Thursday Rockpile: Does the stuff that doesn't matter, matter? Rockies engineering experiment for 2012
by Rox Girl on Dec 15, 2011 8:14 AM MST
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In rebuilding the Colorado Rockies for 2012, general manager Dan O'Dowd has left the team's more analytical fans in a bit of a tizzy by eschewing projections based on past on field results in favor of qualities that can't be quantified. Trading Chris Iannetta was likely a bad idea for 2012, by the numbers. So too, the "so long," to Huston Street. The Ian Stewart trade again, was awful, because the Rockies gave Stewart's tremendous potential away for a couple of reserves that have no position or place on their franchise. Now, on the near horizon looms another move just as devastating to SABRmetric oriented fans, the shipping out of useful cheap and still worth living at 29, Seth Smith, to replace him, if the Rockies have their way, with an expensive, painfully obvious poor right field defender by UZR, and ancient at 32 years old, Michael Cuddyer.
In a conference call with season ticket holders yesterday, O'Dowd admitted that a major motivation in all these moves was to change the "clubhouse culture," that he didn't want a team of "little boys," but of men willing to be held accountable and do what it took to win. The inference to the dispatched players was clear, the question remains whether there's any merit behind the philosophy or not. If you ask the Internet analysts, you'll get a fairly resounding "no" answer to this question. The theory holds that winning begets team chemistry and therefore team chemistry is an artificial construct.
The trouble with this is that the correct answer analytically should be "we don't know, because we can't measure it," and so analysts would be right to make their remarks on what they can observe and quantify, but wrong to dismiss out of hand what they can't as immaterial to personnel decisions. Honestly, I think the San Francisco run in 2010 may have been an example of clubhouse chemistry being attributed after the fact, whereas the Diamondbacks of last season have a stronger case of it actually mattering, given all the articles about the changed culture in Arizona with Kirk Gibson before the team actually started winning.
***
Over his last three seasons, all in his prime, Seth Smith has been worth 3.0 r-WAR, Cuddyer, 5.2. All three seasons for Cuddyer were after his 30th birthday. Aging curves for all players as a pool suggest that Cuddyer is the weaker choice going forward, but they are based on a lot of average to below players (like Seth Smith, frankly) dropping like rocks before they reach the point that Cuddyer already has. If you limit your selection to the pool of players that continue to produce at the plate after 30 (as Cuddyer has) the aging curve flattens until a player reaches about 35. People who see Smith as the safer alternative need to understand that while that may be true in the aggregate for all players, when you narrow the selection field to pools of similar players, the outlook doesn't look nearly as rosy for him.
My second point for Cuddyer: at corner positions, defense should always be a secondary consideration, particularly given the fickleness of the measures and the variability players have year to year. Imagine if the Red Sox had signed Lance Berkman last season instead of Carl Crawford, or alternatively, if the Cardinals had gone after the Tampa Bay defensive whiz instead of the plodding slugger they signed. Cuddyer has had two seasons (2009, 2011) at the plate in the last three years as good as Smith's best season (2009, all with a wRC+ 124) his worst season in that span (wRC+ 104 in 2010), was better than Smith's worst (98, also in 2010.) Smith's best season of his career, 2009, is now far enough in the past that it seems unlikely he'll be able to repeat it. If the Rockies have an opportunity to trade him right now, they should. The question of whether they should replace him with Cuddyer or another player is a bit more debatable. I think Cuddyer's a decent bet to be productive going forward, but so too, may have been Josh Willingham, who will be signing with the Twins for less than what Cuddyer will likely wind up with today.
The Rockies are pretty clear that they like Cuddyer over other outfielders on the market because he can also play first base, as was mentioned by O'Dowd yesterday in the conference call. I saw the Moneyball movie, though, and Brad Pitt said that you can eventually teach anybody to handle it, so who knows.
At any rate, I don't think the Rockies are getting screwed here by going after Cuddyer, and if I'm reading about what O'Dowd wasn't saying about a player neither he nor an opposing general manager are talking about, there might be an even more valid reason to suspect that getting an outfielder to replace Seth Smith makes Smith more valuable to the Rockies as a trade piece than as a player to keep. Even without adding chemistry, Cuddyer plus Tyler Colvin, plus the player nobody can mention, is far better for the Rockies chances over the next two seasons than Smith plus Andruw Jones plus DJ LeMahieu.
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Great post, RoxGirl
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
Agreed, excellent analysis
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My blerg
by EmersonCR on Dec 15, 2011 1:11 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Look how wrong you are.
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Dude, he can't hit lefties well.
Even if we threw him out there for 150PA v LHP or whatever split he’d get, he might outperform a .300 OPS, but that doesn’t mean he’d outperform a platoon partner.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 15, 2011 9:51 AM MST up reply actions
Unfortuanately you can't prove that..
because Seth doesn’t have a large enough sample against lefties in the majors.
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I can't prove that I can't beat shoot a basketball, either, because that's also a small sample,
but I have a pretty good idea from the small sample I do have that the larger sample won’t be pretty. The same is true with Smith and LHP’s.
How big was his platoon split in the minors?
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
I wish that was a good way to tell, and a fairly accurate way to predict splits against MLB LHP's,
but it’s not. Using league wide MLB LH splits would have a stronger correlation and be a better argument for you to take. I really am surprised at how many people believe that Smith will be fine going forward vs. LHP’s.
Do you have the numbers?
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
This isn't a cop-out, I'm pretty sure it was looked at a couple of years ago on Tango's The Book Blog
Using data from Minor League Splits. It’s going to take me a little while to find it, but intuitively, it ought to make sense to you that if you took the more recent, relevant MLB sample for the player, and regressed it according to the MLB average platoon as outlined by Tango starting around page 159 of The Book (look it up on Google Books) you will have a clearer picture of his ability than if you took minor league numbers from five seasons ago or more.
Well it would have to bee the average LHH against LH relievers
I am guessing those numbers aren’t good
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
You are correct.
And what numbers we do have from Smith are on the whole, worse than average, which makes it even worse.
Right but even really good LHH suffer against LH relievers correct?
is their a way to tease just LH hitters facing LH relievers out of the Data?
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Seth hit .295 against lefties counting College and the Minors..
I wrote an article about it last year. I compiled his college and minor league splits against lefties into this spreadsheet.
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it also isn't believing that he will be fine
it is believing that he could be but that the evidence seems pretty small sample wise to say definatively either way. Lance Berkman had a .218/.347/.372 against LHP his rookie year, they didn’t slap a platoon on him they gave him 140 PA against LHP his second year where he had a .308/.400/.467 including a .375/.483/.633 against LH starters which means he was still mighty weak against LH relievers the same pitchers that set has not been good against.
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Saying "you can't prove it" doesn't mean that Smith can hit lefties well.
Please don’t play this “Small Sample” card as if I don’t know what it means.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 15, 2011 10:04 AM MST up reply actions
I’ve gone through the effort to prove he can hit lefties..what effort have you gone through to prove he can’t?
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High school and college splits don't really count
If you can’t hit both sides in high school or college, you’re probably a questionable prospect anyhow.
As for my proof:
.202/.269/.319 career line vs LHP.
Yes, that counts starters and relievers. He needs to be able to hit both of them, just like we’d expect a righty to hit a RHP, regardless of role.
I’m stoked he can hit minor league lefties. We need him to hit major league lefties. He hasn’t done it.
If you’re digging this deep to try and prove Smith can hit lefties, you’re probably fighting for a losing cause.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 15, 2011 8:40 PM MST up reply actions
Do we expect Cuddyer to decide today?
I get the feeling he will sign today
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
Agree with everything in the article
O’Dowd’s been bragging about the Rockies fabulous clubhouse rapport for years, and now it’s suddenly the reason they are a sub-.500 team?
I could actually live with all of the offseason moves so far, IF THEY HAD ACTUALLY BROUGHT THE ROCKIES ANY PROVEN STARTING PITCHING!!!! But we’ve jettisoned a starting catcher, a closer, a highly drafted 3B with power and we’re about to ship out an OF with decent power – and still have a pitching rotation that will likely burn up the bullpen by early July. How is this possible?
So much for the adage about the NL West being won with starting pitching. Apparently it’s now all about clubhouse culture and intensity. What cliche will O’Dowd cling to next offseason, assuming he’s still around?
yeah but we have like 10 starting pitchers
On with the Arms Race
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 8:34 AM MST up reply actions
Great Post
I will be as disapointed as anyone else if we don’t get Beltran, but I really think this “Cuddyer doesn’t make us better” meme that has started is a bit silly. In 2010 we were a few games out halfway through the final month of the season. We did that with two starters that were above average hitter(three subs were too). I love Seth Smith and I would bet that most GM’s value him more than his hometown fans, but the one thing this team has plenty of is LH OF with Cargo, Smith, Colvin, Blackmon, and Wheeler all ready for a shot at 2 positions aside from the offlimits Cargo, Smith is the only one likely to be attractive enough to add players that can help us in the coming season.
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
also Cuddy will make about what we paid Jose Lopez and Wiggington last year
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
I would actually say that the Rockies value him more than most GM’s do, because of what Jim Tracy has platooned him into
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 8:38 AM MST up reply actions
ex: Nobody is really calling on him, we are shopping him around in every deal possible and he is still here
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 8:39 AM MST up reply actions
Smith is absolutely a quality trade target.
He’s the strong part of a potentially great platoon.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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yes, you are a Rockies fan
Go over to the Braves Blog and ask them what they think of Seth Smith
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 8:42 AM MST up reply actions
I’d rather not do that, because they have almost no concept of their own farm’s worth.
(aside from cthabeerman, who is fairly reasonable)
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It's a good thing their GM doesn't share their position.
Yesterday’s conference call had me reassess how possible this move would be.
% Chance in your opinion?
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 8:57 AM MST up reply actions
80% to 90% if the Rockies sign Cuddyer.
Near zero if they don’t. Remember how the Iannetta trade didn’t happen until an agreement with Hernandez? I got the sense from the conference call that this is the same deal, and we haven’t had any other substantiated rumors involving Smith since that one.
Just prado you think, or Jair too?
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 9:00 AM MST up reply actions
It may be Scutaro
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 15, 2011 9:01 AM MST up reply actions
No, it might be Volquez.
That’s the only other option that has really not had a closure statement from Renck or other media sources.
Volquez?
just doesn’t seem like DOD type of player? but if your desperate for SP
We may be pulling away from "DOD type players"
as the conference call (and today’s Rockpile) suggests
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Didn't
the conference call say DOD wanted men and Varsity type players in the club house? I know it also mentioned a need for #1 sp. I hope this happens, but I don’t see it
Dang…this whole time DOD thought we were suppose tohave JV typep layers
#LightBulbON
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 9:15 AM MST up reply actions
We know the Rockies have interest in him.
That they had a deal fall through around Huston Street, but they remained interested even after that and Renck said a Volquez trade could be revisited. My guess with that is that Jocketty wants to secure additional pitching first and then he’d move Volquez. However, the thought has occurred to me that if Alonso (the Reds current projected LF) would be used in their pitching trade, Smith would be a somewhat ideal replacement.
A Smith for Volquez+Fraizer/Francisco
would help both teams
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
The question is, will they budge from the Braves' demands
or cave in and surrender Blackmon/Wheeler as well as Smith
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I think there's almost certainly already an agreeable Smith trade to O'Dowd on the table.
I have no idea who or what else is involved, and I think there’s up to a 20% chance that it’s actually with the Reds and not the Braves.
Francisco?
or a bigger name
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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Volquez straight up for Smith is a bad deal for us IMO
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
I don't know if it would be straight up.
I actually don’t think that’s so bad, having watched both players with some frequency over the last couple of years. Volquez still has high quality stuff.
So did Felipe Paulino
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
yes but we got Paulino for a guy also
coming off a down Year neither player projected to have a spot on either roster. Volquez is in that situation Smith is not.
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Okay, I see what you're saying.
Yes, Volquez’s trade value could, perhaps should be lower than Smith’s due to their respective playing time and performances last season.
Exactly the Paulino trade was a
good defensive ss coming off a 61 wRC+ season, Paulino was a talented player who was walking 4.5/9 Volquez is similar and shouldn’t require giving up a cheap guy who had 533 PA of 112 wRC+ baseball
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Yep,
and Felipe Paulino was a 2.5 fWAR pitcher last year, with a 3.73 xFIP.
Remember, he was pretty darn good last year (just not with us)
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
I liked the Paulino trade, I would like a Volquez trade
just not straight up for Smith, they have a surplus of young 3B I doubt they give up Fransisco but I would want Frazier at least in that trade
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
In which month was he "pretty damn good"?
Do you mean in August when he had an ERA of 4.55 in 5 starts? Or in September when he had an ERA of 5.08 in another 5 starts? Paulino had one good month in June when his BB/SO ratio was at it’s best.
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His June and July were both excellent
his september was well above average peripheral wise
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Well, all players have ups and downs. And you can slice and dice stats lots of different ways,
but the point is: Paulino was a positive player in 2011. It didn’t do the Rockies any good, because none of his positive moments came while he was here, but that doesn’t change the fact that Paulino had a good year last year, better than just about every pitcher on our staff did.
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
Out of the 6 months in the MLB season..
Paulino had 4 bad months, 1 good month and 1 decent month. His peripherals were similar in the year. He just stopped walking people for the middle two months. The rest of the year he was below replacement level.
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Again,
Paulino had a good year in 2011. Consistency is great – I’m not minimizing that – but in the end, the only win totals that matter are the ones… well, in the end. Baseball teams are awarded no prizes for “best record in July games.” The fact that Paulino had bad months is not more relevent than the fact that he had a good year.
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
by Gasstation1 on Dec 15, 2011 10:07 AM MST up reply actions
Also, I believe during his better months he was a starting pitcher
and during his worse, a relief pitcher. So, more months bad, but more innings good.
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My blerg
I got the impression Prado is actually more available that I initially thought..
Is that what you think as well?
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 15, 2011 9:03 AM MST via iPhone app up reply actions
they have a LH RF, 1B, CF and need a RH bat
by OPS+ Smith would have been the fourth best hitter on their team last year. In 2009 he would have been their best hitter. The fans of other teams aren’t the GMs and there is a reason Frank Wren has asked for Smith+ something else in every rumor.
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
That is a bit misleading considering he was platooned (batting against RHP) and didn’t play everyday
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 8:56 AM MST up reply actions
Two of their top four hitters were catchers
in 2009 Smith had a 120 wRC+ against LHP and a 124 wRC+ against RHP. In 2010 and 2011 he saw LHP once or twice a week in the form of a LOOGY nobody does well in that situation
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
I was just saying that…its misleading when you use average stats and say he woulda been a teams 4th best hitter, considering he hadn’t played everyday that could have gone down
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 9:06 AM MST up reply actions
In 2009 he only would have trailed Matt Diaz
if I am counting Diaz I am sure as hell counting Smith
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
nevermind
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 9:13 AM MST up reply actions
You are syaing that Smith would have been worse if he played everyday
A. we don’t know that to be fact B. Smith had 533 PA last year that would have been 5th on the Braves it isn’t like he is getting 1-2 starts a week.
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
not Tim Wheeler, a guy who lit up AA?
Or Charlie Blackmon??
You’re undervaluing those prospects.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 15, 2011 8:38 AM MST via iPhone app up reply actions
they have value but a guy coming off an .830 OPS year in MLB is more valuable to a
contending team than two guys who lit up Tulsa.
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
What if we did a 6 man rotation?
With Chatwood and White sharing the 5 spot. On the 5th day, White gets first four innings, Chatwood gets next 4 innings, with Raffy in for the win?
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
outside the box, I know, not accepted in the baseball world
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 8:42 AM MST up reply actions
Oh it would work fine
If you got consistent length and quality from the other four guys. Get length and quality from your 1 through 4, you can use all sorts of parlor tricks on the 5th day. The Rockies’ problem is the other four days, when they’re already leaning heavily on the pen.
by Northsider1964 on Dec 15, 2011 8:46 AM MST up reply actions
...I've been typecast.
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Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
You did it yourself, with all your frank talk.
by Rox Girl on Dec 15, 2011 9:19 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I feel like the extra bun
in the package…
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Frankly, I was just hot dogging.
