Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Full Coverage of 2012 Coke 600

Thursday Rockpile: Looking back on the significant dates of 2011, as 2012 schedule comes out

MILWAUKEE, WI - SEPTEMBER 14: Willin Rosario #12 of the Colorado Rockies discusses a call with umpire Marvin Hudson during the game against the Milwaukee Brewers at Miller Park on September 14, 2011 in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. (Photo by Scott Boehm/Getty Images)

April 29: Thanks to rain (and in the case of one game in Chicago, the mere threat of rain) the Rockies wound up with a three day break after raising their record to 16-7 on April 26th. Little did we realize that day would be the season's high point. Scoring zero runs at home against Kevin Correia and the Pirates is a terrible omen. Looking at the boxscore, the key issues were all at the top of the lineup. One hit, by Carlos Gonzalez, a walk from Jonathan Herrera and a bunch of nothing otherwise. After starting off the season well, Herrera and Dexter Fowler were entering a cold spell that would wind up tanking the Rockies season. 

June 7: The start of the Charlie Blackmon era. While the Rockies would lose this first start of his, they returned to being a .500 team for the next month that he was with the team. His hot hitting for the first couple of weeks of that stretch keyed a run, as Blackmon cooled, so did the team. 

July 7: The end of the Blackmon era. It came in the midst of what would become the team's season long losing streak to date of five games, and part of a four game sweep in Atlanta. The losing streak began a two month slide that has dissuaded any notion that the Rockies were capable of contending in 2011. On July 2nd, in fact, Colorado was just a game under .500, 3.5 games behind Arizona and had outscored their opponents season to date by a dozen runs. The Diamondbacks had only outscored their opponents by nine runs, note the divergent paths of the two teams since. 

July 15: Dexter Fowler returns from AAA and combined with Mark Ellis, finally provides stability at the top of the lineup for the Rockies. Unfortunately by this point the pitching is in disarray and as inconsistent as the lineup had been in May.

July 30: As far as the story of the season's win/loss record goes, this game comes in the middle of a two month long malaise that started with that five game losing streak mentioned above. This was the end of a three game win streak, and just before another four game losing streak. This particular game, of course, is much more symbolically significant than any of the rest. The trade of Ubaldo Jimenez didn't light a spark for the team, nor did it let the season careen any more off the rails than it already had been. The Rockies were 10-14 in the 24 games leading up to this, they were 12-12 in the 24 games after this. I actually think that's a pretty sad indictment of the 2011 club right there. You'd think something would happen with the trade of the ace. Instead, it's just taken in stride.

I think there might be another, more recent date of significance for the season as it seems the Rockies have turned around a little, and later when we have a little more chance for retrospection, we can look for it. One thing it might be, though, is just clearing Arizona off the schedule. The Rockies as a team always seem to cower to the Alpha dog in the division, regardless of which team it is at the time. Since the All Star break, Colorado has just a 2-7 record against the D-backs.

At any rate, here are a couple of links:

Millwood makes mark with Rockies - The Associated Press's Colin Fly writes about the most consistent of Rockies starters of late. 

Carlos Gonzalez continues to hit- Also other notes from the Denver Post's Jim Armstrong.

2012 schedule starts with 'Stros - thank heaven it's not Snakes this time. It's always snakes.

Colorado Springs, good or evil? - My opinion is that there's nothing good that comes of the place for the Rockies. Unlike Tulsa. Tulsa helps us a lot. The Springs? It just gives us hack hitters and timid pitchers.

Comment 215 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

The Springs seems to rejuvenate Dex...

"Surgeons have determined that doing the wave will, yes, will cause tears to the suprapinatus muscle and the infraspinatus muscle from the throwing of an individual's arms rapidly into the air. In addition, any children doing the wave will be sold to the circus. Do NOT do the wave in the ballpark. Doing the wave is safe at pro football games and Miley Cyrus concerts.
-scoreboard announcement at Ranger Ballpark in Arlington via Baseball Nation.

by RdRnnr on Sep 15, 2011 9:33 AM MDT reply actions  

The leg kick

came after he got back up. Too bad they didn’t just start having him do that before he got sent down.

by webgem14 on Sep 15, 2011 10:33 AM MDT up reply actions  

Wow, I thought that was implemented when he was sent down.

What the heck was he doing down there if it wasn’t working on that?

"My eyes! The goggles do nothing!" - Rainier Wolfcastle

by BittenAnkles on Sep 15, 2011 10:35 AM MDT up reply actions  

Walking 5 times in one game but not scoring once

~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~

by TomCat009 on Sep 15, 2011 10:36 AM MDT up reply actions  

that was hilarious

the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox

be happy, because 2012 is coming.

by papality on Sep 15, 2011 11:01 AM MDT up reply actions  

Too bad he won't steal a base from time-to-time.

"Pain don't hurt" - Swayze (Road House) -- We miss you man!

by bonaire on Sep 15, 2011 11:34 AM MDT up reply actions  

that was part of why he didn't score on those 5 BB he got caught stealing twice

~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~

by TomCat009 on Sep 15, 2011 11:36 AM MDT up reply actions  

Yikes. Maybe he needs to go back and work on it...

…nice to have a leadoff hitter steal bases. Or maybe stealing at the top of the lineup is overrated and we should put a doubles hitter there. Calling Seth Smith.

"Pain don't hurt" - Swayze (Road House) -- We miss you man!

by bonaire on Sep 15, 2011 11:52 AM MDT up reply actions  

I would not mind a Smith/Dex/Cargo/Tulo top of the lineup

Maybe move Field there if he can win the 2B job in ST

~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~

by TomCat009 on Sep 15, 2011 11:54 AM MDT up reply actions  

I would like the experiment.

"Pain don't hurt" - Swayze (Road House) -- We miss you man!

by bonaire on Sep 15, 2011 11:56 AM MDT up reply actions  

no

he is a terrible base stealer. It would literally be better if he never, ever tried to steal a base again.

by ween1980 on Sep 15, 2011 11:45 AM MDT up reply actions  

Originally

he had an ab- strain. Other than that I think they just sent him down to magically cut down on his strikeouts. There seemed like no real plan. Personally I thought his demotion was a waste of time, especially seeing as his replacements, including Blackmon, actually underperformed compared to what he had done pre-demotion.

by webgem14 on Sep 15, 2011 10:39 AM MDT up reply actions  

In light of this new knowledge, I completely agree.

If you are going to send someone down, it seems like you have to give them something tangible to work on. Not just, “Hey, cut that strike-out stuff out!”. Here is some inferior pitching to help you with that.

At least something eventually changed and Dex is on a good path now.

"My eyes! The goggles do nothing!" - Rainier Wolfcastle

by BittenAnkles on Sep 15, 2011 10:46 AM MDT up reply actions  

Dexter said he was glad to have gone because he needed to get his head cleared

without pressure. He had some “things” to work on.


