Thursday Rockpile: Astros wanted too much for Wandy, but Rockies pattern of stasis continues
by Rox Girl on Aug 25, 2011 8:25 AM MDT
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Dan O'Dowd continues to look into ways to improve the Rockies club, and it seems that he'd really like to be able to do it without giving up anything at all, or at least not much.
Wandy Rodriguez? Too rich for the Rockies liking.
Gavin Floyd? Foolhardy to even think it was possible last winter, or now, according to Chicago media.
Remember Michael Young? Texas also balked at the Rockies offer. At some point, all of this adds up and you recognize that they all couldn't be terrible deals for Colorado. What O'Dowd wants to be able to pull off is another move like the one that acquired Jason Hammel (who was sharp in relief yesterday) or the trade for Jorge De La Rosa. The difference now is that he wants to be able to do this type deal with established quality starters rather than the promising but still prospective pitchers that Hammel and De La Rosa were. So while like all Rockies fans, I dream on David Wright playing in purple, I seriously doubt O'Dowd's willingness to pay the price in prospects that acquiring that level of player demands, even were he to become available.
Despite the ravings of people that don't understand the sizable financial differences between LA and SF and the rest of the NL West markets, the Rockies really can't afford to play the free agent money game and remain viable long term, and given the fickleness of minor league development, at some point trades for established players will have to be used to bring the Rockies from decent and perpetually on the verge of contention to a legitimate contention level.
So instead, that leaves us fans with:
Woot. It's yet another nice value/hope-the-upside-materializes play by the F.O. and while there's ultimately a decent return for consistently making quality decisions with this type of move (oh hey look, Jose Lopez is batting .333/.344/.767 in 10 games since being recalled by Florida,) it's still leaving that big blank space in O'Dowd's record in the tier of trades for established MLB players above this.
As the Ubaldo Jimenez deal is already showing, O'Dowd has displayed he does have acumen in the reverse situation, trading an established player for prospects, but if the Rockies really want to contend regularly during this Carlos Gonzalez/Troy Tulowitzki period, I think he needs to show that he can better supplement his stars with an established and quality supporting cast.
Also noted:
- Dan Lucero's great piece on Troy Tulowitzki at SBN Denver
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Agreed completely
I was saying the very same things on Twitter yesterday.
The Ubaldo trade was a huge new step for O’Dowd; trading top prospects to upgrade the current roster is the final piece of the puzzle. I just hope he can pull the trigger when the time comes, as he’s shown to be gun-shy about this in the past.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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Here are the Current FWAR leaders aquired by trade
Jose Bautista, Ben Zobrist, Curtis Granderson, Adrian Gonzalez, Jhonny Peralta, Yunel Escobar, Cameron Maybin, Brandon Phillips, Asdrubal Cabrera, this is a combination of failed top prospects “getting it”(Maybin, Phillips) players about to hit expensive FA(AGon), nobody saw this coming(Zobrist, Bautista) and already expensive but still a bargain(Granderson) over 1/2 of the top 35 FWAR leaders(18) were drafted by the team they are on with almost all taken in the top two rounds.
Even the Yankees with their ridiculous payroll have acquired several starters in trade(Swisher, Grandy) but it is pretty clear that getting 1-2 round draft picks and developing latin talent is the pathway to sustained success
~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~
If you look at the current eight projected playoff teams, these are their top WAR contributors acquired via trade:
AL:
Boston:
Adrian Gonzalez
Josh Beckett
New York
Granderson
Texas:
Josh Hamilton
Matt Harrison
Detroit:
Miguel Cabrera
Max Scherzer
NL:
Philadelphia:
Halladay
Oswalt
Atlanta
Tim Hudson
Jair Jurrjens
Dan Uggla
Milwaukee:
Zack Greinke
Shaun Marcum
Arizona:
Daniel Hudson
Ian Kennedy
Of those 16 trades, 11 were of the type I’m talking about of a team giving up prospects for an established player. You say it’s clear that the only way to build is through the farm, but if you take away Halladay and Oswalt from Philly, Hudson and Uggla from Atlanta, or even Kennedy from the D-backs (they gave up Scherzer and Schlereth to get him) and those teams look a lot weaker. You need to approach team building from all angles, and so far O’Dowd’s been leaving this one out.
by this point I would argue
that Tim Hudson and Miguel Cabrera were as much aquired by FA as by trade, Scherzer, Kennedy, Hudson, Jurrjens, Hamilton and Harrison were as much about trading for an uproven talent as much as anything else. What almost every trade up their tells me is that we need more scouting in this org. Every player on that list was acquired by a team parting with a player made redundant by talented replacement players already in the system.
~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~
Players really don't like moving around in trades
acquiring a Cabrera or Hudson that way is typically the prelude re-signing them, as neither tested the open FA market after getting acquired. Same goes for Holliday with the Cardinals. I’ll agree that the Rockies need better scouting too, but it’s not an either/or situation, it’s both.
True but if you don't have top tier prospects to trade you don't get MLB players
the Uggla trade aside of course. What that list you have illustrates is that teams like the Braves know how to sell high on MIF coming off of BABIP driven success (Renteria for Jurrjens, Uggla for Infante and a Reliever) or rather unlike us with Hawpe, Atkins, Baker, and our crazy collection of middle IF prospects from a few years back they are willing to deal from a position of strength to sustain success.
~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~
Interesting take
I’m just not sure what a “trade prospects for a big-time player” move would look like, or how it would fit in the mid-market model DOD’s running. It operates on maximizing the value of cheap, young players to complement the cheap, young players who become stars and get long-term contracts. Turning a number of cheap, young players into another expensive star might work. But it also might run you out of complementary pieces. There might be enough of a talent margin in the minors to try it next year sometime.
Altar Boy in the Church of Santo Ubaldo
"...buffalo chicken is a fine anti-depressant, after all." -UZ
"... One order of buffalo wings, please..." -Yokel, after July 30, 2011
David Wright would be a huge risk
He’s having a horrible year as many 3rd baseman are and it would take a huge offer to get him to Colorado. Add on top of that a $15M salary, his DL stints for this and prior years, and inching closer to 30, and that’s a risk that may completely backfire.
We have our two stars on offensive and as Mkorpal pointed out below, the hitting is not the issue. We have our issues at third base but David Wright is the not the ideal answer.
He's pretty durable.
He’s taken a hit this year though, and the numbers have reflected that.
David Wright is really just a dream acquisition. I don’t think DOD can get him here
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Aug 25, 2011 9:23 AM MDT up reply actions
I'm not on board the Wright train, either.
I think it’s a bad move.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
though he is only signed through 2012, since that 2013 option is voidable upon trade.
That puts him as a very expensive stopgap for Arenado. Hmm.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
$15m in 2012
$16m player option for 2013 with a $1m buyout, but Wright can void this option if traded.
That being said, I don’t see him voiding the option.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
correction: 2013 is a club option
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Yeah didn't realize it was a one year deal
after a trade. I feel better now since we (DOD) definitely wouldn’t do that.
Agree with this...
Since he got that concussion he’s not been the same player. A lot more lulls then peaks. I’m fine with a stop gap next year over a Cuddyer type of player. Now if you can get Cuddyer at a reasonable deal I change my stance. But I forsee the voids around the league making him a bit of a overpay potential.
If only Pujols could play 3rd…or at least until Todd retired. Dare to dream…
wow, a .349 wOBA is a horrible year now?
by whose standard, bautista?
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
2012: get ready for White Pomz!
Not horrible, and it's above average
but for the price tag, it needs to be much better than above average.
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by Andrew Martin on Aug 25, 2011 12:26 PM MDT up reply actions
$14mil this year
he would need to produce about 2.66 WAR to make up for it, and he’s currently at half that, but that’s just due to playing time, and i’m really not sold on UZR disliking his defense
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
2012: get ready for White Pomz!
ZiPS has him at .358 for the rest of the season,
I’m guessing that’s probably pretty close to what the projection sees his 2012 looking like as well. I think that’s worth the salary.
If he can rebound to All Star levels like we're talking, sure
But if we need to blow the Mets over like the Indians blew us over, I need to be astounded by David Wright.
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by Andrew Martin on Aug 25, 2011 12:37 PM MDT up reply actions
fair enough
and concerns about his health are legitimate given the nature of the injury he suffered this year
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
2012: get ready for White Pomz!
Realisticly I'd still think we should make a run at SD for CHeadley.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
I agree
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by Andrew Martin on Aug 25, 2011 12:44 PM MDT up reply actions
Kouz may have more power; Chase makes more consistant contact and isn't afraid to go oppo with runners on.
Failing That I’d try for Daniel Murphy and stick him at one position to learn it.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
ok, multiple responses
I don’t really LIKE Kouz. He’s being thrown at the wall in hopes of sticking. Headley is a better batter IMO.
Daniel Murphy would also be a solid pickup, but Eric Simon of Amazin’ Avenue told me that he’s representing the Mets’ best sell-high piece, and he’d be expensive to get. Frankly, he’s not a blow-me-away player, but he’s good. It’d depend on the demanded return.
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by Andrew Martin on Aug 25, 2011 12:53 PM MDT up reply actions
David Freese was a name that intrigued me..
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by Junction Rox on Aug 25, 2011 12:57 PM MDT up reply actions
I like Freese too
Can’t see the Cards moving him, though
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by Andrew Martin on Aug 25, 2011 12:59 PM MDT up reply actions
cardinals are going to have a lot to deal with this offseason
furcal leaves, carp and waino’s options, berkman, pujols… maybe we can swoop in undetected and snag freese easy
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
2012: get ready for White Pomz!
I thought the idea was that they had a replacement coming up
but it looks like Cox might be a year or so away….
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
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by Junction Rox on Aug 25, 2011 1:09 PM MDT up reply actions
Freese also might be the most fragile player in the bigs
Ex Vice President in Charge of Leadoff K Monitoring of (Arguable) Fake Switch Hitters
Formerly Deputy Operations in Charge of Denoting Instances That Lanky Canadian Lefty's Were Scheduled To Pitch.
by Jeff Francis Day on Aug 25, 2011 1:11 PM MDT up reply actions
Carlos Beltran would like a word....
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by Junction Rox on Aug 25, 2011 1:12 PM MDT up reply actions
If the Mets don't move Wright they no longer have a place to play him. They don't like him on the pivot a 2b and Duda and Davis have him blocked a 1b.
He was an adventure trying to teach himself LF and the current ankel injury makes them cautious about putting him in RF for the future.
They won’t get that much for him.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Who is replacing him at 3B?
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by Junction Rox on Aug 25, 2011 1:10 PM MDT up reply actions
The Mets will Move Wright or Murphy; not both.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
So if they don't move Wright
wouldn’t Murphy be either gone, or able to man 2B?
I guess I don’t see where the Mets get stuck with Wright but nowhere to play him…
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by Junction Rox on Aug 25, 2011 1:22 PM MDT up reply actions
They don't want to put him back at 2b because he's not good on the pivot and his ankel and knee woes were a direct result of his poor placement on pivot plays.
Result he gets run over and hurt or he misses the bag.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
I'm speacking of Murphy.
