idea of going after a guy who might, if we’re feeling generous, project as a league-average player, because we’re afraid that next winter players of that caliber won’t be available… I just don’t know what to say to that. Cuddyer doesn’t fit here at all.
by Heltonfan on Dec 12, 2011 10:42 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
The team has dumped a ton of salary already
They have to sign somebody this offseason just for general visibility.
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That's a good point
Having money to burn is an odd situation for us, I hadn’t really thought about it that way.
But still, it doesn’t excuse the choice of player… If we really have a 3/27 contract to offer, let’s throw it at Coco Crisp, who offers all the offensive value of Cuddyer plus a win and a half extra on defense. Or let’s bring in Edwin Jackson. I just can’t believe that the best we can do is to spend $9-10 million a year on a 1.5 WAR guy.
Cuddyer is happening.
He’s our starting (insert position here) next year on Opening Day.
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here
I videotaped a response to the Cuddyer signing
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
PRMLB: The Brew Crew
That's funny
Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
by Thnikkaman on Dec 12, 2011 11:40 AM MST up reply actions 2 recs
hahaha
that poor cat
arenado: it's Rockie for future
I think that was the tagline for awhile
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 12, 2011 11:43 AM MST up reply actions
lol it was. well, this time it’s about a signing that isn’t the best but isn’t the worst. Last time I think it was because our season/team imploded.
Progress!!
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You're right
I hate that you’re right.
HATE.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 12, 2011 10:56 AM MST up reply actions
Despite my antagonism at times, I tend to agree with you generally on your projections,
I’m biased with Cuddyer specifically, and I was before the Rockies started expressing their interest, so I don’t agree here, on pseudo-analytical grounds for his offense. I’m aware that I’m on shakier ground with the evidence though, so I can just say that we’ll see.
@Ken_Rosenthal
Sources: #Rockes making “aggressive push” for Cuddyer. Can play 3B, LF, 1B. Believed to be seeking 3 yrs, $30M. #Twins also in mix. #MLB
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Rewritten:
Sources: #Rockes making "aggressive push" for Cuddyer. Enjoys many positions. Can play3B, LF,1B. Believed to be seeking 3 yrs, $30M. #Twins also in mix. #MLB
check his ADR at 1B
he sucks there too
it’s like a better batting, inexplicably WORSE fielding Wigginton.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 12, 2011 10:56 AM MST up reply actions
I said this the other day, but it's hard to field with torn knee ligaments.
The thing we need to do is make sure he says something when he’s hurt. I really doubt his defense is as disastrous as his ADR.
Having had torn knee ligaments is not a point in his favor.
It can’t be. Maybe it means he’s 3-4 runs better in the field (if healthy) than the projections say, but it also means that he has a higher chance of getting re-injured and going on the DL… there’s just no way that an injury like that is a net positive.
If a pitcher spends a year throwing hurt
and has terrible numbers that year, gets TJ surgery and comes back pitching much better, the surgery is a net positive, no? The pitcher is better with the surgery than without, and if the numbers fit the timeline and back up that the injury, not the skill level was to blame for the poor showing, you have to consider that, right?
The injury is certainly not a net positive, but the surgery to repair said injury could be.
Well, a pitcher post-TJ is still a big injury risk
I think the fallacy here is that once a player has had surgery, the problem is gone. It’s not. The risk factors are still there…. if he’s had knee problems before, he’s got an increased likelihood of having them again. Particularly since this isn’t a young player we’re talking about.
Sure, I'm not saying that it's not a risk.
I think you’re being fairly eloquent on that point right now, but your statement above makes it seem that it’s an absolute positive that he’s as bad a defender as his cumulative defensive stats (including that playing through pain season in 2010) suggest. I think it’s weird that you’re accusing me of engaging in the fallacy here.
Also, he’s not young, but he’s also not too old for surgeries of this type to have a good chance of recovery.
Also...
Even if we give Cuddyer the benefit of doubt on the injury by ignoring his 2010 offensive numbers and bumping up his defensive projection by three runs, he still only projects at league average. And he’s still turning 33 in March, no amount of hand-waving can change that. ;)
I’m trying to see the upside here… I want to, because it’s looking more and more like this is actually going to happen. But I can’t see it. I’d be really surprised if Cuddyer was worth more than 5 WAR over the next three years.
That's about the break even point, right?
5 WAR would be worth $29 million. I think I was in favor of signing him for up $27M, at $30M I’m sketchy, so I guess that’s about what I’m assuming.
Breakeven certainly isn't MISERABLE
But if we could hypothetically get a corner OF platoon for a profit, why wouldn’t we?
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 12, 2011 11:44 AM MST up reply actions
5 WAR would be $36 million
I’ll say it until I’m blue in the face: this $5m/win assumption is nonsense.
And I don’t think I’ve posted this before, so here’s NEIFI’s year-by-year forecast for him:
2012: 1.30 WAR
2013: 0.72 WAR
2014: 0.04 WAR
Total 2.06
The break-even point would be 4 WAR… I said 5 WAR above because I don’t think paying the market rate is anything a team should aspire to…
2.06 WAR for three seasons? That seems like an astronomically low projection.
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Father Time is a jackass.
Not much else to it.
I get how harsh over-32 players rate in projections
but yeesh. That’s just plain ugly.
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Well...
Obviously, the biggest variable in this is Cuddyer’s 2012 projection. But if we take the name Michael Cuddyer out of it, and if I told you that a player projecting at 1.3 WAR at age 33 is projected for 0.76 WAR over the remainder of his career after that age-33 season, would you find it strange? Probably not, right? Cuddyer’s at the age now when mediocre players just disappear, never to be heard from again,
his 2008 and 2010 certainly give weight to the argument that at least one of three seasons will be entirely lost.
I can definitely see a scenario where we get < 3WAR total out of Cuddyer over a 3 year period.
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Yep
And he wasn’t even that old in his previous down years… now there’s a very real chance that a) at least 2 of these next three years will be clunkers and b) the age 33-35 clunkers will be worse than the age 29 and 31 ones (in other words, he might actually slip below replacement level).
:(
I was on the “sign Cuddyer because we have to sign someone and at least he’ll be a decent bat” wagon, but now I’m just depressed.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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If it makes you feel better
NEIFI projected Cuddyer to only post a 0.29 WAR for this season.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 12, 2011 1:36 PM MST up reply actions
he'll be 33 before opening day
and has significant knee troubles
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Thanks, I actually feel much better about Cuddyer now,
I do think NEIFI’s wrong about him. I think the Rockies should get at least 4 WAR out of this.
If you look at the numbers pre-injury
he’s probably not 3-4 runs better in the field. He’s so, so slow to react in the OF (that is a personal observation from having watched him in TF for the last two years).
it's a SS, so that's my bad
But it does fit with his “not a good fielder” persona
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 12, 2011 11:20 AM MST up reply actions
"Can"
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 12, 2011 10:56 AM MST up reply actions
More of what we already know ...
The Twins have been in contact with Josh Willingham’s agents Monday, reports Darren Wolfson of ESPN 1500.
A deal is not close, according to Wolfson, who writes that the Twins are waiting for Michael Cuddyer’s decision first. Cuddyer has a three-year, $25 million contract offer from the Twins but is being courted heavily by the Rockies. Willingham will probably come cheaper, is better offensively, and would allow the Twins to net a pair of draft picks when Cuddyer signs elsewhere, but Minnesota prefers the incumbent because he’s a strong locker room presence and offers a bit of defensive versatility (though he’s below average at alternate positions). Stay tuned.
Cuddyer was revalued from Type A status, right?
It won’t cost us a pick to sign him.
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isn't our pick protected anyway?
arenado: it's Rockie for future
it would have been a 2nd rounder
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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/marlinsed
arenado: it's Rockie for future
dude, bernie cosart is like 48
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 12, 2011 9:49 AM MST up reply actions
Yet, teh other night, you said they we should trade Arenado.
No freaking way
69 today, 68 tomorrow is how many days remain until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
by Roxman4ever on Dec 12, 2011 8:29 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Pretty sure either Cuddyer or Willingham would be playing left field. Didn’t I read earlier this offseason that CarGo’s going to play right almost exclusively, just like he did through the end of last season?
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
unless an acquisition changes things
That’s how I’ve read it at least.
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
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by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 12, 2011 8:08 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
yeahhhhh I don't believe a word that comes out of Tracy's mouth.
Plus, I edited it to say “corner OF slot”.
It doesn’t really matter. If Cargo plays RF, Smith should play LF.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 12, 2011 8:09 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I'd rather have Cargo's range in LF.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Agreed
The point is more Smith + Cargo = LF + RF, in no particular order
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 12, 2011 11:21 AM MST up reply actions
How would you write this article if you were told DO'D is not interested in Cuddyer/Willingham?
He is interested in Prado (this year’s Michael Young) or, MORE IMPORTANTLY, he will spend the $$$ on PITCHING.
That is all. Stop worrying about Cuddyer/Willingham because, as you say, all that does is add a few inches to the hill. DO’D is not going there.
Prado is 28, and will make about $7-8M
Michael Young was 34 last off-season, and made about $17M this year.
Prado is capable of playing average to good defense at 2B and 3B. Young has demonstrated that he is not.
Much as I like the words you typed
The Denver Beat sees it differently.
On the other hand, Tiger Beat also sees it differently
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 12, 2011 8:13 AM MST up reply actions
Then your thesis is exactly correct....
And we should scream from the mountain tops to spend money on pitching first, and settle for a platoon RH bat. (Or minor league Rox such as Wheeler might be the guy.)
I hope that the Denver Beat and Tiger Beat are just speculating IF we go down this path, then these are the guys……
I guess our response is: Don’t go down that path.
I'm 98% with you
the 2% is that I don’t see platooning Smith as “settling”. I find it maximizing the offensive potential of one defensive position.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 12, 2011 10:58 AM MST up reply actions
Will "Bustah" Rhymes ...
In effect.
The Tigers have non-tendered Willy Rhymes.
Rhymes, 28, batted just .235/.323/.271 with three extra-base hits in 99 plate appearances this year for Detroit. He’s now a free agent and can sign with any team.
His 2010 was less awful …
by Traindogger on Dec 12, 2011 12:12 PM MST up reply actions
We need production to follow/protect our 3-4 hitters. Plain and Simple. We need another semi-feared bat in the 5 hole.
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
At the same time, I say wait til next year to see if there is a move that boosts us more than what one of these guys will do, not in favor of Cuddy or Willi. I say continue with the Great Marginal Arms Race
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 12, 2011 8:05 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
A Smith/Gomes platoon does that
Evner if they’re not “feared” they’d drive in a lot of runs.
