Sunday Rockpile: Don't you just love it when a plan comes together? Rockies acquire Marco Scutaro
And just like that, all the rest of the Rockies moves this off-season make sense. In adding their final veteran piece on Saturday, Marco Scutaro, the Rockies filled the last hole in their lineup and on their infield and crafted a dynamo of an offense that should easily be the best in the NL West division in 2012. They only gave up a depth starting pitcher acquired a year ago but made redundant by depth starting pitching acquired last week. Heck, even Keith Law couldn't find anything bad to say about this for the Rockies, other than the implied assertion that any idiot could have made this same move.
It seemed pretty obvious when Seth Smith was traded last week for Josh Outman and Guillermo Moscoso that another trade would have to be in the works for the Rockies to better allocate talent on hand to areas of need, and after the Monforts wisely signed off on adding Scutaro's salary to the payroll, we see the culmination of the team's winter re-loading efforts. Pitching is a currency in baseball, it always has been, and the Rockies used their savings in this arms money to buy themselves a quality starting 2B. Says the GM:
"We know we are not a perfect club, but we have room to do some more things as the season goes and we will see how this shakes itself out."
Dan O'Dowd would have liked one better veteran starting pitcher in all these moves, I think most Rockies fans would agree with that as well, but when that pitcher wasn't available at the price in either salary or prospects the GM was looking for, he improvised on the original plan and came up with the best possible alternative solution. Load the lineup, build rotational depth in young quantity, while you lack in veteran impact quality, and keep all the prospects on the farm in tact.
What makes me particularly giddy over the past few hours since learning of the trade is looking at the following:
- CF Dexter Fowler .266/.363/.432
- 2B Marco Scutaro .299/.358/.423
- RF Carlos Gonzalez .295/.363/.526
- SS Troy Tulowitzki .302/.372/.544
- LF Michael Cuddyer .284/.346.459
- 1B Todd Helton .302/.385/.466
- C Ramon Hernandez .282/.341.446
- 3B Casey Blake .252/.342/.371
A few fans and pundits had complained about the Rockies moving out higher OBP players like Chris Iannetta and Seth Smith, but note that the above lineup doesn't have a single OBP hole. Every single piece of that projected 2012 starting lineup had an above MLB average on base percentage in 2011 and for their careers. What's more, however, is that the Rockies also added contact that they lacked in 2011 and the past few seasons, with no starter projected to hit below .250, either. So not only will this team be able to get on base, it will be better equipped to clear ducks from the pond and score runs. It's a lineup that will make the Kershaw's, Lincecum's, Cain's, Hudson's and Kennedy's of the division work for everything they get from Colorado, and push weaker starting pitching out of games early. Taxing divisional rival bullpens at Coors Field early will pay huge dividends later in the season.
The rotation, meanwhile, could be sneakily effective in the same way that the Diamondbacks rotation emerged almost from nowhere last season with the maturation of Ian Kennedy and Josh Collmenter. All it would take for the Rockies is one of Juan Nicasio or Drew Pomeranz or Alex White to step up to be a solid #2, and another young pitcher to play the part of the surprisingly tough back of the rotation pitcher that Collmenter played for Arizona. A healthy Josh Outman seems well suited to play the Joe Saunders innings eating role and Jorge De La Rosa's midseason return should provide another boost. Plus, as O'Dowd mentions, the team can still make another move later if the young pitching developments prove not to be in the cards. In the meantime, the offense and fielding are now good enough to keep the division lead close and give the Rockies a chance to find out about the rest.
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If 2005 was "Todd and the Toddlers"...
will the 2012 infield be known as “Troy and the Thirty-somethings”?
by The Fanimal on Jan 22, 2012 6:44 AM MST via iPhone app reply actions
Troy and the Tricenarians
"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"
Luftfeuchtigkeitsregler über alles.
by The Lodo Magic Man on Jan 22, 2012 6:52 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
I like the duality of that last term
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 22, 2012 8:12 AM MST up reply actions
Just can't see one of those pitchers you mentioned stepping up to a #2, #3 maybe
That is the only reason I can’t hop aboard the NL West train yet. Can’t buy into the pitching enough to compete even if JDLR is able to be back by mid may.
I can't blame you or others for taking this stance...
the talent’s there with the pitchers, it’s just a matter of whether the skills and command will be developed enough, and if not, if the offense has enough punch to carry the load anyway. If the Rockies were only facing playoff worthy pitching through the season, it would be a tough call, but there will be enough contests with the bottom feeders that I just don’t see how this lineup if healthy can’t be in the thick of things. Come September or October we better hope the pitching has developed or we won’t get very far if we do make the playoffs, but for just a general “Good enough to compete?” question, I think the answer’s yes.
It's possible
They all have that upside. And the NL west is winnable by every team every year. There are no Yankees or Red Sox who have a stranglehold on the division indefinitely.
I don't think that a #2 or #3 performance really needs to emerge.
We really just need Pomeranz to be like 2011 Nicasio for a full season, and improvements from Chacin, Hammel, Nicasio, and a slight drop from JDLR. The other starter just needs to be league average. This scenario is a West-winning scenario, though it is unlikely.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Jan 22, 2012 9:19 AM MST up reply actions
I can see it...
As for me I would much rather field a team with a solid every-day lineup with a rotation of young pitchers with upside than a pieced together lineup of AAAA guys and a rotation of older “name” starters that are trying to squeeze one more year of productivity out of their rotator cuffs and ulnar nerves. Unless we were going to do what it took to get someone like Gio Gonzalez I am thrilled with what they have done this offseason.
This should be a fun year with talent still coming up in the next couple of years.
It’s a good week to be a Rockies fan.
by WhiskeyDrinkingMan on Jan 22, 2012 10:35 AM MST up reply actions
Yes.
I also like the Renck article about how our starting pitchers need to adjust their mindset to simply outlasting the other teams’ pitchers ala Ritzy and Astacio circa Blake St. Bombers.
With the defense behind them, our guys should be pitching to contact – particularly Mr. Walkapotomous. The D should take some pressure off.
by purplerowtroller on Jan 22, 2012 10:41 AM MST up reply actions
happy about d
He owns a .992 career fielding percentage in 324 games at second base. His .992 mark at second is the second-highest for any active Major League player with at least 300 games played at second base.
So you have Blake, semi-solid at third, Tulo (duh), Scutaro, Todd, Fowler, Cargo, and…Cuddyer.
This is great for a developing pitching team and I would think Tulo would be as excited as Barmes days.
Staring out the window, waiting for spring.
Tip o' the cap
to the Montforts. They stepped up to fill a hole that needed to be filled.
What game will be designated “Venezuela Day”?
2012 has to be a better year. Doesn't it?
I can see it now
people show up with these noisy instruments
“I thought you said it was Vuvuzela Day!”
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by SDcat09 on Jan 22, 2012 11:04 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
BBBBBZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZTTTTTTT
"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"
Luftfeuchtigkeitsregler über alles.
by The Lodo Magic Man on Jan 22, 2012 12:17 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
All of them
Jason Giambi for player-manager in 2012!
How the world will end in 2012: George of the Roses builds a Machine that Pommels everyone with La Violencia during Whiteouts.
My Sunday School teacher today was from Venezuela.
I momentarily considered telling him that he should root for the Rockies.
you should have
He probably knows of half the players on the team
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
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No idea if he's a baseball fan, and judging from his accent, he's been in the US a long time.
So who knows whether he follows that kind of thing.
The only thing I wish we had was a true leadoff hitter.
Fowler should become that in time, but as of right know he nothing more then a good #2 hitter.
why do you say that?
he should improve his stealing and strikeouts (which he did in the 2nd half), but he had a career high OBP last year. I’m comfortable with him leading off
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 22, 2012 8:06 AM MST via Android app up reply actions
Heh, I checked the comments on Neyer's piece on the trade
several commenters are confused what the rockies are doing, paying a shortstop $6mil to be Tulo’s backup instead of applying it to a position of need. /facepalm
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 22, 2012 8:07 AM MST via Android app up reply actions
The only thing that would have made this plan work was using payroll space and pitching to get a legit 2B/3B
frankly, I wrote that off as impossible. Wren was playing hardball over Prado. The Mets weren’t dealing Wright. After Jed Lowrie was dealt, it was universally presumed Scutaro would stay in Boston. Without options, I didn’t see a resolution. This most certainly counts.
I suppose we should thank the Yankees for putting pressure on Boston by acquiring Pineda. and thank the Marlins for coming out of nowhere to buyout Heath Bell’s loyalty, allowing the Padres The space to take Street’s salary, and for Colorado to take Scutaro’s.
There were a lot of moving pieces in this plan, and I was worried we would get Bigbie’d. There is some luck involved in this working out I think, but clearly, we ought to be happy with this team as constructed. The lineup is significantly improved, the rotation is essentially unchanged, and the pen is slightly weakened, if not comparable.
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 22, 2012 8:04 AM MST via Android app reply actions
I'm happy DOD has finally understood his nutritionist and balanced his diet.
This is what I’ve been praying (not Tebowing) for. A balanced batting order with both contact and a reasonable thump that’s not a bunch of one trick ponies. It remains to be seen if this unit will gel; however this seems a lot more like the right track.
Barring injury and total lack of developement among all the young arms and prospects; this looks and feels more like what the Twins were supposed to be before they lost their track. I say this not because we added Cuddyer; but we caused a team transformation to acquieing players like Cuddyer’s become.
I also think you guys are discount the presence of Moyer too much. If Giambi is our hitting sage; Moyer is or pitching sage. If Dac needs a counterpoint; it’s changing speeds and making use of the whole zone. Lacheman said it when he left the org, and Moyer presence an Mosocso’s Prove to me the Monforts want to see a different path than what we’ve been seeing the last seven or so years. They’ve tasted the last recicpe and decided they didn’t like it.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Love the move
and best of all, it may mean the end of the Herrera’s time with the Rox since Scutero can backup SS. I like Herrera as a utility player but we know Tracy can’t help himself and plays him more than he should.
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I'd actually keep Herrera over the other options
Mostly because I want a good defensive replacement on the bench. Nelson and EY are not that.
If all he is a defensive replacement
then I’m all for it but I would prefer to limit the options available to Tracy. His management of the SP’s is also worrisome since I can see a lot of tinkering occurring after bad starts. I hope we get out to a quick start to not worry about it too much.
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by Cargo'es Yard on Jan 22, 2012 8:15 AM MST up reply actions
If tinkering is your concern
Then EY is the player should hope is gone. Having him in the outfield is a continued disaster. And as for the starting rotation, Tracy tends to leave that alone.
Without a doubt
Watching him in the OF was worst than watching Wiggy out there.
As for the SP’s, I see very little variance in the pitchers after Chacin and Poms (and potentially White) that I can see him going with the “hot hand”. Tracy wears the badge but we know that doesn’t make him right.
PRMLB Owner of the STL Red Birds
by Cargo'es Yard on Jan 22, 2012 8:32 AM MST up reply actions
Are you kidding?
What was more fun than watching Tiny E misjudging line drives, breaking left at first, spinning, going right about 100 mph and then hopelessly diving for the ball and falling 10 feet short?
