Rockies trade Seth Smith for Josh Outman, Guillermo Moscoso
by Rox Girl on Jan 16, 2012 11:51 AM MST
in Transactions & Rumors
Email
PrintAfter weeks of trade speculation surrounding Seth Smith and just a few hours after inking the outfielder to a 2012 contract, the Rockies have traded him to the Oakland Athletics for a pair of starting pitchers, Josh Outman and Guillermo Moscoso.
Outman spent the early part of last season recovering from Tommy John surgery and eventually went 5-8 with a 3.70 ERA for Oakland, while Moscoso had a 3,38 ERA in 21 starts for the A's.
I've been suggesting for some time that the Rockies look into Outman as a possible fit, the left hander has had very solid groundball rates in the minors and seemed to be a possible bargain with a crowded A's rotation. He should provide stiff competition to Kevin Slowey for the final spot in the Rockies rotation this Spring, or alternatively could allow for further minor league seasoning of rookie Drew Pomeranz. That the Rockies were also able to add Moscoso, a more FB oriented pitcher with sharp movement on his pitches, particularly a cut fastball, that could play up in the bullpen or perhaps be used in another deal seems to be a bit of a coup for Dan O'Dowd. With these two additions, the Rockies rotation for 2012 would seem to be pretty much set (well, set as far as who will be competing for the five slots) and the team can focus on filling out its bullpen or looking for a fit at second base.
UPDATE: It seems the Rockies might be reversing that above plan, with Moscoso perhaps set to compete for the rotation slot and Outman being looked at as a bullpen arm... or maybe not, says O'Dowd via Troy Renck:
"We will have a raging competition in spring for spots''
475 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
On with the Arms Race
#OccupyAllYoungArms
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
So that gives us
Pom
White
Bettis
Chatwood
Outman
Moscosso
Nacasio
Hammel
Chacin
Slowly
Am I missing anyone? It should be easy to make a decent 5 man rotation with these arms.
It's Jim Tracy's Fault.
JDLR
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 12:06 PM MST up reply actions
I assume he won't be ready to go come April
but he can fill in for whoever is struggling come June.
It's Jim Tracy's Fault.
yes
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 12:12 PM MST up reply actions
along with Friedrich, Cabrera, and Anderson potentially close…
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
PRMLB: The Brew Crew
Cabrera is going to be a stud #GutFeeling
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 12:09 PM MST up reply actions
My #GutFeeling is Bettis. I’ve got mancrush on him; I hope they don’t convert him to the pen.
by squalene203 on Jan 16, 2012 12:20 PM MST up reply actions
If only the front office listened to our #GutFeelings, we would be awesome
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 12:48 PM MST up reply actions
#FreeChrisNelson
Sometimes I think my gut feelings are just indigestion…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Jan 16, 2012 1:39 PM MST up reply actions
Or Angina
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Nah, I'm a young(ish) foagie... :-)
at least at heart…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Jan 16, 2012 2:15 PM MST up reply actions
Gardner and Scahill were SP that showed well in the AFL
Both are more likely relief options at this point.
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 16, 2012 12:09 PM MST up reply actions
Rogers, Gardner and Scahill
President of Baseball Operations for the PRMLB Atlanta Braves
Do Outman and Moscoso count as young arms by our standards?
They’ll be 27 and 28 in 2012
Outman lost time due to TJ surgry, he doesn't have to many miles on his arm.
I think we traded Smith for two pitchers that can give us Jason Hammel type production. Thats a good deal to me.
It's Jim Tracy's Fault.
I'm not saying it was a bad deal
Just pointing out that 27 and 28 year olds are like senior citizens for our pitching staff
The pressure is now on Jason Hammel to turn around, or he's gone too.
"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"
Luftfeuchtigkeitsregler über alles.
by The Lodo Magic Man on Jan 16, 2012 1:09 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
In a single offseason...
Have lost almost all my favorite players: Ian Stewart, Seth Smith, and Spilly…
Sigh, this season is going to be a transition year for me personally.
I believe.
agreed
Smith, Ubaldo, Iannetta, Spilly, Stewart….
Tough offseason to be a fan.
wait, what are you still doing here?
shouldn’t you be over on athletics nation?
arenado: it's Rockie for future
It took a little while, but indeed, Keith Law doesn't get what the Rockies are doing
@keithlaw
Indeed. Outman’s no great fit either. RT @bleachers146: @keithlaw Um, Moscoso at Coors Field… Yikes
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 16, 2012 12:04 PM MST reply actions
Keith Law can kiss my Purple Ass
It's Jim Tracy's Fault.
by wolf213 on Jan 16, 2012 12:07 PM MST up reply actions 7 recs
Ya know; With all the depraved pitchers parks we play in I'm not worried as much about Moscoso's FB rate. Not to give Tracy matchup ideas but I've thought it wise to be able to matchup FB pitchers against GB hitters and Vice Versa..
It also gives somebody in the rotation with a different look to scramble the groove.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Here's something I uncovered recently about that exact point
From 1974, this very entertaining piece describes the theories of one Walter Lappe who believed GB vs FB matchups were the key to winning games: It’s written by Jim Bouton and is quite fun to read
very interesting
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 12:19 PM MST up reply actions
i remember you posted that a while back as well
did you ever have nay luck finding one?
arenado: it's Rockie for future
You mean a Baseball Brain?
Nope, they’re lost to the mists of time. It would be fun to have one to play with a bit. I’m sure there are some sitting deep in junk drawers somewhere.
Being a Mets fan I was aware of the article. The old Elias Anylist was hot about it into the middle 90's and very much vindicated Lappe's work.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Gotta feel bad for Smith....
At least if you assume Smitty enjoys playing for actual paying customers and having at least a chance of getting to the postseason in the next decade.
Oakland, in terms of climate, is a nice place to live
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 12:10 PM MST up reply actions
And, because it's cheaper to live there, Oakland is on the come up...
among hipsters and artist types. The uptown area has a fun bar scene. Nowhere near the pretentiousness of that in S.F.
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
in terms of a ball club, no pressure to win, only about 3,000 people at home games to see you screw up
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 12:10 PM MST up reply actions
I am sure it is a good trade,
But I get to really like these players, especially Smith.
First Hitler video I ever saw was regarding Seth Smith.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiU-ncNbGGQ
Is it just me or does the team overreact just about every year to the previous year's weaknesses?
Shallow bench depth? Sign every UTIL player!
Thin pitching depth? Sign 15 pitchers!
If I was Smith I’d be very depressed thinking about that stadium.
"Because I am a Rockie." - Todd
Josh Willingham could do it
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 16, 2012 12:10 PM MST up reply actions
so next year we will probably have like 5 infielders added?
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 12:14 PM MST up reply actions
Any Chance we could parley some of these guys for Kinsler at the trade deadline?
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
is there any chance we can sign Fielder?
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 12:17 PM MST up reply actions
I think Texas Damn near has him signed
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
I believe so too, predicted them once the season ended
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 12:19 PM MST up reply actions
Why would Texas do that???
If they are in the thick of things, they won’t be selling.
It's Jim Tracy's Fault.
It sounds like NR is not pleased with the amount of time IK has spent on the DL and is thinking of keeping Hamilton and Fielder but not Kinsler.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
where are you getting that?
every impression i’ve seen is that kinsler is their key player
arenado: it's Rockie for future
I had a conversation with my brother whose Blog is Astros Daily. He has some contacts in Texas'Org.
I think Hamilton and Kinsler are both injury prone so I don’t don’t know why Kinsler instead of Hamilton unless they think he’ll regress faster.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Hamilton has missed 143 games in the last three years
Kinsler has missed 74 in the same span, and plays better defense at a tougher position while providing phenomenal production with the bat.
yeah, keeping hamilton over kinsler makes no sense to me
arenado: it's Rockie for future
lol
kinsler isn’t going anywhere for a long time
arenado: it's Rockie for future
I remember Smith cracking an absolute missile in Oakland a year or two ago that went out to right center. Maybe that’s what was going through Billy Beane’s head when he ok’ed the deal.
by squalene203 on Jan 16, 2012 12:27 PM MST up reply actions
Josh Outman is left handed. And he wears number 88. And these socks.
I have a new favorite player.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
Stud
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 12:15 PM MST up reply actions
The last name is pretty much perfect for a ML pitcher, as well.
"Ready are you? What know you of ready?"
Yoda
Stirrups! That might help me get over missing Ubaldo.
"Are they called the Rockies because they rock?" - 7 y.o.
by glaucophane on Jan 16, 2012 12:31 PM MST up reply actions
Outman gonna out
/gotnothing
"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"
Luftfeuchtigkeitsregler über alles.
by The Lodo Magic Man on Jan 16, 2012 1:11 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Now, I shall begin my annual gripe about CoSpgs
If we had a AAA affiliate that didn’t play in a pitcher-destroying ballpark, we’d be set up wonderfully. Keep some guys at Coors, send others to AAA, let them all sort out and package who’s left over for deals.
Instead, what do we do? Send 26 and 27 year old guys to Tulsa? Let them go to CoSpgs and get blown up?
