Sunday Rockpile: Will two major moves equate to one blockbuster for Rockies?
by Rox Girl on Jul 24, 2011 8:40 AM MDT
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PrintOne of the things that I don't get in all the hand wringing over the potential to lose Rockies players in this year's trade market is that Dan O'Dowd's trade history with the franchise shows that he will make many more mistakes giving up valuable prospects for MLB players of dubious value (see Jacob Cruz and Manny Delcarmen,) than he will in dealing MLB players of value (see Jason Jennings, Matt Holliday, etc..,) for prospects. O'Dowd's record of getting equal to better value than the traded player provides in the subsequent season is very good. Part of this seems to stem from a philosophy of not actually looking very deep onto other teams' farms when making trades. By limiting his focus to players on the cusp or even already starting their MLB careers, O'Dowd eliminates a lot of the risk that otherwise comes when dealing with farm talent.
So, with that in mind, we are having updates on the trade market (in this case from the Denver Post's Troy Renck) that indicate Chris Iannetta and Ty Wigginton are now the Rockies most likely to be traded by next week's deadline instead of Ubaldo Jimenez. While trading a superstar could be expected to provide a huge windfall, trading two decent players like Iannetta and Wigginton might equate to nearly as much value returned to the club for 2012 and beyond. If you add in expected contributions from their replacements already in the system (Wilin Rosario for Iannetta and likely Chris Nelson, but possibly Jordan Pacheco or Jimmy Cesario - a career .306 hitter in the minors, including .321 this season - for Wigginton,) to whatever the Rockies receive as MLB ready help in trade, the benefit to 2012's chances could be very large.
Other notes from the Denver Post:
- Rex Brothers is looking more closer worthy by the day - Huston Street hasn't been brought up in rumors, but the obvious consequence of Brothers' emergence is that Street becomes expendable. This could be an off-season move.
- Dexter Fowler's leg kick providing boost - As are others, I'm still sketched by his K rate, but so far, so good on his production since returning.
- Other notes - Denver Post
Beerer promoted to Triple-A Colorado Springs | Inside the Colorado Rockies - While some are probably going to question this move to promote Beerer instead of Tim Wheeler to the Sky Sox, it actually seems like a sign to me that Wheeler's Tulsa surge is forcing the organization's hand on a couple of older prospects like Beerer and Cole Garner. Clubs don't like to give up on prospects until they're certain they can't be useful. It seems to me a bit of due diligence before pushing Wheeler ahead.
Tourists get a lift from Garneau | The Asheville Citizen-Times | citizen-times.com - With all the negative press given to coaches in the Rockies organization from pundits for the Tyler Matzek situation, it's good to read of minor league coaches helping players reach their potential. Hitting advice given to Dustin Garneau has helped him take his play to another level. While Garneau's not a marquee name, keep an eye on 2010 first rounder Kyle Parker, who's exhibiting a similar power surge in the month of July.
Tyler Matzek his the reset button | - Sports - The Orange County Register - Speaking of Matzek.
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I have a hard time seeing us not trading Wigginton
we obviously need to give some time to Stewart (or maybe even Nelson), and Wigginton isn’t going to get much playing time for us for a team trying to take stock for next year. But he’s still a useful power RHB, and his numbers against lefties this year are fantastic. Some team will want him on their bench. I’d like to see Pacheco get the call up if Wiggy is traded, he can be the backup at 1B, 3B, and C and try out some new positions (1B, 3B) that the Rockies are interested in seeing him at.
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by black_knight101 on Jul 24, 2011 9:13 AM MDT reply actions
I have trouble considering trading Wiggy a "major move"
CDI would give us a couple decent prospects though
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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A few days ago, I didn't think the team would trade Wigginton.
But with Nelson tearing up AAA, he’s now expendable.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Jul 24, 2011 12:04 PM MDT up reply actions
Why not trade Ellis?
I know he just got here, but it seems like that would open up the most natural spot for Nelson.