I relish the conversations I get to participate in with you.
Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
depends on the length and the quality
The off-season sucks.
That is all.
by DAWNMARIE01 on Dec 15, 2011 10:07 AM MST up reply actions
smart ass
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What's unique about giving White only the first four innings?
That’s what we end up doing about 4 nights a week, after the starter has nibbled his way to 100 pitches.
Over 162 games, there’s just no way to dance around a lack of starting pitcher innings. Never has been, never will be.
by Northsider1964 on Dec 15, 2011 8:43 AM MST up reply actions
yeah……I get what your saying we are gonna need a few long men this year
Helton
Giambi
Rosario
Hernandez
Tulo
Cargo
Fowler
OF
Colvin
3B
2B
UTIL
and
13 pitchers (2 5 men rotations with 7 8 9 innning guys)
For the Chamipionship
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 8:49 AM MST up reply actions
close but not quite...
The will be two utility, one will be Pacheco and the other for middle infield. It’s going to be 12 pitchers, always is
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 15, 2011 9:00 AM MST via iPhone app up reply actions
yeah I know, just an off the cuff, outside the box lineup/joke
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 9:03 AM MST up reply actions
White will be better
The team has depth. And they’re looking to add a veteran starter. I think you should lay off Dan a bit for this, and just give him some time.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 15, 2011 8:58 AM MST via iPhone app up reply actions
Last night he sure didn't sound like he was looking to add a veteran starter
It’s not like I’ve been posting daily rants about how O’Dowd’s not getting anything done in the offseason, because I do believe in letting things play out. But when he stands there and acts like Tyler Chatwood and Kevin Slowey are the solution to last season’s biggest weakness, my patience wears pretty thin.
Maybe it’s better to just bitch incessantly about how Jim Tracy is mismanaging a 4th place roster so badly that it’s stuck in 4th place.
by Northsider1964 on Dec 15, 2011 9:56 AM MST up reply actions
Dude
we’d surely have 3 straight WS titles if Anyone But Jim Tracy were managing. Come on now.
But seriously, you cannot be more right that we need pitching for 2012. I dig the future depth, we’ve got a nice collection of upside arms. But we need pitching for 2012. I remain unconvinced that DOD is too concerned about 2012.
Who do you like for pitchers that are out there right now?
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 15, 2011 10:39 AM MST up reply actions
Depends on what you mean by 'out there'
Kuroda as an innings eater and Saunders is better than most of the guys we have. Maybe you’ll get outbid for both, but for god’s sake give them a look.
As far as trade candidates go – I don’t love Nolasco, but he takes the ball and gives you innings – is that dead? Is Oakland done moving pitchers? It’s slim pickings, but O’Dowd sure gave a lot of lip service to the need for proven starting pitching – only to settle on Chatwood, Slowey and Schmidt.
by Northsider1964 on Dec 15, 2011 11:01 AM MST up reply actions
They are or have given both Kuroda and Saunders looks.
And I don’t at all get the impression DOD thinks he’s done on the SP front.
Renck
Tulowitzki on board Rockies’ pursuit of Michael Cuddyer- http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_19550911
It’s a done deal
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
Colorado is believed to have the biggest offer to Cuddyer, approaching $30 million over three years.
Ugh
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 15, 2011 8:47 AM MST up reply actions
And just to be clear
I personally am upset about the amount of money being offered here (especially after Willingham – Who I would prefer by a little, went for 3/21), not about going after who Cuddyer who I beleieve would help this team.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 15, 2011 8:53 AM MST up reply actions
as long as it’s not backloaded, I’ll deal with the overpay.
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ahh shit lets give him 40 million he is the missing piece
-Dan O’Dowd, December 15, 2011
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by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 8:53 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Lol'd
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by SurfaceThought on Dec 15, 2011 9:04 AM MST up reply actions
Look at the bright side? Approaching is still under?
It’s definitely an overpay. I actually like that the Rockies FO is taking risks. I disagree with a few of them (the Street trade and the trust in Rosario and Pacheco) but while I’m uncomfortable with this one, I do think Cuddyer’s an okay player to take a risk on.
As I said yesterday
the extra millions might be “risky” in some vague sense, but if DOD sees this as a major play for competitiveness, and moreso if it also allows Prado to fall into place (as suggested above), the extra change is of no moment. It may or may not be a smart move, time will tell, but at least its showing some conviction.
I'm coming around to your thinking on this,
It’s trusting the scouts and staff, and not getting caught up in the reasons to doubt. If they make the wrong calls on large “trust us” moves like this, they won’t be able to avoid accountability in the way they reasonably could with moves like Jose Lopez last season. “We were just taking a cheap flier, how were we supposed to know it would turn out so poor?” And ultimately, it will show whether O’Dowd’s personnel decisions are worthy of him keeping his job.
pretty much exactly my view
its time for DOD to show his vision here. I’m willing to roll with it and not cry (too much) with the understanding that he’s got a short window to prove that it works. What I’m not interested in is more build-for-the-future moves covered by the Jose Lopez type moves. If we are rebuilding, do it, and get serious about it. If we are competing, do it, and get serious about it. I just want to see something real that I can get behind, either way.
No, RG....signing Beltran is taking risks...
DOD, it could be argued, is taking the safe route by choosing Cuddyer over Beltran due to the latter’s injury risk. I’d be more impressed with the FO if they had the kahunas to go for the greater player, injury risk and all. The upside with Beltran is so much better than Cuddyer that he merits a premium salary even with the risks that come along with him.
I see Cuddyer as an OF version of Todd Zeile. Thoroughly average at the plate, and nothing special in the field. He will likely deliver what you expected, but it won’t significantly enhance our playoff chances. Beltran, on the other hand, could be a box office hit as well as a difference maker for our W/L record. There’s a reason DOD doesn’t win divisions, and it’s largely due to faulty talent judgment as well as paying any attention to the so-called character and clubhouse issues. He has to be smarter withe the former, and more dispassionate with the latter.
by GoRoxGo on Dec 15, 2011 11:15 AM MST up reply actions 2 recs
Renck is spot on with his comment that DOD downplayed his interest in Beltran..
By saying just a few words, pertaining to Beltran’s bad health. Dan didn’t seem greatly interested in Beltran and may have been sending signs that we shouldn’t get our hopes up.
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by CentralCaliRox on Dec 15, 2011 8:57 AM MST via iPhone app up reply actions
more than likely just posturing to get Cuddyer to sign
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by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 8:58 AM MST up reply actions
How much can you really take from that Q&A
It’s not like he is going to come right out and tell you exactly what is happening.
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by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 9:02 AM MST up reply actions
No, p=ma :P
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by I_Am_Marshall on Dec 15, 2011 9:11 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
Fail = double play / down two?
The Ty Wiggington equation?
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by J_Stone on Dec 15, 2011 11:45 AM MST up reply actions 4 recs
rec
arenado: it's Rockie for future
May the m*a be with you!
And don’t forget units.
Although it’s probably over….
/shouldn’t wake up so late
I thought 2011 sucked pretty bad. I have nothing to add to that.
by prettyinpurple on Dec 15, 2011 12:02 PM MST up reply actions
I resemble that remark
about waking up late
(my 1st quarter of my PhD program just ended)
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My blerg
Nice.
I thought 2011 sucked pretty bad. I have nothing to add to that.
by prettyinpurple on Dec 15, 2011 1:26 PM MST up reply actions
I've been looking at the Smith/Gomes position.
If you used the last three years as a basis, here are some comparative projections:
In an optimal situation in which Smith and Gomes maintain their splits, and only bat against their respective strengths (Smith vs. RHP/Gomes vs. LHP), a Smith/Gomes OPS might project at .877. Obviously, this perfect situation would never happen. It also doesn’t account for decreased PAs for Gomes.
Cuddyer, if he simply maintains his three-year average OPS, would be at .807. This obviously doesn’t account for aging nor any Coors Field bump.
If we kept an optimized Smith, but platooned him with a replacement player who had an OPS of .700, we’d end up with an OPS of .769.
So:
Smith/Gomes: .877
Cuddyer: .807
Smith/Replacement Player: .769
Optimization is not going to happen. But, I think it is fair to say that Smith/Gomes would produce equal to Cuddyer at the plate. This basically does leave us playing $10 million per year for intangibles such as positional versatility, leadership, and the ability to trade Seth Smith at a higher value point.
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The other interesting piece in this
is that an optimized Smith/Replacement player @ .700 OPS is not much better than piecing together a replacement player situation @ .750 OPS without Smith.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 15, 2011 9:02 AM MST up reply actions
Cuddyer is a big boy
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by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 9:07 AM MST up reply actions
When you say platooned with a .700 OPS replacement player
Do you mean .700 vs LHP?
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 15, 2011 9:28 AM MST up reply actions
Yes.
That’s the optimization factor.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 15, 2011 9:32 AM MST up reply actions
So, basically leave Seth as the starter?
Career .711 OPS vs LH Starters
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Possibly.
But he’s been MUCH worse than that over the last two years:
2011: .649
2010: .370
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 15, 2011 9:37 AM MST up reply actions
True but since he only sees lefty specialists we don't know what he would do
if he was allowed to face all LHP
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
No.
Those are the numbers against LH starters.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 15, 2011 9:40 AM MST up reply actions
His numbers against LHP are:
2009: .868
2010: .393
2011: .576
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 15, 2011 9:41 AM MST up reply actions
ahh sorry how big was the sample size?
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
SSS
11 starts in 2011
3 starts in 2010
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8 starts in 2009..
with an OPS of 1.090 against LH starters. Let’s cherry pick that one!!
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Well that whole sample is 21 Starts 11 less than we gave Jose
Lopez in 2011
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
We were also paying Seth $3 million less than Jose this year.
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Exactly
It’s also just exploring another possible case.
Although I think Cole Garner could manage like a .725 OPS v LHP.
You know, if he was still around.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 15, 2011 9:41 AM MST up reply actions
Spilly was a .605 against lefties last year..
anything would have been better.
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Yep, because managers don't start lefties against lefties.
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There isn't a good way of doing this.
I think you have to look at the numbers and get a sense of how things might work out. My overall sense is that:
Platooning Smith with a good bat vs. LHP will give you about .800 OPS.
Platooning Smith with a random dude vs. LHP will still give you about .750 OPS because Smith is getting most of the ABs and is pretty good.
Unfortunately, it’s hard to know what he would do if you just rolled Smith out there everyday. By his numbers, he could alone still get an .800 OPS @ 650 PAs which would put him equal to Cuddyer and Smith Gomes platoon. That’s another scenario.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 15, 2011 9:51 AM MST up reply actions
I don't disagree with your analysis
Although I don’t know what you mean by platooning with a good platoon guy gets you .800 OPS. Smith is a .880 OPS guy vs RHP and Gomes (just as an example) is .870 v LHP.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 15, 2011 9:55 AM MST up reply actions
Yes.
The optimized number using the last three years for Smith/Gomes is .877.
I just don’t think that that optimized number is feasible. Thus, my belief is that a number around .800 OPS seems realistic. I’d probably be better saying a number between .800 and .820 OPS since I think they would certainly exceed .800.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 15, 2011 10:01 AM MST up reply actions
Smith put up an .830 OPS over 533 PA last year
how many PA are you projecting his platoon partner to get?
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
189
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 15, 2011 10:06 AM MST up reply actions
so smith gets like 500 PA?
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Smith PAs don’t drop much, they mostly get optimized.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 15, 2011 10:06 AM MST up reply actions
that's a pretty huge dropoff based on a disbelief in feasibility
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 15, 2011 10:07 AM MST up reply actions
Part of the drop-off is the fact that optimization is nearly impossible. Smith is never going to only hit against RHP and Gomes against LHP. There is some drop-off there.
The rest is disbelief. You’re mileage may certainly vary on that account.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 15, 2011 10:13 AM MST up reply actions
Maybe never "only" hit
But if we’re to believe the one year sample that says Smith sucks defensively – whether by UZR or the eye test, he’s been at least competent in years past – then swapping him out when the other team brings out Ron Mahay to face him with his platoon partner without seeing much of a defensive change. And Vice Versa.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 15, 2011 10:25 AM MST up reply actions
Yes.
But then the RH closer comes in to face Gomes. There are a limited number of moves you can make.
As I wrote, the drop-off is partly based on my own belief that turning baseball players into interchangeable parts doesn’t work very well. I openly admit that. Even with this belief, I agree that Smith/Gomes could produce the same at the plate as Cuddyer.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 15, 2011 10:31 AM MST up reply actions
Most of this was based on my desire to find a way to assess whether the Smith/Gomes platoon made sense at all. I’m still interested in seeing a case in which a situation like this worked out well for a team.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 15, 2011 10:36 AM MST up reply actions
It does make some sense if you don't factor the opportunity cost of not trading Smith right now.
But my point is that’s a significant factor to ignore.
Yes.
I mentioned that above somewhere. The $10 million per year is really about intangibles, positional versatility, and Smith as a trade piece.
Is the $10 million per year worth that? Positional versatility and intangibles are not worth it alone. It really depends on what we can get for Smith. But Prado is definitely worth it.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 15, 2011 11:00 AM MST up reply actions
What if we platooned Cuddyer with Smith?
Cuddyer plays 3b against RHP (looking at UZR/150 it looks like he is better defensively at 3B than RF anyways) and in RF when we face LHP.
I don’t think its as optimized as a Smith/Gomes platoon but it would also help fill our hole at 3b while Arenado gets more seasoning in the minors.
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by purplesocks on Dec 15, 2011 12:15 PM MST up reply actions
Was reading the ITR article on Josh Rutledge today..
and it inspired me to go back and watch the videos Muzia and I have uploaded about him. I’m impressed with how short and compact his swing is. This kid has the exact opposite mechanics of Ian Stewart, with very few moving parts.
Watch Muzia’s video from here. Or mine from here.
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Roesenthal
#Padres’ Latos: Available or not? http://mlbbuzz.yardbarker.com/blog/mlbbuzz/padres_latos_available_or_not/8750161?new_post=true #MLB
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Latos? what?
I don’t see that happening. And Latos has quite the attitude.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 15, 2011 9:20 AM MST via iPhone app up reply actions
Sometimes I think Pitchers that attitude, I would like him on our team.
Would like Headley and I would ponder the thought of Bartlett @ 2nd
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by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 9:21 AM MST up reply actions
pitchers ***need that attitude
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 9:23 AM MST up reply actions
From the End of the Article
Then again, the Padres are not one or two players away from contending. Their organizational depth is improving. If they could land a strong multi-player package for Headley and another for Latos, their pool of young talent would be that much greater.
It’s not likely the Padres will trade Latos, but you never know where discussions might lead. For now, only one thing seems certain: The Pads will be active, and soon.
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by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 9:24 AM MST up reply actions
Oddly enough they are in the weird situation of needing to spend about 20 mil this off season
the new CBA has mandates in place for MLB Payroll
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
ahhh…that explains the Houston Street deal a little more
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by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 9:35 AM MST up reply actions
Bring on the Derek Lees of the world
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by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 9:35 AM MST up reply actions
I have not seen more opinions and articles and tweets from writers on
on a side note, releiver for average infielder, than the Astros Red Sox trade. Seems a bit ridiculous to me
#RedSox
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
Meh with Aviles, Scutaro, Pedrioa and Iglesias for two spots Lowrie was kind of redundant
and oft injured. Considering the price of relievers these days, especially ones with “closing experience” it struck me as about fair.
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
oh i think its fair…its just fine print deal to 29 other teams in the league, but because its the red sox its all over the place
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by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 9:39 AM MST up reply actions
Speaking of Splits ...
Did anyone notice Lowrie’s? Ug-ly:
.395 wOBA career vs. LH pitching
.282 wOBA vs. RHP
by Traindogger on Dec 15, 2011 12:21 PM MST up reply actions
Renck
other priorities right now, namely Cuddyer RT @ryan_mod: @TroyRenck any update on Theriot?