I appreciate having a AAA affiliate so close, but Security Field is no longer sustainable. Build a new park in the Springs, move ’em to Boulder or NoCo, but do something.
move them to the swamps in Louisiana, where its so humid the ball doesn’t even move, build up their stats, and trade them for matcupzzzzzzz
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 12:16 PM MST up reply actions
Ummm... The PCL is full of high altitude parks.
So if they move from my home and native C-Springs, then they still play Reno, Salt Lake, Albuquerque, and other high altitude locations. Not forget that they will still play at Coors Field that is high altitude. If they suck in CS, they will suck in Denver and Phoenix. Altitude is overrated.
I believe.
by Lost Winter on Jan 16, 2012 12:23 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
It's not about altitude
It’s about Security Field sitting out on a bluff in the middle of a jet stream. You can build a ball park in almost any other part of the Springs and it would be fine.
There’s a reason the Rockies don’t send top pitching prospects to AAA and it has nothing to do with protecting them from Reno or Salt Lake.
With the announcement of the four-year extension with the Sky Sox the other day,
I wonder if they are finally getting close to installing a humidor there. It would certainly help and it seemed like the Rox were upset with the lack of one.
Attempted murder? Now honestly, what is that? Do they give a Nobel Prize for attempted chemistry?
Renck says we're not done yet
Moscoso and Outman will both compete for rotation spots. Rox also close to signing a veteran starter for depth, but not Millwood
PRMLB - Tampa Bay Rays
maybe we could a wait a couple days, spread out the entertainment?
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 12:20 PM MST up reply actions
Edwin Jackson
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 12:18 PM MST up reply actions
oh god please
Purple Row - For all of your Colorado Rockies-related needs
Learn about Batting Metrics
Learn about Pitching Metrics
PRMLB Marlins
by Andrew Martin on Jan 16, 2012 12:24 PM MST up reply actions
probably like Brandon Webb or something #InningEaterThenHurt
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 12:26 PM MST up reply actions
ben sheets!
arenado: it's Rockie for future
renck shot down the idea of Brad Penny
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 12:54 PM MST up reply actions
good,
penny flat out sucked last year
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Esmil Rogers is looking for a new organization after all this
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 12:18 PM MST up reply actions
dyawwww why nottttttt
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
by Franchise26 on Jan 16, 2012 12:24 PM MST up reply actions
better than the other options, why not
Purple Row - For all of your Colorado Rockies-related needs
Learn about Batting Metrics
Learn about Pitching Metrics
PRMLB Marlins
by Andrew Martin on Jan 16, 2012 12:24 PM MST up reply actions
Why not?
Primarily because I think he is no better, and quite possibly worse, than some of our current options. And I would much rather go into Spring Training and award the pitcher who performs the best the spot that might otherwise be given to Francis.
I'd imagine Francis wouldn't be getting a guaranteed contract
But that’s just a guess
PRMLB - Tampa Bay Rays
by purplesocks on Jan 16, 2012 12:31 PM MST up reply actions
I would like to see Francis back!
At the very least, team HAR would go up.
The off-season sucks.
That is all.
Sure.
Moscoso is an extreme flyball guy who actually put up great surface stats in 20 or so starts last year. Bad peripherals, though. He dishes out flyballs like they’re candy on Halloween, except he allowed a relatively tiny amount of HRs, which indicates luck. We all expected the HR rate to regress upwards, and now that he’s in Coors…yikes. We’ll see, I guess. Nice cutter, great fastball/changeup speed differential. He could be awesome, could regress into absolute uselessness. Not sure what you guys will get.
Outman had Tommy John a couple years back. He should be totally healed now. Didn’t really get too much of a chance to see what he was like immediately after rehabbing, because the rotation was full. Before the surgery, he threw 93-94 from the left side, which was nice. Decent innings eater.
Oh, and Outman’s dad taught Josh a bizarre delivery that him and his younger brother used in high school. He converted to a regular delivery later on…but the old one is so blindingly cool/freaky that it has to be seen. Unfortunately, Driveline Mechanics was taken down, so I can’t find it quite yet, but I’ll poke around.
Cool thanks
So Moscoso sounds like a Matt Cain ceiling (I can dream).
94 from the left side is pretty cool too.
by squalene203 on Jan 16, 2012 12:30 PM MST up reply actions
Yeah, in a perfect world,
he can sustain that low HR/FB ratio. No idea if it was him or luck, though. Guess you’ll see.
When Hammel was aquired their was some worry about his Flyball rate as well
I think people panic a little to much over fly balls at Coors Field.
It's Jim Tracy's Fault.
Hammel's GB rate has been consistently 20% higher than Moscoso's (minor and majors)
Kind of a different story. The concern with Hammel was over the 6% difference in his 2007 and 2008 numbers, and whether the 2007 number would look worse with an increase HR/FB rate due to Coors. It didn’t, but that might have most to do with his GB rate staying closer to the higher 2008 number while he’s been a Rockie.
Not gonna lie Moscoso in coors scares me right now
PRMLB - Tampa Bay Rays
by purplesocks on Jan 16, 2012 12:32 PM MST up reply actions
Cain pitches well at Coors
It can be done!
by squalene203 on Jan 16, 2012 12:34 PM MST up reply actions
Cain pitches wellat Coors
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 12:44 PM MST up reply actions
Plus half our games are played AWAY from Coors
I get what everyone’s saying, but at some point if you roll 5 sinker/slider guys out in a row you’re going to get pounded. You need a mix of styles in your rotation, especially for the road series.
"The game of baseball is made up of many little things. If we do all the little things right, then we'll never have a big thing to worry about" -- Cal Ripken, Sr.
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #3
Sometimes I've had crazy thoughts like that
Two rotations: A 3-man on the road, a 4-man at home. Have a couple of guys with option years on the 40-man to fill in the schedule gaps where you really need 4 and 5. Take Giambi off the roster and long relief out of the pen (have a guy from the “other” rotation available for long relief).
Probably wouldn’t work, and not even La Russa would actually try it, but it does have its advantages.
"The game of baseball is made up of many little things. If we do all the little things right, then we'll never have a big thing to worry about" -- Cal Ripken, Sr.
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #3
Totally agree
I’d love to have a 4man “everywhere” rotation – with one starter who’s mostly used at Coors (fastball/changeup/sinker type) and one starter who’s mostly road (fastball/slider/curve type) – and two long relievers one mainly home and one mainly away. And fewer one inning only pitchers
Not to be a total stick in the mud ...
But Cain’s younger, and his strikeout rate is a lot higher than Moscoso’s. He’s not Jason Marquis out there.
by Grant Brisbee on Jan 16, 2012 1:25 PM MST up reply actions
GASP!
a villain be present!
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Burn the witch!!!!!!
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Jan 16, 2012 1:45 PM MST up reply actions
I don't actually
I’m just not really all that bothered if it turns out I was wrong…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Jan 16, 2012 2:16 PM MST up reply actions
FALSE. MATT CAIN = JASON HAMMEL. LOOK AT fWAR
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 16, 2012 1:29 PM MST up reply actions
hahahahaha what the shit
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
by Franchise26 on Jan 16, 2012 12:34 PM MST up reply actions
Collmenterish
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 16, 2012 12:38 PM MST up reply actions
funny that it took like 1 year of pitching in a trad windup for Outman to
need TJ
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
that's like watching matzek's training videos on acid
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Yeah, but how would you like to have to face that?
I want to see Outman pitch like that at Coors.
Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
A part of me desperately wanted Outman to go back to that after returning from the surgery.
I can’t imagine how he’d get any lateral movement, though.
From what I had read about the Outman method
The starting position is all about hiding the pitch better and reducing strain on the elbow, but I’m just a computer scientist. Nobody wants to hear my opinions.
Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
It looked to me like you had ample opportunity to see the grip on the ball for a long time.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Stolen base every time I get on
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
JFK
Stolen base every time I get on
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
JFK
the pick off move was actually pretty good from the video on the
outman method blog
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Yeah ... I posted that awhile ago ...
And I say let him use that delivery … I mean for the entertainment value alone you get two strikes before the batter stops giggling.
Good stuff. Since I can't yet post on your board, here's a quick Smitty primer
Not a heralded prospect. Caught everyone’s attention by his pinch hitting performance. Absolute nails as a PH late and close, thus the nickname “Mr. Late Night”.
Against righties, he’s smooth as silk. Reminded me (and I’m old) of Lou Piniella. Line drives, used the whole field. This all got him a ticket intot e everyday lineup, where two major flaws were exposed:
- He just can’t hit lefties. We thought he’d improve with more exposure to them, but he regressed.
- He a major defensive liability. No natural instincts at all.
He’d be a terrific lefty DH in a platoon. Or, if he went back to his original strength, a fine PH. As an everyday player? No.
Good guy too, from all accounts, BTW.
Sweet, thanks.
Oh, and I just activated your membership over at AN, so you don’t have to worry about the 24-hour waiting period.
What Velocity does Moscoo/Outman sit at
and also, plus pitches for any of them?