JFK's Quote of the Day:
“The ballplayer who loses his head, who can’t keep his cool, is worse than no ballplayer at all.” ~Lou Gehrig
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
The list of free agnet closers this year
is pretty deep. If we are going to trade Street, we will get more value now than the off season. Bell, Capps, Broxton, Papelbon, and K-Rod are all free agents, and I expect Lidge, Nathan, and Soriana to join them.
Uh-huh, unloading Vernon Wells and his $80 million contract for Mike Napoli and Juan Rivera was pretty dumb.
I mean, Wells is so awesome, he’s worth all that.
signing him to that contract was uber dumb
so they even out, and trading Napoli for Frank Francisco was also dumb.
the current GM isn't the one that signed him to that contract.
Anthopolous has been mostly a positive in his moves for the Jays. I will agree that Napoli for Francisco was misguided, at best.
Science!
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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It means whatever you want it to!
Science! It means whatever you want it to!
by realmenwearpurple on Jul 24, 2011 10:42 AM MDT up reply actions
How can you not like the Blue Jays?
If the Taliban had a team in the AL East, I would root for them to steal a playoff spot from the Yankees and/or Sawxx.
by Northsider1964 on Jul 24, 2011 10:48 AM MDT up reply actions
I'm canadian
so whenever someone finds out I follow baseball they assume I’m a Jays fan, I was an A’s fan (because of my Dad) before the Rockies and Expos in between, so I have had the Jays shoved down my throat most of my life, Toronto is over 2,700 km away from me I share no geographical alliance with them, and Toronto people and media care little for things outside the GTA.
/rant over
Poutine is wonderful and I'm not even Canadian.
Paleface Destro: The Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The 2011 Rockies: More extreme than Colorado's weather
I snark because I care.
by Paleface Destro on Jul 24, 2011 11:16 AM MDT up reply actions
Couldn't agree more
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by Andrew Martin on Jul 24, 2011 12:51 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
if i were a GM i probably wouldnt trade with the blue jays
Out of pure fear that I was getting fleeced by AA without knowing it
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by black_knight101 on Jul 24, 2011 10:31 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Hey RG
what gives on the slam on me a couple of days ago? You have taken yourself out of the running for the the next…….
by PinchHitLancePainter on Jul 24, 2011 10:45 AM MDT up reply actions
ouch... that really hurts. Let me go cry in a corner or something. Or maybe just watch some chick flick.
Okay. All better now. Gee, that was easier to get over than I thought.
Anyway, it was meant to be more a friendly jab. I actually do respect your background and thoughts probably a lot more than most posters here. Nobody’s infallible though, surprisingly even me, unfortunately, so I think we all need to be reminded of it every so often.
Well, that and it was really funny
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by Andrew Martin on Jul 24, 2011 12:52 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
That's a good point.
It looks like Brothers is close to the closing job anyway. Trade Street.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Jul 24, 2011 12:04 PM MDT up reply actions
We have a lot of these players:
Slightly below average to slightly above average. by moving a few of them independently i can’t see us fetching prospects or MLB ready guys who transcend that category. Iannetta is a slightly above average all around catcher in my opinion, and would theoretically be replaced by Rosario. Would Iannetta really bring back a player who would be a significant upgrade to what we already have at one of second base, third base, center field or the back end of the rotation? I see him carrying more value as a Rockie than as trade bait at this point.
"Uh, everything's under control. Situation normal.
**What happened?
We had a slight weapons malfunction, but, uh, everything's perfectly all right now. We're fine, we're all fine here now, thank you. How are you?
I think you undersell Iannetta's trade value. Catcher's hard to fill to begin with, and to get any offense at all from the position is often a bonus.
