Wednesday Rockpile: The Rockies Have Money -- How Should They Spend It?
by Jeff Aberle on Dec 14, 2011 7:40 AM MST
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PrintI was going to write about how I thought signing Michael Cuddyer/Josh Willingham (while jettisoning Seth Smith) was a bad idea, but then Andrew 1 did it masterfully on Monday. Then I was going to write about how much money the Rockies had freed up, but then Andrew 2 did it yesterday (with a colored table, no less -- I can't compete with that!). So what you're getting today is an unholy amalgamation of those two articles.
We've got all this money freed up...now who do we spend it on?
Here's my quick and dirty breakdown of the payroll situation as it stands right now:
- Including Kevin Slowey's $2.75 million deal, Colorado has $52 million committed to 10 or 11 roster slots for 2012 (depending on Jorge De La Rosa's injury status, so we'll assume 10 for Opening Day)
- Colorado will have roughly $5 million in arbitration commitments for Dex and Smith...and then, if you add minimum salaries for the rest of the 13 roster slots, that's a cost floor of about $63.5 million
- Given that I see Colorado's 2012 payroll in the $80-85 million range, they have between $17-22 million to spend as upgrades on those other 13 roster slots
- 4 bullpen pitchers -- Brothers and Reynolds will be 2 of these, and they're minimum salary guys
- 3 starting pitchers -- Chacin will be there for sure, maybe Nicasio if he's fully back
- 2 starting infielders (2B, 3B) -- There's a whole gaggle of minimum salary players competing right now
- 2 backup outfielders -- preferably one of which who is a lefty-killing platoon guy, but these slots might be filled by Blackmon and Colvin
- 1 backup infielder -- right now this is looking like the 2nd best of the 2nd/3rd competitors that can also play SS in a pinch
- 1 backup catcher -- Rosario is the most attractive candidate here
I've made it pretty clear in the past few months that I believe that the Rockies' everyday lineup is pretty darn solid. On any given day, Colorado can/will trot out 6 players (Tulo, Cargo, Dex, Helton/Giambi, Smith, and Hernandez -- replacing Iannetta) who produced at an above average level offensively (over 100 wRC+ -- which is a park-adjusted stat -- in 2011). That's as many above average hitters as any 2011 NL playoff team, in case you were wondering.
The main thing dragging Colorado down was putrid performance from 2B/3B and from the reserves. This fact is why I opined in October that Colorado really only needed to shore up 2B/3B/SP and their terrible bench. The trouble is, the 2B/3B market was looking pretty fallow, so much so that I advocated keeping Ian Stewart as the starter in 2012. Obviously that particular scenario isn't going to happen now, but the point is that 2nd, 3rd, and platoon RH OF are where Colorado should be focusing its attention, providing they aren't able to get Beltran in conjunction with a productive Smith trade. After all, a cheaper righty platoon partner for Smith like Andruw Jones or Jonny Gomes would likely be equivalent to a full Michael Cuddyer at half the price.
If Colorado will commit to playing their "A" lineup consistently (and against RHP, they have no reason not to) and if health/age don't cause one of the core 6 to go down, Colorado could really be a surprise offensively in 2012 without even adding a piece. I'm not saying that Colorado is an offensive juggernaut as currently constructed -- I'm just illustrating that they aren't as far away from being a playoff-caliber offense as you think. The NL West is eminently winnable, and I think that filling in the gaps in the bench, infield, and rotation will keep the Rockies solidly in contender status.
Basically, I'm arguing that it is easier and more cost effective to go from terrible to passable in the rotation/bench than from average to good as a starting offense (particularly outfield). I think that with Kevin Slowey, Tyler Colvin, and DJ LeMahieu on board, the process of upgrading the rotation/bench from terrible to passable is well underway.
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5 Teams in on Beltran?
Scott Miller of CBSSports.com reports that the Blue Jays, Rockies and Cardinals are among at least five teams expressing interest in free agent Carlos Beltran.
Chances don’t look so good with so many teams. I’m still against Cuddyer – just can’t believe a near $10mil price tag over three years.
I first mentioned Andruw Jones as a lefty-masher a couple of days ago … I think he could provide plus defense in a corner and between Smith and Jones that’s a pretty good corner of’er. Give me that and pitching and a seviceable infielder and I’m good.
Jones is someone I've been advocating getting since October -- too bad that he'll probably go back to the Yankees
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 14, 2011 10:00 AM MST up reply actions
I am not too worried about TOR AA has said no major aquisitions this year
STL worries me as he played so much against them in HOU and is very familiar with the culture and with the return of Wainwright and the Braun suspension they have to be favorites in the central. I could certainly see the Braves, Phillies, and Nationals making a bid. Also Seattle, Texas, Cinci, and Detroit have money to spend the Yankees are always a threat,
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I am FOR Cuddyer
Park adjusted he could be a solid player for the Rockies. With his bat and defensive flexibility (1B, 3B, LF, RF) he could be the right handed bat this lineup needs. Target field is a tough place to hit. Park adjusted, i can easily see Cuddyer hitting close to 30 HRs and hovering around .300. If he could hit 22 HRs playing half his games in Mineeapolis they sky is the limit hitting at Coors.
The STH Conference Call is tonight.
I can’t make it. I hope someone can blog the details.
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I plan on being on the call
but I may be a few minutes late. I don’t think I can do as good a job you did last go round but I’ll do my best.
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by Cargo'es Yard on Dec 14, 2011 9:28 AM MST up reply actions
Renck Watch:
If Renck did have an “early, early” flight, it wasn’t to a faraway place. He’s already tweeting.
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Wi-fi on the plane?
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by waterboy31321 on Dec 14, 2011 8:04 AM MST up reply actions
Possibly.
But he’s doing quite a bit of posting and tweeting. Also, his concept of “early, early” might be 9AM.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 14, 2011 8:05 AM MST up reply actions
Yesterday he posted that he had an “early, early flight” for a “mystery assignment.” That’s all.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 14, 2011 8:15 AM MST up reply actions
Maybe he's going to Japan to cover the Yu posting/negotiations.
;-)
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
DarrenRovell, very interesting
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by waterboy31321 on Dec 14, 2011 8:16 AM MST up reply actions
My 2 cents
Once again I will say this club is going nowwhere without a veteran on the mound who can eat up innings. Right now its a “MASH UNIT”. I see Chacin breaking down as he did towards the last of last years season. Who on the this staff has pitched over 100 innings in the big leagues? You mentioned Andruw Jones, the Rockies walked away from him once when Holliday was on the marke. LA. And the rumor had Holliday going to LA for Kemp, Kershaw and Jones but the Rocks didn’t want to take on Jone’s salary. This club needs a closer, 3b, 2b, adn a right hitting power bat. I say move Tulo to 3rd and get guy like Scooturo(msp) to play ss. Give Bettis a month in Tulsa then make him your closer. Trade some prospects and Smith for a rh bat and 2b. But you still need pitching or just go with what you have and growing pains.
lots of crazy in that post
Betancourt will be fine at closer, particularly if he can avoid that one terrible month he always seems to have. Tulo is not going to third any time soon, and he shouldn’t. Bettis to close? Rex Brothers is closer to closing that Bettis is.
If we got Scutaro
it’d be him playing third (or second), not Tulo. Tulo’s move to third is still many years away, dude.
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
More likely than Tulo-to-third, Arenado-to-first?
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
I think so,
1B will be an easier spot to fill than RF if there’s a better SS alternative to Tulowitzki, and Arenado’s defense has improved enough to make him seem like he should be able to stick at third through most of his prime.
of course, this is still a very far off (2016 or beyond) conjecture
and I’m feeling bad for making it seem like Arenado’s such a sure thing. I really hope he is this good. He can be.
I think it will depend on what Arenado's long term plans are (assuming he sticks as a solid Major Leaguer)
If he’s only going to be here for six seasons and then wants to hit free agency, Tulo could still move to 3B after that. It’s also possible that Arenado stays Tulo remains at short for almost his entire career. The reason I believe this is that the strongest part of Tulo’s defense is his arm which won’t drop off much. He could lose a lot of range and still be average on that side of the ball because his arm can make up for it.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 14, 2011 8:11 AM MST up reply actions
Holliday for Kemp and Kershaw and Jones? ohhhhhhhhh man that woulda been sweet oh well
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 14, 2011 8:03 AM MST up reply actions
no offense to CarGo and Street, but MVPS and CyYoungs are awesomer
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 14, 2011 8:06 AM MST up reply actions
Well when you think about it
It would be awesome, but it also means that Holliday would have become an 18-times a year Rockie killer
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 14, 2011 9:00 AM MST up reply actions
He wouldn't, I just don't really see any way that's possible.
Given the trade offers we knew about Holliday, this doesn’t match up remotely in value, even at the time.
Oh I agree
I’m pretty sure that deal was never remotely in consideration, let alone on the table. I even used to float that (without Kersh) to Dodger fans back in that timeframe and it would have been a mixed results deal to LA fans, who really loved Kemp then (before hating him in 2010 and loving him again now)…but adding Kersh? That would have been the Herschel Walker trade DOD always wanted to make…
We'll probably get out bid on Beltran
That’s ok. Hopefully the same happens with Cuddyer. If we can’t land Beltran, I’m on the “Platoon Smith with a lefty killer” boat. Downside is that we lose a trade piece in Smith. Upside is that we have $$$$ to make moves mid-season or next off season.
Why don't we just not sign anyone AND trade Smith?
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 14, 2011 7:59 AM MST up reply actions
Why focus on Prado still, Jeff?
Scutaro’s more available and will be about as beneficial, possibly more.
Second. I really think this plan aims for second or third place in the division rather than first. I’m not saying that Cuddyer’s the better solution (apparently Rockies scouts think so, at some point we will have to trust them,) but sticking with Smith is a wait and hope it gets better approach when it probably won’t.
Right.
This is why, if we’re not going to make a move, I’d rather just trade Smith anyway. The “wait-and-hope” would drive me crazy. I’d rather let our army of OF prospects figure something out.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 14, 2011 8:04 AM MST up reply actions
Scutaro actually isn't that good, so there's that.
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9.8 WAR over the last three seasons compared to 9.2 for Prado,
and he had the much stronger most recent season. Once again, he’s also the more available. I really don’t see the advantage other than age for Prado, and given last year, I’d be really hesitant to make a bet on that, especially considering the comparable trade prices.
Now that I look more closely at it in a less addled state, I definitely see your point with Scutaro.
I’m not sure why I thought he wasn’t very good. At 1 year, $6 million, bringing him in looks like a good idea.
As for the 2nd place/3rd place strategy…I’m perfectly happy with a 2nd place in 2012 (a supposed rebuilding year) if we are able to snag a wild card berth. Frankly, any 2012 success is gravy to me.
If we are able to get Beltran, wouldn’t that be a 1st place move anyways?
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I agree, Beltran is. He should be the Rockies focus until they're a bit more certain he's out of reach
I really don’t know if other teams are as keen on him as Lozano’s trying to make it sound. The market for OF’s just isn’t that great this year.
Do we have anybody with significant salary coming off the books after 2012?
Because if we don’t and we spend all that money this offseason, then we have no flexibility for 2 years
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
It's complicated
1) JDLR and his $10.5million could be coming off the books (but I think it’s unlikely) because he has a player option for 2013.
2) In addition, both Betancourt ($4 million) and Linstrom ($3.6 million) have options.
3) Belisle and his $3.7 million are due to come off the books (but he’s a guy I could also see us resigning) – Same with Giambi and his $1 million.
4) Finally, Jason Hammel will be in his final arbitration year in 2013 (He’s du to earn $4.7 million this season). This is interesting because if he’s terrible, the Rockies could just drop him and free up that money.
So the answer to the root of your question is probably “The Rockies can free up some cash if they really need to but it’s not a guarantee”.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 14, 2011 8:22 AM MST up reply actions
Someone correct me if I am wrong
But JDLR contract also has a club option for 14, assuming the player option for 2013 is picked up.
Correct
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 14, 2011 8:29 AM MST up reply actions
It should also be noted that the Rockies are going to lose a little bit of flexability
regardless due to increases in the Cargo and Tulo contracts. ($2.5 million for Cargo and $1.8 million for Tulo)
These contracts have created a weird situation where right now the Rockies have more money committed to 2017 than they do 2016, more money committed to 2016 than they do 2015, more money committed to 2015 than they do 2014, and more money committed to 2014 than they do 2013.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 14, 2011 8:36 AM MST up reply actions
True
But I thought the idea behind the Cargo/Tulo extensions was that, as thier salaries grow, so too will the overall payroll due to near-certain increases in team revenue – the net effect being that the roster flexibility will be more or less constant going forward (all else being equal, of course).
But maybe that’s too naive/hopelessly optomistic of me. ;-)
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
If the Rockies start winning more than they did in 2011
I think this will be the case. However, the backloaded $ commitment of team’s total payroll is an unusual situation that I think needs to be pointed out whenever we are thinking long term with the Rockies.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 14, 2011 8:46 AM MST up reply actions
isn't that why we just traded for 4 cost controlled pitchers?
are moving toward a cost controlled group OF, C, 3B, SP, RP while trying to contend now?
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
the thing is thought that their big salary jumps are after 2013 for Tulo (going from 10 to 16 mil) and 2014 for Cargo (going from 10 to 16)
So a 2-3 year big contract to a Beltran would fit perfectly into this window before Tulo and Cargo’s salaries really start to escalate.
Before then, its just 2 mil a year increases for both players.
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by purplesocks on Dec 14, 2011 12:07 PM MST up reply actions
So there may be some flexibility if needed…I just think DOD wants to make a move but never wants to make the type of move that harnesses him from doing something in the future, because then you put your job on the line
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 14, 2011 9:30 AM MST up reply actions
What if the Rockies end up giving $15-$18M to Yu?
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
$60mm post
$10-14mm on salary. the rockies will not do that when it would hamstring them for YEARS after the fact, even if he is any good in the majors
Not to mention, if he has the choice to leave Japan or come to Coors, I don’t see that happening
I don’t see us ever paying a pitcher ever again
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 14, 2011 8:12 AM MST up reply actions
That 15-18 number includes the posting fee - I'm talking per year
Using the Matsuzaka posting/contract as a model (which, depending on which all-knowing MLB analyst you read/believe, may be either too high or too low to be a good model), we’d be talking about $50M to post plus about $50M over 6 years to sign. That’d end up being about 16 and half per year.
Again, not saying this will or should happen. This is just a thought excersise.
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
Doesn’t the post money come up-front just to get to the negotiating table?
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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That's right.
If the Rockies were to post $30M, $50M, whatever… and then don’t sign Yu, the Rockies get thier money back.
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
Who does the posting money go to?
Is it like futbol and it goes to the club?
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 14, 2011 10:05 AM MST up reply actions
I'm pretty sure it goes to Yu's Japanese team
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by purplesocks on Dec 14, 2011 12:08 PM MST up reply actions
Not going to happen, Rockies don’t do risky moves, Beltran and Cuddyer are borderline risky, let alone paying 75$-100 mil to a Jap with limited proven success
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 14, 2011 8:07 AM MST up reply actions
sorry didn’t mean for Jap to sound bad, meant to be short for Japanese pplayer
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 14, 2011 8:08 AM MST up reply actions
sorry
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 14, 2011 8:10 AM MST up reply actions
Not saying this is going to happen.
And certainly not that it SHOULD happen. I just think its interesting that we have this confluence of circumstances that could be seen as the basic ingredients for a Yu signing…
The need for TOR-potential pitching (believe me, I understand the “potential” part of this – certainly unproven/risky).
A Front Office feeling the pressure to make an “impact” (read: “splashy”) signing.
The space in the budget to make it happen.
As far as Yu choosing to stay in Japan (and pitchers’ reluctance to come to Coors in genral), I don’t see that as a barrier. If the Rockies won the posting, it’d be Coors or nothing for Yu, and at the dollars we’re talking about here, I don’t see the guy saying “no.”
Of course, there are a TON of reasons why this is either unrealistic and/or a horrible idea. Again, I’m not saying this will or should happen. I’m sure it won’t (and it shouldn’t). I just thought it was an interesting thing to contemplate.
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
Weirder thing have happened
Nobody expected Chapman to end up as a Red
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
I would retire on that money...
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by Junction Rox on Dec 14, 2011 10:57 AM MST up reply actions
High Price
For Niese:
According to Matt Cerrone of MetsBlog, the Mets and Blue Jays had “fairly substantive talks” at the Winter Meetings for a deal that would send left-hander Jon Niese to Toronto for catching prospect Travis D’Arnaud and a young, back-end starter.
Sounds far-fetched. Niese is under team control through 2015 and obviously has trade value, but D’Arnaud Toronto’s best prospect. The Mets would need to throw in more for Jays’ GM Alex Anthopoulos to even consider pulling the trigger.
Trade with AA at your own risk …
Before the Beltran rumor took off yesterday,
I was actually going to bring up what people thought of a Rosario centered trade for Niese. I like Rosario a lot, but I’d probably go through with that trade given Niese’s skillset and performance to date.
wouldn't that then shoot the Ianetta trade in the foot?
I thought the trade was to open room ahead for Rosario?
I thought it was the other way around
Of course those were the obvious additions to CI leaving, I guess I just thought it opened the roster spot to Rosario to be the backup and potential starter of the future
I should back up a couple steps and say that I doubt the Rockies see this the same way as I do.
The team is probably keeping Rosario and therefore not getting Niese. Having said that, yes, I’m sure Rosario’s presence made it easier to trade CDI, but given the two year contract to Hernandez, it’s pretty clear that this wasn’t the primary motivation.
I don't think Niese
Is worth Rosario plus another prospect. He is a decent MOR guy, but not top-flight. Rosario has OBP issues, and K% is a red flag, but with his defense at C and proven power potential I wouldn’t write him off so quickly.
I'm not a big Rosario fan
But I’m even less of a Niese fan. He has decent stuff and put up good strikeout and walk numbers, But he is never healthy and his production never matches his ability.
I'm actually a bit confused by the statement "production never matches his ability"
Niese’s issues to date have been health and efficiency related. The first is where he’s a bit of a risk, but the second is common for pitchers at that age, particularly LHP’s and something many will outgrow. He’s at the stage of his career where it would be ideal to get him before the “production matches” his ability, because if you wait until after it happens, he’ll no longer be available to a team like the Rockies.
When I first about Niese’s availability I posted here commenting how I wished we still had Iannetta so we could have tried working a deal centered around Rosario (or Iannetta if by packing him with some other younger guys that might have attracted NY). I received absolutely no support for that idea.
I like Niese I think he’s a solid pitcher and would be a good get. I see the injury risk but I’d be willing to go with it. And I do think he’s an efficient SP. I think his big issue has been he’s collapsed in the 2nd half of the season. Not sure off the top of my head if that might have stemmed from fatigue, injuries/health, or what. But I agree that age is probably a part of that and with experience he’ll be able settle down and become a good, consistent pitcher. I think it was you, but could wrong, who compared Niese to having an Aaron Cook type ceiling and that’s pretty much on par with my expectations for Niese, though with a longer window of being at his peak form. For that kind of production I would gladly have given up Rosario when we still had Iannetta.
