Fall 2011 PuRPs Polling Thread
by Jeff Aberle on Sep 13, 2011 4:04 PM MDT
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All right Purple Row, it's once again time for the community to vote on their top 30 Purple Row Prospects (PuRPs).
For your reference, here is the Spring 2011 PuRPs list.
The rules are pretty simple:
- Your list must be at least 30 players long -- partial ballots will not be counted. If you're having trouble filling out your list, check out great resources like RockiesRoster.com and Baseball-Reference to find any stats you might need. Only the top 30 names will be counted on the ballot -- if the same player is listed multiple times on the ballot, the player ranked 31st (if applicable) will be moved up to fill the list. To reiterate: if there aren't at least 30 distinct players on the list, the ballot won't be counted. Additionally, Charlie77 compiled a Google Spreadsheet of the stats from every level for your convenient reference.
- Feel free to give a rationale about the placement of each prospect, but you aren't required to do so by any means.
- Polls will be open from now until the end of Friday, September 9th (MDT). As needed, I or another staff member will bump this post to the top to keep it on the front page. Once I tabulate the results, I will reveal the list five names at a time over the next week or so.
- Players are eligible for inclusion if they still retain their Rookie of the Year eligibility (less than 50 IP, 130 ABs, and/or less than 45 days on the active roster). Players on the spring list that have exhausted their ROY eligibility are Juan Nicasio (2), Rex Brothers (8), and Chris Nelson (13). In addition, PuRP 22 Bruce Billings was traded to Oakland and therefore is ineligible as well, so the minimum of new names on the PuRPs list is 4. Alex White is an interesting case, as he will almost definitely exhaust his rookie eligibility by the end of the year, but he has yet to do so as of now. He probably deserves one rotation on the ballot, so he will be eligible this once.
- Scoring will be in done like the AP poll in college football -- that is, a first place vote gets a player 30 points, a second place vote 29, and so forth on down to 1 point for a 30th place vote. It's important to note that until a player is named on at least 1/3 of all ballots cast that their vote totals will only receive partial credit (on a sliding scale which depends on the total number of ballots cast). This is to prevent individuals from manipulating the poll with "vanity" votes for marginal prospects.
- Finally, all ballots are weighted equally (so long as the players on them are named on enough ballots to qualify). Rox Girl's ballot is worth the same as mine or my dad's. The PuRPs list is a community ranking of Rockies prospects and we're proud of that fact. As a result, we ask that you put some quality effort into compiling your list.
- Remember, everyone has their own methodology of ranking their PuRPs. You may disagree with how one user ranks their PuRPs over your own, but it remains in your hands to maintain civil discourse when discussing said PuRPs. That's what makes this ranking so unique
With that, have fun with this list. I look forward to a lively (but civil, in accordance with Purple Row's rules and regulations) debate over each others' lists. Let's try to keep this thread focused on the lists, please.
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Escalona remains eligible for the time being. His 2010 service time all came in September, which doesn't count towards ROY eligibility.
Nicasio, Nelson and Brothers all do indeed lose their status though.
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
also just a reminder that Charlie Blackmon is still eligible
White and Blackmon will make the top dozen fun
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Sep 3, 2011 5:22 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
blackmon is still available?
sigh, now i have to change everything…
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
2012: get ready for White Pomz!
Yep
He was fairly close on service time and PA, but missed both
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Sep 3, 2011 6:36 PM MDT up reply actions
Hehe.
Blackmon’s been causing probelms for me too. He’s likely to be the biggest drop on my list, not because of anything he did, simply the way my perception of team need has changed this year. I ranked him VERY highly last year. He’s not going to crack the top 8 this time.
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Sep 3, 2011 6:38 PM MDT up reply actions
On that same note
Won’t Alex White still be ROY eligible as well, since he was only up for a few weeks with Cleveland, and about a week with us. Plus he only pitched 27 innings. So if September time doesn’t count, then he should still be good for next year, right?
Alanna Rizzo is my dream girl.
by Cargo's Ball Sack5 on Sep 3, 2011 5:56 PM MDT up reply actions
September only doesn't count towards the service time constraint.
Any innings pitched or at bats during September DO count. White has 30 days of service off of the DL and out of September, which is indeed not enough. But White is at 27 MLB innings pitched, and if he crosses 50 this year, he loses eligibility.
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Sep 3, 2011 6:12 PM MDT up reply actions
Ah okay
So with six or so starts left, he’s pretty much guaranteed to pitch more than 23 innings. Kind of sucks for him, to not really get a fair shake at the ROY award due to injury.
Alanna Rizzo is my dream girl.
by Cargo's Ball Sack5 on Sep 3, 2011 6:16 PM MDT up reply actions
I though service time in Sept didn't count, but IP or PA did...
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Sep 3, 2011 5:58 PM MDT up reply actions
They do.
Escalona doesn’t have anywhere near enough IP to qualify either.
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Sep 3, 2011 6:14 PM MDT up reply actions
I really don't think Escalona is a top 30 PuRP at this point
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Sep 3, 2011 11:59 PM MDT up reply actions
He's a young reliever who throws 97+
If Casey Weathers can garner votes, then Escalona deserves them even more.
by Charlie77 on Sep 4, 2011 10:42 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
He doesn't throw that hard.
I like Escalona, I just think there are better options.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Sep 4, 2011 10:50 AM MDT up reply actions
Escalona is a reasonable candidate at the bottom of a PuRPs list.
If anything, his value has gone up since last season with the departure of Bruce Billings.
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Sep 4, 2011 11:18 AM MDT up reply actions
Escalona touched 98 at a game I was at in Las Vegas..
and the gun seemed accurate, but according to Pitchfx his top speed in the majors was 96. So he can easily hit mid-90’s. It might be he was holding back in the majors since he was only used for long relief. In the minor league game I saw, he came in the 8th inning throwing gas and was effective.
3.55 FIP and a 3.18 ERA in the AAA ballpark
where EY2 probaby ran a marathon around the bases this year? Escalona is definitely on my top 30
~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~
I would like to do this
But, I’m just now starting to get to know some of the names in the minors. I would probably screw it up so therefore I’m going to stay away from it. Arenado, White, Pomeranz, Rosario, Wheeler, Field and Rutledge or at the to of my list. ’
That’s about all I know.
Prediction----> Cargo and Tulo will both have over 30 homers this year
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
I waited a while before I took part
Most do.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Sep 3, 2011 5:37 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
I did as well. Sat out until last year's.
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Sep 3, 2011 6:11 PM MDT up reply actions
Yep.
I’ve been around for over 2 years, and just now did my first PuRP ranking.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Sep 3, 2011 11:58 PM MDT up reply actions
Same here...
The last half of the list is really tough.
"My eyes! The goggles do nothing!" - Rainier Wolfcastle
by BittenAnkles on Sep 8, 2011 11:29 PM MDT up reply actions
Making a PurPs list is one of the best ways to learn about the Rockies system..
every year I learn more by participating in this semi-annual event then reading the articles. It also gives you players to follow in the pebble reports and look for in spring training games because you have that attachment to them.
I agree
I’ll probably never do a Purps. list, but it sure helps with player recognition of those coming up in the system. It broadens the scope of the organization.
In all things, it is better to hope than despair.
From our standpoint
Writing Pebble Reports helps, if only for name recognition. Writing Pebble Reports helped engender a loathing of Nick Schnaitmann for me!
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 9, 2011 8:44 AM MDT up reply actions
Pebble Reports got me started on wondering who these guys were etc.
The Purps list gets me more involved in who likes who and why. Some really good reasoning goes into the lists and they are challenged to defend them. I also like how it brings out the lurkers to participate.:)
In all things, it is better to hope than despair.
do we email them to someone...
or do all ballots get posted in this thread?
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
2012: get ready for White Pomz!
They're posted here, numbered 1-30.
You can most a list beyond 30 if you want, but only 1-30 will be counted. If you post someone that isn’t eligible, then that vote isn’t counted unless you amend it with an eligible one.
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Sep 3, 2011 6:24 PM MDT up reply actions
post*
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Sep 3, 2011 6:24 PM MDT up reply actions
ok, i'll bite first i guess
1. Drew Pomeranz
2. Nolan Arenado
3. Alex White
4. Tyler Matzek
5. Wilin Rosario
6. Kyle Parker
7. Chad Bettis
8. Christian Friedrich
9. Charlie Blackmon
10. Tyler Anderson
11. Trevor Story
12. Josh Rutledge
13. Peter Tago
14. Tim Wheeler
15. Edwar Cabrera
16. Thomas Field
17. Rosell Herrera
18. Rob Scahill
19. Ben Paulsen
20. Joe Gardner
21. Ben Paulsen
22. Jordan Pacheco
23. Cory Dickerson
24. Will Swaner
25. Kent Matthes
26. Mike Zuanich
27. Edgmer Escalona
28. Brad Emaus
29. Angelys Nina
30. Rafael Ortega
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
2012: get ready for White Pomz!
i just think that highly of him ;)
remove the second paulsen, bump everyone else up, and add the rejuvenated nick schnaittman as the new no.30
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
2012: get ready for White Pomz!
so it should look like this:
1. Drew Pomeranz
2. Nolan Arenado
3. Alex White
4. Tyler Matzek
5. Wilin Rosario
6. Kyle Parker
7. Chad Bettis
8. Christian Friedrich
9. Charlie Blackmon
10. Tyler Anderson
11. Trevor Story
12. Josh Rutledge
13. Peter Tago
14. Tim Wheeler
15. Edwar Cabrera
16. Thomas Field
17. Rosell Herrera
18. Rob Scahill
19. Ben Paulsen
20. Joe Gardner
21. Jordan Pacheco
22. Cory Dickerson
23. Will Swanner
24. Kent Mathes
25. Mike Zuanich
26. Edgmer Escalona
27. Brad Emaus
28. Angelys Nina
29. Rafael Ortega
30. Nick Schnaittman
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
2012: get ready for White Pomz!
1. Drew Pomeranz, LHP
2. Nolan Arenado, 3B
3. Tyler Matzek, LHP
4. Alex White, RHP
5. Wilin Rosario, C
6. Chad Bettis, RHP
7. Tim Wheeler, OF
8. Kyle Parker, OF
9. Tyler Anderson, LHP
10. Christian Friedrich, LHP
11. Charlie Blackmon, OF
12. Josh Rutledge, SS
13. Rafael Ortega, OF
14. Peter Tago, RHP
15. Trevor Story, SS
16. Rosell Herrera, SS
17. Will Swanner, C
18. Edwar Cabrera, LHP
19. Corey Dickerson, OF
20. Jordan Pacheco, C
21. Kent Matthes, OF
22. Tommy Field, 2B
23. Josh Slaats, RHP
24. Hector Gomez, SS
25. Joseph Gardner, RHP
26. Albert Campos, RHP
27. Cristhian Adames, SS
28. Jayson Aquino, LHP
29. Dillon Thomas, OF
30. Harold Riggins, 1B
31. Edgmer Escalona, RHP
32. Mike Zuanich, 1B
33. Ben Paulsen, 1B
34. Carl Thomore, OF
35. David Kandilas, OF
Pretty comfortable with 1-19. Picking and ordering 20-30 was the hardest part for me, as I think they’re fairly interchangeable. Overall I didn’t really have an exact method, as it’s a pretty good mix between actual production and future upside. But towards the bottom I generally gave the nod to the younger guys with the higher potential.
I really like our system right now. Our top 6-9 prospects are as good as any team’s in baseball, IMO. Great pitching talent/depth, quality middle infield depth, and a decent group of OF. The only issues I see are a lack of corner infielders, and very few guys with serious potential to become impact bats with the big club. But as long as Arenado and a few of our pitchers pan out, I think we’ll be in great shape in a couple years.
Alanna Rizzo is my dream girl.
by Cargo's Ball Sack5 on Sep 3, 2011 8:33 PM MDT reply actions
i enjoy our middle rankings of middle infielders
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
2012: get ready for White Pomz!
It seemed like I just kept coming up with them
it was an odd feeling to be having all these positive feelings about the future of the 2B position for this franchise…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Sep 6, 2011 10:53 PM MDT up reply actions
so guess who doesn't remember posting that
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
2012: get ready for White Pomz!
Here is Mine
1) Drew Pomeranz – LHP
2) Nolan Arenado – 3B
3) Wilin Rosario – C
4) Tyler Matzek – LHP
5) Alex White – RHP
6) Chad Bettis – RHP
7) Tim Wheeler – OF
8) Kyle Parker – OF
9) Tyler Anderson – LHP
10) Josh Rutledge – MI
11) Charlie Blackmon – OF
12) Christian Friedrich – LHP
13) Corey Dickerson – OF
14) Joe Gardner – RHP
15) Peter Tago – RHP
16) Rafael Ortega – OF
17) Rosell Herrera – SS
18) Trevor Story – SS
19) Edwar Cabrera – LHP
20) Ben Paulson – 1b
21) Kent Matthes – OF
22) Hector Gomez – MIF
23) Thomas Field – MIF
24) Wil Swanner – C
25) Josh Slaats – RHP
26) Albert Campos – RHP
27) Carl Thormore – OF
28) Harold Riggins – 1b
29) Jordan Pacheco – C
30) Nick Schnaitmann – RHP
It's Jim Tracy's Fault.
Nick Schnaitmann is the devil, how dare you put him on your list
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 4, 2011 2:01 AM MDT up reply actions
Well ya
but I can’t ignore what he’s been doing the past couple of months, and its only at slot 30. I don’t expect him to be there come spring.
It's Jim Tracy's Fault.
Someone said Schnaitmann was the worst pitcher he's ever seen...
I believe it was Muzia
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Sep 4, 2011 8:43 PM MDT up reply actions
It was.
Schnaitmann has become somewhat of a joke around here. That said, people who value youth very highly in their PuRPs listings are probably attracted to him for just that reason.
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Sep 4, 2011 9:02 PM MDT up reply actions
I tend to value Muzia's opinion a lot on here
too, but I just can’t ignore what Schnaitmann has done this year in A ball.
Long term, he’s not a good prospect, and quite frankly, once you get past 20 on my list, the chances of the players becoming a major league starting caliber player are slim, but placing Schnaitmann at 30 is a way to recognize what he has done this year, while still stating that he is not much of a prospect.
It's Jim Tracy's Fault.
He's been Matzek's dark shadow this season..
Schnaitmann has actually had a better season in Asheville than Matzek
The Joke: 2.70 ERA since returning to Asheville
Matzek: 2.78 ERA since fixing his mechanics
Reason #718457 why you shouldn't trust standard stats in minor league ball
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
First PuRP ranking for me.
1. Drew Pomeranz
2. Nolan Arenado
3. Tyler Matzek
4. Chad Bettis
5. Alex White
6. Wilin Rosario
7. Kyle Parker
8. Tim Wheeler
9. Tyler Anderson
10. Peter Tago
11. Charlie Blackmon
12. Trevor Story
13. Josh Rutledge
14. Christian Friedrich
15. Edwar Cabrera
16. Corey Dickerson
17. Joe Gardner
18. Rafael Ortega
19. Rosell Herrera
20. Will Swanner
21. Albert Campos
22. Thomas Field
23. Carl Thomore
24. Jordan Pacheco
25. Cristhian Adames
26. Jayson Aquino
27. Kent Matthes
28. Coty Woods
29. Ben Paulsen
30. Angelys Ninas
31. Casey Weathers
32. Leuris Gomez
33. Samuel Mendes
34. Johendi Jiminian
35. Dan Houston
@CentralCaliRox
Leuris Gomez is headed for MiLB Free Agency in a few weeks,
I know he doesn’t really count since you put him below 30, but I thought I’d point that out.