Then I am fine with that but there needs to be production and a lot of it from that 5 hole. 20 HRS and 80 RBI’s doesn’t count in my book. We need the 3rd guy in our lineup that can pop out 30 hrs or at least 25 while driving in Cargo and Tulo when they are on base.
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 12, 2011 8:08 AM MST up reply actions
What player capable of that is really available?
Willingham has done it exactly zero times. Cuddyer has also done it once, and that was in 2009.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 12, 2011 8:15 AM MST up reply actions
Just saying
Cuddyer OPS + 2009: 124
Cuddyer OPS + 2011: 121
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
where’s 2010 on that list?
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
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you shut up.
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 12, 2011 9:22 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Cuddyer v. RHP, last four seasons
wRC+: 87, 112, 90, 101. Not quite a RH Smith, but somewhat similar to Hawpe v. LHP from 2007-2010: 65, 109, 94, 112.
It’s hard to imagine that Cuddyer will improve and find consistency v. RHP going forward. And, what happens when Cuddyer stops mashing lefties, like when Hawpe stopped mashing righties? 88 and 87 wRC+ v. RHP in 2010 and 2011.
I think Willingham has hit 25+ HR’s twice in a season I thought. And I don’t think anybody is gonna hit too many bombs in Target field. Place is huge and not much of a jet stream.
Not saying there is one available. But we need more production our of our 5 and 6 holes if we are gonna win. Todd is almost down to doubles and singles. He did alrI don’t have a solution because I am not sure Willingham or Cuddyer is the solution.
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 12, 2011 8:21 AM MST up reply actions
Willingham had a K% of 26.6% last year. Ugh.
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might as well sign Mark Reynolds
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 12, 2011 8:31 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
yeah he can play the OF right?
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 12, 2011 8:34 AM MST up reply actions
Target is still pretty favorable to LF
339 to the wall in left, 377 in left center. The wall is not extraordinarily high. Cuddyer does all of his damage pulling the ball. The wind is pretty neutral; sometimes it swirls in the stadium.
Cuddyer is no victim of the stadium.
Agreed on both Willingham & Cuddyer
Too expensive for platoon players, don’t add enough (if anything) to the production obtainanable at lower cost from Smith + platoon partner.
Even if Smith brings a Prado-level IF to plug the 2B hole, the remaining LH outfielder (Blackmon or Wheeler or, if he recovers to 2010 level, Colvin) can STILL be paired with a RH platoon partner for far less money than Willingham or Cuddyer will cost. And that money can be spent on pitching.
I see from Renck’s article today that Spilly would come back to be the platoon partner for less money than he’d get in arbitration. No thank you. Time to turn that page.
Interesting guess at the substance taken by Braun
at Baseball Musings. A legal supplement that can convert into testosterone inside the body called DHEA.
Should have made a strong run at a legitimate RH-hitting OF a couple of years ago
and kept Smith in the 4th OF/late-inning PH role in which he excelled. At that time, a guy like Willingham might have been the key piece that puts you squarely in contention – in which case, you gladly overpay a bit. Now that the landscape has changed, I agree with the article that it makes less sense.
I agree with you here, AMart...
I have a feeling of bleh when these two names are bandied about. I wonder if a trade for Carlos Quentin would be worth it? — since the White Sox are in rebuild mode.
Your ManCrush for Gordo is duly noted...
And why would the ChiSox deal a First Round Draft Pick that still has Three Years left ’till Free Agency? Especially since they are now re-building? Do you see what they want for Danks (Two of either Banuelos, Betances, and Montero)?
because he sucks
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 12, 2011 8:47 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
I mean, he's not horrid as Stewart was
But his decline would be their motivation for moving him, if they did
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 12, 2011 8:59 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
????
“(you know, the handpicked Tulo team)” Andrew, would you mind explaining this statement you made……….or would we find your answer obvious? Meaning exactly, what it says………………WOW!!!!!
Andrew and I have talked about this one
it refers to the guys that Tulo invites to work out with him during the offseason.
Last season, it was Nolan Arenado and Tim Wheeler — both enjoy breakout seasons in the minors.
This year, it’s Nolan Arenado, Dexter Fowler, and Josh Rutledge. Tulo is basically handpicking guys from the minors and taking him under his wing, especially infielders.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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That's because Stewart was busy playing Modern Warfare 3 instead of working out
C’mon, Rox Girl. Get with the program.
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by Muzia on Dec 12, 2011 8:45 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Got what he deserved >:[
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
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by A.J. Haefele on Dec 12, 2011 4:55 PM MST up reply actions
the question is, Is Stewarts K/D higher than his batting average?
PRMLB - Tampa Bay Rays
l wasn't belng snarky, just thought l read somewhere that Glambl and Tulo were
havlng a tralnlng camp at Nevada. Actually there was qulte a dlscusslon at a Chrlstmas party l attended after the Braun news broke. One man even trled to make the connectlon of Tulo- belng close frlends of Braun and Glambl and Peds. ..
In all things, it is better to hope than despair.
you're absolutely correct
Giambi and Tulo are doing this together.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 12, 2011 9:49 AM MST up reply actions
watch your modifiers, man!
Giambi and Tulo are conducting workouts in Nevada together.
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 12, 2011 9:52 AM MST up reply actions
thank you :) Thls ls one more thlng that glves me pause
In all things, it is better to hope than despair.
as Muzia asserts, that is not a blind claim, but actually based on well publicized facts
No speculation involved
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 12, 2011 8:48 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
milb.com
Posted a Q&A with Tim Wheeler today.. too hard for me to link on mobile
"Don't give up, don't ever give up" - Jim Valvano
by nodakroxfan on Dec 12, 2011 8:45 AM MST via mobile reply actions
ATTN: Thnikkman
MiLB.com: Any particular selections for at-bat music?
Wheeler: I switched a couple of times last year. I’m not sure about next year, I couldn’t tell you — I’ll have to wait to next year. I used You Might Die Trying by The Dave Matthews Band, and in the past I’ve used the song The Fire by The Roots.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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by Muzia on Dec 12, 2011 9:01 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Well
The chances of ever seeing him at Coors just became zero. Does he not know the playlist there only consists of light christian rock and annoying Latin beeping sounds.
Justin Bieber would like a word
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Dave Mathews is worse than Hitler.
PRMLB - The San Francisco Giants are better than you
by biondino on Dec 12, 2011 9:15 AM MST up reply actions 5 recs
aaaand this is the comment of the day. It’s funny and it’s true – funny and true.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
PRMLB: The Brew Crew
flec'd it
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 12, 2011 9:39 AM MST up reply actions
Then you would not have enjoyed
attending the Univ. of Arizona (or probably anywhere) in the late 90s. Completely unavoidable, regardless of setting.
I think you've taken like 2 players and turned that into the entire history of Rockies At Bat Music
Seth Smith had the only Christian song last season, with “Manifesto” by The City Harmonic. Cargo had “Abusadora” by Wisin and Yandel, so there’s your beeping sounds…
Yep, that adds up to ~40.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 12, 2011 9:27 AM MST up reply actions
oh
could’ve fooled me!
/tapdance
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 12, 2011 9:50 AM MST up reply actions
So.....who's going to be playing 3rd again?
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 12, 2011 9:13 AM MST reply actions
Who?
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
I Don't Know..
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 12, 2011 9:31 AM MST up reply actions
huh....
you guys thought I was joking.
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 12, 2011 9:32 AM MST up reply actions
My answer is the same either way....
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 12, 2011 9:40 AM MST up reply actions
fair nuff.
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 12, 2011 9:40 AM MST up reply actions
Not huh. HU
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Christopher.Nelson
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
PRMLB: The Brew Crew
also
if keppinger is non tendered he conceivably could man 3b until Arenado arrives at which point he’d be a good utility inf
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
PRMLB: The Brew Crew
Arenado=Baseball Tebow
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 12, 2011 9:53 AM MST up reply actions
say it louder!
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
PRMLB: The Brew Crew
Good article ...
I agree with the general premise that Cuddyer/Willingham are marginal improvements to a hole we don’t have. While Willingham is certainly more steady with the bat and avoids the splits that plague Smith, he isn’t an improvement in the OF and he is likely too pricey on a 3yr deal at age 32-35. Basically the same with Cuddyer, with more emphasis on the fact that he isn’t good at any one position on the diamond.
The problem is that every single one of our other candidates (Blackmon/Wheeler/Colvin – all lefthanded hitters) for RF (or LF if Cargo is going to man RF) have the same issue with LH pitching (I am having difficulty finding career stat splits for minor leaguers … anyone?). This is why the trade for Colvin is so puzzling … he is just another of many we have already in the system. Give me a platoon partner for Smith to play 25% of the time against RH pitching and yeah, I’m happy.
Problem is, Smith is one of our few expendable pieces given the influx of LH OFers on the roster. And we do have a hole at 2nd/3rd. So I can see why he is being dangled. I mean … would we really complain if one (or all) of Blackmon/Wheeler/Colvin were thrown to the wolves in LF only against RH pitching? At least they can field the position and one of them might just be ready/able to contribute in that role.
However, that is also why I think Wheeler/Blackmon are expendable – they profile to have the very same splits that Smith has, and their value may never be higher. I am not sold on either as even an average regular, though I do hold out some hope for Wheeler, but am also scared of his home/road splits – Tulsa being very a favorable hitting environment. The advantage to these guys, obviously, is that they are cheaper than Smith who is going to see his salary increase. And like I said, their value will probably never be higher.
So yeah, if we can fill at least one hole on the IF without trading Smith, and we can find a RH platoon partner at a reasonable cost (Jerry Hairston?), then I am all for it. Use the money saved to get pitching – I for one, would like to see Edwin Jackson/Wandy Rodriguez/Ervin Santana/one of the Miami pitchers or Volquez. And I am okay with trading Wheeler and/or Blackmon if that is what it takes.
Wheeler has shown some concerning splits against LHP in the minors
Blackmon has not.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
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ON With the Arms Race!
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 12, 2011 10:10 AM MST up reply actions
ZiPS on Willingham:
From Fangraphs chat with Dan Szymborski:
Comment From Big MikeBig Mike:
Willingham hit 29 HR with Oakland in 2011. If he signs in Colorado?
Dan Szymborski: ZiPS has Willingham at 20 in 408 AB in Oakland in 2012, 25 in 410 in Colorado.
RMN& RG?...