Wright will be moved over money or not at all. Murphy is the guy without a home but a decent bat.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
OK, I'm following you now
You were talking about Murphy and I thought you were talking about Wright. Sorry bout that…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
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by Junction Rox on Aug 25, 2011 1:29 PM MDT up reply actions
THey also have Justin Turner who has turned out to be not to shabby of a player manning 2nd
Prediction----> Cargo and Tulo will both have over 30 homers this year
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
Remember. Murphy is now on the DL for the rest of the year with a severely sprained knee
Prediction----> Cargo and Tulo will both have over 30 homers this year
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
I could see the Rox useing him next year as a replacement for both Giambi and Wiggy...
If not his working his way to fulltime at 3b. His best defensive position is 1b; even if his footwork leaves something to be desired.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
he'd be fine too.
Hand wringing about Wright’s health specifically is missing the point, I used Wright as an example because he was brought up in a link yesterday, while Headley was not. The point is that this team needs to identify external established MLB contributors that it can acquire in trade if it wants to get to the next level. Internal talent development and bargain hunting can only take it or any other team so far.
No disagreement.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
YES.
I like Headley better than any other 3B option.
Yes yes yes.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Aug 25, 2011 3:34 PM MDT up reply actions
Here's the problem with the Rockies trying to do the scrapheap reclamation thing
The team isn’t in the “patience” mode. Felipe Paulino, he of the good numbers in the KC rotation, was first thrown out of the role he’s shown himself to be good at and then completely improperly managed to succeed. So a combination of improper casting and complete impatience before his untimely dismissal.
Jose Lopez: stunk out loud, was cut. I’m not saying that if we’d kept him around he’d be a .300 hitter by now, and he might have even had a 10-game hot streak, but again, he didn’t have a chance to work out of that funk.
This isn’t to say that the Rockies are wrong for trying the scrapheap thing. But here’s the difference:
Jorge De La Rosa, acquired for Ramon Ramirez in 2008, didn’t start pitching for the Rockies until May 3rd. It took him until August 21st to get his season ERA under 6.
Difference then? The Rockies had nobody better/ready to throw in the rotation, so DLR had all the time he needed to get decent. Paulino? Nope, there’s someone in the system ready NOW who is gonna take that “garbage innings” role. Lopez? Nope, we have Chris Nelson, Johnny Herrera, EYJ – they’re all readily available to take your place.
So while the team isn’t WRONG, per se, they also don’t have the luxury of time or a manager who’ll actually give a player the time to figure crap out. Every scrapheap move they make costs the team wins (potentially) unless the player takes off right out of the gate, which doesn’t seem to happen much.
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But if Paulino had remained a starter here
We might have been denied some of those masterful performances like we saw yesterday.
In other words, I’m not sure Paulino was miscast and ultimately cast away because of actual impatience with him, or the relentless desire to keep a spot open for Cook.
by Northsider1964 on Aug 25, 2011 9:22 AM MDT up reply actions
It seems like there are years when the different approaches work better than others.
Rockies don’t expect to win: take guys off the scrap heap and give them a chance – there’s nothing to lose if it doesn’t work.
Rockies expect to win: take the “flags fly forever” approach and gamble big.
The question is: where are the Rockies next year? One could argue that this should have been a “flags fly forever” year, but Ubaldo’s early ineffectiveness and DLR’s surgery and the freaky near-collision between Stew, CarGo, and Tulo at the first at-bat of Spring Training say maybe this year wouldn’t have amounted to much anyway.
Next year the April rotation is full of question marks, but Todd’s going to retire soon, and the guy needs a freaking ring. So should it be a “flags fly forever” year, or shouldn’t it?
"Are they called the Rockies because they rock?" - 7 y.o.
I'm getting to the point where I want to see flags fly.
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by Andrew Martin on Aug 25, 2011 9:40 AM MDT up reply actions
watching Tulo get walked to get to Wiggy
made me really yearn for Mike Napoli or Josh Willingham on this team.
~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~
BRING ON THE HAMMER!
Prediction----> Cargo and Tulo will both have over 30 homers this year
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
I think they might try for flags, but I don't think they'll be ready next year.
Unfortunately, I doubt Todd’s going to get as close as he was in ’07 again. Maybe if they use next year as a scrap heap year, and go for it in ’13.
This seems to be the most realistic option
given where the roster currently stands and RG’s points re DOD’s reluctance (right or wrong) to make a true impact move. I just hope that the Helton window stays open long enough for this plan to all work. Would be a real shame if we finally figure out 3b and 2b and get the rotation set just in time to have to prop Adam LaRoche’s body up at 1b or something.
Yep, this is why I was frustrated at the Ubaldo trade.
That and what RG was talking about: the org seems to be constantly hoarding and holding onto prospects, never willing to go all in and try to win it. If Ubaldo really is washed up, I guess the trade was worth it. Either way, they need to pick a course an commit to it. You’re either rebuilding — in which case, you don’t need guys like Wiggington or even Iannetta, who doesn’t seem to be part of the future plans — or you’re trying to win now, which means not trading your best pitcher. Doing half and half is a recipe for indefinite mediocrity.
What frustrates me is Iannetta is not in our future plans
I like Rosario but I’m having my doubts of him being a big improvement on Iannetta. He isn’t showing he can draw a walk and I’m not sure if he’s going to hit for a much higher avg than CDI. He’s still young and could still become a stud but I would like to get some feelers out there on what we could get on a Rosario trade.
I am also not sold on Rosario
The Miguel Olivo comparisons scare me, I understand his defense is good, but I would rather have an OBP guy like Iannetta than a free swinger with some power like Olivo.
Iannetta will/should have one more year to state his case
or, for Rosario to prove himself. If CDI continues at his current level of effectiveness, an extension seems pretty reasonable unless Rosario blows it out and allows us to trade CDI. But we are not there yet by a longshot.
Not sure I agree.
I do think CDI will get one more year here, but Rosario is the future.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Aug 25, 2011 11:24 AM MDT up reply actions
Rosario is the future
plan. Whether or not he steps up and earns the job is another matter. Just giving it to him isn’t going to get us anywhere in my view.
I disagree.
When Rosario gets promoted, he’ll get the bulk of playing time to see if he can make it.
Iannetta will start until Rosario is ready.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Aug 25, 2011 11:47 AM MDT up reply actions
That's the point
some of us are arguing that Rosario should not be promoted until he is ready, and he does not appear to be ready yet. If he shows it next year, by all means. If he does not, and CDI can keep up his present level of performance, it doesn’t make a lot of competitive sense to make a move.
Exactly
with our history of Catchers, I wouldn’t dump Iannetta for a young kid until the kid proves he can play in the majors.
This is my view
unless we admit to a 2012 rebuild, and CDI can be moved in a legitimately good deal. But I doubt DOD will admit to the former, and the latter is questionable as well.
This is kind of the point I was making.
I also feel leery about Rosario, but it seems like he’s the organization’s plan for catcher. At the same time, it seems unlikely to me that all of the pieces will be ready to compete next year. That means that guys like Iannetta, Wiggington, Spilly, perhaps even Smith or Fowler, likely won’t be around when the team is ready to compete. Whatever offensive value they provide next year isn’t really worth anything. But they won’t commit to a rebuild by trading those guys, instead hoping that everything works out perfectly and the team can compete next year.
Iannetta will not get any more time.
Hell, he’s giving up starts to Alfonso now. Imagine what he’ll get being on a bench with Rosario.
Altar Boy in the Church of Santo Ubaldo
"...buffalo chicken is a fine anti-depressant, after all." -UZ
"... One order of buffalo wings, please..." -Yokel, after July 30, 2011
I think this establishes a false dichotomy, and doesn't actually seem to hold true for contending teams.
It’s okay to trade talent out in baseball trades that make sense, as long as you’re also willing to trade in. It only truly means you’re rebuilding if only the former is true. If both are happening, and it seems to me that this is the Rockies public posture, then it means you’re still well in a window of contention. If only the latter’s happening, it likely means your window’s almost shut.
Philadelphia will be okay trading Cliff Lee away for prospects, but also acquire Roy Halladay and Roy Oswalt. Atlanta wasn’t afraid to trade away Yunel Escobar or Javier Vasquez, but will trade for a Dan Uggla, etc.., Good teams will do both.
Nailed it, hopefully this is part of what DOD was talking
about with “not falling in love with players”
~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~
But the Rockies aren't doing it is his point
We’ll trade away spare parts for spare parts, we’ll trade away the top flight for prospects, but that last part about Uggla is missing from Colorado.
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by Andrew Martin on Aug 25, 2011 10:31 AM MDT up reply actions
that's my point of the Rockpile too
I just think he’s mistaken to think that an Ubaldo to Cleveland type of trade doesn’t happen with teams near contention teams.
You did have me confused for a moment
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by Andrew Martin on Aug 25, 2011 10:45 AM MDT up reply actions
I don't think you'll find very many contending teams trading away some of their centerpieces.
The Phillies could trade Lee because they were getting Halladay. They were actually upgrading their present pitching staff. From what I understood, the Yunel trade was mostly because the Braves didn’t like something about him and wanted him gone. Vazquez was somebody they could replace from within. You don’t see the Giants trading Lincecum, the Cardinals trading Pujols, or the Tigers trading Cabrera.
Not Cabrera, but the Tigers were okay trading Granderson away.
Similarly, the Rockies aren’t trading away Tulo or Cargo, but the third cog. The Cardinals didn’t trade Pujols, but Colby Rasmus was sent packing. My point is that it’s a rebuild if the Rockies don’t then go out and get a similar replacement cog for Jimenez, either now or in the off-season. It’s not necessarily one if they do.
I agree with this
The Jiminez deal was defensible on a number of grounds, but not on “we’re still competitive now and in 2012” without some serious ancillary moves that, as you rightfully point out, DOD may not be inclined (or allowed) to make.
I don't want us doing a Dotel to LAD
Santana for Blake, Ramos for Capps, Eithier for Bradley(not horrible but not good) just because there are some holes. I think the offense underperformed when the pitching was strong, and the injuries/ineffectiveness of DLR/Nicasio-Cook/Hammels and the timing of DLR going down so soon after we had DFA’d Paulino is what made this a lost season. That and a bullpen that didn’t gel until it was too late
~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~
I don't think anyone is advocating
the Colletti-style “prospects are worthless” approach. But there is a middle ground.
true i would say we are firmly in that middle ground
CBM was too much for MDC not because CBM is good but because MDC was awful. Almost every other trade we got value for including rotation regulars Hammel and DLR maybe not world beaters but point me to any other NL West team that has done better?
~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~
Well
considering we have arguably the 3rd or 4th best rotation in the division, being charitable, I’d suggest we aren’t exactly killing it.
How is that rotation without injuries
and if you include Ubaldo at the time?
Looking at where our rotation stands in the division after we trade Ubaldo for two top pitching prospects and lose JdlR and Nicasio to injuries is more than a bit unfair way to judge how the staff was put together, I’d say…
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by Junction Rox on Aug 25, 2011 12:30 PM MDT up reply actions
I think before the season
there was a fair debate among us and LAD as to who would be 2nd to SF in the division. As things have played, its hard to convincingly argue that we are at LA’s level and AZ certainly has a claim.
