Braves 7, Rockies 4: Pitching, Defense, and Clutch-Hitting Fail the Rox Again
by Bryan Kilpatrick on Jul 18, 2011 10:10 PM MDT
in Rockies Game Wraps
Email
PrintA bizzare play in which Todd Helton lost a lob throw from Ty Wigginton in the sun with two outs and the bases loaded in the second inning kick-started yet another miserable night for the Rockies' defense and pitching staff as they lost their fifth consecutive game to the Braves (and third straight overall) by a score of 7-4.
After a shutdown first inning by Jason Hammel, the Rox put two aboard in the bottom half of the inning, but left with nothing to show for it as Seth Smith grounded out with runners on the corners. Then, in the top of the second, Atlanta loaded the bases on two groundball hits and a walk. After Alex Gonzalez lined into a double play, Hammel intentionally walked Nate McClouth to setup the force play with two outs and Derek Lowe coming up. Hammel induced a soft grounder off the bat of the Atlanta pitcher, but instead of taking the short play and, in turn, keeping the ball out of the sun, Wigginton lobbed it high over to Todd Helton at first, who immediately lost it in the sun. That allowed two runs to score, and the Braves would build on that lead in the coming innings.
The Rockies went away meekly in their half of the second and in the third, Freddie Freeman (this guy again?!) took Hammel deep to center with a runner on base to extend the lead to 4-0. A couple of batters later, Eric Hinske connected for a solo homer into the upper deck in right field to make it 5-0. Todd Helton's third-inning RBI single got the Rockies on the board, but the Braves got that run back against Hammel on an Alex Gonzalez RBI single that plated Hinske, who may not have scored if not for Carlos Gonzalez booting the ball in left field.
After Freeman picked up another RBI to make it 7-1, the Rockies started to rally just a bit. Four singles - three of which were of the bloop variety - helped the Rockies plate three runs in the bottom of the seventh as they chased Lowe and cut the lead to three. However, the magic would end there, as they were unable to add on to that total in the final two innings. Dexter Fowler walked with two outs in the eighth, but pinch-hitter Eliezer Alfonzo would hit a weak comebacker to end the inning. Helton would do the same in the ninth inning, but Troy Tulowitzki was unable to get a ball in play with a runner on base in the ninth inning for the second straight game, striking out (and looking rather bad in the process) to end the night.
Other than the one half inning, this game was not a whole lot of fun to watch. We did our part with the rally caps, at least...
Don't look now, but the Rockies are now double-digits back in the division. Even in mid-July, that spells big trouble.
More after the jump...
Good guys:
Troy Tulowitzki (despite another ugly ninth inning AB): 2-for-5, RBI
Todd Helton (despite the missed-catch error): 1-for-3, 2 RBI
Chris Iannetta: 2-for-4
Rex Brothers: IP, 2 K
Rafael Betancourt: IP, 3 K
Bad guys:
Jason Hammel: 5 IP, 6 R, 8 H, 3 BB, 1 K, 2 HR
Ty Wigginton: 0-for-4
Seth Smith: 1-for-4, 4 LOB (though he did hit a triple)
Jonathan Herrera: 0-for-1, bad-looking backwards K in a pinch-hit AB.
Roll Call: prettyinpurple, Maria M, SDcat09, Gr3yStreet, butterfly, Andrew T. Fisher, free7694, everever, Junction Rox, PetroCW, Roxman4ever, bishoPurple, Paleface Destro, EmersonCR, austinhb, nw3030, CarRo2010, DieHrdRox, Thnikkaman, maris61, evers44, RhodeIslandRoxfan, CentralCaliRox, Chrysicat, Shoemaker, arpagamos, holly96, WanderingRoxFan, roxintober, Rox the Casbah, Bryan Kilpatrick, Shaz_Bagl, Peppergod, Jeffrey Morton, steakman, papality, Andrew Martin, DAWNMARIE01, amoeba, coffeeis4closersonly, GoRoxGo, Hollidayrain, smilek, singlikebono
Total Users: 44
Total Posts: 1341
Total Threads: 2
Tomorrow, Ubaldo Jimenez (5-8, 4.08) is the poor sap who is tabbed to take the mound and face a Braves offense that has completely obliterated Rockies pitching in five games this season. He'll be opposed by Brandon Beachy (3-1, 3.21), who is hoping to face guys such as Tulowitzki and Wigginton multiple times with runners on base to improve on his already superb numbers. Will Freeman hit four more home runs? Will Jonny Venters and Craig Kimbrel strike out the Rockies six times on 18 pitches during the eighth and ninth innings? Will Helton and/or Jason Giambi continue to outperform guys who might as well be half their age? Tune in to find out.
265 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I don't care for that graph
--On Sale Now-- TracyLogix™ Managerial Simulation System - Now featuring the new and improved Situational Emulator with ContextTrak. Preorder Transformers 3 to redeem your Lefty Neutralizer Cheat Code **not available in North America**
Looks like our season.
Except for the end of course.
Riding the rollercoaster that is Rockies baseball
by prettyinpurple on Jul 18, 2011 10:22 PM MDT up reply actions
that series of questions in the closing paragraph is humorous
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
i dont care if it's tracy's fault or not, i want heads to roll
Ha, I love it.
And we will be tuning in to find out. I can say that for sure for myself.
Riding the rollercoaster that is Rockies baseball
by prettyinpurple on Jul 18, 2011 10:28 PM MDT up reply actions
On the bright side
Brothers looked good. Another inexpensive piece to build around. I have not been in the can Tracy group but it appears that he may have lost the clubhouse – this team looks like it is going through the motions at this point.
ugh
"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
by SDcat09 on Jul 18, 2011 10:24 PM MDT reply actions 2 recs
I wouldn't say you "missed" anything
"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
RALLY CAPS was fun
--On Sale Now-- TracyLogix™ Managerial Simulation System - Now featuring the new and improved Situational Emulator with ContextTrak. Preorder Transformers 3 to redeem your Lefty Neutralizer Cheat Code **not available in North America**
by bishoPurple on Jul 18, 2011 10:34 PM MDT up reply actions
indeed it was
however ineffectual it may have ended up being
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
i dont care if it's tracy's fault or not, i want heads to roll
HECK YEAH
Riding the rollercoaster that is Rockies baseball
by prettyinpurple on Jul 18, 2011 10:35 PM MDT up reply actions
At least Wheeler hit his 27th homer tonight?
Grasping for straws here
"Don't give up, don't ever give up" - Jim Valvano
by nodakroxfan on Jul 18, 2011 10:27 PM MDT via mobile reply actions
Christ.
Well, I really don’t think you can say this team doesn’t care, or doesn’t play hard. Lot of teams would have bagged it at 7-1. Not that that’s anything to celebrate, of course, but if you want to know why I haven’t starting sprinting down the road to try and catch the Fire The Manager bandwagon – that’s the best reason I can come up with. They haven’t rolled over for him. I know what it looks like when a team does that – see the first two months of 2009 – and this isn’t that.
Of course, the alternative is ‘This team just sucks, and not even Connie Freaking Mack could win with this crew’, which is even harder to stomach. But that’s a lot closer to the truth than anything about a manager losing a team, at least from my vantage point.
I mean – Ty Wigginton’s an everyday player and Jason Hammel’s our third best starting pitcher. A team that says that is also a team that says ‘What fishing spot will you be visiting on October 1st?’ It just is.
I guess I just feel duped. And I’m not the only one. And it wasn’t just some sort of purple-colored glasses thing, either. A whole lot of people thought this team was going to be good. I really thought they were, too. And they aren’t.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
I think that's the hardest thing to come to terms with
We were all wrong about this team this year. Very, very wrong.
Honestly, though, I’d rather have been wrong like this than wrong like we were last year. It was fair to say that 2010 team ran out of steam, reasonable to think they could step forward this year. There’s no masking the deficiencies of this team now, and aggressive changes need to be made into the future for the franchise to fulfill its potential.
I don’t know what those entail, they don’t pay me to make those decisions, and if they’re not made I guess I’ll just keep watching bad baseball, but yeah, this is the part where the emperor has no clothes.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
by Franchise26 on Jul 18, 2011 10:34 PM MDT up reply actions
Nail on the head
This iteration of the Colorado Rockies isn’t good. Far from it. And I hate that more than I can say. Some serious alterations are coming. Too late for this year, of course, but I do hope they can provide us with a decent set of clothes for next year.
(And BTW…I suspect I’ll be reading your column on SI in a rather short period of time. You have a passionate, yet sensible view of things. That kind of writing is very, very rare in today’s world.)
Get your purple on.
AUUUUGHHH
WE WERE DUPED.
/cries
Riding the rollercoaster that is Rockies baseball
by prettyinpurple on Jul 18, 2011 10:30 PM MDT up reply actions
A lot of players on this team have let the organization, their teammates, and the fans down
I don’t think we were duped in so much as they have failed monumentally.