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Sep 4, 2011 12:13 AM MDT up reply actions
ooh I did not know that, thanks.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Sep 4, 2011 8:45 AM MDT via iPhone app up reply actions
fyi Sam Mendes was recently promoted to Tri Cities
Its interesting that you would rank Story ahead of Rutledge, with the season Josh is having. What made you choose the younger SS?
by Charlie77 on Sep 4, 2011 11:00 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Sam Mendes is a filmmaker. :D
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Sep 4, 2011 11:19 AM MDT up reply actions
A couple of things.
Story’s age is one thing. He also possesses the potential to have more power than Rutledge as he develops.
Obviously, Rutledge is more polished than Story but Is 4 years older. As a prospect looking toward to the future, i think Story will make a bigger MLB impact.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Sep 4, 2011 11:24 AM MDT via iPhone app up reply actions
Story (and Herrera) are going to be ahead of Rutledge on my list as well
for all the reasons you described. better tools basically.
Check out my blog about undergraduate science research
by black_knight101 on Sep 4, 2011 12:45 PM MDT up reply actions
same reason why I have Matzek at #3
Better raw stuff than the other pitchers.. Maybe even better than Pomeranz’s.
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Sep 4, 2011 1:15 PM MDT via iPhone app up reply actions
I'd argue Matzek has better stuff than Pomeranz's
he could easily be #1 again next season.
Check out my blog about undergraduate science research
by black_knight101 on Sep 4, 2011 1:19 PM MDT up reply actions
Pomeranz***
Check out my blog about undergraduate science research
by black_knight101 on Sep 4, 2011 1:21 PM MDT up reply actions
my first, too!
high fives
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
2012: get ready for White Pomz!
Is there anyone at TriCities who deserves to be a PurP?
They have a really good pitching staff that is catching my eye. Guys like Bergman, Bennigson, Gagnon, Gonzalez all have ERAs near 2.5 with good SO/BB ratios.
They have a lefty reliever named Kenneth Roberts with a 5.57 ratio, 0.853 WHIP and 1.86 ERA!
by Charlie77 on Sep 4, 2011 1:16 PM MDT via mobile reply actions
Featherston and Casteel are both decent options
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Tri-City wasn't exactly prospect heavy this year, but they were also a successful team.
I think an argument could probably be made for Gagnon, in particular, in that crapshoot lower 20s, but I don’t have him anywhere near there personally. Bennigson’s never really taken off, and Bergman and Gonzalez’ success this season has definitely caught my attention, but I’m not ready to put them on this list.
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Sep 4, 2011 9:04 PM MDT up reply actions
Alright, here it goes
1. Drew Pomeranz
2. Nolan Arenado
3. Wilin Rosario
4. Alex White
5. Tyler Matzek
6. Chad Bettis
7. Kyle Parker
8. Trevor Story
9. Rosell Herrera
10. Tim Wheeler
11. Tyler Anderson
12. Charlie Blackmon
13. Christian Friedrich
14. Peter Tago
15. Rafael Ortega
16. Josh Rutledge
17. Joe Gardner
18. Edwar Cabrera
19. Will Swanner
20. Thomas Field
21. Jordan Pacheco
22. Hector Gomez
23. Albert Campos
24. Corey Dickerson
25. Cristhian Adames
26. Rob Scahill
27. Ben Paulsen
28. Kent Matthes
29. Josh Slaats
30. Casey Weathers
shout out to Johendi Jiminian, who probably is a better prospect than Casey Weathers but is still hanging out in the DSL and I can’t rank comfortably in the PuRPs.
Also, a lot of these players a very close and it was a tough call on pretty much everyone outside of my top 6.
Also, I probably have Story and Herrera ranked higher than anybody here, but I’m OK with that. It was a toss up for me between the two. As you might be able to tell from my list, I value MLB-readiness more for pitchers than for position players.
Finally, I want to say that I am more impressed with Kyle Parker’s season than my list probably shows. I’m guessing that he is probably really worn out after playing football last season, yet he still had a good showing. It’s pretty much speculation which is why I didn’t rank him higher (well, and the guys ahead of him are very good prospects anyway). His lack of a severe platoon split is refreshing as well.
Check out my blog about undergraduate science research
Good list.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
thanks...I imagine it would be similar to yours since we seem to agree on a lot of prospects
Check out my blog about undergraduate science research
by black_knight101 on Sep 4, 2011 3:49 PM MDT up reply actions
I was surprised at how low Herrera was placed on the other ballots posted above.
He seems to get more rave reviews than any position player in the system outside of Arenado, certainly in terms of first impressions. Remarks such as ‘stood out head and shoulders above every other player in the game’ (or something like that), certainly have got my attention.
Not to mention he sounds extremely ‘toolsy’, very raw still, and has a big frame to grow into. He also is having to adjust to playing in a different country.
From everything I have read about him this season, and his statistical results so far, I expect he will be in my top 10.
yes exactly
It will be really interesting to see where he ends up in terms of a position, and how much he will grow into his frame.. It makes it hard to gauge where he belongs on the list.
Check out my blog about undergraduate science research
by black_knight101 on Sep 4, 2011 3:53 PM MDT up reply actions
I blame myself for being too lazy to post a personal scouting report
The only thing the holds me back on him at all is his potential to grow physically, enough to move him off short, thereby necessitating his tools needing o manifest more offensively.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Sep 4, 2011 5:39 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
He has the athleticism to play at a number of positions..
Could probably even place CF don’t you think?
by Charlie77 on Sep 4, 2011 6:23 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
The lower down they are in the system, the harder it is (for me, at least) to evaluate them.
I rely very much on those who are able to see these players first hand, but also probably punish them (inadvertently, mind you) for not being close to MLB ready at no faulty of their own. That said, I’m sold on Herrera as an upper level prospect. Some say he’s the best positional prospect in the system, and I’m not ready to put him up THAT high yet.
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"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Sep 4, 2011 9:06 PM MDT up reply actions
yeah. for me, Herrera was the hardest to place
I think we’ll know a lot more after next season.
Check out my blog about undergraduate science research
by black_knight101 on Sep 4, 2011 9:47 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Herrera ultimately ended up rather easy for me to place.
He’s been touted almost across the board as a top tier prospect, potentially even a #1 prospect in his future, but is also the least accurately projectable at this point due to clutter in the lower levels as well as a lot of future development for nearly every aspect of his playing style. Put those two together, he goes right at the very bottom of my top tier.
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Sep 4, 2011 9:53 PM MDT up reply actions
that's basically where he ended up for me
but I had a hard time putting him there. I made the assumption that he would end up in a corner OF position with a small chance of staying at SS and (more likely) 3B. I don’t know if this is the right assumption, but I think it’s fair to be somewhat pessimistic about his position, because if you dream about him growing into his frame and developing his bat, you have to put him in a position that fits that dream.
That puts him in direct comparison with Parker, Wheeler, and Blackmon for this list as a corner OF bat. I had no idea where to put him among those prospects, since he might have the best bat out of all of them but is only in the Pioneer League. There’s also the question of defense, but as he seems to be a toolsy player, I’d imagine he’d be up there with Blackmon as far as that goes. I put him at #8, but I would have honestly been happy with him anywhere from #6 all the way to #15, near Ortega.
I had little trouble putting Story where I did, but that’s a topic for another comment.
Check out my blog about undergraduate science research
by black_knight101 on Sep 5, 2011 9:54 AM MDT up reply actions
He won't stay at SS because of Tulo, you think?
That shouldn’t lower his value too much as he’ll be more liekly to become a valuable trade chip.
For Herrera, more likely because he'll be too big to stick at short
Which means his trade value won’t be as high
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Sep 6, 2011 1:19 PM MDT up reply actions
I would really rather White and Chuck are excluded from the list
I consider that both of them have actually made the bigs and aren’t really prospects any more. (Although I conceed Chuck could open next season at AAA if he gets beat out by Wheeler, or for some reason Spilly returns)
I’d rather include players on my list that are still battling to make it to the bigs and are truly ‘prospects’. Would it be terribly frowned upon not to have White and Blackmon on my list?
you can certainly do as you please
There has to be a hard cut off somewhere, and rookie eligibility is the fairest, easiest place to put it.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Sep 4, 2011 5:40 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
I'm considering this as well..
Its pretty obvious White isn’t going back to the minors and it would make room for some fringe younger guys who haven’t had many opportunities yet, like a Thomore, or Kandilas.
by Charlie77 on Sep 4, 2011 6:21 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
My turn
As always, on-field performance weighted higher than draft hype. I choose not to include (in top 30 anyway) draft picks who have not played at all — to wit, Tyler Anderson. I have no idea where to rank those types, and after pitcher draft busts of recent years, I find it hard to rank anyone based on unknown scouts’ opinions. They’ve been wrong too often.
1. Pomeranz
2. Wheeler
3. Arenado
4. Bettis
5. White (not fair to leave him off, really)
6. Parker
7. E. Cabrera
8. Blackmon
9. Rutledge
10.. Pacheco
11. Rosario
12. R. Herrera
13. Field
14. C. Woods (had a good year )
15. Matthes (ditto)
16. Matzek (had a good year and a bad year, all in the same year)
17. D. Thomas (extra points for name)
18. T. Story
19. Dickerson
20. Bergman
21. R. Ortega
22. Angelys Nina (aka The Angel Ninja … again extra points for name)
23. Kandilas
24. Dodson
25. Mesa (injury-plagued year, still like his stats from prior healthier years)
26.. Houston
27. Beerer (for the effort & just to put a Skysock on the list)
28. Kenneth Roberts (my sleeper pick. 0.85 WHIP and 39 K’s in 27 IP are not
to be sneezed at, at any level. He’s at Tri-City.
29. Tanos (OBP > .400. So there.)
30. Friedrich (just for old times’ sake)
31. Nelson Gonzalez (another Tri-City sleeper 7-0 record, 1.71 ERA, 1;00 WHIP, 49 K’s in 58 IP)
32. T. Anderson (just in case two others drop off the list
2011 Rockies -- what the hell?
extra points for name?
Lol..
@CentralCaliRox
by CentralCaliRox on Sep 4, 2011 8:30 PM MDT via iPhone app up reply actions
I nearly put Dillon Thomas on my list..
even though I only saw one AB of his this year. He’s young, lefty and hits the ball hard. He was spraying foul balls with authority after coming off the bench cold, even sending a lady to the hospital. I think he’s being protected a little bit, but that .328 AVG is pretty sexy. Definitely a sleeper I’m keeping an eye on.
Beerer is another player who is headed off for MiLB free agency at the end of the season.
Well, unless he gets a September callup and survives on the 40 man until Spring Training. That said, I find it very hard to rank players who are probably not going to be with the team for another game on this list. That’s not to say you can’t. It’s just something to be aware of.
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by Greg Stanwood on Sep 4, 2011 9:09 PM MDT up reply actions
rosario all the way down to 11?
outperformed by so many?
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Just disappointed in the year he had offensively
I expected better at AA
2011 Rockies -- what the hell?
But Pacheco above him at 10?
Was that symbolic or do you truly think Pacheco>Rosario.
For the organization’s sake, I hope you’re way wrong.
by blooming rock on Sep 6, 2011 2:57 PM MDT up reply actions
I'm also curious about this
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 7, 2011 2:04 PM MDT up reply actions
Well if we look at their OPS..
Pacheco 1.000 > Rosario .250
/Also leads in Alanna Grabs (Pacheco-1, Rosario-0)
Flip a coin, really
Pacheco seems like a more consistent hitter, with likely a better OBP in the Majors. Rosario has better power that may or may not carry over to the Majors.
I don’t know enough about their relative defensive skills to differentiate them on that category.
If either can hit >.250 with an OBP of > .330 with league-average defense as a catcher, that will be fine. But I don’t think either is All-Star material, based on their 2011 seasons, and that’s very disappointing.
2011 Rockies -- what the hell?
I think the issue is that you rated Rosario so low after a disappointing season
but Pacheco above him after a disastrously bad season.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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that's more the question mark for me
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 8, 2011 2:12 PM MDT up reply actions
AWWW YEAHH LET’S DO THIS
1. Drew Pomeranz
2. Wilin Rosario
3. Tyler Matzek
4. Alex White
5. Chad Bettis
6. Nolan Arenado
7. Tim Wheeler
8. Charlie Blackmon
9. Kyle Parker
10. Josh Rutledge
11. Trevor Story
12. Rosell Herrera
13. Peter Tago
14. Edwar Cabrera
15. Tyler Anderson
16. Corey Dickerson
17. Christian Friedrich
18. Rafael Ortega
19. Thomas Field
20. Kent Matthes
21. Will Swanner
22. Joe Gardner
23. Alberto Campos
24. Sam Mende
25. David Kandilas
26. Mike Zuanich
27. Carl Thomore
28. Jordan Pacheco
29. Edgmer Escalona
30. Hector Gomez
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
No Brett Tanos.
Shocker.
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by Greg Stanwood on Sep 4, 2011 9:14 PM MDT up reply actions
he was one of the final cuts
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Sep 4, 2011 9:36 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
How do you know Tanos was a final cut for Franchise26's list?
by Britbronco22 on Sep 5, 2011 10:51 AM MDT up reply actions
It was a joke.
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by Greg Stanwood on Sep 5, 2011 11:08 AM MDT up reply actions
there's a bit of history there
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 5, 2011 11:10 AM MDT up reply actions
Ok thanks
I’ve been struggling to grasp which Tanos comments are sarcastic
by Britbronco22 on Sep 5, 2011 11:11 AM MDT up reply actions
all of them
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 5, 2011 11:12 AM MDT up reply actions
Ok so what am I missing with Tanos?
Although he is old for his level (22 at A), a .400 OBP and a .851 OPS seem good enough to deserve inclusion in my rankings.
What is the history?
Actually, F26 tweeted that he was considering placing him in the bottom of his list
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Sep 6, 2011 1:20 PM MDT up reply actions
I also gave Maris a hard time about that one
but Tanos was in the last half dozen or so cuts from my list.
I seriously doubt he’s an MLB prospect, but he had a very nice year in A ball this year….
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
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by Junction Rox on Sep 6, 2011 11:01 PM MDT up reply actions
I put him at 29 this time
a serious ranking, as opposed to my deliberately-too-high “protest ranking” last time. The protest was against too-high rankings based on draft hype alone, but that point seemed to get lost along the way.
No protest rankings this time from me.
2011 Rockies -- what the hell?
Tim Wheeler is a perfect example of why "draft hype" should be considered
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Sep 8, 2011 12:29 PM MDT up reply actions
I'm really happy that people's lists look like the one I've been working on since six weeks ago or so.
Sometimes I definitely end up far away from the people who know a lot more than me in this area, and that can be disappointing.