Hudson and Kennedy and meh in MLB
Kershaw, Kuroda then meh in MLB
The Padres are a mix of Meh and promise
and The Giants have a wonderful 1/2/3 that we passed on in the draft to take Francis/Reynolds/Weathers instead again I reiterate the draft is where we have been lacking.
~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~
can't really critizise DOD for passing on lincecum
bizarre delivery, heavy college workload, pothead, long hair…
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2012: get ready for White Pomz!
Meh in MLB?
If you say that about Billingsley and Lilly, I wonder what you objectively might say about DLR and Hammel. \
You are right that we’ve for the most part bombed the draft.
Lilly wouldn't so anything in CO that
Hammel hasn’t already done, Billingsley same thing both are nice 3-4 starters but our team is loaded with these. Kershaw is a stud but add him to the list of pitchers we chose to pass on
~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~
Yes, I see what you're saying.
I think it all comes back to how the Rockies viewed Jimenez. They clearly didn’t see the pitcher of 2008-2010, who was a staff ace and continuing to improve, but rather a #2- #3 type pitcher who was regressing heavily. That is what he has in common with the Granderson and Rasmus trades. The Tigers traded Granderson after he’d dropped from 7.8 WAR to 4.3 to 3.0. Rasmus was in the midst of a down year and Tony didn’t like him.
Still, if the Rockies want to be competitive, they need to try to put the talent on the field at the same time. Piecing bits in here and there and occasionally trading one of your stars for more prospects won’t get you there. I watched the White Sox do this for years. They would shift their organizational strength around, but they would never get it all on the field at the same time. Except for the one year they got lucky.
how could dod not have known
that lance berkman was going to blow up – everyone else did…
that is why he had offers from, uhhh, st. louis and ,,,, uh……..
This year
Dan actually did a good job supplementing the Cargo/Tulo core with good complementary players. Last year, where is was a true problem, we had only one player with more than 2 WAR besides C&T. And that was Olivo, who did all of his damage in the 1st half.
This year, we have 4 besides Cargo/Tulo with more than 2 WAR, Helton, Fowler, Iannetta, and Smith. No, not elite but certainly improved.
People still point towards the offense as the culprit for our struggles this year. Besides some inconsistency issues late in games, the offense has been solid. It’s our pitching that has crumbled to nothing this year.
It's all about timing
When the pitching was good, the offense stunk out loud. Now that the offense is awake, the pitching staff is decimated.
Altar Boy in the Church of Santo Ubaldo
"...buffalo chicken is a fine anti-depressant, after all." -UZ
"... One order of buffalo wings, please..." -Yokel, after July 30, 2011
To expand on the pitching staff being decimated
Right now, of the top 5 pitchers this season in terms of fWAR, 2 are on the DL, one with a potential career ending injury, one pitches for Cleveland, one is a reliever, and one hasn’t been able to locate the strike zone in over a month (aside from a game or two)
Yuck.
what, CDI and Fowler are decent players??
wow, be hard to tell that from the Denver Media – and most of the fans…
I hear batting average is very important
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by Andrew Martin on Aug 25, 2011 10:37 AM MDT up reply actions
i think it was the tuesday game.
drew goodman was talking about Ianetta, and was trying to get into the fact that his OBA is through the roof, and was about to get into OPS…
then Frazier totally blew him off…
damn you frazier and your old self
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by Andrew Martin on Aug 25, 2011 10:45 AM MDT up reply actions
he's a veteran
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2012: get ready for White Pomz!
For those that are interested, John Sickels at Minor League Ball is having an open question thread.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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I asked the following about Chad Bettis
“true top of rotation talent or polished pitcher cruising through A ball?”
the response:
neither. I don’t see him as a number one top of the rotation guy. But he has legit stuff according to my Cal League sources, not just polish. I’d say a number three starter
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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sounds about accurate to what we've been hearing
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by Andrew Martin on Aug 25, 2011 9:14 AM MDT up reply actions
and why I'll still have Matzek ahead of him on my list
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Reason I have Bettis ahead on my list
People have said that the Rockies are at fault for tinkering with his mechanics. I fault Matzek and get a feeling that he may be uncoachable. His pre-draft BA scouting reports even indicated that his mechanics would need some work for him to control his pitches.
What happened is a complete and utter implosion, starting with a poor 2010 and ending with a downright embarrassing 2011. He is now reverting back to a conditioning and mechanical program that is essentially shunned in baseball because it is so radical and unorthodox.
We do have a string of better (albeit inconsistent) starts and good scouting reports in regards to elite velocity to show us some hope. And I still believe the talent to be there. But the amount of work that needs to be done to improve his control to a point that it can survive in the majors in daunting.
Daunting? He's already shown some flashes of it in a very short time.
Also, he’s 20.
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I'd venture to say
That he is back to his 2010 stuff, which was wild, but effective enough to get low A ball hitters out. A lot of his issues this year stemmed from the fact that hitters in the Cal league were able to take advantage of his short-comings.
I thought we agreed not to read too much into the 2nd half of this season and to wait on 2012 to accurately evaluate where he is. I want to see how he refines his mechanics over time and how well they stick.
All this second half is done is confirm that he's still a quality prospect
Both are going to make my top 6-7 PuRPs, I just have Matzek higher.
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I feel Bettis will be
What Hammel should have been. A highly reliable righty with the depth of pitches to go deep into games and do it well. More than an inning eater but a bit less than an ace. Hammel doesn’t seem to have the conditioning or the consistency to do so. I hope Bettis does.
But, I am intrigued by that report of upper 90’s velocity. If it turns out to be true, he could have top of the rotation potential. But, like the velocity reports of Matzek, I need to see some Independent confirmation before I believe the validity of those reports.
various Rockies scouts have also seen 95-97mph with Matzek
Steve Foster reported as much last month.
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there was a scouting report from his second start back from California in his July Farm Report
In the second start Tuesday, an 85-pitch effort, Matzek gave up four hits and two runs in five innings with three walks and eight strikeouts. He touched 97 mph with his fastball out of the stretch and averaged 93 mph out of the windup.
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As I reflect on all the bad luck and bad baseball this season for the Rockies
the most recent series has put one thing in stark relief:
At least we’re not the Astros
by Roberbola on Aug 25, 2011 9:14 AM MDT reply actions 3 recs
Rox Girl, I can almost buy what you're selling, but not quite
Would YOU have traded Fowler and Stewart last offseason for Floyd?
Would YOU have traded Pomeranz or Rosario for Wandy and take on the $37mil on his contract too?
I’m guessing no on both. And wasn’t the Michael Young traded accepted by Jon Daniels but nixed by Nolan Ryan? I agree at some point he needs to break the mold and deal prospects for an established player and that part of his resume is lacking. He seems to legitimately be looking. Perhaps he’s turned down good deals we haven’t heard about. I just don’t think those 3 trades are necessarily ones you can fault O’Dowd for not completing
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Aug 25, 2011 10:02 AM MDT via mobile reply actions
While we're doing alternate histories, what if it was Rosario and Fowler and a prospect arm for Greinke?
and then traded a Henry Rodriguez/Corey Brown equivalent to the Nationals for Willingham?
An OF of Smith/Cargo/Willingham seems like it could have worked well for us, and adding Greinke to the 2011 and beyond rotation solves a lot of the issues we’ve had this year.
It seems a lot of people go to extreme opinions that either every trade of talent for an established player turns out badly or as an overpay, or that every prospect acquired in such a trade is too risky to consider. Either way, it’s cutting out a potential team building tool from what’s available. While what we know of trades that O’Dowd considered that the Rockies have turned out okay, my issue is that stepping back and looking at the overall forest of trades he’s done vs. that of teams actually consistently contending, shows that the Rockies lag severely in the acquisition of established players via trade. He’s too gunshy, I don’t know if there’s any other way to look at it.
So those trades weren’t great fits, fine. It’s part of his job to still go out and find players and trades that will be.
I'm not really building an alternate history as I am looking at what offers we know were there
I did allow in my post there were offers he might have turned away from we didn’t know about. The overriding theme of no such consummated deal is troubling. If Moore asked for Fowler, Rosario and Cabrera for Greinke and O’Dowd turned it down, I’d be miffed, but we don’t know that. He’s definitely gunshy, but I think his biggest flaw regarding that is failing to search out deals (did he even call on Greinke) rather than being silly on the deals we know about.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Aug 25, 2011 10:43 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
he once got Jermaine Dye for Neifi Perez!
~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~
OT: Renck tweets
RT @Rockies #Rockies Jorge De La Rosa will be at King Soopers in Pueblo today from 12-1 to sign autographs.
"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Crap, that only gives me like 2 hours to get down there
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by Andrew Martin on Aug 25, 2011 10:12 AM MDT up reply actions
Ha! Sorry. My question though
is there really only one King Soopers in all of Pueblo?
"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
It's Pueblo.
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by Muzia on Aug 25, 2011 10:16 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ha. I guess I figured Pueblo was bigger now than the last time I was there
which was like 15 years ago or more
"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Mostly still grass huts.
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by Andrew Martin on Aug 25, 2011 10:25 AM MDT up reply actions
that's racist dawg
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
2012: get ready for White Pomz!
North American huts?
aka trailer parks?
Is it 2012 yet?
by DAWNMARIE01 on Aug 25, 2011 12:30 PM MDT up reply actions
I don't think I've ever been there!
And I’m a native.
Is it 2012 yet?
by DAWNMARIE01 on Aug 25, 2011 10:25 AM MDT up reply actions
I've been there once
probably 15 years ago – went to the State Fair and saw Garth Brooks in concert. Or, more accurately, heard Garth Brooks, since the stupid concert setup in the rodeo arena really didn’t allow most people to see the stage…
I’d still be surprised if there is only one King’s down there. Even Grand Junction has 4 City Markets, which is basically the same thing as Kings…
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by Junction Rox on Aug 25, 2011 10:53 AM MDT up reply actions
I marched in that state fair parade
I only remember ridiculous heat, a flash of white light, and eating delicious sandwiches in a tent afterward
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Aug 25, 2011 11:01 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Are you sure you didn't just die in a fire?
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by Junction Rox on Aug 25, 2011 11:02 AM MDT up reply actions
We need to see O'Dowd build a winner
any way he can. By “winner”, I mean a team that can win more than 85 games for two or three consecutive seasons. He has not done that here. 90 wins in 2007, 74 in ‘08, 92 in ’09, and 83 in 2010. And that’s is the BEST O’Dowd has done.
It remains to be seen what our final record will be this year, but another losing season seems most likely even with our current hot streak having taken place. Remember that O’Dowd has averaged 77 wins per seasons in the 12 years he has been our GM.
So, how can O’Dowd build a winner? By getting quality players, especially hitters, who aren’t done or sub-average. I agree wholeheartedly with what Rox Girl wrote here. He needs to bring in guys we know can help right off the bat….with the bat. I thought the Ellis trade was a move that addressed part of this, in light of how bad our 2B options have been. But Mark Ellis is no star. We need a third star to go with Tulo and Cargo, or at least average players at 3B and 2B. I’d trade Fowler for one of these players, and put Cargo in CF for good next year, filling a corner OF spot with a righthanded power guy. It doesn’t appear O’Dowd is thinking along these lines at all, though.
