Monday Rockpile: One Way Or Another, Seth Smith Is Getting Paid
by Andrew Martin on Jan 16, 2012 7:30 AM MST
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Yesterday night, the Rockies agreed to a 1-year contract with outfielder Seth Smith. While the terms haven't been officially disclosed, Thomas Harding is reporting that the deal is worth somewhere in the neighborhood of $2.4M.
Similarly, 2 days ago, the Braves signed Martin Prado to a 1-year, $4.75M contract. Difference is, there's still talk that Prado could be the Braves' long term Chipper replacement. Smith, is clearly not going to be that guy for the Rockies.
I still haven't settled on how I feel about this whole Smith situation, but it seems that the team may have been a bit eager in moving Smith. If not eager, at least too vocal about their interest in moving him. Granted, we've drummed up a bit of the Rockies eagerness ourselves, given the way things tend to escalate and dissipate in discussion around here, but he's been a trade candidate for some time now. The issue in my mind is sort of that Smith has been pinned to Prado, but now it's kind of like the market has shied away from Smith, given the tension between the Rockies and Braves about Prado v Smith (well, the implied tension from all of the "talks not dead" tweets we've seen in the past couple of months). Thing is, the Braves have more leverage than the Rockies, as Atlanta is completely content with keeping Prado past this season, while Colorado may not be so much.
Now that we've revisited the dead horse beating, it still remains that having Seth Smith on the team shouldn't be considered a bad thing... necessarily. The concern I have is that if the Rockies aren't completely pleased with Smith's attitude, having him disgruntled from almost being traded isn't likely the way to get the best out of a player. Then again, this could be that wakeup call that Smith might just need. Ah, psychoanalysis based on limited information.
Work ethic aside, Smith may not be a gigantic power threat like the Rockies seemingly wanted him to be, but he did have 55 extra base hits (including his 15 HR) in only 533PA and a .200 ISO. Furthermore, Smith still had good PH numbers in 2011, so if all else fails, there's that.
Nationals extend Gio Gonzalez's contract through 2016 season | MLB.com: News
5 years, $42M. That's a decent chunk of money, but that's easily a good deal for the Nationals, given the price pitching is going for these days. He's been a 3+ fWAR pitcher the past 2 seasons, putting up 200 innings in each of those seasons with a low 3's ERA. 2011 was only Gonzalez' 4th season in the majors (he's accumulated about 3ish years of service time). Not to get TOO far ahead of myself, but might we need to be thinking about numbers like that in a few years with Drew Pomeranz and Jhoulys Chacin?
Can Yoenis Cespedes Showcase Talents In MLB? | FanGraphs Baseball
Check out some of the comments by user "Felix". He's bringing some interesting information to the table. Specifically, Cespedes might seem to be a baseball crusher, but if the Cuban Leagues are similar to High-A/AA baseball, then we could easily have some teams paying big money to a questionable talent.
Honestly, all social/political commentary aside, I wish there wasn't Communism in Cuba still so we could actually see some more of these Cuban ballplayers. Watching some of them against Australia in the World Baseball Classic was pretty fantastic.
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The way I see it
We have somewhat of an asset in Seth Smith that Jim Tracy doesn’t understand how to properly utilize. I’d really like to see us get something for Smith, or find a manager that does understand how to utilize the assets that are at his finger tips.
Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
I’d be down for at least getting a potential piece out of smith at this point
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 8:00 AM MST up reply actions
Same
Or the head of Jim Tracy. But we won’t see that unless we finish below .500 again this year. And I’m not the type of fan that wants to suffer through a bad season again in the promise that it will improve the team overall.
Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
I'm not sure what Tracy has to do with any of this.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Jan 16, 2012 8:02 AM MST up reply actions
its always his fault
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by Jamie Hollowell on Jan 16, 2012 8:04 AM MST up reply actions
I dislike Tracy as much as anyone.
I just don’t think he has anything to do with the Smith situation.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Jan 16, 2012 8:06 AM MST up reply actions
Tracy's job is to put the players on the field
And give them the best chance to succeed. I know it has been argued on this blog ad-nausiem that a good manager can’t really help his team overachieve, but a bad manager can enable his team to underachieve. And I honestly think that Tracy’s tinkering was one of the lesser problems last year and Seth Smith was affected by it.
That and I’d love to see Tracy’s special butt get run out of town.
Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
How was Smith affected?