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Showtime:
Fall 2011
1. Nolan Arenado 20, 3B, Mod,
2. Drew Pomeranz 22, SP, Tul
3. Chad Bettis 22, SP, Mod,
4. Kyle Parker 21, OF, Ash,
5. Tim Wheeler 23, CF, Tul,
6. Willin Rosario 22, C, Tul,
7. Edwar Cabrera 23, SP, Mod
8. Tyler Matzek 20, SP, Ash
9. Josh Rutledge 22, SS, Mod
10. Kent Matthes 24, OF, Mod
11. Rafael Ortega 20, CF, Ash
12. Tyler Anderson 21, SP
13. Peter Tago 18, SP, Ash
14. Christian Friedrich 23, SP, Tul
15. Cory Dickerson 22, OF, Ash
16. Jordan Pacheco 25, C, CSP
17. Mike Zuanich 24, 1B, Tul,
18. Ben Paulsen 23, 1B, Tul,
19. Chandler Laurent 23, OF, Ash
20. Trevor Story 18, SS, Cas
21. Rosell Herrera 18, SS, Cas
22. William Swanner 19, C, Cas
23. Angelys Nina 22, 2B, Mod
24. Thomas Field 24, IF, Tul
25. Edgmer Escalona 24, RP, CSP
26. Kurt Yacko 23, RP, Mod
27. Nelson Gonzalez 21, P, Tri
28. Sam Mende 21, 3B, Tri
29. David Kandilas 20, CF, Cas
30. Harold Riggins 21, 1B, Cas
* * *
31. Scott Beerer 28, OF, CSP
32. Albert Campos 20, SP, Ash
33. Parker Frazier 22, SP, Mod
34. Carl Thomore 18, RF, Cas
35. Hector Gomez 23, IF, Tul,
interesting placement of wheeler
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
2012: get ready for White Pomz!
More a testament of how Rosario has disappointed me this year.
Wheeler plays a premium position and hit 30+ HRs. While some people may project him as a corner OF, it doesn’t change the fact that he plays cf now.
by Charlie77 on Sep 5, 2011 12:53 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Slaats, Campos, Frazier, Scahill are all sad they were beat out by two relievers.
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Actually three..
Because Nelson Gonzalez has been relieving too and I couldn’t ignore his SO/BB.
While I would never place them in the top of my list I still see some value in Relievers who have closer potential. For instance who has helped the Rockies more this year, Christian Friedrich or Rex Brothers?
by Charlie77 on Sep 5, 2011 12:49 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
I want to clarify on my list..
I chose Kyle Parker #1 in the spring, and he hasn’t done anything to sway my feelings about him. However, Nolan Arenado has taken a huge step forward this season. I also was impressed by Chad Bettis who will be in the majors at some point next year, hopefully early, and has leapfrogged Parker with his strong season at a hitter friendly Cal League. Also the acquisition of Drew Pomeranz has given us a lefty that we keep hoping Tyler Matzek will turn into. Drew has Strasmaused AA and looks prepared to dominate in the majors. So while Parker remains a strong prospect, I haven’t demoted him, he’s been passed by acquisitions and shining stars.
Had my list finalized at 8, now finalized at 18.
12 more to resolve….
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RoxHead checks in:
1. Wilin Rosario, C
2. Drew Pomeranz, LHP
3. Charlie Blackmon, OF
4. Kyle Parker, OF
5. Alex White, RHP
6. Nolan Arenado, 3B
7. Christian Friedrich, LHP
8. Tyler Anderson, LHP
9. Tim Wheeler, OF
10. Tyler Matzek, LHP
11. Jordan Pacheco, C
12. Chad Bettis, RHP
13. Jayson Aquino, LHP
14. Dan Houston, RHP
15. Kent Matthes, OF
16. Casey Weathers, RHP
17. Ben Paulsen, 1B
18. Hector Gomez, INF
19. Jefri Hernandez, RHP
20. Trevor Story, SS
21. Rafael Ortega, OF
22. Peter Tago, RHP
23. Josh Rutledge, SS
24. Parker Frazier, RHP
25. Edgmer Escalona, RHP
26. Michael Paulk, 1B
27. Michael Zuanich, 1B
28. Thomas Field, INF
29. Rossmel Herrera, SS
30. Corey Dickerson, OF
—
30. Stephen Dodson, RHP
31. Rob Scahill, RHP
Any reason you left off Cabrera and Swanner?
Your high ranking of Blacmon has me scratching my head too, not to mention Aquino and Weathers??
by Britbronco22 on Sep 5, 2011 11:00 AM MDT up reply actions
ProspectBot rankings
This is what my spreadsheet spits out, no subjective inputs here whatsoever:
1. Drew Pomeranz, SP
2. Nolan Arenado, 3B
3. Chad Bettis, SP
4. Josh Rutledge, SS
5. Tim Wheeler, CF
6. Wilin Rosario, C
7. Tyler Anderson, SP
8. Edwar Cabrera, SP
9. Trevor Story, SS
10. Tyler Matzek, SP
11. Rafael Ortega, CF
12. Charlie Blackmon, CF
13. Brad Emaus, 2B
14. Corey Dickerson, LF
15. Cristhian Adames, SS
16. Peter Tago, SP
17. Will Swanner, C
18. Rosell Herrera, SS
19. Ryan Casteel, C
20. Christian Friedrich, SP
21. Kyle Parker, RF
22. Samuel Mende, SS
23. Edgmer Escalona, RP
24. Hector Gomez, SS
25. Thomas Field, 2B
26. Albert Campos, SP
27. Kent Matthes, LF
28. Dillon Thomas, LF
29. David Kandilas, RF
30. Mike Zuanich, 1B
No Alex White because he’ll exhaust his rookie eligibility by the end of the season… if I were to include him, he’d rank #2, albeit a lot closer to Arenado than to Pomeranz.
Rutledge is having a special season. A lot of it is BABIP-driven, but still, you don’t see shortstops hit .350 very often.
I have to repeat my standard complaint about our system here: our prospects are too old. The top five guys on the list are the only ones who are putting up above-average numbers against age-appropriate competition in a full-season league. ProspectBot hates Kyle Parker… for a corner outfielder playing in a ridiculous hitter’s park against younger competition, his numbers just aren’t the least bit impressive. Kent Matthes is a similar case, although his ranking is also dragged down by his terrible numbers in 2009-10.
Friedrich looks hopeless to me at this point. 24 years old, struggling in AA with a mediocre K rate… put a fork in him.
I have our system ranked 21st overall now, which while still not good, is a lot better than it was at the start of the year (thanks in large part to the addition of Pomeranz, obviously).
"no subjective inputs here whatsoever:"
Whatever criteria you use for your calculation would obviously be subjective, though. I assume you mean you distanced yourself from the results, but not from the process.
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by Greg Stanwood on Sep 5, 2011 1:18 AM MDT up reply actions
this is really interesting. cool way of ranking prospects.
one thing I noticed is that your list missed out on Joe Gardner (who admittedly was probably too low in my rankings). When simply using the ERA and K/BB standards you described, his season certainly doesn’t look outstanding. However, he has an elite GB% and has throughout his career in the minors, which is what makes him a very solid prospect. Put him with Tulo and one of our other good defensive MI prospects and his ERA looks a lot better.
I wonder if GB% is a wrinkle that you could add to your algorithm? It might be something that you only use to flag elite GB pitchers.
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by black_knight101 on Sep 5, 2011 9:40 AM MDT up reply actions
Gardner
First, I don’t look at ERA. I look at FIP and ERC (component ERA), both of which include HR, so Gardner’s GB tendencies should show up there.
Gardner’s problem is that his control is nowhere near good enough to make up for his terrible strikeout rate. We’re talking about a guy whose K/(BB+HBP) is barely over 1. Put him in the big leagues and he’ll walk 50% more guys than he strikes out, at a minimum. No groundball rate can make up for that. If he was young, ProspectBot might see something in him, but as is, he’s a 23-year-old with lousy peripherals and lousy results in Double-A. Based on the numbers, he’s not a prospect.
Jhoulys Chacin disagrees with you.
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as does Livan Hernandez
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 5, 2011 11:13 AM MDT up reply actions
Chacin?
Chacin is the same age as Gardner. He had an excellent season in AA at age 21. Gardner is well below average in AA at age 23. I fail to see how those two are even remotely comparable.
I was talking about extreme GB rates
and Gardner has an extremely good GB rate. These type of guys get underrated by stats in the Minors because of the level of defenses behind them. I think Gardner is a very solid pitching prospect with quality stuff.
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Underrated because of defense?
Hardly. Gardner’s BABIP this year is average. Last year, his BABIP was great. He’s not losing any points there. And bad defense doesn’t explain away his marginal control and inability to strike anyone out.
his control has actually been great during his stay in tulsa, 1.98 BB/9
but what’s very concerning is a K/9 of 5.5, a BABIP of .261, and a LOB rate of 58%… add those together and i don’t like it one bit
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I wouldn't be at all concerned about that BABIP
as an elite GB pitcher, his BABIP should be low. The major area of concern is the walks, which is a legit concern. But when you remember that this is only his 2nd year in pro ball, and he’s in AA…it doesn’t seem so bad.
by black_knight101 on Sep 5, 2011 12:18 PM MDT up reply actions
the BABIP by itself isn't concerning
what’s concerning is the low BABIP and low LOB% together
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I'll take a 71% GB rate any day of the week.
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#21 overall for a system that has 5-7 potential Top 100 Prospects on it?
One known for its depth?
Huh.
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5-7 top 100 guys?
No chance. Pomeranz and Arenado are automatic, but I don’t see anyone else who belongs in the top 100. Bettis is having an excellent season, but he’s 22 in High-A… that’s not bad, but top 100 prospects tend to be either young for their league or even more dominant than Bettis has been. Rosario ought to have played his way off everyone’s list by now. Wheeler might be a top 100 guy if we ignore what he did prior to 2011, but we can’t do that. Matzek is a lottery ticket at this point, not top 100 material. I don’t think you’ll see Anderson in anyone’s top 100, either.
Pomeranz
Arenado
Rosario
Wheeler
Bettis
White (if eligible)
Matzek
all have decent shots at making top lists after this season.
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Okay, let's look at a couple of these guys.
First Rosario. ProspectBot ranks him behind the following catchers:
Montero, Jesus
Mesoraco, Devin
Hedges, Austin
Sanchez, Gary
Norris, Derek
D’Arnaud, Travis
Lavarnway, Ryan
Grandal, Yasmani
Swihart, Blake
Chen, Chun
Perez, Salvador
Joseph, Tommy
Sanchez, Hector
Statistically, he’s not better than any of those guys. Maybe he’s better than his numbers, maybe he’s the 9th-best catching prospect in the game instead of the 14th-best… that makes him a fringe top-100 guy. And that’s being generous.
Next, Bettis. ProspectBot ranks Bettis #142 overall. Other pitchers ranked in the same general area (some slightly above him, some slightly below) include David Holmberg, John Lamb, Deck McGuire, and Patrick Corbin, as well as 2011 draftees Jed Bradley, Alex Meyer, and Robert Stephenson. Is Bettis a tier above those guys? I don’t see how.
does prospectbot account for bettis cruising at 96?
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
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This is PBot's big blind spot
No scouting information. I certainly acknowledge that weakness.
But what’s dangerous is just saying “wow, Bettis is putting up great numbers, throwing 96, he has to be a top 100 guy.” The scouting information is great, but it needs to be contextualized. How does Bettis’ stuff compare to that of the guys who I identified as being in his statistical “peer group”? Is he clearly a notch above? If so, then maybe there’s something there… but it’s hard to quibble with the rankings until you answer that question.
hard?
or extremely easy to take issue with a system that has literally zero reliance on any scouting at all?
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
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All I'm saying is...
Scouting information is of limited use unless it’s systematized and put in context.
but you're implying that it's wrong of us to question a pure statistical analysis of prospects
when in fact it should be questioned extra
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
2012: get ready for White Pomz!
I'm not saying that PBot can't be criticized
Far from it. PBot is a starting point, not the be-all, end-all.
But what you can’t do is just say “Bettis throws 96, so he should be ranked higher than that.” The implicit argument there would be that Bettis’ stuff is better than his results (because the results are what’s driving his ranking). Is that true? Maybe, but I’m skeptical… his results have been good enough that it’s hard to believe he’s been underachieving. If you could demonstrate that most California League pitchers with Bettis’ stuff and command get better results than he does, then you’d have something really interesting and worthy of consideration. But giving him extra credit for something, when you don’t really know how that something compares to the competition, is fraught with problems. The advantage of the pure statistical system is that it evaluates everyone according to the exact same criteria and is therefore not subject to the inconsistencies that plague human thought in general.
Logic to me dictates that if Bettis (96) is comparable with RivalPitcher (93)
Then RivalPitcher must be in some way other than velocity a better pitcher than Bettis.
Thus the dangers of using a purely statistical model for evaluating minor league talent
without any form of context, human evaluation, or multi-year models.
You have a right to your system, but why should I trust ProspectBot over the multiple scouts who say Rosario is one of the top two or three catching prospects in the game? Why should I trust ProspectBot over someone like David OhNo who gets to see him play many times a year? Why should I trust ProspectBot over my own eyes, who can watch Rosario play on Milb.tv almost on a nightly basis?
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Because your eyes aren't able to synthesize information well enough.
And I don’t mean that as an insult. Mine aren’t either.
I would say because as good as David OhNo and yoruself are
at prospect evaluation, your still not trained professional scouts.
Numbers don’t lie
It's Jim Tracy's Fault.
so tulo during may really was that bad?
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If you look at just the Small Sample Size of May
then yes, but if you looked over the course of his career, as well as some more advance stats, you could correctly project that Tulo will turn things around and continue to be the best player in baseball.
It's Jim Tracy's Fault.
Holliday is an example
of why its dangerous to use only one system over the other.
It's Jim Tracy's Fault.
yes, most of us here would advocate using both performance numbers and scouting reports.
but Holliday is proof that numbers in the minors do in fact lie.
by black_knight101 on Sep 5, 2011 11:58 AM MDT up reply actions
right, of course
The important thing is that each player is assessed according to exactly the same criteria, so there’s no inconsistency.
Gotcha.
Any chance you can share any insight into that process, or do you want to keep your algorithms to yourself?
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by Greg Stanwood on Sep 5, 2011 1:59 AM MDT up reply actions
I've discussed the ProspectBot here before, but here's the quick overview:
Basically, the rankings are a function of:
1) The player’s demonstrated current ability level (everything is park- and league-adjusted, of course)
2) Age
3) Signing bonus (used as a baseline to regress toward – the less pro experience a player has, the more heavily he gets regressed toward the level indicated by his signing bonus)
That’s the core of the system. Beyond that, there are just a few things added in to try to identify high-ceiling or low-ceiling players. For pitchers:
1) Relative strength of K and BB rates (a guy with a good K rate and a bad BB rate, like Matzek, has more potential than a guy with the opposite profile, like Albert Campos).
2) Pitchers’ BB rates are also used as a proxy for how likely they are to end up in the bullpen. This is sort of the flip side of point #1 above; Matzek has loads of potential, but the chances of him (or, rather, the chances of a nameless pitcher with his statistical profile) throwing enough strikes to go 5-6 innings on a regular basis are fairly small.
3) Durability – pitchers are expected to work certain numbers of innings at certain ages, and if they don’t reach those numbers, PBot flags them as fragile.