And no one gets to his feet and runs over to the ball that is still barely rolling on the warning track faster than EY2…
by WhiskeyDrinkingMan on Jan 22, 2012 11:14 AM MST up reply actions
me too
injury time will make him needed. i’m not hoping for injuries, but…
by holidayelsie on Jan 22, 2012 10:57 AM MST up reply actions
did o'dowd just effectively kill platooning?
i know todd is going to get rest, but otherwise, that above lineup should be everyday.
hot damn.
Helton/Blake/Hernandez will all sit a significant amount of time
Due to age. The rest should be everyday guys.
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by CentralCaliRox on Jan 22, 2012 8:25 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
I wouldn't mind another...
veteran utility guy to cover for Scutaro and Blake, considering their ages, and in case they get hurt. Keppinger, perhaps. I just don’t want a big drop off at 2B or 3rd when we rest players or when injuries happen.
by The Fanimal on Jan 22, 2012 8:34 AM MST via iPhone app up reply actions
Stopgaps for our stopgaps? Keep in mind the overall goal if this plan was to create a bridge for Arenado and Rutledge. Someone like Keppinger is a luxury item for a contending team, and one that would interfere with the youth.
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by Muzia on Jan 22, 2012 8:43 AM MST via Android app up reply actions
Maybe...
I just thought it might be a good idea to avoid having a bench of sub-replacement level infielders, just in case we contend and/or someone gets hurt.
by The Fanimal on Jan 22, 2012 8:49 AM MST via iPhone app up reply actions
This is still a reloading year, even with the Scutaro trade. There has to be at bats for the kids like Pacheco just to see if they are part of the future plan.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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by Muzia on Jan 22, 2012 8:52 AM MST via Android app up reply actions
So JT
Will be playing Pacheco/Nelson, Giambi and Rosario every Sunday?
by dsmba on Jan 22, 2012 8:48 AM MST via iPhone app up reply actions
Nelson has very little if any chance of making this roster.
Herrera maybe, but pacheco puts Nelson out in the cold. And i want EY off this team as to not tempt JT into playin him in left.
by Roxfan24 on Jan 22, 2012 9:40 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Nelson is a much better defender at every IF position
Don’t see a reason to have Pacheco on the team.
by dsmba on Jan 22, 2012 10:18 AM MST via iPhone app up reply actions
pacheco is probably a better hitter than nelson
over a full season, and is also the 3rd string catcher
Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort
Not to be a jerk but
Who the hell needs a 3rd string catcher taking up a 25 man spot.
Better hitter? No idea, not sure either is any good and worth keeping around because the are “hitter”
by dsmba on Jan 22, 2012 12:00 PM MST via iPhone app up reply actions
Jim Tracy needs a 3rd string catcher
because otherwise he will literally never use the backup as a pinch hitter.
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by EmersonCR on Jan 22, 2012 1:28 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
And even back ups need to face live pitching occasionally.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
One potential value of having a 3rd catcher on the roster in this case is that it allows us to use Rosario/Hernandez as the main right handed pinch hitter on a bench weak from the right.
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by Greg Stanwood on Jan 22, 2012 3:10 PM MST up reply actions
As the last guy on the Chris Nelson bandwagon
I still have hope that he will put it together and eventually take the 2B job
by WhiskeyDrinkingMan on Jan 22, 2012 11:17 AM MST up reply actions
whoa, i don't think you're the last guy at all
it’s just not looking good for him at this point
Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort
Might be time to start the Hector Gomez for 2B Bandwagon
#bandwagonsoflostcauses
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he needs to go on the dexter fowler without plan
Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
by Thnikkaman on Jan 22, 2012 4:43 PM MST via Android app up reply actions
The problem here
is Tracy will rest all of them on the same day and put out the AAAA we all know an love on all Sundays
Colorado Offense: Making bad pitchers look like CY Young Winners.
by Colsportsfan on Jan 22, 2012 11:05 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
no
if we seriously punt sundays for another freaking year, i will find you
Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort
I have experience in that regard...
After I hunt down Tracy!
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Underated aspect of this deal
Tracy’s magic 8-ball has been limited in options. All he has to do is figure out how much rest to give Todd, Giambi, Blake, etc…
The lineup is special enough that even Tracy won’t be able to tweak it.
by purplerowtroller on Jan 22, 2012 11:15 AM MST up reply actions
Murphy is my Patrone Saint.
Never say never
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Perhaps
But I feel like we’ve taken a HUGE step away from having Alfonzo batting cleanup.
#So long 2011.
by purplerowtroller on Jan 22, 2012 11:21 AM MST up reply actions
We still havs Nieves.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
I think in some way o'Dowd is building this team to take those options away from Tracy.
Which is why the EY/Herrera/Nelson crew will have a tough time making this team
I think one of them will still be around.
The Cubs fan I most respect among my friends still thinks DJ is a work in progress.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
i'd probably rather keep him over the rest of that crowd
Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort
If DJ isn't starting at second base
It’s worth more to us to have him keep starting then make him a part of the bench.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
yeah i like the scenario you've got just below
nelson on the bench, DJ in the springs
Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort
I think so too
but it won’t be two or three at a time like last year (man that was terrible)
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
JFK
We were discussing this last night
EY2’s most likely a goner, Herrera probably doesn’t make the team but he has an option, DJ starts in AAA, and Nelson makes the bench.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
ey tweeted to alanna that he wasn't invited to film any commercials this year
could definitely hint at that…
Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort
Have you seen his #refuse2beignored tweets?
I really wish he would make the team, but he’ll get another chance somewhere next year. I think the Mariners or Mets pick him up, and I like the thought of a EY2 for Jaso trade
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
yeah
kid’s got heart, and before the scutaro trade i would have preferred him at 2B, but now i thinkhe’s just trade bait
Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort
i dunno
if i prefer niese to hammel….
Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort
I'm not the biggest fan of Niese
but I think he would profile here a lot better and is team controlled longer. I’d love to swindle the Mets on this one.
It seems like an odd way to make that conclusion
but I actually agree with you. Considering his personality and his ties to the club, not being in any commercials is a pretty big indicator that he will not be around much longer.
I'm not sure Tracy cares enough for Nelson
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
It's Nelson or EY2 then for that last spot
Herrera won’t be responsible for the departure of both when he has an option and there’s no way DOD lets DJ be a bench piece when he thinks he can start.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
The option is what let's him remain while DJ puts it togeather.
Two of the three are gone after ST IMO. The Option Means that he can be sent down when they want to see what DJ’s got. In any case he’ll be supplanted by Rutledge and field next year.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Herrera has indeed hung on to his final option year, but I'm not sure they'll bother.
The AAA infield is already pretty fully. I suppose they could release Brendan Harris, but Herrera may actually have trade value at the end of March, somehow. At least better than Harris.
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by Greg Stanwood on Jan 22, 2012 3:14 PM MST up reply actions
i will help
I had Sundays off last year and had an awful 17 in a row.
Staring out the window, waiting for spring.
#blameAberle
"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"
Luftfeuchtigkeitsregler über alles.
by The Lodo Magic Man on Jan 22, 2012 12:18 PM MST via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
We could do a whole lot worse than
Dex
Scutaro
Cargo
Tulo
Cuddyer
Giambi
Rosario
Pacheco
Pitcher
on Sundays…
Jason Giambi for player-manager in 2012!
How the world will end in 2012: George of the Roses builds a Machine that Pommels everyone with La Violencia during Whiteouts.
how about
Dex
Herrera
Cargo
Tulo
Giambi
Pacheco
Rosario
Blackmon
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 22, 2012 1:30 PM MST via Android app up reply actions
Why the bloody hell would we let Jonathan Herrera be on this team?
Jason Giambi for player-manager in 2012!
How the world will end in 2012: George of the Roses builds a Machine that Pommels everyone with La Violencia during Whiteouts.
bc he will hit .468 in ST
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 22, 2012 1:34 PM MST via Android app up reply actions 1 recs
so blake for the first half if the season
and arenado for the second
Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
by Thnikkaman on Jan 22, 2012 4:41 PM MST via Android app up reply actions
I like this plan.
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Only if Blake
is injured or performing well below average or Arenado is doing everything humanly possible to show he’s 100% ready
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"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
JFK
I love it when RoxGirl turns out to be right.
Someday I’ll see it during the season, too.
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by glaucophane on Jan 22, 2012 8:55 AM MST via iPhone app reply actions
I like the Scutaro addition a lot, especially for a spare part like Morty
But my God, you would think we just shipped Alan Johnson to the Yanks for Robinson Cano. If the Giants had grabbed Scutaro to play SS, I’m sure there would be much chuckling here about the high salary and the likelihood of regression. The Rockies get him, and it’s time to free up vacation days for October baseball.
Scutaro is a very solid, slam-dunk move that addressed a big need. But barring another acquisition, the stars will still need to align for the starting pitching corps in order to push the Rockies into contention. That was the case pre-Scutaro, and it still is.
Honestly, I think you're going more over the top than anyone else with this
I have yet to see any comment that suggests the team is a lock to win the division, just that it helps place them back in the contention conversation. That’s a big difference. Granted, if he were a Giant, we here would down play it a bit (that’s normal), but I think we have enough perspective to note he’d be a big upgrade from Crawford. Any comment I’ve seen about the rotation is just merely hopeful.
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 22, 2012 9:22 AM MST up reply actions
Northsider's right in a sense
I’m no RIRF but I remember discussion on this here website about how Scutaro was an okay player but not one to get excited about and who probably would be poor value. This was basically the consensus. It was, though, at least a year ago.
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I guess I don't recall that
Though there is certainly a phenomenon of generally hating on every possible acquisition early in the offseason before realizing the top tier indeed will not come here, and the best of the next crop is actually a good thing.
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by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 22, 2012 9:48 AM MST up reply actions
I'm not hating on the Scutaro acquisition
On the contrary, I like everything about it. I’m not stupid – I would much rather have a team with weak starting pitching and Marco Scutaro at 2B, than a team with weak starting pitching and Nelson/EY/Herrera at 2B. But I’m not going to jump up and down and say that the latter squad will never sniff .500, but the former is going to be right in the thick of the pennant race.
I also don’t hate the starting pitching talent the Rockies have been collecting, either from the Ubaldo trade or the deals that followed. I just don’t think it’s realistic to think that it will blossom to contention-level in 2012. In the meantime, however, it’s still important to try to improve the team in other areas. You drew nearly 3 million fans last year, and you don’t want to piss that away with a team that wins 68 games.
by Northsider1964 on Jan 22, 2012 10:29 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Again we are thinking along similar paths.
I’m not expecting miracles and I expect momentary massive incompetence from all the youngsters from time to time during the process. That said IF the can find a way to not make a total hash of it. I think there is the possibility they can hang close and Dog somebody.
I also find that in spite of all the convulutions; DOD finaly started behaving like a real GM in stead of the Charicture he’s been to me scince 2007.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
A good offense with marginal pitching can get you into the playoffs, especially with an added WC in the mix. Won’t get you far into the playoffs but it could potentially get you there.