Let’s hope O’Dowd gets gutsy and becomes “Dealin’ Dan” again. He has been very gunshy in recent years. Good point, Rox Girl.
Clearly trading Ubaldo and Holliday is gunshy
Ex Vice President in Charge of Leadoff K Monitoring of (Arguable) Fake Switch Hitters
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by Jeff Francis Day on Aug 25, 2011 11:09 AM MDT up reply actions
Would you have given away Rosario or Pomeranz for Wandy?
It’s been stated above but giving up the farm for a star carries a huge risk for a small-mid market team if that star does not pan out. Please provide a good example of a worthy player the team just wasn’t willing to go get the last couple of years. Then think of all the Wheeler for Beltran mistakes that have been made elsewhere and ask yourself what you would have done differently than O’dowd.
Ex Vice President in Charge of Leadoff K Monitoring of (Arguable) Fake Switch Hitters
Formerly Deputy Operations in Charge of Denoting Instances That Lanky Canadian Lefty's Were Scheduled To Pitch.
by Jeff Francis Day on Aug 25, 2011 11:17 AM MDT up reply actions
I am not the GM, Jeff...
And, no, I would not trade Pomeranz. Rosario? Depends on the entire deal being put together. The point Rox Girl makes, which I agree with and apparently you don’t, is that DOD is not adept or willing at packaging young players (prospects or young MLBers) for established players. He just hasn’t pulled off any of these type of trades. Not sure how you could dispute that, unless you provide an example of how DOD has traded young but unproven players for proven and established regulars.
As for using the “small to mid market” line as an apparent excuse for lack of action, this is the company line. We are mid to major market, being disguised as small to mid market. We are as good and sizable a market as Atlanta, St. Louis, Detroit, etc. My gosh, we just sold out a Sunday game against the Dodgers while both teams are currently also-rans! We would be like the “Broncos of baseball” if we had a perennial winner.
Jason Hammels, Rafael Betancourt, Jose Lopez there are a few examples
~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~
Octavio Dotel, Manny DelCarmen
~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~
I assume
you really aren’t categorizing any of these guys as “established regulars” per the discussion above.
TomCat, do you think relievers qualify...
as “established regulars”?
Rafael Betancourt has appeared in 113 games in the 2 years
since we got him with 180k’s to 21BBs he is as regular as any pitcher on this team
~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~
Even if you argue
Betancourt is a “regular” (which I don’t think is true in context here) he still doesn’t fit the bill because we didn’t trade anything of value for him.
So if we get good value(Hammel, DLR, Betancourt, Belisle)
without giving up valuable pieces it doesn’t count because it should cost more? Other than Uggla in a universally panned trade from a notoriously cheap team can you think of any other “regulars” we should have been in on?
~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~
RG has cited numerous examples
but the guys you mention, other than Hammel, are not in my view at all what we are talking about in this discussion. Every single team makes minor bench/reliever type trades and they work or don’t work. We’re talking about a material impact trade here that has a risk on both sides. These examples had no risk on DOD, were simply taking cheap shots.
Like I said i liked Willingham a lot
But OF/1B hasn’t been our problem, I love Napoli but C/1B isn’t our problem paying Michael Young 15+ Million a year is a bad idea for the Rangers, it would cripple us. If we can get David Wright I would be all for it as long as it doesn’t mortgage our 2014-20 years.
~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~
if we pursued wright we would have to keep arenado, to be sure
but he would command a huge return, and rightly so
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2012: get ready for White Pomz!
Well I guess
not risking mortgating the future at the expense of the present is really the crux of the whole debate here.
Hammel was not proven when we got him...
Raffy was, but is a relief pitcher. I am talking about “regular”, such as an everyday position player or starting pitcher. The Raffy trade was a good one, though. Lopez is not exactly someone who was playing at peak level when we got him, either.
Bautista, Yunel, Rasmus, Kelly Johnson are all players who were
underperforming when the Jays got them we will see how the last two turn out. Lopez was a cheap flyer there have been plenty of those from Huff to Burrell that worked out fine. We don’t have the farm system or the payroll to make mistakes in trading for regulars.
~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~
The thing about trading for "established regulars"...
is that at least you know what you’re getting. Or at least have more confidence in the production receieved in return for what you gave up. With the flyers you mentioned, you never know. Sometimes they are low-risk, high-return deals. Other times, they are duds. It’s like trying to catch lightning in a bottle. It can happen and I applaud trying those sorts of deals.
I also applaud going for established regulars who haven’t fallen off a cliff lately…..which is the type of deal O’Dowd has not executed.
the other thing about trading for "established regulars...
is that few teams want to give them up, and those that do generally want a king’s ransom, see jimenez, ubaldo
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I understand your point
I’m just asking you to name a superstar that was available through trade the last few years that you would have given up 3 or 4 top prospects for.
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Formerly Deputy Operations in Charge of Denoting Instances That Lanky Canadian Lefty's Were Scheduled To Pitch.
by Jeff Francis Day on Aug 25, 2011 11:44 AM MDT up reply actions
I would have given up a lot for
Uggla, for one, just this past offseason. Probably several more guys that we could/should have made moves on.
Or Kelly Johnson last year....
and they need not be “superstars”, just established regulars.
Kelly Johnson had a 224/.303/.389 line in ATL
rather Lopezesque
~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~
I mentioned Greinke or even Willingham (not a superstar, but a solid player) above.
The Brewers got Marcum for Lawrie. The Angels got Dan Haren in the last year. The Rangers traded for Mike Napoli. The Red Sox didn’t give up a whole lot for Adrian Gonzalez. The Phillies traded for Hunter Pence among others. I’d have given up equivalent prospects for all of the above, for some, I’d give more.
I should retract part of that...
I love Adrian Gonzalez, but that trade I actually probably wouldn’t have made with the Rockies for a variety of obvious reasons.
I would rather have Adrian Beltre
that said Willingham, or Napoli were both reasonably price last year and Uggla could probably have been had without breaking the bank. the FO went with Wiggington who has not been horrible but certainly did not fix the hole we have at 3B
~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~
Would you have given up 3-4 top prospects for him?
Or for Kelly Johnson, a guy who was just moved for Aaron Hill and a utility IF?
I shudder to think what the reaction would have been if we had unloaded 3-4 top prospects for a guy who hit .185 in the first half with mediocre defense, even if he did have 15 first half homers. Even with the hot streak he’s had in the second half, I think it’s hard to look at Uggla as the target of a true blockbuster deal. There’s definitely a price at which he makes sense, but there’s also definitely a price at which he doesn’t…
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by Junction Rox on Aug 25, 2011 12:01 PM MDT up reply actions
3/4 is probably high
but that wasn’t his price. If his price was a few top 10-15 purps other than Rosiario/Matzek/Arenado and maybe a few select others I would have been all over it, especially coming into this year.
Considering his price was Dunn and Infante
I think we, and probably a whole lot of teams, would have made at least equal offers. That trade was odd, even at the time…
I’m not sure I’d go with “a few top 10-15 purps”, though. I would have no problem with 1, with a few exclusions. But if you’re going to give “a few” guys out of the top of your system, you better be getting somebody pretty damn special… That’s more like the package the Indians gave up for Ubaldo. And the price for Uggla should not be anywhere near that for a guy like Ubaldo…
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by Junction Rox on Aug 25, 2011 12:24 PM MDT up reply actions
True
but it wouldn’t have been. And the key was that the deal would have specifically addressed a huge hole when we were clearly trying to set up a contending team. Sure, the actual Uggla returns this year would not have saved us, but that’s not the test. The test is: DOD did not want to make a strong play at a guy that clearly fit an immediate need. this is the debate as framed by RG. He is gun-shy on these sorts of deals…and many here (including me) think that just such a deal is going to be required for 2012 to be anything more than a rebuild.
I'm not sure the Uggla deal is a good example
do you really think that the Fish shopped Uggla around MLB and the best offer they got was Dunn and Infante? That not only did DO’D not step up with a better offer, but neither did anybody else?
The best explanation I have for the way that deal went down is that the Fish loved Infante, and wanted him back in the deal to replace Uggla. I’m really not sure how much the talks to trade him ever went beyond Atlanta, or they could have gotten more somewhere. I’m not sure that’s a case where you can see DO’D had a chance to be “gunshy”.
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by Junction Rox on Aug 25, 2011 12:36 PM MDT up reply actions
This may be true
because its hard to believe they can’t have beaten that deal. But proactivity matters…was DOD on the phone beforehand saying “we think you might move that cat and we want him, call me” or whatever? I honestly don’t know, and the point for me falls if DOD did make an offer but didn’t get him. But just sitting back waiting for the phone to ring is not the best use of DOD’s time.
I sincerely doubt
that a guy with the nickname “Dealing Dan O’Dowd” is widely known around baseball for sitting back and waiting for the phone to ring. lol But you’re right, none of us really knows what he has pursued or not pursued that didn’t happen…
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by Junction Rox on Aug 25, 2011 12:43 PM MDT up reply actions
uh
let’s not attribute Woody Paigeisms to the general populace, mmk?
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by Andrew Martin on Aug 25, 2011 12:44 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Is that a Woodyism?
I thought that nickname came from baseball circles.
My bad, then….
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by Junction Rox on Aug 25, 2011 12:47 PM MDT up reply actions
that nickname
hasn’t been used for a decade.
False
It was used just 5 minutes ago… :-)
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by Junction Rox on Aug 25, 2011 12:47 PM MDT up reply actions
I agree I think they saw infante as a younger Polanco
~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~
Umm ... Michael Young is a top 5 MVP candidate
In case you hadn’t noticed. Yes we made an offer, probably a fair one, but we weren’t willing to meet their demands. That’s the kind of thing you have to do to get really good players.
by BostonTransplant on Aug 25, 2011 11:56 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
O'dowd was willing to make that deal. The Rangers were never really comfortbale letting him go.
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by Jeff Francis Day on Aug 25, 2011 12:00 PM MDT up reply actions
EY2 was the rumored return, right?
I bet if Blackmon was the offer, we’d have Michael Young on this team.
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If Ryan was the one who squashed that deal
it’s very likely that the reasons were less about the players in the deal and more about intangible concerns. Dealing Young for them was like the Rockies looking into dealing Helton back in the day. A lot more comes into it than just the players you get back. I don’t remember reading anything that tells me the Rangers ended up pulling him off the table because they asked for something the Rockies wouldn’t offer…
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by Junction Rox on Aug 25, 2011 12:04 PM MDT up reply actions
I wouldn't be so sure.
Ryan got all kinds of loyalty heebie-jeebies when talks got really serious. Ranger fans don’t know EY2 from Charlie Blackmon (EY2 actually has the name recognition). Keeping him on the team was a PR move, and it paid dividends.
Ex Vice President in Charge of Leadoff K Monitoring of (Arguable) Fake Switch Hitters
Formerly Deputy Operations in Charge of Denoting Instances That Lanky Canadian Lefty's Were Scheduled To Pitch.
by Jeff Francis Day on Aug 25, 2011 12:05 PM MDT up reply actions
esp since EY1 was with the Rangers for all of 4 games
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by Andrew Martin on Aug 25, 2011 12:06 PM MDT up reply actions
We didn't blow them away
We never do. We should, more. Prospects are cheap and easy to replace.
by BostonTransplant on Aug 25, 2011 12:09 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Easy to replace?