Smith basically played in every game he could against RH starters. He didn’t play much against LH starters. It was like that the whole season. I’m not seeing Tracy as having anything to do with Smith’s problems.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Jan 16, 2012 8:09 AM MST up reply actions
He sure was.
I recall last season that Smith was starting to show some ability hitting LH pitchers as well. However, Smith was not given a chance to continue to develop an ability to hit against RHP, I remember threads where this to was discussed at length during last season.
Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
And I apologize if I've got RHP and LHP backwards in my argument.
Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
That stats don’t show that story at all. He was given little or no chances against LH starters last year. The story was quite consistent.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Jan 16, 2012 8:17 AM MST up reply actions
I am arguing that there was a stretch (I think it was during the interleague part of the season)
Where Smith was showing improvement vs. LHP. and then he began to get less opportunities against LHP. I’m not saying that he should/should not be an every day starter, just that by the means of Jim Tracy’s line up tinkering, he has lost value.
I can’t find a monthly breakdown of his stats against LHP to support my argument due to time, and google-fu constraints, and probably shouldn’t be pursuing this argument further, I’m just trying to express my point of view on the subject.
Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
As bad as Seth Smith's numbers against Lefty starters were, they were still better that Spillborghs
Smith should have been taking more of Spilly’s starts vs LH starters.
Spilly: .212/.279/.323/.603 68 sOPS+ in 28 games started 111 PAs
Smith: .234/.306/.344/.649 82 sOPS+ in 11 games started 72 PAs
The front office should have given Tracey a better platoon partner than Spilly but Tracey should have been playing the better player.
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This shows part of the problem with Smith's usage.
He wasn’t all that terrible against LH starters (still platoon worthy though), but where he really struggled was against LOOGYs: .161/.161/.194 (in only 31 PA), with no walks and seven strikeouts. At the very least, the team needs a decent RH platoon partner for Smith who can pinch hit in late innings. The opposing team can stifle rallies pretty easily with a left-on-left matchup vs. Smith.
I thought one thing that Tracy did well when he took over for Hurdle, is he let the guys play, he let them relax and just play, they didn’t have to worry about lineups, guys like Dex, Ian, CarGo and other just relaxed and played ball. Now the last couple years he has just tinkered them to death and they constantly have to worrya bout being matcheduppzedsz
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 8:09 AM MST up reply actions
When was Smith tinkered to death?
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by DumbAndNerdy on Jan 16, 2012 8:10 AM MST up reply actions
he was constantly platooned last year
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 8:10 AM MST up reply actions
As well he should have been
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 16, 2012 8:12 AM MST up reply actions
yeah probably, but he has 5x as many career AB’s versus rightys as he does lefties. Not a ton of chances to improve on your abilities that way
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 8:19 AM MST up reply actions
it's a catch 22, I know
that’s what happens when you’re a lefty who initially hits like a platoon player and has other players in front of him, I guess.
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 16, 2012 8:29 AM MST via Android app up reply actions
He's not very good against LHP, and it has little to do with development opportunities
I’m not sure if the newer MiLB splits site is 100% accurate, but you can see from these numbers that a) he never developed power vs. LHP in the minors, and b) he got plenty of ABs vs. LHP to demonstrate some ability to hit.
It does appear that he could have OBP skills vs. LHP, but for whatever reason that hasn’t translated to MLB play. And, it’s possible that, as Thnikkaman is suggesting, he could get hot against LHP for periods of time.
But, it’s not a bad thing to be a LH platoon player since you still get a ton of ABs throughout the season. It’s much more beneficial to the team to maximize the PA (by minimizing the chances at an out) rather than give on-the-job training to someone who is 29 YO.
Constantly and consistently.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Jan 16, 2012 8:15 AM MST up reply actions
I think what everbody is saying, is that the Front Office views him as a starter, and are trying to get starter for starter return on a trade but, how is that possible when tracy never even saw him as a starter? If he was a starter he should have been able to hit against leftys
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 8:14 AM MST up reply actions
They saw him as a starter against RH pitching only.
That was it.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Jan 16, 2012 8:16 AM MST up reply actions
I agree
Tracey’s lineup shuffling and super ‘matchupz’ could not have helped anything, lineup stability is what lead to the playoffs in 2009 and his lack of it is what has lead to two years of crap, at least that’s my feelings.
Is it April yet?
How did this affect Smith?
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by DumbAndNerdy on Jan 16, 2012 8:10 AM MST up reply actions
I think when a player doesn't know if he's gonna play
or knows he’s not gonna play before he gets to the park affects him. Players need regular time to get in grove, Smith never got that luxury. It seemed whenever Smith did something good, Wiggy or EY2 would get the next OF start.