I’ve wanted better defense which has been on the decline scince 2009 here. I’m not a fan of the TTO batting style. My biggest problems with CDI were behind the plate. I thought he was costing our pitchers. I want the Rox as a team to take the base hit that’s presented to them instead of trying to jack impossible to hit out pitches. I’m not saying walks aren’t valuble. They are essential for getting people on base. The reason you’re up there though is to knock in runs. While it is possible to walk in a run; you won’t walk in two in the same AB.
You are not going to walk in the Runner from second when a base hit can.I’m not sure we targeted the right people from the gitgo. I’m not impressed withe fall haul of pitchers. We seem to be guilty of looking for set types instead of having some variety. Matzek being a hybrid Marshall pitcher is more the exception. His pitches will arrive from different angles than most people are used to seeing which I think explains both his high K and BB rates partially.
I liked the Met’s Murphy’s Bat better than Prado because of how he produced in Citi Field gave me hope he’d produce in Petco and Dodger stadium and whatever the stadium will be called in SF next week. But his knees and his defense at 2b made me pull for Prado. I wanted Headley to fill in for Nolan and to eventually replace Todd He also could if need be platoon in the OF.At this point if we can’t get a reasonable bat for 2b I’d rather have Nelson and Herrea’s steady glove out there than a tin glove that might smack seven homers instead of three.I’d rather let Pacheco and JD battle it out for 3b then spend the money for something marginally better.I’d rather admit our playoff hopes are on hold this year and slip a little extra money in the stocking stuffers for those whose chances are are going to suffer otherwise.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
100% agree about the OF defense
While Cargo is solid, Dex’s defense is average (though there is seemingly great potential). This is what would have made Pagan and his above average defense at all three spots such an attractive trade candidate. If one of the prospects blossomed, he becomes an (expensive, but) talented fourth OF or trade chip.
With our collection of ground ball pitchers I'm nervous about accepting less defense at 2b for a marginally better bat,
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Aramis Ramirez appears to be gone
@ESPNChiCubs: Breaking news ; MLB source tells ESPN CHICAGO A Ramierz signed a 3 yr deal with Brewers pending physical.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
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Does this mean that McGehee is available?
69 today, 68 tomorrow is how many days remain until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
by Roxman4ever on Dec 12, 2011 10:47 AM MST up reply actions
Probably not untill Braun serves his suspension.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Phillies announce trade of OF Ben Francisco to Toronto for LHP Frank Gailey.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
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Weird reverse platoon thing happening there last year
But until that I’d have said he’s the LH Seth Smith.
Why didn't WE sign the LH Seth Smith?!?!1one?curlything!?
PRMLB - The San Francisco Giants are better than you
Platoon
Why can’t Cuddyer and Smith platoon together? Seems like it would give the Rockies the best chance to win.
BECAUSE PAYING CUDDYER $9M A YEAR TO PLAY 45 GAMES IS IDIOCY.
PRMLB - The San Francisco Giants are better than you
:X
I’m sure Tracy can fit him somewhere in the lineup ;)
by DesertTurtle on Dec 12, 2011 10:58 AM MST up reply actions
It would, and I think there could be enough AB's to be had by both with Helton declining and a pit of wonders at third base
Not saying that we’d want to play Cuddyer there often, but against weaker SP’s it could make sense. The two salaries might not fit in the Rockies budget, however, if they want to add more pitching as well.
by Rox Girl on Dec 12, 2011 10:58 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
pit of wonders at third base
What a marvelous phrase.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
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hello new tagline
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 12, 2011 11:18 AM MST up reply actions
That's kinda saying the Angels got Pujols because the Cards didn't offer "Earth and Water"
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Do we know who we got from Philly in the trade for Wiggy?
69 today, 68 tomorrow is how many days remain until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
We didnt trade them Alan Johsnon
69 today, 68 tomorrow is how many days remain until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
by Roxman4ever on Dec 12, 2011 11:04 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Not unless Wiggy meets their goals for them. We might get nothing!
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
it will probably be cash
But there is still 5 months left before a ptbnl has to be named
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 12, 2011 11:02 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
Didn't know we had to wait 5 months.
We might get a scrub from A ball.
69 today, 68 tomorrow is how many days remain until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
by Roxman4ever on Dec 12, 2011 11:05 AM MST up reply actions
Yeah.
we traded Wigginton.
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 12, 2011 11:15 AM MST up reply actions
if we don't get anything back at all
we’ll still have won the trade
arenado: it's Rockie for future
what if the ptbnl is Ty Wigginton?
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
PRMLB: The Brew Crew
by Resolution on Dec 12, 2011 11:16 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
i will kill you
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Jose Lopez!
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
He could strike out, ground out and fly out
That’s versatility right there….
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 12, 2011 11:43 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Is that referred to as a golden chapeaux?
Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
hey man I’m just the messenger
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
PRMLB: The Brew Crew
sorry, i don't make the rules
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Then I say we post a hit man
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
we don't have to
We have six months to select a player from the pre-approved list. It can be before that, as it was with Street. But there’s no buzz on players, and we wouldn’t be waiting to see how that list of players perform in the offseason. So it’ll likely be cash. Or already has been.
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 12, 2011 11:25 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
@Renck
Phillies trade of Francisco opens up poential landing spot for Spilborghs. Phils have liked Spilborghs for a few years as RH bat off bench
Who else can we give to the phillies?
Jim Tracy
2011 - not even light can escape
by Rosenort on Dec 12, 2011 11:27 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
THIS
69 today, 68 tomorrow is how many days remain until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
by Roxman4ever on Dec 12, 2011 11:28 AM MST up reply actions
it would be worth it.
They wouldnt be here
69 today, 68 tomorrow is how many days remain until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
by Roxman4ever on Dec 12, 2011 11:30 AM MST up reply actions
Would Spilly be a trade or a FA signing?
69 today, 68 tomorrow is how many days remain until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
by Roxman4ever on Dec 12, 2011 11:28 AM MST up reply actions
he's a non-tender candidate
so it could be either at this point
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Today's the drop-dead date on an offer to Spilly
So why would the Phillies offer anything for him? Tomorrow he’s theirs for the taking.
by Northsider1964 on Dec 12, 2011 11:30 AM MST up reply actions
Other teams might be quietly interested
and the Phils might prefer to just trade for him and work out tendering a contract rather than bidding for his services.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 12, 2011 11:35 AM MST up reply actions
In theory, yes
But I cannot imagine the Phils being too concerned about getting shut out of the red-hot Ryan Spilbourghs market.
by Northsider1964 on Dec 12, 2011 11:38 AM MST up reply actions
Oh, I agree.
You just asked why, so I figured I’d throw that out there.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 12, 2011 11:40 AM MST up reply actions
hey now
he’s good at….
stuff…
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Stuff = picking walk-up songs
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 12, 2011 12:18 PM MST up reply actions
...thus proving that skill can regress as well...
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
We could" improve" their defense at SS by sending EY2
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Nice writeup Andrew
I don’t agree with your conclusion though. I’ll probably have to throw a fanpost together tomorrow to accurately organize my thoughts and argue the other side because I think a Cuddyer could significantly improve this offense (especially if Tracy is still the manager).
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 12, 2011 11:45 AM MST reply actions
See, that's the damn wrench in any plan
Stupid Jim Tracy won’t play the team optimally, so what’s the point of even trying to optimize this? I feel like we all have great ideas, but we’re dealing with an Art Howe vs Billy Beane RE: Scott Hatteburg situation here.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 12, 2011 11:47 AM MST up reply actions 2 recs
Sad but true
I was really digging into the 2011 numbers last night and your point about “the best players should play” really hit home. I mean I realized it was basd from watching it all year but i think the hard numbers (games played/PA"s allowed from terrible players) it’s even worse than I thought – And some of it (certainly not all though) could have been avoided.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 12, 2011 11:51 AM MST up reply actions
but, but MATCHUPZZZ
The off-season sucks.
That is all.
by DAWNMARIE01 on Dec 12, 2011 12:08 PM MST up reply actions
Thoughts on the Price for Aramis Ramirez?
3 years in neighborhood of $34 million.
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
Bargain.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
I think its a decent deal. When I think about Cuddyer at $10 and Aram at $11/12 I think Dang…..rather have A Ram
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 12, 2011 12:05 PM MST up reply actions
It's definitely going to be interesting three years from now
to see which of the three of Ramirez/Cuddyer/Willingham looks best in hindsight.
Because the next thing is…is that we rush Arenado too much because we had a hole to fill
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 12, 2011 12:08 PM MST up reply actions
I actually think Rosario's a greater risk of being rushed
I don’t know if a player’s level the season before has as much to do with a player being rushed as the skills that they currently have. Arenado’s high contact skills suggest to me that he’d be able to adjust and continue to grow at the MLB level, Rosario’s don’t.
I’m not too worried about Arenado, I think the kid can flat out ‘ball’ and has ‘it’ just figures that it would happen to the Rockies
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 12, 2011 12:14 PM MST up reply actions
I think it goes without saying
That NEIFI thinks 3/35 or whatever for A-Ram is all kinds of awful. He’s basically exactly the same player as Cuddyer (same offensive value, and an abominable defensive 3B isn’t any more valuable defensively than a bad corner OF).
Don't take this the wrong way
But NEIFI is awfully depressing
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 12, 2011 12:13 PM MST up reply actions
Given its namesake, it seems to suit.
by Rox Girl on Dec 12, 2011 12:13 PM MST up reply actions 2 recs
.

Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
must be a pre-PEDs shot
arenado: it's Rockie for future
all players suck
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 12, 2011 12:16 PM MST via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
Depressing?
Yep, I know what you mean… all I can say in defense is that if you add up all the players’ projections, weighted by projected MLB playing time, they come out at league average or a hair above… so there’s no grounds for calling NEIFI pessimistic. It just illustrates how we tend to overrate players when we don’t have a projection system at our disposal…
What was Berkman projected at in 2011?
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 12, 2011 12:29 PM MST up reply actions
I think he was like 2.2 or something.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 12, 2011 12:36 PM MST up reply actions
Berkman was projected at 3.0 WAR last year
NEIFI doesn’t hate all old players, but guys over 35 really do have to have an outstanding performance record to escape its wrath.
I think overall it's pretty fair
I think it still underpredicts some players though the real disappointments are usually from injury. For instance, last year I think NEIFI predicted Mauer to be the second best player in baseball. However his got hurt and his season was a disaster. For the total WAR in MLB to stack up with the total WAR of NEIFI, all the lost WAR from unpredicable injuries like a Mauer or Hanley Ramirez has to go somewhere.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 12, 2011 12:34 PM MST up reply actions
Wow
I am having major issues formulating sentences today.