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by Andrew Martin on Aug 25, 2011 12:11 PM MDT up reply actions
Ha
Cuz we have such a successful track record with our first round draft picks…
Ex Vice President in Charge of Leadoff K Monitoring of (Arguable) Fake Switch Hitters
Formerly Deputy Operations in Charge of Denoting Instances That Lanky Canadian Lefty's Were Scheduled To Pitch.
by Jeff Francis Day on Aug 25, 2011 12:15 PM MDT up reply actions
I do think you're overstating Young's contributions
Off of the top of my head, I’d take Grandy, Cabrera, Gonzalez, Bautista, Avila, Zobrist and Pedroia over Young. Young’s been good. Not THAT good.
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by Andrew Martin on Aug 25, 2011 12:34 PM MDT up reply actions
not to mention a slew of pitchers
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
2012: get ready for White Pomz!
casey kotchman
/ducks
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
2012: get ready for White Pomz!
oh god Kotchman
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by Andrew Martin on Aug 25, 2011 12:43 PM MDT up reply actions
I thought I put Ellsbury in there
He’s been otherworldly good.
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by Andrew Martin on Aug 25, 2011 12:43 PM MDT up reply actions
There really wasn't much choice with Holliday
he was leaving either way. The Ubaldo trade did break the mold of not trading established stars under team control. The final frontier seems to be trading for established stars. It’s not that DO’D hasn’t looked into it (Young, Wandy being the most prominent examples) but so far it appears his plan for bringing in somebody established involves bargain hunting. I’m not against it, if we can get a top player at a discount, let’s do it. I also don’t really want to see him running making bad deals just so he can say he landed a star. But at some point this team NEEDS another big time bat. Depending on what develops with pitching, we may need another rotation piece for the long-term. At some point DO’D is going to have to deem some deal that is out there acceptable, even if it hurts worse than he’s really comfortable with.
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by Junction Rox on Aug 25, 2011 11:17 AM MDT up reply actions
Yes, Holliday was leaving
But we still turned him into Cargo and Street….does DOD not get credit for that??
Of course we need a big time bat, but let’s not forget this team was supposed to have them already. Ian Stewart was expected to be a big bat at 3b. Nobody could really argue that. His fall from grace was a huge blow to the gut.
Smith has the potential to be a big time bat at a corner outfield spot but management won’t let him develop into that.
2b has been a hole, but is not normally a big time bat type of position. Dan Uggla’s first half of the season would have done nothing to help the swooning squad.
This team was built well. It was a consensus division winner throughout baseball. It underperformed and failed to live up to expectations. I agree that there is now work to be done but all things considered, the players and managers are more to blame than the architect.
Ex Vice President in Charge of Leadoff K Monitoring of (Arguable) Fake Switch Hitters
Formerly Deputy Operations in Charge of Denoting Instances That Lanky Canadian Lefty's Were Scheduled To Pitch.
by Jeff Francis Day on Aug 25, 2011 11:58 AM MDT up reply actions
There's enough blame to go around...
Players, manager, coaches, front office. Nobody made us win this year.
Your point about the Holliday trade is not being disputed here. The discussion is about trades O’Dowd HASN’T done, i.e. young unprovens for proven regulars. That’s the gap in O’Dowd’s resume at this point.
And for good reason
Those kind of trades cripple a franchise like us if they don’t pan out. When you take on a player like Pence, Greinke, or Gonzalez, you are usually awarding them a mega-contract in addition to giving up top prospects. DOD was brought in to not make the Hampton and Neagle mistake again. He’s gonna have to be darn sure of his return before getting into the same kind of situation.
Ex Vice President in Charge of Leadoff K Monitoring of (Arguable) Fake Switch Hitters
Formerly Deputy Operations in Charge of Denoting Instances That Lanky Canadian Lefty's Were Scheduled To Pitch.
by Jeff Francis Day on Aug 25, 2011 12:08 PM MDT up reply actions
I'm not saying the Holliday deal was bad
I’ve been a big advocate of it. I’m just saying that you really can’t look at it as an indication of how willing DO’D generally is to move established players. Holliday was moving, DO’D’s job was just to get something out of that. And he did that extremely well in that case…
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by Junction Rox on Aug 25, 2011 12:06 PM MDT up reply actions
I love the post but ...
I suspect the missing piece is what we have available to trade. I don’t think our system has much anyone else is really interested in. Almost every ML system has numerous Wheelers and Bettis’s and Friedrich’s and Arenados they don’t want to block. About all we have that’s competitive in an open contest for an established star is Rosario and Pomeranz.
by BostonTransplant on Aug 25, 2011 12:00 PM MDT via mobile reply actions
You're underestimating our farm
As currently built, it’s a deep system that now has several blue-chip type talents at the top. If O’Dowd wanted to deal for a top talent, we have the prospects in place to get it done.
The argument is that he’s been hesitant to offer up that type of talent.
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That's what people say
I’m not so sure, and more importantly I don’t think other GM’s think so. The kind of prospects that can yield a ML star are AA and AAA sure things, not A level guys with holes in their game. I think a lot of fans WAY overvalue our system as compared to other teams’, especially in the ’ready" or “almost ready” category that trades are usually built around.
by BostonTransplant on Aug 25, 2011 12:07 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
I don't see a lot of surplus either
The wave at A-ball now will be needed to replace current players as salaries rise though arbitration (and a certain percentage of them wont pan out). We don’t really have a position where there are multiple legitimate projected MLB-caliber starters except maybe catcher, and that’s questionable. Trading surplus talent at one position to make up for a hole at another makes a lot of sense for a contending team, but trading talent to get talent otherwise just keeps you where you are.
This year just proved, unfortunately, that the Rockies don’t have the level of scouting and player development to make O’Dowd’s stated goal of a “perennial contender” in this market a reality. The next best alternative is to play for a “window”, which looks like 2013 at this point unless we get a lot of very pleasant surprises in development before July of next year.
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by RoarFrom112 on Aug 25, 2011 12:33 PM MDT up reply actions
What you really need to make these kinds of deals
and not mortgage your future is not only a system with several blue-chip talents at the top, but some redundancy with those prospects. The problem for the Rockies has been that if you trade one of the blue chip talents, you create a hole in your system. The Ubaldo trade appears to have done a pretty good job of negating that problem on the pitching front, there are now some guys in the system who can be moved in a deal for a pretty good return without leaving the system threadbare. We’re still a ways away from that at some important positions, though…
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by Junction Rox on Aug 25, 2011 12:10 PM MDT up reply actions
Agreed
And if I were DOD, the only thing I’d consider moving these top blue-chips for is a long term solution at 1B….and that opportunity hasn’t surfaced.
Ex Vice President in Charge of Leadoff K Monitoring of (Arguable) Fake Switch Hitters
Formerly Deputy Operations in Charge of Denoting Instances That Lanky Canadian Lefty's Were Scheduled To Pitch.
by Jeff Francis Day on Aug 25, 2011 12:20 PM MDT up reply actions
The best opportunity we've seen there
was in the Ubaldo trade, with either Montero or Alonso being talked in various deals.
The thing with dealing prospects for an established 1B right now is that we kind of have an established 1B right now. Hard to deal for another established guy unless he can play another position for a couple years.
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by Junction Rox on Aug 25, 2011 12:28 PM MDT up reply actions
This is my point
I think we are on the same page JR.
Our biggest long term need currently has a great short-term solution. Therefore the need to break the bank for an established player has not happened, and I’m OK with that!
Ex Vice President in Charge of Leadoff K Monitoring of (Arguable) Fake Switch Hitters
Formerly Deputy Operations in Charge of Denoting Instances That Lanky Canadian Lefty's Were Scheduled To Pitch.
by Jeff Francis Day on Aug 25, 2011 12:30 PM MDT up reply actions
The need to break the bank for an established 1B has not happened
Established 2B, 3B or big bat corner OF? It’s happened, and it’s continuing to happen.
I think we’re on the same page for the most part, but I do think we’re at a point right now where DO’D is going to have to pull off a deal to add another high quality bat at one of those spots, and he’s going to have to give up something to do it. But not get ripped off in the process. It’s something he hasn’t done in the past, but I don’t think that means he can’t or won’t. But I’m going to be very interested to see if/how it happens…
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by Junction Rox on Aug 25, 2011 12:39 PM MDT up reply actions
Kind of
Arenado will be here in 2013. We’re talking one more year of possible ineptitude at the position. Is Ian Stewart as bad as he was this year? No. Is there a chance he or Chris Nelson can man third base admirably until Arenado’s arrival? Yes. Will they get that chance? Who knows.
If Tulo and Cargo stop disappearing for halves of seasons, those holes will be less obvious.
Mark Ellis is an established 2B. Not great, but established.
Still not convinced Smith isn’t a viable corner outfielder, especially with Blackmon and Wheeler on the way.
I think most of the holes are on the pitching side. Wandy would have been nice, but the contract plus Rosario/Pom was not worth the risk.
Ex Vice President in Charge of Leadoff K Monitoring of (Arguable) Fake Switch Hitters
Formerly Deputy Operations in Charge of Denoting Instances That Lanky Canadian Lefty's Were Scheduled To Pitch.
by Jeff Francis Day on Aug 25, 2011 1:06 PM MDT up reply actions
Is Ian Stewart as bad as he was this year? No. Is there a chance he or Chris Nelson can man third base admirably until Arenado’s arrival? Yes. Will they get that chance? Who knows.
Jim Tracy? Is that you?
Kidding.
not special enough
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by Junction Rox on Aug 25, 2011 1:13 PM MDT up reply actions
The point is you don't make the kind of trade talked about above
when your supposed 3b of the future is a year out. As a result, you do what DOD did, and try to find some kind of sustainable stop gap.
Ex Vice President in Charge of Leadoff K Monitoring of (Arguable) Fake Switch Hitters
Formerly Deputy Operations in Charge of Denoting Instances That Lanky Canadian Lefty's Were Scheduled To Pitch.
by Jeff Francis Day on Aug 25, 2011 1:14 PM MDT up reply actions
I disagree.
You don’t count eggs before they hatch, and Arenado’s close to hatching, but he’s not there yet. If a good deal could fetch Wright or Headley, I think you have to take it. I think you consider Freese if he can be had for a particularly attractive offer. If Arenado proves ready for 2013, you find a place for him somehow, or break him in slowly as teams have done for a century now.
2013 should be about the time
that we suddenly have an opening for a long-term solution at 1B…
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by Junction Rox on Aug 25, 2011 1:20 PM MDT up reply actions
someone's gotta spell helton
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
2012: get ready for White Pomz!
H-E-L-T-O-N
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by hotdoglady on Aug 25, 2011 1:22 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
thank you maria
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
2012: get ready for White Pomz!
Anything else you would like me to spell?
The Martha Stewart of processed foods.