4) Age relative to league – obviously, if an organization doesn’t think enough of a player to have him facing age-appropriate competition, that’s a good indicator that the player doesn’t have much of a ceiling.
For hitters:
1) Short hitters with no power are penalized, because having no power and no obvious potential to develop power is, well, not a good thing.
2) Hitters are penalized for deriving an unusually high or low percentage of their value from walks. A low-BB guy isn’t very likely to develop enough patience to get on base at a reasonable rate in MLB; a guy who relies too heavily on drawing walks probably doesn’t have much upside (my standard example for this is Padres prospect Logan Forsythe).
3) Age relative to league – see above.
The ProspectBot will certainly miss on individual players. That’s inevitable. But I’ve spent loads of time refining it over the years so that no particular group of players – older prospects, younger prospects, catchers, high-K pitchers, low-BB pitchers, relievers, high draft picks, you name it – is overvalued or undervalued. Creating a formula that properly balances all the different inputs is pretty tricky.
Do you plug every eligible player in the system into it?
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"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Sep 5, 2011 2:32 AM MDT up reply actions
How did you rank Tyler Anderson? Based on adjusted college statistics?
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Anderson
Anderson (like all players with zero pro experience) is ranked entirely based on his signing bonus. I’ve played around with college stats before, but I don’t trust them enough to use them for the purposes of rankings like these.
Your system weighs onfield performance so heavily
but Anderson ranks #7 overall solely based on signing bonus?
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Well, I have to rank him somehow...
And a system that refused to rank a new draftee highly would produce some ridiculous rankings.
The system uses whatever inputs it has available. As Anderson accumulates professional innings, his signing bonus will play less and less of a role in his ranking.
To each his own, I suppose.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Funnily enough, by including signing bonus as a variable
ProspectBot is indirectly using a measurement that’s largely a result of scouting.
Absolutely
I recognize that the information is valuable. The point of ProspectBot is not to ignore scouting information, it’s to build a system. And that system can include whatever hard data I can find. Signing bonuses are easy to find, and obviously serve as a proxy for something important…. no reason not to include them. If I had 20-80 scale scouting reports for everyone, I’d happily add them into the PBot algorithm as well. The problem, as I’ve said, is that the scouting information available to the public tends not to be properly systematized, and therefore, it’s hard to know what to do with it.
How has this played out in the past?
Specifically, who were your top-30 prospects for the Rox a year ago? Or this spring? I’d like to see how the results have played out over time.
Why do you have Brad Emaus ranked so high?
There are several middle infielders I would think that are ranked higher than him.
by Charlie77 on Sep 5, 2011 1:06 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Emaus is a 1 WAR player right now
Whereas most of the guys on the list aren’t within shouting distance of replacement level. Sure, he doesn’t have much of a ceiling, but he’s a useful big leaguer, and that counts for something.
Well his fWAR is -0.1 this year..
and his minor league numbers were boosted from playing in dry desert climates at altitude; Colo Spgs, Albuquerque, Reno, Las Vegas, Tucson, Salt Lake City.
All my numbers are park-adjusted
Emaus was terrible in his brief time with the Mets, but he’s been solid at Colorado Springs, and was even better last year. He’s a useful player.
Interesting
The list certainly looks to favor younger prospects, but came pretty close to the PR list last year. I can’t say I agree with a purely statistical model, but the results look much better than I anticipated.
And it is DONE
As always, my ranking incorporates an entirely subjective quantification of scouting reports (from those here at PR and outside), performance, level, age, path to the majors, and positional depth in the organization. I do not rank them entirely based on talent, upside or any other projectable factor. Think of my list less as a list of who I think the best players in our system are, and rather who I think the most valuable players to this specific team are.
1. Drew Pomeranz
2. Nolan Arenado
3. Wilin Rosario
4. Tyler Matzek
5. Alex White
6. Kyle Parker
7. Chad Bettis
8. Rosell Herrera
9. Charlie Blackmon
10. Christian Friedrich
11. Tim Wheeler
12. Edwar Cabrera
13. Peter Tago
14. Tyler Anderson
15. Josh Rutledge
16. Rafael Ortega
17. Trevor Story
18. Corey Dickerson
19. Kent Matthes
20. Albert Campos
21. William Swanner
22. Thomas Field
23. Jordan Pacheco
24. Ben Paulsen
25. Edgmer Escalona
26. Joseph Gardner
27. Casey Weathers
28. Hector Gomez
29. Josh Slaats
30. Mike Zuanich
The “just missed” list (players who were in legitimate consideration for the final few spots on the list), in alphabetical order: Cristhian Adames, David Kandilas, Samuel Mende, Eliezer Mesa, Harold Riggins, Carl Thomore.
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
Oh, add Brad Emaus to that bottom sub-list. He was #30 on my first draft, but didn't appear again.
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Sep 5, 2011 11:33 AM MDT up reply actions
Paulsen
Why is Ben Paulsen appearing on anyone’s list? What is appealing about a 23-year-old first baseman struggling to hit AA pitching? That’s a sincere question, I’m not out to pick a fight…
he's essentially the org's only straight 1B prospect
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
2012: get ready for White Pomz!
NTTAWWT...
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Sep 6, 2011 11:07 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
well, people think he might have more power potential
also 23 years old is actually not that old for AA (Matt Holliday, anyone? Brad Hawpe?)
clearly he’s striking out way too much right now…he’s got a lot of work to do. but when he’s getting ranked in the late 20s, it’s hard to argue with.
by black_knight101 on Sep 5, 2011 11:51 AM MDT up reply actions
He's a first baseman in an organization without any.
Harold Riggins, Jordan Ribera, and even Kiel Roling appear outside of my top 30 at much higher places than they would on a pure talent list because they all have a more clear path to MLB right now than, say, a corner outfielder or shortstop does. Like I said at the top of my list, this is as much a factor in my rank as upside/performance are.
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"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Sep 5, 2011 11:54 AM MDT up reply actions
Oh, and this is also why Mike Zuanich won out #30 over Adames in the end.
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Sep 5, 2011 11:56 AM MDT up reply actions
So in effect, you're treating Paulsen's complete lack of defensive value as a point in his favor.
Being a 1B cannot possibly be an advantage. Every single player in the organization who is a better hitter than Paulsen is also a better 1B prospect than Paulsen. Assuming that the 1B of the future is a guy currently playing 1B doesn’t make sense.
I guess people are wanting the next
Todd Helton, or a Prince Fielder, or a Brandon Belt in the system, who came up with their teams as Monster 1b Prospects
It's Jim Tracy's Fault.
Ben Paulsen is not any of those players.
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Sep 5, 2011 12:02 PM MDT up reply actions
Well, being that we can't predict the future, I'd say best case he turns into the best MLB player in history, worst case he gets hit by a bus in a few moments.
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Sep 5, 2011 12:04 PM MDT up reply actions
If you want to have a serious discussion about a players potential let me know
It's Jim Tracy's Fault.
I know best case is best player in MLB
but I’m talking about what type of player Paulsen is capable becoming given his skill set.
It's Jim Tracy's Fault.
And what I'm saying is that I, personally, don't think it's worth looking at that way.
Which is why I don’t title my PuRPs list “Best Players EVAR”
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Sep 5, 2011 12:08 PM MDT up reply actions
I never said he was a 1B of the future.
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Sep 5, 2011 12:02 PM MDT up reply actions
How?
He does have an easier path to MLB. That has no bearing whatsoever on whether that will come to pass. If we were to hypothetically trade for a first base prospect of even slightly more significant projectability than Paulsen, it could drop him off the list entirely.
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Sep 5, 2011 12:06 PM MDT up reply actions
Exactly
Which is why the “easier path to MLB” thing isn’t a good justification for including him on a prospect list.
not every prospect needs to be the "player of the future" at their position
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
2012: get ready for White Pomz!
I think you may be missing the point of this list...
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Sep 5, 2011 12:08 PM MDT up reply actions
I don't think so
You said you’re ranking in terms of “most valuable to this specific team”. Unless “this specific team” is the Modesto Nuts, Paulsen has no value.
"This specific team" is "this specific organization".
I’ll never understand why people get so bent out of shape over this voting. We aren’t compiling the 30 best players in the organization. You can vote that way if you choose, but there’s a reason we let everyone vote. Even the ones who put Nick Schnaitmann on their list or put Brett Tanos in their top five. This is intended to be a measurement of our community’s perception of player importance. Mine is different from yours, and in this situation, equally valid. There’s absolutely no need to take any issue with the inclusion of Paulsen or anyone else on any list when the terms of why he was included are clear. The methodology for each individual list is going to be entirely separate from all others.
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Sep 5, 2011 12:16 PM MDT up reply actions
To add to your points: When was the last time the Rockies moved a prospect to 1B?
They moved Hawpe, but that was after he played in the OF for several years. The 1Bs they’ve called up; like Ryan Shealy were natural 1Bs, not converted infielders or whatever.
by Charlie77 on Sep 5, 2011 1:16 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
This point should be added to the intro section
This is intended to be a measurement of our community’s perception of player importance.
Along with the essence of what Greg states in the rest of the post. Its what makes the Row unique and the best place outside of Coors Field to be a fan.
TGFPR!!
not every prospect needs to be the "player of the future" at their position
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
2012: get ready for White Pomz!
Paulsen’s complete lack of defensive value
You mean the guy that won Texas League defensive first baseman of the year?
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Sep 6, 2011 1:27 PM MDT up reply actions
OT: Heltonfan
what was the link to your blog again, I lost it and want to re-bookmark it.
It's Jim Tracy's Fault.
Alright, here's mine
1 Drew Pomeranz
2 Nolan Arenado
3 Wilin Rosario
4 Tyler Matzek
5 Alex White
6 Chad Bettis
7 Rosell Herrera
8 Tim Wheeler
9 Raphael Ortega
10 Trevor Story
11 Kyle Parker
12 Tyler Anderson
13 Charlie Blackmon
14 Christian Friedrich
15 Edwar Cabrera
16 Joe Gardner
17 Josh Rutledge
18 Peter Tago
19 Albert Campos
20 Cristhian Adames
21 William Swanner
22 Josh Slaats
23 Thomas Field
24 Corey Dickerson
25 Jordan Pacheco
26 David Kandilas
27 Ryan Casteel
28 Dillon Thomas
29 Miguel Dilone
30 Joel Payamps
31 Hector Gomez
32 Raimel Tapia
33 Jayson Aquino
34 Carl Thomore
I tend to value upside over players who are near the Major Leagues. Lots of wildcards in the 26-30 range, but I really think there’s a nice young group coming up from the DSL and some interesting bats in Casper.
Am i the only one having trouble with 20-30
I seem to want to include guys like Aquino Jiminian and Kandilas instead of Gomez and Weathers. Am I wrong on this?
nothing wrong with that
it just depends on what you value…I felt especially inclined to include Jiminian, but just couldn’t pull the trigger…20-30 is understandably hard.
by black_knight101 on Sep 5, 2011 12:27 PM MDT up reply actions
you're far from the only person who doesn't care for weathers any more
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
2012: get ready for White Pomz!
shedding lurker skin for an hour at least
1. Drew Pomeranz
2. Nolan Arenado
3. Alex White
4. Wilin Rosario
5. Chad Bettis
6. Tyler Matzek
7. Kyle Parker
8. Tyler Anderson
9. Charlie Blackmon
10. Rosell Herrera
11. Tim Wheeler
12. Trevor Story
13. Josh Rutledge
14. Peter Tago
15. Kent Matthes
16. Christian Friedrich
17. Edwar Cabrera
18. Rafael Ortega
19. Cory Dickerson
20. Will Swanner
21. Thomas Field
22. Jordan Pacheco
23. Christiane Adams
24. Joe Gardner
25. Albert Campos
26. Jayson Aquino
27. David Kandilas
28. Mike Zuanich
29. Josh Slaats
30. Brad Emaus
Couple guys who missed that I had a difficult time leaving out: Harold Riggins, Jiminian, Dillon Thomas, Parker Frazier
Guys who missed that I didn’t have a difficult time with: Weathers, Gomez, Paulsen
Guy I wanted to put in the top 30 but just couldn’t justify putting him over any of my current list: David Christensen. Has been my favorite Rox farmhand since he came in the system, and there was a hint of a flicker this year. I am cautiously optimistic that next year will be a breakout for him.
"oh my god, it's grotesque! oh, and there's something in a jar"
I'm a browncoat
and one more note
my bold prediction is that kandilas will be top 15 this time next season. hasn’t done enough yet to warrant that ranking from me though. i base my rankings off of potential to get to the majors, potential once they reach the majors, and what have you done for me lately. if he gets off to a hot start next year he will be a big mover.
"oh my god, it's grotesque! oh, and there's something in a jar"
I'm a browncoat
It will be interesting to see how he responds next year, since he's repeating Casper this season..
I’m also keeping an eye on Albert Campos next year, he was lights out for Casper last season and was somewhat disappointing this year.
the way I look at Kandilas
he’s kind of in a strange situation, in that most of the prospects like him (from outside of the US) are from the dominican/venezuela and would be hanging out in the DSL. So as far as I’m concerned, his first two years in Casper were basically similar to him being in the DSL or in college. If you look at it from that perspective, he basically looks like an experienced college bat coming into the lower level minors…the numbers look great, but you would expect a guy like him to be crushing it in the Pioneer league. We’ll know a lot more next season.
by black_knight101 on Sep 5, 2011 11:13 PM MDT up reply actions
The quality of competition he saw in Australia ..
Was no where near the DSL. If we look at BR it shows there are 121 active Dominican players in the majors right now, and only 8 Aussies. So he’s endured a pretty steep learning curve, that being said, he’ll turn 21 next week and is fighting against the odds because of his nationality.
by Charlie77 on Sep 6, 2011 8:13 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
after three years in Casper, i doubt his nationality matters.
He’s been up against tough competition for several years now, and was finally ready for it this year.
by black_knight101 on Sep 6, 2011 8:39 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Vote Kandilas in '12
Hey, I didback in ’08 when he signed !! He will surprise a lot of folks in years to come, make no mistake.
Is that you, David :)
My gf is Australian so I have a personal reason for wanting him to succeed. And he seems to be a real talent. And I love good stories. Kandilas has my vote!
Campos was really, really unlucky this season
His peripherals aren’t terribly far off from his Casper season. He’s a big 2012 sleeper for me.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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Almost identical peripherals ..
So I expected a huge jump since he wasn’t pitching at 7000 ft anymore. Made me leery though, wonder if his stuff is easier to hit at the higher level.
by Charlie77 on Sep 6, 2011 8:15 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Plenty of growth left in his body, thankfully
I think it’s a combination of incredibly offensive park and unlucky season. I think he’ll bounce back.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Kandilas was played very sparingly in Casper in ‘09 and the following year played a little over half a season due to injury. So in essence he played only one season with the Ghosts. Healthy this year, and given the lead-off spot, he responded with great numbers across nearly all offensive categories. Rockies outfield co-ordinator Trenidad Hubbard (T-Hub) and Jimmy Johnson (JJ) absolutely love the way Kandilas has matured and has, what Aussies call a ’mongrel’ approach to his AB’s. Call that grit, or toughness or whatever, but he has applied himself fully to the task this year and his numbers show it with 10 triples and 6 HR just to name a few. He also just got picked to represent Australia in the Baseball World Cup. He will really shine next year and open a lot of eyes. Not many OF’s can throw the ball 350 ft like he can., or run 100 yds in even time.