In all things, it is better to hope than despair.

by butterfly on Sep 15, 2011 10:51 AM MDT up reply actions  

Doctors have determined the wave causes sterility....

    A saving grace for the gene pool eventually.

"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana

by Oldfoagie on Sep 15, 2011 9:59 AM MDT up reply actions  

Is Triple A even relevant in player development anymore? It seems like out best guys jump up from Tulsa.

Is this due to a conscious decision by management not to expose top prospects (especially pitchers) to Colorado Springs? Is this a result of “fast-tracking” players to the bigs? They certainly could have moved Rosario up to AAA, but they seemed to think Tulsa was more beneficial.

When I look at the Sky Sox roster, all I see are guys trying to hang on to a baseball career (Mike Jacobs, Willy Taveras, etc.) and AAAA talent guys like Mortenson and Garner. Charlie Blackmon, Jordan Pacheco, Rex Brothers, and Chris Nelson were basically the only guys who started the year there that could be considered prospects.

For the Rockies, the most value they get out of the Sky Sox is a home to dump underachieving big-leaguers like Stewart and Fowler, and a spot for rehab assignments that is geographically close to the Big-League club.

Do other teams funnel top prospects through AAA? Am I looking at this weirdly?

"My eyes! The goggles do nothing!" - Rainier Wolfcastle

by BittenAnkles on Sep 15, 2011 9:54 AM MDT reply actions  

I have been wondering about this as well

I don’t follow the PCL that closely, are other teams using AAA as a place to store potential back-ups and keeping prospects at AA too?

by Rosenort on Sep 15, 2011 9:58 AM MDT up reply actions  

The Rockies are not the only team that treats AAA as an extended roster

rather than a development zone. I still think this is uncommon though, partially due to the nature of the Springs and the PCL.

What has usually been the case recently is that MLB-level guys don’t spend very long at AAA. In most organizations, if they are on the MLB-track, they spend less than 100 games there. They might spend more time at a lower in an attempt to work out any kinks or to matures, but once they are ready, they move pretty quickly through AAA.

by DumbAndNerdy on Sep 15, 2011 10:08 AM MDT up reply actions  

I see two options available for this issue:

Work with the Sky Sox ownership and CO Springs and get stadium down in the valley.

Or two: move the AAA affiliate to Tulsa and the AA affiliate to another city for the TL (Wichita)

FFFFFFFFFFF.

/it is a new beginning, right?

by The Lodo Magic Man on Sep 15, 2011 10:24 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

I was thinking about this too. I was having a little bit of a hard time coming up with a city that could be in the PCL, but not be extreme like C.Springs.

A few ideas I have are to move the team to Phoenix and play at SrFATS? it would be hot, but a good place for rehab assignments.

I was also thinking about a place like Topeka or Wichita as you mentioned. Grand Junction would also be a decent place, plus it is only 4 hours away.

"My eyes! The goggles do nothing!" - Rainier Wolfcastle

by BittenAnkles on Sep 15, 2011 10:32 AM MDT up reply actions  

That wouldn't cure the problem

playing in the dessert would be nearly as bad as playing at high elevation.

by webgem14 on Sep 15, 2011 10:35 AM MDT up reply actions  

Humidor.

"My eyes! The goggles do nothing!" - Rainier Wolfcastle

by BittenAnkles on Sep 15, 2011 10:36 AM MDT up reply actions  

but oh so sweet.....

We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!

In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener

by Junction Rox on Sep 15, 2011 11:06 AM MDT up reply actions  

but is just as high as CoSprings right?

~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~

by TomCat009 on Sep 15, 2011 10:36 AM MDT up reply actions  

Which place?

Colorado Springs is 6500 feet. Grand Junction is 4500 feet.

Topeka and Wichita are around 1000 ft.

Use a humidor in GJ and I think you’re back into reality.

"My eyes! The goggles do nothing!" - Rainier Wolfcastle

by BittenAnkles on Sep 15, 2011 10:40 AM MDT up reply actions  

Makes sense especially since GJ is a baseball town already

~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~

by TomCat009 on Sep 15, 2011 10:46 AM MDT up reply actions  

Your right, theyhave the facilities in place.

I am surprised they haven’t tried harder to attract a team. There is definitely interest. I grew up in Delta (40 miles south) and when the JUCO World series came to town, there was a lot of excitement.

"My eyes! The goggles do nothing!" - Rainier Wolfcastle

by BittenAnkles on Sep 15, 2011 10:56 AM MDT up reply actions  

My dad went to Mesa and said the town used to close down

~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~

by TomCat009 on Sep 15, 2011 11:02 AM MDT up reply actions  

Did he happen to mention how Mesa games drew?

There is a school of thought that GJ isn’t a baseball town, it’s a Juco town. Attendance for Mesa Colorado Mesa U. games and HS games would give that impression. It will be interesting to see if that’s different for a MiLB team when one comes (and whether it’s Casper or another team, I think it’s inevitable). I think it will be…

We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!

In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener

by Junction Rox on Sep 15, 2011 11:14 AM MDT up reply actions  

Casper is a mapdot population wise compared to GJ

The whole state of Wyoming only has about three times the population of GJ/Glenwood/Delta/Montrose

~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~

by TomCat009 on Sep 15, 2011 11:19 AM MDT up reply actions  

They are working on attracting a team

as of an interview I heard about a month ago, the idea of Casper moving to GJ sounded like it was still very much in the picture. The stadium facility is having a major renovation that will be ready by next May. Apparently (this all came from the head of the Juco committee, who is not directly involved in the talk of getting a MiLB team here, but as well connected in baseball circles as it is possible to be) there have been some pretty extensive negotiations. The way he characterized it was “this is the best opportunity we have had to get a team to Grand Junction”.

But a AAA team would be a whole different thing. For one thing, the 302’ LF fence would have to be moved for a AAA team – I think it could be a problem for a Rookie league team, but no way it’s good for AAA. And the 12,000 seat ballpark is impressive, but I’m not sure how that would fit with AAA markets. Plus, I’d rather have a rookie league team anyway. At least that way we’d get to see some actual prospects…

We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!

In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener

by Junction Rox on Sep 15, 2011 11:12 AM MDT up reply actions  

It is about 3.5/4 hours from Denver to either Casper or GJ

and GJ has an actual airport so I like that Idea, if we are going to have baseball in Wyoming maybe we could move Ti-cities to Laramie

~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~

by TomCat009 on Sep 15, 2011 11:15 AM MDT up reply actions  

I did some Mapquesting last offseason

when this subject came up. Road trips in that league from GJ added up to being a few hundred more miles than from Casper, I think. Orem and Provo were much, much closer, but there were a couple Montana trips where GJ added some miles. Overall, not that different.

If we want to do baseball in Wyoming, maybe they could put something together in Fort Collins…

We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!