It's Jim Tracy's Fault.
Would either guy be a better fit out of the bullpen, stuff-wise? Obviously we have like a billion rotation candidates, but we could use another relief arm.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
by Franchise26 on Jan 16, 2012 12:20 PM MST up reply actions
Outman has some experience out of the pen.
I don’t think Moscoso ever worked as a reliever as an Athletic. That said, both of them have 4 pitches.
is moscoso as filthy as his name sounds?
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 12:20 PM MST up reply actions
Heh.
Oh, also, apparently he pronounces it “gee-JAIR-mo”. Not the usual “gee-YAIR-mo”. At least, that’s what our color commentator mentioned.
trying to find his innner Jair Jurrjens i see
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 12:43 PM MST up reply actions
Ooh! I have a question!
Are either likely to go Tonya Harding on a fellow SP in the Great Rotation CageMatch of 2012?
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 16, 2012 12:36 PM MST up reply actions
So, who wants to play “Guess the Opening Day 2012 Pitching Staff?” I’ll start.
Rotation: Chacin, Hammel, Outman, Nicasio, Pomeranz
Bullpen: Betancourt, Belisle, Brothers, Reynolds, Lindstrom, Moscoso, Escalona
Short version of this post: “I have no freaking clue who is pitching for us next year.”
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
I really hope now with all these pitchers we don't have slowey in the starting rotation anymore
I would totally be fine with your rotation and bullpen.
PRMLB - Tampa Bay Rays
by purplesocks on Jan 16, 2012 12:23 PM MST up reply actions
Maybe we can swing a Hammel and Slowey deal for some moreyoung arms
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 12:24 PM MST up reply actions
I'm in the minorty here, but I like Slowly
BB% is elite… I think he might be the most underrated pickup this season.
It's Jim Tracy's Fault.
Slowey pitches Slowly, i like it
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 12:38 PM MST up reply actions
I actually agree with you
He’s still in his late 20’s, healthy, and was very very good for a few years. I think the AL caught up with him to some extent, and that means he may have a couple years in the NL where he’s quite effective.
I’ll hand the ball to anyone who doesn’t walk people. Anyone. But that’s just me.
by BostonTransplant on Jan 16, 2012 2:04 PM MST up reply actions
This could be fun...
Rotation
Chacin
Hammel
Outman
Slowly
Pomeranz
I suspect that Nicasio will need to face more live hitters in AAA before coming back, but I expect him to be inserted mid-may or early June, with DLR shortly after.
Bullpen
Betancourt
Belisle
Brothers
Reynolds
Lindstrom
Moscoso
Chatwood
I think the only locks are: Chacin, Hammel, Betancourt, Belisle, Brothers, Reynolds and Lindstrom, meaning half of our pitching staff is up in the air.
It's Jim Tracy's Fault.
You know, there's a lot of upside there
Also, with all the other guys waiting in the wings, I think we have good odds of building a really young, really studly rotation.
by squalene203 on Jan 16, 2012 12:32 PM MST up reply actions
josh roenicke wonders why you hate him
arenado: it's Rockie for future
This probably makes me a bad fan, but I had completely and utterly forgotten that Josh Roenicke ever pitched for the Rockies. Wasn’t 2011 awesome!
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
by Franchise26 on Jan 16, 2012 12:57 PM MST up reply actions
This is because I wrote about Smith, isn't it.
Purple Row - For all of your Colorado Rockies-related needs
Learn about Batting Metrics
Learn about Pitching Metrics
PRMLB Marlins
Being greedy, aren't you?
"No Mission Too Difficult, No Sacrifice Too Great—Duty First" - 1st Infantry Division Motto
SB Nation Denver - The regional hub for Denver sports!
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Can you write about Jim Tracy?
"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"
Luftfeuchtigkeitsregler über alles.
by The Lodo Magic Man on Jan 16, 2012 1:12 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
This!!
You can compare Jim Tracy to the lyrics of the song Litehouse
And no one’s in the lighthouse
You’re face down in the ocean
And no one’s in the lighthouse
And it seems like you just screamed
It’s no one there to hear the sound
And it may feel like there’s no one there
That cares if you drown
Face down in the ocean
Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
haha I like it
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 1:16 PM MST up reply actions
Another angle of this trade:
How bad were the Jays-A’s-Stros swaps of Michael Taylor, Anthony Gose and Brett Wallace? Maybe Wallace can still develop, but that’s a lot of mish mash now.
We could have dealt Smith straight up for either of these guys and.....
…I don’t think there’d be too much griping. This is really nice return for a guy who wasn’t in our plans and everyone knew was being moved. For a no-leverage situation, this was a goodie.
I liked Grant Brisbees
take on the Pineda Montero trade…not sure if I agree but I liked the take on it
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
But does he fly with a unicorn?
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
JFK
Good luck to Smith
Still not sure how he plummeted so far out of the organization’s favor, but at least the Rockies got a return for him. I was beginning to fear that he’s be auctioned off for scraps, but this looks like a solid trade.
by Northsider1964 on Jan 16, 2012 12:49 PM MST reply actions
I disagree about the Ianetta trade
I’m looking forward to seeing if Chatwood can develop, like his pitches and the power.
Not disagreeing with this trade since he wasn’t in our plans, but not too excited about it either. I think the A’s just gave us Greg Smith #2 and 3.
I like Chatwood as a prospect
but I think we sold very low on CDI. Given what we got for a platoon player who we clearly had no leverage when it came to trading him, I think we could’ve used CDI to fill a 2b hole or get something more then Chatwood.
It's Jim Tracy's Fault.
This trade definitely makes that trade look worse
in comparison and in the team building sense. Chatwood will almost certainly spend the entire season in the minors now, and his best fit at this point could be in the bullpen, which really lowers his potential impact. I didn’t think it was that bad on its own merits and especially considering the Hernandez signing, but the subsequent move here has negated a lot of the benefit we may have gained from Chatwood by redundancy.
on the other hand
no one ever had too many pitchers
arenado: it's Rockie for future
#FreeChatwoodd
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 1:08 PM MST up reply actions
I like Chatwood going forward a lot more than these 2
Yes Moscoso and Outman are more likely to help out next season than Chatwood, but I think we’re going to be very underwhelmed by them.
Again I like the move because we could use the depth and I’m not counting on the rotation putting us in contention anyway with all the development that needs to happen.
I've felt much the same.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Who cares about CDI, we have Willin Rosario, get use to saying that name followed by, Hits a bases clearing double!
Boom
Willin Rosario will be awesome
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 1:09 PM MST up reply actions
instead of Chris Iannetta walks, followed by the Pitcher Strikes Out
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 1:10 PM MST up reply actions
I think Rosario will get a few starts in April and will take the starting catcher role by the balls and run with it
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 1:21 PM MST up reply actions
With all the interest Boston supposedly had in past years
it would’ve been nice to get the Melancon return for CDI.
I would have been Happy to get Lowery for CDI
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Same. Given their catching situation it seemed like an ideal trade for both sides.
RIRF was a big Lowrie advocate.
Oh Well; a nother sailed ship
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
I feared this at first too
I think the A’s just gave us Greg Smith #2 and 3.
But then I went and looked at their numbers more closely. Greg Smith was worse than both in nearly every stat I compared between the three. Outman and Moscoso may not succeed here but they were both better pitchers in Oakland than Greg Smith was.
PRMLB - Tampa Bay Rays
I don’t love either of the two new guys, therefore they will be quite successful.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
by Muzia on Jan 16, 2012 2:12 PM MST via Android app up reply actions
I'd agree. A 220 BA against is nothing to sneeze at ...
And that’s the lesser of the two guys (Moscoso). Fly ball pitchers have done well at Coors before, although admittedly it’s harder. Long as you don’t walk people you’re usually OK. The killer at Coors is guys who rely on fastball movement and have little else in the way of weaponry. Sometimes that actually includes sinker ballers. If you can change speeds and control your stuff, you should do OK.
by BostonTransplant on Jan 16, 2012 2:32 PM MST up reply actions
The problem with this is
At least with Greg Smith #1, we also got CarGo and Huston. The best we can hope for out of this deal is that is proves one of our earlier trades unnecessary.
I would have been fine with this deal had the two players coming back been 19 years old and 4 years away from the bigs. Unless Tracy is planning on going with an 8-10 man rotation, I do not see the purpose of this trade.
And if Tracy is going with an 8-10 man rotation, he needs to be gone yesterday.
In fairness...
We did give up Matt Holliday in that trade. I think all of us would agree that Matt Holliday is much better than Seth Smith
+1
I finding this off season has developed into being a very interesting one. A lot of random moves that on their own are nothing substantial but as a whole infused this team with a lot of young pieces of varying value and with some decent intrigue.
That all said, I still strongly dislike the Iannetta trade. I think he could have been used in a different manner that could have brought us back something more valuable. Same with Street, though I guess it’s hard to gauge the value his cleared salary offered. Not knowing that, I’d rather have kept him on staff but that’s a blind/ignorant statement given I don’t know exactly how valuable that salary relief was to the Rockies.
