Tuesday Rockpile: Is Something Better Than Nothing If The Something Isn't Grand?
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 17, 2012 7:18 AM MST
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As the 2011 season limped to another disappointing finish, the warning smell of change was in the air. It had to be. The Colorado Rockies fell far short of expectations two consecutive seasons, and outside of a strong four month stretch at the outset of Jim Tracy's tenure, there has been nothing but disappointment since the 2007 World Series.
This is the backdrop for this offseason, and it is one that is almost universally missed by analysts. Rockies fans endured multiple offseasons in a row with little to no change to the roster, only to see a comparable result the same team produced the year prior. It was at the point where the formula needed to change.
Dan O'Dowd has set about blowing up the team formula without harming its core, an important point to realize. The loyalty shown homegrown top prospects was reevaluated, and as a result several top draft picks and/or top homegrown players were shown their walking papers. Chris Iannetta, Ryan Spilborghs, Ian Stewart, Casey Weathers, Ubaldo Jimenez, and Greg Reynolds were all sent away in the last six months.
You can now add Seth Smith to that list, who was dealt to Oakland yesterday for lefty starter Josh Outman and righty starter Guillermo Moscoso. It is hard to argue with dealing a platoon outfielder for two starting pitchers with MLB experience, especially with the low leverage O'Dowd found himself in after acquiring Michael Cuddyer and Tyler Colvin.
As has been the key signature of the offseason, O'Dowd's moves have received a chorus of boos by analysts outside of Colorado, most of whom have not watched the team as constituted falter continuously in recent years. Jack Moore says Moscoso and Outman have "shiny ERAs and little else." Former Rockies employee Paul Swydan suggests the two pitchers have so little value that it was like trading Smith for nothing. Keith Law believes both are poor fits for Coors Field.
Outman and Moscoso join a crowded cast as competition for the starting rotation. Already, Jhoulys Chacin is a lock, Jason Hammel and Juan Nicasio are likely, and Kevin Slowey, Drew Pomeranz, Alex White, Tyler Chatwood, Jorge de la Rosa, Clayton Mortensen and Esmil Rogers all made at least four MLB starts last season. O'Dowd has extended a minor league contract to Jamie Moyer, who, as Troy Renck points out, is older than every player in the Rockies first ever lineup in 1993, except Andres Galarraga. You can't have too much pitching until you do, it seems. Count on a future trade of some of these arms, perhaps as late as Opening Day, when other organizations are desperate for arms due to injuries. Otherwise, this stockpile has surpassed its purpose.
It is certainly debatable whether the Laws, Moores and Sheehans are more suited to accurately judge the Rockies, as their position is theoretically more objective, yet lacking access to the team pulse that has necessitated this roster purge. Or maybe Rockies fans, naturally lacking objectivity yet more familiar with the day-to-day perils, have a better idea. Probably a little of both. Frankly, my prevailing opinion is relief that O'Dowd recognized the need to change things up and did something, rather than ride the same cast to a familiar fate. My opinion on each individual move ought to be couched a little more than it has been until we see the Opening Day (40-man) roster.
Off-season critiques by outside analysts after the jump.
What They Are Saying About the Rockies Offseason
It's perhaps the strangest offseason any team has put together. The Rockies didn't improve in any of their four major-league trades or in their biggest free-agent signing. Collectively, they're a few games worse than they were a season ago, and quite a bit older than they were on Opening Day 2011. The combination leaves them well behind the Giants and Diamondbacks heading into February.
Erik Karabell (ESPN)
Odd winter for Rockies. And not in a good way.
Eno Sarris (Fangraphs, RotoGraphs, BloombergSports)
Love how the Rox were collecting ground-ball wizards, then decided to zag and get a bunch of mediocre fly-ball dudes. #diversity
Matt Klaassen (Fangraphs)
The Colorado Rockies housecleaning of useful-and-inexpensive players continued with their trade of Seth Smith, who was made superfluous by the Rockies' acquisition of the barely-superior Michael Cuddyer
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Collectively, they’re a few games worse than they were a season ago, and quite a bit older than they were on Opening Day 2011
I’m guessing they are 9-10 months older than they were on Opening Day 2011? Hes right that is quite a bit older.
Odd winter for Rockies. And not in a good way
Is he talking about the lack of snow?
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
In a very small way, I like what the Rockies are doing. Collect a ton of cost controlled pitching, and develop sluggers. I believe the key to winning in Coors, is to have almost all your money in the field, score a ton of runs, and hope your young pitching can have some success.
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
Recent history suggests otherwise
In 2007 and 2009, the Rockies managed to post NL-average-or-better numbers in ERA, BA Against and WHIP. In other years they are well below average.
I have realistic expectations when it comes to pitching at Coors, so I consider NL-average numbers to be a significant accomplishment. So significant, in fact, that it corresponds with winning.
Maybe enough of the young arms pan out so that the Rockies can be compeitive this year – I certainly hope so. But unless that happens, they aren’t going to slug their way out of 4th place.
by Northsider1964 on Jan 17, 2012 8:01 AM MST up reply actions
Did we not have developed sluggers and pretty cost controlled pitching during that year 07?
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 17, 2012 8:45 AM MST up reply actions
Yes, and I like our chances of wishing and hoping our way
to NL-average pitching once in the next 20 years as well. I hope I’m still alive to see it.
by Northsider1964 on Jan 17, 2012 8:56 AM MST up reply actions
that might require us building a dome and controlling the climate within that dome
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 17, 2012 9:18 AM MST up reply actions
I completely respect the SABR-guys obsessive knowledge of the game
It can get a bit reductionist and soulless for my taste, but it’s a worthwhile point of view to read. Still, I absolutely LOVE that the Rox are doing what they’re doing, and apparently personally insulting the rational instincts of the fanboy club. I guess that’s the punk in me.
Having managed large organizations for many years (more than I care to remember) I totally recognize what we’re up to — revamping the corporate culture and providing our leadership more and better options — and think it’s undeniably the right course. Sometimes, you need more than one way to analyze a situation. Human nature is complicated, way more complicated than we can currently model with equations, and wise managers consistently throw wrenches into the mix to force his or her organization to adjust and change. Even when the numbers say otherwise.
I am very much looking forward to this season.
by BostonTransplant on Jan 17, 2012 7:49 AM MST reply actions
The ‘revamping the culture’ idea isn’t something where the stat guys can quantify its effect, so they either altogether ignore it or they mock it (snark is a default setting for many of those guys, who fancy themselves the Stadler and Waldorf of baseball analysis). It’s not in the least a surprise that these types don’t like what the Rockies are doing in that regard.
The laziness of the ‘fly ball pitcher —→ guaranteed to suck at Coors’ analysis, well, that’s just laziness.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
Totally
If they were so good at analyzing the game and talent, why aren’t they working for one of the 30 and making that team competitive?
Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
In Keith Law's case, because it's more fun to be public about your opinions
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 17, 2012 8:53 AM MST up reply actions
Keith Law “Why would I put myself under the pressure of an MLB team, When I can get paid to tweet and write like an idiot?”
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 17, 2012 9:25 AM MST up reply actions
He interviewed with the ALstros a couple of weeks back...
But, did work with the Blue Jays. He’s nothing more than a pompus-ass from Long Island, imo.
Fixed
He’s nothing more than a pompus-ass from Long Island, imo.
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
The only people I have ever known from Lawngwyland I who even
stomach were old dudes who had grown up in Brooklyn, a snarkier, more egotistical, group of rash decision makers I have never known.
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Queens is not part of Long Island—well, maybe geographically, but spiritually different. I actually used to live on Long Island and dated a girl from Queens and I once made the mistake of teasing her about Queens being part of L.I.—she did not have a sense of humor about it. Trust me—you never, ever want to do that.
by DenverBears on Jan 17, 2012 10:24 AM MST up reply actions
I agree with the changing culture to a point—I have managed people and one thing I have realized is that a group dynamic is hard to change and can impact performance both positively and negatively. It would be naive to think that it wouldn’t impact player performance as well. Having said that, the new guys coming in weren’t performing much better in their previous positions and it is unlikely that they will be any better now. At the end of the day, you can have the best characters in the world, but without the talent it won’t help. Moreover, what indication is there that there was a problem in the clubhouse and that the offenders are now gone?
What I see is a team where the names have changed, but the new players aren’t any more than marginally better the ones that left. I don’t really foresee this team being any better than last year and not any better set up for 2013 and beyond. Having said all that, I am hoping we have yet to see the true plan for all these starting pitchers. If O’Dowd can get something useful in return for a couple of them, then the offseason could make some sense.
I suppose a large part of your argument is that you see the Rockies as having been a ‘true-talent’ 73 win team last season, which I don’t believe is true, and it’s clear the Rockies don’t believe that, either. They see that there were multiple factors – injury and rotten luck, mostly – that contributed to the final win total being lower than it probably should have been given the talent on hand. I’m not trying to say the Rockies have built a pennant winner this offseason, but I am very confident that they will be better in 2012 than they were in 2011, and better in 2013 and beyond thanks mostly to young pieces that were already on hand and well in mind when the construction of the 2012 team began.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
I still can't believe they ended up with 73 wins
its a familiar number for the organization, but just look at The rosters that achieved it.
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 17, 2012 8:29 AM MST via Android app up reply actions
I agree with you...
that the team is/was better than a 73 win team without the injuries and multiple players having an awful year—although I don’t think the talent was any better than the 83 win team of 2010. I really think we are looking at a Rockies team that is likely about a .500 team—which is okay, but unlikely to sniff post-season.
The easiest way to improve this team for 2012 would have been to just find a mediocre 2B and a mediocre 3B. Starting with a base of talent worth about 81 wins, just filling those gaping holes might have pushed the team toward competing for a playoff spot.
I will say this about the outside criticism—I think it is overblown. The Rockies mostly got rid of players that didn’t help the team last year (Spilly, Reynolds, Stewart, Weathers) or replaced the productive players (Iannetta, Smith) with similar production—so it is hard to see this team being much worse. The wild card is the outcome of the Jimenez trade, which I was in favor of (and obviously wasn’t actually part of the off-season).
All of this
Basically, they’ve stayed level this offseason. But Pomz/White’s development are the real key to 2012.