In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener

by Junction Rox on Sep 15, 2011 11:19 AM MDT up reply actions  

Laramie is only about a 1 hour drive from CSU

but I wouldn’t mind us looking at getting the Topes either

~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~

by TomCat009 on Sep 15, 2011 11:22 AM MDT up reply actions  

Yeah, Laramie is a lot closer to

the Colorado front range than Casper. I have no idea what Laramie has in terms of facilities, though…

We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!

In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener

by Junction Rox on Sep 15, 2011 11:24 AM MDT up reply actions  

Tulsa is at 722'

FFFFFFFFFFF.

/it is a new beginning, right?

by The Lodo Magic Man on Sep 15, 2011 10:46 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

Move them to Salt Lake as soon as their PDC expires with the Angels (after 2012, I believe).

At ~4500 feet, a humidor would probably be necessary, but all of the other weird factors aren’t in place.

I guess I should mention that I would also like this since I live in Salt Lake.

Just an average guy with exceptional hair. Nothing more, nothing less.
Bear Naked - My thoughts on sports, music, and life.

by Bryan Kilpatrick on Sep 15, 2011 10:37 AM MDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't be opposed to this either.

Plus it would help cement SLC in the Rockies fanbase. They get the games on Root right?

"My eyes! The goggles do nothing!" - Rainier Wolfcastle

by BittenAnkles on Sep 15, 2011 10:42 AM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

Yes.

No radio though, which irks me.

Just an average guy with exceptional hair. Nothing more, nothing less.
Bear Naked - My thoughts on sports, music, and life.

by Bryan Kilpatrick on Sep 15, 2011 10:54 AM MDT up reply actions  

I'm partially wrong here...

The Rockies’ PDC expires after the 2012 season. The Angels’ doesn’t end until after 2014.

Just an average guy with exceptional hair. Nothing more, nothing less.
Bear Naked - My thoughts on sports, music, and life.

by Bryan Kilpatrick on Sep 15, 2011 10:55 AM MDT up reply actions  

I agree with this plan

I would go to a lot more games if Salt Lake was the Rockies affiliate.

by Utah Rockies Fan on Sep 15, 2011 11:55 AM MDT up reply actions  

I don't think GJ would work for a AAA team (too small) or a AA team (distance)

Tulsa is probably the best option if the organization gets the AAA team out of COS (they probably should)

-not an extreme environment either way
-the city is big enough to support it
-there is already a big enough new facility to use

FFFFFFFFFFF.

/it is a new beginning, right?

by The Lodo Magic Man on Sep 15, 2011 10:44 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

what do you think is the appropriate size city for a AAA team?

Does the size of the city really matter between the levels? There is about 180,000 people within an hour of GJ. That seems like enough.

"My eyes! The goggles do nothing!" - Rainier Wolfcastle

by BittenAnkles on Sep 15, 2011 11:01 AM MDT up reply actions  

Probably starting around 300k

Don’t get me wrong, GJ would probably be fine for a AA team or definitely anything lower, there is just no AA league west of Texas.

FFFFFFFFFFF.

/it is a new beginning, right?

by The Lodo Magic Man on Sep 15, 2011 11:09 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

What about going after Omaha or Rapid City?

~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~

by TomCat009 on Sep 15, 2011 11:12 AM MDT up reply actions  

nebraska is a football state

the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox

be happy, because 2012 is coming.

by papality on Sep 15, 2011 11:15 AM MDT up reply actions  

The Omaha Royals do okay

Joba, and Alex Gordon are both from there

~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~

by TomCat009 on Sep 15, 2011 11:19 AM MDT up reply actions  

It's the Omaha Storm Chasers now

Blech

FFFFFFFFFFF.

/it is a new beginning, right?

by The Lodo Magic Man on Sep 15, 2011 11:22 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

Yikes did not know, do not like

~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~

by TomCat009 on Sep 15, 2011 11:30 AM MDT up reply actions  

Their unis are absolutely atrocious, too.

Just an average guy with exceptional hair. Nothing more, nothing less.
Bear Naked - My thoughts on sports, music, and life.

by Bryan Kilpatrick on Sep 15, 2011 11:52 AM MDT up reply actions  

Wichita has a population of 300,000

Largest city in the state except for Kansas City and its not even the capital

Prediction---->Well, Tulo got his 30 homers. Cargo? The countdown is beginning to number 30. 26 down. 4 to go. Plus, Cargo will get 100 RBI's also. 8 to go.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.

by Roxman4ever on Sep 15, 2011 4:51 PM MDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't do the Junction.

If they’re staying in Colorado, they should move to the North. Loveland already has the Eagles up there, and they get pretty good support.

by DumbAndNerdy on Sep 15, 2011 10:45 AM MDT up reply actions  

Loveland/Ft Collins might not be a bad idea

although maybe start with a A/A+ team to see how they draw

~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~

by TomCat009 on Sep 15, 2011 10:48 AM MDT up reply actions  

We have a Mountain Collegiate Baseball team

The Fort Collins Foxes – not sure how well they do. Also we don’t really have a facility in place.

The Martha Stewart of processed foods.

Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.

Video tips on posting links and images to Purple Row - Click Here -

My Photography Website

My Photography on Facebook

by hotdoglady on Sep 15, 2011 11:12 AM MDT up reply actions  

I was thinking more like splitting the difference ALA the Budweiser Event Center

~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~

by TomCat009 on Sep 15, 2011 11:16 AM MDT up reply actions  

They would still

have to build a facility.

The Martha Stewart of processed foods.

Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.

Video tips on posting links and images to Purple Row - Click Here -

My Photography Website

My Photography on Facebook

by hotdoglady on Sep 15, 2011 11:19 AM MDT up reply actions  

True but the tax revenue from that area could probably handle that

~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~

by TomCat009 on Sep 15, 2011 11:20 AM MDT up reply actions  

its actually pretty taxed right now

not sure if they would support financing a project right now.

The Martha Stewart of processed foods.

Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.

Video tips on posting links and images to Purple Row - Click Here -

My Photography Website

My Photography on Facebook

by hotdoglady on Sep 15, 2011 11:21 AM MDT up reply actions  

what is the rate there?

~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~

by TomCat009 on Sep 15, 2011 11:23 AM MDT up reply actions  

The sales tax is only 6.7%

but they also have built a lot of stuff there recently that has a “usage tax” on top of that 6.7.

The Martha Stewart of processed foods.

Super Overlady Of the Ubaldo Lovers Club.
Proud Member of the PR gynocracy.

Video tips on posting links and images to Purple Row - Click Here -

My Photography Website

My Photography on Facebook

by hotdoglady on Sep 15, 2011 11:27 AM MDT up reply actions  

And I'm not sure the organization would ask

when you’ve got another town in-state with a facility in place, plus Colorado Springs already in place if we’re still talking about the AAA team.