I really hope this means that we don't see Slowey in the Rockies rotation
unless he really earns it
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
and it's followed by a trade
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Question
You got 10 young pitches with potential awesomeness as a ceiling and varying flame out possibilities as the floor. Mathematically how many get close to his ceiling?
I would say the flame out rate is probably at 65-73%
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 1:23 PM MST up reply actions
Renck
In short, this leaves Blackmon, EY Jr, Colvin, Hoffman competing for final two spots. Also, Rox still looking for a second baseman.
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
I'm curious who his bench IF are in that scenario
Giambi and Pacheco? That leaves no real middle infielder. Giambi and Herrera/Nelson? Pacheco has gotten ink as a likely roster spot.
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 16, 2012 1:25 PM MST up reply actions
I had the same thoughts and wondered if he meant “competeing for one of the final two spots”
If not
Tulo for Ironman
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 1:30 PM MST up reply actions
I still believe that the team is going to forego using a typical middle infield utility player.
The second baseman Nelson/LeMahieu/Herrera will be the backup shortstop, Pacheco slides into second when Tulo needs rest.
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Jan 16, 2012 3:16 PM MST up reply actions
maybe pacheco gets Rosario's spot to start the year
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
I don' expect Pacheco to make the team without another backup catcher.
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Jan 16, 2012 9:25 PM MST up reply actions
"still looking for a second baseman"
Thank you. I hope its someone legit, I’m giving up on our internal options, nothing has began to stick for several seasons, after that I would be very pleased with our lineup.
Man, so Tulo will be the only left from the 2007 squad?
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
todd helton is sad at cracker barrell
arenado: it's Rockie for future
haha gets me everytime
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 1:30 PM MST up reply actions
And Cat is an idiot but not a cracker barrel
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
So no awesomely delicious gravy?
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Jan 16, 2012 2:11 PM MST up reply actions
Crackel Barrel Gravy Recipie
Elmer’s Glue,
Water,
Pepper,
Sausage Grease
Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
You must have been eating at the Cracker Barrel knock-off restaraunt Crackel Barrel.
Easy to make that mistake.
The off-season sucks.
That is all.
Pretty sure the level of kitchey "souvenirs" was adequate for it to be a real Cracker Barrel.
I’d include salt in that ingredients list, but its too bland for them to have used salt.
Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
FAIL
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 16, 2012 1:25 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Yes major fail.......
I’ll resign my Rockies fandom now
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
OH MAN..
I turn in my fan card now.
/ashamed
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
you punishment:
go to the picture thread and post a photo of yourself
arenado: it's Rockie for future
For everyone who's saying that we have too many pitchers
We have 2 bullpen spots wide open right now, Belisle eligible for free agency after next year, Betancourt most likely declining his side of the 2013 mutual option if he’s a successful closer, and Lindstrom eligible for free agency after 2013. We could be building not only a rotation, but a bullpen too for very little money. Moscoso sounds like Betancourt to me and I like Outman being in the rotation until either one of White/Pomeranz is ready, DLR comes back, or if there’s an injury to one of Brothers or Reynolds. Then he could move to the pen.
I would’ve liked to have seen McCarthy, but I’m a huge fan of DOD’s offseason so far.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
interesting
you hate roenicke as well
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Roenicke has a good live arm
I wouldn’t mind him winning a bullpen spot if he had a good Spring Training
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
i'm pretty sure he's got a spot
arenado: it's Rockie for future
3 hours ago I would've agreed
but I don’t know how the Rockies will handle having 10 starting pitchers on the staff
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
I have a pretty good guess…Matchupzzz
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 1:37 PM MST up reply actions
Crowding at AA is going to be a bigger problem than crowding at the MLB level.
Roenicke is one of only five pitchers (six if you include De La Rosa, but he’ll be on the DL out of ST) that can’t be optioned to the minors freely this season.
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Jan 16, 2012 3:20 PM MST up reply actions
yeah that's why i figured he'd pretty much be guaranteed a spot
arenado: it's Rockie for future
He's not quite the kind of player who gets "guaranteed" a roster spot...
… but it does give him a pretty significant tiebreaker over players like Escalona or a converted Chatwood/Outman, etc. The team won’t be afraid to let him go if he doesn’t look good in the Spring though.
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Jan 16, 2012 4:24 PM MST up reply actions
Moscoso has a pretty good dead arm
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 1:36 PM MST up reply actions
This is a good point
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 16, 2012 1:40 PM MST up reply actions
Moscoso is like Betancourt without the strikeouts. Plus less control.
The writer formerly known as Jabberwocky
READ and LEARN about the business of baseball at Purple Row Academy
Eschew Obfuscation!
And more pitches
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
JFK
I would consider talking to the Rangers about Kinsler.
Otherwise I like LeMaheiu at 2nd giving us the biggest DP combo in baseball. And I am glad to see the organization not just hanging onto player for 5 years or longer to see IF they can develop when most realize they are what they are. I liked Smith very much but he was redundant on this team
Maybe Cano Is available too
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 1:32 PM MST up reply actions
i hear cherington wants to get rid of epstein's guys
let’s ask about pedroia and lester
arenado: it's Rockie for future
yeah maybeeven cuddyer for crawford straight up?
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 1:33 PM MST up reply actions
#Rockies8ManRotation
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
#ThingsThatWillNeverHappen?
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 1:37 PM MST up reply actions
10 pitchers on our 25 man staff, everybody gets an inning/ish? That would be hard to adjust. No second or third time through the lineup
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 1:39 PM MST up reply actions
So why have any SPs on the Roster
And just get any late inning guy you can get? However, what if you need one of your arms to eat some innings. Or the day before you go 14 innings and used 8 of those 10 pitchers you have on the roster?
I’d have to see it work to believe it. It seems like a good idea on paper, but not practical.
Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
yeah things would have to go perfect for you
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 1:56 PM MST up reply actions
So I would have thought that the As would never be our traiding partner again.
Are the Rockies the team where As players go to begin their careers?
Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
Renck
They were when winter started. Cooled on it. But anything possible RT @Logan_Burdine: any chance they are looking to deal Hammel?
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
It makes sense to deal him now
Not sure what we could get in return for him though, or who would want to deal for him. I could see the Royals as a possible fit
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
Why not now?
I would think it makes more sense now than it did a couple hours ago, no?
He’s a legit BOR starter who has done well in the bullpen, too. I would think he’d have more than a few interested parties.
by BostonTransplant on Jan 16, 2012 2:34 PM MST up reply actions
Pedro
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 1:45 PM MST up reply actions
Josh Frog
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 16, 2012 1:48 PM MST up reply actions
Oh,
so that’s the first name of the Chrono Trigger character.
"No Mission Too Difficult, No Sacrifice Too Great—Duty First" - 1st Infantry Division Motto
SB Nation Denver - The regional hub for Denver sports!
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
(yes, it's really Glenn)
"No Mission Too Difficult, No Sacrifice Too Great—Duty First" - 1st Infantry Division Motto
SB Nation Denver - The regional hub for Denver sports!
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Loved that game.
The sequel, not so much.
Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
Watch out, Rox Girl
yells at us when we start talking about fantasy RPGs.
"No Mission Too Difficult, No Sacrifice Too Great—Duty First" - 1st Infantry Division Motto
SB Nation Denver - The regional hub for Denver sports!
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Its a Fantasy
Road Pitching Game.
We should be Okay. ;)
Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
wow
of all the things i never thought i’d see referenced on a baseball football knitting blog…
arenado: it's Rockie for future
This one made me giggle uncontrollably.
Altar Boy in the Church of Santo Ubaldo
"...buffalo chicken is a fine anti-depressant, after all." -UZ
"... One order of buffalo wings, please..." -Yokel, after July 30, 2011
I wouldn't call Saunders "depth"
No way he would sign a AAA contract.
by BostonTransplant on Jan 16, 2012 2:08 PM MST up reply actions
SweetSpot Blog on ESPN compares the NL West squads
Spoiler alert: Rox rank in the bottom half for virtually every position but SS and RF but paradoxically in the bottom in (GASP!) intagiblez.
http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/19961/nl-west-showdown-position-rankings
LOLCOORZ
I remember listening to the radio a few years ago (I don’t know why we still do) but one “respected” talking head was furious that there was baseball in Colorado. Said that the Rockies are a Joke.
I don’t know why I bother reading that tripe anymore.
Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
ranking 2 rookies ahead of helton?
yeah, i can see that
arenado: it's Rockie for future
You can slice and dice these five guys anyway you want.
"No Mission Too Difficult, No Sacrifice Too Great—Duty First" - 1st Infantry Division Motto
SB Nation Denver - The regional hub for Denver sports!
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
kneejerk reactions FTW
arenado: it's Rockie for future
He heaps some nice praise on Chacin
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
Yeah this division sure does have good #1 pitchers
PRMLB - Tampa Bay Rays
tough to disagree with much of the pitching rankings, though
although i’d probably put betancourt over putz
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Hello! Go out with the kids for a couple hours and look what happens!