Now, I am less open to the idea as we would be creating one hole (Hernandez is nothing more than a stopgap) to fix another. Quality catchers are hard to come by and do we want to give up a young, potentially quality catcher for Niese when there might be other ways to address the pitching situation? Perhaps….as the list of hyped catching prospects that actually live up to their hype is far shorter than those that end up bombing, so whose to know if Rosario ever becomes what we all really, really, really want him to be? Plus, its always cheaper to acquire catching than pitching. But given that we have a valuable and hard to come by quantity in Rosario who could prove to become a better player than Niese and we no longer have a plan B I am less open to such a trade. Is Niese enough of a trade off to merit the gamble?
Initially, I was against the trade completely. Since, however, I have pulled a 180 and at this point I think I would ultimately support it. For one, Rosario is still a gamble. Niese is more a known quantity who still has upside at a more valuable position. And maybe what really tipped the scales for me was the idea that it will always be easier and cheaper to bring in a competent catcher in the future than it will be to bring in a competent starting pitcher. For those two reason I think I’d be fine with this trade.
And maybe this is a pointless idea but I’d be even more open to such a trade if we could find a way to expand it in such a way that we can bring Daniel Murphy back.
by Adam2011 on Dec 14, 2011 1:40 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I just want to say I agree pretty much...
You took a lot of time here and actually described pretty much my evolving thinking on the subject as well. Initially it didn’t occur to me at all, knowing the Mets needed a C, even when we had Iannetta, but as I looked more closely at Niese, it seemed more worthwhile.
Niese = Cook?
Cook Career GB% 57.4; K% 9.8
Niese Career GB% 49.1; K% 19.2
Not remotely the same guy.
So ..
You would trade Rosario and another prospect (which happens to be the ask) for 2 years of very good pitching (4+ WAR) surrounded by 7 years of meh pitching?
No thanks.
I actually said Cook in haste (I had even mistakenly thought he was a RHP)
I do think he has a higher ceiling than that. Quite a bit higher.
I think he has that ability in him too
Maybe its homerism a little but Aaron Cook was my favorite aspect of the 2008 season so me comparing Niese to that is not intended as any slight.
Not sure
A 3-4 starter pitching every five days qualifies as a “more valuable position” than a catcher with 500+ABs and solid defense, but maybe that’s just me.
First off, is Rosario a 500 AB+ catcher with solid defense or is that just what we hope he can become?
Second, for the Colorado Rockies a long term #3 starting pitcher, is imo, the more valuable position.
Definitely what we hope he can become, though the tools and talent are certainly there
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I think the statement ...
“at a more valuable position” is context neutral. Risk with Rosario, yes. Risk with Niese? Also yes.
So put values to the risks...
The risk that Niese is unready to contribute positively on Opening Day 2012 is much less than it is for Rosario. Given his contact rate assuring a low batting average right now, the risk that Rosario is unable to contribute positively in the MLB at all going forward is much higher. So while yes, both have downside risks, they aren’t equal risks.
Likewise, the risk that Niese performs well and reaches his ceiling is higher than the risk that Rosario does.
The one risk that Rosario does have an advantage with is the risk that if both players reach their ceilings, the Rockies will miss out a bit on production. It’s there, but I think you’re overvaluing it in this scenario.
If we are talking risk ...
For 2012 it is a nobrainer.
Don’t get me wrong – I like Niese. But to say a 3-4 starter is more valuable than a catcher … I just can’t agree.
Now if you thin Niese is better than a 3-4 starter, then maybe he is worth Rosario+. I just don’t believe that.
Is Nieses’ floor higher than Rosario’s? Hell yes. But as you acknowledge, his ceiling isn’t nearly as high either (well, you say the Rox “miss out on a bit of production” understating what Rosario’s ceiling is).
So … not equal risks. Agreed. But in the abstract, what is more valuable – a 500AB cost-controlled catcher with good defense/power or a #3-4 starter?
ask the Angels
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Iannetta is not cost-controlled.
One-year deal.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 14, 2011 2:30 PM MST up reply actions
Rosario's not a catcher yet, though.
He’s a potential catcher, and that’s a key distinction. And yes, I think Niese is better than a four. He’s a solid three, possibly a two if he develops well as a LHP.
Fair enough ...
I don’t know of anyone who thinks he is a potential #2 – until now.
You question Rosario and I acknowledge the downside to him, but prefer to dream on the upside. Plus, we created a hole a C so really it would not be wise to trade him now unless you are happy with a parade of Molina’s coming through Denver (and I don’t mean Yadier).
Rosario questionable
I agree. Wilin lacks seasoning and depth. He is not someone the team can hang their hopes on. He has yet to show the consisteency needed to be a regular player. If Hernandez gets hurt evil things could happen.
by Real Perspective on Dec 14, 2011 10:45 AM MST up reply actions
I'm not writing him off at all.
That I think we could trade a prospect as risky as Rosario for a valuable young MLB player should be an indication of that.
if Rosario was truly secondary
then the Rockies really gave Iannetta away for nothing.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 14, 2011 11:44 AM MST up reply actions
That's unfair
Chatwood was the #2 prospect in the Angels organization this spring. He has value.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 14, 2011 11:46 AM MST up reply actions
He really does.
The Rockies are clearly taking some statistical risks this winter, though, in trusting their scouts on several of these moves.
I dunno
I know a lot of angel fans, including one prospect junkie, that are not the least bit concerned about losing him, and none really love CDI all that much. Regardless of how you feel about the trade, leaning on that ranking isn’t all that persuasive.
How fickle are they?
Because had you asked them last season, if they knew Angels prospects at all, I’m guessing they would have been fairly concerned about losing Chatwood. Leaning on the opinions of fans who might have a skewed view from watching a rushed prospect might not be that persuasive, either.
That is certainly true
or, it could be that the guy was clearly overrated, as the trade suggests that the Angels FO, and not just fans, think is true. I think its a luck darts trade for us, maybe we get a stud, maybe a bust, most likely a “guy”. He does have some value, in the same way any real prospect has value. But when a so-called “#2 prospect” is given up for a lukewarm veteran, and nobody in the fanbase cares, its worth something. I remember this place practically burned down when Matt Macri was traded.
FWIW, Halos Heaven was fairly concerned about trading Chatwood. They felt they sold extremely low on him.
And this is a fanbase that had Mathis as their starting catcher last year.
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Could be
I didn’t speak to every Angel fan, for sure.
I would actually argue that with their dearth of minor league pitching depth, the Angels trading Chatwood speaks very highly of him.
They just wanted Iannetta that badly, and O’Dowd stuck to his guns.
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They also have Conger though
Maybe they just didn’t think they had much need in bringing in a catcher at the expense of a highly regarded prospect? Don’t know just guessing.
Also, fans have an invested interest in their prospects. More times than not they are the last ones to give up on them.
Explain to me why I am supposed to fear Cahill and hate Chatwood?
Cahill
Age 21
183 IP 4.63ERA 4.5K/9 3.6BB/9 helped by playing in OAK .89K/BB in 74 Road innings
Chatwood
Age 21
142 IP 4.75ERA 4.5K/9 4.7BB/9 pitched better on the road
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
On with the arms race
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 14, 2011 8:18 AM MST up reply actions
When I first read about nieses availability my first post here on the topic was I wished we still had Iannetta so we could offer up Rosario. That post definitely did get a warm response.
by Adam2011 on Dec 14, 2011 11:21 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
Spending Money
Joe Saunders was non-tendered by D-Backs. Left handed ground ball machine who battles, eats innings, Angels forced to part with in Dan Haren trade but has been very effective pitcher.
He'd be a solid add, but how open would he be to the Rockies with other suitors?
That’s always the biggest question with any FA pitcher, and it’s usually not a positive answer. Still, given that most of the interest in Saunders right now is for bottom of the rotation slots that lack job security, he’d fall into that Jason Marquis boat that we could probably snag him with a more guaranteed slot in the rotation.
So tell him he's #2 behind Chacin and ahead of Nicasio,Slowey and Hammel.
Untill JDLR is back to full strength and then he slides to third. Might be fun to have a lefty heavy rotation for a change.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Surprisingly decent GB%
but at the price (several million, I assume), couldn’t the Rox just bring back Francis for less? Similar peripherals, and Francis walks fewer.
He threw 200 innings last year
It meets what O’Dowd wants.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
Why not offer Beltran a $14m upfront and two mutual options to be Negotiated.
It gives both sides flexibility if he decides he doesn’t like it here or he builds his value higher than we can afford. We can also dump him if his health goes south. It also gives us the opportunity to pay him less or more as we see fit to value him. Do it with respect and he might bite.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
I don't think that's going to cut it.
I think it’s going to take 2 guaranteed years at the minimum. One of the other reasons why I like Beltran is I think he provides a significant trade piece. Even if you are eating salary. But what do I know?
Not sure how much higher he can build his value
Coming off a near 5-WAR season (151 wRC+) at age 34 (35 in April) – which is also why I think we probably don’t get him.
He would be playing in Coors to make his numbers gaudy.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
It would have to be more like $28-30M up front
for two years, plus an easily attainable (if reasonably healthy) third year option for the same annual salary. That way, if he appears in 250 games over two years (or something around there), it’s basically the three year contract he seeks.
Otherwise, it’ll have to be a straight 3 year deal for slightly less overall money.
I can see a two year deal
with a vesting option based on games played. Seems like it would be fair to both sides.
I think Muzia suggested this the other day for another player
Front loaded contracts are the way to go for players over 30.
fwiw, I love this idea
Resolution and I have been talking about all kinds of different contract ideas and other outside the box stuff. I like it.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 14, 2011 12:02 PM MST up reply actions
contracts can be totally slick ways to lure people I think…
I like OldFoagie’s idea too though I think it may be more club friendly than Beltran-friendly…
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
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Make the options tradeable?
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
reply fail.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Proceeding under the assumption that Beltan is going to sign (with somebody) on a 2-year guaranteed deal
what’s the most we’d be willing to pay him?
I want Beltan just like everyone else, but say we’d had to give him something like $17MX2?
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
Beltran
Although, someone named Beltan would be awesome, too
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
This is about where I stand as well.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
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At some point
it becomes better to fill other holes on this team with all the money instead of just one.
Yeah but if we can trade Smith to fill a hole or two and those players don’t take us over budget why not aggressively go after Beltran. 34 may be to aggressive for that, but I would prefer the Rockies do whatever they can to get him
I'm saying
If they sign Beltran at that price, they may not even be able to afford what they could trade Smith for. The budget may only be 17 million, we don’t know.
I agree: but I think we need that third thumper in the line up more than another pitcher.
If Beltran can be that transition untill Arenado or somebody blossoms into that guy; I’m comfortable with it. I am more worried about or defense at 2b than I am about a marginal bat upgrade there.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
I'd really like the Rox to scope out Megatran
Supporting efforts to create a genetic splice of Jonathan Herrera and Troy Tulowitzki since 2011.
The NewNugs 2011 - Officially back on the Bandwagon
I <3 Johnson
by SurfaceThought on Dec 14, 2011 9:27 AM MST up reply actions
It depends a lot on what the Rockies are willing to offer Cuddyer
If they are going to offer him an outrageous $11M X 3 ($33 million total), then I’d rather see them spend that money to go $17M X 2 ($34 million total) to get Beltran. However, if the offer to Cuddyer is going to be a $8M X 3 ($24 million total) then I’d stop at a more reasonable $14M X 2 ($28 million total) for Beltran.
If we get Cuddyer signed to a reasonable deal and Beltran wants a fortune, I won’t be all that upset. However, if we sign Cuddyer to a large contract and Beltran goes for just a little bit more, I’ll be freaking furious.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 14, 2011 9:36 AM MST up reply actions
And if we sign Cuddyer
and don’t trade Smith for anything useful, I will be additionally furious
Supporting efforts to create a genetic splice of Jonathan Herrera and Troy Tulowitzki since 2011.
The NewNugs 2011 - Officially back on the Bandwagon
I <3 Johnson
by SurfaceThought on Dec 14, 2011 9:40 AM MST up reply actions
This this this
The market hasn’t developed for Beltran yet, so I don’t think anyone has a sense of what he’ll go for – but if he’s available for marginally more than Cuddyer, there’s NO reason why we shouldn’t pick him up.
Where I see us running into problems is that Cuddyer is going to go very soon, whereas Beltran might not get signed until January – I can see DOD getting nervous and just signing Cuddyer because he’s afraid that if he passes on Cuddyer and then gets muscled out of Beltran by someone with a deeper pockets, it’ll be the worst thing ever.
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 14, 2011 9:40 AM MST up reply actions
So, basically
Here’s to hoping that Dex become the next Beltran ;-)
Supporting efforts to create a genetic splice of Jonathan Herrera and Troy Tulowitzki since 2011.
The NewNugs 2011 - Officially back on the Bandwagon
I <3 Johnson
by SurfaceThought on Dec 14, 2011 9:44 AM MST up reply actions
I don't think Dex has ever had Beltran's bat speed
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Red Sox just traded Jed Lowrie along with Kyle Weiland to Houston in exchange for reliever (and Coloradan) Mark Melancon. Guessing this may take Scutaro off the table?
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
talk about selling low on lowrie
arenado: it's Rockie for future
no kidding
available for a song, apparently
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They must be serious about moving Bard to the rotation, I guess. Melancon wasn’t too bad for Houston last year.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
He's a good bullpen guy to have
but yeah, that price is much lower than we had previously thought
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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If that's all it was going to take
I wish we would have been involved.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 14, 2011 9:47 AM MST up reply actions
it's like uggla all over again
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Another DO(H)D moment sponsered by your Colorado Rockies.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
And they wouldn't have taken Street?
At least we were able to pry Nick Schmidt away from the Padres.
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
Melancon is a league minimum player
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So we get less salary relief to spend on phantom players.
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
I'm saying that it has become obvious
the Red Sox aren’t going to spend $8mil on a non-closing relief pitcher.
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And I believe this is in part because of Papelbon
They can’t justify spending a number anywhere close to what he got on a less talented reliever without fans getting angry.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 14, 2011 10:37 AM MST up reply actions
Street can still close...
You are right though, Boston went with a cheaper option. I’m just bitter that we dumped salary for nothing…on the Padres, no less.
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
This. So much this.
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 14, 2011 11:02 AM MST up reply actions
That's not going to make Ellsbury very happy
Apparently they are BFF’s
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 14, 2011 9:46 AM MST up reply actions
I like this deal for both sides
Red Sox get their closer cheap, which makes Madson unnecessary, and the Astros get a shortstop to replace Barmes along with a starter to compete for their rotation.
The Red Sox keep Scutaro to help bridge towards Iglesias? They should find themselves a longterm shortstop better than Iglesias, who looks like the 2nd coming of Adam Everett.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
It also may mean they think Jose Iglesias is close
(even though he’ll probably bat about .190)
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 14, 2011 9:51 AM MST up reply actions
Who is our next best MI behind Rutledge in the food chain?
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Story and Herrera
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
Rosell Herrera I mean
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
The Mets might take an offer on Murphy if we got them a MI who's close.
He catches the ball just fine at second but his footwork around the bag is truely scary. The Mets are wary of him their accordingly. They want a better catching prospect with hopefully better defense than Thole. They don’t have enough infield depth that’s projectable to MLB level. Everyone they have is flawed in one way or another.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
how close are you talking?
Field, Rutledge, Adames, Story, Herrera are all decent-good names. Only Rutledge and Field have a shot in 2012
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And Rutledge wouldn't even be to late year so it's really just Field
We’re probably screwed again at this position.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 14, 2011 9:58 AM MST up reply actions
Start Keppinger at third, and let LeMahieu start at second until Rutledge comes?
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
Keep Keppinger at 2B, play DJL at third until Arenado comes.
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Keppinger sucks at second
I’d rather the Rockies go all out glove at the position next year. Not saying LeMahieu is an all glove guy, but I’d rather play defense at the position until a potential plus second base bat comes in Rutledge. I don’t like the idea of signing Keppinger, and I think we’d be better off getting 15 runs of defense and no offensive value from Field than signing a .317 career wOBA bat with negative value in the field. If we sign a full time outfielder or platoon Smith, we’ll be fine.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
No sale on Keppinger for me.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Agreed
I’ve been extremely confused by the love he’s been getting in some quarters since being non-tendered…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
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by Junction Rox on Dec 14, 2011 11:15 AM MST up reply actions
he's really bad
arenado: it's Rockie for future
I'm really not comfortable with Thomas Field as the Opening Day starter for 2012
really not comfortable
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beyond Jayson Nix uncomfortable
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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Field/ Jonny platoon?
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
What would be the goal of that platoon?
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Don't wear either down to a nub.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
To finally test, once and for all, if fans will, in fact, turn out to Coors Field no matter what?
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
by Gasstation1 on Dec 14, 2011 10:30 AM MST up reply actions
how about a field and anybody but Jonny platoon?
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 14, 2011 10:18 AM MST up reply actions
I'd rather have Jonny than EY2 at 2b
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
at least EY2 has the potential for offensive dynamism
Herrera brings a solid glove to the table, and that is it. He’s a known entity at this point.
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I'm saying I'd rather have a solid glove and no offensive upgrade than less D and a marginal offensive upgrade.
We base our pitching staff on ground ball pitchers. I don’t see a marginal upgrade offensively offsetting the run prevention.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
It's not like Herrera is triple snaps at 2B
He was just slightly above average last year according to UZR and TZ.
But why sink below average if our upgrades aren't going to bring in enough offense to make any difference?
It’s like we are telling the pitching staff not to give ground ball to the right of Todd or left of Tulo. Or we could bring back Belliard to play shortfielder.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Because automatic outs suck to watch
And probably aren’t great to play with either. Why not just run EY2 or Nelson out there and see what their true talent level is?
I think we already know that EY2 is not going to make it defensively at
Nelson I don’t know about.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
That way you're not slowing or causing a prospect
who maybe has more potential by throwing them into something they’re not ready for.
Right.
He’s a “decent defender” who is fine as your 25th man, I guess.
But he is an absolute black hole offensively. Just awful. There should be no reason to willingly throw him out there unless it’s a “emergency break glass” situation.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
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Playing field everyday might create a tinkling sound.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
at least Field has the potential for some pop in his bat. Herrera gives us sadness.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
He out slugged Stew.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
a can of Dinty Stew could outslug Stew
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
my tought is that at least EY2 brings something to the table, although it may not be the best food (metaphor for his glove) at least he brings food (speed), Johnny just comes to the table
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 14, 2011 10:25 AM MST up reply actions
Wait, who's this Jonny Platoon?
What is his SAR? Scrap above replacement…
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
He's very high on SAR.
Scrappiest of the Scrappy and very special.
The off-season sucks.
That is all.
by DAWNMARIE01 on Dec 14, 2011 12:44 PM MST up reply actions
Neither am I, but it's better than Keppinger
Signing Keppinger would be a signing to make a signing. I hate, hate the idea of blocking a young guy with something to prove with someone who is not going to help the offense improve.
Marco Scutaro and Martin Prado are upgrades. Keppinger does not give us anything better than what we have.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
100% agree
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
This!
I’d rather start Nelson, Field, LeMahieu or even EY at 2B than sign Keppinger. He doesn’t add anything. If 2B is going to be a hole again next year, I at least want to avoid throwing more money/roster spots down into it.
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
by Gasstation1 on Dec 14, 2011 10:26 AM MST up reply actions
If they're not ready to play at the ML level
doesn’t it make sense to let them season in AA or AAA, rather than come up, get lost at the plate, and perhaps retard their development? All for the price of $1.5-2M for Keppinger?
All I've heard is that Field is an all glove player with some starting potential due to power shown
And it’s not like he’s Arenado, Field has had a full season at AA. We’ve already established that AAA doesn’t help our players.