Is the Rockies offense now good enough? In the NL West, I’d say possibly.
Top to bottom, it’s probably the most complete lineup in the division.
The one thing that scares me? We’re probably the oldest in the division as well.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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but it's basically us and the padres with legitimate position player prospects
that helps to balance it
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I understand that...
It’s the price you pay to have quality one year place holders. If Arenado and Rutledge don’t pan at the MLB level; this can be come an old team in a hurry.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
I'm not complaining
in fact, I rather like it. But it’s definitely a bit shocking to be the team depending on veterans for a change.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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I didn't advocate for any of these guys acquired specificly.
On the whole this could have been a lot worse.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Good thing about this
is that old this oldsters are on short term deals. They get old in a hurry, we can move on from them in a hurry.
It's about time our lineup is old.
DOD is demonstrating a desire to win while Tulo and Cargo are in their primes. If Scutaro or Blake doesn’t work out this year, we can find different versions of them next year (or – even better – Arenado should be ready).
Today, we get a glimpse of what it must feel like to be the Yanks/Sox every day.
by purplerowtroller on Jan 22, 2012 11:00 AM MST up reply actions
I wouldn't go that far but maybe the Cards?
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
"glimpse"
so yes, maybe the cards.
by purplerowtroller on Jan 22, 2012 11:04 AM MST up reply actions
If Rutledge and Arenado don't pan out
We’ve got bigger problems.
by BostonTransplant on Jan 22, 2012 11:39 AM MST up reply actions
Less so with Rutledge.
We’ve got another wave of potential middle infield talent right behind him.
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by Greg Stanwood on Jan 22, 2012 3:16 PM MST up reply actions
Since when will marginal pitching get you to the playoffs?
The Rockies needed NL-average pitching to get there in 2007 and 2009. And when you play half your games at Coors, I don’t think that’s marginal – it’s a significant accomplishment.
If the open tryout camp we’ve assembled this offseason can post NL-average numbers, then I think the Rockies can contend. But I just don’t think that’s realistic without more experience and a full season from DeLaRosa.
by Northsider1964 on Jan 22, 2012 11:12 AM MST up reply actions
You replying to me or ATF?
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
But do you consider marginal to be average?
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
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by Junction Rox on Jan 22, 2012 7:57 PM MST up reply actions
We're better than average
Top 5 bullpen, and when JDLR comes back a pretty darn solid top 4 at least. You’re underestimating what we do have.
by BostonTransplant on Jan 22, 2012 11:40 AM MST up reply actions
Not knocking our bullpen
But it is so hard to know what to expect from a bullpen from one year to the next. I appreciate Betancourt and what he did last year but I have some serious reservations about whether he can hold onto the closer role for an entire season now that he is being counted on in what doesn’t amount to garbage time. In the past, he has not performed so well in that kind of spot. I’m willing to cross my fingers on him and hope that experience has made him a better pitcher but I don’t take that as a given personally.
And not saying the bullpen will not be good, I think can be a strength. But I was more referring to the starting rotation who I think is a huge crapshoot. Maybe I am under-estimating our rotation but I think that while we have the potential for being decent but I think a lot of our pitching candidates have to prove their readiness, I don’t think its something I am can go in expecting.
He's just holding the coat for Brothers.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
or bettis
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Talent-wise, perhaps
But in the playoff years, the pitching staff was actually NL-average (or slightly better) in the traditional, non-park-adjusted stats like ERA, WHIP and BA Against. In the other recent seasons, those numbers sink into the #13 or #14 range.
Even the bullpen, which I often defend as being very good, has to pitch its collective butt off to pull off NL-average numbers.
by Northsider1964 on Jan 22, 2012 11:50 AM MST up reply actions
who said slam dunk?
we’re allowed to be stoked over any improvement at 2B.
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 22, 2012 9:23 AM MST via Android app up reply actions
I made a similar type of comment yesterday.
But I get the excitement over this deal. I think people are more responding to the idea that we addressed the black hole in our lineup moreso than we acquired Marco Scutaro, who is a fine player but is still only Marco Scutaro and never to be confused with, say, Robinson Cano.
Compared to the past decade of 2B around here, Scutaro is Robinson Cano.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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Scutaro's 3-year average fWAR would rank 4th among 2B in franchise history for a season
behind Carroll (06), Matsui (07), Young (96). His career high (2009) would be the best for a Rox 2B ever.
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 22, 2012 10:58 AM MST up reply actions
I think in context to the rest of the offseason moves
it is a big deal considering our woes at 2b.
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The rotation, meanwhile, could be sneakily effective in the same way that the Diamondbacks rotation emerged almost from nowhere last season with the maturation of Ian Kennedy and Josh Collmenter.
I just wrote a FanPost breaking down how this happens. It’s here: http://www.purplerow.com/2012/1/22/2724944/better-things-starting-pitching-in-2012
It’s long, but I think it’s the best one I’ve written.
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JFK
I woke up this morning
And randomly had a much better feeling about Alex White than I have ever had before. Before I was a doubter but now I am a fan.
I woke up this morning
And randomly had a wooden bat in my bed; I think the Scutaro trade put it there!
So excited for spring training! Rox Girl, thanks for the perfect article to start my day.
by purplerowtroller on Jan 22, 2012 10:03 AM MST up reply actions
he’s gotten a pretty bad rap for sucking in his first major league season in the worst ballpark to pitch in. Him, Pomeranz, Arenado, and healthy Nicasio/JDLR are leaving us pretty good for 2013, if not 2012…
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
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I was at his first start here in Denver
And it was uninspiring to say the least. I did not think we had anything in him to be honest.
Now, I simply call it growing pains and him just getting acclimated.
Sinker ballers can be streaky
And when they’re not feeling well (as he was last year) they just don’t work at all. I agree — he’ll be a rock in our rotation by end of year, most likely, unless we get very lucky with some other guys and there are no spots for him.
by BostonTransplant on Jan 22, 2012 11:46 AM MST up reply actions
I agree. He's going to be a solid ML starter.
Maybe this year.
In case you were wondering how they feel about this move over in Boston...
Would Esmil Rogers have been too much to ask for?
can be found on Over The Monster.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
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lol
mortensen was semi-effective for a while, but i think he’ll get wrecked pitching in the AL east
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I would've given up Esmil for Scoot
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
gladly
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I would have given them Esmil AND Morty..
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
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by Junction Rox on Jan 22, 2012 7:58 PM MST up reply actions
I think
both could have been fair, although we wouldn’t have taken the whole contract at that point either
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"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
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JFK
Over the Monster comment
At the end of this offseason
I’m hoping there’s some sort of Jacob’s Ladder kind of "Oh, shit…so THAT’S what was going on!!!!!" kind of revelation.
At which point I’ll stand and clap.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
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by Bloggy on Jan 21, 2012 7:30 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
poetic justice much?
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Basically, they are referring to the kind of moment we here at PR had upon hearing of this trade.
by Adam2011 on Jan 22, 2012 11:02 AM MST up reply actions 2 recs
and it makes me happy
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feels great
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
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Thats the one I quoted yesterday
and said “this is where we are at now. Time to clap”
Science! It means whatever you want it to!
by realmenwearpurple on Jan 22, 2012 1:22 PM MST up reply actions
So much better than Smith + (wheeler/blackmon) for Prado
Instead of trading Smith + young OF for Prado, we get Smith + Mortenson for Scutaro and two pitchers who have good shot at making rotation/bullpen. And we keep both blackmon and wheeler.
According to Bill James projections:
Scutaro: .271 .341 .378 (9 Hr)
Prado: .289 .339 .423 (11 Hr)
When you consider how much less we had to give up to get Scutaro, Scutaro’s defense, and the two pitchers we got back from the A’s, this deal makes our team MUCH better than the Prado deal would have (and I REALLY wanted Prado!).
Kudos DanO!
by purplerowtroller on Jan 22, 2012 11:11 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
Sox think Mortenson profiles as a SP, and I wish him luck.
Here, he was not going to sniff the starting rotation. We really didn’t give up much.
Thanks to Monforts also for opening their checkbooks. Monforts have pleasantly surprised me in recent years.
by purplerowtroller on Jan 22, 2012 11:19 AM MST up reply actions
If he thought keeping it in the park was tough here... Wait till he really experiences Fenway.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
If he ends up in the Sox rotation.....
Our pitching concerns pale next to theirs. Heck, even him ending up as the long man in their pen would send up red flags about their pitching talent.
Considering what they are signing...
Yeah….
Couldn’t happen to a nicer town.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
They have fanposts discussing who you would rather have as the #5 starter…
Carlos Silva, Aaron Cook, or Vicente Padilla.
Yeesh.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
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Poor Cookie; stashed between those two!
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Up side for Cookie is he learns how to bitch in Spanish
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
by Oldfoagie on Jan 22, 2012 11:40 AM MST up reply actions 2 recs
lol
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Alex White doesn't so bad now, does he
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
sound**
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
Never thought he did
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Nothing wrong with our back end options
It’s the front end options that remain the issue and the shortage of inning eaters.
That's what the AAA shuttle is for.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
yep
Whats nice this year is they have several capable starters who can be stuffed in the minors and called up when needed. I much rather have Chatwood pick up 6 starts mid July due to injury than Reynolds or Mortensen.
Chatwood is the one guy in all of this I really question.
Somehow I can’t gey my head around on him.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
right there with you
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Look I was Iannetta's most vocal hater.
I’m still not convinced this was the chip we should have gotten for him.
Dipoto needed to run Mathes out of town tarred and feathered and doused in gasoline while holding a Zippo. Is this really the best we could do?
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
He was their #2 prospect last year
and wasn’t a disaster in the majors as a 21 year old. I’m not quite sure why people consider him as such a poor asset? Considering we more or less replaced Iannetta’s production with an equal cost free agent, it made sense.
i don't think anyone considers him a "poor asset"
its just that some people seem to think he’ll amount to a lot more than others do
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I'm not knocking Chatwood so much as I think we could/should have gotten more/different.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
yeah, i agree
Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort
Look at what the Red Sox got for one year of
An above average SS with no FA available…we should probably be happy with what we got for one year of Iannetta
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
by TomCat009 on Jan 22, 2012 1:42 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Chatwood is only a year older than Tyler Matzek..
and he has a year of MLB experience. If you believe Matzek has a future with the Rockies, than Chatwood has to be considered as well.
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The upper levels including the majors
have not been kind to him. But he is still young enough and has the raw tools to be a very good starter. I think he has a chance to come out of no-where and become a rotation staple in 2013 and beyond.
I hope so.
I ain’t rootin’ ag’in him.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Go back and look at curt schilling
Or john smoltz or almost any pitcher who does one hundred innings as a 21yo
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
by TomCat009 on Jan 22, 2012 1:39 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
dwight gooden was 21 in 1985
and threw 276 innings of 1.53 ERA ball.
so there.
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by papality on Jan 22, 2012 2:33 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
actuall doc was only 20 in the 1985 season, as his birthday is in november
so as a 21 year old in 1986, he threw 250 innings of 2.84 ERA/3.06 ball.
so there.
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The exception that proves the rule...
Jason Giambi for player-manager in 2012!