We now officially have a ridiculous number of pitchers. Gotta be a trade in the works now, for a 2B. At least one would think so.
Let’s go grab Scutaro while the Red Sox are desperate to clear salary to sign Oswalt. We can offer Nelson to help out at short, and their choice of about a dozen arms that might be able to help this year.
by BostonTransplant on Jan 16, 2012 2:11 PM MST reply actions
yup
particularly because jose iglesias can’t hit his way out of a paper bag
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Yes but they do have a good defensive SS waiting in the minors ...
And it would seem to be the only way they can save enough $$ to sign Oswalt.
by BostonTransplant on Jan 16, 2012 2:24 PM MST up reply actions
This is rich
The Rockies supposedly wanted Wade Davis from Tampa Bay. Of all pitchers in MLB who threw 120 IP last year, Davis ranked 129th out of 131 in xFIP. He beat….Tyler Chatwood and Guillermo Moscoso.
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 16, 2012 2:15 PM MST reply actions
wade davis
is so bad
arenado: it's Rockie for future
I guess they figured there was only room to improve.
Glad we didn’t waste our resources on Wade Davis.
Really glad
I liked your tweet:
Could there be no better proof that the Rockies don’t use xFIP?
pretty funny
PRMLB - Tampa Bay Rays
this will be interesting to watch
RT @JohnSheaHey: Smith will get chance with #A’s to improve his fate vs. LHs. Beane: “He’s got too much power not to get that opportunity.”
PRMLB - Tampa Bay Rays
Beane: "He’s got too much power not to get that opportunity."
Left out was the remainder of that quote.
“…and what do we have to lose? It’s not like we’re going anywhere anytime soon.”
How about this idea.
Move Hammel plus a minor prospect to Cleveland for Phelps. Use the savings from Smith and Hammel to get Oswalt.
I'd take Kipnis instead.
34 today, 33 tomorrow is how many days remain until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training. Plus, its 6 days until I go to Las Vegas to bowl in a professional tournament and 7 days until I start bowling
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
And they'd prefer Chacin to Hammel
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 16, 2012 5:04 PM MST up reply actions
that is true.
Maybe, we can throw in someone else. We do have enough arms.
34 today, 33 tomorrow is how many days remain until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training. Plus, its 6 days until I go to Las Vegas to bowl in a professional tournament and 7 days until I start bowling
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
Ha! We're not getting someone that good
But someone Scutaro level might be a possibility. Marco himself isn’t likely, as has been pointed out, but that sort of solid ML guy.
by BostonTransplant on Jan 16, 2012 5:14 PM MST up reply actions
they weren't giving him up for ubaldo
no chance we get him for anything we’d offer now
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Fangraphs article not in favor of the trade
PRMLB - Tampa Bay Rays
Wow, Fangraphs doesn’t like a Dan O’Dowd move. I’m shocked. This is my shocked face. Let me guess without reading it – they think Seth Smith is absolutely the bee’s knees and don’t understand why the Rockies keep acquiring starting pitching.
Let me write their article if it had been the A’s trading Smith to the Rockies for Moscoso/Outman – “The A’s were able to use a fungible piece, one who hits righties well but doesn’t offer much else, and acquire a pair of starting pitchers who will add rotation depth and could surprise.”
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
by Franchise26 on Jan 16, 2012 2:41 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
haha your summary is pretty accurate
PRMLB - Tampa Bay Rays
I might point out that Swydan was actually a Rockies employee until the last year or so
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 16, 2012 2:46 PM MST up reply actions
I wish I could remember
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 16, 2012 2:59 PM MST up reply actions
Edited
and produced Rockies Magazine, among other things.
"No Mission Too Difficult, No Sacrifice Too Great—Duty First" - 1st Infantry Division Motto
SB Nation Denver - The regional hub for Denver sports!
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
And his LinkedIn profile
can tell you more http://www.linkedin.com/in/swydan
"No Mission Too Difficult, No Sacrifice Too Great—Duty First" - 1st Infantry Division Motto
SB Nation Denver - The regional hub for Denver sports!
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
That's it
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 16, 2012 3:02 PM MST up reply actions
Well
He used to get punched in the crotch a lot.
Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
Why do certain commentators (especially SABR oriented ones) hate the Rox?
Did we once say something anti-SABR-ish and they’ve been on a rampage ever since? Doesn’t seem like we make especially irrational moves.
Everything thinks they know who will or won’t do well in Coors. They have no idea, or at least they have less of an idea than the guys who run the Rockies. I don’t think getting groundballs is necessarily the answer, either. Good pitchers are good pitchers, generally, and as long as you don’t walk a lot of guys you can do fine here.
by BostonTransplant on Jan 16, 2012 2:48 PM MST up reply actions
Because there's an odd tendency to acquire pitchers who don't fit the home park
Though Swydan fell prey to the same thing I did earlier, which is not looking up Outman’s minor league numbers. His GB rate was pretty good.
It's simpler than that
The most popular up and coming form of analysis is SABR related, especially at Fangraphs. Klaassen writes there. Law is a big SABR guy. The Rockies are not run that way.
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 16, 2012 3:17 PM MST up reply actions
Cool!
We’re the outlaws of MLB! All the more reason to root for the Rox …
by BostonTransplant on Jan 16, 2012 3:54 PM MST up reply actions
There is something to that,
using contrarian analysis to find buying opportunities works decently with the stock market, I would assume it would work in MLB talent evaluation as well.
It's also a way to lose a lot of money fast.
The writer formerly known as Jabberwocky
READ and LEARN about the business of baseball at Purple Row Academy
Eschew Obfuscation!
I guess that would depend on the particular contrarian action undertaken...
2008 notwithstanding, diversified buying into a stock crash is almost always a solid strategy to make better than typical returns. Buying lots of sovereign debt at a time like right now when everybody wants out of it? Probably not the wisest contrarian move you could make.
I guess my main point here would still be that there’s an over-reliance on simplistic, freely available statistical models to tell GM’s what they should do, and that will almost certainly create a chance for exploiting blind spots in the models.
Right, I get that. I'm just saying that there's usually a good reason why certain strategies are contrarian.
The writer formerly known as Jabberwocky
READ and LEARN about the business of baseball at Purple Row Academy
Eschew Obfuscation!
Seriously, this explains a LOT
and makes me feel a lot better.
by BostonTransplant on Jan 16, 2012 3:59 PM MST up reply actions
I understand it sucks when they put a negative spin on what we are doing
But, it’s a legit viewpoint.
I agree with this. I disagree with Swydan's opinion, but see where he's coming from.
I think in general his analysis underestimates the chance that any of these pitchers might be more than just “chum” and that cumulatively, the chance of finding a single gem out of the group is very high.
jack moore always has and always will hate the rockies
remember the ubaldo article?
arenado: it's Rockie for future
replied in the wrong place?
PRMLB - Tampa Bay Rays
i suppose
but jack moore’s article is just crapping on smith
arenado: it's Rockie for future
like this
it isn’t difficult to envision Smith struggling mightily against right-handers in an expanded role.
how much more expanded can you really get? 83% of his career PAs against RHP
arenado: it's Rockie for future
I'm guessing thats a typo and should be Left-handers
PRMLB - Tampa Bay Rays
you'd think so
but jack moore really hates the rockies, and i wouldn’t be surprised at all if he honestly thought that
arenado: it's Rockie for future
I’ve had more time to think about this.
As I understood it, the whole point of trading Seth Smith was because he was the best trade chip we had to upgrade the team elsewhere. Which is fine. I could get behind that. Smith’s a good hitter against righties but doesn’t do a whole hell of a lot else. And I think Josh Outman could end up being a decent pitcher. (Moscoso I’m not terribly excited about, but as a throw in he’s not bad.) But is this a clear upgrade to the resources already on hand? I’m not sure about that.
I feel like we just keep buying raffle tickets for the rotation. And to an extent I’m OK with that. Our pitching has stunk the last two years. If you’ve got 15 guys on hand for five spots, there’s a better chance five of them come good than if you’re hoping to find five good ones out of six or seven candidates. But I also look at the second base spot as a pretty big void that I was hoping we’d be able to address, and I don’t see that happening now.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
Actually, I think the 2B spot is more likely to be filled now than I did 2 hours ago
Among other reasons, we just dumped $2m in salary, and now have enough SP depth to save another $3m from Slowey if he doesn’t ace ST. We also have a few arms we could offer for a 2B. Hammel if it’s a decent guy, maybe even Bettis if it’s more of a long term answer. Or take your pick … White maybe? We could call up a team that has a good 2B in AAA and in exchange for their regular ML 2B, offer any two arms out of a group of 10. That’s a good deal for anyone (unless their regular starting 2B is Robby Cano or something).
by BostonTransplant on Jan 16, 2012 2:46 PM MST up reply actions
I mentioned above.
But I’d love to target Cord Phelps from the Reds. He is pretty well blocked and can probably do well here. Solid all around player and is major league ready.