More like key to 2013 or 14
This rotation is so inexperienced that there’s no way we’re going to be in contention this season. Even Chacin still has areas to improve. We’ll probably see some really good games out of these young guys and some really bad games where they’ll have to learn to make adjustment. Its going to take some time.
The development is key now
so they can produce at higher levels in 2013 and beyond
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
JFK
The problem wasn't "in the clubhouse" in the sense of team dynamics.
The problem was with individuals not achieving the expectations that were set for them. There are two possibilities for why they did not achieve those expectations:
1) They never had the talent.
2) They didn’t work to develop the talent.
The FO felt that the second option was the primary reason for failure. This is the “clubhouse” issue. Either way, that left the FO in a difficult situation. The team that they wanted didn’t exist. They had two options:
1) Try to make a team out of the players they perceived as failures.
2) Start fresh.
They went with the second option. It’s not a complete rebuild, but it’s a cleaning out of players that they didn’t really fit into the plans that they had. Part of the reason not to make a new plan with the same players is because they felt that they didn’t meet their expectations because of personality issues. If this really is the case, the second option is better.
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com
Leading the Astros into the Future. Go, Go Astros!
by DumbAndNerdy on Jan 17, 2012 9:16 AM MST up reply actions
I assume you’re referencing Tracy, but I like this comment a lot more if it’s referencing the head groundskeeper…so that’s how I’m interpreting it.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
PRMLB: The Brew Crew
we need cool patterns mowed into the OF grass.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
PRMLB: The Brew Crew
by Resolution on Jan 17, 2012 10:46 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Don't they do the mountains every once in awhile?
How would people feel about Helton’s face (at least in his retirement season)?
I'm not sure I need to see CarGo diving on Todd's face...
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Jan 17, 2012 1:54 PM MST up reply actions
Sarris' point about GB pitching is real
The best pitchers in Rockies’ history – Ubaldo, Cook, Francis (to a lesser extent) – generated lots of ground balls. I realize we play half the games away from Coors, but that doesn’t mean you can schedule a rotation around fly ball pitchers (it won’t work in a traditional 5 man, for a variety of reasons).
I’ve said this before but, the ‘77 and ’78 Yankees were not bastions of harmony, nor was any team with Manny Ramirez or many other players. There is something to be said for chemistry, but it is a lot more difficult to identify, assess the fit, and obtain than talent. Who knows if a “good guy” is going to be a good guy in a different clubhouse. It’s clear that teams can win without it.
Also, chemistry is also a product of the environment fostered by a manager (this applies universally). In many instances where there is an unhappy employee, it’s up to the manager to make him productive. Given all of the supposed clubhouse malcontents, Jim Tracy is apparently not a very effective manager in this regard.
Add to Ubaldo, Cook and Francis:
good individual season performances from Jennings (2002), Marquis (2009) and DLR (2009, 2010).
If pitchers don’t have stellar walk rates (like Slowey), it’s a lot riskier to be a fly ball pitcher in Coors.
t mentioned by either of you
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
amazed that Chacin isn't mentioned by either of you
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
I'm not entirely sure...
At this point, it seems more of an assumption than a proven fact that ground-ball pitchers fare better at Coors. I’d love to see the research on it, if anyone has done it.
As for the successful seasons being by ground-ball pitchers, have the Rockies ever had a good fly ball pitcher? I guess the thing to do would be to look at the ground ball rates of the pitchers with the worst home/road splits since the humidor was put in. Has anyone ever looked into that?
by DenverBears on Jan 17, 2012 10:20 AM MST up reply actions
Here's a Baseball Prospectus article from 2002
detailing the best way to build a run-preventing team at Coors:
In terms of statistics, all pitchers are going to get fewer strikeouts than they will elsewhere, and they’re going to give up more hits-a lot more hits-on balls in play. That leaves two things still under their control: the number of walks they give up, and the number of homers they surrender. Nolan Ryan isn’t the ideal Coors Field pitcher, Tommy John is. Pitchers who get ground balls, who don’t give up the homer, and who get double-play balls to eliminate all those extra baserunners are ideal; guys who never beat themselves by walking the leadoff hitter.
The Rockies’ current closer, Jose Jimenez, is one such pitcher. He’s an extreme groundball pitcher (3.39 G/F ratio this year) who has surrendered just three home runs in 45 innings. He’s walked just nine batters all year. He has just 29 strikeouts, and he’s allowed 51 hits, more than one an inning—but the lack of walks and homers has kept his ERA at 3.80. Most telling, he’s pitched even better at home (3.12 ERA) than on the road. Jason Jennings is another pitcher like this; he’s 9-4 with a solid 4.59 ERA.
Avoid flyball pitchers with control issues. Denny Neagle is a flyball pitcher who gives up too many walks, and his $10 million salary is now parked in the bullpen.
The whole thing is very good, and still applies in the Humidor era.
I just read it....
it is interesting,, but it is a bit long on speculation and short on actual data. I’d love to see actual data that says that this is the right approach. There are a lot of things in play here—the altitude affects movement of the ball (and thus maybe ground ball percentage itself) as well as the travel of the ball, the enormous park also has important effects. While it may be correct that a ground-ball pitcher is likely to be more successful, there should be enough data available to say whether they have or not.
by DenverBears on Jan 17, 2012 11:16 AM MST up reply actions
I will look more later for data pieces
but the BP article does a nice job of explaining the intuitive side. If you’re in a park where fly balls have a greater tendency to result in a poor outcome, keeping it out of the air is a good idea.
here's one thing that I just found....
not what I was looking for, but interesting:
The park factors for HR’s/OFFB (outfield flyball)
Or, alternatively, the parks ranked from most-to-least home run inflating per outfield fly—Coors is high, but not uniquely high—ranking 6th over a 4 year period:
Team Park LG 4-Year HR/OFFB
Yankees New Yankee Stadium AL 120
Reds Great American Ballpark NL 116
Rays Tropicana Field AL 114
Orioles Oriole Park at Camden Yards AL 113
White Sox US Cellular Field AL 113
Rockies Coors Field NL 111
Astros Minute Maid Park NL 110
Brewers Miller Park NL 108
Marlins Dolphins Stadium NL 108
Blue Jays Rogers Centre AL 107
by DenverBears on Jan 17, 2012 11:26 AM MST up reply actions
no arizona?
now that’s surprising
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Or Philly.
Kind of a bandbox.
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
CBP is actually neutral
98 for pitching and hitting on B-R’s multi-year park factors
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Not entirely...
It has a pretty high HR factor (16% LHB/20% RHB), suppresses triples (-15%/-14%), suppresses doubles (to LHB), and allows more singles (LHB). The unmentioned stats, namely to RHB, are +/- 3% of average.
This is why I hate BR’s one-number take on ballpark factors. There are at least a few bandboxes that give up HRs but suppress triples enough to make the park factor look much closer to average than it actually is.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
by cthabeerman on Jan 17, 2012 12:18 PM MST up reply actions
Great article
but this was funny
9-4 with a solid 4.59 ERA
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
JFK
I don't know about that.
I watched Charlie Hough have what I considered successful years in Texas with a knucleball surrounded by power pitchers. In some respects he was the stopper. An instant slump starter for opposeing teams.Those Texas teams were lousy in a hitter’s paradise and I am reminded of them in In previous Rockies teams.
There is something to said for having the guy in the middle of the rotation who has a completely different look. If Mos can keep the vast majority of those flyballs in the park at coors by being up all the time when everyone else is down; think how frustrateing that can be to a hitter liking his chops to golf a lot of low fastballs in the thin dry air here.
I think a lot of the Rox hitting woes stem from exactly that mind set instead of playing more fundemental hitting roles on a regular basis.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Not saying that all Rockies pitchers need to have 45-50% ground ball rates
but that having 3 guys in the rotation who don’t generate at least 40% ground balls could be a problem.
Pomeranz, Chatwood and White all have minor/major league GB rates in the high 40s to low 50s, and Outman’s rate pre-TJ was in the mid to high 40s. Chacin is a machine, and Hammel sits in the 40s and 50s.
And, Slowey has a pivotal attribute (stellar BB/9) that could allow him to succeed. So, maybe it’s not a big deal that Moscoso is Betancourt-esque. Even if he only becomes a solid bullpen piece or occasional starter, that’s not bad.
I take back some of the “acquiring GB pitchers is stupid” criticism.
knuckleballers should really not be mentioned as any kind of instructive or predictive point
they’re just too different and rare
arenado: it's Rockie for future
The point being that he was not expected to suceed in Texas with his stuff...
I think of the time Armondo Reynoso was our defacto ace. You don’t have to have 100mph stuff to succed here and I don’t think you have to be a predominate GB pitcher to succeed here.I think we should have a junkballer if not a knucleballer sitting around here to break up the monotony of everyone pounding the bottom of the zone. Part of what I like about Pom and White is they accept the art of changing speeds.
I think we limit ourselves by the fallacy that only the conventional Two Seam/ slider pitcher will succeed here. If Mos can break that trend we might be able to get other pitchers here. Don’t forget NOMO was considered to be one of the most unlikely pitchers to throw a nono at Coors.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Growing up near Dallas in the early to mid 80's...
It was always fun to watch Charlie Hough confound teams with double the talent level. There were times in that ’86 season when his knuckler was uncatchable let alone unhittable. Ask Gino Petralli and some of the other catchers that had to deal with him…
by WhiskeyDrinkingMan on Jan 17, 2012 10:15 PM MST up reply actions
The old 'Bronx Zoo' Yanks were certainly not a cohesive unit...
But every one of them tried to outplay each other. The same is true to an extent for the Jeter/A-Rod Yankees. The 2009 – 2011 Rockies clubhouse was a very cohesive unit – everyone liked each other (we think) and nobody wanted to rock the boat too much. Every player was, to coin a phrase: “very special.” If anything, we may have lacked tension.
I can’t say I applauded every move the Rox made this offseason but I’ll credit them with not just standing there and doing something.
P.S. I heard a rumour that a few years ago, Rox Girl spurned Keith Law’s amorous advances in some bar and ever since, he’s taken his misery out on the Rockies in general. Probably not true but that’s what I heard.
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
Plain Vanilla is Plain Vanilla...
But somehow FRENCH Vanilla is very different,
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
How can this be true:
The 2009 – 2011 Rockies clubhouse was a very cohesive unit – everyone liked each other (we think) and nobody wanted to rock the boat too much.