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One thing we haven't talked about
is how DOD has already dismissed signing Kuroda or Saunders. It may be a ploy to not show your hand but recent history suggests that DOD assigns a player a value and then assumes the value has been exceeded. For example, Lowrie was traded for a reliever and last year, Colby went for major league relievers which was below what we assumed it would take to pry him from StL. I’m fearful he’s doing the same with these pitchers assuming their asking price is higher than what we’re willing to pay. I’ll be upset if Kuroda signs with another team for 1 year 7 or 8 million instead of 10 to 12M as it’s been reported.
I was hoping to ask this directly to DOD last night but unfortunately I’ve only been a ticket holder for one whole year.
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Free agency means that players get to decide where to play on any number of criteria
money’s just one of those. Kuroda has already proven himself an example of the type of player that it won’t matter how much he’s offered, it will only matter if he’s sold on the location. Saunders is a little trickier case, but he’s not nearly as valuable, and not at all worth going out on a limb for.
Yeah
Kuroda is never coming here unless we pay him like 20.
agreed
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by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 11:45 AM MST up reply actions
Heyman
if #twins r concerned about morneau, cuddyer would still help. but hear they dont have $ at moment after inking willingham
Maybe they will have it later today, 15th is Pay Day
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by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 9:50 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
chemistry
I’m a little irritated about all of the chemistry innuendo over the past few months. The organization either needs to be more specific about it and say more specifically what’s missing and what they’re looking for, or they need to shut up about it. By being so vague, they’re making it appear that everyone that gets shipped out was some sort of clubhouse cancer, which I don’t think is the case. The only ones in there with the credibility to get in anyone’s face are Helton, Tulu, Cargo, and Giambi (maybe). It wasn’t reasonable to expect that from Iannetta, Stewart, or Smith (who they can’t wait to trade, for reasons that aren’t really clear). Either call the leaders out or let it go.
No.
They are making it clear that everyone that is getting shipped out didn’t meet the team’s expectations.
Iannetta: Big SLG dropoff
Smith: Didn’t develop HR power
Stewart: Disastrous decline
Nelson: Hasn’t done anything except steal home
I don;t think it has anything to do with being a clubhouse cancer.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 15, 2011 9:56 AM MST up reply actions
I don't think they're making that clear at all
They’re putting that out as the on-the-surface reasoning, but something else is pissing the organization off. You don’t get as snippy as OD was painted last night over Seth Smith just because Smith wasn’t performing as well as the team would like.
The Rockies aren’t stupid baseball people. They know that there’s a lot more to developing as a hitter than just hitting bombs. They’re working too hard to find a perfect mix of character in the clubhouse. I don’t know if they’re trying to somehow recreate 2007’s crew or what, but they’re sacrificing baseball ability for accountability – at least it appears as such.
In the meantime, there’s going to be another rift forming in the next few years if Rutledge and Arenado hit the majors with the impact we’d like to see. I have trouble not seeing a division between Tulo’s handpicked elite and the other 10 guys who aren’t those guys.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 15, 2011 10:01 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
You're right that there is more to it,
but I still think that are being clear that the resulting performance is the issue. What irks DOD is that he perceives that the performance is from lack of work ethic rather than lack of ability.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 15, 2011 10:05 AM MST up reply actions
I think its more about professionalism
than “this guy is a jerkoff to the clubhouse steward”. The implication is that guys are not improving (or declining) because they don’t do the things a pro athlete needs to do to improve/adjust. that was the thrust of the JV/Varsity comment.
This is DOD's perception.
It might be true. It might also be a rationalization from the guy that is in charge of stocking the organization with talent. The truth is probably somewhere in between.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 15, 2011 11:01 AM MST up reply actions
Very good point
certainly a lot of this could simply be attributed to DOD covering himself for mis-evaluations (or, as the Tracy headhunters might say, his complicity in letting Tracy misuse guys).
But its probably not entirely unfair/false, because if he was flat lying to throw these guys under the bus for his own sake, he’d undoubtedly really cheese off the Helton/Tulo class of guys who would know what he was doing and never respect him for it, and potentially call him on it.
I too tend to side with DOD on most of this. I’m sure that there is a little rationalization though.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 15, 2011 11:10 AM MST up reply actions
Cancer was a poor word choice
but I still think by being so vague, they’re creating the confusion. I think they did the same thing with Ubaldo, especially once he was gone. If there’s such an issue with these players not following appropriately, maybe the leaders aren’t getting it done. Or maybe these guys are being scapegoated to some extent. I don’t disagree that they’ve all been disappointments – it just seems like they’re getting a disporportionate amount of the blame.
I don’t know. I think they made it very clear on the first STH conference call. I only read through this one, but I think that the story of a lack of leadership int eh clubhouse is vary clear.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 15, 2011 10:10 AM MST up reply actions
lack of leadership
That seems true (not that I have any knowledge other than what I saw), but I’m not sure the solution to weak leadership is to just jettison the followers. To throw in a bad “Remember the Titans” quote, “Attitude reflect leadership, Cap’n.” It was a bad, disappointing year, and there’s no defense for Stewart, but Iannetta was far from the biggest problem on this club. I should hate Smith, considering the amount of time my wife spends staring at his ass, but I think Tracy pretty much abused him – I wondered whether or not he’d raped Momma Tracy at some point – the only possible explanation for his lack of playing time. The leadership piece just seems to be a new one, and I’m not sure what’s changed. I can’t imagine that Hawpe and Fogg provided all of it. Sorry about the ridiculously long post . . .
I'm with you on the sentiment
but let’s not throw rape around frivolously, please.
We tend to use “kicked his dog” or “Has incriminating pictures of” in the event of the opposite case.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 15, 2011 10:26 AM MST up reply actions
I'm with you on this ambiguity, FWIW
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 15, 2011 10:21 AM MST up reply actions
If we believe chemistry in this sense exists, then we will have to believe that teams need good followers as much as good lead
O’Dowd’s calling out players (seemingly mostly Street and Stewart) for not getting on board with the Tulo/Cargo/Giambi and I’d say Betancourt’s leadership rather than for not being vocal and in anyone’s face. That’s just my opinion of what’s been said, though, and it could be clouded by what I already knew about Stewart. Having Street, and to some extent Iannetta and Smith included in that group last night was a bit new to me.
Yeah, but here's my issue with O'Dowd's take on Street
O’Dowd keeps saying that if Street came back in 2012 he would have had to compete with Betancourt for the closer’s spot. And because “Huston wasn’t comfortable with that” the Rockies decided to move him.
Well that was thoughtful and all, but it’s the GM’s job to get solid return when he decides to move a player. You don’t trade Street for a used resin bag just because Huston’s not entirely comfy with his situation.
by Northsider1964 on Dec 15, 2011 10:13 AM MST up reply actions
I agree with the Street trade.
I think I’ve been pretty vocal as that’s the move of O’Dowd’s that’s been most sketchy to me since he’s started going down this path. All the other moves have at least been fairly close to fair value when the market was considered. I do think we overvalue Street here, but I think he could have gotten more than the Hog Schmidt he did get.
Exactly, or at least spend a few more weeks trying to get fair value
If the thought of possibly being an overpaid long/middle reliever was wearing on Street’s psyche – well, tough. If you don’t like it, sack up and go win your job back.
by Northsider1964 on Dec 15, 2011 10:21 AM MST up reply actions
Street has fought for his job before,
Including with the Rockies in ‘09. He doesn’t shy from the challenge and isn’t afraid to compete for what he wants. There seems to be something else going on, as others have pointed out, with this whole clubhouse situation. We went to a lot of end of season games, and there was a real sense of depression hanging over the team, and it didn’t feel that it was only because they were losing. Just an observation.
"We made too many wrong mistakes" - Yogi Berra
by purpleJerseygirl on Dec 15, 2011 5:24 PM MST up reply actions
Schmidt's irrevelant
Schmidt happens, but he’ll never have an effect on the Rockies.
The Street deal was a pure salary dump, a precursor to acquiring whatever free agent we end up overpaying for.
If the Cuddyer deal happens, then the correct analysis of that trade is: Street for Cuddyer. Or, to make the dollars almost even, Street + Stewart + Spilly for Cuddyer.
plus LeMahieu and Colvin, I should add
though I’ll be surprised if either of those ends up being more than a bit player for the Rockies
He's relevant if O'Dowd
insists on listing him among the promising young arms he’s acquired this off-season.
Throughout November, the prevailing theme was rotation help, rotation help, rotation help – and now we’re reduced to holding a tryout camp for castoffs and reclamation projects.
by Northsider1964 on Dec 15, 2011 12:06 PM MST up reply actions
honestly, team culture/chemistry does involve the players, but it starts with leadership. Tracy talks a good game about accountability and no egos and this and that, but I don’t think he walks the talk. If DOD wants to really improve culture and stuff he should be more interested in Tracy’s contributions rather than Cuddyers’ potential contributions in that department.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
PRMLB: The Brew Crew
by Resolution on Dec 15, 2011 11:03 AM MST up reply actions 2 recs
yeah its interesting how tracy gets a total free pass
while we clean out productive members of the team
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Tracy/Hurdle comparison
I’m curious – I was screaming as loud as anyone for Hurdle’s dismissal (and I still think he was given too long), and I was drinking the Tracy kool-aid in ’09, but how does their clubhouse leadership compare? I always sensed friction between Hurdle and Tulo, but did it go beyond that? Some players seem to have performed better under Hurdle.
Welcome to PR
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JFK
So the Braves are interested in signing Ronny Cedeno
are we sure they wouldn’t want Herrera as part of a Prado Trade?
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
All's I got to say
These better be some pretty damn good intangibles.
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 15, 2011 10:10 AM MST reply actions
They are varsity intangibles. How can you get better than that?
Seriously, you think that a JV like Stewart will get the head cheerleader to go to prom with him?
And let’s roll the John Hughes movie…
Well will he let me wear his letter jacket while he's playing?
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 15, 2011 10:15 AM MST up reply actions
Broncos (Tebow)
Avalanche (Landeskog)
It’s the latest craze in this town.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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Nene?
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 15, 2011 10:15 AM MST up reply actions
He did beat testicular cancer
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 10:15 AM MST up reply actions
Birdman?
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 10:16 AM MST up reply actions
are tattoos tangible or intangible?
The off-season sucks.
That is all.
by DAWNMARIE01 on Dec 15, 2011 10:24 AM MST up reply actions
only raised tats are tangible
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 10:25 AM MST up reply actions
Billups?
Oh, wait…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 15, 2011 11:25 AM MST up reply actions
That's wrong man. Just wrong.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
ha
I thought 2011 sucked pretty bad. I have nothing to add to that.
by prettyinpurple on Dec 15, 2011 12:05 PM MST up reply actions
Based on current standings, Tebow has Landy’s arse kicked in the intangibles department.
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 15, 2011 10:15 AM MST up reply actions
how has Landeskog been doing?
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 10:16 AM MST up reply actions
He’s been great as a rookie as far as playing goes. C- on intangibles.
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 15, 2011 10:17 AM MST up reply actions
Like rookie of the year great? in the discussion?
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 10:18 AM MST up reply actions
Ryan Nugent-Hopkins can already clear a spot on his mantle. The Oilers forward is top 10 in points in the entire league, and he’s still just 18.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
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that is simply amazing
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 10:24 AM MST up reply actions
LOL.
Landy has been great, but it’s obvious that Nugent-Hopkins is on another planet as far as talent goes.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
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(and really, standings are pretty much what you have to go on when evaluating intangibles)
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 15, 2011 10:17 AM MST up reply actions
I rely on intangibles when evaluating intangibles.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
AAA if he re-signs
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
I stand corrected and humbly apologize for my lack of optimism, Sir.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
LUNCH
The off-season sucks.
That is all.
by DAWNMARIE01 on Dec 15, 2011 10:29 AM MST up reply actions
LINNER
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 10:31 AM MST up reply actions
AFTER SCHOOL SNACK
The off-season sucks.
That is all.
by DAWNMARIE01 on Dec 15, 2011 10:32 AM MST up reply actions
DESSERT!
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
WINNAR!
The off-season sucks.
That is all.
by DAWNMARIE01 on Dec 15, 2011 11:54 AM MST up reply actions
MIDNIGHT SNACK
THEN 2AM SNACK
I thought 2011 sucked pretty bad. I have nothing to add to that.
by prettyinpurple on Dec 15, 2011 12:06 PM MST up reply actions
I think I remember the film
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 15, 2011 12:09 PM MST up reply actions
Its the one where
Holly Golightly gets sprayed in the face with a fire hose for 90 minutes.
Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
No, that was Break Fast at Tiffani's
Or, at least that’s what I think I heard somewhere.
Also, that wasn’t actually a fire hose.
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 15, 2011 12:17 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Yes please and thank you!
I’ll have a breakfast burrito if you don’t mind
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
OT: Gregg Doyel CBS
Sam Hurd accused of trying to buy half-ton of pot, weekly. Bears “are disappointed whenever these circumstances arise.” There were others???
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
I'm always disappointed when my employees are accused of that too.
Rule #1, don’t get caught. What kind of loosey goosey dope operation are the Bears running, anyway? Serious management issues there.
by Rox Girl on Dec 15, 2011 10:33 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Holy MaryJ
According to the criminal complaint filed in the case, Hurd told an undercover operative that he wanted up to 10 kilograms of cocaine and a half-ton of marijuana per week “for distribution in the Chicago area.” He added that he was willing to pay $25,000 per kilo and $450 per pound."
…[H]is co-conspirator is in charge of doing the majority of the deals as Hurd focuses on the ‘higher-end’ deals. Hurd subsequently inquired if the UCA (undercover operative) and the CI (confidential informant involved in the case) could provide him with Mexican cellular telephones, as Hurd believed that law enforcement did not have the capability of listening to Mexican telephones."
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 10:35 AM MST up reply actions
pay $25,000 per kilo
dude’s getting ripped off
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
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i'm not a pot expert
But 450 a pound also seems very high, especially on the distribution/bulk level.
haha
‘higher-end’ deals
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 10:55 AM MST up reply actions
28 dollars an ounce?
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
That's a pretty good price.
Unless its dirt.
Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
If it's from Mexico ...
…it probably is ;)
by Traindogger on Dec 15, 2011 12:31 PM MST up reply actions
I think the $25k/kilo #
was for the cocaine.
by Traindogger on Dec 15, 2011 12:34 PM MST up reply actions
somebody
really liked the Wire for the wrong reasons.
All in the game, baby.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
by Franchise26 on Dec 15, 2011 10:54 AM MST up reply actions
Bunk is the right reason.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
PRMLB: The Brew Crew
Omar is the rightest reason.
The off-season sucks.
That is all.
by DAWNMARIE01 on Dec 15, 2011 11:11 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Omar will always be the rightest reason.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
There is no wrong reason to like The Wire
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Well, maybe studying how to run a drug ring could be a not-right reason.
The off-season sucks.
That is all.
by DAWNMARIE01 on Dec 15, 2011 11:29 AM MST up reply actions
Meh...potato/pohtato :)
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Wow. Dude must really get the munchies!
The off-season sucks.
That is all.
by DAWNMARIE01 on Dec 15, 2011 10:34 AM MST up reply actions
DINNER!!
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
BREAKFAST BRUNCH LUNCH LINNER AFTERSCHOOLSNACK TEA DINNER DESSERT MIDNIGHTSNACK
The off-season sucks.
That is all.
by DAWNMARIE01 on Dec 15, 2011 10:41 AM MST up reply actions
FOURTH MEAL!
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
WHYSTOPATFOUR?
The off-season sucks.
That is all.
by DAWNMARIE01 on Dec 15, 2011 10:47 AM MST up reply actions
CAUSETACOBELLCLOSESAT2!
Think about how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! --George Carlin
Assume nothing
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
it's Sam Hurd's only significant possession of the Bears season.
"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"
Luftfeuchtigkeitsregler über alles.
by The Lodo Magic Man on Dec 15, 2011 3:45 PM MST up reply actions 6 recs
hahahaha why isn't this green?
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
make it green
66 today, 65 tomorrow is how many days remain until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
Because it had only been posted for 3 minutes when you asked?
