Saturday Rockpile: If 2011 Ever Ends, What Does the Future Hold?
by Bryan Kilpatrick on Sep 24, 2011 8:50 AM MDT
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This season has become officially too much to handle. Not only are the Rockies in the process of mailing it in for the second consecutive September (with last night's loss being their ninth straight), but division rivals from the Diamondbacks (who clinched the NL West last night) to the Dodgers (whose centerfielder has a very real shot at winning the triple crown) are stealing the headlines.
The D-Backs situation, in particular, really hit close to home. As I watched their celebration last night, I was overcome with all of the memories from when the Rockies clinched a playoff spot on their home field just two short years ago. Simply put, that was one of the best sports-related days that I can remember. I swear I shared the exact same feelings that the guys had while popping bottles and pumping jams such as "Boom Boom Pow" and "All the Above" on a constant loop in the clubhouse. The overwhelming feeling was not only that all of the perseverance paid off, but also that all of the pieces were in place to do this over and over again for several years to come. Now, two straight awful end-of-seasons later, I don't know what to feel.
Oh well, I don't get paid to write about my feelings, so here are some links:
MLB: Colorado Rockies' 2011 fate and 2012 prospects - ESPN (Insider Only)
As part of ESPN's "Kiss 'Em Goodbye" series, Baseball Prospectus teamed up with the four-letter network and detailed what went wrong with the Rockies in 2011, plus what they can expect next season. It's an insider article, but luckily for you guys I'm a subscriber.
The gist is that BP believes the Rox still have a great young core and a solid up-the-middle nucleus (led by Troy Tulowitzki, Chris Iannetta, and a rejuvenated Dexter Fowler). However, they're worried about the gigantic regression of Colorado's run prevention scheme, citing decreased groundball and strikeout rates, increased home run rates, and below-average defense (in terms of defensive efficiency). It's worth noting that they're not worried about Alex White's alarming amount of home runs allowed, but they believe he'll be better served starting 2012 in the minor leagues.
Bowden thinks the Rockies need to acquire a decent starter, and throws Wandy Rodriguez's name out there as one who can stabilize the rotation. He goes as far as to say that if they do get Rodriguez, they could make a run at the division title. Szymborski sees the Rockies' worst-case scenario as basically a repeat of this year. Best-case? They'll go 90-72.
Finally, here's an excerpt about the Rockies' organizational future, from Kevin Goldstein:
While the Rockies disappointed at the big league level in 2011, there was plenty of good news down on the farm. With a combination of plus power and arm strength, Wilin Rosario returned from knee surgery to stake his claim as the catcher of the future, while his Texas League teammate, outfielder Tim Wheeler, exploded with 33 home runs and 21 stolen bases while hitting .287/.365/.535. The most remarkable story, however, was 2009 first-round pick Tyler Matzek, who was looking like a bust with a 9.82 ERA after 10 starts for High Class A Modesto before leaving the organization to work with his high school coach and rediscover his mechanics. He returned with the kind of velocity not seen since his prep days, and while the command still needs work, at least his ceiling is back. Despite an ugly 2011, the Rockies remain young and talented, and they should play a role in the National League West for years to come.
That kind of makes me feel good, but I'm more skeptical than ever about believing in the Rockies' organizational strategy.
More after the jump...
Rockies' Iannetta has inside track as starting catcher in 2012 - The Denver Post
Very good stuff on Chris Iannetta from Troy Renck, who seems to have his own stance in the catcher wars.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Sep 24, 2011 9:37 AM MDT up reply actions
As a resident Zonie
I am tired of the Snakes out playing us. Their FO and coaches seem to be much better at putting together winning teams. And the fact that we are “mailing it in”, again, tells me there is little pride in this team. I think Tracy and DOD need to be held accountable for another underperforming season.
So is the QB answer really: D) None of the above?
o'dowd was supposed to forsee DLR's elbow blowing out?
or that jose lopez would really and truly be done as an effective major league hitter, so badly that coors field couldn’t help him?
or that ian stewart would set new standards of suck?
Not really sure you can say that…
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
tracy holds a certain mystique with the fanbase for 2009
don’t get me wrong, i want him on the next train out of town as much as anyone and more than most, but just look at the DP polls about what to do this offseason: most view O’dowd as a much bigger culprit than tracy, when in fact the opposite is the truth
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
Actually, yeah
Well, not JDLR’s elbow. But Lopez? Puh-leeze. Everyone in baseball except O’Dowd (and some on this site who will remain namless) saw that coming. And Stewart has always had one of the most god-awful swings in baseball, with holes all over the place and just aching to be abused by off-speed pitches. True, it would have been hard to imagine a fall this bad (which is almost of historical proportions) but a management team with clear eyes would have not relied on those two.
It’s undeniable that most of our year has been the result of bad luck and unforseeable downturns (let’s say, 70%), but a big chunk was very much avoidable, if we’d been able to evaluate players well and gone out and gotten (likely via trade) some better bets.
by BostonTransplant on Sep 24, 2011 10:49 AM MDT up reply actions
End of season slides a definite concern...
I agree that the Rox had some bad juju this year, but I also think that as evidenced by the end of season shenanigans this year and last, this team has not yet built a tradition of excellence. Look at what San Diego did two years ago, playing their tails off after a horrible start, and finishing the month of September with 20+ wins, even though they were out of it. Guess what? The next year they were a surprise contender, building on the momentum from the Sept. prior. Pride is right, or lack thereof…and unfortunately, you’ve got to look to the team leaders and Jim Tracy on this point. 15 straight losses to finish this season will be a complete embarrassment, and is entirely unacceptable. I don’t care who they’re running out there…this is a pitiful squad, no heart.
by singlikebono on Sep 24, 2011 10:55 AM MDT up reply actions
I don't view Lopez and Stewart as horrendous mistakes
I see the lack of viable backup plans for Stewart and, especially, Lopez as horrendous mistakes. It was bad enough not having anybody but Wiggy, or possibly Lopez, to take over if the always inconsistent Stewart became truly ineffective (not saying anybody should have foreseen the horror show Stewie’s 2011 became, but there have always been times he’s simply not an effective MLB starter), but to have nothing but Herrera and, if forced, Nelson to take over if Lopez didn’t make the rebound it was possible, but never guaranteed, he would make.
What I will fault DO’D (who I do not think is the biggest problem this organization has) for is leaving too much to chance. At some point your players have to make plays, but you’ve got to have a plan B if they don’t…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Sep 24, 2011 11:00 AM MDT up reply actions
No one believed Stewart needed a plan B
You can’t blame DOD for filling a hole that wasn’t there. Just like he didn’t get another SP, because there wasn’t a hole in the rotation. He went out and got some bullpen help, a utility/bench guy, and gambled on Lopez to fill the 2b hole.
I would have liked to have seen one
Maybe not to take over all season, but Ian has never been consistent, and having somebody that could take over for a period while he got things together would have been a good idea even if he had repeated his 2009 or 2010 performance.
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Sep 24, 2011 11:30 AM MDT up reply actions
That was supposed to be Wigginton's role.
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 11:40 AM MDT up reply actions
And, let me tell you, he's been gangbusters.
Altar Boy in the Church of Santo Ubaldo
"...buffalo chicken is a fine anti-depressant, after all." -UZ
"... One order of buffalo wings, please..." -Yokel, after July 30, 2011
heh
He did alright for a spell as a starter, but that’s all we were supposed to need him for as a starter.
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 11:45 AM MDT up reply actions
not to mention all those puppies he peed on.
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
oh totally
eating a whopper in front of an orphan
stuff like that
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 11:49 AM MDT up reply actions
You're right
easy to forget since he ended up starting, but he was supposed to do exactly what I"m talking about.
Point: O’Dpwd, assist: Martin.
I’ll stand by my point re: J-Lo…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Sep 24, 2011 11:48 AM MDT up reply actions
You could make a case about Lopez that could go in any direction given his performance thus far with the Marlins
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 11:49 AM MDT up reply actions
Which is why plan B needed to be something better than Herrera
J-Lo was probably always a candidate to give us virtually any outcome from good to horrible…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Sep 24, 2011 11:51 AM MDT up reply actions
with holes all over the place and just aching to be abused by off-speed pitches
You mean like Dex did? Dex shows that a lightbulb can get turned on at any moment, and the player can get productive. No one foresaw that Stewart was going to get hurt and lose ST and never get going at all…
Having trouble in the season is one thing, but Stewart or Lopez didn’t QUIT like the rest of these guys have.
This season has become an embarrassment for fans of baseball in this town, and its not the players that aren’t here that we should be faulting. Putting EY2 in the lineup every day when it is obvious he can’t play defense at a MLB level, and penciling in Alfonzo on the basis that he hit a GS, is something that needs to be addressed. IMO, Tracy needs to take a look at what he’s been doing and either correct it, or look for another team to get hired.
The oxen are slow, but the earth is patient.
by rockieprogress on Sep 24, 2011 11:17 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
I can rec this
It’s technically true that Stewart and Lopez didn’t quit, but could be mainly because they aren’t here anymore. There’s something weird about the demeanor of this team, somehow both too laid back and too stressed out at the same time (well, maybe it’s different guys … most of them are too laid back, but Tulo is too stressed out, which affects everyone because he’s Tulo). Mostly, though, this is the lowest baseball IQ ML team I’ve ever seen. And it is embarrassing, yes.
by BostonTransplant on Sep 24, 2011 1:35 PM MDT up reply actions
There's this odd meme around here....
That one or two things (usually it’s DLR and Stewie) caused this season to go south.
Truth is, this was pretty much a team effort at total suckage. If DLR stayed healthy, and Stewart went, say 20/85/.270 I’m still pretty sure this team is nowhere near the playoff race. Fundamentals sucked, situational hitting sucked, starters didn’t go deep enough, etc. etc. etc. This wasn’t a good team hampered by a few key injuries. This was a team that earned their near cellar position by being a crappy, all-around.
No one, from Tracy, to O’Dowd, to scouting, to ownership, to just about every player, should be above having a finger pointed at them.
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
use external hosting, please
(great choice in picture, though)
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 12:56 PM MDT up reply actions
is that not external?
(don’t fully understand what that entails…)
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
find a site like
imgur.com
imageshack.us
tinypic.com
upload the image to there and THEN post it on PR.
Otherwise we’re costing that site bandwidth to display the picture.
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 1:02 PM MDT up reply actions
I'm partial to Imgur purely because of the number of addons I've found for it
also the funny galleries
also rage comics
also I’m a gigantic nerd
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 1:09 PM MDT up reply actions
ah
gotcha
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
it's really fast and easy when you get the hang of it.
Keep posting pictures, it’s fun.
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 1:09 PM MDT up reply actions
I only have 10 fingers
do I have to take my shoes off?