If what everyone has been saying about CDI, Smith, Stewart, etc. is also true?
I thought the clubhouse issue was lack of accountability and liking each other
Not that they were quiet clubhouse cancers
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 17, 2012 10:40 AM MST up reply actions
yes, that's somewhat what I was driving at.
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
What's the difference?
I’m not saying that they were intentionally exacerbating the situation (causing feuds, publicly calling out teammates, etc.), but if what people are saying is true – lack of accountability, personality differences – then I doubt those problems sprung up overnight.
Being a cohesive unit from 2009-11 and having clubhouse problems are not mutually exclusive, is what Since1993 is saying, I believe
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 17, 2012 10:48 AM MST up reply actions
I'm having a little trouble following
my thought is the performance and accountability issues were talked about at least in 2010. Maybe that was just external speculation, and the problem only manifested inside the clubhouse in 2011?
Kind of...
Nothing just happens immediately. It seems that late Summer 2011 was when optimism sort of died and fingers started to be pointed. Prior to that, I remember a lot of bonhomie stuff.
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
True, there were also a lot of expectations
and when those failed to meet reality, it had to be difficult to keep a happy face on.
So far so good -- they haven't finished trading yet
Team cohesiveness and unity are important. But you can have all that and still not play well. The cohesiveness needs to be such that they all play well as a team, and get results.
Teamwork is good. But even if you have disagreements on the team, you still need to play well. Just like clubhouse problems and team cohesiveness (per AF above) are not mutually exclusive, having team cohesiveness and winning consistently are not not always paired. You can have a few misunderstandings and still play well.
Sometime when you have too much cohesiveness its because the guys are being too mellow in their approach to winning. They get along good, and enjoy each other’s company, but they lack the killer instincts to go for the win.
I think Stewart and CDI were examples of this. They got along well with everyone, they played all right, but they were not high performing ball players. (CDI’s perfomnce was a lot better than Stewarts, although Stewart may have had more raw talent.)
By and large I think the team transition is a good one. Several mediocre performing players are gone. We have some new faces with exciting potential. It would be nice to see a real rocket arm among the acquistions, or a real hot bat, but it looks to me like the 2012 team will a lot better than the 2011 was. And they have not finished trading yet.
by Real Perspective on Jan 17, 2012 1:01 PM MST up reply actions
All the stories I remember reading were about how all those guys came up together and were all friends.
It would seem that, yes, that may have broken down somewhat last year.
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
Makes me feel like High School...
Oh the poor klick. DOD thought they grew stale togeather.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
go team, go
and hurry up with it…And I hate to say it but, we all have gotten on average 5 months older since the end of last season. mas o menos….
The Big Purple Machine will make a believer outta you!
ugh, don't remind me
I’ve almost had a driver’s license for a decade
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 17, 2012 8:12 AM MST via Android app up reply actions
What is keeping you from actually getting one?
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Jan 17, 2012 9:26 AM MST up reply actions 4 recs
well played
Die-hard Rockies fan since 1993.
Poo-Bah of the San Diego Padres in the Purple Row OOTP League.
@Paul_Franz
My blerg
by EmersonCR on Jan 17, 2012 9:36 AM MST via Android app up reply actions
Wasn't the endo f the regular season about 5 months ago?
Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
only if you assume the rockies checked out mid August, which might be accurate
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 17, 2012 8:16 AM MST via Android app up reply actions
That was my assumption.
Considering it didn’t feel like the Rockies in September when I went to see them in person.
Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
With so many young arms the probability, no, the certainty, is that a minority of them
Will overperform, perhaps significantly, and it’s THOSE players who we can, I hope, saddle and ride to glory.
And if they lose form, well, we’ll have plenty of young arms to replace them with.
PRMLB - The San Francisco Giants are better than you
how do you know which ones will overperform? Spring training doesn’t tend to be a good predictor of regular season success. Even a couple of regular season starts aren’t great predictors of future success.
This is exactly the problem I have with the strategy.
I think having an excess of pitchers is a good thing, but the idea that we can just get a whole bunch and then stick with the ones that blossom seems short sighted to me. How are you going to know which ones have figured it out and will succeed? Based on ST stats, a couple of spot starts, a few innings out of the bullpen, or perhaps results from AAA? The thing is, most of these guys won’t be starting for the major league club, so evaluating which ones have the ability to succeed in that role will be difficult. It’s still possible that the team gets lucky and one or more of these guys turns out to be great; I think it’s more likely that the fifth spot in the rotation becomes a revolving door or mediocrity. I think the worst case scenario would be that the Rockies miss out on identifying a guy that could succeed at the MLB level because they can’t properly evaluate him.
So, so, so exactly what I think about this "aquire all the young arms" stuff.
Depth and options are important to be sure. But I think the Rox transitioned from having depth/options to having glut/inefficiency about two transactions ago.
Sigh…
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
Oh, and the other thing...
This problem is only made worse by virtue of the fact that Colorado Springs is unusable for accurate evalution.
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
Yes, exactly this.
If they could realistically evaluate pitchers in AAA, this might not be a problem. Also as you said, depth is in general good, but I think the marginal value of starting pitchers is no longer positive. What I mean is that they’ve reached the point where adding more borderline starters doesn’t add (significant) value to the organization.
Even if there's 40% underperformance in April
there’s enough time left in the season to sort it out. Especially since it’s clear (to me) that the goal is not to compete unless it’s completely by accident.
But how much of an opportunity do you give to each guy in order to sort it out?
Are eight starts enough to decide whether a pitcher is worth holding on to? I see 12 starters on the 40 man according to Rockies Roster, 13 if you count Rogers. Cabrera will probably spend the season in the minors, and I suppose Chatwood might as well. Four more seem to be considered part of the team’s future (DLR, Pomeranz, Chacin, Nicasio). That means there are seven options for one spot. Some of these guys aren’t going to get much of an opportunity to develop and/or prove themselves.
That's certainly a problem...
guys are going to react differently to demotions to the Springs or bullpen (which may or may not help them). You can’t always blame the players for not reacting with rainbows and sunshine to management’s decisions.
And it's not just about their reactions.
For example, if Chatwood is sent to the pen and puts up a 4.80 FIP or 1.7 BB/K or whatever metric you want to use that suggests he’s not performing well over the course of ~20 innings, is that enough to say he won’t make it as a starter? Probably not. At the same time, if he has a 4.00 FIP and 2.5 BB/K ratio, are you going to make him the #5 starter and demote someone else? Probably not unless the guy there already is really struggling, but once again you have to wonder if ~1/4 of a season is enough to say he won’t eventually succeed.
May I suggest that this kind of situation may be where scouting comes into its own?
PRMLB - The San Francisco Giants are better than you
Haven't seen it yet.
I’m either playing Skyrim or practicing MLB the Show 2011 so I’m ready for 2012 to come out.
Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
want to mail it to me?
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Sure.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
I can see how you can get bored with it.
I’ve been playing in small doses. Only lvl 16 right now.
Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
Me too - level 14 and very much enjoying it still, but I can see it could become boring.
PRMLB - The San Francisco Giants are better than you
This is my eternal feeling about Bethesda games
They can fill them with quests and shiny graphics, but in the end they’re always empty to me. Needless to say, I haven’t gotten Skyrim, and likely won’t (unless I can get it super cheap).
Die-hard Rockies fan since 1993.
Poo-Bah of the San Diego Padres in the Purple Row OOTP League.
@Paul_Franz
My blerg
by EmersonCR on Jan 17, 2012 9:40 AM MST via Android app up reply actions
I'm not impressed with Skyrim's graphics.
But I haven’t been playing it on the PC. You can definitely see the limitations on the XBox and PS3.
Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
i did too
that’s why whatever deity you believe in gave us the old republic and BF3
arenado: it's Rockie for future
The last non-sports game I played was the fourth Crash Bandicoot game. No Skyrim, no Call of Duty, no Halo, none of that. The Show in the spring/summer, NCAA Football/FIFA/Madden in the fall/winter.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
I'm The Show + FIFA on PS3.
But do Battlefield 3 and Star Wars: The Old Republic on PC.
Thats all the gaming I do. (still probably too much)
SW:TOR
That’s like a drug addict saying, “I only smoke all the crack”
I’m going to be that way as soon as Blizzard releases Diablo 3.
Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
skyrim sucked my life away
I’ve played it for far too many hours.
by Purple Row Troll on Jan 17, 2012 9:47 AM MST up reply actions
But now I rediscovered my old Battletech book series
and decided to try that out for a little while. Turns out half these books are out of print and worth a lot of $$$. Read or sell to build my race car… hmmm.
by Purple Row Troll on Jan 17, 2012 9:48 AM MST up reply actions
Yes I just revealed how big of a nerd I am
suck it
by Purple Row Troll on Jan 17, 2012 9:51 AM MST up reply actions
You participate on an online blog
You were outed a long time ago.
Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
On the plus side, skyrim got my gf into video games
by Purple Row Troll on Jan 17, 2012 10:43 AM MST up reply actions
Reading it now. Then I’ll watch…was planning on reading it before the movie came out, but my book queue is effin’ burly at the moment.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
by cthabeerman on Jan 17, 2012 10:23 AM MST up reply actions
It took me two short nights to read
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 17, 2012 10:40 AM MST up reply actions
Yeah, it’s a fast read.
I take public transportation, so I do most of my reading there. If I keep up my current pace, I should be done when I get off the bus tomorrow nite. Then it’s back to Hemingway, Fitzgerald, Robbins, or Conrad…
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
by cthabeerman on Jan 17, 2012 11:09 AM MST up reply actions
Moscoso's perhaps the offseason's most curious addition to me...
The scouting report says he pitches 88-91, but he’s averaged just a shade under 91 mph on his FB in his MLB career thus far. He’s been remarkably effective since he added a cutter. He had eight middle or top of the rotation worthy starts last season, eight bottom of the rotation starts, and four AAAA disasters. Before the cutter he had an ISO of .158 and a K/BB rate of 30/23, after the ISO was .115 as he gave up fewer HR’s and he had a K/BB rate of 44/15. None of his other batted ball peripherals changed, though, but the difference in the K/BB rate alone has me encouraged that he might actually be a decent bottom of the rotation add.
