Friday Rockpile: 2011 Free Agency - Go Big or Go Home
by Andrew Martin on Dec 16, 2011 7:49 AM MST
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PrintThis past week has been absolutely tumultuous. Do we bring in Michael Cuddyer? Is Carlos Beltran a realistic option? Can Seth Smith be the guy we want him to be if we straight platoon him? Is this all a waste of time and money? What is the best course of action for the Rockies to take?
I'm seeing this working on 2 different extremes: do nothing and store up for next offseason, or just throw our chips in the middle and push this as far as we can this offseason. Just making one move, like acquiring Cuddyer and not doing anything more is obviously not enough. On that note, just acquiring Beltran wouldn't be enough either. Trading for Prado wouldn't be enough. Signing Andruw Jones or trading for Jonny Gomes to platoon with Smith wouldn't be enough. Adding just one bat isn't going to be enough to take a semi-building 2012 and turning it into a contenting team.
In saying that, I don't think that the Rockies are going to just land Cuddyer or whoever and then call it quits. They know their own weaknesses, they're not going to sit pat. They still have their eyes on Hiroki Kuroda, possibly Joe Saunders, and various trade targets. But here's the thing: I don't see a way for the Rockies to keep their prospect depth AND pick up all of the necessary pieces to make 2012 a success.
So option 1 is the safe and fiscally "sound" option: sign a few strong, competent glovemen to fill in the holes on the team, save the Cuddyer money and go sign someone in the 2012 offseason. Maybe David Wright, Kevin Youkilis, Brandon Phillips or Howie Kendrick? Someone like that. This way, you support the young pitching with the best defense possible, you might be surprised by Josh Rutledge and Nolan Arenado, who knows what could happen. But it would be the following season that anything of interest REALLY happened.
Or, you go for absolute broke.
Take the Brewers for example. They didn't have the best farm on earth, but they had enough prospects near the surface that they were able to make packages to acquire both Zack Greinke AND Shaun Marcum. That took them to the NLCS. Then they went and signed Aramis Ramirez. The downside for them is that it cost them Brett Lawrie, among other top-tier prospects. Thing is, despite a loss to the Cardinals in the NLCS, the Brewers are still poised to take that division in 2012.
That plan could've fallen SQUARELY on its face. Greinke could've turned back into a pumpkin. Marcum could've gotten hurt. All sorts of other things could've gone very wrong, and Lawrie is looking to be an absolute stud over in Toronto. The Brewers figured they had a shot to make some big acquisitions and make that one big push before they lost Prince Fielder to Free Agency, so they went for it, and it totally paid off.
After a season like 2011, the Rockies could use a little calculated chaos. I don't mean that they should go sign a whole pile of absolutely stupid players just to say they signed somebody. But if we're set on Cuddyer, try this:
Play Cuddyer at 3B. I don't like it, not one bit, but I do recall that the starting 3B for the NL representative in the 2007 World Series was none other than Garrett Atkins.
Bring in a defensive replacement for Cuddyer, a la Jamey Carroll to Atkins in 2007.
Bring in a platoon partner for Seth Smith, such as Andruw Jones. OR we go for the Andrew Fantasy Option, which involves trading Seth Smith for some sort of excellent return (see below) and bringing in Beltran as well as Cuddyer. (Hey, if we're gonna spend money, let's get ALL the good players!)
Perform some sort of voodoo and throw every Tim Wheeler caliber player/prospect we have (and possibly Seth Smith as well) at Atlanta until they HAVE to give us Martin Prado. (Yes, I'm completely aware that this part of the plan is totally full of holes.)
If we have any top prospect talent left that we can move, maybe go see if we can land Anibal Sanchez or John Danks to fill out the rotation.
Opening Day:
2B Martin Prado
3B Michael Cuddyer
1B Todd Helton
RF Seth Smith/Andruw Jones (depending on the opposing pitcher)
C Ramon Hernandez (because they bat 8th. We learned that over the past year or so.)
P
Pipe dream? Absolutely. Feasible? No, not really. Realistic? Not even close. Budget breaking? Oh my, yes.