Which is sort of your point, but that point makes it very likely that teams will be willing to offer multiple players elsewhere for one quality catcher. Not necessarily All-Star level prospects, but if you get a contender worthy 3B type or near ready SP, it should equate to an overall upgrade for the team added to Rosario’s expected contribution. Even the other positions could see some help. The Pirates for instance, could trade players like Josh Harrison (2B) or Gorkys Hernandez (CF) and not dent their future much, and their combined potential upgrades to what the Rockies would play at those positions in 2012 added to Rosario’s contribution should beat what we would expect from keeping Iannetta and letting Rosario contribute to the Sky Sox. If we’re particularly lucky, maybe they’ve soured enough on Pedro Alvarez to trade him instead (this is highly unlikely given how he’s been tearing up AAA of late.)
I may be underselling his true value
and I could also be underselling Huntington’s desire for a catcher (I’m in agreement with most that the Pirates are the most likely team to come calling for his services). That could create a trade that would work well for both sides. If we trade him for prospects with average ceilings or borderline starters, I can’t help but feel slighted just because we already have a ton of those guys already at our positions of need. It would just add to the clutter. I’d rather we shore up the way we develop and draft players than making sideways trades at the major league or near major league levels. Iannetta is probably gone at some point anyways with Rosario close behind, but I’d like to see him used in addition with a few other pieces in a trade for an extremely solid piece instead of being moved alone for guys who probably aren’t that much better (if at all) than what we already have.
"Uh, everything's under control. Situation normal.
**What happened?
We had a slight weapons malfunction, but, uh, everything's perfectly all right now. We're fine, we're all fine here now, thank you. How are you?
although part of me thinks
because Rosario is so close, now might be the time to capitalize. If that’s the case I just hope other teams value him enough to give up solid prospects. That’s obviously my main concern.
"Uh, everything's under control. Situation normal.
**What happened?
We had a slight weapons malfunction, but, uh, everything's perfectly all right now. We're fine, we're all fine here now, thank you. How are you?
Pirates have gone through seven (?) catchers this year?
They’d love the stability and offense of CDI. This playoff run has invigorated a franchise that desperately needed it. If the price isn’t too high, I think they should buy at the deadline and go for it
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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seven or eight
I had the number in the cdi article somewhere
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by Andrew Martin on Jul 24, 2011 12:53 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
I can't see them moving him just yet.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
I'd throw a party
(I’ve been saying that a lot lately, to no avail)
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
I wouldn't got that far
but I sure would love to see it happen. Would be fun to see two former can’t miss prospects fighting for 3rd base.
We should try and make a move
We have nothing to lose at this point. If we do make a trade though we have to package two or three guys together like the poster above mentions, that wa we can get one solid every-day type of player in return.
Is be hesitant to trade Iannetta though. I think good catches are more rare than people think. If Rosario is undoubtedly going to be better and can play immediately, then that changes things, but I’d hate to see us stuck with Alfonnzo the rest of the way.
Also, I’m totally against trading Street just because Brothers looks good. That makes zero sense to me. I think Brothers deserves a chance to start with the way Cook and Hammel are pitching these days. What could it hurt? Either way, you can never have too many pitchers imo. No need to trade them.
by GoldenNugget on Jul 24, 2011 10:47 AM MDT via mobile reply actions
it could ruin his arm
no minor league starts and I’m pretty sure he closed in college as well
"Uh, everything's under control. Situation normal.
**What happened?
We had a slight weapons malfunction, but, uh, everything's perfectly all right now. We're fine, we're all fine here now, thank you. How are you?
yeah
and given the organization’s concern about his control/velocity drop on the second half of back to back outings, I can’t see them being excited at an increase in workload
"Uh, everything's under control. Situation normal.
**What happened?
We had a slight weapons malfunction, but, uh, everything's perfectly all right now. We're fine, we're all fine here now, thank you. How are you?
No.
This is something that just never happens. Closers and set up guys are almost never converted back to starters. They have usually been relieving since high school/college, and have scrapped lesser pitches to focus one two plus pitches. To go back would take a year or two of condition to regain stamina and to re-find old pitches.