Good find. There’s some potential there.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
I'm amused to no end that the optimism in potential stems from the addition of a cutter
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 17, 2012 8:54 AM MST up reply actions
frankly, that's about all there is to build a case for Moscoso on,
but the good news is that there’s at least the beginning of evidence that there is such a case to be built for once in MLB game results and not via some mythical Spring Training trope.
Hopefully he'll have NL hitters crying...
“Spare Us the ”http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7feTT_vvaw" target="new">Cutter"
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
Damn!
Spare Us the Cutter
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
The real ? is will he have enough movement here ?
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Offseason: Success
Got rid of all the jinxy players and outright busts. No more horse crap platoon in the OF. Tracy might be able to actually keep a solid lineup through May. I am pumped for the start of the season now.
What the hell you lookin' at?
Yes
because there’s not going to be a revolving door at 2b this year, with those guys mixing in at 3rd also.
At least the revolving door will be hitting 8th.
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com
Leading the Astros into the Future. Go, Go Astros!
by DumbAndNerdy on Jan 17, 2012 9:06 AM MST up reply actions
DOD said the 2B is going to hit 8th this year.
Thank God.
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com
Leading the Astros into the Future. Go, Go Astros!
by DumbAndNerdy on Jan 17, 2012 9:16 AM MST up reply actions
exactly
1 thru 6 should be set in stone. At least a very hard laminate.
What the hell you lookin' at?
by Johnny Tits on Jan 17, 2012 10:10 AM MST up reply actions
This day in Rockies transactions:
2011: Signed Jason Giambi
2005: Signed Travis Phelps
2004: Signed Mark Sweeney
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 17, 2012 8:57 AM MST reply actions
2012: Jamie Moyer
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Did Moyer agree to go on the Rockies minor league circuit?
Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
Didn't see this posted yesterday - BA is fairly evenhanded on the Smith trade
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/majors/trade-central/2012/2612813.html
Point out the obvious with the ballpark factors, but make a pretty solid case for the usefulness of the pitchers we acquired.
Supposedly Gavin Floyd is available
Sure, #OccupyAllYoungArms
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
He's actually pretty good
Good control (career 2.96 BB/9, better in last three seasons), above average K rate (6.89 K/9, better in last three seasons), and solid GB rate (44.1%, career high 49.9% in 2010).
He’d be a pretty good fit for Coors, and is “only” owed $16.5M for the next two years.
yes
arenado: it's Rockie for future
what was the rumor last year? Floyd for Stewart?
Was there more to it?
PRMLB - Tampa Bay Rays
by purplesocks on Jan 17, 2012 11:18 AM MST up reply actions
was it stew and dex or stew or dex?
PRMLB - Tampa Bay Rays
by purplesocks on Jan 17, 2012 12:26 PM MST up reply actions
With this log jam of unproven pitchers we have
Alex White/Chad Bettis and maybe Kyle Parker would likely get it done
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
i'd do white and parker for floyd
arenado: it's Rockie for future
with two years of control we may have to throw a Cabrera/Adames level prospect
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
i'd throw in cabrera
no problem with that
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Considering what they sold Quentin and Santos for I think they would listen to that offer
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
http://isgavinfloydabluejay.com/
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
He'd be a fine get
But probably not at the cost Kenny Williams will seek. Overpaying for a middle of the rotation pitcher is not worth it, imo.
I can't help but agree with a lot of criticism.
Now, I don’t think we are a worse team, but I can’t say we are a better team either. A lot of these moves are very marginal upgrades at best, and all the players we have acquired seem to have too many holes in their games or don’t really fit well in this situation.
Agree completely
we completely underachieved as a team last year so i wouldn’t be surprised if we improved to an 80 win team due to better play from 3rd base and possibly 2nd. That said, I’m ready for spring training and opening day (i got my tickets!)
I’m very curious to see who actually makes the 40 man roster since it just seems like too many names at this point. Does anyone have an updated 40 man roster?
PRMLB Owner of the STL Red Birds
by Cargo'es Yard on Jan 17, 2012 10:38 AM MST up reply actions
Took to the internets and I found the 40 man roster
http://colorado.rockies.mlb.com/team/roster_40man.jsp?c_id=col
they’re all there.
PRMLB Owner of the STL Red Birds
by Cargo'es Yard on Jan 17, 2012 10:44 AM MST up reply actions
Always, always, always stop at Rockies Roster first
http://rockiesroster.com/rockies/40-man/
Purple Row - For all of your Colorado Rockies-related needs
Learn about Batting Metrics
Learn about Pitching Metrics
PRMLB Marlins
by Andrew Martin on Jan 17, 2012 10:23 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
rec
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
JFK
Indeed, it's always more up to date and accurate
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 18, 2012 10:14 AM MST up reply actions
I think the whole plan is to get off of everyone's radar.
Once people write them off, helloooooo NL West Champs.
Seriously, I’m forever an optimist, they’ll probably go a 162-0. But in reality, this will be an interesting season. I just hope it’s not boring.
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Jan 17, 2012 9:41 AM MST reply actions
I just hope it’s not boring.
word.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
PRMLB: The Brew Crew
/2011 (before September) wasn't all that boring.
But I definitely don’t want that again.
Altar Boy in the Church of Santo Ubaldo
"...buffalo chicken is a fine anti-depressant, after all." -UZ
"... One order of buffalo wings, please..." -Yokel, after July 30, 2011
Sooo... now that we actually HAVE acquired all the young arms...
What now?
by Purple Row Troll on Jan 17, 2012 9:50 AM MST reply actions
Same thing we do every night
Try to take over the world!
Die-hard Rockies fan since 1993.
Poo-Bah of the San Diego Padres in the Purple Row OOTP League.
@Paul_Franz
My blerg
by EmersonCR on Jan 17, 2012 9:52 AM MST via Android app up reply actions
..acquire MORE young arms?
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Acquire one competent 2nd baseman...
Jason Giambi for player-manager in 2012!
How the world will end in 2012: George of the Roses builds a Machine that Pommels everyone with La Violencia during Whiteouts.
yeah, like that'll ever happen
arenado: it's Rockie for future
My idea...
Now that the Rox have such great depth at SP, perhaps they should package a couple of thier young/high-ceiling guys for one proven SP. Fitting the Rockies’ model, that SP would ideally:
1. Be team/cost-controled for at least a season or two.
2. Be your classic upside/bounce-back candidate, available only because he’s coming off a down year.
3. Have the kind of groundball/strikeout stuff that plays well at Coors Field.
Maybe the Rox could package Pomeranz and Alex White in a deal for the Indian’s Ubaldo Jimenez?
Just a small town kid who thinks Coors Field on a sunny summer Saturday night is the best place to be on this or any other plane of existence. When a late-inning Todd Helton go-ahead homerun is added to this scenario, my brain melts.
by Gasstation1 on Jan 17, 2012 10:04 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
acquire all the old arms too
The off-season sucks.
That is all.
by DAWNMARIE01 on Jan 17, 2012 10:07 AM MST up reply actions
GET YOUR BOWLING HERE!!!
"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"
Luftfeuchtigkeitsregler über alles.
by The Lodo Magic Man on Jan 17, 2012 1:09 PM MST up reply actions
Listening the Rockies Primetime broadcast last night
Jack Corrigan referenced that Athletics Nation piece about Moscoso, not by name but about the side by side pre and post cutter
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
what is really great about that article is that it was written before Moscoso dominated September
where he posted a .69 Whip and a 4.40 K/9 in fact if those articles were correct his numbers after adding the cutter he pitched 91 innings in 15 Games 60/21 K/BB.
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Marc Normandin jumps on
Did the Rockies Forget About Coors Field?
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 17, 2012 10:12 AM MST reply actions
This basically sums up the way I've come to think about the trade
In the long run, these arms don’t matter. They are acting as a bridge towards the pitchers who do: Drew Pomeranz, Tyler Chatwood, Alex White, and Juan Nicasio. It’s just disturbing in the short-term, if you’re a Rockies fan, to see temporary bridges built with such a disregard for the environment they’re placed in, especially after the team had the success they did with Jimenez, Cook, and present-day starters like Jorge de la Rosa and Jhoulys Chacin.
However, if the rotation is Chacin, Hammel, Pom, Nicasio and Chatwood/Slowey/Moscoso, I don’t think we’re in as bad of shape as people think right now. And if it shakes out like that, there are some sweet options for the bullpen.
Thats a ton of inexperience in the rotation
Chacin is even still not the total package that we expect him to be. Nicasio, Pomeranz, White and Chatwood have very little MLB experience and that’s going to show. Its not a bad thing, but its a reality. These guys look encouraging and they’re going to be fun to watch this season and see how they improve and what the future looks like for them, but if you think there’s not going to be lots of growing pains and failure, you’re not looking at this realistically.
There aren't a lot of experienced options
I’m just dealing with the reality of the moment. Moyer, Millwood or whoever may still add experience, and we’ll get DLR back mid-seasons so… there’s some.
Inexperienced, especially with questionable talent is not great, but the 2003 Marlins had a pretty young rotation (though Pavano and Redman had more experience than Chacin and Hammel).
Things are still wide open on the starting rotation
We still don’t know what we got in regards to a starting rotation. Pomeranz seems to have the right stuff, but White is still a AAA pitcher. Nicasio has proven his place. Chatwood is still an unknown, far as I can tell.
I don’t consider White a real prospect as yet, and Chatwood is just too fresh to know what he could do.
I am not sure if it is better to take a risk with younger pitchers, or trust to mature pitchers with rag arms and lingering injuries.
Tryin to figure out how Jamie Moyer is actually going to help. This is a wiat and see I suppose. It is unclear how close the Rox are to actually signing him.
by Real Perspective on Jan 17, 2012 1:10 PM MST up reply actions
Why is White not a "real" prospect
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
he exhausted his rookie eligibility
had more than 50 IP
arenado: it's Rockie for future
the "as yet" in that sentence implies that RP doesn't think White has done "enough"
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
well, he's technically not a prospect at all at this point
so RP’s just wrong
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Impressive that he's not a real prospect yet when 12 months ago he was the Indians #1, er, prospect
PRMLB - The San Francisco Giants are better than you
I think we as a community are underselling White.
I know he didn’t fare well in the late-season audition, but he started pretty well with the Tribe before getting injured. I have him penciled in to my sunnyside rotation:
Chacin
Hammel
Nicasio
White
Slowey/Pomeranz/Chatwood/rest of the chum.