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 12:56 PM MDT up reply actions
the front office isn't worries me so much
It is not like the FO didn’t try this past off season to improve on what we all knew were holes in the team. They brought in additions to make it better that very few on here argued adamently against.
What worries me is that this team, as a whole, has lost their pride in themselves over the past month and a half. There is no team mate accountability in that clubhouse right now, none.
I would be happier right now if they blew up the entire roster than try to preach why you should pride in what you do. Beyond that Tulo-Cargo-Fowler core, there is no excitement, no drive and no desire to play championship level baseball.
Did the front office even give lip service to improving the rotation?
No. They put their eggs squarely in the Cookie-will-rebound-and-save-the-day basket, like they usually do. There was also no real effort to bring in a RH impact bat, despite much talk about doing so ever since Holliday left. Putting two destined-to-fail experiments in the bullpen to start the year wasn’t so bright either.
I am more than ready for Tracy to go, but I am amazed at the free pass that so many here grant to O’Dowd. Apparently he’s just a poor helpless soul saddled with an insufficient payroll and Goober Pyle for a manager. None of this is on him, at all.
by Northsider1964 on Sep 24, 2011 11:14 AM MDT up reply actions
Honestly, not that I just want to give DOD a free pass
but I do like the guy and I feel like a lot of the criticism he’s been getting lately are driven moreso by hindsight bias and just a general frustration with our poor performance and the flux of the roster this season.
Technically, Cook had shown some promise at the end of 2010 and seemed like a solid rebound candidate. Plus, we were only expecting him to be a #4 or #5 starter depending on how you viewed Hammel. It sucks that things unfolded the way they did but I really can’t blame them for going this route.
Personally, while I’m still a supporter of DOD, that could all change this offseason. THIS offseason; the next few months will be the best time to evaluate DOD’s moves, his shrewdness, his capacity to learn & adjust, and his ability to assemble a winning team. For a long time, he didn’t have a fringe-contender team, and now for the first time he’s really witnessed the idea that sticking with several somewhat raw, homegrown players is too unreliable to vault the team into the upper echelon.
That being said, from what little I’ve heard about our offseason plans, I’m not too optimistic. Things like keeping Tracy and targeting Michael Cuddyer don’t really inspire confidence. That being said, this could all just be some public posturing so I’m not putting too much stock into it…
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
I'm not really looking for O'Dowd to get sacked
But the idea that a different manager would have made this anything more than a .500 team is pure fantasy, in my opinion. If people want to get rid of Tracy, fine. But I keep going back to the fact that the Rockies got remarkably historic years from its top three players in 2010 and still only won 83 games. So the GM, in his infinite wisdom, decided to keep all the clubhouse favorites and shore up the roster with Jose Lopez, Ty Wigginton and Matt Lindstrom while declaring his team the most talented in the division. Believe me, I said “huh?” to that plan long before the season went south.
by Northsider1964 on Sep 24, 2011 11:35 AM MDT up reply actions
Hey, Lindstrom was a great pickup
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 11:41 AM MDT up reply actions
He's been okay
So was Jose Morales, for that matter, for what he was asked to do. But these are not acquisitions that pull a mediocre team over the top. And that is exactly what the 2010 Rockies were, from start to finish – a mediocre team – despite monster years from three players. Failure to recognize that is partly why 2011 became a disaster.
by Northsider1964 on Sep 24, 2011 11:46 AM MDT up reply actions
you're right
but don’t conflate shrewd moves that were designed to bolster the team with flops in other areas where we needed more.
He deserves some credit for those moves as they were never designed to ‘fix’ the team…
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
by Resolution on Sep 24, 2011 11:49 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
roughly my thoughts.
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 11:50 AM MDT up reply actions
I think Tracy sucks big time
But honestly, if you find a manager that could make this team a .500 team, then that’s some friggin’ incredible managing.
But yea, the manager is a small part of the problem. The team has been teetering on the cusp of being legitimately good for a while now. Like I said, this is the first time where I think we’ve seen that hoping for the majority of our raw/potentially solid players to take a major leap forward (Iannetta, Fowler, Stewart, EY2, Nelson, Herrera, Chacin, Rogers, maybe Morales too), while a rational approach just leaves way too much risk and downside variability present. We’ve basically seen that given a full season of at-bats, Fowler and Iannetta can be around 4 WAR players and that Chacin is pretty good but still developing, but everyone else is still totally up in the air.
also, independently of that, acquiring reclamation guys like Paulino and Lopez, and hoping for rebounds/growth from guys like Hammel, Cook, Helton, are not necessarily poor decisions in a vacuum, but coupled with our reliance on young guys breaking through just leaves way, way, way, too much uncertainty on the roster.
I guess my overall point would be that from what I’ve heard and read, it seems DOD has acknowledged these things to varying degrees and it will be pretty interesting to see how he consolidates potential roster candidates and attempts to minimize all of the risk on this team.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
Managers (and coaching staffs) can have incredible impacts
Not on the game-management side, but on the team demeanor/accountability/confidence side. Get a little edge to us.
by BostonTransplant on Sep 24, 2011 1:41 PM MDT up reply actions
Jimenez
de la Rosa
Chacin
Hammel
Cook/Rogers/Paulino
This rotation looked to be very strong 1-3, an above average #4 based on 2010 and at least 3 decent candidates for the #5 role. Yeah, it would have been great to have even more guys as it turned out, but there was no reason to think the rotation was a priority last offseason…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Sep 24, 2011 11:35 AM MDT up reply actions
I guess that was some other bullpen
Whose tank was on “E” and tires were completely bald by the middle of August last year. That might have provided a hint that the rotation needed some actual help. But we addressed that problem in very crafty fashion, by getting Manny del Carmen and Octovio Dotel.
Call it hindsight all day long if you want. Not everybody looked at the list above and thought the Rockies were in solid shape.
by Northsider1964 on Sep 24, 2011 11:42 AM MDT up reply actions
What did you think we should have done?
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Sep 24, 2011 11:50 AM MDT up reply actions
Probably give Cookie his gold watch and sent him on his way.
Altar Boy in the Church of Santo Ubaldo
"...buffalo chicken is a fine anti-depressant, after all." -UZ
"... One order of buffalo wings, please..." -Yokel, after July 30, 2011
Or let him actually compete for a spot in the rotation
With someone not named Esmil Rogers.
But I’m sure some would consider that a treasonous way to treat a franchise icon.
by Northsider1964 on Sep 24, 2011 11:57 AM MDT up reply actions
But I’m sure some would consider that a treasonous way to treat a franchise icon.
yeah, just treat your franchise icons like dirt, that’s the way to attract guys via trade and FA
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
I'm not sure how paying someone
$29 million over the past three years for 380 innings of production qualifies as treating them like dirt. Sign me up for some of that wretched abuse.
by Northsider1964 on Sep 24, 2011 12:51 PM MDT up reply actions
where did anyone mention his contract?
Or let him actually compete for a spot in the rotation
With someone not named Esmil Rogers.
But I’m sure some would consider that a treasonous way to treat a franchise icon.
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
Ok then, I fail to see how asking Cook to compete
for a spot in the rotation is treating him like dirt, regardless of what he’s being paid.
by Northsider1964 on Sep 24, 2011 1:02 PM MDT up reply actions
Cook's an interesting character
been around forever, not actually that good. Hard to know whether to treat him like a Franchise Staple or just another Veteran Presence.
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 1:03 PM MDT up reply actions
Nice guy, hard worker
I’m really not a Cook hater, and I don’t have any desire to shovel dirt on him. But I’m amazed at the number of people who will give you a dissertation on how meaningless pitching wins are, and who have total disdain for “compilers.” But mention that you are fed up with Aaron Cook, and you get, “But he’s our franchise leader in wins!”
by Northsider1964 on Sep 24, 2011 1:25 PM MDT up reply actions
I'm with you here, rest assured
He’s just the longest tenured pitcher the Rockies have had, and it’s a really sore spot how far he’s fallen.
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 1:32 PM MDT up reply actions
oh im sorry
i misread your post…
/hides
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
That's completely irrelevant
In fact, players these days care more about playing for a winning franchise than one that always gives even obviously failing players one more (and then one more) chance. Definitely NOT how to build a winning team, although you will end up with a team of nice guys who are sad to leave here.
by BostonTransplant on Sep 24, 2011 1:45 PM MDT up reply actions
yeah as is just above this:
oh im sorry
i misread your post…
so just disregard that whole thing
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
There's a difference
between saying “compete with somebody not named Esmil Rogers” and saying “bring in Zack Greinke”…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Sep 24, 2011 12:14 PM MDT up reply actions
technically
the former is something 29 teams attempted in 2011 while the latter is something one team attempted in 2011.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
I think we should have looked very hard at a trade for a starting pitcher
In other words, do at least half of what the Brewers did to improve their team. O’Dowd not only didn’t do that, he never even seemed to consider it.
by Northsider1964 on Sep 24, 2011 11:53 AM MDT up reply actions
Who?
You wanted to package a bunch of top prospects to go get Greinke when the 1-3 spots in the rotation looked very solid to all but the most prescient among us?
That was never going to happen. And honestly, it shouldn’t have.
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Sep 24, 2011 11:55 AM MDT up reply actions
I disagree
Prospects are prospects, and are easy to replace with a decent draft or two, some international scouting, and a couple reverse trades (vets for someone else’s prospects). It would have been a superb move this last off-season — recognizing hindsight is 20/20 — to move say Rosario, Friedrich, and Pacheco for Greinke or Marcum (which is roughly what the Brewers gave up). Watch how fast the Brewers improve their minor league system. Within a couple years they’ll be fine. And meanwhile, if they don’t compete for a division title every year until then, it will be because of losing Fielder, which is something else entirely, not the emptying of their system.
by BostonTransplant on Sep 24, 2011 1:50 PM MDT up reply actions
On the flip side
he signed Tulo and CarGo to deals that I think are fantastic and got JDLR on an awesome contract that will look shitty now because he got injured. The only reason Milwaukee went balls to the wall was because their hand was forced by Fielder’s impending free agency…
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
I think the injury to DLR makes the contract look even smarter, actually
because now we are essentially guaranteed to have him pitch for another three years
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
yea, you're probably right
cautiously optimistic hooray!
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
This seems like a convenient excuse
The Brewers went and got two front line pitchers, and lo and behold, they won their division and are heading to the post season. Although an argument could be made it’s the wrong season to do that, with how stinking good the Phillies are.
Keep or lose Prince, it was a great move. Fantastic. I see very little downside, and if Prince does leave they’ll have the money to sign someone else, perhaps next off season.
by BostonTransplant on Sep 24, 2011 1:55 PM MDT up reply actions
The downside is that they traded away all their MLB ready talent, including Lowrie — his bat may become as good as Prince’s in the next year or two.