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 15, 2011 3:52 PM MST up reply actions
This is GasPurpleLampRowBall
Things should just be green when they’re posted ;-)
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 15, 2011 3:54 PM MST up reply actions
Bunch of slackers
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
The trouble with this is that the correct answer analytically should be “we don’t know, because we can’t measure it,” and so analysts would be right to make their remarks on what they can observe and quantify, but wrong to dismiss out of hand what they can’t as immaterial to personnel decisions.
Well…. we can measure something like org culture (or in this case climate) and disentangle its impact on employee perceptions, performance, and customer satisfaction.
.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
PRMLB: The Brew Crew
how many "great clubhouse leaders" do we really need?
we’ve got tulo, giambi, cargo, helton, now hernandez for the catchers and hispanics… a fifth of the roster is already covering the “clubhouse leadership” aspect. devote the other 4/5 to good players, like carlos beltran, a smith/thames platoon, etc.
arenado: it's Rockie for future
yeah...
if everyone’s leading, and no one’s following, we’re gonna go off a cliff. Or something.
I thought 2011 sucked pretty bad. I have nothing to add to that.
by prettyinpurple on Dec 15, 2011 12:08 PM MST up reply actions
I actually disagree with this article.
First off, you use selection bias when you talk about Cuddyer’s aging process. If you look at player who have performed well after 30, you will find that they performed well after 30.
Second, if you fWAR instead of rWAR, you see 6.5 for Smith and 6.7 for Cuddyer. I think fWAR measures hitting production better, while rWAR is better for pitching. In any case, just showing the version that proves your point isn’t the best approach.
By wRC+, Cuddyer and Smith are pretty similar over the last three years, with Cuddyer coming out on top. I think that this is a stat that will actually hurt Rockies players, as it deflates their production at home but doesn’t properly account for the disadvantage Rockies hitters have on the road. Nevertheless, it is what it is, and Cuddyer is ahead.
However, when you look at Andrew’s suggestion of a Smith/Jones platoon, I don’t think you could make that assertion. Smith is very good against righties, as Andrew has pointed out. Even with his very real struggles against lefties, he’s almost as good as Cuddyer (and playing time against like handed pitchers is similar for the two). If you eliminate those PAs against southpaws and replace them with Jones, the overall line suddenly looks much better than Cuddyer’s. That would come out to something in the neighborhood of a .370 wOBA, much better than anything we could expect from Cuddyer. Factor in the cost difference (Smith is arbitration eligible for the first time, Jones made $2M last year vs. the ~$10M we’re hearing about now), and I don’t see how you could argue that Cuddyer would provide better value.
You might suggest that the player Smith brings in return would swing the balance in Cuddyer’s favor, but you’ve also been saying that he’s not any good, so we can’t expect much in trade. Also, the difference in cost would probably be bigger than any trade reward.
I don’t think Cuddyer is the worst player the Rockies could get, and I don’t think he’ll be an utter disaster. However, I don’t think it’s the optimal use of resources and I think there are better ways to improve the Rockies’ chances of winning, both in 2012 and beyond.
I don't think anyone is saying that Smith isn't good.
The issue is that Smith, by himself, does not fit our needs. There’s a big difference.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 15, 2011 11:05 AM MST up reply actions
No he doesn't.
But getting a RH OF platoon partner is the easy part. And I don’t know what you mean by “doesn’t fit our needs,” we require someone to play in the outfield and to swing a bat when it’s his turn. If Smith plus platoon partner can do that better and more cheaply than Cuddyer, then by all means he fits our needs.
Is it selection bias to say that smokers are more at risk for certain diseases than the population at large?
Not really. You can look at subsections of a population and glean relative information, and it would be fair to say that “players that have quality offensive seasons after 30” is a large enough population to look more closely into. This is the big problem I have with the auto dismissal of Bradbury’s study. While it was wrong of him to assert it to be applicable to the whole population of baseball players, it does have relevance to a smaller cross-section.
I’m saying that Smith’s projection going forward is questionable, not that his current trade value is. It’s important to keep the distinction and that’s why I’m not contradicting myself. Mark Melancon might have a weak WAR projection as a reliever, but he was valuable enough in the trade market to net two players.
I agree with you that not everyone ages the same way.
I still think that reducing your set to players who perform well after 30 will alter your results such that you can’t extrapolate to another player. We don’t know yet that Cuddyer is someone who performs well after 30, so we can’t apply that aging curve. In my opinion, a better method would be apply to aging curves based on peak performance. Someone whose peak seasons produce around 6 WAR is going to age better on average than someone whose peak season is around 2 WAR. From what I could tell at a glance, Bradbury (or anyone else) hasn’t looked at that.
Even if Smith’s trade value is high, is it enough to overcome the difference between a Smith/RH bat platoon and Cuddyer? If we average their rWAR and fWAR over the last three seasons and use that as a baseline, Cuddyer should provide about 2 WAR and Smith about 1 WAR. If we replace Smiths PAs against lefties with a Gomes/Jones level bat, the combo is probably around 2 WAR (lower estimate). However, Cuddyer will cost in the neighborhood of $6M extra. Does Smith’s trade value exceed that?
Interesting Interview with Clint Hurdle
on 4 different players on the Pirates
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
PRMLB: The Brew Crew
this comment is great:
What’s his report on Chris Iannetta? For the love of god, what was so bad about Chris Iannetta?
arenado: it's Rockie for future
lololololol
:-(
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
PRMLB: The Brew Crew
Tweet from Renck
Rockies just waiting to hear from Cuddyer. Twins insist still in it. Mariners in as well. Rox still favorite to get him
Seems to me we have been waiting for a week. We can’t just keep waiting. At some point, Dan needs to move on to other players, including Beltran. Let Cuddyer sit on some other team’s hands.
marlins style
give your offer, demand an answer by a certain point
arenado: it's Rockie for future
I think the Twins spent his money, when they gave Joe Mauer $23 million a year to hit .325 and 10 home runs…while playing 1st base
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 11:41 AM MST up reply actions
I liked the mocumentary though...
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I'M GONNA GO HOME AND BITE MY PILLOW!!
Resident Lesbian Bunblogger - PurpleRow
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
Video tips on posting links and images to Purple Row - Click Here -
It seems as if the Rockies have the highest offer on the table and Cuddyer is either
A) Waiting for someone to offer him even more $ because he thinks his value is that high (as indicated by his original demands of 3/36)
or
B) Deciding if he will take slightly less money to go elsewhere because Colorado isn’t his first choice.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 15, 2011 11:53 AM MST up reply actions
All about the Benjamins, only really two players of his type left, let the teams bid against eachother
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 11:55 AM MST up reply actions
I suggest that When we Sign Cuddyer
We call him Sparkles… because he is basically a more sparkling version of Ty Wigginton
It's Jim Tracy's Fault.
by wolf213 on Dec 15, 2011 11:52 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
This is so true.
It’s truth is absolutely blinding.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 15, 2011 12:11 PM MST up reply actions
Cuddyer is a vampire?
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 15, 2011 12:14 PM MST up reply actions
he'd better not sign with us, then
300 days of sunshine a year!
arenado: it's Rockie for future
.
Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
by Thnikkaman on Dec 15, 2011 12:19 PM MST up reply actions 4 recs
/shudder
I thought 2011 sucked pretty bad. I have nothing to add to that.
by prettyinpurple on Dec 15, 2011 12:21 PM MST up reply actions
Just wait till I shop a rockies cap on him.
Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
actually, that ain't bad
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
the ones with their eyes closed look sleepy more than stoned
arenado: it's Rockie for future
just keep looking at it
arenado: it's Rockie for future
yeah, still doesn't annoy as much.
Something about Wiggy’s eyes just make his much more disconcerting.
It's pretty trippy.
I thought 2011 sucked pretty bad. I have nothing to add to that.
by prettyinpurple on Dec 15, 2011 12:35 PM MST up reply actions
dear god
i didn’t think it could get any worse than the wiggy picture….
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Uh.....what?
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
just look at how happy and friendly he is
little does he know, he’s just wiggy 2.0…. it’s almost sad, but he just keeps staring into space, as if it doesn’t affect him…
arenado: it's Rockie for future
If by ‘a more sparkling version’ you mean ‘a demonstrably better player at this point in his career than Wigginton is/was at the point we signed him’ then yes, Michael Cuddyer is precisely that.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
by Franchise26 on Dec 15, 2011 12:25 PM MST up reply actions 2 recs
Just realized one of the fireworks game is on my birthday .
Woo hoo- I know what I’m doing now.
I thought 2011 sucked pretty bad. I have nothing to add to that.
by prettyinpurple on Dec 15, 2011 12:23 PM MST reply actions
Sit way up top, on 1st base side, its awesome
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 12:28 PM MST up reply actions
My dream would be Pavilion.
Rockpile’s fine though.
I thought 2011 sucked pretty bad. I have nothing to add to that.
by prettyinpurple on Dec 15, 2011 12:30 PM MST up reply actions
I prefer a seat that
gets you on the field…
Resident Lesbian Bunblogger - PurpleRow
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
Video tips on posting links and images to Purple Row - Click Here -
Notable to me....
The Phillies likely will need offense if they lose Rollins and turn to Freddy Galvis at shortstop. They’ve already added Ty Wigginton, who overlaps with Cuddyer, batting right-handed and playing many of the positions. They’ve also added Laynce Nix, who is expected to share left field with John Mayberry.
Cuddyer, though, would create more of an impact than either Wigginton or Nix, and his former teammate with the Twins, Jim Thome, surely is lobbying for the Phillies to sign him.
Maybe he just means sparkly impact? I doubt it, for some reason…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 15, 2011 12:47 PM MST up reply actions
Phillies have Hamels Halladay Lee Worley, I don’t think they need any freaking offense
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 12:56 PM MST up reply actions
You might want to talk to Charlie77 about this.
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com
Leading the Astros into the Future. Go, Go Astros!
by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 15, 2011 1:00 PM MST up reply actions
Maybe if the Phils DO sign Cuddyer, they'd make Wigginton available in a trade.
He’s a RH power bat that would get the Coors Field bump, could back-up all the corner positions, spell Helton on lefty pitching days, and maybe even start at 3B until Arenado gets here. Versitility! Matchups! Also, he’s a good clubhouse presense – you know, to keep all those JV types in line. Best of all, we’re already paying half of his salary! DOD should make this happen. And maybe give him a player option for 2013.
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
Plus, Wiggy's a MAN
He can deliver babies in a walk-in closet, for god’s sake.
by Northsider1964 on Dec 15, 2011 1:27 PM MST up reply actions
he just can't deliver
with runners on base
2011 - not even light can escape
by Rosenort on Dec 15, 2011 1:28 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
BOOM
66 today, 65 tomorrow is how many days remain until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
Good point
Sure glad his wife didn’t go into labor while standing on 3rd base, with less than two outs.
by Northsider1964 on Dec 15, 2011 1:38 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Well at least one of the Wiggintons would have gotten on base
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Evidently Wiggy hit a home run there at some point.
No one was on base though.
The off-season sucks.
That is all.
Reading between the lines
I don’t think Cuddyer really wants to come to Colorado
It's Jim Tracy's Fault.
I'm not sure about that
I think it could just be him holding out for even more than we offered. Either way, I still think Dan needs to move on. Get Beltran damn it.
The problem is I get the sense Beltran is going to take just as long or longer.
The Beltran market has seemed even less slow developing than Cuddyer’s.
Beltran has too many plausible destinations that Dan is scared to forget about Cuddyer and go hard after Beltran..
That’s the issue I’m seeing take place. The Rockies are the favorites to get Cuddyer, and aren’t willing to take the risk to forget about Cuddyer and go after Beltran.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 15, 2011 1:07 PM MST up reply actions
With all this free money, Colorado needs to sign one big-name FA..
You can’t free up all that money and not get anybody. If Cuddyer moves on, we better get Beltran or we’re screwed.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 15, 2011 1:12 PM MST up reply actions
I'm willing to bet that if Cuddyer pulls the same shit with Minnesota with us
We sign Beltran just as fast as the Twins signed Willingham.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
Ah, if only it were that simple.
Beltran isn’t readily available to us like that.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 15, 2011 1:12 PM MST up reply actions
sure he is
he’s a free agent, he’s available to everyone
arenado: it's Rockie for future
You really think it's that simple?
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 15, 2011 1:16 PM MST up reply actions
yes
he’s a great fit here and we have the money to sign him. what better place for a borderline-HOF player to pad his late-career statistics?
arenado: it's Rockie for future
well, don't take offense, but you're wrong.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 15, 2011 1:20 PM MST up reply actions
so beltran is not a great fit here, we don't have the money to sign him, and coorz isn't a great place for a borderling-HOF player to pad his late-career statistics?
arenado: it's Rockie for future
I'm not talking about any of that.
I didn’t mean those things were wrong, because they’re clearly not.
I’m saying it’s not that simple to just forget about Cuddyer and sign Beltran. There are other teams, more attractive places to sign, that will be interested in Beltran.
Beltran is still a pipe dream.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 15, 2011 1:23 PM MST up reply actions
ok then
i would definitely agree that there are more attractive places for him to sign, st louis leading among them
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Yes, exactly.
Florida/Washington. Those are the three teams that scare me the most when it comes to Beltran.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 15, 2011 1:25 PM MST up reply actions
i hadn't heard washington as connected to beltran
i thought they were focused on cespedes and upton. makes sense though
arenado: it's Rockie for future
I'd root for Washington to win out on Cespedes
Florida have some solid options for center field right now.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
And Florida has two corner outfield players that aren't moving
In Stanton and Morrison.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
That's all true.
Washington could be a big player for Beltran.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 15, 2011 1:53 PM MST up reply actions
I don't really see anything in papality's post that's "wrong."
He said nothing about Beltran’s current feelings on the matter (which none of us know) or the likely timeline.
Read up ^^
It wasn’t towards that specific post.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 15, 2011 1:23 PM MST up reply actions
Yea I know.
No worries
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 15, 2011 1:24 PM MST up reply actions
Why is he wrong?
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
There were other teams willing to spend on Willingham too
They gave Willingham what he really wanted (the 3rd year) and moved on. There was every indication that Willingham wanted to wait until Cuddyer was signed.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
Agreed
If Beltran and his people were really looking to sign now, we would have heard a lot more talk about who is interested in him and who he’s interested in. The fact that such talk has taken so long to get started tells me that they’re really not interested in a quick signing. I think it’s going to be a slow process with him.
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 15, 2011 1:20 PM MST up reply actions
Why wouldn’t he? I don’t get it. Pitchers don’t want to come here, yet hitters don’t really want to either. Pitchers don’t want to hurt their numbers and hitters don’t want their numbers to be “inflated” as some people assume it is?
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 12:57 PM MST up reply actions
maybe he reads PR
and knows how we really feel…
Resident Lesbian Bunblogger - PurpleRow
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
Video tips on posting links and images to Purple Row - Click Here -
oh man i feel bad now
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 1:00 PM MST up reply actions
i don’t really want him to come to Colorado either
2011 - not even light can escape
by Rosenort on Dec 15, 2011 12:58 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
yup
arenado: it's Rockie for future
and really, that makes sense from his standpoint
we’re not going to to be winning anything in 2012
arenado: it's Rockie for future
that would be because we are paying him a lot of money to do not much, just as the twins with Joe Mauer
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 1:02 PM MST up reply actions
I didn't really think about the Philadelphia Jim Thome tie.
Agreed on all points here.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 15, 2011 1:06 PM MST up reply actions
Maybe this is too obvious...
but shouldn’t Cuddyer take some time since his wife just gave birth to twins?
And he didn't re-sign with Minnesota?
What is the world coming to…
Die-hard Rockies fan since 1993.
Poo-Bah of the San Diego Padres in the Purple Row OOTP League.
@Paul_Franz
My blerg
Blog from Rosenthal
"This kid wants to play baseball," the scout said. "He’s not going to take Jeter’s place, but he’s capable of being an everyday shortstop in the big leagues."
The scout projects Nakajima as a .270-.280 hitter who will drive in runs and use his instincts to steal bases, despite being a below-average runner. He lacks arm strength at short, but has great hands, very good range to his left and hangs in on the double play, the scout said.