Then JDLR in July to replace the weakest link.
I like him a lot a it would take a nice return to want to part with him
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
considering his ceiling seems to be curt schilling
i agree
arenado: it's Rockie for future
I could see him pitching that well
but at the same time he hasn’t shown that he can recover from the injury. As I recall, the Indians had another pitching prospect with a similar injury who never recovered, which was part of the reason they were willing to deal White. What if he never gets back to the guy he was before the injury?
Chatwood is kind of a more raw version of White
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
But my point is that a lot of people are discounting the injury.
Perhaps he will return to prior form, but I don’t think it’s an assumption that should be made automatically.
Jason Jennings lost a season to a finger injury in 2005
and had a career year the next year.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
Pretty much what I've been saying since the offseason began.
I believe White will be in the rotation on OD.
@DylanZable
by CentralCaliRox on Jan 17, 2012 1:46 PM MST up reply actions
Agree
I’d be happy if the Rockies started with a Chacin-Nicasio-Outman-White-Hammel rotation that evolved into a Chacin-Nicasio-De la Rosa-White-Pomeranz rotation by season’s end. Outman is moved to the bullpen when De la Rosa returns and Hammel is eventually replaced by Pomeranz.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
I was shocked at how ineffective White was last year
But his mechanics were completely messed up. One night George Frazier actually stopped babbling about food and Oklahoma long enough to explain how White was spinning on his front foot instead of driving toward the plate. He broke it down pretty well, and said he felt we would see a different pitcher in 2012. I hope he is right.
by Northsider1964 on Jan 17, 2012 2:45 PM MST up reply actions
50 innings does not determine whether a pitcher is a failure of a prospect
A fully healthy Alex White next year is Aaron Cook in his prime with more strikeouts.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
matzek
arenado: it's Rockie for future
I also think this article fits in with a topic at hand today.
Why National Baseball Writers Should Avoid Writing Team-Specific Articles by Eric Simon at Amazin’ Avenue.
It’s just so difficult to be fully accurate and fair when you cannot possibly have spent enough time researching every nuance and relevant quote. I strongly considered writing for Fangraphs, but the prospect of writing an instant analysis on an Orioles/Pirates trade made me realize how virtually impossible it is to get the proper pulse on everything. Even great writers who research deeply are bound to miss something. That is one reason I love the team specific blogs. Even with the inevitable objectivity hit, the information is completely unparalleled.
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 17, 2012 10:17 AM MST reply actions
#LOLCOORZ
End of story?
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
Really, there's more to the story?
That’s not what I’ve been reading. Explain!
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
The argument about GB pitchers vs FB pitchers
is not a lolCOORZ argument. It applies to any park that is not Petco or Safeco-esque.
exactly
see pineda, michael
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Hello?
Only one park ever need be mentioned when discussing park effects. Or home/road splits. It’s like night follows day.
True story: The 1984 Cubs were known as pretty poor fielders so the grounds crew allowed the grass to grow enough to sl ow balls down. An old trick but a good’un.
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
it's true, and that's the sad part
nobody said a freaking thing about josh hamilton when he ran away with the 2010 MVP
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Lee Elia had an unbelievable rant in 1983 before being fired
Check it out on youtube if you’ve never heard it.
I do remember that one!
Too f***ing funny!
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
And I think that raises hackles among we Rockies fans.
At least it does in my case. There are some universal truths about groundballers usually being more successful everywhere than flyballers and hitters doing better at home than on the road but we just get the LOLCOORZ treatment.
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
There are too many baseball writers. That's the problem.
In pre-Internet days, I could safely assume that the folks writing the pieces I was reading in, say, The Sporting News, knew as much about baseball as me, and probably a lot more. They’d made their way to the top of the field by covering minor league teams and major league teams. They hung around clubhouses and picked people’s brains. I didn’t always agree with what they wrote, but they’d established their knowledge to the point where I could respect it.
But the current truth is this: it’s far to easy to become a “national baseball writer” today. Get a domain, set up Wordpress and voila you’re ready to bloviate.
My suggestion – let’s ignore what anyone else has to say about this team. Let’s trust our own (often superior) judgements, and then let’s see what’s on the field come April.
(Disclaimer: This criticism doesn’t apply to the writers on this site. That’s not ass-kissing, it’s the truth. The folks here know their stuff, whether I agree or not. We’re lucky to have them.)
So you're saying many writers are just blank talking heads?
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 17, 2012 11:25 AM MST up reply actions
Absolutely!
Back in the day, you had to be something of a wordsmith and pay your dues covering the game. Now you need only an internet connection. (Yes, present company excluded.)
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
don't forget
last offseason everyone agreed that we were the class of the NL west and were going to run away with the division
arenado: it's Rockie for future
That means we're gonna win!
It’s foolproof1
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 17, 2012 11:28 AM MST up reply actions
Someone likes the Rockies offseason!
JimBowdenESPNxm
Rockies have had a great make-over since July…newest Rockie Michael Cuddyer will tell us about his new home… Sirius 209 XM 89 2pm est
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 17, 2012 11:29 AM MST reply actions
And to my point above.....
Here’s someone who, I can safely say, knows more about baseball than we do. 25 years in front offices. Again, you don’t have to agree with him, but you have to respect his opinion.
no i don't
arenado: it's Rockie for future
I'm not sure I agree.
By that argument, Keith Law also knows more about baseball than we do and therefore we should respect his opinion. I think a better approach is just to take everything in and evaluate it individually. Some of the bloggers are probably full of crap, and some of the good bloggers make errors. That doesn’t mean we should ignore everything that isn’t pro-Rockies and blindly accept the things that are. As usual, the truth is somewhere in the middle.
I see how you thought I had blinders on re: pro or con Rockies....
but that really wasn’t my point. It just worked out that way with Bowden. If Bowden had, for example, said the Rox had stumbled badly, I’d feel the same way. Not that I would agree or disagree with him, but that I’d know there was at least some expertise behind his comments.
Keith Law worked 4 years in baseball, Bowden spent a quarter century. So yeah, there’s a difference.
Even so, you’re right — Law is at least deserving of consideration because of his resume. Does he have some weird thing with the Rockies? I guess so, so maybe that leavens things a bit.
My main point — just because someone dubs himself a “national baseball writer” doesn’t mean his opinions are worth a damn. Whether they’re for against the Rox really doesn’t matter, regardless of what drove me to make the point in the first place.
Yeah, I agree with your last point for the most part.
As long as we’re not just wearing purple tinted shades and blinders the whole time. There are definitely some writers who I don’t trust as much as others.
Make-over??!! really
where’s Ty to “Move that bus!!!” ??
//Throw-up
This is a baseball team not a girls day at the spa!!!
The Big Purple Machine will make a believer outta you!
by El Paso Jeff on Jan 17, 2012 11:34 AM MST up reply actions
OT: Holy mackerel, this is awesome
“Sparkles! I told you not to do the sparkles!”
Is that cheese on her head?
The off-season sucks.
That is all.
by DAWNMARIE01 on Jan 17, 2012 12:39 PM MST up reply actions
looks like a cheesehead version
of Homer’s Nacho Hat. “Nacho, Nacho Man, I want to be a Nacho Man”
Is it April yet?
you have never seen a cheese head hat before? Pp
Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
by Thnikkaman on Jan 17, 2012 6:05 PM MST via Android app up reply actions
I get tired of the Coors field reputation.
I realize that it is a hitters park but since the humidor has been used, it is not as big a deal as it used to be. I looked at ballpark stats on ESPN and it showed that the Rangers Park was more of a hitters park than Coors field. Why doesn’t people talk about the inflated numbers of Rangers ballpark. I would like to see actual figures from each ballpark but I can’t find them.
ESPN is a decent park factor, but I prefer Baseball Reference.com (it's on each team's homepage)
and StatCorner.com for the specific components. Coors is definitely at the top, likely still the top. But it’s not in its own galaxy anymore.
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 17, 2012 12:21 PM MST up reply actions
That LD factor is huge.
Though I think there is probably more uncertainty for line drives. I read an article a couple years back on how classification of balls in play varied from park to park because of the location of the press box. Line drive vs. fly ball was the category most affected.
You'd think it would be harder to explain to people how thin, dry air affects baseballs
than actual park dimensions. Like the short RF porch at new Yankee Stadium: easy to get.
But the pre-humidor reputation was pretty well earned and hard for non-Rockies fans to let go.
loney signs for $6.375m
seems like a bit of an overpay for a career 107 wRC+ first baseman
arenado: it's Rockie for future
rays paying david price $4.35m
amusing contrast to what the dodgers gave loney
arenado: it's Rockie for future
little bit different situations
Loney is in his final arb year vs Price just now entering his arb years.
Plus Loney was worth 2.3 WAR last year. Doesn’t seem like that much of an overpay.
PRMLB - Tampa Bay Rays
by purplesocks on Jan 17, 2012 12:56 PM MST up reply actions
i doubt loney gets that much on the open market
if they non-tendered him first, they probably could have had him for 3 or 4 mil, and they still have kershaw to pay for this year.
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Major leage GMs who want to put a successful team on the field.
Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
More like...
Major league GMs who are unable or unwilling to get premium players.
Reminds me of the stupid platoon debates.
You don’t see people worrying about platooning guys like Helton or Pujols (for obvious reasons).
Platoon situations arise because you don’t have a good enough player to play every day so you are just trying to patch together something that sucks less by using two mediocre guys and taking advantage of platoon splits.
Helton was often platooned in his early years
because the team didn’t want to wreck his confidence by running him out against tough lefties.
Seriously?
How did he manage 530 ABs in his rookie season while being platooned?
seth smith had 533 PAs last year
and there is no question he was platooned
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Yeah, which is about 50 more ABs than Helton's rookie season
I guess it was really just 97-98, but the point stands.
Stupid manager
A stupid manager doesn’t prove much other than a stupid manager, IMO.
Hell, I remember Larry Walker being sat against Randy Johnson atleast once. What does that prove?
My general point is that worrying about splits is primarily important when you are dealing with players who shouldn’t be be playing every day (or pitching every fifth day).
Not only are these marginal players…..marginal but they are also likely, IMO, to be prone to far more fluctuation in performance than quality every day players.