They are a poor defensive team, and one without any reinforcements for the next few years.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Exactly.
I hated the Lawrie for Marcum trade, but the Greinke trade wasn’t costly.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Sep 24, 2011 2:02 PM MDT up reply actions
The problem, in my mind, is the concept of Sustainability
The Brewers just cashed in their stocks, bonds, sold the house, and headed to the races. The Rockies continued to drive their 2001 Honda Accord and buy Kroger brand.
In the next 5 years, the Brewers are very likely to fall apart, just based on players aging and stuff like that.
In the next 5 years, the Rockies are still going to be driving a 2001 Honda Accord and eating Kroger brand.
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 11:57 AM MDT up reply actions
seriously
they lost Odorizzi and Brett ’I’m the best player of all time’ Lawrie.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
desmond jennings will cut you
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
Yeah I bet the Brewers are having deep regrets this morning
But if you didn’t even want to do the Greinke half of what the Brewers did, do the Marcum half. You need innings for God’s sake – nearly 1500 of them per season. Innings inning, innings – and sorry but I was beating that drum long before Jorge blew his elbow.
And it’s not always about getting a top guy. The Rockies overpaid (in terms of talent) for Marquis out of desperation in 2009, and it turned out to be some of the best $ they ever spent. Why? Because he ate innings like a Wisconsin Badger fan at Country Buffet.
by Northsider1964 on Sep 24, 2011 12:03 PM MDT up reply actions
they gave up Luis Vizcaino for Marquis
I’m pretty sure we won that trade.
Aside from that quibble, yeah, we need innings in a bad way.
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 12:04 PM MDT up reply actions
But Marquis had a pretty high salary, if I recall correctly
that’s what I meant by “overpay.”
by Northsider1964 on Sep 24, 2011 12:06 PM MDT up reply actions
$9,875,000
but wasn’t about half of it paid by the cubs?
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
Ah.
I think Chicago ate a chunk of that deal.
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 12:07 PM MDT up reply actions
That's what they leave to do.
Eat chunks.
by DumbAndNerdy on Sep 24, 2011 12:10 PM MDT up reply actions
pwnt
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
That could be
I just remember that Marquis seemed to have a high salary relative to his talent level. But honestly, I gained a whole new appreciation for his value when the Rockies made it to September with a bullpen that wasn’t in tatters.
Marquis flamed out badly in September, obviously, but he was on the short list for MVP of that team for what he did in the first 4+ months.
by Northsider1964 on Sep 24, 2011 12:16 PM MDT up reply actions
He also loves the Wu-Tang clan
…maybe
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
Talk to me about deep regrets 3 years from now
you can’t judge what the Brewers did and the Rockies didn’t do based solely on one season…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Sep 24, 2011 12:15 PM MDT up reply actions
True, you can't deem the Brewers' moves brilliant
just because they worked out. But my point is you are hard-pressed to overpay when you are getting established starting pitching in return. I would have made both those moves in a heartbeat. Hell, those moves were not only worth the prospects, they were even worth having to take Yuniesky Betancourt. :)
by Northsider1964 on Sep 24, 2011 12:27 PM MDT up reply actions
But you can overpay
when you have greater issues than starting pitching, which are only going to be made worse by giving up the guys you have to give up to get that starting pitching.
To me, the biggest issue this team always faced going into this season was the lack of another impact bat in the middle of the lineup. Stewie had never shown the consistency to be handed that spot on a silver platter, Todd was coming off a terrible 2010 and was almost certain to never be a power threat again, and there were no other real options. Taking Dex and some other prospects off the roster just to push Chacin back to #4 in the rotation wasn’t going to help that…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Sep 24, 2011 12:31 PM MDT up reply actions
That's a very fair argument
And if O’Dowd had said he needed to stand pat on pitching because he needed to spend some serious resources on a legitimate impact bat, I could have lived with that. But of course he didn’t, which gets us back to the point about failing to recognize that the 2010 Rockies were a mediocre team.
by Northsider1964 on Sep 24, 2011 12:49 PM MDT up reply actions
I would agree with this,
but what moves should he have made?
by DumbAndNerdy on Sep 24, 2011 12:52 PM MDT up reply actions
don't forget the brewers also signed braun to a pointless extension and gutted their farm system
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
Like the Rockies signed Tulo to a pointless extension?
And didn’t gut their farm system and are posed to finish at 70-72 wins?
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 12:19 PM MDT up reply actions
crap, *poised
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 12:19 PM MDT up reply actions
typo renders post meaningless
/dance party
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
Nope, as noted above, I think this is wrong
The Brewers will rebuild their farm in a couple years tops, starting with the two draft picks they’ll get for losing Prince. I don’t think they’ll pay much of a price at all. If they regret anything, it would be including Lawrie, who seems like he’s better than anyone expected.
by BostonTransplant on Sep 24, 2011 1:57 PM MDT up reply actions
You can't just draft guys in the middle to late part of the round
and have them ready to go in a year or two.
They have nobody that can step in and improve their roster for several years now.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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Matt 'I'm so frustrating' Gamel
is a lone exception…and who may in fact do more to support your claim…
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
Why isn't that guy playing in the majors?
25 years old and has always had great minor league numbers.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Sep 24, 2011 2:03 PM MDT up reply actions
because he's epically
and I mean epically bad at defense. DH or 1b and Prince was in the way…
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
the brewers had to go all-in because it's fielder's last year
we had 2 MVP-caliber position player years and a Cy-caliber pitcher last year, it’s not unreasonable to think a few tweaks combined with continued internal improvement would tip the scales of the west in our favor
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
by papality on Sep 24, 2011 11:57 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
I misread that at first
“Ok, they had 2 MVP guys (Braun and Fielder) and a CY caliber pitcher (a bit generous, but sure, Gallardo’s pretty damn good) – HEY, that sounds like the Rockies! Tulo, Cargo, and Ubaldo!”
/reads again
“WE had 2 MVP-….”
I’mma go lie down
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 12:02 PM MDT up reply actions
My biggest beef with O'Dowd
Is his unwillingness to sign an impact FA. It’s always just filling the team with a bunch of medicre scrap heap, hence is the reason we are where we are.
Colorado Offense: Making bad pitchers look like CY Young Winners.
by Colsportsfan on Sep 24, 2011 1:38 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Jorge de la Rosa.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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this past offseason?
He was the 2nd best lefty on the market after Cliff Lee.
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 1:43 PM MDT up reply actions
he the PTBNL for ramon ramirez
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
You're absolutely correct
But Colsportsfan’s comment was that we never sign impact FAs. DLR WAS a FA this past offseason – we had no official rights to him. We signed him out of FA.
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 1:45 PM MDT up reply actions
I personally keep forgetting that we signed him as a FA, not as an extension
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 1:51 PM MDT up reply actions
He was a free agent last offseason.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
he was very highly sought after in the 2010-2011 offseason
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
Maybe
We don’t actually know that. But I have no problem with that signing. He was on his way to a great year when the elbow went pop.
by BostonTransplant on Sep 24, 2011 2:01 PM MDT up reply actions
it's definitely a concern of mine too
but big FA signings are not always the panacea they’re made out to be. DOD has succeeded in locking up a lot of core players. And he has succeeded pretty well with the scrap heap guys. It’s just the more bold moves that are somewhere in between acquire a super star and acquire a veteran, journey man guy where he’s struggled.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
not only that
and maybe bigger, is his unwillingness to trade top prospects for top MLB talent.
this is the next step I’m waiting on. We’ll see what happens.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
The Rockies don't really have the payroll for this sort of trade.
It requires giving up players who will be locked up at a low salary rate in exchange for a player who is nearing the apex of his earning potential. So I doubt we’ll see very many opportunities for this kind of trade with our club.
They were willing to take on Wandy’s contract. I think there’s a change coming this offseason
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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Well we have a short gap right now..
between Helton and Cook’s contracts expiring until Tulo and Cargo’s big contracts hit. We’re also saving money without Ubaldo’s contract. So you’re right something could happen in this window.
i'll bet we can sustain $100 million for a few years
especially if there’s a couple deep postseason runs
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
Isn't it called Cougarton Abbey?
/Community reference
by purplesocks on Sep 24, 2011 10:16 AM MDT up reply actions
tied for 7th worst record in the league
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Sep 24, 2011 9:44 AM MDT via mobile reply actions
Really. There was a moment last night
where we put up a run in the top of the first, with Pomeranz pitching, that I thought maybe we can’t even lose right. The boys came through in the end though. We’re heading to the promised land. I can feel it.
by DumbAndNerdy on Sep 24, 2011 9:47 AM MDT up reply actions
JFK's Quote of the Day:
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"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
Report: MLB likely to add WC and 1-game playoff
"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
fun fun fun fun fun!
I love this idea.
Carlos Gonzalez has an extraordinary tendency to amplify light through stimulated emission of radiation in frequent bursts.
Shoulder-to-Shoulder for life!
Hollidayrain Music
by Hollidayrain on Sep 24, 2011 10:18 AM MDT up reply actions
I don't
Playoff expansion might be ok, but a one game playoff between two teams that might be 6-8 games apart is too radical (and I’m not even close to a traditionalist). One bad hop, one broken bat single, or one blown call by an ump and you take out or more talented team on a flukey loss. Why doesn’t MLB worry about things that need to be fixed, like instant replay, 4 hour playoff games, and Tim McCarver/Joe Buck broadcasting all those playoff games.
Since when has playoff expansion been about anything but money?
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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So why only one game
More games = more money. Why not expand to 16 playoff teams. You’d really make a lot money then.
I like the idea because it returns importance to winning the division.
by DumbAndNerdy on Sep 24, 2011 11:06 AM MDT up reply actions
That's overrated
Sometimes the WC team is better than the division winners in the other divisions. You’re then punishing them for being in the tougher division.
Sometimes the WC winner is in a weaker division and you're rewarding them
for player a weaker schedule.
by DumbAndNerdy on Sep 24, 2011 11:12 AM MDT up reply actions
Not Usually
I’m pretty sure the AL WC comes from the AL east most years and is usually a good team from the NL.
Since this wil mostly punish the Red Sox and Yankees
I’m all for it
I'm pretty disgusted right now!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Sep 24, 2011 12:19 PM MDT up reply actions
Good point
once one of them loses, the whole idea will be scrapped.
Look at the last 9 years
(I’ll assume that the Red Sox win the Wild Card this season because Tampa and LA have folded themselves)
The Red Sox and Yankees have won the AL Wild Card eight times in that span. If you threw them into a fluky one game playoff all those years, they would not have made the playoffs (been one of the last 8 teams) as often.
I’ll write about it more in the offseason but I really think this move helps the small market teams.