Are you related to Kandilas, by any chance?
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
If so, different last name
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Sep 9, 2011 8:53 PM MDT up reply actions
Are you related to Kandilas?
No, just a close follower of baseball in Australia, and a lot of Australian sports people generally. I’ve seen him play in both Australia and in the US and quite excited at him being a genuine prospect. He’s overcome a lot of adversity and I admire that in anyone.
FYI baseball is a tiny sport in Australia, ranking #13 with only a few thousand players in a population of 25m. Compare that with US and Latin America. 31Aussies have played in the majors to date. Not a bad record.
Enough tinkering, here is my ranking
1 Nolan Arenado
2 Drew Pomeranz
3 Chad Bettis
4 Rosell Herrera
5 Kyle Parker
6 Wilin Rosario
7 Josh Rutledge
8 Edwar Cabrera
9 Trevor Story
10 Tyler Matzek
11 Tim Wheeler
12 Tyler Anderson
13 Will Swanner
14 Corey Dickerson
15 Peter Tago
16 Kent Matthes
17 Christian Friedrich
18 Joseph Gardner
19 Cristhian Adames
20 Albert Campos
21 Rafael Ortega
22 Brett Tanos
23 David Kandilas
24 Samuel Mende
25 Parker Frazier
26 Dan Houston
27 Mike Zuanich
28 Dillon Thomas
29 Chris Jenson
30 Brad Emaus
31 Thomas Field
32 Jordan Pacheco
33 Josh Slaats
34 Ben Paulsen
35 Angelys Nina
As I mentioned before I left out Alex White and Charlie Blackmon
I think White will be inelligible by the time of the poll and Chuck would have been if it wasn’t for the injury. In my view they already graduated so I didn’t want to bump anyone else off the list.
If I had included them, White would be no.5 and Blackmon would be at no.15.
Some comments on my rankings:
Arenado – So many things impress me about Arenado, from his improved defense, his insanely low strike out numbers (especially called S/O’s), to the fact he is just 20 at A+, and he is already hitting 20+ homers. I had no problem putting him at no.1, especially considering the current benchmark for 3rd base at major league level.
Herrera – I’m buying into the hype of scouting reports with a ranking this high, but he really sounds like a player that ‘could be anything’. I’m really looking forward to see his development next year.
Parker – His numbers weren’t really amazing this season, but I’m making allowances for it being his first full season, especially considering he was coming of a football season of severe beatings. He needs to pick up the pace next season, but I still see a high power ceiling.
Rosario – I don’t think I have changed my view on his upside, and he did have excuses coming back from injury, plus the ‘boredom factor’ theory. However I couldn’t have a player with a sub-.300 OBP in my top 5.
Rutledge – I had him ranked at no.18 last time, but he has been getting on base so consistently this season (albeit at age 22 in A+) I think he is a bonafide top 10 prospect now. If he carries over the success to AA then I expect to see him get a shot at the Rockies 2B no later than Sept 2012.
Cabrera – Another huge riser (no.22 last time), but you can’t ignore those strike out totals. I initially had him ranked even higher, but I pegged him back due to the concerns his s/o’s are more due to ‘craftyness’ than stuff. What is great to see is that his S/O rate didn’t slip too badly after his in-season promotion and I rather expected the increase in walks. He needs to start at AA to be at an age appropriate level.
Matzek – Yes he appears to be ‘back on track’, but essentially it was a lost season other than the experience in overcoming adversity. It was reassuring to see the velocity return, and he appears to retain the stuff to be a TORP, but I still have significant doubts he can overcome his control issues at a higher level as hitters are more patient.
Wheeler – A great breakout season and the Rockies could surely use a corner outfielder with power, but his struggles against lefties keep him outside the top 10.
Swanner – I find it amazing that Swanner could strike out in 38% of his ABs, yet still post a .357 OBP. I guess you could either be concerned at his propensity to strike out or see the potential for even more improvement if his contact skills improve. His patience has clearly improved, 20 walks in 182 PA’s, compared to zero walks in 78 PA’s last year. And I didn’t even mention the 10 HR’s in 159 AB’s.
Dickerson – His season line is one of the best in the system, but that Home/Road split is so very alarming. He could drop a long way next year if his road numbers are indicative of his real ability.
Tago – Somewhat overshadowed by Matzek’s struggles, Tago put up some of the worst pitching numbers in the system. A 1.771 WHIP!! And he issued more walks than strikes outs. Still only 19 he has plenty of time though, with hindsight he might have been better off staying in extended spring training and starting at Tri-City.
Matthes – Impressive numbers, but at 24 he was too old for his level. I guess he started at that level because he was returning from injury, but he should have been promoted mid-season. I wonder if they sacrificed his development to keep him at Modesto to benefit Arenado.
by Britbronco22 on Sep 6, 2011 5:56 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
******Big warning for everybody****
I’m still too new at this to properly evaluate prospects. Maybe next year. But some people are not including White because they don’t think he should be eligible. It’s also been pointed out that some are MiLB free agents after this year. However, their lists only have 30 players. Therefore, their ballots are likely not going to be included per the rules. It seems it should be strongly suggested to put 35 players on the ballots.
"Pain don't hurt" - Swayze (Road House) -- We miss you man!
My first list
1. Drew Pomeranz
2. Nolan Arenado
3. Alex White
4. Willin Roasario
5. Tyler Matzek
6. Chad Bettis
7. Kyle Parker
8. Josh Rutledge
9. Tim Wheeler
10. Peter Tago
11. Christian Friedrich
12. Tyler Anderson
13. Charlie Blackmon
14. Corey Dickerson
15. Edwar Cabrera
16. Thomas Field
17. Joe Gardner
18. Rosell Herrera
19. Trevor Story
20. Rob Scahill
21. Jordan Pacheco
22. Kent Matthes
23. Will Swanner
24. Rafael Ortega
25. Ben Paulson
26. Christian Adames
27. Josh Slaats
28. Angelys Nina
29. Dillon Thomas
30. Samuel Mende
31. Casey Weathers
32. Hector Gomez
33. Mike Zuanich
34. Albert Campos
35. David Kandilas
I could tinker with this for hours....
1 Drew Pomeranz
2 Nolan Arenado
3 Tyler Matzek
4 Alex White
5 Chad Bettis
6 Tim Wheeler
7 Wilin Rosario
8 Josh Rutledge
9 Corey Dickerson
10 Kyle Parker
11 Edwar Cabrera
12 Trevor Story
13 Tyler Anderson
14 Christian Friedrich
15 Charlie Blackmon
16 Rosell Herrera
17 Peter Tago
18 Rafael Ortega
19 Kent Matthes
20 Albert Campos
21 Josh Slaats
22 Mike Zuanich
23 David Kandilas
24 Will Swanner
25 Joe Gardner
26 Jayson Aquino
27 Edgmer Escalona
28 Carl Thomore
29 Christian Adames
30 Thomas Field
Samuel Mende
Harold Riggins
Ben Paulsen
Brett Tanos
Dillon Thomas
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
Welcome to PR
I love the sig
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
'r ya go.
1. Nolan Arenado
2. Drew Pomeranz
3. Wilin Rosario
4. Tyler Matzek
5. Alex White
6. Chad Bettis
7. Tim Wheeler
8. Trevor Story
9. Rosell Herrera
10. Kyle Parker
11. Charlie Blackmon
12. Tommy Field
13. Joe Gardner
14. Peter Tago
15. Rafael Ortega
16. Josh Rutledge
17. Christian Friedrich
18. Edwar Cabrera
19. Tyler Anderson
20. Jordan Pacheco
21. Carl Thomore
22. Will Swanner
23. Albert Campos
24. Cristhian Adames
25. David Kandilas
26. Edgmer Escalona
27. Ben Paulsen
28. Kent Matthes
29. Casey Weathers
30. Corey Dickerson
Just an average guy with exceptional hair. Nothing more, nothing less.
Bear Naked - My thoughts on sports, music, and life.
by Bryan Kilpatrick on Sep 6, 2011 9:01 AM MDT reply actions
Nope.
I’m really hesitant to believe in him. /joekoshansky
Just an average guy with exceptional hair. Nothing more, nothing less.
Bear Naked - My thoughts on sports, music, and life.
by Bryan Kilpatrick on Sep 6, 2011 9:35 AM MDT up reply actions
Right there with you.
I’ll have him higher than #30 though
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
I didn't say much higher...
I always reserve #30 on my list for the honorary Delta Cleary, Jr Award — who is certainly going to be Jordan Pacheco this time around.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
I'm a little higher than that on Pacheco because of his contact ability,
but god damn was he disappointing this season…
Just an average guy with exceptional hair. Nothing more, nothing less.
Bear Naked - My thoughts on sports, music, and life.
by Bryan Kilpatrick on Sep 6, 2011 10:18 AM MDT up reply actions
That's what #30 is for
The guys I place there are always talented, but disappointing.
Either you show me something, or you’re off the list next time around.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
He's not exactly Koshansky...
It’s not a comparison (as I sense more athleticism in Dickerson, obviously), but rather a warning sign. I’m also really high on Wheeler, who has his own warning signs. That’s the beauty of the PuRPs list – you do the research first, then let your gut feeling lead the way as you’re putting a number next to the name.
Just an average guy with exceptional hair. Nothing more, nothing less.
Bear Naked - My thoughts on sports, music, and life.
by Bryan Kilpatrick on Sep 6, 2011 10:21 AM MDT up reply actions
I think we all are.
Just an average guy with exceptional hair. Nothing more, nothing less.
Bear Naked - My thoughts on sports, music, and life.
by Bryan Kilpatrick on Sep 6, 2011 11:32 AM MDT up reply actions
I really want to hear an Aussie accent..
On the postgame interview.
by Charlie77 on Sep 6, 2011 1:54 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
"Shane, what did it feel like giving up 7 runs in an inning?"
“I gotta say, not ripper, mate. Not ripper at all”
I understand that
But putting a a 26 year old RP who has a 5.56 FIP in AA ahead of Dickerson makes no since to me at all.
I’m not even sure why Weathers should be considered a prospect at this point, let alone a top 30 one.
It's Jim Tracy's Fault.
First-round draft pick (probably shouldn't have been, but still) that can touch 100 and is probably
still shaking off the effects of Tommy John surgery. He’s always had problems finding the zone, but I think he’s still got a year or two of working on things before he officially becomes Juan Morillo.
Just an average guy with exceptional hair. Nothing more, nothing less.
Bear Naked - My thoughts on sports, music, and life.
by Bryan Kilpatrick on Sep 6, 2011 10:17 AM MDT up reply actions
At 26
in AA though, I think he is Juan Morillo.
I will ask another question, had he not been a 1st round pick, and he was just some random reliever in the system, given his numbers would be be a top 30 guy? I don’t think so.
It's Jim Tracy's Fault.
You have to remember that he missed a year and a half, though.
That is a very key part of the equation.
Just an average guy with exceptional hair. Nothing more, nothing less.
Bear Naked - My thoughts on sports, music, and life.
by Bryan Kilpatrick on Sep 6, 2011 11:30 AM MDT up reply actions
Not to mention, he was on the fast track before the injury.
Much like Rosario, Weathers would have likely made the team out of ST the following year – probably even more of a certainty for Weathers, actually.
Just an average guy with exceptional hair. Nothing more, nothing less.
Bear Naked - My thoughts on sports, music, and life.
by Bryan Kilpatrick on Sep 6, 2011 11:31 AM MDT up reply actions
Here it goes for me
1. Drew Pomeranz LHP
2. Nolan Arenado 3B
3. Wilin Rosario C
4. Alex White RHP
5. Tim Wheeler OF
6. Tyler Matzek LHP
7. Chad Bettis RHP
8. Charlie Blackmon OF
9. Josh Rutledge SS
10. Kyle Parker OF
11. Trevor Story SS
12. Rosell Herrera SS
13. Tyler Anderson LHP
14. Christian Friedrich LHP
15. Rafael Ortega OF
16. Kent Matthes OF
17. Peter Tago RHP
18. Edwar Cabrera LHP
19. Joe Gardner RHP
20. Will Swanner C
21. Cristhian Adames SS
22. David Kandilas OF
23. Samuel Mendes SS
24. Corey Dickerson OF
25. Josh Slaats RHP
26. Edgmer Escalona RHP
27. Albert Campos RHP
28. Harold Riggins 1B
29. Angelys Nina 2B
30. Nelson Gonzalez RHP
I probably weigh pitchers a bit unfairly, overrate how close a player is to MLB, and love low minors high ceiling guys just a bit too much, but damn it feels good to see so many middle infielders in the system with Impact bats.
~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~
There were definitely more players I thought worthy of making my list compared to last time
But that may actually be due to having more knowledge of the system.
It will be very interesting to see how the diversity of the polling stacks up against last time -
Last time:
6 players receiving 1st place votes (so far just 3 this time)
71 players named on ballots, 59 players receiving multiple votes and 31 players reaching the 12 vote threshold.
I’d be surprised if the total players increases, but I could easily see there being more than 31 players reaching 12 votes, assuming of course the votes keep rolling in before Friday.
Lurking Purp from another Blog
My first purp list and post on PR here so don’t be too hard on me. Like others 1-20 was pretty easy, but that group from 21-35 is really tough.
Tend to value pitching over hitting, as well as the ability to ultimately make an MLB roster someday – thus no Paulsen for me.
1. Pomeranz
2. Arenado
3. White
4. Wheeler
5. Bettis
6. Rosario
7. Matzek
8. Parker
9. Anderson
10. Blackmon
11. Friedrich
12. Diickerson
13. Gardner
14. Matthes
15. Cabrera
16. Rutledge
17. Tago
18. Story
19. Ortega
20. Pacheco
21. Campos
22. Herrera
23. Slaats
24. Field
25. Scahill
26. Swanner
27. Houston
28. Gomez
29. Gagnon
30. Kandillas
31. Emaus
32. Mende
33. Bergman
34. Nina
35. Thomore
Welcome
That’s a pretty good first post. Hang around a while.
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
Long time lurker, first time PURPer
1. Arenado
2. Pomeranz
3. White
4. Matzek
5. Rosario
6. Bettis
7. Parker
8. Blackmon
9. Wheeler
10. Story
11. Rutledge
12. Anderson
13. Herrera
14. Friedrich
15. Ortega
16. Cabrera
17. Field
18. Gardner
19. Pacheco
20. Tago
21. Slaats
22. Matthes
23. Campos
24. Scahill
25. Swanner
26. Dickerson
27. Gagnon
28. Kandillas
29. Weathers
30. Mende
31. Nina
32. Thomore
33. D. Thomas
34. Gomez
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson
Here's my first ever list. Spent a couple years developing it/tinkering before I felt comfortable voting.