The only recent example I can think of where it worked is CJ Wilson, but he was a rare 4 pitch closer.
Thats the only reason I suggested it
Cuz I knew Wilson made the transition. I definitely don’t know the ins and outs of baseball like a lot of people here, but I still don’t think we should trade Street just because Brothers is playing good.
by GoldenNugget on Jul 24, 2011 1:44 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Well, the reasoning behind it
is Brothers is very much looking like a closer now. So, with the season down the toilet, you move the much larger salary of Street, get a solid prospect out of it, and let Brothers evolve into that position.
even a five post interchange
about brothers moving into the rotation is a discussion that’s lasted a few posts too long
"Uh, everything's under control. Situation normal.
**What happened?
We had a slight weapons malfunction, but, uh, everything's perfectly all right now. We're fine, we're all fine here now, thank you. How are you?
He was a college starter....
FWIW.
Don’t take this as an endorsement of him as a starter, however.
It will not break my heart to see any position players, or Street, go
But only if the Rockies get quality starting pitching in return. Until the starting pitching improves, I don’t see this team taking a step forward. And yeah, I know the pitching staff more or less kept the team afloat earlier this year when the offense couldn’t get out of its own way. But it was because they ham-and-egged it for a few weeks and got solid work from the bullpen. Nice work from Morty, a couple of solid outings from Reynolds and Rogers – but nothing that holds up over the long term.
I know that no contender is going to give up MLB-ready starters in the middle of a race. But of the Rockies could get a couple of good prospects to put with Ubaldo, JDLR, Chacin and hopefully Nicasio going forward, I would applaud loudly.
by Northsider1964 on Jul 24, 2011 11:04 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs
This season is lost
the more you do to restock yourself the better given they are thin top end Next year they will have a pretty formidable staff with Ubaldo, Chacin and Nicasio. They need to locate another couple of starters and I believe Rogers is one. No DLR until late next year at best. The game is all about pitching, defense and timely hitting. Their bullpen needs a few plugs but I believe Brothers and Reynolds are solid placemarks. Street can bring you value now and you have low cost replacement. Make the deal. You are set at 1B, 2B or 3B (wherever you decide to play Nelson), SS, CF, If you trade Iannetta and bring up Rosario you will be plus defense/minus offense which is likely a wash. It will be a year or two before Rosario becomes a Ruiz but he is a good kid and I see him improving. Your problem spots are wherever Nelson does not play and corner OF. That is why I advocate trading Smith, Fowler, Stewart, Iannetta and Street, etc. Herrera is serviceable in a utility role as it Spilborghs. Young is a big question mark.
Gonzales is the best CF in baseball and should play there everyday. I know Smith is beloved by many here but he a minus defensive player and streaky at the plate. Get another inning eater as SP and look for an affordable corner OF bat (preferably RH) in the offseason. They will contend next year.
by PinchHitLancePainter on Jul 24, 2011 11:14 AM MDT reply actions
I pretty much concur
Except the Rockies aren’t really set at 2B unless the re-sign Ellis, and you are higher on Rogers than I am.
I think Rogers is a good kid with a good arm, who got jerked around a lot last year instead of being allowed to settle into a role. But even so, I just have a hard time seeing him as a reliable MLB starter whose stuff holds up over a full season.
by Northsider1964 on Jul 24, 2011 11:21 AM MDT up reply actions
Rogers has filthy stuff
and I think he is still learning to pitch, so he could yet develop into a reliable MLB starter. I hope he gets that opportunity. I would like to see Nelson at 3b for the remainder of the year to see what he can do – Stewart has been given every opportunity to earn the job but we all know how well that has gone.
Well said, I pretty much agree.
I don’t think Stewart seems to have any value around the league right now, though, he’s already an Atkins in that regard. The Rockies might be better off just hanging on to him through next Spring with no guarantees that he breaks camp with the club. The rest do, though, and now is probably the time to make an omelet out of all these broken eggs.