Walker sat against Randy a lot more than once
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 17, 2012 1:38 PM MST up reply actions
I wanted to be careful
With all of the nitpicking going on today I didn’t want to derail things even further.
I was certain it happened atleast once so that is what I stated.
wasn't that Walker's choice too?
PRMLB - Tampa Bay Rays
Ground ball pitchers
Even when fringy groundball pitchers have success in Colorado they rarely follow it up with success a second year.
ubaldo, francis, chacin, cook
all of our “franchise pitchers” have been groundball guys
arenado: it's Rockie for future
wasn't that kruk?
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Definitely happened with Walker too
From here.
“The sellout crowd was treated to a highlight for the ages when Colorado Rockies representative, Larry Walker, stepped in to face intimidating lefty, Randy Johnson. Walker, who led the majors with a .398 average, backed out of an Interleague Game against Johnson earlier in the season, but there was no hiding this time.
In a scene reminiscent of his 1993 performance against John Kruk, Johnson threw the first pitch over Walker’s head. In response, Walker laughed, turned his helmet backward moved to the right side of the plate, and took ball two. Walker eventually drew a walk from the Seattle fireballer. "
Die-hard Rockies fan since 1993.
Poo-Bah of the San Diego Padres in the Purple Row OOTP League.
@Paul_Franz
My blerg
Walker didn't back out of anything
I remember Leyland or Bell saying they sat Walker against Johnson because “facing Johnson as a LHP leads to a two week slump”
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
obviously I need to read down before posting
but man was that funny. and probably the biggest indictment ever of why the ASG was so lame.
Walker could develop a tight hamstring
at the very mention of Randy Johnson’s name.
by Northsider1964 on Jan 17, 2012 1:43 PM MST up reply actions
Greg Colbrunn was signed for the '98 season...
specifically to provide a righthanded bat in case Helton couldn’t handle southpaw pitching.
When Helton proved otherwise, Colbrunn—-batting .311—- was traded in late July.
But Helton had 595 PAs his rookie season
and 152 games played…
Die-hard Rockies fan since 1993.
Poo-Bah of the San Diego Padres in the Purple Row OOTP League.
@Paul_Franz
My blerg
and lost rookie of the year by 9 votes
to kerry “look at me and my strikeouts, i’m so special” wood
arenado: it's Rockie for future
I remember that
Hard to say he got LOLCOORZ’d though. Wood did have a hell of a rookie season.
Die-hard Rockies fan since 1993.
Poo-Bah of the San Diego Padres in the Purple Row OOTP League.
@Paul_Franz
My blerg
Oops
Hit enter by accident.
My point was that GB/FB ratios don’t matter much when the pitcher isn’t very good.
They also don’t matter much when the pitcher is really good.
.
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Neither
Look at the Pomeranz trade or the Pineda trade – the fly ball style of the pitchers merited a half sentence mention in the trade summaries. Why? Because they are very talented and will have success in any park and the GB/FB tendencies will probably show up in the stats but will not determine overall success for them.
Other than at Petco (guys like Chris Young) I can’t really remember any pitcher recently who dominated in one place and likely could not have done so at other parks.
Look at the Pomeranz trade or the Pineda trade – the fly ball style of the pitchers merited a half sentence mention in the trade summaries.
clearly you haven’t spent much time on fangraphs or pinstripe alley lately… and since when is pomeranz an extreme flyballer like pineda?
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Pomeranz
I didn’t claim that he is an extreme flyball pitcher.
that is in fact exactly what your sentence claims
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Extreme
Other than you adding in an adjective like ‘extreme’ that is correct, our two sentences are identical.
Look at the Pomeranz trade or the Pineda trade – the fly ball style of the pitchers merited a half sentence mention in the trade summaries.
no, they are not. your sentence claims pomeranz is a fly ball pitcher.
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Odd
I can understand your refusal to intentionally misinterpret something that I said but your inability to read your own post is surprising.
the way you constructed your sentence
you are claiming that pomeranz and pineda were both flyball pitchers; pineda is most certainly an extreme flyballer, as he had the 7th lowest GB% of qualified starters last year, but pomeranz has never demonstrated such tendencies in statistically significant samples
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Goldstein
Here is the best (most credentialed I guess) mention of his fly-ball tendencies that I could find with some quick searching:
“But a word of warning: He’s a fly-ball pitcher, so he’ll need to miss bats to avoid that becoming a problem in Coors.”
that's interesting that he'd say that
because as deacs’s link just below shows, it’s just not been true
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Seriously?
The sample size is pretty limited.
Akron is the only place where he pitched enough innings to even bother looking at the stats. Granted he had a good GB rate there.
His junior year in college he also had a pretty good GB rate so there is that as well.
There aren’t great samples but what samples there are do seem to indicate that he has a pretty good GB rate.
The scouting reports don’t all seem to back that up though so who knows.
BTW
I was comparing Pineda and Pomeranz because they are both elite starting pitching prospects with minimal MLB time.
There is a real small sample size (even historically) of top level pitching prospects who are MLB ready being traded so the comparisons aren’t going to be exact.
Perhaps I am mistaken
I had thought that I remember some mentions about flyball tendencies when reading some of the write-ups about the trades.
Bob Boring made the article
Everything else was just Gravy after that.
Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
One of my classmates in college was a Mr. Boring
And we all called each other by our last names in class. So he couldn’t really hide. Also, the name fit in his case.
Die-hard Rockies fan since 1993.
Poo-Bah of the San Diego Padres in the Purple Row OOTP League.
@Paul_Franz
My blerg
They left out Rich Batchelor
Journeyman pitcher. I remember some announcer noting that “Ladies will be disappointed to learn that Rich Batchelor is neither”
Moses Poolaw
Should be the fictional park ranger – a la Smokey the Bear – who monitors all off-leash dog parks.
by Northsider1964 on Jan 17, 2012 1:48 PM MST up reply actions
Wonder if Josh Outman will ever make the list?
Freddy Thrower is on there after all.
The off-season sucks.
That is all.
Can someone help me find Seth Smith's MiLB L/R numbers?
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
To re-iterate
When/if these guys get blown up in Colorado it won’t be because they have bad splits – it will be because they aren’t very good.
Why didn't you say that in the first place?
Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
Figured it was obvious
It didn’t dawn on me until way late in the argument that anyone might actually think that I was asserting that these guys would be great here.
FWIW, I get what you're saying
And mostly agree. Causality is not always so simple, which is often the flaw in making player decisions via advanced stats. This is a good example: The Rockies philosophy has for some time to draft and acquire (especially in the Latin market) pitchers with GB tendencies. Therefore, it’s not surprising that most of our best pitchers over the years have been GB pitchers. Whether Coors field is enough of a danger for FB pitchers to make the relationship causal (the park causes a strong bias in favor of GB pitchers) or incidental (our best pitching prospects have been GB pitchers by design) is open to debate, especially since there are three extreme FB parks in our division.
Also, in a situation like ours, where not everyone will agree to pitch here, you take the best pitchers you can find. IMO, pitching at Coors is mostly mental anyway.
by BostonTransplant on Jan 17, 2012 2:09 PM MST up reply actions
I learned never to judge any pticher until I see him.....
….with JDLR. He was touted as garbage when he got here, and he looked that way for the first few starts. Then he and Apodaca clicked.
I know he gets griped on from time to time but, IMO, we have a hell of a pitching coach. Let’s see what he does with these young ’uns before we write anyone off.
JDLR had talent
JDLR was risky and his result were bad but he had a high enough ceiling that if things broke right he could be very good.
Chatwood falls in the same category which is why that acquisition, IMO, was defensible (even if I don’t love it).
Guys like Moscoscos and Slowey will only be ‘decent’ if everything breaks right and the more likely outcome is that they are a disaster.
Best pitcher/player
Exactly what I am trying to point out.
Give me a good player with bad splits (or bad match-up) over a replacement level player with good splits/match-ups any day of the week.
Obviously you can’t have good players at every single spot on the roster which is why even great teams keep guys with platoon splits or lefty specialists or other match-up type players.
When you are making major moves and adding guys who are meant to be big pick-ups and you are cutting it so close that splits will determine the success of the player then you are in big trouble, IMO.
This should be one intriguig Spring in Scottsdale
I can’t remember another time where I saw this many pitching pieces floating in question. Off the top of my head, I count 16 pitchers – SIXTEEN PITCHERS!!! – who could be in the rotation by mid summer if things break correctly for them. (And this doesn’t even include other pitchers who the Rockies might trade for between now and then) Some are certainly long shots but this list fascinates me…..
The Favorites…
1) Jhoulys Chacin
2) Jason Hammel
3) Jorge de la Rosa (Once he comes back from injury)
4) Juan Nicasio
5) Drew Pomeranz
The I have absolutely no clues….
6) Alex White
7) Tyler Chatwood
8) Kevin Slowey
9) Josh Outman
10) Guillermo Moscoso
11) Esmil Rogers
The Long Shots
12) Chad Bettis
13) Edwar Cabrera
14) Joe Gardner
15) Christian Friedrich
16) Rob Scahill
Wow!!! I could play the game of “assign each player their position on August 1st (Rotation, bullpun, AAA, or AA)” but I don’t think anyone, including the Rockies themselves are exactly sure where all these pieces are going to fit in as we head through the coming months. If nothing else, this is going to be interesting, which is already more than can be said for the poppycock that was 2011.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 17, 2012 2:02 PM MST reply actions
You forgot Jamie Moyer
So, 17. Perhaps we’re just going to make our 25-man roster 23 pitchers plus Tulo and Cargo?
Die-hard Rockies fan since 1993.
Poo-Bah of the San Diego Padres in the Purple Row OOTP League.
@Paul_Franz
My blerg
details, schmetails
As far as I’m concerned, he’s playing 14th-starter / third base.
Die-hard Rockies fan since 1993.
Poo-Bah of the San Diego Padres in the Purple Row OOTP League.
@Paul_Franz
My blerg
Rogers for 2B!