But here's ultimately how I see it: If the Rockies can either put out a really exciting team like the lineup above (and maybe Beltran), OR if the Rockies put out a fundamentally sound, hard working, competent team, fans will be at least SOMEWHAT satisfied with the season.
Really, isn't that what we want? To know that they tried their hearts out, played the best they could, win or lose, DL and health, till Boras do we part?
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Oh, and go read F26's new piece
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Sounds as though the Blue Jays have the highest bid in the Yu Darvish sweepstakes
That A.L. East is sure going to be fun next season
/Oh, and poor Orioles
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 16, 2011 8:02 AM MST reply actions
A Japanese/Iranian pitcher pitching in the Japanese leagues
Negotiating with a Canadian team in a primarily USA league.
It’s a small world after all.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 16, 2011 8:05 AM MST up reply actions
that is a lot of different currency going on there
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 16, 2011 8:07 AM MST up reply actions
Don't feel sorry for them
They have a big market and would have plenty of revenue if they ever got serious about winning.
Actually, it’s ok to feel sorry for the players and fans there, just not the people in charge.
I'll just leave this here (and crash the RP)
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 16, 2011 9:36 AM MST up reply actions 4 recs
I said last summer I loved the trades the Brewers made
Even if they overpaid, and even if Lawrie and Lorenzo Cain end up doing big things someday. You have to overpay to get starting pitching, it’s just a fact of life. But flags fly forever and the Brewers have one now – not the NL pennant they probably should have won, but at least a division flag. I’d like to get a glimpse of one of those before I die.
not to mention prospects sometimes don’t always turn into all stars
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 16, 2011 8:26 AM MST up reply actions
I did as well
and while I don’t advocate doing the same here, I wouldn’t hate it if it happened.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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Me either
I think our window is going to get a lot more interesting with the Dodgers ownership situation. I’m not saying it’s going to close earlier, it’s just going to look… like a Salvador Dali window. Things will be different. Hence, spending a boatload of money right now wouldn’t peeve me too much.
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 16, 2011 9:42 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm reccing this for a Dali reference in a baseball blog
Because that is kind of awesome. My greatest fear is that we’ll end up more Picasso
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If that happens I may just cut off my own ear..
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From Heyman
cuddyer is in agreement with #rockies
Let’s watch Purple Row break now.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
Who?
I’ve not heard of this guy.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 16, 2011 8:28 AM MST up reply actions
OH SNAP!
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
Expect Cuddyer answer today
Troy Renck of the Denver Post reports that “all signs are pointing” to the Rockies landing Michael Cuddyer and they hope to have the signing wrapped up on Friday.
The Rockies became the heavy favorites to land the coveted free agent outfielder once Josh Willingham signed with the Twins. Previous reports have indicated that Colorado has offered Cuddyer a three-year, $27 million contract. The 32-year-old corner outfielder batted .284/.346/.459 with 20 home runs and 70 RBI over 584 plate appearances this past year for the Twins.
Look … I have been on the negative side of the whole Cuddyer thing. But my main issue with him is money and negative defensive value, which substracts substantially from the positive in his bat. If we get Cuddyer for 3/$27 I won’t complain too much. Any higher and I think it becomes an overpay.
I have seen arguments on here that say “So what if we overpay a few million?” If we thought we were really in it this year,k I can kind of see that argument, but if it makes it less likely we can do another deal (Prado, anyone really) then it is that much less palatable.
I agree, btw, with taking any and all of those prospects who significantly increased their stock last season (save Arenado) and seeing what they might bring. I am speaking to the Wheelers/Cabrerras of the system).
Agreed.
If Cuddy was coming in to be Seth Smith’s platoon partner at a few million a year, I’d be very happy with this.
You do realize there is no way in hell you would get a player as good as Michael Cuddyer for ‘a few million a year’ to get 25% of the at-bats as a platoon partner, right?
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
You could get someone who has performed as well
in that 25% as Cuddyer, for a few million. (see Gomes Jonny)
sound the sirens
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
get in the bomb shelter
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 16, 2011 8:38 AM MST up reply actions
So I hear we are interested in Cuddyer.