Hey, I agree too
But, if we do trade Smith, I want a young, cheap starter who is no worse than a 3rd starter along with a solid prospect. He is a guy who does provide value and is still pretty young and cheap. He has by far the most value of the group you mentioned. As for Rogers, they need to start converting him to a relief role.
Why would a team that want Smith trade a 3rd starter
That makes zero sense.
by rururuland784 on Jul 24, 2011 12:59 PM MDT up reply actions
Exactly
Of course you trade him if you can land a quality 3rd starter. THat’s a no-brainer. I just can’t evision a scenario where a team looking to add a bat like Smith would give that kind of player. Buyers are contenders.
by rururuland784 on Jul 24, 2011 1:16 PM MDT up reply actions
Why would the team give up on Fowler now
For one, why should anyone give up on Fowler the player now, either as a CF or as piece we move (who’s value increases?)
by rururuland784 on Jul 24, 2011 1:01 PM MDT up reply actions
How is Reynolds a solid placemark?
Seriously. Rogers and Nelson……Man, sure wish we could get back into trade talks with the team you work for.
by rururuland784 on Jul 24, 2011 1:09 PM MDT up reply actions
Matt Reynolds a solid placemark in the pen he means.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Jul 24, 2011 1:10 PM MDT up reply actions
That's how I read it
and I agree.
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
Reynolds is a journeyman lefty
Who’s average at best.
I understanding trading Street now, but not under the condition that Reynolds is a foundational piece going forward.
by rururuland784 on Jul 24, 2011 1:19 PM MDT up reply actions
Yeah, quite a journey that the 26 year-old Reynolds has been on in his two year big league career.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
he'll be a journeyman lefty
It’s a modifier that works both ways on a time continuum.
by rururuland784 on Jul 24, 2011 1:23 PM MDT up reply actions
Oh, got a fingertip on that one trying for the save, but it’s in the back of the net anyway.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
by Franchise26 on Jul 24, 2011 1:24 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Puck would be a good way to describe you
in this instance
by rururuland784 on Jul 24, 2011 1:30 PM MDT up reply actions
Journeyman?
He was a rookie last year and the only person I’ve seen him have a lot of difficulty with this year is Freddie Freeman. Reynolds is only getting better as he learns the game at this level.
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
Unfortunately you can't learn stuff
There is a reason he was a 20th round selection.
He’s a nice little player, but below average LHP relievers aren’t really prized commodities.
by rururuland784 on Jul 24, 2011 1:26 PM MDT up reply actions
(blank) had a couple of rough outings lately
Therefore he’s of no value going forward.
Reminds me of the guy I argued with in the Post comments when he wanted to dump Brothers after the Tigers series.
by Northsider1964 on Jul 24, 2011 1:29 PM MDT up reply actions
I don't mean to be rude
But follow the thread. I was arguing with the idea that he’s a placemark in the ’pen moving forward, therefore a reason others guys in the ’pen can be looked at as expendable.
by rururuland784 on Jul 24, 2011 1:33 PM MDT up reply actions
I read the thread
And I think Reynolds is and will be a much better than average lefty reliever. The fact that the Rockies found him in the 20th round is of no interest to me – I would rather look at how he’s performed over the last calendar year.
by Northsider1964 on Jul 24, 2011 1:41 PM MDT up reply actions
There was also
a reason Mike Piazza was a 62nd round selection and Pujols a 13th round pick (neither of which was money). These were just the first two that came to mind for later round selections that worked out very well.
If you have any question about his ability check the rest of that Rockies 2007 draft class and see that only Bruce Billings and Chris Sale have made the majors from that draft.
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
Left-handed relievers have more immediate value
Again, I don’t think he’s terrible. In fact, as a second lefty he brings some decent value. But, he’s not really a guy you’re going to build your bullpen around.