Sounds like a scouting report for a solid second baseman (even though he’s a shortstop). Let’s go trade for him.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
he'd probably have to in MLB
as it says, weak arm….
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Whoops, here's the full quote
“This kid wants to play baseball,” the scout said. “He’s not going to take Jeter’s place, but he’s capable of being an everyday shortstop in the big leagues.”
The scout projects Nakajima as a .270-.280 hitter who will drive in runs and use his instincts to steal bases, despite being a below-average runner. He lacks arm strength at short, but has great hands, very good range to his left and hangs in on the double play, the scout said.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
Haven't seen this linked here.
Troy Renck’s story on his first day with Camp Tulo yesterday. Includes fitness scouting reports of the Rockies players.
supposedly he has been dying today
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 1:18 PM MST up reply actions
Because at the end of the day, you want to be the right fit.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
After a few months of walking 6,000 foot long trains at work
I started getting into the best shape of my life. Lost 50 pounds in a couple of months.
66 today, 65 tomorrow is how many days remain until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
After a Quick Search
The Rockies have only had 2 players from Puerto Rico (Carlos Beltran is from Puerto Rico), Javy Lopez and Edgard Clemente,
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
a few more than that
add Omar Olivares, Jose Morales and J.C. Romero to that list.
2011 - not even light can escape
winner's crew right there
arenado: it's Rockie for future
ahh thanks, we should have kept jose morales and jc romero and maybe beltran woulda signed with us
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 1:27 PM MST up reply actions
i mean we alread have johnny herrera on our team for the sole reason he is CarGos good friend
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 1:29 PM MST up reply actions
Right.
Not because he’s a solid defensive player in the middle infield positions.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 15, 2011 1:30 PM MST up reply actions
right, like i said
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 1:30 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
So you mean
not because he is the answer at 2b, as so many on here proclaimed 2 weeks into the 2011 season?
It's Jim Tracy's Fault.
He was the Answer for that question at that time.
He may not be the Answer anymore. Unless there is only one Answer allowed per season…..and even then the Answer can change when the question changes :)
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Just ask Allen Iverson
Die-hard Rockies fan since 1993.
Poo-Bah of the San Diego Padres in the Purple Row OOTP League.
@Paul_Franz
My blerg
If anyone
for even a second, thought that Herrera was the answer to anything, besides who could be in the running for the worse starting player in baseball, that person doesn’t know squat about baseball.
It's Jim Tracy's Fault.
He used to be the Answer
He used to be a pretty good answer.
Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
As I recall, a lot of the answer stuff was
highly tongue-in-cheek
Die-hard Rockies fan since 1993.
Poo-Bah of the San Diego Padres in the Purple Row OOTP League.
@Paul_Franz
My blerg
then you don't recall very well
There where people who proclaimed him to be the 2b of the future for the next 3 or 4 years.
It's Jim Tracy's Fault.
Dude, settle down
I recall just fine. Sure, some people were perhaps over-excited about his hot start. I think most of us – myself included – found the “scrappy doo” and “answer” stuff amusing. No need to get worked up over it…
Die-hard Rockies fan since 1993.
Poo-Bah of the San Diego Padres in the Purple Row OOTP League.
@Paul_Franz
My blerg
Wasn't just his start.
But his almost finish in 2010. But you weren’t here then so Dinger forgives you.
Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
I really don't recall anyone seriously suggesting that he was
going to be the all time 2nd basemen forever and ever.
It was a nice story to have someone do well, he was a little guy and just kept chugging. And really who cares if people did think that about him at that time? What difference does it make?
That’s my Answer.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Sending up the RIRFsignal...
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 15, 2011 1:45 PM MST up reply actions
You really need to shop his RIRFsuperhappyface
onto a batsignal….you know like the MattSignal
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
I don't remember anyone saying he was going to be the 2B for the next 3 or 4 years
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 15, 2011 1:45 PM MST up reply actions
If you review the Rockpiles between April 17th and 20th
There’s a lot of positive stuff about Johnny (as well as several negative things), but nothing to the nature of starting 2B for the next 3 to 4 years
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 15, 2011 1:53 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
And there it is.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
i think we should take his word on this, guys
he’s pretty good about this stuff…
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Well that's quite an indictment.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Look, we know you hate Herrera.
But every time the guy gets talked about, you don’t need to come and make a negative comment about the guy. He had his moments. And during that first month of the season, the dude was on fire. You can’t take that away from him, so stop trying to.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 15, 2011 1:40 PM MST up reply actions
I hate that
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
I hate being a hypocrite
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
I love being a hypocrite
I just hate when other people are hypocrites…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 15, 2011 1:46 PM MST up reply actions
You hypocrite!
Die-hard Rockies fan since 1993.
Poo-Bah of the San Diego Padres in the Purple Row OOTP League.
@Paul_Franz
My blerg
Hater
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Thank you!
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 15, 2011 1:48 PM MST up reply actions
Ya, too bad in baseball
You need to be consistent for you know…. 162 games… you can’t be on fire for 15-20 days and suck beyond repair for the remaining 142
It's Jim Tracy's Fault.
Lose the grudge, man.
That’s all I’ve gotta say. You get too fired up (in a bad way) when it comes to Herrera. Did he kick your dog or something?
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 15, 2011 1:44 PM MST up reply actions
Well, learn something new every day around here...
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 15, 2011 1:44 PM MST up reply actions
Wait a minute...are you suggesting that baseball players
aren’t streaky? Because if you are….well, you don’t know very much about baseball…
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
by SDcat09 on Dec 15, 2011 1:45 PM MST up reply actions 5 recs
lots of streakers in baseball
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 1:46 PM MST up reply actions
green
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 15, 2011 1:48 PM MST up reply actions
I never suggested that
Its one thing to be on a hot streak for a week or so, even a month…. but when you consistently can’t cut it for 130+ games a season, that’s something more then being in a cold streak..
Are you suggesting Herrera is more of the baseball player we saw in the first part of last season?
It's Jim Tracy's Fault.
I'm suggesting nothing about Herrera
I was responding to your comment specifically about players needing to be consistent. I surely don’t claim to have the Answer.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Maybe consistent wasn't the right choice of words
Because Herrera was consistent after April as well…. just in a very bad way
It's Jim Tracy's Fault.
The thing is that I think you might be confusing
what people actually really thought about Herrera as the long term answer(which I think would have been very few if any) with those that had a lot of fun with him because he seems to be a really nice guy with scrappitude and dingers in Florida and bloopyness to get on base. Is it because of the nickname that was created pretty much tongue-in-cheek?
If anything be mad at the FO for not being able to find an actual answer to the 2b woes.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Bingo
Die-hard Rockies fan since 1993.
Poo-Bah of the San Diego Padres in the Purple Row OOTP League.
@Paul_Franz
My blerg
He gets on base?
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com
Leading the Astros into the Future. Go, Go Astros!
by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 15, 2011 2:29 PM MST up reply actions
wait, i didn't see anybody point...
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Who Bingo?
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Herrera is a player who plays three infield positions above average
Is fun to watch in the field,
Speedy enough though not fast
and decent enough at putting that bat on ball, though definitely below league average bat
Basically, the definition of a great 25th man who should never start for extended period of time.
Supporting efforts to create a genetic splice of Jonathan Herrera and Troy Tulowitzki since 2011.
The NewNugs 2011 - Officially back on the Bandwagon
I <3 Johnson
by SurfaceThought on Dec 15, 2011 7:49 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
did we strike a johnny nerve?
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 1:36 PM MST up reply actions
I hate the hating. Can we stop the hating?
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
It's very confusing to hate hate...
because it feels hypocritical..
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Especially when HATE= LOVE
I thought 2011 sucked pretty bad. I have nothing to add to that.
by prettyinpurple on Dec 15, 2011 1:39 PM MST up reply actions
See, now I'm going quibble here.
Just because they grew up playing against each other, I don’t think we should assume they are good friends. I think they are probably more like frienemies :)
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
have you ever seen them at the games? During BP and stuff, when I go to games, I notice that they interact and talk a lot. Sometimes notably during the national anthem
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 1:35 PM MST up reply actions
I was making a joke there my frienenemy
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
There was a whole Rockies All Access show this season just about their friendship.
Seemed genuine.
The off-season sucks.
That is all.
ZOMG. I was joking you guys....oy
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
HAHAHA
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 1:38 PM MST up reply actions
I know. Just wanted to mention the show.
I love Jonny ScrappyDoo Herrera even if no one else does.
The off-season sucks.
That is all.
Heh. Fair enough
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
hey the Rockies FO made some concessions in order to get that extension for Cargo, johnnyherrera
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 1:39 PM MST up reply actions
Tell me something I didn't know, Jon...
no question, @mcuddy5 is great guy. but looks less than decisive. twins bid $25M/3, rox more. he toured philly. sea in, too
i hope he ends up in SEA, adrianbeltreesque
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 1:39 PM MST up reply actions
Cuddyer is stagnating this entire process
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 15, 2011 1:42 PM MST up reply actions
He sounds like he hasn't gotten off the Philly rumor
historic pitching staff, a very extended history of completely overpaying older, overrated players. I can see exactly why he feels he fits in Philly.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
And Jim Thome.
But yeah, I agree. But where does he fit on the field?
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 15, 2011 1:47 PM MST up reply actions
When has Philly ever thought about long term fit?
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
exactly
they’re like the yankees, but without a farm system
arenado: it's Rockie for future
My guess is Rangers get Prince
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
my guess is nobody gets Darvish, and waits til next year when he is free, atleast I think he is free next year is how i understood it
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 1:56 PM MST up reply actions
Boy it's a whirling Darvish trying to figure this out
Yu know what I mean?
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
all that money for just the right to deal with him is insane
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 2:02 PM MST up reply actions
I don't think they can handle that salary, man.
Holy crap if they get Fielder….
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 15, 2011 1:54 PM MST up reply actions
I think the Rangers have money to play with
After two WS Appearances, and a decent size market. Look for LA and Texas to become the west’s version of BOS, NYY
It's Jim Tracy's Fault.
something about a new TV deal in 3 years or something, i dont know
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 1:56 PM MST up reply actions
They have too many players that are getting expensive, though.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 15, 2011 1:57 PM MST up reply actions
keeping up with the angels in the OF
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 1:57 PM MST up reply actions
It's better than decent sized
It the #4 metropolitian area after NYC, LA, and Chicago.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 15, 2011 1:57 PM MST up reply actions
and they only have 1 team in their market
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 1:58 PM MST up reply actions
Maybe not with Fielder
But I do feel like the Rangers will have an answer for the double barreled atomic bombs that were shot at them by the Angels last week.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 15, 2011 1:59 PM MST up reply actions
I would find it very funny if Rangers Landed Fielder and Darvish
I doubt it would happen, but it would be awesome to see.
It's Jim Tracy's Fault.
Yeah
I see both as very unlikely but they will probably make a run at one or the other.
Either way the battle for the AL West next season will be outstanding.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 15, 2011 2:03 PM MST up reply actions
It will be a fun season seeing if anybody can take down the Oakland A’s
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 2:05 PM MST up reply actions
They'll take down themselves
like they always do
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
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by SDcat09 on Dec 15, 2011 2:06 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I wonder if Houston is like wtf are we getting ourselves into
PRMLB - Tampa Bay Rays
Houston fans?
Or Houston Mgt?
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Agreed.
They need pitching more than they need more offense.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 15, 2011 2:00 PM MST up reply actions
more than 1 way to skin a cat if you know what i mean
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 2:01 PM MST up reply actions
Harding
Rox keep talking to Cuddyer; Twins back in mix http://bit.ly/t1ZxTR
I told you they would get the money later this afternoon cuz its payday…owners just had to cash some checks
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
ESPN’s Jerry Crasnick reports that the Rockies are “leaning more toward” Michael Cuddyer than Carlos Beltran.
While Beltran’s upside is far greater, Cuddyer is a few years younger and a more reliable option health-wise. The Rockies likely have offers out to both free agent outfielders and will be expecting some sort of resolution soon. Cuddyer, 32, batted .284/.346/.459 with 20 home runs and 70 RBI over 584 plate appearances this past year for Minnesota.
not sure i call cuddyer "more reliable health-wise"
arenado: it's Rockie for future
at least, not enough for it to truly make a difference over how much better at everything beltran is
arenado: it's Rockie for future
And this is why O'Dowd isn't going to last much longer...
around here. He needs to get the FEAR out of his g.d. mind and go for the better player! Anyone can get hurt, even Cuddyer who’s on the wrong side of 30, making him more “prone” than, say, Smith.
What do we want? Assured averageness, or reaching more for the golden ring with a bit of extra risk of falling off the merry-go-round horse? I know what I’d do.
by GoRoxGo on Dec 15, 2011 2:49 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Agree completely
If we were talking about a 5 or 6 year contract, I would pick Cuddyer in a heartbeat. But there’s a good chance Betlran’s knee has 2-3 good years left. It will go downhill in a hurry after that, but so what?
Cuddyer’s a solid player, but I just don’t see him as ‘protection’ for Carlos and Tulo. With Beltran, I do.
by Northsider1964 on Dec 15, 2011 2:54 PM MST up reply actions
I may have to start chugging whiskey
While Beltran’s upside is far greater
Uh, try FAR, FAR, FAR GREATER (Beltran has had 9, COUNT EM, NINE SEASONS with a WAR of 4.4 or higher INCLUDING LAST YEAR while Cuddyer has NEVER had a WAR higher than 3.1)
Cuddyer is a few years younger
Try just under two years (23 months). A few years is 3-5 (maybe 3-4) in my mind.
more reliable option health-wise
While this one might be true, it’s still close. Beltran did play in more games than Cuddyer last season.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 15, 2011 2:50 PM MST up reply actions
It’ll be funny when Beltran signs with St. Louis for 15mil next season and only plays in 70 games.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
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So what? I'd be willing to take that risk...
if I’m the Cards GM. As the Rockies GM? There should hardly be a debate as to who would be the best hitter for us to sign.
if he only plays 70 games,
i’d still bet on him to out-WAR what cuddyer does next season in any number of games
arenado: it's Rockie for future
naw, StL has magic pixie dust for aging FA outfielders.
Uh, Holliday dropped the pixie dust.
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 15, 2011 2:57 PM MST up reply actions
i think it hit him in the junk.
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Joe Maddon: HAAAAWWWWWWW!!!!!
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 15, 2011 3:24 PM MST up reply actions
Homer: GIVE THAT MAN THE ONE MILLION DOLLARS!
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Heh, I just watched this randomly about 5 mins ago.
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 15, 2011 3:28 PM MST up reply actions
Hey FI2 you posting some links on purple row?
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You know it.
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 15, 2011 3:32 PM MST up reply actions
I'm probably gonna post a link tomorrow.
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I hear that.
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 15, 2011 3:37 PM MST up reply actions
so what would I do tomorrow?
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I will never go hungry again.
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Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 15, 2011 3:43 PM MST up reply actions
You can always depend on the kindness of strangers.
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just to bring it full circle
Resident Lesbian Bunblogger - PurpleRow
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Yes?
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Epic thread is epic
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
A lot of people said that about Berkman
and now he’s wearing a ring.
by Northsider1964 on Dec 15, 2011 2:57 PM MST up reply actions
the rare case of "best shape of his life" actually applying, though
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Oh sure
But the second year after microfracture is usually better than the first. The third year is usually equal to or better than the second. After that, it’s a crapshoot.
by Northsider1964 on Dec 15, 2011 3:06 PM MST up reply actions
RIRF, we are all better "armchair GMs"
than DOD is a “real GM” if he really prefers Cuddyer to Beltran this offseason. This whole notion of his is utterly absurd.
I disagree with this premise
Beltran is the better player, and that is not up for debate.
But Cuddyer would still constitute the biggest FA position player signing this franchise has made in a decade, and that’s nothing to scoff at. He’s a good bat, and he happens to fit positions of need.
Beltran is definitely the better player, but to deride Cuddyer as an empty signing isn’t accurate either.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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by Muzia on Dec 15, 2011 2:58 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
But Cuddyer would still constitute the biggest FA position player signing this franchise has made in a decade, and that’s nothing to scoff at.
that is 100% something to scoff at
arenado: it's Rockie for future
by papality on Dec 15, 2011 2:59 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Cuddyer is a solid player.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
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Damning with faint praise...