I'm pretty disgusted right now!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Sep 24, 2011 12:29 PM MDT up reply actions
I'm glad that my pessimism has rubbed off on you.
by DumbAndNerdy on Sep 24, 2011 12:31 PM MDT up reply actions
Seriously
The Rays and Angela have really pissed me off the last few days
I'm pretty disgusted right now!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Sep 24, 2011 12:38 PM MDT up reply actions
Would you say you’re pretty disgusted right now?
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Damn straight
I'm pretty disgusted right now!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Sep 24, 2011 12:43 PM MDT up reply actions
i'm actually upset the yankees won
for literally the first time in my life
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
I'm very upset the Yankees won
as I am literally every time it happens
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
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by Junction Rox on Sep 24, 2011 12:41 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
There are plenty of ways MLB could help small market teams
Giving one team (potentially small market) a one game chance to override the results of a full season is not at the top of my list of options…
It will also lead to seasons where a team like Tampa does play their asses off and win the wild card, only to be rewarded with a 1 game playoff against the Yankees or Sawx in order to stay in the playoffs. That will be great for them…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Sep 24, 2011 12:36 PM MDT up reply actions
I don't think MLB's goal here was to help small market teams
It was for more money. I’m not happy about why it is being put in place but I’m very pleased with what I think will happen as a byproduct of the move.
I'm pretty disgusted right now!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Sep 24, 2011 12:42 PM MDT up reply actions
I don’t think MLB’s goal here was to help small market teams
This is a safe assumption in any situation
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Sep 24, 2011 12:42 PM MDT up reply actions
The goal and the result are rarly going to match up when it comes to MLB though
And that’s probably going to really ring true here. There will be a ton of focus on the small and mid market teams now as they battle for that second Wild Card spot.
I'm pretty disgusted right now!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Sep 24, 2011 12:46 PM MDT up reply actions
They'll only get more money for one game
If Cleveland, for example, is the 2nd WC team and knocks off the Sawx in one game. Then all we’re going to hear for the next few weeks after is how some small market team was allowed to sneak in, and the playoffs aren’t worth watching.
No
They will make money during the ENTIRE MONTH of September when A) several teams battle for the second Wild Card spot and B) teams fight for divsions that all of a sudden mean something with the safty net of the automatic Wild Card eliminated.
This will be a win for the owners and the fans.
I'm pretty disgusted right now!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Sep 24, 2011 12:48 PM MDT up reply actions
I knew you'd respond to that
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 12:49 PM MDT up reply actions
HAHA
I’ll keep beating this drum. I feel very strongly about it.
I'm pretty disgusted right now!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Sep 24, 2011 1:02 PM MDT up reply actions
I'm not even opposed to the 2nd WC
What I am opposed to is the one game playoff. Heck, I don’t even like a 5 game series.
This is where most people disagree with me so I understand
But my stance here is that if you want to avoid that one game playoff – WIN YOUR DIVSION!!!! The Wild Card team is simply the first loser. It will actually play that way now.
I'm pretty disgusted right now!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Sep 24, 2011 1:04 PM MDT up reply actions
We're trying!!!!!!!!!1!!!
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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I even take it one step further
To me there is nothing in sport better than stretch run baseball. This will now almost guarantee that we will have excellent stretch run baseball evey September because it creates battles that really mean something all over the place. Not only for the divsions that you mentioned but also for that second Wild Card spot.
I'm pretty disgusted right now!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Sep 24, 2011 1:11 PM MDT up reply actions
I'll take good (and fair) october baseball over good september baseball anyday
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The NewNugs 2011 - Officially back on the Bandwagon
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by SurfaceThought on Sep 24, 2011 1:14 PM MDT up reply actions
The 'first loser'
has won quite a few championships since the rule has been implemented.
Supporting efforts to create a genetic splice of Jonathan Herrera and Troy Tulowitzki since 2011.
The NewNugs 2011 - Officially back on the Bandwagon
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by SurfaceThought on Sep 24, 2011 1:12 PM MDT up reply actions
Absolutely
And that’s because baseball in small sample size is the most unpredicable thing in all of sports. Now your just forcing the teams who fail to win their divsion over 162 games into more small sample size baseball.
I'm pretty disgusted right now!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Sep 24, 2011 1:30 PM MDT up reply actions
Which, some of us think, will be unfair to a lot of really good teams
especially since the ‘second loser’ is so often so far behind the first
Supporting efforts to create a genetic splice of Jonathan Herrera and Troy Tulowitzki since 2011.
The NewNugs 2011 - Officially back on the Bandwagon
I <3 Johnson
by SurfaceThought on Sep 24, 2011 1:36 PM MDT up reply actions
I don't know about that.
The NL Wild Card has been one by one game or less in three of the last five years.
by DumbAndNerdy on Sep 24, 2011 1:40 PM MDT up reply actions
Point
As it is close this year.
Supporting efforts to create a genetic splice of Jonathan Herrera and Troy Tulowitzki since 2011.
The NewNugs 2011 - Officially back on the Bandwagon
I <3 Johnson
by SurfaceThought on Sep 24, 2011 1:43 PM MDT up reply actions
Me either
MLB and the NFL have it just about right. Once in a while a dog creeps into the playoffs from a weak division, but usually there are a couple of good teams on the outside looking in. That’s much better than the NHL and NBA, where any team that even sniffs .500 is a shoo-in for postseason play.
Leave the postseason at 8 teams, please. The only change that might be defensible would be making the division series best-of-seven. That might make sense.
by Northsider1964 on Sep 24, 2011 11:08 AM MDT up reply actions
+1
Supporting efforts to create a genetic splice of Jonathan Herrera and Troy Tulowitzki since 2011.
The NewNugs 2011 - Officially back on the Bandwagon
I <3 Johnson
by SurfaceThought on Sep 24, 2011 1:15 PM MDT up reply actions
UGH
ugh ugh ugh ugh ugh
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Sep 24, 2011 11:00 AM MDT up reply actions
Matt Kemp
Leading the NL in homers, RBI, stolen bases bases, runs scored, OPS, 2nd in outfield assists to CarGo, .003 behind in batting average, 2nd in hits, and 2nd in slugging.
That is ABSURD.
Carlos Gonzalez has an extraordinary tendency to amplify light through stimulated emission of radiation in frequent bursts.
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Wow
I haven’t been paying attention. Has he gone on some sort of spree lately? The east coast writers are gonna have to work overtime to not give him MVP.
by BostonTransplant on Sep 24, 2011 10:52 AM MDT up reply actions
not really
braun is a very reasonable candidate
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
Hard to argue for Braun, really
Since he leads Kemp in, well, nothing. Does Kemp really lead the NL in SB’s? Holy crap.
Also, he plays CF.
by BostonTransplant on Sep 24, 2011 2:04 PM MDT up reply actions
michael bourn leads the NL in steals
the difference in WAR between the two is solely the result of their positional adjustment, and braun plays for the NL central champion brewers, while kemp plays for the shame of professional sports LA dodgers
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
by papality on Sep 24, 2011 2:06 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Alanna Rizzo read my question on Thursday's game!!
I was working and just recently watched it on my DVR.
Dex has come up strong after being sent down. Since the ASB Dex leads the NL in XBH with 36. He has 7 more than Matt Kemp. He’s also 2nd to Kemp out of all CF in the NL with a .905 OPS in the second half.
There was much excitement here when she read your question
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
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by Junction Rox on Sep 24, 2011 11:02 AM MDT up reply actions
I was weirded out
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 11:25 AM MDT up reply actions
I think that weirds me out a little more
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 11:41 AM MDT up reply actions
Not all of us can become famous from a "Hit Radio Show"
Do you know how many text messages I got from Alanna mentioning my name? Two!
I might need to expand my wireless plan.
Colorado Rockies Players on Twitter
-- odowd apologist --
You sir, envy no man.
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 3:10 PM MDT up reply actions
Chemistry. Definite chemistry.
You could cut it with a knife…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
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by Junction Rox on Sep 24, 2011 11:36 AM MDT up reply actions
Dexter-ish
and I don’t mean our CF
"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Second in hits AND slugging?
What a slacker…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
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by Junction Rox on Sep 24, 2011 11:01 AM MDT up reply actions
in A pitchers park
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Sep 24, 2011 2:12 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
922-1018.....
This is NOT my phone number, so don’t try to make a call. This is Dan O’Dowd’s career record as GM of the Rockies, through last night. 96 games under .500, and he has a shot of 100 games under .500 by next week, though I suspect he will miss that milestone.
This is a failed GM steering our ship. He has 4 winning seasons and 8 losing seasons in 12 years. Two of the four winning teams were barely over .500, at 82-80 (the 2000 team with mainly Geb’s players) and 83-79 (last year). His average team has gone 77-85, and the Rockies have one of the worst 12 year records in the NL. Also, only two playoff teams in 12 years, and NO divisions titles….speaks volumes. Sure, the two playoff teams were in recent years, hence the relatively good will still toward the franchise leadership. However, taken in totality, this GM is below average in RESULTS over a long period of time.
Oh, but let’s blame Tracy and leave DOD off the plank that we want JT to walk. Some fans just aren’t looking at the big picture.
Below average?
What is the average number of wins per team since DOD became GM?
Tell me that number. Then tell me he is below average.
We know he is above average in WS appearances and average in playoff appearances.
by DumbAndNerdy on Sep 24, 2011 11:16 AM MDT up reply actions
And I'm not asking this to be annoying.
But words have meaning. Below average has meaning. Give me the average. Then you can use the words. Until then, it’s just your opinion.
by DumbAndNerdy on Sep 24, 2011 11:17 AM MDT up reply actions
Sure, this is rather easy...
The generic “average” team is 81-81 and has 6 winning seasons in 12 years. In a 5 team division, mathmatically the average team should finish first in the division twice in 12 years.
We average 77-85 under DOD, have losing seasons two-thirds of the time, and never once finsihed first in the division.
The WS appearance was great and won O’Dowd much goodwill. Your comment is an example of that. But his shelf life is expiring, in my view, based on too many disappointments before and after that WS appearance, 2009 notwithstanding.
Who would you consider a good GM?
Kevin Towers is considered good by many and he has the same number of WS appearances as O’Dowd.
We don't live in a perfect world.
Drawing the line down the middle doesn’t work. I’m with Petro – back it up.
Altar Boy in the Church of Santo Ubaldo
"...buffalo chicken is a fine anti-depressant, after all." -UZ
"... One order of buffalo wings, please..." -Yokel, after July 30, 2011
I guess this is what I'm getting at.
81-81 really isn’t a good “average.” You’re taking the mean of total wins and losses of all clubs to generate an artificial average. You really need to take the median of each club’s season record over each season that DOD has been around.