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onomatopoeia
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
2012: get ready for White Pomz!
no
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by Junction Rox on Aug 25, 2011 1:28 PM MDT up reply actions
As usual, you win at life
"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
So what are the rumours in SD cat? (no pun intended)
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Sorry?
"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
apparently you're a gossip queen.
let us in on the secrets.
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
2012: get ready for White Pomz!
Trade rumours?
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
What is Fleetwood Mac bringing these days?
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by Junction Rox on Aug 25, 2011 1:46 PM MDT up reply actions
It's just secondhand news.
"Are they called the Rockies because they rock?" - 7 y.o.
by glaucophane on Aug 25, 2011 1:54 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
We go our own way
"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
I can still hear you saying that you'd"Never break the Chain"!
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Oh. No idea.
I haven’t been paying that much attention to the Padres, aside from watching them play the teams we need them to beat.
"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Now that Hawpe is "hors de combat"?
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
I wasn't paying all that much attention
even then.
"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
N-O
No.
The Martha Stewart of processed foods.
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Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
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Well, that took long enough
But I knew you’d get where I was going there…
As usual, you win by a Landslide…
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by Junction Rox on Aug 25, 2011 2:11 PM MDT up reply actions
I'm sorry.
I had that work thing get in my way of posting.
The Martha Stewart of processed foods.
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I R disappoint
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
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by Junction Rox on Aug 25, 2011 2:13 PM MDT up reply actions
To make it up to you
I shall now perform the John Cage composition, 4:30.
The Martha Stewart of processed foods.
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
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This concludes my
performance of “4:30”
/bows
The Martha Stewart of processed foods.
Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
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/stands
/applauds
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by Junction Rox on Aug 25, 2011 2:22 PM MDT up reply actions
Thank you. Thank you.
The Martha Stewart of processed foods.
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Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.
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you beat me to it...
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
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by Junction Rox on Aug 25, 2011 1:22 PM MDT up reply actions
was that your first comment of the day?
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
2012: get ready for White Pomz!
I believe it was.
Yes.
The Martha Stewart of processed foods.
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What is a "good deal?"
I agree with Wright and Headley. I don’t think Freese has ever played two straight months without hitting the DL.
Ex Vice President in Charge of Leadoff K Monitoring of (Arguable) Fake Switch Hitters
Formerly Deputy Operations in Charge of Denoting Instances That Lanky Canadian Lefty's Were Scheduled To Pitch.
by Jeff Francis Day on Aug 25, 2011 1:23 PM MDT up reply actions
I'd have to think about that, but if it's two to three solid prospects
not including Pomeranz, than I’d strongly consider it. If a deal included either Rosario or Arenado (it couldn’t be both,) I wouldn’t consider it good with more than two prospects going back.
Are you talking about Wright or Headley?
Or either one?
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by Junction Rox on Aug 25, 2011 1:41 PM MDT up reply actions
Either
Knowing that the asking price on Wright will be high…
Like White/Rosario high
Ex Vice President in Charge of Leadoff K Monitoring of (Arguable) Fake Switch Hitters
Formerly Deputy Operations in Charge of Denoting Instances That Lanky Canadian Lefty's Were Scheduled To Pitch.
by Jeff Francis Day on Aug 25, 2011 1:43 PM MDT up reply actions
I meant White+Rosario
Ex Vice President in Charge of Leadoff K Monitoring of (Arguable) Fake Switch Hitters
Formerly Deputy Operations in Charge of Denoting Instances That Lanky Canadian Lefty's Were Scheduled To Pitch.
by Jeff Francis Day on Aug 25, 2011 1:45 PM MDT up reply actions
It would be high
I was mostly wondering if RG was talking about trading Rosario or Arenado + another prospect for Headley, if she thought that would get Wright, or if it worked either way…
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by Junction Rox on Aug 25, 2011 1:48 PM MDT up reply actions
I was considering it about the same for both
that’s without looking up details about their contracts, however. I think the monetary savings or Headley make him attractive, while Wright’s going to make more at the box office to offset his salary, and likely provide more output over those couple of seasons.
Whom would you give up for Headley?
I think it would take one pitcher and one viable but not sure bat. SD is gagging on paying him what he’s worth in arb. Even the high sell is not that high to me.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Friederich and Pacheco?
Or might that be on the high side?
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by Junction Rox on Aug 25, 2011 2:09 PM MDT up reply actions
Sounds about right but maybe not those two in particular
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
not sure if Pacheco has any value this year.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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True; but that's why isaid not particularly them.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Definitely not what he had after ST...
I was just thinking “viable but not sure bat” but he may have left viable behind somewhere around June, I guess…
Would one of the A ball outfielders maybe be a better example?
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by Junction Rox on Aug 25, 2011 2:21 PM MDT up reply actions
Possibly?
I haven’t heard much about Mesa this year or Cleary.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
I don't know if those guys have any trade value right now
There’s still potential there with both, but they would have to be additions to a trade, fringe pieces in a package
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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Ortega or Dickerson was more what I was thinking
that’s seeming a bit MLB remote now that I think about it, though…
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by Junction Rox on Aug 25, 2011 2:27 PM MDT up reply actions
For David Wright?
No way. 3-4 TOP prospects.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Aug 25, 2011 3:44 PM MDT up reply actions
Hmm seems like that was for Headley...
Whoops
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Aug 25, 2011 3:46 PM MDT up reply actions
Yeah, I was talking Cheadley
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by Junction Rox on Aug 25, 2011 3:47 PM MDT up reply actions
Mets would laugh in your face
Come on. Neither of those guys has centerpiece value. Not even close.
by BostonTransplant on Aug 25, 2011 3:43 PM MDT up reply actions
I was talking about Cheadley...
A clue would have been the title of the comment I replied to…
Whom would you give up for Headley?
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by Junction Rox on Aug 25, 2011 3:48 PM MDT up reply actions
Bettis and Blackmon?
I’d be willing to give up something along those lines for him and still be okay with it.
I could go with that and give Areando a year to learn 1b!
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Replace Blackmon with Smith
and at least the Mets wouldn’t hang up. Probably have to go to Rosario or White instead of Bettis. And yes, I’d still do it. All those prospects (with the exception of Pomeranz) are most likely average ML players. Some will be better than that, but we have no idea which.
by BostonTransplant on Aug 25, 2011 3:45 PM MDT up reply actions
I think there's no question about that Rox Girl, how did you figure it out?
Ex Vice President in Charge of Leadoff K Monitoring of (Arguable) Fake Switch Hitters
Formerly Deputy Operations in Charge of Denoting Instances That Lanky Canadian Lefty's Were Scheduled To Pitch.
by Jeff Francis Day on Aug 25, 2011 1:12 PM MDT up reply actions
nice try, you don't have one "special" in there
no way you’re tracy
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
2012: get ready for White Pomz!
I also mentioned that Smith was a viable outfielder
no way I’m tracy
Ex Vice President in Charge of Leadoff K Monitoring of (Arguable) Fake Switch Hitters
Formerly Deputy Operations in Charge of Denoting Instances That Lanky Canadian Lefty's Were Scheduled To Pitch.
by Jeff Francis Day on Aug 25, 2011 1:15 PM MDT up reply actions
and he only says Ellis is "not great, but established"
which doesn’t exactly sound like “championship caliber,” and plus there’s the whole Seth Smith thing. You’re right, a lot to be dubious about there.
and that's where the poor drafting for three straight years hurts us right now
We have a SS, we have a CF, we have a RF, we have a catcher, we have decent pitching depth and a locked up bullpen.
We’re missing a few pieces, and I’m okay with trading pieces of the farm that ARE redundant. Tim Wheeler is redundant, Chad Bettis is potentially redundant, as is Cabrera and Friedrich and…
(I’m well aware that Rosario is redundant by this argument, and I think he’s tradeable for an elite piece.)
We have a gap of incoming talent, and likely need to use it to acquire MLB ready players in return, hoping that the multitude of young players on the team are actually ready to shoulder the load.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
OT-ish: Former Cy Young Award Winner Mike Flanagan dead at 59
What a sad end to a great career and life.
Former Orioles pitcher Mike Flanagan, a Cy Young Award winner who became a face of the franchise as a television announcer and top executive, died Wednesday afternoon, according to the Orioles.
A Baltimore County police spokeswoman said police received a 911 call at 4:26 p.m. reporting a death in the 15000 block of York Road in Sparks. Officers found a man’s body on a trail leading to a barn, according to spokeswoman Elise Armacost.
The Catonsville Times is reporting a self-inflicted gunwound to the face. Sad indeed.
"The game of baseball is made up of many little things. If we do all the little things right, then we'll never have a big thing to worry about" -- Cal Ripken, Sr.
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #3
ESPiN insider piece up today
Prospects stock on the Rise talking about prospects whose stock is coming back after some drop off… A couple Rockies pitchers whose names you may (or may not, in one case) recognize… A couple comments caught my eye:
Pitcher: Chad Betts, Colorado Rockies
…………….
He’s arguably the best starter in the Colorado system, and almost assuredly the one who offers the most promise of a big league career.
Pitcher: Tyler Matzek, Rockies
……………………………
While he’s still overcoming his wildness, walking 29 over 41 innings since his return, he’s also whiffed 49 while showing a fastball, that for the first time in his pro career, is consistently in the low-to-mid 90s range.
He’s still in the tall weeds, but there just might be some light at the end of the tunnel.
There is a bit more to the profiles, but I don’t want to get A Mart in any trouble with the copyright police…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
and I appreciate that
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by Andrew Martin on Aug 25, 2011 12:36 PM MDT up reply actions
Who would take care of the cat?
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Aug 25, 2011 12:39 PM MDT up reply actions
muzia will be too busy with the avalanche....
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
2012: get ready for White Pomz!
probably the cat's owner
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by Andrew Martin on Aug 25, 2011 12:44 PM MDT up reply actions
I really couldn't take that chance...
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
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by Junction Rox on Aug 25, 2011 12:44 PM MDT up reply actions
he won't even go get her groomed.
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by Andrew Martin on Aug 25, 2011 12:45 PM MDT up reply actions
let alone empty her litter box more than once a month
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
2012: get ready for White Pomz!
no, he's really good at that kind of stuff
cat always has food, water, clean litterbox, stuff like that.
He just won’t go get her groomed.
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by Andrew Martin on Aug 25, 2011 12:46 PM MDT up reply actions
That comment about "Betts" interested me the most
I’d love to know if Goldstein was including Pomeranz and White in his thinking when he wrote that. Because if he was, my reaction would probably be both “wut?” and “wow”…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Aug 25, 2011 12:46 PM MDT up reply actions
he couldn't have been, at least as far as Pomeranz.
I’m guessing it was just a brain fart forgetting the Ubaldo trade.
RG I still don't see DOD making sideways trades prospects for prospects to fill orginizational needs unless both players have been completely given up on.
Why can’t we say trade a Friedrich for a 1b prosect whose blocked?
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
i don't think anyone is saying we can't
in fact i’m pretty sure the popular sentiment around the row is in fact to trade friedrich for offense in the offseason
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
2012: get ready for White Pomz!
But I want to know why DOD doesn't?
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
because it isnt the offseason yet
there’s not a lot of point to making a blockbuster trade at this point in the season
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
2012: get ready for White Pomz!