--On Sale Now-- TracyLogix™ Managerial Simulation System - Now featuring the new and improved Situational Emulator with ContextTrak. Preorder Transformers 3 to redeem your Lefty Neutralizer Cheat Code **not available in North America**
by bishoPurple on Jul 18, 2011 10:31 PM MDT up reply actions
I feel duped too, but I'm used to it....
I’ve been a Rockies fan since 1993.
I don't feel duped, really.
For me this is a normal occurrence for the teams I follow across all sports.
Duped is right
Though we’re no idiots…this team was the darling of spring training. So much for the fancy digs in Scottsdale having an impact, except, perhaps for Todd helton. Bottom line is no one, other than the aforementioned, and perhaps Chacin, who was expected to produce, has produced. Maybe Seth Smith, but that’s it. Problem is, if we were, in fact, duped. Where do you start. I’m not so sure Cargo and Tulo are a good enough core…WAY too many questions.
by singlikebono on Jul 18, 2011 10:47 PM MDT up reply actions
This team was the darling of April even.
I am still a little in shock that this team has fallen so far so fast.
Baseball is a strange, cruel game sometimes.
Riding the rollercoaster that is Rockies baseball
by prettyinpurple on Jul 18, 2011 10:53 PM MDT up reply actions
Good perspective...
but when it’s played the right way, it is beautiful. When the guys put their best foot forward, you can handle the L’s, even streaks of L’s, but the team I thought would be such a great example of playing the “right way” has completely lost the moniker, and no one seems to have a clue as to how to get it back.
by singlikebono on Jul 18, 2011 11:00 PM MDT up reply actions
This.
I’m so lost.
Riding the rollercoaster that is Rockies baseball
by prettyinpurple on Jul 18, 2011 11:04 PM MDT up reply actions
Well....my urge is to go all Denver Stiffs on this team
and just let loose a string of expletives that are so pure, old women in Mexico will do the sign of the cross and say “Santa Maria!…el diablo, he is here”
but I will just grit my teeth and say tomorrow is another day.
Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe
DenverStiffs.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jmorton78
by Jeffrey Morton on Jul 18, 2011 10:33 PM MDT reply actions
Throw Jason Hammel on the stiff list
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jul 19, 2011 7:24 AM MDT up reply actions
hmm, I think I'll check how the Rockies did toni.......oh goddamnit.
We Fear NO ONE.
Because We Know: WE ARE THE ROCKIES.
by The Lodo Magic Man on Jul 18, 2011 10:33 PM MDT reply actions
I don't want to put the blame of this loss, last night's loss, or Saturday's loss on one person.
But my goodness Tulo, step up. Third game in a row he’s had a terrible AB to end the game.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Jul 18, 2011 10:33 PM MDT via mobile reply actions
i think this makes an ubaldo trade a little more likely, now that we're double-digits back in the division
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
i dont care if it's tracy's fault or not, i want heads to roll
agreed
Although I still put it at about 5:1 chance. These losses definitely don’t help either…the Rox will quickly lose the upper hand.
--On Sale Now-- TracyLogix™ Managerial Simulation System - Now featuring the new and improved Situational Emulator with ContextTrak. Preorder Transformers 3 to redeem your Lefty Neutralizer Cheat Code **not available in North America**
by bishoPurple on Jul 18, 2011 10:37 PM MDT up reply actions
ratio fail
er…1:5
--On Sale Now-- TracyLogix™ Managerial Simulation System - Now featuring the new and improved Situational Emulator with ContextTrak. Preorder Transformers 3 to redeem your Lefty Neutralizer Cheat Code **not available in North America**
by bishoPurple on Jul 18, 2011 10:38 PM MDT up reply actions
That’s not correct. The Rockies have the upper hand because there is absolutely no need for them to trade Ubaldo.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
by Franchise26 on Jul 18, 2011 10:38 PM MDT up reply actions
And absolutely no motivation for them to trade Ubaldo absent at least two TOR type arms
Because in Ubaldo, we already have one.
"We have done everything possible to be set for this day, for this season. It's time to go. We are ready. I can promise you that." - CarGo
by Mondogarage on Jul 18, 2011 10:39 PM MDT up reply actions
the motivation is dependent on what this organization want's to do
We don’t know which direction they really want to take. I’m inclined to believe the want to trade him.
--On Sale Now-- TracyLogix™ Managerial Simulation System - Now featuring the new and improved Situational Emulator with ContextTrak. Preorder Transformers 3 to redeem your Lefty Neutralizer Cheat Code **not available in North America**
by bishoPurple on Jul 18, 2011 10:43 PM MDT up reply actions
Based on what, exactly?
He’s under an incredibly team-friendly contract, and he’s a top of the rotation arm. So why exactly would the team want to trade him for anything short of a Dan Haren-trade type haul at an absolute minimum?
"We have done everything possible to be set for this day, for this season. It's time to go. We are ready. I can promise you that." - CarGo
by Mondogarage on Jul 18, 2011 10:47 PM MDT up reply actions
I understand
Believe me, I understand. But I also see a team on the field that is failing colossally. I don’t have the slightest clue what conversations are taking place inside that organization. None of us do. So to blindly proclaim that “it won’t happen” is naive. DOD may very well be under great pressure from ownership to make dramatic changes. Who knows? We don’t know that.
--On Sale Now-- TracyLogix™ Managerial Simulation System - Now featuring the new and improved Situational Emulator with ContextTrak. Preorder Transformers 3 to redeem your Lefty Neutralizer Cheat Code **not available in North America**
by bishoPurple on Jul 18, 2011 10:50 PM MDT up reply actions
But that's different than saying the team *wants* to trade Ubaldo.
No doubt there will be lots of changes. Will any of them be dramatic? Who knows…maybe more in the sum total of number of changes.
There are probably those who would point to a Street trade as dramatic, I guess. But teams simply don’t move FOR starters for mid level talent and filler, and that’s triply so when that FOR starter is signed to such a team-friendly deal. So without being overwhelmed, it’s just not going to be. Because Ubaldo is part of the solution, not the problem.
"We have done everything possible to be set for this day, for this season. It's time to go. We are ready. I can promise you that." - CarGo
by Mondogarage on Jul 18, 2011 10:55 PM MDT up reply actions
I said I'm inclined to believe they want to trade him
I should have clarified that I mean they want to trade him, not because they are unhappy with him or don’t think they can still build around him, but because I think the pressure is mounting to the point where DOD may feel like he has to take gamble to change the course of this organization.
No, I don’t have any “evidence” of this, other than what we’re seeing on the field. It’s a gut instinct. Sorry I said anything.
--On Sale Now-- TracyLogix™ Managerial Simulation System - Now featuring the new and improved Situational Emulator with ContextTrak. Preorder Transformers 3 to redeem your Lefty Neutralizer Cheat Code **not available in North America**
by bishoPurple on Jul 18, 2011 10:58 PM MDT up reply actions
I don't really understand
why O’Dowd would feel a need to change the course of the organization by trading away the best starting pitcher it has ever developed, who is signed to a ridiculously good deal, for anything less than an absolutely incredible offer from a pitching-desperate team.
I understand O’Dowd could want to change the organization’s course, but trading Ubaldo just to make a big trade is not a course change in the right direction.
This.
There’s lots of ways to “change the direction”. DFA Cook and Spilly (or trade if any takers), trade Street and Wiggy, etc….you do all of those things, and you’ve changed direction.
"We have done everything possible to be set for this day, for this season. It's time to go. We are ready. I can promise you that." - CarGo
by Mondogarage on Jul 18, 2011 11:03 PM MDT up reply actions
...and why not get a sick haul for ubaldo while we're at it?
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
i dont care if it's tracy's fault or not, i want heads to roll
That's what I'm saying.
The ONLY reason we’d EVER trade Ubaldo is IF we got an absolutely amazing haul from somebody.
We’re not desperate to trade him. We don’t want to trade him. But we will IF we get that amazing offer.
Of course.
If it’s a truly sick haul. That’s not what’s being said above here…where folks are saying that DOD’s demands are going to come down because he feels “pressure”. His demands are not going to come down. Because he has pretty much the single most valuable commodity right now…an affordable ace.
"We have done everything possible to be set for this day, for this season. It's time to go. We are ready. I can promise you that." - CarGo
by Mondogarage on Jul 18, 2011 11:05 PM MDT up reply actions
This is all true
It’s also true that his value is as high now as it likely ever will be on the trade market. Pressure to move a valuable asset and get something of value in return before that asset losses some value is a real thing, though.