1) Drew Pomeranz, SP, 22, Tulsa (MLB soon)
2) Nolan Arenado, 3B, 20, Modesto
3) Alex White, SP, 23, MLB
4) Tyler Matzek, SP, 20, Asheville
5) Chad Bettis, SP, 22, Modesto
6) Wilin Rosario, C, 22, Tulsa (MLB soon)
7) Kyle Parker, OF, 22, Asheville
8) Charlie Blackmon, OF, 25, MLB
9) Rossell Herrera, SS/3B, 18, Casper
10) Tim Wheeler, OF, 23, Tulsa
11) Josh Rutledge, 2B, 22, Modesto
12) Edwar Cabrera, SP, 23, Modesto
13) Rafael Ortega, OF, 20, Asheville
14) Tyler Anderson, SP, 21, N/A
15) Peter Tago, SP, 19, Asheville
16) Albert Campos, SP, 20, Asheville
17) Will Swanner, C, 19, Casper
18) Joe Gardner, SP, 23, Tulsa
19) Corey Dickerson, OF, 22, Asheville
20) Christian Friedrich, SP, 25, Tulsa
21) Thomas Field, 2B, 24, Tulsa
22) Hector Gomez, SS, 23, Tulsa
23) Trevor Story, SS/3B, 18, Casper
24) Josh Slaats, SP, 22, Asheville
25) Kent Matthes, OF, 24, Modesto
26) Ben Paulsen, 1B, 23, Tulsa
27) Cristhian Adames, SS, 20, Asheville
28) Casey Weathers, RP, 26, Tulsa
29) Dillon Thomas, OF, 18, Casper
30) Angelys Nina, 2B, 22, Modesto
31) Samuel Mende, 2B/3B, 21, Casper
32) Eliezer Mesa, OF, 22, Modesto
33) Nick Schnaitmann, SP, 21, Asheville
34) Edgmer Escalona, RP, 24, Colorado Springs
35) Carl Thomore, OF, 18, Casper
Of note: I really though some of the DSL pitchers would be on my list, but couldn’t find a place for them. The organization has better depth now than it has in a few years. I had a couple of relievers 36, 37 (Woods, Gonzalez) and then a slew of DSL/Casper/Tri-City guys that I think might have made the list this spring.
I had 11 new players in my top 35.
Cole Garner was 26 in the spring, I had him at 56 this time around.
Side Note:
Was Eliezer Mesa hurt this year?
If not, I’m curious why he didn’t see more playing time. He had positive numbers in Asheville last year but only played in 53 games at Modesto this year. His numbers don’t look good for this year, but I don’t think you can effective grade anybody on just 187 plate appearances.
Noticed this because he was PURP #23 this spring and he’s fallen way down my list because the lack of action; not necessarilly that I lost favor with him, but that seems to have happened with the organization.
by blooming rock on Sep 6, 2011 3:42 PM MDT up reply actions
Yeah, he had injuries throughout the year that limited his playing time
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
First time list
I’m new at this. I’m sure there are wiser evaluators than me — but here goes…
1. Arenado (Though it’s really 1 and 1a with Pomeranz)
2. Pomeranz
3. Bettis
4. Wheeler
5. Matzek
6. White
7. Blackmon
8. Rosario (love him, but just have lost faith that Rockies can develop a great catcher… been down that road too many times)
9. Story
10. Friedrich
11. Parker
12. Tago
13. R. Herrera
14. Pacheco
15. Campos
16. Cabrera
17. Ortega
18. Swanner
19. Matthes
20. Rutledge
21. Mende
22. Adames
23. T. Anderson
24. Field
25. Gardner
26. Kandilas
27. Slaats
28. Weathers
29. Nina
30. Paulson
Looking forward to getting new pics of Pomeranz for stories
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Sep 6, 2011 5:10 PM MDT reply actions
I've been looking forward to one too
Looking into making a poster of him: Drillers stuff doesn’t have the same flair.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson
These rankings are my first as well
I’m glad that I have some time off from coursework to do this…
I tiered players based on what I think their peak WAR will be (like Fangraphs does with their top organizational prospect rankings) and named each tier after a Rockies player based on his value to this team in 2011. I think I weighed minor league performance and major league promise about equally, so some players in lower tiers might end up having a much higher eventual peak WAR than the tier they are in, but I just haven’t seen that much from them at higher levels in the minors (like Aquino).
Tier 1: Troy Tulowitzki (7.0+ peak WAR)
1. Drew Pomeranz, SP
Tier 2: Carlos Gonzalez (5.0 – 7.0 peak WAR)
2. Nolan Arenado, 3B
3. Tyler Matzek, SP
NOTE on Matzek: I’m really impressed by what his Mitchell pitching instructor was able to do for him in only about a month. Like many others on this blog, I am excited to see how he will perform after a full offseason of working on his mechanics.
Tier 3: Jhoulys Chacin (4.0 – 5.0 peak WAR)
4. Wilin Rosario, C
5. Alex White, SP
Tier 4: Todd Helton (3.0 – 4.0 peak WAR)
6. Chad Bettis, SP
7. Kyle Parker, OF
8. Trevor Story, SS/3B
Tier 5: Seth Smith (2.0 – 3.0 peak WAR)
9. Josh Rutledge, 2B/SS
10. Charlie Blackmon, OF
11. Rosell Herrera, SS/3B
12. Tim Wheeler, OF
13. Tyler Anderson, SP
14. Joe Gardner, SP
15. Peter Tago, SP
16. Rafael Ortega, OF
NOTE on Gardner: I ranked him a little higher than others because I do think that sinker looks great at Coors. If he turns out to be a black Aaron Cook, I think that justifies this spot.
Tier 6: Dexter Fowler (1.0 – 2.0 peak WAR)
17. Edwar Cabrera, SP
18. Christian Friedrich, SP
19. Corey Dickerson, OF
20. Jordan Pacheco, C/3B/2B
21. Kent Matthes, OF
22. Will Swanner, C
Tier 7: Mark Ellis (0 – 1.0 peak WAR)
23. Thomas Field, 2B
24. Jayson Aquino, SP
25. Rafael Ortega, OF
26. Hector Gomez, SS
27. Ben Paulsen, 1B
28. Christhian Adames, SS
29. Dillon Thomas, OF
30. Harold Riggins, 1B
Tier 8: Jose Lopez (missed the cut)
31. Edgmer Escalona, RP
32. Mike Zuanich, 1B
33. Carl Thomore, OF
34. Johendi Jiminian, SP
35. Samuel Mende, 3B
Just wondering why Fowler who already has 3 WAR in limited action this year has a 1-2 peak WAR?
~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~
BR lists him as 1.5 WAR..
Fangraphs lists him as a 2.9 WAR. Both give him a negative defensive WAR, because defensive stats hate Coors Field.
2.2 OWAR in RWAR
in a short season I doubt very seriously that Fowler is a well below average CF
~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~
Don't look into the tier names too much
I’m sure that Dexter is going to have much, much better seasons than this WAR-wise, especially given how he’s raked since getting called back up. If you read the first paragraph, I’m not saying Dexter is only going to have a 1-2 peak WAR for his career, just like Todd Helton has already had above a 3-4 peak WAR in his career. The tier names are merely for convenience and comparison, really.
Again, I named tiers after Rockies players for their performance this year only (and I did use B-R). I named that particular tier after him in light of his value to the Rockies for this year — two months of below-replacement playing; three months of raking.
If he turns out to be a black Aaron Cook
Joe Gardner is white…
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Black Hearted Aaron Cook is too nice for his own good
~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~
Maybe my monitor is dying, because his Milb profile pic has always looked really white to me
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Well okay then.
His Milb pic is very deceiving.
Joe Gardner is the new Chris Nelson (who I always just assumed was white)
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
by Muzia on Sep 7, 2011 9:04 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Oh muzia
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Sep 7, 2011 8:55 AM MDT up reply actions
Heres mine.....
Pomeranz
White
Arenado
Rosario
Matzek
Bettis
Parker
Story
Blackmon
Herrera
Wheeler
Anderson
Friedrich
Tago
Rutledge
Cabrera
Ortega
Field
Swanner
Gardner
Paulsen
Pacheco
Dickerson
Woods
Aquino
Jiminian
Riggins
Matthes
Kandilas
Mende
Fall 2011 Purps List
1 Drew Pomeranz
2 Nolan Arenado
3 Chad Bettis
4 Edwar Cabrera
5 Alex White
6 Josh Rutledge
7 Tyler Matzek
8 Kyle Parker
9 Tim Wheeler
10 Trevor Story
11 Wilin Rosario
12 Charlie Blackmon
13 Tyler Anderson
14 Joe Gardner
15 Thomas Field
16 Rosell Herrera
17 Rafael Ortega
18 Christian Friedrich
19 Peter Tago
20 Edgmer Escalona
21 Albert Campos
22 Jordan Pacheco
23 Ben Paulsen
24 Kent Matthes
25 Corey Dickerson
26 Will Swanner
27 Sam Mende
28 Dillon Thomas
29 Jayson Aquino
30 Carl Thomore
31 Angelys Nina
32 Eliezer Mesa
33 Christian Bergman
34 Harold Riggins
35 Taylor Featherston
TGFPR!!
Once more unto the breach....
1. Drew Pomeranz
2. Nolan Arenado
3. Wilin Rosario
4, Chad Bettis
5. Alex White
6. Kyle Parker
7. Tim Wheeler
8. Tyler Matzek
9. Edwar Carbera
10. Trevor Story
11. Rossell Herrera
12. Charlie Blackmo
13. Josh Rutledge
14. Thomas Field
15. Rafael Ortega
16. Peter Tago
17. Christian Friedrich
18. Kent Matthes
19. Christian Adames
20. Will Swanner
21. Tyler Anderson
22. Albert Campos
23. Daniel Houston
24. Joe Gardner
25. Jayson Aquino
26. Josh Slaats
27. Corey Dickerson
28. Eliezer Mesa
29. Sam Mende
30. Dillon Thomas
Just missed:
Garneau, Kandilas, Riggins, Paulsen, Nina, Woods, Casteel, Tanos
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
add to the "just missed" list
Pacheco, Thomore, Escalona
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Sep 6, 2011 10:42 PM MDT up reply actions
It was more of a Henry V reference
I’m getting warmed up early this year for my St. Crispin and Crispian Day parties…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
Good stuff Cornwell
~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~
FALL 2011
1) Drew Pomeranz
2) Nolan Arenado
3) Wilin Rosario
4) Alex White
5) Tyler Matzek
6) Kyle Parker
7) Chad Bettis
8) Tim Wheeler
9) Rosell Herrera
10) Charlie Blackmon
11) Tyler Anderson
12) Josh Rutledge
13) Trevor Story
14) Christian Friedrich
15) Edwar Cabrera
16) Joe Gardner
17) Peter Tago
18) Kent Matthes
19) Cristhian Adames
20) Rafael Ortega
21) Albert Campos
22) Josh Slaats
23) Corey Dickerson
24) William Swanner
25) Jayson Aquino
26) Thomas Field
27) Jordan Pacheco
28) Mike Zuanich
29) Dillon Thomas
30) Edgmer Escalona
31) Rob Scahill
32) David Kandilas
33) Eliezer Mesa
34) Parker Frazier
35) Angelys Nina
by coffeeis4closersonly on Sep 7, 2011 1:01 AM MDT reply actions
I could spend literally forever shuffling
But I won’t. Here’s mine.
1. Nolan Arenado
2. Drew Pomeranz
3. Chad Bettis
4. Willin Rosario
5. Edwar Cabrera
6. Tyler Matzek
7. Josh Rutledge
8. Rafael Ortega
9. Rosell Herrera
10. Alex White
11. Kyle Parker
12. Tim Wheeler
13. Peter Tago
14. Christian Bergman
15. Charlie Blackmon
16. Thomas Field
17. Jordan Pacheco
18. Kent Matthes
19. Trevor Story
20. Tyler Anderson
21. David Kandilas
22. William Swanner
23. Cory Dickerson
24. Edgmer Escalona
25. Joe Gardner
26. Coty Woods
27. Albert Campos
28. Christian Friedrich
29. Ben Paulsen
30. Brad Emaus
31. Rob Scahill
32. Mike Zuanich
33. Hector Gomez
34. Angelys Nina
35. Sam Mende
Slightly weird how there’s a bunch of AAAA-type players in the mid-teens, and several more exciting prospects below them. Guess that’s some attempt to find balance.
If anyone wants a single place to check all the stats for the Rockies minor league teams..
they can use this spreadsheet I setup. I’m still working on it, trying to make the columns sortable, but it’s a nice one-stop place to look at stats. It links from BR.
by Charlie77 on Sep 7, 2011 8:50 AM MDT reply actions 2 recs
Nice work, Charlie
Purple Row - For all of your Colorado Rockies-related needs
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 7, 2011 2:14 PM MDT up reply actions
My first rodeo:
1. Nolan Arenado
2. Drew Pomeranz
3. Alex White
4. Chad Bettis
5. Wilin Rosario
6. Kyle Parker
7. Tim Wheeler
8. Josh Rutledge
9. Tyler Matzek
10. Kent Matthes
11. Rosell Herrera
12. Trevor Story
13. Tyler Anderson
14. Corey Dickerson
15. Edwar Carbrera
16. Charlie Blackmon
17. David Kandilas
18. Christian Friedrich
19. Jordan Pacheco
20. Rafael Ortega
21. Mike Zuanich
22. Joseph Garnder
23. Dan Houston
24. Ben Paulsen
25. Thomas Field
26. Peter Tago
27. Tyler Gagnon
28. Nelson Gonzalez
29. Samuel Mende
30. Ben Paulsen
31. William Swanner
32. Harold Riggins
33. Angelys Nina
34. Josh Slaats
35. Christian Bergman
I too listed Paulsen twice
Move Swanner into that 30 slot.
My first shot at this, hope I don't look like an idiot:
1. Drew Pomeranz
2. Nolan Arenado
3. Wilin Rosario
4. Alex White
5. Chad Bettis
6. Tim Wheeler
7. Tyler Matzek
8. Kyle Parker
9. Trevor Story
10. Charlie Blackmon
11. Christian Friedrich
12. Rosell Herrera
13. Thomas Field
14. Josh Rutledge
15. Peter Tago
16. Tyler Anderson
17. Rafael Ortega
18. Edwar Cabrera
19. Kent Matthes
20. Dillon Thomas
21. Will Swanner
22. Joe Gardner
23. Ben Paulsen
24. Hector Gomez
25. Josh Slaats
26. Corey Dickerson
27. Albert Campos
28. Cristhian Adames
29. Casey Weathers
30. Edgmer Escalona
Jason Giambi for player-manager in 2012!
How the world will end in 2012: George of the Roses builds a Machine that Pommels everyone with La Violencia during Whiteouts.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
Actually, that looks like a good list to me…. :=)
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
This was such a frustrating PuRPs list
I could spend another week tinkering, but that would just make me go mad. Here’s my list as of right now.
1. Drew Pomeranz – One of the top prospect arms in the game, elite LHP, and an easy #1 on this list.
2. Nolan Arenado – The power numbers are starting to arrive. Combined with elite plate coverage, he’s going to rake at Tulsa. I’d bet the bank he becomes at least a solid MLB starter.
3. Wilin Rosario – Plus defense, plus power, good contact at a defensively premium position.
4. Alex White – MLB ready, and with quality stuff.
5. Tyler Matzek- Still has the best ceiling in the system, and his rebound has been absolutely stunning.
6. Chad Bettis – I still have concerns about his overall ceiling, but he’s performing at an elite rate.
7. Tim Wheeler- I’m still a semi-doubter, but hope he turns into Brad Hawpe with defense.
8. Kyle Parker – Best power in the system, and he chose the right sport. Good enough for 2011.
9. Josh Rutledge – Biggest breakout of the year, and his second half numbers are elite (combined with a quality glove). Huge fan.