2nd base
It is true that it is the weakest position on the team but are there a whole lot of better options available? I’m hoping for Rosario at 3rd and Blake at second. If Rockies are in contention come trade deadline, they have resources to get a real 2nd baseman.
Rosario at 3B and Casey Blake at 2b?
did I really read that right?
PRMLB - Tampa Bay Rays
Wait, WHAT???
Are you high? Blake has no business (or experience) playing 2B and Rosario has even less playing 3B. That plan would be insane and get a whole lot of people fired.
Jason Giambi for player-manager in 2012!
How the world will end in 2012: George of the Roses builds a Machine that Pommels everyone with La Violencia during Whiteouts.
Only if
it’s a repeat of that Rockies-Giants game from 2008 when CDI played third and Atkins moved over to second.
"No Mission Too Difficult, No Sacrifice Too Great—Duty First" - 1st Infantry Division Motto
SB Nation Denver - The regional hub for Denver sports!
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
And both played pretty well too
Atkins DP and that one going to his left was amazing (especially for him)
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
JFK
are you casey stengel?
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Dude, Smith wasn't worth a better pitcher and never was
That was just in some peoples’ dreams. Both the guys we acquired are perfectly fine BOR options. Outman looks like a fantastic LOOGY with the ability to work longer if needed. Moscoso nearly pitched a no-hitter last year. They both (especially Outman) had good numbers in MiLB. I don’t see how you can diss this trade. Frankly, I was resigned to just a AA prospect.
by BostonTransplant on Jan 16, 2012 2:53 PM MST up reply actions
I think all the reports tha connected Smith in a Prado deal, even though Smith was just a piece and arguably the least valuable of the pieces, had people think Smith had more value than he actually does.
Of 62 MLB OFs with 500 PAs
Smith ranked 21st in wOBA. No, his defense wasn’t good last year, but it has been good in the past. He has significant value, even if his defense is just average and even if he is platooned.
He has value
But platoon players have much more value to the team they are on than the team looking to acquire them.
Not true
Matt Joyce, who is and was a platoon player when acquired, was worth Edwin Jackson. That was before Jackson broke out, but his potential was greater than Outman or Mescoso.
Joyce was younger and I’d imagine that the Rays could still have projected/hoped that he could develop into more than a platoon.
He had a record of mediocrity vs. LHP similar to Smith
at the time of the trade. He actually did quite well against them in his first year at AAA Durham. Then right back down.
Joyce was also 5 or 6 years younger when he was traded, offering a window to continue developing. Smith is 29 and closer to being what he is.
He's only two years younger overall
24 or 25 was not exactly young. He had a pretty clear track record. Either way, Smith has at least the equivalent in value of these two pitchers and probably a little more to an AL team.
2 years difference in age between the 2
But 5/6 year difference between ages each was traded.
Not saying 24/25 is young but that still fits into the window for a player be developing.
And I have never said Smith wasn’t worth Outman/Mescoso. Only that he wasn’t worth as much as some may have been hoping for given his connection to the Prado rumors.
That was more of a joke, I actually like the trade too, but i’m not getting too excited about it. They aren’t perfectly fine back of the rotation options though, and I wouldn’t be surprised if they don’t work out here.
In general I really like this off season, there was a lot of work done on the lineup that was very necessary and thats more than I can expect for one off season when this team needed some significant retooling.
Outside of Chacin this rotation needs a lot of development to take place (and recovery for DLR) this season will probably have some growing pains. If they assess the rotation next season and add a piece or two then once we’ve seen who matures out of all of these young guys then the future might look bright.
Chacin needs to continue developing too. People on here seem to ignore this fact.
He ain’t a #1 pitcher yet.
PRMLB - The San Francisco Giants are better than you
Agreed
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
JFK
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
This is seriously not meant to be snarky
but this is why I have trouble understanding (let alone trusting) The Plan.
I don’t think there’s any real expectation that Moyer can pitch in the big leagues anymore. But if he wants to give it a shot, what better team to give it to him than a team with a lot of young pitchers with a lot to learn about how to be a major league pitcher? And for those kids, who better to learn from than Moyer, one of the smartest guys in the game and a guy who has learned that stuff ain’t enough when it comes to having success?
It is pretty funny, though.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
The sum of the moves today almost has to mean another one is coming.
If we don’t trade some of this excess pitching before ST, or just into it, I’ll be with you on this.
Oh, dear lord.
It’s finally come true.
"No Mission Too Difficult, No Sacrifice Too Great—Duty First" - 1st Infantry Division Motto
SB Nation Denver - The regional hub for Denver sports!
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Is this real life?
This all feels like a very drawn out elaborate prank.
"Because I am a Rockie." - Todd
by phishbate on Jan 16, 2012 3:17 PM MST up reply actions 2 recs
What a waste
Hopefully he doesn’t sign it. Save that money for next season when this rotation might have less question marks.
I honestly don't care if he pitches a regular season game
for this organization. Bringing him to spring training to “compete” and work with the 74 bajillion young arms we now have seems like a fairly decent investment to me…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Jan 16, 2012 4:31 PM MST up reply actions
Well, it's official.
I no longer see any sanity to our moves.
by mkorpal on Jan 16, 2012 3:18 PM MST up reply actions 2 recs
I'm with you
Jason Giambi for player-manager in 2012!
How the world will end in 2012: George of the Roses builds a Machine that Pommels everyone with La Violencia during Whiteouts.
Look, if I had a bunch of young pitchers with very little big league experience, and I wanted to bring in a veteran guy who probably wouldn’t be good enough to take any of their spots but would definitely be amenable to a role as a mentor, Jamie Moyer is the first guy I’m calling. Does that help it make a little sense?
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
I'm with you there
It’s a minor league deal, besides
The Perfect Move #InningsEater
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 3:25 PM MST up reply actions
At least this is a minor league deal
Sounds like Seattle offered him a deal too. Hopefully he chooses the pitcher friendly park.
Jamie Moyer!
We brought him up at beginning of off season
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
We might have brought him up in the 1993 offseason
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 16, 2012 3:18 PM MST up reply actions
It didn't make sense for an expansion team to go with somebody as old as Moyer...
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Jan 16, 2012 4:32 PM MST up reply actions
Millwood is still an option
Renck
Millwood has re-emerged as well. Still possible he signs. But his price would have to come down.
PRMLB - Tampa Bay Rays
Now that's a sexy name
When placed next to Jamie Moyer.
Of the veteran guys discussed here (Millwood, Francis, Moyer) Millwood is by far my preferred choice. And I really like how Colorado isn’t being aggressive with him, choosing to sign him to a deal that works for them, not Millwood.
Acquire all the young(er than Jamie Moyer) arms?
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Jan 16, 2012 4:32 PM MST up reply actions
same thing....
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Jan 16, 2012 4:36 PM MST up reply actions
except we are also trying for Moyer
and he’s not younger than himself (I don’t think?)
The off-season sucks.
That is all.
He is actually older than himself...
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Jan 16, 2012 5:15 PM MST up reply actions
Robotics...
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Jan 16, 2012 5:25 PM MST up reply actions
I like Moose Costco...
as a fan on AN referred to him. He’s got a good minor league resume, good control, and people get overly worried about high FB pitchers at Coors. A good pitcher is a good pitcher, and I think Moose Costco is quality and value being overlooked, sort of like those brands that Costco itself stocks on its shelves.
Outman scares me a bit with his injury history and high walk rate. While rehabbing in Sac’to last season, he averaged 4 and a fraction innings a start due to walking about 5 per 9. He’s walked 4.5 per 9 in his minor league career.
Neither pitcher wows me, but I’ll be the contrarian and say Moose has the better Rockies career of the two.
both will win Cy Youngs in the same year for the rockies
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 16, 2012 3:31 PM MST up reply actions
What a terrible offseason
Impact Bat: Cuddyer
Impact Arm: ?!?!?$?!?$?!%?!?%?!?%!?%?!?%?!??!???!?!?!??!?!??%!?%?!?@%
I’ve backed the Rockies FO for sometime, but I’m done now. They are simply trolling baseball now.
by CarloWitzki on Jan 16, 2012 3:34 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
It’s been too long.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
by Franchise26 on Jan 16, 2012 3:39 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I hate this offseason
I’m not excited for 2012 at all. This has been a huge let down. Is it still 2011?
Easy there, back away from the ledge ...
This is going to be a fun year, actually. Lots of guys competing, some may turn out well, some no doubt won’t. Lots of young guys to root for, with real talent. We’re in a bad division. Seriously, having rooted now for the Red Sox and the Rox in the past ten years, I SO much prefer rooting for the Rox. With the Sox it was all so clinical and bloodless that winning (OK, except for the first WS) wasn’t even that much fun.
If you’re upset about not acquiring an impact arm and impact bat, you have to say which one you would prefer. Those not available or affordable don’t count. We aren’t the Marlins, and thank God for that.
by BostonTransplant on Jan 16, 2012 3:58 PM MST up reply actions
Agree
We aren’t the Marlins, and thank God for that.
The Rockies could play in that new ballpark with the weird home run thingy, and the terrible new uniforms.