Is it April yet?
That didn't happen last year at all.
He knew he was going to play against RH and not against LH. The stats bear that out. He had 461 PAs last year against RH starter and 72 against LH starters. He wasn’t getting yanked around.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Jan 16, 2012 8:15 AM MST up reply actions
Agreed, and they need to trade him
Even if only for a prospect. In the medium and long run, perhaps as early as this year, Blackmon/Wheeler is better on both sides of the ball, except in the very limited circumstance of hitting against right handed fastball pitchers. If we’re aiming to 2013, or even to finish strong this year, we need to let Charlie and Tim play.
And besides, there is enough smoke around Smith being a bad clubhouse guy, or at least a bad influence on work habits, to think there’s some fire, too.
by BostonTransplant on Jan 16, 2012 8:20 AM MST up reply actions
Especially since we hold Wheeler in some high esteem
We can’t trade him for anyone … if that’s the case, we have to play him, and Colo Springs won’t show us whether he’s ready or not. Has to be in Denver later this year.
by BostonTransplant on Jan 16, 2012 8:23 AM MST up reply actions
I can't buy this
his defense has been fine the past few years, but bad in 2011. He’s not an amazing fielder, but he’s at least average, speaking of a multi year sample. Is it possible he just defensively slumped in 2011?
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 16, 2012 8:32 AM MST via Android app up reply actions
He'll be 30 next year
I dunno, but I suspect he’s peaked and isn’t one of those guys who works his butt off to extend his prime. He’ll be able to turn on a fastball for a few more years, yeah, but I’d be surprised if his fielding improves.
by BostonTransplant on Jan 16, 2012 8:35 AM MST up reply actions
I don't want to be trading him for the sake of trading
Because he still holds value in a position in which we totally sucked at last year.
Funny how that two years of Tracy-induced crap
Corresponded with two years of lousy starting pitching. That’s the biggest difference between 2009 and the two years since.
by Northsider1964 on Jan 16, 2012 8:24 AM MST up reply actions
I really don't think he has anything to do with it
He’s not a great manager by any stretch, but our problems begin and mostly end with lack of player performance — especially adjustment to ML opponents — at various key positions. I’m much more ready to blame our organizational player development guys than Tracy.
by BostonTransplant on Jan 16, 2012 8:34 AM MST up reply actions
Agree
Not that Tracy doesn’t frustrate me sometimes, because he does. But it sure has become fashionable to blame him when a 4th place roster finishes in 4th place.
by Northsider1964 on Jan 16, 2012 9:23 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
This is exactly how i feel
"Don't give up, don't ever give up" - Jim Valvano
by nodakroxfan on Jan 16, 2012 9:36 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
Andrew alluded to the issue with Smith.
The Rockies wanted Smith to provide LH protection behind Tulo as a replacement for an aging Helton. Smith cannot hit LH well, nor did he develop HR power. These are two things that the FO felt Smith needed to take this spot. Since he did not take this spot, they had to find someone who they thought could. That person was Cuddyer, who is to do the job as a RH.
I’m not sure what Jim Tracy has to do with any of that.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Jan 16, 2012 8:13 AM MST up reply actions
considering he can’t hit lefties, didn’t develop HR power, and his horrible range in the field, and what we already have in Giambi off the bench, I’m not sure why he is still on this team
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 8:23 AM MST up reply actions
haha and we wanted martin prado for him
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 8:27 AM MST up reply actions
The issue with Smith that was alluded to was how he responds to the trade rumors
if he’s still on the roster in April:
The concern I have is that if the Rockies aren’t completely pleased with Smith’s attitude, having him disgruntled from almost being traded isn’t likely the way to get the best out of a player.
It’s up to Tracy to get Smith in the right place to be a productive player. Managing personalities – even if it’s just soothing lies – is a critical part of being a manager. All of the purported dysfunction in the clubhouse suggests that Tracy is bad at that part of his job.
But we had the best damn clubhouse in MLB!
Until the official company line changed, and then a suddenly dysfunctional clubhouse became the main reason the team was underperforming. I frankly thought the former was a big load of crap, and I think the same about the latter.
by Northsider1964 on Jan 16, 2012 9:26 AM MST up reply actions
We paid Ty Wigginton $1 million last year to be a super-backup.