10. Trevor Story – Great potential, but below Rutledge for now. But if that bat emerges…
11. Rafael Ortega – Best CF prospect in the system, had another quality season.
12 Rosell Herrera – Likely without a firm future position for now, but plenty of room to grow. He should shoot up this list in 2012.
13. Charlie Blackmon – Should be on the MLB roster Opening Day 2012.
14. Tyler Anderson – I’ve grown to like this pick, provided he moves quickly through the minors.
15. Edwar Cabrera – Great season, though I still have questions about his future potential contributions at the MLB level.
16. Peter Tago - First pro season and heavy workload a likely factor in his disappointing season, but he’s still incredibly young and could become anything at this point. If he has another bad season in 2012, then I’ll start to worry.
17. Joseph Gardner – I still view Gardner as a future mid-rotation starter, and that GB% is droolworthy.
18. Thomas Field – Should be given a chance to make the 2012 Opening Day roster after another good season.
19. Christian Friedrich – Had a stable season (for the most part) and stayed healthy, though he ranks this low solely because much of the farm passed him by this season. Still an MLB starter.
20. Cristhian Adames –The Rockies have always shown faith in him, and the results are starting to show why. Good second half of the season, and he’s starting to add power to an already impressive skillset.
21. Will Swanner – Injuries cut short his promising year in Casper. A bit of patience should help his otherworldly power.
22. Angelys Nina – Great second half of the year, and should help complete a fascinating 2012 Tulsa infield (Arenado, Rutledge).
23. Albert Campos – Very similar peripherals to 2011 campaign, but extremely unlucky in an offensive park. Still young, and with plenty of promise.
24. Kent Matthes – Fantastic season, though shortened by injuries. Sheer power numbers at Modesto are impossible to ignore, and could be 2012’s Tim Wheeler.
25. Edgmer Escalona – Great numbers at AAA, and has shown himself to be an MLB ready arm. I resisted his inclusion here, but he’s earned a spot.
26. Corey Dickerson – I’m not a believer, but he deserves a spot on this list due to his second consecutive solid season. I fully expect him to have great road – and mediocre home numbers – next season in Modesto.
27. Dillon Thomas – The athlete of the 2012 draft, and he has performed well in a limited sample size. He could be a solid sleeper.
28. Joshua Slaats – One of my favorite pitchers this season, Slaats was absolutely dominant for a good portion of the year. His reward? Almost slipping completely off my list.
29. Taylor Featherston – Pure gut selection. Good glove, and great hitting peripherals. I fully expect him to skip to Modesto, and succeed.
30. Chris Nelson – The Honorary Delta Cleary Jr. spot™ goes to Chris Nelson. He’s a talented guy, but simply hasn’t taken advantage of the opportunities at the MLB level. With time running out, he’ll get one last chance to prove he’s not just another AAAA player.
Honorable Mentions:
Ben Paulsen
Carl Thomore
Jordan Pacheco
Ryan Casteel
Rob Scahill
Parker Frazier
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
I still can't believe that Tago and Friedrich ended up at #16 and #19 respectively
So many quality arms to be excited about.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
didn't nelson exhaust eligibility?
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
2012: get ready for White Pomz!
He did.
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Sep 8, 2011 12:12 AM MDT up reply actions
It should be an easy swap to keep the list valid
Muzia wrote :
I always reserve #30 on my list for the honorary Delta Cleary, Jr Award — who is certainly going to be Jordan Pacheco this time around.
Not sure why he changed his mind?
Old draft. Plus I wanted one last shot at Chris Nelson.
Throw in Pacheco, as I (apparently) always intended.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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Im a big fan of Rutledge too..
And I’m looking forward to his growth next season. The other player I’m interested in is Angelys Nina, like Dex, he made a change in his swing by shortening it and reducing the leg kick to become quicker and it had really good results.
by Charlie77 on Sep 8, 2011 5:13 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
What a difference a season makes ...
Tough act to follow Muzia but I’ll take the plunge. I value upside/youth and acknowledge there is risk in that strategy. With that, here goes:
Top Tier – future above average regs/all-stars
1) Nolan Arenado (position players more reliable – young for his league)
2) Drew Pomeranz (still think he is more of a #2 but more consistent than Matzek at this point)
3) Tyler Matzek (still probably highest upside on this list)
4) Willin Rosario (expected better OBP but defense & power at premium position)
2nd Tier – solid regs unless they show me more
5) Chad Bettis (great season – ‘nuff said)
6) Kyle Parker (solid but unspectacular season – expect a breakout into Top Tier next year)
7) Alex White (mid-rotation guy but already looks like he belongs in the show)
8) Tim Wheeler (splits splits splits)
9) Edwar Cabrera (k-leader but older for league – gets break due to late signing)
10) Tyler Anderson (#3-4 starter – understand why the safe pick but passed on high-ceiling guys)
3rd Tier – lots of youth with some fading vets – these guys can rise or fall significantly
11) Rosell Herrera (big step forward)
12) Peter Tago (tools still there but needs to improve command – crossing my fingers on this one)
13) Trevor Story (think the bat will play)
14) Josh Rutledge (can’t deny the solid across-the-board production)
15) Rafael Ortega (speed & glove plays)
16) Christhian Adames (good OBP skills – would like to see more power or speed)
17) Albert Campos (regained his form in 2nd half before being shut down)
18) Charlie Blackmon (I know- GASP! I still believe he is a 4th OF’er )
19) Will Swanner (after zero BB last year in 76 AB’s, his K/BB rate in his second stint shows promise)
20) Christian Friedrich (oh how the mighty have fallen)
21) Corey Dickerson (splits somewhat worrisome given age/level)
22) Joshua Slaats (really came on in the second half)
23) Joe Gardner (at best Aaron Cook circa 2008/at worst Aaron Cook circa 2011)
24) Rob Scahill (low k-rate keeps him down)
25) Carl Thomore (too young to really evaluate on 152 AB’s … this is a tip of the hat to Rox scouting department)
26) Samuel Mende (only 175 ML AB’s – jury’s out)
27) Dillon Thomas (good show in 58 AB’s – time will tell)
28) Angelys Nina (huge 2nd half has him on the map)
4th Tier – some hope left but not much
29) Thomas Field (getting long in the tooth – don’t see much upside here – utility guy)
30) Ben Paulsen (1st half #’s had my hopes up but faded badly)
5th Tier – meh
31) Jordan Pacheco (biggest drop on my list – looks like he is what he is – no power UT guy)
32) Kent Matthes (great season but old for his league)
33) Eliezer Mesa (Another faller – Disappointing season in High-A – looks overmatched but could be injury related)
34) Edgmer Escalona (could be a useful bullpen arm – don’t see him taking on high-leverage situations)
35) Dustin Garneau (OBP/SLG #’s look great – but back in low A-ball at 21 after holding his own in limited action at higher level in 2010 takes some of the shine off)
36) David Kandilas (can’t get too excited about a 21 year old in his third stint in rookie ball despite eye-popping #’s)
Put a fork in ‘em
37) Casey Weathers (I’ve officially lost hope – prove me wrong)
38) Hector Gomez (ditto)
good list
but no Parker Frazier? Not even in the top 38?
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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Frazier
Don’t see too much to get excited about. Nearly 23 in High A with middling peripherals. Could slot him in the meh tier I suppose.
Fair enough.
He had a decent season after TJ surgery, and I think there’s still some potential there.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Yeah, he damn near made my list.
I did a lot of waffling in the 25-30 spots.
Just an average guy with exceptional hair. Nothing more, nothing less.
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by Bryan Kilpatrick on Sep 8, 2011 2:49 PM MDT up reply actions
I followed a lot of Parker's games this year..
And he seemed to always be cruising until that one big inning did him in. He pitched quite a few no-hit innings this year. Next season he’s on my watch list.
by Charlie77 on Sep 8, 2011 5:07 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
I was considering adding commentary
But decided against it. Feel free to comment on my list.
1. A- Drew Pomeranz
2. A- Nolen Arenado
3. B+ Alex White
4. B+ Chad Bettis
5. B Wilin Rosario
6. B Tim Wheeler
7. B Kyle Parker
8. B- Tyler Matzek
9. B- Josh Rutledge
10. B- Edwar Cabrera
11. B- Tyler Anderson
12. B- Trevor Story
13. C+ Rafael Ortega
14. C+ Peter Tago
15. C+ Charlie Blackmon
16. C+ Albert Campos
17. C+ Will Swanner
18. C+ Rosell Herrera
19. C+ Christain Friedrich
20. C+ Corey Dickerson
21. C+ Joe Gardner
22. C+ Thomas Field
23. C Kent Matthes
24. C Ben Paulsen
25. C Josh Slatts
26. C Dan Houton
27. C Parker Fraizer
28. C Mike Zaunich
29. C Hector Gomez
30. C Jordan Pacheco
Ortega is a C+ prospect on your list?
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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I'm surprised Herrera's a C+, particularly with Story receiving a B-
Herrera seems to be consistently rated well below Story, and I’m really not sure why. They’re the same age (within 1 month of one another), put up very similar seasons in Casper in OBP, SLG, OPS, and SO %. Herrera had a little better BA, but Story made up for it with a few more free passes. Story did show a little better speed/base-running ability, but those that saw the team in person seemed to come back raving about Herrera. He’s bigger and the ability to switch-hit should provide additional value. I understand there’s some concern over his long-term position, as he may well outgrow SS, but with that growth should come significantly more power potential than what Story has. Even if Herrera moves to 3rd, a middle-of-the-order, switch-hitting power bat who can play average or better D at 3rd is extremely valuable. Defensive questions aside, I believe Herrera’s tools are unique enough to really separate him from the other IF prospects, outside of Arenado.
I'm still deciding which I'll rank higher
but if Rosell ends up below Story, it’s because of concern Rosell will size himself out of a middle infield spot, necessitating a need for a larger gap in bat to make up the difference in positional value
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Sep 8, 2011 11:58 AM MDT up reply actions
That's where I ended up landing
I think Herrera is going to move off SS.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
It's going to be interesting to see how the solve the surge of middle infield depth.
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by Greg Stanwood on Sep 8, 2011 12:26 PM MDT up reply actions
Kind of like
all the 1B “prospects” we had in the last decade
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
We haven't had much of a 1B prospect surplus at all over the past half decade.
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by Greg Stanwood on Sep 8, 2011 10:02 PM MDT up reply actions
Well I was thinking
Atkins, Hawpe, Koshansky, Shealy and Gload all came up as 1B and were moved elsewhere because 17 wasn’t moving. They were all thought of pretty highly and all of them collapsed, either at the minor league level or the ML level (or in Gload’s case he’s just a weak PH).
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
Gload's a weak PH?
Saw him win the Phils/Braves game on ESPN Thurs. night with a pinch-hit.
Career pinch-hit avg./OBP: .273 / .321. That’s not Seth Smith level, but above average for PH’s, I think.
2011 Rockies -- what the hell?
I'm pretty sure it is
PH numbers leaguewide suck.
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by Andrew Martin on Sep 9, 2011 9:52 AM MDT up reply actions
He might be above average as a PH
but that’s all he’s been for his career (or all he’s been worth). Those numbers PH are pretty good though, maybe the next Mark Sweeney, Greg Norton, John Vander Wal?
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
He's still five levels away from the Majors
He could be traded in the next five years to a team that could play him at SS…if he could stick at short
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Sep 8, 2011 12:31 PM MDT up reply actions
yeah exactly
“ability to stick at short” is an important factor, and exactly why I ranked Story above (by 1 spot) Herrera
by black_knight101 on Sep 8, 2011 12:53 PM MDT up reply actions
I don't put as much weight in positional value, which probably explains my rankings
Traditionally, yeah, MI prospects who can hit carried a ton of value, but at this point, the top athletes consistently play in the middle of the diamond, and it’s just not as difficult to find impact talent at SS. Looking at the B-R leader boards by position, you can use wOBA, wRC+, WAR, even pure slugging %, and the SS’s stack up very well to the 3rd Basemen. Ultimately, if Rosell carries a wRC+ of 100 or better, he’ll probably be top-10 offensively at either SS or 3B, so I’m not overly concerned which position he ends up at. Now, if he moves to LF, it may be a different story though.
that's the concern though
is that he is eventually going to end up in a corner OF position
by black_knight101 on Sep 8, 2011 12:54 PM MDT up reply actions
Why not 3rd?
From what I’ve heard, he plays a pretty good SS right now. I don’t see him having a problem at 3rd at 210 or so.
also a possibility
if that’s where he ends up, it would make him a lot more valuable (especially with the state of 3B these days).
by black_knight101 on Sep 8, 2011 3:54 PM MDT up reply actions
He would definitely be much more valuable at 3rd
That said, if the bat develops, he could play anywhere. With Herrera, I could see a reasonable ceiling (maybe a 75% projection?) of somewhere around .300, 25 HR’s, 100 RBI out of the 3 or 5 hole. Story just seems to be #2 hitter, somewhere around .280, 15 HR’s, 15 SB’s. And if we look at an absolute best case scenario, the gap widens. Add in the fact Herrera’s a switch-hitter and I just see a ton of potential value in that bat.
It boils down to
Story being considered a plus (or at least soon to be plus) defender at a premium position while Herrera is almost certain to grow out of it and move to 3rd or RF. It’s enough for me to break them into two different tiers.
Fair Enough
And I’m not picking on your list, it just happened to be the most recent when I commented. I’m really excited to see both Herrera and Story develop over the next few years, and I see both as top-15 prospects, but I’m just a little surprised with some of the Herrera rankings.
I can't speak for mkorpal, but I left Adames off my list due to the extreme overpopulation of infield depth that I felt was more valuable than Adames.
That said, he’s either #31 or #32 for me.
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by Greg Stanwood on Sep 8, 2011 8:35 PM MDT up reply actions
Pretty much the same here
I like him, but he is behind a lot of middle infielders. It speaks more to the depth of the system than against Adames.
Adames is being shortchanged. He’s arguably a better prospect than Josh Rutledge. Jim Callis has him above Edwar Cabrera, even. I think folks’ll be surprised at his ranking (again) when the national rankings begin to flow in…
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/ask-ba/2011/2612291.html
I haven't seen Adames in person yet, what makes him as good or better than Rutledge?
Because his stats don’t scream anything special.
With a Latin kid, here’s a few things I look at to determine how the organization views him (which usually jives with a player’s skill level):
Age: Adames was very young in the SAL, among the youngest position players.
Position: Right or wrong, there’s a level of honor among Latin shortstops. It’s the position most dream of playing in the big leagues, particularly among Venezuelans. For a player to get off the island and still play SS tells me he beat out a lot of competition.
Signing scout: Rolando Fernandez signed Adames. Anyone who follows the system knows just how important Fernandez is.
Batting order: Adames was moved to the No. 3 spot down the stretch. Look at his stats in September, when he was moved to that spot. With a kid that young, with that many tools, is it possible that something clicked? Very much so.
There’s nothing wrong with having Rutledge higher. He’s a fine prospect with a solid chance at playing in the bigs. But I’d bet that Adames is higher on the organization’s depth chart.
The club hasn't shied away from being very high on Adames
I love his OBP and his defense, and the power may have started creeping in there the second half of 2012.