He probably wouldn’t hit that much worse than the other options, and it would preclude him from pitching…
by Northsider1964 on Jan 17, 2012 2:13 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Or, if things don't break correctly for any of them, they might still end up in the rotation
SIXTEEN PITCHERS!!! – who could be in the rotation by mid summer if things break correctly for them.
by Northsider1964 on Jan 17, 2012 2:09 PM MST up reply actions
I'm not a math major
but my (at times) foolishly optimistic brain wants to believe that there’s no way statistically possible that all 16 of them can get injured/fall flat on their face this season. Odds are that there’s at least a couple of diamonds in that pile. The Rockies job now is to identify them.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 17, 2012 2:14 PM MST up reply actions
It is
it was someone’s response to a person rejecting all statistical arguments on a player. Don’t even remember who it was
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 17, 2012 2:27 PM MST up reply actions
Heres the link
President of Baseball Operations for the PRMLB Atlanta Braves
Ha ha, that was me.
I was adapting a quote by Gob in “Arrested Development.”
I think we would be better off targeting Ivan Nova.
He went 16-4 last year with at 3.70 ERA. I’ll bet if we threw in Arenado (Arod will become a DH soon) and Pomeranz (his 5.40 ERA last year sucked) we could make it happen.
by RoxnSox09 on Nov 29, 2011 3:09 PM PST up actions 2 recs
oh god
at first I thought you were serious.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
by Muzia on Nov 29, 2011 3:12 PM PST up actions
No, I totally am.
I heard the jury’s still out on … math.
by RoxnSox09 on Nov 29, 2011 3:13 PM PST up actions 14 recs
President of Baseball Operations for the PRMLB Atlanta Braves
I will now look into my crystal ball and predict....
Chacin
Nicasio
Pomeranz
White
Slowey
Hammel will be traded for the great lost second baseman. Slowey will be trade bait when DLR returns. Tyler Chatwood will be in the rotation the first time someone goes down, and he will stay there.
I further predict that the fall’s hot color will be “merlot”, the stock market will hit 14,000 and, in October, as the Rockies pour champagne on one another after winning the world series, Keith Law will tweet “I don’t get what the Rockies are doing”
by evers44 on Jan 17, 2012 2:14 PM MST up reply actions 7 recs
You get a rec for the amazing final sentence of this comment.
Die-hard Rockies fan since 1993.
Poo-Bah of the San Diego Padres in the Purple Row OOTP League.
@Paul_Franz
My blerg
Opening day
I’m predicting Chacin, Hammel, Pomeranz, Nicasio, Outman.
But, who the hell knows. There is still a month for a lot of stuff to happen.
Alex White is my four star special
You watch. He’s gonna be a stud for us.
Brandon Webb 2: Electric Boogaloo
"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"
Luftfeuchtigkeitsregler über alles.
by The Lodo Magic Man on Jan 17, 2012 3:21 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
This is why Spring Training 2012 is so interesting to me
What happens there is going to go a long way indetermining some of these roles. The measurable impact it’s going to have on the 2012 Rockies, especially early in the season, will be as significant (if not more significant) as just about any Rockies team in the last 15 years.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 17, 2012 2:20 PM MST up reply actions
It will be fun.
I’m also looking forward to what happens when Apodaca gets his mitts on some of these guys.
I’d like to think that the takeaway from this offseason will be “we’re not going to coddle you guys any more. If you don’t do your job, we’ll move you. And we’ll find 10 hungry guys to fight for your job”
I'll take a shot at this "game"
1) Jhoulys Chacin ROTATION
2) Jason Hammel ROTATION
3) Jorge de la Rosa DL then ROTATION
4) Juan Nicasio ROTATION
5) Drew Pomeranz ROTATION
6) Alex White AAA
7) Tyler Chatwood AAA
8) Kevin Slowey AAA / NOT ON TEAM
9) Josh Outman ROTATION then BULLPEN
10) Guillermo Moscoso-AAA
11) Esmil Rogers-NOT WITH TEAM
12) Chad Bettis-AA
13) Edwar Cabrera-AA
14) Joe Gardner-AAA
15) Christian Friedrich-AAA
16) Rob Scahill-AAA Bullpen
17) Jamie Moyer-AAA Pitching coach with Roster Spot in Bullpen
President of Baseball Operations for the PRMLB Atlanta Braves
I also think Hammel will be traded and Mososco gets the spot
President of Baseball Operations for the PRMLB Atlanta Braves
I think Mososco is flipped for Maicer Izturis
He makes much more sense than Jerome Williams for the Angels rotation
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
I'll agree Hammel gets traded before OD
But I think Outman goes directly to bullpen for a fairly high visibility role, perhaps replacing one of the Matts. Chatwood/WhiteSlowey battle it out for the 5th spot in ST, and my guess is Chatwood pitches best but they want to be careful with his confidence, so send him to Tulsa. Slowey gets the first half starts and aces them. JDLR comes back and replaces Chacin, who has a bad first half before coming back strong, we have our final top 6:
JDLR, Nicasio, Pom, Slowey, Chacin, White
by BostonTransplant on Jan 17, 2012 2:23 PM MST up reply actions
And I've forgotten about Moscoso
Dammit this is hard. Too many guys!
by BostonTransplant on Jan 17, 2012 2:24 PM MST up reply actions
Outman makes so much sense as a bridge to De la Rosa
because his stuff would play out in a bullpen role and I think it’s fairly safe to give him 10-12 starts
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
If I'm not mistaken, Moscoso doesn't have any options left
So he can’t be in AAA.
PRMLB - Tampa Bay Rays
According to Greg, he's one of the guys that gets a bonus option year based on limited time in minor league full season leagues
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by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 17, 2012 2:39 PM MST up reply actions
There's still the matter of the myetrious "modifications to fourth option rules" that appeared on the CBA summary with no further explanation.
Theoretically, we have no rigid proof that ANYONE has fourth options anymore including Hector Gomez and Clay Mortensen who were both in line to have them over the old rules. Once that new CBA is out in the full text, I’ll know more.
As for Moscoso, here’s the deal: Moscoso has played pro ball since 2005, and from 2005 through 2007, Moscoso played short season ball. These seasons do not count as “full pro seasons” in terms of determining if a player has a fourth option or not. Moscoso did see two short stints to full season teams in 2007, but I checked the dates and each one lasted no more than 3 days, and both occurred during the short season team play, meaning he didn’t net extra active days in the middle of extended Spring Training as some players do.
With the seemingly definitive conclusion that Moscoso has only played “full pro seasons” under the 2007-2011 CBA definition, Moscoso SHOULD qualify for a bonus fourth option if that part of the rules was not the part that was modified.
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by Greg Stanwood on Jan 17, 2012 2:44 PM MST up reply actions
That should read ".... definitive conclusion that Moscoso has only played FOUR "full pro seasons"..."
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"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Jan 17, 2012 2:46 PM MST up reply actions
wouldn't have it any other way
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
JFK
next up:
the balk
arenado: it's Rockie for future
ah ok. i had seen your tweet saying he was out of options
didn’t see greg’s comment
PRMLB - Tampa Bay Rays
Yeah, I was going off of Baseball America's records, which might still be accurate
But until we know more…
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 17, 2012 2:52 PM MST up reply actions
I don't expect BA has any more access to those changes than we do at this point, or there would be reports about what those changes are.
At this point I’m assuming BA just did what most people do, checked to see if 3 were used and just assumed that was it.
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"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Jan 17, 2012 3:02 PM MST up reply actions
By the way
After dinking around with some numbers. The current collection of players would project out to be close to 73 or 74 million on opening day payroll. Holy crap! I’ll post a more detailed fan post tonight.
Heh, I first read that as 'After drinking a round with some numbers.'
The off-season sucks.
That is all.
But man, will 4 drink you under the table.
Die-hard Rockies fan since 1993.
Poo-Bah of the San Diego Padres in the Purple Row OOTP League.
@Paul_Franz
My blerg
That's a bit less than Renck's, who assumed Smith would be here
But still, in the ballpark. Wow indeed. Anybody got a REALLY GOOD (and expensive) 2B they want to trade us?
by BostonTransplant on Jan 17, 2012 2:28 PM MST up reply actions
Who knows.
At this point, they could easily fit Oswalt in. Especially if they decide to move Hammel.
Dan Uggla
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 17, 2012 2:36 PM MST up reply actions
Nah.
Still about three years away from hitting Derek Lowe status (and I don’t actually think he’ll drop that far…still got plenty of good years left). 2B hole filled in 2015!!
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
And that's if both Slowey and Blake make the team.
I got the same area, 73.125 million.
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"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Jan 17, 2012 2:36 PM MST up reply actions
Actually
I don’t have Slowey making the team. But I did add 2 million in various other expenses such as bonuses that I can’t account for.
Ah, there's the difference with Renck then
Signing Oswalt and cutting Slowey is an attractive option, if we trade for a 2b some other way.
by BostonTransplant on Jan 17, 2012 2:43 PM MST up reply actions
So did I
I have to wonder if the Rockies will enter the season at this number which gives them the ability to take on more payroll in a mid season trade. If they are able to stay close to a playoff spot, they would be in excellent position to take a high talent/ high salary player on a team who is out of contention with all of the cost controlled young pieces they currently have at their disposal.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 17, 2012 2:44 PM MST up reply actions
Yeah that kind of makes sense
If things work out well, we’ll have done our triage on our SP’s, JDLR will be back, our bullpen will have like 15 members, and we’ll have the $$ to acquire an impact bat, although unless he’s a 2B or we trade Helton I’m not sure where he’d play.
by BostonTransplant on Jan 17, 2012 5:01 PM MST up reply actions
I've cracked the code!
With the savings in the payroll and increased ticket prices, we are going to replenish the weak Giants’ farm system with seven pitching prospects for Tim Lincecum!
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 17, 2012 2:44 PM MST up reply actions
#OccupyAllTheStonedArms
Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
by Thnikkaman on Jan 17, 2012 2:45 PM MST up reply actions 3 recs
O_O
~$10 million to spend?
@DylanZable
by CentralCaliRox on Jan 17, 2012 3:32 PM MST up reply actions
Damn that hurts
I actually think he’s better than Cahill.
by BostonTransplant on Jan 17, 2012 2:31 PM MST up reply actions
Closer than you think
Cahill had a huge home-road split last year, and Oakland’s one of the places where that might actually matter. Going from Oakland to Phoenix is just about the most extreme change in pitching environments you can make.
by BostonTransplant on Jan 17, 2012 2:39 PM MST up reply actions
Cahill has a GB% 11 points higher than Saunders and is 7yrs younger
I’m not sold that Saunders is better than Cahill in any galaxy, and I’m not even that high on Cahill.