Smith is an upgrade over that, even if he blocks Blackmon and kills EY.
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Should read $1 million more
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by DumbAndNerdy on Jan 16, 2012 8:03 AM MST up reply actions
Good news
Smith played well last year, and $2.4 isn’t so much so I think this is good news. If Dex continues to hit well, then we have a great 4 OF crew. If Dex hits another funk, then we still have 3 good OFs and can call up a young guy for #4.
Depends on whether you think Smith is the future or not
I don’t, personally. He’s not that much younger than Cuddyer, actually, really hurt us badly in the field last year, and would block a guy in Blackmon who can actually hit lefties. Plus we have to get Wheeler ML playing time this year. And in fact Tyler Colvin may not be much worse either. I don’t really see a place for him.
by BostonTransplant on Jan 16, 2012 8:41 AM MST up reply actions
I agree, PetroCW alllowed me to see that he really isn’t very good. Might as well bring up Blackmon who likely can atleast field
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 8:43 AM MST up reply actions
How exactly is Smith a bad fielder?
If he’s a bad fielder based on one year of data in which he played the most innings in RF in his career, then I hope you’re aware that makes Cuddyer’s defense Hawpe-esque.
Smith is a bad fielder based on my eye test
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 8:48 AM MST up reply actions
Both UZR and TZ rate him as a good left fielder in his largest samples
2009 and 2010. Both also rated him as a good in RF in 2010.
UZR saw him as a little below average in LF last year, and TZ saw him as really bad in LF last year. Both saw him as really bad in RF last year.
On my eye test he’s an average fielder, but better off in left.
well hes a 4th OF now, and i think the argument is, is if he can’t hit LHP, can’t field very well, and we alreay have a LHspecialist on the bench, there isn’t a spot for him on the team, at least Blackmon can field, and + we alreay have Colvin too. My guess is they will want Blackmon to start in the minors anyways So Colvin is probably our 4th OF
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 8:54 AM MST up reply actions
There are like three people saying he's a bad fielder
Yes, he’s a 4th OF (which is a given with the Cuddyer signing).
And, btw, in Blackmon’s largest minor league sample vs. LHP his line looks suspiciously like Smith’s minor league line.
Blackmon is the future only in the sense that he will be significantly cheaper than Smith in 2013. But for next year, or at least the first half, I’d rather have Smith. Especially if that is the only option versus trading him for a C prospect.
how is having a bat that hits 130 wRC+ against RH pitching on the bench a bad thing?
That sure as hell beats out Tyler Colvin (career 82 wRC+ vs RH)
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by purplesocks on Jan 16, 2012 10:05 AM MST up reply actions
No, I disagree
Cuddyer is a better fielder than Smith, by a fairly large margin if only in terms of arm strength (Cuddyer’s is one of the better ones in baseball). Smith is one of the outfielders that does poorly in both the metrics and eye test. He’s just bad, especially range-wise.
by BostonTransplant on Jan 16, 2012 8:49 AM MST up reply actions
one must recognize that the.metrics were not nearly as rough on him until 2011
he was actually average to slightly above then.
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
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by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 16, 2012 8:52 AM MST via Android app up reply actions
either the metrics opened their eyes or seth smith got extremely stiff/afraid to do much in the field
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 8:56 AM MST up reply actions
by my eyes, Smith was much, much worse defensively in 2011
by leaps and bounds stumbles and falls
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 16, 2012 9:04 AM MST via Android app up reply actions
I totally agree with this
Before 2011 Smith seemed like an average fielder in my eye test. Then last year he took some weird routes and tried sliding for catches way too much
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by purplesocks on Jan 16, 2012 10:06 AM MST up reply actions
He played about 550 more innings in RF
than previous seasons combined. So, there may have been some adjustment even with his previous experience. It could also be that he’s not that great in RF (but probably not as bad as 2011 indicated).
Given that his good numbers in LF also dropped in limited play, I’m guessing he tried to do something differently based on the majority position and it backfired.
makes sense...l hope he flgures lt out because l lke the guy
In all things, it is better to hope than despair.
With all due respect,
Cuddyer is a really bad fielder, both by objective metrics and by my eye test (I’ve watched him in person dozens of times over the last two years). TZ rated him 10 runs or more below average three times (2006, 2007, and 2010), and slightly above average only in limited samples in 2008 and 2011). UZR grades his RF defense horribly in 2006, 2007, 2009, and 2010).