--On Sale Now-- TracyLogix™ Managerial Simulation System - Now featuring the new and improved Situational Emulator with ContextTrak. Preorder Transformers 3 to redeem your Lefty Neutralizer Cheat Code **not available in North America**
by bishoPurple on Jul 18, 2011 11:13 PM MDT up reply actions
But this discounts the value he actually has to us AS A PITCHER
at the very front of our rotation.
Not everyone on a baseball roster is simply a trade chip to be moved on. some of them you actually need to keep because they do their jobs really freaking good. Ubaldo is one of those players.
"We have done everything possible to be set for this day, for this season. It's time to go. We are ready. I can promise you that." - CarGo
by Mondogarage on Jul 18, 2011 11:19 PM MDT up reply actions
but having montero, a B, and nova and no ubaldo is better than having ubaldo and none of those things
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
i dont care if it's tracy's fault or not, i want heads to roll
Nobody's saying O'Dowd won't trade Ubaldo if he gets that offer.
And nobody’s saying that it would be a bad trade.
What we’re saying is O’Dowd will ONLY trade Ubaldo if he gets that offer.
Sigh
Dude, you’re arguing points that aren’t at issue. I’m not saying he should get traded. I’m not saying he shouldn’t. I don’t even know what I think yet about it.
I’m not saying he’s not a great front end of a rotation pitcher. I’m not saying ANY OF THAT.
I’m saying, and for whatever reason you’ve decided that arguing about it is fun at a time when arguing about any of this is just freakin’ painful, that we do not know what DOD will do. That is not a hard concept to grasp. We do not know. We can assume. We can have faith. We can trust. We still don’t know for certain what he will actually take for Ubabldo and how close they actually are to doing it.
I’m done with this. I’ve made a clear point.
--On Sale Now-- TracyLogix™ Managerial Simulation System - Now featuring the new and improved Situational Emulator with ContextTrak. Preorder Transformers 3 to redeem your Lefty Neutralizer Cheat Code **not available in North America**
by bishoPurple on Jul 18, 2011 11:38 PM MDT up reply actions
Wait, you entire argument this whole time
is that we can’t be 100% positive that Dan O’Dowd won’t make a bad trade with Ubaldo?
I don’t understand why you’d spend so long arguing that. But you’re correct, we can’t KNOW he won’t.
yes, that was my whole point
clearly made early on in this “discussion.”
I spent time arguing it, probably because I was so baffled that it had become an argument.
--On Sale Now-- TracyLogix™ Managerial Simulation System - Now featuring the new and improved Situational Emulator with ContextTrak. Preorder Transformers 3 to redeem your Lefty Neutralizer Cheat Code **not available in North America**
by bishoPurple on Jul 18, 2011 11:42 PM MDT up reply actions
Your sig now makes me angry
I'm pretty disgusted right now!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jul 18, 2011 11:41 PM MDT up reply actions
they *want* to trade him, since o'dowd probably can nail most of what he wants from the yankees if things play out our way
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
i dont care if it's tracy's fault or not, i want heads to roll
I DOD can get all four of those pieces...
Montero, the B’s and Nova, then yes he will want to make that very specific trade. But he won’t for anything short of that, which is the point. Short of a team way overpaying, it ain’t happening, because of what Ubaldo actually pitching here means.
"We have done everything possible to be set for this day, for this season. It's time to go. We are ready. I can promise you that." - CarGo
by Mondogarage on Jul 18, 2011 11:04 PM MDT up reply actions
How do you know he won't?
That’s all I’m asking. You always demand that people “prove” their statements. Prove that he won’t.
--On Sale Now-- TracyLogix™ Managerial Simulation System - Now featuring the new and improved Situational Emulator with ContextTrak. Preorder Transformers 3 to redeem your Lefty Neutralizer Cheat Code **not available in North America**
by bishoPurple on Jul 18, 2011 11:06 PM MDT up reply actions
Because Dan O'Dowd is not an idiot?
Because recent history has shown that he’s competent at making trades to make the Rockies better?
Because trading Ubaldo for anything less for an amazing deal would be idiotic, and thus, not like Dan O’Dowd?
That's faith. Not proof.
--On Sale Now-- TracyLogix™ Managerial Simulation System - Now featuring the new and improved Situational Emulator with ContextTrak. Preorder Transformers 3 to redeem your Lefty Neutralizer Cheat Code **not available in North America**
by bishoPurple on Jul 18, 2011 11:10 PM MDT up reply actions
Because DOD has essentially said so.
But if you wanna call DOD a liar, that’s your prerogative.
Me? I’d rather save my axes for cutting down trees.
"We have done everything possible to be set for this day, for this season. It's time to go. We are ready. I can promise you that." - CarGo
by Mondogarage on Jul 18, 2011 11:12 PM MDT up reply actions
this is a stupid argument.
--On Sale Now-- TracyLogix™ Managerial Simulation System - Now featuring the new and improved Situational Emulator with ContextTrak. Preorder Transformers 3 to redeem your Lefty Neutralizer Cheat Code **not available in North America**
by bishoPurple on Jul 18, 2011 11:13 PM MDT up reply actions
The same thing can be said for every one of your statements. You say, “We can’t know,” as if that’s a clearly articulated point that actually means something.
Of course we can’t know. We’re not O’Dowd. Saying we can’t know earns you no points as a great thinker. Try offering some substance at some point.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
by cthabeerman on Jul 19, 2011 12:40 AM MDT up reply actions
that's why I said it was a stupid argument
The whole argument. But I suppose in your brilliant analysis you didn’t quite pick up on that.
Thanks for contributing to its stupidity though
--On Sale Now-- TracyLogix™ Managerial Simulation System - Now featuring the new and improved Situational Emulator with ContextTrak. Preorder Transformers 3 to redeem your Lefty Neutralizer Cheat Code **not available in North America**
if he can get montero, nova and either of the Bs, he'll do it, and would be dumb not to
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
i dont care if it's tracy's fault or not, i want heads to roll
there's no need for them to move him
but if teams perceive that they are more willing to move him, they won’t give as much up, which puts the pressure on DOD to make a decision.
--On Sale Now-- TracyLogix™ Managerial Simulation System - Now featuring the new and improved Situational Emulator with ContextTrak. Preorder Transformers 3 to redeem your Lefty Neutralizer Cheat Code **not available in North America**
by bishoPurple on Jul 18, 2011 10:42 PM MDT up reply actions
And then, that decision's easy. Because if they won't give as much up, he simply won't be moved.
"We have done everything possible to be set for this day, for this season. It's time to go. We are ready. I can promise you that." - CarGo
by Mondogarage on Jul 18, 2011 10:45 PM MDT up reply actions
how do we know that?
I think that’s blindly giving credit to the FO. That’s not something I’m prepared to do.
--On Sale Now-- TracyLogix™ Managerial Simulation System - Now featuring the new and improved Situational Emulator with ContextTrak. Preorder Transformers 3 to redeem your Lefty Neutralizer Cheat Code **not available in North America**
by bishoPurple on Jul 18, 2011 10:46 PM MDT up reply actions
i think that us losing works in our favor, really
because the worse our record gets, the less need we have for an ace pitcher, and with every bad start by colon and garcia cashman gets a little more desperate…. perfect storm is a brewin’
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
i dont care if it's tracy's fault or not, i want heads to roll
You're letting your negativity blind actual logic.
I guess you couldn’t give the FO credit for having signed him to such an incredibly team-friendly contract in the first place?
Do you have any actual logic-based reasoning for your belief that the team wants to trade him? I’m certainly willing to listen, but so far, no one’s presented any evidence of all of that.
"We have done everything possible to be set for this day, for this season. It's time to go. We are ready. I can promise you that." - CarGo
by Mondogarage on Jul 18, 2011 10:49 PM MDT up reply actions
Don't put words in my mouth.
All I’m saying is I’m not prepared to blindly believe that the FO is going to make the best decision. I hope they will. I think they will. But I will take it for granted that they will.
--On Sale Now-- TracyLogix™ Managerial Simulation System - Now featuring the new and improved Situational Emulator with ContextTrak. Preorder Transformers 3 to redeem your Lefty Neutralizer Cheat Code **not available in North America**
by bishoPurple on Jul 18, 2011 10:51 PM MDT up reply actions
will not take it for granted, that is
--On Sale Now-- TracyLogix™ Managerial Simulation System - Now featuring the new and improved Situational Emulator with ContextTrak. Preorder Transformers 3 to redeem your Lefty Neutralizer Cheat Code **not available in North America**
by bishoPurple on Jul 18, 2011 10:52 PM MDT up reply actions
So it’s of no significance to you that the last two blockbuster trades that Dan O’Dowd engineered helped bring in important pieces for playoff teams in 07 and 09?
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
by Franchise26 on Jul 18, 2011 10:54 PM MDT up reply actions
Did I say that?
No, I didn’t.