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
JFK
the orange ones are ugly,
but the others ones are nice. it’s going to be pretty fun to be a marlins fan this year i reckon
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Actually it would be
Baseball games in good conditions? That would be fun, except we get that here almost all the time. Finally the Marlins fans can have what we’ve had since 1993. Now if we could get what they’ve had I would be really happy
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
JFK
well that
and their shiny new ballpark, expensive free agents, and philly getting another year older (and wiggy) gives them actual hope for this season, while we’ve basically chucked it and are playing for 2013
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Overall, I kinda like it
The Iannetta trade continues to leave a bad taste in my mouth but other than that I think they have built a team that has the chance to grow into a solid, blue collar team the next few years. Might take some growing pains, how much depends on the questionable pitching staff, but I am excited for the season and to see what some of our guys bring. Especially Fowler, I really want to see if he can make that next step.
The Rockies likely won't add impact arms out of free agency
which is why they need to draft better. They’ve been missing on the draft way too much.
I'd like an impact 2nd baseman...
Or at least one who is a known quantity in the major leagues. Is that too much to hope for?
The big question on that, though:
WHO???
Jason Giambi for player-manager in 2012!
How the world will end in 2012: George of the Roses builds a Machine that Pommels everyone with La Violencia during Whiteouts.
Someone young-ish with promise
No doubt. After E-Jax and Oswalt get signed there isn’t much left on the market except guys worse than Hammel.
by BostonTransplant on Jan 16, 2012 4:24 PM MST up reply actions
I never wanted them too. In fact, all I really wanted to add out of FA pitchers was
Jeff Francis. I just think its a slap in the face when monforts/FO says they want impact bat and arm, then overpay for Cuddyer and get a plethora of questionable arms/infielders.
We didn't overpay for Cuddyer
3 WAR player last year we got for 3.5m per WAR. Even if last year was his best year, that’s how FA goes. You don’t get bargains.
by BostonTransplant on Jan 16, 2012 4:21 PM MST up reply actions
I understand that
But to take him over Beltran is ridiculous.
I don't think so
Leaving aside the question of whether Beltran would play for us (I think it was heavily suggested that the answer was no), his injury history argued strongly against a long-term deal. And he cost more. Not arguing he’s not a better hitter. Obviously he is, when healthy.
by BostonTransplant on Jan 16, 2012 4:25 PM MST up reply actions
willingham signed for $10 mil less
We over payed for Cuddyer
PRMLB - Tampa Bay Rays
We offered Beltran a contract, or at least were negotiating with him
Obviously he said he preferred to play elsewhere, and frankly when the WS Champs are calling and offering great money for multiple years, you don’t take the same money from a 4th place team in Colorado. You can’t have guys you can’t have …
by BostonTransplant on Jan 16, 2012 5:10 PM MST up reply actions
I didn't want Beltran
So I am glad we didn’t sign him.
He’s been one of my favorite players and when healthy he’s still got it, but I didn’t think he was worth more than a one year deal from us. If we gave him 3 years like we did Cuddyer I think we’d have ended up with a different player by the end of the contract than who we signed. 2 years I might have been able to handle but would have had some uneasiness over. Overall, I am glad we didn’t go that route considering the cost.
Cuddyer, of the potential FA OF’s I am glad we got him. I just don’t think we had to go so high in annual salary for that 3rd year to grab him. When Willingham is getting in 3 years what Cuddyer gets in 2, I think our price tag on him was kind of high.
And I don’t mind the annual salary at all. I could have accepted it as a 2 year deal. At three years I think $25-27 should have been the target range. I know we all say what’s the difference between an extra million or two a season, well considering we supposedly can’t afford a Kevin Millwood right now, I’d point to that. Maybe not Millwood per se, but the fact that we are a cost conscious organization and every dollar can appear to count.
beltran has always wanted to play for the yankees more than anything
and he still hasn’t gotten that… the only team he really didn’t want to play for was tampa, and that was because of the turf and he’d be DHing
arenado: it's Rockie for future
he won't be 3.5 WAR in the final year of his contract
or probably any year of it
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Any year? I’ll take that bet.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
by Muzia on Jan 16, 2012 6:07 PM MST via Android app up reply actions
3.1 last year as a 31 year old
history of knee problems, bad defender, low-value defensive positions, simple aging; let’s do it
arenado: it's Rockie for future
More significant time at 1B, more hitter friendly park suited to his swing…it’s not cut and dried with Cuddyer
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
by Muzia on Jan 16, 2012 6:19 PM MST via Android app up reply actions
yup
that’s half the fun!
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Fangraphs chimes in a second time
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/oakland-finishes-outfield-with-seth-smith/
As the market collapsed, the Athletics were able to pounce, giving up two surplus starters with shiny ERAs and little else.
It's Jim Tracy's Fault.
Is this where
someone makes a Jack Moore-related comment?
"No Mission Too Difficult, No Sacrifice Too Great—Duty First" - 1st Infantry Division Motto
SB Nation Denver - The regional hub for Denver sports!
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
The guy who wrote the article above
wrote a piece in 2010 about U-Ball’s hot start being kind of meh. Sturm und drang from a lot of the community here for a couple of weeks after that.
"No Mission Too Difficult, No Sacrifice Too Great—Duty First" - 1st Infantry Division Motto
SB Nation Denver - The regional hub for Denver sports!
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
It was more that he picked one start with good results and poor peripherals and said it was his "bad start"
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 16, 2012 4:19 PM MST up reply actions
That's right
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/ubaldos-unimpressive-start/
"No Mission Too Difficult, No Sacrifice Too Great—Duty First" - 1st Infantry Division Motto
SB Nation Denver - The regional hub for Denver sports!
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
I don't understand why they are pissing on Outman for his 2011 numbers
Swydan doesn’t bother to mention the TJ surgery, the above average K rates prior to it, or the minor league GB rates. Pretty much the same story for Moscoso: look at 2011 and ignore the above average minor league history.
They aren’t gems, but I expect a little more quality from Fgraphs. Usually when they trash the Rox they at least scratch the surface. This wasn’t even a sniff.
i did earlier
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Does anyone who grades Rockies' deals ever actually watch the Rox play?
After last season, how anyone can get all choked up about 29 year old Seth Smith at this point is beyond me. He’s a nice 4th OF’er, I guess, or a pinch hitter. But just brushing away getting two young arms for him? Crazy.
by evers44 on Jan 16, 2012 5:06 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Funn thing is ...
They were probably dissing him when we had the nerve to suggest he was enough to acquire a second baseman coming off an awful year for the Braves.
by BostonTransplant on Jan 16, 2012 5:12 PM MST up reply actions
Kind of NSFW for Violence, but fitting.
The Rockies 2011/2012 offseason byt Francis Ford Coppola.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caWZF00no50&feature=g-vrec&context=G2d995f8RVAAAAAAAAAA
All family business has now been settled except for Tessio (EY) and Carlo (Chris Nelson).
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com
Leading the Astros into the Future. Go, Go Astros!
Also, it's be great if someone could do a rundown of Rockies Primetime tonight
in case DOD comes on to talk about the trade. I can’t listen.
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com
Leading the Astros into the Future. Go, Go Astros!
8PM MT
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 16, 2012 4:35 PM MST up reply actions
Did anyone listen?
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com
Leading the Astros into the Future. Go, Go Astros!
by DumbAndNerdy on Jan 16, 2012 9:21 PM MST up reply actions
HOT DARN!
A LINK!
http://www.rockiesradionetwork.com/cc-common/podcast/single_page.html?podcast=rockiesprimetime
I was looking for this last week to listen again.
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com
Leading the Astros into the Future. Go, Go Astros!
by DumbAndNerdy on Jan 16, 2012 9:21 PM MST up reply actions
Ringolsby said Seth Smith was going to be a free agent next year.
WTF?
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Jan 16, 2012 9:59 PM MST up reply actions
He also said we traded CDI to the Dodgers for Chatwood.
I really don’t have much love for Ringolsby. Even the stuff that he writes for the Rockies Magazine isn’t very good.
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com
Leading the Astros into the Future. Go, Go Astros!
by DumbAndNerdy on Jan 16, 2012 10:03 PM MST up reply actions
He's always seemed a bit of a curmudgeon to me.
I’ve also nearly unfollowed him on Twitter a few times for the multiple Wyoming tweets (and occasional snark about other schools). But that’s mostly my issue.
I'm sure he earned his keep years ago.
But he’s basically retired now, yet still being listened to.
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com
Leading the Astros into the Future. Go, Go Astros!
by DumbAndNerdy on Jan 16, 2012 10:07 PM MST up reply actions
He's definitely a curmudgeon, but that'd be okay if he knew what he was talking about!
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Jan 16, 2012 10:35 PM MST up reply actions
Last week's show was a better.
It was certainly more informative. The Chatwood interview was pretty standard player-interview fluff.
Their discussion of the trade itself was the only interesting part.
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com
Leading the Astros into the Future. Go, Go Astros!
by DumbAndNerdy on Jan 16, 2012 10:05 PM MST up reply actions
Their discussion of the Smith trade was the interesting part.