He is, in every way, worse a fielder than Smith. And, Brad Hawpe also had good arm strength…
We'll just have to see
I’ve seen him personally as well many times, and he’s just fine. His arm strength and good routes makes up for his lack of speed. Aren’t too many RF’ers out there who are actually good fielders.
by BostonTransplant on Jan 16, 2012 9:12 AM MST up reply actions
I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen him unable to judge the distance of a ball, and watch it sail right over his head onto or short of the track.
He’s a terrible fielder, and it’s a huge mistake to think he’ll be able to handle it for 1.5 or 2 seasons in Coors.
where is it you live? Wisconsin? Minnesota?
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 16, 2012 9:18 AM MST via Android app up reply actions
I plan on moving there this summer.. love the twin cities
"Don't give up, don't ever give up" - Jim Valvano
by nodakroxfan on Jan 16, 2012 9:41 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
And move away in the Winter.
Don’t get me wrong, I love the Twin Cities, but I’m really tired of these Midwestern Winters.
Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
Coming from six years in DC and NC before this, I completely agree. We’ve been pretty fortunate this year, though.
Oh totally. I could have gone out and played golf 2 weeks ago.
And yesterday is great sledding weather. I’ve been in Iowa for close to 10 years now, and I am done with the wind and the frigid temps. I miss my Colorado and Southern Nevada winters. Vegas had wind, but I still didn’t mind going outside on a windy day.
Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
The winters are even worse up here
"Don't give up, don't ever give up" - Jim Valvano
by nodakroxfan on Jan 16, 2012 10:29 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
I don't doubt it.
I would have to be offered a job that payed upwards around $150K a year to consider moving to NoDak.
Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
I don't mean to get so worked up about Cuddyer
It’s not like he’s going to be logging 1300 innings in RF, and he’s not that bad of a hitter. But I’m have a tough time with the Cuddyer > Smith in the field idea.
Granted, I’ve never been to Coors and can’t recall if Smith played in the Rockies games I went to at Target or in DC. So, I’ve only got TV and metrics to go on.
ive watched my fair share of twins games and yes he does misjudge fly balls, but his arm strenth is a +
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 9:43 AM MST up reply actions
It's a positive, but it's largely negated by the fact that
instead of: catch and throw, it’s always: run, pick up, throw.
And, Fangraphs graded his arm as just a little above average in 2011 (close to Torii Hunter and Nate Schierholtz). Since 2007, he also grades out just a little above average (comparable to Schierholtz and Jay Bruce).
Arm strength, which Brad Hawpe had, did not make Brad Hawpe a good fielder.
I"ve never seen that
But granted, I don’t live in Minny and maybe by chance I’ve never seen him have a bad game. The folks on the Twins blogs don’t really think of him that way, though.
by BostonTransplant on Jan 16, 2012 9:37 AM MST up reply actions
That, I think, is largely a product of him being
a) an above average hitter, b) beloved by the local media, c) treated like a son by Gardenhire, and d) relatively healthy compared to Morneau and Mauer.
Those are good, and apparently things the Rockies were looking for in a FA RH hitter. But price and defense are definitely open for debate.
I'm more interested in how he fields 1b.
I think long term he’s going to see more time at 1b than RF
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
That's pretty dependent on what happens with Todd in 2013
but I thought he looked decent at first (UZR thought he was good last year, both UZR and TZ thought his prior substantive work to be below average).
He’s definitely not a 3B, but I’ve seen him make some incredibly agile plays in the infield. He seems to react to balls much better there (even if his quickness is limited), probably because the IF is his natural territory.
I really want to know about his footwork around the bag and how good the is when he's recieving errant throws.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Can't speak to that at 1B
When he wasn’t in the OF, I saw more of him at 3B. He reacted well, but didn’t look particularly great on the retrieving end of things. I don’t know enough about technique to speak about positioning and footwork though.
It's one of those things Metrics don't tell you;
Not to rag on the metrics. It’s what I liked about Mike Fast’s work with catcher defining a real skill.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Lots of rumors about possibilities of Billy Butler for Phil Hughes deal? Probably just rumors created by NY Media that thinks that they are equal, but that could seriously not happen right? I already think that the MLB could be rigged after that trade that happened this past weekend with Pineda and Montero.