I’m advocating for dealing with a .600-.650 bat at second but with excellent defense until a better option comes along.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
If we're really concerned with Field's development and we can't find a trade for a starter
then sign Nick Punto.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
Nooooooooooooooooooooo
Tracy is Gardenhire Light, and Punto will end up getting 600 ABs and playing SS full time.
I'd love to see Tracy try to rip the starting shortstop job from Tulo
Maybe we’ll get rid of him like Hurdle if we sign Punto!
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
Sorry :/
I know Punto is a shitty bat, but he’s got the best glove and has stayed above 1.3 WAR for 4 years straight. We know we’re barely going to get any offense out of second base unless we make a trade, so I’m just thinking of all defense first options.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
The only one who has a potential average bat is Nelson
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
What are we paying a hitting coach for if not to help players adjust?
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
There’s “adjustments” and then there’s “alchemy”
You can’t turn a not-talented player into a talented player.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
by Muzia on Dec 14, 2011 10:47 AM MST up reply actions 2 recs
I was talking about Field
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
I know
He’s most likely a glove-first utility guy with a bit of pop, and not much more.
What adjustments are you really looking to make?
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
That remains to be seen
His OBP has been pretty good throughout his minor league career. If the knock on Keppinger is that he doesn’t walk, then Field deserves a look, because he does. And I think he’s better defensively than Keppinger.
Young players can get lost at the plate if brought up to early.
They also might respond to the challenge. I did not see enough of Field to really make a big oppion except he seemed to be a little in awe of some of the breaks he was seeing. I might open his front foot about six inches and have him stand more upright with his feet about four inches closer togeather. It might help him see the ball better without screwing his mechanics up too much. I won’t be firm on that untill I see more.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Unfortunately I think we get neither and will suck at 2B again
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 14, 2011 9:55 AM MST up reply actions
Yeah
I guess he falls into the “not very good but doesn’t toitally suck category” – Which is where are probably aiming now.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 14, 2011 9:58 AM MST up reply actions
Notice how when I get really mad I can't write a sentence properly :-)
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 14, 2011 10:00 AM MST up reply actions
It fits with the theme of Spahn, Sain, pray for rain mantra for next year
He’s another guy that could have a better than average year, contributing to the team’s success or becoming a trade chip in June-July.
Saunders would fit that mold, too. Even if he’s the second coming of Brian Bohanon.
Funny thing about Rockie 2B
guys that could have a better than average year – They never do.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 14, 2011 10:02 AM MST up reply actions
Jamey Carrol had a career year in 2006 (3.1 WAR)
and Kaz had a good year in 2007. Neither were particularly young either. It can happen.
The
highest career wRC+ for any player who has ever played 2B for the Rockies is Jeff Frye. There have been brief glimpses of hope from some of the guys on this list, but for the most part it’s been an endless merry-go-round of suck.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 14, 2011 10:27 AM MST up reply actions
That was 98 plate appearances...
You can add Todd Walker’s half seasons in ’00 and ’01 to the list to Kaz and Carrol, but that was way back.
It's more about the 104 wRC+ than it is about the player/# of PA's he had when he got there
If that’s your best ever at a position, it’s revolting.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 14, 2011 10:39 AM MST up reply actions
The Red Sox are kidding themselves if they think he hits enough to be a starter
Even at shortstop.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
with their lineup
he could OBP .250 and still score 70 runs
arenado: it's Rockie for future
They're not expecting him to rake
Iglesias already plays some sick defense—perhaps gold glove caliber already. Even if he hits at a slightly below league average clip, he could still be a ~1 WAR guy with that outstanding D. Besides, at 21 he has room to develop, especially if he works on his patience at the plate.
beat me to it.
I think it does take Scutaro off the table. I think Colorado is going to look at the non-tenders for their 2B, unless Prado comes back into play.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 14, 2011 9:53 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
I'll live with Keppinger for 2012
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Keppinger might provide a slightly-higher batting avg. than Field
But not OBP. Field’s better on defense.
Why would we pay Keppinger $3 mil or so in arb. instead of $450,000 to Field?
Makes no sense to me.
Because Field has very little MLB experience, and there is no reason to believe he’d post his milb numbers in his rookie season?
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Remember 2008?
Nix was our Opening Day starter at 2B without a real backup option. He fell on his face, and we were sunk.
I’d rather not go into the season with our only legit backup piece as the full blown starter. We’ve tried that experiment before.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
i think it's rather farfetched to say that nix sucking was the cause of 2008
arenado: it's Rockie for future
I’m saying banking on a guy with zero experience to be a full time starter for the year is an awful plan.
If we throw Field in there, and he flounders, then what do we do?
If Keppinger sucks, we can always Jose Lopez him without much of a sunk cost.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
meh
if we get solid enough production elsewhere, it won’t really matter. i’d rather save the money
arenado: it's Rockie for future
for....?
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
anything, really
2013, even
arenado: it's Rockie for future
more Monster Nacho stands?
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
expanded helton burger!
arenado: it's Rockie for future
and jeff keppinger will not make a significant change on our 2012 lineup
we’re talking about jeff freaking keppinger versus tommy field? god, this is going to be a long offseason
arenado: it's Rockie for future
We're talking about a cheap, disposable part (Keppinger)
vs. a young, potentially viable backup IF who probably needs more time in the minors, but could have some long-term value.
Plus, if Keppinger is good trade him for a C+ minor leaguer or be satisfied that he produced surplus value. If he’s not, it’s a cheap investment and he can be sent away with little issue.
Keppinger has a pretty close to league average career OBP.
By your standard, half the players in the MLB are “automatic outs.” Something tells me that math might be a bit off.
jury's still out on math
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Justice is slooooooow
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
I'm not advocating against Keppinger
I’m advocating against giving the position to a mostly unknown quantity (even less known than Nix ’08).
but why?
what’s really the difference, given the total circumstances that 2012 carries? save the $3 mil for beltran or next year, when there’s a real FA market
arenado: it's Rockie for future
have you seen the market for middle infielders this offseason?
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Yeah, but the Dodgers are just creating a market inefficiency.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
If it's $3M, then I see your point.
But I’m guessing more in the $1-1.5M range. He had a crap year last year, but was hurt and had decent numbers before that. At that price, he’s worth the gamble.
the 8 hole is generally pretty irrrelevant
unless you’re new york, boston, or texas
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Or Chris Iannetta
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Unless there are several other bats that are, at best, average
Only Cargo, Tulo, and, if healthy, Helton and Hernandez can be counted on for above average production. There’s a lot of hope for Dex to be added to that after the second half. After that, 3B and 2B are looking to be pretty mediocre. The third OF is a question mark until we know who is signed.
So, in sum: 2B, 3B, and 1B (if Helton gets injured) have the potential for sub par offensive production. One OF spot is up in the air, and we all hope second half Dex is the CF next year.
didn't help though
if you aren’t part of the solution…and all that.
I love this guy
I think he’d have a great year at Coors. Let’s get him
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 14, 2011 11:34 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
I think Colorado is going to look at the non-tenders for their 2B
/And the nightmare continues
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 14, 2011 9:54 AM MST up reply actions
That's 3B
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 14, 2011 10:00 AM MST up reply actions
We can't have multiple Pits of Wonders?
I want my money back!
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 14, 2011 10:04 AM MST up reply actions
/And the nightmare continues
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 14, 2011 10:49 AM MST up reply actions
So is Fontenot
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
wasn’t he tendered by SF?
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Unless the Red Sox deal for Ramirez
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
Marlins are really dumb if they trade him now IMO
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 14, 2011 10:04 AM MST up reply actions
hahaha
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 14, 2011 10:11 AM MST up reply actions
You know... this is starting to grow on me
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
I'd get it lanced.
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 14, 2011 11:26 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I stared at it
for about 2 minutes earlier… I still don’t get it. Why?
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 14, 2011 11:27 AM MST up reply actions
I've liked it the whole time.
I would probably hate it if I were a Marlins fan and had to see it all the time. But as an occasional novelty, I think it’s awesome.
It IS very Miami.
The off-season sucks.
That is all.
by DAWNMARIE01 on Dec 14, 2011 12:46 PM MST up reply actions
It really is.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Since its obvious we are going to get Cuddyer or Cody Ross
Do we go CarGo Tulo Cuddyer?
Or go Tulo CarGo Cuddyer?
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
Out of curiousity, what would be your reason?
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 14, 2011 10:12 AM MST up reply actions
Hmmm
Originally my thought was that CarGo is faster and Tulo hits the ball harder, but looking at the numbers…
Tulo – OBP: .634 SLG: .505
CarGo – OBP: 350 SLG: 521
If Tulo gets on base more than CarGo, and CarGo mashes better, maybe it’d be worth it to try Tulo in the 3 hole and CarGo as clean up. However, I’m iffy about CarGo holding up under pressure – he didn’t really get going this year until they took him out of the 3-hole and he started hitting lead-off.
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 14, 2011 10:20 AM MST up reply actions
Also
This post is a lie – Tulo does NOT get on base 63.4% of the time.
That should read Tulo – OBP: .364
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 14, 2011 10:21 AM MST up reply actions
Yeah I was just curious, makes sense to give CarGo and his base stealing a threat on before Tulo, but if R L R really makes that big of deal then maybe it would be worth a look.
I wonder what the difference between 3 and 4 and the AB per season? Then the question would be would you rather have Tulo have X nubmer of extra at bats or CarGo?
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 14, 2011 10:23 AM MST up reply actions
Yup
Honestly, IDK if you could go wrong – Tulo is an elite bat, and CarGo is a very very very very good bat. I think filling the space around them is the more important question for this season.
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 14, 2011 10:27 AM MST up reply actions
OMG
Ty Wigginton will be a free agent! The guy is an all-star, and he can play tons of positions… you think DOD can pull the trigger on that?!
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 14, 2011 10:31 AM MST up reply actions
matchupzzzzzzzzz
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 14, 2011 10:32 AM MST up reply actions
The hilarious thing about this
is that he’s listed twice as a 1B and 3B
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 14, 2011 10:33 AM MST up reply actions
And don't forget about the clubhouse presence!
Perfect fit!
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
by Gasstation1 on Dec 14, 2011 10:32 AM MST up reply actions
Anything is better than madonna
Period
Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
Idk...
I was really drunk and they were still really bad.
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 14, 2011 10:31 AM MST up reply actions
That's not better than anything.
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
At least
That would make me laugh
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 14, 2011 10:48 AM MST up reply actions
I think this might be incorrect
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
I agree...
Funny how that works, isn’t it? All the guys on here see Madonna as a bad choice, but we don’t… In fact, I might not have even watched the Super Bowl before I knew Madonna was going to do the halftime show. I wonder if the NFL maybe had this in mind…
Madonna is an icon
There is no way you can ignore the impact she had on the music scene. I think she’s great. And really who is Lady Gaga without Madonna paving the way? Just IMO.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
And really who is Lady Gaga without Madonna paving the way?
Just another dude trying to make his way in the music business, most likely…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 14, 2011 11:47 AM MST up reply actions 2 recs
I'm saying
that Lady Gaga is a bit derivative of Madonna in her stage presence but she goes much more OTT. And I don’t think it’s a bad thing at all.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Her stage presence as I noted :)
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
I agree.
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 14, 2011 12:00 PM MST up reply actions
The whole format is stale
Step one: Pick A. Aging superstar who’s best work was done 20-30 years ago, or B. Current superstar who won’t cause too much of an uproar.
Step two: have them play a forgettable medley of their greatest hits.
Step three: have cheerleaders dance with kids who have no idea who Tom Petty is but dammit if they aren’t going to smile a lot and hope to make it on Mickey Mouse Club someday.
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 14, 2011 12:10 PM MST up reply actions
Can’t we have the ghost of Kirby Puckett play right field and the halftime show? Solve every problem at once.
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 14, 2011 12:22 PM MST up reply actions
Grr, Tried to backspace and it messed up my browser.
Madonna in her prime would be perfect. I don’t dispute her status as an Icon.
That being said this is a Sporting event. The NFL really needs to find something inbetween popular artists that have horrible stage presence (BEP), and aging Pop/Rock and Roll stars of yester-year.
If I was picking a band that would satisfy the lowest common denominator, I’d pick a band like Maroon 5 or something.
Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
they already did the NFL Kickoff Show
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
with moves like that jagger fellow, i hear
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Part of it probably has to do with who is available to perform
and at what price. I think Prince should be the perennial halftime performer but that’s just me.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
And see, I'd stay far far away from the Super Bowl knowing that Maroon 5 was in it.
I think the NFL knows what they’re doing, here.
It would be interesting to see ratings seperated from the halftime show and the actual game
If my teams not in it, I’m still going to watch the game regardless of the halftime show. And watch something else during the halftime show.
Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
I gave up on that.
The officiating is a joke.
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 14, 2011 12:15 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
All they do is sniff each other's rears.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
the refs?
The off-season sucks.
That is all.
by DAWNMARIE01 on Dec 14, 2011 12:50 PM MST up reply actions
Yes
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
I’ll watch that over the game itself if Moral Orel The Quarterback makes it.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
by Franchise26 on Dec 14, 2011 12:16 PM MST up reply actions
been hating him for years
certainly not going to stop now
arenado: it's Rockie for future
I've got nothing against it
If everyone liked the Broncos, then something something…
Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
two straight Rockpiles of dog talk
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
uncalled for.
sure Madonna’s best years are behind her, but she can still put it together sometimes.
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 14, 2011 12:17 PM MST up reply actions
(there’s the answer I was looking for)
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
I almost always watch that at half time.
The off-season sucks.
That is all.
by DAWNMARIE01 on Dec 14, 2011 12:50 PM MST up reply actions
Granted i dont listen to a ton of music, i feel i should know who does the super bowl halftime show, and I don’t…I feel lost right now
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 14, 2011 10:30 AM MST up reply actions
ohhhhh I thought the post said the black keys will be playing the halftime show not madonna…
idiot
wednesday
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 14, 2011 10:31 AM MST up reply actions
It's very possible that the Superbowl halftime show is the most overrated thing in the history of the universe
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 14, 2011 10:31 AM MST up reply actions
I just don’t get why they try to be so bland. There are tons of unique performers they could put out there in an effort to get people to say “man, I never saw anything like that before.” To me it’s very low risk, high reward. The ratings for the Superbowl are always going to be through the roof. I do not see the addition of Madonna improving those ratings in any significant way. And the backlash is going to be far louder than anyone who is going to say “Man, that was a great halftime show,” save the puppets on the Today show.
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 14, 2011 10:39 AM MST up reply actions
Lowest. Common. Denominator.
There’s your Superbowl audience. Someone like Madonna who’s well past it but has name recognition is perfect. JLo next year.
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
Small correction:
The superbowl halftime show audience is lowest common denominator.
The SB is the steak, the halftime show is the garnish. You can throw a sprig of parsley on there and call it good, but why not try for some really cool carved radishes or something? If you mess em up, people still aren’t going to complain that much because, hey look! Steak!
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 14, 2011 11:07 AM MST up reply actions
2nd that
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 14, 2011 10:43 AM MST up reply actions
hasn’t been good since janet jackson
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 14, 2011 10:43 AM MST up reply actions
How dare you, sir! How dare you!
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
the black whats?
arenado: it's Rockie for future
my thought exactly
The off-season sucks.
That is all.
by DAWNMARIE01 on Dec 14, 2011 12:52 PM MST up reply actions
The Black Keys are fantastic.
I highly recommend them. (Have seen them live, too, and they were just as good as I hoped.)
yeah, i just typed them into slacker radio, and the only bands i'd heard of under related artists
were modest mouse and the white stripes…
arenado: it's Rockie for future
hipster music
stay away
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Just sayin' ...
… you’ve heard them before and maybe didn’t know it:
“Set You Free” was featured on the soundtrack for School of Rock, as well as the 2009 comedy I Love You, Man.
“When the Lights Go Out” was used in trailers for the film Black Snake Moan and was featured in the erotic opening sequence with co-stars Christina Ricci and Justin Timberlake.
Additionally, “10 A.M. Automatic” was used in Live Free or Die, The Go Getter, the soundtrack to MLB 06: The Show and an American Express commercial.The Go Getter also featured “Keep Me” as did Sons of Anarchy’s Season 1 Episode AK-51 & Old Bones.
Grown So Ugly" was featured on Cloverfield and “Girl Is On My Mind” on Sony Ericsson, Victoria’s Secret, and in November 2010, Zales commercials.
The Kinks cover, “Act Nice and Gentle” appears in the eleventh episode of season four of Rescue Me.
“Just Got To Be” was featured on the soundtrack to the video game, NHL 08.
“Your Touch” was featured on the 2009 film Zombieland as well as the HBO series Eastbound & Down.
The Black Keys recorded a cover of “The Wicked Messenger” for the soundtrack of I’m Not There and have recorded “If You Ever Slip”, a song written by Jesse Harris for The Hottest State soundtrack.
“Strange Times” was featured in the video games Grand Theft Auto IV and NASCAR 09.
“I Got Mine” is used as the theme song for Canadian Police Drama TV Series The Bridge. “Lies” was used in episodes of Big Love and Lie to Me, and was covered by Kelly Clarkson live on her All I Ever Wanted Tour.[Ed. you know you’ve made it when you are covered by KC!]
“So He Won’t Break” was featured on an episode of One Tree Hill.
“Tighten Up” (featured on the FIFA 11 soundtrack)
“Howlin’ for You” (featured on the NHL 11 soundtrack and used as the theme song to the Australian Police Drama TV Series Cops L.A.C.. and also featured in the movie Limitless. The Toronto Blue Jays baseball franchise has also used a portion of it in their promotional advertisements during the 2011 season.)
“Chop and Change” was featured on the soundtrack of The Twilight Saga: Eclipse.
“She’s Long Gone” was used to promote the second season of “Swamp People” on History Channel.
Grammy Awards
2011 – Awarded Best Rock Performance by a Duo or Group with Vocal for “Tighten Up”.
2011 – Awarded Best Alternative Music Album for Brothers.
2011 – Awarded Best Recording Package for Brothers.
2011 – Nominated for Best Rock Instrumental Performance for “Black Mud”.
2011 – Nominated for Best Rock Song for “Tighten Up”.
2012 – Nominated for Best Pop Duo/Group Performance for “Dearest” from “Rave On Buddy Holly”.
Taken from Wikipedia.
yeah … guess you could say they are sellouts. And yeah, I did just parse all of that from their Wiki page. Beats talking about Cuddyer at this point.
my eyes focus on the word "alternative"
arenado: it's Rockie for future
When mainstream ...
Is crap like Maroon Five I’ll take it, even if I risk running the hoster music labe thank-you-very-much.
The BEPs are sellouts.
If you change your music, style, attitude, meaning so that you make more money, that is the definition of sellout.
Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
Money exchanged hands every single time...
to use songs, sometimes way out of context, to sell TV shows, movies, video games, cell phones and lingerie to millions of people. Yep. I think that’s pretty much selling out. Now the question is whether they pretend that it’s anything less. I don’t mind commercial artists, but I don’t like them to pretend that they’re producing something that’s above pop standards when they really are not.
But you're assuming that anything that is used commercially
is of a certain quality, and no higher. Maybe I’m quibbling with the negative connotation more than anything.
Creatives can value their work however they want to.