The fact that what you say about a potential Cuddyer signing is true is more of a statement about how our FO has whiffed in regards to bringing in difference-makers is the past than a testamonial as to why a Cuddyer 3/30 signing would be good.
Cuddyer is a solid player.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
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Solid player = 3/30?
Zeile was a solid player. We only committed to him for a year.
Both are the definition of “average” for their positions at this point.
Welcome to free agency.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
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Welcome to free agency, Colorado Rockies style:
aka settling for the 3rd-tier player.
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
in a list of beltran, willingham, and cuddyer,
cuddyer is clearly the third string
arenado: it's Rockie for future
In a list of caviar, filet mignon, and t-bone steak
Steak is certainly third tier. But it’s delicious and almost always hits the spot.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
by Muzia on Dec 15, 2011 3:11 PM MST up reply actions 4 recs
If by "overrated" you mean "disgusting fish eggs"
I concur…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 15, 2011 3:16 PM MST up reply actions
there is no way cuddyer is a t-bone steak
arenado: it's Rockie for future
2009: 124 wRC+
2010: 104 wRC+
2011: 124 wRC+
Yes. He is.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
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looks pretty similar to
2009: 124 wRC+
2010: 98 wRC+
2011: 115 wRC+
and that guy’s already on our team!
arenado: it's Rockie for future
And will cost a few million less
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 15, 2011 3:20 PM MST up reply actions
and doesn't have the injury history,
and is a better defender
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Questionably better defender
he’s also our best piece to fill an infield hole or starting pitcher position.
We don’t have that option otherwise.
It’s cool that you guys are comfortable with keeping a similar roster to 2010-2011. I’m not. I want to see changes.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
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by Muzia on Dec 15, 2011 3:22 PM MST up reply actions 2 recs
Injury history?
The guy has missed a total of 37 games over the last 3 years. When did he suddenly become made of glass?
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 15, 2011 3:28 PM MST up reply actions
Are you talking about Cuddyer?
Because he missed 91 games four years ago.
Which apparently hasn't affected him since...
Since he has missed an average of 12 for the last 3 seasons.
Beltran missed 98 two years ago, so I assume he’s off your list as well?
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 15, 2011 3:54 PM MST up reply actions
No, I just thought the three year thing was arbitrary.
I agree that Cuddyer is less of an injury risk.
Not arbitrary
just pointing out that since the injury he hasn’t been missing much time.
Probably didn’t make that clear.
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 15, 2011 4:12 PM MST up reply actions
But the steak is covered in some flavorless sauce (Cuddyer's defense) making the meal less tasty than it first looks
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 15, 2011 3:20 PM MST up reply actions
And it's sitting
next to a delicious feast that’s probably tastier, but in all likelihood is less attainable.
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 15, 2011 3:24 PM MST up reply actions
Are we still talking about baseball?
Or broads?
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 15, 2011 3:25 PM MST up reply actions
I thought this was carry over from yesterday’s discussion about the Super Bowl halftime show
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 15, 2011 3:26 PM MST up reply actions
Dames.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 15, 2011 3:27 PM MST up reply actions
Beltran is clearly first string
if he’s healthy (which is a valid question).
I don’t think it’s fair to say he’s clearly third string behind Willingham, though…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 15, 2011 3:12 PM MST up reply actions
i could only see that argument being true
if you think his ability to play multiple positions poorly is really that much of an asset, because willingham is a significantly better hitter than cuddyer
arenado: it's Rockie for future
not for our team
the FO is moving away from high K, low average, high power hitters
We had a pelthera of them lately, and it should be no surprise that our Coors Advantage disappeared. We need guys who will make contact to succeed at Coors Field.
I agree with the strategy.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Identical OPS + last year
Within 3 points of each other in 2009. Only in 2010 was there any significant difference over the last 3 years. And Willingham’s incredibly high K% last year (almost 30%) is a definite point of concern, especially for what this team is trying to do.
My point has nothing to do with Cuddyer’s “versatility”.
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 15, 2011 3:24 PM MST up reply actions
Free ageny also means taking risks...
And the Rockies are doing this FA signing thing like a dog with a tail between its legs. We should be willing to take the downside risk of Beltran for the upside reward he can provide that Cuddyer can’t.
Honestly, how much more do you think Beltran would cost? I saw a table in yesterday’s RP that showed how DOD has frittered away over $34 million in contracts. Just a small fraction of that gets us Beltran instead of Cuddyer, I say.
there has been nothing cowardly about this offseason for DOD
He has taken plenty of risks, and I guarantee you that he’s not done. We can get Beltran and hope for 140 games from him, or we can get Cuddyer + another starter + another pitcher.
Armchair managing is great for us, but it’s not realistic.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Or we can...
get Beltran + another starter + another pitcher. Why are you and DOD both so willing to “settle”?
Now we're printing money?
Be realistic.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
I ask you again...
How much extra $ committment is Beltran on a 2-year contract with an option year vs Cuddyer at 3/30?
a Volquez or Prado, at the very least.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Beltran's extra dollars not mutually exclusive...
from Volquez or Prado. In fact, a case could be made that Beltran ISN’T extra dollars when you consider extra ticket sales, T-shirt sales, and extra wins possibly pushing us into the playoffs.
Sure.
But you’re forgetting one vital point.
Beltran has to sign with us first.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
No, not correct...
WE have to offer him a contract first. By all accounts, we haven’t yet. If we had, the Twitterverse would have been chirping about it.
I did see something about a contract offer earlier today.
And really, we haven’t heard about any contract offers to Beltran by any team. The process for him is going to take a long time.
Beltran will likely be the last major FA signed
or one of the very last ones. If multiple teams are counting on him to make their offseason, there’s going to be a lot of broken hearts at the dance.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
WHO offered Beltran a contract today?
Surely it wasn’t us? There would be 500 more posts in this RP if true.
I saw a tweet (haven't gone back to find it)
that the Rockies had contract offers out to Cuddyer and Beltran. It could have been wrong. But my larger point was that regardless, the Beltran market has clearly not developed yet and is likely not nearly as close to signing as Cuddyer (regardless of his current indecision).
Not stated as fact, but this is it I think:
ESPN’s Jerry Crasnick reports that the Rockies are “leaning more toward” Michael Cuddyer than Carlos Beltran.
While Beltran’s upside is far greater, Cuddyer is a few years younger and a more reliable option health-wise. The Rockies likely have offers out to both free agent outfielders and will be expecting some sort of resolution soon. Cuddyer, 32, batted .284/.346/.459 with 20 home runs and 70 RBI over 584 plate appearances this past year for Minnesota.
Source: Jerry Crasnick on Twitter
That may be what I'm remembering.
Not sure.
In any case, I think we can probably be fairly confident that the Rockies have at least had enough discussion with Beltran that they have some idea of where that market may end up.
I went back through my timeline
because I was remembering the same way you are. I didn’t see anything definitive, but when Traindogger posted sounds about right to what I was thinking I saw…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 15, 2011 4:36 PM MST up reply actions
That was 2002, this is 2011. Michael Cuddyer is a better hitter right now than Todd Zeile ever was. And Zeile was 36 when he signed. This is not apples to apples.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
Nothng ever is apples to apples....
Two players being compared are always different from each other. My analogy, which you missed above, is that Zeile was to our 3B situation in 2002 what Cuddyer would be to our OF situation in 2012. Average everyday players for their positions at time of acquisition.
Honestly though
if you want to play around in free agency, follow the Yankees. The vast majority of clubs cannot take those types of financial risks.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
You mean Cuddyer isn't actually worse than Wiggy's little sister?
You know, the one with bad eyesight and a limp?
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 15, 2011 3:00 PM MST up reply actions
Cuddyer is a so--
Oh, this was a joke.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
I agree with you there
I would certainly rather have Cuddyer than the &*^#*# lump of coal in my stocking that I’m probably going to get if we don’t sign Cuddyer.
And if Helton has a bad year health-wise, his ability to play 1B is a plus. Don’t really buy him as a 3B solution, though.
by Northsider1964 on Dec 15, 2011 3:10 PM MST up reply actions
Question
I keep seeing that grey box around here. What’s the deal with that?
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 15, 2011 3:12 PM MST up reply actions
When I substitute symbols for a swear word
The site seems to put them in a grey box. My bad.
by Northsider1964 on Dec 15, 2011 3:14 PM MST up reply actions
No it's okay
I was just wondering if the boss people were doing it to keep my pretty eyes from seeing foul language. Just curious :-)
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 15, 2011 3:17 PM MST up reply actions
Naw, I do my own censorship
And then the site adds a double layer, I guess.
by Northsider1964 on Dec 15, 2011 3:18 PM MST up reply actions
Why can't Beltran play first if need be?
I’m old enough to remember Willie Mays playing 1st for the Giants part-time as he got older. It’s not that hard for a natural CFer to learn.
He probably could
As could Blackmon or Colvin. But they haven’t done so at the MLB level, whereas Cuddyer has.
That doesn’t make me want Cuddyer over Beltran, because I don’t – it’s just a point in Cuddyer’s favor.
by Northsider1964 on Dec 15, 2011 3:30 PM MST up reply actions
Very minor point...
Speaking of minor, the Giants never sent Willie to the minors to learn the 1st base position.
He was 39 before he ever played more than 1 game at 1B
so it’s not surprising they didn’t send him to the minors at that point.
Also, he was REALLY bad at 1B (15 E in 709 chances for his career). By comparison, Helton’s worst season at first was 11 E in 1585 chances. Prince Fielder’s worst is 17 in 1475 chances. Making errors at twice the rate of Fielder is probably not the best argument for how easy that transition is.
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 15, 2011 3:51 PM MST up reply actions
Scorers dished out more errors back in the day...
If Tulo were playing in 1971, he’d have 20 errors a season. These days, more than half of those are ruled singles.
errors= totally a good way to measure defensive skill
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Right, I'm sure he was actually a gold glover...
Maybe you’d like to come up with some UZR scores from 1971 instead?
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by Junction Rox on Dec 15, 2011 3:55 PM MST up reply actions
You can deny it...
But the truth is fielders only get errors anymore if the ball is routine and hit right at fielders. That didn’t used to be the case.
So you're saying Mays was a good 1B?
Seriously, this is a ludicrous conversation.
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 15, 2011 3:57 PM MST up reply actions
no, we're saying errors don't mean anything
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Tulo might want to have a chat with you about this.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Then find a better stat to show he was good.
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
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by Junction Rox on Dec 15, 2011 3:58 PM MST up reply actions
i never said he was
i just said
errors= totally a good way to measure defensive skill
arenado: it's Rockie for future
case in point: people think he was the best defensive CF of all time
but he’s got the second most errors, 139, among all CFs 1954-present…. for comparison, andruw jones, another candidate for that moniker, has only 39. are you seriously debating that errors are not a stupid stat?
arenado: it's Rockie for future
what's the fielding %?
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 15, 2011 4:08 PM MST up reply actions
mays is ranked 142nd since 1954
at .9813.
the all-time leader is darin erstad, .9968. andruw jones has .9915
arenado: it's Rockie for future
wow, never thought i'd find myself defending willie mays
i’ve always been of the opinion that he’s one of the most overrated players of all time
arenado: it's Rockie for future
They're not the best stat
I agree with that. But in the absence of any other stat, they’re more informative than nothing. Unfortunately, the availability of advanced fielding stats wasn’t all that great 40 years ago.
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by Junction Rox on Dec 15, 2011 4:13 PM MST up reply actions
He was passable, and I watched him play...
So, no, he wasn’t a Gold-Glover, but the Giants GM didn’t think it necessary to use a roster spot for such a sub. The Say Hey Kid filled in fine.
Beltran could too, in a pinch, though obviously Cuddyer has already proven he can do that too,
IN fact, Beltran getting a handful of 1B starts...
would help in preserving his knees. It really should be considered by whichever team signs him.
I watched him play too...
Most of his 1B time came in 1971, when McCovey was hurt a lot. He filled in fine because he put up an OPS+ of over 150 that year. Not because of his defense.
Maybe Beltran could fill in at 1B. But it’s certainly no given he could play there at any level we would want to count on. I’d still prefer him over Cuddyer because of his value at the plate, but as an OF only. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to project any value to Beltran at any other position. It’s just wishful thinking.
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by Junction Rox on Dec 15, 2011 4:07 PM MST up reply actions
That's a fair comment...
but a good organization signing Beltran should ask him to take a few reps at 1st base if they are in our same situation with an aging 1st baseman, and as I said, it could help preserve Beltran over a long season.
I brought this up to show the foolhardiness of O’Dowd IF he’s opting for Cuddyer over Beltran simply due to the 1st base experience. Honestly, that should not be a dealbreaker for DOD to go out and get Carlos.
but a good organization signing Beltran should ask him to take a few reps at 1st base
What.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
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I agree it shouldn't be a dealbreaker
particularly as long as our ridiculous love affair with Giambi goes on. Between Giambi and Pacheco there is no pressing need for somebody else to play 1B, which means Cuddyer’s ability to do that is even less valuable.
If there’s anything to be said for Cuddyer playing 1B, it’s probably only in the possibility of moving him there when Todd retires, if he’s still around and a bat worth getting in the lineup.
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by Junction Rox on Dec 15, 2011 4:16 PM MST up reply actions
Is anyone excited about seeing Cuddyer at 1st?
I mean that as a question. I thought the primary reason we were interested in him was his bat
I know his bat is the main thing for me
his glove isn’t exciting anywhere on the diamond.
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by Junction Rox on Dec 15, 2011 4:25 PM MST up reply actions
Not true
He’s actually quite respectable in RF and most expert scouting of him uses basically neutral terms: Not a plus or minus, especially. He does have a plus arm and his 1B been decent. But don’t put him in LF or 3B, largely because he’s deaf in one ear.
by BostonTransplant on Dec 15, 2011 4:43 PM MST up reply actions
I realize ...
Defensive stats are not the be all end all, but since when does a career -6.6 UZR/150 (including -20.6 in 2010 & -13.7 in 2009) translate to “quite respectable?”
I am not against Cuddyer for his bat, but I do believe his defensive inneficiencies take away a lot of that value.
He's not good defensively
but it’s probably worth noting that Beltran is at -7.5 and -9.2 UZR/150 the last two seasons himself, and Smith was -7.8 last year (although a shocking good +9.8 in 2010). So the question might become, how much worse is he than the other obvious alternatives at this point? Obviously worse based on that stat, but how significant is the difference?
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by Junction Rox on Dec 15, 2011 5:05 PM MST up reply actions
Which only goes to show ...
How much more value there is in Beltran’s bat given that he CRUSHES Cuddyer in WAR.
Agreed
I really wish the Beltran show would get on the road, because I would really love for us to land him.
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by Junction Rox on Dec 15, 2011 9:45 PM MST up reply actions
Of all the defensive stats
I find Fangraphs’ ADR the most appealing, because it combines a bunch of metrics. That basically shows he’s worth about -8 runs/season in RF, not as bad as UZR. It looks like that’s a little less than half of the runs he contributes on offense.
I was kind of wondering the same thing.
What position are we expecting him to play now? If I’m understanding what I read from Muzia and Rox Girl, we’re expecting to put him in right and trade Smith for Prado.
If that trade doesn’t go down, does he platoon with Smith and play third the rest of the time?
based on the conference call last night
I don’t think anyone should expect Seth Smith on the roster come Spring.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
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Unless we screw all the other pooches and can't sign anyone
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Almost certainly the plan
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by Junction Rox on Dec 15, 2011 4:37 PM MST up reply actions
I think Smith gets traded no matter what
(unless we don’t get Cuddyer or Beltran). May just be for a pitcher instead of Prado.
UZR only exists 2002-present
and historical TZ is not the greatest measure, however, it has him at -5 for 600 innings at first base
arenado: it's Rockie for future
McCovey, considered a strong 1st baseman...
would get charged with tons of errors. Stretch would get charged with maybe 5 or so if he played in today’s era.
Most errors in a season was 22
and that was on over 1400 chances.