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
there is no way that would happen
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 8:43 AM MST up reply actions
Oswalt (again)
Sheesh. If he goes to the Red Sox then that puts a lie to the notion that he won’t come to Denver because it’s a bad pitcher’s park. Fenway is just as bad, and he’d be facing AL East offenses instead of NL West. Don’t think it’s going to happen because the Sox swear they won’t increase payroll this year (and really have no one to move to make room), but still … COME ON, DAN! Make an effort. It’s only for one year!
by BostonTransplant on Jan 16, 2012 9:39 AM MST reply actions
Why on Earth wouldn't we have the money?
If we trade Smith for a prospect and cut Slowey, that’s $5 of the $8m right there. And we’re at least $5m under 2011 budget by everyone’s count. I wish Renck or someone would put O’Dowd on the spot about this. If we go into the season having raised ticket prices, drawn 3 million fans last year, and cut payroll, there will be some raised eyebrows in a lot of places.
by BostonTransplant on Jan 16, 2012 10:07 AM MST up reply actions
Slowey's contract, like most in MLB, is guaranteed right?
So, we’d only be saving the league minimum if someone else signed him.
Slowey's contract isn't guaranteed.
(thank god)
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
by Gasstation1 on Jan 16, 2012 10:20 AM MST up reply actions
I just saw it as he signed a contract to avoid arbitration
and while I could see the incentive to sign a non-guaranteed contract to avoid taking a hit on the $2.7M 2010 salary in arbitration, it wouldn’t seem like big enough of a hit is possible to merit signing a non-guaranteed contract.
Renck says its non-guaranteed but i don't really know the specifics behind it
PRMLB - Tampa Bay Rays
by purplesocks on Jan 16, 2012 10:33 AM MST up reply actions
I'm guessing there is an out clause
for Slowly to become a free agent if he doesn’t make the club out of Phoenix.
O'Dowd said last week
in an interview that any more signings would be of the non-roster verity. I’m believing that revenue is not as strong as you think, and the budget will have to suffer this year.
Oh, and it’s not Dan who sets the budget.
They're going to have to justify that publicly, I think
Doesn’t pass the smell test, and I for one swore I would never call the Montforts cheap after the Cargo/Tulo deals. Off the top of my head, I can’t think of a team that cut payroll — very deliberately, as the result of trading a bunch of guys not just losing them to FA — after almost filling their house the previous season AND raising ticket prices. Sure, I get it when the Rays and Pirates claimed poverty, but we have a different situation.
If we’re talking about a one year deal for a FA pitcher, and that one year’s salary would only take us up to last year’s payroll, I really don’t see how you can justify not doing it (other than in baseball terms of course — maybe we don’t think he would be an improvement.)
by BostonTransplant on Jan 16, 2012 10:53 AM MST up reply actions
The last time Renck was asked about this
his response was that Oswalt didn’t show much interest in pitching in Denver. Whether it’s because he thinks Fenway is better that way, or the Sawx are more competitive, or he just really likes Chowdah, I’m not sure the fact that he would sign with Boston means that he would have been interested in Colorado after all…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Jan 16, 2012 11:06 AM MST up reply actions
Everyone make sure to check to front page at the top of the hour
We have a little surprise for you
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 16, 2012 10:39 AM MST reply actions
Lets see
8 million for the year. Lets say he makes 25 starts. If we get 100 of us together, it comes out to 3,200 per person.
I wonder if you got enough Colorado Rockies fans together
If we could get that cost down to 320 per person, or maybe half of that. If we could convince the team to get Oswalt.
Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
You have finally got evidence that SDCat is a real person?
Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
Linky?
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
No such thing
But what is on the FP now is pretty darn cool
Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
What FP?
I don’t facebook or tweet.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Intriguing
Die-hard Rockies fan since 1993.
Poo-Bah of the San Diego Padres in the Purple Row OOTP League.
@Paul_Franz
My blerg
by EmersonCR on Jan 16, 2012 10:46 AM MST via Android app up reply actions
Are you sure? Because I hate being let down
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 10:52 AM MST up reply actions
Did they get a crystal ball
And can guarantee that the Rockies will be the 2012 WS Champions?
Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
psst....You can check for yourself now
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 16, 2012 11:07 AM MST up reply actions
you wrote about smith's salary!
that was so totally my idea from the draft thread. i feel all warm and fuzzy inside now.
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Whoa
Rockies Colorado Rockies
#Rockies acquire RHP Guillermo Moscoso & LHP Josh Outman from Oakland in exchange for OF Seth Smith.
Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
Get Out, Man!
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Jan 16, 2012 11:34 AM MST up reply actions
I'm trying to wrap my head around this...