/sigh
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 12, 2011 12:37 PM MST up reply actions
Mauer, HRam, etc.
Right… that’s why the pre-season projections should come out slightly above average in the aggregate… and they do.
So if I understand NEIFI right, Mauer will probably be under projected now because NEIFI will hate his 2011 season?
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 12, 2011 1:08 PM MST up reply actions
Mauer projects at 4.1 WAR
I’ll let you judge for yourself whether that’s underprojecting him or not. But his 2011 season has most certainly reduced all reasonable expectations of him.
I actually think the opposite is also true, though
certain players get overrated and others underrated because of a projection system.
I think a savvy team will try to identify two types of bargains:
1) players with solid projections that aren’t being properly valued by the market
2) players that are getting undervalued because of their projections
I think SABRmetrics focuses on the one to the complete disregard of the other. I think the better scouting/development teams take the opposite approach. I think a balance between the two approaches could be found, though.
I'd be picking and choosing to say I'd trust that and not Cuddyer,
Which is exactly what I’m doing. Ramirez’s injuries for some reason suggest more to be worried about to me.
And yet ...
ARam put up wRC+ of 133 in 2011 (higher than any Cuddyer season), and never below 124 save for 2010. But yeah, he’s a butcher at 3rd … but I really don’t see Cuddyer being any better at any position.
by Traindogger on Dec 12, 2011 12:17 PM MST up reply actions
Lance Berkman was suppose to be a butcher in the OF for STL and really wasn’t suppose to do very much at the plate #Toughtoproject
Adam Dunn was a staple of consistency for 8 straight years (of 35 HR or more and 92RBI or more) and straight fell off a table #Tough to Project
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 12, 2011 12:19 PM MST up reply actions
Why does NEIFI hate it?
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 12, 2011 12:17 PM MST up reply actions
Why?
Because A-Ram is getting old, was awful in 2010, and is the worst defensive 3B in baseball.
.

Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
I'm gonna miss
the many faces of Ty Wigginton.
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 12, 2011 12:20 PM MST up reply actions
Trust me
You won’t
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 12, 2011 12:22 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I won't miss
Wiggy the player, just Wiggy the Purple Row meme.
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 12, 2011 12:22 PM MST up reply actions
I'm not.
Looking at that makes my eyes hurt.
The off-season sucks.
That is all.
by DAWNMARIE01 on Dec 12, 2011 12:22 PM MST up reply actions
BANNED
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=897jlnmTYqE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uQ76qrlK78
68 today, 67 tomorrow is how many days remain until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
by Roxman4ever on Dec 12, 2011 12:21 PM MST up reply actions
You don't get to ban people.
I do.
And RG does.
And those other people at the bottom of the page.
Purple Row - For all of your Colorado Rockies-related needs
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 12, 2011 3:07 PM MST up reply actions
well.... I guess he still can
/awaits banning from Russ because Russ is a smartass like that
Purple Row - For all of your Colorado Rockies-related needs
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 12, 2011 3:32 PM MST up reply actions
I think we warned himself once
and then Grant warned him stating his disquiet with the fact that Russ was warning himself.
Purple Row - For all of your Colorado Rockies-related needs
Learn about Batting Metrics
Learn about Pitching Metrics
PRMLB Marlins
by Andrew Martin on Dec 12, 2011 3:36 PM MST up reply actions
I know
68 today, 67 tomorrow is how many days remain until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
You go, Amart.
I thought 2011 sucked pretty bad. I have nothing to add to that.
by prettyinpurple on Dec 12, 2011 3:22 PM MST up reply actions
Damn you Muzia! Damn you all to hell!!
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Does NEIFI hate all players one they get to 35?
I can’t remember for sure but didn’t it predict a negative WAR for Helton this season?
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 12, 2011 12:21 PM MST up reply actions
NEIFI projected 0.8 WAR for Helton this year
But of course, it substantially overestimated him in 2010, you have to remember that too…
I'm pretty sure I remember seeing a negative WAR projected for Helton this season
(and I usually have a pretty good memory about stuff like this)
/It probably overpredicted everyone else on the Rockies that wasn’t Tulo though so there is that I guess.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 12, 2011 12:48 PM MST up reply actions
That may have been a previous version of NEIFI
If I remember right, I changed the aging factors at some point during the previous offseason.
That must be it
Here’s where I saw the negtive projection for Helton. (It’s also where I saw the 2.2/2.3 projection for Berkman) These players much have gotten a bump.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 12, 2011 1:23 PM MST up reply actions
Yep
Last winter, I discovered that my aging factors were too harsh. The factors I’m using now are actually slightly kinder than the data would suggest they should be, so now I really doubt that NEIFI is being too vicious as far as aging is concerned.
And just because I have to know
What does NEIFI predict for Tulo next year?
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 12, 2011 1:41 PM MST up reply actions
/RIRF suddenly supports NEIFI
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
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by Muzia on Dec 12, 2011 2:02 PM MST up reply actions 3 recs
hehe
I thought 2011 sucked pretty bad. I have nothing to add to that.
by prettyinpurple on Dec 12, 2011 2:03 PM MST up reply actions
Well
At the very least, I guess I have to take back that comment about it being depressing. If Heltonfan followed up that comment with this piece of information, he probably would have shut me up right there :-)
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 12, 2011 2:07 PM MST up reply actions
Fun Tulo fact
Using the now-current market rate of $6.84m/win (it’s ballooned a lot over the past week or so… Pujols, Buehrle, and estimated A-Ram and Cuddyer contracts have really driven it up), if Tulo were a free agent this winter, he should sign for 10 years, $318 million.
by Heltonfan on Dec 12, 2011 2:10 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Pujols
What “should” he have signed for?
by MileHighHawkeye on Dec 12, 2011 2:13 PM MST up reply actions
Wow
So even NEIFI which does not like aging players projects Tulo to average 4.65 WAR per year from now until he turns 37?
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 12, 2011 2:18 PM MST up reply actions
Nope
Average 3.6 WAR per year. You’re forgetting the 5% annual inflation.
Of course, this is contingent on the assumption that the $6.84m/win observed this winter is the true market rate. I don’t think it is… last winter was $5.72 million, so either annual inflation is a lot higher than 5% (unlikely), last year was flukishly low (unlikely, because it was considerably higher than previous years), or this year is flukishly high. I’d ballpark the “true” 2011 winter rate at $6.3m/win… somewhere between the expected $6m/win (based on last year’s figure) and the observed.
you have no one else topping 6 WAR?
that would definitely confirm NEIFI as a “downer” projection system in my mind, anyway
arenado: it's Rockie for future
If that's your standard
Then all remotely credible projection systems are “downers”. Of course more than 1 player will exceed 6 WAR, but that doesn’t matter… if you look at the top 15 or so projected players, NEIFI nails them in the aggregate.
At least it usually does. This year featured so many huge disappointments (Pujols, Mauer, Morneau, Hanley, Choo) that NEIFI actually appears to have been too optimistic.
If you think NEIFI is a downer, your beef isn’t with NEIFI, it’s with reality. ;)
19 hitters hit 6 or more fWAR last year, and 6 pitchers
what’s your projections for say, evan longoria, miguel cabrera, joey votto, albert pujols, jose bautista, adrian gonzalez, roy halladay, cc sabathia, justin verlander, clayton kershaw, cole hamels, dan haren, and cliff lee?
arenado: it's Rockie for future
I use a higher replacement level for pitchers than FanGraphs does
Verlander is the only pitcher who cracks 5 WAR for me. Well, Verlander and Darvish. Darvish’s Japanese league numbers are absolutely insane… he’s going to break every projection system around.
But the fact that 19 players hit 6 WAR proves nothing. The purpose of a projection system is not to produce a set of results that looks like a typical end-of-season set of results, it’s to produce an accurate over-under line for each player.
what’s your projections for say, evan longoria, miguel cabrera, joey votto, albert pujols, jose bautista, adrian gonzalez
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Top 15 position players
Tulowitzki, Troy 6.01
Bautista, Jose 5.80
Longoria, Evan 5.55
Cabrera, Miguel 5.40
Kemp, Matt 5.36
Pedroia, Dustin 5.24
Pujols, Albert 5.20
Gonzalez, Adrian 4.95
Zobrist, Ben 4.77
Kinsler, Ian 4.74
Stanton, Mike 4.72
Votto, Joey 4.67
Reyes, Jose 4.64
Braun, Ryan 4.60
Ellsbury, Jacoby 4.51
Some of those guys will finish above 6 WAR. But collectively, they’ll end up right around the 5 WAR average, I’m quite confident of that.
since 2007, the average number of players to beat 6.0 WAR, not just be within a margin of error,
has been around 20.
6 players did it in strike-shortened 1994, 4 in strike-shortened 1981, 12 in 1944 (down to hitters this far back for fWAR), 9 in 1943, 12 in 1942….
i bet there’s not a season in history with only 1 6.0+ WAR player. NEIFI is a downer system.
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Again, you can't judge it that way
In any given year, lots of players will beat their mean projections, and lots of players will fall well short of their mean projections. That’s the nature of the beast. But if you build a projection system that forecasts 20 guys a year to beat 6 WAR, you’ll end up horribly overestimating that group of players on the average.
The spread of actual results will always be far greater than the spread of projected results. That’s not a problem with projection systems. If you do 10 sets of 10 coin flips, and ask me to project the results of each set, I will project 5-5 for each set. That projection will end up looking “wrong”, because by chance, some of those sets will end up 7-3 or even 8-2. But does that mean that the projections were actually wrong? Of course not. I’m not saying that player performance is a coin flip, but the mathematical principle is the same.
