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On Matzek, Marshall, and Misjudgment

The Rockies’ twittersphere was abuzz this evening after Jake Etkin posted this article at Inside the Rockies on Matzek and his return to the Asheville rotation Wednesday evening. The crux of the Matzek story over the last month has not been the unconventional approach of sending a player outside the system to get help, but to send a prized (and expensive) prospect home to work with an instructor steeped in teachings that counter baseball conventional wisdom. While Etkin’s article was heavy in Marshall verbiage and technique, it’s important to try and scale this back and see just what you need to take out of it as it relates to Matzek and his new mechanics.

Star-divide

I’m not going to get into a big discussion on Marshall mechanics and the pros and cons of using them, as I myself am no expert on the subject. If you want a background into the antithema of the approach, here’s this excellent article from Yahoo’s Jeff Passan. To see these mechanics in their purest form, you can also watch this video on Jeff Sparks with Marshall’s annotations. What must you know about Marshall mechanics as it relates to Matzek? Probably just two points: pronation/arm slot and hip rotation/path to the plate. You’ll see the term pronation quite often with Marshall mechanics, and what they’re talking about is the rotation inward of the forearm, wrist, and hand, to where the elbow is pointing toward the sky and the thumb is pointing down at and immediately after release of the pitch. This is not uncommon for pitchers outside the Marshall teachings, and you see it quite often in circle change throwers. As you can see in this video from Mike Newman at Scouting the Sally, Matzek still featured some pronation in his Rockies-given mechanics, though in throwing across his body, the motion is less pronounced. If you watch this video from Matzek’s high school days, you can see the arm slot his instructor is looking that achieves the desired pronation. Getting Matzek’s arm slot higher will also help get Matzek more direct to the plate, which, obviously, should correct some of the command issues he has had over his professional career.

Getting more direct to the plate is also something address by hip/body rotation in Marshal mechanics. Obviously, Matzek is not pure Marshall, as he does have a leg kick in his delivery, but even in his high school video, Matzek showed less hip rotation than you’ll see in the average mechanics. This was seen as a bit of an issue mechanically because his hips open early compared to the desired conventional delivery. Matzek did appear to keep them closed better in the ’10 video, but obviously, Matzek’s instructor feels like over-rotation has led to some control issues. Once he returns, you can expect to see Matzek get his arm-slot back up to overhead-high three-quarters with less hip rotation early in the delivery. Obviously, these won’t be the only adjusted features of his delivery, but are probably the two easiest to notice differences.

The unanswered question remaining is just how much the Rockies knew about Matzek’s unconventional training regimen and whether it was wise to attempt to adjust this. While it’s hard to debate this without more insider knowledge (how many kids are drafted with unique training regimens that have to be changed? Was anyone aware of his Marshall ties?), I still believe it’s fair to question the judgment of taking a teenager early, making him a multi-millionaire, and then instantly work to overhaul a system that’s obviously worked in the past. Like the Bundy/Bauer long-toss debate of this draft, I tend to side with the players; if it isn’t broke, don’t fix it. If you don’t like pitcher’s throwing foul pole to foul pole, don’t draft one that feels that activity is essential to his success. Likewise, don’t draft a pitcher, make him the largest bonus recipient in club history, and then attempt to change the mechanics that made him the top high school left hander in his class. Should we have known about Matzek’s Marshall leanings? Probably so. I know I had questions about this after finding the above Matzek video shortly after the draft, but largely dismissed the notion due to Matzek not displaying the extreme characteristics of a true Marshall adoptee. Lastly, is it even a problem? We can’t answer this now, and if he cannot return to high school form, we may never be able to answer this. We can say that there are successful pitchers in MLB today that pronate their forearm from an over the top motion, and those that succeed without significant hip rotation. Nothing about Matzek’s high school delivery should suggest to us that he’s paving a unique trail with his motion.

So now we’ll see what Wednesday brings with the new Matzek. Odds are that he’s still early in his journey back, and I wouldn’t expect a 180 degree turnaround this season. We’re looking for baby steps right now; less walks, more consistent velocity, and more confidence to use all of his pitches in all situations. It’s still important to remember that Matzek is young; had he gone to Oregon he’d just have completed his sophomore year and would be prepping to be re-drafted as a junior in 2012. Should he work himself back into form enough to start next season back in Modesto, he’d still be on track to reach the bigs ahead of the average aged prospect. However, we cannot get ahead of ourselves until we see the results of a few starts in Asheville. Still, this start Wednesday night in Asheville marks the biggest outing of Matzek’s young career, one that will have the entire organization’s attention. Here’s hoping that progress begins tonight.

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So confused

I have a hard time with traditional baseball jargon as is. This had me way lost. I just hope we try whatever it takes to get this kid on track. It would be a real bummer to never see him prosper.

Hyperboles kill.
There is no such thing as a "George Karl fan;" there are Karl apologists, and those who realize he should be fired.
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by GoldenNugget on Jul 19, 2011 11:06 PM MDT reply actions  

a fascinating story to follow, to be sure

the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox

i dont care if it's tracy's fault or not, i want heads to roll

by papality on Jul 19, 2011 11:11 PM MDT reply actions  

This isn't the best example

But here’s an image of Jimenez with pronation in his wrist and forearm.

by David OhNo on Jul 19, 2011 11:26 PM MDT reply actions  

This is awesome dude, thanks.