--On Sale Now-- TracyLogix™ Managerial Simulation System - Now featuring the new and improved Situational Emulator with ContextTrak. Preorder Transformers 3 to redeem your Lefty Neutralizer Cheat Code **not available in North America**
by bishoPurple on Jul 18, 2011 10:55 PM MDT up reply actions
I'm not putting words in your mouth at all
I’m inclined to believe the want to trade him.
That is, in fact, what you actually said. That you believe the team wants to trade him. I’m simply asking you to substantiate that.
"We have done everything possible to be set for this day, for this season. It's time to go. We are ready. I can promise you that." - CarGo
by Mondogarage on Jul 18, 2011 10:56 PM MDT up reply actions
and from that you starting talking about his contract.
--On Sale Now-- TracyLogix™ Managerial Simulation System - Now featuring the new and improved Situational Emulator with ContextTrak. Preorder Transformers 3 to redeem your Lefty Neutralizer Cheat Code **not available in North America**
by bishoPurple on Jul 18, 2011 10:58 PM MDT up reply actions
Because it is highly relevant and demonstrable fact
"We have done everything possible to be set for this day, for this season. It's time to go. We are ready. I can promise you that." - CarGo
by Mondogarage on Jul 18, 2011 11:06 PM MDT up reply actions
If the Rockies aren’t given what they want for Ubaldo, they won’t trade him – because, again, he’s under contract the next three seasons and he’s a really good pitcher. If the Rockies lower their asking price then Dan O’Dowd is the biggest idiot on God’s earth, and since we’re a decade clear of the Figgins-for-Bartee deal, I think it’s fair to say that’s not the case.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
by Franchise26 on Jul 18, 2011 10:45 PM MDT up reply actions
That's the logic of it.
Do you really trust the FO that much? I don’t
--On Sale Now-- TracyLogix™ Managerial Simulation System - Now featuring the new and improved Situational Emulator with ContextTrak. Preorder Transformers 3 to redeem your Lefty Neutralizer Cheat Code **not available in North America**
by bishoPurple on Jul 18, 2011 10:46 PM MDT up reply actions
yep
"Don't give up, don't ever give up" - Jim Valvano
by nodakroxfan on Jul 18, 2011 10:58 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
No it doesnt
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Jul 18, 2011 10:38 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
The only thing that will make a Ubaldo trade more likely is how big a package a team will offer
Because Ubaldo’s not moving for one prospect and one every day player piece. That’s simply not happening. Without a significant overpay, he’s not being moved, simple as that.
However, I think this does cement a Huston Street trade, if any contenders out there have any interest. Also Spilly and Wiggy are likely to be headed out the door soon.
"We have done everything possible to be set for this day, for this season. It's time to go. We are ready. I can promise you that." - CarGo
by Mondogarage on Jul 18, 2011 10:38 PM MDT up reply actions
I was hoping that the Iannetta/Tracy ejections and the loss that followed would fire up the clubhouse.
Looks like they went the other direction…
I've seen this Jim Tracy show before, to even start to turn this thing around Tracy has to go, and right freaking now
Jim’s last two years in LA, he went from a team 2004 that went 95-69 and division title, to a 2005 team that went 71-91. He’s doing the same damn thing here: His record in his 1st 162 games for the Rockies: 95-67, Tracy’s record in his 2nd 162 games for Rockies 75-87, and his W-L record is only getting worse.
We Fear NO ONE.
Because We Know: WE ARE THE ROCKIES.
by The Lodo Magic Man on Jul 18, 2011 10:44 PM MDT reply actions
agreed
when you’re in charge and the people under you fail, you’ve failed
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
i dont care if it's tracy's fault or not, i want heads to roll
**the 2004 Dodgers went 93-69
We Fear NO ONE.
Because We Know: WE ARE THE ROCKIES.
by The Lodo Magic Man on Jul 18, 2011 10:47 PM MDT up reply actions
lets not forget his two stellar pirates squads, winners of 67 and 68 games
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
i dont care if it's tracy's fault or not, i want heads to roll
Yeah, shame on Jim Tracy for not figuring out how to get those teams to the playoffs.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
by Franchise26 on Jul 18, 2011 10:50 PM MDT up reply actions
the 06 NL central was a joke
the cardinals won the division, with 83 wins.. that was very doable, especially given the strong years from freddy sanchez and jason bay, and several other decent players… their pitching wasnt terribly strong, but given how bad the division was, it neednt really have mattered…
the story isn’t all that different from the 07 central, either, as the cubs won 85 games; 5 pirates players, playing in over 100 games each, put up OPS+ over 100 , and bautista and bay were in the mid 90s… snell and gorzellany were decent as well, and maholm was developing and promising…
sound familiar? a strong supporting cast, ‘talented’ players not performing to expectations, in a very winnable division, captained by jim tracy
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
i dont care if it's tracy's fault or not, i want heads to roll
Wow, are we really debating the merits of the mid-00’s Pirates? Those teams were horrible. Full stop. Think about what you’re trying to argue here.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
by Franchise26 on Jul 18, 2011 11:02 PM MDT up reply actions
i'm arguing that jim tracy needs to be fired, and has a track record as a bad manager who fails to execute in winnable situations
the 06 and 07 pirates are perfect evidence to that point
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
i dont care if it's tracy's fault or not, i want heads to roll
Nobody without an axe to grind or some killer drugs would argue that the 06 and 07 Pirates were teams in winnable situations.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
by Franchise26 on Jul 18, 2011 11:04 PM MDT up reply actions
but they were, which i discuss like 3 posts above
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
i dont care if it's tracy's fault or not, i want heads to roll
Um, no. Because despite the Cards only winning 83 games...
…they were far more talented than the Pirates. That Pirates roster in any other division wins about 58-60 games.
"We have done everything possible to be set for this day, for this season. It's time to go. We are ready. I can promise you that." - CarGo
by Mondogarage on Jul 18, 2011 11:07 PM MDT up reply actions
So a manager has no discernable effect on the team whatsoever?
It’s entirely played out by the physical talent on the field.
Okay… thats one opinion.
There is a gulf of difference between
“no discernable effect” and being able to take a fundamentally untalented or less talented team to a division above two significantly more talented teams.
"We have done everything possible to be set for this day, for this season. It's time to go. We are ready. I can promise you that." - CarGo
by Mondogarage on Jul 18, 2011 11:13 PM MDT up reply actions
"There is a gulf of difference" See how using quotes makes you sound smart?
No. There isn’t a gulf of difference. Good managers get the best out of their players, using whatever limited or extensive resources they have.
Otherwise what’s the point of a manager? Let them just roll out there by themselves.
I don't understand what you think Tracy is supposed to do.
I can’t speak for Mondo, but I’m of the opinion that there isn’t a ton a manager can do to effect the outcome of a game in progress. He sets the lineup and handles the bullpen, but the players have to go up there and perform, and the Rockies haven’t done that as a whole.
I’m sure Tracy has gone over hitting with them time and time again. He can’t MAKE a player get a hit with a RISP, though.
joe maddon gets the rays to get it done time after time, and compete with the yankees and red sox
when frankly they shouldnt be
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
i dont care if it's tracy's fault or not, i want heads to roll
FIRE JOE MADDON!!
(So we can hire him)
Altar Boy in the Church of Santo Ubaldo
"...buffalo chicken is a fine anti-depressant, after all." -UZ
Why shouldn't they be?
They’ve been inordinately fortunate in their top round draft choices all becoming very good players.
"We have done everything possible to be set for this day, for this season. It's time to go. We are ready. I can promise you that." - CarGo
by Mondogarage on Jul 18, 2011 11:23 PM MDT up reply actions
they only have 2 high-draft picks playing for them everyday, price and longoria
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
i dont care if it's tracy's fault or not, i want heads to roll
But what, exactly, does Joe Maddon do to get the players to perform?
Couldn’t it just be that the Rays players perform better than the Rockies’ players?
i dunno
but it’s an example of a manager who has an effect on his team and takes them beyond what they would otherwise be, what any good leader does
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
i dont care if it's tracy's fault or not, i want heads to roll
Entering tonight:
Rays Pythagorean W/L, 2011: 50-43
Rays Actual W/L, 2011: 50-43
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
by Franchise26 on Jul 18, 2011 11:27 PM MDT up reply actions
Oh snap.
"We have done everything possible to be set for this day, for this season. It's time to go. We are ready. I can promise you that." - CarGo
by Mondogarage on Jul 18, 2011 11:28 PM MDT up reply actions
oh, so why have managers at all then?