To illustrate
Some projection systems do look more optimistic than NEIFI. And that’s a big part of why they’re less accurate. Here are the top 10 2011 pitcher forecasts, according to ZiPS (I just took the ZiPS ERA+ forecast and converted it to my ERC scale):
Felix Hernandez 2.65
Ubaldo Jimenez 2.67
Tim Lincecum 2.72
Josh Johnson 2.78
Jon Lester 2.86
C.C. Sabathia 2.95
Cliff Lee 2.96
Roy Halladay 2.96
Justin Verlander 3.06
Clayton Kershaw 3.09
Max Scherzer 3.14
Tommy Hanson 3.14
Brandon Webb 3.16
Zack Greinke 3.16
Matt Cain 3.16
Here’s what NEIFI said for those same pitchers:
Felix Hernandez 2.99
Ubaldo Jimenez 3.14
Tim Lincecum 3.13
Josh Johnson 3.10
Jon Lester 3.11
C.C. Sabathia 3.39
Cliff Lee 3.27
Roy Halladay 3.36
Justin Verlander 3.26
Clayton Kershaw 3.18
Max Scherzer 3.53
Tommy Hanson 3.45
Brandon Webb 4.00
Zack Greinke 3.22
Matt Cain 3.60
Aggregate forecasts for the group (weighted by actual 2011 IP for each pitcher): ZiPS 2.95, NEIFI 3.27
Actual performance of group: 3.29 ERC
Again, the downer isn’t NEIFI, it’s reality. Of course more than one player will exceed 6 WAR, but Tulo is the only player who has a more than 50% chance of doing so, and therefore, the only player who projects at that level.
I really admire your patience in trying to explain this to people who don't get it
PRMLB - The San Francisco Giants are better than you
It's a difficult concept
People naturally expect more of a projection system than it can possibly give. It’s simply not possible to create a remotely accurate set of projections that mirrors the observed spread of performance in a typical season… all we can do is set the over-unders.
The same goes for projecting team win totals, of course. Right now, NEIFI says that the Rangers are the best team in baseball, projecting to win 92 games. Does that mean “NEIFI says no one will win more than 92 games next year”? Of course not. Performance = talent + luck + sampling error. A projection system can only make a guess at the talent component.
Exactly
It’s a truism that some team will do worse than expected, and some teams will do better than expected. A projection system is the “expected” in this equation.
Thought experiment: It has been proven the Rockies have a 50/50 chance of winning 70 games or 90 games. No other number is possible. The projection? 80 games. It doesn’t matter that that specific outcome can’t happen; it’s the only way of averaging the various things that might happen.
PRMLB - The San Francisco Giants are better than you
Interesting that only two of the top ten players are from the NL
Top three from the senior circuit…..
1) Tulo (6.01)
2) Kemp (5.36)
3) Stanton (4.72)
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 13, 2011 10:21 AM MST up reply actions
There were 24 players that topped 6 WAR in 2011
Projecting only one to do so in 2012 makes NEIFI a downer.
Jason Giambi for player-manager in 2012!
How the world will end in 2012: George of the Roses builds a Machine that Pommels everyone with La Violencia during Whiteouts.
(and I usually have a pretty good memory about stuff like this)
Understatement of the week.
by RoxnSox09 on Dec 12, 2011 1:08 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
wow, how did this go unrecced?
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Strange ...
You say awful in 2010 … but that is the one year in his whole career he has been awful … was he awful in 2011? How about 2009? 2008? You get the point. We know he sucks in the field but picking out 2010 … c’mon man!
by Traindogger on Dec 12, 2011 12:24 PM MST up reply actions
I think in 2010 he was awful but still batted above .240 and had 23 hrs and probably 75 RBIS. I haven’t looked in a while but I think im close…if thats his awful I would abeen willing to risk it
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 12, 2011 12:26 PM MST up reply actions
Wait. A-Ram is going to make less annually than Jonathan Papelbon?
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Whoaaaa. That's a very good deal for the Brewers.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 12, 2011 12:03 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
OT: The malaise at work has begun.
We cancelled a regular project manager status meeting this morning because nobody was around, and one coworker just responded to the e-mail saying that she was still in bed. Heh.
Man that stinks Holly.
I hope you find greener pastures sooner than later.
Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
Have you made a decision on relocating, or just weighing options now?
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 12, 2011 12:10 PM MST up reply actions
Waiting to see if Chicago is an option (had to reapply) then will decide.
Probably need to come close to a decision soon, as I don’t know how long we’ll have to accept any offers. Life decisions are hard. Bah.
Dubuque is not a bad place to live
Its right by the prettiest part of the Mississippi valley.
Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
I would be more inclined to consider Dubuque if I weren't single, to be honest.
Not that I’m the bar hopping type or anything, but it would really limit my options.
Well, probably.
But also filtering for religion (which is important to me) probably makes the options even slimmer.
I can see why you would want to stay in the West.
We do have a few LDS churches here in Eastern Iowa. In fact, I know more people of the Bahai faith here in Iowa than I do LDS
Glad religion wasn’t important to me when I got married.
Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
I'd rather A-ram ...
Than Cuddyer at those prices … as ARam could presumably cover 1st when Arenadi is ready and Helton is relegated to the bench.
OT: Its snowing here in New Mexico
68 today, 67 tomorrow is how many days remain until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
I've got to hand it to this community
I think we can take any player that has several good qualities (many that would even fit the Rockies needs well) and rip them apart until it’s ALMOST universally agreed on that it’s a bad idea to sign them.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 12, 2011 12:08 PM MST reply actions
or, the opposite can also be true
/Jose Lopez
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
No, I think I was mostly alone in that department, save a few acolytes that have since left my order.
The Jose Lopez Incident
Is the very archetype of the exception that proves the rule.
(let’s ignore the fact that “the exception that proves the rule” is actually complete nonsense)
PRMLB - The San Francisco Giants are better than you
It's an art!
The off-season sucks.
That is all.
by DAWNMARIE01 on Dec 12, 2011 12:09 PM MST up reply actions
very true, been saying it for months…stats can be used very well and stats can be manipulated, can be a slight problem with a very heavy SABR community
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 12, 2011 12:11 PM MST up reply actions
Cuddyer could have more to do with team attitude than simply replacement value
The Rox — with good reason — are looking to change the clubhouse culture from a laid back bro scene to something more fiery and competitive. By all accounts, Cuddyer helps on that score.
The Tebow thing, as well as Kirk Gibson’s entire career right up to this point, speaks to the value of that sort of thing. Too much and a team can implode, not enough and you have the 2011 Rockies.
I'm glad you bring this side of the coin to the table
There was a huge debate about this type of stuff here in the Fall of 2009 and since then I think the importance of it has been underplayed a little. Even if most disagree, it will at least be good for us to reexamine why.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 12, 2011 12:27 PM MST up reply actions
Anyone who's played a team sport understand the impact of other player's attitudes on the whole
You feed off the negative and you feed off the positive. If the vibe of the room is “we don’t go for rah-rah stuff” then that’s what you get, for better or worse. If the vibe is “everyone better play as if their lives depend on it or someone’s gonna get in your face” then that’s what you get, for better or worse.
Nothing happens in a vacuum, and players aren’t machines calibrated to play to a certain statistical level no matter what. Finding the right balance, the right tension is part of the job of a manager and a GM.
The most talented teams don’t always win championships, but the most finely tuned usually do.
I don't think there's any other way to explain the Broncos.
The off-season sucks.
That is all.
by DAWNMARIE01 on Dec 12, 2011 12:36 PM MST up reply actions
The "other" Ramirez ...
While we’re at it … maybe we should look at Manny … hell … he’ll come cheap and he murders LH pitching (.371 wOBA as recently as 2010). Sure he’s a butcher out there … ah …You’re right … I’m reaching. Still, rather have Manny for 100 games at 2-$3mil than Cuddy at $30 mil.
Objectively
I like this as a high-upside move, but he bothers me so much as a player that overall, I wouldn’t like it.
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 12, 2011 12:24 PM MST up reply actions
Sure I would take manny, I am sure 93 differnt SABR stats with + or – signs in front of them probably tell me now but I wouldn’t be extremely opposed to it
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 12, 2011 12:25 PM MST up reply actions
In what was apparently this offseason's most urgent, burning priority
We already inked a DH.
by Northsider1964 on Dec 12, 2011 12:26 PM MST up reply actions
he if the Phillies think Jim Thome can play 1st base, I believe Manny can play the OF
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 12, 2011 12:28 PM MST up reply actions
he'd be a great platoon partner for smith
not to mention career .410 wOBA in high leverage, .434 RISP…. i hate his guts as a person for playing in boston and LA, but god i love him as a baseball player
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Still don't think Cuddyer leaves the Twins
Its like a true family up there…its kinda weird.
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
OT: This is a hell of an alarm clock.
Maybe JT could use one of these when his matchupzzzzzzzzzzzzzz isn’t going to work right.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKv08vkBmpc&feature=related
68 today, 67 tomorrow is how many days remain until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
OT: Hilarious Tebow writeup
No matter where you stand on this, this blog post is a riot.
http://deadspin.com/5867199/reality-is-now-indistinguishable-from-tim-tebow-fan-fiction
I love the prediciton for the day after the Broncos win the Super Bowl:
On ESPN’s First Take the next morning, Skip Bayless and Merril Hoge will debate whether Tebow is the risen Christ and if he needs to become more of a downfield passing threat for the Broncos to repeat.
OT: Free Chris Paul!
The NBA is setting a dangerous precedent for all sports leagues. Sort of like the similarly poor inverse of what Minaya and MLB did in the waning days of the Expos by emptying the cupboard.
OT: Four weeks of no stress, math, deadlines, math, headaches, or math is ahead of me.
Woot. Survived one. Seven to go.
I thought 2011 sucked pretty bad. I have nothing to add to that.
Um excuse me,
We have some very important math to do in the next month regarding which players to add that will ultimately make the 2012 Rockies a better team. :-)
/Congrats though – That’s a great feeling
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 12, 2011 1:31 PM MST up reply actions
Whaaaaa...go get someone else to calculate that. :P
Thanks though!
I thought 2011 sucked pretty bad. I have nothing to add to that.
by prettyinpurple on Dec 12, 2011 1:36 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Where the hell is our jury?!
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 12, 2011 1:37 PM MST up reply actions
Still out, duh!
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Didn't you have to do math to come up with the "7 to go"?
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 12, 2011 1:48 PM MST up reply actions
No, that's what someone told me...
or was it 9…I don’t remember.
I thought 2011 sucked pretty bad. I have nothing to add to that.
by prettyinpurple on Dec 12, 2011 1:50 PM MST up reply actions
good story on braun by grant brisbee over at SB Nation
arenado: it's Rockie for future
this photo will need to be bookmarked for future occasions
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 12, 2011 2:33 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
I think we actually should cut him out and superimpose him on a field of Wiggyheads.
by Rox Girl on Dec 12, 2011 2:35 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
BANHNED
Purple Row - For all of your Colorado Rockies-related needs
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 12, 2011 3:07 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
What the H?
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 12, 2011 3:11 PM MST up reply actions
BAHNED, James Bahned
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
dammit...