I wholeheartedly agree that whatever the pitcher had been doing prior to being drafted should remain for the most part, as (presumably) their body has grown into that pitching style. I always feel that altering mechanics significantly can lead to injury…

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Jul 19, 2011 11:28 PM MDT reply actions  

I also had no idea about

the Matzek’s Marshall-background. Whenever I come across Marshall teachings it’s always fascinating. Makes me think that Lincecum helped make it okay for pitchers to do ‘unusual’ things as long as they felt comfortable and the results were there – just like the DBacks drafting Bauer or whoever with the elaborate, unorthodox warm-up routine.

New market inefficiency!

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Jul 19, 2011 11:36 PM MDT reply actions  

Marshall teachings are very fascinating

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Jul 20, 2011 7:54 AM MDT up reply actions  

David, in the article it mentions workouts with iron balls and wrist weights..

What is the purpose of this exercise and why would the pitching coach want him to practice it in secret?

by Charlie77 on Jul 20, 2011 12:18 AM MDT via mobile reply actions  

because its very unusual and goes against a lot of conventional thought and coaching philosophy

which the org probably doesnt like, although if he finds success like this, i doubt we hear another word against it

the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox

i dont care if it's tracy's fault or not, i want heads to roll

by papality on Jul 20, 2011 12:46 AM MDT up reply actions  

I can't speak to the purpose, aside from strengthening the wrist

But as Etkin states, these exercises require the special mechanics of the Marshall program, and attempting to use those exercise tools without the proper mechanics can lead to injury beyond what normal pitching could bring.

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by Andrew Martin on Jul 20, 2011 1:05 AM MDT up reply actions  

That's pretty much it.

By essentially using weights within the delivery, it should strengthen the muscles associated with the arm action. Because, as Passan notes, Marshall keeps his information within the program and shares little outside it, I’d say the effects of this is rather dubious.

Bottom line, if Peter Tago saw Matzek throw the iron ball and wanted to try it, it’s very likely he would put himself at risk for severe injury. However, it would behoove the Rockies to allow Matzek to continue this practice, if for anything else, it keeps him in routine and confident in his delivery.

by David OhNo on Jul 20, 2011 6:53 AM MDT up reply actions  

building off this (in response to Charlie)

there is a good amount of talk (amongst Marshall disciples, and just in general) around how the exercises that pitchers perform for strength and conditioning are just generic, traditional exercises that while not necessarily harmful, also don’t really target either the muscles, or the proper action of the muscles associated with pitching.

The iron balls and wrist weights are designed to basically allow the pitcher to go through pitching motions while improving those muscles in an ‘in-game’ manner.

Though it seems harmful to have pitchers ‘straining’ their arms with these exercises, I for one see the benefits of it when compared to just having pitchers take some laps and hit the weight room.

Regarding the last part about the fear of the exercises being ‘contagious’ – if a pitcher can utilize these weights to some degree in their wind-up, it may not be such a bad thing…

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Jul 20, 2011 11:27 AM MDT up reply actions  

It probably strengthens those muscles by specifically targeting them..

As a WR in HS I struggled with press coverage and getting off the ball quick enough. So I practiced the swim move using hand weights and it made me quick enough to beat the press.

The difference for pitchers is the motion of throwing overhand is harmful to the arm stressing ligaments to the point they break. So is strength training something that improves durability, or is it just another round in pitchers Russian Roulette?

by Charlie77 on Jul 20, 2011 4:48 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

Your last point and question is really the crux of it all

the only things I can say are 1. there is a logic to it so at least it’s not totally crazy (hooray??) and 2. I’m open to it since the current approach kind of sucks.

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Jul 21, 2011 12:00 AM MDT up reply actions  

And this is why I like baseball

so many different ways to do one thing.

"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK

by jrockies on Jul 20, 2011 6:32 AM MDT reply actions  

Marshall Mathers?

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Jul 20, 2011 7:55 AM MDT reply actions  

Sarah Marshall’s daddy.

...it's what you do that defines you.

by 7sky on Jul 21, 2011 4:59 PM MDT up reply actions  

Great stuff

I get most of what the pitching coach is talking about, especially the direct-line-to-the-plate mechanics, cutting out unnecessary rotation and sideways movement. Lincecum is the perfect example of that. How does such a little guy generate such velocity and control? He consistently keeps his body moving in a direct line to the plate.

I spent a lot of time (and money) on pitching lessons and monitoring mechanics for my daughter, a very successful fastpitch softball pitcher. The mantra that her excellent pitching coach preached over and over was keeping feet, hips and arms moving in a direct line to the plate, especially just prior to and during the release. I sure hope it works for Tyler Matzek, as it apparently once did.

And kudos to the Rockies. Not all organizations would have allowed a prize pitching prospect to leave the organization’s instructors and try unconventional methods. Instead of letting concerns about organizational failure override what’s best for the player, they put the player’s needs first. “Think outside the box” has become a cliche, but that’s what the Rockies needed to do with Matzek, and they should be recognized for doing it.

2011 Rockies -- what the hell?

by maris61 on Jul 20, 2011 8:15 AM MDT reply actions  

I wish in these videos the grips on the ball were displayed more;that's more fine tuning.

 In theory what Marshall is saying about pull hitters is correct. There will always be exceptions. In theory that is why Charlie Lau among others preached batters should hit more for contact and learn to pull as opportunity presents and not as a constant practice. At the start of a new pitcher’s era it’s a lesson I wish the Rox would heed.
  Please watch Sparks over and over again his landing foot and hand behind the head as nuance as to which pitch you are going to see. Follow how high each arc is as another key. The arm slot changes subtlely with each grip and foot landing placement. Watch the degree of pronation just after release. Watch these keys long enough and carefull enough and you’ll know which pitch is coming.

"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana

by Oldfoagie on Jul 20, 2011 3:14 PM MDT reply actions  

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