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
i dont care if it's tracy's fault or not, i want heads to roll
So that Tony LaRussa's head has room to grow
"We have done everything possible to be set for this day, for this season. It's time to go. We are ready. I can promise you that." - CarGo
by Mondogarage on Jul 18, 2011 11:33 PM MDT up reply actions
I don’t think you know how good the Rays pitching is. The Rays are absolutely good enough to compete with those teams.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
by Franchise26 on Jul 18, 2011 11:23 PM MDT up reply actions
rays pitchers have 7.5 WAR
less than half the yankees total, and about 75% the red sox
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
i dont care if it's tracy's fault or not, i want heads to roll
sorry that'sjust above half, the yankees have 13
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
i dont care if it's tracy's fault or not, i want heads to roll
So what can he do?
You guys seriously make managing a professional baseball team sound like the most pointless job in the world.
I think that the impact of a manager is limited, yes.
I don’t understand what you think other managers like Maddon are doing that Jim Tracy ISN’T doing to get their players to perform.
I don’t understand what you think Tracy CAN do to get a player to get a hit with a runner at third and two outs.
Then explain....
Why Joe Torre is considered some ungodly great manager winning 4 WS with the Yankees, when he had a lifetime losing record as a manager (and it wasn’t even close) for the 12 seasons he managed the Mets, Braves, and Cardinals before that? And when no one could even understand why he was hired by the Yankees, because he’d been such a terrible manager for those 12 losing seasons?
"We have done everything possible to be set for this day, for this season. It's time to go. We are ready. I can promise you that." - CarGo
by Mondogarage on Jul 18, 2011 11:22 PM MDT up reply actions
you dont know that
because as it happened, they did only win 83 games, and outside of albert, edmonds, and carpenter, they didnt really have anything; the pirates were much more well-rounded, and could very well have won that division with better leadership
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
i dont care if it's tracy's fault or not, i want heads to roll
The Cardinals did win the World Series that year, you don’t do that by being chopped liver.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
by Franchise26 on Jul 18, 2011 11:13 PM MDT up reply actions
And the Pirates could have won the NL Central had Albert Pujols been on their roster.
"We have done everything possible to be set for this day, for this season. It's time to go. We are ready. I can promise you that." - CarGo
by Mondogarage on Jul 18, 2011 11:13 PM MDT up reply actions
they in fact probably would have
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
i dont care if it's tracy's fault or not, i want heads to roll
So I get it. It's Jim Tracy's fault that Albert Pujols was a Cardinal.
I understand now.
"We have done everything possible to be set for this day, for this season. It's time to go. We are ready. I can promise you that." - CarGo
by Mondogarage on Jul 18, 2011 11:24 PM MDT up reply actions
FINALLY
that is 100% my point entirely
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
i dont care if it's tracy's fault or not, i want heads to roll
and he had chance after chance after chance after chance
13th round pick
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
i dont care if it's tracy's fault or not, i want heads to roll
absolutely
he could have been our 3rd baseman or right/left fielder for years
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
i dont care if it's tracy's fault or not, i want heads to roll
the playoffs are a SSS crapshoot, everyone knows that
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
i dont care if it's tracy's fault or not, i want heads to roll
let's not forget his two stellar Pirates rosters
Haven’t had a winning season in 18 years, that’s really Jim Tracy’s fault, for not beating the owners with sticks to actually bring any talent in at all.
"We have done everything possible to be set for this day, for this season. It's time to go. We are ready. I can promise you that." - CarGo
by Mondogarage on Jul 18, 2011 10:51 PM MDT up reply actions
Look at the 04 Dodgers compared to the 05 Dodgers. Hell, just look at the 05 Dodgers and tell me a manager who will win with that team. That team lost Eric Gagne (for the majority of the season) and Guillermo Mota, their two best relievers. Somebody named DJ Houlton had to make 19 starts. Adrian Beltre was replaced by Mike Edwards at third base. Milton Bradley and JD Drew only played half the season.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
by Franchise26 on Jul 18, 2011 10:49 PM MDT up reply actions
This.
But it’s too easy and too lazy to just say “Tracy sux FIRE HIM”.
"We have done everything possible to be set for this day, for this season. It's time to go. We are ready. I can promise you that." - CarGo
by Mondogarage on Jul 18, 2011 10:51 PM MDT up reply actions
So what would be the harm in firing him then?
The ship is been sinking for three months now. Holding the course has not worked. Flipping position players has not worked.
Because it serves no useful purpose now and...
who are you going to hire to take his place?
What is the benefit in firing him now?
"We have done everything possible to be set for this day, for this season. It's time to go. We are ready. I can promise you that." - CarGo
by Mondogarage on Jul 18, 2011 10:58 PM MDT up reply actions
vinny castilla can interim manage, or hill, or runnels, or whomever
the benefit is we get rid of the man who has provided two years of failure at managing
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
i dont care if it's tracy's fault or not, i want heads to roll
Exactly.
“whomever”.
That means you really just wanna fire him for the sake of firing him, and not because you think anyone else can improve this team. That’s so utterly pointless.
But axes need grinding, yo.
"We have done everything possible to be set for this day, for this season. It's time to go. We are ready. I can promise you that." - CarGo
by Mondogarage on Jul 18, 2011 11:08 PM MDT up reply actions
so why is fair to say the players have failed, but tracy hasn't?
he’s in charge of them, and when the people you’re in charge of fail, you’ve failed, in literally any other facet of life
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
i dont care if it's tracy's fault or not, i want heads to roll
or maybe shields need polishing, yo
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
i dont care if it's tracy's fault or not, i want heads to roll
For the 352nd time, I'm not suggesting Tracy shouldn't be fired
Just that the wholesale changes will be after the season, and not during.
"We have done everything possible to be set for this day, for this season. It's time to go. We are ready. I can promise you that." - CarGo
by Mondogarage on Jul 18, 2011 11:16 PM MDT up reply actions
it's not even that
it’s that you never admit he may have any culpability at all
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
i dont care if it's tracy's fault or not, i want heads to roll
That's crap.
I’ve said multiple times I do not expect he’ll be managing the club next season.
"We have done everything possible to be set for this day, for this season. It's time to go. We are ready. I can promise you that." - CarGo
by Mondogarage on Jul 18, 2011 11:25 PM MDT up reply actions
not the same thing, at all
any time, and i mean any, at all, ever, someone advocates removing tracy because the team is performing poorly, you defend him… you have never come out against tracy
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
i dont care if it's tracy's fault or not, i want heads to roll
That's also crap.
I’m still waiting for someone to make an actual reasoned argument specifically stating why he should be fired before the end of the season, and why exactly any interim replacement would do a better job. Otherwise, you’re just rearranging deck chairs, and that serves no useful purpose.
let’s people keep grinding their axes, though.
"We have done everything possible to be set for this day, for this season. It's time to go. We are ready. I can promise you that." - CarGo
by Mondogarage on Jul 18, 2011 11:31 PM MDT up reply actions
i've said why he should be fired, over and over, on this thread
because when you’re in charge of people, and they fail, you fail. that’s why he should be fired. he has failed. for two years. plain and simple.
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
i dont care if it's tracy's fault or not, i want heads to roll
And… it’s time.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
by Franchise26 on Jul 18, 2011 11:35 PM MDT up reply actions
i dont understand how this negates the complete validity of my point, but okay, go ahead and post comedy jpgs
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
i dont care if it's tracy's fault or not, i want heads to roll
It’s not a negation, it’s just a statement of fact. You, in fact, mad. That’s why you want Jim Tracy fired. Because you mad.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
by Franchise26 on Jul 18, 2011 11:39 PM MDT up reply actions
...and that's bad how?
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
i dont care if it's tracy's fault or not, i want heads to roll
I never said it was bad. It’s your sole argument.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
by Franchise26 on Jul 18, 2011 11:42 PM MDT up reply actions
a completely correct and valid one
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
i dont care if it's tracy's fault or not, i want heads to roll
not so much
“keeping papality happy” is not one of the elements of Jim Tracy’s job description, and thus, his failure to keep you from going YOU MAD is not a firing offense.
"We have done everything possible to be set for this day, for this season. It's time to go. We are ready. I can promise you that." - CarGo
Do you think it would accomplish anything to improve the team at all?
Or is this just a punishment for how disappointing the team has been this year?
punishment
but i guess that’s out of the question, because 2009 made him a saint
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
i dont care if it's tracy's fault or not, i want heads to roll
"punishment"
ergo, ax to grind, no actual reason other than that.
"We have done everything possible to be set for this day, for this season. It's time to go. We are ready. I can promise you that." - CarGo
by Mondogarage on Jul 18, 2011 11:37 PM MDT up reply actions
but it'll help you somehow FEEL better.
If it doesn’t help the actual Colorado Rockies ballclub, that shouldn’t matter, should it.
"We have done everything possible to be set for this day, for this season. It's time to go. We are ready. I can promise you that." - CarGo
by Mondogarage on Jul 18, 2011 11:38 PM MDT up reply actions
who gives a crap if it "makes the team better" or not?
he deserves it for failing at his job. if you perform at less than 50% in your job for a year and a half, do you expect to keep your job?