2 SP for Smith? At first glance this is beyond my wildest all young arm acquiring dreams…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Jan 16, 2012 11:37 AM MST up reply actions
Why is the FO acquiring starters with low GB%?
Not necessarily a bad deal, but Slowey, Moscoso and Outman (SSS on latter two) all have career rates under 40%.
To help our road wins possibly?
But this puts me in full Baseball mode now.
Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
wow Mosocoso had a 27% GB rate last year
PRMLB - Tampa Bay Rays
by purplesocks on Jan 16, 2012 11:40 AM MST up reply actions
moscoso's numbers in the low minors were sick
then he got traded to texas and something must have changed
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Still looked pretty good in 2009 AAA
Really like that BB rate. The growing pains could be a product of just pitching more against better competition. But the K and BB rates in his first full season with Oak are still decent.
it's interesting that he couldn't strand runners,
and got BABIP lucky. that doesn’t often happen together
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Outman's GB rates are typically much better in the minors.
I’d go by them. Moscoso and Slowey are more FB pitchers, so your point’s kind of valid there, although I feel it’s a bit overstated how damaging it is in Coors Field. We’ve tended to have bad FB pitchers, but the good FB oriented pitchers (like Betancourt) seem to do alright.
Hard to compare a FB starter vs. a FB reliever
It’s gotta be easier to get away with mistakes when you’re pitching an inning at a time.
Pardon my ignorance, but where can I find Outman’s minor league GB numbers?
I love firstinning
It’s a huge part of Pebble Report research. Except it was down for a couple weeks last year, and I never went back to see if they filled in the lost data
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 16, 2012 11:49 AM MST up reply actions
outman seems to have worse splits in the coliseum as well
too SSS to make anything of it, but it’s interesting
arenado: it's Rockie for future
What's Moscoso's HR/FB rate adjusted for Oakland?
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Even with the relatively low GB% in his MLB stats
he is still above league average in GIDP%, so it seems like he may have the ability to draw a GB in a critical spot.
Moscoso’s FB/GB splits scare me more, though… His HR% is actually slightly below league average, but part of that is undoubtedly ballpark, and at Coors even FB that don’t leave the yard can be big trouble…
Moscoso is, however from (everybody say it together….) Venezuela!
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Jan 16, 2012 11:47 AM MST up reply actions
Wait.... we did what??? Really?
I don’t care what O’Dowd does from here on out… he wins the offseason with this trade.
It's Jim Tracy's Fault.
Poor Seth Smith, going to Oakland.
Looks like a good deal.
@DylanZable
by CentralCaliRox on Jan 16, 2012 11:46 AM MST up reply actions
Aint going to help his HR numbers there!
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
I like this move
I just read Outman is likely to be a bullpen piece for this upcoming season? Seems like he should have a shot to compete for a spot in the rotation. If not, we haven’t brought in an innings eater and having a guy like Outman might be a nice long relief type guy for us.
Moscoso is intriguing. He seems like a good candidate to regress in Denver but I got my fingers crossed that he adapts. We’ll see.
Got to say I find this a more than acceptable haul for Smith. Even if both guys flame out here in Denver I’d still support the move.
That sounds like a chunk of their planned rotation?
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Possibly.
I know there was discussion a couple weeks ago about how some of us wanted Outman.
Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
They signed Colon yesterday, though,
I wondered about that because I’d have Outman than Colon, and probably Moscoso too. They must have know this was coming.
Smith + Colon > Outman + Moscoso
At least for next year. But this is a nice return for just Smith. And definitely certifies the premise of yesterday’s Rockpile. Very cheap, very much team controlled.
And The Rox set Smith's price tag for Beane
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
I feel like you're best qualified to write up a FP post on this
since you were championing Outman weeks ago
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 16, 2012 11:45 AM MST up reply actions
I THOUGHT THE SURPRISE WAS SUPPOSE TO BE THE GUEST COLUMN
FREAK OUT
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 11:43 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
You have no idea how far my influence reaches
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 16, 2012 11:45 AM MST up reply actions
sneaky sneaky sneaky
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 11:47 AM MST up reply actions
How are you coming on Prado?
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Jan 16, 2012 11:48 AM MST up reply actions
So will Appodaca allow Outman to revert to his original pitching mechanics?
Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
teach him a cutter, too
arenado: it's Rockie for future
so many questions? to be answered…this is at least two days worth of discussions
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 11:48 AM MST up reply actions
yaya
PR finally has something new to talk about!
arenado: it's Rockie for future
This definitely takes me out of my football funk.
Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
I was spending some time this morning trying to find teams with decent 2b depth
That could use an outfielder. Glad I can stop that waste of time.
Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
This Rockpile was beginning to depress me
I figured we would be stuck with Smith being a Left Handed Pinch hitter, and we once again failed to trade a player at his peak value.
I always liked Smith, but it was time to move on, and I love the idea of getting 2 young arms with some upside for him. Way more then I was expecting.
It's Jim Tracy's Fault.
by wolf213 on Jan 16, 2012 11:53 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
First; what are their contract status, and Dac must be feeling like a kid at Christmas with all his new toys ?
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
At least they have cool names?
Anyway, I guess we’ll just toss them into the pile of question marks we have collected.
Yes!
Now we can definately use the 8 man rotation I have been talking about
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
Outman
A guy who can dial it up to the mid-90s, but will mostly sit 92-93 (good velocity for a LHP). Will throw offspeed as strikeout pitches, with a good slider and curveball.
- starter in 2012??
Guillermo Moscoso looks like RafBet. Almost threw a no-hitter last year, but doesn’t have the greatest stuff and relies on precise command.
I like the deal.
@DylanZable
by CentralCaliRox on Jan 16, 2012 11:54 AM MST reply actions
Whoops, didn't mean to press that.
Should read number 5 starter in 2012.
We still have a gaping hole at second base. Are we really going to rely on Chris Nelson/DJ-Math there, or do we go out and get a Keppinger?
Offseason not over yet, I think.
@DylanZable
by CentralCaliRox on Jan 16, 2012 11:56 AM MST up reply actions
Just a couple million.
I’m hoping someone does a RP about how much money we have left. Can’t be more than $5 million, with what the reports have been saying.
@DylanZable
by CentralCaliRox on Jan 16, 2012 12:00 PM MST up reply actions
I really don’t see us doing much more at 2nd Base. I think we are gonna roll with what we got unless its a for sure upgrade
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 12:05 PM MST up reply actions
Thank god we got Josh Outman and not Josh Hitman
Or Josh Walkman.
Good thing we never had Nick Swisher?
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Grant Balfour is in Oakland
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 16, 2012 12:00 PM MST up reply actions
Amazing what a year does, we go from very very little pitching depth, to absolutely amazing pitching depth. I mean sure it depends how you look at it, but we have for sure lik 10 AAAA guys.
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
10 AAAA guys
might not even equal 1 MLB guy. Some of them could work out, but its really not a sure thing on any of them. I would like Moscoso if he were a bit younger and we didn’t play ball in Denver.
Seth Smith was not as useful anymore anyway so I have no gripes with this deal, but lets not get too excited here.
it was a lot of sarcasm, but its okay I hide my casms well
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 12:38 PM MST up reply actions
I thought we had good depth last year?
My memory could be failing me, but I remember last offseason talking about how much our SP depth had improved and was going to propel us to a divisional title.
Also, what are they going to do with all of the AAAA arms? Obviously they can’t all start for the Rockies, and pitching for the Sky Sox won’t help them or the organization. I suppose some of them go to the bullpen, but then when we need the depth because of injury or whatever they won’t be ready.
that was a mean thing to say
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 12:29 PM MST up reply actions
muzia is jumping for joy
arenado: it's Rockie for future
via Sports Tax Man
I found this interesting so I thought I would share
Various Per Diems: MLB $92.50 for 2011 NBA $120 for 2011/12 NFL $95 for 2011 NHL approx $98 for 11/12 UFC $50 NCAA Student Athletes $35
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
I can't wait until the NCAA is defunct
Hopefully the soon-to-come days of Super Conferences will hasted its demise.
I suppose you could eat decent on $35 a day, if you eat applebees and mcdonalds all the time.
If I’m in the NBA, I am going to Mortons Steakhouse twice a day
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 12:51 PM MST up reply actions
haha kinda what I thought too…I played football for small NAIA school, we usually just got our own Medium pizza and a gatorade, nothing like 1000 calories to keep ya healthy, but it was cheap
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 1:17 PM MST up reply actions
Renck
In short, this leaves Blackmon, EY Jr, Colvin, Hoffman competing for final two spots. Also, Rox still looking for a second baseman.
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
JFK's Quote of the Day:
"Don’t ever forget the two things I’m going to tell you. One, don’t believe everything that’s written about you. Two, don’t pick up too many checks." ~George Herman Ruth
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
JFK
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