For a quicker method, you could take the median of all club wins and losses since DOD was GM and see where the Rockies sit in relation to that. You may be right. They might be below average. But I’m not sure. I’d like to know, and I might end up doing this myself.
by DumbAndNerdy on Sep 24, 2011 11:31 AM MDT up reply actions
Anyway, I think if you followed these methods above, you would find that we
are in the middle third of teams. This is about where we should be. I think we should be shooting for doing better, but this takes time. That being said, DOD’s time is obviously running out unless the team improves over the next two-to-three years.
It’s all about the Ubaldo trade and its repercussions at this point.
by DumbAndNerdy on Sep 24, 2011 11:35 AM MDT up reply actions
Well, I have proof your "middle third" perception is not reality...
I ran the W/L numbers for all 16 NL teams since the 2000 season. The Rockies rank 12th out of the 16. Only the Reds, Brewers, Nats/Expos, and Pirates have a worse cumulative record since O’Dowd took over.
Being twelth out of 16 teams is hardly “middle third”. We’d have to be at least #10 or #11 to barely enter the middle third. We’re just behind the Padres, but would have had to win 30 more games the past 12 years to catch the #10 team, the CHICAGO CUBS.
Who here would have said the Cub have a better overall record than O’Dowd’s Rockies since he took over? I’ll bet not too many.
The Philadelphia Phillies franchise has an overall record of 9233-10290, making them one of the saddest franchises in baseball history.
You can select endpoints as much as you want, but every single team goes through ebbs and flows and you are ignoring that fact.
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Very good point here.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Sep 24, 2011 5:40 PM MDT up reply actions
For a non-baseball metaphor
During Abraham Lincoln’s first year as President, half the country seceded and a civil war erupted.
Does this make him a bad president?
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I meant middle third of all teams,
not just the NL. I’ll do an analysis of this at some point according to how this should be done.
by DumbAndNerdy on Sep 24, 2011 5:36 PM MDT up reply actions
If I'm understanding this correctly,
it’s not quite accounting for the median either. But, as I said, I’ll try to work this out at some point.
I may be wrong as well. But I’d like the data to show me what the truth is.
by DumbAndNerdy on Sep 24, 2011 5:50 PM MDT up reply actions
ruben amaro has a record of 288-192, .667%
does that make him a great GM? no. in fact, amaro is a terrible GM. but if you only looked at his W-L, you’d think he was the casey stengel of GMs
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
I'm not sure why you you think that would be any different
There’s a winner and a loser in every game. So, by definition, teams tend to cluster around the middle and means and medians should be nearly identical. To the extent they’re not, it’s just noise.
by BostonTransplant on Sep 24, 2011 2:07 PM MDT up reply actions
a .500 team is not an average team
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
within 1-2 games most years, though...
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
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by Junction Rox on Sep 24, 2011 11:52 AM MDT up reply actions
We should be defining the median team, what the record of the 15/16th teams are
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 2:27 PM MDT up reply actions
First we should decide if we're using the mean or the median?
Colorado Rockies Players on Twitter
-- avid apologist --
probably not
by definition, the average will be .500 ball. That’s not necessarily an Average Team, however.
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 2:32 PM MDT up reply actions
Number of wins by the #15 team in MLB - 2002 - 2010
80
85
83
81 (SD was the WC with 82, the 14th best record)
80
83
84 (Dodgers – wild card)
84
81
Average about 82.3. I’m actually surprised – I would have figured a bit below .500….
For the record, Colorado has averaged about 77.5 wins over the same period…
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by Junction Rox on Sep 24, 2011 11:45 AM MDT up reply actions
The average winning percentage for the Rox is .476..
since 2000. That’s an average of 77.1 wins per 162 games.
Charlie asked who I’d have replace O’Dowd. Thad Levine who assisted him would probably do a better job, but I think it’s a separate subject as to naming names. Rather, let me prove my above point.
There is a better metric than number of WS appearances, which is almost like judging a pro golfer based on the number of holes-in-one they’ve had.
Instead, here’s a better metric….. career W/L record inside the division. I just hand-cranked the results:
From 2000 – 2011 (through 9/23 games):
SF – 1031 – 905 (.538)
LA – 1021 – 917 (.527)
AZ – 961 – 978 (.496)
SD – 927 – 1013 (.478)
CO – 922 – 1016 (.476)
Is anyone OK with a GM’s 12 year track record that is last in his division?
No, not really.
Are you giving any credence or weight to the fact that about 5 years of that was a rebuild cycle? Not that those W/L didn’t count, but the team wasn’t EXPECTED to be worth a damn from roughly 2003-2007.
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 11:52 AM MDT up reply actions
but that rebuild cycle
didn’t start when DO’D was hired. I’m pretty much ambivalent on him at this point, but there is an argument to be made that part of that rebuild was rebuilding what DO’D himself had built…
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by Junction Rox on Sep 24, 2011 11:54 AM MDT up reply actions
Correct....
O’Dowd built a team for winning in 2001 with megacontracts and lost 90 games that year instead. Sound familiar? He hamstrung the franchise with overpriced contracts (HampNeagle and Helton), and had to undo his own mess. He isn’t the only one to blame for that, but he’s not blameless.
Every team goes through up and down cycles over 12 years...
so your point is not really without merit, but it’s very weak.
The Giants had to rebuild after losing Barry Bonds.
The Dodgers have had ownership disfunctionality over that period twice.
The Snakes almost went bankrupt and lost their 2-time Cy Young winner in Webb as well as Johnson and Schilling earlier in the period.
The Padres have had financial troulbe and weaker fan support as well as firesales.
All have a better record than the Rockies over 12 years. This is a damning fact about the O’Dowd administration, and I think ownership should select a new leader of the baseball ops.
Oh, good! Merit!
Seriously, it was just a question. I wouldn’t have counted it either.
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 12:00 PM MDT up reply actions
The 5 year rebuild was a result of Dealin' Dan's own foibles...
in answer to your earlier question, Andrew. It was ordered by ownership who won’t be held blameless, but the main accountability should be with the head of baseball ops, the GM.
It was also the hand he was given
Colorado has never believed in a good farm system and we paid the price with literally no impact players not named Todd Helton.
The megacontracts were a desperate effort to keep relevant and competitive. We spent money because there really wasn’t another choice.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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when it's within .002 of not being last, yes
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
Not quite sure you are fine with a GM...
that has guided his team to irrelevancy with one of the worst division records more often than not, but to each his/her own.
there are few truly great GMs
epstein, AA, cashman, friedman. and they’re locked up. who’s really, truly better, by a significant margin, than o’dowd? and you can’t use those 4, either.
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
Epstein is NOT a great GM.
Sorry. Just not. I’ll take the others though.
by DumbAndNerdy on Sep 24, 2011 12:01 PM MDT up reply actions
oh but only GM W-L matters
did nobody tell you?
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
Maybe not
but the Sox have drafted really friggin well lately and always have late-first round picks. They’ve excelled in that area. They haven’t excelled in the area of ’Don’t sign John Lackey’ however…
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
Someone else with potential will be given a chance...
sooner or later. So we will all get over O’Dowd, who really hasn’t distinguished himself here. Naming names right now is not what I want to engage in right now.
but if you think o'dowd is bad
then surely you think other teams have better GMs, right? who are they?
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
I've always been a fan of
Bizarro Dan B’Dowd*
- ‘B’ denotes ‘Bizarro’
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
Some other time...
I will get into that. Did you ever consider there are people in baseball organizations today who would be better GM’s who aren’t currently GM’S? DOD had never been a GM before taking the Rockies job. So why do you limit it to people who ARE GMs?
because by comparing his W-L% as a GM to other teams W-L% during that time period
you’re comparing him to GMs, not “people in baseball organizations.”
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
I don't get your logic...
By the numbers (W/L record over 12 years), DOD has shown himself to be less successful than the average GM. For a midmarket team, we need an ABOVE-average GM, or someone with a ceiling of being above-avereage, since our margin for error is less than for the Dodgers and Giants in bigger markets.
Keep in mind we are a big midmarket team, though, with our territorial exclusivity and outstanding fan support.
I think the Rockies are in a decent spot.
They are in the middle 3rd of the MLB. They are an expansion team from less that 20 years ago that has dealt with some pretty extreme issues as far as adaptation to a new baseball environment.
I think their goal should be to shoot for the top third of the MLB, but that’s a difficult, elusive goal for most team. For most of his tenure, DOD has had the Rockies on the right path to approach that top-third goal. If he cannot get the Rockies back on that track, he should go. But I’m not going to pretend that we’re the Pirates or Royals or Orioles.
We aren’t
by DumbAndNerdy on Sep 24, 2011 12:10 PM MDT up reply actions
My standards for the team I root for are just higher than that...
I think O’Dowd himself once stated his goal was to win 90 games year in and year out, and to play meaningful games in September every year. Heard that in person once. He has never gotten more than isolated seasons of that sort of level, which I think is a legitamite standard and expectation for both a GM and his team’s fans.
Here is a list of teams that can expect to win 90+ games every season:
Yankees
Red Sox
Phillies
That’s it.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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And the Phillies are new to this,
and will probably drop back off the map at some point.
by DumbAndNerdy on Sep 24, 2011 12:17 PM MDT up reply actions
3-4 years, hopefully
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
yo, lower that number to 70+ games
AND YOU CAN ADD THE ROCKIES TO THAT LIST!!!! WHATTUPPPPP
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
#winning
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
#losing
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 12:20 PM MDT up reply actions
hey we win...
sometimes…
just so long as it’s not september. or may. or july. or august.
oh, crap..
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
Yeah, but we’ve sure got that “winning in April” thing down pat
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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And the Red Sox have failed to do this in two fo the last 5 years
I'm pretty disgusted right now!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Sep 24, 2011 12:24 PM MDT up reply actions
You mean that baseball isn’t predictable? And that sustained winning isn’t guaranteed if you spend money or have the best players?
Whoa.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
they won 89 in 2010
with nothing short of ridiculously bad DL luck
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
It's also important to note that baseball works in long cycles.
This is something that I love about the game, even though I am a Pirates fan. Due to the nature of some other leagues, there is the expectation that teams should always be two steps away from a championship.
This has never been the way that baseball has worked. It never will be. This isn’t an excuse for anything, it’s just a fact of baseball life. You can count the teams that have avoided regular up-and-down cycles throughout history on one hand, possibly on three fingers.
Acknnowledging this make me pleased with where the club has been recently, with an eye toward needing improvements or big changes in the next few years.
by DumbAndNerdy on Sep 24, 2011 12:16 PM MDT up reply actions
Given that you are a Pirates fan....
I can see where you’re coming from in being pleased with the Rockies’ achievements. Seriously, though, didn’t you expect more of this 2011 team, and don’t you want to hold anyone accountable?