This group seems to have little discrimination about where or in what context their music sounds best, they don’t care if it’s clipped or cut or edited for commercial purposes, and the market seems to agree, so yes, I think it is of a certain quality, and no higher.
Now lets repeat the non-conformist oath
I promise to be different!
Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
So someone comes to you ...
… and says – he RG, we really like what you wrote on the blog the other day … we’d like to use it on The League … we’ll pay you. Are you a sell out?
And who knows what they “pretend?” They love all music from blues to hip-hop to The Clash. I don’t know how they position their music … the main point was if you think you’ve never heard the Black Keys chances are you are mistaken unless you live in a bubble.
Nope, haven't seen any of those or heard any of those songs.
/not a hipster
The off-season sucks.
That is all.
agree
I thought 2011 sucked pretty bad. I have nothing to add to that.
by prettyinpurple on Dec 14, 2011 3:52 PM MST up reply actions
I think Tom Petty was the only SB Halftime Show that everybody was happy with – men, women, young, old – I mean, who hates Tom Petty? But when I’m the Sports President Of the Universe, my first action (after contracting the Denver Broncos) will be to make Queens of the Stone Age play the SB Halftime every single year and just melt faces.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
by Franchise26 on Dec 14, 2011 12:09 PM MST up reply actions
Prince was amazing
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
see my comment above
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
below
I thought 2011 sucked pretty bad. I have nothing to add to that.
by prettyinpurple on Dec 14, 2011 12:12 PM MST up reply actions
Heh. Hard to navigate
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
: )
I thought 2011 sucked pretty bad. I have nothing to add to that.
by prettyinpurple on Dec 14, 2011 12:17 PM MST up reply actions
Well there's one comment above
about Prince being the perennial SBHT performer
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 14, 2011 12:17 PM MST up reply actions
That was me
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
I know
so technically “see my comment above” could be in reference to the comment that was, indeed, above.
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 14, 2011 12:18 PM MST up reply actions
Many people praised Prince as well.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
that and Springsteen are probably the only 2 half time shows I've ever watched
The off-season sucks.
That is all.
by DAWNMARIE01 on Dec 14, 2011 12:52 PM MST up reply actions
I can't picture Cuddyer in a Rockies uniform
I can however Picture Beltran in the Black Cut off
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
Don't worry
The FO will fix that for ya real soon
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 14, 2011 10:34 AM MST up reply actions
NOT TODAY YESTERDAY
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
by Muzia on Dec 14, 2011 10:36 AM MST up reply actions 3 recs
Black Cut off?
Will his midriff/muffin top be showing?
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
or is he wearing black cutoff shorts?
The off-season sucks.
That is all.
by DAWNMARIE01 on Dec 14, 2011 12:53 PM MST up reply actions
Beltran over Cuddyer
Even with Beltran’s injury proneness, I would rather seem an OF of Cargo Dex and Beltran (with Smith subbing in for needed days off) than with Cuddyer. That is an OF that can cover some ground and hit.
What the hell you lookin' at?
…what could the O’s possibly offer, and how does that speed up their rebuild?
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Is Josh Bell still any good as a prospect?
Matusz or one of the other young arms might be a big part, but I don’t know what’s there beyond those guys.
I can't see Matusz being the centerpiece of any deal
Machado is a great name, though they would be stupid to throw him in there.
They need to be trading away names, not trading for names
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Rumor had it Adam Jones was in it, but one O’s source said that would be ridiculous
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 14, 2011 10:44 AM MST up reply actions
damn the luck
bq.Rival executives expect that Michael Cuddyer will land with the Colorado Rockies.
Which means it's likely more than what the Twins offered him
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 14, 2011 10:45 AM MST up reply actions
From Buster Olney via Twitter
Buster_ESPN Buster Olney
Rival executives expect that Michael Cuddyer will land with the Colorado Rockies.
Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
I'm so apathetic at this point.
really don’t want it, but until someone signs on the dotted line, I’m refusing to get emotionally invested.
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 14, 2011 10:43 AM MST up reply actions
QUICK: Change the offer and low ball the shiz out of him
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 14, 2011 10:45 AM MST up reply actions
Forgetting money, yes and Cuddyer would be our Twiggy of 11
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 14, 2011 10:47 AM MST up reply actions
I haven't really heard $$ figures for the Beltran deal.
Is it really out of the question?
What the hell you lookin' at?
by Johnny Tits on Dec 14, 2011 10:48 AM MST up reply actions
Yes, in all reality yes its out of the question, not because of money but because that would give us like 9 OF’s, they do not want Cuddyer to play 3B or 2B full time
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 14, 2011 10:50 AM MST up reply actions
would give us a sweet lineup though, I like the thought, but we would be strapped for the next 3 years with likely $25 million dollars a year locked up in two guys in their mid 30’s
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 14, 2011 10:52 AM MST up reply actions
yeah
anytime you are trying to fix your team via FA you are gonna get yourself into that position. You gotta bite the bullet sometimes though.
What the hell you lookin' at?
by Johnny Tits on Dec 14, 2011 10:53 AM MST up reply actions
Renck shot the idea down yesterday pretty quickly, even if we were to Trade Fowler for Prado
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 14, 2011 10:50 AM MST up reply actions
We were tossing around ~$13-17M/yr over two years with a vesting option earlier in this thread
And management have made it clear that they are not interested in a long contract at 3B (in your scenario, Cuddyer) that would block Arenado, who is just about ML ready.
you could theoretically move him to the other black hole at 2B
What the hell you lookin' at?
by Johnny Tits on Dec 14, 2011 10:52 AM MST up reply actions
His defense would be so atrocious there that it would
cancel out a good chunk of his offensive contributions.
probably right
What the hell you lookin' at?
by Johnny Tits on Dec 14, 2011 10:54 AM MST up reply actions
Depends on how much Cuddyer ends up taking
Assuming they are able to get him. But Willingham may be a better choice as an overall player than Cuddyer.
If the Rox are competing with 4 other teams for Beltran, chances are he will be too pricey. We should know within the next several days.
by Real Perspective on Dec 14, 2011 10:52 AM MST up reply actions
And I would have paid Willingham slightly more than Cuddyer so I really don't think I'm going to like what comes next
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 14, 2011 10:54 AM MST up reply actions
at least we aren't talking about Stewart at 3B again.
Perfect fit for the Cubbies though. I wish I could listen to Ron Santo announce their games with that head case playing his position.
What the hell you lookin' at?
by Johnny Tits on Dec 14, 2011 10:56 AM MST up reply actions
Only if you’re cool with Cuddyer being the everyday 3B.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
by Franchise26 on Dec 14, 2011 10:48 AM MST up reply actions
That's what I am thinking.
Better than the turds we have now.
What the hell you lookin' at?
by Johnny Tits on Dec 14, 2011 10:49 AM MST up reply actions
No one should be comfortable with that
He’s not a 3B … has only played there sporadically & isn’t very good at it.
He is not a good 3B, or even an adequate 3B
Rosenthal
More than 50 scouts saw Zumaya throw today in Houston. Report from one in attendance: 93-96 mph, decent cb, OK cmd. “He’ll get a job.” #MLB
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
I'm fully expecting very bad news on the Rockies overpaying Cuddyer front within the next couple of days.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 14, 2011 10:53 AM MST reply actions
#Braced
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 14, 2011 10:54 AM MST up reply actions
Yep.
Cuddyer is the worst case scenario, IMO
by CarloWitzki on Dec 14, 2011 10:54 AM MST up reply actions
I wouldn't mind Cuddyer at a decent price
But I don’t think we’re going to get that either
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 14, 2011 10:55 AM MST up reply actions
Well, 3/25 was the floor and 3/30 was the ceiling so...
I mean at least we’ll be spending money on something besides Liz Taylor jewelry for the two Mrss. monforts.
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
Cuddyer lost his Twins leverage
Unless the Phillies get involved again we won’t need to pay 3/30
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
but we already had an offer on the table
You can’t just pull the offer and submit one for 5mil less because someone else signs.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
We didn't have an offer on the table.
There was an implied understanding, but no offer. The Rockies probably can’t go too far from that and save face for future FA’s, but I would expect them to go down some.
The amount of the Rockies’ bid for Cuddyer is unknown, but it’s likely in the $25 million to $27 million range, considering the market and the Twins’ offer to Cuddyer, who hasn’t ruled out returning to Minnesota.
Is “bid” different than “offer” in this case?
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
O'Dowd said that they never made him an offer
so yes, “bid” in this case is probably that implied agreement that they’d beat the Twins deal if he was amenable to leaving Minnesota.
nope, by Jim Bowden.
Actually by O’Dowd himself on Bowden’s MLBRadio show. Here’s the Twitter link, though.
Let's see, moving from Minnesota to play in Denver...
This is a no brainer. Why would anyone want to stay in Minnesota if they didn’t have to?
by Real Perspective on Dec 14, 2011 1:36 PM MST up reply actions
word on the street is, Buffalo is coming for you.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
PRMLB: The Brew Crew
Well, as long as it's only Buffalo,
Why worry? Actually, though, isn’t Buffalo a pretty substantial mafia base? Or am I making that up?
I’ve never heard that, though it could be true. GEICO has a strong presence up there though!
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
PRMLB: The Brew Crew
but according to that, the crime family sounds much like the city itself.
law enforcement and the media have estimated the crime family’s current underworld presence at anywhere from one of the most powerful crime families in La Cosa Nostra to being on the verge of extinction.
The Twin Cities is a pretty nice metropolitan area
And the people there are quite nice.
However, Denver doesn’t have -20 winters every year.
Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
Why not?
That would be sufficient enough to piss Cuddyer off and he’d likely sign somewhere else.
I like this strategy.
by CarloWitzki on Dec 14, 2011 11:02 AM MST up reply actions
How about we sign nobody and force the FO to deal?
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
What's Ross's price range?
If it’s one year and $5-6M with an option, that might be better in the long run. Super SSS, but in 80 Coors Field ABs, he’s hit 312/353/588. Ruthian!
please don't remind me...
We all know he kills the Rockies. I’ve pointed out, though, that he kills most of the NL West division, so we’re not alone in that.
Looks like a 1 year deal for a decent salary might suffice from the Rockies
I think he’s got the best chance to have an ;04 Burnitz-type year, which hopefully is all the time we need to bide before a prospect shows they’re ready.
I know him and Smith would be two fourth OFs, but he could be the RH complement needed and a competent backup at the other spots.
I would actually rather sign Ross
IF IT’S GOING TO BE CHEAP, platoon him with Smith, and spend our money elsewhere than overpay for Cuddyer.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 14, 2011 11:17 AM MST up reply actions
Anything under $8M for one year
The length is the key to me… don’t get saddled with an old guy if you don’t have to.
How does that scenario play out in 2013?
Smith’s declining production and raising salary, plus the commitment to Ross make them both entrenched at the position despite the team starting to get diminishing returns. Colvin wastes on the bench and in AAA without MLB opportunity, stunting his growth and value. The Rockies won’t be able to trade Smith for the value they can now because everybody in baseball will see he’s on the decline. The Rockies won’t have the money to spend on this fantasy real upgrade, because it will be tied up in two fading parts.
I don’t know for sure if the sign Cuddyer and trade Smith is any sort of upgrade to this picture, I think it is, because I think Cuddyer’s a better bet to retain value than Smith, but it does allow Colvin to grow in a favorable setting. To me whether it trumps scenario A is entirely dependent on what the team can trade Smith for right now.
Once again, signing Beltran beats both scenarios, so that should remain the focus.
This is where we disagree
I think Cuddyer will regress more than Smith due to their age.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 14, 2011 11:28 AM MST up reply actions
Is 2011 Smith a sign of things to come, or just a fluke
Because he was looking very Brad Hawpe out there.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Smith actually looked much better last year than he did in 2010
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 14, 2011 11:34 AM MST up reply actions
Seth smith at times had several face palm moments but he wasn't nearly as bad as hawpe
PRMLB - Tampa Bay Rays
This assumes a two year contract to Ross
and that he’s untradeable. Can’t sign him or Cuddyer to a contract that would render them worthless in a trade (assuming all else works out).
I think Ross does sign for two years,
There are enough teams with that level of OF need, but not willing to spend more on Cuddyer.
I don't think there was an offer
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 14, 2011 11:03 AM MST up reply actions
Did the Willingham deal actually happen?
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
Unless something gets worked out with Cuddyer?
Haven’t seen a ‘done deal’ tweet yet.
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
I won’t go that far, but I will get sick of watching him strike out on the high fastball
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 14, 2011 10:56 AM MST up reply actions
Hardly...
Worst case scenario is a mystery team swoops in and we end up signing Cody Ross as our big FA splash.
Correct.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
I will second that
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 14, 2011 10:59 AM MST up reply actions
meh
i’d rather ross than cuddyer
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Only this board could make bringing in an All-Star outfield bat from the right side sound like a franchise-sinking mistake.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
by Franchise26 on Dec 14, 2011 10:56 AM MST up reply actions
Ty Wigginton would fit this description
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 14, 2011 10:58 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
hahaha, i am waitng for the fact that when we do sign him, it will take 2 days and people will be convincing themselves he is awesome and will win the NL West…probably because of some number with a + or – sign that says he hits 2 seam fast balls well on even numbered days
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 14, 2011 10:58 AM MST up reply actions
my argument will read:
When healthy, he’s a good hitter.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
It will basically be the argument that I've been making.
I don’t know how that would suddenly be changing my opinion. And no, if we sign him I won’t predict an NL West title.
Well of course not
That’s Jeff’s job
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 14, 2011 11:05 AM MST up reply actions
Actually, I think we've all been burnt by our predictions last year.
/2011.
I guess I should have said, no I won’t predict he’ll OPS 1.000
I'm willing to predict...
a solid all-Summer-long battle with the Padres for 4th.
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
Depends on what stamp the new owners of the Dodgers put on them.
They may decide to blow things up and do it there way.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Don't imagine...
Messers Kemp, Ethier, Billingsley, and Kershaw will go anywhere.
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
Ethier might.
The rest of the cast needs another call.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
If we can get a Scutaro/Prado along with a solid pitcher
I wouldn’t put it out of question. We would have a lineup where everyone except the 3rd base position would be able to put over a 100 OPS + (and Arenado could do that when we comes), a good bullpen and insane starting pitching depth.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
then again
2011 likely negated 2007, so we should be back to even on the karma scale.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
What did 96-06 get us on the karma scale?
That had to be some serious depositis of the luck bank.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 14, 2011 11:18 AM MST up reply actions
Sounds a lot like the tongue lashing you gave us over the Carl Crawford signing.
we don’t need an overpriced outfield bat. we don’t need another awful fielder, esp an aging one. a former all star doesn’t mean we’re getting him in all star form.
there are a lot of legitimate reasons to not want Cuddyer, so don’t frame us as idiots because we don’t want to over invest in a crappy fielding outfielder who isn’t a definitive upgrade at the position.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 14, 2011 12:13 PM MST up reply actions 2 recs
Wait, are you talking to me? What tongue lashing over Carl Crawford? I’m just saying people are going to treat the signing of a solid player like we just took money and set it on fire, as though there’s no chance the guy could possibly be a positive contributor for this team, and I think overreacting is what this board does best when it comes to player personnel moves.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
by Franchise26 on Dec 14, 2011 12:36 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
We were lambasted for criticizing Crawford's poor OBP
And you mocked us over “wahhh he doesn’t walk enough”.
Cuddyer isn’t setting money on fire, but it’s not the clear upgrade the pricetag demands.
He’s 33. How long do we think “solid” is going to last before it gives way to cliched excuses as to why an overpaid veteran is underperforming?
Not seeing Cuddyer as the clear and obvious upgrade you do doesn’t make us all crazy. It doesn’t make us right, either, but it also doesn’t make the signing a good one, should it happen.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 14, 2011 12:46 PM MST up reply actions
Cuddyer barely outperformed Smith last year.
Actually, if you look at their numbers it’s very similar. Smith slugged higher, but due to park adjustments his wRC+ was lower (115 vs. 124). Some will argue that Smith had the benefit of not facing like-handed pitchers, but that’s not entirely true: about 20% of his PAs were against lefties. Meanwhile, Cuddyer faced lefties about 30% of the time, meaning he was sometimes pulled against right handed pitchers. Furthermore, I suspect that the park adjustment hurts Smith more than it should because, although he gets to play half his games at Coors Field, he still has to play half his games as a Rockies hitter on the road. Cuddyer will see his road splits take a hit when he comes here also.
So, to support what Andrew is saying, I think Smith vs. Cuddyer is close to a wash by itself. If you get that RH platoon partner, you could get substantially better performance.
I think he's
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 14, 2011 12:49 PM MST up reply actions
You get a little bit of joy every time you do that, don't you?
Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
I tried searching for it but it wouldn’t let me find comments past July when I just enter my name into the search field on the right of the page. Weird. You have the power.
Mea culpa, I suppose, but the original comment was flippant and probably came off nastier than I really intended.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
by Franchise26 on Dec 14, 2011 12:52 PM MST up reply actions
we cool
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 14, 2011 12:53 PM MST up reply actions
(Why aren’t you spending your time combing through my Reds farm system???)
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
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I can't use OOTP at work
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 14, 2011 12:56 PM MST up reply actions
Although I guess that's not really an excuse since the farm is probably the same as it is in real life
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 14, 2011 12:57 PM MST up reply actions
Yeah, that’s not an excuse. If you have a browser, you have OOTP
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
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He has a freaking cannon in though, that will be fun
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 14, 2011 10:56 AM MST up reply actions
Worst case scenario is a bit of an overstatement IMO
For the right price he can be a decent addition, and give us the flexibility of filling one of our holes through a Smith trade. What grinds my gears is the fact that there’s a better move out there.
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 14, 2011 10:57 AM MST up reply actions
Although I would love to get Beltran
I would much rather sign Cuddy at $8ish mil/year and get Saunders than just Beltran.
Cuddy + Saunders > Beltran
is it summer yet?
This is also a good point.
Cuddyer at a relatively decent level allows the Rockies another move. Beltran would almost certainly limit the team’s choices to minimal salary/minor league NRI’s to fill the remaining holes.
At $8M a year
I’d be very okay with this move – I’m afraid we’ll be somewhere in the $10-$11M/year range, at which point I’d rather go in another direction
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 14, 2011 11:39 AM MST up reply actions
Keith Olbermann says the Red Sox ripped the Astros off.
No idea yet on O’Reilly’s take.
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
Baseball America has been purchased by GrindMedia
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Doesthat mean we will have baseball porno?
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
I’ve got your tacos right here…
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
by Muzia on Dec 14, 2011 11:11 AM MST up reply actions 3 recs
Finally a reason to resign the Spilly 'stache
What the hell you lookin' at?
by Johnny Tits on Dec 14, 2011 11:11 AM MST up reply actions
That or Sushi?
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Is there some 7 runs = free sushi deal I don't know about?
Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
OH. MY. GOD!
Amazing
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
So BA will focus primarily on...
High effort, low-results white guys?
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
Renck tweets:
Rockies still firmly in ix to get cuddyer could happen today
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 14, 2011 11:35 AM MST reply actions
No
But the fact that it might happen today was news, at least to me
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 14, 2011 11:36 AM MST up reply actions
Has felt like weeks since this was just bound to happen.
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
chex mix
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 14, 2011 1:36 PM MST up reply actions
Get ready for an overpay.....
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 14, 2011 11:39 AM MST up reply actions
Indeed
The Wiggy of 2012. He’ll be better than Wiggy, but at $8 mil-plus he should be a LOT better. He’s not. Basically a wash on defense, marginally better offense.