Sideways prospects moves are seldom blockbuster and mostly fly under the radar
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
the favored move around here seems to be friedrich+smith+ for another hitter
that would be pretty big, i think, given friedrich’s first-round status
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
2012: get ready for White Pomz!
he does have a couple more of those than he does of the variety I'm talking about in the post.
You’re right that it’s been awhile, as the best example in his tenure would have been the Marcos Carvajal for Yorvit Torrealba trade he made in 2005.
fist pumpz
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
2012: get ready for White Pomz!
We also got Quintanilla that way.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
sort of
Joe Kennedy (trade) and Jay Witasick (FA) were traded to Oakland for Eric Byrnes and Omar Quintanilla (pixie).
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by Andrew Martin on Aug 25, 2011 2:45 PM MDT up reply actions
Let me get this straight
A month ago, the Giants were heartily mocked for trading Zack Wheeler for Carlos Beltran, and now people are advocating the Rockies making the same types of moves?
Riiight…
How the world will end in 2012: George of the Roses builds a Machine that Pommels everyone with La Violencia during Whiteouts.
Which move is like that?
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by Andrew Martin on Aug 25, 2011 12:54 PM MDT up reply actions
I'm just saying
Look at some of the “established players” traded at this year’s deadline and the prospect packages it took to get them:
Zach Wheeler for Carlos Beltran
Drew Pomeranz and Alex White for Ubaldo Jimenez
Jared Cosart and Jonathan Singleton for Hunter Pence
And what the Astros wanted for Wandy
Teams these days are demanding a high price in prospects for their established guys, and with the Rockies’ “build from within” philosophy, I think it’s probably most prudent to develop our own guys.
How the world will end in 2012: George of the Roses builds a Machine that Pommels everyone with La Violencia during Whiteouts.
i really don't think anyone advocated giving up pomeranz or rosario for wandy rodriguez...
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
2012: get ready for White Pomz!
Yet it partially spurred this whole debate/rockpile
Ex Vice President in Charge of Leadoff K Monitoring of (Arguable) Fake Switch Hitters
Formerly Deputy Operations in Charge of Denoting Instances That Lanky Canadian Lefty's Were Scheduled To Pitch.
by Jeff Francis Day on Aug 25, 2011 1:07 PM MDT up reply actions
Sorry, that's just a strawman ...
No one advocated that trade. We were interested in Wandy because we thought the Stros might just give him to us for a bag of balls. Obviously, that wasn’t their purpose in putting him on waivers, so no harm no foul.
There are lots of awful prospects-for-MLB trades we would never make. Not sure why, just because Ed Wade might have suggested one of them, it argues against making them in general.
by BostonTransplant on Aug 25, 2011 3:37 PM MDT up reply actions
that's a bit of a selective sample.
I actually like that Pence trade for the Phillies, and the Astros didn’t get much for Bourn. The Blue Jays gave up relievers and no top prospects for Rasmus. Of course, another example of “too much” is what the Rangers gave for Mike Adams. There’s certainly a risk that this type of trade goes south, but it’s the supposed contending teams not taking those risks, like Minnesota, Cincinnati and Colorado, that find themselves looking up from a deep hole in the standings right now. I’m suggesting that it’s not altogether coincidental.
"suggesting that it’s not altogether coincidental"
brilliantly phrased.
Bing Bing Bing
I think you said the magic word, “risk.” Managing and judging risk is one of the hardest thing to do in any business, but especially when dealing with elite athletes who happen to be in their early twenties. We generally take very little risk (which is why the Jimenez trade was so surprising to me), making absolutely, 100% sure our guys aren’t going to become superstars before trying to move them. But by then everyone else knows it, too …
by BostonTransplant on Aug 25, 2011 3:33 PM MDT up reply actions
Where is anybody advocating that the Rockies do this?
There’s a big difference between trading prospects for players like Wandy Rodriguez, David Wright and Chase Headley and trading for Beltran. Why do you think they’re equivalent?
I'm not advocating for a valuble but fragile downsider to replace a prospect.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
I think I try to make a deal for Chase Headley as someone mentioned earlier
average to above average defense and the guy has posted a .300 batting average on the road so he can do better than he’s done in Petco. Switch hitter with decent pop who’s entering his prime right when the Padres are rebuilding.
The biggest problem is that we’d be buying high on him, the good side is that with Petco suppressing all of his numbers, buying high may still not be that high.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
I'm the one who keeps bringing him up. Renek mentioned him for Ianetta straight across , but haven't heard scince.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
That's not a realistic trade.
I’m sure the Padres want younger talent.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Aug 25, 2011 3:36 PM MDT up reply actions
and since we are in-division, it would be substantial
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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I can't imagine the price would be "substantial"
More expensive, sure, but I think the Rox could get him at a reasonable price.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Aug 25, 2011 3:41 PM MDT up reply actions
How about Tim Wheeler+Thomas Field?
Or maybe even Seth Smith + Thomas Field?
2011: A new year and a new chance at a championship.
Smith is getting too close to arb-eligible for the Padres right now
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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I view Seth Smith and Chris Iannetta as in the same boat.
Wheeler+Field would be good for me.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Aug 25, 2011 3:42 PM MDT up reply actions
I did not say that trade was; I was just glad that we at least got a sniff of a conversation for him.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
I really want CHeadley
Altar Boy in the Church of Santo Ubaldo
"...buffalo chicken is a fine anti-depressant, after all." -UZ
"... One order of buffalo wings, please..." -Yokel, after July 30, 2011
Maybe Stewart
plus Rutlege plus Wheeler for Headley and a bullpen arm??
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
They don't want to pay "Stewart" money to Headley now; why would they want Stewart?
That’s why I think we could get him for a reasonable price. They have someone in the wings ready to replace him for Minimum $$$$$$$. They don’t want to afford to keep him and need two prospects with potential to be at least average MLB to replace him in their model.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
I figured Stewart would be cheaper
without looking into it. If he’s not then yea, he really doesn’t make any sense for them…Maybe they covet him in SD…it could happen right?!?!
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
why would anyone covet Stewart?
he is a terrible baseball player and should’ve been out of the league by now.
Renck tweets Street may be available for Dodger series
Quick #Rockies’ blog on Huston Street. He’s likely to be activated for Dodgers’ series: http://bit.ly/nqljot
"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
The problem comes when the team wants to activate Lindstrom
Who goes back to AAA? I don’t see a reliever that jumps right out to me.
Roenicke until rosters expand? Probably
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Aug 25, 2011 3:42 PM MDT up reply actions
Luckily rosters expand really soon, so it won't be a huge issue.
Though I don’t know whether or not the 10 day rule applies if someone gets sent down 5 days before that happens.
He sure looked good last night
We saw the Sky Sox game for “bark in the park” night last night, and 2yo wanted to go for a walk during the top of the 9th so we watched Huston Street pitch from the concourse right behind the plate. He blew right through the Rainiers in a park where it’s hard to be very effective as a pitcher. :-)
"The game of baseball is made up of many little things. If we do all the little things right, then we'll never have a big thing to worry about" -- Cal Ripken, Sr.
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #3
Of course
but he had to stay with my wife in the grassy berm area while 2yo and I went for the walk (7yo dogs are better at sitting still than 2yo humans). Bark in the Park night is seriously awesome. For anyone that’s not familiar with it, you sit on the grass past 3rd base in a spot that would cost $35 at Coors Field for $5 or so and you can bring your dog.
"The game of baseball is made up of many little things. If we do all the little things right, then we'll never have a big thing to worry about" -- Cal Ripken, Sr.
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #3
We tried to do Paws at the Park once
when the Rockies had it at Coors. But it was a rainy night, the game was delayed for a while, and so we just stayed home. My dear old Sadie – who’s not with us anymore – was still active then but had reached the point where she wasn’t up for a 4-hour+ marathon.
by Northsider1964 on Aug 26, 2011 7:04 AM MDT up reply actions
She was 100 percent mutt
A stray puppy that I adopted and had for almost 15 years. Shaped like a Samoyed but smaller, with collie-like coloring.
Now we have two Keeshonds. Friendly and loveable dogs, without an obedient bone in their bodies.
by Northsider1964 on Aug 26, 2011 8:51 AM MDT up reply actions
Except for the game in which Romero and Roenicke blew up
and Tracy had to turn to Betancourt, the bullpen has actually had one of its better stretches of the season with Street and Lindstrom on the shelf. And while I’m not a Street basher, this bolsters my long-held belief that there are a handful of elite “closers” in the game and a whole bunch of highly paid guys who happen to pitch the 9th inning.
by Northsider1964 on Aug 26, 2011 7:01 AM MDT up reply actions
Why don't we dump the farm.
Just go out and get Wright to play 3rd and Pedroia to play 2nd?
I’m only kidding but think about that infield.
Prediction----> Cargo and Tulo will both have over 30 homers this year
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
It' so much fun playing with other people's money!
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
someone else chloroform Theo Epstein
I’ll put on a blazer and put a douchey smile on my face.
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by Andrew Martin on Aug 25, 2011 2:46 PM MDT up reply actions
It's four O'clock; where are your tacos?
I’m off to scout for some.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
We made tacos for dinner
All I had to do was say “Hey, hey,” and my daughter said the rest.
Altar Boy in the Church of Santo Ubaldo
"...buffalo chicken is a fine anti-depressant, after all." -UZ
"... One order of buffalo wings, please..." -Yokel, after July 30, 2011
I hate off days
Supporting efforts to create a genetic splice of Jonathan Herrera and Troy Tulowitzki since 2011.
The NewNugs 2011 - Officially back on the Bandwagon
I <3 Johnson
This.
And it’s the only free night I’ve had all week.
This year sucks.
by prettyinpurple on Aug 25, 2011 5:58 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
How are things?
"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Pretty awesome.
I know me and Calc are gonna hate each other though.
This year sucks.
by prettyinpurple on Aug 25, 2011 6:05 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Getting used to college life?
Paleface Destro: The Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The 2011 Rockies: Re-arranging the deck chairs on the S.S. Failboat
I snark because I care.
by Paleface Destro on Aug 25, 2011 6:00 PM MDT up reply actions
Heh, almost.
I do like it, but’s it’s been non-stop. Hope to get into routine soon here.
This year sucks.
by prettyinpurple on Aug 25, 2011 6:06 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, the first week or two is insane until you find a groove
Paleface Destro: The Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The 2011 Rockies: Re-arranging the deck chairs on the S.S. Failboat
I snark because I care.
by Paleface Destro on Aug 25, 2011 6:58 PM MDT up reply actions
you will be just fine
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
Wow, Yankees hit 3 GS in one game today
Can’t imagine why……
"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
STUPID GIMMICK PARK
Paleface Destro: The Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The 2011 Rockies: Re-arranging the deck chairs on the S.S. Failboat
I snark because I care.
by Paleface Destro on Aug 25, 2011 5:46 PM MDT up reply actions
22-9
Dear Lord…did they play that game in Colorado Springs???
Paleface Destro: The Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The 2011 Rockies: Re-arranging the deck chairs on the S.S. Failboat
I snark because I care.
by Paleface Destro on Aug 25, 2011 5:47 PM MDT up reply actions
Seriously. What a stupid score
"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Then again, I suppose Yankee Stadium plays pretty close to the same
Again, stupid gimmick park.