We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!

In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener

by Junction Rox on Sep 15, 2011 11:23 AM MDT up reply actions  

The difference is that the Rockies do not own the team,

nor the facility. I honestly don’t see them doing this, but it’d be a more parallel move if they wanted to get out of the Springs but stay in Colorado.

by DumbAndNerdy on Sep 15, 2011 11:42 AM MDT up reply actions  

They do own the Rookie league team

or at least a significant portion of it.

With the AAA team I’m pretty sure they have some pretty significant input where it will be located…

We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!

In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener

by Junction Rox on Sep 15, 2011 11:51 AM MDT up reply actions  

Yeah, well, who asked you???

;-)

We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!

In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener

by Junction Rox on Sep 15, 2011 11:16 AM MDT up reply actions  

you know,

personally, I think I see a clear way that the team can use CO springs to their advantage. If they install a humidor so that it plays much more closely to Coors, then it could be a respectable hitting environment where hitters can actually take time to learn how to maneuver between hitting on the road and hitting at home – there’s really no reason why hitters should have to 100% learn that with the MLB club while simultaneously adjusting to ML ball.

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Sep 15, 2011 5:43 PM MDT up reply actions  

Nelson isn't remotely a prospect anymore

I don’t see anything of ML value in his skill set, and he’s had a decent opportunity now. At least Herrera can field.

Nelson should be in the dictionary next to “AAAA player.” I assume he will be released soon.

by BostonTransplant on Sep 15, 2011 10:46 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

In 25 PA, Wilin Rosario has double the WAR that Herrera had in 320 PA.

I’m sure this has something to do with positions, but its funny.

"My eyes! The goggles do nothing!" - Rainier Wolfcastle

by BittenAnkles on Sep 15, 2011 10:06 AM MDT reply actions  

yeah but Herrera is CarGo’s best friend on the team so you can count on him being here next year

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Sep 15, 2011 10:14 AM MDT up reply actions  

I am okay with Herrera on the team in the role he is in right now

he can take a walk and play decent defense about what you expect a super U to do. I would however like Field to hit well enough in ST to take the starting 2B position.

~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~

by TomCat009 on Sep 15, 2011 10:21 AM MDT up reply actions  

I would like to do better than Herrera.

Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings

by Muzia on Sep 15, 2011 10:24 AM MDT up reply actions  

Herrera has a BB% of 8.9% and a K% of 13.4% his BABIP this year is down 60 poiints

from last year, say he splits the difference and has a .300 BABIP instead of .270 and his season line is .272/.343/.329 which isn’t good but not bad for a guy who can play decent IF defense

~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~

by TomCat009 on Sep 15, 2011 10:35 AM MDT up reply actions  

Sure, and I would like to do better.

Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings

by Muzia on Sep 15, 2011 10:39 AM MDT up reply actions  

From?

FA? Trade? Our Farm?

~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~

by TomCat009 on Sep 15, 2011 10:40 AM MDT up reply actions  

long term? Field is an ideal candidate.

Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings

by Muzia on Sep 15, 2011 10:41 AM MDT up reply actions  

Yeah but if Field doesn't take the job next spring Rutledge

could be hot on his heels

~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~

by TomCat009 on Sep 15, 2011 10:48 AM MDT up reply actions  

Field long term utility guy

Rutledge 2B of the Future™

Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings

by Muzia on Sep 15, 2011 10:52 AM MDT up reply actions  

I'd like to do better

than all but 3 or 4 of our current projected 2012 players. Herrera is relatively low on the must replace list I think. Which isn’t to say we shouldn’t.

by Teekalong on Sep 15, 2011 10:40 AM MDT up reply actions  

As long as the Jim Tracy is the manager

I doubt he’ll be the 25th man on the roster.

I'm pretty disgusted right now!

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Sep 15, 2011 11:29 AM MDT up reply actions  

thats the problem though...hes fine

its like just settling for the #25th hottest girl or guy in your class. Shes fine for the 25th hottest right? Hell nooooooooooooo, I want better than that

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Sep 15, 2011 1:35 PM MDT up reply actions  

few teams have a better 25th

than herrera

the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox

be happy, because 2012 is coming.

by papality on Sep 15, 2011 1:37 PM MDT up reply actions  

Herrera gobbled up over 300 PA and has 0.1 WAR to show for it.

His wRC+ is 62. I am sure there is some better in the utility infield role.

The other issue I have is that Herrera has not been used like the 25th man. He was the starting 2B for a long time. Maybe if he was strictly a utility guy getting a spot start and late inning defensive replacement work, I wouldn’t care. But when he is on the roster, Tracy will inexplicably play him about 60 percent more than he should. (Kind of what RIRF said)

My last complaint about Herrera is that he isn’t going to develop any skills that would increase his value. He doesn’t have power, he seems like a patient hitter, but he’s only walked 13 times in his last 223 PA, (He walked 15 times in April), and he doesn’t steal bases (non since April). He plays nice defense and puts the ball in play, but he’s pretty much worthless as far as I am concerned.

Time to try someone else… Field?

"My eyes! The goggles do nothing!" - Rainier Wolfcastle

by BittenAnkles on Sep 15, 2011 1:48 PM MDT up reply actions  

The problem has really been the dearth of options at 2B.

Since Ellis arrived, Herrera has not been used nearly as much.

by holly96 on Sep 15, 2011 1:59 PM MDT up reply actions  

right

but most teams also have a manager who isn’t stupid enough to give their 25th man 350 plate appearances.

by ween1980 on Sep 15, 2011 1:51 PM MDT up reply actions  

won't get any argument from me

i’ve been against tracy for ages

the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox

be happy, because 2012 is coming.

by papality on Sep 15, 2011 1:52 PM MDT up reply actions  

Most teams have multiple Herrera's floating in their system

He’s not anything special by any definition.

Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings

by Muzia on Sep 15, 2011 1:51 PM MDT up reply actions  

no

but no 25th man is, that’s the point of him

the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox

be happy, because 2012 is coming.

by papality on Sep 15, 2011 1:52 PM MDT up reply actions  

Pachecoooooooooooooooo

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Sep 15, 2011 5:44 PM MDT up reply actions  

You forgot the biggest/most significant date of the season IMO

May 24: DLR’s arm goes “pop”

Wait, what's his real name? We should make a joke out of that.

by BrandonHawpe on Sep 15, 2011 10:12 AM MDT reply actions  

This

at least has to be one them.

by webgem14 on Sep 15, 2011 10:19 AM MDT up reply actions  

“He said his name was snakes”
“Snakes…snakes…I don’t know no snakes”
“I’ve heard that name before”

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Sep 15, 2011 10:13 AM MDT reply actions   1 recs

It almost feels weird to play the Giants tonight

It’s been so long since these two team last met – And so much has changed.

I'm pretty disgusted right now!