But he'll be trade-able for even MORE salary relief!
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
marginally better?
Cuddyer’s last 3 seasons: around 116 wRC+ hitter
Wigginton’s last 2 seasons: around 87 wRC+ hitter
That’s a pretty big gap.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
You guys are completely overreacting.
You’re acting like he’s going to be replacement level. He’s a 3 WAR player who fits our offense better than Smith. I wanted Beltran too, but Cuddyer is a borderline all star bat who’s only likely to be starting full time in the outfield for a year. This signing is going to allow us to trade our outfield depth for a pitcher or starter who will help out team further.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
Granted if we overpay I won't be happy like the rest, but unless we go higher than 3/27
it’s not.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
Fixed.
You’re acting likehe’s going to be replacement level. He’s aonce posted 3 WAR, has recently accumulated less than 1 WAR in a season and a half of playplayer who fits our offense better than Smithand like Smith fares significantly worse against pitchers of the same hand. I wanted Beltran too, but. Cuddyeris a borderline all starsometimes uses his bat andwho’s only likely to be startingwon’t be able to play full time in the outfieldfor aafter this year. This signing is going to allow us totrade our outfield depth for a pitcher or starter who will help out team furthertrade a perfectly adequate 4th OF/platoon who has more value to the Rox than other teams.
I'm okay if it is 3/$24 ...
Any higher and I am not on board.
by Traindogger on Dec 14, 2011 11:47 AM MST up reply actions
He had a 3/25 to stick around in Minn.
can’t be lower than that.
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
why is everyone so focused on a few million over 3 years?
To my mind, if he’s worth 8 per year, paying him 9 or even 10 really isn’t that much sweat off our backs.
because it's stupid to promise pay a slightly above average 33 year old $10 million dollars a year into his age 34, 35, and 36 seasons
arenado: it's Rockie for future
then
it ought to be stupid to pay that same cat 8M or whatever. I take no position on the merits of Cuddyer, fair to say he doesn’t excite me at all. But I just don’t get all the hand-wringing over a few million here or there. We toss that kind of money away freely every year (see, eg, Lopez in 2011 and Wiggy in 2012). If the FO likes him, go freaking get him.
I think someone is forgetting Cuddyer’s versatility…
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
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Are you talking about...
matchupzz?
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
This is adding a year to Cuddyer's age,
He’ll turn 33 just before Opening Day 2012. We’d be paying him as a 33,34 and 35 year old. To me, that’s a big difference at the back end of that.
that really doesn't change anything in my mind
arenado: it's Rockie for future
the difference between 35 and 35 is pretty big
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
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Do tell.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
by Franchise26 on Dec 14, 2011 12:05 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
35 - 35 = infinity
For any other number, it would be zero. The jury is looking into it now.
Actually
35-35 = sqrt(-1)
Its imaginary.
Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
I think $10 million is where you start sweating.
That’s 25% over the value we’re placing on him, and if any consumer company raises prices that much, they could expect to take a huge hit in customers. I think it’s the same basic principle, and I agree with people who think it’s too much at that point.
I'm not saying its not "too much"
but really that we either believe in this guy as a valuable contributor or we do not. I just think this FO needs to show some vision, some courage in its convictions. If it thinks Cuddyer makes us materially better such that we are going to pay this old dude 25 million or whatever, then they should be willing to say he’s worth 30. The opportunity cost is small to nothing. If, however, they just want to make a splashy signing and to keep the price at a minimum, its all a waste of time anyway. Whatever. I lose no sleep either way, I just think the uber-analysis of a guy being worth 3/25 but not 3/29 or whatever is amusing.
Because I would rather have Willingham than Cuddyer and he got 3/21
So if we pay 3/30 or something like that, it’s at least $9 million that could have been put to much better use in my mind.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 14, 2011 11:59 AM MST up reply actions
Fair enough
I’m not disagreeing with the disdain for Cuddyer. But clearly DOD does not share your view, so the question becomes is Cuddyer worth signing at all? I can see a difference if he’s asking for 5 years or 3/50. But to me, if we want him and are willing to go to 3/25, just get it done already.
This front office is over low average, high SLG guys. That’s clear. Willingham was never really an option.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
That doesn't mean I still can't disagree with that decision
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 14, 2011 12:09 PM MST up reply actions
You can, but the FO makes the decisions
They are moving away from Willingham-type bats, and we have to weigh that evidence appropriately when discussing free agency.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Well
This is where we have to separate what is actually happening from what each of us believe should be happening. I realize the FO values Cuddyer more than I do and more than Willingham as I’ve stated repeatedly to prepare for us signing him.
But that doesn’t change that I value Willingham more and will believe that the Rockies (in all likelihood) will be overpaying for Cuddyer.
And if I then later find out that Beltran goes for just a little more than what we signed Cuddyer for, I’m going to erupt.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 14, 2011 12:24 PM MST up reply actions
Why Jeff Bagwell Should Not Make The Hall Of Fame: An In-Depth Study
This is your "must read’ link of the day.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
nice
arenado: it's Rockie for future
I clicked it, then looked around for the story.
It all made sense when I realized it was Grant.
I choked on my beverage.
Altar Boy in the Church of Santo Ubaldo
"...buffalo chicken is a fine anti-depressant, after all." -UZ
"... One order of buffalo wings, please..." -Yokel, after July 30, 2011
This remains the best Colorado Rockies blog about the Houston Astros anywhere on the innerwebz...
Also, Grant is funny…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 14, 2011 3:50 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
GO GOOOO Astros!!!
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Leading the Astros into the Future. Go, Go Astros!
by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 14, 2011 3:51 PM MST up reply actions
not a good path for rox to go down
with three years at 25, we only are getting a slightly above avg player. we will be tying up a lot of money that could be spent to bolster the rotation where most of our needs are. what it comes down to is that he is just not enough of an impact bat for that money.
Except the Rockies can't bolster the rotation with their money.
This has been one of my major points this offseason, and it keeps on getting lost. The only way to fix the rotation is via trade, and that’s entirely dependent on the teams willing to trade pitchers.
The FO did want to go after pitching early, if you’ll recall, when I was saying no, just stick to offensive parts you can afford, like Cuddyer and trade parts you have to trade for pitching. After a month and a half, it seems like they’ve figured that out.
I agree via trade is the only option
signing a big bat like beltran and trade smith(even though i am very high on him) to get a mid rotation starter I think is a better path for the long term. the big thing on the cuddyer trade for me is the 3 yrs. and he wont take less than that. I cant see him him making our club that much better.
especially not in years 2 or 3
arenado: it's Rockie for future
I'm fine with him as well
on a one year deal
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
yeah
so long as it’s cheap enough, anyhow…
arenado: it's Rockie for future
yeah pretty much
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/how-do-baseball-players-age-part-1/
Average
Age Change Cumulative
Couplet Players in LW Difference
33/34 342 -4.9 -19.0
34/35 272 -5.1 -24.1
35/36 189 -8.0 -32.1
arenado: it's Rockie for future
that didn't format well
but it’s in the article, so whatever
arenado: it's Rockie for future
So we're in a time warp? You took the numbers from 1950-1979, I noticed.
That helps your argument a bit, I suppose. As does the idea that Cuddyer’s already not likely to follow this aging curve, which is for all players, including the truly rotten ones, and more likely to follow the one that JC Bradbury talks about for players who stick around in the majors.
just because the decreases are smaller today
doesn’t mean they’re not present or not valid
arenado: it's Rockie for future
While we're using logic from 30 years ago
Personal computers are just a fad, they’ll never catch on with the general public.
Jason Giambi for player-manager in 2012!
How the world will end in 2012: George of the Roses builds a Machine that Pommels everyone with La Violencia during Whiteouts.
hardly an appropriate comparison
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=aging+curve+for+baseball+players
arenado: it's Rockie for future
No, it means they're less present, and less valid.
I didn’t say they weren’t, but I do think you’re exaggerating their effect on players at 34 and 35 years old, particularly for those players that are still productive in the MLB at 32.
Well, it seems to become more likely.
We’ve been talking about how a lot of our players have peaked well before that. I think somebody even implied that Smith is declining.
Question:
If we somehow leveraged Cuddyer down to 3/24, would everyone be happy?
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Happy? No.
Angry? Probably also a no.
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 14, 2011 12:19 PM MST up reply actions
no
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Yes.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
did any of you see tron
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 14, 2011 12:26 PM MST up reply actions
no
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 14, 2011 12:27 PM MST up reply actions
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 14, 2011 12:28 PM MST up reply actions
the bad one, or the good one?
arenado: it's Rockie for future
I found both artistically interesting...
And I hate science fiction. Maybe that helped?
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
no
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 14, 2011 12:32 PM MST up reply actions
Quite.
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
I think that's why I fell asleep.
I might’ve been tired, too.
I thought 2011 sucked pretty bad. I have nothing to add to that.
by prettyinpurple on Dec 14, 2011 12:33 PM MST up reply actions
no
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 14, 2011 12:38 PM MST up reply actions
Very pretty, I thought.
and I was not all that impressed with Avatar.
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
no
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 14, 2011 12:39 PM MST up reply actions
Yes, actually.
your disagreement has been noted and discarded.
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
please just click
there’s a joke.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 14, 2011 12:52 PM MST up reply actions
no.
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
NOT TODAY
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
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I fell asleep.
I thought 2011 sucked pretty bad. I have nothing to add to that.
by prettyinpurple on Dec 14, 2011 12:30 PM MST up reply actions
no
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 14, 2011 12:32 PM MST up reply actions
Yes...
Assuming Beltran goes for ~$16M/yr, aka too much for us
I’d still prefer a Gomes platoon partner for Smith, but getting Cuddyer at $8M/yr is a solid deal.
what if beltran only goes for 2 years?
arenado: it's Rockie for future
At that price, it's still too much
The bone-on-bone concerns are overstated but very real; I’d just feel really uncomfortable giving out $16+M to a guy with such apparent injury risks.
Also, the 2013 FA class is shaping up to be a very good one, and I wouldn’t want to be hamstrung by such a large contract in a market rich with IFs and SPs.
fair points
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Well happiness comes from within, and each individual person is predisposed to….. aw screw it.
Sure, I think he improves the team, but not over the moon about it.
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 14, 2011 12:24 PM MST up reply actions
I want him, period. I don’t think we get any better with the Smith/platoon partner solution, especially if it’s Jonny ’You’re Criticizing Cuddyer’s Defense And You Want ME Out There?’ Gomes. (Shit, why not just keep Spliborghs if the status quo’s good enough?) Cuddyer’s a good hitter, has a good arm, and I think he makes our team better.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
by Franchise26 on Dec 14, 2011 12:24 PM MST up reply actions
HEY HE SAID A POTTY WORD
arenado: it's Rockie for future
big arm does not mean good fielder
and it’s bound to be even more exposed in our outfield.
We’ve accepted that we’re going to have a lousy glove in RF. A platoon means we have someone in RF that mashes both lefties and righties, while Cuddyer is merely average against righties. I’m not paying $10m per year for someone average 75% of the time when we could be getting better than that for less money.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 14, 2011 12:36 PM MST up reply actions
I’m having trouble completely accepting Cody Ross as a suitable “big offseason signing”.
Cuddyer is certainly a flawed player, but he does fit fairly well. And if we can get him for around 8M/year, that’s not a contract that will hamstring our budget — especially if Smith can be used to improve other elements of the team as a whole.
I’m not going to buy a Cuddyer jersey, but we deserve better than Cody Ross.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
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Anybody But Cody Ross.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 14, 2011 12:48 PM MST up reply actions
I'd prefer Ross to, say, Ty Wigginton or Jose Lopez
Jason Giambi for player-manager in 2012!
How the world will end in 2012: George of the Roses builds a Machine that Pommels everyone with La Violencia during Whiteouts.
You're right, Ross would not be a big signing.
I’m saying the perception that Smith is bad because of platoons is going to make his trade value dick diddly dick compared to his actual production, and using that platoon would be a great way to exploit a market inefficiency.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 14, 2011 12:49 PM MST up reply actions
I'd much rather see Blackmon & Wheeler
given extended looks at minimum wage than Cody Ross as a free agent signing, even a “cheap” FA signing.
Let’s not forget that the Marlins RELEASED Ross due to poor performance in 2010. The Giants picked him up off the scrap heap & he got on a hot streak. He then regressed to releasable-by-the-Marlins level. And now he’s another year older.
So no thanks.
no
we would be paying a few million extra for what a Smith / Jones platoon would likely outperform.
or Gomes, but Jones gives you better RF defense, so that gives you extra value.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 14, 2011 12:26 PM MST up reply actions
I'm certainly not shelling out 11M to platoon Cuddyer.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 14, 2011 7:23 PM MST up reply actions
Who's shelling out $11 million?
Nobody’s shelling out that much. The dollars are important to your argument and you’re ignoring them. A fairly precise PT/split (including a real estimate of Cuddyer’s PA’s as a 1B/3B/DH) is important, and you’re ignoring it or downplaying it. You pretend to be writing from a neutral stance in all of this, but the bias is showing pretty clearly.
by Rox Girl on Dec 14, 2011 7:56 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm not pretending to write from a neutral stance.
Finding a way to pretty up a questionable transaction isn’t a neutral stance, either.
I want no part of Cuddyer. I’m completely biased. I don’t know what part of me saying “Getting Michael Cuddyer is a bad idea” comes to being neutral. If you’re accusing me of just waving the “Seth Smith Rules” flag, it’s not even that I love Seth Smith – I want the Rockies to run an optimal team, and that includes optimal use of funds.
Right now, his contract demands are way more than this team should shell out for him.
I haven’t forgotten that he’ll be playing 1B/3B, but I’m pretty sure that unless he’s cut or something, Giambi will be DHing. He played 14 games at 3B in 2010 and wasn’t very good at them. I’m willing to concede the “injured so he played 1B” thing in regards to bad 1B numbers, but there will be what, 20 games for him to play at 1B? 30? If we have Helton penciled in for 120, throw Giambi in there for 20, that doesn’t leave a lot of impact time at 1B.
The only way I’d be content in 2012 with a lineup including Cuddyer is if they bring in someone like Jack Hannahan or another strong glove weak bat 3B to be the Jamey Carroll, a la 2007, and THEN bring in a platoon player for Seth Smith.
I know I’m overstating my distaste for a Cuddyer acquisition, but just because we have 75% of him already here in Seth Smith. This team DOES need help, but I’m not convinced they’ll use the help properly even if they get it.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 14, 2011 9:55 PM MST up reply actions
His contract demands are way too much. We agree there.
His likely cost, however, isn’t going to be much higher than what the Twins offer was, if that. There’s simply no reasonable explanation for a team jumping on the chance to pay him more than $10 million per season now when they wouldn’t even sniff that figure up to this point. The Phillies expressed interest, and then backed far away, and are going another direction. They get used as leverage because their FO doesn’t talk and therefore it’s always a bit of a mystery if they’re in or not (like Cliff Lee) but Amaro filled the only likely spot for Cuddyer on their roster by trading for a versatile player that can’t hit with RISP.
The Mariners make some sense on the surface, but they’re also like the Phillies:
“A lot has been said and written, some true, some not true, some accurate and some exaggerated,” Zduriencik said. “In the end, it’s not in our best interest to talk about free agents.”
It’s pretty easy for an agent to create a false front with a team that takes that stance, and this is common for them to leak “interest” by the Mariners or Phillies to build leverage. It’s obvious to me that this is what’s going on, however, because before the weekend, it was all Twins and Rockies. The sudden interest just does not jive.
As for the Cuddyer part, I think I outlined my argument in the Rockpile today. It’s a relatively expensive exchange that O’Dowd is trying to put together in this case relative to the Hernandez & Chatwood for Iannetta swap, but much like that one, the sum value of the two pieces brought in should outweigh the sum value of the one that’s leaving in a way that wouldn’t be possible to replicate keeping the player and signing somebody else. Unlike that Iannetta deal, I think the numbers will be a bit more clear that this is the case with a Cuddyer+Player x vs Smith+ Jones or Gomes match-up.
Add Cameron ... ?
To the platoon sitch?
Ken Rosenthal of FOXSports.com reports that the Nationals are targeting free agent Mike Cameron for their bench.
Avg. 130 wRC+ against LH pitching … but he is also almost 40.
I understand your position,
but I’m still looking for an example in which two platooning players were successful in the way that you suggest Smith/Gomes would be.
I think it sounds good, but tends not to work out that way. I really think that Smith/Gomes isn’t going to be much better than Smith/Replacement Player.
I’d be interested in seeing some more evidence to support how this will all work into positive gains for the club.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 14, 2011 10:12 PM MST up reply actions
Mostly because a platoon partner is going to be cheaper than Cuddyer
and I’d rather us just chamber the added resources and make the big acquisition in a different market.
Unless we can get Beltran.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 14, 2011 10:35 PM MST up reply actions
Agreed.
And, as you know, I’d rather just keep the money on both the platoon player and Cuddyer, trade Smith, and let our army of outfielders figure it out.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 14, 2011 10:39 PM MST up reply actions
Not happy but I'd be able to live with this
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 14, 2011 12:29 PM MST up reply actions
Dependent on how much Beltran gets.
If Beltran gets $11mil, then I’ll be pretty upset. But if Beltran goes for 14 mil <, then I won’t be too upset.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 14, 2011 12:37 PM MST up reply actions
Yeah, sorry about that.
I didn’t see your comment before I posted.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 14, 2011 12:39 PM MST up reply actions
No I wasn't offended or anything haha
Just observing that we’re looking at this situation the same way
If Beltran goes between 11 and 14
as long as it is no longer than 2yrs I think it would be a good fit here. Let us not forget the bombs he hit at coors last year.
Revised Answer after lunch:
If the offseason is just sign Cuddyer+Trade Stew, Iannetta, Street+Acquire all the arms, then no, I don’t like it.
Pair Cuddyer with a good 2B, or a good SP, then I like it fine.
Freeing up money with the Street trade sent a signal they were wanting to spend. But just spending it on Cuddyer leaves me wanting a bit.
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 14, 2011 2:11 PM MST up reply actions
For Cuddyer, I'd pay 3/20
The writer formerly known as Jabberwocky
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Eschew Obfuscation!
Go Walt Go!
Reds general manager Walt Jocketty told John Fay of the Cincinnati Enquirer that he will look into free agent Michael Cuddyer.
“It depends on what he’s looking for,” said Jocketty. Cuddyer hasn’t accepted a three-year, $24 million offer from the Twins and Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com reported Tuesday night that he is looking for more than $30 million, so he’s likely outside the Reds’ price range. The Mariners are also interested, but the Rockies are the front-runners at the moment.
Wow, I must have missed it that he's still looking for more than $30M.
Is that just posturing? If the Twins, who seemed to be the team that wanted him the most, wouldn’t go beyond $24M, what makes him think he can get $30M?
MLB network commentators
seem to think the Rockies should get Beltran.
Hm. Rockies FO after Cuddyer so hard because he’s a “vocal leader”? “Intangibles”. These are some of the words I’m hearing from these MLBN guys.
Also, I just realized I’ve been pronouncing Cuddyer incorrectly.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 14, 2011 12:46 PM MST reply actions
...how have you guys been pronouncing it?