How the world will end in 2012: George of the Roses builds a Machine that Pommels everyone with La Violencia during Whiteouts.
Well Bob Feller and his 62 innings of 155 ERA+
as a 17 year old think your old man Gooden was meh
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
psh anyone can pitch in relief
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he had more starts(8) than relief appearances(6)
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
shh
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How many ex-Rockies pitchers do the Red Sox have?
Cook, Mortensen, Morales…?
"Are they called the Rockies because they rock?" - 7 y.o.
Brad Emaus and Marco Duarte in the minors.
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by Greg Stanwood on Jan 22, 2012 3:21 PM MST up reply actions
Did Mike McKenry and Balcom Miller leave?
President of Baseball Operations for the PRMLB Atlanta Braves
Balcom-Miller is still there.
McKenry is a Pirate.
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by Greg Stanwood on Jan 22, 2012 3:42 PM MST up reply actions
correct me if I'm wrong
but it seems most of the ex-Rox are with either Boston, Cleveland or Pittsburgh
Or Kansas City - Francis/Paulino..
Mariners – Olivo/Bard/Figgins/Cust/JameyWright
Texas – Torrealba/Quintanilla/Oliver/Strop
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Boston and Colorado have definitely had a very strong trade relationship these past few years.
Pittsburgh has wound up with many former Rockies lately via free agency, some via trade from other teams. Cleveland has recently acquired Rockies via both. I would add the Astros to this list too, though that might have been 2-3 years ago more than now.
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"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
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by Greg Stanwood on Jan 22, 2012 5:38 PM MST up reply actions
I probably just have a short memory
It is interesting after the bad feelings between the Rockies and Red Sox, that they have become so connected. Of course there’s a whole new regime there.
We were connected with the old regime too. The Rockies have made five trades with the Red Sox over the past two years.
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"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
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by Greg Stanwood on Jan 22, 2012 5:59 PM MST up reply actions
Bad feelings
I think would be what the fans have. I don’t think the FO have those with the Red Sox right now
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"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
JFK
Like the Padres in the Street-for-Schmidt trade
We didn’t give up anything. Escalona had more or less displaced Morty as the long man, and you’re right – he wasn’t going to get much of a look as a starter. The other thing to note is that while Mortenson had some serviceable outings in the majors, he had an absolutely miserable time pitching in the Springs. Stashing him down there this season wasn’t going to provide him with much of a career boost.
If Morty finds some success in Boston, good for him. But this was a no-brainer for the Rockies, as long as they feel Scutaro is worth the $.
by Northsider1964 on Jan 22, 2012 11:26 AM MST up reply actions
Could just be spin
Could be projections for the future. They might see him as a SP but that doesn’t mean the throw him into their rotation right away. That said, he is getting to the age when its becoming about the now rather than the future.
From 2009-2011
Prado: Avg .291 OBS .336 SLG .435 OPS .771 (39 Hr)
Scutaro: Avg. .284 OBS .356 SLG .404 OPS .761 (30 Hr)
Scutaro has also been in hitting against AL pitching since 2004. Gaps in coors will undoubtedly play to his strengths.
Career 2b fielding %: Prado: .982; Scutaro .992
+Moscoso+Outman+Wheeler/Blackmon…. better than what we were hoping for.
by purplerowtroller on Jan 22, 2012 11:29 AM MST up reply actions
NL pitching is better than AL pitching
Just sayin’
by BostonTransplant on Jan 22, 2012 11:50 AM MST up reply actions
AL east pitching > AL as a whole
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Sure, I'll go there
Entirely because of the Rays, mind you.
by BostonTransplant on Jan 22, 2012 11:52 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
yankee bullpens have been good as well
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Yanks are sitting pretty Phat now too.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
AL lineups are better than NL lineups
one reason pitching stats are inflated (plus DH).
by purplerowtroller on Jan 22, 2012 11:53 AM MST up reply actions
Oh well, that goes without saying
I like that the AL has evolved into a hitting heavy league, while the NL is pitching heavy. Gives me options depending on my mood …
by BostonTransplant on Jan 22, 2012 12:20 PM MST up reply actions
i'd love morty to crack their rotation
he’ll help pad the stats of the yankees, rays, jays, and Os, while simultaneously taxing their bullpen
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Like I said Couldn't happen to a nicer town.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
We could have traded him to Philly
Though they got Wiggington, so perhaps we are spreading the love.
by Adam2011 on Jan 22, 2012 11:40 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Skippy peanut butter theory...
I LIKE it!
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
I think you are right
That Scutaro, Outman, and Moscoso for Smith and Mortenson is the better deal than Smith and Wheeler/Blackmon for just Prado.
That said, sometimes I do find myself favoring upside type deals. And to that I that end I think Prado offers the greatest upside of all the players mentioned and I would have favored making a less favorable type deal to have acquired him. Not sure I would have done Smith and Wheeler for Prado over the current deals but I definitely would have done Smith and Blackmon and another lesser type piece. Maybe this wasn’t an option and the Rockies would have had to pay more, making this a moot point, and then I am back to saying not worth it.
Anyways, I do like these deals and I am not knocking them by any means. And I do think you are right that these deals did offer the best value between cost and return.
I've been leading the charge that DOD needs to take that last step and trade significant farm pieces to improve the MLB roster
…but when you get gifts like Scutaro, I guess that’s not necessary.
Fill the holes on the MLB roster while keeping the entire farm intact? A smashing success. Save your bullets for later.
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I understand you gotta give something to get something
But dealing Wheeler killed the entire reason for dealing Smith in the first place. I personally liked the Smith + pitcher idea the Braves had, but they were probably asking for an Alex White or a Juan Nicasio.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
Good point.
This deal still doesn’t address our 2b for 2013 and beyond… but it shows a win now, adjust later mentality.
Next year, we may have to go after another 2b. It looks like we’ll have the pieces to do it (i.e. trade some more arms now that we have so much depth). I think we’ll actually be better in 2013/2014 than 2012. Our pitching staff has upside and Arenado/wheeler will be exciting as well.
by purplerowtroller on Jan 22, 2012 11:34 AM MST up reply actions
We have a couple
solid 2B prospects coming up in the next year to year and a half. This is excellent for this year.
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I think O'D believes the real upside at 2B and 3B comes from within...
(Rutledge & Arenado) so he picked up good veterans to fill the gap until they’re ready. That’s how contending teams think, and I’m totally down with it.
Organization had great plan during winter meetings, getting arms and financial flexibility.
I don’t think they’re done yet.
Here’s to betting they go after a #2 or #3 starter with all the trade chips they have left.
by purplerowtroller on Jan 22, 2012 11:43 AM MST up reply actions
we could still sign prince fielder!
Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort
The second base battle is going be interesting post Scoot
Between DJ, Field, and Rutledge.
I like the fact that we between that Blake + second half Arenado is like a 2-3 win upgrade over 2011 Stewart/Wiggy, and that Scutaro is like a 2 win upgrade over 2011 Ellis + the crap we had at second last year.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
Something tells me Field won't be in that equation
Seems like a nice kid, though.
by BostonTransplant on Jan 22, 2012 12:21 PM MST up reply actions
Don't tell Marris 61 that
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
I just think he deserves a shot at some point
if he continues to do well in the minors. Herrera and Nelson were both given chances to stick last year, and couldn’t hit enough to claim a job. EY2’s been around forever & still can’t play defense. Give Field a reasonable chance if he has a good year at AAA this year, where he’s almost certainly headed.
2012 has to be a better year. Doesn't it?
I wouldn't bring Field up again until September, especially since we have Scutaro to play SS just in case
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
OH I Agree with you. It's going to be him mostly at short while DJ's at 2b
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Depending on how he does at AAA
I think he might be the first call-up if a middle infielder gets injured
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
JFK
If he can close the hitting gap between him and DJ
It’s a lot closer than you think. Field’s a true plus with the glove, DJ’s still a question mark with the glove.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
Rutledge is a wild card
I really don’t know much about him but if he is ready to be an everyday starting 2B by 2013 that would be fantastic and would indeed put a dent in the difference in value between Scutaro and Prado.
That said, I still believe I’d have preferred taken the known quantity in Prado, especially given his overall versatility, and then let things play out with Rutledge.
But I certainly understand this approach and I am in support.
Don't get the love for Prado
Seems like a pretty ‘meh’ player to me, except for one great year in 2010. But thank goodness that debate is over cuz I’m very happy where it all turned out. Braves can keep their precious super-utility dude.
by BostonTransplant on Jan 22, 2012 12:24 PM MST up reply actions
I said before the off season started that I didn't think they'd move Prado.
I think all we did was set heir price to keep him.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
I love this team.
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by Yokel on Jan 22, 2012 11:58 AM MST reply actions 2 recs
I love this team too.
I feel so special today. Someone please tell Mr. Tracy!
by purplerowtroller on Jan 22, 2012 12:10 PM MST up reply actions
Nice move
coming from a Sox fan you guys will love scooter. Great fielder and servicable hitter. My answer to the poll question was no. I think if you trade away White and any other top prospect besides Arenado for a Matt Garza or Jair Jurjens then you have yourself a team who could seriously compete in not only the west but all of baseball. You guys are close…. very close.
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i don't think the cubs move garza
floyd is the one we should be targeting now, IMO
Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort
yea Floyd is a nice pitcher
but i don’t think he is that key piece. The Rox need an arm to anchor the rotation. Garza or Jurjens could do that. IMO Floyd is a decent 2 pitcher and a great 3rd pitcher on a contending team. Chacin has the stuff to be the Garza or Jurjens that I speak of but he has yet to show it. thats just my opinion. Honesty the Rox are better off than the Sox are right now.
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by NastyNessy71 on Jan 22, 2012 12:41 PM MST up reply actions
Garza and Jurjens would make this offseason a tremendous success...
So many players we could give up to acquire them:
E.g., White, Matzek, Ey2, chatwood, colvin, rogers, outman, etc…
I think there is a decent chance Rox try to pull a move like this. We have too many pieces to use, and organization has demonstrated willingness to win now. Some combination of our parts should get it done.
Garza has one of the best fastballs in NL and would fit in great at Coors.
It is very possible to get one more pitcher without mortgaging future.
by purplerowtroller on Jan 22, 2012 12:51 PM MST up reply actions
Every pitcher you just mentioned > Jurrjens
I maintain that any team that deals for Jurrjens is going to regret it deeply. I’d like Floyd but it’ll take one of Arenado and Rosario plus an Alex White type pitcher. Not thanks.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
i'm not so sure they'd ask for rosario
they have their own catching prospect in tyler flowers, but it would definitely take white and more
Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort
JJ was Cy Young candidate last year... even if he's a 2 or 3 in our rotation, he's better than White and Matzek by quite a bit...
by purplerowtroller on Jan 22, 2012 12:54 PM MST up reply actions
built by luck
he’s not a cy young caliber true-talent pitcher
Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort
Jurrjens is like a rich man's Moscoso
All ERA, no peripheral stats to back it up, and injury prone to boot. His strikeout drop and 43 starts over the past 2 years are gigantic red flags to me.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
i dunno, that 89 MPH fastball is pretty sexy
Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort
I find the fact that Moscoso's and Jurrjen's BB/K rate are nearly equal
very, very attractive.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
I'd still take two Moscosos over white/chatwood combo...