Let’s hold the players accountable for being awful.
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not Don Baylor?
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
Yeah, I can't believe we kept him around for another season
It’s obvious he was the person holding back this awesome lineup
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
he should've traded for Cliff Lee
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 12:20 PM MDT up reply actions
hey, lee can hit like a mofo
i hear he pitches reasonably well, in addition
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
Not the architect who brought us this cast of players?
The buck stops somewhere.
10 game losing streaks are not the fault of the GM.
They are the fault of the players and the coaching staff.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Nobody set out to assemble the team that's playing now
Well, maybe as the Tulsa Drillers. But I’m pretty sure that if you removed CarGo, Tulo, Todd, Stewart, Hammel, JdlR and a few others from the team before last offseason, we wouldn’t have just run this team out on the field..
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by Junction Rox on Sep 24, 2011 12:23 PM MDT up reply actions
okay, so what about last season?
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There's clearly a major issue going on
even with the lack of talent out there this year, there is no excuse for tanking like they are. And last year just establishes that it’s a pattern. I’m just saying that I don’t think you can blame the architect of the team for that. To me it says more about a lack of leadership, both on the field and in the dugout…
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by Junction Rox on Sep 24, 2011 12:26 PM MDT up reply actions
I've never looked at such short term issues...
as losing streaks. It’s the season-long pratfall when we were a division favorite, coming on top of disappointing seasons in 2008 and 2010, and an overall last place record in the NL West since 2000 that has me saying the fault is the GM’s.
Hold on a second.
You say we enter the season as a divisional favorite, but it’s the GM’s fault when we don’t succeed?
The great minds in baseball look at the team that O’Dowd built and pick them to make the playoffs/win the division. How is it the GMs fault when that doesn’t happen? All he can do is put talent in the clubhouse.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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Yes.
And I think they are being held accountable. Tracy is on the clock. He either improves in 2012 or is gone. DOD is also not he clock, though his timeline might stretch to 2013.
The players are certainly going to be held accountable if DOD sticks by his words.
But you don’t scrap it all and rebuild when you’re in a pretty good situation. And the Rockies aren’t all that bad right now.
by DumbAndNerdy on Sep 24, 2011 12:20 PM MDT up reply actions
DOD should be gone sooner than 2013...
but I don’t expect him to be gone even then. Most other MLB team owners would have fired him by now. The loyalty shown by the Monforts is just astonishing to me.
O'Dowd is still a top half GM
it’s rare for teams to simply abandon those types of front office guys.
/Kevin Towers
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And why do you say he's a top half GM?
What’s the empirical evidence? This is a results-driven business, and his 12 years of results have just not be very good.
the circumstances of all 12 years have not been identical
you can’t keep lumping them all together as if they were
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
No team has the same circumstances over the past 12 years
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 12:28 PM MDT up reply actions
I'm not going to say there are a lot of apologists here...
because that would be disrespectful and I don’t want to get banned. Let’s just say there are many “overly-forgiving” fans writing comments here. DOD has done little to deserve such support. Denver is a friendly town!
So there are two opinions on O'Dowd?
Yours and “overly forgiving”?
Got it…
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by Junction Rox on Sep 24, 2011 12:33 PM MDT up reply actions
Firing someone who is considered competent at his job (at the very least) is no sure way of improving the ballclub’s future.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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WS. 2 Playoffs.
Tulo. Cargo.
A fun team to watch over the last four or five years (except for this year).
That’s good stuff.
I’m thankful.
by DumbAndNerdy on Sep 24, 2011 12:33 PM MDT up reply actions
And honestly, there are at least 15 clubs worth of fans
who would love to have had the experiences and the teams we have had over the last 5 years, including this one.
by DumbAndNerdy on Sep 24, 2011 12:37 PM MDT up reply actions
you are overweighting the early years
and underrating the recent years
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
and overweighting the MOST recent years?
This disappointing of a season is going to have people calling for heads.
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 12:37 PM MDT up reply actions
indeed
and it already seems to
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
That was the point
Hell, I’m calling for a head.
Although I never wanted the owner of said head in the first place
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 12:45 PM MDT up reply actions
And nobody is saying that DO'D hasn't made mistakes
he obviously has. He’s completely changed course from the free agency oriented strategy of his early years to a more appropriate and sustainable plan of focusing on building from within. He clearly needs to make further adjustments in terms of development and scouting to make that strategy work. But I think they are better off letting him do that than firing him and starting over with who knows who…
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by Junction Rox on Sep 24, 2011 12:40 PM MDT up reply actions
What I like about O'Dowd is how he's learned from his mistakes..
and improved his side of the club every year. The farm is better stocked now than any time in the past 10 years. The club has good young players Tulo, Cargo locked up long-term and that makes people loyal to the team. Fan loyalty brought 3 million people to Coors Field and made the club profitable enough to be able to sign free agents or invest in a DR complex, etc. Dan’s performance has made this club better for the next few years.
I think him learning from his mistakes
is the most important trait he’s shown. This offseason will be a good test to see how much he’s learned from more recent mistakes/disappointments
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
I disagree with that assessment.
You should really look at how he compares to other GMs. I think most people in baseball see him as a good GM.
by DumbAndNerdy on Sep 24, 2011 12:25 PM MDT up reply actions
Agreed
If the Rockies did fire DO’D, he would be in another GM chair in under a month. Almost guaranteed. But I’m sure whoever hired him wouldn’t know what they were doing either…
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by Junction Rox on Sep 24, 2011 12:27 PM MDT up reply actions
Seeing someone as a good GM does not make him one...
and I question your anecdotal comment that other GMs think he’s good. Is it simply because he has survived so long as our GM? What is it?
His track record on trades is pretty solid.
He doesn’t really sign bad contracts.
He has shown creative ways to lock up young players at below market rates.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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Some of this is true...
and some of it is selective memory. What you don’t know are the good trades that he passed up, such as Astacio for Vernon Wells and Chris Carpenter. While he locks players up that haven’t backfired recently, he locked Helton up to an overpriced contract extension in 2001.
I suppose the best thing you could say is that DOD has improved, and most of his awful signings and deals happened when he was a younger GM. But then, how do you explain his utter failure to get us an MLB caliber 2nd baseman, or our franchise-worst offense that he assembled this year?
That’s why I look at the totality of his body of work as reflected in the 12-year W/L record and number of playoff teams. On that score, he has been unremarkable. He’s also drafted poorly, or should I say his people have. One impact 1st rounder in 12 drafts is not good for a team relying on homegrown talent.
You’re suggesting firing O’Dowd because of his work in 2001. Wow.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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(and look at Helton’s numbers. He earned that contract.)
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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47 WAR with the reworked deal?
i’d sure say so
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
And he reworked the back end of it when he could have been overpaid
Excellent deal
I'm pretty disgusted right now!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Sep 24, 2011 12:49 PM MDT up reply actions
No, you can't sign Helton to that contract
you need to save that money to go sign OTHER guys to that contract.
You see, RIRF, baseball is a complicated game.
Seriously though, the pundits bitch that we don’t sign expensive guys because of their huge contract demands, and then bitch when we sign our OWN future expensive guys to less-huge contract demands than they’d get on the open market.
Go be Yankees fans, pundits.
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 12:54 PM MDT up reply actions
I think many of them already are
I'm pretty disgusted right now!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Sep 24, 2011 1:05 PM MDT up reply actions
(I thought that the minute I posted it)
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 1:10 PM MDT up reply actions
Sep 24, 2011 12:54 PM MDT
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
that was the minute I thought it, yes.
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 1:13 PM MDT up reply actions
also the "helton contract was bad" line has long since been disproved
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
You mean like Mark Ellis?
He’s an MLB caliber 2B even if he isn’t a .330 hitter.
Past that, what teams have been completely successful in “going out and getting” a MLB caliber 2B?
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 12:46 PM MDT up reply actions
Atlanta?
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Sep 24, 2011 12:48 PM MDT up reply actions
crap
uhhhhh
/backpedals
BUT THE ALL STAR GAME
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 12:52 PM MDT up reply actions
Don't forget his dreadful first half of the season.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
I'm kind of kidding anyhow
He’s going to be a 3B sooner than later – which would’ve worked perfectly for us as well… I guess I kind of see Uggla as a not-2B who is playing 2B.
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 12:55 PM MDT up reply actions
traded one all-star for another
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
I'm saying since we let Kaz leave...
all of our 2B options have been substandard, and way below MLB average. Ellis being the best of the bunch that preceeded him tells us more about DOD’s failure here than about Ellis’s excellence.
Actually, though, Jamey Carroll was better than Ellis, and he’s in L.A.!
Only 1/4 of MLB teams have decent to good second basemen. They are the rarest of rare commodities in today’s baseball landscape.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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Kaz was NOT worth a 3-year deal.
He wasn’t worth that before he signed with Houston, and his tenure with Houston proved it.
Jamey Carroll was no better than Johnny Herrera when we traded him to Cleveland
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 12:51 PM MDT up reply actions
That's a bit ridiculous...
Carroll is good for a .340+ OBP every year and played gold glove caliber D at 2nd base. Herrera is lucky if he gets a .310 OBP. Herrera, in fact, is a poor man’s Jamey Carroll.
Jamey Carroll is a gold glove caliber 2B?
Really?
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Maybe not GG, but he's most certainly a + glove at 2B
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 12:59 PM MDT up reply actions
Caroll's 2007 was godawful
and we had internal candidates to compete for the job in 2008.
Herrera sucks, I don’t know why you’re trying to sell me on this point.
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 12:58 PM MDT up reply actions
i'm not sure if you're aware just how bad most 2B are
the average line in the NL this year for 2B is .257/.317/.379; we’ve had .253 .300 .351
doesn’t seem that far off
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
Median 2B production looks to be about 87-88 wRC+
Rockies had 66.
/suicide
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 1:00 PM MDT up reply actions
yeah i'll go ahead and jump off this particular sinking ship
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
it's not a pretty one
I wanted to believe the numbers you posted, I really did.
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 1:02 PM MDT up reply actions
just think
I really try to not let past drafts bother me
we’ll see what happens with Matzek, Anderson, Wheeler, etc, but if we don’t get at least one bite from the post-Casey-Weathers drafts, I’m going to have to start being upset again at stuff.
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 1:11 PM MDT up reply actions
Manager has a big impact here though.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
But Jonny Herrera is scrappy
and EYJ has speed. You can’t teach that.
george steinbrenner is dead, man
he can’t fire people anymore
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
by papality on Sep 24, 2011 12:27 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
And it's not just being a Pirates fan,
it’s being a baseball fan and realizing what it takes to build a winning franchise, along with how baseball has worked throughout history.
by DumbAndNerdy on Sep 24, 2011 12:22 PM MDT up reply actions
and I really admire what the Brewers are doing this year
but if they don’t win the pennant, they’re really going to regret some of those decisions.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
And this is it.