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Cudd-yer.
and it’s actually cud-die-er
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 14, 2011 12:52 PM MST up reply actions
i've been doing it right
now you’re making feel uncomfortable about that
arenado: it's Rockie for future
I actually agree with MLB Network for once
The video that plays next about possible breakout players was a good one as well. They listed Pomeranz on there.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
bauer too
not sure i agree with that one…
arenado: it's Rockie for future
i love bauer as a prospect
but he’s got 25 minor league innings under his belt… kid does not belong in an MLB rotation right away
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Just trying to point out
Cuddyer fits in the “character” aspect of the team.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 14, 2011 1:29 PM MST up reply actions
also in the "settling" aspect of the franchise
arenado: it's Rockie for future
But that depends on how you value one player over another.
I think it’s clear that the Rockies value Cuddyer differently than many here, and thus from an intent aspect, it probably wouldn’t be settling.
Troy Renck is a mystery
TroyRenck Troy Renck, Rockies
Working out on mystery assignment. Tweeting before i go into cardiac arrest. Cuddyer still looks good rox players have recruited him
Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
Holy crap. What does this mean?
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
He's buylng a really expenslve Chrlstmas present for hls wlfe ?
In all things, it is better to hope than despair.
Huh?
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
SHOWCASE
arenado: it's Rockie for future
I was sorta, kinda thinking this. Hell, at least in his case he has the capability of being an impact
Although who really knows. I doubt the Rox want to give him as long of a contract that he’s likely to seek.
Supporting efforts to create a genetic splice of Jonathan Herrera and Troy Tulowitzki since 2011.
The NewNugs 2011 - Officially back on the Bandwagon
I <3 Johnson
by SurfaceThought on Dec 14, 2011 12:59 PM MST up reply actions
Mountain climbing?
Jason Giambi for player-manager in 2012!
How the world will end in 2012: George of the Roses builds a Machine that Pommels everyone with La Violencia during Whiteouts.
Duh, he's just saying he's working out at Mystery Team's training facilities.
Where they’re talking to him about all the players that they are interested in.
worklng out...away from offce
mystery asslgnment…secret shopplng
textlng before cardlac arrest…. " holy crap thls ls expenslve"
Cuddyer stll looks good…..no worrles stlll worklng sorces
:)
In all things, it is better to hope than despair.
by butterfly on Dec 14, 2011 1:09 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I hope you're wrong
But you’re probably right.
Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
Yes I know. I was worried about his cardiac arresting.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
What the heck is it Renck is doing?
bq.TroyRenck Troy Renck, Rockies
Working out on mystery assignment. Tweeting before i go into cardiac arrest. Cuddyer still looks good rox players have recruited him
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 14, 2011 12:49 PM MST reply actions
Renck is retrieving that drone from Iran...
Getting all Chuck Norris on the Revolutionary Guard.
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
by Since1993 on Dec 14, 2011 12:57 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
The articles? I'd say 85% yes.
The comments…. probably not – especiallly not when he’s on a double super secret mystery assignment.
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 14, 2011 1:03 PM MST up reply actions
If it's Darvish, make that...
“Secret Asian Man,” like I originally mistakenly heard it.
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
he actually made a reference to rainbows and unicorns in A blog post in 2010
Which he admitted was inspired by one of our comments sections. I highly doubt he has time to read regularly though. Also, Ringolsby has mentioned reading in the comments on occasion
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 14, 2011 2:10 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Very nice
Reading through the RP comments takes a lot of… time.
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 14, 2011 3:15 PM MST up reply actions
sometimes DM too, but he's being tight lipped on this one
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 14, 2011 2:11 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
I think he does
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 14, 2011 1:38 PM MST up reply actions
marcus thames is a free agent
marcus thames wrecks left-handed pitchers.
screw beltran or cuddyer, a thames/smith platoon would freaking kill
arenado: it's Rockie for future
I could live with that, I think...
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 14, 2011 3:55 PM MST up reply actions
Now I don't know how to feel about Cuddyer
Rox continue to talk with OF Michael Cuddyer. If deal happens, they’ll back off on RHP Hiroki Kuroda. Trade or lower-cost FA is the ticket.
I want Kuroda more than Cuddyer.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
At this point I kind of just want them to do something...
Jason Giambi for player-manager in 2012!
How the world will end in 2012: George of the Roses builds a Machine that Pommels everyone with La Violencia during Whiteouts.
Kuroda's a pipe dream.
In every sense of the word(s).
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 14, 2011 1:22 PM MST up reply actions
always was,
this news is probably a way to try and ease up fan expectations. I just wish the Reds would get on and give up their farm for a pitcher like Jurrjens so that we can get Volquez.
And that's always been OK with me.
He’ll cost loads and is 37 with declining stats.
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
Thot the Yankees already sewed him up.
by Real Perspective on Dec 14, 2011 1:48 PM MST up reply actions
not yet
but I think they offered him $12mil.
They’ll be tough to bid against, especially this year.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
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It's still the idea
If they have the money to make one big acquisition, I would like it to be on a pitcher or an infielder. I was under the assumption we had more money.
I love, love the idea of a Beltran or Cuddyer signing, but if it precludes us from getting pitching or infielders, then I agree with AMart.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
The fact is there's just no other big IF or P out there...
We know Kuroda is highly unlikely to come to Colorado. What IF is there to spend a lot of money on?
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 14, 2011 1:26 PM MST up reply actions
rollins and fielder are infielders
arenado: it's Rockie for future
SS and 1B.
The two positions we don’t need any work on right now.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 14, 2011 1:28 PM MST up reply actions
just answering the question
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Rollins at 2B!
Bam!
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
Jackson, Oswalt (I know we're not in active pursuit, but we did back off Cuddyer for a while)
Prado and Scutaro would cost money.
My issue is that there’s disagreement about how money we can spend. We’ve been talking about being willing to spend 10 mill+ a year for Kuroda/Oswalt and then I hear we have just 9 mill to spend.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
I don't understand.
We have more than $9 million to spend.
Scutaro is less likely because of the Lowrie trade. We all know the Braves trade demand for Prado is ridiculously high.
The fact is it’s hard to get a FA SP to come to Colorado. Which is what we’re seeing taking place right now. We’re going to have to fill the need through the trade market.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 14, 2011 1:33 PM MST up reply actions
It was in Renck's blog a few days ago
He estimated we had 9 mill to spend
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
if we had 9 million to spend
we wouldn’t be looking at Cuddyer/Beltran/Kuroda
look at the RP’s the last couple of days.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 14, 2011 1:36 PM MST up reply actions
I think they just have room for one high-cost FA player.
I think they could still get a decent starter in trade, where you have a better idea of cost (and you’d be shedding some payroll at the same time, in the player being traded away).
This leads me to believe that they will be severely overpaying Cuddyer if they land him
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 14, 2011 1:29 PM MST up reply actions
Well it seems like they are saying that if they sign Cuddyer
Then most of their spending money will be used up …..
Trade or lower-cost FA is the ticket
Since they have plenty of $ to throw around, then a signing that would put them in that position would have to be for quite a bit (unless they plan on slicing payroll)
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 14, 2011 1:35 PM MST up reply actions
Even if they sign Cuddyer for $8 million, the team has what? $10 million to spend on FAs max?
That’s not enough for Kuroda anyway.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 14, 2011 1:37 PM MST up reply actions
The team has money to sign one big-name FA.
Beltran/Cuddyer/Kuroda/Jackson/Oswalt.
Whatever positions we don’t fill through that FA sign (probably IF and SP), we’re going to have to dip into the trade market/non-tender list to fill them.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 14, 2011 1:38 PM MST up reply actions
I never expected them to be able to sign two high profile FAs.
You could still trade for a high profile starter though, if you trade away Smith in the process.
I don't consider Cuddyer high profile
I consider him mid profile. He’s not that good.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 14, 2011 1:41 PM MST up reply actions
I'm talking about market perception.
In terms of cost, I think he is (though not on the Pujols/Fielder level).
This is where my idea of severely overpaying comes in
Signing a guy who is mid profile talent wise but considered high profile on the FA market is usually not a good idea. If you have enough money to sign one high profile guy, it better be high profile talent wise and not just high profile markett perception.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 14, 2011 1:53 PM MST up reply actions
I don't necessarily think it means that.
And I guess it depends on your definition of severely overpaying.
very generic statement that doesnt have to be backed up
#ProductofTwitter
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 14, 2011 1:39 PM MST up reply actions
MLB netwok Jim Duqutte says Beltran would love to play here.
Sean Casey says DOD prefers Cuddyers clubhouse intangibles. Discuss?
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Thanx... Just got thru cokking dinner
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
let’s sign both.
Cuddytran
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
PRMLB: The Brew Crew
That sounds like a robot
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
or an administrator Dr House would prefer NOT to sleep with
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 14, 2011 2:02 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
We've got enough clubhouse intangibles
Tulo, Cargo, Helton, Giambi. Hell, bring Spilly back if you want clubhouse intangibles.
I want someone who can play outfield well & be a feared No. 5 hitter. I don’t think
Cuddyer’s a feared hitter. Beltran is.
yup
we’ve heard too much crap about clubhouse intangibles, character, etc from this franchise the past few years. let’s sign freaking manny or do something with some cajones to it for once
arenado: it's Rockie for future
I don't think this is character in the same way they've meant it before.
We heard a lot toward the end of 2011 about how the team needed a tougher mentality, and many here agreed. I think that’s what this is about (and I think is the reason behind a few of the players that have left).
Lenny Dykstra is prolly looking for a job
#ToughasNails
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 14, 2011 1:45 PM MST up reply actions
Cuddyer is not tough
He is a softie father of twins
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 14, 2011 1:45 PM MST up reply actions
maybe it's his association from the twins
but i don’t see him as someone like that
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Josh McDaniels preferred character and intangibles too
#AlphonsoSmith
#DarcelMcBath
#RichardQuinn
#RobertAyers
#KyleOrton
#RussHochstein
#JarvisGreen
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 14, 2011 1:40 PM MST up reply actions
Tebow at 3B!
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
Tebow at both!
At the same time!
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
It's a miracle!
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Wouldn’t have to worry about HBP because he can’t hit anyone he throws at.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
by cthabeerman on Dec 14, 2011 2:20 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
boom
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Ayers is actually a solid player…
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
I believe so too
No Clay Matthews tho
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 14, 2011 1:48 PM MST up reply actions
How did NoShow Moreno not make the list?
PRMLB - Tampa Bay Rays
If O'Dowd views it that way, he's a lot dumber than I gave him credit for.
The writer formerly known as Jabberwocky
READ and LEARN about the business of baseball at Purple Row Academy
Eschew Obfuscation!
Replaces Lowrie
Chances of Scutaro becoming a Rockie just increased.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
YES
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 14, 2011 1:41 PM MST up reply actions
Nick Punto is a Red Sock?
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 14, 2011 1:41 PM MST up reply actions
for 2 years apparently!
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
for $3.5 milllllllllllllllllion dollars
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 14, 2011 1:48 PM MST up reply actions
I'm going to stick to my guns here
If he doesn’t start over better options, it’s a good deal, he’s a very good glove and can take a walk. Great utility guy, and if I were forced to dip intothe remaining free agent market if no trade was available, I would’ve chosen him. He’s been worth over 1 WAR for the past 4 years. I’m just surprised he got 2 years.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
he was playing really good in the playoffs last year
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 14, 2011 2:11 PM MST up reply actions
Ha Ha!
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
hey now
jon heyman says punto’s a winner
arenado: it's Rockie for future
In a hat?
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 14, 2011 3:56 PM MST up reply actions
I really want to laugh but I feel like the baseball gods are testing me
As soon as I start to giggle I’ll see…..
“Cuddyer to the Rockies for 3 years / $36 million”
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 14, 2011 1:55 PM MST up reply actions
bunt.
"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"
Luftfeuchtigkeitsregler über alles.
by The Lodo Magic Man on Dec 14, 2011 4:39 PM MST up reply actions
DOD is not dumb.
JimBowdenESPNxm JIM BOWDEN
Rockies continue pursuit of Cuddyer but not going to the 3-year 32m request from his agent
@CentralCaliRox
Jeeeez, that's what he's asking for?
Good thing he has no leverage. I would hope that if he shows the slightest sign of being stubborn about that number our FO would make Beltran Priority #1.
I am hoping the Reds(who have q's at 3b/LF RHB) value him just a little more than we do.
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
They don't have as much money as we do to spend on him.
They’re actually looking at him right now at less than the Twins offer in the hopes that the Rockies sign Beltran and Cuddyer has to cave.
This seems to make everyone happy
/Well except for Cuddyer
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 14, 2011 2:05 PM MST up reply actions
I said hope, I should have said praying
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Sounds like he's running for political office!
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
We were discussing price?
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Hearing Seattle is also in on Cuddyer. That makes Rockies and Mariners, maybe still Phillies…
Seattle makes a ton of sense. He’d be a huge upgrade for them.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
exactly
my biggest worry is that we miss out on both. i know we have bigger and more pressing needs, but cuddy is a major upgrade over smith (IMO).
is it summer yet?
Well, there's always Cody Ross.
. . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Meh
If we miss out on both, the quest becomes “find someone who can hit against Lefties” OR throw our money at the SP market
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 14, 2011 3:21 PM MST up reply actions
…which may dry up by the time Beltran signs
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
This is the big issue.
Beltran seems like the guy that’s going to drag this out. If so, waiting on him is probably not the best plan. I guess we have to hope he’ll decide to make a quicker decision.
he must be a frlend of Betancourt... :)
In all things, it is better to hope than despair.
by butterfly on Dec 14, 2011 3:32 PM MST up reply actions 2 recs
I don't think that's what Holly meant
when she said he’s “going to drag this out”…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 14, 2011 3:57 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I could see the Mariners offering more than we are willing to...
Which is whee Cuddyer is going to get his leverage from.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 14, 2011 2:05 PM MST up reply actions
I read an article last night that said they're still going after Fielder...
Not sure if Prince really wants to go there, though.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 14, 2011 2:07 PM MST up reply actions
Exactly.
I get the feeling that the odds of Cuddyer coming here are close to 50%, so at this point I’d rather not have other teams bidding for him. People here are hoping that some other team will outbid the Rockies, when it seems likely that the opposite is true. I’m worried that DOD might be getting tunnel vision.
I see it higher than 50%.
If it’s between Colorado and Seattle. Seattle will certainly bid more for Cuddyer than Colorado, if only because they NEED to (think of it as Colorado having to bid more for SP because of the Coors).
I have full faith in DOD, and I don’t expect cuddyer to get a 3-year/$30m+ deal.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 14, 2011 2:12 PM MST up reply actions
They have a much bigger resource pool to pull from
then again they employ Tom Tango so I am not sure how much that effects them
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
that place murders RH power though
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
I'm actually having a hard time gauging how real the Mariners interest is.
They and the Phillies are easy teams to make up rumors with.
Beltran to Seattle would make even more sense though
That is a team that NEEEEEEEDs offense and Beltran is a clear upgrade there. Plus, Seattle can DH him.
I want us to sign Beltran ...
Just so Keith Law can tell us why signing his #9 Free Agent was such a terrible move.
Because Wheeler and Blackmon are ready! and Smith wasn't the Black Hole that 3b/2b was!!!!
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Somehow I really think Cuddyer to the Rockies blows up for some reason
It’s not rational, but I just get that feeling…
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
Well, I see that the Row hasn't blown up today yet. That is always a good thing.
Are we on pace to match yesterday? I don’t think we will get that high but who knows.
Any news on Cuddyer or Beltran yet? Have we signed any of them yet?
68 today, 67 tomorrow is how many days remain until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
If we had, the RP would've blown up.
So no, we haven’t signed anyone yet.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 14, 2011 2:07 PM MST up reply actions
If we signed either, the Row would have blown up by now.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Other people are going after Cuddyer and Beltran.
Cardinals and Jays are in on Beltran, Mariners in on Cuddyer.
So we hopefully won’t shirk away from competition for at least one of them.
I saw a tweet that said St.Louis and Toronto are becoming the favorites for Beltran...
Not sure how much I believe it though.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 14, 2011 2:10 PM MST up reply actions
They have Bautista, Rasmus, Francisco, Davis, Snider, Thames.
I am not sure how much sense it really makes.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 14, 2011 2:16 PM MST up reply actions
same reason he makes sense here
Upgrade a position, trade the excess for pitching
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
But didn't they just sign Francisco..yesterday?
I’m not sure they’re looking for another OF.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 14, 2011 2:20 PM MST up reply actions
that is a talented outfield
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 14, 2011 2:20 PM MST up reply actions
So basically what your saying is our worst fears are coming true…Cody Ross
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 14, 2011 2:19 PM MST up reply actions
So does anyone els think we could've given Boston a better deal for Lowrie?
Sounds like another Uggla move was made. Once again, we missed out.
68 today, 67 tomorrow is how many days remain until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
It's Jed Lowrie.
There are better options…
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 14, 2011 2:22 PM MST up reply actions
like scutaro
arenado: it's Rockie for future
I bet he wont get traded now
68 today, 67 tomorrow is how many days remain until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
Scouting report on Melancon: 92-95mph fastball with movement, great power curve, delivery has deception…
Plus he’s a practiced closer, if not established at a near minimum salary. I really don’t even know if Brothers beats that.
He doesn't.
Melancon is great on my OOTP team.
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com
Leading the Astros into the Future. Go, Go Astros!
by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 14, 2011 2:35 PM MST up reply actions
What's the Rockies next highest value pitching trade chip?
Alex White? Chacin? I think Houston gave up quite a bit here. Closers really aren’t getting much back in trade at all this winter.
I will assert that Chacin has less trade value than Pomeranz.
He likely has more than White, but it’s probably closer than you think because he’s closer to arbitration than White and his season last year has likely put him in a questionable camp for opposing GM’s.
I like him very much going forward, I’m just saying that Houston gave up a better pitching trade chip than we currently have in the bullpen and so to find a Rockies offer that beats that, you have to go to the rotation. White or Chacin would be the next highest after Brothers.
This just seems to be a square peg in a round hole ...
We don’t have a Melancon-type releiver if your crieteria is contract status, age, stuff and experience closing. So how exactly is Chacin in the conversation? he is way more valuable than a Melancon … again, in my eyes.
The original question:
So does anyone els think we could’ve given Boston a better deal for Lowrie?
If you sincerely try to answer it from the stance of the Red Sox (a single player that helps their team this year) the first truly better offer the Rockies could have made is likely Chacin. It could be White, but his performance in Colorado and Cleveland in 2011 make that iffy. That’s how Chacin enters the conversation, because he’s the best answer to the original question.
Not to be contrarian ...
But who in their right mind would ever consider offering Chacin for Lowrie? That makes no sense, whether you were off on a tangential imaginary experiment or not.
Well, now we finally get to my point.
Roxman4ever and anybody who thinks that the Rockies could have beaten Houston’s offer are out of their right minds and make no sense.
Thank you.
Chacin woud be too high.
But Betancourt would be close to Melancon in my mind as far as establishment. But Melancon’s value would be much higher due to his age and contract. We don’t have any relievers like Melancon. We’d have to give up someone like White to equal that.
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com
Leading the Astros into the Future. Go, Go Astros!
by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 14, 2011 2:48 PM MST up reply actions
Brothers isn't enough. I pointed this out.
He’s not superior in skill, only slightly better in contract status and has less experience closing.
I understand that.
Petro said we didn’t have any relievers like Melancon, when Brothers does resemble Melancon. (contract status, age, future closer)
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 14, 2011 2:55 PM MST up reply actions
Melancon WAS a closer.