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
i dont care if it's tracy's fault or not, i want heads to roll
I'm pretty sure nobody said that.
I just don’t see the point in firing a guy when you don’t think it will improve the team. Especially when you don’t care if it’s his fault or not.
Seems a bit vindictive.
but it is his fault, or at least, it's partially his fault
and for the most part, the worst players have been excised, why is tracy immune from replacement?
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
i dont care if it's tracy's fault or not, i want heads to roll
That is beyond oversimplistics
You haven’t begun to make a case as to why he should be fired now, in season, without a single alternative identified that would actually cause the team to perform better.
"We have done everything possible to be set for this day, for this season. It's time to go. We are ready. I can promise you that." - CarGo
by Mondogarage on Jul 18, 2011 11:37 PM MDT up reply actions
it doesnt need to make the team better
you dont reward failure, plain and simple. just as lopez got the ax, so should tracy
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
i dont care if it's tracy's fault or not, i want heads to roll
the reward is him not being fired for failure
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
i dont care if it's tracy's fault or not, i want heads to roll
If the team continues on in this manner,
I’m almost certain he’ll be fired at the end of the season.
Isn’t that punishment enough?
from my point of view, no
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
i dont care if it's tracy's fault or not, i want heads to roll
So in your mind
There is nothing that could happen in season and there’s no amount of games the Rockies could lose that get Jim Tracy fired before game 162?
I'm pretty disgusted right now!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jul 18, 2011 11:19 PM MDT up reply actions
Short of a 15 game losing streak, probably not.
"We have done everything possible to be set for this day, for this season. It's time to go. We are ready. I can promise you that." - CarGo
by Mondogarage on Jul 18, 2011 11:25 PM MDT up reply actions
Were you of this opinion before Hurdle was fired?
"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
No, because Hurdle had visibily lost the clubhouse
Now…some Rowbots “suspect” Tracy has, but there’s been no evidence suggesting so.
"We have done everything possible to be set for this day, for this season. It's time to go. We are ready. I can promise you that." - CarGo
by Mondogarage on Jul 18, 2011 11:26 PM MDT up reply actions
and there's exactly the same amount of evidence suggesting he hasn't
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
i dont care if it's tracy's fault or not, i want heads to roll
Tonight was evidence that he hasn't.
The team at least had a little bit of fight in them.
They didn’t look like that the first two months of 2007.
still lost, though
and tracy was still in charge
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
i dont care if it's tracy's fault or not, i want heads to roll
God this is a stupid argument.
You agree the team showed some fight tonight.
The Red Sox started 2-11 this season. Should Terry Francona have been fired? Of course not.
"We have done everything possible to be set for this day, for this season. It's time to go. We are ready. I can promise you that." - CarGo
by Mondogarage on Jul 18, 2011 11:32 PM MDT up reply actions
Yes, let's start comparing Jim Tracy to Terry Francona
Francona has won 2 World Series, Tracy hasn’t managed to win 2 playoff series
francona brought a boston team which had been absolutely crushed by the 2003 ALCS,
and had them not only win the world series the year after, but another one 3 years after that, and has maintained an extremely high level of performance the rest of his tenure.. remember how last year, when like the entire team was on the DL, and they still won 89 games, in the AL east? i doubt tracy would have won 50 games if he were in that situation, and i bet francona would do an outstanding job as rockies manager, given how talented we think this team should be
…and i hate boston more than pretty much anything in the world
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
i dont care if it's tracy's fault or not, i want heads to roll
You mean 09, of course.
And when “Well, he hasn’t NOT lost the team!” is an argument, it’s a stupid argument.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
by Franchise26 on Jul 18, 2011 11:29 PM MDT up reply actions
I didn't exactly see the point when Hurdle lost the clubhouse
Was it Tulo’s benching? All the players said it was their fault Hurdle was fired because they didn’t perform. I’m not sure how this is different.
"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Actually the only reason I'd advocate not firing him is because you're right
There is no replacement right now. And it could cause a huge mess at the end of the season.
But let’s say this week goes to absolute hell. Rockies swept. Nine games under .500 and 13-odd games out of first. For a team predicted to be in the top 2 contenders for the LA west by pretty much everyone on the planet that is an utter, uter disgrace. Someone’s head has to roll publically. I can’t imagine who else it will be.
Do you think the people would accept Cookie’s head on a stick?
I'm not saying Tracy won't be fired. It's just not going to happen in season.
Some blog poster’s demands for a head to roll publicly is not actually, a made case that a head has to roll publicly.
"We have done everything possible to be set for this day, for this season. It's time to go. We are ready. I can promise you that." - CarGo
by Mondogarage on Jul 18, 2011 11:15 PM MDT up reply actions
I have no idea the mood in Denver, a few thousand miles away
But… well.. what is? The people who frequent Coors cannot be pleased.
The mood here in Denver seems to pretty well reflect the mood on the Row
Lots of confusion…division on what should be done…great unhappiness
--On Sale Now-- TracyLogix™ Managerial Simulation System - Now featuring the new and improved Situational Emulator with ContextTrak. Preorder Transformers 3 to redeem your Lefty Neutralizer Cheat Code **not available in North America**
by bishoPurple on Jul 18, 2011 11:23 PM MDT up reply actions
That's why I'm imaging an ax has to drop at some point
And I can’t imagine who elses head it will fall on.
Oh, I dunno, I frequent Coors quite a bit.
I saw a lot of huge cheering crowds the last few times I’ve been.
I saw Cookie booed a couple starts ago. Tracy wasn’t booed.
"We have done everything possible to be set for this day, for this season. It's time to go. We are ready. I can promise you that." - CarGo
by Mondogarage on Jul 18, 2011 11:26 PM MDT up reply actions
but Jim has been given the talent with this team,
and he’s failed in his second full year’s worth of games again…..
We Fear NO ONE.
Because We Know: WE ARE THE ROCKIES.
by The Lodo Magic Man on Jul 18, 2011 10:57 PM MDT up reply actions
OK, in regards to being given talent this season… two questions.
One… has he?
And two… has he really?
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
by Franchise26 on Jul 18, 2011 10:58 PM MDT up reply actions
Yeah, let's take a look at that "talent"
JDLR had Tommy John.
Ian Stewart forgot how to play baseball and apparently does not make adjustments.
One of his leading starting pitchers (by innings pitched) wasn’t even expected to see AAA this year.
He was given Jose Lopez. And Jason Giambi.
Ubaldo was not Ubaldo for a good 5-6 weeks.
Playing blame games is so much easier, though.
"We have done everything possible to be set for this day, for this season. It's time to go. We are ready. I can promise you that." - CarGo
by Mondogarage on Jul 18, 2011 11:00 PM MDT up reply actions
that's the talent we've ended up with, not the talent we started with, that everyone expected us to coast the playoffs on
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
i dont care if it's tracy's fault or not, i want heads to roll
3/5 of a rotation with Ubaldo Chacin and Nicasio is not any better than a rotation of Weaver, Odalis Perez, and Kaz Ishii?
We Fear NO ONE.
Because We Know: WE ARE THE ROCKIES.
by The Lodo Magic Man on Jul 18, 2011 11:06 PM MDT up reply actions
*with 3/5 of their rotation being Weaver, Perez, and Ishii?
We Fear NO ONE.
Because We Know: WE ARE THE ROCKIES.
by The Lodo Magic Man on Jul 18, 2011 11:07 PM MDT up reply actions
The Gints do not have 3/5 of their rotation being Weaver, Perez, and Ishii
"We have done everything possible to be set for this day, for this season. It's time to go. We are ready. I can promise you that." - CarGo
by Mondogarage on Jul 18, 2011 11:09 PM MDT up reply actions
Maybe not, but you can’t just cherry pick three spots. The 04 Dodgers had THE BEST 8-9 inning guys in baseball in Guillermo Mota and a historically great season from Eric Gagne. Speaking of historically great, check out what Adrian Beltre did in the heart of that lineup. Also consider that the Rockies and Diamondbacks were dog-ass awful that season and the Dodgers got to play them a combined 36 times.
It’s really hard to make a direct comparison, but really, if you want to compare the 04 Dodgers to the 11 Rockies, one team won 93 games and one team’s going to struggle to win 80.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
by Franchise26 on Jul 18, 2011 11:10 PM MDT up reply actions
Right when he starts he does a few good things
lets players play and feel comfortable playing for him…and then he tries to go mad scientist with matchups and lineup formulas and it starts to take its toll….