Banhned, James Banhned
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Oh forget it...bah
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
I chuckled
Purple Row - For all of your Colorado Rockies-related needs
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 12, 2011 3:33 PM MST up reply actions
Armadillo races
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
Jim Bowden
Rockies GM Dan O’Dowd told me that they haven’t even made an offer to Michael Cuddyer…they like him and the fit…but $$ could be barrier
This is where understanding the semantics of FA negotiating comes in handy. The Minnesota offer of 3 years/$24M or $25M is on the table, the offer has been made. The Rockies have had contact with Cuddyer, but have not actually tabled an offer, as they’re trying to get him to give a definite figure that he’d sign for before they do. They don’t want a real offer to be used as a negotiating tool with Minnesota and be left out like the chumps or have the price go beyond what they’re willing to do.
I hope they're just chambering all of this for a big deal that fits the team's needs more completely.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 12, 2011 3:07 PM MST up reply actions
I think we had an identical response
You win for conciseness
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 12, 2011 3:14 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
he WOULD be a frontline pitcher
but come on, SETH SMITH!
Purple Row - For all of your Colorado Rockies-related needs
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 12, 2011 3:34 PM MST up reply actions
we wouldn't need the babe to pitch
We have Chatwood
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 12, 2011 3:48 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
there's this player in Brazil named Juan Carlos Torregas Banuelos
Who is supposed to have Gold Glove ability at second base, swat 30 homers, and obp .420. he also is a plastic surgeon that repairs lip clefts in the offseason despite being only 22. No one has ever written about him, because it has long been presumed it would cost $100 billion or more to buy him from the government of Brasilia. However, he’s a world class skiier and has a massive crush on Lindsey Vonn, so rumor has hit he would take his talents to the Mile High City for just $9mil a year.
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 12, 2011 3:13 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
oh sidd finch
I’d sign that made up guy.
He’s a pitcher, part yogi and part recluse. Impressively liberated from our opulent life-style, Sidd’s deciding about yoga — and his future in baseball
Purple Row - For all of your Colorado Rockies-related needs
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 12, 2011 3:35 PM MST up reply actions
I was feeling ya
great reference
Purple Row - For all of your Colorado Rockies-related needs
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 12, 2011 11:27 PM MST up reply actions
Purple row Talent headhunters are freakin' awe-sum
lets get this kid signed!! freakin’ even DOD cant screw this up
The Big Purple Machine will make a believer outta you!
by El Paso Jeff on Dec 12, 2011 3:19 PM MST up reply actions
via mobile
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Doesn't fish write his rockpiles from his phone
PRMLB - Tampa Bay Rays
yeah
I typically have to hide one of them.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 12, 2011 3:33 PM MST up reply actions 4 recs
reccin dis.
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 12, 2011 3:38 PM MST up reply actions
Wyoming is boring
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 12, 2011 4:30 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
I was going to say, however, that this doesn't rule out an implied offer,
The fact that the Rockies are so strongly connected to Cuddyer right now indicates an implication that the team would beat Minnesota’s offer has been made to the OF.
Good, so maybe all the hand-wringing over signing Cuddyer...
was moot. Personally, I’m hoping for a more inspired move.
Seriously?
Getting rid of Wigginton was one thing, but getting rid of Street for nothing was really hard to swallow.
Don’t go on about how much you want Cuddyer then cry poverty when you actually have to beat another team’s offer. Seriously, I’m not one to cry CheapFartz but bitching about money to sign a free agent you claim is a top target is a good way to start. Especially when you trade Street for nothing.
I’m sick and tired of this Rockies free agent garbage.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
RG is right
If the Rox weren’t prepared to go above 3 yrs/ $25 mil, they wouldn’t be talking to Cuddyer.
But if they just lay an offer out there, his agent will shop it. Getting a “what will it take to sign him” commitment from the agent is the correct thing to do at this point.
Calm down, it's posturing.
As everybody’s saying here, even me who likes the idea of signing Cuddyer, he’s not that inspiring a player to go and overpay for, no matter how much the team’s fond of him. This was probably in response to a media Tweet earlier that suggested 3/$30 million was what it would take. This is the Rockies way of saying “no dice from us” on that figure. I really don’t think any other team is going to jump in and offer it to him, either.
It's the language of it that bothers the hell out of me
There are so many other ways of saying Cuddyer isn’t worth 3/30.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
Prado + Kuroda + Volquez
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
aaaaaand we have none of the sort.
"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"
Luftfeuchtigkeitsregler über alles.
by The Lodo Magic Man on Dec 12, 2011 3:52 PM MST up reply actions
Well, true.
Just meant that no moves have been made with any of them, so it’s not like the Rockies (or any other team) have yet missed out.
as rg said, much of the FA market is posturing
I’ll reserve judgement until no FA are signed by April 1
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 12, 2011 3:37 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
His agent is holding out for the Rockies to sign up for the warranty plan
downside: gonna cost an extra 3.6M per year.
Upside: Cuddyer breaks, they’ll send us Jason Kubel.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 12, 2011 3:38 PM MST up reply actions
That's another indication that Saunders will be non-tendered.
or traded for a Chaz Roe type tonight. Saito’s a better fit, though.
good pickup, depending on the price
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Hello Saito, remember me?

"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"
Luftfeuchtigkeitsregler über alles.
by The Lodo Magic Man on Dec 12, 2011 3:50 PM MST up reply actions 3 recs
Isn't the non-tender deadline tonight?
-Spilly and uhh…..who else?
"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"
Luftfeuchtigkeitsregler über alles.
by The Lodo Magic Man on Dec 12, 2011 3:53 PM MST reply actions
:-(
if you could have just been at least competent at as RH bench bat, Spilly.
"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"
Luftfeuchtigkeitsregler über alles.
by The Lodo Magic Man on Dec 12, 2011 3:55 PM MST up reply actions
or learned to play 2B & 3B or something...
"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"
Luftfeuchtigkeitsregler über alles.
by The Lodo Magic Man on Dec 12, 2011 3:56 PM MST up reply actions
Man...
I feel like Purple Row is turning into this.
Jason Giambi for player-manager in 2012!
How the world will end in 2012: George of the Roses builds a Machine that Pommels everyone with La Violencia during Whiteouts.
Does this mean we have to start writing backwards?
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
I evig pu
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
or would it be
pu evig I
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
The latter
is what I’m going for, but who am I kidding? I can’t even spell forward :-)
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 12, 2011 4:13 PM MST up reply actions
Looks right to me :)
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Forward that is
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Aaron Rowand signed with the Marlins.
Will be glad to see his supremely annoying batting stance far less in the future.
speaking of the Marlins
@Ken_Rosenthal: Buerhle w/ Marlins: $6M in 12, 11M, 18M, 19M in 15. 4M signing bonus, deferred w/o interest
We can no longer spell backloaded contract D-O-D-G-E-R-S
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
it's pretty obvious, right?
He was just waiting for the new stadium to maximize his profit on the $158.5 million he used to purchase the team.
hello 2013 off season fire sale!
"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"
Luftfeuchtigkeitsregler über alles.
by The Lodo Magic Man on Dec 12, 2011 4:23 PM MST up reply actions
OT: Sources say that Jim McElwain (Alabama OC) has been hired as the next coach for CSU
If true, as a CSU alum, I’m very excited about this hire!
GO ROCKIES!
I'm a believeR!
As a KU fan, we hired Chuck Weis.
cries in corner
"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"
Luftfeuchtigkeitsregler über alles.
by The Lodo Magic Man on Dec 12, 2011 4:27 PM MST up reply actions
Eh, as a big CU fan but CSU student
it’s the best hire that CSU could have made but isn’t a game changer. CU chose against him and reportedly was below Bill MC in order of who they wanted. Reports were that he just was Dan Hawkins 2.0. But who knows, maybe he is what Hawkins should have been.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson
I thought CSU just fired Dan Hawkins 2.0?
McElwain will be an upgrade, but unless some of the more fantastical stories about new facilities are true, he’s got a massive uphill climb, and will probably leave for greener pastures (no pun intended) if he does manage to have success there…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 12, 2011 4:59 PM MST up reply actions
If he leaves for greener pastures, that means he has CSU going better than 3-9
Which is a good thing.
GO ROCKIES!
I'm a believeR!
In the opinion of some... :-)
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 13, 2011 12:10 AM MST up reply actions
Of course
If this on-campus stadium rumor is true, I’ll jump for joy.
No matter what happens, at least our coaching search didn’t involve embarrassment.
See: UCLA, ASU, aTm, etc.
GO ROCKIES!
I'm a believeR!
its funny, researching him, Hawk was the comp that immediately came to mind for me too
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 12, 2011 5:45 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
What makes you think this?
I was at work and haven’t had much time to research yet.
GO ROCKIES!
I'm a believeR!
And
we’re covering it at SB Nation Denver.
And that’s my appearance at PR for the month.
"No Mission Too Difficult, No Sacrifice Too Great—Duty First" - 1st Infantry Division Motto
SB Nation Denver - The regional hub for Denver sports!
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
I'll never understand Amart's Seth Smith love.
Unfortunately, I was too busy today to comment on it.
I just want me a real #5 hitter some day. Some day.
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com
Leading the Astros into the Future. Go, Go Astros!
Dodgers sign Tony Gwynn Jr.
And yes, it’s to a two year contract. Anybody want to bet that it’s split 50/50 between 2012 and 2013? Anybody?
its actually close
$850k in ’12, $1.15k in ’13
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 12, 2011 5:46 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
That looks EXTREMELY front-loaded..
Haha =P
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 12, 2011 6:55 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
oops
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 12, 2011 7:01 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Broke-ass Mets:
NY Times just revealed that the Wilpons had to take out another $40 million loan to make payroll, this time from Bank of America. And MLB is still not forcing them to sell the Mets.

"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"
Luftfeuchtigkeitsregler über alles.
by The Lodo Magic Man on Dec 12, 2011 6:28 PM MST reply actions
Here's a Shovel Mr. Wilpon
Feel free to continue digging that hole.
Its ridiculous that the Wilpons are allowed to keep that team. Being friends with the Commish sure has its perks.
And since it was from B of A
they probably added a $5.00 service fee
by maris61 on Dec 12, 2011 7:04 PM MST up reply actions 4 recs
Heh...flec'd
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Damn you Luke Scott
Throws right, bats left.
Non-tendered and for a second I thought he might be able be a platoon OF/back up 1B for us and save us from having to over-extend on, say, Michael Cuddyer. But, no, another lefty.