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Sep 15, 2011 10:14 AM MDT reply actions  

I know! Maybe we'll finally have

an also-rans brawl

"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Sep 15, 2011 12:09 PM MDT up reply actions  

how many times this year have i yearned for a fight?

sigh…

the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox

be happy, because 2012 is coming.

by papality on Sep 15, 2011 12:09 PM MDT up reply actions  

I've wanted one since opening day.

"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Sep 15, 2011 12:10 PM MDT up reply actions  

ATF

Your prime offseason FA target Josh Willingham is having quite the interesting season, in case you hadn’t noticed.

at least a 112+ wRC player for every month this season except for June, good for a 127 wRC+ for the season and with no discernable LH/RH splits.

Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings

by Muzia on Sep 15, 2011 10:51 AM MDT reply actions  

(though with a pretty extreme K rate)

Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings

by Muzia on Sep 15, 2011 10:52 AM MDT up reply actions  

*pays Ty Wigginton instead*

FFFFFFFFFFF.

/it is a new beginning, right?

by The Lodo Magic Man on Sep 15, 2011 10:52 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

Adding him and Napoli would have made this a different team

Probably would have cost us some bullpen depth but definitely would have given us a different look against LHP

~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~

by TomCat009 on Sep 15, 2011 11:01 AM MDT up reply actions  

Imagine

What adding Michael Young would’ve done

"Don't give up, don't ever give up" - Jim Valvano

by nodakroxfan on Sep 15, 2011 11:17 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

Maybe but I don't want to pay MY for the next two years

Willingham, Napoli, and Wiggy combined make about the same

~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~

by TomCat009 on Sep 15, 2011 11:21 AM MDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I would LOVE to have MY for the next two years

Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings

by Muzia on Sep 15, 2011 11:22 AM MDT up reply actions  

HE WAS A GG SS THREE YEARS AGO!!!!!

~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~

by TomCat009 on Sep 15, 2011 11:24 AM MDT up reply actions  

Derek Jeter was a GG SS last year

Just sayin’… :-)

We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!

In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener

by Junction Rox on Sep 15, 2011 11:25 AM MDT up reply actions  

I’d happily take a 3.0-4.0 WAR player at 2B or 3B right now, regardless of salary.

Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings

by Muzia on Sep 15, 2011 11:28 AM MDT up reply actions  

if you like Wiggy at 3B you would love MY at 2B

~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~

by TomCat009 on Sep 15, 2011 11:33 AM MDT up reply actions  

As long as he brings his bat with him, I could honestly care less.

Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings

by Muzia on Sep 15, 2011 11:34 AM MDT up reply actions  

Mark Ellis was a 3.4 WAR 2B last year and has been on that same pace

here, he has been a 3+ WAR player 3 of the past 5 years, and he is not making 16 Million a year.

~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~

by TomCat009 on Sep 15, 2011 11:39 AM MDT up reply actions  

Ellis' defense is off-the-charts good

We need a pure bat in the lineup, and I have much more faith going forward in MY than in someone like Ellis at the twilight of his career.

Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings

by Muzia on Sep 15, 2011 11:42 AM MDT up reply actions  

(but this is all a moot point anyway)

Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings

by Muzia on Sep 15, 2011 11:42 AM MDT up reply actions  

I like Young, but the combination

of taking the Payroll north of 90-95 Million, his age(35) and his bad defense means I am out

~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~

by TomCat009 on Sep 15, 2011 11:46 AM MDT up reply actions  

pretty sure we have the capability for a ~$100 mil payroll

the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox

be happy, because 2012 is coming.

by papality on Sep 15, 2011 11:48 AM MDT up reply actions  

I hope so but unless it is the final piece of the puzzle

I don’t see the Monforts going all in like that. The young talent on this team means they are looking at 2013-16 as our window to be north of 100 million.

~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~

by TomCat009 on Sep 15, 2011 11:51 AM MDT up reply actions  

I want the Hammer badly

Prediction---->Well, Tulo got his 30 homers. Cargo? The countdown is beginning to number 30. 26 down. 4 to go. Plus, Cargo will get 100 RBI's also. 8 to go.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.

by Roxman4ever on Sep 15, 2011 4:53 PM MDT up reply actions  

Willingham

Gomes, or Andruw Jones would be an excellent acquisition to platoon.

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Sep 15, 2011 5:45 PM MDT up reply actions  

i've been barking up the jones tree a bit lately

although it would be ridiculous if the yankees let him go

the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox

be happy, because 2012 is coming.

by papality on Sep 15, 2011 6:38 PM MDT up reply actions  

In Oakland, no less...

Maybe that should go on the calendar-of-downfalls as well?

by juno106 on Sep 15, 2011 10:59 AM MDT reply actions  

what if tampa makes it to the playoffs?

how does that change the AL MVP narrative? i think it would essentially remove ellsbury/a-gone from the popular conversation, just as how the mets and phillies ended 2007 removed wright from MVP consideration

the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox

be happy, because 2012 is coming.

by papality on Sep 15, 2011 11:11 AM MDT reply actions  

i hope verlander does get it

but the only way i see it happening is bautista and ellsbury/a-gone splitting votes and verlander just getting enough; i feel he means way more to the tigers than the others do to their teams. but if bautista wins i’m more than okay with it.

the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox

be happy, because 2012 is coming.

by papality on Sep 15, 2011 11:47 AM MDT up reply actions  

Michael Young for MVP

perfect end to the Rockies’ 2011 season

2011 Rockies -- what the hell?

by maris61 on Sep 15, 2011 11:49 AM MDT up reply actions  

If Ver gets to 26+ wins all bets are off

If Bautista gets to 50HR he wins it walking away

~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~

by TomCat009 on Sep 15, 2011 11:48 AM MDT up reply actions  

They'll be slowing Verlander down some, I'd think.

But, at this point, he can pitch the minimum amount of innings and still get a win with the way the Tigers are scoring runs.

by DumbAndNerdy on Sep 15, 2011 11:51 AM MDT up reply actions  

Having Miggy, VMArt, Avila will do that for you

~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~

by TomCat009 on Sep 15, 2011 11:53 AM MDT up reply actions  

I think Verlander is a no-brainer

Maybe best year for a SP since, what, RON Guidry? Could be 26 wins, 250 innings, WHIP under 1.00. With a weak field, I mean, come on!

by BostonTransplant on Sep 15, 2011 11:53 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

Eckersley won it in 92 and 22 times a pitcher has won it

Ver will probably at least get a top 5 finish

~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~

by TomCat009 on Sep 15, 2011 11:58 AM MDT up reply actions  

A starting pitcher hasn't won it since 1986.