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jul 19, 2011 7:27 AM MDT up reply actions
If the Giants win tonight
And I’m going to assume they will – The Rockies (in less than half a season) will have dropped 15 games in the standings to them since the start of May when they led the divsion by 4.5 games. (They have also lost 13.5 games to the D’backs in that span) In other words, the Rockies have played like a team that will finish 34 games out of first place over the course of a 162 game season for about 2.5 months now. Only two teams in all of baseball have more loses than the Rockies since the start of May; they are the Astros and the Royals. This is not a small sample size either, this is almost a half a season’s worth of baseball games where the Rockies find themselves in that company.
I keep waiting for it to get better and it only gets worse. I don’t know what to think anymore. There’s no way this team is that bad. There’ just no way!!!!!!
I'm pretty disgusted right now!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jul 18, 2011 10:51 PM MDT reply actions
I stopped telling myself that lie a month ago
They really are this bad. I do not understand how, but they are.
But you can blame injuries...
I’m so friggin’ sick of all the excuses, too. And WTF, can someone get hot with the bat? Anyone?
I keep thinking if one of our stars get hot (Tulo, Cargo, Ubo), we can bring it back, but even with the Rox Penchant for big streaks, I just don’t see it happening anytime soon.
by singlikebono on Jul 18, 2011 10:57 PM MDT up reply actions
I can't really use injuries as an excuse,
because that was my excuse last year.
Yet last year was better than this, more fun, magical, we almost had a chance, etc.
Riding the rollercoaster that is Rockies baseball
by prettyinpurple on Jul 18, 2011 11:01 PM MDT up reply actions
Nobody likes to use injuries as an excuse.
However, this team has lost significant man-games to injuries in both of the last two seasons.
If JDLR doesn’t blow out his elbow, the rotation is Ubaldo, JDLR, Chacin, Nicasio, and Hammel. That’s a lot better than having Hammel and Cook.
"We have done everything possible to be set for this day, for this season. It's time to go. We are ready. I can promise you that." - CarGo
by Mondogarage on Jul 18, 2011 11:02 PM MDT up reply actions
Do you think they let Nicasio take Cook's place?
He was an emergency call-up due to DLR’s injury. With the way the team kept pushing Chacin out of the rotation for Cook last year, I would have expected them to leave Cook in the rotation once he got back (and probably not even have called Nicasio up)
No, I'm not saying that, but...
He may have been the callup when Rogers went down.
"We have done everything possible to be set for this day, for this season. It's time to go. We are ready. I can promise you that." - CarGo
by Mondogarage on Jul 18, 2011 11:10 PM MDT up reply actions
Agreed...
But we were sold a bill of goods…that the organization was deep, the young players hungry and improving, yada yada yada….
And like an idiot, I believed them (based on the evidence of ’07, ’09)
by singlikebono on Jul 18, 2011 11:05 PM MDT up reply actions
You can look to Dex and Stewart for failing then.
Jim Tracy doesn’t strike out at a 35% clip.
"We have done everything possible to be set for this day, for this season. It's time to go. We are ready. I can promise you that." - CarGo
by Mondogarage on Jul 18, 2011 11:10 PM MDT up reply actions
He creates lineups. Manages call-ups, and the bullpen during the lovely Paulino era
He offers advice and provides leadership. It’s intangible, but it’s all there. Yes Dex and Stewie have failed, but no one denys they have raw talent.
So who failed them?
And there's significant evidence out there that batting orders are almost irrelevant
And as a manager, you can have your flailing batters take as much extra BP, cage work, etc, as you want, but if a player just doesn’t get it, sometimes…a player just doesn’t get it. But no one wants to actually hold any of them accountable, I guess.
"We have done everything possible to be set for this day, for this season. It's time to go. We are ready. I can promise you that." - CarGo
by Mondogarage on Jul 18, 2011 11:18 PM MDT up reply actions
Who is saying they are not accountable?
EVERYONE should be accountable. Even a manager. If you honestly do not believe a manager has effect on the chemistry of a team and individual players performance then I ask again: WHY DO WE HAVE THEM?
Let’s computers spit out random lineups.
Have a batting coach pick the bull pen.
The GM calls up players.
Every man for himself.
My take: 90% Players 10% Manager
But with young players, firing the manager can make an instant impact…Look at what happened when Hurdle was let go in favor of Tracy.
by singlikebono on Jul 18, 2011 11:31 PM MDT up reply actions
Righto!
And to think I bought my son a Fowler Jersey at the beginning of the season (thinking this was his breakout year!). I still love Stewart and his defense…maybe he needs a good therapist?
by singlikebono on Jul 18, 2011 11:32 PM MDT up reply actions
ouch…that was humbling
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jul 19, 2011 7:29 AM MDT up reply actions
Sad Cat is very sad :(
"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Me too : (
Riding the rollercoaster that is Rockies baseball
by prettyinpurple on Jul 18, 2011 10:59 PM MDT up reply actions
There's something evil that lurks in the center of all these troubles
and it’s a severe lack of killer instinct. It’s rather disturbing how this team is so unclutch. The fact that this team can’t take advantage of Helton’s best year in 4 seasons with the talent (or supposed talent) they have around him makes me feel both bad for Todd and infuriated at the group of marshmallows that has been masquerading as a baseball team since May.
Geh
Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe
DenverStiffs.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jmorton78
by Jeffrey Morton on Jul 18, 2011 11:05 PM MDT reply actions
I'm just rather stunned at this point.
I just don’t know what to make of it all, where it’s all gone wrong or why. And why we can’t fix it.
It’s so painful.
"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
I feel like Miss Clevel:
“Something is not right”.
Riding the rollercoaster that is Rockies baseball
by prettyinpurple on Jul 18, 2011 11:09 PM MDT up reply actions
OMG! Madeleine!!!
"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
One of my favorite book series when I was a kid : )
Riding the rollercoaster that is Rockies baseball
by prettyinpurple on Jul 18, 2011 11:20 PM MDT up reply actions
Mine too:)
I read it until the covers fell off. Do you know of Amelia Bedalia?
"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Yes!
My grandma gave me the book when she made the jelly rolls! Loved it.
Riding the rollercoaster that is Rockies baseball
by prettyinpurple on Jul 18, 2011 11:29 PM MDT up reply actions
I loved her dressing the turkey.
"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
hehehe
Riding the rollercoaster that is Rockies baseball
by prettyinpurple on Jul 18, 2011 11:30 PM MDT up reply actions
It's bad
although I’m starting to wonder if some of this supposed talent wasn’t overvalued severely by the me, the media, the front office and just about everyone on the planet.
Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe
DenverStiffs.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jmorton78
by Jeffrey Morton on Jul 18, 2011 11:10 PM MDT up reply actions
I wouldn't say it was overvalued.
Nearly everybody in baseball thought Stewart and Fowler would improve to the point that they would be impact bats in a major league lineup.
Nobody expected them to take a step back (Fowler) or absolutely crater (Stewart).
When they did, it left the lineup incredibly lackluster overall.
Not to mention you couldn’t predict De La Rosa’s injury, or Ubaldo’s complete ineffectiveness to start the year. They looked like they’d be an amazing 1-2-3 with Chacin at the start of the year.
It just hasn’t worked out. At all.
What's even more frustrating though is that they had it last year
when they came back time and time again late in games. So it’s not like they have always lacked the killer instinct – They just lack the killer instinct this season with basically the same group of players. This I don’t understand.
I'm pretty disgusted right now!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jul 18, 2011 11:09 PM MDT up reply actions
They seem to be mental marshmallows
Last year even, they folded like deck chairs down the stretch after making a run. I think it shows more character to succeed with expectation than win when no one expects you to. This team has a serious issue with expectation.
Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe
DenverStiffs.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jmorton78
by Jeffrey Morton on Jul 18, 2011 11:12 PM MDT up reply actions
This team has a serious issue with expectation
Sounds good, but explain April when they had the best record in baseball. If they couldn’t handle expectation, they should have fallen on their face out of the gate.
I'm pretty disgusted right now!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jul 18, 2011 11:14 PM MDT up reply actions
Unclutch is streaky...
Just like hot streaks…but I’m with you that there is something bigger happening here. I’m starting to think it lurks at the center of the biggest cash haul given away in Rox history this past offseason. As brilliant as it seemed at the time, it created far too much comfort at 20th & Blake. Big Bank account = lack of edge for many a player.
by singlikebono on Jul 18, 2011 11:11 PM MDT up reply actions
Tell that to Wiggy
Unclutch hangs around longer than “streaky.”
Altar Boy in the Church of Santo Ubaldo
"...buffalo chicken is a fine anti-depressant, after all." -UZ
Tulo's problem isn't "lack of edge"
It’s the exact opposite.
He’s trying too hard, wanting to hit a home run every time he comes to the plate, especially in clutch situations.
Ugh
I’m sick of the Ubaldo talk. I’m sick of the losing. I’m sick of Tracy’s excuses. I’m sick of the prospect of Tulo failing with RISP late in the game for the next 10 years.