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As long as we don't move Matt Holliday, the team has a shot still.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 16, 2011 8:46 AM MST up reply actions
I hear we're going to make a big move...
The rumour is Bruce Hurst.
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
I'm still waiting to see what Heathcliff Slocumb has to offer.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 16, 2011 8:56 AM MST up reply actions
Just as long as we don't give up Brad Ausmus to get him...
I like the cut of his jib. I think he’s management material someday.
should've tried for Youk.
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by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 16, 2011 8:39 AM MST up reply actions
I am thinking the Sox aren't shopping him or we would hear more Buzz
With Lowrie gone that would leave them with Mike Aviles as their every day 3B, I am betting they don’t do that.
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Greatest Cuddyer Tweet so far:
AktanE Aktan E
Cuddyer hasn’t been called a #trader yet. All the stupid people must be sleeping.
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With Cuddyer vs. Beltran now a moot point, can we move onto the Seth Smith Trade Wars now?
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
Lets Take a Gamble on This Guy
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
This dude obviously brings plus intangibles
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
card counting is a key attribute
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 16, 2011 8:40 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
unless it is a magic trick
and you are picking a card, any card.
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Gimme all yer Jacks!
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
More Heyman.
@JonHeymanCBS: cuddyer will be the michael young rockies missed out on last winter. all around plus.
I know there are people who aren’t going to like the intangible factors at work in this deal… but I kind of do. Even understanding that it flies in the face of most sabermetric understanding.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
me too...
but I’ve always been on board with the Cuddyer boat. It will be interesting if anybody changes their mind now that it’s actually happening.
of course most ppl will, he is a Rockie so YOU HAVE to like everybody on the Rockies, you cant hate on any Rockies
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 16, 2011 8:41 AM MST up reply actions
Except
when hate=love.
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hahahhaha
Johnny H, experienced some hate yesterday
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 16, 2011 8:42 AM MST up reply actions
There are aspects of the Cuddyer signing that I like
Most notably that he’ll provide 500 at bats that’ll prove significantly better than some of the garbage the Rockies rolled out last season (and I’ll try to focus on that now), but this move still leaves something to be desired for a team that lost 89 games last season. It’s a move you make when you need something to push you over the top, not when you need to climb an entire mountain. I realize that this move is not an end point and that there will be more to come, but a swing for the fences deal like Beltran would have been my preference.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 16, 2011 8:50 AM MST up reply actions
Meh.
Beltran is probably going to get silly money.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 16, 2011 8:52 AM MST up reply actions
And .... maybe not.
Danny Knobler of CBSSports.com reports that Carlos Beltran has at least one offer on the table for $10 million per season.
The Rockies are now out of the Beltran sweepstakes after signing Michael Cuddyer, and the Blue Jays would surely be out if they sign Yu Darvish. That could leave the Cardinals as the favorites for the 34-year-old outfielder, though we can’t count out the Red Sox. Beltran batted .300 with a .910 OPS and 22 home runs in 142 games this past year with the Mets and Giants.
Are they truly out of the sweeps?
Any confirmatin on status on the Rox and Beltran?
by Real Perspective on Dec 16, 2011 10:20 AM MST up reply actions
While I do not support this deal
If we were to give a 3 year to any of the outfielders I am glad it was Cuddyer instead of Beltran (or Willingham).
Ideally, I’d have liked the Rockies to grab Beltran by giving him the highest annual salary for one season. Never thought that was realistic, but that was the only approach I liked for Beltran personally.
It all flies in the face if people
who don’t understand what Sabermetrics is about. The stats tell us that Cuddyer is going to produce roughly the same at the plate as a Smith/Good Bat platoon. That doesn’t rule out that Cuddyer can still contribute in other ways to the club. It just means that we’re paying for those “other ways.”