But fine, let’s get Garza or Niese then.
by purplerowtroller on Jan 22, 2012 1:04 PM MST up reply actions
.....Except Chatwood and White's upside is higher than Moscoso
I want to trade Moscoso the same reason the Braves want to trade Jurrjens; his value is highest now.
Chatwood won’t be in the rotation next year unless injuries happens, and he was rushed anyways. You didn’t see the true Alex White last year because he was pitching injured.
I really want one of Floyd or Garza, as much as you do probably, but it’s going to hurt the 2013 MLB club and beyond if we do. I think if you can get Floyd for Moscoso, Cabrera, and Wheeler you do it, but they’re really searching for that impact piece like Arenado (or Jesus Montero in the Yankees case when they tried for Floyd) that we shouldn’t give up.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
Depending on the outcome of the Fielder sweepstakes,
I think the cubs may be eager to stockpile young arms in exchange for Garza. I would trade some of our upside for him.
Say we trade Chatwood and White.
Our rotation is still filled with young arms (Chacin, Nicasio and Pom are all babies), and the others get older (i.e. JDLR, Garza) we’d still have guys like Bettis coming up.
I’d move mountains to have this 2012 rotation:
Garza (yes, I think he’d be our number 1 until JDLR returns)
Chacin
Pom
Hammel
Moscoso
(Nicasio)
by purplerowtroller on Jan 22, 2012 1:22 PM MST up reply actions
I don't think Floyd is really available
Watch out for the Rangers though. Some enterprising team might be able to scarf themselves up a Matt Harrison or an Alexi Ogando if they offer the right combo. Unfortunately, the Rangers have lots of minor league pitching so we might not match. It would take Wheeler or Rutledge.
by BostonTransplant on Jan 22, 2012 1:22 PM MST up reply actions
I liked Ogando
but later on he was not dependable at all. Matt Harrison would be very intriguing. I think with scoot we can package many ML ready players now and 2 pitchers. Like Chatwood and Moscoso and Nelson/EY/Herrerra for one guy.
Staring out the window, waiting for spring.
Yeah that wouldn't sound that good to a team like the Rangers
Who are in win-now mode. More than likely none of those guys would even make their 25. Another guy they might be interested in, though, would be Belisle. He’d be a very nice fit for them. Him and, oh I dunno, a good single A infielder … that’s what I could envision.
by BostonTransplant on Jan 22, 2012 2:17 PM MST up reply actions
In Ogando's defense
He was a reliever suddenly turned starter. One could reason that he was due to have some fatigue down the stretch as his innings accumulated beyond what his body was adjusted for.
I think I have agreed with you in the past
I’d do a Wheeler based deal for a Harrison or Ogando.
I think Floyd is available. I just think he is going to be priced beyond his worth.
which rotation is better?
Chacin
JJ (IMO Garza would be better)
Pom
Hammel
Moscoso
or
Chacin
Pom
Hammel
White/Chatwood/outman
Moscosco
*both subject to change when Nicasio and JDLR return
There is no question, I’ll take the first. And we have so many pieces that will go to waste without such a trade.
I think we will make such a move (renewed confidence in DOD) and I think it would be a great one!
by purplerowtroller on Jan 22, 2012 1:02 PM MST up reply actions
I'll take the bet where Nicasio is in the opening day rotation
You absolutely take the first, because Jurrjens true talent wise is a number 3 pitcher, which is, yes, an upgrade for us. However the Braves are valuing him like an ace. We would overpay for Jurrjens and completely regret it. Don’t be fooled by ERA: Jurrjens is good, but he’s not some definite ace. He’s an injury prone 3 starter who is available because the Braves know his value is going to be highest now, and because they know pitchers like Teheran and Delgado can out pitch Jurrjens.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
I think we can afford to overpay
If not for JJ than for Floyd, Garza, or Niese
(I also really like Ogando or Harrison if they were available)
by purplerowtroller on Jan 22, 2012 1:24 PM MST up reply actions
If we don't trade for upgrade at pitcher...
what happens to our logjam of young arms?
A few will have to be left behind. I say get value for them now. I think we will; that seems to be the offseason plan. Young pitchers are the best kind of currency, because everyone focuses so much on the upside.
We have a surplus of upside.
by purplerowtroller on Jan 22, 2012 1:27 PM MST up reply actions
I agree...
Look at what it took to get Scutaro.
by purplerowtroller on Jan 22, 2012 12:55 PM MST up reply actions
it might have more to do with salary than players
by purplerowtroller on Jan 22, 2012 12:55 PM MST up reply actions
with kenny williams, though
you just never know
Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort
I'm basing this on what Quentin got them in return
Which wasn’t a lot. Floyd can probably get a better return, but probably not much considering the still large amount of pitching available on the market. Maybe Hammel, one of our middle infielders, and a solid prospect or two.
Of course, the other problem with Floyd is $$$
Same with Garza. I’d say they’re both non-starters at this point, unless we trade Helton or something.
by BostonTransplant on Jan 22, 2012 1:27 PM MST up reply actions
We could move Hammel
that would give us some more cap space, and free up a spot for Nicasio should he return soon.
Garza/Floyd
Chacin
Pom
Moscoso
Nicasio
JDLR
by purplerowtroller on Jan 22, 2012 1:30 PM MST up reply actions
Yep
Floyd is particular. He is set to make 7 million this year, while Hammel will make 4.75 million. I think we could squeeze in the extra 2.25 million.
The team would much more inclined to take a long look at Arenado then, right?
That would make it an extra 250,000 if Blake did not make the roster, though I assume he’ll make it if he’s healthy
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
Well,
as I mentioned yesterday, there is still moveable salary on this team. Hammel being the key if they were to go after a more expensive starter.
Yes
Hammel + 2 or three $400,000 players would make it closer to $1 million to squeeze. Very doable considering the jostling the FO did at the beginning of the off season.
Again, I think such a move is LIKELY to happen, which is great because I think adds at least another 2 or 3 wins, which may put us over the hump in the NL West.
by purplerowtroller on Jan 22, 2012 1:39 PM MST up reply actions
I wouldn't go as far as "likely"
But it seems within the realm of possible. They would still have to be willing to trade prospects.
I'm willing to bet...
Chipotle Burrito says we get an upgrade at pitcher before off season is over…
by purplerowtroller on Jan 22, 2012 1:54 PM MST up reply actions
after clearing $$ for Scutaro
do the Rockies have enough money to make a play for any experienced pitcher? We’re not trading any of our starters and we’d have to trade 4-5 reserves to make space.
Staring out the window, waiting for spring.
that's what i thought
Staring out the window, waiting for spring.
Things might change in July....
If Rockies are in contention for playoffs, and reasonable offer shows up. Playoffs means more cash, of course, so owners may go for it.
If so, they wouldn’t be looking for “any experienced” pitcher, but someone with decent credentials, which would cost a several million presumably.
It depends on where you think the budget is
They are still projected to go into the season 5 million below where they were last year.
that's what makes earlier off season moves so brilliant.
it was all part of a calculated plan. we got space and currency (young arms)
by purplerowtroller on Jan 22, 2012 1:56 PM MST up reply actions
so we added about 5 WAR over last season at 2b and 3b between Scutaro and Blake. I’m a fan. With those positions set, 2012 is going to be about watching the rotation and Arenado improve.
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and trading for one more pitcher.
how many additional wins would garza/jj/floyd/niese give us. I guess 2 or 3. I think we’d be division favorites.
by purplerowtroller on Jan 22, 2012 12:56 PM MST up reply actions
I’m not sure it’s really needed at this point – we should be able to get the 2-3 wins in 2012 or2013 from an emergence of White or Pom plus recoveries by JDLR and Nicasio
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
PRMLB: The Brew Crew
Also, I don’t hear anyone lamenting how we didn’t sign VMart last offseason. Looks like we dodged a bullet given how crappy our season was last year and his recent injury…
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
PRMLB: The Brew Crew
that'd be an interesting thing to project out
no MYoung means no Cuddyer or Blake this offseason probably. or Blake but no Scutaro
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by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 22, 2012 3:02 PM MST via Android app up reply actions
he tore his ACL while running, right?
not like that was something anyone saw coming…
Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort
Yes
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"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
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by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 22, 2012 1:04 PM MST up reply actions
Love the move. We definitely improved our offense and didn't give up much in defense to do it
I voted “no” in the poll. We still need pitching to be competitive in this division. The thing is, we might have some quality pitchers already on the roster. We do need a couple of the 10-15 to improve this year, but that’s quite realistically possible. Last year, the big question marks were Stewart, Smith, and Iannetta and it didn’t work out. This year, the big question mark is our young starting pitching. This was a far better offseason than I would have dreamed possible though.
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I don't get it
but Welcome to PR
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Millwood to the Mariners
I’m happy he has his job. He really came through for us last year.
Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton
Good landing spot for him
But it’s a minor league deal so it does look like he played his cards wrong (assuming the Rockies offered him a guaranteed deal).
I don't think we did.
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by CentralCaliRox on Jan 22, 2012 7:25 PM MST up reply actions
Renck said on Twitter that we offered him one during the Winter Meetings, at least.
Excellent negotiating, Kevin.
Whatever the truth is, we don't want/need him anymore
At this point, he’d just be getting in the way. If we can get a legit TOR or MOR arm with 3-4 years left in him (or Oswalt) I’m hip to that. Anything else would do more harm than good.
by BostonTransplant on Jan 22, 2012 8:58 PM MST up reply actions
Hmmm I don't know about that
there’s always room for a cheap, established veteran with good control, good K/BB ration, and a decent groundball rate. Especially when there’s only about 1.5 solid starters in your rotation.
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Saw that
very sad ending for him and his family
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"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
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He couldn't survive without football.
It was his life support.
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lung cancer may also have been a factor...
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
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by Junction Rox on Jan 22, 2012 8:03 PM MST up reply actions
Well, yeah, but I agree with Charlie to some extent.
It’s entirely possible that without football, plus the events of the last few months, he didn’t have it in him to fight as hard. I know another person who died only a month after being released from a position of major responsibility (and his health wasn’t the major factor behind him being released). His wife and family acknowledged that without that thing, it was time to go.
by holly96 on Jan 22, 2012 8:12 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
That's absolutely possible
I’m just not crazy about the idea that somehow JoePa was killed by the handling of the Sandusky situation.
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Jan 22, 2012 8:16 PM MST up reply actions
No, I don't think that.
I think a huge part lack of football (would have been the same had he retired under different circumstances), another part stress.
That is a possibility
Charlie’s post just reminded me of a lot of comments I’ve heard today that JoePa died of a broken heart or some such (although Charlie certainly didn’t go that far…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
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by Junction Rox on Jan 22, 2012 8:27 PM MST up reply actions
For the last few years
I’ve figured that JoePa was a goner once he wasn’t coaching Penn State anymore. Just like Bear Bryant.
Jason Giambi for player-manager in 2012!