As far as left-handed MLB relievers go, he’s average at best.
by rururuland784 on Jul 24, 2011 1:36 PM MDT up reply actions
Reynolds is a situational LHP,
and stuff wise, he compares favorably to most of them. Salary wise, there’s no contest. As long as he’s near the minimum, he’s a guy the Rockies are best off keeping, or in other words, a place-marker. Huh, look at that.
We read PHLP's argument differently
Never argued here that we should trade him.
by rururuland784 on Jul 24, 2011 1:48 PM MDT up reply actions
A situational lefty
Who’s also shown the ability to handle righties pretty well and serve as a long man when needed. There were a couple of times last year when he got the call early in a game and kept it close, allowing the team to come back. He wasn’t ued that way this year, because the team couldn’t afford to use him early. I don’t think there are more than a handful of teams in the league that would pass on Reynolds if given the opportunity to put him their bullpen mix right now. Sure he’s not going to crack the Braves’ pen, but after that the list is not very long.
by Northsider1964 on Jul 24, 2011 1:48 PM MDT up reply actions
No offense to Cargo
but he’s not that good in CF. I don’t think he’s even as good as Fowler and he certainly isn’t as good as Cutch or Guttierez.
he's a better hitter than all of them put together, though
except maybe mccutchen, if the power ends up being real
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
i dont care if it's tracy's fault or not, i want heads to roll
All this aside
what the hell has happened to Jason Hammel? He went from a guy who’s pitching great through tough losses (where he got not run support) to a guy who gives up 5 runs in the first inning.
Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe
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by Jeffrey Morton on Jul 24, 2011 11:18 AM MDT reply actions
He has no out pitch anymore
With the struggles of Chacin added to Cook and Hammel….I can see why the Rockies can’t seem to make up any ground. Although Cook won his last start.
Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe
DenverStiffs.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jmorton78
by Jeffrey Morton on Jul 24, 2011 11:26 AM MDT up reply actions
This team is just a mess all around.
I don’t see how we can pin the failures on any particular player. It’s collective failure.
"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
I pinned it on three people Cat...not just one :-p
Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe
DenverStiffs.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jmorton78
by Jeffrey Morton on Jul 24, 2011 11:30 AM MDT up reply actions
My point is that
other than Helton(and even HE barfed up some weird errors recently)no one has been consistent. It’s so bizarre.
"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
It's been a bad year....
this organization has to look inward again. I feel bad for the fans (who still come to the ballpark which is both a good thing and a bad thing) and most of all Todd who is having his best year in 5 completely wasted by the team and injuries.
Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe
DenverStiffs.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jmorton78
by Jeffrey Morton on Jul 24, 2011 11:35 AM MDT up reply actions
Yep. You know me JMo
I’m generally an Optimism Warrior when it comes to the Rockies (and Nuggets too) but oh it’s so hard right now. My heart is actually more than a little broken at what’s happened this season.
"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
I think he's asking why is Jason suddenly
walking more guys and striking out less. It’s a mystery.
"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
I was surprised
to look at Hammel’s stats today- he’s barely been worse than last year, and is on pace to have his best baseball-reference WAR season ever. ERA is right where it was in 2009, WHIP is too. Walks are up but hits are down. The missing Ks is the only real deviation, but given how awesome he was for the first 8 weeks of the season, he’s putting together the same kind of year he did the past 2 seasons (except without strikeouts).
Wait, what's his real name? We should make a joke out of that.
by BrandonHawpe on Jul 24, 2011 11:33 AM MDT up reply actions
Although I will add
That I for one have absolutely no confidence in him taking the mound right now. If game 7 of the World Series was tomorrow, and I got to choose the starter, but I could only take Cook or Hammel… I’d go with 9 innings of bullpen.
Wait, what's his real name? We should make a joke out of that.
by BrandonHawpe on Jul 24, 2011 11:35 AM MDT up reply actions
I'd say this is the one instance when looking at stats can't give you the full picture
just seeing Hammel out there you are noticing he can’t figure out what’s wrong and he has a serious lack of confidence.
Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe
DenverStiffs.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jmorton78
by Jeffrey Morton on Jul 24, 2011 11:36 AM MDT up reply actions
I'm just a half step above a DenverPost poster but this is how I see things.
Rogers , Rosario ,EY2, Stewart and Spilly should all be traded at the deadline.
After the season ends give Tracy his walking papers along with Cook and Hammel.
I am worried that Cargo will be out more because of his injuries.
Tulo is the most aggravating player…get a grip,son !
okay you can all scroll along now…I’ve had made Dillusional Rant… :)
Actually, saying ‘’trade Rosario’ would indicate a step below a DP commenter. Don’t have as big a problem with the rest, but that’s in particular ‘What the H?’ material.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
by Franchise26 on Jul 24, 2011 11:46 AM MDT up reply actions
Well I also don't understand why Rogers would have to go.
He has no value, and he probably should get more time to start before the team thinks about trading him..
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Jul 24, 2011 12:12 PM MDT up reply actions
It's an interesting reverse of the trade CDI argument,
I actually can’t say that it’s completely without merit. As mentioned above, catchers are hard to come by, and it could be that some team values Rosario enough to give a solid MLB player/pitcher in trade. I do think the Rockies would likely be trading down in overall value for the next three or four seasons by doing this, but if you’re particularly sour on Rosario’s chances with that contact rate, there’s some sense to going this route.
Wut..
Rosario??
You mean cdi
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Jul 24, 2011 11:56 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Rox lineup
Fowler CF
Herrera 2B
Helton 1B
Tulowitzki SS
Smith RF
Wigginton 3B
Spilborghs LF
Iannetta C
Jimenez P
no “B lineup” today
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by black_knight101 on Jul 24, 2011 12:20 PM MDT reply actions
Wigginton again.
Makes me think the team really is showcasing him now.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Jul 24, 2011 12:21 PM MDT up reply actions
Yep. Same with Spilly
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Probably
But that’s clearly the reason Ey was called up as well.
by rururuland784 on Jul 24, 2011 1:04 PM MDT up reply actions
yeah that was my thought as well
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by black_knight101 on Jul 24, 2011 12:22 PM MDT up reply actions
It would be great to win on a Sunday at some point this season.
It’s getting sort of embarrassing at this point.
well this might be the best lineup we've put out there on a Sunday in a while
even with CarGo hurt. and we’ve got Ubaldo pitching.
Check out my blog about undergraduate science research
by black_knight101 on Jul 24, 2011 12:28 PM MDT up reply actions
Well losing on Sunday would be the ONE consistent thing we will have done this season.
"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Dbacks working on a trade for Wandy Rodriguez?
It almost makes sense for them. Almost.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
they don't have a regular lefty starter, and Wandy isn't a rental
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 24, 2011 12:41 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
We don't either until mid-to-late next year
/I’m not suggesting trading for him though
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
To be sure.
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
The only thing about O'Dowd that worry me are:
He gave away Jamey Carroll
He gave away Jeff Baker
Did he pull the trigger too early on Felipe Paulino?
Small things to be sure but…
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
I think Carroll left as a FA
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
No, traded for some PTBNL with Cleveland who vanished into nothing.
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
You did read the last line, yes?
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
Haha Jeff Baker? Puh-lease
Jeff Baker is a cheaper but much worse version of Wigginton. Done slightly maybe a tiny bit more than nothing for the Cubs. Career OPS against righties: .664. We’re not missing Jeff Baker.
Carroll, on the other hand, would have been awful nice to have this year.