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by Junction Rox on Dec 15, 2011 3:56 PM MST up reply actions
Right, and 12 to 15 of those 22..
would be scored basehits in today’s MLB.
Still double the rate of Mays
who probably got fewer errors than most, just based on sympathy and respect.
Please come up with some stats to support your claim that Mays was a good 1B, instead of just trying to ignore the facts to the contrary I have already found.
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
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by Junction Rox on Dec 15, 2011 4:00 PM MST up reply actions
You have presented no facts to prove he was bad...
at 1st base, and you were the one who brought it up!
You like to twist conversations around when they don’t go in the direction you like?
Stop with the ad hominem attacks
this is two discussions we’ve had, and two discussions where you’ve gone for the personal attacks when somebody dares to disagree with you. It’s juvenile, and it does nothing to support your point. I’m really not in the mood to put up with them again.
Pretend and deny all you want, I’m the only one who has posted anything beyond some gauzy memories as to what sort of 1B Mays was. I’m sorry they don’t go your way, but I’m not going to do your job of refuting them for you. If you don’t want them in the conversation, go find some actual facts to support your unsupportable claims.
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by Junction Rox on Dec 15, 2011 4:11 PM MST up reply actions
uh....
I’m the only one who has posted anything beyond some gauzy memories as to what sort of 1B Mays was.
historical TZ is not the greatest measure, however, it has him at -5 for 600 innings at first base
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Sorry, I forgot that one
I was kind of on a roll there, and was really just talking to GRG. Didn’t mean to ignore what you posted.
Not worth pursuing at this point, but I just realized that 600 innings at 1B and 700ish chances doesn’t seem like it adds up, unless the Gints/Mets had some of the all-time fly ball pitching staffs around that time…
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by Junction Rox on Dec 15, 2011 4:18 PM MST up reply actions
I made no cliams, you did...
You wrote Mays was “REALLY bad at 1B” and then thought his error count supported that claim. I said it doesn’t due to differents eras.
You can try for sympathy by charging me with an ad hominem personal attack, but it doesn’t wash here. That’s because you are trying to get me to prove a claim when it was you making the definitive statement. All I said is Mays was passable. I wish to go no further with this, even though you won’t let it go.
I compared Mays' error count to McCovey's from the same era
Mays looks bad. I asked you to find some support for YOUR claim that Mays successfully moved to 1B. You responded by attacking me and anything I posted. Papality, thankfully, stepped up and found something else (which primarily supports what I have been saying, and which I note you also choose to ignore.)
And I’m not asking for sympathy. I’m asking you to stop accusing people of posting strawmen, of twisting conversations, and of otherwise resorting to personal commentary about other posters. The rest of us do get to challenge your ideas here, and you need to understand and respect that.
If you want to come on here and advocate trading Arenado for a mid-rotation starter, expect to be challenged. When you want to claim that Willie Mays moved to 1B with no problem, and use that to sell the idea that Beltran could obviously do the same, expect to be challenged. And when that challenge comes, please be prepared to defend your idea in some other way than attacking the person who challenges you and going “la la la la la I can’t hear you” when shown that your claim is not historically accurate. I have admitted that errors are not the be all and end all of stats, but as you now ignore the other stats Papality has posted, I’m pretty sure that was never the real argument here anyway.
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by Junction Rox on Dec 15, 2011 4:33 PM MST up reply actions
Agreed
Probably farther.
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 15, 2011 4:37 PM MST up reply actions
I was going to say...
There is no domestic violence tolerated on this site . (Unless it commited by me ! ) :-|
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Let's get one thing straight here...
I am not attacking you personally, but you have just read me the riot act in your 3rd paragraph just above, and that’s uncalled for and I consider it a public personal attack. However, I will not complain about it.
All I said, which you deemed a personal attack, is that you seemed to want to twist the conversation around to me proving a claim I didn’t even make, i.e. that Mays was solid at 1st base. Clearly, he wasn’t as good as McCovey, and I never made THAT claim. All I said is he was passable, and that was only for spot duty. No need for me to respond to what YOU want me to respond to with defensive numbers that are clearly inconclusive because of the way scoring went in 1971 versus now. So, I don’t respond to your query, and you cry foul? Call me “juvenile”? Just give in up, man.
It was already given up
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
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by Junction Rox on Dec 15, 2011 8:50 PM MST up reply actions
it's over
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 15, 2011 9:02 PM MST up reply actions
Whether we agree or not
I think Cuddyer’s MLB-level experience at 1B is one of the things that makes him more attractive to O’Dowd. And given that we have a starting 1B with a bad back and a backup 1B who can’t step on the field two days in a row, I can understand that. That’s one of the reasons I don’t like the infatuation with Giambi, but that’s a discussion for another day.
by Northsider1964 on Dec 15, 2011 3:56 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
may I ask what RIRF means?
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 2:59 PM MST up reply actions
It's me
It’s just easier to write RIRF than my entire handle
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 15, 2011 3:00 PM MST up reply actions
But what does RIRF
mean, in the greater existential sense?
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 15, 2011 3:02 PM MST up reply actions
It means happiness.
But sometimes, sadness.
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 15, 2011 3:06 PM MST up reply actions
they taste
very similar.
Resident Lesbian Bunblogger - PurpleRow
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
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It means living in the NW wile following a Mountain baseball team
And the uncanny ability to find and link specific posts on SBnation quickly.
Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
by Thnikkaman on Dec 15, 2011 3:15 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Really Interesting Rockpile Finder?
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
hey thanks, i feel kinda dumb now, but glad i figured it out
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 3:02 PM MST up reply actions
Rockpile Information Retriever Fabuloso
The off-season sucks.
That is all.
by DAWNMARIE01 on Dec 15, 2011 3:02 PM MST up reply actions 7 recs
Should be green
Die-hard Rockies fan since 1993.
Poo-Bah of the San Diego Padres in the Purple Row OOTP League.
@Paul_Franz
My blerg
It is
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
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by Junction Rox on Dec 15, 2011 3:33 PM MST up reply actions
x5 now
66 today, 65 tomorrow is how many days remain until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
Damn late to the party
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uQ76qrlK78
66 today, 65 tomorrow is how many days remain until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
Cold....man...cold.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
He certainly is dogged in his research!
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Rockpile Information Retriever/Fetcher
The off-season sucks.
That is all.
by DAWNMARIE01 on Dec 15, 2011 4:11 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
This is just so perfect
In fact I’m fleccing it again
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Club house issues can also be coachability
I remember reading about Ian Stewart that they couldn’t get him to go the other way. He was looking up at the Mendoza line , but he had to swing for the fences, couldn’t get the thought out of his head.
Might not the player unload be about getting rid of players who were not baseball smart? Situation matters. Several of these players may have exhibited poor grasp of game situations at times.
tulo swings at every fastball at his eyes past the 8th inning
and was thrown how many times trying to stretch a single into a double? why’s that loser still here?
arenado: it's Rockie for future
will the rockies please just trade for John Danks?
like right now..
considering they want montero and banuelos/betances from new york
and we have nothing that is comparable, i’d say no
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Rosario and Matzek
Done
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 3:03 PM MST up reply actions
haha, we have the best prospects in baseball, ever, they should start the BA Top 100 with the entire Rockies organization, Thomas Field is basically Roberto Alomar, shit Matzek is like Sandy Koufax, and even Josh Slaats is easily as good as Curt Schilling
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 3:09 PM MST up reply actions
really not getting your angle here....
arenado: it's Rockie for future
that was a long way of telling you yes, i was joking
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 3:11 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
ok good
its finals and my brain doesn’t seem to be catching everything lately
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Seriously, though, what about Rosario and Pomeranz?
I don’t really know how well Pomz compares to Baneulos or Betances, but I had the impression they were a little overrated as most NYY prospects tend to be. John Danks is pretty darn good; maybe he’s not as good as Pomz’s ceiling, but he’s a lot better than the floor.
Woops, I didn't see the post below.
Contract status would make this foolish.
We just traded Ubaldo for Pom
Why would we trade Pom for Danks — who has one controlled year left and won’t stick around ?
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
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Yeah, I posted too quick.
The point I was trying to make is that Danks is pretty good … but that trade idea doesn’t make any sense in retrospect.
Bad idea
This is his walk year, and he’s for sure walking into a $12-15m year long term deal if he’s halfway decent this year. We get him for 2012 only.
by BostonTransplant on Dec 15, 2011 3:06 PM MST up reply actions
Sigh ... I just want this outfield FA thing to end soon
So I don’t have to put up with the silliness whenever I check the Row.
So I don’t have to read endlessly about how Carlos Beltran is a better player than Michael Cuddyer (no one’s disagreeing, including O’Dowd), and somehow by extension how awful, Herrera-like Cuddyer is, which is utter crap.
It would be epic management fail to turn away from Cuddyer, a All-Star player that fills a need perfectly and who we have a 50% or better shot at signing at a level that would allow us to fill ANOTHER need, for a 5% (maybe) shot at signing Beltran at a price that would allow us to make another deal. You guys are just creating a strawman, pretending that someone thinks Cuddyer is a better player. We don’t just get to choose whom we want. If Cuddyer gets away, we’re just one of a half dozen or more teams, all with more money, bidding on Beltran.
The idea of whiffing on both — on purpose! — and signing a platoon partner is even crazier. There are any number of really good reasons for this … losing our best trade chip (Smith), having to leave Blackmon off the 25 man roster when he has nowhere to go, relying on TWO over 30 outfielders to stay healthy and perform well, as opposed to one. The list goes on and on.
Sheesh. I’m done ranting. Just get the Cuddyer deal done, Dan. Then move on to SP and 2B, and I’ll be excited to be there on opening day.
by BostonTransplant on Dec 15, 2011 3:05 PM MST reply actions 2 recs
Are you new around here?
If it isn’t Cuddyer vs. Beltran it will just be two other players.
It’s The Row.
The off-season sucks.
That is all.
by DAWNMARIE01 on Dec 15, 2011 3:07 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
See definition 3
row /rō/
Noun:
1) A number of people or things in a more or less straight line: “her villa stood in a row of similar ones”.
2) A period of rowing.
3) A noisy acrimonious quarrel: “they had a row and she stormed out of the house”.
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 15, 2011 3:11 PM MST up reply actions 5 recs
recs are really a zero sum game here.
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 15, 2011 3:12 PM MST up reply actions
I know but the idiocy just hurts ...
Especially when work doesn’t let you post on blogs and you have to sit there and just read it all day long.
by BostonTransplant on Dec 15, 2011 3:17 PM MST up reply actions
Agreed.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
May I remind you that Wiggy was an "All-Star player"...
For that matter, Hawpe was too. This is no argument to help your case.
That doesn't mean every all-star player is bad
let’s not pretend that it does.
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 15, 2011 3:29 PM MST up reply actions
no, but it's not a legitimate credit to the cuddyer camp
because you can throw “borderline HOF” up next to beltran, and that’s a way bigger boost
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Probably why everybody agrees Beltran is the better player
but there is absolutely no guarantee he comes here. Not even a very good likelihood that happens, honestly.
And that doesn’t mean everybody not named Beltran is a horrible player.
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 15, 2011 3:32 PM MST up reply actions
So was Jose Lopez
Everyone knew Wigginton sucked, and no one except the Rockies were interested in him.
Cuddyer’s in a totally different league. Come on. I think you even know that.
by BostonTransplant on Dec 15, 2011 3:33 PM MST up reply actions
Pitchers don't like Coors Field
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
pitchers, as a breed, are dumb
- Ted Williams
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 15, 2011 3:16 PM MST up reply actions
But why do we think that pitchers are gonna sign here? Can we just give it up, it is getting old
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 3:17 PM MST up reply actions
Hey, look! It’s a trade for a pitcher!
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Volquez, alright lets talk
Kuroda, lets give it up
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 3:21 PM MST up reply actions
Call me cynical
but sometimes I feel that if Beltran weren’t on the market, and the choices were Cuddyer or Cody Ross, the same people complaining about how horrible Cuddyer is and how wonderful Ross is would be singing Cuddyer’s praises and hammering Cody Ross.
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oh for sure, Cody vs Cuddy is a horse of a different color
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 3:24 PM MST up reply actions
not this guy
i still prefer ross to cuddyer right now, even with all of them on the market
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Now you're just fishing for a response
That’s like a 3 year old testing the boundaries of her parents to see when they crack.
I will hereafter choose not to pay any attention to what you say re Mr. Cuddyer.
by BostonTransplant on Dec 15, 2011 3:35 PM MST up reply actions
Should have been:
how horrible Cuddyer is and how wonderfulRossBeltran is would be singing Cuddyer’s praises and hammering Cody Ross.
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 15, 2011 3:26 PM MST up reply actions
Who's singing Cody Ross's praises?
Maybe I missed that.
I would have picked Cody Ross up off waivers in 2010, as an upgrade over Spilly, but I wouldn’t really want him now.
by Northsider1964 on Dec 15, 2011 3:26 PM MST up reply actions
Check the edit.
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 15, 2011 3:27 PM MST up reply actions
career .384 wOBA vs LHP
pair that in a platoon with smith’s .377 vs RHP? are you kidding?
arenado: it's Rockie for future
and our rotation is still weak
and we still have holes at 2B and 3B
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
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our rotation is not going to be strong almost regardless of what we do
and as for 2B and 3B, we have like half the roster capable of playing those positions… something will work out. better to focus on something we know we can upgrade
arenado: it's Rockie for future
???????
???
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 15, 2011 3:34 PM MST up reply actions
Herrera is the Answer!
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 15, 2011 3:35 PM MST up reply actions
Lopez forever, Nelson never!
Die-hard Rockies fan since 1993.
Poo-Bah of the San Diego Padres in the Purple Row OOTP League.
@Paul_Franz
My blerg
There's a plan!
“Something will work out.”
Wow. Genius.
by BostonTransplant on Dec 15, 2011 3:36 PM MST up reply actions
2012=2011!!!
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
no.
Resident Lesbian Bunblogger - PurpleRow
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
Video tips on posting links and images to Purple Row - Click Here -
The biggest problem
I have with Cuddyer is the price tag. He’s not a bad player, I just feel there are beter ways to spend that money.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 15, 2011 3:27 PM MST up reply actions
and Cuddyer isn't the last move
His signing is the catalyst towards at least one other move.
I don’t like the money either, but it’s not a gross overpay and leads to other improvements.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
nuclear weapons, good idea, gotta keep up with the ARMS RACE
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 3:29 PM MST up reply actions
This isn't everyone.
Just some folks who are seriously bashing Cuddyer like he’s washed-up garbage and praising Beltran as the second coming of Willie Mays.
It’s getting a bit silly.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 15, 2011 3:30 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
My Motto Is: Why get silly when you could just have Spilly?
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 3:31 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
whatever
i can’t do this anymore
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Hey I know how to fix it
UGGLA
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Yep.
I like the player and the upgrade, the pricetag just don’t sit too well with me.
If this does go down, I’ll reserve total judgement until the offseason moves are complete.
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 15, 2011 3:31 PM MST up reply actions
Such as?
What are those “better ways” that seem to be eluding everyone? Signing Edwin Jackson?
by BostonTransplant on Dec 15, 2011 3:37 PM MST up reply actions
No, the people here would be talking about Andruw Jones and Jonny Gomes
Problem is, DOD seems to have a one way ticket to Atlanta/Cincinnati in Smith in mind.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
marcus thames!
arenado: it's Rockie for future
I think we should sign Cuddyer
and with the money saved go after Youk.
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now hes a man, or does he have jv intangibles? imconfused
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 15, 2011 3:32 PM MST up reply actions
.
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
by Gasstation1 on Dec 15, 2011 3:48 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
JFK's Quote of the Day:
“Some things are meant to be and if it was, you will know it.” ~Alex Rodriguez
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
Found this at MLBTR
Thought it was funny:
Can switching to geice really save you 15% or more on car insurance? Does Dan O Dowd make horrible deals?