I just don’t see it happening, even though I think it is the right move. He has been the catalyst for the Tigers coming out of a cold start and beating the crap out of the AL Central.

by DumbAndNerdy on Sep 15, 2011 12:00 PM MDT up reply actions  

I think there are several good choice in both leagues

but the whole “the CY is for the pitchers” thing will likely limit his chances though

~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~

by TomCat009 on Sep 15, 2011 12:03 PM MDT up reply actions  

greinke was better in 09, and pedro was better several times, as was clemens

the key factor here is verlander is carrying his team to the postseason

the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox

be happy, because 2012 is coming.

by papality on Sep 15, 2011 12:08 PM MDT up reply actions  

Yeah it took the games best defensive Catcher hitting

.335 with 35HR and 25SB to keep Pedro from winning it in 99. The thing about Grienke is guys like Woody Paige/Mark Kizla would never vote for Grienke, 26+ wins get a lot of traditional voters.

~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~

by TomCat009 on Sep 15, 2011 12:11 PM MDT up reply actions  

Is Verlander really carrying his team to the playoffs? Really?

Miggy, Avila and Peralta are all 5+ fWAR players. Only other team that can say the same is the BoSox.

Time for some of this Rockies: "One of the beautiful things about baseball is that every once in a while you come into a situation where you want to, and where you have to, reach down and prove something." Nolan Ryan

by dsmba on Sep 15, 2011 12:15 PM MDT up reply actions  

Meant to say BoSox are the only other team with three 5+ fWAR players

Time for some of this Rockies: "One of the beautiful things about baseball is that every once in a while you come into a situation where you want to, and where you have to, reach down and prove something." Nolan Ryan

by dsmba on Sep 15, 2011 12:16 PM MDT up reply actions  

http://www.fangraphs.com/winss.aspx?team=Tigers&pos=all&stats=pit&qual=0&type=8&season=2011&month=0&season1=2011

the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox

be happy, because 2012 is coming.

by papality on Sep 15, 2011 12:22 PM MDT up reply actions  

Okay so he is the best pitcher on his team sure - not really sure that is support for being an MVP

fWAR shows he isn’t even the most valuable pitcher in the AL as another pitcher has a 6.8 fWAR to his 6.7.

While I agree there is a significant gap between him and the next closest Tiger pitcher than isn’t an anomaly. Look at the Yanks or Indians starting pitching.

Time for some of this Rockies: "One of the beautiful things about baseball is that every once in a while you come into a situation where you want to, and where you have to, reach down and prove something." Nolan Ryan

by dsmba on Sep 15, 2011 1:44 PM MDT up reply actions  

without verlander, and now fister, the tigers rotation is absolute joke

that’s what i mean by carrying his team

the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox

be happy, because 2012 is coming.

by papality on Sep 15, 2011 1:53 PM MDT up reply actions  

Scherzer and Porcello are good pitchers and very far from a joke

I would say the Tigers have a quality rotation, better than the Red Sox or Yankees easily.

Time for some of this Rockies: "One of the beautiful things about baseball is that every once in a while you come into a situation where you want to, and where you have to, reach down and prove something." Nolan Ryan

by dsmba on Sep 15, 2011 1:58 PM MDT up reply actions  

Red Sox current rotation is pretty bad.

John Lackey is a joke! What happened to Andrew Miller? Wasn’t he supposed to be a No. 1 Ace?

"My eyes! The goggles do nothing!" - Rainier Wolfcastle

by BittenAnkles on Sep 15, 2011 3:36 PM MDT up reply actions  

yeah, given beckett's health

all they have is lester right now, and even then, he’s been bad recently

the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox

be happy, because 2012 is coming.

by papality on Sep 15, 2011 4:05 PM MDT up reply actions  

also 1/4 of the teams wins have come when verlander starts

that pretty much defines “carrying”

the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox

be happy, because 2012 is coming.

by papality on Sep 15, 2011 12:24 PM MDT up reply actions  

That stat can mean sooooo many things

I think there are many pitchers out there that can say something similar. What about Kershaw who has 25% of the Dodgers wins. Should he be a NL MVP candidate? And there are many many others who have 20% of their team’s wins.

Time for some of this Rockies: "One of the beautiful things about baseball is that every once in a while you come into a situation where you want to, and where you have to, reach down and prove something." Nolan Ryan

by dsmba on Sep 15, 2011 1:50 PM MDT up reply actions  

sure, kershaw should absolutely be an MPV candidate

i think pitchers don’t get near enough support for MVP

the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox

be happy, because 2012 is coming.

by papality on Sep 15, 2011 1:54 PM MDT up reply actions  

he should be also an MVP candidate, not just MPV

the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox

be happy, because 2012 is coming.

by papality on Sep 15, 2011 1:54 PM MDT up reply actions  

Agree to disagree

I just don’t like Pitchers as MVPs

Time for some of this Rockies: "One of the beautiful things about baseball is that every once in a while you come into a situation where you want to, and where you have to, reach down and prove something." Nolan Ryan

by dsmba on Sep 15, 2011 2:00 PM MDT up reply actions  

9.4 WAR vs 6.7 WAR

hmmmm….

the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox

be happy, because 2012 is coming.

by papality on Sep 15, 2011 1:34 PM MDT up reply actions  

You're right. Greinke was much better than Verlander.

Much.

The writer formerly known as Jabberwocky
READ and LEARN about the business of baseball at Purple Row Academy
Eschew Obfuscation!

by Jeff Aberle on Sep 15, 2011 8:00 PM MDT up reply actions  

when did you move to boston?

how can you forget pedro in 99 and 2000

by purplesocks on Sep 15, 2011 12:55 PM MDT up reply actions  

Oh I remember those years well

’99 was close, but I still think Verlander this year was better. The numbers are all in the ballpark except SO/BB, which Pedro killed that year, but Verlander has better WHIP and AVG against, and will pitch many more innings. Call it a wash, but still, he deserves the MVP.

by BostonTransplant on Sep 15, 2011 1:17 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

'99 Pedro is probably the greatest single season for a pitcher in baseball history.

Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings

by Muzia on Sep 15, 2011 3:50 PM MDT up reply actions  

I'm confused with this,

because his 2000 season was better than his ’99 season. Though I would take issue with both as the best in history. Definitely Top 5.

by DumbAndNerdy on Sep 15, 2011 4:11 PM MDT up reply actions  

Are you crazy?

’99 Pedro: 213 1/3 IP, 160 H, 37 BB, 313 K, 2.07 ERA, 1.39(!) FIP, 243 ERA+
’00 Pedro: 217 IP, 128 H, 32 BB, 284 K, 1.74 ERA, 2.17 FIP, 291 ERA+
’11 Verlander: 236 IP, 163 H, 53 BB. 238 K, 2.36 ERA, 2.93 FIP, 170 ERA+

Not. Even. Close.