Wait, what's his real name? We should make a joke out of that.
by BrandonHawpe on Jul 24, 2011 1:29 PM MDT up reply actions
Remember though that we gave up on Carroll
in a year he hit .225
by rururuland784 on Jul 24, 2011 1:37 PM MDT up reply actions
Agree
And if your team is really going to contend, you need to develop players better than Baker and Carroll. Nothing against either of them, but if you’re really wishing you had those guys back, something’s not working.
by Northsider1964 on Jul 24, 2011 1:50 PM MDT up reply actions
Yet Baker's still with the Cubs and Al Albuquerque is...?
again, I said they were small things.
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
"still with the Cubs" is damning with faint praise.
He’s a role player with one of the five worst teams in MLB.
"We have done everything possible to be set for this day, for this season. It's time to go. We are ready. I can promise you that." - CarGo
Why do the Rockies care if he's still with the Cubs
if he’s still not good and wouldn’t be playing any kind of a role for the Rockies? You can’t just say that because the team got nothing in return for someone that it was a bad move for the GM to trade them. It’s a neutral move if you give nothing and get nothing, which was the case with Baker.
Wait, what's his real name? We should make a joke out of that.
by BrandonHawpe on Jul 24, 2011 1:54 PM MDT up reply actions
Baseball America had a similar story on Matzek...
I didn’t know that Mike Marshall had become a doctor whose methods are shunned by MLB. I think, if anything, the Rox org deserves credit for giving Marshall’s philosophy a whirl.
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
I'm starting to get in the "Trade RafBet at the Deadline" bandwagon.
He has been pretty fantastic in his last 5 or 6 appearances, and that alone could bring his trade value back up to an acceptable level. He has to finish strong through the Deadline to keep teams’ interest though.
@CentralCaliRox
You have to wonder how much of his success in his first 1 1/2 year was due to changing leagues
Again, I like any deal that nets a value surplus, but if we’re going to contend next year that’s another guy we’ll have to replace. He may be able to bounce back and provide quality in 7th and 8th innings.
by rururuland784 on Jul 24, 2011 1:40 PM MDT up reply actions
He's only getting older, and less reliable.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Jul 24, 2011 1:41 PM MDT up reply actions
Might be a usage thing..... Might be a down year
I see control issues and an over-use of the fastball.
I don’t see stuff declining.
A lot of relievers stay effective above 34/35.
by rururuland784 on Jul 24, 2011 1:42 PM MDT up reply actions
His control isn't as pinpoint as it was
Before this season, and even early this season.
I’m a Betancourt fan, but I’ve always worried about how well he would age. Crafty relievers can pitch till they’re 40, but Raffy’s always been anything but crafty. He’s been effective because he could hit a misquito right between the eyes with a knee-high, 93-94 mph fastball. And whether he still can, is a big question.
by Northsider1964 on Jul 24, 2011 1:56 PM MDT up reply actions
His k's are higher than they were last year
His bb are lower
but his babip is higher. And the time’s he has missed his spots (early in the year) were painful and memorable.
Quality reliever still and I don’t see a drop-off in stuff.
by rururuland784 on Jul 24, 2011 1:59 PM MDT up reply actions
He was terrific early in the year
And maybe he’ll bounce back have a great second half like he did last year. But there’s no way he was simply unlucky over that recent 6-7 week bad stretch. He was getting hurt on a lot of thigh-high pitches in the middle of the plate.
I like the guy and think he’s maybe O’Dowd’s best ever in-season pickup. But I’m worried he may not have that much left.
by Northsider1964 on Jul 24, 2011 2:09 PM MDT up reply actions
I'd move him for value.
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
OT: Watching Phily v SD
Denorfia made an amazing catch over the bullpen fence in Philly. And the Philly fans gave him an ovation.
I’ve never seen such a thing at Philly.
"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
I'm sure that among those cheers
There were also plenty of Phillies fans hurling racial slurs at Denorfia based on whatever they guessed his background might be
Wait, what's his real name? We should make a joke out of that.
by BrandonHawpe on Jul 24, 2011 2:00 PM MDT up reply actions
Well he's about as white as he could look sooo
I don’t really understand what this means.
"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
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