How the world will end in 2012: George of the Roses builds a Machine that Pommels everyone with La Violencia during Whiteouts.
Suck it Keith Law!
The Rockies improved their talent floor this offseason without sacrificing their farm. The chances of a 2011 regression was eliminated by O’Dowd by acquiring established veterans and meanwhile if Bettis/Pomz/White/Edwar make a dramatic improvement in 2012 this team will be very special.
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Excited, but age is our enemy...
With five of our projected starting eight being age 33 or higher, I am concerned that we may not be healthy or young enough to actually field that starting eight more than 40 to 50 times next season.
Take Scutaro, for example. In the past two seasons, he has dealt with an injured knee, a sore elbow that required a cortisone shot, a pinched nerve in his neck, which will be a chronic issue for him the rest of his life, a partially torn rotator cuff in his throwing shoulder, an oblique strain that caused him to miss a month on the DL last May, back spasms and stiffness in August, and yes he’s a gamer and plays hurt. Still, we know Helton’s back risks, Blake’s neck problems last year, Hernandez not being an everyday catcher anymore, and even Cuddyer required knee surgery a couple years ago.
This, to me, calls for a better bench than we have assembled to date. These older veterans need protection with decent backups if we are going to contend. Even Cargo and Tulo are no cinch to be healthy all season, as we have learned the past season.
Meh. No one's 100% healthy unless they're 21 years old.
An orthopedic surgeon (and big time Rox fan) I know, same guy who told me last Fall to expect Nicasio to be fine in time for ST, once told me that every big league pitcher over the age of 25 has tendons and ligaments in his arm that are shredded (at least compared to normal people his age). If they’ve made it to their mid 30’s, these guys know how to prepare and go out and play. I don’t think any of them are unusual risks to have a wash-out season.
by BostonTransplant on Jan 22, 2012 7:19 PM MST up reply actions
You can't look at it that way
All professional ballplayers know how to prepare their body for games, though perhaps some better than others. But you can’t deny that 35+ year olds have much greater risk for injury than twentysomethings simply because of the wear and tear that they’ve accumulated with all that time playing baseball.
Todd Helton, for one, has more or less said himself that he needs a good deal of time off for the health of his back to be able to continue contributing positively around the end of the season. I’d imagine it’s the same for guys like Scutaro or Blake, the latter of whom probably fell into the Rockies’ laps only because of health concerns. Health is definitely a huge question mark for these guys; it can’t be so easily dismissed.
(By the way, I feel like we disagree on a lot — just want to let you know that I’m not picking on you or anything haha)
In theory, yes, the older you get the higher your risk
But in another way it’s also true that the longer you can stay healthy playing sports at an elite level, the LESS likely you are to get hurt in any given season. You’ve proven that you have good genes and prepare well. There’s a selection of sorts going on.
I will give you Helton. But that’s a specific injury the other guys don’t have, and that’s why we have Giambino (and Cuddyer, and Pacheco …)
by BostonTransplant on Jan 22, 2012 9:02 PM MST up reply actions
Most of these guys are just placeholders..
Blake will still be backed up by Chris Nelson, with Arenado waiting in the wings and Scutaro will be backed up by Herrera/Nelson with Rutledge/Field sitting at AA/AAA. Even Cuddyer has Blackmon backing him up and Tim Wheeler and Kent Matthes waiting for their shot.
A year ago very few people expected Blackmon and Nicasio to be in the majors this year. There’s always young guys who make major strides in their development and shoulder their way into the majors. The older players are just insurance until it happens so we don’t have to rely on Jonny Herrera and EY2 as starters like last year.
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There's also Pacheco
Who can catch and play both corner infield spots.
Jason Giambi for player-manager in 2012!
How the world will end in 2012: George of the Roses builds a Machine that Pommels everyone with La Violencia during Whiteouts.
I'm interested to see how Pacheco and Blackmon fit into the 2012 team..
they’re both high contact, low ceiling guys who provide a lot of defensive flexibility.
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They'd both be on my dream bench.
I love what they bring to the party.
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"...buffalo chicken is a fine anti-depressant, after all." -UZ
"... One order of buffalo wings, please..." -Yokel, after July 30, 2011
If Pacheco's and Blackmon's ceilings are low
Nelson’s, EY’s, Colvin’s, and a bunch of others are microscopic. Not sure how certain guys develop these reputations that then stick with them forever, such as “Nelson was a high first rounder, he’s talented!”, versus “Blackmon was just some dude or somehow managed to rake everywhere he’s played, but he’s still low ceiling.” Never made sense to me, but I think real live GM’s fall for them too.
by BostonTransplant on Jan 22, 2012 9:07 PM MST up reply actions
well Scutaro is kind of a best case scenario for Nelson now
through age 27 Scutaro had a .290/.370/.433 line fueled be three years of being old for AAA Chris Nelson doesn’t have his patience but his .281/.345/.447 line is pretty good and he is two years younger than Scoots was when he broke through.
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
and second base
how in the world did you forget he plays second base? I mean come on man
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
JFK
Well, I think our bench is a weak link as of right now...
given that I don’t consider Nelson, Herrera, or even DJLM as replacement level subs for either Scutaro or Blake, should one of them go down. Nor do I think Arenado or Ruttledge are ready to be called up and produce, should the need arise. I also am concerned about who our 5th OF will be as we should have two capable OFs on the bench, not just one. EY2 does not qualify as capable, IMO.
In short, we still need to strengthen our bench a bit. We also should sign one more reliever such as Lidge. And it would be key if we could still do a deal for a #2/3 innings eating starter.
Lots of holes left to fill.
Nelson won't be on this team
I will bet anyone (almost) anything on that.
by BostonTransplant on Jan 22, 2012 9:04 PM MST up reply actions
EY's got a shot, I think, for one reason only
Pinch-running. And the fact we have Helton and Giambi playing everyday.
by BostonTransplant on Jan 22, 2012 9:08 PM MST up reply actions
You may be seeing some Helton rest days with Cuddyer at first and the fourth outfielder in right.
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by Greg Stanwood on Jan 22, 2012 9:09 PM MST up reply actions
I just don't see how that 4th OF is Young
unless all of the other OF are terrible in the spring.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Jan 22, 2012 9:12 PM MST up reply actions
It won't be. Young makes the team as #13 or nothing.
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by Greg Stanwood on Jan 22, 2012 9:12 PM MST up reply actions
That can't really happen either
as we can’t carry 5 OF and the FO doesn’t trust him at 2B. Bringing me back to the fact that EY has no chance to be on this team short of a disastrous performance by all OF.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Jan 22, 2012 9:15 PM MST up reply actions
We can carry a fifth outfielder.
I explained how in my breakdown below.
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by Greg Stanwood on Jan 22, 2012 9:15 PM MST up reply actions
I was going to respond to that,
but I got lost up here. I don’t really see your scenario as viable. They’re not going to go with just one IF on the bench with three starters over 35. I just can’t see that happening.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Jan 22, 2012 9:21 PM MST up reply actions
That scenario is one of three I pointed out.
Point being, until the roster is the roster, I keep things scaled as far back as possible rather than advancing them as far as possible. People tend to get confused as to why I do that. I’m not sure why, as it seems the only reasonable outlook at this point to me.
So from my perspective, it doesn’t matter how “viable” the situation appears based upon a hypothetical like an old infield. I’m not advocating that #13 will BE an outfielder. Just so long as it is clear that it CAN happen, as opposed to where you said it cannot.
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by Greg Stanwood on Jan 22, 2012 9:23 PM MST up reply actions
We could also carry 13 pitchers instead of 12.
That CAN happen too.
Obviously, for RockiesRoster and record keeping purposes, the roster is not set. Nevertheless, the Rockies carrying only one backup IF is highly unlikely.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Jan 22, 2012 9:28 PM MST up reply actions
In some way #13 is going to have to come down
to some kind of flexibility, I think. With 2 C’s and 2 1B’s, plus 4 OF’s and Scutaro, Tulo and Blake (or another 3B), it only leaves 2 roster spots to back up 2B, SS, 3B and provide some kind of 5th OF contingency. Scutaro can back up SS, but that makes the 2B backup more important. There’s going to be a need for a backup IF who can play OF, or somebody who can back up 2B and 3B or otherwise can fill more than one hole…
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by Junction Rox on Jan 22, 2012 9:39 PM MST up reply actions
If we had an 11-man pitching staff, yes...
But we carry 12 pitchers, so only 5 bench positions to allocate. This makes the use of one of them for a designated pinch runner a luxury we can’t afford, as it creates other holes.
Because I think too much about these things...
or maybe because i’ve just watched too much Tracyball, but I got to wondering today who might be able to take on the “5th OF” role if we go with just 4 regular outfielders as most of us seem to be projecting at this point.
Let’s say we PH Blackmon, then one of the starting OFs goes down with an injury. If the rest of the position players on the roster are Hernandez, Rosario, Helton, Giambi, Scutaro, Tulo, Blake, Pacheco and Nelson/Herrera/DJ, who gets to finish out the game in the OF? I assume Pacheco or the 2B backup, but I don’t know if any of them have any experience out there…
Obviously it would only be for the rest of that game until they could bring somebody in, but it did occur to me that in the magical mind of Jim Tracy this could become EY2’s best shot at making the roster….
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roy oswalt
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by papality on Jan 22, 2012 8:41 PM MST up reply actions 3 recs
Rec'd
Just another reason we MUST sign him!
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by Junction Rox on Jan 22, 2012 8:48 PM MST up reply actions
We've got a better chance of signing Roy Halladay...
Jason Giambi for player-manager in 2012!
How the world will end in 2012: George of the Roses builds a Machine that Pommels everyone with La Violencia during Whiteouts.
by free7694 on Jan 22, 2012 8:50 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
well
considering oswalt is a free agent at a respectable price coming off a down year, and halladay well, isn’t a free agent, i’d say that’s not quite right…
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Oh, I was using hyperbole
Geez, people…
Jason Giambi for player-manager in 2012!
How the world will end in 2012: George of the Roses builds a Machine that Pommels everyone with La Violencia during Whiteouts.
Don't argue with papality after 8PM MST.
He’s probably drunk.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Jan 22, 2012 8:55 PM MST up reply actions
whoa.....that's
not right.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
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by SDcat09 on Jan 22, 2012 8:56 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
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by DumbAndNerdy on Jan 22, 2012 8:58 PM MST up reply actions
1:47 AM EST
Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort
I was off by a few hours.
I retract my statement.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Jan 22, 2012 9:03 PM MST up reply actions
SSS much
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Well, that's not the first time he's mentioned such a thing,
but it was a joke.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Jan 22, 2012 9:03 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
it's a sunday, dude
give me a little credit here
Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort
I wish I'd known that
before I ordered my Halladay Rockies jersey…
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In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Jan 22, 2012 9:17 PM MST up reply actions
waitaminute.....
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
I ended up just keeping my Alan Johnson jersey.
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 22, 2012 9:34 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
We should talk trade...
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by Junction Rox on Jan 22, 2012 9:40 PM MST up reply actions
I'm going to have to give up my Omar Quintanilla signed baseball, aren't I?