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 16, 2011 8:42 AM MST up reply actions
*It ONLY flies
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 16, 2011 8:42 AM MST up reply actions
HOW MANY RINGS DOES CUDDYER HAVE HUH
COUNT THEM 0 THAT’S RIGHT F26 WITH YOUR SCRAPTANGIBLES AND HUSTLECCOUNTABILITY
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 16, 2011 8:47 AM MST up reply actions
Does that sound like the kind of rationale I'd ever use in valuing a player?
Count the rings?
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 16, 2011 8:49 AM MST up reply actions
I'm actually not that pissed. I've moved to the next stage.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 16, 2011 8:49 AM MST up reply actions
Gentle sobbbing?
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 16, 2011 8:50 AM MST up reply actions
That doesn't sound good
1. SHOCK & DENIAL-
2. PAIN & GUILT-
3. ANGER & BARGAINING-
4. “DEPRESSION”, REFLECTION, LONELINESS-
5. THE UPWARD TURN-
6. RECONSTRUCTION & WORKING THROUGH-
7. ACCEPTANCE & HOPE-
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 16, 2011 8:54 AM MST up reply actions
eeeyep.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 16, 2011 8:55 AM MST up reply actions
POW!
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 16, 2011 8:51 AM MST up reply actions
About time for something to happen.
Now lets see What Dan can get for Smith. And I’m interested in seeing what will happen to Beltran. I hope I don’t have to write a lot of told ya so’s next year.
To Clarify
I do like the idea of signing Cuddyer, especially at this price. I just liked the idea of Beltran even more.
Lets sign cuddyer and just keep smith and do a platoon
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 16, 2011 8:42 AM MST up reply actions
oh thats cheap
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 16, 2011 8:45 AM MST up reply actions
Too bad DOD has really soured on Smith
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
I just think he is being realistic with this being the peak of Smith's trade value going forward
if this is the precursor of a Prado/Volquez trade I am fully on board. I would have loved Beltran but as a health risk I would be way concerned.
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
I really think trying to package Smith in a deal where the Rockies acquire Volquez and a 3rd baseman makes sense
We keep Volquez and package the 3rd baseman and an outfielder for Prado.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
Smith has been dead to us for a long time.
In my mind, at least since that post-Ubaldo conference call.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 16, 2011 8:44 AM MST up reply actions
Or just keep Smith as your primary PH weapon
He’s not expensive and he does, you know, actually get some late-inning pinch-hits. There’s no wolf-howling or tattoos involved, but I like the results a lot better than what we’ve seen recently.
I’m fine with trading Smith if there’s a good return, but the guy has proven value as a bench player.
by Northsider1964 on Dec 16, 2011 8:48 AM MST up reply actions
It's all about asset management
he has trade value, which will provide more to us then him on the bench.
Agree with that
I’m just saying the return needs to be pretty good, because Smith isn’t your run-of-the-mill PH. It’s a role in which he’s excelled.
by Northsider1964 on Dec 16, 2011 8:58 AM MST up reply actions
Provided they get him a good number of reps in RF against Righties and don't JUST use him as the PH extraordinaire.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 16, 2011 9:04 AM MST up reply actions
Giambi is our bench LHH no way we keep both, esp with Colvin on the team
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Well then that's settled
When you have a sub-.200 PH with a boatload of strikeouts who can’t play the field or run the bases, why would you even entertain the idea of having someone different on the bench?
by Northsider1964 on Dec 16, 2011 12:12 PM MST up reply actions
@JonHeymanCBS: cuddyer gets 31.5M over 3 years from colorado.
No comment.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
HOLY SHI*#$$(@&*#&$
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 16, 2011 8:44 AM MST up reply actions
10.5 mill a year?
Uck.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
It's an overpay to be sure
But I’ve guessed from the beginning that it’d end up being 10+/year.
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
you were right.
I’m guessing that the Rockies bid against themselves at the end just to get it done.
If you are okay with it at 3/27 you kind of have to be okay with it at 31.5
1.5 Million a year isn’t going to make or break this team.
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
I was thinking It’d be closer to 3/29 really.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 16, 2011 8:48 AM MST up reply actions
Mmm
3/$28.75 was the sweet spot for me
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 16, 2011 10:00 AM MST up reply actions
$1.5 million is almost the cost of 4 of our starting pitchers
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 16, 2011 8:48 AM MST up reply actions
You will do as you are told!