Unfortunately, he was overshadowed by a bumper crop of middle infield prospects. He still made my list, and I am a big fan.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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I'll have to pay closer attention to him..
he reminds me a little of Angelys Nina, where nothing great stands out stats wise, but he could break out. Although he’s 3 yrs younger than Nina. I’m sure he’ll be in Modesto next season and I’ll be able to see him firsthand.
My Fall 2011 PuRPs ballot:
As I have the last few lists. I put these prospects into a tiered system. My list is pretty projection-heavy, valuing ceiling over production in case of a tie. Overall I think the system is a little lacking in true star power, but there’s a lot of guys who can contribute at the major league level here. I would say that the system is MUCH deeper than it was in the spring. The strength of the system is in its starting pitchers and outfielders, will middle infield also emerging as a strength.
Tier I — Elite (If everything clicks, these gentlemen are potential all-stars) — in the spring, this tier had 2 players; now, it’s 5 deep
1. Drew Pomeranz (LHP, 22) — combines an ace ceiling with big league readiness, 25% projection (which is worst case barring injury) is about a league average starter
2. Nolan Arenado (3B, 20) — after what he did in the Cal League at age 20, I’m a believer; power will develop, excellent knowledge of strike zone is already here — will be the starter at 3B by 2013
3. Alex White (RHP, 23) — multiple above average pitches, plus velocity, already in the bigs — probably already a mid-rotation starter
4. Tyler Matzek (LHP, 20) — if nothing else, Matzek has the highest ceiling in the entire system; elite K rate, second half improvement (particularly in BB rate) after sabbatical gives me hope that his rise could be swift next season
5. Wilin Rosario (C, 22) — didn’t have the same success he had last year at Tulsa, which is why he dropped, but I don’t believe that he’s going to see the minor leagues for a long while — the power is evident, and if given the playing time he’s an above average catcher with All-Star potential
Tier II — Highly Projectable (I can see any of these players becoming successful major league regulars) — this tier expanded from 9 to 11 players from spring to fall
6. Chad Bettis (RHP, 22) — for someone who was driving the bus on Bettis’ prospect bandwagon in spring, it’s surprising that he actually dropped a spot on my list from spring despite an excellent campaign and velocity gains — it’s a testament to the players above him and the fact that he was probably a level too low
7. Josh Rutledge (SS, 22) — the helium prospect of this season for sure; he hit .411/.461/.664 with 42 XBHs while providing elite SS defense at an age appropriate level — if he keeps this up in Tulsa he moves up a tier
8. Kyle Parker (RF, 21) — hit both LHP and RHP well and with power in first full baseball season splitting focus with football — H/R splits bear watching
9. Edwar Cabrera (LHP, 23) — yes, he was old for his league this year, but he led all of MiLB in strikeouts — I had a feeling about Juan Nicasio (another older prospect dominating in high A) in last fall’s list, and I’ve got the same feeling about Cabrera
10. Rosell Herrera (SS, 18) — potential middle of the order bat who can play SS, tore up the Pioneer league against pitchers 2-3 years older than him — could be a top 5 prospect next year
11. Charlie Blackmon (LF, 25) — he’s proven that he can be successful at all of his minor league stops, but will his speed/power/plate discipline combo find success in MLB — he’s probably a 4th outfielder at this point, but he’s already at MLB’s door
12. Tim Wheeler (CF, 23) — he had an excellent offensive year in AA (.287/.365/.535, 67 XBHs), there’s no denying that — three red flags are extreme platoon split, lack of success in previous minor league stops, and high K rate (25% of ABs)
13. Rafael Ortega (CF, 20 — he’s the best pure CF prospect in the system, has good speed (32 steals) and decent power for an up the middle player (43 XBHs) — good age 20 season
14. Trevor Story (SS, 18) — offensive ceiling is lower than Herrera, but probably is a better defender
15. Tyler Anderson (LHP, 21) — hasn’t started professional career yet, but all indications are that he will move quickly — #3 starter potential
16. Peter Tago (RHP, 19) — struggled in first professional season, but he was one of the youngest players in the SAL — needs to harness his stuff to succeed, but if he does he’ll move up to Tier I quickly given his top of the rotation ceiling
Tier III — Projectable (Can make a positive impact in the majors, might not be regular players) — this tier expanded from 9 to 10 players
17. Corey Dickerson (LF, 22) — he put up great numbers in Asheville (.282/.356/.629 with 64 XBHs) at an age appropriate level, but extreme H/R splits are a danger sign (1.262 OPS home, .642 road) — but he’s a lefty without an extreme platoon split
18. Thomas Field (2B, 24) — he’s a darkhorse candidate for the MLB utility job next spring, plus he’s played good defense and swung a decent bat at every stop
19. Joseph Gardner (RHP, 23) — if this extreme groundballer could approach Aaron Cook’s MLB success if all goes right, but the low K rate certainly gives me pause
20. Christian Friedrich (LHP, 24) — he wasn’t awful this year, but he was passed by quite a few prospects this year after stagnating at AA — he’s MLB-ready, but it isn’t clear whether he’ll ever be more than rotational depth
21. Cristhian Adames (SS, 20) — more than held his own in age 19 season in Asheville, yet another toolsy shortstop with MLB potential
22. Will Swanner (C, 19) — he might have the most raw power in the system, plus he finally learned how to draw a walk — that combination will serve him well next year in Asheville
23. Albert Campos (RHP, 20) — he’s another young pitcher with at least mid-rotation potential, but the results weren’t there in 2011 — he’ll probably repeat low A
24. Brad Emaus (2B, 25) — he might not be the flashiest of players, but Emaus is already a MLB-caliber utility player, and there’s considerable value in that
25. Kent Matthes (OF, 24) — I can’t not list the California League MVP (.334/.378/.642, 65 XBHs) here, but he is somewhat old for the level
26. Jordan Pacheco (C/INF, 25) — he’s a great hitter who had a very bad year in AAA, but he’ll stick in the big leagues as a utilityman
Tier IV — Solid prospects (either AAAA players or too raw to rate higher)
27. Josh Slaats (RHP, 22) — after a rocky start to 2011, he really settled down in Asheville to post a good sophomore season
28. Jayson Aquino (RHP, 18) — I simply can’t ignore a player who has put up a 1.30 ERA in 151.1 IP, even in the pitcher’s paradise that is the DSL — I’m very excited to see if this success translates to the US
29. Mike Zuanich (1B, 24) — his offensive line is great (.337/.426/.625) , but he is limited defensively and is on the older side — he’s a Rule 5 draft candidate if Colorado doesn’t protect him
30. Dan Houston (RHP, 24) — great campaign over two levels, he’s definitely a back of the rotation candidate over the next year or so
Tier IV continues for another 15-20 players, the top 5 of whom were
31. Rob Scahill
32. Joel Payamps
33. Sam Mende
34. Hector Gomez
35. Parker Frazier
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He's probably got the highest upside of any of the DSL pitchers, per scouting reports
He also showed good K potential at age 17
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LIke many others here, I am popping my PuRP's lists cherry this go-around.
I’m glad I waited until now, because this was tough. 5 out of my top 10 are pitchers, which makes me smile. I still believe in Tyler Matzek in a big way. I really want to believe in Corey Dickerson and Joe Gardner. Christian Friedrich is grandfathered into the top 20, but I don’t hold out much hope at this point. The 20-30 is fairly interchangeable. I am tired of waiting for Hector Gomez and Casey Weathers to have breakout years. Most common first name on the list? Christain. Somehow fitting for this organization.
Here we go:
1 Drew Pomeranz
2 Nolan Arenado
3 Alex White
4 Wilin Rosario
5 Tyler Matzek
6 Chad Bettis
7 Kyle Parker
8 Edwar Cabrera
9 Josh Rutledge
10 Tim Wheeler
11 Peter Tago
12 Charlie Blackmon
13 Rosell Herrera
14 Rafael Ortega
15 Tyler Anderson
16 Trevor Story
17 Joe Gardner
18 Corey Dickerson
19 Christian Friedrich
20 Rob Scahill
21 Edgmer Escalona
22 Hector Gomez
23 Thomas Field
24 Will Swanner
25 Jordan Pacheco
26 Ben Paulsen
27 Mike Zuanich
28 Kent Matthes
29 Casey Weathers
30 Christian Bergman
Honorable Mention (code for if I screwed someone up, use the following guys instead in order):
31 Parker Frazier
32 Jayson Aquino
33 David Kandilas
34 Carl Thomore
"My eyes! The goggles do nothing!" - Rainier Wolfcastle
My list
Have to say I like this list much more than my previous vote. Had to leave off a couple that might have made my top 20 last time out. The pitching has a couple possible #1 starters with plenty #3s. The offense has some emerging middle infielders that have great potential. Excited to see who takes the next steps forward.
1 Drew Pomeranz
2 Nolan Arenado
3 Tyler Matzek
4 Wilin Rosario
5 Kyle Parker
6 Alex White
7 Chad Bettis
8 Josh Rutledge
9 Rosell Herrera
10 Tim Wheeler
11 Edwar Cabrera
12 Tyler Anderson
13 Rafael Ortega
14 Charlie Blackmon
15 Trevor Story
16 Peter Tago
17 Joe Gardner
18 Albert Campos
19 Christian Friedrich
20 Kent Matthes
21 Thomas Field
22 Corey Dickerson
23 Jordan Pacheco
24 Will Swanner
25 Jayson Aquino
26 Carl Thomore
27 Cristhian Adames
28 Josh Slaats
29 Dan Houston
30 Dillon Thomas
Time for some of this Rockies: "One of the beautiful things about baseball is that every once in a while you come into a situation where you want to, and where you have to, reach down and prove something." Nolan Ryan
List is getting longer. That's good news for Rockies fans.
1 Drew Pomeranz
2 Nolan Arenado
3 Wilin Rosario
4 Tyler Matzek
5 Alex White
6 Chad Bettis
7 Tim Wheeler
8 Kyle Parker
9 Charlie Blackmon
10 Josh Rutledge
11 Rossell Hererra
12 Rafael Ortega
13 Tyler Anderson
14 Edwar Cabrera
15 Trevor Story
16 Christian Freidrich
17 Peter Tago
18 Thomas Field
19 Corey Dickerson
20 Joseph Gardner
21 Christian Adames
22 Will Swanner
23 Hector Gomez
24 Albert Campos
25 Kent Mathes
26 Ben Paulsen
27 Parker Frazier
28 David Kandilas
29 Johendi Jiminyan
30 Carl Thomore
31 Edgmer Escalona
32 Jordan Pacheco
33 Brad Emaus
34 Casey Weathers
35 Josh Slaats
36 Angelys Nina
37 Jayson Aquino
38 Joel Payampas
39 Dillon Thomas
40 Taylor Featherston
Well, here it is
1 Drew Pomeranz
2 Nolan Arenado
3 Tyler Matzek
4 Wilin Rosario
5 Alex White
6 Chad Bettis
7 Rosell Herrera
8 Trevor Story
9 Kyle Parker
10 Josh Rutledge
11 Rafael Ortega
12 Tim Wheeler
13 Charlie Blackmon
14 Tyler Anderson
15 Peter Tago
16 Christian Friedrich
17 Edwar Cabrera
18 Joe Gardner
19 Albert Campos
20 Cristhian Adames
21 Thomas Field
22 Corey Dickerson
23 Jordan Pacheco
24 Rob Scahill
25 Will Swanner
26 Josh Slaats
27 Kent Matthes
28 Joel Payamps
29 Edgmer Escalona
30 Hector Gomez
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Sep 9, 2011 8:55 PM MDT reply actions
Here we go
1 Drew Pomeranz
2 Tim Wheeler
3 Wilin Rosario
4 Nolan Arenado
5 Charlie Blackmon
6 Edwar Cabrera
7 Chad Bettis
8 Josh Rutledge
9 Joe Gardner
10 Kyle Parker
11 Rafael Ortega
12 Rosell Herrera
13 Corey Dickerson
14 Will Swanner
15 Jayson Aquino
16 Trevor Story
17 Nelson Gonzales
18 Dillon Thomas
19 Thomas Field
20 Coty Woods
21 Tyler Matzek
22 Angel Lezama
23 Christian Adames
24 Dan Houston
25 Christian Friedrich
26 Joheni Jiminian
27 Peter Tago
28 Harold Riggins
29 Franmy Pena
30 Mike Zuanich
Mine
1. Drew Pomeranz
2. Nolan Arenado
3. Tim Wheeler
4. Alex White
5. Wilin Rosario
6. Tyler Matzek
7. Chad Bettis
8. Joe Gardner
9. Josh Rutledge
10. Edwar Cabrera
11. Kyle Parker
12. Tyler Anderson
13. Rosell Herrera
14. Trevor Story
15. Rafael Ortega
16. Albert Campos
17. Will Swanner
18. Jayson Aquino
19. Peter Tago
20. Carl Thomore
21. Samuel Mende
22. Jordan Pacheco
23. Corey Dickerson
24. Christian Friedrich
25. Dillon Thomas
26. Christian Adames
27. Angelys Nina
28. Ben Paulsen
29. Thomas Field
30. Josh Slaats
31. Rob Scahill
32. Casey Weathers
33. Dan Houston
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I'll count it because you're halfway across the world.
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by Jeff Aberle on Sep 10, 2011 11:43 AM MDT up reply actions
Cursory count reveals 40 ballots
In the spring there were 35. Either way, it will take a little while for me to compile the results. Hopefully sooner rather than later
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by Jeff Aberle on Sep 10, 2011 11:43 AM MDT up reply actions
I should add that with that many ballots, a player must be ranked on at least 13 ballots to receive full points for each vote
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by Jeff Aberle on Sep 10, 2011 11:44 AM MDT up reply actions
Rox Girl
May have missed it, but would have liked to get Rox Girl’s take.
TGFPR!!
by jlot10 on Sep 10, 2011 8:03 PM MDT via mobile reply actions
It's possible she e-mailed it to Jeff
although I don’t think it likely.
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
I have to admit I'd have been heavily influenced by RG's take
So probably for the best that she held off.
Even though the polls are technically closed, this is still good for discussion
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now who does that?
I am actually excited about the players coming up through the system in the next year or 5. Should be fun to watch.
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
Who do you think will have the best Arizona Fall League?
A. Drew Pomeranz
B. Tim Wheeler
C. Nolan Arenado
D. Other
Pomeranz on ability and level
A
C
B
D
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
1. Drew Pomeranz
2. Nolan Arenado
3. Alex White
4. Tyler Matzek
5. Wilin Rosario
6. Kyle Parker
7. Chad Bettis
8. Tim Wheeler
9. Trevor Story
10. Rosell Herrera
11. Josh Rutledge
12. Tyler Anderson
13. Charlie Blackmon
14. Thomas Field
15. Rafael Ortega
16. Peter Tago
17. Edwar Cabrera
18. Edgmer Escalona
19. Albert Campos
20. Jordan Pacheco
21. Christian Friedrich
22. Ben Paulsen
23. Kent Matthes
24. Joe Gardner
25. Corey Dickerson
26. Will Swanner
27. Hector Gomez
28. Carl Thomore
29. Dillon Thomas
30. Casey Weathers
Sorry dude, this ballot won't count. It is of course open for discussion, however
The writer formerly known as Jabberwocky
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