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 22, 2012 9:42 PM MST up reply actions
That's obviously going to have to be part of it
and I’m afraid I’ll have to insist on the Ryan Shealy rookie card too…
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by Junction Rox on Jan 22, 2012 9:57 PM MST up reply actions
Which one?
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
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JFK
all of them
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One of each?
I think I can handle that
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
JFK
Are they signed?
I’ll need them to be signed…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
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by Junction Rox on Jan 22, 2012 10:07 PM MST up reply actions
None signed (that I can think of right now)
Sorry
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
JFK
As long as I can keep Cory Sullivan's WS jersey
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 22, 2012 9:59 PM MST up reply actions
I've already got one
since jrockies can’t produce the signed Shealy cards, if you can come up with a Mark Redman game worn cap I think we can get this deal done right now…
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by Junction Rox on Jan 22, 2012 10:10 PM MST up reply actions
I have Valerio De Los Santos' spikes.
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 22, 2012 10:16 PM MST up reply actions
Tempting....
You don’t see those every day.
Would you be willing to throw in Steve Finley’s metamucil mixer?
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by Junction Rox on Jan 22, 2012 10:18 PM MST up reply actions
Larry Bigbie's seed bag?
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 22, 2012 10:23 PM MST up reply actions
Sold!
I have a taker in Boston who says he really wants it…
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by Junction Rox on Jan 22, 2012 10:25 PM MST up reply actions
will he pay in Cash?
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 22, 2012 10:28 PM MST up reply actions
I've been promised some Kelly Shoppach memorabilia...
It’s a great deal. Really…
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by Junction Rox on Jan 22, 2012 10:33 PM MST up reply actions
I thought Kevin Cash was part of the trade. hmmm
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 22, 2012 10:38 PM MST up reply actions
You need to have a Stern talk with whoever told you that...
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by Junction Rox on Jan 22, 2012 10:41 PM MST up reply actions
Hold on
I’ve got an autographed Chris Frey rookie card, that has to count for something
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
JFK
i would love to see that at a game
Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort
It's what we do with that 13th position player spot that's really up in the air.
Right now, our starting eight are basically decided. Blake/Arenado is up in the air, but due to the non-guaranteed nature of Blake’s contract, it’s extremely unlikely both end up with roster spots.
Jason Giambi is the only benchman guaranteed a spot at this point (I know everyone likes to jump the gun and put Pacheco/Blackmon/whomever in there, but it’s not set in stone yet guys).
After those things are realized, we know basically what we need in the remaining four bench spots is at least one backup catcher, at least one outfielder that can play all three positions, and while Scutaro moving to SS + Cuddyer moving to 2B could theoretically cover an absent Tuliwotzki, they’re probably going to want at least one infielder than can play third base and then at least one of second and short.
Backup catcher spot right now is between Rosario and the leftovers, Pacheco is not being considered for a straight backup catcher role. Pacheco is a decent fit for the infield slot, especially if they’re willing to let him play second base when Tulowitzki sits and Scutaro shifts over, precluding the silliness of putting Cuddyer there. Then we have a pure outfield spot which at this point is shaping up to be between Blackmon/Colvin with Hoffmann as a dark horse righty on a lefty heavy bench (all three of them can play all three OF positions, so that doesn’t need to be taken into consideration). Assuming that’s the direction we head in, that 13th spot can be open to either a fifth outfielder or a more traditional infielder if Pacheco is indeed occupying that spot already.
So it breaks down thus: with Giambi, a catcher entirely separate from the other categories and at least one versatile outfielder, the question marks are that is done for the infield spot and spot #13. Thanks to Scutaro, all spots are covered with Pacheco on the bench if they’re okay with him at second. If he does but they’re NOT, spot #13 probably goes to Nelson or another infielder that can cover shortstop on their own, or at least play second base better. If they decide to skip over Pacheco or they are comfortable with him as the main infield switchman, spot #13 opens to EY2 or possibly another outfield candidate.
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by Greg Stanwood on Jan 22, 2012 9:04 PM MST up reply actions
Tuliwotski! Haha.
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by Greg Stanwood on Jan 22, 2012 9:05 PM MST up reply actions
G-wood delivers
nice post
The Big Purple Machine will make a believer outta you!
by El Paso Jeff on Jan 22, 2012 10:39 PM MST up reply actions
OT: Fooseball
I’m rooting for the meteor.
Altar Boy in the Church of Santo Ubaldo
"...buffalo chicken is a fine anti-depressant, after all." -UZ
"... One order of buffalo wings, please..." -Yokel, after July 30, 2011
If you're talking the SB matchup
I completely agree. Yawn. (But whoever is carrying the tiresome event must be delirious with Boston/NY matchupz.)
Waiting for spring.
So boring! I felt bad for the Niners.
I guess I’ll root for the Patriots…..
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
I'm with Yokel
I’ll root for the meteor, while finding something else to do with that 4 hour span.
Waiting for spring.
by rockhead on Jan 22, 2012 9:02 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Puppy Bowl.
Altar Boy in the Church of Santo Ubaldo
"...buffalo chicken is a fine anti-depressant, after all." -UZ
"... One order of buffalo wings, please..." -Yokel, after July 30, 2011
by Yokel on Jan 22, 2012 9:10 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
they're just so darn cute, though
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If I wanted to watch dogs play football
I would have watched the Rams all season…
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by Junction Rox on Jan 22, 2012 10:42 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Go Giants!!
Anybody but the Boston Bellicheats…
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by Junction Rox on Jan 22, 2012 8:48 PM MST up reply actions
I hate that the universe made me choose between three of the four most annoying
fanbases in football for these games swap Pittsburgh for Baltimore and you are 4 for 4
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Dallas would be in there somewhere
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
JFK
Don''t forget Green Bay
Jason Giambi for player-manager in 2012!
How the world will end in 2012: George of the Roses builds a Machine that Pommels everyone with La Violencia during Whiteouts.
fair enough GB and the Raiders probably get HM
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
You haven't met a Ravens fan, have you?
And really, the Patriots might be annoying, but no one really cares about them.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Jan 22, 2012 9:02 PM MST up reply actions
Boston area fans are among the most annoying anywhere and recent success has
made them unbearable
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
by TomCat009 on Jan 22, 2012 9:04 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Just use this...
In the last four years….
1) The Patriots blew a four point lead in the Superbowl in the last two minutes and lost their perfect season.
2) The Celtics blew an 11 point lead in the second half of Game 7 of the NBA finals and by the looks of it are heading into the toilet.
3) The Bruins blew a 3-0 series lead in round two of the 2010 playoffs that included blowing a 3-0 lead within game 7.
4) The Red Sox had what may have been the biggest September collapse MLB history to miss the postseason last Fall going 7-20 after the team was on pace to win 100 games.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 22, 2012 9:50 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Rec. :D
MOYER IS OUR SAVIOR
@DylanZable
by CentralCaliRox on Jan 22, 2012 10:01 PM MST up reply actions
In the NCAA hockey tournament last year...
Boston College was a #1 seed and destroyed by Colorado College in the first round.
I believe.
by Lost Winter on Jan 22, 2012 10:32 PM MST up reply actions
ugh, one of my best friends is a ravens fan
he didn’t shut up about ray rice all year, i’m so happy they lost
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They also have a paranoia complex.
They lose every game because the league hates them and the referees are against them. That’s what annoys me the most.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Jan 22, 2012 9:07 PM MST up reply actions
Rockies FanFest was incredable
I’d highly recommend for anyone next year.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 22, 2012 9:52 PM MST reply actions
Wait wait wait. You were in Denver???
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
No kidding
What is going on and did anyone else here know this?
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
JFK
Yep
Love the city. I think I want to live here.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 22, 2012 9:58 PM MST up reply actions
Get in line behind Russ
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
JFK
Russ needs to hurry up then
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 22, 2012 10:02 PM MST up reply actions
Maybe you two could be roomies...
one from New England, the other from New York. Throw in a talking dog and I see a sitcom brewing…
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by Junction Rox on Jan 22, 2012 10:11 PM MST up reply actions
This dog?
http://www.purplerow.com/2011/12/25/2661170/off-season-picture-time#88910869
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by DumbAndNerdy on Jan 22, 2012 10:13 PM MST up reply actions
perfect!
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by Junction Rox on Jan 22, 2012 10:16 PM MST up reply actions
Is there a part where they dress up as women?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOKNgNFeC4s&feature=related
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by DumbAndNerdy on Jan 22, 2012 10:18 PM MST up reply actions
Is there a part where they don't?
Half the hijinks will ensue from Russ’ wacky efforts to keep people from finding out about his Rox Girl identity…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Jan 22, 2012 10:19 PM MST up reply actions
Great.
Then after the show one of them becomes a bajillionaire Oscar winner and the other has bit parts in a string of sitcoms.
The question is: Who wins the Oscar?
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com
Leading the Astros into the Future. Go, Go Astros!
by DumbAndNerdy on Jan 22, 2012 10:21 PM MST up reply actions
The dog....
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Jan 22, 2012 10:25 PM MST up reply actions
keith hernandez
Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsdj9NRzqC4
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com
Leading the Astros into the Future. Go, Go Astros!
by DumbAndNerdy on Jan 22, 2012 10:02 PM MST up reply actions
Details bud.
MOYER IS OUR SAVIOR
@DylanZable
by CentralCaliRox on Jan 22, 2012 10:01 PM MST up reply actions
Just amazing access
Getting to ask the players questions in stage sessions, autographs, access to the owners suite, acess to the clubhouse, weightroom, and the humidor. Getting to try on game worn player jerseys, and just seeing part of Coors Field upstairs that you usually would be able to.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 22, 2012 10:05 PM MST up reply actions
Wow that's incredible.
I will go one day.
MOYER IS OUR SAVIOR
@DylanZable
by CentralCaliRox on Jan 22, 2012 10:09 PM MST up reply actions
Here's some other stuff.
Coors from the outside…

Stage Sessions….
(Helton, Blackmon, Giambi, and Cuddyer)

(Colvin, LeMahieu, Fowler, Cargo, Tulo) By the way, the players are wearing the new road uniforms here.

Rockies history on the Club level. There was so much here that I couldn’t possibly post all the display cases but here’s a few of my favorites….



View from the owner’s suite.

Here’s the ball that Dex signed.

Here’s a bunch of game worn attire (with the exception of Cuddyer who wore that jersey at one of the press conferences after signing)

Tulo’s cleats

Helton’s table.

Me wearing the Tulo game worn jersey.

Cargo’s locker.

Tulo’s locker.

The whole thing was just an outstanding experience.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 23, 2012 12:08 AM MST up reply actions 3 recs
That's so awesome!!
(You shoulda put these in a fanpost..still should…)
But holy crap, I’m so jealous!
I'M SORRY I WAS EVER MAD AT YOU, ROCKIES! COME BACK TO ME! I LOVE YOU!!
by prettyinpurple on Jan 23, 2012 1:01 AM MST up reply actions
Giambi looks like a 24 year old kid
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 23, 2012 6:26 AM MST up reply actions
what a heck of player development program
Isn’t just dandy (no pun intended) that the organization of the year in 2007 has gone in the crapper. Now the club has to trade for players because of bad top round drafts and because a guy named Gievett who oversees the development of players is too busy eating or looking for his ball on the 7th green.