Brothers has only pitched 4 IP in the 9th. They are “similar” but not interchangeable in value. That was the point. We don’t have a reliever with the value of Melancon.
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com
Leading the Astros into the Future. Go, Go Astros!
by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 14, 2011 2:58 PM MST up reply actions
Brothers is comparable, though.
You have to look at the team Melancon was on.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 14, 2011 2:59 PM MST up reply actions
KlLaw says the Sox lose on this deal:
Yet even in a year when he threw 74 innings, a relatively high figure for a reliever under today’s highly specialized regimes, and walked only 20 guys unintentionally, Melancon was worth under a win above replacement per FanGraphs’ WAR. Lowrie alone will double that in 2012 just by staying healthy — he’s a fringy defensive shortstop who can stay at the position but will probably be slightly below average, excelling on the transfer but suffering from a relative lack of lateral range.
Keith Law hates everything
He’s always focusing on what one team or the other DIDN’T do, and there’s no such thing as a win-win. I wouldn’t be surprised if he thinks his own contract is overvalued, or that it should have included a third-year option for ESPN.
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
It's not trustworthy
but Wikipedia is saying that the Cards have offered a 2 year/$25 million deal.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 14, 2011 2:25 PM MST reply actions
To Beltran that is
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 14, 2011 2:25 PM MST up reply actions
I speak for the Rockies, and we offer 2 year/25 million dollars, with mutual option for 3
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 14, 2011 2:26 PM MST up reply actions
I feel like one of the cool kids now...
jaysonst Jayson Stark
@jfreemyer Hilarious. Thanks!
Jason Giambi for player-manager in 2012!
How the world will end in 2012: George of the Roses builds a Machine that Pommels everyone with La Violencia during Whiteouts.
well what did you say?
don’t leave your uncle T-Bag hanging.
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 14, 2011 2:38 PM MST up reply actions
This
jaysonst Jayson Stark
One thing I’m doing today is compiling my favorite Strange But True Feats of the Year. If you have a classic to pass along, tweet it at me!
jfreemyer Jordan Freemyer
@jaysonst With the bases loaded this year, Ty Wigginton made more outs than he had plate appearances.
Jason Giambi for player-manager in 2012!
How the world will end in 2012: George of the Roses builds a Machine that Pommels everyone with La Violencia during Whiteouts.
aww you stole that from RIRF!!
credit to RIRF.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 14, 2011 2:40 PM MST up reply actions
and that's definitely going into his article.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 14, 2011 2:40 PM MST up reply actions
Just stalked you on Twitter...
You look like Michael Phelps, has anyone told you that?
Actually, a couple people have
I also get Harry Potter
Jason Giambi for player-manager in 2012!
How the world will end in 2012: George of the Roses builds a Machine that Pommels everyone with La Violencia during Whiteouts.
How can someone look like Harry Potter and Michael Phelps
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
I don't know
Those are just the two famous people I’m most often told I look like
Jason Giambi for player-manager in 2012!
How the world will end in 2012: George of the Roses builds a Machine that Pommels everyone with La Violencia during Whiteouts.
Are we talking about Michael Phelps the swimmer?
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_E._Phelps
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com
Leading the Astros into the Future. Go, Go Astros!
by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 14, 2011 3:07 PM MST up reply actions
Just checking because I don't see the resemblance between
Daniel Radcliffe and Michael Phelps like at all.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Am I following you on Twitter?
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 14, 2011 2:54 PM MST up reply actions
Me? Don't think so
But I don’t tweet at all. I made an account only for the purposes of keeping up to date with the reporting of Renck, Rosenthal, etc
If you want to follow me I can give you my handle, I guess, but it wouldn’t add to your Twitter experience at all haha
Hipsters aren't on Twitter
It’s too mainstream
Jason Giambi for player-manager in 2012!
How the world will end in 2012: George of the Roses builds a Machine that Pommels everyone with La Violencia during Whiteouts.
So are the Black Keys.
Major Label sellouts.
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com
Leading the Astros into the Future. Go, Go Astros!
by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 14, 2011 3:14 PM MST up reply actions
What the hell?
jonmorosi Jon Morosi
With Mark Melancon trade, #RedSox have more to spend on rotation. They are still interested in Roy Oswalt, sources say.
I don’t understand.
@CentralCaliRox
yeah, that shouldn't be freeing up gobs of cash
weird
arenado: it's Rockie for future
and they just signed Punto, so it all comes out to a wash from a money standpoint.
They can’t have enough money to add an Oswalt.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 14, 2011 2:42 PM MST up reply actions
Welp ...
Apparently not:
Jon Paul Morosi of FOXSports.com reports that the Red Sox are expected to hang on to Marco Scutaro now that Jed Lowrie has been treaded.
The Sox had been shopping both infielders, but they’ll keep Scutaro as their starting shortstop now that Lowrie has landed in Houston. The 36-year-old will be backed up by Nick Punto and presumably will hand the shortstop job off to Jose Iglesias in 2013 after his contract expires.
dirt cheap bullpen arm
they probably had money budgeted for the bullpen, and some of that money can be adjusted elsewhere
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Most likely.
But if they want to remain under the luxury tax threshold, they can’t add an Oswalt. The only reason I am concerned about this is because of Beltran, obviously.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 14, 2011 2:57 PM MST up reply actions
I honestly doubt the BoSox will be able to make the improvements they need
and stay under the luxury tax. It’s just not possible.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
this was my thought
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 14, 2011 2:58 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
OT: Note to Butterfly--
I think it’s you that has requested to follow me on twitter a couple times. I’m not ignoring you, I promise. Apparently there’s a known issue right now where people who have their tweets protected are unable to approve or deny follow requests. So I keep going to the request list and there’s nothing there.
(Not that I ever tweet, anyway. Just didn’t want you to think I was purposely not approving you.)
ditto for me
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
no problem
l’ve had a vlrus or somethlng that erased all my followers and who l follow and l am just trylng to restore my lnfo. thanks:)
In all things, it is better to hope than despair.
Just realized the Darvish bidding ends in like 15 minutes
There’s no way that Renck’s mystery assignment has to do with this, right?
Most likely not.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 14, 2011 2:49 PM MST up reply actions
YEEEEEEEEEEEUUUUUUPPPP!!!!
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 14, 2011 2:50 PM MST up reply actions
(I was bidding on Yu Darvish all Storage Wars style)
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 14, 2011 2:50 PM MST up reply actions
I watched part of a marathon
and it’s an interesting concept and there can be some interesting things found, but after a while I realized I don’t like anyone on that show.
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 14, 2011 2:52 PM MST up reply actions
is he the weird old guy or the bigger fella with the huge tank top collection?
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 14, 2011 2:55 PM MST up reply actions
Weird old guy
I feel the same as you, after a few episodes it gets annoying, especially Dave doing his asshole routine all the time.
by ShadowPenguin on Dec 14, 2011 2:57 PM MST up reply actions
Barry's the weird old guy.
Darrell is the tank top guy.
Funny thing about Barry: I listen to the Scott Van Pelt radio show, and he’s mentioned a few times that Barry and Joe Maddon are totally the same.
you're not talking about Dave Barry are you?
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 14, 2011 3:16 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
/hatedavebarry
/HAAATTTEEE
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 14, 2011 3:17 PM MST up reply actions
I wouldn’t mind getting niche weird with Brandy. She’s not elegant, but she’s got something about her. Perhaps it’s just that all women look more attractive when they’re attached to a douchebag…
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
“niche weird”?
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 14, 2011 5:06 PM MST up reply actions
It’s a Workaholics reference…
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
I don’t know what that is either.
I’m so out of it.
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com
Leading the Astros into the Future. Go, Go Astros!
by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 14, 2011 5:14 PM MST up reply actions
Workaholics...
Slightly NSFW, language (nothing too crazy): http://www.comedycentral.com/videos/index.jhtml?videoId=388013&title=bodybuilding-competition
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
Renck's assignment revealed: Camp Tulo
I figured
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Dec 14, 2011 3:13 PM MST via mobile reply actions
I love that Camp Tulo is a thing
Jason Giambi for player-manager in 2012!
How the world will end in 2012: George of the Roses builds a Machine that Pommels everyone with La Violencia during Whiteouts.
by free7694 on Dec 14, 2011 3:14 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
This is awesome.
I thought 2011 sucked pretty bad. I have nothing to add to that.
by prettyinpurple on Dec 14, 2011 3:54 PM MST up reply actions
Troy Renck whereabouts:
Mystery assignment solved twitpic.com/7tc0j2 I am in Vegas spending time w Tulo, Giambi, Fowler, Arenado, Rutledge
I was totally going to guess this earlier today, but never actually posted it.
Man never even crossed my mind.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Tulo really doesn’t have positive HAR.
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com
Leading the Astros into the Future. Go, Go Astros!
by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 14, 2011 3:15 PM MST up reply actions
It's not really negative, either.
I’d say he’s about replacement level.
by holly96 on Dec 14, 2011 3:16 PM MST up reply actions 3 recs
HAHAHAHAHA fleccin dis
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Emailed you, BTW. Strongly suggest you follow up with that woman. I’d give you a good chance.
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com
Leading the Astros into the Future. Go, Go Astros!
by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 14, 2011 3:17 PM MST up reply actions
Yes, I saw that. Thanks!
I will definitely follow up. Need to revise the resume first (had it geared to the internal position earlier this week). Am hoping to contact her in the next day or two, max.
And again, thanks a ton!
And if you talk to her and mention me.
My last name is pronounced with a long e.
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com
Leading the Astros into the Future. Go, Go Astros!
by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 14, 2011 3:20 PM MST up reply actions
Pee-trow?
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 14, 2011 3:22 PM MST up reply actions
Long o. No w.
Trow?
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com
Leading the Astros into the Future. Go, Go Astros!
by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 14, 2011 3:22 PM MST up reply actions
Will do.
Would you suggest calling or e-mailing first?
(Would have gotten the pronunciation wrong, so I’m glad you clarified. Heh.)
I’d email with information about yourself suggesting a call. She’s a very nice person. Friendly and feeling.
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 14, 2011 3:24 PM MST up reply actions
good news, thnlkman... l was soooooo wrong..... :)
In all things, it is better to hope than despair.
Is this truth or is this?
Mystery assignment solved twitpic.com/7tc0j2 I am in Vegas spending time w Tulo, Giambi, Fowler, Arenado, Rutledge at the craps table.
68 today, 67 tomorrow is how many days remain until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
Further news on the Beltran Market
Buster Olney of ESPN.com reports that the Cardinals are a “serious entity” in the talks for free agent outfielder Carlos Beltran.
The World Series champs are looking for outfield help after Allen Craig’s knee surgery, and Beltran could fill in in right field while also offering help in center. He’s also simply the best hitter left on the market, and the team is looking to add offensive punch after losing Albert Pujols. The Rockies and Blue Jays are also expressing interest in the 34-year-old.
Yeah, if the Cards want him, they're going to get him.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 14, 2011 3:15 PM MST up reply actions
..unless they are hesitant to sign him for multiple years
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
2 years with an option?
Not terrible.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 14, 2011 3:17 PM MST up reply actions
then again, committing 20-25mil for the next two seasons on Furcal and Beltran is probably a terrible, terrible idea.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Furcal only got 7 million right?
Hm. Well, Craig is injured so…
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 14, 2011 3:20 PM MST up reply actions
Or the Nats (they've been very quiet)
Or the Marlins, or the Red Sox (I don’t believe their poverty whines at all), or the Rangers (if they want to upgrade from David Murphy or trade him for pitching).
I’m thinking it’s going to take $15-16m plus an obviously winning team to take him home. Which is insanity, but short term contracts on guys with 900 OPS last year are pretty attractive. Basically, anyone who can afford to take a huge injury gamble in the 8 digits, and who doesn’t have a completely full OF, is going to at least call.
by BostonTransplant on Dec 14, 2011 3:20 PM MST up reply actions
don't forget about Cespedes
I believe bidding on his services can begin in the next week or two.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
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You mean for us?
Or for all those other teams? Yeah, I guess everyone expects the Nats to sell out for him.
by BostonTransplant on Dec 14, 2011 3:28 PM MST up reply actions
Definitely not for us
but most of the other teams you named.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
The Marlins and Nationals are both going to make substantial plays here,
And in turn, whichever loses out will likely turn to Beltran.
I just dont understand how Beltran is the more obvious choice, switch hitter, better career numbers, better 2011 numbers… some please explain to me why cuddyer is so much higher than beltran on o’dowds list
Go Avs! Please?
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 14, 2011 3:16 PM MST up reply actions
No.
I’d say it’s because of character, honestly.
And then versatility.
Then perhaps money.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 14, 2011 3:17 PM MST up reply actions
Why character?
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 14, 2011 3:18 PM MST up reply actions
Because it's the Rockies.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 14, 2011 3:19 PM MST up reply actions
No.
I mean what evidence shows that Cuddyer has a stronger character than Beltran?
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 14, 2011 3:21 PM MST up reply actions
Cuddyer was a known leader on the Twins.
Beltran is more of the quiet type.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 14, 2011 3:22 PM MST up reply actions
He's intense as hell
Good for us. But I don’t think that’s the main reason we’re high on him.
by BostonTransplant on Dec 14, 2011 3:24 PM MST up reply actions
After watching the franchise on showtime
I thought Beltran was good in the clubhouse and good for the young players in the cage. he is a better hitter than Cuddyer but not as versatile in the field. for me the money and yrs for Cuddyer is to high price.
The price only matters if it excludes something else from happening
So what move do you imagine the signing of Cuddyer will exclude?
by BostonTransplant on Dec 14, 2011 3:47 PM MST up reply actions
And years
And maybe Cuddyer being able, or willing, to play other positions (like 1B) appeal to DOD.
I don't think so.
With Willingham getting a 3-year deal, I think it’s likely both Cuddyer and Beltran get it too
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 14, 2011 3:19 PM MST up reply actions
This is correct and should not be underestimated
Money is opportunity and we have a fixed budget. Outbid everyone for Beltran, and we’re dumpster diving again for pitchers and second basemen.
Plus there’s the injury risk, which is especially troublesome for a mid market. And we may not be sure he’ll even consider us, so why pin out hopes?
by BostonTransplant on Dec 14, 2011 3:22 PM MST up reply actions
Why would he not consider us.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 14, 2011 3:24 PM MST up reply actions
He's already made his fortune, well over $100 million
We’re a fourth place team from the freakin’ (as some people see it) wilderness, with a small market and not a lot of off-field marketing opportunity. I don’t know Carlos Beltran from Adam, but there stands a good chance he’d much rather sign his last multi-year deal in a big, warm city with all kinds of stuff going on he’s into, and which he’s familiar with.
This is the sort of thing that the FO would find out early in a conversation with a player, but for obvious reasons could never reveal publicly.
by BostonTransplant on Dec 14, 2011 3:27 PM MST up reply actions
then again
he’s a KC product and reportedly regretted signing in NYC.
I can see him signing with a mid market team in a great hitting atmosphere
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
I didn't know that
Did he grow up with Pujols? Come to think of it, we just saw what happened with Albert. I just think most guys, when money is no longer an issue or they have multiple ridiculous sums of money on the table, choose big famous cities like L.A., Miami, New York, Chicago over Denver.
by BostonTransplant on Dec 14, 2011 3:31 PM MST up reply actions
well, he's Puerto Rican
but was drafted and developed by KC.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Oh, that's different
I don’t think that matters at all, then. KC’s just the team that happened to draft him. Who cares …
by BostonTransplant on Dec 14, 2011 3:36 PM MST up reply actions
I'm having trouble sorting through a google search
because of the Giants trade for him, but I distinctly remember Beltran regretting signing in NYC. It wasn’t his scene.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Well, we're nothing if not the anti-NYC ...
You hated the BIg Apple, Carlos! Come on down!
by BostonTransplant on Dec 14, 2011 3:39 PM MST up reply actions
He's from Puetro Rico.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 14, 2011 3:35 PM MST up reply actions
Me too
None of us know Carlos Beltran, so it’s all speculation, of course. But from what we DO know about where his from and what he’s said (see Muzia’s comment above), there’s no reason to think that Denver wouldn’t be a fit for him.
Of course, so would someplace like St. Louis. I (unfortunately) agree with an earlier post: if the Cardinals really do want him, my guess is that that’s where he goes.
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
Well, I really hope you're right
Because Beltran’s a fantastic fit if he can stay healthy again. But worse than choosing Cuddyer over him are either of the following scenarios:
1. We sign Beltran for so much money we’re essentially done for the year other than dumping Smith for a PTBNL or reliever.
2. We lose out on both of them and sign a Gomes or something, which means Blackmon is screwed because we can’t carry five outfielders (thanks, Jason), and we have to trade him, too.
by BostonTransplant on Dec 14, 2011 3:35 PM MST up reply actions
The most I could imagine Beltran making is $15 million.
Though I see it more likely as between 12-13 million.That still gives the team financial flexibility to add a pitcher in a Seth Smith trade.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 14, 2011 3:38 PM MST up reply actions
Maybe maybe not
Depends on how long the Beltran contract is and where the pitcher we acquire is in the arbitration process. In other words, it may fit this year, but be a real problem in 2013 and 2014.
by BostonTransplant on Dec 14, 2011 3:41 PM MST up reply actions
Since when are we planning on acquiring a pitcher that's in the middle of arbitration?
I dunno about you, but I want a proven vet that is going to eat innings.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 14, 2011 3:42 PM MST up reply actions
The problem is getting a proven vet that wants to eat innings at Coors Field.
We don’t seem to have that much success in convincing them that all will be well should they come here.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Well, through trade you don't have that issue.
And we do generally seem to be able to convince guys in the Millwood milieu to sign. But that’s not quite the same thing.
True about trade.
But sometimes the trade pieces we give up might not be worth it. Millwood turned out okay, yeah.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
We're talking about trades, not FA signees.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 14, 2011 3:58 PM MST up reply actions
I was just throwing in FA as an option. Sorrrrry
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Me too. Who you got in mind?
Cuz I got nothing. John Danks is a FA next year so he’s out.
by BostonTransplant on Dec 14, 2011 3:45 PM MST up reply actions
Anyone want to go after Zambrano?
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 14, 2011 3:22 PM MST reply actions
well, only if he's in the best shape of his lif---
Oh.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
At the end of the day, he can chuck a Gatorade machine quite a distance
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
by SDcat09 on Dec 14, 2011 3:24 PM MST up reply actions 4 recs
t's really just a bucket with a spigot at the bottom...
Not a machine, exactly but yes, AFAIK,, Z holds the record for the longest toss.
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
Didn't he toss an actual one? Or was that just the one he destroyed with a bat.
Either way, he’d be a good fit.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
An actual one?
I think they are all just big coolers.
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
I thought I saw like a machine with different choices
much like you see in a restaurant
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
You are correct:
I love the guys getting up and nonchalantly moving down the bench as he does it
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 14, 2011 4:03 PM MST up reply actions
Okay thanks :)
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Yes I would
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 14, 2011 3:26 PM MST up reply actions
Rather go after Saunders, to be honest
But what I really want to do is empty the farm (minus Arenado and Pomeranz) in a trade. I still think we can put together a package for Gio Gonzales. Failing that, a Gavin Floyd or Jair Jurrjens, probably in that order of drooling-ness.
by BostonTransplant on Dec 14, 2011 3:44 PM MST up reply actions
I'm fine with the first part
violently against the second part.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Oh please holly.