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
True if this is the guy you really want and that is what it takes
Cuddy isn’t Amazing but he is an above average bat, something we are in need of. I would have preferred Willingham, but I am not going to flip out over paying 1.5 AAV more than I wanted us to.
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
I wish I wasn't
I think YOU are right about the against-self bidding at the end here. I think DOD was just too scared to be left out in the cold at the end.
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
Also, I think he overpaid to get this done because he anxious to start working on the subsequent moves
Assuming that resolving the Cuddyer issue was a prerequsite for a complementary move (trading Smith being the obvious one), then the overpay might have been a calcuated move by DOD.
Say it costs an extra few million dollars over the next few years to gaurantee a deal for Prado/Jurgins/Scutaro/whoever can be made before that window of opportunity closes?
I might be overthinking this and/or giving DOD too much credit, but it’s at least possible that this is the case. If so, if the next move is getting a difference-maker like Prado or Jurrgins as part of a Smith trade, and an extra $1 or so a year to Cuddyer was part of the price, I can get on board with that.
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
That extra few million ...
Is money that can’t be spent on other valuable pieces whether acquired through trade or otherwise. Anyone who wants to defend that Cuddyer is worth and extra $3mil/season over Willingham … I’m listening.
I was theorizing that the extra money might buy opportunity in this case, not an additional/better player
I actually agree with you in a Willingham vs. Cuddyer comparison (see my earlier post below).
I liked Willingham more than Cuddyer even if the dollars were the same. The fact that Cuddyer ended up costing 3M+ a year more makes Willingham a slam dunk in my book.
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
I don't think anyone can complain that DOD shies away from people start bidding high now
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
$833,333 per year more than expected?
meh.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 16, 2011 8:46 AM MST up reply actions
It's about $1.5 million more per year than what I expected.
I understand that the club felt a need to put up or shut up on this, and I like the addition, but I think it does handcuff the team a bit on other moves.
I was thinking closer to $29 million. $27 million was way too low.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 16, 2011 8:49 AM MST up reply actions
Not really, there were only two bidders for him at this level.
Minnesota (3/$25M) and Colorado (3/$27M). The Rockies were worried about what would happen with Seattle and the loser(s) of the Cespedes derby, but at the moment, there just wasn’t a market for Cuddyer at that level.
It's logically sound...
Last weekend he was mulling the Twins offer vs. the Rockies offer. Only when the Twins signed Willingham did we learn of all this increased interest from other teams, despite no real change in the marketplace besides the subtraction of Willingham. One of these teams, the Reds, basically came out and said they weren’t going to match the Rockies bid. Any interest besides the Rockies at this level was likely to be a fiction at this point. I can’t say for sure that he was wrong about interest coming later when Cespedes’ and Fielder’s situation cleared, and neither could the Rockies, which is why they decided to go ahead and pay that “sign me now” premium on their previous best offer.
Yes.
But that’s why he wasn’t signing anything. He was betting on holding out for more money, and he probably would have gotten it… And then he did.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 16, 2011 8:53 AM MST up reply actions
I was disappointed by this.
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 16, 2011 8:48 AM MST up reply actions
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
/I know it’s basically $1.5M Per year more than what we probably should have
But still. FFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"
Luftfeuchtigkeitsregler über alles.
by The Lodo Magic Man on Dec 16, 2011 8:51 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
So pissed off right now
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 16, 2011 9:02 AM MST up reply actions 6 recs
hahaha thank you helped my Friday a ton
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 16, 2011 9:06 AM MST up reply actions
Guesses on Terms
I’m going 3/$29
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
I’m going to guess 3/$31.5
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 16, 2011 8:46 AM MST up reply actions
I’m going3/$29to guess we go Papelbon on everybodys a$$
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 16, 2011 8:46 AM MST up reply actions
Willingham for $7 Mil or Cuddyer for $10.5 mil?