He had shoulder surgery so maybe what side of the plate is irrelevant and we wouldn’t want him anyways. If Baltimore is passing on him when he was scheduled to make $6 million and they need, at the least, a DH he probably is damaged goods.
Which makes me wonder, what was my point?
Wouldn't want, even if healthy
even without the political wackiness
He’s Seth Smith Lite. And about as streaky as a hitter gets — hot & cold, Wiggy-like.
So... not Babe Ruth, but in addition to Saunders, the D-backs are also non-tendering Micah Owings.
He bats right.
Can he play OF
If so, he could be a cheap RH platooner with Smith after we strike out on Cuddyer and Willingham
He'd probably need some time in AAA to focus on hitting first,
but I really like the idea of having a dual position player/pitcher like that for the Rockies, if ever a real one comes about.
Jennings was as close as you'll see
I the guy’s a legit pitcher, I just don’t see a team messing around with the dual role. And if he can’t cut it on the mound, he’ll probably go the Rick Ankiel route. Specialization rules.
Jennings, however, had some pop. Hit a ton while at Baylor.
by Northsider1964 on Dec 12, 2011 7:22 PM MST up reply actions
Owings is a better hitter than pitcher
but never made the full switch, unlike his teammate at Tulane, Brian Bogusevic, who did give up pitching to hit & made a decent showing with the Astros last year.
Bogusevic was pretty fun to watch last year
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
I wish to retract the above statement re: Owings
I should know to trust stats more than my memory.
Owings in 2011 was 8-0 w/ a 3.57 ERA, 1.25 WHIP, .240 avg against — a much better year than I thought.
His hitting, OTOH, has declined each year since he got to the bigs (not surprisingly, as his good-hitting college days fade into the past)..
If Owings was non-tendered, he might be worth a look, but perhaps his arb status makes him potentially expensive.
Someone will pick him up for sure then
Those 2011 stats are way better than what a lot of teams had on their roster at the end of 2011 — including, unfortunately, one purple-clad team I can think of.
He's one of the few pitchers that the "learned a new pitch" thing actually worked for.
He added a cutter last season, and used it almost exclusively.
Terrible ground out ratio, though
so don’t know if he’s a fit at Coors.
But with those stats in AZ, a team with a forgiving park (SD, NYM, OAK) would be well advised to take a flyer on him.
We need to get off the groundball pitcher craze
I don’t think it works as well as we think it does in Coors, because sinkerball pitchers tend to walk a lot of guys too (their effective strike zone is very small). I think we need to focus on guys who change speeds well and have great command. No More Walks!
by BostonTransplant on Dec 12, 2011 8:44 PM MST up reply actions
Yeah , exhibit "A", "B" or "C"
on why the D’backs are not likely to have a season like 2011 again in 2012. I mean, EVERYTHING went right last year, with the single exception of the injury to Stephen Drew.
by BostonTransplant on Dec 12, 2011 8:42 PM MST up reply actions
Brooks Kieshnick (sp.?)
ex-Cub tried the dual hitter/pitcher role, without much success.
Same background: stud hitter and pitcher in college.
Carlos Zambrano anyone?
he was with the Rockies, and started his dual role the next year in Milwaukee, iirc
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 12, 2011 8:24 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
it’s good for R L R issues where you can bring in Owings, then move him to the OF, bring in a lefty, and then put Owings back on the mound.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
PRMLB: The Brew Crew
Shouldn't we be afraid
of putting a tool like that into Tracy’s hands?
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 12, 2011 10:04 PM MST up reply actions
probably. maybe though the more options we give him, the more he can screw up and expose his weaknesses…
#staypositive
#fireTracy
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
PRMLB: The Brew Crew
Pitcher/hitters like Owings are my absolute favourite players in baseball. I'd kill to sign him.
PRMLB - The San Francisco Giants are better than you
Andruw Jones
Have we forgotten about him? This is a guy I can get behind as a platoon partner with Smith. He crushed LH pitching last year .286/.384/.540 and I believe would be above average in a corner OF spot.
the Yankees are gonna resign him
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 12, 2011 11:28 PM MST up reply actions
Casey McGehee traded to the Pirates for Jose Veras.
"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"
Luftfeuchtigkeitsregler über alles.
by The Lodo Magic Man on Dec 12, 2011 6:51 PM MST reply actions
Whoa. That's kind of surprising
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
that he'd go to Pitt or that he'd be traded?
Once Aramis signed, McGehee was good as gone. For that price, its worth it for Pitt, even with Alvarez there. Could motivate Pedro. Could also play one of em at first
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 12, 2011 7:05 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Well, since I was unaware that Aramis signed
it was a surprise that he was traded…lol. So now that I realize Aramis was signed it is much less surprising…
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
I thought they might keep him around
at least until Braun comes back (if he ends up suspended). Assuming Prince is gone, I thought they might want McGehee for 1B…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 12, 2011 7:46 PM MST up reply actions
wow. Another lost chance
68 today, 67 tomorrow is how many days remain until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
Yeah, I'm not feeling it with McGehee.
I might be wrong, but that was a pretty steep cliff he dropped off of.
Rockies nontender Ryan Spilborghs and Cole Garner
Reach contract agreement with Kevin Slowey
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 12, 2011 7:09 PM MST via mobile reply actions
Sad :(
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
I didnt either.
So now, we can’t get squat for them?
68 today, 67 tomorrow is how many days remain until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
With Spilborghs, we could have gotten squat at some point.
With Garner, it was never really an option. He was too old to seem valuable to other teams in trade. He might have been a throw in at the tail end of a big move ala McBride, but I wouldn’t have counted on it.
Two of the nicest guys in the org.
It seems that O’Dowd is really cutting a lot of strings this year.
a team composed of 25 nice guys finishes in 4th place.
"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"
Luftfeuchtigkeitsregler über alles.
by The Lodo Magic Man on Dec 12, 2011 7:19 PM MST up reply actions
I feel worse for Garner, actually
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 12, 2011 7:30 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Like someone alluded to this morning
I would find this mystifying. If the Rockies have decided he’s not worth the bottom end of the arbitration parameters, why should saving a couple hundred thousand dollars give them a change of heart? Move on.
by Northsider1964 on Dec 12, 2011 7:47 PM MST up reply actions
I'd take him on a minor league deal
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Obviously they don't like him very much
Why spend the money on absolutely nothing?
by BostonTransplant on Dec 12, 2011 8:45 PM MST up reply actions
Spilborghs had his moments here
And he certainly made his presence during his time here felt. Hopefully wherever he lands he can have a couple more of those moments.
Garner wasn’t even arbitration eligible. They obviously figured he has no role with us anymore.
NOT GARNER
NOOOOOOO
Purple Row - For all of your Colorado Rockies-related needs
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 12, 2011 11:29 PM MST up reply actions
Lindsay Guentzel
Sounds like #Twins are standing firm on $26mil / 3years for Cuddyer. If it goes beyond, Twins are also liking picks + Willy or other OFer.
I don’t know what the Rockies are at, but it seems we’re at an end game here.
we'd have to offer 3/28 or 3/30 to sign him at this point, don't we...
That’s a fairly steep price
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
I agree. 3/$30M is the high end of where I saw him signing for, and if that's what it took, I didn't want the team to be the Rockies.
I could live uncomfortably with 3/$28M, but it’s pushing it.
My main issue will be with the kind of move we could expect for pitching at that point
I’m not sure how well a Volquez type could fit.
money wise?
That would be tough, especially with O’Dowd discussing a Lidge or Hawkins signing as well.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Hawkins has been signed
Unless my memory is completely gone. It was only last week.
by BostonTransplant on Dec 12, 2011 8:46 PM MST up reply actions
oh wow. I must have missed that one
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Not your fault
I think it came right after the Pujols/Wilson signings so it was kind of pushed to the side
Or was it right before?
Yeah, can’t remember either.
We're talking about 4 different acquisitions
and I don’t see the money available for all of them. Maybe 2 of 4
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Scutaro's only one year
We can exceed the budget on a one-time basis, I’m sure.
by BostonTransplant on Dec 12, 2011 8:46 PM MST up reply actions
Can Scutaro play 3rd?
"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"
Luftfeuchtigkeitsregler über alles.
by The Lodo Magic Man on Dec 12, 2011 7:40 PM MST up reply actions
Jackson's not coming to CO willingly.
But don’t worry, he’ll be available for trade during the middle of the summer if we wait.
It's steep
But damn it, I just want some momentum. Lets get things going. And I think this team really needs some stability in the lineup. That is something we seem to be getting close to.
no, he was reclassified under the new CBA
the Twins would get a 1st rounder before ours, but we don’t have to surrender anything
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Well, he is
but the new CBA revalued most of the Type A players so that a team wouldn’t have to surrender a first rounder to sign them. Cuddyer, and most of the relievers, were given that secondary classification for this offseason.
Starting next year, that won’t even exist.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
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What's the diff, really ...
3/26 is 8.7 m a year. 3/28 is 9.3 m a year. That’s going to be the difference between getting him and not? We have the cash. I can see making the argument that we ought to spend the money elsewhere (although except for E. Jackson, I can’t for the life of me imagine on whom, unless we’re going after Youk), but not beating the Twins offer for just puritanical, “he’s worth this but not that” reasons is not gonna fly.
by BostonTransplant on Dec 12, 2011 8:39 PM MST up reply actions
Agreed
But I’m getting the sense that DOD doesn’t even want to go to 3/26 for him and would rather keep it at 2 years…might just be me though.
Not too concerned about that, however. AMart’s logic in this RP makes a lot of sense, the more I consider it. I’d prefer that we turn our attentions to Scutaro/Prado as well.
If that's what DoD has in mind
Then he’s dumber than I thought. Seriously, why even let the rumors go this far if you know you won’t beat the Twins offer and therefore you have zero chance of getting him (and his new family) to leave their home? Can’t believe that.
I think the issue with Scutaro/Prado is that you can’t really do it without acquiring another outfielder, because both require (likely) Smith in trade. I like Blackmon as much as the next guy, but I’m not interested in going into the season with him as my starter, even if we get a Gomes to platoon with him.
by BostonTransplant on Dec 12, 2011 8:57 PM MST up reply actions
I'm leaning towards sticking with Smith for 2012 and looking for a Gomes-type platoon partner
I’d prefer to give up a prospects-only package for Scutaro or Prado.
I’m not sure how much it would require to acquire Scutaro, but the Sox seem pretty keen to shed some payroll and I presume that it would be a lot less than what Wren’s asking for Prado. Would, say, Wheeler + Edwar Cabrera do it?