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com
Leading the Astros into the Future. Go, Go Astros!
by DumbAndNerdy on Jan 16, 2012 10:08 PM MST up reply actions
The one at the beginning of the show before Ringolsby.
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com
Leading the Astros into the Future. Go, Go Astros!
by DumbAndNerdy on Jan 16, 2012 10:08 PM MST up reply actions
I wonder if Todd really has a sad now?
http://news.yahoo.com/cracker-barrel-founder-dan-evins-dies-172141490.html
34 today, 33 tomorrow is how many days remain until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training. Plus, its 6 days until I go to Las Vegas to bowl in a professional tournament and 7 days until I start bowling
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
My only other take on this trade?
I would have loved to hear Yankee Stadium’s old PA announce Bob Shepard announce Guillermo Moscoso’s name.
Or Harry Caray, since he's an NL player now?
“Gilerlerm Mocouscous now taking the hill for the Rockies today against the Cubbies here in the friendly confines…”
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Jan 16, 2012 5:18 PM MST up reply actions
re: The Raging Competition for rotation spots
This interests me. We’re gonna find out a lot about some young pitchers and their competitive fire from this. The spots are there — who’s going to take them?
This is good with me — I want ultra-competitive battlers taking the ball every 5th day.
And, from what little I’ve picked up about Alex White since he’s come over, he strikes me as exactly the kind of guy who will respond to this challenge. Just watch — he’s going to be nails this spring.
I just hope its sustainable
Sometimes that fire gets you a nice little run but you use up all your reserves and then fall back to earth.
That said, sometimes a little hunger and motivation is what you need to wake the sleeping bear. I certainly would be happy to see a little of that come Spring Training.
I really don't like what the Rockies are doing this offseason
They should be acquiring pitchers with good changeups/cutters/sinkers. Those are the pitches that work really well with a fastball at Coors. Instead they are acquiring a mishmash of nothing. The excess starters won’t even make for good long relievers if they don’t make the rotation.
I am not looking forward to some of the pitching disasters at Coors this year.
So this means we need to go after Halladay and Lee?
34 today, 33 tomorrow is how many days remain until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training. Plus, its 6 days until I go to Las Vegas to bowl in a professional tournament and 7 days until I start bowling
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
we don't have alan johnson anymore
not gonna happen
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Hivemind. whatwasithinking
34 today, 33 tomorrow is how many days remain until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training. Plus, its 6 days until I go to Las Vegas to bowl in a professional tournament and 7 days until I start bowling
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
There are a lot of cheaper pitchers who fit the profile
Dallas Braden, Jason Vargas, John Danks, Josh Beckett, Kyle Lohse, Doug Fister, Anibal Sanchez.
TONS of others. And even better if you look at long reliever types who end up in the bullpen because they don’t have good breaking balls – Alfredo Aceves, etc
I think you just put "Josh Beckett" and "John Danks" in the same sentence as "cheaper"
When they each make more than the Rox entire 16 man starting rotation put together. Lohse makes a ton too. Braden is the A’s ace now, and Fister is among the best young pitches in baseball. So yeah, those kinds of guys would be GREAT!!! But that’s kind of missing a step …
(Vargas we could have had earlier in the off-season and turned down. Sanchez I wouldn’t mind but isn’t available.)
by BostonTransplant on Jan 16, 2012 8:26 PM MST up reply actions
Fine
Among this years free agents – Paul Maholm, Chris Young, Javier Vazquez.
My main point being that pitchers who fit the profile are likely to outperform at Coors. Won’t make them studs – or healthy – or young. Just that it is a profile that offers unique value to us and we should be taking advantage of that.
And scratch Paul Maholm
I looked in the wrong column for his stats.
Moscoso has a cutter though
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
JFK
he's also in the best shape of his life
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Welcome to Purple Row
/although you’ve been lurking awhile as a member
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
JFK
Anyone else find it odd
that Oakland F’s appears right before this trade happens?
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
JFK
OT: My friend started an online magazine that I'm writing for
Here’s a piece I wrote on the Pujols signing
The target isn’t really a baseball or even sports audience, so the article’s probably a bit dumbed down for this crowd, but I figure the more eyeballs the better.
Jason Giambi for player-manager in 2012!
How the world will end in 2012: George of the Roses builds a Machine that Pommels everyone with La Violencia during Whiteouts.
I dont get it
we brought in enough young pitchers as it is. What about the dam black holes in the infield? Nothing has been address about that, expect trading players away and depleting those positions even more. Nothing makes sense this off season makes sense, don’t understand what the hell is going on in O’Dowd’s head
Colorado Offense: Making bad pitchers look like CY Young Winners.
Well, look at it this way
The redundant parts are actually the most valuable commodity in baseball (young, inexpensive arms). The Rox have the ammunition to literally make a move for anyone in the league, if they choose to do so. Realistically, a package of White, Friedrich, and, say, Chatwood, could land a darn good 2B and really wouldn’t have a significant impact on the future of the rotation. Now, I’m not predicting that type of deal, but it’s not fair to write off these pitchers as redundant pieces and nothing more, particularly since the off-season isn’t done yet.
Colorado Rockies: arms dealers?
"Are they called the Rockies because they rock?" - 7 y.o.
by glaucophane on Jan 16, 2012 8:26 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
New Site Tagline?
Altar Boy in the Church of Santo Ubaldo
"...buffalo chicken is a fine anti-depressant, after all." -UZ
"... One order of buffalo wings, please..." -Yokel, after July 30, 2011
Only if they're sellers come the trade deadline.
Think about how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! --George Carlin
Says the GM:
“We really want to make sure that we go seven, eight, nine deep in the rotation and hopefully we can replenish the bullpen as well…Ultimately, you’re going to be starting around eight guys [throughout the course of the season] and use many more bullpen arms, so depth has been a focus of this winter.”
Actually, we've upgraded at 3B quite a bit
Casey Blake is better than Ian Stewart/Chris Nelson/Kevin Kouzmanoff by a fair bit. And once Arenado is ready mid-season-ish, we’ll have upgraded a LOT.
And I would be surprised if we didn’t acquire a 2B now. You may disagree with getting rid of certain players, but if we make our final move and get a 2B, you can’t really say we haven’t improved on the infield.
by BostonTransplant on Jan 16, 2012 8:23 PM MST up reply actions
Ludwick is a Red. Not that it matters to us anyways
@Ken_Rosenthal Ken Rosenthal
Source: Ludwick deal with #Reds is one year with a mutual option for 2013.
34 today, 33 tomorrow is how many days remain until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training. Plus, its 6 days until I go to Las Vegas to bowl in a professional tournament and 7 days until I start bowling
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
As I read this
I first thought you “Ludwick is angry”
Colorado Offense: Making bad pitchers look like CY Young Winners.
by Colsportsfan on Jan 16, 2012 10:57 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
I thought it was communist at first
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
JFK
I saw earlier that we saved 2 million in trading Seth.
Who could we get for that price?
33 today, 32 tomorrow is how many days remain until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training. Plus, its 6 days until I go to Las Vegas to bowl in a professional tournament and 7 days until I start bowling
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
I’d sign for two million.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
Do you play 2B?
Jason Giambi for player-manager in 2012!
How the world will end in 2012: George of the Roses builds a Machine that Pommels everyone with La Violencia during Whiteouts.
No.
But I’ve been there before. Once or twice. And I didn’t even have to pay for it.
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com
Leading the Astros into the Future. Go, Go Astros!
by DumbAndNerdy on Jan 16, 2012 10:12 PM MST up reply actions
I was backup JV 2B in high school!
in retrospect, I think that means I couldn’t throw, run, or hit.
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 17, 2012 6:13 AM MST via Android app up reply actions
I was third string Varsity senior year
but my coach never really gave me opportunities to play in games. Even games we were winning by 15 after the third inning I would only get 1 at bat (maybe) and an inning or two in the field. This was especially annoying when we played the same team in a double header and the starters got to start both games
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
JFK
I didn't play past my sophomore year
I did manage to hit a 3 run opposite field home run (would have been a grand slam if not for a first-pitch wild pitch) at Ralston Valley to put us up 8-0. coach pulled me after an error later and we lost 22-21
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 17, 2012 7:42 AM MST via Android app up reply actions
Last night on Hot Stove
The projected lineup they had for the A’s had Seth Smith hitting 3rd
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
I believe it
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 17, 2012 7:42 AM MST via Android app up reply actions
the guy had the 55th highest wRC+ in MLB last year the only guy they had in that territory
was the Hammer
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Purple Row
Related FanShots on Purple Row
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Get a grip: Reds’ Todd Frazier loses bat, still connects for home run (Video)
- Eric Hosmer redefines the Baltimore chop with infield double (Video)
- College player makes impossible over the fence catch to save tournament game (Video)
- Security!: Camden Yards guard collides with Royals’ Mike Moustakas
- The Juice: Nelson Cruz matches career high eight RBIs, Pujols stays hot in Seattle