Matchupzzzzzzzz=$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
Willingham in a heartbeat.
I liked Willingham better than Cuddyer even if the dollars were the same.
All that said, Cuddyer’s a great add. That shouldn’t get lost here.
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
And I would rather have Willingham than Cuddyer
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 16, 2011 9:04 AM MST up reply actions
I don't understand this
Can you give me the reader’s digest version?
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 16, 2011 9:06 AM MST up reply actions
Willingham's a better hitter in my mind who has played in pitcher parks his entire career.
I think Coors really would have brought out the best in him and given us three 30 HR power threats in a row in our lineup – To me that’s a tipping point that would have doen wonders for our offense. I realize Cuddyer brings other thing to the table but I liked Willingham better (by a little)
The idea that we are paying Cuddyer $10 million more in my mind is asinine!
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 16, 2011 9:13 AM MST up reply actions
I agree
I think we ended up paying more for a lesser player (Cuddyer vs. Willingham). Even if the differences in production are marginal/debatable, the fact that Cuddyer ended up costing so much more makes it difficult for me to see how this makes sense.
But that’s not to say that adding Cuddyer isn’t still a positive. I’m not going to poop on getting one of the better FA’s avaialbe this year, even it its not the one I wanted most.
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
Being a Rockies/Twins fan I love this signing for the Rox
Target field was cruel to Cuddy. He should be great in the clubhouse and should provide some stability in the no. 5 hole in the lineup. Might have been a bit of an overpay, but he should perform (offensively) at Coors.
is it summer yet?
Ok, funny thing (to me)
I’m throwing up a quick front page post to officially document this
and I was ever so tempted to put the picture as Ty Wigginton
I won’t. It’s funny, but people will take it seriously.
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Just use Thinkkman's Cuddy from yesterday.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 16, 2011 8:54 AM MST up reply actions
I mean literally posting Cuddyer
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by Andrew Martin on Dec 16, 2011 8:55 AM MST up reply actions
Wondering who we will be playing in the first round of the playoffs now…likely the Braves or somebody coming to Coors
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
Who starts Game One?
Slowey or Chatwood? Or do you roll the dice with Schmidt?
by Northsider1964 on Dec 16, 2011 8:59 AM MST up reply actions
I’m thinking Sloweys slow fast ball could counter their “quick bats”
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 16, 2011 9:00 AM MST up reply actions
I really hope this doesn't mean we wait two weeks for Smith to get traded
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
Hopefully they had a deal in mind
Any signs of DOD showing planning is good in my mind.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
More than likely
yes. But who knows how long it will take to materialize. Could be a matter of hours, or could be February. But there will almost certainly be a related trade of Smith.
Think we could pry a guy like Nick Schmidy away from the Pads?
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
Ok So the Cuddyer deal
Yes it is a bit much, and yes there was other targets that might have been better. However, this is a positive step in the right direction. For years we would watch the Rockies spend around 10 Million a year on below average players at best. Hell just last year we spent 3.5 on Lopez and 4 on Wigginton.
It seems like O’Dowd is finally going to stop with the scrap heap type signings and go after 1 or 2 solid pieces. This is a step in the right direction, and I think Cuddyer becomes our Dante Bichette.
It's Jim Tracy's Fault.
He's a bit better defensively...
Won’t have the power…or sadly, the mullet.
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
It is good to see all of PR
is as cynical as I was two days ago.
Ok...
Cuddyer is not exactly the Birthday present I was hoping for today =/
by charismos on Dec 16, 2011 9:08 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
Cuddyer will hit 25 bombs and drive in 110 in 2012
its gonna be awesome.
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
yeah but Beltran would have hit 26 and driven in 111
;-)
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
I can see that.
I think hitting 5th in this lineup (or 6th, as Tracy is almost certain to do) and in this hitting environment will do a lot of good for him.
So if DOD offered well over asking...
How’d it take so long to get a deal done?
Garage sale browser: “Hey, how much for the toaster?”
Garage sale seller: “Five dollars.”