Paleface Destro: The Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The 2011 Rockies: Re-arranging the deck chairs on the S.S. Failboat
I snark because I care.
by Paleface Destro on Aug 25, 2011 5:50 PM MDT up reply actions
And they did it with 21 hits
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
Sounds like there was a walkopotamus or three loose today
Paleface Destro: The Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The 2011 Rockies: Re-arranging the deck chairs on the S.S. Failboat
I snark because I care.
by Paleface Destro on Aug 25, 2011 5:57 PM MDT up reply actions
rich harden
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
2012: get ready for White Pomz!
Actually..
It was mostly our boy Bruce Billings, who gave up 7 runs in 1.1 innings. Allowed 6 hits and 4 walks. Fuentes also allowed a run.
Alanna Rizzo is my dream girl.
by Cargo's Ball Sack5 on Aug 25, 2011 6:15 PM MDT up reply actions
"Fuentes also allowed a run"
We would have also accepted, “sky blue” or “water wet”.
Paleface Destro: The Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The 2011 Rockies: Re-arranging the deck chairs on the S.S. Failboat
I snark because I care.
by Paleface Destro on Aug 25, 2011 6:28 PM MDT up reply actions
"ty wigginton failed with RISP"
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
2012: get ready for White Pomz!
"Tulobarmewitzki after the 7th inning"
"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
JFK's Quote of the Day:
“Learn what pitch you can hit good; then wait for that pitch.” Source: National Baseball Hall of Fame (website) ~Willie Keeler
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
Go Astros. Beat the Gi...bhahahahaha
I can’t even say that with a straight face
"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Hey, they already won one series against them.
Paleface Destro: The Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The 2011 Rockies: Re-arranging the deck chairs on the S.S. Failboat
I snark because I care.
by Paleface Destro on Aug 25, 2011 5:50 PM MDT up reply actions
Oh don't get my hopes up
"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
But but but...2011!
Paleface Destro: The Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The 2011 Rockies: Re-arranging the deck chairs on the S.S. Failboat
I snark because I care.
by Paleface Destro on Aug 25, 2011 6:27 PM MDT up reply actions
so
yeah.
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
2012: get ready for White Pomz!
mmhmmm
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Aug 25, 2011 6:08 PM MDT up reply actions
werd
Paleface Destro: The Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The 2011 Rockies: Re-arranging the deck chairs on the S.S. Failboat
I snark because I care.
by Paleface Destro on Aug 25, 2011 6:26 PM MDT up reply actions
OT; So I just dropped my cooked salmon on the floor
3 second rule FTW
"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
hopefully you didn't occupy that time by writing this post
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
2012: get ready for White Pomz!
that would kind of defeat the purpose of the 3 second rule wouldn't it?
"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Thanks for nothing Nats
Dumb Dbacks up 2-0
"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Apparently O'Dowd offered Friedrich and to take on Wandy's entire contract.
Decent offer.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
i probably would have been okay with that
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
2012: get ready for White Pomz!
honestly, that's a pretty strong offer
Check out my blog about undergraduate science research
by black_knight101 on Aug 25, 2011 7:20 PM MDT up reply actions
That's better than they could reasonably expect
Maybe somebody beats it in the offseason, but everybody knows they want that contract off their books.
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Aug 25, 2011 9:00 PM MDT up reply actions
Nelson jacks a 3 run homer in his 1st AB back in the Springs
"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
of course he does
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
/2011
"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
/Colorado Springs
"Are they called the Rockies because they rock?" - 7 y.o.
by glaucophane on Aug 25, 2011 7:10 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Clearly a terrible non-prospect
Altar Boy in the Church of Santo Ubaldo
"...buffalo chicken is a fine anti-depressant, after all." -UZ
"... One order of buffalo wings, please..." -Yokel, after July 30, 2011
clearly a neutral pitcher friendly park
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by Andrew Martin on Aug 25, 2011 10:42 PM MDT up reply actions
I think Kyle Parker picked the right sport.
Another double tonight, hitting .342 with a 1.027 OPS the past 10 games.
He has a .959 OPS with 14 HR since the All Star break. Best of all? Not showing any platoon splits whatsoever.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
how are his Ks looking?
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
2012: get ready for White Pomz!
similar K rate, but a .394 OBP as well
I just wanted him to show he belonged this season; he’s done better than that.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Nats cut the lead to 2-1
Jayson Werth 0-4 with 8 LOB.
by coffeeis4closersonly on Aug 25, 2011 7:15 PM MDT reply actions
only 200k per RBI
that ain’t bad, right?
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
By that measure
he’s still a better value than Ian Stewart.
by coffeeis4closersonly on Aug 25, 2011 7:29 PM MDT up reply actions
LOL Olbermann tweets
In a nice bit of symmetry the Astros have recalled J.A. Happ and sent out J.B. Shuck. No comment from J.C. Romero or J.D. Drew.
"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF!
Clippard gets squeezed on 0-2 pitch then gives up RBI double.
by coffeeis4closersonly on Aug 25, 2011 7:28 PM MDT reply actions
And a 2-run bomb by Goldschmidt
9 GB headed into the weekend.
by coffeeis4closersonly on Aug 25, 2011 7:34 PM MDT up reply actions
Jim Thome traded to Cleveland
Buster_ESPN Buster Olney
by KeithOlbermann
Jim Thome has accepted a deal to the Indians.
"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Going home...
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Aug 25, 2011 9:07 PM MDT up reply actions
Tim Wheeler just hit HR #31
two in two nights after going almost a month without
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
regression
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
2012: get ready for White Pomz!
Looking at the probables for tomorrow
Noticed it’s Ubaldo vs Paulino and it’s amazing how similar their peripherals are. Not trying to say OMG we should have kept Paulino, or look how much Ubaldo has struggled, but interesting numbers indeed.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson
by Bloynoys on Aug 25, 2011 7:40 PM MDT via mobile reply actions
So the Nats are doing us no favors
"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Whoa watching Rangers v RedSox
Omar Quintanilla is playing 3rd for the Rangers.
"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Also played last night
He’s soooooooooo bad
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Aug 25, 2011 9:02 PM MDT up reply actions
I'll always have soft spot for Omar for his walk off dinger in 2008
"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Hitting .045 on the year.
Worse than Ian freaking Stewart.
Lol.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Aug 25, 2011 9:06 PM MDT up reply actions
holy smokes, I remember that game
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by Andrew Martin on Aug 25, 2011 10:43 PM MDT up reply actions
Least likely walk off HR ever
"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Go Stros!
"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Gints gint in a run
Which naturally involves a balk and an IF groundout. 2-1 Stros now…
Also, thanks to a thunderstorm I can’t get the HD feed of the game. I hate SD…..
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Aug 25, 2011 9:09 PM MDT up reply actions
...because PCL
Paleface Destro: The Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
The 2011 Rockies: Re-arranging the deck chairs on the S.S. Failboat
I snark because I care.
by Paleface Destro on Aug 25, 2011 9:03 PM MDT up reply actions
Getting worried Nelson's going to always be a AAAA player
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Aug 25, 2011 9:04 PM MDT up reply actions
That's what it looks like to me at this point....
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Aug 25, 2011 9:07 PM MDT up reply actions
eh...he's an MLB player because of his defense
there’s just no guarantee that he’s much more than a Johnny Herrera
Check out my blog about undergraduate science research
by black_knight101 on Aug 25, 2011 9:12 PM MDT up reply actions
You mean his shaky, inconsistent defense?
Ehhh. I love Nellie, and he has the potential to be a starting infielder. I’m just skeptical (as we all should be) at this point. Fair?
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Aug 25, 2011 9:13 PM MDT up reply actions
shaky and inconsistent
but he flashes a great glove at times. I’m definitely skeptical of his bat though as well.
Check out my blog about undergraduate science research
by black_knight101 on Aug 25, 2011 9:31 PM MDT up reply actions
Flashes a great glove, then will make a couple mistakes the next day.
That’s what I call…. Shaky and inconsistent.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Aug 25, 2011 9:33 PM MDT up reply actions
yeah...the Rox like his D though
they told Renck that. I think part of it may have to do with the fact that he was brough up in the system as a SS, and has played very little 2B or 3B.
Check out my blog about undergraduate science research
by black_knight101 on Aug 25, 2011 9:57 PM MDT up reply actions
Yeah, I agree with this
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Aug 25, 2011 10:22 PM MDT up reply actions
As long as DOD and Tracy are running the show.
Altar Boy in the Church of Santo Ubaldo
"...buffalo chicken is a fine anti-depressant, after all." -UZ
"... One order of buffalo wings, please..." -Yokel, after July 30, 2011
Gotta keep pace with Spilly...
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Aug 25, 2011 9:51 PM MDT up reply actions
You know. After all the blech of this season
if the Rockies could just finish ahead of the Giants….it might make everything better. I don’t care if that means we are in 4th place so long as the Giants are behind us.
"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
I think I'd be pretty happy with that as well
Check out my blog about undergraduate science research
by black_knight101 on Aug 25, 2011 9:58 PM MDT up reply actions
Agreed.
As long as the Giants don’t make the playoffs, I’ll be pretty happy.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Aug 25, 2011 10:21 PM MDT up reply actions
Yay!!!! 3-1 Stros now! woot
"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
109 pitches for Vogelsong.
Altar Boy in the Church of Santo Ubaldo
"...buffalo chicken is a fine anti-depressant, after all." -UZ
"... One order of buffalo wings, please..." -Yokel, after July 30, 2011
Yeah, Bochy is really running him into the ground.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Aug 25, 2011 10:22 PM MDT up reply actions
Who is this team leading the Giants
with lesser levels of derpage and what have they done with the Astros?
"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Shhh
Altar Boy in the Church of Santo Ubaldo
"...buffalo chicken is a fine anti-depressant, after all." -UZ
"... One order of buffalo wings, please..." -Yokel, after July 30, 2011
The Giants Lose! The Giants Lose! The Giants Lose!
"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
by SDcat09 on Aug 25, 2011 10:53 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Wooo
Altar Boy in the Church of Santo Ubaldo
"...buffalo chicken is a fine anti-depressant, after all." -UZ
"... One order of buffalo wings, please..." -Yokel, after July 30, 2011
Giants lose!!!
Alanna Rizzo is my dream girl.
by Cargo's Ball Sack5 on Aug 25, 2011 10:53 PM MDT reply actions
Beltran's just groaning at how bad that offense is
Purple Row - For all of your Colorado Rockies-related needs
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.260/.275/.420 with the Giants and 16 days on the DL?
Altar Boy in the Church of Santo Ubaldo
"...buffalo chicken is a fine anti-depressant, after all." -UZ
"... One order of buffalo wings, please..." -Yokel, after July 30, 2011
yeah he hasn't been much better
bad trades make me sad. I like to see good, fair trades and good, fair matchups.
Purple Row - For all of your Colorado Rockies-related needs
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by Andrew Martin on Aug 25, 2011 11:06 PM MDT up reply actions
we can still have beltran succeed while the rest of the giants collapse around him
i would be extra ok with that
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
2012: get ready for White Pomz!
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