Teams can always come out of nowhere every now-and-then. But building a consistent winner is ridiculously difficult.
by DumbAndNerdy on Sep 24, 2011 12:27 PM MDT up reply actions
Of course it is
But you can’t win consistently without winning at least once. The Brewers had a really good core of young offensive players whose peak years were going to be wasted unless they went for the flag while they could. Maybe that loss of prospects hurts them down the road, or maybe this division title catapults their franchise up a few notches. We don’t know the answer yet, but if I’m a Brewers fan I don’t mind being along for the ride.
by Northsider1964 on Sep 24, 2011 2:30 PM MDT up reply actions
Good argument. Very persuasive.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
As per baseball's (and subsequently, the Milwaukee Brewer's) anti-trust exemption status
I’m compelled, by law, to inform you that Boston Transplant is correct.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
No they won't
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 2:29 PM MDT up reply actions
Maybe they should
if they fizzle this season, but I can guarantee you they won’t. There’s also next season, so they’re taking two shots at it all.
On a similar note...
today we get to congratulate our divisional friends the Diamondbacks on their 5th division title over their 14 year history. In those 14 years (barely longer than DOD’s tenure here) they’ve had 3 GMs (and a couple of interim GMs). Joe Jr. was fired 3 years after they won the WS title!
I’m not on the fire Dan bandwagon, (mostly because I think of DOD’s tenure as 2 periods; pre-and post-humidor) but GRG makes some fair points.
"Surgeons have determined that doing the wave will, yes, will cause tears to the suprapinatus muscle and the infraspinatus muscle from the throwing of an individual's arms rapidly into the air. In addition, any children doing the wave will be sold to the circus. Do NOT do the wave in the ballpark. Doing the wave is safe at pro football games and Miley Cyrus concerts.
-scoreboard announcement at Ranger Ballpark in Arlington via Baseball Nation.
by RdRnnr on Sep 24, 2011 3:52 PM MDT up reply actions 4 recs
Call me bitter
but I’m not congratulating the Dbacks for squat. I hate them only a little less than the Giants.
"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
The rest of the NL from 2000 - 2011...
Thanks for seeing my points, RdRnnr. For those interested, here are the W/L records of the rest of our NL competitors. Even our expansion cousin Marlins have out-won O’Dowd’s Rockies…
NL Central:
STL – 1085 – 853 (.560)
HOU – 963 – 975 (.497)
CHI – 952 – 985 (.491)
CIN – 918 – 1021 (.473)
MIL – 910 – 1028 (.470)
PIT – 808 – 1128 (.417)
NL East:
ATL – 1072 – 865 (.553)
PHI – 1045 – 892 (.539)
NYM – 968 – 968 (.500)
FLA – 962 – 975 (.497)
WAS – 856 – 1081 (.442)
One pitcher
is not really enough to stabilize the rotation. I’m assuming White and Pomz both start the season in Tulsa. That leaves us with Chacin and a new guy and who else? Granted it might get better once DLR, Nicasio, White, and Pomz are all ready. I’ve got a feeling we’re going to be floundering for a few months until then.
No, but one pitcher
Who can actually sniff the 7th inning with regularity would help this team immensely. A starter who can do that impacts an entire series, not just a single game.
by Northsider1964 on Sep 24, 2011 11:21 AM MDT up reply actions
Yeah, it'd be better than none
but two would be better still.
Oh absolutely
But you need guys who can get deep into games. Don’t go get two more nibblers who hit 100 pitches in the 5th, please.
by Northsider1964 on Sep 24, 2011 11:27 AM MDT up reply actions
Millwood? Maybe?
Thank you Cookie for many years of service. Hope all goes well with you in your continued career.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
*Cough* Edwin Jackon, Mark Buehrle *Cough*
and Millwood temporarily…
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
Yes on Jackson, No on Buehrle
Putting Buehrle in Coors is a recipe for disaster.
Jason Giambi for player-manager in 2012!
How the world will end in 2012: George of the Roses builds a Machine that Pommels everyone with La Violencia during Whiteouts.
I feel like Jackson would be the same way
I love his inning loads, so I’d be willing to take a chance, but something about his propensity to just go wild as the Serengeti has me really nervous whenever his name comes up.
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 11:40 AM MDT up reply actions
Buehrle's effectiveness would really depend on
our infield defense more than anything. If that sucks, then Buehrle is less attractive. But for a young rotation, I could see Buehrle’s presence coupled with his injury-free history, and groundball tendencies to be pretty decent fits…
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
explain this
he’s not a flyball/strikeout guy, he’s essentially jeff francis, who was very successful here
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
I like Jackson.
He’s a horse. Can throw many innings.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Sep 24, 2011 1:40 PM MDT up reply actions
Come many miles. Throw ball hard.
Possesses spirit of Buffalo.
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 1:42 PM MDT up reply actions
Why would you assume White and Pomeranz start in Tulsa?
They’re here, and they’re here to stay. So we really start with Chacin, Pomeranz, White and I think Hammel has earned his place back in the rotation to start next year. So, add one pitcher (Wandy, Garza, whoever, even Millwood) and you’ve got a passable rotation to hold the fort down until DLR and Nicasio come back.
Jason Giambi for player-manager in 2012!
How the world will end in 2012: George of the Roses builds a Machine that Pommels everyone with La Violencia during Whiteouts.
I'm thinking White becasue of his rough few weeks
and Pomz so they can control his innings. I’d like to be wrong on both.
Why would he need to be in AA to control his innings?
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 11:42 AM MDT up reply actions
How much did he throw this year?
I’m just assuming not much. I’m also going on rumors and hearsay too.
I'm not disagreeing with the innings cap
I’m wondering why he needs to be in AA to do so.
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 11:45 AM MDT up reply actions
He doesn't
Just thinking the team believes he does.
Interesting
I’m not trying to shred you here, I’m really just wondering “Why AA? I mean, last night sucked for Pom, but he looked really good – in Coors Field – his prior 2 starts. Is AA going to help him learn more?”
I personally love the idea of Pom on a fast track and staying on that fast track.
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 11:53 AM MDT up reply actions
I'd rather he's in the big leagues too
My assumption was based on what I thought the Rockies would do.
for no particular reason
other than that’s what most teams like to do.
I just need to chime in with my pet peeve, here....
What kind of organization has to send near major-league ready pitchers to it’s AA club because they’re afraid of exposing them to the AAA stadium?
It’s crazy — we have a AAA team that’s more or less a public relations effort to keep folks in Co Spgs happy, rather than get our guys ready for the big club.
You're reading a lot of Official Organizational Decisions into webgem's perception on what may happen
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 1:01 PM MDT up reply actions
Nah, I wasn't commenting on the webgem stuff
Just venting about, as I said, a pet peeve. Having a pitcher killer as your AAA stadium doesn’t make much sense, does it?
The Springs is particularly bad
bu the whole PCL is awful
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
It strikes me that Tulsa is plenty big enough as a city....
to be home to a AAA franchise. Why not upgrade that club, apply to be part of the Int’l League, and then find another AA affiliate?
gotcha
hard to navigate, etc.
Resolution and I have been talking off the Row about CSprings and trying to find SOME way of making it a viable thing. Humidor will help.
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 1:12 PM MDT up reply actions
If you're determined to keep it in the Springs...
then a new stadium ahs to be built. That ballpark is out on a windy bluff where the wind is usually blowing out. Total nightmare.
Or Like I said, upgrade Tulsa to AAA and get another AA affiliate. If you wanna keep it in Colorado, look to the north. The Colorado Eagles minor league hockey team (at the Bud Center in Loveland) have sold out something like 360 consecutive home games. A minor league team in that complex would sell out game after game — and Loveland is about 2000 feet lower than where Security Field is located.
I mentioned this a few weeks ago.
I’d be for a new park up along I-25 around the Fort. The Rox don’t own the sky Sox though.
by DumbAndNerdy on Sep 24, 2011 1:19 PM MDT up reply actions
THEN BUY THEM. BUY THEM ALL.
Supporting efforts to create a genetic splice of Jonathan Herrera and Troy Tulowitzki since 2011.
The NewNugs 2011 - Officially back on the Bandwagon
I <3 Johnson
by SurfaceThought on Sep 24, 2011 1:20 PM MDT up reply actions
Right - but they can cut ties with them, I assume
Unless they’re locked into some long term agreement. I have no idea….
I think they sign
a three (or five) year contract extension every few years but I don’t remember the last time this occurred.
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
its definitely rough
though I’ve been on this trip of ‘its more important to have a AAA stadium that mimics the MLB one, rather than just move AAA to a normal, sea-level location’
I think players learning to play at altitude in a non-MLB setting is a crucial, cruuuuuuucial developmental experience. That being said, CO Springs needs to be tamed in some fashion.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
You lost me here
(Wandy, Garza, whoever, even Millwood)
If the club wants to bring Millwood back on a cheap deal as insurance, so be it. But he cannot be the “addition” this rotation needs. If you bring Millwood back, you still need to get someone else.
by Northsider1964 on Sep 24, 2011 11:50 AM MDT up reply actions
Totally
we’d definitely need Millwood as depth but him alone won’t do it.
We’re all banking on Nicasio and JDLR coming back and being decent but we’re all also neglecting the fact that Pomeranz and to a lesser extent White are both raw and will have pretty clear inning caps.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
i would kill for garza or buehrle
jackson would even be a good candidate
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
Niemann
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
he's too tall
tall pitchers can’t pitch well at Coors because of the air density and how the magnus force interacts with their pitches.
#MadeupfactsFTW
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
we already have one jason hammel
not really sure another is really going to help that much
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
I'll take 175 above average innings, thankyouverymuch
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
if he were to keep that walk rate and that groundball rate
into 2012, he’d be a pretty sweet acquisition
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
Maybe just give the talented one we already have
a good swift kick in the arse, and that might help more.
Or maybe the team did just that when they exiled him to the bullpen. He’s looked pretty good since getting that wakeup call.
by Northsider1964 on Sep 24, 2011 12:20 PM MDT up reply actions
Would love to have Garza also, but he would cost ALOT
Thank you Cookie for many years of service. Hope all goes well with you in your continued career.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
OT: One of my neigbors is making green chile
and it smells excellent.
oh jealous
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 12:55 PM MDT up reply actions
Did you catch my question at the end of yesterday's OT?
I was wondering if you liked Generationals or Mates of State.
by DumbAndNerdy on Sep 24, 2011 12:58 PM MDT up reply actions
I missed it, my bad
I have never heard of them.
Muzia probably has
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 1:01 PM MDT up reply actions
Heard of both of them, but can’t really claim to be familiar with their work
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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I really like Generationals.