Garage sale browser: “Any chance you’ll take eight?”
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
by Since1993 on Dec 16, 2011 9:10 AM MST reply actions 5 recs
hahaha
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 16, 2011 9:27 AM MST up reply actions
Smith Platoon Partner
I’ve seen Andruw Jones mentioned – is he a viable defensive option for Coors Field? Last time I saw him he looked like he was Prince Fielder’s older brother.
His numbers have rebounded surprisingly in the last two years.
I didn’t realize it until I looked.
Cuddyer ...
Is the nouveau riche man’s Wigginton.
DOD was finally given some money to spend, and like the kid who gets his first paycheck, spends it on video games and candy instead of saving up for a new bike.
by Traindogger on Dec 16, 2011 9:22 AM MST reply actions 2 recs
Opulence...
I has it.
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
Oh goody ... Bowden thinks he's "special" in the clubhouse
JimBowdenESPNxm JIM BOWDEN
Rockies signing of Cuddyer to 3-year $31.5m deal a smart move to provide protection for Tulo & Cargo and add another spcl clubhouse presence
If clubhouse presence meant division titles
We’d be the *#&^ 21st Century version of the 1990s Atlanta Braves.
by Northsider1964 on Dec 16, 2011 9:31 AM MST up reply actions
IMO baseball is such a long season that the only clubhouse presence you can’t have is a negative one. Guys have to be loose. Its not like you can have a Tim Tebow type presence in baseball, it just doesn’t work that way
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 16, 2011 9:32 AM MST up reply actions
Guys definitely have to be loose
And if some of them can hit, field, run the bases and occasionally throw strikes, those are pluses as well. :)
by Northsider1964 on Dec 16, 2011 9:34 AM MST up reply actions
Did Jim Tracy rub off on the guy?
He used the word “special”.
64 today, 63 tomorrow is how many days remain until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
I think DOD was feeling the pressure
and wanted to make sure he didn’t come away empty handed
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
Fine, here’s my comment on the money – I’m only going to be bothered by it if the Rockies later on cry poor when pursuing another piece that could help the team.
And could we please stop with the ‘Cuddyer=Wigginton’ nonsense? They are not comparable.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
If Cuddy doesn't somehow pan out...
We won’t sign another free agent for ten years.*
*Hampton, Mike.
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
I’m only going to be bothered by it if the Rockies later on cry poor when pursuing another piece that could help the team.
This is exactly the issue though. Whether the Rockies actually cry poor or not at this point will not change the fact that they have sacraficed serious $ here that could have been put to better use elsewhere. (AND THEY HAVE TIED IT UP FOR 3 SEASONS)
I don’t mind spending money, but hell will freeze over before I’m happy wasting it – And considering that Willingham got $10.5 million less, I’d say the Rockies burned some serious cash here.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 16, 2011 9:34 AM MST up reply actions
Not concerned about all that
We got rid of Wiggy and Stewie, and now have a serious upgrade. This means the Rox can be contenders again (assuming they can pick up a decent SP as well.) That’s worth the dough.
Remember Todd’s back is wobbly, and we can’t expect Tulo and Cago to carry all the luggage in the lineup. This is a welcome addition!
by Real Perspective on Dec 16, 2011 10:27 AM MST up reply actions
I bet he gets some time there
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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really depends on if there is anyone else brought in to do so.
If the only 3B options are “internal,” I think we’ll be seeing a lot of him there.
bets on a Helton, Pacheco, Tulo, Cuddy infield? hrrrmmmmm.
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Dec 16, 2011 10:37 AM MST up reply actions
I wish
I had this saved somewhere – I tried to find it RIRF style the other day, but I couldn’t
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 16, 2011 10:42 AM MST up reply actions
tsk tsk
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
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Oh Muzia
I knew I could count on you! :-)
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 16, 2011 10:48 AM MST up reply actions
At least something I've done around here has staying power.
Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
A few thoughts
before I go to work for the day. I like the move as a whole, depending on what return we end up getting for Smith. If they can work out a trade to fill out the rotation or to add a quality 2/3B. It seems to me that Dan can do that.