Jason Giambi for player-manager in 2012!
How the world will end in 2012: George of the Roses builds a Machine that Pommels everyone with La Violencia during Whiteouts.

by free7694 on Sep 15, 2011 4:31 PM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

looking at pedro's stats makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside

the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox

be happy, because 2012 is coming.

by papality on Sep 15, 2011 4:59 PM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

I cannot, in good conscience

Give the MVP to a player that sat and watched more than 3/4 of his team’s games.

Jason Giambi for player-manager in 2012!
How the world will end in 2012: George of the Roses builds a Machine that Pommels everyone with La Violencia during Whiteouts.

by free7694 on Sep 15, 2011 1:00 PM MDT up reply actions  

Yeah, he has more impact than simply the innings/games he pitches.

I’m of the mind that starting pitchers can win the MVP, but only in extraordinary circumstances. A starter needs to be having an absolutely amazing year (and thus have a huge impact on his team), and there needs to not be any clear choices among position players. This confluence of events is going to happen very rarely.

by holly96 on Sep 15, 2011 2:08 PM MDT up reply actions  

I agree with this.

I’m just saying that the “sat and watched” description is rather vacuous. As I’ve mentioned, I don’t see it happening for Verlander. I think he has had an amazing year though, and his impact on his team has been unmatched since maybe Johnson in 1995.

by DumbAndNerdy on Sep 15, 2011 2:25 PM MDT up reply actions  

Johnson was sixth in MVP voting that year,

though his numbers weren’t nearly as good as Verlander’s are.

by DumbAndNerdy on Sep 15, 2011 2:27 PM MDT up reply actions  

This has me confused (as I guess most of this Verlander talk has)

what exactly are you basing this on (numbers weren’t as good)?

I guess what I am trying to ask is what about Verlander (other than the obvious wins) is so great about Verlander this year.

Time for some of this Rockies: "One of the beautiful things about baseball is that every once in a while you come into a situation where you want to, and where you have to, reach down and prove something." Nolan Ryan

by dsmba on Sep 15, 2011 2:52 PM MDT up reply actions  

Here is what I base it on:

1) Go to Baseball Reference.
2) Look at Randy Johnson’s 1995 numbers.
3) Look at Justin Verlander’s 2011 numbers.
4) Compare.

They’re pretty close, but some of Verlander’s peripherals are stronger and his defense isn’t quite as good, not that he nor Johnson rely too much on defense.

by DumbAndNerdy on Sep 15, 2011 3:04 PM MDT up reply actions  

So you are comparing 1995 to 2011

how are you adjusting for the fact the runs scored per game in 2011 is 4.44 versus 5.06 in 1995? Seems to me if Randy Johnson put up about the same numbers his numbers would be better not

weren’t nearly as good as Verlander’s
as you state above.

Time for some of this Rockies: "One of the beautiful things about baseball is that every once in a while you come into a situation where you want to, and where you have to, reach down and prove something." Nolan Ryan

by dsmba on Sep 15, 2011 3:49 PM MDT up reply actions  

I'm confused as to why runs per game for the majors for the entire season

has any bearing on this. Does this mean that Bob Gibson was a chump? Most of the peripherals don’t even use runs as a basis since runs have been shown to be very misleading.

I would have accepted something like:

Verlander’s FIP is also almost a point above Johnson’s in 1995 too.

OR

Johnson’s ERA+ was 20 points above Verlander’s.

I really don’t have a rebuttal for the fact that more runs were scored in 1995, thus Verlander must be worse. There is one especially good reason and another, more infamous yet somewhat unproven, reason why runs were higher in 1995. I’m not sure how either of those affects this argument.

by DumbAndNerdy on Sep 15, 2011 4:06 PM MDT up reply actions  

Was going off the fact 1995 was a more offensive season and thus similar numbers in more of a pitching season one would tend to think the offensive season pitcher was better.... but fine

1995 Johnson FIP .208
2011 Verlander FIP .293

better?

Time for some of this Rockies: "One of the beautiful things about baseball is that every once in a while you come into a situation where you want to, and where you have to, reach down and prove something." Nolan Ryan

by dsmba on Sep 15, 2011 4:52 PM MDT up reply actions  

FIP is probably better here.

It’s hard with the stats like ERA+ which factor in league average. When comparing year-to-year, you are also comparing the average competence of pitchers that year versus the average competence of pitchers in the other year which may have less bearing on how individuals did.

It’s like this:

If a runner runs a 9.8 100m and the rest of the runners in the race run an average 10.0, he doesn’t run any slower than another runner who runs 9.8 while the average of the the runners in the race is 9.9.

This would be after wind-adjustment etc. This is what makes it difficult to determine just using certain stats.

by DumbAndNerdy on Sep 15, 2011 5:40 PM MDT up reply actions  

Importance isn't about straight individual pitching numbers.

Those are a start, but I think you have to look at the effect on the team as a whole. I think you might have an argument for Pedro in 2000, but the Red Sox also missed the playoffs winning only 85 games in 2000.

by DumbAndNerdy on Sep 15, 2011 3:37 PM MDT up reply actions  

verlander won't get to 26, not enough starts remaining

25 is possible though

the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox

be happy, because 2012 is coming.

by papality on Sep 15, 2011 12:09 PM MDT up reply actions  

He only starts 2 of the final 13?

if so then 25 is still a prety magic number in a lot of books

~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~

by TomCat009 on Sep 15, 2011 12:13 PM MDT up reply actions  

If this happens (extremely doubtful IMO)

Bautista wins it going away. I don’t get the Verlander love as I don’t see him being that far above the other pitchers (at least from a fangraphs perspective {my WAR of choice}).

Time for some of this Rockies: "One of the beautiful things about baseball is that every once in a while you come into a situation where you want to, and where you have to, reach down and prove something." Nolan Ryan

by dsmba on Sep 15, 2011 12:06 PM MDT up reply actions  

Hey buddy listen, I'm a baseball stat nerd. That means I solve problems.

Not problems like: “What is beauty” because that falls under the purview of your conundrums of philosophy. I solve practical problems.

Like for instance: “How do you keep another lucky team that’s not Rockies from running away with division next year?”

The answer: “Get a bat.”

And if that don’t work, get more bat.

This isn’t difficult.

FFFFFFFFFFF.

/it is a new beginning, right?

by The Lodo Magic Man on Sep 15, 2011 12:04 PM MDT via mobile reply actions  

I live in the Springs and would hate to see the Sky Sox move.

I grew up spending my afternoons at the park and I still go every Friday evening to watch fireworks. If the Sky Sox have to move, move them to Fort Collins. The will get the support they need and the right elevation to evaluate players.

…but still, if the Sky Sox move, a part of me will die.

Colorado College Hockey, Colorado Avalanche, Colorado Rockies fan to the death.
"If you can't accept losing, You can't win." -Vince Lombardi

by Lost Winter on Sep 15, 2011 12:08 PM MDT reply actions  

I would rather see them try a humidor in the Springs

but wherever they go, they still have to deal with the conditions in the rest of the PCL. They aren’t dealing with just a CS problem…

We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!