Keep grinding that axe, homie...
Jason Giambi for player-manager in 2012!
How the world will end in 2012: George of the Roses builds a Machine that Pommels everyone with La Violencia during Whiteouts.
Man, you are really harping on Gievett.
This is at least the 3rd comment I’ve seen along these same lines in the last few days.
Does anyone know if Geivett has an ex-wife?
Maybe one named Irene?
Jason Giambi for player-manager in 2012!
How the world will end in 2012: George of the Roses builds a Machine that Pommels everyone with La Violencia during Whiteouts.
Who is Bill Gievett?
This is either an ex-player or (more likely) an ex-player’s parent who feels that they (or their kid) was done wrong in their time as an organizational soldier.
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
by Franchise26 on Jan 22, 2012 10:39 PM MST up reply actions
Or someone Geivett fired
Jason Giambi for player-manager in 2012!
How the world will end in 2012: George of the Roses builds a Machine that Pommels everyone with La Violencia during Whiteouts.
or his neighbor
and geivett turns the sprinklers on too early
Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort
or maybe it's a girl that liked geivett
and was consistently spurned in her advances
Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort
Or Geivett himself,
and he has some self-esteem issues.
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com
Leading the Astros into the Future. Go, Go Astros!
by DumbAndNerdy on Jan 22, 2012 10:41 PM MST up reply actions
he HAS posted on here
Purple Row - For all of your Colorado Rockies-related needs
Learn about Batting Metrics
Learn about Pitching Metrics
PRMLB Marlins
by Andrew Martin on Jan 22, 2012 10:43 PM MST up reply actions
Great articles and
Q&A sessions too when he does drop in
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
JFK
boy wouldn't that be a turn of events
Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort
if this is true, I totally understand the hatred
I have this situation and have a lovely mushroom and mosquito infestation in my yard come spring and all summer
Stop Irresponsible Watering Practices
The Big Purple Machine will make a believer outta you!
by El Paso Jeff on Jan 22, 2012 10:44 PM MST up reply actions
Not to make the guy's case for him, but this response in a Q&A does seem a little off
Randy Porter (via Facebook): Say the Rockies make it to the playoffs and have to play the Phillies. How is the Rocks pitching staff going to match theirs?
@Rockies: Our team has to match up with their team, it’s not a battle of pitching staffs.
He’s right, it won’t be a battle of pitching staffs because if you go into playoff games at CBP with a weak pitching staff, you’re going to get smoked.
we walked right through them in 07
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
they also were not a legitimate playoff team in 2007
Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort
hey
eating is really important
Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort
I know, right?
I mean if you don’t eat, you, well, die.
Jason Giambi for player-manager in 2012!
How the world will end in 2012: George of the Roses builds a Machine that Pommels everyone with La Violencia during Whiteouts.
Are you sure about that?
I thought the jury was still out on food.
by Shoemaker on Jan 22, 2012 10:33 PM MST via Android app up reply actions

"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
by Franchise26 on Jan 22, 2012 10:31 PM MST up reply actions
I really want to see the gif of Eli trying to call a timeout, then hitting his face, and then making the spiking motion
while flailing his legs in the air right before half time.
I'm just trying to figure out what the pun is with dandy.
Is Gievett a dandy? If he eats so much, I’d think that he probably isn’t. You don’t usually associate dandyism with obesity.
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com
Leading the Astros into the Future. Go, Go Astros!
by DumbAndNerdy on Jan 22, 2012 10:33 PM MST up reply actions
OH! And...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2Mii2GOwMA
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com
Leading the Astros into the Future. Go, Go Astros!
by DumbAndNerdy on Jan 22, 2012 10:36 PM MST up reply actions
hm
i wonder if he needs to eat as well…
Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort
Ok. Thanks.
That’s a little clever. You might want to capitalize DANdy. That would have made it clearer. Of course, the rest of the comment wasn’t very clear either, but I would have liked the pun to have been clearer. I like puns.
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com
Leading the Astros into the Future. Go, Go Astros!
by DumbAndNerdy on Jan 22, 2012 10:40 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I love this comment
Because it’s so Petro. In the best way. :)
Die-hard Rockies fan since seven years after Jamie Moyer's MLB debut.
Poo-Bah of the San Diego Padres in the Purple Row OOTP League.
@Paul_Franz
My blerg
I just consulted the Official List of Purple-Row Sanctioned Dan O'Dowd Puns
And, unfortunately, I must report that “DANdy” or any permutations thereof are not permitted.
Might I suggest a few more cutting options, such as:
a) Dan O’Dud
b) Dan O’Clown
c) Dealin’ Dan (could be construed as negative or positive, depending upon the context).
Thank you. We appreciate your compliance.
by Shoemaker on Jan 22, 2012 10:44 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Interesting third hand gossip
my brother told me that a co-worker of his had a sit down conversation with Dealin Dan in October. Said that when he asked about the Ubaldo trade O’Dowd was really candid, said that Ubaldo came to him the week P&C report and said that unless he got an extension in the Cargo/Tulo vein that “he couldn’t guarantee his effort” said that O’Dowd couldn’t wait to trade him at that point.
Obviously all the hearsay caveats apply but it might explain the some of the anger DOD exhibited this year
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
that's very interesting
I wish there were some sort of corroboration
Purple Row - For all of your Colorado Rockies-related needs
Learn about Batting Metrics
Learn about Pitching Metrics
PRMLB Marlins
by Andrew Martin on Jan 22, 2012 10:48 PM MST up reply actions
Huh. I mean, I know we don't personally KNOW any of these players,
but that sure strikes me as very “un-Ubaldo.”
I mean, if it’s true it would explain some things, but I kind of have a hard time believing it.
it struck me that way too
but consider that to these guys money is a big sign of respect too. I don’t know Ubaldo and certainly tended ignore those “makeup problems” reports out of NY. I doubt anyone in our FO would say anything publicly as nobody wants to get the rep as the org that trashes ex players.
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
BTW
This move is officially called “Pulling a Melo”
Jason Giambi for player-manager in 2012!
How the world will end in 2012: George of the Roses builds a Machine that Pommels everyone with La Violencia during Whiteouts.
Except we offered Melo the equivalent of a "Cargo/Tulo" extension
and he turned that down…
(OT: Last night’s game was amazing. Especially awesome to see Melo getting outplayed by Gallo)
I find that incredibly hard to believe...
IIRC, during the swirling trade rumors the Rockies players (Tulo, for one) themselves denied that anything like that had happened
they might not have known, though
we do know that the clubhouse really wasn’t a great environment most of the year
Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort
True
Though unless TC009’s brother’s coworker is O’Dowd’s best friend or something, I’d tend to believe the players…and for that matter, O’Dowd himself, who continued to deny those whining accusations after making the trade.
you may very well be right but again I doubt O'Dowd trashes Ubaldo publically
at least not for a few years
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
"he couldn’t guarantee his effort"
Seems like a phrase that was twisted from its originally form. I don’t doubt the possibility that there was a conversation between DOD and Ubaldo that Dan didn’t like, but I would be shocked if it was something this blatant.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 22, 2012 10:57 PM MST up reply actions
We're hearing it 4th hand, so there's certainly the possibility something got misunderstood or exaggerated somewhere in there.
I definitely got the impression that O'Dowd had a bad taste in his mouth after
that meeting. If ODowd came away with the feeling that Ubaldo wasn’t giving his full effort(a feeling he certainly seem to have about Smith, Iannetta and Stewart) the bad way Ubaldo’s ST and season went would have reinforced his opinion.
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
rather I got the impression that co-worker fealt O'Dowd had a bad taste
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Like I said this is 3rd hand and I could ask him to have the guy write it up
I like Ubaldo and think he will rebound but you have to admit that trade was pretty out of the blue
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Yes and no
Ubaldo’s velo was WAY down last season. At first I thought this was just because he hadn’t built up the proper arm stength yet but it became pretty clear as we rolled into summer that something was up. If Ubaldo never regains the velocity, he’s never going to be anything close to the pitcher he was again. There’s reason to believe Ubaldo’s best years are behind him and DOD was clearly making that bet.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Jan 22, 2012 11:26 PM MST up reply actions
Maybe
pitchers rarely regain velo in season Verlander had a similar drop a few years back. Let’s see how he pitches this year before we officially say that ship has sailed
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
I think you've misinterpreted his velo drop...
I distinctly remember Ubaldo saying in the spring that he wanted to go deeper in the game, and to do so he would have to improve his fastball command. He wanted to cut down on walks and deep counts, so I think it was partially by design that Ubaldo let up on pitches in this attempt to become more of a control pitcher. It didn’t work, and I suspect he screwed himself up a bit along the way with this attempt to change his style,
I don’t think there’s a physical decline that eliminates that hard-throwing Ubaldo, the one that had the highest average fastball speed in the league for a few seasons before last. If he wants, I think he can get that speed back, but matching his great 2010 in the future will be tough. More likely, he will pitch like he did in 2009 if he has a bounceback season.
I certainly wish we still had Ubaldo for the 2012 season. I root for Pom and White to be studs for us, but Ubaldo was a once in twenty year talent for the organization, and I think we gave up on him too soon.
I remember Ubaldo saying
That his velocity came from his back muscles that because of the injury wasn’t as strong as they should be. I don’t know if velocity will return or not but if it doesn’t Ubaldo looks like an average pitcher.
by 3nS on Jan 23, 2012 12:40 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Or he learns to become a different pitcher
5 pitches at 92-94 is still pretty great
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
hard to say anything is clearly anything
trading the best pitcher in franchise history for prospects is a pretty shocking thing even if you like Pom and White(which I do) the Ubaldo thing was crazy because A. He was the most proven commodity the Rockies had as starter B. He was worth more to the Rockies than any other team(his club option for 2014 voided with the trade C. with Ubaldo, Chacin, Nicasio the Rocks may have been thin but adding back of the rotation starters is hardly the toughest thing for a team to do.
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Gosh, we have an amazing lineup on paper now.
I LOVED the Scutaro trade. Extremely underrated hitter. Now, I’m interested to see how the rotation shakes out. We having definitely stockpiled young talent. Pomeranz, Chacin, Chatwood, White…exciting! I’m soooo ready for this season!
Carlos Gonzalez has an extraordinary tendency to amplify light through stimulated emission of radiation in frequent bursts.
Shoulder-to-Shoulder for life!
I am still in hockey mode, but I seriously cannot wait for the Rox to get going again. Spring training can’t come soon enough! I previously thought we were a bit doomed this year before all of our acquisitions, and man I am glad I am eating my words right now. We just need them to perform, because our offense SHOULD be able to carry us far if all goes as planned. Thank you O’Dowd for proving me wrong, and thank you Monforts for agreeing to this Scutaro deal and also proving me wrong!
Go Avs! Please?



