I also like what Cuddyer does bring, and that is lineup stability. Now, granted, Jim Tracy may sabotage said stability. But with guys in and out of the lineup last year so often, it became obvious that we needed a stabilizing bat to hold it all together. I see Cuddyer as that bat. Hopefully we can get Prado too. That would go a long way to crating a consistent lineup which will hit every day, instead of pilling up runs one day, and going dormant for the rest of the week.
My concern though is that giving a “versatile” player like Cuddyer to Jim Tracy is like giving matches to an arsonist. To be frank, I hope he doesn’t fuck it up.
We still don't have a #2 hitter.
Once we get one, we’re good. Until then, there’s still a possibility for instability. This is especially the case if the plan ends up being that we are going to let one of the prospects try to figure it out.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Dec 16, 2011 9:47 AM MST up reply actions
I love the "matches" analogy re: Tracy
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
Will your last sentence...
be Jim Tracy’s epitaph?
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
Happy to have cuddyer
Count me in favor of this move, the extra money doesn’t bother me. Sure Beltran would have been nice but not if waiting for him eliminated any other upgrades O’Dowd has in mind this winter.
I have beat this drum before, but $1.5M is the kind of money O’Dowd has handed out to a bunch reclamation projects and has-beens in the past. The latest examples are Wiggington and Lopez, but it seems like every year there is a money-down-the-toilet signing by O’Dowd. I for one am glad we just took those extra $$ and put them toward an asset of real value.
I would like to take this time to Point out that we will now have devoted 1/2-2/3 of
the money Matt Holliday made in FA to Aaron Cook and Michael Cuddyer. I think we probably could have had Matt for 7/110 with significant defered money(he makes 15.1 with 2 million deferred interest free)
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Or all the happy memories of the Greg Smith era...
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 16, 2011 12:31 PM MST up reply actions
I hear Muzia crying somewhere
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
wow that's incredibly depressing to think about
arenado: it's Rockie for future
I'd personally rather have CarGo
Good hitting and he doesn’t get hit in the nuts with the ball with any regularity
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 16, 2011 4:29 PM MST up reply actions
Huston Street has a sad....
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Dec 16, 2011 4:31 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I loved Huston too
But in the back of my mind, all I could ever think about when he was on the mound was the 2009 DS.
by The Toddfather's Goatee on Dec 16, 2011 4:39 PM MST up reply actions
So I guess after all this we have a lineup like:
1. Dex – CF
2. ? – 2b
3. Cargo – LF
4. Tulo – SS
5. Cuddyer – RF
6. Helton – 1b
7. Hernandez – C
8. ?? – 3b
Not bad, we still have some huge questions about 2b and 3b, and Prado is looking really good. I would say that is a long shot though. I think 3-7 is very solid though. I’m a happy person today.
It's Jim Tracy's Fault.
Yankees have signed Matt Daley
If nobody mentioned it in the other thread
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"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
The Mattpen will Matter a little less now.
by Rox Girl on Dec 16, 2011 4:38 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I see it. what you did there. I do
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
On the other hand, the Matt puns won't be happening Daley anymore
Amiright?
Die-hard Rockies fan since 1993.
Poo-Bah of the San Diego Padres in the Purple Row OOTP League.
@Paul_Franz
My blerg
by EmersonCR on Dec 16, 2011 9:33 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Woah
I had no idea he was a free agent
Supporting efforts to create a genetic splice of Jonathan Herrera and Troy Tulowitzki since 2011.
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I <3 Johnson
by SurfaceThought on Dec 16, 2011 5:01 PM MST up reply actions
Yay! No boo...no YAY
Well crap, I’m happy he has a job…
:( Bye Matt. You were my favorite Matt :(
/sniff
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
According to Renck, Rox on Lidge.
Count me in on this.
@DylanZable
by CentralCaliRox on Dec 16, 2011 6:22 PM MST via mobile reply actions
yup
that’s got the potential to be a great signing, depending on $$$
arenado: it's Rockie for future
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