In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener

by Junction Rox on Sep 15, 2011 12:21 PM MDT up reply actions  

yah, I'd rather see them make the changes necessary to the Springs

A humidor would help a lot. I know the community loves the team and it provides a great chance for some of us that can’t make it to Denver to see the big guys. I love it.


In all things, it is better to hope than despair.

by butterfly on Sep 15, 2011 2:56 PM MDT up reply actions  

Lineup per Rizzo and Renck....

WHOOOAAAAAAAA

#

Rockies vs. #SFGiants 9/15 6:40pm: Fowler8, Ellis4, Gonzalez9, Smith7, Wigginton5, Pacheco3, Iannetta2, Field6, Chacin1.

CDI hitting 7th…

/thud

"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Sep 15, 2011 4:21 PM MDT reply actions  

I'm just surprised that Tracy realized that. Sorry but

his lineup constructions have at times left me puzzled.

"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Sep 15, 2011 4:29 PM MDT up reply actions  

I'm puzzled at times too.

But I don’t think he’s quite is rigid as he sometimes gets accused of being.

by holly96 on Sep 15, 2011 4:36 PM MDT up reply actions  

CDI in 8th seemed pretty rigid

"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Sep 15, 2011 4:39 PM MDT up reply actions  

Yeah, but he's moved around at times. Not a lot, but it's not like it never happened.

And lineup case with some rookies seems to me like a time when Tracy would have no problem moving him.

I guess generally, when you have different guys in the lineup all the time (especially these days with injuries to some of the normal mainstays), I’m generally not going to be surprised by people moving up or down a slot or two, even with Tracy being the guy filling it out.

by holly96 on Sep 15, 2011 4:44 PM MDT up reply actions  

I'm just glad to see Iannetta :)


In all things, it is better to hope than despair.

by butterfly on Sep 15, 2011 4:30 PM MDT up reply actions  

This

"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Sep 15, 2011 4:33 PM MDT up reply actions  

/head aspolde

/divide by zero

This year sucks.

by prettyinpurple on Sep 15, 2011 4:47 PM MDT up reply actions  

Oooh....Rays v Boston tonight on MLBN

Go RAYS!!!!

"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Sep 15, 2011 5:37 PM MDT reply actions  

Booo Rays!

Go Red Sox! Best Team Ever!

by DumbAndNerdy on Sep 15, 2011 5:43 PM MDT up reply actions  

WOO RAYS!

"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Sep 15, 2011 6:18 PM MDT up reply actions  

IAWTC

We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!

In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener

by Junction Rox on Sep 15, 2011 5:46 PM MDT up reply actions  

I dislike the Red Sox very much!! GO RAYS!!!!


In all things, it is better to hope than despair.

by butterfly on Sep 15, 2011 6:05 PM MDT up reply actions  

Okay, I'm late to the party here...

But regarding the location of the AAA team…what about Aurora (with a humidor)?

It would fit with the growing trend: The Mariners have long had their AAA team in Tacoma, the Braves moved theirs to Gwinnett County, and the Padres will put theirs in north SD county once a new stadium is complete.

Where else can you simulate conditions in LoDo so closely? Nowhere.

Paleface Destro: The Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
There are those who call me..."Skip".
I snark because I care.

by Paleface Destro on Sep 15, 2011 6:29 PM MDT reply actions  

Well, of course he did

…because 2011, and because Panda

Paleface Destro: The Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
There are those who call me..."Skip".
I snark because I care.

by Paleface Destro on Sep 15, 2011 6:45 PM MDT reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the SB Nation blog about the Colorado Rockies, established 28 April 2005.

Community Guidelines
RockiesRoster.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Small
A Memorial Day tribute to Purple Row

Recent FanPosts

Rockieshat1_small
JUCO Tournament 2012: Colorado Hosts Its 53rd World Series
Kheditorshot_small
Sitting down with Tulsa Drillers co-closer Coty Woods
2rr10yf_small
Death By Underachievement
N63804317_31527791_2216_small
The Cause of Our Hitting Woes
Kheditorshot_small
Sitting down with Tulsa Drillers first baseman Kiel Roling
Small
This is how the Rockies should look like
Img_1229_small
PRMLB May Thread
Goatee
Purple Row Pick 6
Small
xBABIP part 2

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Yahoo_full_count

Colorado Sports Blogs

Mile High Report (Denver Broncos)
Mile High Hockey (Colorado Avalanche)
Denver Stiffs (Denver Nuggets)
Burgundy Wave (Colorado Rapids)
The Ralphie Report (CU Buffaloes)
SB Nation Denver

Top 30 PuRPs

  1. Drew Pomeranz, LHP - AAA
  2. Nolan Arenado, 3B - AA
  3. Wilin Rosario, C - MLB
  4. Chad Bettis, RHP - AA DL
  5. Tyler Matzek, A (Adv)
  6. Alex White, MLB
  7. Kyle Parker, OF - A (Adv)
  8. Tim Wheeler, OF - AAA DL
  9. Josh Rutledge, SS - AA
  10. Charlie Blackmon, OF - AAA DL
  11. Rosell Herrera, SS/3B - A
  12. Trevor Story, SS/3B - A
  13. Edwar Cabrera, LHP - AA
  14. Tyler Anderson, LHP - A
  15. Rafael Ortega, OF - A (Adv)
  16. Peter Tago, RHP, unassigned
  17. Christian Friedrich, LHP - MLB
  18. Joe Gardner, RHP - AA
  19. Corey Dickerson, OF - A (Adv)
  20. Thomas Field, 2B - AAA
  21. Will Swanner, C - A
  22. Kent Matthes, OF - AA
  23. Albert Campos, RHP - released (4/19/12)
  24. Jordan Pacheco, C/UT - MLB
  25. Cristhian Adames, SS - A (Adv)
  26. Ben Paulsen, 1B - AA
  27. Josh Slaats, RHP - A (Adv)
  28. David Kandilas, CF - A
  29. Jayson Aquino, LHP - unassigned
  30. Hector Gomez, SS - DL
HM:
Edgmer Escalona, RHP - MLB
Dillon Thomas, OF - unassigned
Sam Mende, IF - A
Mike Zuanich, 1B - AA
Dan Houston, RHP - AA

updated 10/25/2011.


Managers

Rox_girl_small Rox Girl

35l7yvb_small Andrew Martin

Staff

Jeff_aberle_small Jeff Aberle

No_bunting_small Bryan Kilpatrick

Avatar2_small Andrew T. Fisher

Wittgenstein_small Greg Stanwood

Special Assistants to the GM

Rockies_lost_americana_small holly96

2rr10yf_small RhodeIslandRoxfan

Pic2_small CBake33

Image_small Rafael Rojas Cremonesi