D’OD: ( shown on the phone) So we will give you Todd Helton, Troy Tulowitzki, Carlos Gonzalez, Wilin Rosario, Drew Pomeranz, Jordan Pacheco, Nolan Arrenado, and Chad Bettis, and in exchange we want a player to be named later and cash considerations.
four second pause
D’OD:No sir, I assure that this is not a joke, we are very serious about this proposition partially because we need to clear some salary……………..Deal? Great, thanks so much
Geico. 15 minutes can save 15% or more on car insurance
It's Jim Tracy's Fault.
We'll be laughing all the way to the bank
When we have Cuddyer or Beltran and not Ian Stewart
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 15, 2011 4:59 PM MST up reply actions
no
"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"
Luftfeuchtigkeitsregler über alles.
by The Lodo Magic Man on Dec 15, 2011 5:14 PM MST up reply actions
Screw it lets sign Terrel Owens to Okay CF and infield backup
and be done with this mess already. I’m pretty sure every side of the Cuddyer argument has been hashed over at this point. I won’t be happy if we end up with Cuddyer, but as long as the Contract is under 30 mil I can live with it.
Supporting efforts to create a genetic splice of Jonathan Herrera and Troy Tulowitzki since 2011.
The NewNugs 2011 - Officially back on the Bandwagon
I <3 Johnson
That should have said "play" instead of "Okay"... dunno what happened there
Supporting efforts to create a genetic splice of Jonathan Herrera and Troy Tulowitzki since 2011.
The NewNugs 2011 - Officially back on the Bandwagon
I <3 Johnson
by SurfaceThought on Dec 15, 2011 5:26 PM MST up reply actions
Well, he might play okay...
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 15, 2011 9:12 PM MST up reply actions
Yawn.
I want a conclusion to this Cuddyer nonsense. The longer we wait, the less I think he actually wants to come to Colorado.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 15, 2011 5:42 PM MST via mobile reply actions
Boy, can I relate!
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
...... Perhaps?
Lol. I’m sure he doesn’t know at this point. I think he has a couple of destinations he’d rather be than Colorado, and is just waiting for word on those places.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 15, 2011 5:47 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
He and his wife just had twins
Dunno how many of you have been there, but I can tell you the LAST thing he or she wants to do right now is make a major life move decision.
by BostonTransplant on Dec 15, 2011 6:02 PM MST up reply actions
I blame him.
He’s a right bastard that guy.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 15, 2011 6:16 PM MST up reply actions
In fact,
Cuddyer might be the worst person in the world.
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 15, 2011 6:27 PM MST up reply actions
Outside of State College, at least...
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 15, 2011 9:43 PM MST up reply actions
Oh well this makes sense as to why he's taking his time deciding
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
On the other hand
He did turn down what seemed like a perfectly nice offer to stay right where they were and not have to worry about it anymore. So, I dunno.
by BostonTransplant on Dec 15, 2011 6:25 PM MST up reply actions
Renck is a teast
Will be posting Cuddyer update soon.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
LOL make that *tease
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Well.
If he just posted the update, it was quite a letdown.
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com
Leading the Astros into the Future. Go, Go Astros!
by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 15, 2011 6:28 PM MST up reply actions
I think that was a response to a question
Suspect the FO told him to stay by his computer for some kind of news …
by BostonTransplant on Dec 15, 2011 6:31 PM MST up reply actions
I think he's probably working on a blog post.
He did the same kind of thing yesterday, even though there wasn’t really anything new.
Well, Mr. Powers certainly thinks signing Cuddyer is a good idea
(Not sure I completely agree with how positive he comes off but it’s interesting anyway)
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 15, 2011 5:58 PM MST reply actions
Hehe
Yeah, I probably made him sound more important than he is :-)
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 15, 2011 6:09 PM MST up reply actions
What was the main reason Powers wants Cuddyer back?
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 15, 2011 6:01 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Basically he's a pro's pro
Team first, lots of community service, quiet leadership, hard work, and (probably this is why DoD loves him) absolutely no sense of entitlement.
Plus he’s a damn fine hitter.
by BostonTransplant on Dec 15, 2011 6:08 PM MST up reply actions
Exactly.
There was little about Cuddyer’s ABILITY in that article, too much about his character.
It’s no wonder Dan is pushing so hard for Cuddyer. He LOVES these high character guys….
Irritating.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 15, 2011 6:11 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
I really don't think character is the only reason they want Cuddyer.
And it was pretty clear to me that there were issues on the team last year. (Not saying Cuddyer is the only guy that could help that, just saying I don’t think there’s anything wrong with DOD considering that aspect.)
I didn't say character is the only reason
But I firmly believe its the #1 reason.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 15, 2011 6:14 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Pretty much what Boston Transplant said
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 15, 2011 6:09 PM MST up reply actions
Yep.
Yesterday I said the #1 reason the Rox want Cuddyer is because of his character.
I don’t think I’m wrong about that either. And I don’t necessarily agree with that choice
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 15, 2011 6:12 PM MST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Interesting tidbit, in addition ...
He made over $10m last year. So Twins offered him a pay cut (and we’ll probably do the same). That didn’t sound quite right though. Wonder if it’s true.
by BostonTransplant on Dec 15, 2011 6:21 PM MST up reply actions
John Hayman just said on MLBN that the Rockies are very interested in Carlos Beltran and that
one team (probably either the Cards, Rockies, or Jays) have an offer on the table that’s north of $10 million a year.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 15, 2011 6:12 PM MST reply actions
I love ambiguously specific blanket statements.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
That's all we seem to have at the moment
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 15, 2011 6:26 PM MST up reply actions
Those ambiguous blankets are keeping me warm
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Well, "north of $10 million a year"
Is kind of obvious. Who among that group WOULDN’T go that far? I wonder if anyone has an offer north of $13 or $14 …
Good. Looks like the end game is here. DoD is putting pressure on Cuddyer and maybe even hell might freeze over and we get Beltran. Fingers crossed!
by BostonTransplant on Dec 15, 2011 6:17 PM MST up reply actions
Exactly
anybody who hasn’t put over $10 million a year on the table doesn’t really want Beltran.
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 15, 2011 9:10 PM MST up reply actions
Renck update but note the tweeter
TroyRenck Troy Renck, Rockies
Not yet. … Still waiting for decision RT @J_DUB_78: @TroyRenck Did the Rox get Cuddyer yet?
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Not the same.
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com
Leading the Astros into the Future. Go, Go Astros!
by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 15, 2011 6:30 PM MST up reply actions
Ahh....well
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
I have not met the J_Dub, but, according to the legends of the J-Dub that I have heard, that guy is not him.
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com
Leading the Astros into the Future. Go, Go Astros!
by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 15, 2011 6:36 PM MST up reply actions
Oh I didn't even look at that person's page. So I trust you on this poinst
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
I checked because I thought the same as you.
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com
Leading the Astros into the Future. Go, Go Astros!
by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 15, 2011 6:42 PM MST up reply actions
Hey, what happened to that guy, anyway?
Although, I’d be lying if I didn’t say I’m happy to not be seeing Phil Rivers nasty mug all over purple row
Supporting efforts to create a genetic splice of Jonathan Herrera and Troy Tulowitzki since 2011.
The NewNugs 2011 - Officially back on the Bandwagon
I <3 Johnson
by SurfaceThought on Dec 15, 2011 7:30 PM MST up reply actions
looking for thoughts
rather you want him or not how likely do you think it is the Rockies sign Cuddyer by the end of the weekend?
Of note:
There was no resolution or a deadline. However, the Rockies have extended themselves as far as they will go — believed to be three years, $27-million _ in attempt to land their first big-ticket free agent since 2000.
“It’s out of my hands. It’s an agent-player decision,” general manger Dan O’Dowd said Thursday.
The Rockies have interest in outfielder Carlos Beltran, but only on a smaller commitment. Given Beltran’s knee issues, last year notwithstanding, they would be looking to land him on a one-year deal with an option.
If this is true, we are not getting Beltran.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 15, 2011 7:08 PM MST up reply actions
...people want Beltran on a 3 year deal?
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
I'm betting someone goes two years guaranteed
Probably even two years with a thrid year option.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 15, 2011 7:13 PM MST up reply actions
I don't want to be that team.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Fortunately for you
You’ll probably get your way
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 15, 2011 7:17 PM MST up reply actions
You would give Beltran 3 guaranteed years?
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
I doubt that's was RIRF was trying to say
Out of all the fans of signing Beltran, I doubt very few would advocate that. I would consider a two year with a club option, if the price was right (very close to 10 mil a year)
Supporting efforts to create a genetic splice of Jonathan Herrera and Troy Tulowitzki since 2011.
The NewNugs 2011 - Officially back on the Bandwagon
I <3 Johnson
by SurfaceThought on Dec 15, 2011 7:22 PM MST up reply actions
No
But I’d certainly think strongly about two years – maybe even two years with an option.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 15, 2011 7:25 PM MST up reply actions
Although, I bet the buyout would be gigantic if there were an option
Supporting efforts to create a genetic splice of Jonathan Herrera and Troy Tulowitzki since 2011.
The NewNugs 2011 - Officially back on the Bandwagon
I <3 Johnson
by SurfaceThought on Dec 15, 2011 7:27 PM MST up reply actions
It's really hard to say with a player like Beltran.
I think you’re probably right that he eventually gets a 2 year contract, but it’s going to have to be team a bit more desperate for OF help than we’ve seen thus far. I can’t figure out who that would be. Maybe the Mariners? They’re about it.
Exact same thought ran through my mind.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 15, 2011 7:16 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Doubt 27 mil is enough to get Cuddyer
And no way 1 year deal gets us beltran. Soooooo no FA acquisition
President of Baseball Operations for the PRMLB Atlanta Braves
Yech
I sort of just came to this conclusion. I think Theres a decent but not very large chance Cuddyer goes for the deal. I think he should, from any loogical perspective, now that Willigham has been signed. But if he thinks hes worth 35 mil, its hard to say
And, yeah, someone is going to be willing to give Beltran two years.
Supporting efforts to create a genetic splice of Jonathan Herrera and Troy Tulowitzki since 2011.
The NewNugs 2011 - Officially back on the Bandwagon
I <3 Johnson
by SurfaceThought on Dec 15, 2011 7:20 PM MST up reply actions
I'm guessing (and it's just a guess)
That Cuddyer is waiting to see what happens with Rollins and Philly. If Rollins doesn’t sign there, then there’s more money left for them to possibly make a run at Cuddyer – but Cuddyer can’t get a firm answer on that from Philadelphia becasue Rollins hasn’t made up his mind yet.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 15, 2011 7:23 PM MST reply actions
How much would Rollins go for on the FA market
I know he is a prototypical over-values sort of player, and I’m sure that he will end up getting more than he deserves.
But all that being said, I would totally have Rollins play 2B for the Rox…
but, yeah, no way that happens. There’s a very good chance both that he would not want to switch positions, and that he wouldn’t want to play in Colorado, even for a good asking price
Supporting efforts to create a genetic splice of Jonathan Herrera and Troy Tulowitzki since 2011.
The NewNugs 2011 - Officially back on the Bandwagon
I <3 Johnson
by SurfaceThought on Dec 15, 2011 7:26 PM MST up reply actions
Knowing Rollins
He probably thinks he’s going for more than he’s worth but so far I have not heard much interest (although there may be some mystery teams). The Giants make some sense but it appears as though they don’t have too much to spend due to the amount of money they still have tied up in the horrendous Zito and Rowand contracts.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 15, 2011 7:35 PM MST up reply actions
Hell
I’ll take almost 20 HR and almost 30 SB from keystone any-day…
Supporting efforts to create a genetic splice of Jonathan Herrera and Troy Tulowitzki since 2011.
The NewNugs 2011 - Officially back on the Bandwagon
I <3 Johnson
by SurfaceThought on Dec 15, 2011 7:44 PM MST up reply actions
My own guess is that it has more to do with Fielder and Seattle,
for a similar, but I’m also guessing mistake reason. I don’t think the Mariners go over 3/$27 million for Cuddyer.
If he's waiting for Fielder this could take ages
Since Boras will probably wait for a while on him.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 15, 2011 7:36 PM MST up reply actions
Boras has said that Fielder will make his decision by the end of the year,
so you can give whatever value you put on his word to that.
Renck tweet
TroyRenck Troy Renck, Rockies
Update: Momentum building for Rockies to land Cuddyer. They are the favorite: bit.ly/vASQCH
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
How is momentum building
Nothing has changed in a week. The same damn offer has been out there, and the same news of us waiting on him. he is either going to accept or decline. This is driving me insane.
Screw it, No more. Someone tell me when April starts.
Probably behind the scenes momentum.
Wasn’t there something a few days ago about a decision likely coming from him at the end of the week? Or am I mixing that up with someone else?
I don't know
I usually take rumors like these with grains of salt, as 99% of actual happenings don’t get disclosed. But a rumor like this which stagnates, it tends to never come true. it’s like the M. Young stuff we heard last year. It was a rumor for almost a month. So many expected it to happen, and it never materialized.
Just my feeling right now.
I would cite all how long the Melo being traded rumors
lasted for months and months. And in the end he was traded. So I’m not sure length of rumors means much.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Holliday too for that matter.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
ubaldo
arenado: it's Rockie for future
My point on these
They were non-specific rumors of a player being moved. At this point, we know every fact there is to know. The teams involved, and a very close number to what the actual offer is. It has been known for quite some time. it seems to me it’s stagnated to the point of not going to happen,
Actually in Melo's case
the rumors pretty much were specific to which teams would be involved, it was down to the Nets or the Knicks and that went on for months, and even some of the players too. I’m just saying the stagnation doesn’t necessarily mean it’s dead.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
I get the sense the Rox are waiting on Cuddyer
he looked around, saw that no one else was going above 27 million and is leaning towards taking it. There was no new information in that period of waiting to see what other teams offered.
President of Baseball Operations for the PRMLB Atlanta Braves
You may get that sense
because it’s been reported for a week. At this point, we all know the Rockies are waiting. That has been reported. We know the Rockies offered that, we have known for a week. Whats the holdup?
And again
Let me state. This is a general feeling I get. I just don’t see Cuddyer or Beltran happening. Perhaps I’m just a downer, but I don’t see the team landing either, despite the interest. it seems Dan likes the players, but has no idea that it takes quite a bit to land these players, Just my perception based on her-say from the writers. but, i could, and have, been wrong.
After March
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
this has been one slow boil
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PRMLB Marlins
by Andrew Martin on Dec 15, 2011 8:49 PM MST up reply actions
All the momentum of a Jamie Moyer fastball
"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"
Luftfeuchtigkeitsregler über alles.
by The Lodo Magic Man on Dec 15, 2011 9:26 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
All the momentum of a Vincente Padilla Eephus
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2T4NAJQMmE
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Padilla's Eephus has been clocked at 40 MPH
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Like Edgar Martinez running
President of Baseball Operations for the PRMLB Atlanta Braves
ACQUIRE ALL THE LATIN AMERICAN ARMS
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Spring Training in the DR
Looks great
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
Nice to be on the right side of the end of period goals this time...
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 15, 2011 10:11 PM MST up reply actions
I know.
Not that San Jose is doing well, but beating the Sharks in a home and home series is still quite exciting.
I'm almost impressed with that choke job.
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PRMLB Marlins
by Andrew Martin on Dec 15, 2011 11:05 PM MST via iPhone app up reply actions
Impressive in a weird way, I guess...
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 15, 2011 11:33 PM MST up reply actions
Renck burning the midnight oil
TroyRenck Troy Renck, Rockies
Signs pointing strongly toward Rockies getting Cuddyer. But nothing concrete yet.
Jason Giambi for player-manager in 2012!
How the world will end in 2012: George of the Roses builds a Machine that Pommels everyone with La Violencia during Whiteouts.
Minneapolis reporter saying Twins still have an offer on the table
but that the Rockies have offered a couple million more (3/$27 million)
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 15, 2011 11:43 PM MST up reply actions
What the deuce
There’s no way that there’s been any development in the last couple of hours, Renck is just trolling at this point
Supporting efforts to create a genetic splice of Jonathan Herrera and Troy Tulowitzki since 2011.
The NewNugs 2011 - Officially back on the Bandwagon
I <3 Johnson
by SurfaceThought on Dec 16, 2011 12:19 AM MST up reply actions
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