You’d probably just push someone, with authority.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
What would I listen to/watch next summer?
Rockies baseball? Pssh.
If I’m going to Tulsa, I want to actually see someone interesting.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
You’re going to Tulsa?
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 14, 2011 3:54 PM MST up reply actions
Couldn't get to it this year
But yeah, it’s high on my list.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Why?
Bettis/Blackmon or Wheeler/Rutledge for Gio? Oh man, in a hearbeat.
by BostonTransplant on Dec 14, 2011 3:51 PM MST up reply actions
Ah, I thought you meant empty out the farm
Trading a couple of pieces is okay with me
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Seriously
At first I was like “whhaaaaaa” but then I realized it probably means a trade that involves 2-3 prospects.
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 14, 2011 3:53 PM MST up reply actions
Who takes that expression seriously?
OK, Mr. Beane, we’ll take Gio in exchange for … our entire minor league roster.
by BostonTransplant on Dec 14, 2011 3:53 PM MST up reply actions
by empty out
I thought you meant “trade for garza”
and that would take 4-5 pretty important pieces — that would make me violent.
The names you listed above would be okay with me, but wouldn’t get Gio.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
You don't think?
I thought the D’backs overpaid for Cahill but I think we’d be offering more in this scenario. Maybe that’s wrong. Eh, now that I think of it, it probably is. I’ll throw in EY, too.
by BostonTransplant on Dec 14, 2011 3:57 PM MST up reply actions
I think it would be very difficult to get Gio
without giving up Arenado.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Shields or Garza, yeah
But Gio has some real weaknesses (his BB rate) and not everyone is in love with him. Plus the A’s look to be after volume of very good prospects rather than small number of super-top-10 guys. I think Wheeler/Bettis/Rutledge (or similar) gets us a return call. Then we talk.
by BostonTransplant on Dec 14, 2011 4:00 PM MST up reply actions
what!?!?
When did you hear this.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 14, 2011 4:02 PM MST up reply actions
3 of our top 10 prospects would definitely get a call back
the question is: is that a fair price for us to pay right now? Does it make sense?
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
No way.
The A’s wanted Castellanos and Turner from Detroit.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 14, 2011 4:00 PM MST up reply actions
That's what someone says, yeah
But “sources” also say Gio will be traded this off season, and the A’s sure as heck aren’t getting those two guys.
Since I’m about to leave my computer, I’ll go ahead and say this …
I’d consider Arenado too.
/ducks
by BostonTransplant on Dec 14, 2011 4:02 PM MST up reply actions
I don't blame you.
But trading away Arenado at this stage would hurt like hell.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Empty the farm
usually implies at least a Ubaldo-type trade
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 14, 2011 3:55 PM MST up reply actions
Agreed, here.
I’m still on Maholm but I’m an Army of One.
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
I'm with you on Maholm too
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
I could do Maholm.
For a low price.
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com
Leading the Astros into the Future. Go, Go Astros!
by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 14, 2011 3:50 PM MST up reply actions
3rded
arenado: it's Rockie for future
No.
I’ve made my case against that
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 14, 2011 4:00 PM MST up reply actions
Oh crap, Phillies now in on Cuddyer (maybe)
Just going through today’s MLBTR threads, so might have been mentioned.
Welcome to Colorado, Mr. Ross …
by BostonTransplant on Dec 14, 2011 4:09 PM MST reply actions
I guess they just like all those old guys.
68 today, 67 tomorrow is how many days remain until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
Let them have him.
I honestly believe we are better off saving that money. Just because you have money, doesn’t mean you have to spend it.
They need to sign someone this offseason, especially after getting rid of so many big names. They can’t just sit on this money.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Is this based on a fan relations perspective, or something else?
I’ve been advocating saving the money for a while. Next year’s FA crop looks better, plus we’ll have less uncertainty and another year of development.
definitely fan perspective
They’ll still get a decent crowd because it’s Coors in the summer. But you can’t trade away Iannetta, Street, Ubaldo, and Stewart without bringing back a decent name. The Cheapforts meme is still strong in this community.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
But will the fan base be better long term
if we spend money just to spend money this year, and that restricts our flexibility and extends the mediocrity; or if we endure a painful season but can make a more significant addition next year?
But if the fanbase doesn't show up as well, that could hinder their ability
to do anything next year anyway.
Maybe, but how much will a year of development hurt ticket sales?
I don’t really know, but the stadium still had plenty of full seats this summer. If they market their product as the future of the Rockies, people would still show up. Also, I don’t know what portion of revenue comes from ticket sales, but I doubt that there would be a big enough drop that they wouldn’t be able to afford anybody next year either. I don’t think it’s “use it or lose it.”
Ticket sales
Generally follow performance of the team from the previous season.
2006 – 2,104,362
2007 – 2,376,250
2008 – 2,650,218
2009 – 2,665,080
2010 – 2,875,245
2011 – 2,909,777
So we saw bumps from 07 and 09 due to playoffs, but stayed relatively flat following non-contending seasons. I’d bet we could very well see a drop off this season with all the trades and no big name player being signed.
by ShadowPenguin on Dec 14, 2011 4:55 PM MST up reply actions
If we see a drop,
it will have nothing to do with whether or not we signed Beltran or because we traded Huston Street. It will be because we stunk last year and continued to stink this year.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 14, 2011 4:59 PM MST up reply actions
Besides.
IT’S THE YEAR OF THE FAN!
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 14, 2011 5:00 PM MST up reply actions
Oh wow. I get it now.
We are totally going to pick someone out of the stands to play 2nd base on opening day! It all makes sense!
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
I’m not sold on the player trade = attendance drop OR player signing = attendance gain theory. This only occurs for select players. As I’ve mentioned before, there were predictions of attendance doom after the Ubaldo trade. Those predictions never materialized.
It comes down to inning and losing.
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Leading the Astros into the Future. Go, Go Astros!
by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 14, 2011 5:05 PM MST up reply actions
Oh, I totally think winning and losing is by far the biggest factor.
But we did have reports of increased season ticket sales after the Tulo and Cargo deals last year. Obviously nobody we’re going to get this off season is going to be comparable to that. But some fans might be slightly more likely to stay interested, at least early in the season before winning or losing settles in, if the team signs somebody they’ve heard of.
Overall, the effect may be negligible, but I wouldn’t blame the FO for at least thinking about that aspect.
Have most casualy fans heard of Cuddyer?
Maybe, but I doubt he’d be enough to draw them to the park. Beltran? Maybe, but if they were willing to show up in August after Ubaldo was given the boot, why would trading away Street and Iannetta but not bringing back a big name affect them? I could see there being some sort of lag, but if so that will have less to do with who signs now than with what happened last year.
If I thought that bringing in someone like Cuddyer would push the team’s chances of contention to a reasonable value I would support it. But the additional 1 to 2 WAR (very optimistic) that Cuddyer would bring over Smith in right isn’t going to cover all the other flaws on the team. Meanwhile, next year we’ll have a better understanding of which prospects are likely to pan out, and which holes need to be filled externally; the $10M that Cuddyer will cost could be applied in a more useful manner at that time.
In general, studies show that Holly's correct, but you and PetroCW
do bring up an interesting point that’s probably important to acknowledge: Rockies fans are weird. The team held high attendance for far longer than it should have as an expansion franchise, given the team’s record over most of those seasons, and it doesn’t exactly follow the book with W/L attendance expectations or trade attendance expectations now. While I’m also expecting a drop, I’d be careful to be too confident in any prediction for the market.
my pocket theory on this...
That has no statistical data to back up mind you.
Attendance was continuously high despite the onfield product due to two factors: disposable income and a large immigrant population for the state. By immigrant I mean from other states. We all get to see how many Cubs fans or Dodger fans or Yankees fans arrive for those games and these are people who have lived in Colorado for many, many years before the Rockies were around.
So, the attendance was high because fans came to see their teams, not necessarily the Rockies. Some of those people have converted to being fans of the Rockies and some at least support both, until their team comes to town.
Florida didn’t have that. Florida already had a set population or retirees that do not tend to have high amounts of disposable income. With being a spring training state, tourists would rather visit in the spring for great weather then the humidi-hell that comes June-August. Colorado trumps that.
I remember reading something a while back looking at teams and their markets. The Rockies were the lone team in whichever quadrant represented lower payroll but actually a big market. There’s probably some good upward room…
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
PRMLB: The Brew Crew
I agree with this, but you also have to consider the PR (public relations, not Purple Row) aspect.
The Rockies traded away Iannetta and Street for players the casual fan has never heard of. They kind of need to do something.
Welcome to Colorado, Mr.RossBeltran …
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 14, 2011 4:12 PM MST up reply actions
don't toy with my emotions.
If you can’t tell from yesterday, they are fragile
Haha like Beltran's knees?
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 14, 2011 4:16 PM MST up reply actions 4 recs
you know this is getting a rec
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Beltran's knees are good to go.
If anybody can fix him it’s Dr. Steadman. Frankly I’m less worried about Beltran’s knees than I would be about Cuddyer’s production. I’m certain nobody else will share this same thought, but oh well.
Oh I know
It was a joke to cheer your fragile emotions up :-)
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 14, 2011 4:25 PM MST up reply actions
My fragile emotions might have been slightly
beer fueled yesterday, BTW.
Misery, like beauty, is in the eye of the beerholder.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Mine might be tonight,
So if I start claiming how Michael Cuddyer’s the risen reincarnation of Tim Tebow, you’ll understand why.
One year for Cody Ross
And I wouldn’t have a problem with that.
I know I am going to get destroyed for saying this but I’ll take Ross for one year over any of the other OF’s mentioned (Beltran, Cuddyer) for 3. Bring those contracts down to two and I am singing a different tune.
The Modesto hitting coach is graduating
will be following Arenado, Rutledge, and Matthes up to Tulsa.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Me like very much
And then this time next year he can graduate to Denver.
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
He just needs to be in Denver this year.
68 today, 67 tomorrow is how many days remain until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
Kinda wish he'd stay in A+
Seems like a good time in the learning curve for his expertise to be felt. We got Parker, Story and Herrerra coming up.
Not to say they'll all be in A+ this starting this year.
But at some point soon.
Dear Carlos Beltran,
please sign with the Rockies and feel free to stick up the Giants’ ass at every opportunity.
"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"
Luftfeuchtigkeitsregler über alles.
by The Lodo Magic Man on Dec 14, 2011 4:33 PM MST reply actions 3 recs
Co signed
68 today, 67 tomorrow is how many days remain until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
JFK's Quote of the Day:
“I’m excited (after hitting for the cycle), but I guess it hasn’t hit me yet. I’m only the second Mariner to do it and the other is Jay Buhner, who can’t run.” ~Alex Rodriguez
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
He had 30 home runs and over 100 RBIs last year. He’s got a rocket for an arm. You don’t know what the hell you’re doing!
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com
Leading the Astros into the Future. Go, Go Astros!
by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 14, 2011 5:24 PM MST up reply actions 2 recs
Is it safe to assume this wasn't the correct place for the response?
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUwSxqnRW-8
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com
Leading the Astros into the Future. Go, Go Astros!
by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 14, 2011 5:26 PM MST up reply actions
This is Buhner's Legacy.
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com
Leading the Astros into the Future. Go, Go Astros!
by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 14, 2011 5:27 PM MST up reply actions
OT: Chris Paul to the Clippers
About freakin’ time. Don’t screw this up again, Commissioner Stern…
Poor Chauncey is getting hosed in the whole. Nicest most screwed over player..:(
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
*whole thing.....
oh my….bad typo there.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Yeah, completely agree
I wish he would’ve gone unclaimed and then joined the Mavericks or something to make a couple final championship runs
I miss him in Denver
but honestly the Nugz are better without him.
BTW Cat, thank god PR doesn’t attract Trolls like that guy over on DenverStiffs.. Holy cow I’m usually pretty good at handling trolls but he made me insta rage
Supporting efforts to create a genetic splice of Jonathan Herrera and Troy Tulowitzki since 2011.
The NewNugs 2011 - Officially back on the Bandwagon
I <3 Johnson
by SurfaceThought on Dec 14, 2011 5:49 PM MST up reply actions
that dude was so lame
so, so lame.
I actually think Chauncey has to be very happy all things considered. Playing SG off Paul with Blake is a very soft spot for him to land.
Heh. I referred him to PR.:)
in all honesty because he mentioned baseball. Let’s see how long he lasts if he joins here.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Quick question
What is keeping a team like the rays from bidding like 90 million on the post and then not even talking to darvish about a contract? The 90 would be refunded and Darvish wouldn’t go to any other team?
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson
by Bloynoys on Dec 14, 2011 5:33 PM MST via mobile reply actions
Wait, really, would all be refunded?
That would be pretty brilliant, and might make NPB change their system
Supporting efforts to create a genetic splice of Jonathan Herrera and Troy Tulowitzki since 2011.
The NewNugs 2011 - Officially back on the Bandwagon
I <3 Johnson
by SurfaceThought on Dec 14, 2011 5:50 PM MST up reply actions
yeah the posting system is weird like that
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Eh I'm sure there would be some sort of penalty from the commish's office for doing that
Like fines/loss of draft picks…and they could conceivably just re-bid without the offending team or something.
The first issue I can see,
The two or three Rays fans that there are will go, WTF?? YOU HAVE $90 MILLION LYING AROUND TO BLUFF LIKE THIS???!!!
And then they’ll tell Evan Longoria and David Price and Matt Moore, and that’s where the real fun will start.
Peter “I’ll spit on you” Gammons said you could do it on MLBN
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 6:09 AM MST up reply actions
Fanpost for the Monfort and DOD call
I’m setting one up now. Call is supposed to start between 630 and 640. Join me there and I’ll try to post the details of the call.
PRMLB Owner of the STL Red Birds
In the fan forum
O’Dowd sounded lukewarm at best on Beltran, and offered little hope of any significant starting pitching help. He didn’t specifically talk about Prado or Cuddyer, but gave the impression that those are his primary targets. Others who listened may have a different opinion, but he seemed very honed in on those two and virtually nobody else.
Not that Prado and Cuddyer wouldn’t be nice additions if you get them, but I would like to see a wider net cast.
by Northsider1964 on Dec 14, 2011 8:34 PM MST up reply actions
How I'd spend the $17-$22 million
1A)Trade Tim Wheeler and Eric Young Jr to NY for Daniel Murphy
OR
1B) Sign Wilson Betemit for 1 yr, $1.75 million.
Murphy and Betamit have experience all over the infield and provide the Rockies flexibility as they can both play 3B, 2B or 1B. Plus, they all have a decent bat. I think of Murphy as being more of an every day starter type but Betemit is a free agent so we wouldn’t have to give anyone up for him.
I’d prefer Murphy which is why I have him as IA but I’d be okay with a Betemit signing too.
2)Sign Cody Ross to a 1 yr, $6.5 million contract.
I am going by the assumption that Cuddyer, Beltran will both take 3 years to sign and I think that’s over-extending for them. Give me a one year platoon guy instead.
3)Sign Micah Owings. Give him a 2 year deal, $3 million.
Granted, I didn’t follow him at all last year and Arizona simply cut him when he wouldn’t have been expensive for them to tender so maybe there’s something I am missing here about but he seems like a decent guy to bring in for the bullpen. And he could be a spot starter without having to make roster moves (i.e. promote someone from the minors, demote someone to the minors).
5A) Trade Seth Smith plus extra for Jeremy Guthrie.
We need a innings eating and Guthrie is one. He can be a good pitcher when he’s on and the Orioles seem to be ready to let him go. They have Adam Jones and Nick Markakis in the OF but there other OF guy is Nolan Reimold, a RH bat, who seems like a good fit to platoon with Smith.
Question would be, is this trade worth going into the season with Ross/Blackmon as our OF? The idea has been to trade Smith and bring in Cuddyer/Beltran, both who’d offer a significant upgrade over Ross. But I think I gamble that Ross can be a better fit at Coors than anticipated to make the gamble to bring in SP worth it.
and/or
5B) Sign Paul Maholm 1 year, $6.5 million
This is a huge risk, imo. Throughout his career Maholm is all up and down and is really been more down than up. His numbers overall were pretty decent last year but then you look at his splits and he, along with the rest of that rotation, did a complete faceplant in the 2nd half. Scary.
That said, we need pitching and not sure what else is out there.
I’d do the Niese deal but at this point I think if DOD would, it would have been closer to being consumated already. Or at least the rumor mill would be a little stronger.
I’d be super happy with a Kuroda signing but those rumors seemed to have cooled off, and what seemed like a long shot to begin with seems like even more of a long shot as each day goes by.
I don’t have any interest in Saunders.
like the idea of taking a chance on Volquez but I just don’t see where we match up trade wise with Cincy.
A Chris Volstad/Emilio Bonifacio package would be a great target but the one area that Florida has a need is at CF and I am not giving up Fowler.
So I’d bite bite the bullet and give Maholm an offer. Honestly, with guys like Chris Capuano getting multiple years I don’t know if Maholm goes for this offer and if any of the other scenarios become available I take those over Maholm in a heart beat.
6) See if Rich Harden would be willing to switch to the bullpen and give him a $1.5 million deal with incentives.
Obviously, this is just a pipe dream of a post. I think the main point here is about the approach I would take this off season, not the actual moves per se. I think the main theme I am going for is medium size moves that involve short term commitments. Moves that solidify the team, though none with the upside of a Carlos Beltran signing.
I like your idea of getting Murphy. Been wanting him here since lsat year.
66 today, 65 tomorrow is how many days remain until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
I still like the idea of Bonifacio
Versatile in the field, disruptive on the bases. Not a star by any means, but he’s like player you once hoped EY would become, but never will.
by Northsider1964 on Dec 14, 2011 8:41 PM MST up reply actions
matchupzzzzzzzz
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 6:10 AM MST up reply actions
It seems as though Seth Smith
got hammered in two straight FanForums. There is no way he is going to be here next year.
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com
Leading the Astros into the Future. Go, Go Astros!
What do you mean?
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
From the Cargo'es Yard rundown FanPost:
Cuddyer question…I love this caller
Why isn’t Seth Smith more adored by the org. Good power hitter.
DOD: Hoping Smith hits 20 homers. Trying to build a clubhouse. Trying to build a culture and want more men that want to compete. Need to more from JV to Varsity. Show up every night. Those that don’t won’t be Rockies. You can tell this struck a chord with DOD. His voice has angered…very noticable.
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com
Leading the Astros into the Future. Go, Go Astros!
by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 14, 2011 9:01 PM MST up reply actions
People should read this:
http://www.purplerow.com/2011/12/14/2637103/fanforum-with-dick-monfort-and-dod
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com
Leading the Astros into the Future. Go, Go Astros!
by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 14, 2011 9:05 PM MST up reply actions
This was a cute tweet:
LindsayGuentzel Lindsay Guentzel
Teams are in & out on Cuddyer like the Hokie Pokie…. Twins still have one hand in, giving it a little shake. #twins #cuddyer
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com
Leading the Astros into the Future. Go, Go Astros!
I was reading on Twinkie Town, and all the twins fans have no idea where she came from or what kind of legitimacy she carries
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 6:10 AM MST up reply actions
like I said the other day, she did break the story of Joe Mauer's engagement.
That’s legit. She has some sort of inside feed on Twins players, and she does have a j-school background, so don’t dismiss her that easily.
btw, the new Rockpile is posted.
I will let you all hammer away on me for that while I respond to A-mart above.
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