That's a lot for one year of Scutaro
I would think Cabrera alone would do it, but that’s a $6m hit on our budget. Add a platoon partner for Smith and we’re certainly up to what Cuddyer would make. So the question becomes:
Is the Cuddyer scenario (MC in the outfield, plus whatever (2B or P) we can get for Smith plus keeping a pretty good P prospect) better or worse than the Smith scenario (Smith and Gomes in the outfield, plus Scutaro at 2B and no P). Guess it depends if you think Cuddyer’s any good, but I’d go with door #1 on that one.
by BostonTransplant on Dec 12, 2011 9:53 PM MST up reply actions
My mistake.
I thought Scutaro had two years remaining on his contract for some reason. Not sure if Cabrera alone gets it done though.
the bird on the uniform is a nice touch

"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"
Luftfeuchtigkeitsregler über alles.
by The Lodo Magic Man on Dec 12, 2011 7:38 PM MST reply actions 2 recs
Saunders non-tendered
Diamondbacks non-tendered LHP Joe Saunders.
The Diamondbacks were discussing a multi-year contract with Saunders as recently as last week, but he became expendable following the acquisition of Trevor Cahill. The 30-year-old figured to make $8-9 million in his final year of arbitration, so while he didn’t draw much trade interest, he will have plenty of suitors as a free agent. The southpaw posted a 3.69 ERA and 1.31 WHIP across 33 starts this past year for Arizona, though he finished with a career-low strikeout rate.
Source: Ken Rosenthal on Twitter
Dan, don't you do it.
"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"
Luftfeuchtigkeitsregler über alles.
by The Lodo Magic Man on Dec 12, 2011 7:44 PM MST up reply actions
Do you realize how good a 3.69 ERA in that stadium is?
We’ll never get him because of the Coors factor, but come on. Beggars can’t be choosers.
by BostonTransplant on Dec 12, 2011 8:33 PM MST up reply actions
I would sign him on a one year deal...
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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He's already drawing interest from Boston and Baltimore.
The Rockies really have to trade for their rotation.
Yeah, we're really operating on a narrow scope with starting pitching this year
too many big fish in the same pond
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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Dodgers non-tendered Kuo.
There would be an interesting add, he’d be about as high on my bullpen list as Lidge.
If healthy, he's a beast
But hasn’t he had Tommy John about four times already? He’s probably running low on replacement tendons.
by Northsider1964 on Dec 12, 2011 8:28 PM MST up reply actions
The Dodgers couldn't figure out a way
to give him 1/3 of a new tendon in 2012 and defer the remaining 2/3 to 2013….
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 12, 2011 8:41 PM MST up reply actions 7 recs
Good thing I wasn't drinking when I read this comment.
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omigod
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Yea, comment of the year.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 12, 2011 9:07 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
junction rox wins PR for the offseason
arenado: it's Rockie for future
he had been in the Dodger organization since 1999
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
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"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 12, 2011 8:23 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
I remember he said he'd lean towards retirement if the Dodgers' weren't interested in bringing him back
I’d love to see a Taiwanese guy with the Rockies again, but I think Kuo’s done, esp. with the anxiety disorder issues.
Bit different.
Greinke was much younger and still very, very highly regarded as a prospect when he was going through his darkest moments, so to speak. Besides, his control hasn’t totally abandoned him as it has with Kuo.
I don't
Kuo has been completely useless for quite some time now. Don’t think 2009-era Kuo. Think huge-longshot-for-a-long-recovery type guy.
Lidge would be fine with me as another late inning option.
by BostonTransplant on Dec 12, 2011 8:35 PM MST up reply actions
Renck says Slowey's new contract is "non-guaranteed"
Does that mean if he doesn’t go north with us out of ST, he becomes a free agent? That’s actually somewhat interesting, if true. That could mean he really is insurance in case we don’t find a more established SP via trade, and nothing more. It also means that theoretically we could save the $3m for hitters if we want to go that way.
by BostonTransplant on Dec 12, 2011 8:54 PM MST reply actions
That would be awesome
Even more important than opening up money, ‘cause by the point they determine he is not worth a roster spot (hypothetically…I am rooting for him) there wont really be anyone left on the FA market, is the freedom it would give us in figuring out our rotation. This way we won’t feel pressed into starting him because he’s making more than player x.
It's also an out for him,
He really didn’t like the situation last year in Minnesota when the team pushed him to the bullpen. If the Rockies don’t want him, it makes him a free agent for the first time, and with his stats, chances are some team will pick him up. This is one of the few cases where it works for both player and a team.
Waiting to see of Keppinger gets tendered a contract or not..
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 12, 2011 9:13 PM MST via mobile reply actions
Well this makes it more likely he gets non tendered right?
mlbtrben Ben Nicholson-Smith
Giants, Mike Fontenot agree to one-year deal for 2012, avoiding arbitration I have learned.
President of Baseball Operations for the PRMLB Atlanta Braves
I can certainly live with Keppinger at 2B for 2012.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Way better than Herrera/Nelson
Probably better than Lemahieu too
President of Baseball Operations for the PRMLB Atlanta Braves
You think Lemahieu hits better than .280?
President of Baseball Operations for the PRMLB Atlanta Braves
I'm going to hedge on that.
I think he could. I think the relative direction of the two players says LeMahieu will be better than Keppinger in the next 12 months. I just don’t know when that line will get crossed. It could come before the season starts.
Decent, above average contact skills and he still actually has some power projection.
He can play in the middle infield, and a lot of his defensive woes are as much about inexperience as they are anything else. Of course, by using the word projection and talking about his inexperience, I acknowledge that he’s still a project, but he’s got a brighter future than a lot of people realize. He could be a Jeff Baker type fairly quickly, and at his peak, he could be more. I imagine that since he was redundant to Baker, the Cubs felt okay letting him go.
I just don't see him as any better than the other knuckleheads we have already
he is really going to need to add some power or become an empty average, below average defender.
It's really fairly likely that he does.
30% of his hits in the minors last season went for extra bases. That wouldn’t really cut it at a corner infield position for very long, but he actually had a higher percentage in that department than Jordan Pacheco, without the benefit of hitting in Colorado Springs. Like I said, the defensive issues you see written about LeMahieu should also see some refinement and improvement with playing time. While there isn’t a ton of upside with him, there’s more than a lot of people are acknowledging.
well, that sure is a tweet
@gerritcole:
Considering quitting baseball to smoke weed. Fuck it
yeah, I wouldn’t want to play for the Pirates either
/Gerrit was their first overall draft pick in 2011.
"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"
Luftfeuchtigkeitsregler über alles.
by The Lodo Magic Man on Dec 12, 2011 9:31 PM MST reply actions
Hacked
Bet you 10,000$
President of Baseball Operations for the PRMLB Atlanta Braves
There's also a @gerrit_cole
Neither are confirmed accounts, so…
Somebody needs to slop more hogs,,,
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 12, 2011 9:40 PM MST up reply actions
oh wait, you mean that wasn't a euphemism for smoking a joint?
Wow, that whole Ian Stewart meme looks a lot different now.
its a fake
Cole doesn’t have a Twitter accoujt. Source: Cole
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 12, 2011 11:59 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Great point...
Moving Seth Smith at this point for what they (or is it just we…?) are talking about kind of wreaks of making a change just to make a change.
As big of a fan of Seth Smith as I am (I get way too much enjoyment from screaming “Let’s go Seth Smith!” way louder than I need to…) I would totally be in favor of making a trade or signing a legitimate, every day corner OF and moving Smith back to a 4th outfielder/PH extraordinaire.
But trading him for a different OF with similar limitations for 2-3X’s the salary seems like an expensive lateral move at best.
by WhiskeyDrinkingMan on Dec 12, 2011 10:16 PM MST reply actions
Well
the idea of trading Smith is to get more value out of a return than using Smith as a backup. And no, we are not trading Smith for another OF. Not sure where you got that from.
Platoon player and backup aren't the same things
Charlie Blackmon is a backup. He’s defensively sound and a questionable bat – at this point in his career. Seth Smith beats the hell out of RHP and would need to be platooned against LHP – that’s not a backup, that’s a most-of-the-time starter.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 12, 2011 11:33 PM MST up reply actions
Anybody interest in getting Ryan Theriot....
He’s been a thorn in the Rockies’ side over the years, hitting .318 against us. Cards are non-tendering him.
I'd rather have him than Keppinger, but it's very close and I'm not convinced I've picked the right one.
I’d of course rather have Prado or Scutaro than either of those two, and think we should continue to dig in the next higher tier trade market for now before falling back to that level.
If we don't end up with an everyday 2nd baseman....
AT LEAST as good as Theriot or Keppinger, then we will all know that something is seriously wrong with our FO. I would hope one of them is a “fallback” position, but if we wait and fail to trade for a better one, and Theriot and Keppinger sign elsewhere in the meantime, it would be the height of ineptitude on our part.
I agree here.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 12, 2011 11:40 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Theriot is garbage
.227 ABR with subpar defense = replacement level.
Keppinger comes out considerably better (.247 ABR, 1.13 WAR)… I wouldn’t mind going after him, but of course he’s a lower-upside solution than we’d like.
Gawd, I've read this article 5 times today
Its very good. It has me changing my offseason desires.
Pitching, Keppinger/Coghlan/Bonifacio, RH platoon!!
^5 A-Mart
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 12, 2011 11:39 PM MST via mobile reply actions
RH OF platoon**
I’d also throw Scutaro into that 2B mix. Prado isn’t coming here.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 12, 2011 11:41 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
OTish:
I like your new avatar- it’s awesome of course.
I keep getting it mixed up with other’s though- when’d you change it?
I thought 2011 sucked pretty bad. I have nothing to add to that.
by prettyinpurple on Dec 12, 2011 11:43 PM MST up reply actions
Yea I thought the pic of me was a little too FB and a little less Rockies
So I took my desktop background and made it my profile pic. Easy decision
I changed it about a week or so ago.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 12, 2011 11:50 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Yuck. Ambiguous writing there
The OLD profile picture of the picture of myself was a little too much Facebook-esque, so I changed it to the famous HeltonPose®, which is my PC background.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 12, 2011 11:52 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
I get ya.
Cool.
I thought 2011 sucked pretty bad. I have nothing to add to that.
by prettyinpurple on Dec 12, 2011 11:55 PM MST up reply actions
TrippingOlney tweets
TrippingOlney Not Buster Olney
BRANDON BELT MUST BE EXCITED FOR ANOTHER HALF SEASON OF MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL.
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