Altar Boy in the Church of Santo Ubaldo
"...buffalo chicken is a fine anti-depressant, after all." -UZ
Todd needs to pull Tulo aside
And slap him the f@#$ around. For a leader on a team this type of effort is pathetic. He needs to step up and step up big. When you sign a $150 mil contract you have to expect to be in that situation a lot.
Tulo has been in that situation a lot
And failed every single time. It’s time to start calling a spade a spade. Troy Tulowitzki is baseball’s version of LeBron James, a terrific player when the game isn’t on the line, an absolutely horrible one when it is.
If this were true
Wouldn’t he have failed to hit a double and score the tying run in the 13th inning of that play in game or better yet play his best baseball in a month not named September when the pressure gets ramped up a few notches?
I'm pretty disgusted right now!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jul 18, 2011 11:24 PM MDT up reply actions
LeBron's had his moments, too
But he and Tulo have both developed quite the track record of choking way more often than not when the game’s on the line.
Why is Tulo so good in September then?
There’s more pressure in that month than any other. If he was a complete choke he wouldn’t be so good in that month.
I'm pretty disgusted right now!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jul 18, 2011 11:28 PM MDT up reply actions
I think it's the same reason LeBron's so good in the first couple rounds of the playoffs
But trying to analyze it beyond that is above my pay grade
Can't say I watch that much NBA but does Lebron really perform better in the first two months of the playoffs than he does in the regular season?
Because Tulo performs better in September than he does at any other point in the season.
I'm pretty disgusted right now!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jul 18, 2011 11:35 PM MDT up reply actions
He averages over 29 PPG in the first 3 rounds of the playoffs
Which is better than his career regular-season scoring average, people were saying before the Finals that he was playoffs MVP this year
I think Tulo's problem is that he is super streaky
We did not sign Mr. Consistent for 10 years. The Rockies signed a guy capable of going to werewolf mode and tearing up the ball at times, and looking completely foolish and lost at others. When he is on he’s nigh unstoppable. When he’s not… well we’ve seen that first hand over the last three days.
JFK's Quote of the Day (11:33pm MDT):
“You always get a special kick on opening day, no matter how many you go through. You look forward to it like a birthday party when you’re a kid. You think something wonderful is going to happen.” ~Joe DiMaggio
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
Quit blaming Tulo
It’s off-base and totally ridiculous. This is one of the better dudes in all of sports, a defensive mastermind, perennial MVP candidate and someone who just dedicated himself to this franchise for the next decade of his life and all we can do is sit here and whine about how he can’t get enough walk-off home runs or single-handedly win us ball games.
Give me a break. This teams problems go waaaay deeper than Tulo’s inability to come through in the bottom of the ninth with two outs. We have guys across the board that are underachieving or simply just not that good. We have injuries all the time, our “ace” is 5-8, Tracy is totally lost and can’t seem to grasp the concept of a potent lineup, the prospects that get sent up are contributing one day then suddenly vanish back down to the minors, etc.
This team as a whole is extremely dysfunctional and underachieving. Not one person should be blamed more than the other. But I will say this: I don’t think we’ve seen the worst of it yet. This has the potential to get real ugly. Also, we have vastly overrated our prospects and players as a whole on this team. Outside of Tulo, Cargo, Ubaldo, De La and Chacin there ain’t much on this team. If we want to compete we simply need more talent. Period.
by GoldenNugget on Jul 19, 2011 12:19 AM MDT via mobile reply actions 3 recs
but jim tracy is untouchable, and has nothing to do with how bad we are
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
i dont care if it's tracy's fault or not, i want heads to roll
Whom would you like to replace Tracy with, after ruling out all unavailable candidates?
by el campysino on Jul 19, 2011 12:25 AM MDT up reply actions
i dont see why vinny castilla couldn't do as well
i mean my 3 year old niece could probably do as well in all reality, but she’s unavailable at the moment
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
i dont care if it's tracy's fault or not, i want heads to roll
This is an unserious answer to a serious question.
by el campysino on Jul 19, 2011 12:34 AM MDT up reply actions
the first part is serious
the second part is not
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
i dont care if it's tracy's fault or not, i want heads to roll
I don't think anybody is saying that.
The argument seem to be about WHEN to replace Tracy. Some people want it to happen now (or in a week or whenever). Some people don’t think it’s worth doing now and think it would be better to do it after the offseason, when a proper managerial search can take place without the possible complications of an interim manager. People who feel the latter aren’t saying he’s untouchable or that he has no culpability.
Replacing manager is not the same as DFA’ing or demoting a player. It’s just not.
Replacing manager is not the same as DFA’ing or demoting a player. It’s just not.
…in your opinion.
o’dowd could very easily page tracy up to him, say “jim, pack your bags, you’re done,” page castilla (or whomever), say “well vinny, you’re interim manager, game’s at 6:10, line up cards are due like a half-hour before or something. good luck.”
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
i dont care if it's tracy's fault or not, i want heads to roll
And the reason to think this would lead to improvement is . . . ?
by el campysino on Jul 19, 2011 12:37 AM MDT up reply actions
Maybe the player's like Jim Tracy, and wouldn't take kindly to his dismissal?
I’m not saying this IS the case, but I think it’s a possibility.
What are they going to do?
Play worse?
I mean come on, we don’t know whats going on behind close doors but this can’t be a happy team. We’re just fans and we’re miserable. Imagine then. z
remember how in 2009 we started the year terrible with an underperforming team, fired the manager, and played great baseball to make the playoffs?
that’s the upside here. will that happen if we replace tracy? probably not, no, i think we’re in too deep a hole at this point in the season. but is it a chance we should take? absolutely.
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
i dont care if it's tracy's fault or not, i want heads to roll
The difference is that in 2009, we actually had a bench coach on staff...
….who had several years’ experience as a major league manager, including having taken a team to the playoffs.
Tom Runnels is not that guy (he hasn’t managed a club in decades and had no success when he did). Rich Dauer is not that guy. Vinny Castilla is not that guy. Glenallen Hill is not that guy.
"We have done everything possible to be set for this day, for this season. It's time to go. We are ready. I can promise you that." - CarGo
exactly
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
i dont care if it's tracy's fault or not, i want heads to roll
So let's just have "Manager Day" at Coors, and some lucky fan gets selected to manage the team.
by el campysino on Jul 19, 2011 12:55 AM MDT up reply actions
it would be fun, at least
better than toyota talk
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
i dont care if it's tracy's fault or not, i want heads to roll
Lot of truth in this statement.
Just an average guy with exceptional hair. Nothing more, nothing less.
Bear Naked - My thoughts on sports, music, and life.
by Bryan Kilpatrick on Jul 19, 2011 7:53 AM MDT up reply actions
i've said countless times in this thread
it doesnt need to lead to improvement. we’re beyond that at this point in the season, we’re 6 games under .500, 10 games back in the division to an SF team that defies all logic and shows no signs of slowing down and an arizona team that’s probably legit but might not be. what needs to happen, is just as lopez, paulino, morales, ey, nelson, amezega, etc, etc, were cast aside after failures unending, so should tracy be.
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
i dont care if it's tracy's fault or not, i want heads to roll
.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-07-19
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
i dont care if it's tracy's fault or not, i want heads to roll
and for fun,
http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2009-07-19
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
i dont care if it's tracy's fault or not, i want heads to roll
I never said it couldn't happen.
I just meant there are a lot of different considerations than in changing a player.
I’ll agree with most of what you said…but as a leader of a team and the best player on the team he must accept the failure of this team and shoulder at least part of the blame.
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jul 19, 2011 7:32 AM MDT up reply actions
There's no doubt in my mind that he's not shouldering the blame.
My biggest problem with Tulo at this point is that, in these high-leverage situations, he is going away from what has made him successful over the past few years – being aggressive with pitches in the zone. He swung at two balls and stared at a center-cut pitch on Sunday. Last night, he was dumbfounded by two crushable pitches and swung at another that bounced 3 feet in front of home plate.
I love the guy (he’s my second-favorite Rockie at this point) for all he can do on the baseball field. However, he needs to take a close look at his approach in late-and-close situations.
Just an average guy with exceptional hair. Nothing more, nothing less.
Bear Naked - My thoughts on sports, music, and life.
by Bryan Kilpatrick on Jul 19, 2011 7:59 AM MDT up reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Purple Row
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Get a grip: Reds’ Todd Frazier loses bat, still connects for home run (Video)
- Eric Hosmer redefines the Baltimore chop with infield double (Video)
- College player makes impossible over the fence catch to save tournament game (Video)
- Security!: Camden Yards guard collides with Royals’ Mike Moustakas
- The Juice: Nelson Cruz matches career high eight RBIs, Pujols stays hot in Seattle