They’re playing a show at the Bluebird in November with Mates of State. I was curious if any of you young hipsters were going. I think I might go.
Generationals also played the UMS, but I wasn’t paying 60 bucks to see one band play a shortened set.
by DumbAndNerdy on Sep 24, 2011 1:06 PM MDT up reply actions
gimme an album by them to listen to
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 1:12 PM MDT up reply actions
Their latest is Actor-Caster.
It’s probably better overall than their first, although my favorite song by them is on the first album.
They’re retro-poppy.
by DumbAndNerdy on Sep 24, 2011 1:17 PM MDT up reply actions
listening now
so far it’s catchy, sounds like something you’d dance to.
Is anyone else thrilled with the return of music you can dance with women to?
Now I just need to learn how to dance!!!!1
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 1:35 PM MDT up reply actions
I like this kind of music.
I’m a groove guy. My favorite band is probably the Stone Roses. I also like a lot of a jazz and soul, and played in a soul band years ago. Anyway, they’re up there in my favorite groups of the last two or three years. So, I’m going to attempt to venture out of my cave to see them. Plus, tickets are like $15.
by DumbAndNerdy on Sep 24, 2011 1:43 PM MDT up reply actions
Yeah, I'd be in for this
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 1:43 PM MDT up reply actions
<3 Stone Roses
I’ll likely be down for this as well
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
I shared the playlist with you
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 1:53 PM MDT up reply actions
We're still over a month out,
but I’ll bring it up again once i get my plans straightened.
by DumbAndNerdy on Sep 24, 2011 2:05 PM MDT up reply actions
teach me how to dougie
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
see I figure I learn how to dance and then I can pick up women by knowing how to dance.
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 3:01 PM MDT up reply actions
Why do you have to learn to dance in order to pick up women?
Wouldn’t simple brute strength be more effective?
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
well yes
But they tend to appreciate it more when it’s part of an elaborate dance
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 3:03 PM MDT up reply actions
Holliday gets on base in the ninth
seeing his swing I suddenly really, really nostalg’d
Supporting efforts to create a genetic splice of Jonathan Herrera and Troy Tulowitzki since 2011.
The NewNugs 2011 - Officially back on the Bandwagon
I <3 Johnson
Cards just won, thanks to Holliday and mostly Marmol
Supporting efforts to create a genetic splice of Jonathan Herrera and Troy Tulowitzki since 2011.
The NewNugs 2011 - Officially back on the Bandwagon
I <3 Johnson
by SurfaceThought on Sep 24, 2011 1:41 PM MDT up reply actions
Young LF
Ellis 2B
Fowler CF
Nelson SS
Wigginton RF
Pacheco 1B
Kouzmanoff 3B
Iannetta C
Hammel P
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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if there was ever a day for Tracy to bat Iannetta cleanup…oh wait, his name isn’t Alfonzo
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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but he wouldn't be able to turn the lineup over
if he wasn’t hitting 8th.
LOL NELSON CLEANUP!?
Get outta here. And why is Wigginton playing OF. Wtf.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Sep 24, 2011 2:21 PM MDT up reply actions
y'all should be happy
all Tracy is doing is making a greater case for him to not be manager. I hope he plays Wigginton at shortstop and has Huston Street catch and bat leadoff tomorrow.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
/signs 4 year extension
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31g0YE61PLQ
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
no he's not
he’s doing whatever jackass thing he wants because he knows his job is safe for now.
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 2:30 PM MDT up reply actions
STOP BEING SO NEGATIVE AND MAKING ME SAD NOW
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
Fear the 69 OPS + cleanup hitter
I'm pretty disgusted right now!
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Sep 24, 2011 2:34 PM MDT up reply actions
Fear the manager playing with house money
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 2:35 PM MDT up reply actions
He's an OF.
Just like EY2
"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
True story: two of my tween-aged girl cousins (I have 4 tween-aged cousins) are huge fans of Ty Wigginton. He's their favorite player.
The writer formerly known as Jabberwocky
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Eschew Obfuscation!
I never said they were rational.
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good thing the 2B is hitting second and iannetta 8th
wouldn’t want to ruin a good thing
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
Hey, that strategy got us this far!
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
I really don't understand the calls for O'Dowd's head..
when Tracy makes obvious idiotic calls on a daily basis.
apologist.
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
Ohh I get a title?
I’m adding that one to my sig.
Colorado Rockies Players on Twitter
-- avid apologist --
it's from the o'dowd skirmish above
(not important enough to be a war yet)
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
Why are you apologizing for avid?
That’s some cool software
"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
good one, that’s the best nerd joke I’ve heard today!
Colorado Rockies Players on Twitter
-- odowd apologist --
Insert different manager (please)
And where are the Rockies in the standings?
I’m gonna say 4th, but with a slightly better record.
Hell I’ll fly to Houston and fire Tracy myself, but it’s not going to fix as many problems as many people seem to think it will.
by Northsider1964 on Sep 24, 2011 2:34 PM MDT up reply actions
I'll take improvement where I can get it, no matter how minimal.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Me too, Tracy should go
But along with a few others, both in and out of uniform.
by Northsider1964 on Sep 24, 2011 2:37 PM MDT up reply actions
Our defense is worse since he took over..
and that’s without Atkins at 3B. It just seems like he puts less focus in it and that’s only one area I can pick on.
Colorado Rockies Players on Twitter
-- odowd apologist --
i dont think that's right...
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
The defense was NEVER better than in 2009
After Tracy took over and put Stewart at 3B, Barmes at 2B and Carlos in LF. Then two of those guys swung and missed their way off the team, and someone decided that backing up Helton with a plumber and a WWE wrestler was a capital idea. I think Tracy understands the importance of defense, but has a roster littered with guys who can’t play it.
by Northsider1964 on Sep 24, 2011 4:17 PM MDT up reply actions
The plumber in RF or 3b.
hurts us a lot more than when he’s playing 1b.
"the extra 2%"
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
You're thinking too much like a fantasy owner or stats-geek
The primary reason managers matter is in how they inspire their players to play well, and hold them accountable when they don’t. It’s not in the lineups or the pinch hitting decisions.
by BostonTransplant on Sep 24, 2011 3:54 PM MDT up reply actions
is this real
Purple Row - For all of your Colorado Rockies-related needs
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 3:59 PM MDT up reply actions
joe maddon does not think so
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
I think I've come to the conclusion
that Tracy is in a couple of high-stakes, head-to-head fantasy baseball leagues and has decided to just stream pitchers who are facing the Rockies.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
same ones a-rod is in?
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
You're assuming that Jim Tracy is an effective fantasy baseball manager.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
by Muzia on Sep 24, 2011 2:28 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
maybe he's in one of those
shattered-expectations, razzball leagues…
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
The kind where the team with the least amount of points wins.
Colorado Rockies Players on Twitter
-- avid apologist --
And walks aren't a category
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
what's that second word in your post?
i can’t quite read it….
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
selfish
Purple Row - For all of your Colorado Rockies-related needs
Learn about Batting Metrics
Learn about Pitching Metrics
by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 2:32 PM MDT up reply actions
must....
not…..
have….
aneurysm….
Purple Row - For all of your Colorado Rockies-related needs
Learn about Batting Metrics
Learn about Pitching Metrics
by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 2:29 PM MDT up reply actions
Would you prefer having Anuery?
"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
/smh
Nelson cleanup
bahahahahahah….
"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Fire Jim Tracy.
Good god.
"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"
/it is a new beginning, right?
by The Lodo Magic Man on Sep 24, 2011 2:58 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
We are going for the high draft pick!
Colorado Offense: Making bad pitchers look like CY Young Winners.
by Colsportsfan on Sep 24, 2011 6:02 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Renck tweets re CarGo
Cargo said “probably done” for season. Will have bone bruise and inflamed tendons in right wrist examined at Stanford on Monday
/worries …a lot
"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
don't
he has all offseason to get better.
Purple Row - For all of your Colorado Rockies-related needs
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 24, 2011 3:11 PM MDT up reply actions
Seems like he should wait until February to have it looked at.
Worked for Manning
Colorado Rockies Players on Twitter
-- odowd apologist --
I just wonder if it's going to be a recurring problem for him :/
"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Second year in a row.
I’d say so.
Altar Boy in the Church of Santo Ubaldo
"...buffalo chicken is a fine anti-depressant, after all." -UZ
"... One order of buffalo wings, please..." -Yokel, after July 30, 2011
I'm no doctor but I've had both of those injuries
Neither one is a real threat to recur. Certainly not the bone bruise (that’s a traumatic injury caused by an impact). The tendonitis is something to watch, but is most likely associated with the traumatic injury. It’s not anything like shoulder, elbow, or knee tendonitis.
by BostonTransplant on Sep 24, 2011 3:52 PM MDT up reply actions
Had a broken wrist and surgery to remove my hamate bone.
I was back to normal activities in 6 weeks. Granted, his bone isn’t broke but maybe it is something to have checked out also. Mine started out as a bone bruise also. These things take time. Soon as the season is over, which it is already, he should get it going NOW. That way he has plenty of time to rehab and be back better than ever.
Thank you Cookie for many years of service. Hope all goes well with you in your continued career.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
Yeah, where were you?
Listening to conference or something?
Colorado Rockies Players on Twitter
-- odowd apologist --
Isn't there a women's conference tonight?
Hey do you still check your email?
Colorado Rockies Players on Twitter
-- odowd apologist --
Yeah, it's tonight.
I might just watch it later.
And yes, I check my e-mail. But I suck at responding to people.
Holly = not perfect?
Unpossible
Colorado Rockies Players on Twitter
-- odowd apologist --
by Charlie77 on Sep 24, 2011 4:16 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Ironically, I've not even been here :)
"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
nor casbah
we picked up some serious slack today
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
plops
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
Well its easy to say that now..
Do you have stats to back that up?
Colorado Rockies Players on Twitter
-- odowd apologist --
by Charlie77 on Sep 24, 2011 4:43 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
There's fancy stats and
and there is just annoying ultranew wtf stats.
Please elaborate.
"I think I speak for everyone in here when I say: It''s playoffs or bust"- Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
keep making shit up, teekalong.
see what happens.
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
be happy, because 2012 is coming.
Itsjiefg
Colorado Offense: Making bad pitchers look like CY Young Winners.
by Colsportsfan on Sep 24, 2011 6:08 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
OT: Not-so-fun football factoid
The CU Buffs, who are losing comfortably at Ohio State today, haven’t won a game outside the state of Colorado since the Rockies were making their World Series run.
Yikes!
That streak isn't nearly long enough yet.
The writer formerly known as Jabberwocky
READ and LEARN about the business of baseball at Purple Row Academy
Eschew Obfuscation!
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