Gotta agree to disagree then
I see Saunders as a tough-minded, stuff-challenged lefty bulldog, pretty much exactly what you want in a place like Phoenix. Cahill’s got better stuff, no doubt, but has relied on the high grass and other perks of pitching in the Coliseum. And he’s a blown up elbow waiting to happen.
We’ll see.
by BostonTransplant on Jan 17, 2012 2:59 PM MST up reply actions
Valid question.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Jan 17, 2012 3:25 PM MST up reply actions
Exactly.
Saunders and Cahill would be the same pitchers in any other galaxy in our universe, but in some parallel universe Saunders might be a perennial Cy Young winner.
Or a street urchin with a heart of gold.
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Jan 17, 2012 3:38 PM MST up reply actions
Wait, isn't that what he is in this universe?
Die-hard Rockies fan since 1993.
Poo-Bah of the San Diego Padres in the Purple Row OOTP League.
@Paul_Franz
My blerg
What a sad universe, where no one ever gets on base :(
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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by Muzia on Jan 17, 2012 3:47 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
If there are infinite universes
Then there’s a MLB season where every player on every team hits 1.000, which would presumably make actually finishing a game a bit tricky. So in this universe baseball will have morphed into a cross between Quidditch and Russian Roulette.
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by Junction Rox on Jan 17, 2012 4:22 PM MST up reply actions
.300 wOBA hitter, more like
arenado: it's Rockie for future
lol
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Good for them
Saunders isn’t great but there’s some nice certainty there when you don’t have a clue what Collmenter or Miley will give you in the 4/5 rotation slots
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
OOTH, they're now blocking two really good prospects ...
really the strength of their organization, with a young-ish rotation. We’ll see how that works out.
by BostonTransplant on Jan 17, 2012 2:37 PM MST up reply actions
Eh, giving Skaggs and Bauer a year to develop shouldn't hurt too much
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
exactly
while parker will probably be in oakland’s OD rotation
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Sadly, I think Oswalt's got one or two teams in mind
And just won’t go anywhere else. But yeah, that would be a steal for us.
by BostonTransplant on Jan 17, 2012 3:03 PM MST up reply actions
I'm just not sure who that team is
Boston would be logical, but it seems they are pretty set on not spending. St. Louis could be another, but we heard they wanted him to be a reliever? Who else is there. We may be one of a few teams with the money to spend and the clear need for a stable starter.
The Cards still make the most sense to me
I’ll guess they will convince someone to take one of their less useful starters like Westbrook off their hands (with the Cards eating money) and then signing Oswalt. But yeah, other than that, I got nothing. His other option would be to sign with a bad team in a big park, maybe Seattle, goose his numbers and then go again next year, but if he were willing I think he’d have done that already.
by BostonTransplant on Jan 17, 2012 4:00 PM MST up reply actions
PRMLB Update:
Our OOTP league is looking for a new manager. If you’re interested, send me an email. For more information, click on the link in my signature.
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What does it cost for a copy of OOTP?
If I could afford the game, I’d totally be in on this.
Jason Giambi for player-manager in 2012!
How the world will end in 2012: George of the Roses builds a Machine that Pommels everyone with La Violencia during Whiteouts.
$19.99
it’s definitely worth it
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If I hadn't just spent $100 on tickets for Opening Day
I’d be buying it right now
Jason Giambi for player-manager in 2012!
How the world will end in 2012: George of the Roses builds a Machine that Pommels everyone with La Violencia during Whiteouts.
It's definitely worth it
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 17, 2012 4:35 PM MST up reply actions
I'll go ahead and agree
I’ve bought every version of OOTP since 3, and it has never been a bad investment.
Die-hard Rockies fan since 1993.
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@Paul_Franz
My blerg
I’m an every other version guy.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Jan 17, 2012 4:42 PM MST up reply actions
I just spent $300 on textbooks...
so same situation here
Drop out.
Play OOTP.
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com
Leading the Astros into the Future. Go, Go Astros!
by DumbAndNerdy on Jan 17, 2012 7:33 PM MST up reply actions
holy crap
timmeh files for $21.5m, giants counter with $17m
arenado: it's Rockie for future
take that reasonable arbitration salaries.
Die-hard Rockies fan since 1993.
Poo-Bah of the San Diego Padres in the Purple Row OOTP League.
@Paul_Franz
My blerg
the ridiculous thing is
he’s not a free agent until after 2013
arenado: it's Rockie for future
he's never been worth less than 3.6 of either fWAR or rWAR in a full season
and he’s only 27 right now, turning 28 in june…. if he does well these next two years, we could very well see a contract bigger than sabathia’s being signed at the winter meetings in 2013
arenado: it's Rockie for future
The only reason he wouldn't surpass Sabathia is injury
He’s accomplished far more than CC did
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 17, 2012 4:35 PM MST up reply actions
If the Giants lose out on both Lincecum and Cain for free agency
That franchise is probably set back a few years, though Bumgarner is probably full ace status by then. I expect the Giants to be able to keep Cain though, for some irrational reason. The Pineda trade was good news for the Giants.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
I think they'll be OK
Giants do have a big market and potentially could up their payroll quite a bit. and Zito’s and Rowand’s contracts do end sometime.
by BostonTransplant on Jan 17, 2012 4:49 PM MST up reply actions
I see them having the money to pay Cain if he wants to stay
There’s no way Lincecum stays, and that’s a huge, huge hit to their rotation, especially with no Wheeler coming up. Offense wise, they’re aren’t going to have too much luck convincing big free agent hitters to come, and even if they do, they can’t just buy an entire offense. Even if they have a Pablo-Posey-big free agent (let’s say they get Hamilton) middle of the order, they just have too many holes on offense. They’ll become like 2011 us: no offense beyond CarGo-Tulo, top heavy pitching led by Cain, Bumgarner, and a likely regressing Vogelsong. They won’t be the Athletics but they’ll be stuck with the Dodgers for a while hovering around .500, and you know Sabean is never going to sell off players.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
Wheeler-Beltran
Quite possibly the worst trade in recent ML history, and that’s with Beltran actually out-producing expectations after moving to SF. What were they thinking! Maybe that Lincecum’s gone and they only have a couple years’ window?
by BostonTransplant on Jan 17, 2012 5:04 PM MST up reply actions
Pure gamble, considering that we were all wondering when the DBacks would collapse
Sabean should know that if you got 3 aces, youll eventually have to pay ‘em like 3 aces, and they definitely do not have the Phillies budget. In a way, I don’t blame them for taking the risk because they could’ve gone all the way if they made the playoffs again, but they were definitely thinking short term.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
Whoa, not sure about that.
Wheeler hasn’t done anything yet.
@DylanZable
by CentralCaliRox on Jan 17, 2012 5:46 PM MST up reply actions
yeah,
colon for phillips, lee, and sizemore remains untopped
arenado: it's Rockie for future
The same trade I was going to refer to.
@DylanZable
by CentralCaliRox on Jan 17, 2012 7:17 PM MST up reply actions
True, but from all I've heard
He’s Pomeranz level good. Some prospects are less risky than others, but yeah, he could bust.
by BostonTransplant on Jan 17, 2012 7:34 PM MST up reply actions
JFK's Quote of the Day:
"I didn’t mean to hit the umpire with the dirt, I meant to hit that bastard in the stands." ~George Herman Ruth
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
JFK
Totally OT
Anyone taking the Jeopardy on-line tryout test tonight? I’m giving it a go in a few minutes …
by WanderingRoxFan on Jan 17, 2012 5:59 PM MST reply actions
I'd suck at it
My brain is good at reasoning and understanding things, but I have a pretty poor memory.
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 17, 2012 7:42 PM MST up reply actions
I know a lot of random crap
and am good at trivia. But I would suck at buzzing in. And would lose every question because I can’t answer a question in the form of a question.
It was an interesting experience ...
50 questions across a wide variety of topics. 15 seconds go by very quickly.
by WanderingRoxFan on Jan 17, 2012 9:50 PM MST up reply actions
Whoa
The Tigers might be losing Victor Martinez for 2012 with a torn ACL. If we had held on to CDI for another month…the Tigers have some high-end talent in their farm system…I wonder…
The Tigers have Alex Avila. They don’t need a catcher. Victor Martinez is as much of a catcher these days as Todd Helton is a pitcher.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
hey now
i bet he would have caught vs LHP in the world series, so there’s that at least
arenado: it's Rockie for future
crawford to undergo wrist surgery
will likely miss spring training and opening day… that contract just looks better and better by the day
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Sox Nation now on suicide watch
And with a new GM, I wonder if they panic and do something strange. Can’t imagine us taking advantage of said panic, but still, would be fun to watch.
by BostonTransplant on Jan 17, 2012 7:33 PM MST up reply actions
Mark Teahan
Released today.
I wonder if he could be had for a minor league deal and brought in for organizational depth. I think his defense is shoddy and he’s been moving away from 3B as a result, and his offense has been pretty craptacular the past couple seasons, so he isn’t someone you bring in with any expectations. But if you could nab him for a minor league deal, send him down to the Springs, and if he shows any success than give him a shot at the majors if Blake were to hit the DL might be a decent enough signing.
I'd be interested
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 17, 2012 10:27 PM MST up reply actions
Jack Cust signed a two year deal with the Astros
A two year deal.
A TWO year deal.
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 17, 2012 8:33 PM MST reply actions
At first, I was thinking, “Hey! I didn’t sign Jack Cust.”
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by DumbAndNerdy on Jan 17, 2012 8:37 PM MST up reply actions
#hilariousthings
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Gotta be hard to sign FA's in Houston right now
We think we have it tough …
by BostonTransplant on Jan 17, 2012 9:04 PM MST up reply actions
Who would want to commit to living in Houston for two years?
by WanderingRoxFan on Jan 17, 2012 9:54 PM MST up reply actions
Nice ballpark
but I doubt he can actually live there
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
JFK
I'd just live in Colorado or Florida in the offseason
and shack it with one of the veterans on that team during homestands. Not Brett Myers of course. Um…who else?
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 18, 2012 10:15 AM MST up reply actions
Biggio and Bagwell are still around the team
I’m sure they have an extra bedroom somewhere
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
JFK
I think it's all becoming very clear.
Dan O’Dowd has been reading too much Nassim Taleb.
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